Speaker 1: Tapeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and the NFL.
Speaker 1: The draft is finally in the books, and so we
Speaker 1: have a draft to react to here on TAPEDS Draft season.
Speaker 1: Baba Shu was a longtime radio voice of the New
Speaker 1: York Jets and also college football for ESPN for years
Speaker 1: and years and years and years and for decades and
Speaker 1: decades and decades. Breaking down the old twenty two for
Speaker 1: NFL films is Greg Costel, who Greg, I'm just happy
Speaker 1: that you've made it to the finish line with me,
Speaker 1: you know, at your advanced age, to get all the
Speaker 1: way through the draft. I think it's impressive that we've
Speaker 1: made it this far together. Well, you know, if I
Speaker 1: just to you how crazy I am. I'm still gonna
Speaker 1: take one more week and watch some guys that I
Speaker 1: missed now that I've seen the draft. So fortunately there
Speaker 1: were always three guys in the first uh three rounds,
Speaker 1: three players that I had not seen in the first
Speaker 1: three rounds. Because I think I'm up to about two
Speaker 1: guys now that I've seen and in my one man
Speaker 1: scouting service, So you know, it's it takes a little time.
Speaker 1: As you know, Yeah, you're you're the definition of unwell,
Speaker 1: which is not how to guest to try to balance
Speaker 1: this out, and it is the incomparable Charles Davis, who
Speaker 1: joins us here on te Pets draft season. Of course,
Speaker 1: on CBS during the NFL season you'll hear analizing games,
Speaker 1: but of course on the NFL network he was covering
Speaker 1: the trap put out mock drafts all the way leading
Speaker 1: up to the draft. So broke down these prospects, Greg,
Speaker 1: probably about as deeply as you did. And Charles, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for doing this with us. We appreciate it. Hey, Bob, Greg,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. This is fantastic
Speaker 1: And I can't wait to talk a little ball with you.
Speaker 1: And you know, Bob, with you being the radio voice
Speaker 1: of the New York Jets, I have the feeling that
Speaker 1: you're feeling pretty good about what you saw come off
Speaker 1: the board. And and Greg, you know we're gonna I
Speaker 1: know we're gonna talk quarterbacks, which you know, you know
Speaker 1: all the players, but you are a true quarterback guru.
Speaker 1: And everyone in our league I know checks to see
Speaker 1: what you say about quarterbacks because it checks out really
Speaker 1: really well. And last but not least, mock drafts we
Speaker 1: all know are made to be put out there for
Speaker 1: us to be mocked. Once we put them out there,
Speaker 1: you go. Is there is there any chance guys you'll
Speaker 1: allow me to take all three of mine and use
Speaker 1: them in combination so I look better when it's all
Speaker 1: said and done, because at different ones I got different guys.
Speaker 1: Like I put Tyler Linderball to Baltimore at fourteen with
Speaker 1: my second mock draft, but didn't do it with my
Speaker 1: final bock draft. You see where I'm going. So can
Speaker 1: I get credit for one or get picking at twenty
Speaker 1: to Pittsburgh on my first one but not my last?
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, it doesn't count that way. But I
Speaker 1: don't think this. This should be like the S A T.
Speaker 1: You get to like superscore. So yeah, you went, you
Speaker 1: might have maybe you had three eleven hundreds in the
Speaker 1: end of you so tremendous work. Um, you know what.
Speaker 1: I will selfishly get to the Jets at some point.
Speaker 1: But you I think Charles touched on the headline, and
Speaker 1: Greg I know, has opinions on this as well. The
Speaker 1: quarterbacks were fascinating the fact that quarterback Kenny Pikett went
Speaker 1: in the first round probably where most talent evaluators thought
Speaker 1: he may go the most NFL ready polished product in
Speaker 1: college football this year. But no one reached, No one
Speaker 1: made a big, huge, aggressive trade up, no one panicked
Speaker 1: and thought one of these guys might go late first
Speaker 1: round and we better go up and get him. How
Speaker 1: surprised were you that in many moth traps you had
Speaker 1: Malik Willis projected as possibly the top ten pick. Maybe
Speaker 1: people would be, you know, just entranced by the ceiling,
Speaker 1: and yet he and Matt Corral and Desmond Ritterer and
Speaker 1: Sam Howe, all of these guys that I think we
Speaker 1: all think of NFL potential all dropped later to the
Speaker 1: third round, and I mean maybe in the end where
Speaker 1: they should have gone. What do you think, Well, I
Speaker 1: think that that's kind of I think, Bobby, you laid
Speaker 1: it out perfectly. And I can't wait for Greg to
Speaker 1: chime in on this because I said before, we all
Speaker 1: check and see what Craig says about quarterbacks. And that's
Speaker 1: that's not because we're on this show. That's just reality.
Speaker 1: Like when you asked around the league and you check
Speaker 1: with people, a lot of people will say, well, what
Speaker 1: did Greg think his quarterbacks? And it's a legit legit item.
Speaker 1: I think that the league evaluations for once, instead of
Speaker 1: the game of liars poker that we're all used to
Speaker 1: for the last month leading up to the draft, where
Speaker 1: everyone gives you disinformation, I think the league told us
Speaker 1: the truth this time and actually stuck to it. And
Speaker 1: I think that you nailed at Bob. There wasn't a panic.
Speaker 1: I looked into the camera on day two of the draft.
Speaker 1: I looked directly into the camera. I spoke to the people. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think I said at night one that someone's gonna
Speaker 1: take a quarterback and then the others are going to
Speaker 1: dive in. I was wrong, but I was wrong, which
Speaker 1: fit the evaluations because before this whole thing started. And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let Greg get in here, because because because
Speaker 1: he should, I said before the draft, and I stuck
Speaker 1: to it the entire time. There was a single quarterback
Speaker 1: in this draft that I had rated as highly as
Speaker 1: the fifth quarterback last year, and frankly the sixth quarterback,
Speaker 1: which was Davis Mills of Stanford who went to the
Speaker 1: Houston Texas. That Davis Mills had played a full year
Speaker 1: for David Shaw Stanford this year have a sneaking suspension,
Speaker 1: we would have been ranking him the number one quarterback
Speaker 1: coming out this year, so that's where my evaluations were.
Speaker 1: But as always, that doesn't mean there aren't any stars
Speaker 1: in this that remains to be seen. This is all
Speaker 1: about evaluation, Greg, How did you say it? You know,
Speaker 1: I was as you were just talking, and I thought
Speaker 1: about this over the weekend as well, but it even
Speaker 1: hit me just more Charles as you were speaking. I
Speaker 1: wonder we become so ingrained in thinking that everybody sees
Speaker 1: the quarterback position now as a secondary action improvisational position.
Speaker 1: And it's easy to say that because we do see guys,
Speaker 1: whether it's a Mahomes, whether it's a Josh Allen, do
Speaker 1: those kinds of things at are really high level. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if somewhere along the line, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if this is true or not, As I said,
Speaker 1: I it's just reacting to what you said. It's somewhere
Speaker 1: along the line. Team said, you know what, that's all great,
Speaker 1: but we as coaches work sixteen hours a day, we
Speaker 1: have a whole off season. We put in our system
Speaker 1: we wanted to be executed, and if you executed properly
Speaker 1: within the structure, there's a much higher percentage chance that
Speaker 1: our offense will run efficiently, snap after snap after snap,
Speaker 1: not waiting for a potentially secondary action, improvisational play which
Speaker 1: has somewhat of a random feel to it. And I'm
Speaker 1: just wondering, if you know, even with someone like Malik
Speaker 1: Willis and I know you watched his tape, I personally
Speaker 1: did not think his tape this year was that strong overall.
Speaker 1: Now can he make plays, of course, but Charles, you
Speaker 1: and I both know coaches and practice don't roll the
Speaker 1: ball out and say, you know, our plan today is
Speaker 1: to just go make some plays. And I just wonder
Speaker 1: somewhere along the line, teams thought, you know what, these
Speaker 1: guys have some issues playing consistently within structure, doing the
Speaker 1: things that are required at the NFL level, snap after snap.
Speaker 1: They're pretty significant works in progress in that area. So
Speaker 1: instead of just taking a guy because he can make
Speaker 1: a few plays, Hey, Sam Howell made a lot of plays,
Speaker 1: and I personally think Sam Howell has a chance, But
Speaker 1: you know what, he wasn't that consistent from the pocket.
Speaker 1: He would tell you that I spoke to him at
Speaker 1: the combine. He said to me, I didn't have a
Speaker 1: very good year. Those are his words. So I think
Speaker 1: that teams. Who knows. I'm trying to give maybe a
Speaker 1: little more of a three thousand foot view of how
Speaker 1: teams might have thought, because Malik Willis would have been
Speaker 1: seen I think by a lot of people as, oh,
Speaker 1: you gotta go get him because he can make plays,
Speaker 1: but obviously teams didn't go get him. I love that.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love that. I'm glad you brought that into
Speaker 1: play because there's a quarterback and retired and unretired, that
Speaker 1: makes the plays from the pocket, and he has all
Speaker 1: rings and he's the best quarterback we've ever seen, and
Speaker 1: that that, of course is Tom Brady. Russell. Wilson gets
Speaker 1: mis evaluated in my mind, and was misevaluated coming out
Speaker 1: of college by the vast majority of us because the
Speaker 1: athleticism was predominant. But I thought that one year at
Speaker 1: Wisconsin was huge for him and the biggest place he made.
Speaker 1: And go back to his Seattle time. He made pocket
Speaker 1: throws when he came out of college, and everybody remember
Speaker 1: fourth and twenty six and the Big Ten championship game.
Speaker 1: That wasn't a broken play, it was a pocket throw
Speaker 1: and he makes it and end up going on and
Speaker 1: win it. So those types of quarterbacks hit. I thought
Speaker 1: that Carson Strong from Nevada, who didn't get drafted, might
Speaker 1: have tested that theory Greg, except his knees, and I
Speaker 1: think his health were so bad that people passed on him,
Speaker 1: and that's why he's gonna end up being a free
Speaker 1: agent and last, but not least, one of the all
Speaker 1: time great quarterbacks. Aaron Rodgers, you have to help me
Speaker 1: with this one. I think that his career revibes, for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, actually continue to ascend or reascended,
Speaker 1: whatever word you want to use. When he got out
Speaker 1: of that stage near the end of the Mike McCarthy time,
Speaker 1: in my mind of every snap he started to create
Speaker 1: instead of snap rhythm, look for your guy, throw the football.
Speaker 1: I think he's back to doing that, and then the
Speaker 1: legs are an accessory, not primary. And that's what I
Speaker 1: thought for about a two or three years per stage.
Speaker 1: As soon as he got in the snap, he was
Speaker 1: off and going and going to create right away. Now
Speaker 1: he's back in rhythm, and boy, that's the Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: we all knew. Maybe I'll wrong, but that's what I said,
Speaker 1: and you're so right, because the last two years he's
Speaker 1: done that and he's played at an exceedingly high level.
Speaker 1: And I think what people are starting to understand is,
Speaker 1: you know, sure, we see Mahomes do his thing, Josh
Speaker 1: do his thing in Buffalo, but at some point in
Speaker 1: this league, you need to drop back passing game. And
Speaker 1: if you don't have that, you're going to stop in
Speaker 1: your quest to get to the big game. You know.
Speaker 1: I think there are teams that are very good examples
Speaker 1: of that when I say they don't have one. Obviously, Charles,
Speaker 1: it's in their playbook, we know that, but but they
Speaker 1: just don't execute it at the level that's necessary to
Speaker 1: really advance and become a great team. And I think
Speaker 1: we're seeing that, Hey, you know what, maybe that's something
Speaker 1: that should be higher on the list as opposed to
Speaker 1: lower on the list. Yeah, the second reaction stuff, Bob.
Speaker 1: The second reaction stuff, in my mind is that that's
Speaker 1: an accessory. That's what you sprinkle in. If the second
Speaker 1: reaction is what you're doing right off the top, well,
Speaker 1: we're back, We're we're having the turkey ball out back.
Speaker 1: Now we're we're playing that, We're coming in and having
Speaker 1: the pumpkin pie, and and and that just doesn't work
Speaker 1: quite the same way as we go along doing it.
Speaker 1: And I think teams are starting to evaluate that a
Speaker 1: little bit more. And yes, we remember, just as Greg
Speaker 1: put out there, what Mahomes does, what Josh does, all that,
Speaker 1: but the biggest plays they make are from the pocket.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna just stop up right here with this
Speaker 1: last observation, and it's one I'm gonna continue to jump
Speaker 1: up and down the table on quarterback. Pro days have
Speaker 1: turned into horse contests at cential? How many players can
Speaker 1: I show? How many times can I show you an
Speaker 1: off schedule, off platform throw that you all go, wow,
Speaker 1: how great was that? How About you hit your back
Speaker 1: foot and either the ball comes out of your hand
Speaker 1: or your back foot and hitch it to time up
Speaker 1: the route and then throw the football and make that
Speaker 1: throw time and time and time again. Drew Lock had
Speaker 1: a fantastic Pro Day with the off platform throws. We
Speaker 1: haven't seen him consistently make the throw on three and
Speaker 1: five step drops he's supposed to make to make him
Speaker 1: a starting quarterback in the NFL. I think I think
Speaker 1: all the Pro days have got to stop doing that. Hey,
Speaker 1: you want to give me one of those? Cool? But
Speaker 1: we're getting a whole series to show you off platform.
Speaker 1: All right, that's fine, but the biggest thing is am
Speaker 1: I consistently making the throw on three, five step and
Speaker 1: seventh step dropped up supposed to make? Yeah, when Zach
Speaker 1: Wilson had his pro day, uh, you know, obviously as
Speaker 1: a Jets guy, it went viral when he had like
Speaker 1: that office back foot flicked the side on fifty yard
Speaker 1: down the middle and and Jet fans saw that like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, look what this guy can do. Well,
Speaker 1: you don't want him doing that, Like like if he's
Speaker 1: if he's doing that a lot, it means whatever play
Speaker 1: that you drew up, it didn't work, and now he
Speaker 1: has to correctly get an offensive coordinator. I think, show
Speaker 1: me what you look like when the play that I
Speaker 1: put on the whiteboard comes together the way it's supposed to,
Speaker 1: and then you can execute that, And to me, that's
Speaker 1: more valuable. I agree, and Greg and I've talked about this, Charles.
Speaker 1: I want to get your reaction as well before we
Speaker 1: wrap up this segment and maybe get to some teams
Speaker 1: and some other positions. But even if the quarterbacks an
Speaker 1: anomaly this year dropped, this draft still shows it's still
Speaker 1: all about the quarterback, right like, look what teams did.
Speaker 1: Look at the trades teams made for big wide receivers.
Speaker 1: Look at the top twelve guys that came off the board.
Speaker 1: To start, you need to get to Jordan Davis before
Speaker 1: that was the first player in this draft that you
Speaker 1: can make an argument place a position that isn't about
Speaker 1: the quarterback. Everybody else it was the guy who's gonna
Speaker 1: catch the ball from the quarterback, or the guy that's
Speaker 1: gonna cover the guy that you're gonna try to throw too,
Speaker 1: or the guy that's blocking for the quarterback, or right
Speaker 1: the top. It's all still about the quarterback, isn't it.
Speaker 1: At great point, it's how the quarterback plays and how
Speaker 1: you affect the quarterback. All three of us are old
Speaker 1: enough to know these coaches. We weren't around totally when
Speaker 1: they weren't walked the sidelines, but they're the legends. Bear
Speaker 1: Bryant and Bumm Phillips repopularized it. The game is still
Speaker 1: about protect ours rush. There's it still comes back to that.
Speaker 1: It hasn't changed protect your quarterback. That's what you're talking about, Bob.
Speaker 1: All those offensive tackles came off the board, rushed the quarterback.
Speaker 1: How about all the all the edge rushers that came
Speaker 1: off the border early. Exactly right about that. The game
Speaker 1: is still played there, So you're right, even if it
Speaker 1: wasn't quarterbacks, it was about making the quarterback either uncomfortable
Speaker 1: or are safe enough to throw it to those receivers
Speaker 1: that came off the board as well. I love that observation.
Speaker 1: That's Charles Davids, Sam Babo shoot, Hi, Gregg Cosell of
Speaker 1: course with me as well, and this is Tape Heeds
Speaker 1: Draft season. Will step aside for just a moment and
Speaker 1: come back and attack some of the teams, some of
Speaker 1: the other big position groups that were headline makers in
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft in just a moment, Baba shoot, Greg
Speaker 1: Cosell and Charles Davis kind enough to spend some time
Speaker 1: with us this week wrapping up our coverage of Tape
Speaker 1: Heeds Draft Season and the two NFL Draft and you know,
Speaker 1: Charles would spent pretty much the entire first segment talking
Speaker 1: not just about the quarterbacks, but philosophically how teams went
Speaker 1: after players that impact the quarterback. Let's get to some
Speaker 1: teams and you know you brought them up, so I
Speaker 1: will selfishly take the bait my Jets that seemed had
Speaker 1: a pretty good draft, right. Everybody seemed to collectively across
Speaker 1: the board think that they got a lot of boxes
Speaker 1: checked that they were able to get not only three
Speaker 1: first round picks, but three players in the first round,
Speaker 1: including Jermaine Johnson at twenty six that many people had
Speaker 1: prognosticated to be top ten guys. Um. And then they
Speaker 1: did get some other weapons that seemed to be their philosophy.
Speaker 1: Just keep getting weapons, um, you know, for for Zach
Speaker 1: Wilson or guys that can go cover together team's weapons.
Speaker 1: And now, of course with Sauce Gardner their first pick.
Speaker 1: So what was your overall take on their performance? I
Speaker 1: thought it was phenomenal And one of the points I
Speaker 1: tried to make on the on the broadcast, I'll know
Speaker 1: if it cut through didn't because let's face there's a
Speaker 1: lot of time plus ed mayor narrow, so you know
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on for our for our draft.
Speaker 1: The people people were hopping on the Jets bandwagon for
Speaker 1: the draft, and Joe Douglas and GM, I thought, look
Speaker 1: did we forget last year? He already showed you he
Speaker 1: knows how to manipulate a board. Remember last year when
Speaker 1: you do it, when the Jeff took Zack Wilson at two,
Speaker 1: he came back and executed a trade with Minnesota to
Speaker 1: get it to get Elijah Vera Tucker to guard tackle
Speaker 1: from USC at fourteen. You don't just take the quarterback
Speaker 1: and make sure and leave him naked and in his eyes. Hey,
Speaker 1: we had McKay Beckton from before. You're bringing Vera Tucker.
Speaker 1: You got a heck of a left side. And then
Speaker 1: you come back and get the runner of Michael Carter
Speaker 1: at four. You got Alijah More in the second round.
Speaker 1: I thought last year was a tremendous draft for the Jets.
Speaker 1: Now you come back this year and in the game
Speaker 1: of can you top yourself? I would say Joe Douglas
Speaker 1: did because not only was he waiting to come back
Speaker 1: in to get Jermaine Johnson as he kept dropping, he
Speaker 1: did how about it a second round what he did
Speaker 1: to make sure he got Breece Hall, because I mean
Speaker 1: that was a big deal. Breece Hall was I think
Speaker 1: the consensus top runner on the board. And now you're
Speaker 1: gonna pair Breeze Hall in the second round this year,
Speaker 1: Michael Carter in the fourth round last year, Zach Wilson
Speaker 1: has that you got Alijah More last year. You now
Speaker 1: you come back with uh with Garrett Wilson this year.
Speaker 1: You know, oh, by the way he signed the c
Speaker 1: j us Alma right, didn't signed Alert Conklin as well,
Speaker 1: and in in in free agency. And then you come
Speaker 1: making Jeremy Rucker from ohiose date he was a very
Speaker 1: underrated tight end and people go, well, you didn't catch
Speaker 1: a lot of balls, And I was like, well, then
Speaker 1: you don't watch ball because Ohio State was throwing too
Speaker 1: Chris Alave, Garrett Wilson, uh Smith and Jagba. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were playing the perimeter game. You're not throwing it
Speaker 1: to the tight end because those guys are creating big plays.
Speaker 1: Jeremy Rutgers a Long Island kid coming home. He's ecstatic
Speaker 1: and his past catching potential is more vast than what
Speaker 1: people know. I thought it was a masterful draft by
Speaker 1: Joe Douglas and Bob If I could just jump in,
Speaker 1: I I couldn't agree more. The Rutgert picked. To me,
Speaker 1: we all know about the first round picks and obviously
Speaker 1: Breeze Hall, but I watched a ton of Rutgers, I
Speaker 1: mean and Obviously he did not catch a lot of balls,
Speaker 1: but people might forget he was a big, big time
Speaker 1: recruit coming out of Long Island and he is a
Speaker 1: really talented guy. Obviously he blocked a lot at Ohio State,
Speaker 1: but when you really dig into his tape and see
Speaker 1: the routes that he ran and the athleticism that he
Speaker 1: brings to the table, he's a three level dimension as
Speaker 1: a tight end, and I think he's one of those
Speaker 1: guys along with a zoom And now now you have
Speaker 1: two tight ends, so the Jets are in a position
Speaker 1: that every offensive coach wants to be in. And keep
Speaker 1: in mind their offensive coordinator has that San Francisco background,
Speaker 1: so they can line up with two tight ends, they
Speaker 1: can line up with three wide I think this is
Speaker 1: a team now that presents a lot of options offensively,
Speaker 1: and it puts Zack Wilson ideally in a good position.
Speaker 1: I like hearing all that, Charles any other teams. We
Speaker 1: were actually touching on the Eagles, Greg and I work
Speaker 1: before we came on the fact that they made a
Speaker 1: big deal for a primetime wide receiver and a j
Speaker 1: Brown and then drafted to Georgia between the tackles front
Speaker 1: seven defensive players as part of their top three picks,
Speaker 1: you know, in Nakobe Dean and Jordan Davis. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that is a team that fascinated your or
Speaker 1: any others on your list. Well, let's stick with the
Speaker 1: Eagles since you brought him up, because yes, they did
Speaker 1: fascinate me. Howie Rosemand, the mojo was there, Okay, not
Speaker 1: that it has been. You know, I really feel like
Speaker 1: some of these gms and how he's kind of a
Speaker 1: lightning ride for people really zeroing in on what happened,
Speaker 1: what didn't happen to all this. I'll tell you this
Speaker 1: about Howie Roseman. What's he standing? Greg five, Diing five
Speaker 1: eight whatever? Right? But he but but Howie Rosemand play
Speaker 1: seven feet tall guys in every draft. Howie Roseman gets
Speaker 1: after it. Okay, he has he has the gumption of
Speaker 1: the cat burglar. Okay, he's a second story guy because
Speaker 1: he has conviction on people and he will go and
Speaker 1: do what he has to do to try and get them.
Speaker 1: Once he got Jordan Davis getting a j Brown in
Speaker 1: the trade, that means he had to work out the
Speaker 1: contract along the way because he didn't want to say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna trade for him and then have to work
Speaker 1: out the contract, which cost you even more money down
Speaker 1: the road if you hit it wrong. He worked out
Speaker 1: all the details and now he's got that tough guy.
Speaker 1: See I compare A. J. Brown in a way to
Speaker 1: Jarvis Landry because juice in your in your wide receiver room,
Speaker 1: A J. Brown is gonna be the same way. You
Speaker 1: got to play the game with some toughness as well.
Speaker 1: You can't just go run your route to do your stuff.
Speaker 1: You gotta do all the things, do the things possible
Speaker 1: to be a pro. A J. Brown is like that.
Speaker 1: He played through a lot of injuries last year and
Speaker 1: played really tough. He made missed some games, but when
Speaker 1: he was out there, he was and he played strong.
Speaker 1: So let's get back to the draft, getting Jordan Davis
Speaker 1: and then, as you pointed out, Bob the Kobe Dean,
Speaker 1: the linebacker who many had as their top linebacker on
Speaker 1: the board, they get him in the third round because
Speaker 1: of an injury. Concerned that can't that emerged at the
Speaker 1: combine where he had a peck injury and decided not
Speaker 1: to get surgery at the time. So people think he's
Speaker 1: gonna be behind in his rehab and will he be
Speaker 1: ready for the season. I'm willing to wait on Nakobe
Speaker 1: Dean because once he gets healthy, the way we're playing
Speaker 1: linebacker these days, they don't have to be huge. He's
Speaker 1: better than every linebacker they've got right now. So soon
Speaker 1: as he plugs into the lineup, they're often running. So
Speaker 1: to me, that was masterful to get him there. And
Speaker 1: last year, you remember, they drafted Landon Dickerson out of
Speaker 1: Florida's state in Alabama, right he played in two schools.
Speaker 1: We thought he was the heir apparent at center for
Speaker 1: Jason Kelsey, and he played guard last year. What this
Speaker 1: draft pick of Cam Jurgens from Nebraska told me is
Speaker 1: that the Eagles and Jeff Stoutland, they're offensive line coach,
Speaker 1: have evaluated Landon Dickerson, think that he's really good at guard.
Speaker 1: And now we've got our air apparent Camp Jurgens, a
Speaker 1: center Kelsey with another one year deal. Give Jurgens a
Speaker 1: chance to break in, You leave Dickerson and guard Jerkins
Speaker 1: takes over at center. I really like all the things
Speaker 1: they did, and I'm gonna leave it at this. Kyran
Speaker 1: john In the linebacker out of Kansas, they drafted an
Speaker 1: undersized pass rusher. They can use them as a DPR
Speaker 1: designated pass rusher until he gets really comfortable, gets a
Speaker 1: little weight under him. But boy, he plays with great
Speaker 1: leverage that we thought the Senior Bowl he may not
Speaker 1: look the part, but he was getting underneath these big
Speaker 1: blockers and finding ways passed them and pass rush drills.
Speaker 1: You know. You know what I'm curious about with Nakobe Dean.
Speaker 1: The tape is very good. You know, you have to
Speaker 1: like the player. There's nothing not to like based on tape.
Speaker 1: I'd be curious if some teams thought because he's really
Speaker 1: close to the bottom end of the spectrum in terms
Speaker 1: of height for teams that look at that. And you know, Charles,
Speaker 1: there are teams that do that. They have standards and
Speaker 1: they have parameters for every position. We know that. But
Speaker 1: the thing that stood out to me because Kirby Smart
Speaker 1: is one of the few coaches in college football where
Speaker 1: when you watch their defense you see true NFL pressure concepts,
Speaker 1: and na Kobe Dean was an outstanding blitzer. And I'm
Speaker 1: curious if John and Gannon, the d C for the
Speaker 1: the Eagles, who last year I don't think could really
Speaker 1: do a lot of the things he wanted to do
Speaker 1: simply because he didn't have the personnel. I'm wondering if
Speaker 1: they see Dean in that role as he matures and
Speaker 1: develops and gets coached, because he was a really, really
Speaker 1: good blitzer. He's very good playing forward. I like that,
Speaker 1: and and the good thing he had. And but I
Speaker 1: think what some people might have been concerned with Greg
Speaker 1: is what he had in front of him. You guys
Speaker 1: watched I mean, Bob, you do college football every week?
Speaker 1: How many times have you gotten that shot on TV
Speaker 1: that you you were not even talking about, but you
Speaker 1: notice it. Greg sees it in the same way where
Speaker 1: that shot is from behind the offensive huddle and the
Speaker 1: defensive line has broken the huddle and they're waiting for
Speaker 1: you and you look up. How many times have we
Speaker 1: seen that with Georgia this year because it became a
Speaker 1: favorite shot because you look up in that imposing defensive
Speaker 1: line is standing their hands on hips. That defensive line
Speaker 1: allowed him to do so many things with Nakobe Dean,
Speaker 1: with Channing Tenda, with Quay Walker that because of the
Speaker 1: size with Nakobe Dean, I think people were wondering was
Speaker 1: he protected so well? Kenny hand fight through things if
Speaker 1: I can't protect him as well, that caused him concern
Speaker 1: as well going forward. But I think Greg is spot
Speaker 1: on the Kobe Dean's just such a great player. I
Speaker 1: comped him to Jonathan Vilma because he plays the game
Speaker 1: with his brain as well. This is gonna be a
Speaker 1: guy that that you don't have any worries about running
Speaker 1: your defense through. And as soon as he gets healthy,
Speaker 1: I love that pick. And to get him in the third,
Speaker 1: to me, that's like an extra first round pick. Bob. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: Jonathan Vilma, I was had a hard time interviewing him
Speaker 1: because it kind of felt stupid while I was talking
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, well I have that when I have that, Bob,
Speaker 1: when I have conversations with him, I'm like, Jonathan, can
Speaker 1: you can you translate what you just said to me? Hey? Um,
Speaker 1: we're always looking for diamonds in the rough. You did
Speaker 1: mock draft, so obviously you were someone that was looking
Speaker 1: I mean literally all the way through this draft. So
Speaker 1: in this trap, will you know? And I think sometimes
Speaker 1: with the fans and media, we've spent so much time
Speaker 1: talking about the first round, yeah, that we almost feel
Speaker 1: like the draft is over on Thursday night. We're really
Speaker 1: the guts of your team are put together in rounds
Speaker 1: two through seven. Yeah, so who were which teams do
Speaker 1: you think maybe did the best work based on your
Speaker 1: you know, player evaluations, where there were some guys in
Speaker 1: the second, third, and fourth round you were like, oh,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, now they got a guy that I
Speaker 1: just think it's a difference maker. Can I take Houston
Speaker 1: as a whole? Sure? Sure, Let's face it, it's really easy.
Speaker 1: It's been really easy to dump on Houston over the
Speaker 1: last few years, hadn't it. I mean it's been real easy,
Speaker 1: Like that's not even been sport for us. Okay, they've
Speaker 1: looked like a total disarray. They look like, you know,
Speaker 1: are they even trying out there with that roster? What's
Speaker 1: going on? You know? You know, you you hire, you
Speaker 1: hire a coach last year, and and and and uh
Speaker 1: David McCulley, and then you you fired him in one
Speaker 1: year and he's worked his butt off and those guys
Speaker 1: play hard for him. So what exactly were you doing
Speaker 1: at that place? You know, they have the Deshaun Watson
Speaker 1: circus going on. I gotta tell you something, whatever was
Speaker 1: said before Nick Cassario, in my mind, in this draft,
Speaker 1: they went at it with conviction. I used that word
Speaker 1: a lot. They decided to Derek Stingley, who I think
Speaker 1: was the most talented corner in this draft. But I
Speaker 1: understood why people out of my Gardener ahead of him,
Speaker 1: because Gardener had been more consistent the last two seasons.
Speaker 1: But Stingley at the top of his game, no question,
Speaker 1: my my best corner in this draft. And when he
Speaker 1: came back healthy for his Pro Day, and if you
Speaker 1: put the time in and I assumed Houston did, to
Speaker 1: be convinced that this guy's ready to elevate again. That's
Speaker 1: why he went at three instead of a mod Gardener.
Speaker 1: Then you come back and you get Kenyan Green at thirteen,
Speaker 1: which I was joking with someone the Kenyan Green was
Speaker 1: probably at the bowling alley or somewhere else because he
Speaker 1: didn't expect to hear his name at thirteen. He didn't
Speaker 1: think he even starting to hear name until the mid
Speaker 1: twenties and then beyond. But at thirteen he provides I
Speaker 1: think the most physical offensive guard in this draft. So
Speaker 1: now you provided a second starter right away. Then you
Speaker 1: go to Jaln Petrie. My favorite safety in the draft.
Speaker 1: My favorite player was Kyle Hamilton and Notre Dame. So
Speaker 1: I'm not changing that, but people have heard me throughout
Speaker 1: this process. I've had a major man crush on Jaln
Speaker 1: Petrie because instincts are huge in the secondary and Tyrone
Speaker 1: Matthews the patron saying of instincts, we know that, But
Speaker 1: since then I've said, Elijah Molden from who went to
Speaker 1: the Titans last year, reminded me Antoine Winfield when he
Speaker 1: came out of Minnesota before he went to the Bucks.
Speaker 1: Reminded me Jalen Petrie is this year's example to me
Speaker 1: of that guy. Now you talking about those guys, Bob
Speaker 1: who we got in the third, fourth, fifth, how about
Speaker 1: getting Christian Harrison, linebacker from Alabama. And the third Damian
Speaker 1: Pierce are running back from Florida who is a thumper
Speaker 1: yet catches the ball well out of the backfield. The
Speaker 1: oddity he's going to be that his first one yard
Speaker 1: rushing game will happen in the NFL. He never had
Speaker 1: it in college because they've moved the ball around so
Speaker 1: much and they didn't stick with the run as much
Speaker 1: of Florida. And then Thomas Booker, the de tackle from Stanford.
Speaker 1: It can be a great zero technique and run stopper,
Speaker 1: tea Qua Torriano the tight end from Morgan State, more
Speaker 1: blocker than catcher, Austin Deculus for tackle from Louisiana State.
Speaker 1: I think great value through there because they will compete.
Speaker 1: But Derek Stingley one, Kenyan Green one, Jalen Petrie to
Speaker 1: John Netchi the receiver from Alabama too when he gets healthy,
Speaker 1: Christian Harris free from Alabama. All of them will start
Speaker 1: as soon as they are ready to go meeting health wise,
Speaker 1: They're immediate starters. And I think Damian Pierce, he immediately
Speaker 1: takes some carries from Rex burke Head. I thought it
Speaker 1: was about his professional a draft as Houston has had
Speaker 1: in a while. Now, you know, just a real quick point,
Speaker 1: and I love your thought, and it's probably a longer conversation.
Speaker 1: But Jalen Petrie is fascinating to me because he obviously
Speaker 1: is you know, Charles, he played what they call the
Speaker 1: start position, so he played slot corner, box safety and
Speaker 1: outside linebacker. Okay, and obviously when you watch his tape
Speaker 1: in college, he was all over the place. He made
Speaker 1: a lot of plays. But I kept trying to think,
Speaker 1: what is he going to be in the NFL because
Speaker 1: and I'm just being honest, and again, this is what
Speaker 1: I try to do. I think about projection and transition
Speaker 1: because they played a ton of zone at UH in college. Now,
Speaker 1: of course Lovely Smith does too, and I know a
Speaker 1: lot of people said he's a slot corner, but he
Speaker 1: didn't really play much man coverage, So to me, that
Speaker 1: would have been a projection if you see him as
Speaker 1: a slot corner and then there's a true safety. I
Speaker 1: was thinking to myself, is he really truly athletic enough
Speaker 1: to be that guy in a love E. Smith system?
Speaker 1: He could be. I'm not sure. And then I can
Speaker 1: keep coming back to the argument that, well, the guy's
Speaker 1: made plays in college, He's just gonna keep making plays.
Speaker 1: And I would just love quick thought from you, because
Speaker 1: I I think he's a really good player on tape.
Speaker 1: I just was uncertain in my mind as to what
Speaker 1: his projection would be in the NFL. Yeah, I think you're.
Speaker 1: I think you're. It's a great question, Greg, because I
Speaker 1: think you have to convince yourself of different things when
Speaker 1: you when you go back and look at his measurables
Speaker 1: and then go back and watch him run move all
Speaker 1: those things. Because he started there as a pure outside linebacker.
Speaker 1: So that's this kind of a move was almost like
Speaker 1: uh Carnel Lake coming out of U. C l A. Remember,
Speaker 1: he was like a pure outside back through c l A.
Speaker 1: He was under size, but because he was so athletic,
Speaker 1: the Steelers made him a safety, and boy did they
Speaker 1: hit on that one. Petrie started as an outside back
Speaker 1: or Baylor, but as you pointed out, played that star position,
Speaker 1: so he had to have the traits of everything. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like an astrology. If you're born within three
Speaker 1: days of either side of the dates on your thing,
Speaker 1: you get the characteristics of both signs. Well, that's kind
Speaker 1: of what Petrie was. He was in the cuff outside
Speaker 1: linebacker here, safety here, linebacker, you know, and that dime
Speaker 1: linebacker here. What I think he is is where the
Speaker 1: game has moved to as well, that Buffalo safety deal, Greg,
Speaker 1: where you have three Yeah, you mean the nickel right.
Speaker 1: He's more the big nickel guy as opposed to the
Speaker 1: nickel corner, as you pointed out, because the nickel corner
Speaker 1: wasn't much of what he was really locked in doing. No,
Speaker 1: he didn't play a lot of man, didn't play a
Speaker 1: lot of man, But I will say this. He moves
Speaker 1: and he's fluid, and he ran way better than what
Speaker 1: people thought. I think he can do all the characteristics
Speaker 1: of everything else. I'm betting on his instincts about the
Speaker 1: football to be that type of a player, and I think,
Speaker 1: to love you to find find plenty of ways to
Speaker 1: do that. That's what I'm counting on. So I think
Speaker 1: it's a great question, and it is a little bit
Speaker 1: of a projection. And Bob, I think that takes me
Speaker 1: to why Trent Baky went number one with Trayvon Walker,
Speaker 1: because there is a bit of a project ship. There
Speaker 1: is a thing that Treyvon Walker is going to be
Speaker 1: a great pass rusher because you don't go draft a
Speaker 1: guy at one for six sacks a year. You draft
Speaker 1: a guy at one for double digit sacks a year.
Speaker 1: And Trayvon Walker never did that at Georgia. Adan Hutchinson
Speaker 1: did that in Michigan. That's why people are like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: what's going on here? The projection for them is the athleticism,
Speaker 1: the scheme he played at Georgia where he took up
Speaker 1: double teams where they didn't put him out there is
Speaker 1: a wide nine. All those things. They think that all
Speaker 1: that can emerge and they see that upside as being
Speaker 1: big and that's what Trent Baky put his name on
Speaker 1: the line for. Well, Charles, I can't tell you how
Speaker 1: much we appreciate the time you've given us all this information.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could go team by teams for this
Speaker 1: entire drafted you with. The problem is, by the time
Speaker 1: we got done with all the information you and Greg have,
Speaker 1: you'd be in the booth calling your first team of
Speaker 1: the season. Hey hey, we don't, we don't. We'd all
Speaker 1: be right there at kickoff, wouldn't we. But hopefully we
Speaker 1: can do this again with you at some point down
Speaker 1: the road. We love talking ball with you. Thanks a million,
Speaker 1: Thanks a million, thanks for having time to give me
Speaker 1: this time with you guys. It is flat out terrific
Speaker 1: and you know I love picking your brains as well.
Speaker 1: Look forward to seeing you again soon. Bob's same with you, Greg. Thanks, Charles,
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Thanks a lot of guys, You're the best.
Speaker 1: Thanks Charles. That is Charles Davis, so much information. And
Speaker 1: we're back tomorrow with another and I guess our final
Speaker 1: episode of Tape Heads Draft season to wrap up our
Speaker 1: coverage and our look back at the two NFL trapt
Speaker 1: Boble Shoosing a great post, Cell, Thanks for being a
Speaker 1: tape pend