WEBVTT - Rufus Wainwright Sings with the Muses 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:03.640 This is Talia Schlanger and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:11.520 Thing from I Heart Radio. Hello all Line with fits 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:22.320 Garman fetching the jacket off these poses, such beautiful poses, 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:30.120 mats and feel like picking up roses. That's the absolutely 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.519 unmistakable voice of Rufus Waynewright. The song is Poses. It's 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.520 the title track from his second album. You could say 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:42.200 that musical craftsmanship was Waynewright's destiny. It's certainly in his DNA. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.720 He was born to Folk Royalty, son of singer songwriters 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.240 Loud and Wayne Wright the third and Kate McGarrigle. His sister, Martha, 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.640 is also a compelling musician. Rufus Waynewright was playing piano 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.440 by the time he was six, and touring as a 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.040 member of the McGarrigle sisters and family when he was 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.560 only their team, so it's no surprise that he broke 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.440 through early. Rolling Stone named Rufus Wayne Wright Best New 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.720 Artist for his self titled debut album. He went on 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.600 to record nine more studio albums and five live albums. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.240 He's won Juno Awards and been nominated for Grammy's. He's 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.000 been honored by GLAD and has poured his gifts into 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:40.520 numerous genres, from pop to standards and even opera. That's Oh, 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.440 Madame Saint Laen from Rufus's opera Prima Donna. He's also 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:49.120 an unabashed lover of theater and of the legendary Judy Garland. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:02:03.120 News like a bell that is ringing, That's almost like 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.080 being in love from rufus is two thousand and seven 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.280 live album Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall. The song's 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.120 Rufus performs are so wide ranging and demanding, I was 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.919 curious to hear how he prepares on show day. Yeah, 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.400 I just got off a fairly long European tour. Um 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.799 I would say, you know, especially when you're in Europe 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.680 and you're going, you know, to a different country every day, 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.680 that usually entails, you know, trying to get some sense 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.440 of where you are and maybe taking a walk, you know, 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:41.120 around the beautiful part of of the place that you're playing. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.280 But other than that, you know, I think what I 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.280 most enjoyed doing, just on a more kind of musical level, 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.840 is is, you know, I write songs all the time, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.240 and if I can get into a mode where I'm 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.040 writing backstage, I kind of get lost in that process. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.960 On one hand, and also it warms up my voice 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.560 because I'm just sort of, you know, singing repetitively. But 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.240 then also I have this strange thing where oftentimes I 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.720 will come up with an amazing lyric or what I 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.600 think is an amazing lyric right before I have to 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:18.200 go on stage. It's like a strange, little cosmic sort 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.760 of thing that happens, and so I'm always shocked, like, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.720 right before I have to, you know, jump onto the stage, 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.600 it's like melody will come or this lyric will come, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.600 and it's kind of you know, the muses playing tricks 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.520 on me a bit, So like here you go. Now 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.640 you can't work on this idea now people. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.200 it's it happens quite regularly. So wait, so what do 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.680 you do with it? Then? Right, very quickly, you know, 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.760 grab my phone and record it and and then run out. 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.480 But it's odd how that happens almost regularly. If if 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.120 I am writing before a show, I'm sort of knocked 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.440 out that you have the energy to write before a show. Yeah, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.080 And then often I'll finish the show and come back 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.720 and I'll continue writing. I Mean it's not always like that, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.160 but but I go through periods like that. And actually 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.960 my band are a little bit chocked. They're like this guy, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:12.680 just somebody turn them off, He's gonna disintegrate. It's kind 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.160 of unbelievable because performing is exhausting, it's so demanding, and 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.040 writing your sort of are you asking for energy from 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.279 a different part of yourself? Yeah, it's a it's a 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.839 different part of yourself. And then also it's my happy place, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.039 you know, what can I say? I mean, it's it's 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.760 sure beats you know, watching the news on the bus 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.800 to continue that cosmic journey through you know, lyrics and music. 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:40.719 I want to drill down a little bit more on 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.320 the writing process, Like you said, muses. Do you believe 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.320 they're a sort of spiritual component or an otherworldly component 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.679 two ideas dropping into your head? Yes? Yes, Well, speaking 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.599 with Talia, who of course is one of the muses, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.440 yeah no, I I I have a kind of witchy 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.520 you know, belief and inspiration and you know, coming up 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.159 with these ideas and characters that kind of speak to 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.240 you from another world and need to be um manifested 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.760 and so forth. I I strongly believe in that kind 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:16.800 of pagan ritual you know of summoning the music. Yes, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.760 what needs to be in place for you to be 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.600 able to summon them? Like, is there a part of 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.320 your life that you have to be active in order 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.800 for that connection to be there? You just have to ask, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.359 you know, you just have to summon them. Uh, and 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.360 it really doesn't take that long. I mean, I and 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.200 I'm as once again, I'm very lucky to have this 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.719 because because some artists don't. But I have often found 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.400 that if I really sit down and I say, look, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.000 I got to write this song, you know, send me 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:45.239 a message, I am usually rewarded pretty quickly. Uh. Maybe 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.280 it's not you know, a masterpiece or anything, but I 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.360 don't know. There's this. I have a very good relationship 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.400 with the creative forces. For some reason, I have good 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.960 karma or something. For instance, you know, my sister just 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.200 wrote a book, Martha Wayne Right. She wrote a book 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.920 about a sort of a memoir called I think it's 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.680 called Stories I Might Regret telling you or something, and 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.359 it's doing quite well. And I've written things occasionally that 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.039 is the complete opposite. If I have to write prose 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.240 and sit down and you know, compose a sort of story, 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.159 that's that that that's like pulling teeth for me. I'm 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.320 wondering also, like so they're there are these ideas that 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:23.920 come from wherever they come from, but then there's the 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.320 actual work, like the mechanics of sitting down and giving 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.360 physical form to an idea, which is like a massive 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.080 amount of work. Do you ever have a day where 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:35.920 you're like, and I don't want to do that. If 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:37.640 I have to do it, I do it. But it 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:42.160 isn't um, I don't know. I mean, I'm someone who 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.159 maybe because I you know, I have I've had, you know, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.800 rather reckless tendencies in the past. You know, I wanted 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.600 to go out and wanted to kind of lose myself 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:56.760 and you know, the dark recesses of of the world occasionally. Therefore, 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.719 I've always had a lot of projects on the go, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.920 whether it's music, nicles or operas or making records, and 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.599 that does also you know, that gets me out of 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.200 my head and just allows me you know, just just 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.680 it's it's it's wholesome in the end, keeps you out 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.000 of trouble. Yeah, it keeps me out of trouble. There 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.360 you go, that's fair. Fair, Well, I'm wondering, like the 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.560 you put out a new album a couple of years ago. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.200 And when I think about your evolution as a songwriter, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.480 I'm wondering how you think that you've changed as a 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.240 songwriter over time, maybe since you were engaging in some 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.559 of those dark recesses. Yeah, I mean, certainly every song 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.760 that I've written, I try to write it as if 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.120 I've never written a song before, you know. Um. But 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.000 then of course there are you know, themes that that 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.040 arise that I've worked with and and and there does 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.640 seem to be kind of types of songs that I 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.000 write that are in these compartments. I really try to 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.240 make it a blank slate at the outset. I think 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.720 when you do it so much and for so many 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.880 different types of objects, you do have to sort of, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.239 you know, you have to be able to get super 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.000 sent about it at the outset, and then then it 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.240 takes the form that it will take. I mean, if 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.200 I was a pop songwriter, you know, and that does exist, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.280 you know, there are especially in Los Angeles, I mean 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.560 there's whole teams of people who churn out these pop 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.440 hits and they had a real formula to it and 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.360 a real kind of like desire to know hit a 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.160 market and stuff that is a big job. I cannot 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.480 do that. Why is it, like, how is what you 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.600 are doing different than than what that is? Well, because 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.440 I'm I'm going you know, for me, it's a spiritual 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.959 I'm not saying that other people don't have a spiritual 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.520 connection to their songwriting, but mine is holy, so you 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.920 know in the sense that like I'm when I'm writing 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.559 a song, I'm not thinking about any other artist singing out. 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.000 I'm not thinking about you know, what's on the radio. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.720 I'm not thinking about what the kids want to hear 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.199 or what what's you know popular at the moment. It's 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.680 like totally devoid of anything like that. And I'm not 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.120 necess proud of this. It's just how I do it, 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.320 you know. But that's the journey that I take, and 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.400 people seem to react well to it. You know. Well, 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.000 it's kind of always been that weight. Like if I'm 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.160 as you're saying this, I'm thinking, put out your debut album, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.640 the biggest albums that you were, like the Miseducation of 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.200 Lauren Hill, like Hip Hop, R and B Soul, Mezzanine, 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.439 Massive Attack, the grunge era had just coming out. It 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.760 was all about people pretending that they weren't putting effort 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.120 into anything. Did you have any sense or any care 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.880 about how you were fitting in at that time? I 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:34.080 had no idea what was happening. On many levels, I 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.079 just wanted to write a really great song. I mean 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.360 I was, I was very and still am, you know, 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.960 dedicated to the classics of songwriting, whether it's you know, 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:47.960 the Classic American Songbook or you know German Leader or 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.920 Opera and or or you know, great American musicals, and 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.920 I just wanted to write something that was kind of arresting, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.640 as as those works can be, you know, and a 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.079 lot of that music, you know, when like Nirvana came 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:02.880 out and stuff. I just it's not that I didn't 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.960 like it or or that I didn't get it. I 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.200 just didn't. It just wasn't in my per view, which 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.000 is funny because I ended up going to l A 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.400 and hanging out with Courtney Love, like I knew all 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.120 those people. I was in that scene. But I was 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.720 in my own little bubble, doing my own little thing, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.160 and thankfully I had the I had the support to 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.120 do that with DreamWorks Records and stuff. So, yeah, you 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.200 said that you wanted to write the great song or 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:31.800 that you were on the hunt for something. Was there 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:33.600 the first song that came out of you that you 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.880 were like, Okay, I can do this well. I mean, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.839 the one, the one that's most sort of seminal is 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.360 this song Beauty Mark, that I wrote about my mother 0:10:42.040 --> 0:11:05.440 early early on, and it's on my first album because 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.319 I had written a bunch of songs that we're kind 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.240 of all over the place, and my mother told me that, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:13.880 she said, you know you, she said, you gotta really 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:15.560 tighten this up a little bit here, because I don't 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.400 think we're gonna want to listen to this too much. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:19.680 We should say, like, she was an amazing folk singer. 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:23.080 Kate mcgarrig old. Yeah, she was, yeah, yeah, legendary. She 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.160 wasn't just like some moms like no, no, no, no, 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.640 she was. She was very um intent on really, you know, 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.000 giving me a solid education, and therefore was pretty critical 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.040 of both my sister and I. But so I wrote 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:40.000 Beauty Mark as a kind of reply to her, and uh, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.080 and she loved that song, and she kind of liked 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.760 every song after that pretty much except for a few exceptions. 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.160 And she'd tell you those, oh yeah, she would let 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.880 right now, So you write that song early on, and 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.200 you like sort of mentioned that when you were writing 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:58.960 at that time in your early career, there was a 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.720 big lifestyle that was going along with it, partying, having 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.360 a lot of fun. How did you balance that with 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.560 the actual craft of like sitting down at the piano 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.200 and doing what you were doing. Yeah, yeah, well I 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.920 just it all came together, you know, it was all 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.680 done at the same time. I mean, I my great 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.360 saving grace, and it is true, is that I was 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.360 never able to really perform when I was screwed up, 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.360 like I like, drinking and singing on stage just did 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.360 not work for me. I immediately, you know, my tuning 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:33.400 faltered and my piano playing I'd make mistakes and stuff. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.640 So so I had to have a line and sort 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.960 of a boarder there that that that I was thankfully 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.960 I had. But but when I wrote and stuff at home, 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:43.680 you know, I could do whatever the hell I wanted, 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.920 you know, and I very much, you know, kind of 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.360 would go to a party and then get back at 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.040 dawn and then you know, write more and beat market 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.600 such a raw song, as so many of your songs are. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.600 I'm wondering, like, as a writer, was it always comfortable 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.360 for you to go to a place like that and 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:05.080 write with that much honesty. Yeah, yeah, no, it was 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:09.360 look I had there was never any choice otherwise. I mean, 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.000 and that and that's more of a family tradition. I mean, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.800 if you look at my dad's music loud Wayne right, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.880 or my mother or my sister Martha. I mean, we've 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:23.720 always imbued our material with you know, blood and for 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.240 better or for worse. I mean, it's been somewhat of 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:31.160 a rocky road, but that was begun by our parents. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.360 So yeah, we're just continuing a tradition, and um, it's 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.240 working for the time being. I don't know if our 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.959 kids will we'll go into music and do that as well, 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:46.160 but who knows. I read somewhere that your parents put 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.240 you to sleep like in a guitar case when you 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.480 were a baby. Is that actually folk fairy tale or 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.800 is that true? That's true? And I have a photograph. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.440 I have a photograph. You know, my mother was in 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.320 the hospital, uh you know, she had me and then 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.360 they were driving her home, but before going home, she 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.240 wanted to see my dad in the studio and there 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.360 was no crib there, so they put me in the 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.920 guitar case and that was my first ever crib outside 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.080 of the hospital. It's a guitar case. Yeah, and your parents, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.880 I understand split when you were three years old three 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.640 What did you understand about it at that time or 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.080 how did they explain it to you? I didn't. I 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.280 didn't really understand it at all. But the one sort 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.560 of memory that I have that that stuck with me 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.280 was wondering why they were putting the dining room table 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.880 in the back of a truck like that didn't really 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.440 make much sense to me. But yeah, so I remember that, 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.000 And yeah, I know it was. It was a very 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.360 tough divorce for everybody, for both my parents and also 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.200 for my sister and I. And and we do write 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.720 about it, you know, we do. We do communicate these stories. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.200 I think people appreciate that. But yet, as I said, 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.200 it comes at a price as well, because you know, 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.080 the lines can be blurred between you know, the stage 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:01.840 and the kitchen. That's sure. I mean, it kind of 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.000 blows my mind to think about having a mom who's 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.360 working at communicating her feelings about your family life on 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.320 stage two audiences while you're growing up in it, Like, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:13.760 can you give me a sense of what it was 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:18.240 like to grow up with a songwriter for both parents. Yeah, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.600 I mean it was there's just a language that we 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.880 could all, you know, understand, and that was wonderful to 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.400 communicate in and look in the end of the day, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.360 it got our feelings out and we were able to 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.680 be passionate and sort of loving and you know, exciting 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.840 people because you know, we had this, we had good lighting. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:42.400 How did you fall in love with musicals? Like? Your 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.480 parents were both folk musicians, So where did the love 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.840 of musicals come from? I would visit my dad and 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:52.440 we would go see musicals and York New York, New York, 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.720 and we go to Annie and Barnum and Cats and stuff. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.080 So it was really through him. And then I developed 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:04.560 a real passion for Cole Porter especially and those very 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.640 famous the El Fitzgerald records when she would do the 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.640 songbook albums, you know, classic. Yeah, and so I would 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.640 listen to those songs, which were often from musical shows 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.320 and and uh and then do a little research here 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.520 and there. I would think that somebody like with with 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.480 a love of musicals and theater and all that, and 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:28.040 with also the widely emotional voice that you have with 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.320 so much range to it, could have thought about pursuing 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.720 theater as a curer. Did you ever think about that? Hm? 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.520 I mean I didn't want. I wanted to write the material, 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.120 But I am writing. I mean, I've written a musical 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:43.440 now that will actually be uh premiered um in about 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.680 a year or so. I can't really say anything about it, 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:49.160 but yes, I am definitely aiming to everything about I know, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.000 I know, I know, and and it's and it's got 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.040 a great story, and there's it's with a great sort 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.040 of team and and you will know more about it. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.240 But I mean, certainly now, you know, with the Udie 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.119 Garland shows celebrating her one birthday and and singing a 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.920 lot of those you know, classic musical songs, and and 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:12.200 and and also I mean with her especially um, I 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.280 was like just head over heels in love with movie musicals. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.080 You know. For me, I didn't want to be on 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.920 you know, the stage necessarily in a musical. I wanted 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.040 to be on a sound stage, you know, with you know, 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.720 thousands of people surrounding me and you know, fountains and 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.879 thunderclaps and everything. So that was sort of more what 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.000 I was susceptible to. Well, there's the glamor of it, 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:36.879 but there's also I think the music, Like what was 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.600 it about the music that Judy Garland saying that made 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.320 you want to take it on? Yeah? Well, I think 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.919 with her especially, it was this insane and I'm speaking 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.359 about her her movies now and the musicals, this insane 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.240 kind of laser beam of strength that where all of 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.720 these elements suddenly were mushed together, you know, whether it 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.280 was her incredible singing, an incredible song, the great lighting, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.280 I mean the light, even though I say lighting in 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.199 a kind of funny way though you can't, but that 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.560 Hollywood lighting was just so other worldly, and then the 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.520 great costumes and the great choreographer, and it would all 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.359 come together in this sort of blinding ray of light 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.520 and just devastate anyone who even came within, you know, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.280 an inch of it. So I was very seduced by that. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.520 And of course the music was really top of the list. 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.919 I mean, I mean in the sense that the songwriters 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.000 at that time, and a lot of them did write musicals, 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.240 you know, Irving Berlin and and uh Coal Porter and 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.600 all of those guys. Is that they they were really 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.800 celebrated as these uh they were considered gods in a 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.840 lot of ways. And when I say God's I mean 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.320 I mean like gods, gods and goddesses more Greek style 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.159 to what everything, what everybody did. It had to be 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.119 just so seductive and so powerful and so kind of 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.560 just undeniable in a lot of ways. And there was 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.520 a sense of occasion, Like the was a sense of 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.280 occasion about everything that I think, Yah and I think 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.240 to be on stage or to be on this fell 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:20.520 on screen, you know, you had to be larger than life. Musician, 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:25.560 Rufus wayne right. If you love conversations with powerful songwriters, 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.480 check out our episode with Carly Simon. I had developed 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.000 my own voice, but with so many influences that I 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.720 hadn't I hadn't cut myself off from my influences and 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.760 made a whole me. The umbilical cord was still attached 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.880 to Odetta, was still attached to Annie Ross of Memberson Wis, 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:48.000 and Ross still attached to Pete Seeger To to the 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.040 various influences, I mean, I still have trouble with that. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.440 Here the rest of the conversation with Carly Simon at 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.000 Here's the thing dot Org. After the break, Rufus shares 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.440 the special something it takes to do justice to Judy Garland. 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.760 I'm Talia Schlanger and you're listening to here's the thing 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:51.320 wosther yea? And that is of course somewhere over the 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.560 Rainbow from Rufus, Wayne writes new live album Rufus Does 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:00.399 Judy at Capital Studios. Wayne writes music often features big, 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:05.879 luscious instrumentation, which makes this gorgeous a cappella moment particularly unique. 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.800 There's a story behind that, and what it is is that, 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.520 I mean, that was the song that my mother and 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.919 I did together since I was a very young child. 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.800 And when I first did the big you know, tribute 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.840 shows at Carnegie Hall and at the Palladium in London. 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.600 You know, we had a big orchestra and everything, and 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.920 I for that number particularly, I had my mother come 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.000 out and accompanied me just for the beginning, you know, 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.439 and then the strings would come in and the band 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.879 and it would become more like the original. But there 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:38.879 was just sort of this nice moment of with the 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:40.639 two of us. And then sadly, you know, she passed 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.480 away from cancer at sixty three, and so it's in 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.720 a lot of ways that's sort of me, you know, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.880 that's her, me and her together. Oh do you mean 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.200 that you're sort of like marking her absence by having 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:57.399 without her? Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, now that's what 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:02.120 it is. Yeah, yeah, you can feel that, Like I mean, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.840 I think I know many people who have emotional connections 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.520 to that song for whatever reason. But you can really 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.560 feel the presence of something. So yeah, now that song, 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.960 I mean, look, it's been done eight billion times and 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:18.160 eight billion different ways, but it's it's amazing how powerful 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:20.840 it is and how you know, how it just it's 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.480 the gifts that keeps giving for sure. Did you perform 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.480 this album for an audience of one for Renee's Elwigger? Yes? Yes, 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.440 So what's what's it like to perform just for one? 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.359 This was a COVID measure, you know, Okay, okay, you 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.480 know it was. It stemmed from a kind of a 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.640 series of shot concerts that I did from my living 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:47.159 room during COVID when all my tours were canceled and 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:48.960 I just did shows here and we would have like 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.359 a celebrity guest for each one, and so it was 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.840 part of that that series. And did Renee win a raffle? 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:01.399 Is that how she ended upon Renee? We won the 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.240 raffle and Renee arrived. Really actually we did because we 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:06.040 would ask a lot of people and some people could, 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:08.520 some people couldn't, some people didn't want to, you know, 0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.120 be anywhere during COVID. So it was we were very 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.239 fortunate to have her. And yeah, I know she was 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.480 totally gracious and I think really enjoyed it a lot. 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.879 And uh, she was going to maybe sing at one point, 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.040