WEBVTT - Kill 'Em All: Metallica vs. Megadeth 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:14.480 Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone, 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.720 and welcome to Rivals, the show about music, beefs and 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.600 feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm Jordan's and today we're here to answer the biggest 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.200 question in heavy metal. You know, really, it's one of 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.600 life's great questions. It's up there with why are we here? 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.360 And are we alone in the universe. Today we're going 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:35.200 to tackle the age old question Metallica or Megadeth. Yes, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:37.120 although I'm sure there's somebody out there who's mat that 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.680 we're not also talking about Slayer and Anthrax, you know, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.440 all due respect to the Big Four, but we're focusing 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.040 on Metallica and Megadeth because these bands are linked by 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.800 one Dave mus Stain, who used to be a Metallica 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:50.720 and then was kicked out before they put out their 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.520 first record, Kill Them All in the eighty three. After 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.520 that he formed Megadeth with the goal of the throning 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.440 Metallica from the top of the thrash metal heap. Uh. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.160 He's like Robert de Niro in Cape Fear and Metallica 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:06.360 is the Nickna character. That's amazing. Yes, I mean you know, 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.200 it's not gonna come as much of a surprise that 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.080 I'm not the world's biggest metal head. But the feud 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.399 between Dave Mustain and his ex Metallica bandmates fascinates me 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.600 to no end. It's just one of the most intense 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.320 band on band rivalries ever because it's so damn personal. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.920 Mustain was fired from the group literally days before they 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.080 went into the studio to record their first album, which 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:27.800 sent him on the road to being the biggest metal 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.880 band ever. They put him on a cross country greyhound 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.760 Penny listens scrounging for potato chips for four days with 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:37.840 nothing to do but plot is revenge, that's cold, and 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.800 he forms Mega Death in an attempt to out metal Metallica. 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.440 And just imagine being defined by your worst moment. That's 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.920 pretty much what happened to Dave Mustain. His entire life 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.720 was shaped by the single incident. And Mustain, to me, 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.920 is such a compelling, tragic comic hero. He's like Gatsby. 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.120 He just can't let go of the past, and even 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.440 when he tries, he can't escape it. It's Metallica. They're 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.080 that ubiquitous, They're that assive. No matter how big Megadeth 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.080 get they'll never be Metallica, And yet I know there 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.160 are true blue metal fans out there who prefer Megadeth 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.960 to Metallica for the very reason that Megadeth never really 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.120 went pop. You know, they've stayed true to the metal 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.760 path for about thirty five years while Metallica pursued MTV 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.400 fame and power ballot hits. Dave Mustain isn't as famous 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.840 as Lars al Rick, but de Mustain also never became 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.600 the focus of scorn because he spoke out against napster, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.800 you know. So you know there are cases for success, 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.000 whether it's commercial or artistic, to be made on both 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.080 sides of this equation. So without further ado, let's get 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:40.239 into this mess. Like so many of life and pleasantries, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.320 this whole thing is Laras al Ric's fault. It was 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.840 he who put the classified ad in a local newspaper 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.760 which read drummer looking for another metal musicians the jam 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.000 with Tigers of Pentang, Diamond Head and Iron Maiden. Those 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.760 were his influences, it was, and the teenage Lars had 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.240 recently immigrated to l A from Denmark with dreams of 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.680 becoming a pro hennis player like his father. But then 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.320 he fell prey to the new wave of a British 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.480 heavy metal heralded by the likes of Diamond Head Iron 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.880 Maiden Venom. His ad was answered by James Headfield, and 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.519 James was this painfully shy kid from the l a 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.280 suburb of Downey, which is also home of the Carpenters. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.280 Interestingly enough, he had had Field hit it off and 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.120 that became the nucleus of Metallica. If Van Halen was 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.360 Eddie and Alex, Metallica had these two, and you know, 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:24.840 when all is said and done, they're the only two 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.600 consistent members now. Another guy that answered Lars ulriks ad 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.280 was Dave Mustain, and Mustain at that time he had 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.280 played in a local band called Panic, but that band 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:39.440 ended fairly early on because both the drummer and the 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:44.400 sound guy were killed after their second show, which is unbelievable, 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.440 like a very I guess metal way for a metal 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.880 band to end. But Dave Mustain was sent adrift by this. 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.720 It's the first, I guess of many heartbreaks for him 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.840 in terms of losing out on rock bands. But he 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.160 shows up to the Metallica audition and Lars and Jays 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.720 are very impressed. By both his gear and his ability 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.680 to shred on guitar, and they invited him to join 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.440 the band and they find that like I think, Dave 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:13.640 initially fit in because him and James had a similar background. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.599 Dave Mustain was raised as a Jehovah's witness and James 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.039 Hetfield was raised as a Christian scientist, so they had 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.200 that very strict religious background that of course drove them 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.320 into metal music. Eventually. They also both had to deal 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.920 with fathers who had walked out on their families early on, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.120 so they I think we're both dealing with abandonment issues. Unfortunately, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.800 Dave Mustain was going to have those abandonment issues compounded 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.920 by his experience in Metallica. But of course we're getting 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.000 ahead of ourselves. In early two, Metallica recorded their first 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.320 original song, Hit the Lights, for the Metal Massacre one compilation, 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:48.680 and they started playing gigs around l A. But they 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.840 really struggled to fit into the rock scene, which at 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.600 that time was basically spandex hair metal strippers partying all 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.919 that sunset striped stuff. And this wasn't Metallica. Like David 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.160 Stain would later say, the other bands wanted the girl 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.840 we wanted to rule the world, and they responded to 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.320 the apathy of the crowds by simply playing louder and 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.799 faster than anyone, which became a hallmark of their sound. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.000 And in the early days of the band, Dave Mustain 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.320 was really seen as the virtuos, so he was sort 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.400 of a guy out front, the focal point. People who 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.760 knew the band at that time, like Scott Anna Amtrax, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.080 he would say he was the frontman, he was the mouthpiece, 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.920 he was the personality. James Hetfield was still pretty reserved 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.839 and developing his own stage persona, and in later years 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.159 Dave Mustain would accuse James being jealous of getting being 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.359 the one who got all the attention during these early 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.039 shows because of his own natural charisma. He would say, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.159 James whole frontman persona he copped from me. In the 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:39.920 beginning of the band, he just sang and I did 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.160 all the guitar work. When he was done singing, he'd 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:43.960 walk away from the microphone and I had to walk 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.240 up to the mic and talk. Now, in case it's 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.440 not already apparent, Dave Mustain is like a pretty abrasive character. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.839 Like I interviewed Da Mustain a long time ago, and 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.360 he was like a pretty intimidating dude. And you know, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.919 I remember asking questions and he would like pause for 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.680 like it felt like thirty seconds before he would answer, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:05.279 you know, I think, just to make me feel like 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.440 an idiot for asking him any questions. Wait, this was two, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.760 so this was some kind of Monster era. Yeah, well 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:12.479 this is like before some kind of Monster. So I 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.880 don't think that. I don't think the movie was out yet. 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.279 We were talking about whatever Mega Death record, which just 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.039 like a guy on the screen was who you Oh 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.839 my god, that's terrifying. Wow. Yeah. So I think even 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.119 like when David Stain was sober, he was a pretty 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.440 difficult guy to deal with. But in Metallica, the issues 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.960 with him really started to arise because of his drinking. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.520 Now that seems a little weird to talk about with 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.599 Metallica because they are one of the most famously like 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:41.240 hard drinking bands of all time, famously nicknamed Alcoholica. Uh 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.279 and you know, if you've seen some kind of Monster, 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.040 you know you know that history with the band. But 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.039 David Stain really reminds me of that friend that I 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.359 think we all had in college at one point where 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.760 they were basically the drunken asshole friend, you know, the 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.039 friend that like, you know, you like them when they're sober, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:06:59.600 but like when you got to the bars that they 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.840 have a few too many drinks, they just turned into 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.880 this very sort of confrontational, aggressive person. And that's what 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.200 Dave Mustain was like. You know, he later said, you know, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.560 I would drink and have fun until someone would refute 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.240 something I had said, and then that was war. Baby. 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.320 I'd be aggressive and confrontational because I was a violent drunk. 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.880 So you know, if you're hanging out your partying, everyone's 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.760 having a good time, but then you have one guy 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.720 who just like wants to get into arguments all the 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.880 time and is being pushy about his opinions. I mean, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.160 it's that can be a pretty like wearies something to 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.320 be around. So there's that issue with Dave Mustain. There's 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.680 also something, uh that ends up being a pretty big deal. 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.160 I guess we'll call it the dog incident uh Metallica, 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:45.400 where at an earlier rehearsal, Dave Mustain brought his dog 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:50.360 to the rehearsal and UH this dog was particularly troublesome 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.360 to the band's basis at the time, whose name was 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.160 Ron mcgoverney total basis name. By the way, I love 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.800 the name Rob mcg Derek mcquickly. It's like this exact 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.520 metal name. But yeah, it just reminds me of like 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.200 a nondescript basis Like you knew Ron mcgoverney was not 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.080 going to be the guy. He was not destined for 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.040 the long haul. Yeah, it's like if your name is 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.040 Ron mcgoverney, you're you're going to be like a blip 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.760 in the industry of metalica. But anyway, Mustain brings his 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.480 dog to the rehearsal and apparently this dog ends up 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:24.640 scratching Ron mcgoverney's car, and James Hedfield is so incensed 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.200 by this that he like kicks the dog, which is 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.720 not cool to kick a dog, and Dad Mustain, you know, 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.120 he is a drunken asshole, but I think in this 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.920 case he was justified and getting upset and he actually 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.520 like just pulled back and like punched James Hedfield in 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.000 the mouth over this, and apparently, like ms Stain was 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.800 like fired over this fight, but then they brought him 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.840 back shortly after. But you know, after you punch someone 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.000 in your band in the mouth, things are not hard 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.080 going to be the same after that. Yeah, so it 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:58.240 seems like at that point Mustain his position in Metalica 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.840 wasn't terribly tenable at this point, and he continued to 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.160 terrorize poor Ron mcgoverney when he was drunk, and there 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.240 was occasion where he poured beer down the neck of 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.959 his bass, which caused the pickups on his base to 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.120 short out, and Ron freaked out and threw everybody out 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.000 of his house. I mean, Ron just he couldn't hang basically, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:15.680 I mean the North should he He He shouldn't have to 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.439 deal with that. So poor mcgifney, the band, and poor mcgoverney. 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.400 He left the band very soon after, and uh as 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.920 a replacement, Metallica set out to recruit Cliff Burton, who 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.480 was in the Bay Area band called Trauma, and he 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.320 could play these mind meltingly good bass solos and they 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.360 almost sounded like guitar solos. They were so so dexterous. 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.400 They were just so so fast and furious, and James 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.120 and Larns has seen him perform and they were just 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.680 absolutely captivated. So they began trying to woo him, and 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.000 he agreed on the condition that the band relocated to 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.800 northern California and That's how Metallica became one of San 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.239 Francisco's favorite sons. It seems pretty amazing that like Metallica 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.000 would pick up and moved to a different part of 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:53.960 the state just because of Cliff Burton. You know, like 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.240 they're already established in Los Angeles, but it's like they 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:57.960 wanted him in the band so bad that they were 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.160 willing to move, you know, several hundred miles north. Can 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.120 you blame him? No? I mean it really speaks to 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:04.800 like how amazing Cliff Burton was. I mean, he was 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.120 like the Jaco Pistorius of like metal bass playing, you know, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.080 just a virtuoso and putting him in the band and 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.680 you know, sending up poor Ron mcgoverney into the dustbin 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.280 of history. I mean it really was putting Metallica on 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.480 their way to becoming like this huge band that's going 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.720 to change the world. But of course there's still this 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.200 guy didn't standing in the band, who is not going 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.600 to be sticking around much longer. No, it really it 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.000 goes down on the trip to New York and Lars 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.760 have been circulating their seventh song demo, No No Life 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.120 to Leather, and one copy landed in the hands of 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.920 a character named was Johnny z And by day he 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.360 ran a New Jersey flea market called Rock and Roll Heaven, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.839 which was this local metal mecca, and he started a 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.200 label called Megaforce Records, and he and he liked the band. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:46.559 He like what he heard, and he offered to pay 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.760 for them to drive out so he could work with them. 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.640 So the Metallica drove a U Hall van supposedly a 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.400 stolen you Hale van uh and drove this across the 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.920 country and they would stop along the way at friends 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.960 houses where Davos Dan would get really wrong and trash 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.520 their friends houses. And this really was sort of the 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.000 last straw for everybody in the band. I mean, this 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.520 guy was just disrespecting their friends homes and property that 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.160 he he had to go. So they get to New 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.120 York and they're staying at I think it was Anthrax's 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.560 practice space up in Queens. I mean they were sleeping 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.200 on like U haul blankets and eating they called him 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.760 blowny on hand sandwiches. They didn't even have white bread, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.400 they just had blowney that they would just eat raw. Uh, 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.840 you know, really really low resource. And they were playing 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.400 a couple of gigs in New York and and Dave 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.720 would get drunk during sound checks and heckle the headliners 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.800 and stuff. He was just a huge liability at this point. 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:39.760 In addition to being unpleasant to be around. You could 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.560 tell he was He was just a liability because of 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.680 his drinking. And this really sets the stage for probably 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.559 one of the most notorious band dismissals in rock history. 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.200 I love that we know the date that he was fired, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.400 April eleven three, a day that will forever live in 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.400 metal infamy. Dave Mustain wakes up. He's sleeping on this 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.720 I think Mattress essentially just laid on the floor of 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.400 their rehearsal space and he wakes up. He just hung 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.600 over his hell and he looks up and he sees 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.880 James Hedefield, Lars Alric and Cliff Burton standing above him, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.920 and they tell him essentially that you're fired. And not 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.400 only are you fired, but like we bought a bus 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.800 ticket for you, like a four day Greyhound trip back 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.640 to California, and it leaves in an hour, so and 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.800 the stain is like, you know, days again, he's you know, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.760 drank hard the night before, so he's really hungover, doesn't 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.320 really know what's going on and I mean it seems 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.440 like this was intentional, like they were ambushing him in 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.560 this weekend state because they didn't want to have a 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.640 fight about it. You know. It seems like they just 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.400 wanted to get this over as quickly as possible. There's 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.880 that story that Mustain tells that like he boarded the 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.640 bus with like a small bag of potato chips and 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.280 that was it. Like that was like one of the 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.480 details that he remembers that he all he had to 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.280 eat was potato chips and shove him on right. Yeah, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.520 he was wasted. He's hungover. They shove him on this 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.680 bus with potato chips and uh, he's gone out of 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.400 the band and like James and large, they spend the 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.320 rest of the day just getting wasted, you know, because 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.880 I think they felt bad about doing this, but they 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.719 knew ultimately that there was no other choice. That Dave 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.320 Mustain was, uh, you know, just a terrible person to 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.839 be around. You know again, like we've all known someone 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.320 like that that maybe for a while it's kind of 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.640 fun to hang out with them. But for all of 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.920 Mustain's talent as a as a guitar player, and also 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.160 you know, the Christmas that he had on stage. I 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.040 think Metallica felt like, Okay, we're approaching a point where 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.320 we're gonna maybe be able to put a record, and 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:32.520 we're not going to be able to get to where 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.920 we're going. Get this guy's in the band. It does 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.360 make me think about that story in Guns and Roses, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.200 like when they fired Steven Adler for like doing too 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.120 many drugs, And it is sort of a weird thing 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.280 again because Metallica was this famously hard drinking band to 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.800 fire a guy for drinking too much, you know, it 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.000 is that situation like we're writing speeding tickets at the 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.079 ND five hundred, you know, like this one guy gets 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.920 punished for what everyone else in the group is doing. 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.280 But again, it does seem like Metallica maybe really had 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.520 no other choice. And now I think was really what 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.200 hurt too from mistake was that, you know, he would 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:05.840 admit in later years like, yeah, I should have been 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.679 kicked out of Metallica, I should have been kicked out 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.640 of Megadeth. That could be quite honest, Like I I 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.880 know that I was not good to be around. I 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.839 think he resented the lack of warning and the lack 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.520 of an option of going to get treatment, which James 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.200 himself did in later years. So I think it was 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.000 really the double standard was like, why did I get 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.920 kicked out of this band? Well, James Hetfield was treated 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.520 with compassion. I mean, I'm sure over the twenty years 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.160 between those two incidents, like we understood how to treat 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.080 addiction and alcohol wasn't a lot better. But still there 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.520 was an element, like you said, was it me? Did 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.440 they just want me out of the band? Was a 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.360 rejection of me and not my my disease, not wanting 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.320 to deal with with my problem. And I think that 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.200 really hurt him because, you know, it was the second 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.280 time in a few years that a band had been 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.200 just ripped away from him in an instant, you know, 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.800 in a space of two hours. He lost the people 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.280 that he considered to be his best friends and the 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.240 band that he allowed to define himself. And now he 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.680 just had four days on a gray hund bus with 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.720 a bag of potato chips to just moll this over 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.600 and you know, seething, receiving and plotting revenge. It seems 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.760 like it's it seems like his dreams of revenge like 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.760 started like almost immediate immediately, Oh totally. I mean, he 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.680 he's bored to tears, and he's like, you know, trying 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.880 to read anything can get his hands on and get 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.880 his mind off of, you know, what his life's become 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.480 in this moment. And he gets his hand on a 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.280 handbill from a Democratic Senator, Alan Cranston, I think is 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.960 his name, and he warned against an escalating nuclear threat. 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.720 And the phrase on this handbill was the arsenal of Megadeth, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.680 can't be ridd And that phrase inspired Mustains scribbled down 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.680 lyrics to a song, and ultimately that was the name 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.720 for his next band. Of course, he took out the 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.640 A in death. That was, like, I guess, the final 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:53.160 poetic stroke of genius for exactly take out the A 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.800 and death and we have a most metal name. So 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.000 while Davostain is on this bus plotting revenge against Metallica, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.680 Metallica already had a replacement lined up for Dave Mustain 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:05.360 and that is, of course Kirk Hammett, who was the 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.240 guitarist in Metallica to this day. They he was a 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.359 member at the time of a Bay Area band called Exodus, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.480 which is also a very famous metal band. They flew 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.680 him out to New York to audition Malcome exactly didn't 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:24.240 take the bus, but exactly apparently he impressed the guys 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.080 of Metallica by just nailing Dave Mustain solos on songs 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.200 like so He Can Destroy. I also have to think 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:30.760 that like a big part of the appeal for Kirk 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.600 Hammet for the people in Metallica was his personality. You know, 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.080 I've interviewed Kirk Hammett, and I mean, I think this 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.480 is apparent to anyone who's ever seen an interview with 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.560 him anywhere, that he's like a very laid back guy, 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.720 and he seems like generally like pretty unassuming and like 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.840 sweet natured and basically just like the opposite of of 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.400 Dave Mimsstain. Like I think, like Kirk Hammett also had 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.840 his own substance abuse problems, but my guests with Hammett 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.640 is that like when he got wasted, he was probably 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.880 just like given lots of hugs and bro hugs and 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.760 that sort of thing. He wasn't gonna be like, you know, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:06.480 starting fights and and punching people in the mouth. So 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.920 it seemed like, you know, musically, Kirk Hammett could deliver 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.159 what Dave Mustain did, but also maybe even more crucially, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.240 he added balance to the band, like the power center 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.960 was always going to be James and Lars, and I 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.119 feel like Dave must would have threatened that, you know, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.280 even if he wasn't like a drunken jerk like, he 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:25.800 would have asserted his own power in the band, whereas 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.359 Kirk Hammont, I think just was more naturally deferential and 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.960 was going to like play his role as the lead 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.479 guitarist in Metallica and not threaten anyone else's role. And 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.200 you know, in later years, Mustan would say not very 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.240 complimentary things about Kirk, and Kirk, to his credit, never 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.200 rose to the baby would alway. He was always very 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.480 civil with mistanding interviews and things like that, which I 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.840 think says a lot about his character. Also, you're right there, 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.360 there's a sweetness to him there, which which I think 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.879 that the band desperately needed between the the Lars James duo. 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.480 Now I'm sure what was you know, even more aggravating 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.480 to Dave must Know he's been fired from this band. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.960 He has to figure out a new path forward in 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.239 his own career. But then you know Metallica, they put 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.040 out killam A in three and there's like a significant 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.960 number of songs that like mus Stain played a role 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.560 in writing. I mean it's like he's not in the 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.159 band anymore, but like he is still like a ghost 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.040 figure really in Metallica. On that first record, right, he's 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.760 credited on four songs, the Four Horsemen, which was on 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.240 the now Lifetill Leather Uh demo under the title Mechanics, 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.000 was Jumping the Fire, Phantom Lord, which Mustaining would later 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.359 rework as Megadeth, This Was My Life on Countdown the 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.080 Extinction and Metal Militia, And then there's also debate about 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.160 how much input that Mustain had for Seek and Destroy 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.359 too Uh. And he's also credited on the band's second album, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.200 Ride the Lightning, including the title track and the instrumental 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.960 Clothes or the Call of Kachulu. Yeah, and by the way, 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.639 these are all great songs. Yeah, I mean these are 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.360 not like, you know, just like whatever album thought types 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.040 of things, especially the Call of Kachulu. That's like one 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.560 of my favorite Meta Alica songs. And you can definitely 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.119 hear the influence of Dave Mustain like on those tracks. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.720 Like to me, like they are the most sort of 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:11.159 like Megadeth like sounding songs in the Metallica discography. So 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.320 must arrives back in California after this four day bust journey, 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.480 and he's broke and he had to get a proper job. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.440 So he had a brief stint as a telemarketer and uh, 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.679 which I mean, can you imagine getting like you know, 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:24.960