Speaker 1: This is Talia Schlanger and you're listening to Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing from I Heart Radio. Hello all Line with fits
Speaker 1: Garman fetching the jacket off these poses, such beautiful poses,
Speaker 1: mats and feel like picking up roses. That's the absolutely
Speaker 1: unmistakable voice of Rufus Waynewright. The song is Poses. It's
Speaker 1: the title track from his second album. You could say
Speaker 1: that musical craftsmanship was Waynewright's destiny. It's certainly in his DNA.
Speaker 1: He was born to Folk Royalty, son of singer songwriters
Speaker 1: Loud and Wayne Wright the third and Kate McGarrigle. His sister, Martha,
Speaker 1: is also a compelling musician. Rufus Waynewright was playing piano
Speaker 1: by the time he was six, and touring as a
Speaker 1: member of the McGarrigle sisters and family when he was
Speaker 1: only their team, so it's no surprise that he broke
Speaker 1: through early. Rolling Stone named Rufus Wayne Wright Best New
Speaker 1: Artist for his self titled debut album. He went on
Speaker 1: to record nine more studio albums and five live albums.
Speaker 1: He's won Juno Awards and been nominated for Grammy's. He's
Speaker 1: been honored by GLAD and has poured his gifts into
Speaker 1: numerous genres, from pop to standards and even opera. That's Oh,
Speaker 1: Madame Saint Laen from Rufus's opera Prima Donna. He's also
Speaker 1: an unabashed lover of theater and of the legendary Judy Garland.
Speaker 1: News like a bell that is ringing, That's almost like
Speaker 1: being in love from rufus is two thousand and seven
Speaker 1: live album Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall. The song's
Speaker 1: Rufus performs are so wide ranging and demanding, I was
Speaker 1: curious to hear how he prepares on show day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just got off a fairly long European tour. Um
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, especially when you're in Europe
Speaker 1: and you're going, you know, to a different country every day,
Speaker 1: that usually entails, you know, trying to get some sense
Speaker 1: of where you are and maybe taking a walk, you know,
Speaker 1: around the beautiful part of of the place that you're playing.
Speaker 1: But other than that, you know, I think what I
Speaker 1: most enjoyed doing, just on a more kind of musical level,
Speaker 1: is is, you know, I write songs all the time,
Speaker 1: and if I can get into a mode where I'm
Speaker 1: writing backstage, I kind of get lost in that process.
Speaker 1: On one hand, and also it warms up my voice
Speaker 1: because I'm just sort of, you know, singing repetitively. But
Speaker 1: then also I have this strange thing where oftentimes I
Speaker 1: will come up with an amazing lyric or what I
Speaker 1: think is an amazing lyric right before I have to
Speaker 1: go on stage. It's like a strange, little cosmic sort
Speaker 1: of thing that happens, and so I'm always shocked, like,
Speaker 1: right before I have to, you know, jump onto the stage,
Speaker 1: it's like melody will come or this lyric will come,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of you know, the muses playing tricks
Speaker 1: on me a bit, So like here you go. Now
Speaker 1: you can't work on this idea now people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it happens quite regularly. So wait, so what do
Speaker 1: you do with it? Then? Right, very quickly, you know,
Speaker 1: grab my phone and record it and and then run out.
Speaker 1: But it's odd how that happens almost regularly. If if
Speaker 1: I am writing before a show, I'm sort of knocked
Speaker 1: out that you have the energy to write before a show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then often I'll finish the show and come back
Speaker 1: and I'll continue writing. I Mean it's not always like that,
Speaker 1: but but I go through periods like that. And actually
Speaker 1: my band are a little bit chocked. They're like this guy,
Speaker 1: just somebody turn them off, He's gonna disintegrate. It's kind
Speaker 1: of unbelievable because performing is exhausting, it's so demanding, and
Speaker 1: writing your sort of are you asking for energy from
Speaker 1: a different part of yourself? Yeah, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: different part of yourself. And then also it's my happy place,
Speaker 1: you know, what can I say? I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: sure beats you know, watching the news on the bus
Speaker 1: to continue that cosmic journey through you know, lyrics and music.
Speaker 1: I want to drill down a little bit more on
Speaker 1: the writing process, Like you said, muses. Do you believe
Speaker 1: they're a sort of spiritual component or an otherworldly component
Speaker 1: two ideas dropping into your head? Yes? Yes, Well, speaking
Speaker 1: with Talia, who of course is one of the muses,
Speaker 1: yeah no, I I I have a kind of witchy
Speaker 1: you know, belief and inspiration and you know, coming up
Speaker 1: with these ideas and characters that kind of speak to
Speaker 1: you from another world and need to be um manifested
Speaker 1: and so forth. I I strongly believe in that kind
Speaker 1: of pagan ritual you know of summoning the music. Yes,
Speaker 1: what needs to be in place for you to be
Speaker 1: able to summon them? Like, is there a part of
Speaker 1: your life that you have to be active in order
Speaker 1: for that connection to be there? You just have to ask,
Speaker 1: you know, you just have to summon them. Uh, and
Speaker 1: it really doesn't take that long. I mean, I and
Speaker 1: I'm as once again, I'm very lucky to have this
Speaker 1: because because some artists don't. But I have often found
Speaker 1: that if I really sit down and I say, look,
Speaker 1: I got to write this song, you know, send me
Speaker 1: a message, I am usually rewarded pretty quickly. Uh. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's not you know, a masterpiece or anything, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. There's this. I have a very good relationship
Speaker 1: with the creative forces. For some reason, I have good
Speaker 1: karma or something. For instance, you know, my sister just
Speaker 1: wrote a book, Martha Wayne Right. She wrote a book
Speaker 1: about a sort of a memoir called I think it's
Speaker 1: called Stories I Might Regret telling you or something, and
Speaker 1: it's doing quite well. And I've written things occasionally that
Speaker 1: is the complete opposite. If I have to write prose
Speaker 1: and sit down and you know, compose a sort of story,
Speaker 1: that's that that that's like pulling teeth for me. I'm
Speaker 1: wondering also, like so they're there are these ideas that
Speaker 1: come from wherever they come from, but then there's the
Speaker 1: actual work, like the mechanics of sitting down and giving
Speaker 1: physical form to an idea, which is like a massive
Speaker 1: amount of work. Do you ever have a day where
Speaker 1: you're like, and I don't want to do that. If
Speaker 1: I have to do it, I do it. But it
Speaker 1: isn't um, I don't know. I mean, I'm someone who
Speaker 1: maybe because I you know, I have I've had, you know,
Speaker 1: rather reckless tendencies in the past. You know, I wanted
Speaker 1: to go out and wanted to kind of lose myself
Speaker 1: and you know, the dark recesses of of the world occasionally. Therefore,
Speaker 1: I've always had a lot of projects on the go,
Speaker 1: whether it's music, nicles or operas or making records, and
Speaker 1: that does also you know, that gets me out of
Speaker 1: my head and just allows me you know, just just
Speaker 1: it's it's it's wholesome in the end, keeps you out
Speaker 1: of trouble. Yeah, it keeps me out of trouble. There
Speaker 1: you go, that's fair. Fair, Well, I'm wondering, like the
Speaker 1: you put out a new album a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: And when I think about your evolution as a songwriter,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how you think that you've changed as a
Speaker 1: songwriter over time, maybe since you were engaging in some
Speaker 1: of those dark recesses. Yeah, I mean, certainly every song
Speaker 1: that I've written, I try to write it as if
Speaker 1: I've never written a song before, you know. Um. But
Speaker 1: then of course there are you know, themes that that
Speaker 1: arise that I've worked with and and and there does
Speaker 1: seem to be kind of types of songs that I
Speaker 1: write that are in these compartments. I really try to
Speaker 1: make it a blank slate at the outset. I think
Speaker 1: when you do it so much and for so many
Speaker 1: different types of objects, you do have to sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to be able to get super
Speaker 1: sent about it at the outset, and then then it
Speaker 1: takes the form that it will take. I mean, if
Speaker 1: I was a pop songwriter, you know, and that does exist,
Speaker 1: you know, there are especially in Los Angeles, I mean
Speaker 1: there's whole teams of people who churn out these pop
Speaker 1: hits and they had a real formula to it and
Speaker 1: a real kind of like desire to know hit a
Speaker 1: market and stuff that is a big job. I cannot
Speaker 1: do that. Why is it, like, how is what you
Speaker 1: are doing different than than what that is? Well, because
Speaker 1: I'm I'm going you know, for me, it's a spiritual
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that other people don't have a spiritual
Speaker 1: connection to their songwriting, but mine is holy, so you
Speaker 1: know in the sense that like I'm when I'm writing
Speaker 1: a song, I'm not thinking about any other artist singing out.
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking about you know, what's on the radio.
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking about what the kids want to hear
Speaker 1: or what what's you know popular at the moment. It's
Speaker 1: like totally devoid of anything like that. And I'm not
Speaker 1: necess proud of this. It's just how I do it,
Speaker 1: you know. But that's the journey that I take, and
Speaker 1: people seem to react well to it. You know. Well,
Speaker 1: it's kind of always been that weight. Like if I'm
Speaker 1: as you're saying this, I'm thinking, put out your debut album,
Speaker 1: the biggest albums that you were, like the Miseducation of
Speaker 1: Lauren Hill, like Hip Hop, R and B Soul, Mezzanine,
Speaker 1: Massive Attack, the grunge era had just coming out. It
Speaker 1: was all about people pretending that they weren't putting effort
Speaker 1: into anything. Did you have any sense or any care
Speaker 1: about how you were fitting in at that time? I
Speaker 1: had no idea what was happening. On many levels, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to write a really great song. I mean
Speaker 1: I was, I was very and still am, you know,
Speaker 1: dedicated to the classics of songwriting, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: the Classic American Songbook or you know German Leader or
Speaker 1: Opera and or or you know, great American musicals, and
Speaker 1: I just wanted to write something that was kind of arresting,
Speaker 1: as as those works can be, you know, and a
Speaker 1: lot of that music, you know, when like Nirvana came
Speaker 1: out and stuff. I just it's not that I didn't
Speaker 1: like it or or that I didn't get it. I
Speaker 1: just didn't. It just wasn't in my per view, which
Speaker 1: is funny because I ended up going to l A
Speaker 1: and hanging out with Courtney Love, like I knew all
Speaker 1: those people. I was in that scene. But I was
Speaker 1: in my own little bubble, doing my own little thing,
Speaker 1: and thankfully I had the I had the support to
Speaker 1: do that with DreamWorks Records and stuff. So, yeah, you
Speaker 1: said that you wanted to write the great song or
Speaker 1: that you were on the hunt for something. Was there
Speaker 1: the first song that came out of you that you
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, I can do this well. I mean,
Speaker 1: the one, the one that's most sort of seminal is
Speaker 1: this song Beauty Mark, that I wrote about my mother
Speaker 1: early early on, and it's on my first album because
Speaker 1: I had written a bunch of songs that we're kind
Speaker 1: of all over the place, and my mother told me that,
Speaker 1: she said, you know you, she said, you gotta really
Speaker 1: tighten this up a little bit here, because I don't
Speaker 1: think we're gonna want to listen to this too much.
Speaker 1: We should say, like, she was an amazing folk singer.
Speaker 1: Kate mcgarrig old. Yeah, she was, yeah, yeah, legendary. She
Speaker 1: wasn't just like some moms like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: she was. She was very um intent on really, you know,
Speaker 1: giving me a solid education, and therefore was pretty critical
Speaker 1: of both my sister and I. But so I wrote
Speaker 1: Beauty Mark as a kind of reply to her, and uh,
Speaker 1: and she loved that song, and she kind of liked
Speaker 1: every song after that pretty much except for a few exceptions.
Speaker 1: And she'd tell you those, oh yeah, she would let
Speaker 1: right now, So you write that song early on, and
Speaker 1: you like sort of mentioned that when you were writing
Speaker 1: at that time in your early career, there was a
Speaker 1: big lifestyle that was going along with it, partying, having
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. How did you balance that with
Speaker 1: the actual craft of like sitting down at the piano
Speaker 1: and doing what you were doing. Yeah, yeah, well I
Speaker 1: just it all came together, you know, it was all
Speaker 1: done at the same time. I mean, I my great
Speaker 1: saving grace, and it is true, is that I was
Speaker 1: never able to really perform when I was screwed up,
Speaker 1: like I like, drinking and singing on stage just did
Speaker 1: not work for me. I immediately, you know, my tuning
Speaker 1: faltered and my piano playing I'd make mistakes and stuff.
Speaker 1: So so I had to have a line and sort
Speaker 1: of a boarder there that that that I was thankfully
Speaker 1: I had. But but when I wrote and stuff at home,
Speaker 1: you know, I could do whatever the hell I wanted,
Speaker 1: you know, and I very much, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: would go to a party and then get back at
Speaker 1: dawn and then you know, write more and beat market
Speaker 1: such a raw song, as so many of your songs are.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, like, as a writer, was it always comfortable
Speaker 1: for you to go to a place like that and
Speaker 1: write with that much honesty. Yeah, yeah, no, it was
Speaker 1: look I had there was never any choice otherwise. I mean,
Speaker 1: and that and that's more of a family tradition. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you look at my dad's music loud Wayne right,
Speaker 1: or my mother or my sister Martha. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: always imbued our material with you know, blood and for
Speaker 1: better or for worse. I mean, it's been somewhat of
Speaker 1: a rocky road, but that was begun by our parents.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're just continuing a tradition, and um, it's
Speaker 1: working for the time being. I don't know if our
Speaker 1: kids will we'll go into music and do that as well,
Speaker 1: but who knows. I read somewhere that your parents put
Speaker 1: you to sleep like in a guitar case when you
Speaker 1: were a baby. Is that actually folk fairy tale or
Speaker 1: is that true? That's true? And I have a photograph.
Speaker 1: I have a photograph. You know, my mother was in
Speaker 1: the hospital, uh you know, she had me and then
Speaker 1: they were driving her home, but before going home, she
Speaker 1: wanted to see my dad in the studio and there
Speaker 1: was no crib there, so they put me in the
Speaker 1: guitar case and that was my first ever crib outside
Speaker 1: of the hospital. It's a guitar case. Yeah, and your parents,
Speaker 1: I understand split when you were three years old three
Speaker 1: What did you understand about it at that time or
Speaker 1: how did they explain it to you? I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't really understand it at all. But the one sort
Speaker 1: of memory that I have that that stuck with me
Speaker 1: was wondering why they were putting the dining room table
Speaker 1: in the back of a truck like that didn't really
Speaker 1: make much sense to me. But yeah, so I remember that,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I know it was. It was a very
Speaker 1: tough divorce for everybody, for both my parents and also
Speaker 1: for my sister and I. And and we do write
Speaker 1: about it, you know, we do. We do communicate these stories.
Speaker 1: I think people appreciate that. But yet, as I said,
Speaker 1: it comes at a price as well, because you know,
Speaker 1: the lines can be blurred between you know, the stage
Speaker 1: and the kitchen. That's sure. I mean, it kind of
Speaker 1: blows my mind to think about having a mom who's
Speaker 1: working at communicating her feelings about your family life on
Speaker 1: stage two audiences while you're growing up in it, Like,
Speaker 1: can you give me a sense of what it was
Speaker 1: like to grow up with a songwriter for both parents. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was there's just a language that we
Speaker 1: could all, you know, understand, and that was wonderful to
Speaker 1: communicate in and look in the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it got our feelings out and we were able to
Speaker 1: be passionate and sort of loving and you know, exciting
Speaker 1: people because you know, we had this, we had good lighting.
Speaker 1: How did you fall in love with musicals? Like? Your
Speaker 1: parents were both folk musicians, So where did the love
Speaker 1: of musicals come from? I would visit my dad and
Speaker 1: we would go see musicals and York New York, New York,
Speaker 1: and we go to Annie and Barnum and Cats and stuff.
Speaker 1: So it was really through him. And then I developed
Speaker 1: a real passion for Cole Porter especially and those very
Speaker 1: famous the El Fitzgerald records when she would do the
Speaker 1: songbook albums, you know, classic. Yeah, and so I would
Speaker 1: listen to those songs, which were often from musical shows
Speaker 1: and and uh and then do a little research here
Speaker 1: and there. I would think that somebody like with with
Speaker 1: a love of musicals and theater and all that, and
Speaker 1: with also the widely emotional voice that you have with
Speaker 1: so much range to it, could have thought about pursuing
Speaker 1: theater as a curer. Did you ever think about that? Hm?
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't want. I wanted to write the material,
Speaker 1: But I am writing. I mean, I've written a musical
Speaker 1: now that will actually be uh premiered um in about
Speaker 1: a year or so. I can't really say anything about it,
Speaker 1: but yes, I am definitely aiming to everything about I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, and and it's and it's got
Speaker 1: a great story, and there's it's with a great sort
Speaker 1: of team and and you will know more about it.
Speaker 1: But I mean, certainly now, you know, with the Udie
Speaker 1: Garland shows celebrating her one birthday and and singing a
Speaker 1: lot of those you know, classic musical songs, and and
Speaker 1: and and also I mean with her especially um, I
Speaker 1: was like just head over heels in love with movie musicals.
Speaker 1: You know. For me, I didn't want to be on
Speaker 1: you know, the stage necessarily in a musical. I wanted
Speaker 1: to be on a sound stage, you know, with you know,
Speaker 1: thousands of people surrounding me and you know, fountains and
Speaker 1: thunderclaps and everything. So that was sort of more what
Speaker 1: I was susceptible to. Well, there's the glamor of it,
Speaker 1: but there's also I think the music, Like what was
Speaker 1: it about the music that Judy Garland saying that made
Speaker 1: you want to take it on? Yeah? Well, I think
Speaker 1: with her especially, it was this insane and I'm speaking
Speaker 1: about her her movies now and the musicals, this insane
Speaker 1: kind of laser beam of strength that where all of
Speaker 1: these elements suddenly were mushed together, you know, whether it
Speaker 1: was her incredible singing, an incredible song, the great lighting,
Speaker 1: I mean the light, even though I say lighting in
Speaker 1: a kind of funny way though you can't, but that
Speaker 1: Hollywood lighting was just so other worldly, and then the
Speaker 1: great costumes and the great choreographer, and it would all
Speaker 1: come together in this sort of blinding ray of light
Speaker 1: and just devastate anyone who even came within, you know,
Speaker 1: an inch of it. So I was very seduced by that.
Speaker 1: And of course the music was really top of the list.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean in the sense that the songwriters
Speaker 1: at that time, and a lot of them did write musicals,
Speaker 1: you know, Irving Berlin and and uh Coal Porter and
Speaker 1: all of those guys. Is that they they were really
Speaker 1: celebrated as these uh they were considered gods in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. And when I say God's I mean
Speaker 1: I mean like gods, gods and goddesses more Greek style
Speaker 1: to what everything, what everybody did. It had to be
Speaker 1: just so seductive and so powerful and so kind of
Speaker 1: just undeniable in a lot of ways. And there was
Speaker 1: a sense of occasion, Like the was a sense of
Speaker 1: occasion about everything that I think, Yah and I think
Speaker 1: to be on stage or to be on this fell
Speaker 1: on screen, you know, you had to be larger than life. Musician,
Speaker 1: Rufus wayne right. If you love conversations with powerful songwriters,
Speaker 1: check out our episode with Carly Simon. I had developed
Speaker 1: my own voice, but with so many influences that I
Speaker 1: hadn't I hadn't cut myself off from my influences and
Speaker 1: made a whole me. The umbilical cord was still attached
Speaker 1: to Odetta, was still attached to Annie Ross of Memberson Wis,
Speaker 1: and Ross still attached to Pete Seeger To to the
Speaker 1: various influences, I mean, I still have trouble with that.
Speaker 1: Here the rest of the conversation with Carly Simon at
Speaker 1: Here's the thing dot Org. After the break, Rufus shares
Speaker 1: the special something it takes to do justice to Judy Garland.
Speaker 1: I'm Talia Schlanger and you're listening to here's the thing
Speaker 1: wosther yea? And that is of course somewhere over the
Speaker 1: Rainbow from Rufus, Wayne writes new live album Rufus Does
Speaker 1: Judy at Capital Studios. Wayne writes music often features big,
Speaker 1: luscious instrumentation, which makes this gorgeous a cappella moment particularly unique.
Speaker 1: There's a story behind that, and what it is is that,
Speaker 1: I mean, that was the song that my mother and
Speaker 1: I did together since I was a very young child.
Speaker 1: And when I first did the big you know, tribute
Speaker 1: shows at Carnegie Hall and at the Palladium in London.
Speaker 1: You know, we had a big orchestra and everything, and
Speaker 1: I for that number particularly, I had my mother come
Speaker 1: out and accompanied me just for the beginning, you know,
Speaker 1: and then the strings would come in and the band
Speaker 1: and it would become more like the original. But there
Speaker 1: was just sort of this nice moment of with the
Speaker 1: two of us. And then sadly, you know, she passed
Speaker 1: away from cancer at sixty three, and so it's in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways that's sort of me, you know,
Speaker 1: that's her, me and her together. Oh do you mean
Speaker 1: that you're sort of like marking her absence by having
Speaker 1: without her? Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, now that's what
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, yeah, you can feel that, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I know many people who have emotional connections
Speaker 1: to that song for whatever reason. But you can really
Speaker 1: feel the presence of something. So yeah, now that song,
Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's been done eight billion times and
Speaker 1: eight billion different ways, but it's it's amazing how powerful
Speaker 1: it is and how you know, how it just it's
Speaker 1: the gifts that keeps giving for sure. Did you perform
Speaker 1: this album for an audience of one for Renee's Elwigger? Yes? Yes,
Speaker 1: So what's what's it like to perform just for one?
Speaker 1: This was a COVID measure, you know, Okay, okay, you
Speaker 1: know it was. It stemmed from a kind of a
Speaker 1: series of shot concerts that I did from my living
Speaker 1: room during COVID when all my tours were canceled and
Speaker 1: I just did shows here and we would have like
Speaker 1: a celebrity guest for each one, and so it was
Speaker 1: part of that that series. And did Renee win a raffle?
Speaker 1: Is that how she ended upon Renee? We won the
Speaker 1: raffle and Renee arrived. Really actually we did because we
Speaker 1: would ask a lot of people and some people could,
Speaker 1: some people couldn't, some people didn't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: be anywhere during COVID. So it was we were very
Speaker 1: fortunate to have her. And yeah, I know she was
Speaker 1: totally gracious and I think really enjoyed it a lot.
Speaker 1: And uh, she was going to maybe sing at one point,
Speaker 1: but but then it didn't really make sense because she
Speaker 1: had just done Judy and she had won the Oscar
Speaker 1: for it, and and it was sort of like I
Speaker 1: think she was ready to like be a spectator, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, she was ready to she she didn't want
Speaker 1: to kind of go back into Judy, which I totally understand,
Speaker 1: you know, move on. Yeah, did you and your mom
Speaker 1: connect over Judy when you were younger too, or just
Speaker 1: as a grown up. I mean, I think she appreciated
Speaker 1: Judy Garland. I think she was also aware that it was,
Speaker 1: you know, indicative of some other things, you mean in
Speaker 1: terms of me, you know, loving Judy Garland. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know, my son is not going
Speaker 1: to be a football player. She was nervous us about
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff, you know that I was
Speaker 1: gay and so I think it was accepted, but but
Speaker 1: also not necessarily encouraged. She wasn't against it or anything,
Speaker 1: but it was you know, once again, it was a
Speaker 1: different world being gay back in the eighties. Was was
Speaker 1: very different. But but she appreciated her artistry and she
Speaker 1: loves the song, but she was more of she was
Speaker 1: really more of a rock and roll person. My mother
Speaker 1: loved you know, Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones and
Speaker 1: people like that. I'm curious about what it was like
Speaker 1: to come out to your mom at that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, it was. It was. It was intense. It
Speaker 1: was intense. I was only thirteen, so so you know,
Speaker 1: so so and that was very rare at that time,
Speaker 1: and AIDS was everywhere, and so it was. It was
Speaker 1: a heavy duty time. But we got through it, thankfully.
Speaker 1: Were you scared at that time too, for like, did
Speaker 1: you have an awareness all the time? You know, I
Speaker 1: was scared shitless, you know, of what was going on
Speaker 1: with with AIDS and and everything and h so it
Speaker 1: was everybody, it was. It was. It was like a
Speaker 1: very dark period, which I mean we're in a dark
Speaker 1: period now, but yeah, the AIDS epidemic was pretty bad.
Speaker 1: I grew up in theater and working in theater. And
Speaker 1: my first roommate was a gay guy who was he
Speaker 1: was in his twenties. I was seventeen, and he and
Speaker 1: his friends sort of showed me how to live and
Speaker 1: showed me adults. And we were in Toronto, which is
Speaker 1: quite different, but we you know, I got a sense
Speaker 1: of it. We've lost friends in our friend group to
Speaker 1: complications studio HIV, and it's so real and and it's
Speaker 1: so recent, like it's kind of amazing to make it
Speaker 1: out of that time safely. Yeah, yeah, no, it is.
Speaker 1: It is, and and it is and it's somewhat of
Speaker 1: a miracle, I have to say, because I was, I was.
Speaker 1: I had some pretty dicey periods at certain points. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know it is look I mean, and maybe
Speaker 1: with Judy too, and and and in a strange way
Speaker 1: with those songs. And also you know, she's going to
Speaker 1: be she would have been a hundred you know that
Speaker 1: that's the June tenth is I'm performing, you know, City
Speaker 1: Winery for her birthday and and and doing some of
Speaker 1: this out, doing her a lot of these songs. And
Speaker 1: even though she died at a very young age and
Speaker 1: she was obviously a victim of addiction and so forth.
Speaker 1: There's something in her voice that gave a lot of
Speaker 1: strength to people and really helped Soldier on through you know,
Speaker 1: really impossible odds. Yeah, and we need honesty from our
Speaker 1: from our artists. Yeah, that's something I've always admired about
Speaker 1: your writing. Like, I'm such a long long time fan
Speaker 1: of yours, And I think one thing when I was
Speaker 1: getting ready to talk to you today that I was
Speaker 1: thinking about is like having these really big, grand arrangements, Um,
Speaker 1: you have to have a real emotional truth to what
Speaker 1: you're saying for that to all make sense in land
Speaker 1: and not feel over the topic, to feel real. Is
Speaker 1: that something you think about in your Well, I have
Speaker 1: to say, I have to say with this album, I
Speaker 1: strongly believe that that is one of the its greatest assets,
Speaker 1: is that this whole judy you know, phantasmagoria beforehand, with
Speaker 1: the Carnegie Hall and the orchestra and the you know,
Speaker 1: the big arrangements and everything. That's great and I love
Speaker 1: doing that and I will do that again, but there's
Speaker 1: something impairing it all down and really going back to
Speaker 1: the essentials and and and also really having it leaned
Speaker 1: mostly on my interpretations as a singer and as an artist.
Speaker 1: There's a brutality to it, which is good. It's much
Speaker 1: more fierce. And now I've sung those songs for many years,
Speaker 1: you know, Like when I made my album, the Judy Album,
Speaker 1: almost twenty years ago, I didn't know a lot of
Speaker 1: that material very well. But now I've it's really in
Speaker 1: my body and and and and I just have to
Speaker 1: sort of I could do it all a cappella. It's
Speaker 1: hard to sing like that stuff is not easy to sing.
Speaker 1: It requires a huge range, right, Yeah, Well, it's just
Speaker 1: I think it re wires and intelligence. Not not that
Speaker 1: I'm smart really, because I'm actually quite dumb in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. But musically you have to sort of,
Speaker 1: really I don't. You have to inhabit both the lyrics
Speaker 1: and the melody and and and sort of really interpret
Speaker 1: them in a way that that the listener is very much,
Speaker 1: you know, taken away into this other world. And all
Speaker 1: those great songs have the ability to do that. Good.
Speaker 1: That's and Chuck Rufus Wayne, Right, If you're enjoying this episode,
Speaker 1: don't keep it to yourself, Tell a friend, and be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on the I Heart Radio app
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When we return,
Speaker 1: Rufus Wayne Wright shares his thoughts on how fatherhood has
Speaker 1: changed him. I'm Talia s Langer and you're listening to
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I'm going to a town that it's
Speaker 1: already been. I'm going to place it is already been describe.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see some folks who have already been let down.
Speaker 1: I'm so tired of America. That's Rufus Waynewright performing going
Speaker 1: to a Town. From his two thousand and seven album
Speaker 1: release The Stars, Wayne writes, wide ranging style is impossible
Speaker 1: to pigeonhole for a musician who has straddled so many
Speaker 1: styles and had such a long career, I was curious
Speaker 1: who his fans are today, who he sees when he
Speaker 1: looks out at the crowd. Well, it depends where I am,
Speaker 1: you know. I especially in Europe, I got a good
Speaker 1: sense of that. Where you know, in certain places it
Speaker 1: will all be people my age or older, and then
Speaker 1: other places there'll be a lot of young people. Like
Speaker 1: in Spain, for instance, there's still a lot of young
Speaker 1: people who come to see me. A lot of women,
Speaker 1: a lot of women, uh, and a lot of straight guys.
Speaker 1: The gays are a little harder to pin down as usual.
Speaker 1: What do you mean, they're just a little more Uh,
Speaker 1: they're very into the flavor of the month. You knows,
Speaker 1: they're fair weather fans. I mean, they know who I am,
Speaker 1: and they come occasionally and they've enjoyed their time, and
Speaker 1: they they've noted my existence. But it's not they're not
Speaker 1: particularly loyal, which you know, is kind of part of
Speaker 1: being a gay person sometimes, okay, man, especially not that
Speaker 1: if the lesbians is the opposite, they're like the most loyal.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're with you till the bitter end. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: Do you think that you're being out has affected your
Speaker 1: career in one way or the other? Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: very much. I mean I think it's given me um
Speaker 1: a kind of I don't know, it's been an interesting ride.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think fundamentally, I'm very happy with
Speaker 1: my decision and my story and my career and my
Speaker 1: legacy are are firmly kind of established and rooted. I
Speaker 1: do think I lost a lot of opportunities along the
Speaker 1: way that could have maybe made me i don't know,
Speaker 1: more mainstream or you know, more maybe more money and stuff.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the yeah, oh yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: But funnily enough, I think I actually dodged a bullet
Speaker 1: because if I, you know, I'm I'm not hounded all
Speaker 1: the time. I have privacy. I can do what I
Speaker 1: want to do, you know, I'm not sort of slave,
Speaker 1: a slave to this show business piece that that. I
Speaker 1: think people who are are a few notches up for
Speaker 1: me have to contend with ya. Did anybody ever try
Speaker 1: to make you keep that? Oh? Yeah, I know they
Speaker 1: would often say, like, oh, money, just pretend you're bisexual,
Speaker 1: like when I you know, when I would say it,
Speaker 1: or that you're are just not talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I look, when I started, it was nobody was
Speaker 1: doing it. I mean it was and I was in
Speaker 1: the mainstream. I was signed to a major label and
Speaker 1: you know, doing big shows. And I was very honest
Speaker 1: about my sexuality, which was completely unusual at that time,
Speaker 1: especially for men, because at that time there were people
Speaker 1: like Melissa Ethridge and Katie Lang had kind of come
Speaker 1: out of the closet a bit. So it was kind
Speaker 1: of happening, but it was, but that was more of
Speaker 1: a sort of how can I say this? I would
Speaker 1: say it was a thing but it was sort of
Speaker 1: it was less dangerous I think than a gay man,
Speaker 1: which is interesting. But then afterwards, you know, it became
Speaker 1: more common. Do you think that the music industry has
Speaker 1: changed at all when it comes to welcoming people of all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I do actually feel that in the music
Speaker 1: business it's more it's you know, with people like Little
Speaker 1: Nasax and Troy Savon, and yes, there's a foothold now
Speaker 1: that exists. And I think even after you know, the
Speaker 1: death of of George Michael, which was you know, he
Speaker 1: obviously struggled so much with his demons, and so there's
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, it's it's more embedded at
Speaker 1: this point. I think in Hollywood and then acting thing,
Speaker 1: it's completely still out to lunch. I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: there's it's why is there not one leading man who's gay,
Speaker 1: really like a leading you know, not one you know
Speaker 1: still and uh, I mean they kind of toy with it,
Speaker 1: but but there I think in in Hollywood, it's in
Speaker 1: the in the movie business and stuff, it's it's still
Speaker 1: a big problem. I'm thinking about. So ships created this
Speaker 1: like a wonderful show created by Eugene Levy and his
Speaker 1: son Dan Levy And as you're saying the same thing
Speaker 1: about the finale episode, which was considered groundbreaking, you know
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years where the Dan Levy's
Speaker 1: character marries a man and it was just this really beautiful,
Speaker 1: touching wedding ceremony and to to watch and Dan, did
Speaker 1: you see Dan Levy's mom's tweet. She tweeted today, I
Speaker 1: regret every single second of worry back in the uninformed eighties,
Speaker 1: wondering how the world was going to treat my brilliant
Speaker 1: little boy who loved to twirl. Little did I know
Speaker 1: that he was going to kick that old world's asked
Speaker 1: to the curb and create a brand new one. That's great,
Speaker 1: that's wonderful. Yeah, But I think that that's part of like,
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to you for being who you are and
Speaker 1: doing it in the way that you do it, because
Speaker 1: I think it gives other people license to be themselves
Speaker 1: and to see that that's that's the way, Like, that's
Speaker 1: not only the way to live, that's also the way
Speaker 1: to create art. That's the way to achieve your dreams.
Speaker 1: That's that's the way to do all of this. Yes, yes, well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's a really beautiful thing. How um,
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know if your daughter is interested in
Speaker 1: music at all. Now, Yeah, I know she is. She
Speaker 1: she sings and she's interested in it, but she's also
Speaker 1: interested in her nails and and her hair and her friends.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not it's not. There's a whole
Speaker 1: wide variety of interest there. How do you balance like
Speaker 1: fatherhood and being there for your kid with all of
Speaker 1: these demands, and and also like writing before you're getting
Speaker 1: out on stage on tour, all of the stuff that
Speaker 1: you do right right now, I just do it. Thankfully.
Speaker 1: I have the time, and I also have the great
Speaker 1: the support. I mean, I have a great husband, Yourn,
Speaker 1: and who's also my manager as well, so that's really
Speaker 1: helpful because he can really understand, you know, the tight
Speaker 1: rope that has to be walked. And and once again,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not super famous in the sense that
Speaker 1: you know, I can have privacy, I can I can
Speaker 1: have downtime. I'm not hounded like all those people like
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga and stuff. I mean that that in itself
Speaker 1: becomes its own job, and that to me would be
Speaker 1: this just like a bloody nightmare. So yeah, didn't becoming
Speaker 1: a dad yourself changed the way that you think about
Speaker 1: your own dad when you're growing up. Yeah, I mean somewhat,
Speaker 1: some much somewhat. But you have to try to forgive
Speaker 1: your parents. It's regardless of whether you understand it or not.
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you learned from him as a
Speaker 1: dad that you want to pass on to your daughter.
Speaker 1: He's funny. He has a good sense of humor. Yes,
Speaker 1: he has an amazing sense of humor. Actually, he's right.
Speaker 1: He really knows how to make my daughter laugh, and
Speaker 1: that's very important. And when I say laugh, I mean
Speaker 1: really laugh. He's he's a he's a brilliant wit and
Speaker 1: I I admire him for that. You've written so much
Speaker 1: about craving and longing and desire in your career. And
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the album Want One and the song
Speaker 1: want where you wrote but just want to Dreams? What
Speaker 1: do you want now? Now? What do I want? A
Speaker 1: good question, you know, speaking of Broadway, I actually would
Speaker 1: like to conquer Broadway. It's very simple. I spent you know,
Speaker 1: during COVID, and this idea to write this musical came
Speaker 1: up and I did it and uh and and now
Speaker 1: we're very much in the process of you know, producing
Speaker 1: the theater piece and and getting you casting and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And I do actually see a real opening
Speaker 1: for me in terms of really being able to gain
Speaker 1: from all the experiences I've had in the past through
Speaker 1: opera or through you know, my love of Judy Garland,
Speaker 1: I can kind of infuse uh, this Broadway dream with
Speaker 1: that knowledge. So I'm very excited to actually go full
Speaker 1: on a head into that. That's what I want. I
Speaker 1: want to conquer Broadway and the West End Broadway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's just keep it simple. Dream. That's what they always think.
Speaker 1: But what is it that drives you to conquer these
Speaker 1: new territories after so much time? What is it? Well?
Speaker 1: I you know, look, it's funny because it's not I
Speaker 1: never wanted to conquer. For instance, I never wanted to
Speaker 1: conquer the opera world, and I and I didn't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I wrote two very beautiful operas and they've done very well,
Speaker 1: and they're very appreciated, and they're being produced, and but
Speaker 1: it's not like I'm not like that. I'm not like
Speaker 1: the leading composer of upper or anything. And in terms
Speaker 1: of singing the Judy stuff, I never I just did
Speaker 1: that because I thought it would be fun. But with
Speaker 1: the Broadway West End stuff that I do want to conquer,
Speaker 1: that is a more of a blood sport. So I'm
Speaker 1: embarking on that journey now. I've already already have actually
Speaker 1: so well, I'm going to wish you well with it.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to hear what comes of it. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, my phone, my thanks to singer,
Speaker 1: songwriter and opera composer Rufus Wayne Right. You can see
Speaker 1: him live all over the US and Europe in two
Speaker 1: and if you're in New York you can catch him
Speaker 1: at City Winery. He has four dates they're starting June five.
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with Rufus is Owed to Love in
Speaker 1: the modern world. This is Vibrate from one one. I'm
Speaker 1: Talia Schlanger. Alec Baldwin will be back next week. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing, is brought to you by I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: my phones on fard F. Goodness, what all these new
Speaker 1: drunks to I guess to have no? What's still loud