Speaker 1: I think we have the best legal system.
Speaker 2: It's just the people that implement they get lost along
Speaker 2: the way and forget what their job really is. He
Speaker 2: just kept on trying to remind me that who was
Speaker 2: in authority, who was in control, and how easy it
Speaker 2: was for my body to be found in any alley
Speaker 2: of New York City.
Speaker 3: It's a tough prison when you have the guards going
Speaker 3: against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.
Speaker 1: They do that.
Speaker 2: They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home
Speaker 2: in eat spaghetti like it was nothing. And anybody that said, well,
Speaker 2: why would you confess to something that you didn't do?
Speaker 2: My question to them will be why wouldn't you confess
Speaker 2: when somebody's threatening to kill your life?
Speaker 1: You judge?
Speaker 4: He said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay.
Speaker 2: He said, well, the days you're lucky, day you're going home.
Speaker 4: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
Speaker 4: Jason Flomm. Today's guest is a larger than life character
Speaker 4: in every way. Anthony di Pippo.
Speaker 1: Anthony di Pippo went behind bars as a nineteen year
Speaker 1: old troublemaker, but insists he was never the killer. They
Speaker 1: said he was.
Speaker 3: After twenty years in prison for a crime the courts
Speaker 3: now say he did not commit.
Speaker 1: The jury and Putnam County found him not guilty in
Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety four rape and murder of twelve year
Speaker 1: old Josette Wright.
Speaker 4: This was his third trial for the same crime.
Speaker 1: The previous convictions were overturned, then on Tuesday an acquittal.
Speaker 1: The main witness against him was a former girlfriend who
Speaker 1: said she witnessed the attack, but the jury didn't buy.
Speaker 1: What we learned at this trial is that the eyewitness
Speaker 1: was incredible. In the third trial, the defense was allowed
Speaker 1: to suggest Howard Gombert is the real killer, seen with
Speaker 1: the victims shortly before her disappear yearans and currently in
Speaker 1: a Connecticut prison on sex assault charges. The Putnam County
Speaker 1: District Attorney, though, isn't backing down. He insists not guilty
Speaker 1: is not the same as innocent.
Speaker 4: He was freed six months ago. Anthony, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Great to be on the show. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 4: Anthony is a very interesting guy. I've gotten to know
Speaker 4: him well over the last several months since he's been
Speaker 4: out of prison. And when I say he's a larger
Speaker 4: than life character, what are you six' five almost six y. Six,
Speaker 4: yeah he looks like a gentle. Giant so just gregarious
Speaker 4: and funny and fun to be. Around and so it
Speaker 4: really belies the incredible saga that you've lived, through how
Speaker 4: you came out with your spirits so so strong and so,
Speaker 4: positive and it gives me a lot of joy just
Speaker 4: hanging around with. You So i'm glad to have you.
Speaker 3: Here, well thank. You you, KNOW i try to live
Speaker 3: in for the moment and for the future and not
Speaker 3: in the. PAST i did twenty years wrongfully full so
Speaker 3: accus of CRIMES i didn't. Commit and it's a privilege
Speaker 3: to be back in. Society you, know a lot of
Speaker 3: people in my situation don't get to make it.
Speaker 4: Here, yeah that's. True in, fact we'll get to. It
Speaker 4: the guy who was lawfully convicted with you is not
Speaker 4: here because he's still locked up for the same, crime
Speaker 4: which is crazy because you've been. Exonerated and let's go
Speaker 4: back to the time of the. CRIME i, mean you
Speaker 4: were still a, kid, right, right which is which makes
Speaker 4: it extra, tragic right because the fact that you lost those.
Speaker 4: Years so you grew up where.
Speaker 3: In, Carmel New, York, Carmon New.
Speaker 4: York nice, place pretty nice.
Speaker 3: Place it's picking fences and people who are just living.
Speaker 3: Life is one of the safest communities according to The
Speaker 3: state to live.
Speaker 4: In so you had a relatively happy childhood growing up In,
Speaker 4: carmel and things are going. Good you play, sports.
Speaker 3: You, KNOW i was involved in wrestling in, school AND
Speaker 3: i wasn't involved with, baseball football and all of. That
Speaker 3: but you, KNOW i was doing a lot of stuff
Speaker 3: that normal kids, don't AND i did come to an age,
Speaker 3: where you, KNOW i began experimenting with drugs AND i
Speaker 3: kind of went south on, everything and that kind of
Speaker 3: led me down the path to how the police started
Speaker 3: to focus in on me as a personal interest just
Speaker 3: because of WHAT i was. DOING i, mean we weren't
Speaker 3: out threatening people or robbing, people committing sexual assault, crimes
Speaker 3: but you, know we were using and selling, drugs and
Speaker 3: we were dressing up and we were playing the. Part you,
Speaker 3: know as the culture shows. That you, know when you're a,
Speaker 3: kid you kind of go certain. Way you're listening to rap,
Speaker 3: music listening to you easily. Influenced these influencers affected, me
Speaker 3: AND i left school.
Speaker 4: Sort of like a knock around. Guy but you weren't hurting.
Speaker 3: Anybody, no it wasn't my. GOAL i didn't wake up
Speaker 3: in the morning to, say, Oh i'm going to rape,
Speaker 3: somebody Or i'm going to go rob, somebody Or i'm gonna hurt.
Speaker 3: Somebody but at the same, time we were. Youths we
Speaker 3: were criminal. THINKERS i, mean it. Happens i'm not a
Speaker 3: criminal thinker. TODAY i like to think of myself as
Speaker 3: a mature human.
Speaker 4: Being many of us have had our transgressions at that.
Speaker 4: Age so things are going along pretty. Well you're having
Speaker 4: your different issues, whatever some of your teenage things that
Speaker 4: are going. On you got to get, through like a
Speaker 4: lot of. People and then a crazy thing happens in the,
Speaker 4: community which is a twelve year old girl was raped and. Murdered,
Speaker 4: right we're talking nineteen ninety four, Now, yes her name
Speaker 4: Was Josette, Right Josette, Right and this must have been
Speaker 4: big news in the community like.
Speaker 3: That it was huge. News it was in the. Newspapers
Speaker 3: everybody was talking about. It the entire police forces in
Speaker 3: the community got together and they were trying to solve this.
Speaker 4: Crime, well it took a long time to find.
Speaker 3: It, right thirteen. Months she was last seen In october
Speaker 3: of nineteen ninety, four and her skeletal remains were found
Speaker 3: In november nineteen ninety. Five and so they find this
Speaker 3: girl in the. Woods rope is attached to, her her
Speaker 3: hands were bound behind her, back the right leg was
Speaker 3: pulled up and the rope went around the neck and
Speaker 3: sort of a half hog tied. POSITION i don't want
Speaker 3: to be, graphic but the underwear was inside of her
Speaker 3: mouth and the bro was tied around her. Face and
Speaker 3: she was found, prone face, down and she decomposed in that.
Speaker 4: Position and this is where things start to get really, weird,
Speaker 4: right because now you have a, REAL i, Mean i'm
Speaker 4: getting the shills thinking about, it a really terrifying. Scenario.
Speaker 3: Right it's the most horrible you can imagine.
Speaker 4: Everybody's worst, NIGHTMARE a little, girl innocent found in having
Speaker 4: been tortured and. Killed and now the pressure, mounts right
Speaker 4: the cops they got a fin her who did, it
Speaker 4: but for a lot of, reasons it was.
Speaker 3: Re electioneer for the, sheriff and so everybody wanted this case.
Speaker 3: Solved so they started looking at, people and one of
Speaker 3: the people they were looking at was a guy Named Howard,
Speaker 3: gombert who had later had confessed that he committed this
Speaker 3: crime to several. Individuals she was last seen getting into
Speaker 3: his red car with The connecticut license. Plates, now the
Speaker 3: woman eye witness that seene this identified his photo out
Speaker 3: of a photo ray as if anybody number, two he
Speaker 3: was number. TWO i wasn't in the, photo, right AND
Speaker 3: i didn't drive a red. Car Howard gombert did drive
Speaker 3: a red car With connecticut. Plates so you have this
Speaker 3: girl getting in a red car fifteen minutes after she
Speaker 3: walks out of her house for the last, time which
Speaker 3: is a stone strow away from her. Home now she's
Speaker 3: not seen. Again the next time they find, her she's
Speaker 3: in the woods in this. Condition WHEN i went to,
Speaker 3: TRIAL i didn't know about this, Guy Howard. Gombert my
Speaker 3: attorney had previously represented him on a rape, charge so
Speaker 3: he received the pre trial discovery material that implicated his former,
Speaker 3: client this Guy Howard.
Speaker 4: Gombert it's not there for a, second. Right this is
Speaker 4: where things get really. Weird the fact is the attorney
Speaker 4: who was representing you had previously represented the guy who
Speaker 4: was the actual, suspect, correct which is totally, FORBIDDEN i
Speaker 4: mean an, unethical not, allowed whatever you want to call.
Speaker 4: It any lawyer knows that they can't do, that and in,
Speaker 4: fact he withheld information that he had that would have
Speaker 4: implicated his former client and ended up screwing in the
Speaker 4: most And i'm excusing a very nice word for, it
Speaker 4: screwing you his current. Client it's so backwards and so
Speaker 4: conflicted and so fucked, up honestly that people can't even
Speaker 4: imagine that this goes. On but it. Does but let's
Speaker 4: go back to how this, started, right because it started
Speaker 4: with guy Named.
Speaker 3: Gombret but we're doing the week they found her, remains
Speaker 3: so they got this eyewitness. Testimony that, week they also
Speaker 3: interviewed people That Howard gombert knew That they were saying
Speaker 3: he was trying to entice her into a babysitting, job
Speaker 3: and that he was flirting with her and he was
Speaker 3: acting strange around. Her so the cops are focusing on
Speaker 3: this Guy. Gombert but now we're driving along To Jersey.
Speaker 3: City we go to a. Rave LIKE i, said we
Speaker 3: were using and selling. Drugs we were coming back from
Speaker 3: this rave and we get pulled. Over, now while we
Speaker 3: were in the. Car president in the car was Me Dominic,
Speaker 3: neglia who was the later, informant And Andrew, kreevak who
Speaker 3: became my co. Defendant we're in this car and we're
Speaker 3: talking just candidly about they just found this girl in the.
Speaker 3: Woods so when we got, arrested Dominic neglia told the
Speaker 3: police that we might have information on that. Case so
Speaker 3: they whisked him away and they promised to treat him
Speaker 3: with some special treatment to get him off his drug
Speaker 3: charges or whatever if he would further give information upon
Speaker 3: us about what we were talking.
Speaker 4: About it was only, sixteen, right he was.
Speaker 3: Seventeen we were talking about basic newspaper. Knowledge we weren't talking,
Speaker 3: about you, know implied knowledge that we actually participated in his.
Speaker 3: Crime so then what happened from there was that Dominic
Speaker 3: negli was repeatedly pulled out of his, school pulled out
Speaker 3: of his, job until he got. Fired he worked at
Speaker 3: The olive garden until he was brought to the police
Speaker 3: station for several hours of, interrogation and this Detective, Castalo
Speaker 3: Patrick costalo and his other Detective William quick were telling
Speaker 3: him they have to get information against, me otherwise he's
Speaker 3: going to go to prison for his. Charges and they
Speaker 3: were paying him money and they were beating him. Up
Speaker 3: at the same. Time he, SAID i don't want to
Speaker 3: do this. Anymore he came to a point where he,
Speaker 3: says EVERYTHING i said was a. FABRICATION i don't want
Speaker 3: to do this. Anymore So, castaldo who was later indicted
Speaker 3: for this similar, conduct hit the guy in the head
Speaker 3: with the handcuffs and spin on. Him said you ain't
Speaker 3: got no other. Choice so he said. Fine he came
Speaker 3: back and, said all, right they wanted. WITNESSES i got
Speaker 3: your Witness Adam, Wilson Denise, rose And bill. McGregor supposedly
Speaker 3: this crime happened in the van and they were. There
Speaker 3: so the cops took this information and went To Denise
Speaker 3: rose and threatened her were life in prison for three.
Speaker 3: Weeks was your girlfriend, Right, yeah we were seeing each
Speaker 3: other on and, off and at the time shortly prior
Speaker 3: to her given a, statement we were seeing each. Other
Speaker 3: but THEN i broke up with, her which you, know
Speaker 3: it's not the cause of why she did this to,
Speaker 3: me but it probably contributed because some woman are, scorn you,
Speaker 3: know they get a certain feeling towards, something and so
Speaker 3: she became a witness against. Me, now remember WHAT i
Speaker 3: told you about how the body was tied. Up she
Speaker 3: said the girl was. Gagged their hands were tied in
Speaker 3: the front and the rope was tied to nothing. Else
Speaker 3: with the Forensic evinance's contrary to, that with the police
Speaker 3: were mistaken because the finger bones not to be graphic,
Speaker 3: here but the finger bones felt to the rib, cage
Speaker 3: so they wanted a mistaken impression the girl's hands were
Speaker 3: tied in the, front so they spoon fed this To Denise.
Speaker 3: Rose So Denise rose parrots, this so she swears that
Speaker 3: the hands were tied in the. Front, now if your
Speaker 3: hands are tied in the front and you're gagged in
Speaker 3: the mouth and you're being an attacked to whatever you're
Speaker 3: going to be able to, pull you reach up to
Speaker 3: him out to pull the gag out and bread if
Speaker 3: the theory of death is. Asphixiation but we were later
Speaker 3: able to find out that this, Guy Howard, gombert did
Speaker 3: this the ten other girls with the same type of
Speaker 3: bondage and.
Speaker 4: Stuff why did the, cops in your, opinion when they
Speaker 4: had the guy who turned out to be the right,
Speaker 4: guy This gomber, right wrong, guy, right however you want
Speaker 4: to talk about, It they had the actual, perpetrator, Right
Speaker 4: how did they go so far? Wrong they were interviewing,
Speaker 4: him they were interrogating. Him, right they had it. Right
Speaker 4: all they had to do WAS i, mean this thing
Speaker 4: pretty much came with, instructions, right you had the red,
Speaker 4: car you had the, witnesses you had and then ultimately
Speaker 4: it comes out that he's this serial. Predator. RIGHT i
Speaker 4: don't know if they had that information at that, time
Speaker 4: but why did they go off of?
Speaker 3: Him LIKE i, said Dominic neglia and then From Denise
Speaker 3: rose and went on To Adam, wilson, who since we, can't,
Speaker 3: did and Then bill, McGregor, who since we can't. Did,
Speaker 3: supposedly the, crime The deirya to crime was that we
Speaker 3: got so high in a van we played spin the
Speaker 3: bottle and the girl just wound up dead That andy
Speaker 3: attacked or stuffed their mouth with the underwear tight her
Speaker 3: hands in, front and then he went first for a
Speaker 3: minute and a, half and then SUPPOSEDLY i went first
Speaker 3: for a, minute and then supposedly we were supposed to
Speaker 3: dump the. Body now this is all a fabrication to begin,
Speaker 3: With but the people that were supposedly playing spin The,
Speaker 3: bottle who were falsely identified By Dominic, neglia had recanted.
Speaker 3: It So Adam wilson, says after twelve to fifteen hour
Speaker 3: interrogation With Dan, stevens the same guy that Cohorse Jeffrey,
Speaker 3: deskovic was using a light detective. Test and we all
Speaker 3: know That Jeffrey dskovic is innocent BECAUSE dna established a
Speaker 3: real killer and a real kill. Confess gave the same
Speaker 3: type of lie detective tests to my Friend Adam, wilson
Speaker 3: and he signed the paper but immediately. Recanted went just
Speaker 3: probation officer the next day said the story is. UNTRUE
Speaker 3: i was not in a. Van the cops threatened. Me
Speaker 3: they SAID i was going to be charged as an
Speaker 3: accomplished and accessory to murder AND i wouldn't be able
Speaker 3: to go. Home so he signed a statement and. Recanned
Speaker 3: the next. Day bill, McGregor he. Recanted it took him
Speaker 3: ten years to, recant but he. Recanted gave us a
Speaker 3: sworn After david that cops threatening with accessory or accomplished
Speaker 3: to murder unless he put me in a. Van and
Speaker 3: he said he never Met josette right in his, life
Speaker 3: and he said he doesn't know Who Denise rose was
Speaker 3: until ninety, six two years after the, crime when the
Speaker 3: police Introduced Denise rose to, him and they Had Denise
Speaker 3: rose try to spoon feed him the story while he's
Speaker 3: in the police, department because he only said he fell
Speaker 3: asleep during the crime and woke up at.
Speaker 4: Home this is making my head, hurt, Right so they Have, gombert,
Speaker 4: right and then this terrible sequence of events happens where
Speaker 4: they pull you guys over and then that turns into
Speaker 4: exactly what we just talked. About but then at the
Speaker 4: same time they must have, said all, right, well we're
Speaker 4: gonna let this Guy gombert go because we think we
Speaker 4: got a different. Lead is that basically how you understand?
Speaker 4: It because it's so.
Speaker 3: Weird he asked a critical, question how did the focus
Speaker 3: shift Off gombert to? Us So Dominic neglia in my,
Speaker 3: view was that? Shift is there anything more to? It
Speaker 3: were they Protecting? GOMBERT i don't. Know ALL i know
Speaker 3: is that guilt was shift to the actually innocent by the,
Speaker 3: police who either did so maliciously or by. Mistake but
Speaker 3: it was, done and we wound up spending the next
Speaker 3: twenty years And Andy stole in jail for crimes we didn't.
Speaker 3: COMMIT i don't know why the cops wanted us so,
Speaker 3: badly but it just. Happened it was a twenty year
Speaker 3: struggle to get out of, prison And god bless. Us
Speaker 3: i'm here and we're gonna Get andy.
Speaker 4: Out, yeah we're gonna get him. Out the question Is,
Speaker 4: gombert what happened to? Him?
Speaker 3: So CAN i just tell the story About Howard? Gombert so,
Speaker 3: yeah people can, understand all. Right Howard gombert is incarcerated
Speaker 3: now for taking an eight year old girl in, woods
Speaker 3: threatening her with. Death i'm not going to name names
Speaker 3: because these people are some of them are still. Living
Speaker 3: he threatens her with, death he sexual assaults. Her in
Speaker 3: the last eleven years of his, freedom he was charged
Speaker 3: four time series sex crimes on one girl he was
Speaker 3: abusing from when she was eight to. Eighteen would repeatedly
Speaker 3: tie her up and put the underwear in her mouth
Speaker 3: and tire her hands behind her back with various, things
Speaker 3: including the. Rope he was sixty four days prior to
Speaker 3: the girl that went. Missing in my, Case joe's that,
Speaker 3: Right and this is very critical right, here and this
Speaker 3: is HOW i Know gomber is, guilty is that he
Speaker 3: abducted his other, babysitter blonde, hair blue, eyes strikingly similar
Speaker 3: characteristics at knife. POINT a knife was also found at
Speaker 3: the crime. Scene he jumps out of the trees and
Speaker 3: abducts her a, knife point ties her hands behind her,
Speaker 3: back and repeatedly sexually Assaultser i'm not going to identify
Speaker 3: no names here. This but he put the underwear in her,
Speaker 3: mount he tied something around her. Face this is an
Speaker 3: identical modus opera and di with a, babysitter and he
Speaker 3: was Enticing jose at the. Babysit she. Quit she went
Speaker 3: to the police. Department while the police report that night
Speaker 3: documented all this, down documented. This she didn't Identify Howard
Speaker 3: gombert in the police report because later she said she was.
Speaker 3: Scared but she did call. Us we didn't know who she.
Speaker 3: Existed she did call us and, said this is what.
Speaker 3: Happened Howard gombert did this to. Me so she comes
Speaker 3: forward with. This the modus operandi is distinct and. Unique
Speaker 3: this wasn't an. Accident this wasn't somebody who created the
Speaker 3: girl around a gas station for two, hours like the prosecution,
Speaker 3: said for the entire views and pleasure of the town Of.
Speaker 3: Carmel this is somebody that jumped out of the darkness
Speaker 3: and fled back off into the. Night, NOW i just
Speaker 3: want to build a little bit more On Howard Gombert
Speaker 3: Howard gombert was also seen six months later With Robin
Speaker 3: murphy seventeen who's still, missing And Robin. Murphy they were
Speaker 3: seen at this laundry matt they were. Together years, later
Speaker 3: they would Find Robin murphy's underwear bearing HER dna eight
Speaker 3: billion to one odds that it was HER dna and
Speaker 3: a trophy suitcase maintained By Howard gombert with some underwear
Speaker 3: from his other rape. Victims her necklace what we believed
Speaker 3: to be her necklace was hanging from his rear view,
Speaker 3: mirror and when the cops arrested him for the last
Speaker 3: charge of the eight year, old they found this material
Speaker 3: and they tested. It now years go by after, that he's,
Speaker 3: incarcerated serving time in the McDougall Walker Correctional, facility where
Speaker 3: he proceeds to tell a fellow jail inmate that he
Speaker 3: had sex With josette right when she went, missing and
Speaker 3: that they'll never Find Robin murphy's, remains and that they
Speaker 3: have material With Robert MURPHY'S dna on, it and that
Speaker 3: he was trying to Entice josette the babysit and that
Speaker 3: he got her in the car with the babysitting. Lore
Speaker 3: now all these statements or declarations against penal interest made
Speaker 3: By Howard gombert in The Connecticut Correctional institution that are
Speaker 3: corroborated by proof independent of the statements, themselves to attest
Speaker 3: to the trustworthiness and reliability which culminated in my third
Speaker 3: reversal because of the second, charal the judge didn't allow
Speaker 3: any of this in you don't let the jury hear
Speaker 3: the Name Howard.
Speaker 4: Gombert so there's a number of things here that anybody
Speaker 4: who has any thread of decency and cares about, women
Speaker 4: the girls in this, case, right the idea is so
Speaker 4: fucking outrageous that this guy was allowed by the authorities
Speaker 4: to go free and went on to commit these unspeakable
Speaker 4: crimes against these young women over and over, again and
Speaker 4: it took them so long to figure it out when
Speaker 4: none of those things ever really needed to happen if
Speaker 4: they would have done it right the first, time forgetting
Speaker 4: for a moment the fact that you were robbed of
Speaker 4: the best years of your, life as Was. Krevak but
Speaker 4: that's what never ceases to blow me away about the
Speaker 4: idea that these law enforcement, people whether it's prosecutors or
Speaker 4: cops in some, cases or whatever it, is that they
Speaker 4: can sleep at night knowing that they're locking up the wrong,
Speaker 4: guy and especially in a case like, this and it's
Speaker 4: just a tragedy that you see here and. Go it
Speaker 4: could have been. Prevented it didn't have to. Happen none
Speaker 4: has had to. Happen they had the. GUY i, mean
Speaker 4: it wasn't like a big. Mystery they had the. GUYS i,
Speaker 4: MEAN i know you must have had, well you had
Speaker 4: twenty years to think about, this BUT i, mean you,
Speaker 4: know it's just it's SO i can't.
Speaker 3: You, KNOW i look at it like, this, Right i'm home.
Speaker 3: NOW i was victimized by not only the police, department
Speaker 3: but this, Guy Howard. GOMBERT i had served his prison.
Speaker 3: Time andy is serving his prison. Time, collectively it's forty
Speaker 3: one years in prison that we're doing for this guy
Speaker 3: as heinous. Individual some of these girls that he did
Speaker 3: this too with my. FRIENDS i don't know everybody that
Speaker 3: he did this, tool but some of them were my.
Speaker 3: Friends so we knew these girls growing. Up and to
Speaker 3: find out years later that this is what he. Did Even,
Speaker 3: JOSETTE i was friends with the. SISTERS i was friends
Speaker 3: with the. Family i'm at odds with the family because
Speaker 3: they were misled for so many. YEARS i have such
Speaker 3: sympathy for, them but you, KNOW i feel horrible that
Speaker 3: they feel a certain sort of. Way but you, know
Speaker 3: in certain, cases you know that some families don't accept
Speaker 3: it as easily as, others and some people want to
Speaker 3: know if some people don't.
Speaker 4: Well because let's think about it, too psychologically, speaking it's
Speaker 4: another terrible shock to them to find out that the
Speaker 4: person that they thought was the real perpetrator actually, wasn't
Speaker 4: and that all these years the real guy had been
Speaker 4: allowed to roam the streets and to pray on other.
Speaker 4: People so that's got to be another thing to have
Speaker 4: already gone through unbelievably terrifying traumatic experience and then have
Speaker 4: to process. THAT i could see where there there could
Speaker 4: just be a breakdown and they could be. Everybody it's
Speaker 4: hard for them TO i, MEAN i, LOOK i could
Speaker 4: SEE i can understand. It, INTELLECTUALLY i can never understand
Speaker 4: one that's ever not been through it could possibly really understand.
Speaker 4: It everything went wrong in your case typical of many wrongful.
Speaker 4: Convictions you had an incompetent defense. Attorney you had incentivized
Speaker 4: witnesses who lied on the, stand incentivized in a lot of, ways,
Speaker 4: Right because they were being literally given the carrot and the.
Speaker 4: Stick they were either being paid off or beaten up
Speaker 4: or threatened with being charged with. Murder that's a pretty strong. Incentive.
Speaker 4: Right so you got convicted in a separate trial from. Kreeback,
Speaker 4: right you both got. Convicted.
Speaker 3: Right krevac signed a nine page false confession after he
Speaker 3: was given a light detective test by the same Individual
Speaker 3: Daniel steeveers that Gave jeffrey Test vic his lightest detective
Speaker 3: test preceding his false, confession which later was proven false
Speaker 3: BECAUSE dna proved Established and.
Speaker 4: Let me just say for the audience in case some
Speaker 4: people haven't Heard jeffries' story on wrongful. Conviction jeffreys a
Speaker 4: guy who was wrongfully convicted at sixteen years old of
Speaker 4: rape and murdering a fifteen year old, girl and THE
Speaker 4: dna proved from the outset that he hadn't done. It
Speaker 4: and then on the back, end when he was finally
Speaker 4: released sixteen years, later A dna actually identified the real
Speaker 4: killer who. Confessed and we know that the guy that
Speaker 4: you're referring to now.
Speaker 3: Is the detective that took his false, confession gave him
Speaker 3: several cups of coffee had him under the table in
Speaker 3: a fetal. Position prior to given a, statement he gave
Speaker 3: my co Defendant Andrew, kreevack a lie detective test preceding
Speaker 3: his false.
Speaker 4: Confession the ironically about a live detective test is that
Speaker 4: the detective is allowed to lie about the lie detective.
Speaker 4: Test we should be given the fucking lie to tech
Speaker 4: a test to the. DETECTIVE i, mean it's it's, funny
Speaker 4: but it's. Not it's so weird to think that that
Speaker 4: they can lie in the process of trying to get
Speaker 4: you to confess to a. Crime they can lie to anything.
Speaker 4: Want they could say we got your, fingerprints they could
Speaker 4: say we have. Witnesses they could say we got blood
Speaker 4: OR dna or, this or you the light of technests you.
Speaker 4: Failed they say whatever you. Want and we know that
Speaker 4: in certain cases they've even been, able especially with a
Speaker 4: teenager which you, were Which jeffrey, Was they've been able
Speaker 4: in certain cases to convince people that they actually did
Speaker 4: do the crime that they didn't do. Right and so
Speaker 4: false confessions are really common in.
Speaker 3: Cases problematic, THOUGH i, mean of those cases that have
Speaker 3: been ESTABLISHED dna proof actually innocent involved some sort of.
Speaker 3: Confession one to, add of every four people that goes
Speaker 3: in the police department that says they did, it we
Speaker 3: have to assume they didn't do. It we have to
Speaker 3: look at it, closer because with that kind of, statistics
Speaker 3: that's demonstrating a tremendous flaw in the criminal justice. System
Speaker 3: so there has to be some sort of way to
Speaker 3: corroborate these. Things these things should be taped from the
Speaker 3: beginning to the, end not before the guy starts, confessing
Speaker 3: but from the minute they bringing a suspect into a
Speaker 3: police department for an, interrogation they should turn on a.
Speaker 3: Camera they should put a tape recorder. There and if
Speaker 3: he's going to say, anything everything that he, says let's be,
Speaker 3: recorded his, denials his, emissions. Everything let's just not start
Speaker 3: the tape record and when he starts confessing and then
Speaker 3: shut it off when you got him to sign a.
Speaker 4: Paper, right it's not okay to have this movie be
Speaker 4: edited by the detectives who are, conducted which is basically what. Happens,
Speaker 4: Right they get to choose and selectively show the parts
Speaker 4: that they want to build their. Case by the, way
Speaker 4: the good news is that this Week New York state
Speaker 4: passed the law that we've been fighting for so At
Speaker 4: The Ends project and other organizations been fighting for it
Speaker 4: for so many, years where now videotaping of interrogations is co.
Speaker 4: Mandatory AND i think that we have to pay respect
Speaker 4: to you and others who have gone through this because
Speaker 4: without you being out, there as you have done on many,
Speaker 4: occasions your story that probably wouldn't have gone through because
Speaker 4: the human story is what REALLY i think in many
Speaker 4: cases gets legislators to understand that these are changes that
Speaker 4: need to be made because these are things that happen
Speaker 4: to real, people, right real people like. YOU i want
Speaker 4: to get to the prison experience because it's so hard
Speaker 4: to even imagine what it would have been like for
Speaker 4: you as a teenager to be thrown into the situation
Speaker 4: where you're going to a maximum security prison as a
Speaker 4: convicted rapist and murderer of a twelve year old. Girl,
Speaker 4: yeah you're a, big, strong tough, guy but still you're
Speaker 4: in a place that's they eat people alive in, there
Speaker 4: especially people who are convicted of these type of. Crimes
Speaker 4: how did you deal with? THIS i, mean how could
Speaker 4: anybody deal with? That how do you? Hear? Like? HOW i,
Speaker 4: mean it's.
Speaker 3: Amazing survival is man's number one. INSTINCT i got to,
Speaker 3: PRISON i ain't gonna. LIE i was THAT i didn't
Speaker 3: know WHAT i was. Entering SO i arrived at The
Speaker 3: Schwungak Correctional, facility which serious things happen, there but it
Speaker 3: is so if they're compared to most, prisons except but
Speaker 3: for the fact they sent me INTO b, one which
Speaker 3: was housing for all the most dangerous people in the
Speaker 3: state that they have to keep a close eye. On
Speaker 3: so WHEN i arrived to, PRISON i didn't readily admit
Speaker 3: WHAT i was in prison. For when guys asked, ME
Speaker 3: i just blew it. Off, robbery murdered, this that and
Speaker 3: the other, thing AND i just started to go with the.
Speaker 3: Flow when guys started to catch window WHAT i was
Speaker 3: in jail, for then problems started to. Happen So i'm
Speaker 3: in a fight or a death. Situation what AM i gonna?
Speaker 3: Do there was. PRESSURE i politicked. MOSTLY i tried to
Speaker 3: avoid violence WHENEVER i, could and EVENTUALLY i, got you,
Speaker 3: know the attention to certain. Guys they saw my paperwork
Speaker 3: and they gave me a, shot and SO i started
Speaker 3: helping other guys. Out and in prison it's you, know there's,
Speaker 3: bloods there's God, bodies which is the five percenters, most
Speaker 3: there's The, Italians Latin, Kings there's all different sorts of.
Speaker 3: Sex SO i found my way in with, everybody AND
Speaker 3: i showed my paperwork and guys started sticking up for.
Speaker 3: Me and Plus i'm a big, guy so guys didn't
Speaker 3: want to just straight out, say you, KNOW i had
Speaker 3: to pay money or, this that and the other. Thing
Speaker 3: as opposed to my co defended who was recently cut
Speaker 3: two weeks. AGO i mean they cut him in the.
Speaker 3: Face the guards is pressing up on, Them they're waving
Speaker 3: the newspaper. Around he lost a recent, appeal and they're
Speaker 3: telling all the, inmates you know what he's in jail.
Speaker 3: FOR i was able to politic my way through it
Speaker 3: was it always a. Joy NOW i had, trouble and
Speaker 3: there was certain places where the guards were worse than
Speaker 3: the inmates.
Speaker 4: Because you were transferred around to different.
Speaker 3: Places, yeah and certain guards have morals and ethics that
Speaker 3: they think is the ethical duty to see to it
Speaker 3: that that we do hard time.
Speaker 4: Right and so obviously it is the hardest imaginable type
Speaker 4: of time because in this country we don't focus on
Speaker 4: rehabilitation as Other western countries do we focus on, punished
Speaker 4: WHICH i think is backwards. Too except in the maybe
Speaker 4: the most extreme, cases we could have a we could
Speaker 4: have an intelligent discussion about. That but and in, fact
Speaker 4: yours was an extreme case except you were. Innocent but
Speaker 4: that being, SAID i don't believe that senencing somebody twenty
Speaker 4: five years life in. Prison, okay we can say maybe
Speaker 4: that's an appropriate, sentence maybe it should be, longer maybe
Speaker 4: it should be, Shorter but sentencing them to be, tortured
Speaker 4: that's not what we do In. America that's not. Appropriate
Speaker 4: and the fact is that the way we treat people
Speaker 4: in our prison system effectively is. Torture AND i want
Speaker 4: to talk about privac because his story deserves to be
Speaker 4: heard and people need to get. Involved maybe they could
Speaker 4: write to, him if you tell people if he's interested
Speaker 4: in having, RIGHT.
Speaker 3: I always advocate for people to write to. Them from
Speaker 3: time to, TIME i put his address on the. INTERNET
Speaker 3: i send them. PICTURES i try to visit them WHEN i.
Speaker 3: Can it breaks my heart to see. HIM i bring
Speaker 3: him in high Spiritcy he's got a great. Team Professor Riddel,
Speaker 3: Bernard Jeffrey deskovic is behind. Him so he's got the
Speaker 3: support of our, community the innocence, community and we want
Speaker 3: to see him. Out we got his case into the
Speaker 3: appellate division now and we're waiting for a decision whether
Speaker 3: he can leave to. Appeal BECAUSE i was, acquitted so
Speaker 3: based on the same, proof which consists of some new,
Speaker 3: proof he should be entitled to the same shot THAT
Speaker 3: i was recently.
Speaker 4: Given it's so, strange, Right so you've been, acquitted the
Speaker 4: actual perpetrator has been, identified, arrested, convicted, Right so what
Speaker 4: possible reason could they have to Hold AND i don't
Speaker 4: know as much about his CASE i do about.
Speaker 3: Yours, Right, well it's the, same it's pretty much the,
Speaker 3: same except he's got a CONFESSION i do, not the false.
Speaker 3: CONFESSION i do. Not it's the political climate in the. COMMUNITY.
Speaker 3: A they place their own interest above the interest of,
Speaker 3: justice so if something, happens if their colleague does something,
Speaker 3: wrong they cover up for. IT. B they're worried about paying.
Speaker 3: Compensation the county was already sued By, Jeff they're being
Speaker 3: sued by other people right now to other. Cases so
Speaker 3: the local government wants to keep this swept under the
Speaker 3: rug for as long as. Possible For, however means they.
Speaker 3: Can so we're moving. Forward and if they don't want
Speaker 3: to accept, it if The putnam DA's office don't want
Speaker 3: to accept, It andy's actually, innocent notwithstanding my induction into
Speaker 3: The National registry Of Janna, rees notwithstanding the fact that
Speaker 3: the wrongful conviction community accepts me as it being actually.
Speaker 3: Innocent or we're just going to fight them too to
Speaker 3: nail and if they have to roll over and we
Speaker 3: just have to just keep on marching, through that's what's
Speaker 3: going to, happen Because i'm not going to tolerate these.
Speaker 3: People all they want to do is protect their own.
Speaker 3: Interests this isn't just they should accept. Responsibility they have their.
Speaker 4: Killer they have their, guy they know who it.
Speaker 3: Is THERE'S dna, proof there's a.
Speaker 4: Confession so what is Now Anthony and they're, thinking, now,
Speaker 4: well maybe he had something to do with. It, ALSO i,
Speaker 4: mean it doesn't make any. Sense this one is exactly a.
Speaker 4: MATCH i mean you don't have to be a skilled
Speaker 4: sleuth or detective Or kojak or whatever to figure this one, out.
Speaker 4: RIGHT i mean everything that you said leading up to
Speaker 4: this point about how all the other crimes, matched and
Speaker 4: THE dna and and Everything it's, like obviously it was
Speaker 4: this Sick Bastard, gombert right Who Howard gombri who did,
Speaker 4: It and so the fact that you're your co defendant
Speaker 4: is still rotting and being horribly abused and caught and
Speaker 4: everything else in. Prisons to keep everybody up at night
Speaker 4: until this guy is, free it doesn't make any logical.
Speaker 3: Sense AND i agree with, you AND i just want
Speaker 3: to build a little bit. More we extended the islive
Speaker 3: branch to the District attorney's. Office the prior district, Attorney Adam,
Speaker 3: levy he actually contacted The Attorney general's office to reinvestigate
Speaker 3: our case and was prepared to vacate my judgment in
Speaker 3: paperwork that he and my attorneys had drafted together with
Speaker 3: The Attorney general, involved based on proof that this guy
Speaker 3: costa local, horse perjured, testimony and based on proof That
Speaker 3: Howard gombert is the actual. Perpetrator but he lost the
Speaker 3: election to this new, Guy Bob, tendy who is in
Speaker 3: bed with The Putnam County, sheriff that's the elected official
Speaker 3: down there. Now so instead of continuing to accept this
Speaker 3: out of we could work. Together we could solve the.
Speaker 3: Crime you could be heroes by being accountable and, responsible
Speaker 3: and we're not going to forgive my language shit on.
Speaker 3: You when you let us. Out we're gonna big you
Speaker 3: up and we're going to try and help you look
Speaker 3: good and as long as you do the right thing for.
Speaker 3: Us he said to The Attorney, general you could Kick.
Speaker 3: ROCKS i don't need you another advocate for the, defendant
Speaker 3: and then proceeded to go through the. Trial now at this,
Speaker 3: POINT i made. BAIL i made a million dollars, bail
Speaker 3: So i'm, free But i'm on house. ARREST i had
Speaker 3: an ankle, bracelet And i'm sitting there And i'm still
Speaker 3: waiting to find out if this guy really wants to
Speaker 3: take a trial or. Not and he's all. In so
Speaker 3: he hires this, Guy Larry, glasser who worked on The
Speaker 3: Plausa gobera's, case the football. Star i'm not going to
Speaker 3: comment on WHAT i think of. Him so he comes.
Speaker 3: In he's all balls to the, wall hating us and
Speaker 3: saying all the foulest things about us and that we're
Speaker 3: definitely did it and there's no possibility we're, innocent and
Speaker 3: proceeds to go to. Trial NOW i go through the third.
Speaker 3: Trial this is the third TIME i got two. Reversals
Speaker 3: the first time was the conflict interest from the. Attorney
Speaker 3: in twy, eleven two thousand and, six The court Of
Speaker 3: appeals granted me and a new trial based on proof
Speaker 3: of The Howard gombert that it was suppressed from the retrial.
Speaker 3: Judge So i'm going to trial and we pick a
Speaker 3: jury and they're being horrible about. It and at the
Speaker 3: same time we did all from the other. Branch we
Speaker 3: go into the. Trial at the end of the. Trial
Speaker 3: the clusing the, TRIAL i Had Mark agniffelow who works
Speaker 3: For Ben brockman and, associates And Mark, baker who also
Speaker 3: works For Ben, brockman and he did appeal For John.
Speaker 3: Gotti great, attorneys superior. Attorneys they get the best. Hearts
Speaker 3: they came to the. Summer the whole, summer they were
Speaker 3: spending at my. House we were working a. Case we did.
Speaker 3: Everything So i'm waiting for the jury. Verdict now it
Speaker 3: was five. Hours i'm waiting for the jury, verdict AND i, think,
Speaker 3: Man i'm not going to win this BECAUSE i was
Speaker 3: beaten down my whole. Life you, KNOW i was a
Speaker 3: victim my whole. Life SO i just think that this
Speaker 3: is another motion THAT i have to go back to
Speaker 3: prison and come, back try and get it back and
Speaker 3: forth time the jury comes out with a not guilty.
Speaker 3: Verdict So i'm having an artit That jeffrey desk vickers
Speaker 3: and tears gives me a bit. Hugged i'm sitting in
Speaker 3: my heart's, pounding the lawyers are in, tears my family's in.
Speaker 3: TEARS i knew the moment that that was gonna. Happen
Speaker 3: the judge looked when he said he was about to
Speaker 3: read the. Verdict he looked towards the victim's family and,
Speaker 3: AGAIN i have great sympathy for, him and he, said
Speaker 3: there'll be no outburst in his. Court and this is
Speaker 3: before the jury guy stood. Up and this was like
Speaker 3: two three seconds, BEFORE i. Said when he looked over
Speaker 3: there and didn't look at, US i KNEW i was coming.
Speaker 3: Home AND i came home and it was the greatest
Speaker 3: day of my. LIFE i, MEAN i. WAS i lost
Speaker 3: bail during the period of TIME i went back to
Speaker 3: the jail for whatever. Reason but that, day that was
Speaker 3: the day THAT i uh THAT i made it home
Speaker 3: AND i was finally free of.
Speaker 4: This you're finally. Free it's bittersweet because you know as
Speaker 4: well as anybody that this poor Guy Andrew kreeback is
Speaker 4: as innocent as you. Are AND i know you're not
Speaker 4: gonna really BECAUSE i know the type of person that you.
Speaker 4: Are you're not really going to be able to experience
Speaker 4: the joy that you deserve until he's home as. Well
Speaker 4: but what was that like after you spent more than
Speaker 4: half your life in? Prison? Right eighteen years? Old when
Speaker 4: you went in thirty eight thirty, nine when you came.
Speaker 3: OUT i was forty forty twenty years.
Speaker 4: Right because the trial proceedings and everything. Else by the
Speaker 4: time you actually went to, prison you were, twenty, right
Speaker 4: arrested when you're. Eighteen you spent more than half your
Speaker 4: life in the, system and you come, Out and what
Speaker 4: is that?
Speaker 3: Like you walk?
Speaker 4: Out what does fresh air smell like when you have?
Speaker 4: Anxianity what does freedom feel? Like where do you? Go
Speaker 4: what was your first? Instinct did you want a? Milkshake
Speaker 4: what did you?
Speaker 3: Do you? KNOW i, MEAN i wanted what everybody else,
Speaker 3: wanted but it really wanted to spend time with my.
Speaker 3: Family there was a lot of shock because prison is
Speaker 3: drabb your bland colors and just, everything LIKE i went
Speaker 3: to bed and bath AND i just looked at the
Speaker 3: wall of toothpaste in, commissary you got three choices of.
Speaker 3: Toothpaste So i'm looking at the toothpaste on a, wall
Speaker 3: like what AM i? Doing how AM i supposed to make?
Speaker 3: Choices and so even just going to a gas station
Speaker 3: and being able to buy a, soda or seeing females
Speaker 3: walk around like in, prison you're around. MEN i mean
Speaker 3: they got some women. Guards but being able to talk to,
Speaker 3: girls to speak to the opposite, sex to be able
Speaker 3: to not be wearing state, greens not being barked at,
Speaker 3: orders you. Know but the, first the first most important
Speaker 3: thing THAT i found coming home was just being able
Speaker 3: to be with my family and appreciate the love and
Speaker 3: respect that they show me and give back and have
Speaker 3: a good, time have a good. Meal we went To Red.
Speaker 3: Lobster what did you? HAVE i had the ultimate. FEAST
Speaker 3: i just went every day And i've been having The
Speaker 3: ultimate feast Since i've been. Home i'm on diet, now
Speaker 3: no carbs at, all so no more. BREAD i went
Speaker 3: from two forty to two seventy five and like six.
Speaker 4: Months, well AND i want to go back to that
Speaker 4: because when we were together and we were hanging out
Speaker 4: In miami. Recently, coincidentally we ended up in the same.
Speaker 4: City we were having some. Dinner we're talking and among
Speaker 4: all the other horrible things about being in, prison AND
Speaker 4: i know you were just talking about the, food AND
Speaker 4: i know you don't get a, vegetable you don't get a,
Speaker 4: fruit you get basically sloping. There it really, IS i, mean,
Speaker 4: bland just terrible. Food some of it's. ROTTEN i, mean
Speaker 4: we know all those. Stories but the other thing that's
Speaker 4: unique to your. Case it makes me really amazed that
Speaker 4: you're walking around, upright is the idea that you're so
Speaker 4: big and the beds are too.
Speaker 3: Small oh, yeah, mine there's no bed that my feet
Speaker 3: didn't hang off fun OR i had to crunch up.
Speaker 4: SOMEHOW i, mean IT'S i.
Speaker 3: CAN'T i had back problems until the DAY i came.
Speaker 3: Home WHEN i came, home my back poms went straight.
Speaker 1: Away is not that.
Speaker 3: AMAZING i had disc up and down my back and
Speaker 3: NOW i haven't had one disc, pain one sharp pain
Speaker 3: Since i've been, home And i've been working. Out in,
Speaker 3: prison you live on a mat like it's one inch,
Speaker 3: thick and it's like you're living on a piece of.
Speaker 3: Steel and like you, said sometimes the walls don't fit
Speaker 3: a guy six,' six they fit a guy maybe, Six
Speaker 3: feet so you have to crunch up and you, have to,
Speaker 3: you know find. A way i.
Speaker 4: Slept, TOIME yeah i mean you got to just wake
Speaker 4: up with cramps in places that they don't even know,
Speaker 4: you HAVE places i can't. Even imagine ON top i
Speaker 4: SAID as i, TALK about, i mean on top of,
Speaker 4: the loneliness, the violence the lack of appropriate, physical contact all,
Speaker 4: of it it just adds up to just such a.
Speaker 4: Total NIGHTMARE but i want to go back to prison for.
Speaker 4: A second was there a worst time and was there?
Speaker 4: Anything positive was there one moment that you could. Think
Speaker 4: back was there a connection you made with somebody on.
Speaker 4: The inside was there some moment?
Speaker 3: Of HOPE was i mean there was BROTHERHOOD when i Was.
Speaker 3: In attica we were, living good we, were cooking we,
Speaker 3: had pans everybody. Had TVs there was a commaderat in
Speaker 3: the cell block where there was. No problem everybody KNEW
Speaker 3: who i was and everybody, respected me and there was
Speaker 3: a brotherhood. Between us but there was times where prison
Speaker 3: guards would come to myself because they heard out about
Speaker 3: antid dipipples in their jail and they decided to break
Speaker 3: on my things and threaten me, with that AND so
Speaker 3: i experienced that in certain Pay. Like sullivan it's a
Speaker 3: tough prison when you have the guards going against you
Speaker 3: because they are the biggest gang in. The prison when
Speaker 3: you have the guards going, against you you. Can't win
Speaker 3: so you have to walk on eggshells because anything. You
Speaker 3: do if you decide, One day i'm gonna fight the
Speaker 3: GUARDS because i don't like the pressure that they're putting,
Speaker 3: on me you're gonna get. More time they're gonna send you.
Speaker 3: To prison inside, of prison you're gonna go to, the
Speaker 3: box and then you're gonna get one to three or seven.
Speaker 3: More Years so i'm thinking to myself and to these
Speaker 3: TIMES that i was pressured that my family. Loves me
Speaker 3: they invested three million Dollars since i've been in costwrated
Speaker 3: three million dollars into my. CRIMINAL defense i would not
Speaker 3: be RESPECTFUL if i got caught up in some other
Speaker 3: thing where they get me OFF or i want to
Speaker 3: say the. Word off they prove them actually innocent for
Speaker 3: this CRIME and i do something now STUPID that i can't.
Speaker 3: Come home so at CERTAIN times i stayed in. MY
Speaker 3: cell i bit my FIST and i Just said i'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Eat this AND luckily i didn't come across any SITUATION
Speaker 3: where i had to do. More time but there were
Speaker 3: TIMES that i want to come out myself and. HURT
Speaker 3: something i just made sure those days were the DAYS
Speaker 3: that i want to lock IN because i love, MY
Speaker 3: family i. LOVE myself i want to.
Speaker 4: Go home is there a moment when you think back
Speaker 4: where you experienced any type of. POSITIVE thing, i mean
Speaker 4: there's a lot.
Speaker 3: Of ups. In prison you, become bipolar so you would have,
Speaker 3: severe depression which even if you're not bipolar as, a
Speaker 3: person you will experience some sort. Of it so there'll
Speaker 3: be great downs when you lose your APPEALS and i
Speaker 3: peeled more than. Twenty times when you lose your appeals
Speaker 3: and you have to go to the. Next step but
Speaker 3: then there's. Great hope if you know you're innocent and you're,
Speaker 3: getting closer you get, this high this you, floric High
Speaker 3: like i'm. Right there and then when, you win even
Speaker 3: if you're still, in prison when you just win leave.
Speaker 3: To appeal you don't even get the right, to appeal
Speaker 3: that brings. You up when certain people, write you like
Speaker 3: ex girlfriends or. Loved ones the girls want to come.
Speaker 3: See you and you've been down for, so long ups,
Speaker 3: in prison you live, in life so you just can't
Speaker 3: walk around for twenty years saying this is an. Awful
Speaker 3: experience i'm gonna, Hate myself i'm gonna hate everything. In
Speaker 3: it you got to try to make the most of what,
Speaker 3: you got and THAT'S what.
Speaker 4: I did that's a very, spiritual approach, very evolved, AND
Speaker 4: really i think for those of us who hear, you
Speaker 4: speak it's. Absolutely REMARKABLE and i think That the exoneries
Speaker 4: as a whole embody. That Attitude and i've heard some
Speaker 4: of the guys say and women say that for the
Speaker 4: people who weren't able to get to that, spiritual place
Speaker 4: if you want to, call, it that they're still stuck
Speaker 4: in there because they sort of gave. Up hope and,
Speaker 4: for you you. Kept fighting in a. Certain sense you.
Speaker 4: Were lucky, at me you can't call, yourself lucky but
Speaker 4: it WAS fortunately i.
Speaker 3: Had family, with money AND then i also put, in
Speaker 3: WORK so i was in the trenches with them the.
Speaker 4: Whole way when you, CAME out i almost want to trace.
Speaker 4: Those steps you, come out, you're euphoric you go into
Speaker 4: a car with. Your family, everyone's ecstatic so happy to
Speaker 4: have you back because it's a burden on the family
Speaker 4: too when someone's. Wrongfully convicted but it drags, everybody down
Speaker 4: anybody who, loves you, of, Course right so then do you?
Speaker 4: Drive away where'd you? Go first you went. HOME first
Speaker 4: i really.
Speaker 3: Didn't have an idea what we wanted. To Do so jeff,
Speaker 3: was there AND so i wanted to. Go eat nobody
Speaker 3: knew where we wanted to. Go eat there was about
Speaker 3: twenty of us that were there. That day some people
Speaker 3: didn't even think there was going to be a verdict
Speaker 3: that day and, went home one of my attorneys almost
Speaker 3: crashing on the side of. The road so, they said,
Speaker 3: you know what do you want. To Do so, jeff's
Speaker 3: like let's Go To. RED lobster i have waited to
Speaker 3: Go To red loopster for, so LONG so i just
Speaker 3: went on his suggestion and it. Was great we went,
Speaker 3: over there we had drinks and THEN while i. Was
Speaker 3: there this was one of the. Remarkable things was one
Speaker 3: of the guards that was taking me to trial during
Speaker 3: the first trial in ninety seven. Was there he's not a,
Speaker 3: guard anymore a Guy Named Orphuser. San sandria he came up,
Speaker 3: to me and, HE'S like i, want to, you know just.
Speaker 3: CONGRATULATE you i didn't know who, he was and This
Speaker 3: is i'm just out a hot hour and a half
Speaker 3: and he's shaking. My Head so, i'm like. Thank you you, Don't, remember,
Speaker 3: YEAH no i was taking you to the trial. BACK
Speaker 3: then i thought something was wrong. Back then let me
Speaker 3: buy you. A beer so one of, the guards one
Speaker 3: of the jailers that was taking me to my, original
Speaker 3: trial who felt something, was off gave me, a, big
Speaker 3: tall blue moved with a little orange, in IT and
Speaker 3: i bang that back and it was just. An. Experience
Speaker 3: man i'm very thankful.
Speaker 4: FOR him i trying to imagine how good lobster tastes
Speaker 4: after twenty years of. Terrible food how good does beer
Speaker 4: taste after twenty years of? No, Beer, so anthony there's
Speaker 4: a rather bizarre aspect of your post exoneration life that
Speaker 4: really just boggles. My mind in spite of all the
Speaker 4: other things you've been through which are, so terrible now
Speaker 4: there's another indignity that the state is throwing at you
Speaker 4: and you basically you can't get a. Driver's license is, that?
Speaker 3: Right RIGHT so i Go to Department Of motor vehicles
Speaker 3: and they, tell me you got. Outstanding TICKETS so i
Speaker 3: went to the town courthouse to go pay the. Tickets
Speaker 3: off so they're telling me these tickets amount to ten
Speaker 3: points on. My license these are tickets from. Ninety five
Speaker 3: the signal. Was speeding and, You know i'm not DEBATING
Speaker 3: whether i did these things. Or not, YOU know i
Speaker 3: was a dumb thinker as. A youth but at, this
Speaker 3: POINT now i come home, twenty years you figure it will.
Speaker 3: Be resolved and so now they're telling ME that i
Speaker 3: may have another additional year of. Suspended license, that's like,
Speaker 3: all right you were wrongfully convicted for, twenty years but
Speaker 3: here a matter, of fact on TOP of i have
Speaker 3: an additional year without a license to extend your sentence.
Speaker 4: OR whatever, i mean. It's crazy that's the statute of
Speaker 4: limitations that almost all crimes. EXCEPT murder i think rape is.
Speaker 4: TEN years i.
Speaker 3: Don't think traffic violations got statue. Of limitations it's, that.
Speaker 4: Believable right. IT'S unbelievable i mean that you're, coming on you're,
Speaker 4: going Wait but i've been locked up for. Twenty days,
Speaker 4: they like that's. All right it's like saying, to you,
Speaker 4: You know i'm don't care if the door, is locked you're, still,
Speaker 4: LATE right, i, mean like what are you. Talking about
Speaker 4: IT'S just, i mean at a, certain point the bureaucracy
Speaker 4: should grow a heart, And, say okay you, Know what
Speaker 4: we're going to make a little exception here for. This, Guy,
Speaker 4: okay so but that's not. The case so it must
Speaker 4: be an. Unbelievable feeling it's a lot of.
Speaker 3: Culture Shock so i'm. Me in i'm joining. My life
Speaker 3: at the, same TIME when i look back, ON it
Speaker 3: i feel guilty because there's so many people that deserve
Speaker 3: that that are still behind BARS that i haven't made.
Speaker 3: It home at the, SAME time i feel HAPPY and
Speaker 3: i enjoy the Things that i'm, enjoying NOW and i
Speaker 3: still got a lot more to Go because i'm still
Speaker 3: trying to. REINTEGRATE myself i always look BACK and, i
Speaker 3: SAY if i could just help, one person one person
Speaker 3: achieve their freedom that don't deserve to be. In prison
Speaker 3: in the back of, My mind i'm always thinking, about
Speaker 3: People and i'm sure you get it to, you know everybody,
Speaker 3: needs HELP and, I wish I wish i could. HELP
Speaker 3: everybody i just wish anybody that could BE reached i,
Speaker 3: could reach, you know im practical to think that you can.
Speaker 3: Do that but if you can help one person or,
Speaker 3: TWO people i think that benefits society as.
Speaker 4: A whole and that's an. Incredible message AND certainly i
Speaker 4: try to spend my days try to figure out, exactly,
Speaker 4: that right HOW can i get One more Anthony de,
Speaker 4: pippo out because it's just, an incredible incredible feeling to see,
Speaker 4: that transformation to see justice served after all, these years
Speaker 4: to see somebody like you get their life back. On track,
Speaker 4: YOU know i call it. SELFISH altruism i do it
Speaker 4: because it makes me. FEEL good i got.
Speaker 3: A great passion, for it and, you know it's. Very
Speaker 3: admirable the point you are in, your career you don't
Speaker 3: need to be, doing this but it's something that you
Speaker 3: do out of love and respect and trying to give
Speaker 3: back and find a solution to. A problem it's. VERY
Speaker 3: admirable i think your dad was involved, in this right
Speaker 3: With the. Innis's, project well.
Speaker 4: My dad was a supporter Of the. Innists project and,
Speaker 4: my dad who was my hero he. Still is he
Speaker 4: really instilled in my BROTHER and i a sense of
Speaker 4: right and wrong and an idea that what you do
Speaker 4: to make the world a better place defines you as,
Speaker 4: a person not what. You accomplish he, told us do
Speaker 4: whatever you want, to do try to be the best,
Speaker 4: at it but just make the world a. Better place,
Speaker 4: he goes that's the meaning. Of SUCCESS and i wanted
Speaker 4: to be a success in his EYES because i looked
Speaker 4: up to him. SO much i definitely credit him for
Speaker 4: giving me, this passion and he was. His, Firm actually
Speaker 4: scadden is a huge supporter Of the, inniss project donates
Speaker 4: thousands of pro, bono hours has been involved in some
Speaker 4: very important exonerations and they're, all IMPORTANT but i mean
Speaker 4: some that have actually driven, change systemically and so it's
Speaker 4: really full circle to be able to work in, this
Speaker 4: field especially with his spirit hanging over. And guiding it's,
Speaker 4: you know it's funny YOU said i don't need to be.
Speaker 4: DOING it i do need to be. DOING it, i
Speaker 4: mean this IS what i need to. Be doing this
Speaker 4: Is what i'm. Here For and i'm very lucky in
Speaker 4: a lot. Of Ways but i'm very lucky to be
Speaker 4: in a position to be able to help certain PEOPLE
Speaker 4: and i want to help as MANY as. I can
Speaker 4: and to get back, TO that i know a lot
Speaker 4: of people that are listening to you speak, right now
Speaker 4: are saying the. Same thing, they're saying HOW can? I
Speaker 4: help WHAT can? I do and let's start with the
Speaker 4: Case Of. ANDREW kreevac i mean what can? People do?
Speaker 3: All right so anybody wishing To Contact andrew kreevac may.
Speaker 4: Do So andrew kreeve please do right. TO him i
Speaker 4: know he'd love to hear. From you and it's number
Speaker 4: NINE seven a four two Three Six Wendy, correctional facility
Speaker 4: the we and de three zero Four Zero wendy Road,
Speaker 4: In Alden, new york one four zero. Zero four that's
Speaker 4: one one.
Speaker 3: Eighty seven and we'll put this address on the website
Speaker 3: for a Roll for. Conviction podcast so what can people
Speaker 3: do To Help? Andrew kreevak just offer your support and
Speaker 3: become Aware and i'll help. Raise awareness and then when
Speaker 3: his case comes up and the opposite side or the
Speaker 3: adversaries start, making comments then try to make. Comments back
Speaker 3: We Have. Attorneys forum he's being represented pro Bono By
Speaker 3: adele Bernard and Victor cepos so he's got a. Great Team,
Speaker 3: jeffrey deskovic of course we're. Behind him offer, moral support
Speaker 3: anything you, COULD do i think that will. Help us
Speaker 3: get us over the home, right NOW the da is being.
Speaker 3: Stubborn again they're placing their own interest above the interest,
Speaker 3: of justice the interest to justice for Not Only andrew kreevak,
Speaker 3: and myself but for the victims in, this matter jose
Speaker 3: at right and the, Other Girl, robin Murphy Who howard
Speaker 3: gombert also in my. View killed based ON what i told,
Speaker 3: you earlier there are ways you can help the actually.
Speaker 3: INNOCENT anyway i mean some, you know there's some places you,
Speaker 3: can donate like To The, innocence project To The Jeffrey,
Speaker 3: deskovic foundation but some people don't have the money. To
Speaker 3: donate and when you don't have the money, to donate
Speaker 3: you can always offer moral support and. Always stay it's, always.
Speaker 4: Corner and you can go to. The websites go To
Speaker 4: The Jeffrey deskovic foundation and learn about. Their work Go
Speaker 4: to innocenceproject. Dot org there's. Some instructions there are things
Speaker 4: you can do to. Get involved before, We, CLOSE anthony
Speaker 4: i always like, to ask is there anything else that
Speaker 4: you want to share with the audience from.
Speaker 3: Your, Experience well i'm trying to do my best to
Speaker 3: try to help people and trying to give back to
Speaker 3: the justice system to the wrongful. Conviction community i'm currently
Speaker 3: working With The Jeffrey deskovic foundation. Analyzing cases i'm trying
Speaker 3: to determine who we, could help. Who's reachable there's a
Speaker 3: lot of innocence people, in There but i'm trying to determine.
Speaker 3: Who's reachable at the, Same time i'm going AROUND and
Speaker 3: i encourage people to try to do the. Same thing i'm.
Speaker 3: Going around i'm. Lobbying lawmakers i'm with it can happen.
Speaker 3: To You Professor bennett gershman and you may have heard.
Speaker 3: Of him we're trying to pass a piece of legislation
Speaker 3: Creating a commission On A, prosecutorial conduct which would be
Speaker 3: an additional grievance committee for prosecutors who commit misconduct as
Speaker 3: a form. Of deterrence so prosecutors won't withhold evidence if
Speaker 3: they know that there's going to be a penalty aside
Speaker 3: from the, agreements committee or they won't knowingly use. Perjured
Speaker 3: testimony they try to create. Some balance, you know the
Speaker 3: system works on checks, and balances and so, You know i'm,
Speaker 3: Out there i'm trying. To lobby i'm trying to work
Speaker 3: if you can help anyway with The wrongful, conviction movement whether,
Speaker 3: it's don't, moral, support anything is. Greatly appreciated and there's
Speaker 3: other people that are in prison that deserve to. Come
Speaker 3: HOME if i could give my life to bring ten,
Speaker 3: PEOPLE home i probably would. Do, it guys just give
Speaker 3: me one. More day i'll go do have, some fun
Speaker 3: and then you could come from my soul and let
Speaker 3: ten other free people out that don't deserve to be.
Speaker 3: IN prison i would probably.
Speaker 4: Do that don't forget to give us a fantastic review
Speaker 4: wherever you get. Your podcasts it. Really Helps and i'm
Speaker 4: a proud donor To The innocence PROJECT and i really
Speaker 4: hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause
Speaker 4: and helping to prevent future. Wrongful convictions Go To innocence
Speaker 4: project dot org to learn how to donate and. Get
Speaker 4: involved i'd like to thank our, Production Team connor Hall And.
Speaker 4: Kevin wartis the music in the show is by THREE
Speaker 4: time oscar Nominated Composer. Jay ralph be sure to follow
Speaker 4: Us on instagram at Row And ful conviction And on
Speaker 4: Facebook At Rowful. Conviction Podcast wrongful Conviction With jason flahm
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