1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Why did it take a documentary, a Hollywood documentary to 2 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: convince the world what so many of us knew at 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: the time, And we're berated. I recall I got to 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: hate mail, death threats, low works. First thing. Hey, I'm 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: a Jackson fan, but Jackson's a molester. BAM crime stories 6 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. It just isn't fair what they put 7 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: me through because there wasn't one piece of information that 8 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: says I did that. But let me ask to this day, 9 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: nothing still nothing. Let me ask nothing, nothing nothing nothing, 10 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: I got nothing, I guess, let me ask this. And 11 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think how to phrase it. Though, here 12 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: is a man who's been in an inordinate amount of 13 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: time with these young boys. What is a thirty six 14 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: year old man doing sleeping with a twelve year old 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: boy or a series of them? Right, Okay, when you 16 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,279 Speaker 1: say boys, it's not just boys. And I've never invited 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: to get some boys to come in my room. One. 18 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, not that ridiculous according to California prosecutors, and 19 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: not that ridiculous according to a Bombshell documentary Michael Jackson. 20 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: There is no doubt about it was one of the 21 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: most talented musicians in the world. But he was a 22 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: child molester. What if anything can be done now? I mean, 23 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for being 24 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: with us. Believe it or not, the debate still rages 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: an you know, it's like the improverse clothes. He has 26 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: one little boy after the next in his bed overnight, 27 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: drinking wine with the little boy. What can nobody see? 28 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: What was happening? Joining me an all star panel. Stephen Lampley, detective, 29 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: author of Outside Your Door, host of crime and forensics 30 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: on casey AA LA Stephen Lampley dot com. Jason Ocean's 31 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney. Joining me from New York Psychoanais, Doctor 32 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Francy Haiks, former 33 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, first ever National Coordinator for Child Exploitation Prevention 34 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: and Interdiction at Francy Hikes dot com. Professor Forensics, jacksonvill 35 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. 36 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan but right now to Alexis Terrazchuk in 37 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: the middle of it. Joining me from LA investigative reporter 38 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: Radar Online dot com. Alexis I don't get it. You 39 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: had victims lined up saying he molested me when I 40 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: was a boy. He shows up to court at his pajamas. 41 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: He still gets not guilty from a jury. Then, years later, 42 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: after Jackson is dead, thanks Conrad Murray, his doctor, suddenly 43 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: there's a Hollywood documentary. Everybody goes, oh, yeah, he was 44 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: a molester. I believe it. Now what, let's just start 45 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: with the documentary. Everybody wanted to meet Michael or be 46 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: with Michael, and then he likes you. I was seven 47 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: years old. Michael asked, do you and the family want 48 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: to come to Neverland? We'd drive in and forget about 49 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: all your problems. You were in Neverland. It was a fantasy. 50 00:03:52,600 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: The days were filled with magical childhood adventure experiences, laying tag, 51 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: watching movies, eating junk food, anything you could ever want 52 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: as a child. It's like hanging out with a friend 53 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: that's more your age, just kid things. They were just 54 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: doing kid things. He just came across as a loving, caring, 55 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: kind song. It was easy to believe that he was 56 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: just that kind of a storybook, right, I'm a fairy tale. Hello, Wade, 57 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: today is your birthday, So congratulations. I love you go by, 58 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: there's no thoughts of this is wrong or anything like that. 59 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: Told me if they ever found out what we were doing, 60 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: he and I would go to jail for the rest 61 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: of our lives. Secrets will eat you up. You feel 62 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: so alone. I want to be able to speak the 63 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: truth as loud as I had to speak the lie 64 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: for so long you are hearing Leaving Neverland the documentary, 65 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: Alexis tell me why the documentary was so powerful it 66 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: has now changed public opinion. Leaving Neverland was the documentary 67 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: that was released at Sundance and Sundance Film Festival, and 68 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: it was It had two of Michael Jackson's Vixen victims, 69 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: and they laid bare what they said happened to them. 70 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: It was so traumatizing. I was at the premiere for this. 71 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: They had counselors in the outside the theater for people 72 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: if they were feeling traumatized by this show. Because these 73 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: men who had been they were men. Now these were 74 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: not They were no longer boys. This happened fifteen years 75 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: ago to them. These were men in their thirties. They 76 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: described the actions of Michael Jackson and how he molested them, 77 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: and they both said about Alexis Tourez Chuck, Alexis Toures Chuck. 78 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: Do you think this is a tea party? You think 79 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: the queen and a Corgi's are going to march in 80 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: in about five minutes and you're gonna sit down, sit 81 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: to some earl grey because that ain't happening. What did 82 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: the men say happened to them when they were little 83 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: boys with Michael Jackson? They don't spare me details, No, 84 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: what did they say exactly? They said that Michael Jackson 85 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: raped them. They said that he molested them, that he 86 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: fondled their genitals. They were very specific about how they 87 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: would be in the bed with him, and that he 88 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: would sexually assault him. Take a listen, Michael Jackson. You 89 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: earlier heard him with Diane Sawyer, or here he is 90 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,119 Speaker 1: with Ed Bradling, And I'm gonna quote here. Why can't 91 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: you share your bed? The most loving thing to do 92 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: is to share your bed with with someone. As we 93 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: sit here today, do you still think that it's acceptable 94 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: to share your bed with children? Of course, of course, 95 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: why not? If you're going to be a pedophile, if 96 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: you're going to be Jack the Ripper, if you're going 97 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: to be a murderer. It's not a good idea that 98 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,119 Speaker 1: I'm not. That's how we were raised. And I didn't 99 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: sleep in the bed, but the child. Even if I did, 100 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: it's okay. I set up on the floor. I gave 101 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: the bed to the child. I would never stop helping 102 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: and loving people the way Jesus said to He said, 103 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: continue to love, always love, Bring on the children, imitate 104 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: the children. My childish but childlike. Well, what's wrong with 105 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: sharing your bed? I had set up in the bed. 106 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: Even if I dissip in the bed, it's okay. I 107 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: am not going to do anything sexual to a child. 108 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: It's not where my heart is. I will slip my 109 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: wrist verse. I would never do anything like that. Let's 110 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: not Michael Jackson. I'm sorry. That's someone else. Okay. So 111 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: who do I believe him? Or all the people now 112 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: lining up saying yes it did happen, people that worked 113 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: for him there in Neverland, that saw him molesting children. So, daughter, 114 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, I hate to drag you away from 115 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: all your millionaire clients there in rodeo drive trying to 116 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: figure out which pair of Lubetans to buy. Not judging, 117 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: but can I use your substantial brain tell me why 118 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: everybody drags Jesus into the middle of everything. Here We've 119 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: got an accused child molester and he has to drag 120 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: Jesus into it. You think Jesus is happy about that? 121 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: And I'm certainly don't have a leg to stand on. 122 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: Not speaking for Jesus, of course, I don't think you 123 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: would like that very much. But why why does Jesus 124 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: always You know, I'll never forget when I first started 125 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: prosecuting Bethany, I always wear my cross, and I got 126 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: a sign to a courtroom, one of the busiest courtrooms 127 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: in inner city Atlanta, Colton County Courthouse. And as soon 128 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: as the defendants saw my cross. The next week, the 129 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: first one came in, I would do pretrial negotiations with 130 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: the defendant himself and his lawyer. The first one came 131 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: in with a giant woven cross out of felt or 132 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: yarn around his neck. I mean big, like, you know, 133 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: eight inches long, big hanging around his neck. And I 134 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: took a look at it and just kept going. The 135 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: next one came in with a yarn cross around his neck. 136 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: Then the next one, Okay, you know, I still remember 137 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: that moment and it was all with the public defendant. 138 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: I said, what did you tell all your clients in 139 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: the jail to do? Are these even the same cross? 140 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: I mean they're all read well what you think? No, 141 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: it's not working. I'm not an that much of an idiot. 142 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: So why do they always drag Jesus into it? Nancy? 143 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: I think that's really a part of unadulterated grandiosity. So 144 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: if we back up for a second, if these allegations 145 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: are true, and evidently they are, these young men came forward, 146 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: we could look at this through the lens of pedophilia 147 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson being a sex offender. And the definition 148 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: of pedophilia is that there is more than five years 149 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: age difference between the perpetrator and the victim. The victims 150 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: are generally prepubescent, although the age may vary, and the 151 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: perpetrator attaches themselves sexually to the victim until the victim 152 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: grows up and ages out, and then they choose newer, 153 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: younger victims. So we're thinking about this in terms of pedophilia, 154 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: but let's think about it in terms of criminality, which 155 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: is what you're talking about. Criminals are very grandiose. They 156 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: want to be sitting at the right hand of God, 157 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: because then they can justify their actions. I mean, who 158 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: can argue with you if you're God's emissary, if you're 159 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: praying to God's every day, and if when you give 160 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: your the children your molesting wine, you call it Jesus juice. 161 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: Do you remember that Michael Jackson called the wine Jesus juice? 162 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: So he was fond of calling upon the name of 163 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: the Lord, let's say, in order to justify his actions. 164 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Michael Jackson got out of 165 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: a car behind the Santa Barbara County Jail in handcuffs. 166 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: His lawyer said, the singer is enraged. He considers this 167 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: to be a big lie. He understand the people who 168 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: are outraged, because if these charges were true, I assure 169 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: you Michael would be the first to be outraged. Jackson 170 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: had arrived on a private jet from Las Vegas. The 171 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: plane rolled its nose into a hangar, where Jackson got 172 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: into a waiting car out of view of television cameras. 173 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: He was taken into custody there at the airport. Jackson 174 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: had his mug shot taken and he was fingerprinted. Here 175 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: at the county jail, before he posted a three million 176 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: dollar bond. You are hearing what happened when Jackson pulled 177 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: in and stepped out of a private hangar in a 178 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: private jet. This is ABC News correspondent Brian Mooney. So Jason, 179 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: notions New York defense attorney, why is he so outraged? 180 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: He's charged with felony child molestation? Boy witnesses are aligned 181 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: up to testify what he thinks. He shouldn't be fingerprinted 182 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: and the reason photos were taken of his nude body, 183 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: I might add, is because there were, according to police, 184 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: identifiable markings in his growing area. I think, as I recall, 185 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: I had something to do with a skin disorder that 186 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: the little boys could describe. So what are they? Why 187 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: are they able? It's like you're in Vanderslout describing alle 188 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: Halloway's underwear. Why why would they know about skin markings 189 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: or discoloration in his genital area? Jason? Why shouldn't he 190 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: be handcuffed, fingerprinted and photos? Well he should have been. 191 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: He was. He was charged and arrested and processed that well, 192 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: So why is gey Goes so angry? Quote outraged? In rage? 193 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: That's uh, that's the job. I mean, you're you're you're 194 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: playing towards the media. I mean, this isn't just a 195 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: small town case. This is huge. This is theater, it's production. 196 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: Everything is about to Michael Jackson. Uh, you know, why 197 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't you be outraged on the behalf of your client 198 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: and indignant much like he was in the Ed Bradley interview. Uh, 199 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: much more soft spoken than uh, you know, defense counsel 200 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: Garrit Goes. But nonetheless the angle that you have Michael's 201 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: card was, you know, the lord and acting childlike and 202 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: Garat Gos's you know, just indignant. This is Michael Jackson. 203 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: I could you possibly think that? Well? As a matter 204 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: of fact, he was arrested. Take a listen to the 205 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: District attorney. Yesterday morning, at around eight thirty am, investigators 206 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: from the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department in Santa Barbara 207 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: District Attorney's Office served the search warrant at Neverland Ranch 208 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: and Los of Levos. Simultaneous to the service of the 209 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: warrant at Neverland Ranch, two search warrants were also served 210 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: in southern California. Approximately seventy investigators from the Sheriff's Department 211 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: and the District Attorney's office were involved in the service 212 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: of this warrant at Neverland Ranch. The operation was concluded 213 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: around eleven pm last night. The service of the warrants 214 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: was part of an ongoing investigation alleging the criminal misconduct 215 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: on the part of Michael Jackson. The basis for this 216 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: investigation regarding mister Jackson involves allegations of child molestation to 217 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: eighty eight A of the California Petal Code. Additionally, I 218 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: don't know, rest warrant for mister Jackson has been issued 219 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: on multiple accounts of child molestation. The bail amount on 220 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: the warrant has been set at three million dollars too. 221 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: Just Ascott Morgan, forensics expert, exactly what are they looking 222 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: for at Neverland Ranch. Well, they're going to look for 223 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: anything that's going to tie Michael Jackson back to these 224 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: crimes that he is alleged to have committed. And we're 225 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: talking about any kind of videography evidence if he film anything. 226 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: Is there any kind of fiscal evidence that's been left 227 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: behind that would tie him back to these activities that 228 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: he's involved in relative to these kids, and also is 229 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: there any kind of are there any kind of pornographic 230 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: images that are there let's say, for instance, child pornography. 231 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: That's there because many times these individuals that engage in 232 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: this behavior are collectors. They fantasize about this, They think 233 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: about this all the time, so they go around collecting things. 234 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: And if he's got specific victims, is there a chance 235 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: that he photographed them, Is there a chance that he 236 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: videotaped them so he could go back and relive these experiences. Well, 237 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: of course, this was not the first time Superstar Michael 238 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: Jackson had been investigated. Listen, I want to make several 239 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: things clear about why this is different from the last investigation. 240 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: Number One, it is different because the law in California 241 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: has changed, and it was changed specifically because of the 242 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three ninety four Michael Jackson investigation. The law 243 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: in California at that time provided that a child victim 244 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: could not be forced to testify in a child molesque 245 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: proceedings without their permission and consent and cooperation. As a 246 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: result of the Michael Jackson case, the legislature changed that 247 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: law and that is no longer the law in California. Secondly, 248 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: as you all know, or most of you know, either 249 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: from being involved or knowing about that investigation. There were 250 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: never any charges brought in that investigation nor warrant issue. 251 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,479 Speaker 1: There is a warrant outstanding, and I can assure you 252 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: that within a very short period of time, there will 253 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: be charges filed against mister Jackson multiple counts. Two Radar 254 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Terreschuk ninety four. None 255 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: of the witnesses would testify, they would not come forward, 256 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: but things started to change. Let me ask you in 257 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: the ninety three ninety four investigation, what were the allegations 258 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: the same as every other allegation that he had him 259 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: in a bad that he slept with him, that he 260 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: followed him, that he sexually assaulted him to Stephen Lampley, 261 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: detective and author of Outside Your Door, host of crime 262 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: and Forensics casey A in La. Stephen, do we know 263 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: the name of the alleged victim in ninety three, Yeah, 264 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: that was a twelve year old boy named Jordan Chandler Nancy. 265 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: I assume he would not testify. He did give a 266 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: description of Jackson's genitals and have been presented to the 267 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: jury along with the actual description of Mike's Michael's genitals. 268 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: The jurors felt that they did not match in this instance, 269 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: but Jackson went ahead and settled for twenty three million 270 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: dollars with the understanding that this was not admitting guilt. 271 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: This is just, you know, to get rid of the 272 00:18:47,240 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: trial and let's go back to living our lives frid 273 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Did you ever, as this young 274 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: boy said you did, did you ever sexually engage fondle 275 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: have sexual contact with this child or any other child? 276 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: Never ever. I could never harm a child or anyone. 277 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: It's not in my heart. It's not who I am, 278 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: and it's not what I mean. I'm not even interested 279 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: in that. Why did you settle the case? And it 280 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: looks to everyone as if you paid a huge amount 281 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: of money that I talked to my lawyers and I said, 282 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: can you guarantee me that justice will prevail? And they said, Michael, 283 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: we cannot guarantee you that a judge or a jury 284 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: will do anything. And with that I was like catatonic. 285 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: I was outraged. How much money? Totally outrage. So what 286 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: I said, I have got to do so something to 287 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: get out from under this nightmare. We got together again 288 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: with my advisors and the advised meets hands down a 289 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: unanimous decision resolved the case. This could be something that 290 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: could go on for seven years. Okay, do you believe 291 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: him or do you believe this? Okay? Okay. He said 292 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: he want to show me, master me. He wanted to 293 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: show you how to master pay. Okay, okay, he said, 294 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: you do it for me? Okay, and did you do 295 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: it for you? Go get cabin. It's fine, but he's 296 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: hand in pats. Did you put it on the outside inside? 297 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: And what did you do next? He started started master me? Okay, yes, 298 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: stop until that is just one of the reason you 299 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: charges were brought. After the twenty three million dollar settlement 300 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: with another little boy's family, You were hearing sex victim 301 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: then a little boy, Gavin or Viso speaking to police 302 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: to Francy Hayks joining me, former federal prosecutor, Francy, it 303 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: just it just makes my skin, the here on my 304 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: neck just rises up just hearing this. You think they 305 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: wanted to go up against Michael Jackson. No, but when 306 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: you hear a victim speak about what Jackson did to him, 307 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: you have to seek justice. Why that jury let Jackson go, 308 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: I will never know. But this is a kind of 309 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: interview you hear every day Francy. Well, that's right, Nancy, 310 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: And one of the most significant things we just heard 311 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: was from Michael Jackson himself when he was answering questions, 312 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: I would never harm a child. This is classic defense 313 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: from those of the sexual interests in children, because they 314 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: truly believe that their sexual interests in children is reciprocated 315 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: by the child, and that that kind of sexual activity, 316 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: but that illegal sexual activity, that deviant sexual activity between 317 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: them and children, isn't harmful to the child. So Michael 318 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: Jackson may very well have been telling his version of 319 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: the truth that he did not harm a child, because 320 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: in his mind, sexual abuse of children isn't harmful, but 321 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: it absolutely makes your skin crawl. And these children all 322 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: tell the same consistent story of the pattern and practice 323 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson, which is classic grooming behavior, bringing the 324 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: children in, plying them with alcohol, bringing them to the ranch, 325 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: providing them with gifts, giving himself this kind of stature. 326 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: He is a classic acquaintance defender, and the jury just 327 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: simply could not withstand the wattage of his star power 328 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: and they disregarded the true story of these children. Well, 329 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: you were hearing Gavin Arvizo describing what Jackson did to 330 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: him as a little boy. Now take a listen to 331 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: our friend at CBS, Gail King as she speaks with 332 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: another then boy, Wade Robson that first night, Michael just 333 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: kind of took us on a little bit of a 334 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: tour and he said to me and my sister, you 335 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: can stay in one of the guest rooms, or you 336 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: can stay in here with me if you want. And 337 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: my reaction was, of course, I want to stay with you. 338 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: We had one more night that way, myself and my 339 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: family were going to leave and go on another kind 340 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: of vacation to the Grand Canyon. I was devastated to 341 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: leave Michael. Michael was devastated for me to leave. He 342 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: actually sobbed, say you got to stay, So I got 343 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: to stay. And so it was just Michael and I 344 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: never landed for the next week, and your parents allowed that. 345 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: My parents allowed that. Within even the first or second 346 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: night of Michael and I being alone at Neverland, the 347 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: night started changing. One of the ways I remember it 348 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: starting is, you know, Michael just sort of starting to 349 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: touch my legs and touch my crotch over my pants. 350 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: It progressed to him performing oral sex on me, him 351 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: showing me how to perform oral sex on him. It's 352 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: I don't even know how to respond to that exactly 353 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. I know I'm way overprotective, 354 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: but why would you leave your child with a grown 355 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: man and let him sleep in the room with him? Nancy, 356 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: It's inexplicable to me that any parent would do this. 357 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: You know, they must have been swayed by his celebrity. 358 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: They must have imagined that nothing would go wrong. But 359 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, the Neverland ranch was there to groom children 360 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: and their families, right, because this is what pedophiles do. 361 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: They don't just groom the child like with Robson. You know, 362 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: his sister was there, his entire family was there. In 363 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: almost every victim instance, the entire family was brought to Neverland. 364 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: And I think that not only did he prey on children, 365 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: but he preyed on vulnerable families. You might want to think, Nancy, 366 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: that for every family who allowed their child to spend 367 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: the night, there may have been twenty others who didn't. 368 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: So these sex offenders, like Michael Jackson there are prolific 369 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: in their offending. There's one stat that male on boy 370 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: sex offenders offend on average five hundred and sixty two 371 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: times throughout the lifespan. So we're just seeing the outliers, 372 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: these parents that turned the blind eye. But it would 373 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: be interesting to know about all the kids that got 374 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: away and all the parents that said no. And we're 375 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: protective of their of their children. That's another story, right, Well, 376 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: it just goes on and on. His pool of victims 377 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: is very far reaching. Listen to our frankielle King. He 378 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: introduced me to masturbation, he said, I taught him out 379 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: of French kiss, and then it moves on to oral sex. 380 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: But you frightened or thinking this is weird or wrong. No, No, 381 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: it's in the context of a loving, close relationships and 382 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: there's no alarm bells going off in your head or 383 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: any thoughts like that. Really, it's just I love this 384 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: person and we're trying to make each other happy. He said, 385 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: I was his first. But even as a kid, you 386 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: don't even know what that means. So your lovers and 387 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: your best friends, what does it mean? James, you're in 388 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: a relationship and your lovers you're a little boy, right 389 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: and he's a thirty something man and you're a little boy. 390 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: Because at that age. How do you even know what 391 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: that means? You don't You just feel really connected to 392 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: someone and you just love them intensely. Crime Stories with 393 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. He introduced me to masturbation, he said, I 394 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: taught him out of French kiss, and then it moves 395 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: on to oral sex. But it's you frightened or thinking 396 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: this is weird or wrong. No, no, it's in the 397 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: context of a loving, close relationships and there's no alarm 398 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: bells going off in your head or any thoughts like that. Really, 399 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: it's just I love this person and we're trying to 400 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: make each other happy. He said. I was his first. 401 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: But even as a kid, you don't even know what 402 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: that means. So your lovers and your best friends, what 403 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: does it mean, James, you're in a relationship and your 404 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: lovers you're a little boy, and he's a thirty something 405 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: man and you're a little boy. Because at that age, 406 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: how do you even know what that means? You don't 407 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: You just feel really connected to someone and you just 408 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: love them intensely. Well, that was yet another then boy 409 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: victim James save Chuck speaking to Gail King. It goes 410 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: on and on. What I don't understand is how a 411 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: jury managed to turn away from the evidence. Alexis to 412 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: rest Chuck joining US investigative reporter Radar online dot com. Alexis, 413 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: what exactly were the charges the second set of charges, 414 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: they were childless seas and child assaults to Francy Haig, 415 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor way In Francy Well Nancy. They were 416 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: California's version of statutes you and I would be very 417 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: familiar with from Georgia, which would have been sixteen dash 418 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: six dash four child molestation that is actually engaging in 419 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: some kind of illicit sexual activity with a child. They 420 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: have very specific definitions, and here the definitions included actually 421 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: touching the genitals of the child and performing oral sex 422 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: on the child, and having the child perform oral sex 423 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: on Michael Jackson. There were very serious charges, and what's 424 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: so unbelievable to me is that a jury just completely 425 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: disregarded the consistent testimony of the child and his brother 426 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: and his family members, especially when you take into context 427 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 1: all the statements that by that point Michael Jackson had 428 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: made that he didn't even hide about sleeping with children. 429 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: I think this is pure and simple. This was a 430 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: case of jury nullification. I think that It is a 431 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: classic example, Nancy that you and I would have faced 432 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: as prosecutors in the nineties, where you had juries who 433 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: just did not want to believe children. They did not 434 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: want to believe child sexual abuse existed. And when you 435 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: took a celebrity and put him in that mix, there 436 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: was no way that we're going to convict someone of 437 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: a crime that they didn't understand, didn't want to look at, 438 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: and didn't even think existed. Let me respond with the 439 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: actual charges against Michael Jackson. Now we know the investigation 440 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: in ninety four led to nothing, but Jackson was ultimately 441 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: indicted on four counts of molesting a minor, four counts 442 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: of intoxicating a minor in order to molest him, one 443 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring to 444 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: hold a boy in his family captive, and conspiring to 445 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: commit extortion and child abduction. Jackson found not guilty on 446 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: all of these. To Alexis Terrez, Chuck and regular people talk, 447 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: what does all that? Who was the victim in the 448 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: ultimate charges. The victim was a boy named Gavin r Viso. 449 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: He and Michael Jackson had met. He had cancer. Michael 450 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: Jackson found out that this little boy had cancer, started 451 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: sending his family gifts and showering them with attention. Then 452 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: brought them to Neverland. They brought Gavin, his brother, his mom, 453 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: and his dad. They all testified during this trial. And 454 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: though everybody is saying is they don't understand jury nullification. 455 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: What happened was for some reason, this jury hated Gavin's mother. 456 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: They said that she was combative on the stand. They 457 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: didn't like her, and they believed that she had made 458 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: her son lie about this. This is what a juror 459 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: from Santa Monca, California said, I could never imagine being 460 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: the kind of mother who would have the more who 461 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: would teach my children such bad morals. They believe that 462 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: this mom told her son to lie about it, and 463 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: they kept saying it was for money. Gavin's family never 464 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: asked Michael Jackson for any money. This was something that 465 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: his lawyer said on the sand. There was no evidence 466 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: to this, and this is what the jurors believed at 467 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: the time. What did they mean in the charges by 468 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive and 469 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: conspiring to commit extortion and child abduction so he was 470 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: They were saying that they brought them to Neverland and 471 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: that they didn't have a lot of money. Michael Jackson 472 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: obviously had a ton of money, and that he wouldn't 473 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: let them leave, and he kept saying, Oh, no, just 474 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: stay here, just stay here. It won't be anything. So 475 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: the prosecutors had said that he held them captive, and 476 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: then he would say, Oh, don't tell anybody, because the 477 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: media will turn all this into something bad, and that 478 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: is the extortion. The police will look at me and 479 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: they all think this is bad when this is just 480 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: something so wonderful at innocent, as Michael Jackson always says, 481 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: did jury dislike Gavin's mom take a listen to ABCGMA. 482 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: She would look at the jury and its and after 483 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: figures and say, you know, this is the way it 484 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: should be. Yes. That was very expimidating because I was 485 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: directly Mike and I were directly across from the witnesses, 486 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: and she would turn right to us like she's just 487 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, but Melissa, what did that say to you? 488 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: I mean, apart from how it made your fit, what 489 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: did that say to you about what who she was? 490 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: And the testimony she gave m her testimony, A lot 491 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: of the parts of her testimony. I wanted to just 492 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: break out laughing, but I couldn't. You know, her m 493 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: she was up and down, up and down, and the 494 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: parts that I felt that she should have been more, 495 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, more emotional about, she wasn't. So it's just 496 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: not incredible your thing. That's just so hard for me 497 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: to take. In to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst in Beverly Hills, 498 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: I wonder how that juror feels now after leaving Neverland 499 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: the documentary comes out. It persuades the world Jackson was 500 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: a child molester, and she says the molestation of victim's 501 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: mother made her want to break out laughing. You know, Nancy, 502 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: there's a saying in the field of law, there are 503 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: no model plaintiffs, right. Just because you bring somebody in 504 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: as a plaintiff doesn't mean that they're likable. And this 505 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: juror should feels shame. She fixated on Gavin's mother's personality 506 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: characteristics rather than the fact that a little boy was 507 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: likely molested. And this is a common mistake the jurors make. 508 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: And if I'm correct about this, Gavin's mother was also 509 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: unwelfare and Mather wove this long tail and dug into 510 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: the mother's history and found out that she had committed 511 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: some kind of welfare fraud, and he paraded this in 512 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: front of the jury, and he convinced him that the 513 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: mother was not trustworthy, that she was unlikable. And the 514 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: jurors got so fixated on the mother's character traits that 515 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: they were blinded and they did not look to the 516 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: reality of what might be happening. And Nancy the re 517 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: he was right in front of them. I mean, Neverland 518 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: was a pedophiles playground. As I said earlier, he used 519 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: it money to Broomschidren. I mean he had a fairris 520 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: wheel and you know, a whole whole circus, fairround set 521 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: up over there. But he used it to groom the 522 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: entire family, and instead, sadly, the jurors fixated on the 523 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: mother's character rather than the child's testimony. Tomorrow on crime 524 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, one little boy after the next 525 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: in his bed overnight, drinking wine with the little boy. 526 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: What did nobody see what was happening? Why did it 527 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: take a documentary, a Hollywood documentary to convince the world. 528 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's sex abuse accusers can now sue his company's 529 00:35:53,840 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: following a court appeal, We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy 530 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: Grace crime story, signing off goodbye friend M.