1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Hi, This is new because of the coronavirus. I am 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: currently staying at home in Rome, where my wife serves 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: as the United States Ambassador of the Holy See. She's 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: leading the embassy and dealing with all the different changes 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: being brought about by the pandemic. To bring you this 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: episode this week, I'm recording from my home, so you 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: may notice a difference in audio quality on this episode 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: of NETS World. What role did China play in the 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: spread of COVID nineteen globally? What responsibility should they bear 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: for the devastation the virus has cost. I'm devoting a 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: three part series looking at China and the spread of 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. First, I'll look at the origins of the 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 1: virus and the timeline of the virus is spread from 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: Wuhan to other areas of the world, and ask what 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: did the Chinese Communist Party know about the disease and 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: when did they know it? In Part two, I'll look 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: at the role big data and artificial intelligence can play 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: in tracking global pandemics or disease outbreaks anywhere in the world, 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: and make the case for why United States health authorities 20 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: should be using this advanced technology to create an early 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: warning system to hopefully prevent the spread of future pandemics. 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: In Part three, How discussed why China needs to be 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: held accountable for the devastation they have caused, both the 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: loss of lives and financial pain across the world. And 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: please to welcome my guest, Rebecca heinrichs Senior Fellow at 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: the Hudson Institute, where she specializes in nuclear deterrence and 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: missile defense. Miss Heinrich recently wrote five lies China is 28 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: telling about the coronavirus in the Washington Examiner. Rebecca, in 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen timeline, the first person actually contracted that 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: we know of is like mid November. Then it reoccurs 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: in Wuhan about a month later. Is that your understanding. Yes, 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: some of the information that we do have right now 33 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: is information that only makes sense in hindsight. So the 34 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: first reported incidents that we know of in China did 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: occur in November. November seventeenth is when we now know 36 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: there was a fifty five year old resident in China 37 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 1: who did contract the coronavirus. But at the time, obviously 38 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 1: we didn't know the scale of the coronavirus. In hindsight, 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense now that China should 40 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: have been alerning more people, but we didn't know at 41 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: the time, and it started to build, and China obviously 42 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: knew that this thing was bad much earlier than what 43 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: the rest of the world became aware of it in 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: December certainly January absolutely, and that's why you even had 45 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: Jiji and Ping officially take control of China's response of 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: the virus, because they knew how big and how bad 47 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: it was by mid January. Have we resolved yet whether 48 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: it came from a wet market or came from the laboratories, 49 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: We don't know that. It will be very difficult to 50 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: know the origins of the virus without the Chinese government 51 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: completely cooperating with the effort to get to the bottom 52 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: of it. We really need to know where it came from. 53 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: We shouldn't just take the Chinese government's word at face value. 54 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: We need to have more information on this because that 55 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: laboratory is in such close proximity too, where we know 56 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: the outbreak did occur. And one of the things to 57 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: me that was very suspicious about the behavior of the 58 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: Chinese government is by the time you had people from 59 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: the WHO and members of the CDC going into China. 60 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: All of the evidence that would have corroborated China's contention 61 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: that it did come from the wet market had completely disappeared. 62 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: So the wet market was taken down. There was no 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: labs taken from the animals that would show that it 64 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: came from this particular animal. All of that should have 65 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: been kept intact if the Chinese government wanted to prove 66 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: that what it was saying was true. In the absence 67 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: of all of that very valuable data does raise suspicions. 68 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: I think that perhaps it came from an unintentional leak 69 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: from scientific work that was being conducted at that laboratory. 70 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: It's beginning to surface that the US government itself had 71 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: warnings in twenty eighteen that the laboratories simply warm competent, 72 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: and that there was a real danger of leaking. But 73 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: I don't know of any evidence that the virus was 74 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: in any way tampered with. It doesn't strike me that 75 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 1: we know anything angle leaders to beligal was weaponized, whether 76 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: it came out of the Level for Military lab which 77 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: is also in Wuhan. I don't think that anybody is 78 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: making that charge at this point, but it does get 79 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: to I think a very serious concern about the Chinese 80 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: government in that if it wants to be a participant 81 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: in the global economy, She's in Ping made this big 82 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: speech in DeVos in twenty seventeen about its desire to 83 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: be this global leader, and there is a great responsibility 84 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: the more other countries are relying on you, especially as 85 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: they're trying to pitch this belt and Road initiative, And 86 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: so it raises a lot of questions about is the 87 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: Chinese government a reliable partner and is this a country 88 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: that is going to be transparent and responsible and going 89 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: to heed the advice and counsel of other nations pointing 90 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: out flaws and vulnerability in such things as these labs. 91 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: And I would say that this has been a lesson 92 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: for all of these countries that maybe had any doubt 93 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: that the Chinese government is still an authoritarian government and 94 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: is not open to correction, and isn't transparent, and isn't 95 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: granting reciprocity and all of these things that are required 96 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: for any kind of global leadership. They clearly knew by 97 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: early January that they were at a minimum dealing with 98 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: an epidemic. Yet forty thousand people get together for the 99 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: lunar New Year's celebration on January eighteen. Why would the 100 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: Chinese authorities have forty thousand people getting together in Wuhan 101 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: when they already had for several weeks known that they 102 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: were dealing with a rapidly transmitted virus. It does not 103 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: strike you as strange. It does strike me as strange 104 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: the theory it makes the most sense as the Chinese 105 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: Communist Party, the government in Beijing with still desperately trying 106 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: to keep this a secret and trying to play down 107 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: the threat. And that is what you're trying to get 108 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: a handle on. How bad is this thing? We know 109 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: that it's bad, but do we want to draw attention 110 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: to it at this point? Can we so buy ourselves 111 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: some time and trying to handle it? I think that 112 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: that might be what was going on. Obviously, I think 113 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: that that judgment was very unwise. I think that it 114 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: shows a lack of care and concern for the Chinese 115 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: people on the part of the Chinese government. And again, 116 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: if Sijmping was the one leading this effort, that the 117 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: responsibility for that kind of decision making is at that 118 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: very top of the Chinese government. And not only did 119 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: they allow that it's like a giant potleck. You have 120 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: all these Chinese families coming in and sharing meals together. 121 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: Obviously very dangerous. Whenever there's a virus that spreadings, they 122 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: don't know exactly the nature of how bad it is, 123 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: so that was very unwise, very risky. And then whenever 124 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: the Chinese government did it starts to implement very harsh 125 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: quarantine of Wuhan, they had already allowed many many people 126 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: to leave there before the quarantine happened, and of course 127 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: left China's borders and went in to infect all these 128 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: other countries outside China, which also just shows you how 129 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: irresponsible and negligent the Chinese government was to these other countries. 130 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: There are some reports that the Chinese government cut off 131 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: flights from Mohan to the rest of China, but did 132 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: not cut off flights from Mohan to the rest of 133 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: the world. If that's true, I mean, it raises all 134 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: sorts of weird questions. And as you know, I'm talking 135 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: to you from Rome, where we have been basically shut 136 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: down for about eight weeks because there are about one 137 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: hundred thousand Chinese workers in northern Italy. And unlike Trump, 138 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: who stop the flights from China. The Italian government for 139 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: a number of weeks had flights coming in directly from China, 140 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: bringing people who already were infected by the virus, and 141 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: so it got out of control in northern Italy very rapidly. 142 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: It makes me wonder why the authorities in China would 143 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: allow flights out to the rest of the world when 144 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,599 Speaker 1: they already knew it was a serious enough problem and 145 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: move on that they cut off the flights inside China. 146 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: I think that that gets to the theme that all 147 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: Americans and our partners now I should be asking is 148 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: why would the Chinese government act so irresponsibly and by 149 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: the way, I would say, those are the mistakes that 150 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: the Chinese government had early on, but they continue to 151 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: lie about their role in this and also in providing 152 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: explanations that would make sense to the rest of us. 153 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: It's a perfect example to what has been happening with 154 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: our Italian allies. There's no way around it that what's 155 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: happening there is directly related to Italy's over reliance and 156 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: trust of the Chinese government, and a Chinese government have 157 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: a lot to answer for what has happened to the 158 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: Italian population with this coronavirus On April sEH you wrote 159 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: an article five Lies China's telling about coronavirus, which was 160 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: an analysis of the thirty page document of the Chinese 161 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: Communist Party's version of reality. In your analysis, what are 162 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: the lives that are in this Chinese document? First of all, 163 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: I think that it's very telling that the Chinese government 164 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: felt the need to put out what it believed should 165 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: be the definitive account of the timeline. You can tell 166 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: that the Chinese are feeling that pressure from the United 167 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: States and from partners and allies about their lying. But 168 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: what was in the report, the thirty page document that 169 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: they issued is essentially what you and I have already 170 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: begun to discuss. So it's lies by omission and commission. 171 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: They talk about when they alerted the WHO, for instance, 172 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: that this was going on, and it lists on the 173 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: timeline when Shijimping met with the head of the WHO, 174 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: but it doesn't say that it had promised to allow 175 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: inspectors in to China to take a look at what 176 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: was going on with Wuhan and so at once credit 177 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: for being open, but it omits the fact that it 178 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: in fact took many more days for them to even 179 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: allow the United States the who to come in and 180 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: take a look. And by the way, I would also 181 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: point out President Trump has gotten quite a bit of 182 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: criticism from people because of his positive rhetoric towards Jijan 183 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: Peeing on Twitter in January, and I noted that that 184 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: conspicuously was going on when the United States was desperately 185 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: trying to get American medical scientists into Wuhan. So you 186 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: can see that President Trump would be trying to make 187 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: sure that the rhetoric at least was not esculatory between 188 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: the two countries, because we wanted our own people in 189 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: China to be able to figure out what was going on. 190 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: And the reason we wanted our own people in there, 191 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: obviously is because we wanted lab work. We wanted to 192 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: be able to get our hands on the sequence. We 193 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: couldn't do any of that until China let us in. 194 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: And then even then, as we talked about their destruction 195 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: of the wet markets, we couldn't even get all the 196 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: lab work that we eat it, which then makes it 197 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: very difficult for the United States government to know how 198 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: to calibrate a national response. That was one big example, 199 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: and obviously I talk about how they didn't include the 200 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: point that you made about closing down the lunar New 201 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: Year banquet, about Shiji and Ping's ownership of the problem, 202 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: about when they started to actually provide more information. And 203 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: then the last part, which I think is huge, is 204 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: it completely omits everything that they knew from their own 205 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: Chinese doctors and scientists and whistleblowers and activists who vary 206 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: early on were some of the first people to try 207 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: to sound the alarm, and the Chinese government arrested them, 208 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: sensored them, required them to recant some of the things 209 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: that they said, and in fact that one doctor lost 210 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: his life from fighting coronavirus with the patients there, and 211 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: so all of that lack of transparency is part of 212 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: this story that cannot be memory hold by the Chinese government. 213 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: Thank you were talking about doctor Lee. When Leang, who 214 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: is really the first person to publicly talk about this, 215 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: gets brought in as imprisoned forced to admit his guilt. 216 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: There were eight people arrested in that period. Do you 217 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: think that that was a regional decision or do you 218 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: think by that point it would already have gone as 219 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: high as Beijing, and that Beijing would have been aware 220 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: that they were arresting the people who are trying to 221 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: warn about the urge. I would say, just based on 222 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: my general knowledge of the way that the CCP works 223 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: and the tightening of control that jiz and Ping has 224 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: over the entire CCP apparatus, that it is very centralized, 225 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: so it would immediately go to the top, or if 226 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: not immediately, very soon there after. And I explained to people, 227 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: you have a government that is so intrusive that it 228 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: can control how many children a woman can have. That 229 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: is a very intrusive government, and there's very little separation 230 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: between local operators and Beijing. This is a country that 231 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: I think Americans have not fully appreciated the heaviness of 232 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: the reach and the authoritarianism of the Chinese Communist Party. 233 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: And remember this is not just a one off thing 234 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: where he had one scientist or one medical doctor that 235 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: was hushed or arrested. Even now, for as much as 236 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: we know about how dangerous this virus is, their academic 237 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: research that Chinese nationalists are trying to conduct as they 238 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: pursue in trying to get to the bottom of the 239 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: origins of the virus, even that is now by law 240 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: and China being censored, and anything related to the origins 241 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: is being censored and scrubbed, and there's a tight control 242 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: of censorship coming from the government there. So there is 243 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: still clearly a cover up and an intentional effort to 244 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: hide anything related to the origins in the early steps 245 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: of the government with this virus. Do you think in 246 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: that early phase that they thought they could get away 247 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: with covering it up and it would go away, or 248 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: do you think that they were just trying to buy 249 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: time If they really didn't believe it was going to 250 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: be that bad, they thought it was going to be 251 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: at worse stars, you sort of have some sense of 252 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: trying to minimize it and cover it up. But if 253 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: they had any notion of how rapidly transmittable it was, 254 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: this behavior is almost crazy because clearly, in a matter 255 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: of weeks it's going to break out. You won't be 256 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: able to hide it. What do you think Beijing had 257 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: in mind in this initial phase of trying to cover 258 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: it all up. Do you think that they thought they 259 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: actually could contain it and maybe have to go away. 260 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: I think that's a possibility in the very early stages, 261 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: because again of the decision to allow that Chinese Lunar 262 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: New Year to move forward, at least that was the 263 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: risk that they were willing to take that some people 264 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: might get infected, but maybe it won't crush the entire country. 265 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: But I think that that decision clearly lays bare a 266 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: lack of prioritization and care for the Chinese people in 267 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: terms of taking that risk. But then after that, my 268 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: sense is the extreme forced quarantining of Wuhan definitely signaled 269 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: to the United States we could see something really bad 270 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: was happening in Wuhan. I mean, we're talking about welding 271 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: people into their homes, arresting people on the streets who 272 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: weren't wearing masks, or very extreme police state activity, and 273 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: that kind of extreme quarantining tells me that holy smokes, 274 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: at that point, there was no question that the government 275 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: knew how deadly this disease could be and obviously the 276 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: economic impact that it could have, So I think by 277 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: that point it became very clear. But even now, curiously, 278 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: the Chinese government is still downplaying the numbers of people 279 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: who are currently infected with the virus, and because there 280 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: has been another wave, because it's a novel coronavirus, it 281 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: is still presenting itself and behaving in strange ways that 282 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: we haven't seen before, and so it does appear like 283 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: it's coming back and maybe even hitting some people who 284 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: have been previously infected with the virus hitting them again. 285 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: And it would be very useful to us, since China 286 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: is on the front wave of this, if they could 287 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: be more open and transparent with what's going on in 288 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: their country and giving us access to those patients so 289 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: that we can make informed decisions for our own people 290 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: as we try to open up the American economy. I 291 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: think it's almost certain that the Chinese are totally misleading 292 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 1: people about the number of deaths in the number of 293 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: people who currently haven't because they've claimed such radical progress. 294 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: It seems to me that they'd be better off to 295 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 1: be honest, because they're teaching everyone to have no belief 296 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: in any numbers they give us. Why do you think 297 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: they find it so hard to understand that they'd be 298 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: better off telling the truth. They're trying to uphold a 299 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: reputation that they have things under control better than they do. 300 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: That they're erroneously claiming to be this benevolent, generous world 301 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: leader in supplying other nations with the protective medical gear 302 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: that they need. That gear is sold to these countries 303 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: that are in desperate need of it, And the only 304 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: reason that China has it now is because they hoarded 305 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: it early on from countries like the Australians in order 306 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: to then turn around and make a profit on it. 307 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: But I think that they are still trying to manage reputation. 308 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: Truth is a function of time, and eventually the truth 309 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: comes out. And even now the Australian government, they're now 310 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: saying we really need to know about the origins of 311 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: the virus in China, and the Chinese government is being 312 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: very obstinate and pushing back hard against the Australian government, 313 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: which is not going to serve China well. And so 314 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: it's not even just the United States that's having a 315 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: hard time getting information. It's all these other countries who 316 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: still cannot get to the bottom of this. And the 317 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: Chinese government is not helping itself. It might think that 318 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: this is the way to get out of this mess, 319 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: but it's only digging a deeper hole for itself. We're 320 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: also seeing the face of the dictatorship over and over again. 321 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: They were recently bullying the European Union. They apparently have 322 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: been aggressive in almost every country, and there just seems 323 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: to be something about their need to do these things. 324 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: We attend as Americans to think that at the end 325 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: of the day, economics will win the day, that financial 326 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: interests are what is going to ultimately motivate people to 327 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: be fair and open and honest. But human beings and then, 328 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: of course, by extension, regimes are much more complicated than that, 329 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: and there's other factors, there's other ideologies that motivate the behaviors. 330 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: And for the Chinese government and especially under Jijianping, it's 331 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: a stalinist communism. As I've written and talked publicly about 332 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: what is going on in China, some of the responses 333 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: that I've gotten from Chinese nationalists has been full of vitriol, 334 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: some of it even vaguely threatening of me, very defensive 335 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: of Jijianping and the Chinese rise in the world. And 336 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: so you can see the potent Chinese nationalism tied to 337 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: Hiji and Chinese communism. That is very concerning and part 338 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: of how they are responding to the coronavirus. And the 339 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: Chinese government is not like all these other powers that 340 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: the United States interacts with. There's something very different about 341 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: it that makes it very problematic for handling a disaster 342 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: on the scale of the coronavirus. If they have been 343 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: honest about it early and allowed us in early, maybe 344 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: ninety to ninety five percent of the people who have 345 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: died would still be alive. What do you think our 346 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: response to the Chinese should be? One we need to 347 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: start as a country, We need to be very clear 348 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: about our intention to make a break from reliance. Obviously, 349 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: from a supply chain standpoint, we've over relied on Chinese manufacturing, 350 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: not just of goods generally, but if specifically of critical 351 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: things that we need asks, for instance, And that's part 352 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: of the reason that I think our diplomatic response have 353 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: to be a little bit careful, because we still are 354 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: trying to get things that we need out of China 355 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: to care for the American people. So some of that 356 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: needs to happen first before we can really implement the 357 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: full weight of punishment, which I think punishment is not 358 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: too strong of a word. There must be consequences for 359 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: this kind of behavior, and so one of the ideas 360 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: that I've heard is that the United States should support 361 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: some of these states that are now suing the Chinese 362 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: government for the medical expenses and economic loss that their 363 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: citizens have suffered at the hands of the coronavirus, which 364 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: the responsibility lies with China. I think that that's something 365 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: that the federal government should get behind and should support. 366 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: There's also sanctions, but we can't rely on the UN 367 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: Security Council. Obviously, China sits on the UN Security Council. 368 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: In China, with Russia routinely blocks with the United States 369 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: tries to do with the UN Security Council. So a 370 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: lot of this is going to have to be with 371 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: the United States and with some of our partners who 372 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: are trying to help us push back on China. But 373 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: sanctions is another option. Another thing that I think is 374 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: absolutely critical, the Chinese government very much cares about American 375 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: student visas that we grant Chinese students. We are an 376 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: open society. We love the exchange of ideas. We are 377 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: a country based on ideas. We welcome all these other 378 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: nationalities to come and study here. The problem is the 379 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party has massive surveillance and a long reach 380 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: into what the Chinese nationals are studying here. And about 381 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: eighty percent of all economic espionage prosecutions brought about by 382 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: the US Department of Justice alleged conduct that would benefit 383 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: the Chinese state, and there's some nexus to the Chinese 384 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: government about sixty percent of all trade secret the cases. 385 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: A lot of that has to do with their ties 386 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: to academic institutions and universities. So I think we need 387 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: to take a hard look at these student visas and 388 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: at the investments on the part of Chinese companies. I 389 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: wrote a book back in October Trump versus China trying 390 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: to outline just how profoundly different the dictatorship is from 391 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: the various American images of how it was going to evolve. 392 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: And what really struck me and has been really dramatically 393 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: compounded by the experience of this virus and the Chinese 394 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: behavior around the virus, is that we're going to have 395 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: to have a very profound resetting of our entire approach 396 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: to China at layers that we're not comfortable with and 397 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: we're not used to, because much more than the Soviet 398 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Union in the Cold War, this is a very sophisticated dictatorship. 399 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: Doesn't occur to you that this is a bigger and 400 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: harder challenge than we have thought up to now. I 401 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: absolutely agree with that the more you dig into the 402 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: China problem, the more you realize just how deep the 403 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: problem is. And I think even now, though there is 404 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: still an attachment to this concept of globalism and multilateralism 405 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: that was so overwhelming that made these hard changes all 406 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: of them harder. And I think some of the impulses 407 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: of President Trump and the Trump administration makes some of 408 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: these changes a little bit easier, but they're still very difficult. 409 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: This is going to be a long effort. We're going 410 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: to be in this for many, many years across administrations. 411 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: It's going to require a bipartisan effort. There really needs 412 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: to be a national education of our people to understand 413 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: we have to buy American products. We cannot be satisfied 414 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: with cheap goods made in China that we are funding 415 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: and emboldening and empowering an adversary who is desperately trying 416 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: to pull away the global leadership mantle from the United 417 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: States and remake the world into a China model. These 418 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 1: are hard conversations that's going to take a long time, 419 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: and there is going to have to be some nuance 420 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: to it, because you can't just pull the rug out 421 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: from under the relationship all at once, because, as you said, 422 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: how complicated the problem is, and unfortunately how interwoven our 423 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: economies still are. It's a major challenge. And I would 424 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: also say President Trump, to his credit, has been focused 425 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: on the China problem, but he's been narrowly focused on 426 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: the trade problem. And he's allowed the State Department in 427 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: the Department of Defense to handle some of the other 428 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: pieces because of coronavirus. Now is the time for him 429 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: to really explain it to the American people. He needs 430 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: to lay out the nature of the kind of competition 431 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: that we are in with the Chinese Communist Party, how 432 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: it's affecting the entire government and not just in this 433 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: tiny component of trade. And I would be remiss if 434 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: I didn't point out not only is this going to 435 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: require multiple administrations and republican and democratic bipartisanship, it's also 436 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: going to require the help of our allies and partners. 437 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: You're talking about just the behemoth that is the Chinese government. 438 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: They have been very patiently but intentionally working to get 439 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: all these other partners and allies that the United States 440 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: has had for so many years under their own thumb 441 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: and trying to pull them into their orbit. And so 442 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: we need to be very intentional about making sure that 443 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: those countries that share our values and share our vision 444 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 1: for what a peaceful order would look like, in which 445 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: nations that are sovereign have their sovereignty protected and aren't 446 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: threatened simply because they have weaker militaries. We need to 447 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: make sure that we are getting behind countries like Australia 448 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: and Japan and the Vietnamese who are pushing back against 449 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: Chinese military. And we need to get behind Taiwan who 450 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: is being very clear about the difference between a democratic 451 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: society versus the authoritarian nature of the Chinese Communist Party. 452 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Well, listen, I want to thank you. 453 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: I think you're one of the pioneers who's going to 454 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: help us think this through and help us find a solution. 455 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: And I really appreciate your taking the time. Thank you 456 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: so much, and please do stay well. Thank you to 457 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: my guest, Rebecca Heinrich. You can read miss Heimwick's article 458 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: and learn more about China and the early spread of 459 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen from Wuhan to other areas of the world 460 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: on our show Pitch at newtsworld dot com. Newts World 461 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: is produced by GNGWISH three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 462 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: producer is Debbie Myers and our producer was Guarnsislav. The 463 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendler. Special 464 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gaingwish three sixty. Please email 465 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: me with your comments at newt at mintsworld dot com. 466 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying news World, I hope you'll go 467 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars 468 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: and give us a review so others can learn what 469 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: it's all about. And the next episode of Newsworld, our 470 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: China COVID nineteen series continues with Part two. I'll look 471 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: at the role of big data and artificial intelligence can 472 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: play and tracking global pandemics and make the case for 473 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: why United States health authorities should be using this advanced 474 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: technology to create an early warning system to hopefully prevent 475 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: the spread of future pandemics. I'm new danguish. This is 476 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: news World.