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Speaker 1: My wife asked for a divorce. I refused and ripped

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Speaker 1: up the divorce papers.

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Speaker 2: Classic the divorce papers.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you killed a tree for that. So me,

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Speaker 1: twenty seven male, and my wife thirty one female, hit

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Speaker 1: a rough spot and have been separated at home for

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Speaker 1: almost a year now. By the way, this comes from

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Speaker 1: fun Independence fifty nine to sixty four on the best

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Speaker 1: Reddit updates. Sub read it. So it was largely my fault.

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Speaker 1: After a big setback and my father's unliving, I fell

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Speaker 1: into the drink drink and despair to stop taking care

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Speaker 1: of myself and neglected her and was emotionally bad to her.

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Speaker 1: Eventually she had enough and after I refused therapy for

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Speaker 1: the nth time, consulted divorce lawyer and drafted papers. I

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Speaker 1: signed them off right away, but she didn't, keeping them

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Speaker 1: in a room. She knew I was in a hard

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Speaker 1: spot financially, so she said she'd wait for me to

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Speaker 1: come into my inheritance so I could move out, and

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Speaker 1: then she'd sign and file for a no fault divorce,

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Speaker 1: not from the US. In her country, you can do this.

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Speaker 2: That's very considerate of her after.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe she's just trying to get a little that inheritance.

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Speaker 1: She's like, well, waitterestinged tor ching.

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Speaker 2: And then you'll give me all of your money.

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Speaker 1: After two months sleeping in my home office, I got

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Speaker 1: sick of it, stopped with the drinking Draken, dived into

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Speaker 1: work and overall did chores around the house and helped

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Speaker 1: her out. When she commented on my change, I boasted

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Speaker 1: I was doing it for myself, not for her, and

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Speaker 1: she agreed because while she wanted me out, she still

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Speaker 1: cared for me. Over last months, she also occasionally asked

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Speaker 1: me to sleep in the bed with her and not

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Speaker 1: in my home office. Nothing intimate happened, but she still

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Speaker 1: spooned me at time. This was until last evening. We

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Speaker 1: had gotten closer and closer, especially over the holidays, and

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Speaker 1: I told her that what I said was true. I

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Speaker 1: had changed and stopped drinking to show her at first,

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Speaker 1: but then I really wanted to turn over a new

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Speaker 1: leaf and be a good soon to be ex husband.

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Speaker 1: Also Caitlin van kamp And says oh Sam knows about

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Speaker 1: sleeping in the home office, referencing the fact that so Pia,

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Speaker 1: although the younger sibling, got a whole room to herself

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Speaker 1: as her bedroom, and I had to share a room

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Speaker 1: with my mom's office and a dog, and my bed

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Speaker 1: was converted into a couch during the day.

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Speaker 2: Then you loved it.

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Speaker 1: Sure. She went to her room and picked the divorce papers,

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Speaker 1: setting them in front of me. She asked what we

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Speaker 1: should do with those then, so I ripped them, and

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Speaker 1: she yelled out a big yes and then hugged me.

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Speaker 2: This is if I ripped the divorce papers. This is au.

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Speaker 1: We're in law, We're love again.

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Speaker 3: Boy.

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Speaker 2: They should rip them up really tiny and then use

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Speaker 2: them as confetti in there and then.

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Speaker 1: Go and get their vows. Yeah, their vows renewed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I guess we won't be getting divorced. Hooray, hooray.

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Speaker 1: And you might think, oh, finally happy envy on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is it.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: That's the end of the story.

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Speaker 1: But we're only ten percent done with this story. We

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Speaker 1: have more, but we have some relevant comments. So objective

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Speaker 1: er four O two says, your wife is a keeper,

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Speaker 1: Guard her with your life, and don't ever break your heart.

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Speaker 1: Good luck, bro Hope. Her responds, I will thank you.

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Speaker 1: I was so deep down in negativity that I could

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Speaker 1: not see how I hurt her. To add, I may

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Speaker 1: sound neutral slash uncaring by the tone of the post,

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Speaker 1: but I really didn't expect what happened, what I did,

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Speaker 1: and how she'd react. We had talked a bit previously

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Speaker 1: about this, and all she said is that she was

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Speaker 1: in no hurry to divorce as long as I were

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Speaker 1: respectful and kept improving. I had a hunch she wanted

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Speaker 1: to try and reconcile, but she was already being so

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Speaker 1: generous to me that I didn't want to try and

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Speaker 1: push my luck. And I admit it feels weird that

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Speaker 1: we can be husband and wife again. I guess it

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Speaker 1: will take some time after over a year as roommates,

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Speaker 1: and ej Yat thirteen says, just to add, she likely

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Speaker 1: wanted the changes, but wanted them to be motivated changes,

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Speaker 1: not based on a threat. Op making the changes even

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Speaker 1: after signing the paper shows the changes are for himself

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Speaker 1: and likely to stick, even if it was to be

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Speaker 1: a good soon to be ex husband. Very different than

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Speaker 1: proving you should be a keeper. Still, kudos all around,

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Speaker 1: and Opie responds, thank you. She was ready to go

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Speaker 1: through with it because even if she loves me, she

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Speaker 1: couldn't keep enduring me, hurting both myself and her emotionally

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Speaker 1: and morally, and I think she was right to do that.

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Speaker 1: It still feels weird to be sleeping in the same

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Speaker 1: bed every night and be affectionate. We haven't been intimate

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Speaker 1: at all during separation, and she hinted she wants to

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Speaker 1: reconnect too on that level. Woooooo Earth Angel ten six

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Speaker 1: one four says, take things so slow, show her intimacy,

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Speaker 1: nuts spicy sleep, learn to be best friends, whether for

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Speaker 1: the first time or again. Confide in her and listen,

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Speaker 1: really listen what she confides a new share your thoughts

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Speaker 1: and emotions with her. You don't have to grieve alone,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think she ever wanted you to. In

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Speaker 1: my opinion, there's nothing spicy sleepier than a guy who

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Speaker 1: is in touch with himself enough that he will cry

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Speaker 1: in front of his girl. Let her know you trust

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Speaker 1: her enough to share that sob and it's okay to

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Speaker 1: let her hold you while you grieve. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to be the strong one all the time. You should

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Speaker 1: each be able to feel your individual pain. To be

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Speaker 1: confronted comforted, Opie responded, comforted comforted.

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Speaker 2: Like that like Benjamin Button at the end of Benjamin Button.

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Speaker 1: Just like that, OPI responded, you are right. I definitely

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Speaker 1: need to learn to be more open emotionally, and I'm

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Speaker 1: working on it in therapy. Also, when we hug or cuddle,

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Speaker 1: I admit to her that it feels a bit weird

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Speaker 1: but also pleasant and fuzzy after so much time. She

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Speaker 1: just reassures me that for those things, we have all

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Speaker 1: the time in the world world. But she also said, no,

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Speaker 1: hurry and take things at our pace. Right. Angle says

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Speaker 1: eventually she had enough after I refuse therapy for the time.

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Speaker 1: This is actual. This is the actual step you need

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Speaker 1: to take therapy. You are a drinking drinker coming out

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Speaker 1: of a major depressive episode. This won't be the last

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Speaker 1: depressive episode, nor will it be the last relapse. Don't

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Speaker 1: let the honeymoon period blind you to what's really happening.

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Speaker 1: You have a golden opportunity to save your marriage. Start

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Speaker 1: doing the real work. Op responds, you're absolutely right. I'm

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Speaker 1: in therapy now. Where transpired. I was swapping drinking drinkingism

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Speaker 1: for workaholism. So now I'm trying to find a healthy

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Speaker 1: ground because in the long run it would undo all

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Speaker 1: the progress so far. All right, So we got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of it seems like OP is cementing all these

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Speaker 1: good habbits.

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Speaker 3: You gotta get your eyes wet to get her what?

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Speaker 1: Oh amen?

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Speaker 2: True? Sure, sure, sure, But it does seem like OP

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Speaker 2: like everyone in the comments is like, make sure you're

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Speaker 2: you're vigilant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's true, like yeah, like you need to.

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Speaker 2: I think and I think he's doing that.

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Speaker 3: That last comment was really good.

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Speaker 1: But is he gonna do it for long? What are

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Speaker 1: our bets? If you're a betting man? Is o peak?

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Speaker 2: As I think to make it right and Marrow, I

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Speaker 2: think he's gonna. I think he's gonna. I think he's

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Speaker 2: gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: Kimberly find says Jesus, don't predict a relapse out loud

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Speaker 1: to a newly sober person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that was a little bitch.

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Speaker 2: That's why I feel like the commentary could have been

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Speaker 2: a little bit like, hey, just like make sure you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they could have said it better.

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Speaker 2: You got this, bro, But this is Reddit, this is Reddit.

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Speaker 1: Well we got an update five days later. Hello everyone, Hello.

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Speaker 1: I posted a week ago about what had happened the

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Speaker 1: evening prior. After a living separate at home for almost

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Speaker 1: a year, my soon to be ex wife wanted to reconcile,

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Speaker 1: so I ripped it of horse papers in front of

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Speaker 1: her to hurt the light. However, soon after the realization

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Speaker 1: that I had planned my whole new year round the

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Speaker 1: fact it was the fact that I was getting divorced

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Speaker 1: set in and that the decision of reconciliation actually brought

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Speaker 1: me uncertainty and anxiety. My wife noticed that and we

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Speaker 1: had a number of heart to hearts about this. There

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Speaker 1: were talking, There were last even tears during those talks,

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Speaker 1: tears of the good, liberatory kind. My wife rarely, if

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Speaker 1: almost never, cries, She's the stoic type. But seeing her

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Speaker 1: break into tears sobbing how much I hurt her and

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Speaker 1: that she still loves me, was like getting stabbed in

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Speaker 1: the heart. I realized the pain I caused her that

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Speaker 1: is still fresh and burning. She unloaded all the pain

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Speaker 1: and tormil I had inflicted on upon her with the

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Speaker 1: past behavior and admitted she felt both proud and bitter

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Speaker 1: about my changes last year. Proud because I turned my

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Speaker 1: life around. Bitter because I accepted the divorce so quickly,

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Speaker 1: as if she was what was holding me back and

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Speaker 1: she wasn't worth my best self. Oh, However, she was

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Speaker 1: also angry at herself because she was already reconsidering the

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Speaker 1: divorce back in June, but didn't say anything or gave

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Speaker 1: me signal because she feared I'd revert back to my

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Speaker 1: old behavior or would rebuff her. In the meantime, I

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Speaker 1: had started to renovate my father's old villa.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, OPI has an inheritance.

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Speaker 1: Well more of a big house than a proper mansion

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Speaker 1: to move in this year, and gave her only breadcrumbs

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Speaker 1: of information about it. And she was both positively surprised

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Speaker 1: to learn about all the work I'm putting into it,

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Speaker 1: and again a bit bitter that I didn't tell her

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Speaker 1: anything about all my projects that were designed without her

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Speaker 1: in mind, and if she was just an already fading memory.

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Speaker 1: The possibility of an amaicable divorce has been brought up again,

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Speaker 1: but she wanted too clear answers. Was there another woman?

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Speaker 1: Did I actually stop loving her? The answers to both

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Speaker 1: question is no. I told her I did suffer from

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Speaker 1: losing her in our marriage, but I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be the ex husband who made fleeting promises, hounded her down,

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Speaker 1: and made a nuisance of herself. It's the least I

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Speaker 1: could have done after making her suffer so much. And

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Speaker 1: also my butt hurts squats.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and also my mutt hurts. Yeah, that's what he said.

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Speaker 1: I did squats yesterday and like, yeah, you know, can

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Speaker 1: you how's it feel walking up the stairs feels like

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Speaker 1: two pancakes?

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Speaker 3: Wait a second, are you gonna set up like that

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Speaker 3: for a sirk?

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Speaker 1: I just I'm trying to like make my butt just

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Speaker 1: not you got it all right? Also, thank her for

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Speaker 1: her infinite kindness. I just worked, did my best to

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Speaker 1: be a good soon to be ex husband, paid my utilities,

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Speaker 1: and wanted to pay her rent for the room she

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Speaker 1: allocated to me in her home, which he always refused

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Speaker 1: even when I insisted. Eventually I arrived at the one

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Speaker 1: million dollar question, do we want this marriage to work? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it just seems like both of them are trying

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Speaker 2: to do what they think is right for the other person.

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Speaker 2: And did they just need to have a conversation.

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Speaker 3: The relationshipship chicken?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, well, if you want to get a divorce,

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Speaker 2: it's fine.

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Speaker 1: Answer.

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Speaker 2: What's the answer, Yes, let's go huzzah.

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Speaker 1: It won't be easy and there's still a lot of

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Speaker 1: work to do and be done, and we agreed to

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Speaker 1: take baby steps and have already booked a couple therapy

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Speaker 1: sessions for this week. I'm already doing individual therapy, but

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Speaker 1: now she'll be looking for individual therapy for herself as well.

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Speaker 1: In the last week, we went on some quiet dates,

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Speaker 1: walks in a short hiking trip. I also made a

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Speaker 1: peace offering of sorts by asking her if she wanted

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Speaker 1: to participate in my renovation project of my father's house,

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Speaker 1: giving her input and ideas. She was enthusiastic about it.

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Speaker 1: She likes gardening, but her property has no garden and

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Speaker 1: she makes do with potted plants on the balcony, while

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Speaker 1: my father's house has a large garden and a big

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Speaker 1: plot of overgrown land behind it. She said, we will

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Speaker 1: be busting our backs, but it'll be worth it, and

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Speaker 1: I think that working together on a shared project will

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Speaker 1: help re establish our bond.

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Speaker 2: It also gives op this kind of thing to work.

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Speaker 1: So that's where we stand now. The road is still

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Speaker 1: long and difficult, but I am hopeful. I wish sincerely

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Speaker 1: that all the rhetitors who gave me their insights, comments,

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Speaker 1: praises and criticism their best and comments congrats. I was

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Speaker 1: the one who's suggested doing the renovation together. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: you liked the idea. Best of luck, Opie responds, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I took your advice and couldn't thank you enough for it.

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Speaker 1: My friend, it brought out an enthusiasm I hadn't seen

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Speaker 1: in so long. Tea Meek says, congratulations, thank you. Op

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Speaker 1: says it's still too soon, and Spoink seventy four says,

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Speaker 1: I'm really happy to read this one. The last one

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Speaker 1: ended on it too positive a note. This one is

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Speaker 1: more realistic, but also hopeful and optimistic.

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Speaker 2: They were like, it was too happy. I didn't trust it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Opi responds and says, yes, it would have been

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Speaker 1: foolish to think everything would have been fine right away.

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Speaker 1: It's not like in movies where they make up make

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Speaker 1: passionate love and our lovey dovey all of a sudden,

257
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Speaker 1: there's been distance for a year and hurt them both sides,

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Speaker 1: and it will take time to heal and be close

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Speaker 1: to each other again. But there's an update, and ah,

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Speaker 1: shall I go straight into it.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Also, as the progression of the garden grows, the relationship grows,

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Speaker 3: so true true.

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Speaker 1: So Opie responds with an update eight days later. Difficulty

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Speaker 1: sleeping with wife after separation Is that normal?

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Speaker 2: Presumably?

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Speaker 1: Presumably little change. In the last week. We had our

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Speaker 1: first couple counseling session and her first therapy session. We

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Speaker 1: laid down the framework for our marriage, went down on

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Speaker 1: some dates, and overall spent quality time together. We still

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Speaker 1: haven't been intimate, though she tried to initiate once, but

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Speaker 1: I gently turned it into cuddling and talking. Another issue

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Speaker 1: is that I have some difficulties sleeping in the same

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Speaker 1: bed as her. Not because I have something against her,

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Speaker 1: but I'm so used to sleeping in my own bed

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Speaker 1: that I often only sleep one to two hours with her,

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Speaker 1: wake up and head to my home office last bedroom

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Speaker 1: and sleep there. My thought process, though, is like I

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Speaker 1: I feel like when I had a long term girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: I slept better with them, and then when I got

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Speaker 1: out of that relationship, I got used to sleeping better alone.

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Speaker 1: And then when I got into a new relationship, initially

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Speaker 1: it was hard to sleep with the person, and then

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Speaker 1: it became easier to sleep better with them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it just takes time to adjust to

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Speaker 2: sleeping with anyone new.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

288
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, in any circumstance, it's going to be a different

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just different.

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Speaker 3: This person breaths, yeah, this person breathes, or like this

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Speaker 3: person has like tape over their mouth and suffocate themselves

293
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Speaker 3: in them.

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Speaker 2: Basically, I don't suffocate myself.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't talking about you.

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Speaker 1: I wake up and then head to my office slash

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Speaker 1: bedroom and sleep there. I wake up earlier and fixed

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Speaker 1: breakfast for her. So she's happy about it, but mentioned

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Speaker 1: once I didn't sleep with her. Do those things take time?

300
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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think they do. Yeah, I believe so.

301
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Speaker 1: But I'm a bit scared. I'm giving the impression I

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Speaker 1: gave up on our marriage. I believe it will take

303
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Speaker 1: months and a lot of work to get back at

304
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Speaker 1: how we were, while she thinks the process should be

305
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Speaker 1: quicker and I'm being too hard on myself and her.

306
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah I think that. Oh, Like I feel like he

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00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 2: probably would get you be more used to sleeping in

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Speaker 2: the same bed if he was staying in the bed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like you have to, like you're not

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Speaker 1: push through it. Yeah, You're gonna have to push through.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know, like when you're when

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Speaker 1: your baby is learning to sleep on its own. It's

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Speaker 1: like I always wants to sleep with you, but you just.

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Speaker 2: Have to let it cry.

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Speaker 1: I have to let it cry for a little bit.

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Speaker 2: You have to let your soul cry a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bubbles Marie though says I am team separate beds

318
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Speaker 1: a little after twelve years. I want my space and

319
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Speaker 1: I snore, so I wake him up. I came in

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Speaker 1: the van. Campus says can we normalize a couple sleeping

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Speaker 1: in different beds? I hate sharing a bed with my

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Speaker 1: partner unless it's for spicy time, which I think.

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Speaker 2: Is super fair. I think that, like, if you don't

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Speaker 2: want to sleep in the same bed with your partner,

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Speaker 2: that's totally fine. In this situation, it does seem like,

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Speaker 2: ohp was doing that and wanted to do that, and it's.

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Speaker 1: It's all pressed. Yeah, you don't have to sleep with

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Speaker 1: a partner to be intimate with a partner.

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Speaker 3: My grandparents, my grandpa sleeps on the couch and my

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Speaker 3: grandma sleeps in bed, and growing up that was normal

331
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Speaker 3: to me until I mentioned it to someone. They were like,

332
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Speaker 3: that's so weird. Yeah, is that weird?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: I mean it was really common in the fifties.

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Speaker 3: In the fifties and television whenever two people slept in

336
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Speaker 3: separate bands because that's what everyone died.

337
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Speaker 2: Well, just also in different eras of time. That was, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you like with kings and queens they would sleep in

339
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Speaker 2: different rooms.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Riley, it's the thing my butt just is destroying.

341
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Speaker 1: Maybe John will take my place for a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's on me, Mingming says preference, but communicate with

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Speaker 2: your partner. That's the thing. I think that he needs

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00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 2: to talk to his wife more and say like, hey,

345
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Speaker 2: I'm not leaving the bed because I don't like you

346
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 2: or something. It's because I'm still getting used to it,

347
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 2: just like let her know.

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00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we got a little bit more to the story. Oo,

349
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 1: so comprehensive, Roe says in the dead bedroom subreddit, which

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00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,440
Speaker 1: is as it's a real it's a real subredditing man.

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Speaker 1: People have to discussed how you lose spicy sleep familiarity

352
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,360
Speaker 1: with someone and may feel uninterested or repulsed. You might

353
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 1: have to rebuild it. Like you're new to each other

354
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: and dating in some ways, you're not the same people anymore.

355
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,160
Speaker 1: When you first met and we got some deleted updates.

356
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Speaker 2: Oh oh, people's like you can't know this. Yeah, And

357
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 2: then they found it anyway, because you can't delete anything online.

358
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Speaker 1: So uh. Former drinky dranker twenty seven male. I can't

359
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Speaker 1: get over the shame, even if my wife's thirty one

360
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,360
Speaker 1: female says she's proud of me two days later. I've

361
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 1: been sober for over a year, and got sober after

362
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Speaker 1: she served me divorce papers. She decided to reconcile last January,

363
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 1: and all the things have been not easy, to say

364
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 1: the least. We still sleep separately and I don't feel

365
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,399
Speaker 1: secure enough to have spicy sleep with her. We do

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Speaker 1: lots of individual and couple's therapy. We somehow are managing. However,

367
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 1: despite what she says, I can't get over the shame

368
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: that I have been a useless and emotionally bad drunkard

369
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,119
Speaker 1: and she probably remembers me as such, and the shame

370
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: and guilt is becoming unbearable. I work as a civil

371
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: servant in family Services, ironically enough, and recently I got

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00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 1: moved to the cabinet in the provincial government. Even had

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Speaker 1: a photo shaking hands with our prime minister. My wife

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00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 1: picked this photo and put it out on Facebook for

375
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Speaker 1: everyone to see, writing how proud she was. I do

376
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 1: think she genuinely believes this, and I'm happy, but I

377
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 1: also think she's too eager to sweep out the past

378
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,400
Speaker 1: and our problems that aren't fixed at all. I feel

379
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 1: a lot of shame and guilt towards her every time

380
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 1: I look at her, and at a certain point even

381
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: looked forward to divorce. I think this is a case

382
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,120
Speaker 1: of like someone not having enough self worth to believe

383
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 1: that they deserve this love and are like honestly trying

384
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 1: to find problems because they don't believe they can have

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Speaker 1: something this well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably what kind of played and the

387
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,600
Speaker 2: reason he started drinking. There was probably some of that

388
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 2: self loathing and stuff, and it's still there. Yeah. Man,

389
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 2: it's so hard because you like this person loves you

390
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 2: so much, and sometimes it's hard to see that.

391
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: But she insists I am doing all the right things

392
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 1: and if I love her, divorce would be something I'll

393
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 1: end up regretting. I just I can't help but feel

394
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: hopeless and even alone in my feelings. She wants for

395
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: us to move on, but while for her it might

396
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: be easy to forgive me, for me, it's not easy

397
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 1: to let go of the shame of what I was

398
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 1: to her. My therapist says, I have to deal with

399
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: it on my own, as I caused all this, and

400
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 1: I agree, but I don't know how to move forward.

401
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: Is there something I can do? Or should I learn

402
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 1: to accept this and live with it. Maybe with time

403
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: it will get better. After all, a year sober is

404
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 1: almost nothing and there is more. So it seems like

405
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: OP sabotage. Yeah, it's a little self sabotage. I feel

406
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: like the wife is already forgiven, yeah, and is trying

407
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: to like move towards intimacy. But OP doesn't think again

408
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 1: and again it.

409
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 2: Is like put cutting it off and stopping it.

410
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think is you know, a sign you

411
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: need more self therapy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Princess Tika too says,

412
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 1: but OP is self sabotaging himself a lot.

413
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 2: No, it seems like she, like the wife, has as

414
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: you said, forgiven him and is trying to move forward.

415
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think if you can't forgive yourself, it's

416
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: it is hard to move forward with another person.

417
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we got another update. So my twenty seven

418
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: male wife thirty one female wanted a divorce because I

419
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: was a drinking drinker. I got sober. She wants to reconcile,

420
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 1: and it makes me feel anxious. She had every right

421
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: to file for divorce because of my drankness. She didn't

422
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: deserve that, and in the meantime, I was sick of it,

423
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: so I stopped the drinking, focused on my career and

424
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: on renovating my father's house. She wanted to reconcile upon

425
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: seeing those changes, and I agreed. But now I'm realizing

426
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 1: I had internalized the divorce in my life plans. I

427
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: planned my new lease on life around it. I can't

428
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: see myself being intimate with her. She tried a couple

429
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: of times, and I gently turned her down. As a

430
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: jester of goodwill, I asked her if she wanted to

431
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: participate in my father's home renovation project, and she accepted

432
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: with enthusiasm. She always wanted a garden. Now I'm regretting

433
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: it because that was supposed to be my retreat from

434
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 1: the world, and I will have to share it with her.

435
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: I said all of this to her. She was upset,

436
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 1: but also understanding, and her opinion, part of the fault

437
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: is hers. She never communicated about reconciliation and sprung it

438
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: up on me, and as a result, what should have

439
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: been a happy thing became a source of stress and

440
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 1: anxiety for me. My therapist and her are saying this

441
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 1: is depression talking, but I'm not so sure. Are we

442
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: truly done? Yeah? I do think it's depression talking.

443
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

444
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: I feel like the wife has like fully moved on

445
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: and OP just can't.

446
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very just so sad, I mean, and also

447
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: I think that is I mean a lot of people

448
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: in the comments are saying this is some of the comments.

449
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: What do you got, Caitlyn bon Compen says Sophia. Yes,

450
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: forgiving yourself is the hardest part of recovery. He is

451
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: feeling everything I felt when getting sober and not your

452
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend says it's one day closer to never feeling

453
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: the worst in your life. Needs to shift perspective and

454
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: gain self worth. Yeah, and it's just going from this

455
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: just unimaginably hard point in your life where you were,

456
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 2: like where he was so low, like feeling so low

457
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: and also hurting other people and now just trying to

458
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 2: get out of that.

459
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: But we got an update. My twenty seven male wife

460
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: thirty one female wanted a divorce because I was a

461
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: drnker got sober. She wants to reconcile and it makes

462
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: me feel just one day later, so not really an update,

463
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: just a new development. I showed her the last thread.

464
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: She's reading it on her phone. She said she already

465
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: knew many of the things I wrote, including the comments

466
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: about gem and Flowers. She said if she knew the

467
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: anguish and reconciliation so soon would cause she wouldn't have

468
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: offered it and is regretting it. She thanks everyone for

469
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: the kind words and appreciation made towards her. At the

470
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: same time, she got upset in her opinion because, in

471
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: her opinion, I put things worse than they are, so

472
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: either I exaggerated them or I've been keeping my true

473
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: feelings from her, and this is a problem. For example,

474
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: she says, I'm not as cold as I'm making myself

475
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: up to be, and that she's not as pushy as

476
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: I make her to be, and in fact, she's been

477
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: giving me lots of space. She says, I'm doing weird

478
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: self sabotage here, that's what we said. She says, I'm

479
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: trying to get her to leave me, but it won't happen,

480
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: and if I really want to end it, I have

481
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: to do it myself. She doesn't agree with it, but

482
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: if I want to move out, she won't oppose it.

483
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: She wasn't angry, just very numb.

484
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: Oh yea to push her away because he feels like

485
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 2: he's hurting her, and he's still hurting her.

486
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: Now we have an update. Thirteen years are not easy,

487
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: but overall they are going well, both therapy and everyday life.

488
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: There are still some issues in getting intimate, but we

489
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: are getting there. Sometimes, though, the shame and guilt become

490
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: too much, and I wonder why she's even staying with me.

491
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,679
Speaker 1: Maybe some costs. I do my best. Little gift states,

492
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: cooking her favorite dishes, picking up chores, but to me,

493
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: it always feels like I could do more. I think again,

494
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: it's the maybe, like the depression docking. Sometimes she notices

495
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: this and says, take it easy. She says I try

496
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: too hard sometimes and it comes off as artificial. She

497
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: likes that now I'm all smiles, always shaved, well dressed,

498
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: and gentlemanly with her, but joke that sometimes I look

499
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: like the president of her country of origin. I'm doing

500
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: my best, though, even at the cost of overdoing it.

501
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: And historical option in the comment says you should really

502
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: talk to a therapist and get longitudal guidances. Guidance. You're

503
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: doing too much and it'll come across as cringe and overbearing. Hope.

504
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: He responds, we were doing therapy, but so far it's

505
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: still very early. I was very apathetic about everything, so

506
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: now I try my best to be enthusiastic about things.

507
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: She usually likes it, but once I made a dance step,

508
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: she laughed and said, what the heck was that?

509
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: So Opie's like trying to find this balance and is

510
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: going from apathy to just just masking everything. And it's

511
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: it's it's it's gonna take a minute for you to

512
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: find where that balance is.

513
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it sounds like she's okay, she's gonna be

514
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: a time while you find it out.

515
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, these commenters need to be a little bit, a

516
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: little bit nice so we don't have to say he's

517
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: being cringe.

518
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's being cringe. Sad Tune or

519
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: twenty one sixty nine says, get a new therapist. He

520
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: told you you're on your own. That sounds a bit unethical.

521
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: Your wife loves you and wants you to heal. She

522
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: is doing everything she can. It seems to help you

523
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: towards that goal. Seems you need to forgive yourself before

524
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: you make a decision about your relationship. Ope, you we

525
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: sons somewhat she told me to get a grip on

526
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: those feelings or all end up self sabotaging and ruining everything.

527
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: Caterpill training one says, that doesn't sound like she said

528
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: you're on your own at all. Sometimes you need help

529
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: of others to get a grip.

530
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: That's it. That is interesting because I was wondering about

531
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: that that, you know, the therapist saying that, and maybe

532
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: based off of this common it seems like, oh, he

533
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: might have kind of skewed what the therapist said in

534
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 2: his mind.

535
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: Nurse Aaron says, I know he's in therapy, but I'm

536
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: thinking he may need to start a medication to assist.

537
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: Might he might be on it?

538
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: I was, yeah, he might be on it, but I

539
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: was with a friend talking about like SSR eyes that

540
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: was just like for like depression medication, and something that

541
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: he was saying is like sometimes when you've been depressed

542
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: for so long, you don't realize what feeling good can

543
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: feel like, and like it's he said, he like, oh,

544
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, I don't unnecessarily want to be dependent on

545
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: the medication, but using it as a reminder to understand like, oh,

546
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: like this doesn't have to be my baseline. I can

547
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: feel like it is within me to feel good about

548
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: myself and my situation. Like that that can be a

549
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: good reminder to like get back out of depression. Nicki

550
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: Bordeaux says, sounds like, oh, he has issues with moderation.

551
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: He's going from one extreme to another with his relationship

552
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: with addiction. That's a really good Yeah.

553
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: Well, he's like if we if we're not back to

554
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 2: where we were, then maybe we should just break up again.

555
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: And it takes time, and then Nurse Aaron says exactly, Sam,

556
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: I'm actually a psych nurse. I hear this a lot.

557
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: And Sophia Calloon says, No, it's not addictive, it's necessary.

558
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: If you need it, you can't get out of it

559
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: if you have the distorer. I think it. I mean

560
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: it depends on I think from person to person. Yeah,

561
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: with depression, because some people obviously need like medication that they.

562
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I also think like a lot of like

563
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: negative emotions that we feel are pointing us in a

564
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: direction to feel better about our situation. You know, like

565
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: often like like I felt this, Like I was thinking

566
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: about this myself recently, where it's like I, you know,

567
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: like in times of like when I feel lonely, Right,

568
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: what that feeling of loneliness is saying to me is

569
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: go seek connection, Like go like hang out with your friends,

570
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: we like, poke your sister and be like, let's watch

571
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: Walking Dead together. Right if instead you satiate that with

572
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: like watching you know, a movie or like I don't know,

573
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: doing something that doesn't act like that numbs that wanting

574
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: that the feeling of desiring connection instead of like actually

575
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: solves it. I think you can get into this habit

576
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: of just like numbing instead of actually letting that emotion

577
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: feel completely like run through you completely and then acting

578
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: on it. And Sophia Callan says, but disorders aren't normal emotions,

579
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: it's normal. Yeah, exactly. This is not comparing op like,

580
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: this is not saying that he shouldn't need it.

581
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: But now I get your point. I think there like

582
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: we're kind of taught like Sophia Colonne and other people

583
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: are talking about different because there's medically you know, medically

584
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: diagnosed depression, whereas that's something that you literally like need

585
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: need meds for. Yeah, and then there's going through a

586
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: really hard time. Yeah, and that's not necessarily a medical

587
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: diagnosis and stuff like that, so there's like different, yeah,

588
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: different approaches to both of those.

589
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: Are you ready? We got another update, so I ripped

590
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: my wife's divorcedapers three days later, two months ago. Things

591
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: are going luke warmly well. Talks of reinitiating divorce proceedings

592
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: have stopped, and although we still sleep separately and have

593
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: no intimacy, my issues working on it with my therapists.

594
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: We are doing well.

595
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

596
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel I can't get over the shame that

597
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: I have been a useless and abusive drunkard, and she

598
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: probably remembers me as such, and the shame and guilt

599
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: become unbearable, but and then it passes a bit. Basically,

600
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: we're starting over dating, doing bonding activities. I get her

601
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: gifts and surprises. She admitted she thought things would go faster,

602
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: but in the end agrees with me that after a

603
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: year of separation, things can't just get back as before.

604
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: She also says I am too hard on myself, but

605
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 1: I think she's the one being too indulgent. But apart

606
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: from those difficulties, we are doing fine, we got some comments,

607
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: so Taiwan Bandit says, basically, we're starting over at dating,

608
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: doing bonding activities. They say, I've been following your story

609
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: and happy you seem to be making progress. You both

610
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: have been through a lot of turmoil, but have stuck

611
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: with each other for the most part, So keep at it.

612
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: Seek therapy to help along the road. I think once

613
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: you get over the intimacy blockage, you will be much

614
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: better off as a couple. Keep working at an OP,

615
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: take care and ope respond thank you. I have hope,

616
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: but sometimes I feel like we are stuck or that

617
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: we are delaying the inevitable. Although I feel like this

618
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: only occasionally, and Taiwan Bandit says a break through the

619
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: wall op, I think you can make this work. Update

620
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: three