Speaker 1: The majors pulsate with that tension. As you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: they become more major, like they have more meaning and
Speaker 1: so let's see it like these next three months are
Speaker 1: gonna tell us a lot.
Speaker 2: But it's also a throws.
Speaker 1: Into sharp relief that the events that matter are not
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour or on livcol there are these
Speaker 1: other things, and that's another structural problem for the game.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's thank god the Masters this year,
Speaker 1: all these background issues will subside for at least four
Speaker 1: days and we can just enjoy the competition.
Speaker 2: But then as soon as.
Speaker 1: It's over, who wins and who loses takes on different
Speaker 1: shades of meaning. So uh, it's it's a fascinating moment.
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's not.
Speaker 2: It's just it's not done that got daunts.
Speaker 3: Can't get them and not the thing what I'm thinking about,
Speaker 3: can't get them out the thing well I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: All right, Hello and welcome back to another fire drill.
Speaker 1: It's been a little it's been a minute here with
Speaker 1: the Matt Janella. We are excited to kick off Masters week.
Speaker 1: Talk about a whole bunch of things.
Speaker 4: Hi, Matt Alan, great to be with you. As always
Speaker 4: and excited to hear about what you know. I think
Speaker 4: a lot of people have been asking you us and
Speaker 4: it's time.
Speaker 1: Indeed, Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna focus on what's happening
Speaker 1: to professional golf and what's happening with the company. But
Speaker 1: let's just real quick redirect folks if you haven't had
Speaker 1: a chance to listen to Matt's episodic podcast about lab Hutters,
Speaker 1: which is it's more than a golf story. It's really
Speaker 1: a cool business story. It's about entrepreneurship, it's about dream
Speaker 1: and there's all these colorful characters who come in and
Speaker 1: out of the tale. Why did you want to tell
Speaker 1: this story?
Speaker 2: Matt? Just give a little tease.
Speaker 4: I said it in part one. I had no intent
Speaker 4: of actually an eight part. Now it's actually a nine
Speaker 4: part of dropping a bonus today as we're recording this
Speaker 4: in which you get, you know, a little more reflections
Speaker 4: and anecdotes from people like Kelly Slater on Surfing Ireland.
Speaker 4: But I you know, as I said in part one,
Speaker 4: I was introduced to this concept of lab putter in
Speaker 4: the January twenty nineteen PGA Merchandise show, in which an
Speaker 4: old college friend told me to meet this guy, Sam
Speaker 4: Hahn and see this revolutionary product that he was selling.
Speaker 4: I'm not, as you know, I'm not an equipment geek.
Speaker 4: I've had the same putter for like fourteen years. I
Speaker 4: saw what was presented to me as the revealer, which
Speaker 4: I've learned a lot about since, and I just I
Speaker 4: didn't I really kind of didn't comprehend what I was seeing.
Speaker 4: Cut two years later and knowing what we know about
Speaker 4: Lucas Glover, having seen what we've seen from Lucas Glover
Speaker 4: with a horrific case of the yips playing out you
Speaker 4: know on TV with tight you know, zoomed in cameras
Speaker 4: that culminated with push putting, to have him go from
Speaker 4: that at the beginning of twenty twenty three to eventually
Speaker 4: winning back to back PGA Tour events, the Windom And
Speaker 4: and the FedEx the start of the playoffs, and I
Speaker 4: was like, wait, is this the putter that I saw
Speaker 4: back in twenty and led to a phone call to
Speaker 4: Sam Han, the CEO and co owner, which led to
Speaker 4: Bill Pressey, which led to Von Taylor and Jeff Sloman
Speaker 4: and Tim Wilkinson and Brett Rumford and Kelly Slater and
Speaker 4: Adam Scott, and you know people like Jason who's now
Speaker 4: you know, this kind of mental coach, and Mac Barnhart,
Speaker 4: Michael Simps, I mean, eighteen interviews later, and to your point,
Speaker 4: it is so much more than just a story about
Speaker 4: a putter. It's it's all those things that you mentioned,
Speaker 4: and it also kind of I just think it gives
Speaker 4: people hope who have struggled on putting surfaces in life
Speaker 4: in general. I mean, it just it's you know, at
Speaker 4: the core of it, it's it, you know. In One
Speaker 4: of the sweet things is that Lucas Glover kind of
Speaker 4: shows his kids that what he preaches to them and
Speaker 4: what we all preach to our kids is don't give up,
Speaker 4: grind it out. You know, hard work eventually pays off.
Speaker 4: And he did that and showed them and and that
Speaker 4: story is just one of many stories that's told in
Speaker 4: this series.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it it was really really well and I
Speaker 1: would anyone who's listened to this, I would encourage you
Speaker 1: to go back and check that out. Another thing that
Speaker 1: you might look at that will accentuate your enjoyment of
Speaker 1: this particular podcast is Bloomberg Business Week rang me up
Speaker 1: and asked if I would write a story about the
Speaker 1: chaotic state of professional golf and really get granular on
Speaker 1: the money, the finances, the details.
Speaker 2: And it was a fun challenge. Of course, I said, Yes.
Speaker 1: The editor is a good friend of my book editor,
Speaker 1: and he's a golfer. The deadline of the piece was
Speaker 1: built around his trip to Pinehurst, you know he was
Speaker 1: He said, I never get to get golf stories in
Speaker 1: the magazine.
Speaker 2: I'd love for you to do this one. And so
Speaker 2: it was a fun challenge.
Speaker 1: I'm it's linked on my Twitter and of course you
Speaker 1: can find it through any of the Bloomberg business Week
Speaker 1: channels as well.
Speaker 2: And so I sent it to Matt.
Speaker 1: He's got a sneak preview of it, and one of it
Speaker 1: seems like a good jumping off point to talk about
Speaker 1: where we are. You know, the Masters is kind of
Speaker 1: this inflection point where we're getting all the players together
Speaker 1: for the first time since last July.
Speaker 2: You have all the best players in the same place.
Speaker 2: Although shout out Taylor Gooch, he's getting left behind.
Speaker 1: And all the all the power brokers, all the ballers,
Speaker 1: shot callers are hanging out under the tree like there's
Speaker 1: never going to be any movement on the So called
Speaker 1: framework agreement. You would think that Masters we could could
Speaker 1: push it along. And so Matt, you read the story
Speaker 1: kind of what's on your mind and what do you
Speaker 1: want to know more about?
Speaker 4: I want to know more about all of it. And
Speaker 4: the April Fools jokes about Taylor Gooch getting a last
Speaker 4: minute invitation to the Masters were I mean, cruel and
Speaker 4: unusual but delicious but also you know, slightly funny. And
Speaker 4: before we get to that, I just want to also
Speaker 4: just pay a few bills here and just thank Dormy Workshop,
Speaker 4: the quality leather goods company, Canadian Base, the Bishop Brothers
Speaker 4: who have become good friends of ours, big supporters of
Speaker 4: what we do and how we do it. We can't
Speaker 4: thank them enough for their partnership. And we'll get to
Speaker 4: more of how we're going to evolve that partnership later
Speaker 4: on in this podcast. But shout out to Dormy Workshop
Speaker 4: and if you go to Dormy Workshop dot com and
Speaker 4: see all their quality leather goods, especially their headcovers, double bags,
Speaker 4: putter covers, of which some of is available at Firepitcollective
Speaker 4: dot com. If you go to Dormy Workshop dot com
Speaker 4: and use fire Pit fifteen, you get a fifteen percent
Speaker 4: discount off your next purchase.
Speaker 2: So just thank you for that. I'm always I'm always
Speaker 2: so hasty. Sorry, sorry, Dormy. I love you guys too.
Speaker 1: I didn't mean the gloss over that that's important.
Speaker 4: Now to the to the good stuff here as it
Speaker 4: relates to your story, your reporting. And again I say
Speaker 4: this all the time, I just don't know where we
Speaker 4: are in this world of golf without your your grit,
Speaker 4: your grind, your reporting, your spine through all of this,
Speaker 4: as you've taken shrapnel from from from it from so
Speaker 4: many different directions. It seems like you can't write something
Speaker 4: without equally pissing off both sides every time you hit send,
Speaker 4: which boggles my mind. It just means to me that
Speaker 4: people I think want the truth, but maybe they don't
Speaker 4: actually like reading it or seeing it or hearing it.
Speaker 4: And I just I just marvel at at at at
Speaker 4: your professionalism and your willingness to just do what you
Speaker 4: do and how you do it. So on that note,
Speaker 4: the state of men's professional golf specifically is as you know,
Speaker 4: as told by Alan Schipnutt.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's messier than it's ever been. I mean, no,
Speaker 1: you know, everyone wants a resolution, and there was this
Speaker 1: this fantasy floating around that they're gonna they're gonna have
Speaker 1: everything worked out by the masters. I mean, the end
Speaker 1: of twenty four might be ambitious. There's so many moving parts,
Speaker 1: and the SSG investment into PGA Tour enterprises has just
Speaker 1: muddied the waters because you know, which.
Speaker 4: Is just to explain that for a second, SSG investment
Speaker 4: really quick for people who don't yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you haven't been following this on a granular level,
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour and Live Golf had got into this
Speaker 1: this death spiral of you know, mutually assured destruction. Neither
Speaker 1: business was going to work. Live is hemorrhaging money. The
Speaker 1: tour product has been badly devalued, the sponsors were fleeing,
Speaker 1: so they kind of recognize that. And that was what
Speaker 1: the framework agreement came out, you know now nine months ago,
Speaker 1: saying all right, we'll drop the lawsuits and we're going
Speaker 1: to find a way to work together. But that was
Speaker 1: that was It was not a legal document. It was
Speaker 1: basically like a handshake saying, okay, we'll drop the lawsuits
Speaker 1: and we'll figure out it. Anything else, we'll figure that
Speaker 1: out later. And Of course, as it became more clear
Speaker 1: that it was just aspirational and there was there was
Speaker 1: no teeth, there was no penalty if either side walked away,
Speaker 1: then all the sharks started circling from Wall Street and
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and even Hollywood, and ultimately the tour had eleven,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty different parties signed NDAs. Eleven submitted bids
Speaker 1: to invest in this new PG Tour Enterprises, which kind
Speaker 1: of reshapes the old fashioned, outdated model of the tour
Speaker 1: where it was just a pass the organization that kind
Speaker 1: of collected money, gave it to the players into charity,
Speaker 1: but could never really invest in itself. I mean, the
Speaker 1: mandate of the tour has always been whatever you make,
Speaker 1: you have to give away either to the players or
Speaker 1: to charity. They couldn't they couldn't do any long term
Speaker 1: strategic investment to grow the business as a five oh
Speaker 1: one C six. So by becoming PG Tour Enterprises, a
Speaker 1: for profit company, now all the ideas they've had through
Speaker 1: the years, but they could act on. They finally have
Speaker 1: that ability. And so the partner they chose in this SSG,
Speaker 1: which is this consortium of team owners like John Henry,
Speaker 1: the Red Sox and Arthur Blank of the Falcons and
Speaker 1: these private equity superstars. These guys put in a billion
Speaker 1: and a half dollars right away, and that was for
Speaker 1: which is not public but they will find out, is
Speaker 1: for an eleven point five percent stake in the new company.
Speaker 1: The tour can access another one point five billion dollars
Speaker 1: by selling off more equity, and it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be all at once if they because basically this first
Speaker 1: billion and a half is just going to the players
Speaker 1: just as a reward for those who didn't leave and
Speaker 1: go to live. So they took this money. They had
Speaker 1: to make the players hole the guys who turned down
Speaker 1: live and stayed.
Speaker 2: But now if.
Speaker 1: They are going to actually grow their business, they're going
Speaker 1: to need more money. So they can sell off another
Speaker 1: or five percent and take another eight hundred million.
Speaker 2: And and so.
Speaker 1: The mandate of the story, because it was for you know,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, was to understand the business.
Speaker 2: And I learned a heck of a lot. And I
Speaker 2: talked to top.
Speaker 1: Executives on both tours Live and PGA Tour, talk to
Speaker 1: players on both sides of the Great Divide.
Speaker 2: I talked to some independent analysts and.
Speaker 4: Wait players still talk. I thought they've been told I
Speaker 4: have to talk to you. I can't believe you're actually
Speaker 4: still talking to players.
Speaker 1: I know that it's funny that there's that perception. I mean,
Speaker 1: both of the Phil Book and the Live, Live and
Speaker 1: Let Die actually increased my credibility with players. What i've
Speaker 1: what I've ad.
Speaker 4: Course, you're one of the few people who are actually
Speaker 4: fighting for something outside the top twenty players in the world. Like,
Speaker 4: who who is their voice if it's not you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I went to what it used to be the Honda
Speaker 1: Classic in Palm Beach Guards now it's the whatever Cognizant,
Speaker 1: whatever lame title has and I did so many interviews
Speaker 1: and it was actually funny.
Speaker 2: Here Dixon was in the vicinity where I was doing
Speaker 2: a lot of the interviews. He's like, wow, you talked
Speaker 2: to everybody.
Speaker 1: I said, well, that's my job, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: a member of the play of the board of directors
Speaker 1: gave me a hug at the end of our interview.
Speaker 2: He's like, he's like, thanks for treating us fairly. It
Speaker 2: was just funny.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, players still talk to me, thankfully it all.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's more fun when they don't because then it
Speaker 1: forces you to go other avenues. But yeah, I got
Speaker 1: a lot of voices in this piece, and.
Speaker 4: Some of them were actually on the record too, which.
Speaker 2: Is very Yeah, yeah, most And so.
Speaker 1: It is interesting, how is the tour going to make
Speaker 1: money so it can it can it can grow their
Speaker 1: business so all these private equity sharks can get their
Speaker 1: money back and actually make a profit.
Speaker 2: They don't have a great answer for that.
Speaker 1: I mean, the SSG has been very patient and they
Speaker 1: you know, the typical when private equity comes into a business,
Speaker 1: the first thing they do is fire everybody and cut
Speaker 1: costs and strip it down to its parts, and they
Speaker 1: try and sell pieces off. And that's kind of how
Speaker 1: they how they make their money. It's a ruthless game.
Speaker 1: They have assurances that you know, from everyone at SSG
Speaker 1: that they're in this for the long term. They're not
Speaker 1: in a rush. They're not going to be looking at
Speaker 1: quarterly reports for a while. And so, I mean one
Speaker 1: of the things that the tour wants to do is
Speaker 1: real estate, which is really interesting. You know that Rory
Speaker 1: mentioned this to me. Some of the tour guys mentioned
Speaker 1: it to me. They have this TPC network that they
Speaker 1: can really grow they can gobble up distress courses, they
Speaker 1: can rebrand it, they can sell housing like okay, that's
Speaker 1: an interesting business.
Speaker 4: They have.
Speaker 1: They've invested a lot in what they're calling PGA Tour Studios,
Speaker 1: which will come online the end of this year, and
Speaker 1: a state of the art facility which a tour has
Speaker 1: never had, where they can customize their feeds. Because the
Speaker 1: tour creates the feed that the networks us. To a
Speaker 1: large degree, it's been consolidated, but now they're going to
Speaker 1: be able to custom it. So they can have a
Speaker 1: special feed that goes to Korea that's in Korean with
Speaker 1: Korean announcers that heavily shows the Korean players, and of
Speaker 1: course they'll show the leaders as well. They can do
Speaker 1: that for Japan, they can do that for Australia. They
Speaker 1: have a plan to really make their product more appealing globally.
Speaker 1: Now it's not easily monetizable right now because they're locked
Speaker 1: into all these these rights deals they go through twenty thirty.
Speaker 1: But if they create this much better entertainment product, they
Speaker 1: will be able to cash in in you know, five
Speaker 1: to six years when they negotiate the new deal.
Speaker 2: And apparently ssg's.
Speaker 4: Willing to wait.
Speaker 1: I mean that may be the bonanza is thet the
Speaker 1: next media rights deal, So you know, I asked they
Speaker 1: really want to lean into gaming, and there's probably going
Speaker 1: to be a moment in time where the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: app you can place bets right on the site. They're
Speaker 1: trying to figure that out. It's complex because different states
Speaker 1: have different rules. And you know, if you're driving in
Speaker 1: Georgia and you cross over to the Florida across the
Speaker 1: invisible boundary into another state, you know, different states have
Speaker 1: different rules that pass to be able to just shut
Speaker 1: off in those scenarios. This is some complicated tech. But
Speaker 1: you know, the most of the most valuable proprietary data
Speaker 1: that the tour has shot link and there's some people
Speaker 1: who want to basically make that a subscription service for betters,
Speaker 1: and so all these degenerate betters who you know, golf
Speaker 1: is the ultimate sport for gambling, right, It's dawned to
Speaker 1: dusk four days a week, so.
Speaker 4: You know, you make I mean every ship, it's like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, and the data is so granular now and
Speaker 1: you can bet on everything, so you could charge five
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year one thousand dollars a year and
Speaker 1: a lot of people would subscribe to that. Now, talking
Speaker 1: to the tour guys, they're like, everything that we decide
Speaker 1: on going forward, it's a mix between how do we
Speaker 1: maximize revenue and how do we not piss off fans
Speaker 1: because people liked it just everyday fans like to look
Speaker 1: at shot linked data too, So these are the tough
Speaker 1: decisions they're going to have to make.
Speaker 2: But you know, I got.
Speaker 4: Something pissing off fans, That's that's at the core of
Speaker 4: all of this. But I know we can get more
Speaker 4: to that later, but go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know Rory mcelright, I got someone on one time
Speaker 1: with him, and you know, he said, we've got to
Speaker 1: make every tournament an event. Every tournament has to be
Speaker 1: like the Phoenix Open. We have to bring in non
Speaker 1: golf fans and we have to we have to grow
Speaker 1: our audience. We have to make it fun and make
Speaker 1: it a party and have music. And of course I
Speaker 1: mentioned this to Lee Westwood and the look on his
Speaker 1: face was just priceless, because of course that's what Liv's
Speaker 1: been trying to do all along. They've been criticized for it,
Speaker 1: but you know, the products are merging, right, Like the
Speaker 1: tour product is looking more and more like Live in
Speaker 1: that they're trying to get all the players together for
Speaker 1: these big money events with no cuts, small fields they're
Speaker 1: gonna try and leaning on the entertainment aspects.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Each each tour is kind of helping the other one evolve.
Speaker 1: And on the live side, you know, certainly they are
Speaker 1: their banking on selling their franchises, which there's many jokes
Speaker 1: about who's going to want to buy the four aces,
Speaker 1: but in their mind there is there is a market
Speaker 1: out there. And the the TGL, you know, the Tech
Speaker 1: Golf League that's obviously the air went out of that one,
Speaker 1: literally and figuratively they're going to launch it next year.
Speaker 2: But also even.
Speaker 1: What's what's happening in sports at large. I mean, you
Speaker 1: see the investment from private equity into every professional sport,
Speaker 1: and you know, Goldman, Sachs and these other big companies
Speaker 1: have now have dedicated sports divisions, and you look at
Speaker 1: what what teams are selling for across the board. They
Speaker 1: feel like Live, they are confident they're going to be
Speaker 1: able to find buyers and they feel like they I mean,
Speaker 1: the guys have told me and I leave them up
Speaker 1: to a point that there's been a big uptick in
Speaker 1: interest in the last six months because you know, eight
Speaker 1: of the events this year for Live are going to
Speaker 1: go international. They're going to go to Korea for the
Speaker 1: first time, They're going to Hong Kong. They're definitely gonna
Speaker 1: get a Japan tournament on the schedule for next year.
Speaker 1: And in those markets, there's a lot of there's a
Speaker 1: lot of wealthy people who are dying to get into
Speaker 1: professional sports and have a have a you know, a
Speaker 1: toe hold in American sports. But you can't buy the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys because that's that's eight billion dollars and you know,
Speaker 1: the owners unofficially only want to sell to other Americans, right,
Speaker 1: They're like, there's the collusion not to allow foreign buyers
Speaker 1: in it to some degree. But Live will happily sell
Speaker 1: you one of their teams for three or four or
Speaker 1: five hundred million dollars. And now you're part of this
Speaker 1: sports ecosystem. Now you have access to the public investment
Speaker 1: fund and all the deals that can come with that.
Speaker 1: You get to party on the yacht with Dustin and Paulina.
Speaker 1: Like I do think that Lives gonna be able to
Speaker 1: sell their franchises and that's how the public Investment fund
Speaker 1: gets their money back. Because there's thirteen teams now on
Speaker 1: Live Golf. They put John Rams together real quick. They're
Speaker 1: going to have two more expansion teams at some point,
Speaker 1: and so that that's fifteen teams, and if they sell
Speaker 1: them for let's say three hundred million dollars, that's four
Speaker 1: point five billion. The PIF gets seventy five percent of that.
Speaker 1: You know, they would get their money back in a hurry.
Speaker 2: So that's a big part of it.
Speaker 4: But can I can I just can I just ye.
Speaker 2: Jump in and interrupt his monologue? Please I I.
Speaker 4: Because you're you're you're you're sort of painting. You're trying
Speaker 4: to paint a picture for me and us of like
Speaker 4: how this might ultimately be pieced together. You're talking about
Speaker 4: you know, TV contract so distribution, you know, sale teams,
Speaker 4: you know, how how the investors might actually get you know,
Speaker 4: make this make sense that an actual business standpoint. The
Speaker 4: thing to me is, you know, at some point, is
Speaker 4: there going to be a point where it's too late?
Speaker 4: So Tiger forty eight, Phil like fifty what is he
Speaker 4: fifty three? You know, John Rahm is not being seen
Speaker 4: unless he's really playing at the the The actual eyeballs
Speaker 4: on the men's professional game is in the nose of
Speaker 4: that plane is pointing directly at the ground. And you
Speaker 4: have the most interesting protagonists off to this other league.
Speaker 4: They got their money. Whether that's they're still ambitious from
Speaker 4: a professional golf standpoint and trying to win things, we'll
Speaker 4: find out over time. I'm but they're not being They're
Speaker 4: not really even being seen. The guys who are being
Speaker 4: seen by the core audience at this point who watch
Speaker 4: an actual PGA Tour event week in and week out
Speaker 4: numbers down. Are you know, are are they that interesting?
Speaker 4: Apparently not? There is no actual you know, Rory, I
Speaker 4: love Rory, but he hasn't won He hasn't won a
Speaker 4: major in in is it as eleven years?
Speaker 2: I mean, what what are we going on? Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I mean what what? At what point? And you
Speaker 4: got YouTubers who are actually being seen in these these
Speaker 4: these you know, raw videos by more people than who
Speaker 4: watch men's professional golfers. That's that's the facts. Okay, So
Speaker 4: at one point does this become like the ship has sailed?
Speaker 4: It's too late, Like they they you can't continue to
Speaker 4: slam the door on the customer's face and continue to
Speaker 4: expect them to actually come back and want to frequent
Speaker 4: your your business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the that's the existential threat to both both
Speaker 1: tours right now is that they've turned off a lot
Speaker 1: of fans and how how do they win them back?
Speaker 4: Who wins them back? What format, what structure, what you
Speaker 4: know aside from a live versus PGA tour, Ryder Cup
Speaker 4: like this year, what you know? And the Majors. I've
Speaker 4: always said we are going to get more major, but
Speaker 4: we're going to find out if that's true. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think the Masters always does what it does. But
Speaker 4: after that, I mean, what you know, if Danny Willett
Speaker 4: goes out and wins this Masters, what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the TV ratings for this Masters are going to
Speaker 2: be highly scrutinized. If you know.
Speaker 1: One of the problems for the tour is that their
Speaker 1: best players haven't played well this year. You know, George
Speaker 1: speedth Justin Thomas, gone down the list, Colin Morrik k
Speaker 1: how like, all these guys haven't won a tournament and
Speaker 1: there's reason to question where they are in their careers
Speaker 1: because you look at Speed, He's won twice in like
Speaker 1: seven years, Thomas has been in a nose dive, just
Speaker 1: fired bones or parted ways with We don't know exactly
Speaker 1: how that played out yet, but you know, Marik cow
Speaker 1: has won once in three years. Like, these guys are
Speaker 1: just struggling in general, not just this year, but overall.
Speaker 1: Scheffler has become this dominant force. And what's not to
Speaker 1: like except for the fact he doesn't Scotty Scheffler is
Speaker 1: the guy we all want to marry our daughter, right.
Speaker 1: He's like wholesome and god fearing and just a wonderful
Speaker 1: human being. But he doesn't inspire any passion in fans. Really,
Speaker 1: he's just two aw shucks. There's no energy, there's no
Speaker 1: mojo there. And so yeah, the tour is in trouble
Speaker 1: because their products has suffered. They've lost a lot of
Speaker 1: big names, they've lost a lot of personality, they've lost
Speaker 1: the anti heroes. You know, they're banking on just the
Speaker 1: legacy the tour that if you win the La Open
Speaker 1: or you win Pebble Beats, you're a big deal. But
Speaker 1: the fans are kind of voting with their feet, and
Speaker 1: the ratings show that that's not necessarily the case. They
Speaker 1: want to watch Stars at Stars that drive the bus
Speaker 1: and the tour does not have enough of them right now.
Speaker 4: Well, so that's that's what I so, you know, I
Speaker 4: think listening to Rory, and again, I love that you
Speaker 4: said Rory mentioned to me because obviously in full swing,
Speaker 4: it made it look like, you know, not only did
Speaker 4: the tour not let you be a part of that,
Speaker 4: but it seemed like Rory wanted nothing to do with you,
Speaker 4: which I love the fact that, you know, you talk
Speaker 4: to him multiple times. It seems to me he of
Speaker 4: all people, has seen the light. He has seen he
Speaker 4: has been is been flip flopped on right. He was
Speaker 4: the poster child for you know, this partnership with Tiger
Speaker 4: and thus the institution that is the PGA Tour. Tiger's
Speaker 4: out protecting his you know, eighty two wins and you know,
Speaker 4: essentially his legacy. Rory is there to be his. You know,
Speaker 4: Batman and Robin were there. Rory gets thrown under the bus,
Speaker 4: dragged around. We saw him say, you know, at this point,
Speaker 4: I don't really actually give a shit what you guys do.
Speaker 4: You know, he said that in full swing. That was
Speaker 4: probably the most one of the most compelling moments of
Speaker 4: that of this season in which he just seems just
Speaker 4: you know, exhausted by all of it. Yeah, and and
Speaker 4: and and seeing the writing on the wall and him
Speaker 4: saying this is making no sense. Look at look at football,
Speaker 4: you know, ratings versus golf ratings. Look at the money.
Speaker 4: You know, three guys at the Players Championship tied for
Speaker 4: second and walked away with one point nine million dollars.
Speaker 4: I know one was I think Xander shaffe I can't
Speaker 4: take three guys finished second and walked away with almost
Speaker 4: two million dollars each. I don't even know who they are,
Speaker 4: and and certainly know that they didn't justify that kind
Speaker 4: of paycheck for that four rounds of golf with those
Speaker 4: types of ratings. It makes absolutely zero sense. So if
Speaker 4: you're Rory McElroy and the rumors are swoln an, why
Speaker 4: wouldn't you, you know, you've already been fucked over by
Speaker 4: the tour and all that the leadership. Why wouldn't you
Speaker 4: make sure you take the money and just like make
Speaker 4: this a tipping point and then actually have it see
Speaker 4: if you can actually then dig in and figure out
Speaker 4: and force people to do something that looks like it's
Speaker 4: a decision being made for the greater good of the
Speaker 4: future of men's professional golf and it better be fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Rory's a fascinating character in all of this, and
Speaker 1: you know he helped reach ape the tour that that
Speaker 1: player meeting that the hym and Tiger led in Wilmington
Speaker 1: in the summer of twenty two when that was basically
Speaker 1: the first time the tour fought back and was trying
Speaker 1: to match the live golf dollar for dollar, and that's
Speaker 1: when the elevated events were born. And you know, now Rory,
Speaker 1: he's he's he has a little bit of buyer's remorse,
Speaker 1: Like he said, maybe we pushed too hard, and maybe
Speaker 1: we held the tour ransom a little too much, and
Speaker 1: they've given too much to the players because, as you mentioned, Matt,
Speaker 1: professional golfers are now the most overpaid athletes in the world.
Speaker 1: It's not even close because the money they're making versus
Speaker 1: the audience they deliver. If you do dollar to fan,
Speaker 1: they would have the worst ratio in sports. Like and
Speaker 1: you know this quote that Rory said that's in this
Speaker 1: Business Week story is you know, guys want to be
Speaker 1: paid like NFL quarterbacks, but you know they're they're their
Speaker 1: ratings are fifty times ours. So it's that there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a correction in the marketplace.
Speaker 2: It's just a question of when it comes and how.
Speaker 1: But and you know now now, and Rory gave me
Speaker 1: some details on the on how the equity is gonna
Speaker 1: be distributed. You know, they have this list and they've
Speaker 1: got these algorithms. Told me Tiger's number one. Of course
Speaker 1: he's number two. He said, Phil would have been number two,
Speaker 1: but he's out now. And you know, these guys are
Speaker 1: gonna get another bonanza on this equity. It doesn't invest
Speaker 1: for eight years and they're still figuring out the mechanics
Speaker 1: how you can buy and sell. Guys will get more
Speaker 1: grants going forward. It's gonna have value, but how much
Speaker 1: is not entirely known or understood.
Speaker 4: Means these guys get older. Meanwhile, these guys get older
Speaker 4: and their results get worse. Like it. You know, golfers
Speaker 4: don't just stay great. You know, it is a actual
Speaker 4: round to round, shot to shot experience. We've seen people disappear.
Speaker 4: Why why are we just left to assume that these
Speaker 4: names just stay great, like unless there's an actual system
Speaker 4: that brings people through and you get fresh blood and
Speaker 4: new stories and new characters. You literally each year young
Speaker 4: and you you become extinct.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you pull the PGA Tour executives on
Speaker 1: who who they want to win this Masters, Roy would
Speaker 1: be the obvious choice, but I think probably Ludvig Aber
Speaker 1: would be the number two choice because they need they
Speaker 1: need more stars.
Speaker 2: But Ludwig gets the the.
Speaker 1: Golf nerds excited. But I don't think he has any
Speaker 1: crossover appeal yet. That's why you need this breakthrough to
Speaker 1: at a big, big tournament. But who were you know
Speaker 1: Nick Dunlap, who of course won as an amateur this
Speaker 1: year and now is a pro great player, but I
Speaker 1: covered him with the US Amateur. There's a charisma deficit there,
Speaker 1: Like he's going to be a very good tour player,
Speaker 1: he's not going to be a crossover star.
Speaker 4: Like minting the Woods is the the next Tiger Woods
Speaker 4: is the only hope. And that that takes time. That
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, these guys have gone out, you know,
Speaker 4: getting to three majors, four majors, five majors, that's really
Speaker 4: that's all my career. That's compelling. But fifteen majors and
Speaker 4: eighty two wins, that's what was the transcendent moment. That's
Speaker 4: why these guys are all getting and this guy is
Speaker 4: forty eight and broken in so many different ways shapes
Speaker 4: and forms, and you know what.
Speaker 1: I mean, Tim Fincham tried to leverage Tiger Woods and
Speaker 1: make golf a mainstream sport and that's why the wuc's
Speaker 1: were invented, the new TV contracts, and even with when
Speaker 1: Tiger in his prime, golf never quite got there. And now,
Speaker 1: of course he's in the bottom of the ninth for Tiger,
Speaker 1: like we can all see that.
Speaker 4: And he's getting his money now, I mean he's yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's kind of getting this these emeritis paychecks
Speaker 1: for you know, it's the pit money. And he's going
Speaker 1: to get these equity grants. That's a thank you for
Speaker 1: all that you did, for being alive, I mean now yeah,
Speaker 1: but like for surviving all these accidents. Like how much
Speaker 1: value is Tiger going to drive going forward? You know,
Speaker 1: probably not a ton, And the TGL is interesting and
Speaker 1: that's a way to keep Tiger in the spotlight and
Speaker 1: talking to I'm not.
Speaker 2: Really excited about that product.
Speaker 1: Some people, maybe you know, you mentioned the YouTubers, like
Speaker 1: maybe all the people who watch these YouTubers play golf
Speaker 1: will turn into TGL and that will be the next
Speaker 1: generation of golf fans that will help the sports survive.
Speaker 2: Who knows.
Speaker 1: But interestingly, when talking to the from of the Top
Speaker 1: Live executive, I said, to the TGL kind of hurt
Speaker 1: you guys, like, you know, they it's team golf. It's
Speaker 1: something different. It's younger, it's jazzier, Like it seems like
Speaker 1: they kind of stole your thunder.
Speaker 2: They said, no, we think the.
Speaker 1: TGL is great for Live because it introduces this team
Speaker 1: concept in a larger way. It kind of validates the
Speaker 1: idea of teams. It makes team golf part of this conversation.
Speaker 1: And they think that when the TGL launches, which is
Speaker 1: now going to be January of twenty five, that that
Speaker 1: helps Live. So I thought that was an interesting perspective.
Speaker 1: They may be right or they may be wrong, but
Speaker 1: you know, how how do you grow this audience. So
Speaker 1: one thing that Live announced that no one paid attention to,
Speaker 1: but I think is actually very cool is that And
Speaker 1: it was a big deal because they're partnering with with Google,
Speaker 1: which is obviously the most blue chip company in the world,
Speaker 1: and it's already being beta tested and by this summer.
Speaker 1: On the live app, you're gonna be able to watch
Speaker 1: every shot of every player, and that's a quantum leap
Speaker 1: forward for golf coverage. You know, we get it at
Speaker 1: the Players Championship. The Masters, you can sort of do
Speaker 1: it somewhat on delay. You know, if you go to
Speaker 1: Masters dot com or dot org I can't remember which one,
Speaker 1: whatever their website is.
Speaker 4: You can. And then they became Calm.
Speaker 2: I think that's right. Yeah, then you go.
Speaker 1: You can watch it every shot, but it's slightly delayed,
Speaker 1: and it's just like bang bang. It's it's a great
Speaker 1: tool for reporters because you go out walk for two
Speaker 1: hours and see everything you missed, but it's more like
Speaker 1: highlight highlight highlight. It's not the real EBB and flow
Speaker 1: of around and so live doing that is a huge
Speaker 1: thing for the sport as a concept, and so talking
Speaker 1: to the people at PGA Tour Studios, they will have
Speaker 1: the ability to do that by the end of this year.
Speaker 1: On the PGA Tour, I said, that's amazing.
Speaker 4: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Like, well, we're kind of locked into these contracts, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to roll it out very slowly. I
Speaker 1: was like, guys, the toothpastes is out of the tube. Like,
Speaker 1: if you want to stay relevant, you need to give
Speaker 1: the fans what they want. Like, well, you know it's
Speaker 1: gonna come online very slowly, a little bit each year.
Speaker 1: You know, we have we have our partners.
Speaker 2: It's like, I.
Speaker 4: Would think you would take some of that money that
Speaker 4: they're getting and instead of like continuing to pad the
Speaker 4: player's bank accounts, they actually spend you something, ripping up
Speaker 4: these contracts, paying out the contracts. That's what I said, Yeah,
Speaker 4: buy these guys out, but it's not.
Speaker 1: You know, the tour gets seven hundred million dollars a
Speaker 1: year from its TV partners. That's real money. But my
Speaker 1: whole thing is why not find a way to make
Speaker 1: it work for everyone? So if you could, you could
Speaker 1: partner with with ESPN on the street you already do
Speaker 1: on the streaming, give them the technology, they can charge more,
Speaker 1: you can split the difference and the fans get what
Speaker 1: they want. But that mentality like we can actually do
Speaker 1: this and it would be amazing, but we're not going
Speaker 1: to give it to the fans because we've got a
Speaker 1: contract for the next six years.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's so.
Speaker 1: Maddening, but you know this is how Live and the
Speaker 1: tour this push pull of trying to improve the product,
Speaker 1: like we may actually see that.
Speaker 4: Well, tell me, tell me about the Roy because that
Speaker 4: that Rory anecdote that you shared with me that's not
Speaker 4: in your story about his hyper awareness and an investment
Speaker 4: into F one and you know that was real to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there wasn't room for this, but Rory's invested in
Speaker 1: an F one team. He went to the race in
Speaker 1: Austin somewhat recently and one of his takeaways was is
Speaker 1: incredible how much the drivers give of themselves. They do
Speaker 1: all this corporate entertaining, they do all these meeting greets
Speaker 1: with fans. It's just so much of their workday is
Speaker 1: interfacing with customers essentially. And and so Rory does have
Speaker 1: a big picture of view. I said, well, that's what
Speaker 1: you need to bring to the tour, right, because now
Speaker 1: you guys own a piece of this business, you have
Speaker 1: to grow the business. And he said he said, I said,
Speaker 1: sounds easy, right, And he went haha ha ha ha,
Speaker 1: like this big theatrical laugh, because it's like getting tour
Speaker 1: players to buy into this even though they now own
Speaker 1: a piece of the business. It's such a different men,
Speaker 1: and so the tour has been trying to educate as
Speaker 1: players about these equity grants. Every week they get an
Speaker 1: email that has a link to a video that it's
Speaker 1: an explainer, and then it has like this kind of
Speaker 1: this PDF that explains it. There's been at least five
Speaker 1: and one of the player directors four of these to
Speaker 1: me and he's like, tell me what's in here? He
Speaker 1: hasn't even looked at it. And so like I asked
Speaker 1: Tom Hogy, you know, one of my favorite guys on
Speaker 1: tours kind of this good old boys, like, can you
Speaker 1: explain the equity?
Speaker 2: He's like, I have no idea. He's like, I don't
Speaker 2: even care.
Speaker 1: He's like whatever, He's like, he's like, you just got
Speaker 1: to play good and everything works out. Like okay, Well
Speaker 1: that's Tom Hogy, who I love. But you know again,
Speaker 1: So then I went to Luke List he's really smart,
Speaker 1: went to Vanderbilt. You know, I think he has a
Speaker 1: finance degree. I was like, Luke explained the equity to
Speaker 1: Me's like, oh, I have no idea, haven't looked at
Speaker 1: that stuff.
Speaker 2: It's like unbelievable.
Speaker 1: They are giving you a piece of the business and
Speaker 1: all these guys are thinking about is just how to
Speaker 1: make an eight footer, which on some level is probably
Speaker 1: the right way.
Speaker 2: To approach it.
Speaker 1: But this notion that these players are going to buy
Speaker 1: into this new structure, that they are owners, owner, operators
Speaker 1: of the tour and they need to grow the pie
Speaker 1: for each other and for their investors, that's a whole
Speaker 1: different mentality shift. And someone like Rory sees it, and
Speaker 1: you know, that's what he said, Like that's why he
Speaker 1: played at Cognizant in Palm Beach. He's like, it's a
Speaker 1: new sponsor. I want to support them. I now own
Speaker 1: a piece of this business. Like, you know, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: But how many guys are going to have that level
Speaker 1: of buying That remains to be seen.
Speaker 4: And I gotta say, I mean, I love Rory, and
Speaker 4: because he does, he does seem to be always trying
Speaker 4: to do the right thing. He you know, whether you
Speaker 4: agree or disagree or like or I do think that
Speaker 4: he just continues to strike me as someone who actually
Speaker 4: is trying to do the right thing. I don't think he's,
Speaker 4: you know, focused on growing his own bank account. I
Speaker 4: think he's actually trying to figure out a solution to
Speaker 4: almost the detriment of his results or his own game,
Speaker 4: and his and and and he subjects himself to all
Speaker 4: this ridicule. I just I actually feel for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's but it's it's instructive that I agree
Speaker 1: with what everything you said. But he also cut bait
Speaker 1: on being part of the tour leadership.
Speaker 4: Well, I win you after you get Yes, I wrote
Speaker 4: it by them because you get screwed. I mean, because
Speaker 4: he was like, that's city. I mean, he you know,
Speaker 4: I don't blame him. Yeah, that's how bad.
Speaker 1: That Monahan and and his cronies have screwed this whole
Speaker 1: thing up. Like they lost Rory, who's your most passionate
Speaker 1: advocate and your biggest star and a guy who does
Speaker 1: have this larger perspective.
Speaker 2: And that's unbelievable.
Speaker 4: I go back, gallent All, I always go back. We've
Speaker 4: had this conversation, We've talked this out before, you know,
Speaker 4: And I just keep thinking that all of this is
Speaker 4: a byproduct of the sport in general, in which you
Speaker 4: have to be so focused on yourself to truly make
Speaker 4: it on the tour. To be a successful professional golfer,
Speaker 4: you have to be so focused on yourself from the
Speaker 4: get from the from the the jump at this point,
Speaker 4: so we're going to get you know, you can't be
Speaker 4: this well rounded human being that's in for the greater good.
Speaker 4: And I do think this also, you know, materializes in
Speaker 4: moments like the Ryder Cup in which European stars are
Speaker 4: so have so much an easier time bonding and gelling
Speaker 4: and being selfless and giving themselves to this team concept
Speaker 4: because culturally they have done that, you know, all the
Speaker 4: way up you know. And again, if you know anything
Speaker 4: about Ireland and Irish culture, people don't let people get
Speaker 4: big heads over there. You're you, You get ridiculed. If
Speaker 4: you try to have a big eeo and get ahead
Speaker 4: of yourself, people are there to knock you back and
Speaker 4: straighten you out and keep you keep you grounded. And
Speaker 4: and that's certainly what comes across with all of those
Speaker 4: Irish greats. Uh and and there's a lot of them
Speaker 4: for a country of five and a half million that
Speaker 4: that you know, that have that have gone on to
Speaker 4: be great at the game of golf. But back to
Speaker 4: my point, like that, that mentality and that and without
Speaker 4: a player's union, that left golf vulnerable to this essentially
Speaker 4: hostile takeover by by the Saudis and by this, you know,
Speaker 4: this concept money dangling. You know, hey, look over here,
Speaker 4: shiny pennies. Uh, I'm going, I'm out, I'm over. You know,
Speaker 4: it didn't take long to literally, you know, poke holes
Speaker 4: into the bottom of the boat of this of this
Speaker 4: big ship. The tour got caught, didn't take meetings, underestimated
Speaker 4: their competition through all this, as you point out in
Speaker 4: this story, all these different little you know, what would
Speaker 4: Arnold Palmer say, you know, who was the original guy
Speaker 4: who you know made a break from the page? Do
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Like all of this, all
Speaker 4: of this individualistic mentality in it for me and not
Speaker 4: the greater good, not the long term, not the good
Speaker 4: of the sport. Unless you actually get people willing to
Speaker 4: put all of that individual mentality aside and you kind
Speaker 4: of strip everything away, you're not going to fix this.
Speaker 4: And I don't see that happening.
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was something actually that Shawn ol Flaherty,
Speaker 1: who McElroy's manager, said, I was like, how vulnerable was
Speaker 1: golf as an institution a sport if you could just
Speaker 1: rupt and blow up the entire thing with you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of billion dollars, like, you know, it was
Speaker 1: it just because the pg Tour had a monopoly on
Speaker 1: big time golf for so long. Any business without competition
Speaker 1: gets a little stale, and we saw that in the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. The TV product's been terrible, The social media
Speaker 1: offerings from the tour have been terrible. It's the unimaginative format,
Speaker 1: just one seventy two hole slog after another, going going
Speaker 1: to mediocre golf courses.
Speaker 4: Feelings, Phil, Phil, Phil, Right, you know, all of all
Speaker 4: of you you're saying is essentially what Phil was saying.
Speaker 4: I know, and we know. And the truth is Phil
Speaker 4: was actually in it for himself, for his own reasons,
Speaker 4: trying to play it off like I'm actually fighting for
Speaker 4: the greater good, which is such a crock of shit,
Speaker 4: because we know he was right about We know the
Speaker 4: real Phil. He was right about all of it. And
Speaker 4: so you got to tip your cap to him for that.
Speaker 4: And and and we as a breakout media company bumped
Speaker 4: into a lot of the issues very you know, in
Speaker 4: a small proportion. We'll get to that in a second,
Speaker 4: but that was part of what our our ripe was
Speaker 4: was like why are you being so controlling? Why aren't
Speaker 4: you actually cultivating people coming in and trying to share
Speaker 4: authentic and real story. He wanted a piece of his
Speaker 4: own pie as a brand and and a marquee, you know,
Speaker 4: player in the game as he was, you know, spading
Speaker 4: out of his career. But you know what I'm saying
Speaker 4: like that, that that's why we're here.
Speaker 1: I mean, the tour still today on April fifth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. If you do any kind of fun content
Speaker 1: on social media from and you have any bit of
Speaker 1: their live action, or even if you pull something off
Speaker 1: of the telecast like it'll you'll you'll hear from the
Speaker 1: tours lawyers and you'll have to take it down. And
Speaker 1: like they should, they should lower the guardrails and say
Speaker 1: lit and every creator, every fan, just have fun, do
Speaker 1: whatever you want. Like, but they're still living in you know,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety from And I get it. They want to
Speaker 1: protect their their partners who pay them all this money.
Speaker 1: But it's at the detriment of the fan base and
Speaker 1: interest in the sport and.
Speaker 4: The sponsors well yeah and so and the people who
Speaker 4: spend the money and the fans.
Speaker 2: I know, like.
Speaker 1: It's just the whole sport needs a mentality shift and
Speaker 1: you know, liv has tried to do that, like basically
Speaker 1: they let the players do kind of whatever they want
Speaker 1: out there. And you see, Bryson has a whole camera
Speaker 1: crew for every practice round and for every every pro
Speaker 1: am and they're always goofing off and doing stuff on
Speaker 1: the range. Now it's suboptimal because Bryson is such a goofball.
Speaker 1: He's not he's not really cool, and he's kind of
Speaker 1: maybe the wrong guy to be leading this revolution, but
Speaker 1: he's ring and.
Speaker 4: He has the opportunity to try.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But I mean, but we can talk about
Speaker 1: this all day. The big question is what's going to happen?
Speaker 1: Like how does this get fixed? And I asked everybody
Speaker 1: the same question, like what is going to happen with
Speaker 1: the framework agreement? And it was interesting because you know,
Speaker 1: Peter Malnaughty. When I talked to him in at Cognizance,
Speaker 1: he said, I'm confident that twelve months from now there
Speaker 1: will be a deal that will be undergoing government scrutiny.
Speaker 1: You know that we're going to get it done. And
Speaker 1: then he flew out there on the tour jet with
Speaker 1: all the other player directors and they met with Yasser
Speaker 1: actually at Tiger's condo, which I thought was a detail
Speaker 1: that nobody knew about. It was just a Tiger's condo,
Speaker 1: which apparently in reredible.
Speaker 4: Reporting, by the way, and the detail you have in
Speaker 4: your story of this whole scene is amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Tiger apparently Tiger's condo and albody has
Speaker 1: like not a single bit of golf memorabilia, nothing about
Speaker 1: his family. It's just it looks like an Airbnb rental.
Speaker 1: It's this totally sterile place. Yeah, and they met with
Speaker 1: you here and afterwards, you know, Manna, he told me,
Speaker 1: I'm less confident. You know, the visions are not totally aligned.
Speaker 1: Like he was impressed by Yasir and his warmth and
Speaker 1: his humanity and the guy loves golf, and they had
Speaker 1: nice conversations, but the vision of how to bring this
Speaker 1: all together is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sears warmth and humanity, which is just an amazing statement,
Speaker 4: I know, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a very charming guy.
Speaker 1: He's very polished, and they went in there thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: he was going to be this this adversary, but you know,
Speaker 1: I've been around him at these pro ams on live
Speaker 1: and he's a great schmoozer. So they got to feel that,
Speaker 1: but they he's also a cold blooded businessman and he
Speaker 1: comes from this culture where you know, saving face is
Speaker 1: a big deal. And people on Live have told me
Speaker 1: like he was pissed off that the tour consummated this
Speaker 1: deal with SSG and not the PIFF, like that was
Speaker 1: an insult to him. Yeah, think yeah, And now he's
Speaker 1: pissed and so he's driving a harder bargain. And also,
Speaker 1: what's at stake here, and this is where it gets
Speaker 1: super interesting, is if the Piff is going to invest
Speaker 1: in PG tour enterprises, what are the terms? And John Henry,
Speaker 1: who's the leader for SSG, he wants the PIFF to
Speaker 1: come in because he sees them as the biggest threat
Speaker 1: to the tour rightfully, if they keep taking their best
Speaker 1: players and keep damaging the tour. And so he's been
Speaker 1: pushing for that to get done, which is significant. But
Speaker 1: the players, now, some of them on the board who
Speaker 1: think of themselves as business experts, now they're saying, well,
Speaker 1: if we sell more equity to the Piff, we're diluting ourselves.
Speaker 1: And so now they're starting to think selfishly like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not sure we want these investors like
Speaker 1: we've got this money from ss gee, now we've got
Speaker 1: to give away another eleven and a half or another
Speaker 1: you know, twenty three percent.
Speaker 2: To the to the piff. Then that's the.
Speaker 1: Our pie keeps shrinking. And so that's become a source
Speaker 1: of tension.
Speaker 2: So you have the ego, you have the greed, you have.
Speaker 1: This sort of misalignment on what it should look like
Speaker 1: because yes, her is a true believer in Team Golf,
Speaker 1: and the guys on the tour are like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not really our thing. So and how who gets who
Speaker 1: gets to run this thing becomes really a big deal.
Speaker 1: I mean the framew agreement. But y'all sere in charge
Speaker 1: of the of you know, he's the chairman of the board.
Speaker 1: Does a guy like John Henry or Arthur Blank want
Speaker 1: to have him as their boss? You know there used
Speaker 1: to being the baller slash shot callar. Now you've got
Speaker 1: this guy running the show. And if you take a
Speaker 1: cold analysis of Live, I mean from a business standpoint,
Speaker 1: as of now, it's been a colossal failure. Right, They've
Speaker 1: poured billions of dollars into this thing. Now if they
Speaker 1: can sell the franchises, they can get it back. But
Speaker 1: from an operational standpoint. Year to year, you know, they're
Speaker 1: spending eight hundred million dollars a year to put this
Speaker 1: thing on and their revenue is at best ten percent
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: So the guys at SSGU who.
Speaker 1: Are these really serious businessmen and serious bean counters, are like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take these guys on as a partner, Like
Speaker 1: they can't run their business. And so you've got this
Speaker 1: culture class, You've got these warring values.
Speaker 2: You've got so.
Speaker 1: Everyone feels like the Framek agreement is just on a
Speaker 1: knife's edge, and no one is confident it's going to
Speaker 1: get done. There's a faction that want it to get done.
Speaker 1: And you know, talking to other the people who are
Speaker 1: on the board of directors for the PGA tour, they
Speaker 1: feel like Tiger has his position has evolved. Where he
Speaker 1: was anti piff kind of you know, because Tiger's tribal
Speaker 1: and he's vindictive, right, but now it's now it's pragmatic,
Speaker 1: like we got to fix this thing.
Speaker 2: We want to put on the best product. The tour
Speaker 2: is withering.
Speaker 1: By definition, my legacy is going to be devalued if
Speaker 1: the tour just sucks. And and so Tiger, from all
Speaker 1: accounts has kind of shifted to willing to deal with
Speaker 1: the piff, which is significant because he's the dominant personality
Speaker 1: among the players, as we all know. But it's nobody
Speaker 1: knows what's going to happen. I'm not sure even you
Speaker 1: know you here and Jay no or John Henry, like,
Speaker 1: it's it's just there's so there's so much to to
Speaker 1: get through to get to a deal, so we all
Speaker 1: want clarity. It's still elusive and it's probably not coming
Speaker 1: anytime soon.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, meanwhile, you know who has figured it out? Top
Speaker 4: golf grass clippings WP nine goat Hill Park, Like, Meanwhile,
Speaker 4: the game of golf, the actual you know, what's happening
Speaker 4: for people who actually, you know, think golf is so
Speaker 4: much more than just whatever this is all that we're
Speaker 4: talking about. Yeah, it's just so much more interesting, vibrant, healthy, fun,
Speaker 4: you know, and has such a bright future. I just
Speaker 4: think time the sand in the hour glass, it's not unlimited.
Speaker 4: And these guys are playing around and making a mockery
Speaker 4: of the true investors in the game, which are the fans,
Speaker 4: and they're losing them one time, and you know, and
Speaker 4: we have kids, and none of them are watching TV.
Speaker 4: They're all on YouTube, they're all on their iPads, they're
Speaker 4: all on social media. And I'm telling you right now,
Speaker 4: we the traditional purest golf fan are dying off one
Speaker 4: at a time, and Tiger's legacy gets one day older
Speaker 4: every day that goes by. And this they better all that,
Speaker 4: you say, all those people, if they don't figure these
Speaker 4: smart people who are very wealthy, if they don't focus
Speaker 4: on the people who actually, you know, drive the boat,
Speaker 4: it's all going to go down at the bottom of
Speaker 4: the ocean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the TV ratings. I think there's a
Speaker 1: straight line between following TV ratings and increased participation. Like
Speaker 1: guys who maybe before we're sitting at home watching golf
Speaker 1: on TV, They're like, I'm just going to go play.
Speaker 1: I don't really care about this anymore.
Speaker 4: That's what I've done. I miss I miss I miss caring.
Speaker 4: I actually miss caring. I love I love golf. I
Speaker 4: loved professional golf. I do love. I love where women's
Speaker 4: professional golf is going. I love where you know, amateur
Speaker 4: golf is and going. I you know, I hope you
Speaker 4: know looking forward to you know, we're covering positive the
Speaker 4: Western intercollegiate. You know, I think there's gonna be some
Speaker 4: really cool stuff that we have access to as viewers,
Speaker 4: but it's not men's professional golf. I do look forward
Speaker 4: to the Majors now I'm looking forward to the Masters.
Speaker 4: I like a lot of players on both sides. Quite frankly,
Speaker 4: I've gotten to know them, I've spent time. I think.
Speaker 4: I think I'm probably a lot like a lot of
Speaker 4: people where it's like, are you guys shitting me? Are
Speaker 4: you guys not? Have you not figured this out yet?
Speaker 4: Do something? Do anything other than point fingers, look confused,
Speaker 4: turn on each other, you know, keep talking about how
Speaker 4: something's come, something's coming. We're going to get figure you're
Speaker 4: it out.
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, yeah, the Masters is a welcome respite,
Speaker 1: but let's hope it's a transcendent one. And you know,
Speaker 1: these next three months are important. The focus will be
Speaker 1: on on the golf. Right, You've got Augusta, you have
Speaker 1: the PGA. The US Open at Pinehurst is other than
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach. You know, Pinehurst might be the best venue
Speaker 1: just from a It's just it's just American golf, right,
Speaker 1: It's this this temple of American golf, and and it's
Speaker 1: such a.
Speaker 4: Wonderful time it's gonna still be that ongoing conversation of
Speaker 4: where are the live players versus the PGA Tour players
Speaker 4: and this you know, everyone act acted shocked. You know
Speaker 4: that Phil and and Brooks and and and and you know,
Speaker 4: Patrick Reid some of these other guys were in contention
Speaker 4: last year as though just because they went over to
Speaker 4: live they were somehow going to not be able to
Speaker 4: play golf. Like I just you know, there's a chance
Speaker 4: that a live player wins every one of the majors
Speaker 4: this year and.
Speaker 1: Then what yeah, well I think that would actually be
Speaker 1: helpful in getting a deal done, you know, just like
Speaker 1: John Rahm going to live, I think makes it more
Speaker 1: likely that the tour will bend and consummate some sort
Speaker 1: of agreement with the.
Speaker 2: Piff they are bent. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, if if you're a pg Tour loyalist and
Speaker 1: you hate Live, you should probably root for the live
Speaker 1: guys in the majors, because the more success they have,
Speaker 1: I think more likely everyone says, Okay, we got to
Speaker 1: fix this, But yeah, it's it's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1: It is an unmistakable subplot. I mean, like for Rom
Speaker 1: defending Masters Champion, that was a huge move on the
Speaker 1: chess board for Live to sign him, but he hasn't.
Speaker 2: He hasn't won an event on Live this year. So
Speaker 2: either that means two things.
Speaker 1: The standard of play on Live is higher than people think,
Speaker 1: because we know John ram is a great golfer, has
Speaker 1: been able to win one, or it's an indictment of Live.
Speaker 1: Rom got the money and now he's like he's not
Speaker 1: trying as hard.
Speaker 2: You know, it cuts them both ways.
Speaker 4: It might it's not an indictment on Live, it might
Speaker 4: be an indictment on Rum. I mean the guy he's
Speaker 4: now they have they're pregnant with their third child.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he's got a lot going on.
Speaker 4: It's a huge and.
Speaker 1: It's a huge change of the professional life. It's too
Speaker 1: small a sample size. Like John ram is still a
Speaker 1: great golfer, but there is pressure on.
Speaker 2: Him to deliver in the major.
Speaker 1: It's just like you know, Dustin has had great success
Speaker 1: on Live, but he's just been laying eggs in the majors.
Speaker 1: Like if he doesn't do something this year, he's completely
Speaker 1: forgotten as a big time player.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's the.
Speaker 1: Same with with jocku Nieman, Like he he's been tearing
Speaker 1: up on live, he's won in Australia, and he's had
Speaker 1: good finishes around.
Speaker 2: The world and non live events.
Speaker 1: But if he's going to if he's going to be
Speaker 1: considered one of the best players in the world, he's
Speaker 1: got deliver in the major. So the majors pulsate with
Speaker 1: that tension. As you mentioned earlier, they become more major like,
Speaker 1: they have more meaning. And so let's see it like
Speaker 1: these next three months are gonna tell us a lot.
Speaker 2: But it's also a.
Speaker 1: Throws into sharp relief that the events that matter are
Speaker 1: not on the PGA Tour or on liv golf. There
Speaker 1: are these other things, and that's another structural problem for
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's thank god the Masters is here.
Speaker 1: All these background issues will subside for at least four
Speaker 1: days and we can just enjoy the competition.
Speaker 2: But then as soon as.
Speaker 1: It's over, who wins and who loses takes on different
Speaker 1: shades of meaning. So uh, it's it's a fascinating moment.
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's not it's just it's not done.
Speaker 1: It's this is going to go on throughout twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four and then either or either they will consummate an agreement.
Speaker 1: They will find some bridges and some on ramps to
Speaker 1: bring the players back, and then twenty five will be
Speaker 1: this transitional year of hybrid turn ornaments and sponsors exemptions,
Speaker 1: and it'll be interesting and messy, or the whole thing
Speaker 1: blows up and then you Sare gets out his check
Speaker 1: book and he signs a bunch of guys and the
Speaker 1: twenty five season gets even more messy and intriguing. So
Speaker 1: it's not done whatever. Twenty four, it's gonna keep going.
Speaker 1: Twenty five is where the rubber is going to meet
Speaker 1: the road one way or the other. So the end
Speaker 1: is not nigh. I mean, there's still a lot for
Speaker 1: us to go through as golf fans.
Speaker 4: In that scenario, the PGA Tour essentially becomes the corn
Speaker 4: Ferry Tour, right Like, essentially that becomes that becomes the
Speaker 4: only thing they have left they have what's left over.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, if if the spam agruement blows up
Speaker 1: and Yahir puts all his chips in the mill of
Speaker 1: table and he signs three or four more top players
Speaker 1: off of the tour, however we define that, then yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the balance of power is shifted. Just from
Speaker 1: when you look at there's different ways you can measure it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Live has two of the four reigning major champions right now.
Speaker 1: They've got Ram and they've got Kopka. So but if
Speaker 1: you just look at players who inspire passion, who moved
Speaker 1: the needle on some way, you know, it's it's at
Speaker 1: least equal, I would say. And if if LIV picks
Speaker 1: off more guys, then the then the tour is really
Speaker 1: really in trouble. That's that's where the pressure is to
Speaker 1: get this deal done. But also you sear knows that.
Speaker 1: So it's just so messy.
Speaker 4: You know, you talk about those TV contracts and and
Speaker 4: and we you've also point out the Andy Gardner. Oh,
Speaker 4: by the way, the lawsuit that he has going with uh,
Speaker 4: you know, the piff you essentially stole his stolen his concept,
Speaker 4: which you say was originally ported it reported like ten million,
Speaker 4: and now that actually is more like almost five hundred million. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So Andy Gardner was he was the visionary of the
Speaker 5: Premier Golf League and he's the one who got who
Speaker 5: recruited the Saudis as investors.
Speaker 1: Him and his lieutenants brought the Saudis to the table
Speaker 1: and they tried to they tried to forge to steal
Speaker 1: the European tour that Monahan swooped in created a strategic alliance.
Speaker 1: Like all these things happened, and the PGL went away,
Speaker 1: and then some two of his top guys defected and
Speaker 1: went to Live and very quickly Live came together and
Speaker 1: their concept was cut and paste from the Premier Golf League.
Speaker 1: I always wondered why Andy Gardner didn't sue, And what
Speaker 1: turns out they've been having these negotiations for a long
Speaker 1: time to reach a settlement. And the Times of London
Speaker 1: reported earlier this year and they said the amount they
Speaker 1: were seeking was more than ten million dollars. Well, I
Speaker 1: talked to a Premier Golf League investors that yeah, it's
Speaker 1: four hundred and seventy million. It's a lot more than
Speaker 1: ten and so that becomes another line item for Live Golf,
Speaker 1: Like that's another loss right.
Speaker 2: They're going to have to settle.
Speaker 1: That the case. There's no way they could win that case.
Speaker 1: I mean, they so clearly took the PGL. Pgl's intellectual property.
Speaker 1: So that's just another that's just another deficit on on
Speaker 1: on the balance sheet, you know, and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of money. I don't know, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: four seventy, but it could be half that. And that's
Speaker 1: real money that now Live Golf has to make up
Speaker 1: in this whole thing.
Speaker 4: So I guess it's real money. When you're talking about
Speaker 4: what the money they have and their resources, it's like
Speaker 4: literally what I might have in my in my in
Speaker 4: my pocket right now. I mean it might.
Speaker 1: All right, so this, let's transition this a little bit
Speaker 1: and people may be wondering, you know why I wrote
Speaker 1: the story for Bloomberg Business Weekend, not not Firepit collected
Speaker 1: dot com. And we've been over the last three four, five,
Speaker 1: six months sort of transitioning the business.
Speaker 4: Speaking of hemorrhaging and restructuring and trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been a We've been a startup in a
Speaker 1: very turbulent time for the media industry. You just look
Speaker 1: at all the macro trends, you know, all the layoffs
Speaker 1: at the New York Times and the Athletic and the
Speaker 1: La Times and you can go on down the list.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a tough time to be in the
Speaker 1: media business. And so we've stopped trying to be an
Speaker 1: algorithm chasing media company pumping out a lot of content
Speaker 1: because it's just very, very hard to monetize, and especially
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking off and on for two
Speaker 1: years about going to substack and having a paywall for
Speaker 1: all of our content. And the challenge is golf dot
Speaker 1: Com and Golf dies dot com and no laying up
Speaker 1: dot com and all these places, it's all free.
Speaker 2: They're giving it away, all for free.
Speaker 1: So it's tough sledding to to try and monetize the content.
Speaker 2: You have to you have to do it in other ways.
Speaker 4: But and they've built a sand base over time, and
Speaker 4: rightfully so I mean that they have. They have established
Speaker 4: brands and and they've done They've you know, they've put
Speaker 4: in the work. There's no shortcuts to to fan base,
Speaker 4: that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes time, and you know, we're still sort
Speaker 1: of only a couple of years into this journey.
Speaker 2: So how would you.
Speaker 1: Describe where we are at the fire pit right now, Matt?
Speaker 1: For people who've been wondering in wonders we did this.
Speaker 1: We haven't been podcasting as much, I haven't been writing
Speaker 1: as much because it's just we're trying to reshape the business.
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, I just I think we're we're back
Speaker 4: to the screws and back to you know again. I
Speaker 4: launched what was down Patrol Productions in February of twenty twenty,
Speaker 4: a month before that was going to be a travel
Speaker 4: lifestyle you know, Buddy's trip based production company, and that
Speaker 4: was a month before COVID. That was bad timing. Which
Speaker 4: then we we started talking about the idea of creating
Speaker 4: a collective group of storytellers with you know, different silos,
Speaker 4: different you know, different angles of attack on the game
Speaker 4: of golf. And you know, we we grew that a
Speaker 4: little drunk on actually your your fill you know globally
Speaker 4: viral you know, news and book on on the energy
Speaker 4: around all of that. That was that was exciting times
Speaker 4: and it seemed like, oh wow, this is going to
Speaker 4: be easy. Well it's actually not easy. I have been
Speaker 4: humbled into, like, uh, a place in which I never
Speaker 4: could have imagined. It's just, you know, startups, managing human beings.
Speaker 4: Hiring is really fun. Letting people go is not. That's
Speaker 4: that's brutal. We've lost a lot of you know, friendships,
Speaker 4: and through it all, it's I've learned a lot about
Speaker 4: who who real friends are. It's it's just the whole
Speaker 4: thing has been been exhausting, but where we are now
Speaker 4: seems to make a lot more sense. We're getting back
Speaker 4: to and I think the marketplace is getting back to,
Speaker 4: you know, celebrating buddies trips. You had two years of COVID,
Speaker 4: then you had two years of full t sheets in
Speaker 4: which marketing dollars went away and there was no money
Speaker 4: actually being spent around the idea of trying to tell
Speaker 4: people where to stay and play because everyone was already
Speaker 4: staying and playing. So on the heels of all of
Speaker 4: that and where we are now, we're getting back to.
Speaker 4: You know, I am getting back to creating content and
Speaker 4: that's my focus, telling stories and that's part in part
Speaker 4: along the lines of the Lab podcast series, but also
Speaker 4: travel Buddies trips and and and events. So you know,
Speaker 4: been running the Uncle Tony Invitational. We have new partners
Speaker 4: in the events business that we are going to announce
Speaker 4: here in the next two weeks that we're very excited about.
Speaker 4: We're going to have we have events on the books
Speaker 4: for twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five already. They're
Speaker 4: going to be built around access, experience, camaraderie, and competition.
Speaker 4: Those are going to be the four pillars of what
Speaker 4: we are going to be offering in what's going to
Speaker 4: be called Bonfires. The you know, we went about this
Speaker 4: in which let's create content and focus on content, and
Speaker 4: someday we'll have events to put the you know, sort
Speaker 4: of horse now back in front of the cart and say,
Speaker 4: let's have events. Let's go to great destinations. Let's let's
Speaker 4: create some access and experience that camaraderie and competition and
Speaker 4: the partners we have in this are very exciting to me,
Speaker 4: and I think it would be very exciting to our
Speaker 4: fan base and our followers. And it's going to be
Speaker 4: at places, you know, like Pasa Teampa, like Golden Gate Park,
Speaker 4: like Gamble Sands, it's going to be goat Hill Park.
Speaker 4: You know, we're going to be able to actually get
Speaker 4: out there and get with the people who play the game,
Speaker 4: who pay to play the game, and create some expiment
Speaker 4: covering buddy strips and the best of Buddies trips and
Speaker 4: the best alpha planners of those Buddies trips for the
Speaker 4: last fifteen years. You know, have you know, did sixty
Speaker 4: ambushes at Golf Digest in which I parachuted in and
Speaker 4: sort of reported on why the trips I've been running
Speaker 4: Uncle Tony Invitational for now over you know, ten twelve years,
Speaker 4: and the partners we have in this endeavor have been
Speaker 4: running you know trips and really you know, quality experiences
Speaker 4: for almost ten years. So all of that is coming
Speaker 4: and I think we're getting back to the basics, our roots,
Speaker 4: and and we're getting back to our future, which is
Speaker 4: exciting to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you mentioned Passe Tempo and Crazy Mountain
Speaker 1: Ranch and Gamble Sands, like we've we've been already chronicling
Speaker 1: what's happening at these places through like that what we
Speaker 1: call in the dirt, like kind of those immersive video storytelling.
Speaker 2: Where we're these these they're building a.
Speaker 1: New golf course at Gamble Crazy Mountains of a brand
Speaker 1: new build Core Crunshaw, they reshaped Golden Gate, like we're
Speaker 1: kind of in the dirt from the beginning watching it happen.
Speaker 1: And it's going to be neat to be able to
Speaker 1: take people to play these courses. In case of Gamble,
Speaker 1: you know, this fall, it'll be some of the first
Speaker 1: people ever just to lay eyes on this new golf
Speaker 1: course Pas Tempo all.
Speaker 2: Eighteen new Mackenzie Greens.
Speaker 1: Well we'll have some of the first access to that
Speaker 1: golf course, and you and I will be there. The
Speaker 1: vision is to have the architects and other other key
Speaker 1: people will do a round table, you know, really bring
Speaker 1: it to life, so the person who not all you
Speaker 1: get to play the golf course, but you get to
Speaker 1: have this whole cool experience with the people who behind it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really a fun part of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, you know, I've always loved you know,
Speaker 4: architecture and how architecture bleeds into the experience of the golf.
Speaker 4: But there's always so much more than just that, right
Speaker 4: than just the shot you might hit on that hole
Speaker 4: or from that fair away or that finishing hole. It's
Speaker 4: also about you know, what's happening off the course in
Speaker 4: that area. It's you know, as you know with the
Speaker 4: Uncle Tony's live music, dice tournaments, short courses, you know,
Speaker 4: there's tournaments within the tournament, and then there's buddies trips
Speaker 4: within the Buddy's trip itself. That is something that that
Speaker 4: I've been chronicling and and learning from for a long time,
Speaker 4: and I you know, should have done it sooner, but
Speaker 4: I quite frankly we couldn't have, you know, given the
Speaker 4: constraints of of a global pandemic, and then on the
Speaker 4: heels of that, and then in the throes of trying
Speaker 4: to manage this, you know, the the rise and fall
Speaker 4: of a startup. I think that you know, and it's
Speaker 4: all cliche. You learn more from your losses than your wins.
Speaker 4: I think through this process with people like you and
Speaker 4: and several others that you know that I know in
Speaker 4: my life who have been guiding us through the tough times,
Speaker 4: I think we've we've finally kind of cleared this the
Speaker 4: smoke on the track and we we can get back
Speaker 4: to you know, driving the car that that we love
Speaker 4: to drive and h and an open road.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean one thing you said, like we kind of
Speaker 1: the vision for the Firepit was like, let's let's build
Speaker 1: something that we can just.
Speaker 2: Do what we love to do. And it turned out
Speaker 2: like we went.
Speaker 1: We spent so much time building decks and on sales
Speaker 1: calls and managing people.
Speaker 2: It was like it was.
Speaker 1: An incredible learning experience, but it got both of us
Speaker 1: away from from the things that we actually love. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, what I love doing is writing books. I've
Speaker 1: got a couple of projects that I'm nursing slowly. I'm
Speaker 1: working on a screenplay about kind of based off my
Speaker 1: old story about Cameron, you know, Jose toa Jesus Rodriguez,
Speaker 1: like one of the all time biggest underdogs in the
Speaker 1: history of sports. That's been a really fun process. It's
Speaker 1: it's interesting how these things kind of come full circle.
Speaker 1: I mean, I started on the Golf Beat ninety four,
Speaker 1: so this is like thirty years and the day to
Speaker 1: day grind, the daily news breaks. I'm just I have trouble.
Speaker 1: I'm just I just it's not how I want to
Speaker 1: spend my my d winding years is you know, kind
Speaker 1: of chronicling the ebbs and flows from a day to
Speaker 1: day basis, Like I want to focus on these bigger projects.
Speaker 1: We got a couple of docu series that we're excited about.
Speaker 1: You and I'm Matt, that we're out, we're out shopping
Speaker 1: to people, and so it just was kind of the
Speaker 1: right moment to get away from writing news stories and
Speaker 1: even tournament coverage. So it's yeah, it's just sort of
Speaker 1: this natural evolution then gives both of us the space
Speaker 1: to to focus on on the things that we're really
Speaker 1: passionate about. It's I'm of course super here for and
Speaker 1: excited about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been a it's been rough. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: when Sam and you know, swim upstream, they have to
Speaker 4: avoid a lot of pitfalls and grizzly bears and and
Speaker 4: and all the trials and tribulations. You know, the exhaustion
Speaker 4: that it takes to get back to the to the
Speaker 4: spawning zone. But you know, once they get there, it's
Speaker 4: it's a it's a very you know, a peaceful setting.
Speaker 4: And I that's that's sort of where it feels like
Speaker 4: for me, and I think you probably feel the same.
Speaker 4: But yeah, the docuseriies concepts, the events, podcasting, telling quality stories,
Speaker 4: architecture experiences, and the access that we can that we
Speaker 4: can bring to you know, not only the people who
Speaker 4: design the courses, but then musicians and special guests and
Speaker 4: celebrities who love the game and love the places we're
Speaker 4: going to take them. This is and then the content
Speaker 4: that comes out of that, you know, instead of trying
Speaker 4: to create content that ultimately leads to events, let's create
Speaker 4: events that ultimately lead to quality content. That's that's where
Speaker 4: this is all going. And always a pleasure to to
Speaker 4: be on with you and to hear from you and
Speaker 4: to get a better understanding of that point zero zero
Speaker 4: whatever percent that you know, get paid to play the game.
Speaker 4: What a mess, what a dumpster fire. I you know,
Speaker 4: I still don't see how or why or when this
Speaker 4: actually gets quote fixed. I'm rooting for it to be fixed,
Speaker 4: you know. I I originally was rooting for the disruption
Speaker 4: because I think that it needed an overhaul. But now
Speaker 4: that we're here, it's like, oh wow, Now I kind
Speaker 4: of hope that they get it sorted and soon, because
Speaker 4: because I do see the impact of how a quality
Speaker 4: men's professional game can can support the greater good of
Speaker 4: a lot of different efforts, and there are a lot
Speaker 4: of good people on both sides that are playing for
Speaker 4: these two different teams, you know, and and so hopefully
Speaker 4: it goes there. But in the meantime, I think, as
Speaker 4: I've said before, it's for it's you know, we're recording
Speaker 4: this on a Friday. It's going to be dropped on
Speaker 4: the week of the first major of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: I do love the Masters. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 4: I also looking forward to the Goat Masters on Saturday
Speaker 4: at Goathill Park. Been working hard on my game. We
Speaker 4: are all our favorite golfers and looking forward to getting
Speaker 4: back with you Abandon Dune's twenty fifth anniversary in May.
Speaker 4: We'll be there and you'll be my partner. But I
Speaker 4: also want to beat you.
Speaker 2: So weird.
Speaker 1: Matt and I have like a thirty plus year running
Speaker 1: grudge match, and if you total the tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of holes we've played against each other, I mean one
Speaker 1: of us is probably one up.
Speaker 2: Like it's insane.
Speaker 4: I think we're actually yeah, if it's somebody's up to me.
Speaker 4: But I think if we ask Kevin Price, who's witnessed
Speaker 4: most of those rounds and has kept a tabulation of
Speaker 4: hole by hole, I think he'd probably say we are
Speaker 4: all square. But I and you are one of my
Speaker 4: main motivations to my now nine lessons with Will Crop
Speaker 4: at Goathill Park, So thank you for that. You're my
Speaker 4: you know, competition pre eje excellents.
Speaker 2: I gotta, I gotta, I gotta tune up. But anyway,
Speaker 2: this was good fun. Go to Firepit Collected dot com.
Speaker 1: Check out the lab series we're talking about at the
Speaker 1: beginning of this. Check out this Business Week story. I
Speaker 1: think it'll be edifying for a lot of fans who
Speaker 1: have kind of followed this, we will be back with
Speaker 1: cool stuff.
Speaker 2: After the Masters will announce the events.
Speaker 1: You're definitely gonna want to get to Gamble and PASA
Speaker 1: and Crazy Mountains and some of these other Some of
Speaker 1: these other events are gonna be super cool at.
Speaker 4: Gohill Park, Golden Golden Gate Park will awesome. We're gonna
Speaker 4: run the gamut of yeah, of what the venues will
Speaker 4: be and the experiences you can have at each one.
Speaker 4: Each one will have its own personality and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Wronghorn, I mean that's that's place I've always
Speaker 1: wanted to get to.
Speaker 2: I'm excited about that one.
Speaker 1: Like there's so this can be fun and we're just
Speaker 1: building this like I think twenty twenty twenty five is
Speaker 1: going to be tremendous. So anyway, thanks as always for listening.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you sickos who have stayed till the very end.
Speaker 1: You know, you're you're the This is why we do
Speaker 1: this stuff. It's uh, Matt and I enjoy it. But
Speaker 1: it's all about kind of connecting with the fans out there.
Speaker 1: Unlike the PGA Tour, We're still in touch with the fans.
Speaker 1: We still care about the fans and you guys mean
Speaker 1: a lot to us, So thanks for going on this journey,
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to this podcast, and for now that's
Speaker 1: a fire drill for Matt Janella. I'm Alan Shipnek, thanks
Speaker 1: for listening.
Speaker 4: And oh I step on eat your famous perfect It's
Speaker 4: a metaphor I did want to just say. Also, we
Speaker 4: are fans of Griffin House, who sings the song here
Speaker 4: for this podcast, which you'll hear now.
Speaker 3: I'm being big and I played the wind, made a
Speaker 3: fortune when my ship game and.
Speaker 4: On the table.
Speaker 6: Never thought I could fall down. The winter time hit
Speaker 6: me like a cannon in the ball and now I
Speaker 6: can't shake this losing streak. Every road I take is
Speaker 6: a dead end street.
Speaker 3: I got thoughts in my head, can't get them out,
Speaker 3: trying not to think what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 4: I've gotten thoughts in my head.
Speaker 3: I can't get them out, trying not to think what
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about.