1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: What the first lady of France's alleged crank has to 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: do with anti Semitism. That's right, you heard me. 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:13,079 Speaker 2: It's one more thing, one more thing. So before we 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 2: get to that, I got a question. I don't know, 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: maybe you guys know the answer to this. I forgot 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 2: to research it. I came across his headline. Well, his 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: online is a headline and something I've never heard of. Right, 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: there's like nine million different outlets that I've never heard of, 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: and I don't know which ones are real and which 10 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: ones are folk, fake or whatever. This one is something 11 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 2: called the Perennial Mahomes to play trumpet at Travis and 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: Taylor's wedding. And the quote is I've been training for 13 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: this my whole life. Does Patrick Mahomes play the trumpet? 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 2: And is he going to play the trumpet at their wedding? 15 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: And has he been training for this his whole life? 16 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: If that's fake, I love it because it's so stupid. 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: Well, it's got a picture. 18 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: What I'm gonna do. I'm gonna post that Patrick Mahomes 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: is going to play the trumpet at Kelsey's wedding. 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: Eng and claim this is his dream come true. There's 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: a picture that is clearly AI if Patrick Mahomes in 22 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: a tuxedo with a flower on it, like he's a 23 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: groomsman with a trumpet in his mouth. Yes, So that 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: Internet AI overview says no, there is no indication that 25 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes plays the trumpet. Then I agree with Joe 26 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 2: that is one of the where did that come from? Strangest, Hello, 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 2: it would be a funny prank to play on people. 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: How do you explain why that's so funny? It's the 29 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: utter stupidity is the wrong word. It's thet I. 30 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: Don't know what was the source, the utter lack of 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 3: any motivation anybody could possibly have to make that particular 32 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 3: claim that that's what makes it funny. 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: It's something called the perennial. It's like saying he adopted 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: three cats. I mean, who cares, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 35 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: I see what you mean. It's subtle enough. It's like okay, 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: because it's not like, you know, has decided to write 37 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: a donkey into the wedding chapel or something that would 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: be no. She say, he's been practicing his whole life, 39 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 2: and he's really looking forward to the opportunity to play 40 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: the trump at his best friend's weddingrumpet. 41 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: Maybe they're just seeing how far they can get it 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: to spread, you know, just as in a social experiment. 43 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: I gotta start thinking up just random things like that 44 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: and see if I can get them going. Yeah, I've 45 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 2: thought of. 46 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: That many many times. I would like to do that. 47 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: I mean, and it's so easy these days with you 48 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: can fake up the graphics and whatever and see if 49 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: you can get this stuff to go viral. But there 50 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: are plenty of people already doing that. 51 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: And in the headline, mahomes to play trumpet at Travis 52 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: and Taylor's wedding quote, I've been training for this my 53 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: whole life. How great would that be? 54 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: Trumpet? Speaking of internet trollery, what does the alleged pennis 55 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: of the First Lady of France have to do with 56 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: anti Semitism? 57 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 2: Okay, so back to that story is briefly wife a dude, 58 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: which would include such broad shoulders, a pennace, which there 59 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: are pictures and videos out there that claim, see you 60 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: can see it right there, I mean you can She's 61 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: got swinging junk right there, you can see it. Yeah. 62 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: Well, I came across a great piece by Cat Rosenfield 63 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: in the free press, who talks about how she does 64 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: a lot of fairly edgy stuff on the internet and 65 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: journalism wise and stuff, and so she's getting she gets 66 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: trolled and what she calls humorous outrage and cancelation from 67 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: outraged junkies left and right, and one, before we get 68 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: into the meat of it, I really like this story, no, dear, 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: an idiot, she says. I won't trouble you with further 70 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: details because they're both ridiculous and unimportant. And for the 71 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: most part, these pylons always play out the same way. 72 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: The outrage lasts a day or two. While it does, 73 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: it's rarely worth engaging in. But in the middle to 74 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: this latest one, something unusual, get to the real sausage 75 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: of the story for us, a prolific journalist cut that 76 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: part out. Yeah, a prolific journalist named Hamilton Kine, who 77 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: I have never met nor interacted with, publicly announced that 78 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: he was privy to some salacious information about my alleged 79 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: racist proclivities courtesy of my most trusted colleagues and family friends. 80 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: So this guy is online, and this guy's got a 81 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: lot of followers in all claiming that she's really a 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: serious racist and he's been talking to close family and 83 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: friends about it. 84 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: Of hers. 85 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: I'm friends with her editor and one of her one 86 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: of my former publishing colleagues is best friends with her mother. 87 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: Dang the stories I've heard. He wrote on X Black 88 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: Racist a f So the interesting part of this Cat 89 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: Rosenfeld piece about making like wildly unfounded claims about people, 90 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: and she she talks about the first Lady and that 91 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: whole thing and what's her name, Candice O, and Zoo 92 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: keeps going back to it, and she said, originally she 93 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: just thought it's about childish idiots troll people online. She says, 94 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: worst of all, a world where the only recourse against 95 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: these lying liars, even if you're the first Lady, you're 96 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: freaking France, is to debase yourself by responding in such 97 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: a way that even when you win, you still kind 98 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: of lose. And there's a famous saying, and this is 99 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: where it turns serious. There's a famous saying often attributed 100 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: to Jean Paul Sautre, although it's a paraphrase and it 101 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: doesn't matter quote. The anti Semite does not accuse the 102 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He 103 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out 104 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: his pockets to prove his innocence. In other words, people 105 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: who traffic in destructive rumor mongering are often telling stories 106 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: they even they don't believe. The point is not the 107 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: lie themselves. The point is the burden it places on 108 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: the person being lied about to perform the exhausting, undignified, 109 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: humiliating exercise of refuting the allegations. 110 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: That's interesting, So like getting back to Macrohn's wife, So 111 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: Candice Owens makes those kind of comments or whatever, it 112 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 2: does put you in the undignified position of proving she's wrong, 113 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: or even responding to it right, which would be unpleasant. 114 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: And Kat writes, it's about stealing their time and energy, 115 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: about the power trip of setting little fires in someone 116 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: else's house and then sitting back laughing while they run 117 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: around trying to extinguish That sounds about real, exactly like 118 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 2: exactly what is happening? 119 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: And then does any she skips ahead talk more about 120 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: the Macrone says, does anyone believe this? Probably not, or 121 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: at least not at first, But after a while, repeated 122 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: allegations of wrongdoing eventually start getting treated like proof in 123 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: and of themselves. The first time you walk past the 124 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: jew turning out his pockets to prove he isn't a thief, 125 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: you sympathize. The seventeenth time you start to wonder, what's 126 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: this guy doing so that people are accusing him of 127 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: stealing all the time. There's got to be something to it. 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: Well, I gotta admit I've gone and that's where I've 129 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: ended up, not like, not for real, but a little 130 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: bit like on the Michelle Obama being a man. Greg 131 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: Guttfeld has made that joke so many times that I 132 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: start thinking, why are so many people making that joke? 133 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: Is there something I'm missing? 134 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's see And sometimes oh, she goes into 135 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: the because of the repeated accusation, starts to give people 136 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: the idea that maybe I should be Maybe there's something 137 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: to this, she says. For this reason, the question of 138 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: when to turn out your pockets to fight back and 139 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: when to just turn away has no easy answer. Refuting 140 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: a falsehood means dignifying it in some sense by stooping 141 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: to the liar's level. 142 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely well. 143 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: That staying silent, on the other hand, can look like 144 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: a tacit confirmation that the falsehood is true. 145 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: I think that's exactly what Trump did to Obama with 146 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: the birth certificate. You put him in the awkward position 147 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: of having to, you know, dignify it and refute it. 148 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then she goes into the example of Armie Hammer, 149 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: who found himself at the center of one of the 150 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: weirder Me Too Maelstroms after a former partner accused him 151 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: of rape and physical abuse, along with other sensational offenses. 152 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: Though Hammer was never charged, his public denial of the 153 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: allegations paradoxically made people wonder if there might be something 154 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: to them, especially when accompanied by memorable headlines such as 155 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: Armie Hammer denies cannibalism claims. 156 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, yeah right because of the denial. So 157 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: you you get into that whole Streisand effect thing where 158 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: everybody found out Barber Streisand's address because she was arguing 159 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: so much about hey, you don't tell people my address. Yeah, 160 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: you end up with that situation. 161 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but the one part that I will you know, 162 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: take away and really keep is that people don't accuse 163 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: the jew of stealing because they think they're stealing. They 164 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: just want to humiliate them by making them turn their 165 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: pocket out over and over again. 166 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 2: When to fight it and when to just let it 167 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: lie is a heck of a that's a heck of 168 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: a thing, right. I think everybody starts with I'll let 169 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: it lie, but then it starts to grow a little 170 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: and you think, well, I need to respond to this. 171 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: But then it's off to the races. Now you got 172 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: another day of the news story, more headlines. Just like 173 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: Katie said, here, you've heard the story of the cannibalism 174 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 2: because of the denial, right right exactly. 175 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: We've always both of us on the show gone with 176 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: the policy that we publicize our sins. So you know, 177 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: if somebody says, you know, somebody writes the headline Joe 178 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: Geddy drinks himself insensible watching a playoff baseball, somebody to 179 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: see that and say, oh yeah, they talked about that 180 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: for like half an hour Thursday, And. 181 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: It'd be hard to imagine coming up with a headline 182 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: that would be more embarrassing to me than things I've 183 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: admitted I've done. So that helps. 184 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: I got a couple, you know, I am always bringing 185 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: up care donible, isn't Michael why I'll do the math, 186 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying. Me and missus McCrone nibbling on 187 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: a nice calf together, and I don't mind the I 188 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: mean the kind that says move. 189 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: Well. I guess that's it.