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Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music, beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and today we're here to answer the biggest

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Speaker 1: question in heavy metal. You know, really, it's one of

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Speaker 1: life's great questions. It's up there with why are we here?

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Speaker 1: And are we alone in the universe. Today we're going

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Speaker 1: to tackle the age old question Metallica or Megadeth. Yes,

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Speaker 1: although I'm sure there's somebody out there who's mat that

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Speaker 1: we're not also talking about Slayer and Anthrax, you know,

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Speaker 1: all due respect to the Big Four, but we're focusing

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Speaker 1: on Metallica and Megadeth because these bands are linked by

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Speaker 1: one Dave mus Stain, who used to be a Metallica

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Speaker 1: and then was kicked out before they put out their

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Speaker 1: first record, Kill Them All in the eighty three. After

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Speaker 1: that he formed Megadeth with the goal of the throning

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Speaker 1: Metallica from the top of the thrash metal heap. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He's like Robert de Niro in Cape Fear and Metallica

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Speaker 1: is the Nickna character. That's amazing. Yes, I mean you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna come as much of a surprise that

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Speaker 1: I'm not the world's biggest metal head. But the feud

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Speaker 1: between Dave Mustain and his ex Metallica bandmates fascinates me

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Speaker 1: to no end. It's just one of the most intense

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Speaker 1: band on band rivalries ever because it's so damn personal.

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Speaker 1: Mustain was fired from the group literally days before they

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Speaker 1: went into the studio to record their first album, which

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Speaker 1: sent him on the road to being the biggest metal

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Speaker 1: band ever. They put him on a cross country greyhound

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Speaker 1: Penny listens scrounging for potato chips for four days with

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Speaker 1: nothing to do but plot is revenge, that's cold, and

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Speaker 1: he forms Mega Death in an attempt to out metal Metallica.

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Speaker 1: And just imagine being defined by your worst moment. That's

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Speaker 1: pretty much what happened to Dave Mustain. His entire life

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Speaker 1: was shaped by the single incident. And Mustain, to me,

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Speaker 1: is such a compelling, tragic comic hero. He's like Gatsby.

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Speaker 1: He just can't let go of the past, and even

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Speaker 1: when he tries, he can't escape it. It's Metallica. They're

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Speaker 1: that ubiquitous, They're that assive. No matter how big Megadeth

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Speaker 1: get they'll never be Metallica, And yet I know there

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Speaker 1: are true blue metal fans out there who prefer Megadeth

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Speaker 1: to Metallica for the very reason that Megadeth never really

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Speaker 1: went pop. You know, they've stayed true to the metal

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Speaker 1: path for about thirty five years while Metallica pursued MTV

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Speaker 1: fame and power ballot hits. Dave Mustain isn't as famous

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Speaker 1: as Lars al Rick, but de Mustain also never became

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Speaker 1: the focus of scorn because he spoke out against napster,

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Speaker 1: you know. So you know there are cases for success,

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Speaker 1: whether it's commercial or artistic, to be made on both

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Speaker 1: sides of this equation. So without further ado, let's get

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Speaker 1: into this mess. Like so many of life and pleasantries,

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Speaker 1: this whole thing is Laras al Ric's fault. It was

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Speaker 1: he who put the classified ad in a local newspaper

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Speaker 1: which read drummer looking for another metal musicians the jam

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Speaker 1: with Tigers of Pentang, Diamond Head and Iron Maiden. Those

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Speaker 1: were his influences, it was, and the teenage Lars had

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Speaker 1: recently immigrated to l A from Denmark with dreams of

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Speaker 1: becoming a pro hennis player like his father. But then

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Speaker 1: he fell prey to the new wave of a British

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Speaker 1: heavy metal heralded by the likes of Diamond Head Iron

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Speaker 1: Maiden Venom. His ad was answered by James Headfield, and

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Speaker 1: James was this painfully shy kid from the l a

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Speaker 1: suburb of Downey, which is also home of the Carpenters.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, he had had Field hit it off and

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Speaker 1: that became the nucleus of Metallica. If Van Halen was

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Speaker 1: Eddie and Alex, Metallica had these two, and you know,

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Speaker 1: when all is said and done, they're the only two

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Speaker 1: consistent members now. Another guy that answered Lars ulriks ad

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Speaker 1: was Dave Mustain, and Mustain at that time he had

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Speaker 1: played in a local band called Panic, but that band

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Speaker 1: ended fairly early on because both the drummer and the

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Speaker 1: sound guy were killed after their second show, which is unbelievable,

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Speaker 1: like a very I guess metal way for a metal

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Speaker 1: band to end. But Dave Mustain was sent adrift by this.

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Speaker 1: It's the first, I guess of many heartbreaks for him

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Speaker 1: in terms of losing out on rock bands. But he

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Speaker 1: shows up to the Metallica audition and Lars and Jays

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Speaker 1: are very impressed. By both his gear and his ability

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Speaker 1: to shred on guitar, and they invited him to join

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Speaker 1: the band and they find that like I think, Dave

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Speaker 1: initially fit in because him and James had a similar background.

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Speaker 1: Dave Mustain was raised as a Jehovah's witness and James

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Speaker 1: Hetfield was raised as a Christian scientist, so they had

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Speaker 1: that very strict religious background that of course drove them

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Speaker 1: into metal music. Eventually. They also both had to deal

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Speaker 1: with fathers who had walked out on their families early on,

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Speaker 1: so they I think we're both dealing with abandonment issues. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Dave Mustain was going to have those abandonment issues compounded

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Speaker 1: by his experience in Metallica. But of course we're getting

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Speaker 1: ahead of ourselves. In early two, Metallica recorded their first

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Speaker 1: original song, Hit the Lights, for the Metal Massacre one compilation,

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Speaker 1: and they started playing gigs around l A. But they

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Speaker 1: really struggled to fit into the rock scene, which at

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Speaker 1: that time was basically spandex hair metal strippers partying all

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Speaker 1: that sunset striped stuff. And this wasn't Metallica. Like David

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Speaker 1: Stain would later say, the other bands wanted the girl

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Speaker 1: we wanted to rule the world, and they responded to

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Speaker 1: the apathy of the crowds by simply playing louder and

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Speaker 1: faster than anyone, which became a hallmark of their sound.

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Speaker 1: And in the early days of the band, Dave Mustain

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Speaker 1: was really seen as the virtuos, so he was sort

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Speaker 1: of a guy out front, the focal point. People who

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Speaker 1: knew the band at that time, like Scott Anna Amtrax,

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Speaker 1: he would say he was the frontman, he was the mouthpiece,

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Speaker 1: he was the personality. James Hetfield was still pretty reserved

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Speaker 1: and developing his own stage persona, and in later years

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Speaker 1: Dave Mustain would accuse James being jealous of getting being

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Speaker 1: the one who got all the attention during these early

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Speaker 1: shows because of his own natural charisma. He would say,

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Speaker 1: James whole frontman persona he copped from me. In the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the band, he just sang and I did

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Speaker 1: all the guitar work. When he was done singing, he'd

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Speaker 1: walk away from the microphone and I had to walk

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Speaker 1: up to the mic and talk. Now, in case it's

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Speaker 1: not already apparent, Dave Mustain is like a pretty abrasive character.

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Speaker 1: Like I interviewed Da Mustain a long time ago, and

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Speaker 1: he was like a pretty intimidating dude. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I remember asking questions and he would like pause for

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Speaker 1: like it felt like thirty seconds before he would answer,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think, just to make me feel like

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Speaker 1: an idiot for asking him any questions. Wait, this was two,

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Speaker 1: so this was some kind of Monster era. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: this is like before some kind of Monster. So I

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Speaker 1: don't think that. I don't think the movie was out yet.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about whatever Mega Death record, which just

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Speaker 1: like a guy on the screen was who you Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, that's terrifying. Wow. Yeah. So I think even

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Speaker 1: like when David Stain was sober, he was a pretty

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Speaker 1: difficult guy to deal with. But in Metallica, the issues

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Speaker 1: with him really started to arise because of his drinking.

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Speaker 1: Now that seems a little weird to talk about with

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Speaker 1: Metallica because they are one of the most famously like

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Speaker 1: hard drinking bands of all time, famously nicknamed Alcoholica. Uh

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you've seen some kind of Monster,

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Speaker 1: you know you know that history with the band. But

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Speaker 1: David Stain really reminds me of that friend that I

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Speaker 1: think we all had in college at one point where

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Speaker 1: they were basically the drunken asshole friend, you know, the

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Speaker 1: friend that like, you know, you like them when they're sober,

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Speaker 1: but like when you got to the bars that they

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Speaker 1: have a few too many drinks, they just turned into

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Speaker 1: this very sort of confrontational, aggressive person. And that's what

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Speaker 1: Dave Mustain was like. You know, he later said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I would drink and have fun until someone would refute

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Speaker 1: something I had said, and then that was war. Baby.

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Speaker 1: I'd be aggressive and confrontational because I was a violent drunk.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if you're hanging out your partying, everyone's

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Speaker 1: having a good time, but then you have one guy

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Speaker 1: who just like wants to get into arguments all the

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Speaker 1: time and is being pushy about his opinions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's that can be a pretty like wearies something to

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Speaker 1: be around. So there's that issue with Dave Mustain. There's

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Speaker 1: also something, uh that ends up being a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll call it the dog incident uh Metallica,

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Speaker 1: where at an earlier rehearsal, Dave Mustain brought his dog

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Speaker 1: to the rehearsal and UH this dog was particularly troublesome

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Speaker 1: to the band's basis at the time, whose name was

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Speaker 1: Ron mcgoverney total basis name. By the way, I love

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Speaker 1: the name Rob mcg Derek mcquickly. It's like this exact

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Speaker 1: metal name. But yeah, it just reminds me of like

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Speaker 1: a nondescript basis Like you knew Ron mcgoverney was not

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Speaker 1: going to be the guy. He was not destined for

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Speaker 1: the long haul. Yeah, it's like if your name is

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Speaker 1: Ron mcgoverney, you're you're going to be like a blip

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Speaker 1: in the industry of metalica. But anyway, Mustain brings his

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Speaker 1: dog to the rehearsal and apparently this dog ends up

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Speaker 1: scratching Ron mcgoverney's car, and James Hedfield is so incensed

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Speaker 1: by this that he like kicks the dog, which is

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Speaker 1: not cool to kick a dog, and Dad Mustain, you know,

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Speaker 1: he is a drunken asshole, but I think in this

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Speaker 1: case he was justified and getting upset and he actually

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Speaker 1: like just pulled back and like punched James Hedfield in

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Speaker 1: the mouth over this, and apparently, like ms Stain was

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Speaker 1: like fired over this fight, but then they brought him

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Speaker 1: back shortly after. But you know, after you punch someone

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Speaker 1: in your band in the mouth, things are not hard

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Speaker 1: going to be the same after that. Yeah, so it

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Speaker 1: seems like at that point Mustain his position in Metalica

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Speaker 1: wasn't terribly tenable at this point, and he continued to

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Speaker 1: terrorize poor Ron mcgoverney when he was drunk, and there

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Speaker 1: was occasion where he poured beer down the neck of

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Speaker 1: his bass, which caused the pickups on his base to

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Speaker 1: short out, and Ron freaked out and threw everybody out

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Speaker 1: of his house. I mean, Ron just he couldn't hang basically,

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Speaker 1: I mean the North should he He He shouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: deal with that. So poor mcgifney, the band, and poor mcgoverney.

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Speaker 1: He left the band very soon after, and uh as

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Speaker 1: a replacement, Metallica set out to recruit Cliff Burton, who

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Speaker 1: was in the Bay Area band called Trauma, and he

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Speaker 1: could play these mind meltingly good bass solos and they

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Speaker 1: almost sounded like guitar solos. They were so so dexterous.

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Speaker 1: They were just so so fast and furious, and James

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Speaker 1: and Larns has seen him perform and they were just

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Speaker 1: absolutely captivated. So they began trying to woo him, and

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Speaker 1: he agreed on the condition that the band relocated to

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Speaker 1: northern California and That's how Metallica became one of San

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Speaker 1: Francisco's favorite sons. It seems pretty amazing that like Metallica

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Speaker 1: would pick up and moved to a different part of

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Speaker 1: the state just because of Cliff Burton. You know, like

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Speaker 1: they're already established in Los Angeles, but it's like they

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Speaker 1: wanted him in the band so bad that they were

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Speaker 1: willing to move, you know, several hundred miles north. Can

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Speaker 1: you blame him? No? I mean it really speaks to

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Speaker 1: like how amazing Cliff Burton was. I mean, he was

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Speaker 1: like the Jaco Pistorius of like metal bass playing, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a virtuoso and putting him in the band and

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Speaker 1: you know, sending up poor Ron mcgoverney into the dustbin

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Speaker 1: of history. I mean it really was putting Metallica on

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Speaker 1: their way to becoming like this huge band that's going

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Speaker 1: to change the world. But of course there's still this

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Speaker 1: guy didn't standing in the band, who is not going

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Speaker 1: to be sticking around much longer. No, it really it

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Speaker 1: goes down on the trip to New York and Lars

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Speaker 1: have been circulating their seventh song demo, No No Life

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Speaker 1: to Leather, and one copy landed in the hands of

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Speaker 1: a character named was Johnny z And by day he

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Speaker 1: ran a New Jersey flea market called Rock and Roll Heaven,

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Speaker 1: which was this local metal mecca, and he started a

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Speaker 1: label called Megaforce Records, and he and he liked the band.

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Speaker 1: He like what he heard, and he offered to pay

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Speaker 1: for them to drive out so he could work with them.

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Speaker 1: So the Metallica drove a U Hall van supposedly a

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Speaker 1: stolen you Hale van uh and drove this across the

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Speaker 1: country and they would stop along the way at friends

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Speaker 1: houses where Davos Dan would get really wrong and trash

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Speaker 1: their friends houses. And this really was sort of the

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Speaker 1: last straw for everybody in the band. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: guy was just disrespecting their friends homes and property that

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Speaker 1: he he had to go. So they get to New

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Speaker 1: York and they're staying at I think it was Anthrax's

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Speaker 1: practice space up in Queens. I mean they were sleeping

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Speaker 1: on like U haul blankets and eating they called him

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Speaker 1: blowny on hand sandwiches. They didn't even have white bread,

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Speaker 1: they just had blowney that they would just eat raw. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, really really low resource. And they were playing

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Speaker 1: a couple of gigs in New York and and Dave

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Speaker 1: would get drunk during sound checks and heckle the headliners

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Speaker 1: and stuff. He was just a huge liability at this point.

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Speaker 1: In addition to being unpleasant to be around. You could

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Speaker 1: tell he was He was just a liability because of

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Speaker 1: his drinking. And this really sets the stage for probably

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Speaker 1: one of the most notorious band dismissals in rock history.

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Speaker 1: I love that we know the date that he was fired,

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Speaker 1: April eleven three, a day that will forever live in

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Speaker 1: metal infamy. Dave Mustain wakes up. He's sleeping on this

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Speaker 1: I think Mattress essentially just laid on the floor of

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Speaker 1: their rehearsal space and he wakes up. He just hung

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Speaker 1: over his hell and he looks up and he sees

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Speaker 1: James Hedefield, Lars Alric and Cliff Burton standing above him,

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Speaker 1: and they tell him essentially that you're fired. And not

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Speaker 1: only are you fired, but like we bought a bus

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Speaker 1: ticket for you, like a four day Greyhound trip back

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Speaker 1: to California, and it leaves in an hour, so and

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Speaker 1: the stain is like, you know, days again, he's you know,

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Speaker 1: drank hard the night before, so he's really hungover, doesn't

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Speaker 1: really know what's going on and I mean it seems

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Speaker 1: like this was intentional, like they were ambushing him in

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Speaker 1: this weekend state because they didn't want to have a

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Speaker 1: fight about it. You know. It seems like they just

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Speaker 1: wanted to get this over as quickly as possible. There's

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Speaker 1: that story that Mustain tells that like he boarded the

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Speaker 1: bus with like a small bag of potato chips and

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Speaker 1: that was it. Like that was like one of the

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Speaker 1: details that he remembers that he all he had to

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Speaker 1: eat was potato chips and shove him on right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was wasted. He's hungover. They shove him on this

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Speaker 1: bus with potato chips and uh, he's gone out of

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Speaker 1: the band and like James and large, they spend the

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Speaker 1: rest of the day just getting wasted, you know, because

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Speaker 1: I think they felt bad about doing this, but they

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Speaker 1: knew ultimately that there was no other choice. That Dave

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Speaker 1: Mustain was, uh, you know, just a terrible person to

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Speaker 1: be around. You know again, like we've all known someone

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Speaker 1: like that that maybe for a while it's kind of

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Speaker 1: fun to hang out with them. But for all of

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Speaker 1: Mustain's talent as a as a guitar player, and also

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Speaker 1: you know, the Christmas that he had on stage. I

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Speaker 1: think Metallica felt like, Okay, we're approaching a point where

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Speaker 1: we're gonna maybe be able to put a record, and

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Speaker 1: we're not going to be able to get to where

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Speaker 1: we're going. Get this guy's in the band. It does

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Speaker 1: make me think about that story in Guns and Roses,

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Speaker 1: like when they fired Steven Adler for like doing too

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Speaker 1: many drugs, And it is sort of a weird thing

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Speaker 1: again because Metallica was this famously hard drinking band to

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Speaker 1: fire a guy for drinking too much, you know, it

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Speaker 1: is that situation like we're writing speeding tickets at the

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Speaker 1: ND five hundred, you know, like this one guy gets

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Speaker 1: punished for what everyone else in the group is doing.

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Speaker 1: But again, it does seem like Metallica maybe really had

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Speaker 1: no other choice. And now I think was really what

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Speaker 1: hurt too from mistake was that, you know, he would

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Speaker 1: admit in later years like, yeah, I should have been

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Speaker 1: kicked out of Metallica, I should have been kicked out

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Speaker 1: of Megadeth. That could be quite honest, Like I I

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Speaker 1: know that I was not good to be around. I

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Speaker 1: think he resented the lack of warning and the lack

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Speaker 1: of an option of going to get treatment, which James

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Speaker 1: himself did in later years. So I think it was

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Speaker 1: really the double standard was like, why did I get

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Speaker 1: kicked out of this band? Well, James Hetfield was treated

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Speaker 1: with compassion. I mean, I'm sure over the twenty years

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Speaker 1: between those two incidents, like we understood how to treat

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Speaker 1: addiction and alcohol wasn't a lot better. But still there

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Speaker 1: was an element, like you said, was it me? Did

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Speaker 1: they just want me out of the band? Was a

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Speaker 1: rejection of me and not my my disease, not wanting

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Speaker 1: to deal with with my problem. And I think that

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Speaker 1: really hurt him because, you know, it was the second

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Speaker 1: time in a few years that a band had been

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Speaker 1: just ripped away from him in an instant, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a space of two hours. He lost the people

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Speaker 1: that he considered to be his best friends and the

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Speaker 1: band that he allowed to define himself. And now he

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Speaker 1: just had four days on a gray hund bus with

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Speaker 1: a bag of potato chips to just moll this over

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Speaker 1: and you know, seething, receiving and plotting revenge. It seems

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Speaker 1: like it's it seems like his dreams of revenge like

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Speaker 1: started like almost immediate immediately, Oh totally. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: he's bored to tears, and he's like, you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to read anything can get his hands on and get

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Speaker 1: his mind off of, you know, what his life's become

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Speaker 1: in this moment. And he gets his hand on a

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Speaker 1: handbill from a Democratic Senator, Alan Cranston, I think is

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Speaker 1: his name, and he warned against an escalating nuclear threat.

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Speaker 1: And the phrase on this handbill was the arsenal of Megadeth,

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Speaker 1: can't be ridd And that phrase inspired Mustains scribbled down

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Speaker 1: lyrics to a song, and ultimately that was the name

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Speaker 1: for his next band. Of course, he took out the

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Speaker 1: A in death. That was, like, I guess, the final

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Speaker 1: poetic stroke of genius for exactly take out the A

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Speaker 1: and death and we have a most metal name. So

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Speaker 1: while Davostain is on this bus plotting revenge against Metallica,

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Speaker 1: Metallica already had a replacement lined up for Dave Mustain

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Speaker 1: and that is, of course Kirk Hammett, who was the

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Speaker 1: guitarist in Metallica to this day. They he was a

336
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Speaker 1: member at the time of a Bay Area band called Exodus,

337
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Speaker 1: which is also a very famous metal band. They flew

338
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Speaker 1: him out to New York to audition Malcome exactly didn't

339
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Speaker 1: take the bus, but exactly apparently he impressed the guys

340
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Speaker 1: of Metallica by just nailing Dave Mustain solos on songs

341
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Speaker 1: like so He Can Destroy. I also have to think

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Speaker 1: that like a big part of the appeal for Kirk

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Speaker 1: Hammet for the people in Metallica was his personality. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed Kirk Hammett, and I mean, I think this

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Speaker 1: is apparent to anyone who's ever seen an interview with

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Speaker 1: him anywhere, that he's like a very laid back guy,

347
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Speaker 1: and he seems like generally like pretty unassuming and like

348
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Speaker 1: sweet natured and basically just like the opposite of of

349
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Speaker 1: Dave Mimsstain. Like I think, like Kirk Hammett also had

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Speaker 1: his own substance abuse problems, but my guests with Hammett

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Speaker 1: is that like when he got wasted, he was probably

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Speaker 1: just like given lots of hugs and bro hugs and

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. He wasn't gonna be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: starting fights and and punching people in the mouth. So

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Speaker 1: it seemed like, you know, musically, Kirk Hammett could deliver

356
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Speaker 1: what Dave Mustain did, but also maybe even more crucially,

357
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Speaker 1: he added balance to the band, like the power center

358
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Speaker 1: was always going to be James and Lars, and I

359
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Speaker 1: feel like Dave must would have threatened that, you know,

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Speaker 1: even if he wasn't like a drunken jerk like, he

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Speaker 1: would have asserted his own power in the band, whereas

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Speaker 1: Kirk Hammont, I think just was more naturally deferential and

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Speaker 1: was going to like play his role as the lead

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Speaker 1: guitarist in Metallica and not threaten anyone else's role. And

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Speaker 1: you know, in later years, Mustan would say not very

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Speaker 1: complimentary things about Kirk, and Kirk, to his credit, never

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Speaker 1: rose to the baby would alway. He was always very

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Speaker 1: civil with mistanding interviews and things like that, which I

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Speaker 1: think says a lot about his character. Also, you're right there,

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Speaker 1: there's a sweetness to him there, which which I think

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Speaker 1: that the band desperately needed between the the Lars James duo.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm sure what was you know, even more aggravating

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Speaker 1: to Dave must Know he's been fired from this band.

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Speaker 1: He has to figure out a new path forward in

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Speaker 1: his own career. But then you know Metallica, they put

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Speaker 1: out killam A in three and there's like a significant

377
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Speaker 1: number of songs that like mus Stain played a role

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Speaker 1: in writing. I mean it's like he's not in the

379
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Speaker 1: band anymore, but like he is still like a ghost

380
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: figure really in Metallica. On that first record, right, he's

381
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Speaker 1: credited on four songs, the Four Horsemen, which was on

382
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Speaker 1: the now Lifetill Leather Uh demo under the title Mechanics,

383
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 1: was Jumping the Fire, Phantom Lord, which Mustaining would later

384
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Speaker 1: rework as Megadeth, This Was My Life on Countdown the

385
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Speaker 1: Extinction and Metal Militia, And then there's also debate about

386
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Speaker 1: how much input that Mustain had for Seek and Destroy

387
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 1: too Uh. And he's also credited on the band's second album,

388
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Speaker 1: Ride the Lightning, including the title track and the instrumental

389
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Speaker 1: Clothes or the Call of Kachulu. Yeah, and by the way,

390
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 1: these are all great songs. Yeah, I mean these are

391
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Speaker 1: not like, you know, just like whatever album thought types

392
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: of things, especially the Call of Kachulu. That's like one

393
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Speaker 1: of my favorite Meta Alica songs. And you can definitely

394
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 1: hear the influence of Dave Mustain like on those tracks.

395
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: Like to me, like they are the most sort of

396
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,159
Speaker 1: like Megadeth like sounding songs in the Metallica discography. So

397
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: must arrives back in California after this four day bust journey,

398
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: and he's broke and he had to get a proper job.

399
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 1: So he had a brief stint as a telemarketer and uh,

400
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Speaker 1: which I mean, can you imagine getting like you know,

401
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 1: Dave mus day in calling trying to sell you, like

402
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 1: a credit card or like low interest loan or encyclopedias

403
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: or something. Hello me, it's me again selling credit cards.

404
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,879
Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty amazing. I wish somebody recorded that.

405
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 1: But his bitterness over this dismissal just festered, and he

406
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: put together a new band specifically to compete with Metallica.

407
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 1: You would say you wanted to outmetal Metallica. Uh. In

408
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,159
Speaker 1: later years he would say, I measured my success by

409
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,679
Speaker 1: whether or not I ate that day. My vision was

410
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 1: to destroy Metallica and stop living in a van. And

411
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Speaker 1: he spent much of recruiting the perfect members for his mission.

412
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: You know, he been burned by Metallica, So he approached

413
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: Megadeth as basically like a metal auto crap. Like he

414
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 1: would say, democracy doesn't work in a band. I have

415
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 1: to have my own band to make music exactly the

416
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 1: way I want to hear it with no compromises that

417
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 1: anyone else's ego whatsoever. So he has this vision, but

418
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: unfortunately his drive to out metal metallica was also matched

419
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: by his addiction. He gets a recording deal with Combat Records,

420
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 1: and he reportedly spent half of his really poultry studio

421
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: advance on alcohol and drugs rather than studio time. And

422
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: this is a big reason why Megadeth nine five debut,

423
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: Killing is my business and business is good wasn't as

424
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Speaker 1: strong as it could have been. I mean, he would

425
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 1: later say, simply put we ran out of money. But

426
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: it's sort of a lack of production quality on the album.

427
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: It's it's almost low five. There's sort of a weak

428
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: sound there. Now when you listen to the next Megadeth record,

429
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: which is Peace Cells, but who's buying? I mean, I

430
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: think you can hear like a significant upgrade in like

431
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: songwriting and the production. I mean, that's where Megadeth, I think,

432
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: is starting to sound like a real deal, like big

433
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: time metal band, although things were still like very chaotic

434
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. The band's bass player Dave Ellison has

435
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: this great quote where he says that p Cells was

436
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: recorded on a diet of heroin burghers and cigarettes. Uh

437
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: still made made manassas to exactly. It's a very popular

438
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: diet here on the Rivals podcast, I think, and you know,

439
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 1: I think that shows a contrast with Metallica. I mean,

440
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 1: Metallica I think always had a lot of craziness going

441
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes, but they always strike me as

442
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 1: like like from the beginning being a very professional career

443
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: as band, Like they knew that they wanted to be

444
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: huge and they would deliver on the biggest stages, and

445
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 1: that's how they were able to build their career as

446
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: the eighties progressed, whereas Megadet I think because of Dave Mustain,

447
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,959
Speaker 1: maybe not quite as reliable in that regard, and they

448
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: were a little bit I think more hamstrung by you know,

449
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: some of the craziness that was going on. Of course,

450
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 1: they were also hamstrung by again Dave Mists, just like

451
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: psychopathic hatred of Metallica. I mean, when it's your goal

452
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: to destroy another band, you know, like that's not maybe

453
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: the best goal to have, Like you're not really focusing

454
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: on what you're doing, You're always thinking about somebody else,

455
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: and you're just setting yourself up ultimately, Uh, for disappointment,

456
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: especially when you are comparing yourself to what's going to

457
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 1: become the most you know, commercially successful metal band ever

458
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, kind of going back to that

459
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 1: professionalism uh thing I was talking about earlier. You know,

460
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: one thing I think that really hurt Megadeth is that

461
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: Dave Mustain was not a great interview And I mean

462
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: he was great in the sense that you'd have like

463
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 1: wonderful quotes, but he wasn't very cooperative with reporters. He

464
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: could be very standoffish. He wasn't somebody that like I

465
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: think people like to talk to, uh, which you know,

466
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: like when you're building your career and you're trying to

467
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: make connections, it is important to kiss the ring to

468
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: a certain degree if you want people to help you out.

469
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: And there was gonna be no ring kissing at all

470
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: with Dave Mustain. And I'm sure one thing that drove

471
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: him mad is that, like people wouldn't stop asking him

472
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: about Metallica, and this was not something that he ever

473
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: really got over. Like not only did he not get

474
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: over it, but it seemed like the trauma of being

475
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: kicked out of that band was always very close to

476
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: the surface, Like this this one time, like he was

477
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: asked about Metallica, and this is a great quote. He says,

478
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: it's like getting into a car crash. Every time you

479
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: close your eyes, you relived the car crash, And every

480
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: time someone brings up the name of that band, it's

481
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: like we'reliving a car crash, but getting over it. I

482
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: have to do this on my own terms. I can't

483
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: go up to someone who's been raped and say get

484
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: over it. How insensitive is that? She's pretty insensitive, it

485
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: says that. I would say it's as insensitive as lining

486
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: getting kicked out of the band and being raped. That's

487
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: a pretty insensitive thing too. But yeah, like this was

488
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: clearly like just all consuming for him, even as Megaeth

489
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: was starting to take off. I mean, I'm having a

490
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: hard time. I'm thinking of any other band that was

491
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: ever formed for the express purpose of crushing another band?

492
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: Is this unique in rocket history? I think it may be. Well,

493
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think it's unique because of the

494
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: motivation and also because mss Stain was like very successful, Like,

495
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, it'd be like if Pete Best you know,

496
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: had formed another band after being kicked out of the

497
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: Beatles that like weren't as big as the Beatles, but

498
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: like maybe we're as big as the Kinks or the

499
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: who you know, Like that doesn't really happen very often,

500
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: so that's unique. But then you know the fact that

501
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: ms Stain was so upfront about this. You know, I'm

502
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: sure that there's been people who've been fired out of

503
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: bands who felt motivated by like wanting to do better

504
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: than the people that fired them, but they don't usually

505
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: talk about it, you know, they them. Yeah, like mss Stain,

506
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was sick of being asked about Matauko

507
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: all the time, but he also welcomed those questions by

508
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: the way he acted. You know, it's like, you know,

509
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: if you're this crazy person who's obsessed with this one thing,

510
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: people are going to ask you about that one thing

511
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: every time they interview you. I mean, it's just the

512
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: natural thing to talk about. And you know, his relationship

513
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: even when he was getting Megadeth off the ground in

514
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 1: the mid eighties, but Metallica, I mean there was a

515
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: certain still emotional closeness there. Like when Cliff Burton died

516
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: in the bus crash in six but Dame reportedly cried

517
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: for days. It was just absolutely shattered and laws would

518
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: say that around the same time, he and Dave were

519
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: still close, and he said really nice things about Peace Cells.

520
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: He said that the album blew me away and became

521
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: my favorite record for a long time, and that whenever

522
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: Megadeth came through San Francisco, he and Lars would find

523
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: each other and go drink and do a ton of

524
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: drugs and sit around, and so you know, he would

525
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 1: say that. Apparently Metallica even played Dave in advanced pressing

526
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: of Justice for All and invited into their shows. So

527
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: it's strange to believe. I mean, maybe it was a

528
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: case of like keep your friends close for your enemies closer.

529
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, or maybe it was still him desperately

530
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: trying to maybe ingratiate his way back into the band.

531
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: Who knows, but there was a case of in I

532
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: think when Megadeth played the Monsters of Rock Festival, uh,

533
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: Lars actually came out and helped him with an encore

534
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: did a cover of Anarchy in the k together. So yeah,

535
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: there was a closest there, despite all of Mustain's rage

536
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: at that period. We're gonna take a quick break to

537
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: get a word from our sponsor before we get to

538
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: more rivals. Yeah, I mean I think Lars would later

539
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: say that, like he blamed the press essentially for playing

540
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: this up and driving a wedge between the two bands.

541
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: But the thing that he would leave out is that

542
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: the press was running with quotes that Dave Mustain would

543
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 1: give them. You know. It's like like he I don't

544
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: like question that he was actually close with Lars Ulric

545
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: at this time, but it just seems like publicly he

546
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: would go out of his way often to say bad

547
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: things about Metallica, and that you know, the reverse wasn't true,

548
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: Like Metallica really did not say anything bad about Megadeth

549
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: of course, because they were the bigger band, they weren't

550
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: as threatened by Mega Death. It really does seem like

551
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: it's misstained struggling to get over this, even as like

552
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: by like the early nineties, Megaeth it was like a

553
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: pretty big MTV band themselves, like that record count Down

554
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: to Extinction, you know, spawned like several like like pretty

555
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: famous videos. Uh. And they again, they weren't as big

556
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: as Metallica, but they were still a pretty big band,

557
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: and they actually ended up finally touring together a bit

558
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: intree when Metallica asked Megadeth to open for them. I mean,

559
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: wasn't that the deal? I mean I'm sure like in

560
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: Msstain's mind, they were like yeah, exactly, but they were

561
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: definitely opening for Metallica, right, I mean still they were

562
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: still Metallica. Yeah. When they finally played together, I mean,

563
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: this was a huge moment for Dave. And he goes

564
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: out onto the stage and he gives this this great speech.

565
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: He said, it's a very historical day. Ten years of

566
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: bullshit is over between Megadeth and Metallica. Lots of cheers.

567
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: There are lots of assholes who said this would never

568
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: ever happen, but I guess we proved them all wrong.

569
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: His big war is over speech. Who are those assholes? David? Like,

570
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,479
Speaker 1: I feel like I think Dave Mustain was like at

571
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: the lead of those assholes saying they would never work.

572
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: There's another story like from this tour that I think

573
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: just speaks to like, you know how awkward this could be,

574
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: Like you know, even if they were friends, that there

575
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: was still like tension that was always going to exist

576
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: between the Stain and the Metallica guys. Like apparently there

577
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: was a show like where Mustain showed up backstage and

578
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: Metallica's dressing room and when he walked in, James Headfield

579
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: like cut up some sugar like it was cocaine, and

580
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: like kind of made a show of like doing it.

581
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: I think it was supposed to be a joke essentially,

582
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: but like mus Stain had like recently overdosed. Yeah, I

583
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: don't think like Headfield was like deliberately making fun of

584
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: the overdose, unless I'm being too kind of Headfield there.

585
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: I think it was just like a drug joke, but

586
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: like mus Stain took it the wrong way in spite

587
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: of that speech that he gave on stage, I mean

588
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: that tour. I mean I think it was like hard

589
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: on his ego. It was rough. I mean he even

590
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: watch from the wings keeping a really close eye on

591
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: Kirk Hammond and he wasn't impressed. I mean he would say,

592
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, I think it was behind the music. He said,

593
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: I thought, God, Kirk's horrible, and I also thought this

594
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: is supposed to be me, which is just freaky. Years.

595
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: Like I was saying earlier, Dave went out of his

596
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: way to slag off Kirk. He has really never been

597
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: anything other than civil to to Dave in the press,

598
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: and that's probably the most famous quote Dave Game was

599
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: in September two thousand and four. He said, I don't

600
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: really care about Kirk just a lie. He stole my job,

601
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: but at least they got to bang his girlfriend before

602
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: he took my job. How do I taste Kirk? Yeah,

603
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I mean Kirkham. It doesn't have

604
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: to say anything about Dave Mistain because he won. You know,

605
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: when you're the person who's in the biggest middle band

606
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: of all time, you know you can just let people

607
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: take shots at you while you're like counting your like

608
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars. But again, it goes back

609
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: to what I was saying earlier, Like Lars Lark would

610
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: always talk about how he felt that the press was

611
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: trying to split Metallica and Megadeth and create drama where

612
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't really drama. Like there's this one quote where

613
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: Lars Lark says, you know, there's almost like two relationships

614
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: going here. There was Large and Dave hanging out kind

615
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: of doing their thing on the side, which at times

616
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: was a little odd. You'd go, wait a minute, I'm

617
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: supposed to not like this guy, because that's what's in

618
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: this week's Kerrang, you know, but if you read that

619
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: week's Kerrang, it would probably be Dave Mustain and saying

620
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: something mean about Metallica, and that would continue on and

621
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: on and on, even as you know they go through

622
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: these periods where they're friendly again. I feel like it

623
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: really culminates with the movie Some kind of Monster. Like,

624
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: to me, like the story of that movie is like

625
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: such a great encapsulation of how like, even when you

626
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: know Mustain could make a show of reconciling with the

627
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: guys in Metallica, it would always end up turning in

628
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: a negative direction, you know, in a very suprise to

629
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: come about how he was wronged by Metallica, even though

630
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: it was you know, this was supposed to be a

631
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: move that reconciled the Metallica doing this documentary that came

632
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: out in two thousand four Some kind of Monster, which

633
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: is basically a group therapy sessions that they struggle not

634
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: to break up amid their whole litany of problems, their

635
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: napster lawsuits, Jason Newston's the Parture, James Hetfield, substance abuse issues,

636
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: and just general low morale during the sessions. For it

637
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: would become sane anger and to help them through this,

638
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: the band hires what they call the performance enhancement coach,

639
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: just basically a therapist, and one of the things that

640
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: this person recommends is a really frank discussion with Dave Mustain,

641
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: which ends up going down on September two thousand one,

642
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: so just to heighten the emotional level even more, this

643
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: was two days after nine eleven. Dave is more than

644
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: down to have this discussion with his ex bandmates. He

645
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: even says, I've been waiting for this day for a

646
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: long time, which is very ominous, and the footage in

647
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: the film is incredibly emotionally charged, incredibly hard to watch.

648
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I mean, just it's I mean, Dave's telling laws that

649
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: getting kicked out of Metallica ruined his life. He said,

650
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: I had nothing, then I had everything, and then I

651
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: had nothing again, which was fine, but then having someone

652
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: stand on my head and keep me in the water,

653
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: that's what he felt like Metallica did. No matter how

654
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: many platinum albums Mega Death would earn, he always lived

655
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: in the shadow the more successful Metallica, and he'sa you know,

656
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: no matter how many years ago, I think it was

657
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: eighteen years earlier, at this point, it still feels like

658
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: yesterday and a getting back to what he said earlier.

659
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: For him, it was really about not being given a

660
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: second chance. That was supposedly what the first thing he

661
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: said when they told him he's out of the band.

662
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: He said, what, no warning, no second chance. There are

663
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: ways to address what was going on with my problem.

664
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: Who I am sober is totally different from who I

665
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: am drunk. We never gave it a try. From his

666
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: point of view, they never really knew the real him,

667
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: sober him in the band, and he was hurt that

668
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to really to do that, to have

669
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: that opportunity, and this conversation is going on, well, James

670
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: Hetfield is seeking treatment for alcoholism too, so I think

671
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: that made it seem sort of doubly unfair that that

672
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: they're dredging up these horrific moments from his past now

673
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: that he is sober, well, James is treated with this

674
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: level of compassion. Okay, you can stay in the band,

675
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: go get help. But I think that's really something that

676
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: I think Mustange should feel justifiably upset about. You know,

677
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: when I watched that scene, I feel like it's a

678
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: pretty honest and fair depiction of how Dave Mustain feels

679
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: about getting kicked out of Metallica and how I think

680
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: I'll always feel about it. But when Mustain himself saw

681
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: the movie, he got really upset. And I think it's

682
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: because he comes up as looking kind of pathetic in

683
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: the movie, Like he looks like a guy who's still

684
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: hung up on this thing that at that point, it

685
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: happened about twenty years earlier. And again, I think it's

686
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: an honest depiction, but I think maybe he was too

687
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: honest for tape Mustain because he really felt like he

688
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: had been set up. You know. He blamed the fact

689
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: that the scene was filmed, you know, two days after

690
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: nine eleven. He said, like, I was more emotional than

691
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: I would have otherwise been. He also said that, like,

692
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, I talked to Large for three hours, and

693
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: they used five minutes of this conversation. I mean, of

694
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: course they weren't going to use all three hours, dude,

695
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, like they're not gonna use the whole thing.

696
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: But you know, he felt that the that the parts

697
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: that they cut for the film weren't representative in his

698
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: mind of what the conversation was actually like. He said,

699
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't show the scene where I gave

700
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: it to Lars for how he treated me, and Lars

701
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: ran off to about him crying. You know, they always

702
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: showed me crying, you know. I just think that he

703
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: ultimately felt like weak, that he looked weak in this movie,

704
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: even if again, I think it's an honest depiction. I

705
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: think again, like, as we've discussed in this episode, he's

706
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: never been able to let go of being fired from Metallica,

707
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: and it seems like what he says in the scenes

708
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: that you see in the movie are you know, just

709
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: sort of like this unfiltered expression of the hurt, uh

710
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: and anger that he felt about that. I think they've

711
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 1: just wanted to be seen as like yelling at Lars

712
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: all work in the movie. I think White wanted to

713
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: be seen as like more of a badass than he

714
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: actually is. Uh So he was very angry about how

715
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: the movie turned out. He actually ended up writing a

716
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: song too about that movie. And if you've heard this song,

717
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: it's on the record The System Has Failed, which is

718
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: not one of the best Mega Death records by the way,

719
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: I'll just throw that out there. Came out in two

720
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: thousand four. The song is called something that I'm Not

721
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: and he doesn't like mention some kind of monster by

722
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: name or Lars all work by name. But there are

723
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: references to one big charade fraud. My favorite reference little baby.

724
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: Uh presumably Lars l Rick is the little baby in

725
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: that situation. So again, this ends up being a thing

726
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: where you watched the movie and you feel like, wow,

727
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: it's amazing that these guys can get together and they

728
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: can be honest emotionally with each other and be vulnerable.

729
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: But from Misdaine, it's just like another betrayal and that's

730
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: how he perceives it, and instead of being able to

731
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: put this behind him, it just exacerbates his feelings of

732
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: betrayal even more. I gotta say I would happily watch

733
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: the director's cut with all three hours of their meeting, Like,

734
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: for real, that's the table, and they should be like

735
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: like like the Blue Ray extra should be like a

736
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: three hour just unedited, you know, thing of Lars and

737
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: Dave going at it, you know, I mean watching it,

738
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: I I thought I didn't think he looked I mean,

739
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: he didn't look like a badass, but I don't think

740
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: he looked weak either. That was a very articulate expression

741
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: of what he had gone through and you know, just

742
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: just of loss. You'd say, you know, all I had

743
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: was you and James. He had dreams together, and I

744
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 1: sold everything to join that dream and then it ended.

745
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: So I don't really know what he expected, really, I mean,

746
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: I guess other than like, you know, like Laura running

747
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: out of the room crying. Maybe, yeah, I agree with you.

748
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: I think that Mustain actually comes up really well in

749
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: the movie. But I guess I'm just speculating that that

750
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: is his problem with it. I wonder if he felt

751
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: that he came off as weak or vulnerable, or as

752
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: like a cry baby or something, and that's why he

753
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: was still against the movie, because otherwise I don't really

754
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 1: understand his reaction at all. So he makes this big

755
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: stink about the Metallica documentary and Lars gets his revenge.

756
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: In two thousand nine, the Metallica are inducted in the

757
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and despite Dave's role

758
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: as a founding member, Laras said that he wasn't going

759
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: to be inducted because he never actually recorded an album

760
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: with the band, and then that that was large justification, said,

761
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: You've got to kind of cap it somewhere. Dave Mustain

762
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: never played on any Metallica records. No disrespect to him,

763
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: but there were half a dozen other people that were

764
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: in the lineup in the early days. We thought the

765
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: fair thing to do would be to include everybody that

766
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: played on a Metallica record. And then he had a

767
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: pretty brutal part shot. Dave Mustain was in the band

768
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: for eleven months, predominantly in two. I'm not trying to

769
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: play it down. I have nothing but respect and admiration

770
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: for his accomplishments since. But there's an implied but he's

771
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: not really he's completely downplaying his influence in Metallica history

772
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: in a way that I think is unfair. You don't you, Yeah, yeah,

773
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: I mean I was gonna say, I think he should

774
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: have been inducted. Um. Yeah, he didn't play on the records,

775
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: but like he co wrote some significant songs when he

776
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: was in the band, and I think it's fair to

777
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: say that Kirk Hammond was just imitating what Dave Mustain

778
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: did in the early days. You know, I think Kirk

779
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 1: Hammon eventually, you know, in the later records he developed

780
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: his own voice, but he was clearly brought in because

781
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: he could replicate what Dave Mustain had done when he

782
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: was in the band to put him on the same

783
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: level as like Ron mcgubney or something. I think it's

784
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: like just yeah, it's blatantly like like untrue, like it's

785
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: mustain had a huge, i think influential role in shaping

786
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: the sound of Metallica earlier, and it would have been

787
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: this incredible sort of you know, peacemaking moment between them all. Instead,

788
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: Dave's just invited to attend the ceremony as a guest,

789
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: which he turned down understandably. He said that he had

790
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: commitments playing a European tour with with Judas Priest. Uh

791
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: that's the official version. He would later say, you know what,

792
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: do you think I'm nuts going to go just sit

793
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: in the audience while you know, they're being inducted, and

794
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: I'm just like, you know, cast out, Like that's masochism

795
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: what he'd say. So, I mean, understandably he didn't show up,

796
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: and he's still you know, grumbling about it in the press,

797
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: and this really makes James Hetfield say, you know what,

798
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: this guy is ridiculous. This is guy He's gotta let

799
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: it go. He gives an interview around the same time

800
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: as the Hall of Fame induction. I mean, Dave's not

801
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: in this band for a reason, he said, and this

802
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: reason is super simple. He was in the band for

803
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: eleven months, and he goes on and on and on

804
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: and on. I don't know any other band on the

805
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: planet that there was a member in the band for

806
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: a short amount of time and they've still got this

807
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: big a chip on his shoulder. It's insane, you know what.

808
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: He's in love and that's fine because we love him back.

809
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: So James Hepfield characterizes as unrequited love on the stands part,

810
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: and I think he's right. I mean, I don't know

811
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 1: how else you really can look at this other than

812
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, Misstain had a girlfriend in the early eighties

813
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: that dumped him, and he hasn't gotten over the girlfriend,

814
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: even though he married somebody else. You know, he's still

815
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: stuck on Metallica and even here. You know, it's like

816
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: he gets dissed over the rock and Roll Hall of

817
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: Fame thing and he can't let it go. He can't

818
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: just like let Metallica do their thing. He has to

819
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: find a way to get revenge, and he does it

820
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: I think in a pretty effective way. You know, as

821
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: petty as this is you have to tip your cap

822
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: to him for the interview that he gives in two

823
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: thousand nine to Rolling Stone, where he tells the magazine

824
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: that there was a rumor in the mid eighties that

825
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: Metallica was going to fire Lars, I guess after the

826
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: Master of Puppets tour, and they didn't because Cliff Burton

827
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: died and if Cliff Burton had lived, then Lars all

828
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: Record had been out of the band. And he actually

829
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: got a supporting witness for this, scott Ian from Anthrax.

830
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: He confirmed that this was a rumor, and then Kirk

831
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: Hammett also said that, like, well, yeah, I think we

832
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 1: were maybe mad at Lars at some point and maybe

833
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: we said something to somebody it was a bigger deal

834
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: than it actually was. But it's like he didn't deny

835
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: that this was something that was you know, kind of

836
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: floating in the air in the mid eighties. So you know, again,

837
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: it's a super petty thing to bring up, you know,

838
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: like more than twenty years after the fact. But I

839
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: think for misstain, you know, again, someone who's defined by

840
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: you know, how he was fired from Metallica, for him

841
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: to say that, like, well, Lars could have been also

842
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: out of the band if not for you know, this

843
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: terrible tragedy that happened. I mean there must have been

844
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: something I guess like sickly satisfying about that for Dave mistake,

845
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure. And also just the show cracks between the

846
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: James Lars duo too, which is, you know, just to

847
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: pit them against one another and and to to refresh

848
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: all those those wounds twenty years later. It was. It

849
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: was a pretty cunning Yeah, agent, a chaos agent, Dave Mustain.

850
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: And again I go back to the James Headfield quote.

851
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: He's right, David stains in the band for eleven months,

852
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: and yet it's like you have your ex in your

853
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: life forever, Like you can't get rid of your ex.

854
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: You know, you're crazy X that haunts you forever. Uh,

855
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: you know they're going to keep, you know, causing havoc,

856
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, decades after the Is this around the same

857
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: time that must writes his memoir to which I'm sure

858
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: is just another opportunity from the event. Is Spleen about

859
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: about Metallica? Yeah, there was that thing about how he

860
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: accused Metallica of ripping off this song that Megadeth recorded

861
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: for the bill and Ted Bogus Journey soundtrack called Go

862
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: to Hell, and there's a there's a passage in that

863
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: song like where Mustain starts doing the Lord's Prayer and

864
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: then you know, soon after that, Metallica of course they

865
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: put on Inner Sandman, which has the now I lave

866
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: me down to sleep passage in the middle of the song.

867
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, he accused Metallica of ripping him off, although

868
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: really they all just ripped off the Lord the Lord's Prayer.

869
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: So so the Lord himself is the one who really

870
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 1: has a case here for chaces pending, cases pending. So

871
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: in spite of all of his sniping, James Heffield finds

872
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: some stuff getting nostalgic around the time of the Rock

873
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame induction. He's thinking about all

874
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 1: the other bands that came up with Metallica and this

875
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: leads in to the Big four shows. The guy it's

876
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: like the massive metal piece accords. You got Metallica, Anthrax,

877
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: Slayer and Megadeth. It was the first time that Megadeth

878
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: of Metallica shared a stage together since that British show

879
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: where where where Dave gave that big speech on stage.

880
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: Uh and Metallica for to their credit made a concerted

881
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: effort to try to ease tension between all the bands

882
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: before the show. They would organize big group dinners beforehand,

883
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: like team building type of stuff, so that everybody could

884
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: hang out. Uh. And the vibe was apparently reportedly really good,

885
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: and all the bands would hug and jam together and

886
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: it was a really positive experience for everybody, UH, particularly Dave,

887
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: who joined Metallica on stage for a group jam on

888
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: Diamond Heads Helpless and Kirk Hammett gives Dave the solo,

889
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: which Dave was really touched by. For him, he said,

890
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: it was kind of a symbolic passing of the torch

891
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: back to me, and it was a nice gesture and

892
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: it really helped relations improved between everybody, and then that

893
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: really was a big moment for him. The only dark

894
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: cloud that appeared on all these Big Four shows that

895
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: went on off and on for about eighteen months was

896
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: right before their show at Yankee Stadium in September, two

897
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: days before Megadeth pulled out of the concert because Damon

898
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: Stain had to undergo surgery for a neck and spine

899
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: condition that he said was due to years of headbanging,

900
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 1: which I don't know. May Or may not be true.

901
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: And apparently he heard that Metallica's co manager called him

902
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: a quote pussy for not playing the gig. So a

903
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: day before he's about to go into surgery, but potentially

904
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, life saving surgery. According to him, Uh, he

905
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: changed his mind. He flies back to uh New York,

906
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: does the gigg. He's wheeled on the stage and like

907
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: a golf cart or something, and he plays his gig.

908
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: I think I'm like a neck brace or something to

909
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 1: to sort of like prove it to them. Tallica camp

910
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: that he's got he's got the metal to do this,

911
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: like you know, he said he had signs all over

912
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: the stage and said do not headbang because apparently if

913
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: he did, he was like close to getting paralyzed if

914
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: he did. He also we talked to the press. You

915
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: would say that both James Hetfield and Tom Area from

916
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: Slayer had similar surgeries, and the implication being, yet again,

917
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: my medical issues aren't treated with the same degree of

918
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: compassion and cares there's with alcoholism. If its neck problems,

919
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: some everybody else, they get a path. But with me,

920
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: I'm called a pussy or kicked out of the band

921
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: or something. And I thought that was that was very interesting.

922
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: But for him, the best moment of all these reunion

923
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: shows was the Metallica thirtieth anniversary concert in December twenty eleven.

924
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: They played it in San Francisco at the Film War

925
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: Auditorium and Metallica invited a lot of their former members back.

926
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,479
Speaker 1: One of them was Ron McGovney, and they also got

927
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: miss stand back and Kirk once again let him take

928
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: some solos. And for this was really all that mistake

929
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: ever wanted. He was back for this one night only.

930
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: He was back in Metallica. He was playing lead. This

931
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: was all we'd ever wanted. This was a peak moment

932
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 1: for him, and of course, as peak moments go with

933
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: Dave Mustain, it was downhill after this. Yeah, I just

934
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: I think you really have to again do a shout

935
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: out to Kirk Hammett, Like, how cool is Kirk Hammett

936
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: that like he let Dave Mustain do this again. This

937
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: guy who is like Mustain is dissed Hammett for years.

938
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: You know, Hammont could very easily like play the diva

939
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: card and not allow Mustain even on the same stage

940
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: with him, much less to take over the solos. But again,

941
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to have magnanimous. Hammett was, although

942
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, bringing misstain back in the band.

943
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 1: It just again it seems like the guy who is

944
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: obsessed with the girlfriend. The girlfriend maybe offers to like

945
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: go out to dinner with the guy, and then the

946
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: guy thinks that they're gonna get back together because it's like, oh,

947
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: finally I have a chance to get back into the fold.

948
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: Because after these concerts, Mustain starts talking about a Metallica

949
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: Megadeth super like he floats this idea into the media,

950
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 1: which is never gonna happen. Well, why would Metallica do this.

951
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: Metallica very strong brand, they could tour on their own.

952
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: They don't need Dave Mustain. Mustain probably needs Metallica more

953
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: than than vice versa. And he starts talking about this

954
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 1: in the press. Mustain does like it's gonna happen, and

955
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: of course it's up to the guys of Metallica to

956
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: pump the brakes on this. And and James Hetfield as

957
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: I think a pretty great quotehere he says, this is

958
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: the day that we kind of wanted to forget about,

959
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: you know, the big mouth that just wants to go,

960
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: go go, and again, like you know, he says that,

961
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: but then he couches it in like you know, affection

962
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: for misstain. Ultimately, he says, you know, there's an authenticity

963
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: about him when he speaks. He doesn't think too much

964
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: before he does. He just goes off the cuff. And

965
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: he said, that's kind of endearing, but also it creates

966
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: problems for us because he says these things and then

967
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 1: we have to answer for them. And then Dave's answer,

968
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: I think again, it just speaks to the passive aggress

969
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: that is inherent in this relationship. He says, I guess

970
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: my whole thing was that I wanted them to know

971
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: that I loved them and that I missed them and

972
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: I enjoyed playing with them. If that's not mutual, then

973
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: I understand I still respect him and I still care

974
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: about the guy. If he doesn't want to play with

975
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: me anymore, that's cool. Of course, it's not cool. We

976
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: all know it's not cool with him, and the whole

977
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: thing of like, well, I just wanted them to know

978
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: that I love them. But if they don't love me back,

979
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, poor me, you know, going right back to

980
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: the self pity thing, you know, it just shows, like

981
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: I guess, like the vicious cycle that was in play

982
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: with these bands at this time. But even with this

983
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: vicious cycle, you know, and like all of the negative

984
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: mojo that's come mainly from Dave Mustain, you still get

985
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: the sense that there is like a friendship here. Like

986
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: as maddening as Mustain is, I think in a lot

987
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: of ways, it seems like there is like the affection

988
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: that you would have for anyone that you've like lived

989
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: very intense periods of your life with, like if you

990
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: were in a war or something, like you're always going

991
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: to be friends with your war buddies, you know. And

992
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: I think there's like a similar thing with Metallic and

993
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: Mega Death, where you know, as mad ning as Mustain

994
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 1: is going to be, it's like James and Lars, They're

995
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: always going to have a place in their heart, absolutely,

996
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: And you see that with with Mustain's recent cancer diagnosis,

997
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, which is really brutal him. He's been given

998
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: it everything he's got. I think he's had like fifty

999
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: one radiation treatments and nine chemo treatments or something, and

1000
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: he was touched when James Headfield reached out, he said,

1001
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: I got a text from my old brother James Hetfield

1002
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: and I was so so happy to hear from him.

1003
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: Contrary to what anybody says, and contrary to any of

1004
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: the act that we put on. I love James and

1005
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: I know that James loves me and cares about me.

1006
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: You can see that when the moment of truth is

1007
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: here and I'm telling the world that I've got a

1008
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: life threatening disease, who comes to stand next to me? James?

1009
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: And I think it seems like Dave Mustain is doing

1010
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: better now, like with his with his cancer treatment, So

1011
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: that's great news. I really look forward to the day

1012
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: when all these guys are in wheelchairs and they're still

1013
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: saying terrible things about each other's guitar solos. You know,

1014
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: that's something I hope really comes into play in the future.

1015
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: All right, hand, we'll be right back with more rivals.

1016
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: We've now reached the part of the episode where we

1017
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: give the pro side of each part of the rivalry.

1018
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Metallica first. I mean, look, they're the

1019
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: most popular metal band of all time. While Dave Mustain

1020
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: was a crucial member early on, there's no question that

1021
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: Mattall because most popular music was made without him. Uh,

1022
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: they ultimately didn't need Dave Mustain, and they were probably

1023
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: happier for having kicked into the curb. You know, as

1024
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: as traumatic as that was, probably in the moment, it

1025
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: just seems like for being able to live inside of

1026
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,720
Speaker 1: this band, it was just gonna go a lot smoother

1027
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: getting rid of Dave Mustain and bringing in you know, Mellow,

1028
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: Happy Go Lucky, Kirk Hammet And you know, Metallica is

1029
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: still a band today. They're still playing huge shows, putting

1030
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: out you know, very successful records, and um, I'm sure

1031
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: that's why. I mean, I think if Mustain had stayed

1032
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: in the band, they probably would have imploded back in

1033
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. Yeah, I mean, like you said earlier,

1034
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: the ultimate argument ender is essentially their Metallica and the

1035
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: biggest selling metal band of all time, when the most

1036
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: influential bands period in history. They set the template for

1037
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: what a heavy metal band is supposed to look like

1038
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: and sound like. I think, you know what I mean,

1039
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: And I think that although they didn't always keep a

1040
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: consistent sound, I think their highs are you know, without question,

1041
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,959
Speaker 1: higher than than uh than Megadeth and the Black Album Ride,

1042
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: The Lightning, Master of Puppets, Justice for All, It's the

1043
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: foundation of modern metal. And you know, plus this is crucial.

1044
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: They don't have Dave Mustains singing hell old me. I

1045
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: like Dave Mustain's voice. I think it's pretty cool voice.

1046
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, they definitely not only survived without Mistain,

1047
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: but they thrived without the amustained. But going to the

1048
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: pro Megadas side, you know, I don't think you can

1049
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: really underestimate how difficult it was for Mustain to form

1050
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: a new band and really become like not as successful

1051
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: in Metallica, but like more successful than like metal bands ever.

1052
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: I mean I brought up this analogy earlier, but like,

1053
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: imagine if Pete Best after he was fired from the

1054
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: Beatles had like formed the Kinks or the who you know,

1055
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: or another like prominent British rock band, not as big

1056
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: as the Beatles, but still very successful. I mean, that's

1057
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: essentially what Dave Mustain did with Megadeth. And yes he's

1058
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: very petty, and yes he hasn't been able to get

1059
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: over getting kicked out out of Metallica, but like, maybe

1060
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: pettiness is good for your career sometimes his goal well yeah, exactly,

1061
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 1: if if your goal was to get revenge on Metallica

1062
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 1: and this sort of all consuming hatred is what is

1063
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: driving you in your career. I mean, it propelled Megadeth

1064
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: to like millions in record sales and into playing big concerts.

1065
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: You know, maybe it also caused Mustain to get sick

1066
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: later in his life, because you can't carry around that

1067
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: much bile, I think, and have a healthy life ultimately.

1068
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think what Mustain was able to do.

1069
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: You know, he was put in a pretty big hole

1070
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: when he was fired, and he dug his way out

1071
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: of it. And here we are, you know, almost forty

1072
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: years after he was fired, and Mustain and Megadeth are

1073
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: still going strong and you know, more power to them. Yeah,

1074
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, I mean a lot of the pro Megadeth

1075
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: arguments always seem to have this like air of country

1076
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: rarian is um. And my heart goes out to Dave

1077
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 1: Mustain just because, you know, as he said, I think

1078
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: he said it in some kind of monster. People hate

1079
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: him purely be virtue the fact that he's not in Metallica,

1080
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he's beating himself up about this

1081
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 1: truth over the years. He doesn't need legions of other

1082
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: metal heads gang up on him too. And you know,

1083
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: all the Metallica obviously had much higher highs. I think

1084
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 1: Megadeth had a really great consistent career, especially in the nineties,

1085
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: when you know, you could argue that Megadeth in the

1086
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 1: nineties with Rust in Peace, Countdown, New Extinction in euthan

1087
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: Asia gave Metallica's run nineties run and run for their money.

1088
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: I think that they're way more productive than Metallica in

1089
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: recent years. And for all of Dave's shortcomings as a vocalist,

1090
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: I think that his songs tend to have more complexity

1091
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: to him, more complex riffs and uh, you know, let's

1092
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 1: not forget he co wrote some of Metallica's best early

1093
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: songs too, and um and also this is crucial he

1094
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: didn't team up with lou Reid for Lulu Oh. I

1095
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: don't like that Lulu shape. I had to come up

1096
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: at some point. That's what a Metallica's greatest achievements. And

1097
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to my grave arguing that. Now looking

1098
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: at Metallica and Megadet together, I mean, look, this feud

1099
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: is like one of the best in metal history, and

1100
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: us hosting a feuds podcast, we love that sort of thing,

1101
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: so we're glad that exists. And really, I mean we

1102
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: all came out ahead. I think it was inevitable that,

1103
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 1: you know, even if the Stained were like an angel

1104
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: and didn't have a drinking problem and wasn't belligerent, he

1105
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: eventually would have left Metallica because he had his own

1106
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 1: strong artistic vision. And instead of having one world class

1107
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: metal band, we now have two world class metal bands.

1108
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: So I feel like as headbangers out there, we all

1109
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: came out ahead because these guys only this is one

1110
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: of the greatest examples of you can enjoy both in rock.

1111
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: You get too awesome thrash metal bands for the price

1112
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: of wine, and that's something that should be celebrated. Now,

1113
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: Ice Field, Jordan's that you know now that we're at

1114
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: the end of another episode that when it comes to

1115
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: uh talking about rivalries, nothing else matters in my life,

1116
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: or should I say nothing matters? Excellent pun We fade

1117
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: to black. Yes, So thank you for listening to this

1118
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: episode of Rivals. We'll be back with more beefs and

1119
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: feuds and long simming resentments next week. Rivals is a

1120
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,479
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Shawn

1121
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: Tytone and Noel Brown. Supervising producers are Taylor chicogn and

1122
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: Tristan McNeil. The producer is Joel hat Stat. I'm Jordan's

1123
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: Runt Talk and I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what

1124
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review. For

1125
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: more podcast for My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart

1126
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1127
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 1: favorite shows