1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's sound On today. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: We intend to show the American people the January six 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: is not an isolated incident. I said, are you out 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: of your f in mind? It creates cave We're gonna 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: drag through the streets. Floomberg sound on Politics, Policy and 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: perspective from DC's top name. The United States will provide 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: an additional one billion dollars security assistant package. A very 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: tough slog, very severe battle of attrition, almost World War 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: One life. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: The January six Committee reveals back room conversations showing the 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: Trump white House knew the plan to overturn the election 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: was illegal. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics with 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: new info today on the pressure campaign against Mike Pence, 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: an Oval office phone call you have not heard about yet, 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: and a pardon sought by Trump's legal counsel. We will 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: discuss a pivotal day on Capitol Hill ahead with Bloomberg's 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: Mike Dorning, and we'll focus on the legal outcome here 18 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: with Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor with us in just 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: a moment later, as the fight in Ukraine grinds into 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: a war of attrition, the US prepares another billion dollar 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: weapons package. We'll talk about the status of this battle 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: with Bill Roggio, Senior fellow at the Foundation for the 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: Defense of Democracies our panel today. Bloomberg Politics contributor Democratic 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: analyst Genie Shenzano was with us, along with Republican strategist 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: Adam Goodman. The House Committee investigating January six brings new 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: information about what led to the attack on the Capitol. 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: They did hold another hearing today. We're watching so you 28 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: don't have to focusing on how White House Council John 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: Eastman cooked up a theory to overturn the election. You've 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: heard about this, using so called alternate electors and the 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: pressure campaign against Mike Pence to carry it out. When 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Mike Pence made it clear that he wouldn't give in 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: to Donald Trump's skiing, Donald Trump turned the mob on him. 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: Chairman Benny Thompson. The panel played video from that day, 35 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: beginning with Donald Trump on the ellipse, the speech of 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: course out in front of the White House, and then 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: rioters hearing the news about Mike Pence Listening Mike Pence. 38 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: I hope you're gonna stand up for the good of 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: our constitution and for the good of our country. And 40 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: if you're not, I'm gonna be very disappointed in you. 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: I will tell you right now. I'm telling you what 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: I'm hearing. The pits. I hearing the pits. Just cave. No, 43 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: is that true. I'm here, I'm hearing reports the Pence cave. 44 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: I'm telling you. If Pence cave, We're gonna drag through 45 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: the streets. This is as they're walking towards the castle. 46 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: They're going to the streets. And then of course the 47 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: gallows directed to hang my pants new today in the 48 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: hearing this is important. A phone call that Donald Trump 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: made to Mike Pence for the Oval Office the morning 50 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: of January six, before he put his coat on to 51 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: go to the ellipse. The Trump family was in the room, 52 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: including Ivanka, who you will hear, along with presidential advisors 53 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: Eric Hirshman and Nicholas Luna. When I entered the office 54 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: the second time, he was on the telephone with who 55 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: I later found out to be was the Vice President. 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: Could you hear the vice president or only hear the 57 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: president's end? The only God the president's end at some point. 58 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: It started off as a commer tone and everything and 59 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: then became heated. The conversation was pretty heated, I think, 60 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: until it became somewhat in a louder tone. I don't 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: think anyone was paying attention to it initially. Did you 62 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: hear any part of the phone call, even if just 63 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: this the end that the president was speaking from? I did, yes, 64 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: all right? And what'd you hear? So? As I was 65 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: dropping off the note my memory, I remember hearing the 66 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: word whim. Either he called him a whim. I don't 67 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: remember he said you are a whim, You'll be a whim. 68 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: Whimp was the word I remember. Whimp was one word 69 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: used on that call. Ivanka Trump's chief of staff Julie 70 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: Radford tells us that they got more profane from there, 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: something to the effect, this is the wording is wrong. 72 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: I made the wrong decision four or five years ago. 73 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: Is the word that she relates to that the president 74 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: called the vice president apologize for being impolite. But do 75 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: you remember what she said? Her father called him the 76 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: P word. The P word as described by Radford. Let's 77 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: bringing Bloomberg, Congress reporter A longtime Washington journalist Mike Dorning, 78 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: who watched this and has been writing about it all day. 79 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: This was a tough day for Donald Trump. Mike, it's 80 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: great to have you. But was it even worse for 81 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: John Eastman? The stuff that we heard today, also learning 82 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: that he sought a presidential pardon after this. Yeah, there 83 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: were two things that kind of struck me that were 84 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: really damning for John Eastman. One is um Vice President 85 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: Um Pence, his chief council said that Eastman at one 86 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: point admitted to him that, hey, if this legal strategy 87 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: would come to the Supreme Court, we would lose nine 88 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: ten nothing. And then, as you mentioned, after this was over, 89 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: he was saying, please can I get on a pardon 90 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: list for my part on this? When the committee tried 91 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: to interview him, he invoked his Fifth Amendment rights because 92 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: he wasn't pardoned A hundred times, Yeah, a hundred times. 93 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: And we got a little bit of a taste of that. Um. 94 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: That phone call is not something that we've heard about before, 95 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: at least not on a formal level. Here with Trump 96 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: calling Pence, isn't it something to hear it? Though? From 97 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: the words coming directly from Ivanka Trump, who who seemed 98 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: disturbed about what she had witnessed. Yeah, she said she'd 99 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: never heard him speak to the vice president like that before. 100 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: You know, maybe other people. Um, it does make a 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: difference because some of this has been out there. The 102 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: details of that call have been kind of out there 103 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: in print, according to anonymous p ball, But it's something 104 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: different to see the president's daughter saying under oath, this 105 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: is what happened. Aids that were so close to the 106 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: president that they were in the Oval Office with the 107 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: President on this day. We're not talking minor aids. We're 108 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: talking people in the Oval Office saying this on video 109 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: under oath, under penalty of perjury. This is a dramatic 110 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: portrait of the president that day. And and to me, 111 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: the things that were most stunning about the hearing was 112 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 1: just Pence's wild day and some of these new chilling 113 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: detailshs and photographs in this undisclosed location and uh kind 114 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: of um, you know, the mob was within forty feet 115 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: of him. Informant for the Proud Boys from who was 116 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: in the Proud Boys said that the Proud Boys were 117 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: going to kill him. They got him and uh, some 118 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: some sort of moments of steel that you know again 119 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: these are being said under oath, so we assume they're truthful. 120 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: That kind of uh, you know, glorify Pence. But one 121 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: thing that struck me was not only did he refuse 122 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: to leave the capital, but the Secret Service sort of 123 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: wisely said, if we're stuck in this underground garage, let's 124 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: get you inside the armored car in case, um, you 125 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't get in. He said, no way, because I don't 126 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: want to leave here. And well, I trust you, the 127 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: detail leader. I do not trust the driver of the 128 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: mobs invading not to hit the gas. Mike Darning find 129 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: his work on the terminal and on the website. It's 130 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: great to have you with us. Let's do a deeper 131 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: dive next here. And when is it? By the way, 132 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: on's the next round. I think it's next Tuesday. He's 133 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: got moved around a little bit and will of course 134 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,559 Speaker 1: have the full smash prime time conclusion at some point. 135 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: I'm happy you could join us, Mike, thank you for 136 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: I would love to absolutely we'll do it again here 137 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg sound On. As we mentioned that prey residential pardon, 138 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: Congressman Pete Aghilar, Democrat on the panel, described what Eastman 139 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: had put in email for Dr Eastman emailed Rudy Giuliani 140 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: and requested that he'd be included on a list of 141 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: potential recipients of her presidential pardon. Dr Eastman's email stated quote, 142 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: I've decided that I should be on the pardon list 143 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: if that is still in the works. Dr Eastman did 144 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: not receive his presidential partner. He didn't. Michael Zelden joins 145 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: us now former federal prosecutor, former special counsel to Robert 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: Mueller while at the Department of Justice. It's great to 147 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: have you back with us, Michael. A lot of us 148 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: are trying to figure out where this is going, and 149 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: we heard from the chairman, Benny Thompson a short time ago. 150 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: I guess the Department of Justice is not happy that 151 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: this panel has not been providing all of its information. 152 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: They want transcripts of all these interviews. Is the committee 153 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: slowing the investigation into what happened on January six? I 154 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't think so. I would think that the Committee will 155 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: in good order give these transcripts to the d o J. 156 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: Why they didn't yet is not knowable, But I don't 157 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: expect that there will be any breach between the committee 158 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: and the d J, and the d J will get 159 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: everything it needs to make a determination. Yeah. Benny Thompson, 160 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, was asked about this, and we understand 161 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: that he says it's not coming anytime soon, not until 162 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: we're done with our hearings. Liz Cheney has been more 163 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: in favor of passing that along. The fact of the 164 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: matter is, though, Michael, and the reason why we wanted 165 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: to talk to you, is how this culminates. Beyond setting 166 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: the timeline in stone, what will be the legal ramifications 167 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: that come from this, whether or not they decide to indict. 168 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: That's um former President Trump. What is being presented here 169 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: is evidence of a conspiracy with seven parts to it, 170 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: and today we heard another one of those parts, or 171 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: two parts actually, one was the pressure campaign that Trump 172 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: placed on Pence, and then the second one is what 173 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: they called the pouring gasoline on the fire, which was 174 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: Trump summoning, assembling the violent mob and directing them to 175 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: march on the capital. So we heard pretty clear evidence 176 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: of this. And in a criminal conspiracy, the most difficult 177 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: thing is to prove criminal intent. Did the person know 178 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: that what they were doing was illegal and decided to 179 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: act anyway? And That's what the evidence was most clear 180 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: on today. Yeah, it's sounding a lot like it here, Michael. 181 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: Not just Donald Trump I want to ask you about, 182 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: but also John Eastman, this former counsel who, as we know, 183 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: sought a pardon. Listen to what presidential advisor Eric Hirshman 184 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: said when Eastman first approached him with this idea of 185 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: overturning the election. He was walking through it at that time, 186 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: and I said, to hold on a second, I want 187 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. You're saying that you believe the 188 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: Vice president, acting as President of the Senate can be 189 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: the sole decision maker as to under your theory, who 190 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: becomes the next president United States. And he said yes. 191 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: M I said, are you out of your f in mind? 192 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: Quite a conversation. January six happens the day after Johnny 193 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: Easman calls Hershman on the phone to try to float 194 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: the idea of doing something. There's another appeal they could 195 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: make in Georgia or something like that. Hershman did not 196 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: pull back this time either. Irena said, I don't want 197 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: to hear any other f and words coming out of 198 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: your mouth, no matter what other than orderly transition. Repeat 199 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: those words to me. Eventually you said orderly transition. I said, good, John. 200 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: Now I'm going to give you the best free legal 201 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: advice you're ever getting in your life. Get a great 202 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: f in criminal defense lawyer. You're gonna need it. Is 203 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: he right? Michael's elden, Well, it again appears that the 204 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: President United States, along with John Eastman, along with Rudy Giuliani, 205 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: along with Sidney Powell, engaged in a criminal conspiracy to 206 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: obstruct and defraud the United States government. That there was 207 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: an agreement, there was guilty knowledge, criminal intent, and they 208 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: were acts in furtherance of that conspiracy. And yeah, you know, 209 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: from a straight constitutional analysis, there's nothing that prevents the 210 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: former president from being indicted. And from a straight criminal 211 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: law analysis, the elements of a criminal conspiracy have been 212 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: laid out pretty clearly today. The next couple of hearings 213 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: need to accomplish what Michael, if this is the direction 214 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: we're going in, well, I think what they're going to 215 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: be doing is trying to prove each of the seven 216 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: prongs of their conspiracy. They're saying the president engaged in 217 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: the seven part conspiracy. The first was the Big Law, 218 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: the second was to replace the acting attorney general. The 219 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: third was to pressure Pence, the fourth was to pressure 220 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: state officials, the fifth was to do the false selectors scheme, 221 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: the sixth was the violent mob, and the seventh was 222 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: in action when this was going on. So I think 223 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: what happens next is the pressure campaign on state officials. 224 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: We haven't heard the evidence of that yet in these hearings, 225 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: and so they're just working their way through these seven elements, 226 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: and I think what they'll conclude with it to say, 227 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: we have essentially proved our case America. The President of 228 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: United States, former president of the United States, along with 229 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: the following people engage in the conspiratory to obstruct into 230 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: fraud the Congress in these seven ways, and then they'll say, here, 231 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: d o J is up to you. What's DOJ doing? Lastly, Michael, 232 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: right now, though they're they're conducting their own investigation in 233 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: tandem here exactly right. They are not sitting back doing nothing. 234 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: They are investigating. But they have not gotten the head 235 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: start that the January six committee did, and that's why 236 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: they're asking for assistance with the transcripts. And I think 237 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: what is going to be the case is what Thompson 238 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: said is as soon as they've laid out their case, 239 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,599 Speaker 1: They're going to give their information to organization has the 240 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: authority to indict, and that's the d o J. In 241 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: the end, this is a Department of Justice story. Though 242 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: right Americans and and historians are following the committee, the 243 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: do o J has the action. Well, I think that's true, 244 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: and it's not true. I think it's true from a 245 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: criminal law perspective. But of course what's going on here 246 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: is a very important political story, which you know, on 247 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: which the democratic government that we cherish is on trial. 248 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: And so I think you have both. You have the 249 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: what is what happened and what can we do to 250 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: prevent it from happening politically? And then second who will 251 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: be held accountable criminally? So I think those things happen 252 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: in sandem. Look glad you could join us. Michael zeld 253 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: In a voice of experience, former federal prosecutor and former 254 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: special counsel to Robert Muller while at the Department of Justice. 255 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: We thank you, Michael, I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. This 256 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg sound On. You're not going to hear conversations 257 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: like this anywhere else today as we try to not 258 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: sensationalize what's happening, but better understand where the heck this 259 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: is going. And we're gonna assemble our panel next for 260 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: more on this. The headline on the terminal now January six. 261 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: Committee wants to talk to Jenny Thomas, Yes, the wife 262 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: of Justice Clarence Thomas. Apparently this will happen. The chairman, 263 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: Bennie Thompson says, the committee plans to ask the wife 264 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: of Justice Clarence Thomas to answer questions about her involvement 265 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: in plans to overturn the election. As we have understood 266 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: now that email correspondence from John Eastman, the aforementioned at 267 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: the panel recently obtained shows that Jenny Thompson was in 268 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: contact with the attorney and talked about her efforts to 269 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: keep Joe Biden out of office. Washington Post broke it. 270 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: We'll see if the Committee gets somewhere on this. Speaking 271 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: of Benny Thompson, as we assemble our panel here, listen 272 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: to this back and forth from the chair of the 273 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: committee as he walks of the hearing room faces a 274 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: group of reporters in the hallway to talk about why 275 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: the committee is not sharing all of this with the 276 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: Department of Justice. This just happened, essentially a letter accuse 277 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: you guys of hampering their investigation. Are you going to 278 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: turn over those transcripts? We just got the letter yesterday. 279 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: I asked you about it on Tuesday too, So are 280 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: you going to turn over the transcripts in due time? 281 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: You will? Are you agree? Listen to me? There, don't don't. 282 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: We got the letter yesterday, we're reviewing it. Will respond 283 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: to them, but we in the midst of conducting hearings. 284 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: We have a program to get over. We have to 285 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: get the facts and circumstances behind January six. We will 286 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: work with them, but we have a report to do 287 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: what We are not going to stop what we're doing 288 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: to share the information that we've gotten so far. All right, 289 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: there's Benny Thompson straight from the chairman's mouth. A short 290 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: time ago he was asked to how about the end 291 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: of the week, He said no. As we assembled our panel, 292 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Genie's with us in studio today Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic 293 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: analyst Jennie Chanzano joined by Adam Goodman, Republican Strategists, columnist 294 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: and partner at Battered Partners in Washington, also a senior 295 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: Fellow at Tufts University's Fletcher School. Genie, it's great to 296 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: see in Washington and welcome back Adam Goodman. Pretty remarkable 297 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: second half of the hearing, Genie, I think you and 298 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: I both agree how much trouble is John Eastman in 299 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: and what's going on here with the Department of Justice. Yeah, well, 300 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: well John Eastman, first off, I mean, the idea that 301 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: he asked to be put on that part in list, 302 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: I mean shows that he has a sense that he 303 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: could be in very big trouble. And I thought the 304 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: clip you played by Hirshman is indicative of that. And 305 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: he told him, I'm going to give you free legal 306 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: advice and the best advice you're going to get to 307 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,239 Speaker 1: get an attorney because you're in trouble. And you know, 308 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: I think the federal judge talking about this as a 309 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: coup in search of illegal theory, and of course Eastman 310 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and Trump at the center of that coup, so he's 311 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: in big trouble. I have a lot of questions about 312 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: what's going on between the committee and the Department of Justice. 313 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: I don't understand it Justice at the outset, and I 314 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you know, your previous guests this but 315 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: why can't they turn over or won't they turn over 316 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: this material? It can't be difficult for the committee to 317 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: physically turn this over. They're not going to have to 318 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: rewrite it by hand. They just put it on at 319 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 1: the same thing. So I have a lot of questions 320 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: as to why that's not happening. I don't know. Adam 321 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: may have a better answer than I do, but I 322 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: think it's it's a perplexing that there seems to be, 323 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, by Benny Thompson, this resistance to working with 324 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice at this point? Are they afraid 325 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: that the d o J is going to steal their work? 326 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it actually add credibility to the committee to have 327 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: d o J behind this? I'm laughing right now, jeez. 328 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: I thought I could explain this. I explained in two words, Washington, 329 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, parlor game and ship games. Ship actually three words. 330 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,719 Speaker 1: I mean where we are right now? We have we 331 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: if you if you remember the public, this seems to 332 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: be West Wing meeting the House of Cards, right, So 333 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: they're starting to they're starting to get very interested in, well, 334 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: what's the next part, the next chapter. But let's put 335 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: this all in perspective for a second. Uh, I believe 336 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: that punishing actions in the past talking about political now, 337 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: Punishing actions in the past will prove far more difficult 338 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: than punishing such acts in the future because a lot 339 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: of questions are being raised. So say this continues down 340 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: this path, and you know the revelations that you're hearing, 341 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: the conversations about between the president, the vice president, and 342 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: the attorney. I mean, if this were a megaphone that 343 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: had been in the presidential office for the last presidents, 344 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: we have a lot of fun and a lot of color. 345 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: But I'm not excusing. I'm just saying, this is act 346 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: she bringing into light, the public light conversations that here 347 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: before have been somewhat private. What does it really lead to. 348 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: If it leads to some resolution that heals the republic, 349 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: I think that's something that Americans will uccept. However, right now, 350 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: I think we're moving down a path where, ultimately, short 351 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: of indictment, the Democrats will think we didn't go far enough, 352 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: Republicans I've went too far, and independence will thank we 353 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: just had enough of all this. Let's get back to 354 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: the real show, which is beating inflation. There's a lot 355 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: to be said for that. Genie does it? Is it 356 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: indictment or bust them? You know, Adam stole my notes 357 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: because I wrote on my notes Adam House of Cards, 358 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: and he had so he was smarter than I was. 359 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,239 Speaker 1: But yeah, but you know, I think what is so 360 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: frightening to me about this is what the judge said 361 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: at the end, which is that this is not just 362 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: about history and not just about sort of an accounting 363 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: what happened, but what's coming down the pike. And you 364 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: and I were just talking to the last few days 365 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: about the fact that we have two key swing states 366 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: in Florida Nevada, which may have election deniers as in 367 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: charge of the counting of votes as Secretary of States. 368 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: We also have seen these Republican primaries where election deniers 369 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: are winning far more than losing. And of course, you know, 370 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: you also have the Proud Boys who have come out 371 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: of the shadows of doing you know, threatening to kill 372 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: the vice president out enough, taking over the Miami Dad 373 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: Republican Party. So they have moved themselves into politics. So 374 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: this is a very threatening time. I think committee doesn't 375 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: change anything, and this committee doesn't change any of that. 376 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: I think one thing, if they could, you know, reform 377 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: that Electoral count Act. That would be a good start 378 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned. I think those are the 379 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: kind of important things. And to get the American public 380 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: to see that the election was Remember there was a 381 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: time Democrats, namely progressives, were very upset with that as 382 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: an option. They wanted the comprehensive of voting reform. How 383 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: important is that, Adam Goodman to get that done? I 384 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: think for the confidence of the American people, it's incredibly 385 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: important that we find a way the field that elections 386 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: not only means something again, but that we can take 387 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: it to the bank. And we're not there. You look 388 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: at two thousand sixteen or more of Democrats thought that 389 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: Hillary was a legitimate winner. Two thousand twenty. Uh, you 390 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: know you you go to two thousand twenty and the 391 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: same thing in reverse terms of Trump. We gotta do 392 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: something there. We don't and we and right now what 393 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: we have is partisan bickering over what the resolution is. 394 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: But can I just point out the irony of all 395 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: this that les Okay, we were looking at an indictment, 396 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: a seven part indictment. Pandora's Box had seven deadly sins rath, gluttony, greed, 397 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: and the slow pride and lust. There are a lot 398 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: of parallels here between that box in the box that 399 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: I think America is find itself into these hearings. How's 400 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: the Cards meets West Wing? Adam Goodman excellent, Jeannie Chanzino, 401 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: the best analysis here. This is Bloomberg. Welcome to Bloomberg. 402 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: Sound on as we join you live from the nation's 403 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: capital with an eye on Ukraine. The President, in fact, 404 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: was on the phone with Vladimir Zelenski yesterday, vowing to 405 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: provide an additional billion dollars in security assistance as they 406 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: try to fight off Russian forces in the east. The 407 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: battle for the Don Bust continues. The Secretary of Defense, 408 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: Lloyd Austin says, this is what happens when you're in 409 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: the war zone. The United States. We'll provide an additional 410 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: one billion dollars security assistant package for Ukraine, and that 411 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: includes our twelfth draw down from d O D inventory 412 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: since August. Were you're in a fight, you can never 413 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: get enough. Uh. You you always want more, You always 414 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: believe that you need more. And I have been there, 415 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: uh and so I you know, certainly understand where the 416 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: Ukrainians are coming from. And we're gonna fight hard to 417 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: get them everything they need. They are indeed getting more. 418 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: This latest weapons package includes for the first time launchers 419 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: for vehicle mounted harpoon anti ship missiles. According to people 420 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: familiar with the matter talking with Bloomberg, Tony Capaco, the Pentagon, 421 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: Jennifer Jacobs at the White House reporting this, Denmark is 422 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: going to supply the missiles. The US package also includes 423 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: over threllion dollars for secure radios and related equipment, thermal 424 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: night vision optics, millions more for training. Mark Millie, the 425 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: of course, General Chair of the Joint Chiefs, describing the 426 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: slow grind that this has devolved into in the dun Buss. 427 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 1: This fight down on the don Buss has been going 428 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: on since sixty and April UH and the advances that 429 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: the Russians have made have been very slow, a very 430 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: tough slog, very severe battle of attrition, almost World War 431 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: One like UH, and the Russians have suffered a tremendous 432 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: amounts of casualties, almost World War One like. Let's bring 433 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: in Bill Rogio, senior fellow at the Foundation for the 434 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: Defense of Democra. He's an editor of the Long War Journal, 435 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: which has done a lot of reporting UH since the 436 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: start of the invasion. Bill welcome back. Comparing this to 437 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: World War One certainly draws images and horrible memories and 438 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: really just expresses the tough slog that Ukraine is in here. 439 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: You remember there was at one point we thought this 440 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: would be done in a couple of weeks. Then it 441 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: was a couple of months. This is showing no end 442 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: in sight. Yes, thanks for having me back. I actually 443 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: disagree with General Milly's assessment that this is like World 444 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: War One. What I think what he's describing there is 445 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: that trench warfare where the lines didn't move for a 446 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: significant portion, and that's not actually what's happening. The Russians 447 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: are advancing, it's just very very slow. Um. And he's 448 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: not mentioning the Ukrainian losses as well. There there are 449 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: now the Ukrainians are now saying they're losing one hundred 450 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: soldiers a day and taking up to a thousand wounded. 451 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: So this is a you know, the losses are mounting 452 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: on both sides, and one side has a lot more 453 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: to lose than the other, and that would be the Russians. 454 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, I just disagree with that assessment. I think 455 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: that might have been the assessment a month ago. But 456 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: it's just it's it seems very behind. So Russia is advancing, 457 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: then will this new weapons package slow them down? I 458 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: think the problem with this new weapons packages I'm hearing it, 459 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: it's not going to arrive in theater for weeks, if 460 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: not months, in totality. And I think this has been 461 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: a big problem with the Western effort to arm Ukraine. 462 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: It's it's been coming peace and coming into the country 463 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: piece meal. It's not arrived. Not enough of his is 464 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: arriving quick enough. In order to have an impact on 465 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: the battlefield, you need to get those weapons systems um 466 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: online and at the same time in order to be 467 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: able to affect this the tactical situation, and that's not 468 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: what we're seeing. We're seeing these the equipment roll in 469 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: piece at a time. And then there's another issue with 470 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: that is are the Ukrainians capable of handling these more 471 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: advanced weapons systems and then will they be able to 472 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: provide the ammunition for them as well. So the Ukrainians 473 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: are now since they're depleting their stocks to Soviet weaponry, 474 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: they're now becoming dependent on Western aid. And what happens 475 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: if the Western if the US and other countries suddenly 476 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: decide maybe it's not a good idea to keep providing weapons, 477 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: and maybe we need to look for a political solution. 478 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: We're a far distance from there, obviously. How about these 479 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: harpoon anti ship missiles the Ukraine was asking for help 480 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: in the Black Sea. I guess to your point weeks ago, Uh, 481 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: what do these bring if not a more pronounced naval war. 482 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: I think that this is one weapon system that can 483 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: make a very real difference, even if provided and limited numbers. 484 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: It can drive the Russian navy further off of the 485 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: Ukrainian coast through Russian The Russians control about two thirds 486 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: of the Black Sea coast and all the coasts of 487 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: the Sea of Azov, so in the port of a 488 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: city of Odessa that is under Ukrainian control, and Ukrainians 489 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,959 Speaker 1: are worrying about an amphibious assault and support of Russian 490 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: forces from the sea. These types of weapons systems can 491 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: target and hit Russian um warships at long range, but 492 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, in hundreds of miles, so the Russians are 493 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: gonna have to stand off from the coast. This is 494 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: one weapons system I think really can have an impact 495 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: in this But it's a defensive weapons. Does it unlock 496 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: the ports to to start moving grain. I don't believe 497 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: it will, because the Russians could just back off and 498 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: interdict sip ships for just further off the Ukrainian coast, 499 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: these ports are still mined um. The Ukrainians would have 500 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: to demine them, and then they would have to get 501 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: those ships past a Russian blockade, and then the Turks 502 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: would have to open up the Straits as well into 503 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: the Black Sea. When you mentioned the political solution that 504 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: it might be time to start having a more serious conversation, 505 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: do you believe that Ukraine cannot win this militarily. Yeah. 506 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: So what we were told, you know, in the very 507 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: beginning was Russia was going to have a swift victory. 508 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: That we were told Ukrainians are going to have a 509 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: have a victory, gonna drive the Russians. Now, I think 510 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: with the real um, the two scenarios that are more 511 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: likely here is some form of stalemate when the Russians 512 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: decided to stop advancing, and the other possibility that isn't 513 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: being discussed here is what happens if the Russians do 514 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: punch through in a significant way and get into more 515 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: open undefended ground. This is why the Ukrainians need to 516 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: be considering that possibility. Right now. Zelinski and the government 517 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: is talking about victory, but there's a dark side of 518 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: this that they have to consider. I don't know if 519 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: they are behind closed doors, but they you know, it's 520 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: as distasteful it is to everyone, their Ukrainians. They may 521 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: lose some, but they they they risk losing a lot 522 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: more um if if they if they're not able to 523 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: get a halt to the fighting. So maybe Henry Kissing 524 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: Drew was onto something. I mean, I dislike, uh, you know, 525 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: he is onto something and that the borders may not 526 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: look the same at the end of a political solution, 527 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: a diplomatic solution, Bill Roggio, I appreciate your in It's 528 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: come back and see us against soon Foundation for the 529 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: Defense of Democracies and look for the long ward journal 530 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: that Bill is editing. Right now. We'll reassemble the panel 531 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: for more on this. Next This is Bloomberg. You're listening 532 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg you sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 533 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: Pretty tough assessment of the situation in Ukraine from Bill Rojo, 534 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: and you do wonder where we're going to be here 535 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: in terms of public opinion, public sentiment, and the appetite 536 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: for more, say com August Labor Day, or we're gonna 537 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: be talking about this when we vote in November. It's 538 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: sure sounds like it. As we reassemble the panel now, 539 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: Jennie Schanzano is in studio in Washington, Bloomberg Politics contributor 540 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: and Democratic analyst, joined today by Adam Goodman. He's back 541 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: with US Republican strategist columnist partner Ballard Partners. It's great 542 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: to have both of you here. Genie. This doesn't sound 543 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: very good here when you consider the messaging we've heard 544 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: from Democrats and Republicans who have completely leaned into this 545 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: support for the war in Ukraine. Another billion dollars is 546 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: going out the door here, and the Chairman of the 547 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: Joint Chiefs is describing this. I know, Bill disagreed, but 548 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: not only as a war of attrition but something more 549 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: like World War One. How much time does President Biden 550 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,479 Speaker 1: have politically to continue funding this war? You know, with 551 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: the economy the way it is, it becomes really really 552 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: difficult for people to say you should keep funding you know, 553 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: twenty thirty billion, another billion here. Um. So as much 554 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: as people are supportive of Ukraine and want Ukraine to uh, 555 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, be able to push Russia back, they also 556 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: are really concerned about what's going on at home, so 557 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: you know, that becomes an issue. I think from a 558 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: broader perspective that the real challenge here is the challenge 559 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: we see in all proxy wars. They become I thought 560 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: Bill was so great, They become protracted to the point 561 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: often of stalemate. They are incredibly deadly for civilians and 562 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: you have to have a way out. But when you 563 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: keep sending in arms, you do increase the duration of 564 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: these conflicts, but the impact of the fighting on civilian 565 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: populations increases as well. And what is the end game 566 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: is the big question here? Where is that political diplomatic solution. 567 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: I think that's something that the President and the administration 568 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: are going to have to ask. In the mind of 569 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: the administration, what do they see as the endgame here? 570 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: Adam good, But if it's not obvious Ukraine can win 571 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: this militarily in the next couple of months, when does 572 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: the White House need to make that calculation? This is 573 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: very difficular. This is gonna sound maybe surprising. I I 574 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: really support uh and have supported the the administration and 575 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: and and all others and funding the Ukrainian effort because 576 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: I think if you we don't draw the line there, 577 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: there's some very scary consequences beyond that. With that set. 578 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: You know, we live at a time when inflations running 579 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: buck we have um gass over five dollars a gallon 580 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: bread and two dollars alow. People are kind of really 581 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: kind of freaking out about that. But Joe Biden, President 582 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 1: Biden needs to win. He needs to win somewhere. And 583 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: I will say that as it's difficult, if not impossible, 584 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: for him to get a win, a short term win 585 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: in this election cycle on inflation and other things. He 586 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: needs to find it somewhere else. And if he's gonna 587 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: throw caution to the winds and try to find somewhere 588 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: where he takes a gutty strong principle stand and funny 589 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: as it sounds, it maybe Ukraine. What's that stand though, 590 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: to to to keep more doing more or to seek 591 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: a diplomatic solution. Well, I think he has to do both. 592 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: You cannot just throw money at this problem. That's of 593 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: course going to be the Republicans planes against the Democrats. 594 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: Everything that in the world needs more money. No, that's 595 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: not true. We need better ideas. We need more ideas 596 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: that work. And if he were to do both to 597 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: fund this and to seek diplomatic solutions and to say, uh, 598 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: in very strong terms, this is why we're doing this. 599 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: Because you talk about the economy and all their ra 600 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: amplications already on our economy because of what's happening over there, 601 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: it's going to get worse. You. I want to make 602 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: sure it does. This is how real wars UH get 603 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: started and expand UH. In many cases mission creep right 604 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: when a when a general or an executive in this 605 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: particular case, Jeanie says, all right, then we're going for broke. 606 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: It's surge time in Ukraine or something like that, to 607 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: try to you know, close the curtains on this. Are 608 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: you concerned, Genie that happens. Yeah, I think we have 609 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: to be concerned. You know, the United States has been 610 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: providing and I have supported it rightly, so weapons to 611 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: the Ukraine, and there has been a promise that they 612 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: would not be shot over the border, because the United 613 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: States of course wants to maintain you know, the distance 614 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: from this. But you know, imagine that that happens and 615 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: and there is a response, then do we get drawn 616 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: into this thing? You know, to go back to the 617 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: proxy war idea, One reason that you engage in those 618 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,919 Speaker 1: as a superpower is because you can keep the hands off. 619 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: You can engage from Afar. You don't suffer the casualties 620 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: at home, you don't suffer the poor public opinion. But 621 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: we could easily get drawn into this thing if we're 622 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: not very careful. And again, you know, I think to 623 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: go back to Adam's point. You know, President Biden has 624 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: long made a case that the challenge of the twenty 625 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: one century is democracy versus autocracy. And one of his 626 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: stands on this was to take a stand against Russia 627 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: in this aggression against Ukraine. And he's right about that, 628 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: but he also, I think has to have an end 629 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: game here. What is the political and diplomatic solution. It's 630 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: not unlike what people asked in Afghanistan years ago to 631 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: U S presidents, what is the end game there? You 632 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: can't just go in, even in a proxy sense, and 633 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: not have an end game or a way out. And 634 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: that I think the White House needs to articulate in 635 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: a way that Americans can get behind and understand, Adam, 636 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: this is the conversation Vladimir Putin has been waiting for, 637 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: right and he knows that that patients wears thin very 638 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: quickly in a America, probably surprised by by how aggressive 639 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: our response was, but he knows that this conversation is inevitable. 640 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: Does Joe Biden know that? Um? I'm unsure. I don't 641 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: don't speak for the president, but I can tell you 642 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: he should, uh, Vadamir Putin has not lost this war. 643 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: He lost the quick win, he lost a quick win, 644 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: but he hasn't lost the war. And I think he's 645 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: probably looking at just what you suggested, Joe, which is 646 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: a war of attrition where we started to bear on 647 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: the nerds of the American public and the appetite of 648 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: American public for continuing to rally behind us. And in 649 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: terms of clarifying what the president is after, what his 650 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: end game is, uh, the genius point to I think 651 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: he has to do that like right now, like avertly 652 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: say this is where we're going and this is the 653 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 1: end game for us. Another spending bill and another problem 654 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: we have to take on in a world that seems 655 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: to be royal by turmoil as opposed to encourage by hope. 656 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: Incredible and a great conversation with our panel. If you're 657 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: just joining us, it's Bloomberg sound on. You should subscribe 658 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: to the podcast. Then you won't have to worry. As 659 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: we spend time with Genie and Adam, I'm Joe Matthew 660 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: in Washington. I want to ask you both while you 661 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: hear about some politics in Florida, because Elon Musk has 662 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 1: been the big story today around here in his effort 663 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,479 Speaker 1: to address the workforce at Twitter and is he gonna 664 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: buy it? Is he not going to buy it? But 665 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: it's actually creeped into politics this week by way of 666 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: Florida Governor Rhonda Santis. Uh. Interesting that we hear from 667 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: Elon Musk who says he might be a supporter here 668 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: Uh if he runs for president in Elon Musk says 669 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: he maybe on board. Well, de Santis was delighted, I 670 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: guess to get this support. Here was his reactions. So 671 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: what I would say, um, you know, I'm focused on two. 672 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: But with Elon Musk, what I would say is, you know, 673 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: I welcome support from African Americans. What can I say? Okay, 674 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: laughter from the crowd, And of course Elon Musk is 675 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: from South Africa. Uh. I guess he was trying to 676 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: keep it light there, Jeannie, But what was the point 677 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: of that? Is he trying to remind or suggest just 678 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: because you're from Africa, you're you're not a person of color? 679 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: Where are we going here? You know, I scratched. I 680 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: scratched my head for a moment there before it hit me. 681 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: And you know, I think, you know, look at Rond 682 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: De Santis is going to welcome the support of you know, 683 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: the wealthiest man in the world at this point, certainly 684 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,720 Speaker 1: and Elon Muski, you know, should he take over Twitter, 685 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: whether he does or not, he's you know, made this 686 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: case that there's going to be a massive red wave 687 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: this year that he leaning towards supporting De Santis. You know, 688 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: of course, to Santis is going to welcome that, and 689 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: so you know, if he can get that kind of 690 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: free media, why not take it? So, you know, I 691 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: have to say, thinking about it, is probably a good 692 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: line on to santiss partner, I say that grudgingly. Is 693 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: he seeing that, Adam because he doesn't have the port 694 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: of many African Americans. I can't speak for what the 695 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: governor said, but this is a very interesting comment because 696 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, we've seen the last couple of months what's 697 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: happened between the Governor of Florida and Disney where disneyse 698 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: numbers went from seventy seven favorable, fifteen unfavorable, too favorable, 699 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: forty unfavorable in five weeks. So and then everyone's saying, well, 700 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: that will really hurt the Governor of Florida because that 701 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: means business is what we wanted to come to Florida. 702 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: They really want to come to Florida for a lot 703 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: of reasons, and they're starting to understand the new politics. 704 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: The corporations of American of the world are understanding from 705 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: this governor in particular, that new the real politics of 706 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,959 Speaker 1: today is uh is different than what it was even 707 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: six months ago, and they don't get on board, or 708 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: more or worse, they try to challenge it and take 709 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: it on. I think, like Mickey Mouse is very sad 710 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: right now for what happened over the last couple of 711 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: months in Florida. I think the scantist is really doing that. 712 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: As far as the is comment about Els, I don't know. 713 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,839 Speaker 1: I don't know there's a joke or not. I hope, 714 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,399 Speaker 1: I hope it was received that way. You know, they'll 715 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: be playing this back if he of course ross but 716 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: is Genie, Is he a real contender for twenty four? 717 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: Are we're making too much out of this? Does it 718 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 1: depend on whether Trump runs? It does depend in part 719 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: on whether Trump runs. But he is absolutely I think 720 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: at least, you know, one of the top contenders on 721 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: the GOP side again if Trump doesn't win, And Adams 722 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,479 Speaker 1: should not be talking about Mickey Mouse as sad he's 723 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: always happy, Adam Um, But no, I think De Santis 724 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: is is you know, certainly he has proven himself um 725 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: in the governorship. And you know we should also mention 726 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: another thing that Elon Musk tweeted was he tweeted that 727 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: he voted for Mayra Flora's this, you know, huge win 728 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: for Republicans on the border of Texas. First time they've 729 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,959 Speaker 1: taken over that district in a hundred years, he said, 730 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: first time he's voted for a Republican. So, you know, 731 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: I think it is indicative of sort of this charge 732 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: he's leading, at least to people who following millions of 733 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: people on Twitter, does De Santis have to yield to 734 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: Trump in twenty four Adam, Um, that everyone's watching to 735 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 1: see what happens. I can tell you one thing, Rhonda 736 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: Santis is the alternative to don Donald Trump right now, 737 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: and everyone around the country is starting to understand why 738 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: and just if I don't mind be adding to the 739 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse comment from Genie, he is sad Genie for 740 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: one reason. He has stock and Disney too, as the 741 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: first stock I ever bought in my life as a 742 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: child was Disney. You got the certificate? And where they 743 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: still doing that? I guess I had the mouse ears 744 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: and everything. Joe Matthew, I'm sorry to tell you. I 745 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: think Mickey got it early on the options. Adam, I 746 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: don't know he's still doing okay, maybe I'm wrong. This 747 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: is a riot though. I do wonder where this ends 748 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: up in twenty four and how long you know? Donald 749 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: Trump is gonna drag this out till the bitter end, right, 750 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: which is gonna make life difficult for a guy like 751 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: the Santis Adam to figure out his plans. Well, here's 752 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: here's the bottom line, uh Trump. The Trump brand is 753 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: done very well, I think overall, and the Republican primaries overall, 754 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 1: he has had some loss of the overall has done well, 755 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: but the de Santis message is really resonant and it's fresh, 756 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: and that's what makes this very interesting in terms of 757 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: how it all shakes out for the nomination. Will Joe 758 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: Biden run against either of them? Jennie, you know, it's 759 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: so many Democrats, that's the that's the million dollar questioned. Yeah. 760 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: And if he decides not to, just when is the timing? 761 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: When does he tell people? Because that says a lot 762 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: about whether he supports Kamala Harris or not. Why this 763 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: is so much to figure out still, but that's why 764 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,359 Speaker 1: we have Genie and Adam Goodman. Thank you so much 765 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: for being back with us today on Bloomberg Sound on, 766 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: great panel and nice to see a Genie here in 767 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: the nation's capital. We'll do it again tomorrow on the 768 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics. Markets and traffic are on the way. 769 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg