1 00:00:14,916 --> 00:00:34,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Our dominant model and narrative is that we should deny, reduce, 2 00:00:34,356 --> 00:00:38,476 Speaker 1: and avoid stress, and that is not always the case. 3 00:00:38,716 --> 00:00:41,996 Speaker 1: Every single person I know can tell of the time 4 00:00:42,276 --> 00:00:47,316 Speaker 1: where their stress helps them. That's Medube Akinola, a professor 5 00:00:47,356 --> 00:00:50,636 Speaker 1: at the Columbia Business School and an expert on stress. 6 00:00:51,516 --> 00:00:53,756 Speaker 1: Medube is on a mission to change how we think 7 00:00:53,796 --> 00:00:56,956 Speaker 1: about short term stress, the kind we feel when we're 8 00:00:56,996 --> 00:01:00,156 Speaker 1: preparing for a big presentation at work or before a 9 00:01:00,156 --> 00:01:03,836 Speaker 1: difficult conversation with a friend. She says, we can reframe 10 00:01:03,876 --> 00:01:07,556 Speaker 1: our stress as something that actually helps us. It's often 11 00:01:07,636 --> 00:01:10,636 Speaker 1: your mindset about stress that can influence the extent to 12 00:01:10,676 --> 00:01:15,076 Speaker 1: which it can have harmful or helpful effects. So when 13 00:01:15,156 --> 00:01:18,796 Speaker 1: we have more of a stress's enhancing mindset that leads 14 00:01:18,836 --> 00:01:26,476 Speaker 1: to better outcomes. On today's show, What Science teaches Us 15 00:01:26,516 --> 00:01:32,876 Speaker 1: about the Upside of Stress, I'm maya shunker and this 16 00:01:32,956 --> 00:01:35,516 Speaker 1: is a slight change of plans, a show about who 17 00:01:35,556 --> 00:01:37,836 Speaker 1: we are and who we become in the face of 18 00:01:37,876 --> 00:01:52,196 Speaker 1: a big change. It's easy for us to see stress 19 00:01:52,236 --> 00:01:55,876 Speaker 1: as the enemy. In a stressful situation, our heart races, 20 00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:59,636 Speaker 1: our blood pressure rises, our breathing quickens, and this can 21 00:01:59,716 --> 00:02:02,996 Speaker 1: all feel pretty uncomfortable. If we could wave a magic 22 00:02:03,076 --> 00:02:05,996 Speaker 1: wand that would eliminate all future stress from our lives, 23 00:02:06,436 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 1: many of us would wave that wand to do. Pay 24 00:02:09,716 --> 00:02:11,876 Speaker 1: believes that if we can make a small shift in 25 00:02:11,916 --> 00:02:16,396 Speaker 1: our mindset, stress can actually be a powerful asset. So 26 00:02:17,036 --> 00:02:19,676 Speaker 1: can you start off by sharing what it is that 27 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:23,796 Speaker 1: got you interested in studying stress in the first place. Basically, 28 00:02:24,076 --> 00:02:27,756 Speaker 1: I grew up as a child of immigrants, and anyone 29 00:02:27,796 --> 00:02:30,716 Speaker 1: who is a child of immigrants knows that there is 30 00:02:30,876 --> 00:02:34,356 Speaker 1: just stress involved in that experience. The stress of moving 31 00:02:34,356 --> 00:02:38,076 Speaker 1: to a new country, the stress of having kids, raising 32 00:02:38,156 --> 00:02:41,076 Speaker 1: kids in a new environment, the stress of being far 33 00:02:41,156 --> 00:02:44,556 Speaker 1: away from your family if you've come from a developing country, 34 00:02:44,716 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 1: being able to support your family while also trying to 35 00:02:48,316 --> 00:02:51,156 Speaker 1: help your kids learn a new language. Here, all of that, 36 00:02:51,756 --> 00:02:55,716 Speaker 1: and so I realized later on in life that I 37 00:02:55,756 --> 00:02:58,836 Speaker 1: had absorbed a lot of that stress. Heck, to this day, 38 00:02:58,876 --> 00:03:01,916 Speaker 1: I still watch my parents stress and have to say 39 00:03:01,956 --> 00:03:06,156 Speaker 1: to myself, wait a minute, pause, do all the things 40 00:03:06,196 --> 00:03:08,916 Speaker 1: that I advise other people to do. So that is 41 00:03:08,956 --> 00:03:12,156 Speaker 1: a piece of why I study stress. But also one 42 00:03:12,196 --> 00:03:13,916 Speaker 1: of the things I love about my parents was that 43 00:03:13,996 --> 00:03:17,676 Speaker 1: they were very education focused and so the stress of 44 00:03:17,956 --> 00:03:20,476 Speaker 1: doing well in school, not even just the pressure that 45 00:03:20,476 --> 00:03:22,636 Speaker 1: they put on us. They didn't put much pressure on us. 46 00:03:22,636 --> 00:03:24,756 Speaker 1: They just sent us to one of the best private 47 00:03:24,756 --> 00:03:28,356 Speaker 1: schools possible and said, you know, you do you. But 48 00:03:28,636 --> 00:03:31,596 Speaker 1: in that process that meant that I experienced the stress 49 00:03:31,596 --> 00:03:35,796 Speaker 1: of being one of few black people in every classroom 50 00:03:35,916 --> 00:03:39,516 Speaker 1: I was in. So then there's a stress of adjusting 51 00:03:39,556 --> 00:03:42,396 Speaker 1: and adapting to environments where you are the only where 52 00:03:42,436 --> 00:03:46,196 Speaker 1: you're different. So all of those things combined led to 53 00:03:46,236 --> 00:03:51,236 Speaker 1: me eventually studying stress. Yeah, there's this charming story in 54 00:03:51,236 --> 00:03:54,036 Speaker 1: the Dufe about your high school yearbook and the fact 55 00:03:54,036 --> 00:03:56,116 Speaker 1: that clearly you weren't the only one thinking that you 56 00:03:56,116 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 1: were stressed out. Can you tell us a bit about that. Yes, So, 57 00:04:00,276 --> 00:04:02,996 Speaker 1: you know, in high school usually you have a yearbook, 58 00:04:03,116 --> 00:04:06,276 Speaker 1: and in our yearbook there are roasts. In those roasts, 59 00:04:06,396 --> 00:04:09,636 Speaker 1: it highlights who you think you are and who you 60 00:04:09,676 --> 00:04:14,516 Speaker 1: actually are. And my dream was that I was best dressed, 61 00:04:14,956 --> 00:04:17,276 Speaker 1: is what they said. But my reality was that I 62 00:04:17,356 --> 00:04:21,876 Speaker 1: was the most stressed. So even senior year, you know, 63 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:25,436 Speaker 1: even senior year, they saw that in me, and I 64 00:04:25,476 --> 00:04:28,636 Speaker 1: saw it in myself. But the thing about it is 65 00:04:28,756 --> 00:04:30,796 Speaker 1: there were so many ways in which that stress helped me. 66 00:04:30,876 --> 00:04:33,476 Speaker 1: It challenged me, and it pushed me. So I kind 67 00:04:33,516 --> 00:04:36,876 Speaker 1: of always felt like stress isn't always this terrible thing 68 00:04:37,356 --> 00:04:39,796 Speaker 1: that we need to run away from and avoid and deny. 69 00:04:40,076 --> 00:04:43,476 Speaker 1: Maybe it is helping us in some ways too. So 70 00:04:43,556 --> 00:04:45,156 Speaker 1: let's start with the basics. If you can give us 71 00:04:45,196 --> 00:04:47,476 Speaker 1: kind of the stress one oh one, how do you 72 00:04:47,636 --> 00:04:53,156 Speaker 1: define stress? I feel like the simplest definition is when 73 00:04:53,196 --> 00:04:57,196 Speaker 1: the demands of a situation exceed your resources to cope. 74 00:04:57,836 --> 00:04:59,516 Speaker 1: But you have to then take it a step further 75 00:04:59,556 --> 00:05:02,916 Speaker 1: and say, well, what are demands? And often demands are 76 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:06,556 Speaker 1: there's some type of danger in the situation, there's some 77 00:05:06,596 --> 00:05:09,436 Speaker 1: type of uncertainty. You need to exert a bit of 78 00:05:09,516 --> 00:05:13,916 Speaker 1: extra effort in this situation. Then when you think about resources, well, 79 00:05:13,956 --> 00:05:17,716 Speaker 1: what helps us overcome danger, uncertainty, extra effort we need 80 00:05:17,796 --> 00:05:20,476 Speaker 1: to put into something. Well, when we have the knowledge 81 00:05:20,476 --> 00:05:24,956 Speaker 1: and the abilities to tackle that thing, when our personalities, 82 00:05:24,996 --> 00:05:28,796 Speaker 1: our dispositions can be helpful in tackling that thing, and 83 00:05:28,876 --> 00:05:31,876 Speaker 1: also when we have externals aboard other people cheering us on, 84 00:05:31,956 --> 00:05:36,076 Speaker 1: other people teaching us, that's when we have more resources. Yeah, 85 00:05:36,116 --> 00:05:39,036 Speaker 1: what's interesting about this definition is that when it comes 86 00:05:39,036 --> 00:05:43,716 Speaker 1: to stress, it's really about our subjective assessment that we 87 00:05:43,796 --> 00:05:46,196 Speaker 1: have the resources to cope. So it might not be 88 00:05:46,516 --> 00:05:49,956 Speaker 1: the objective resources. In fact, I might have the mental 89 00:05:49,996 --> 00:05:52,436 Speaker 1: and physical resources to cope with the situation, but if 90 00:05:52,436 --> 00:05:55,996 Speaker 1: my self perception is that I don't have those resources now, 91 00:05:56,036 --> 00:05:58,716 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it is a stressful situation. Yeah, 92 00:05:58,756 --> 00:06:01,756 Speaker 1: so I would almost reframe the definition as feeling like 93 00:06:01,876 --> 00:06:05,356 Speaker 1: the demands of the situation exceed your resources to cope. 94 00:06:05,436 --> 00:06:07,636 Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? A lot of it is our 95 00:06:07,676 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 1: subjective assessment of it, which is a piece of why 96 00:06:10,956 --> 00:06:13,956 Speaker 1: I tell people don't say like, don't be stressed, that 97 00:06:14,036 --> 00:06:17,396 Speaker 1: shouldn't stress you out, because it doesn't matter. Subjectively, I 98 00:06:17,436 --> 00:06:20,556 Speaker 1: am feeling stressed. So that's what needs to be taken 99 00:06:20,596 --> 00:06:26,076 Speaker 1: into consideration, my subjective experience of it. On a physiological level, 100 00:06:26,156 --> 00:06:28,436 Speaker 1: can you tell us what happens to us when we 101 00:06:28,516 --> 00:06:34,236 Speaker 1: experience stress? So when we experience stress, our sympathetic nervous 102 00:06:34,276 --> 00:06:37,876 Speaker 1: system gets activated. It's that part of our body that 103 00:06:37,996 --> 00:06:40,756 Speaker 1: tells us do you need to fight or do you 104 00:06:40,796 --> 00:06:44,956 Speaker 1: need to flee this situation? And when that happens, we 105 00:06:45,076 --> 00:06:50,236 Speaker 1: get adrenaline, we get dopamine, we get cortisol, all of 106 00:06:50,276 --> 00:06:55,116 Speaker 1: the resources we need physiologically to move to act, to 107 00:06:55,156 --> 00:06:58,316 Speaker 1: do what we need to do. This process is a 108 00:06:58,396 --> 00:07:00,996 Speaker 1: very adaptive one, so that when you're done with the 109 00:07:00,996 --> 00:07:04,196 Speaker 1: stressor ideally your body wants to go back to its 110 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:08,756 Speaker 1: resting state, where those hormones decrease, that adrenaline decreased, you 111 00:07:08,836 --> 00:07:11,836 Speaker 1: get back to resting and relaxing and all that. That 112 00:07:11,956 --> 00:07:17,716 Speaker 1: is a normal physiological response to an acute stressor. Yeah, 113 00:07:17,756 --> 00:07:20,276 Speaker 1: I love you're sharing that, because stress obviously gets a 114 00:07:20,316 --> 00:07:23,676 Speaker 1: really bad rep but it's not just this random bad 115 00:07:23,676 --> 00:07:26,636 Speaker 1: thing that our body's experience. It exists in part because 116 00:07:26,996 --> 00:07:30,516 Speaker 1: it is highly adaptive and there are many situations in 117 00:07:30,556 --> 00:07:33,796 Speaker 1: which an active stress response helps us do what needs 118 00:07:33,836 --> 00:07:38,396 Speaker 1: to be done. Right, So, in other words, you mentioned cortisol, dopamine, adrenaline, 119 00:07:38,756 --> 00:07:43,316 Speaker 1: How do those translate into increased performance increased acuity? Just 120 00:07:43,396 --> 00:07:47,316 Speaker 1: help me build that bridge. So essentially, your body is 121 00:07:47,356 --> 00:07:50,916 Speaker 1: being taxed and your heart rate is increasing because again 122 00:07:50,956 --> 00:07:54,556 Speaker 1: you're getting ready. That cortisol is giving you the energy 123 00:07:54,676 --> 00:07:57,996 Speaker 1: that you need to be attentive, to be focused to 124 00:07:58,036 --> 00:08:01,676 Speaker 1: approach the situation, and when you have increased cortisol, you 125 00:08:01,756 --> 00:08:04,796 Speaker 1: are attentive to threats often in a good way. You're 126 00:08:04,836 --> 00:08:08,156 Speaker 1: like waiting for what's happening. You're able to remember things 127 00:08:08,156 --> 00:08:11,196 Speaker 1: in a different way, and so we need to remember 128 00:08:11,676 --> 00:08:16,316 Speaker 1: when our bodies are acting. It's telling us you've got this, now, 129 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:19,436 Speaker 1: let's use this. But one of the problems is when 130 00:08:20,156 --> 00:08:24,796 Speaker 1: we can be overactivated and too attentive to threat and 131 00:08:25,116 --> 00:08:28,356 Speaker 1: those levels of the dopamine. The court is all the adrenaline, 132 00:08:28,396 --> 00:08:32,716 Speaker 1: all that are staying elevated kind of chronically, and that 133 00:08:32,876 --> 00:08:36,476 Speaker 1: is what leads to disease and all of these problems 134 00:08:36,476 --> 00:08:39,516 Speaker 1: that we want to avoid physiologically. So that's kind of 135 00:08:39,516 --> 00:08:42,436 Speaker 1: the stress cycle. Okay, so now you've given us the 136 00:08:42,516 --> 00:08:44,996 Speaker 1: lay of the land on the basics of stress. Yes, 137 00:08:45,436 --> 00:08:49,876 Speaker 1: one fascinating thing your research focuses on is that how 138 00:08:49,876 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: we think about our own stress, our mindset, and our 139 00:08:52,956 --> 00:08:57,076 Speaker 1: attitude towards stress can actually change its impact on us. Yes, 140 00:08:57,276 --> 00:08:59,796 Speaker 1: can you first walk us through the two types of 141 00:08:59,836 --> 00:09:02,836 Speaker 1: mindsets that we can have towards stress. So the two 142 00:09:02,876 --> 00:09:06,396 Speaker 1: types of mindsets are a mindset that stress is enhancing. 143 00:09:07,156 --> 00:09:09,916 Speaker 1: It can help us in terms of our perform ours, 144 00:09:09,956 --> 00:09:14,196 Speaker 1: our growth, our learning. The second piece is that stress 145 00:09:14,236 --> 00:09:17,476 Speaker 1: is debilitating. It harms us in terms of our health 146 00:09:17,516 --> 00:09:20,716 Speaker 1: and vitality and our performance and our growth and our learning. 147 00:09:21,556 --> 00:09:25,516 Speaker 1: And it's often your mindset about stress that can influence 148 00:09:25,516 --> 00:09:28,916 Speaker 1: the extent to which it can have harmful or helpful effects. 149 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:32,436 Speaker 1: So when we have more of a stress is enhancing 150 00:09:32,516 --> 00:09:37,676 Speaker 1: mindset that leads to better outcomes. I love this research. 151 00:09:37,876 --> 00:09:40,036 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can give me a couple of 152 00:09:40,076 --> 00:09:44,636 Speaker 1: examples of how introducing this mindset shift was actually able 153 00:09:44,676 --> 00:09:48,116 Speaker 1: to help performance in different contexts. So in one study, 154 00:09:48,716 --> 00:09:52,596 Speaker 1: we had people just watch a video showing the many 155 00:09:52,636 --> 00:09:55,476 Speaker 1: ways in which stress can be enhancing. You can imagine 156 00:09:55,516 --> 00:09:58,516 Speaker 1: things like that stressful moment in a soccer game and 157 00:09:58,596 --> 00:10:01,516 Speaker 1: somebody makes the goal. We can each think of times 158 00:10:01,516 --> 00:10:03,876 Speaker 1: when we have risen to the occasion. When we show 159 00:10:03,876 --> 00:10:06,996 Speaker 1: people these videos and then have them engage in a 160 00:10:07,036 --> 00:10:10,876 Speaker 1: creative task, we find the they're more creative. We find 161 00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:13,316 Speaker 1: that they are more attentive to positive things in the 162 00:10:13,436 --> 00:10:17,756 Speaker 1: environment versus negative things in the environment. On the flip side, 163 00:10:18,076 --> 00:10:20,836 Speaker 1: tell people or show them videos of when stress can 164 00:10:20,836 --> 00:10:25,076 Speaker 1: be debilitating and see the opposite, they're less creative and 165 00:10:25,156 --> 00:10:30,276 Speaker 1: also generally more negative mood, more attentive to threats. So 166 00:10:30,316 --> 00:10:32,916 Speaker 1: that's some of the research we've done. Yeah, and I 167 00:10:32,956 --> 00:10:34,876 Speaker 1: know that you work at a business school and you 168 00:10:34,916 --> 00:10:38,956 Speaker 1: often think about psychology as it applies to organizational behavior, 169 00:10:39,356 --> 00:10:43,356 Speaker 1: and you did some similar research when it comes to negotiators. Yes, 170 00:10:43,476 --> 00:10:48,116 Speaker 1: so often people are very stressed in the context of negotiation. 171 00:10:48,676 --> 00:10:52,836 Speaker 1: So in this research, we basically just told people that, 172 00:10:52,916 --> 00:10:56,316 Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of stress before negotiations is 173 00:10:56,356 --> 00:10:59,956 Speaker 1: actually okay. So we had half the people we told that, 174 00:11:00,036 --> 00:11:03,036 Speaker 1: the other half we didn't tell anything prior to negotiation, 175 00:11:03,516 --> 00:11:08,676 Speaker 1: and we found that for women who experienced cortisol increases 176 00:11:08,676 --> 00:11:13,156 Speaker 1: in the negotiations, So physiologically they were stressed. However, they 177 00:11:13,156 --> 00:11:15,036 Speaker 1: were told a little bit of stress is okay in 178 00:11:15,036 --> 00:11:20,596 Speaker 1: the negotiation, they outperform those who were told nothing about 179 00:11:20,716 --> 00:11:25,436 Speaker 1: stress being helpful for negotiations. So there's something about knowing 180 00:11:25,476 --> 00:11:28,716 Speaker 1: that this is actually an okay thing, that when your 181 00:11:28,716 --> 00:11:33,716 Speaker 1: body is having this response, that can lead to beneficial outcomes. Yeah. 182 00:11:33,756 --> 00:11:36,876 Speaker 1: And one of the most fascinating insights is that our 183 00:11:36,956 --> 00:11:40,436 Speaker 1: underlying physiology can change when we adopt a stress as 184 00:11:40,516 --> 00:11:43,756 Speaker 1: enhancing mindset. So it's not just that I think more 185 00:11:43,796 --> 00:11:47,356 Speaker 1: positive thoughts, it actually can affect our physiological response to 186 00:11:47,436 --> 00:11:51,476 Speaker 1: stress at this underlying level. I think that that's absolutely 187 00:11:51,556 --> 00:11:54,396 Speaker 1: right that when you have an enhancing mindset, it can 188 00:11:54,476 --> 00:11:58,316 Speaker 1: affect your body's response to stress. There has been research 189 00:11:58,396 --> 00:12:02,476 Speaker 1: showing that the walls of your blood vessels, rather than constricting, 190 00:12:02,876 --> 00:12:06,676 Speaker 1: they're more likely to dilate with a stress's enhancing mindset. 191 00:12:07,076 --> 00:12:09,996 Speaker 1: And the importance of the mind body cannet is something 192 00:12:10,036 --> 00:12:12,916 Speaker 1: I think we often forget. And you know, our dominant 193 00:12:12,956 --> 00:12:16,556 Speaker 1: model and narrative is that we should deny, reduce, and 194 00:12:16,636 --> 00:12:21,556 Speaker 1: avoid stress, and that is not always the case. Every 195 00:12:21,556 --> 00:12:25,036 Speaker 1: single person I know can tell of the time where 196 00:12:25,116 --> 00:12:28,716 Speaker 1: their stress helps them. So instead, and this research we 197 00:12:28,756 --> 00:12:31,276 Speaker 1: talk a lot about how can you acknowledge your stress, 198 00:12:31,716 --> 00:12:34,276 Speaker 1: welcome your stress, and use it in a way that 199 00:12:34,356 --> 00:12:37,876 Speaker 1: will be beneficial because it is designed to help you. 200 00:12:38,316 --> 00:12:41,236 Speaker 1: Now it's important to say, I'm not saying run towards stress, 201 00:12:41,316 --> 00:12:44,876 Speaker 1: like you shouldn't like find more stressors. No, that's not 202 00:12:44,916 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 1: what we're saying. We're saying it's not always a bad thing. 203 00:12:48,196 --> 00:12:51,756 Speaker 1: It's actually designed to help you. Yeah, you talk about 204 00:12:51,956 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 1: dating your stress. Yes, you know, slight change listeners were 205 00:12:55,516 --> 00:12:57,756 Speaker 1: simply asking for a first date. Okay, you can decide 206 00:12:57,756 --> 00:12:59,316 Speaker 1: if you want to do a second or a third, 207 00:12:59,356 --> 00:13:02,036 Speaker 1: but just go on that first date. That's right. Get 208 00:13:02,036 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 1: to know your stress a little better and be kind 209 00:13:05,036 --> 00:13:07,676 Speaker 1: to it. Open the door for it, you know, let 210 00:13:07,716 --> 00:13:11,116 Speaker 1: it in, welcome it, see how it feels. That's what 211 00:13:11,196 --> 00:13:14,476 Speaker 1: we need to do a lot more of. After the break, 212 00:13:14,556 --> 00:13:16,956 Speaker 1: we hear more from a Dube about the benefits of 213 00:13:16,956 --> 00:13:20,516 Speaker 1: this mindset shift, and we talk about its limits. She 214 00:13:20,676 --> 00:13:23,716 Speaker 1: shares her go to strategies for managing stress. When a 215 00:13:23,756 --> 00:13:30,316 Speaker 1: simple reframe isn't enough, We'll be back in a moment 216 00:13:30,356 --> 00:13:45,596 Speaker 1: with a slight change of plans. Are there situations where 217 00:13:45,636 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 1: applying a stress as enhancing mindset doesn't make sense? Because 218 00:13:50,236 --> 00:13:52,556 Speaker 1: I can see a situation where if we apply this 219 00:13:52,676 --> 00:13:57,276 Speaker 1: mindset too liberally, we might end up tolerating certain stressful 220 00:13:57,276 --> 00:14:00,556 Speaker 1: situations that we really should try and avoid. So, for example, 221 00:14:01,196 --> 00:14:04,356 Speaker 1: a highly toxic relationship at work or in your personal life, 222 00:14:04,356 --> 00:14:07,156 Speaker 1: that's a situation where you're kind of you really think, Okay, 223 00:14:07,196 --> 00:14:09,116 Speaker 1: we need to change the situation. I need to get 224 00:14:09,116 --> 00:14:12,076 Speaker 1: out of this situation, versus using a mindset shift in 225 00:14:12,156 --> 00:14:13,756 Speaker 1: order to better adapt to it. So do you have 226 00:14:13,796 --> 00:14:17,796 Speaker 1: thoughts on that? Yeah, I do think that our minds 227 00:14:17,836 --> 00:14:20,756 Speaker 1: are so complicated and we will trick ourselves into believing 228 00:14:20,756 --> 00:14:22,876 Speaker 1: a stressful situation is a good one when it's not. 229 00:14:23,436 --> 00:14:26,516 Speaker 1: So that's when the idea. Remember I talked about demands resources. 230 00:14:26,716 --> 00:14:30,436 Speaker 1: One resource is external support, your friends helping you and 231 00:14:30,596 --> 00:14:34,516 Speaker 1: seeing when something is harmful versus helpful for you. Yeah, 232 00:14:34,516 --> 00:14:36,316 Speaker 1: I think it's helpful to clarify that this is a 233 00:14:36,396 --> 00:14:39,276 Speaker 1: mindset that's almost best to adopt when you're in situations 234 00:14:39,276 --> 00:14:42,316 Speaker 1: where you can't avoid the stress. You can't control whether 235 00:14:42,316 --> 00:14:45,636 Speaker 1: that situation exists or not, right, and so adopting a 236 00:14:45,676 --> 00:14:48,556 Speaker 1: more positive mindset might be one of the few resources 237 00:14:48,556 --> 00:14:51,236 Speaker 1: at hand. That's absolutely right. And the challenge with the 238 00:14:51,316 --> 00:14:54,796 Speaker 1: dominant narrative about reducing or avoiding stress is that there 239 00:14:54,836 --> 00:14:58,476 Speaker 1: are times where we cannot do that. You can't, it's 240 00:14:58,516 --> 00:15:02,996 Speaker 1: not possible. So that's why it's important to understand how 241 00:15:03,036 --> 00:15:06,516 Speaker 1: the stress it's you're experiencing or how your body's response 242 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 1: can be helpful. Absolutely. I mean, so many people listening 243 00:15:10,236 --> 00:15:12,956 Speaker 1: right now are thinking I don't have any control right 244 00:15:12,956 --> 00:15:16,276 Speaker 1: now over the stressful situation. So the dupe thank you 245 00:15:16,316 --> 00:15:19,716 Speaker 1: for giving us some other techniques. Yeah, Okay, let's say 246 00:15:19,756 --> 00:15:22,436 Speaker 1: we've consulted with our resources, so our friends and our 247 00:15:22,436 --> 00:15:24,236 Speaker 1: family and the people that we trust in our lives, 248 00:15:24,556 --> 00:15:27,996 Speaker 1: and we've consulted with ourselves of course, and we've identified 249 00:15:28,116 --> 00:15:32,396 Speaker 1: a situation in which having a stress as enhancing mindset 250 00:15:32,476 --> 00:15:34,996 Speaker 1: is going to serve us well, how do we learn 251 00:15:35,076 --> 00:15:38,836 Speaker 1: to cultivate this mindset? So a piece of this goes 252 00:15:38,836 --> 00:15:42,156 Speaker 1: back to that, how do I think of my stress differently? 253 00:15:42,916 --> 00:15:46,156 Speaker 1: When my heart is beating, I'm normally thinking to myself, 254 00:15:46,196 --> 00:15:49,116 Speaker 1: this is bad. But if you can remind yourself that 255 00:15:49,196 --> 00:15:52,156 Speaker 1: my heartbeating is telling me, like I'm excited about something, 256 00:15:52,196 --> 00:15:54,876 Speaker 1: there's something here that I care about. This is something 257 00:15:54,876 --> 00:15:56,516 Speaker 1: that I want to do well, and this is something 258 00:15:56,516 --> 00:15:59,236 Speaker 1: that I can do well. And then that reframes that 259 00:15:59,356 --> 00:16:02,716 Speaker 1: heartbeat not as a bad thing, but as your body 260 00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:05,676 Speaker 1: preparing to act. There have been so many times in 261 00:16:05,716 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 1: my life, whether when I was a child playing the violin, 262 00:16:08,956 --> 00:16:10,716 Speaker 1: or whether it's going into an interviews for a slight 263 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:13,956 Speaker 1: change of plans, I get a little spooked if I'm 264 00:16:13,996 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 1: not nervous, because that means maybe I don't care as 265 00:16:16,276 --> 00:16:18,036 Speaker 1: much as I used to. And so I've actually I 266 00:16:18,156 --> 00:16:21,436 Speaker 1: see stress as being a very affirming signal because it 267 00:16:21,516 --> 00:16:23,836 Speaker 1: shows me that I really care about the outcome, and 268 00:16:23,876 --> 00:16:28,516 Speaker 1: it justifies the unpleasantness of some of those feelings. And 269 00:16:28,596 --> 00:16:31,556 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful way of approaching it. That we are 270 00:16:31,556 --> 00:16:35,796 Speaker 1: typically stressed because there's an underlying reason why we care 271 00:16:35,916 --> 00:16:38,756 Speaker 1: about the situation. And if we can continue to ask 272 00:16:38,796 --> 00:16:43,676 Speaker 1: ourselves why why, then that puts a whole different lens 273 00:16:43,836 --> 00:16:47,996 Speaker 1: around why you're stressed and changes your approach. Can you 274 00:16:48,036 --> 00:16:49,836 Speaker 1: give me an example in the dubae from your own 275 00:16:49,836 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 1: life in which you started asking yourself the series of 276 00:16:52,476 --> 00:16:54,676 Speaker 1: why questions and it led you to a place where 277 00:16:54,996 --> 00:16:57,556 Speaker 1: you're better able to embrace your stress or at least 278 00:16:57,596 --> 00:17:00,276 Speaker 1: realize okay, good, at least it's serving some purpose. Yes, 279 00:17:01,116 --> 00:17:04,516 Speaker 1: I'm a professor, so each semester I teach one hundred 280 00:17:04,516 --> 00:17:09,396 Speaker 1: and forty plus students and the day before class would 281 00:17:09,396 --> 00:17:12,436 Speaker 1: always feel very stressed. And here's the thing, it's not 282 00:17:12,436 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 1: that I would also be stressed. I'd also be a jerk, 283 00:17:15,276 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 1: you know, I'd be obnoxious to my loved ones, like 284 00:17:17,996 --> 00:17:20,436 Speaker 1: just not a person that anyone wanted to be around. 285 00:17:20,916 --> 00:17:23,956 Speaker 1: And in fact, I'd be happier when my significant outhers 286 00:17:23,956 --> 00:17:26,996 Speaker 1: were traveling or whatever, because it's like I just wanted 287 00:17:26,996 --> 00:17:30,356 Speaker 1: to be focused, and I had to ask say to myself, 288 00:17:30,396 --> 00:17:33,436 Speaker 1: first of all, that's not sustainable over time. I'm a 289 00:17:33,436 --> 00:17:36,316 Speaker 1: good teacher. Students like me, I've done this for years. 290 00:17:36,676 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 1: So I had to say, Okay, well why do you 291 00:17:38,556 --> 00:17:42,796 Speaker 1: have this reaction? Why are you stressed? And often it 292 00:17:42,876 --> 00:17:45,596 Speaker 1: was like, I'm stressed because I don't want to do 293 00:17:45,636 --> 00:17:50,196 Speaker 1: badly in the classroom. Why because I feel like what 294 00:17:50,236 --> 00:17:53,036 Speaker 1: I have to share with students is really important. Why 295 00:17:53,276 --> 00:17:56,596 Speaker 1: because I'm training future business leaders to be the most 296 00:17:56,636 --> 00:18:00,916 Speaker 1: phenomenal leaders possible. Why Well, if I do that, well, 297 00:18:01,236 --> 00:18:05,276 Speaker 1: then our organizations will be healthier and people will be 298 00:18:05,356 --> 00:18:08,596 Speaker 1: happier in their workplaces. Well why does that matter? Because 299 00:18:08,596 --> 00:18:12,116 Speaker 1: if people are happier and healthier in their workplaces, then 300 00:18:12,356 --> 00:18:14,236 Speaker 1: we're going to be able to address some of the 301 00:18:14,276 --> 00:18:17,756 Speaker 1: critical challenges in this world, the questions that need to 302 00:18:17,756 --> 00:18:20,476 Speaker 1: be addressed, solve lots of the problems that need to 303 00:18:20,516 --> 00:18:24,116 Speaker 1: be solved. And so when you get to that, then 304 00:18:24,156 --> 00:18:26,276 Speaker 1: it's like, well, ay, it tells you that's a good 305 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:29,716 Speaker 1: reason to be stressed, but be it also says, you know, 306 00:18:30,316 --> 00:18:33,036 Speaker 1: all right, we'll go get it go do it, And 307 00:18:33,196 --> 00:18:35,996 Speaker 1: that's a piece of just kind of like acknowledging that 308 00:18:36,036 --> 00:18:38,676 Speaker 1: type of stress and welcoming it, because then you're like, oh, 309 00:18:38,716 --> 00:18:41,596 Speaker 1: I'm pumped up. What am I doing? I'm changing the world. 310 00:18:41,876 --> 00:18:46,796 Speaker 1: I'm feeling right now just hearing you just that process, 311 00:18:47,196 --> 00:18:51,076 Speaker 1: just that process makes a big difference. I really love that, Medupe, 312 00:18:51,116 --> 00:18:53,636 Speaker 1: because as you were sharing this, I related to that 313 00:18:53,676 --> 00:18:56,396 Speaker 1: early stress and I was thinking to myself that, damn 314 00:18:56,396 --> 00:18:59,916 Speaker 1: well deserves stress. That situation definitely desert stress because Medupe 315 00:19:00,036 --> 00:19:03,236 Speaker 1: is changing the world, and so it certainly seems like 316 00:19:03,276 --> 00:19:06,436 Speaker 1: that lecture carries significance and importance because look at all 317 00:19:06,476 --> 00:19:10,516 Speaker 1: these extremely positive downstream consequences, right And the more I 318 00:19:10,596 --> 00:19:12,556 Speaker 1: do that, then it tells me, like, I don't have 319 00:19:12,596 --> 00:19:15,276 Speaker 1: to be a jerk. Yeah, share more about that, because 320 00:19:15,316 --> 00:19:18,676 Speaker 1: obviously stress does not just have internal consequences. It can 321 00:19:18,716 --> 00:19:20,996 Speaker 1: have a lot of external consequences on our loved ones 322 00:19:20,996 --> 00:19:22,876 Speaker 1: and the people we care about. So I'd love to 323 00:19:22,876 --> 00:19:24,636 Speaker 1: dig into that a bit more. I'm sure that's something 324 00:19:24,716 --> 00:19:27,756 Speaker 1: a lot of people can resonate with. Yes, one of 325 00:19:27,756 --> 00:19:30,116 Speaker 1: the first things I tell people to do is to 326 00:19:30,156 --> 00:19:33,476 Speaker 1: acknowledge your typical reactions to stress. What are their emotions, 327 00:19:33,916 --> 00:19:37,476 Speaker 1: what are their behaviors, and what's their physiology? And the 328 00:19:37,556 --> 00:19:40,836 Speaker 1: behaviors one is really important because a it serves as 329 00:19:40,836 --> 00:19:43,076 Speaker 1: a signal when you are going for the potato chips, 330 00:19:43,156 --> 00:19:46,076 Speaker 1: the wine and yelling at your partner, that probably means 331 00:19:46,076 --> 00:19:48,876 Speaker 1: you're stressed. So now do an inventory about what you 332 00:19:48,956 --> 00:19:51,876 Speaker 1: need to do about it. And the reason why it's 333 00:19:51,916 --> 00:19:54,596 Speaker 1: really important for me to always kind of go back 334 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:57,316 Speaker 1: and ask myself why something matters? Is it Ultimately none 335 00:19:57,356 --> 00:20:00,356 Speaker 1: of us wants to do those destructive behaviors to ourselves 336 00:20:00,396 --> 00:20:03,396 Speaker 1: and to others. And so when you keep asking yourself 337 00:20:03,396 --> 00:20:05,476 Speaker 1: why and you understand the bigger picture, one of the 338 00:20:05,476 --> 00:20:08,356 Speaker 1: things it does, it's like I need that source of 339 00:20:08,396 --> 00:20:10,676 Speaker 1: support to hel we change the world. So I think 340 00:20:10,716 --> 00:20:13,796 Speaker 1: it increases your ability to relate to others in a 341 00:20:13,876 --> 00:20:16,756 Speaker 1: way that can maybe help you in what you're trying 342 00:20:16,756 --> 00:20:20,076 Speaker 1: to achieve, versus them being a distraction that's preventing you 343 00:20:20,556 --> 00:20:23,356 Speaker 1: from doing what you need to achieve effectively. Yeah, this 344 00:20:23,396 --> 00:20:26,276 Speaker 1: is so interesting because you know you initially defined stress 345 00:20:26,356 --> 00:20:29,756 Speaker 1: as the demands of the situation exceed your resources to cope. 346 00:20:29,756 --> 00:20:31,876 Speaker 1: And I think what I'm hearing from you is we 347 00:20:31,956 --> 00:20:34,516 Speaker 1: often have more resources than we think, we're just really 348 00:20:34,516 --> 00:20:37,156 Speaker 1: hesitant to ask for them, to admit that we actually 349 00:20:37,196 --> 00:20:39,836 Speaker 1: need that kind of support in those resources. And so 350 00:20:40,196 --> 00:20:43,236 Speaker 1: when we think through this lens, which is my stress 351 00:20:43,236 --> 00:20:46,556 Speaker 1: has a purpose because I really care about these end outcomes, 352 00:20:46,796 --> 00:20:49,116 Speaker 1: it can lead us to feel less sheepish about asking 353 00:20:49,116 --> 00:20:51,516 Speaker 1: a friend for help, asking a loved one if they're 354 00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:53,796 Speaker 1: willing to give us a hand. It's hard for all 355 00:20:53,796 --> 00:20:55,836 Speaker 1: of us to ask people for help. It's one of 356 00:20:55,836 --> 00:20:59,636 Speaker 1: the hardest things. And what's interesting is when we don't 357 00:20:59,636 --> 00:21:02,996 Speaker 1: ask somebody for help, it's often because there is something 358 00:21:03,036 --> 00:21:07,036 Speaker 1: that we're uncertain about, or feel threatened about or worried about. 359 00:21:07,596 --> 00:21:09,316 Speaker 1: One of the ways I interpret what you're saying, is 360 00:21:09,316 --> 00:21:13,436 Speaker 1: it when you kind of reframe your stress, the people 361 00:21:13,636 --> 00:21:18,836 Speaker 1: that seem like demands actually become resources. Yes, you can 362 00:21:18,956 --> 00:21:22,796 Speaker 1: view them more as resources versus as demands. You go 363 00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:25,276 Speaker 1: from thinking of it as the person who's taking away 364 00:21:25,396 --> 00:21:28,916 Speaker 1: from my ability to prepare for class to the person 365 00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:31,916 Speaker 1: who is helping me and can help me in what 366 00:21:32,036 --> 00:21:34,756 Speaker 1: I need to do to make this difference in the 367 00:21:34,796 --> 00:21:39,796 Speaker 1: lives of others. Oh, that's so nice. You know you've 368 00:21:39,796 --> 00:21:42,716 Speaker 1: taught us how changing our attitudes towards stress can lead 369 00:21:42,756 --> 00:21:45,516 Speaker 1: to better outcomes, and also how it is that we 370 00:21:45,556 --> 00:21:48,116 Speaker 1: can cultivate this kind of mindset. But of course, there 371 00:21:48,116 --> 00:21:51,676 Speaker 1: are lots of situations where we overshoot and a shift 372 00:21:51,676 --> 00:21:54,556 Speaker 1: in mindset might not be enough to tamp down that response. 373 00:21:55,116 --> 00:21:58,716 Speaker 1: So what other techniques would you recommend to help us 374 00:21:59,116 --> 00:22:02,476 Speaker 1: to just lower our stress response overall in these kinds 375 00:22:02,476 --> 00:22:04,116 Speaker 1: of situations. What are the types of things that you 376 00:22:04,196 --> 00:22:10,676 Speaker 1: do do pay to manage your stress? So I am 377 00:22:10,716 --> 00:22:13,556 Speaker 1: I'm a big meditator, darn. I was hoping you wouldn't 378 00:22:13,556 --> 00:22:17,316 Speaker 1: say meditation. I know, I know, and I couldn't at 379 00:22:17,356 --> 00:22:21,436 Speaker 1: one point too, you know. And I remember, like when 380 00:22:21,436 --> 00:22:24,076 Speaker 1: I was first trying to meditate, I just fall asleep 381 00:22:24,116 --> 00:22:28,316 Speaker 1: each time, like give me five minutes. I am out immediately. 382 00:22:29,236 --> 00:22:32,076 Speaker 1: But I realized that I really need to slow my 383 00:22:32,116 --> 00:22:36,036 Speaker 1: mind down. You know, there's so much firing that for 384 00:22:36,116 --> 00:22:39,036 Speaker 1: me when I sit and I'm just present first thing 385 00:22:39,036 --> 00:22:42,876 Speaker 1: in the morning, that allows me to just have a 386 00:22:42,916 --> 00:22:45,396 Speaker 1: different response to the many things that will come my 387 00:22:45,436 --> 00:22:47,876 Speaker 1: way during the day. And I say that, and I 388 00:22:47,916 --> 00:22:50,956 Speaker 1: don't like sounding woo woo like I don't like sounding 389 00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:54,276 Speaker 1: like that person meditation is science based, so there's nothing 390 00:22:54,276 --> 00:22:56,676 Speaker 1: woo about it. I have learned in my life that 391 00:22:56,716 --> 00:23:00,076 Speaker 1: it's something that I need because it slows me down 392 00:23:00,156 --> 00:23:03,516 Speaker 1: and it's been so helpful. Taking out some time to 393 00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:06,276 Speaker 1: just kind of be present with yourself helps you to 394 00:23:06,436 --> 00:23:10,836 Speaker 1: think clearly and act deliberately instead of being reactive. So 395 00:23:11,116 --> 00:23:14,516 Speaker 1: one of the types of meditations I engage in focuses 396 00:23:14,556 --> 00:23:17,156 Speaker 1: on body scanning. So you start with your head and 397 00:23:17,236 --> 00:23:21,836 Speaker 1: you scan and you just notice each of your bodily sensations. 398 00:23:22,076 --> 00:23:25,756 Speaker 1: Because the idea behind this is that any reaction we 399 00:23:25,836 --> 00:23:31,836 Speaker 1: typically have is preceded by a physical sensation, and so 400 00:23:31,956 --> 00:23:35,476 Speaker 1: if we can detect and be good at understanding or 401 00:23:35,636 --> 00:23:42,156 Speaker 1: feeling our sensations, then that's preempting are reacting immediately. And 402 00:23:42,196 --> 00:23:45,556 Speaker 1: so I body scan regularly and I find it to 403 00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 1: be incredibly helpful. The other thing, honestly, it's just taking 404 00:23:51,276 --> 00:23:55,276 Speaker 1: a moment to breathe. That minute that I find myself 405 00:23:55,316 --> 00:23:56,876 Speaker 1: like I'm overwhelmed and I have this and that to 406 00:23:56,916 --> 00:24:04,676 Speaker 1: do when the this isn't working whatever, stop breathe, breathe, 407 00:24:05,556 --> 00:24:11,836 Speaker 1: just breathe, and it just slows things down in a 408 00:24:11,996 --> 00:24:14,996 Speaker 1: unique way that then lets you say Okay, how am 409 00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:18,556 Speaker 1: I feeling right now? Let me take an inventory. That's 410 00:24:18,596 --> 00:24:20,676 Speaker 1: what I often do. I need to pause and take 411 00:24:20,716 --> 00:24:26,596 Speaker 1: an inventory instead of just trying to push through. Stop 412 00:24:26,876 --> 00:24:32,036 Speaker 1: and pause. As you look into the future of stress research, 413 00:24:32,276 --> 00:24:35,276 Speaker 1: what excites you most? So? What nut are you? Are 414 00:24:35,276 --> 00:24:41,196 Speaker 1: you most hoping that researcher's crack. I really want people 415 00:24:41,316 --> 00:24:46,516 Speaker 1: to be better at understanding when they're stressed, because you 416 00:24:46,636 --> 00:24:49,396 Speaker 1: are the only person that's with you twenty four seven. 417 00:24:50,236 --> 00:24:52,916 Speaker 1: And so what I'm most excited about are some of 418 00:24:52,956 --> 00:24:57,756 Speaker 1: the technologies that will allow people to notice when they're stressed. 419 00:24:58,236 --> 00:25:01,716 Speaker 1: Is there a buzzing thing on your finger that tells 420 00:25:01,756 --> 00:25:04,156 Speaker 1: you that your blood pressure is super high right now? 421 00:25:04,276 --> 00:25:08,276 Speaker 1: Pay attention. Is there some type of device that is 422 00:25:08,316 --> 00:25:12,316 Speaker 1: telling you, here's what your cardiovascular reactivity is looking like. 423 00:25:12,436 --> 00:25:16,076 Speaker 1: Right now, there's a spike right here. Breathe a little bit. 424 00:25:17,396 --> 00:25:22,676 Speaker 1: And so, as technology develops and can even kind of 425 00:25:22,716 --> 00:25:24,956 Speaker 1: help us in noticing some of these things and can 426 00:25:25,396 --> 00:25:26,876 Speaker 1: just kind of like I think it is like that 427 00:25:26,916 --> 00:25:29,756 Speaker 1: blinking light that says, hey, pay attention, then I think 428 00:25:29,756 --> 00:25:31,996 Speaker 1: that will help us in being able to give ourselves 429 00:25:31,996 --> 00:25:35,596 Speaker 1: what we need, and that ultimately means it will be 430 00:25:35,636 --> 00:25:38,916 Speaker 1: healthier and happier. So that's interesting because I feel like 431 00:25:38,996 --> 00:25:42,156 Speaker 1: I'm sort of excited about technology, and I want to 432 00:25:42,156 --> 00:25:44,436 Speaker 1: get your thoughts on this, because on the one hand, 433 00:25:44,476 --> 00:25:47,036 Speaker 1: I think that kind of self awareness and understanding is 434 00:25:47,076 --> 00:25:50,476 Speaker 1: so critical. On the other hand, we're trying to measure 435 00:25:50,676 --> 00:25:54,076 Speaker 1: so much, and all these measurements are also just proxies 436 00:25:54,116 --> 00:25:58,916 Speaker 1: of stress. Right. Too much vigilance around our physiological states 437 00:25:58,956 --> 00:26:02,276 Speaker 1: and or our mental states can breed almost a new 438 00:26:02,356 --> 00:26:05,636 Speaker 1: kind of anxiety, like a meta layer of anxiety. Do 439 00:26:05,676 --> 00:26:08,676 Speaker 1: you feel in any way that there's limits to how 440 00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:11,356 Speaker 1: much we should be in tune with our body and minds, 441 00:26:11,356 --> 00:26:14,396 Speaker 1: because at a certain point it can be so excessive, 442 00:26:14,476 --> 00:26:16,596 Speaker 1: right where you just forget, like, you know what, I 443 00:26:16,636 --> 00:26:19,676 Speaker 1: just need to kind of exist too, And I don't 444 00:26:19,676 --> 00:26:22,276 Speaker 1: need my little phone or my watch or my ring 445 00:26:22,316 --> 00:26:24,396 Speaker 1: buzzing at me telling me that I'm stressed in any 446 00:26:24,436 --> 00:26:26,716 Speaker 1: given moment because I'm just you know, I'm hanging out 447 00:26:26,716 --> 00:26:28,556 Speaker 1: with my friends and I don't know, maybe I don't 448 00:26:28,556 --> 00:26:33,236 Speaker 1: want the biofeedback. Yes. The thing about stress research, and 449 00:26:33,476 --> 00:26:36,436 Speaker 1: I guess much research, is that you have to know 450 00:26:36,556 --> 00:26:40,236 Speaker 1: yourself and know what works for you and what doesn't. Yeah, 451 00:26:40,756 --> 00:26:43,396 Speaker 1: if you're the type of person where the constant monitoring 452 00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:46,796 Speaker 1: will be more stressful, then you shouldn't constantly monitor. But 453 00:26:46,876 --> 00:26:49,396 Speaker 1: if you're the type of person where the monitoring makes 454 00:26:49,436 --> 00:26:52,436 Speaker 1: you say, ooh, I only got two hours of sleep 455 00:26:52,476 --> 00:26:53,916 Speaker 1: last night, but I need to get more and I 456 00:26:53,916 --> 00:26:57,196 Speaker 1: know them and that helps you and helps change your behavior, 457 00:26:57,276 --> 00:26:59,916 Speaker 1: then do it. So for me, I am one of 458 00:26:59,916 --> 00:27:02,036 Speaker 1: those people like I'm hard enough on myself, so I 459 00:27:02,036 --> 00:27:04,756 Speaker 1: don't need a buzzing thing. I need to be more gentle. 460 00:27:05,036 --> 00:27:07,356 Speaker 1: But how I use this technology is to say, like, 461 00:27:07,396 --> 00:27:11,676 Speaker 1: I'm kind of feeling tired. How much rest did I get? Oh? Wow, 462 00:27:11,756 --> 00:27:14,676 Speaker 1: I've been in the danger zone for five days. Let 463 00:27:14,716 --> 00:27:18,356 Speaker 1: me do something that will remind me to get in 464 00:27:18,436 --> 00:27:23,156 Speaker 1: bed earlier. So if you can use it lovingly and 465 00:27:23,556 --> 00:27:27,716 Speaker 1: gently in a way that will help you behave in 466 00:27:27,756 --> 00:27:31,196 Speaker 1: a healthy way for you, that's what I'm talking about. 467 00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:34,756 Speaker 1: I also wouldn't want us to overuse our technology and 468 00:27:34,956 --> 00:27:37,356 Speaker 1: rely on it to tell us the things that we 469 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:39,556 Speaker 1: need to rely on our minds and bodies to tell us. 470 00:27:40,036 --> 00:27:43,356 Speaker 1: I just think of it as another metric to use 471 00:27:43,676 --> 00:27:47,156 Speaker 1: to paint a holistic picture of what's going on with you, 472 00:27:47,556 --> 00:27:49,796 Speaker 1: and because it's so hard to be in tune with 473 00:27:49,836 --> 00:27:52,196 Speaker 1: what our bodies you're doing, because we've ignored our bodies 474 00:27:52,236 --> 00:27:55,756 Speaker 1: for so long, these technologies give us greater insight that 475 00:27:55,876 --> 00:27:59,156 Speaker 1: we wouldn't ordinarily have. Yeah, I love that. I think 476 00:27:59,156 --> 00:28:01,876 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So even doing this work for a while, 477 00:28:01,956 --> 00:28:05,276 Speaker 1: And I wonder, in your years of doing stress research, 478 00:28:05,356 --> 00:28:09,356 Speaker 1: whether there's any example that's particularly salient for you where 479 00:28:09,396 --> 00:28:11,916 Speaker 1: someone reached out to you and said, madupay, you changed 480 00:28:11,956 --> 00:28:14,076 Speaker 1: the game for me, like you really really helped me 481 00:28:14,596 --> 00:28:17,596 Speaker 1: manage the stressful situation or change my mindset. Are there 482 00:28:17,636 --> 00:28:20,596 Speaker 1: any personal testimonials that you can share with us so 483 00:28:20,636 --> 00:28:23,116 Speaker 1: we can see the impact of your research in the wild. 484 00:28:23,916 --> 00:28:26,796 Speaker 1: You know, the biggest example I have is a couple 485 00:28:26,836 --> 00:28:28,916 Speaker 1: of years ago, I was talking to a friend and 486 00:28:28,996 --> 00:28:32,596 Speaker 1: she was super super stressed and I literally just asked her, 487 00:28:32,636 --> 00:28:35,316 Speaker 1: what do you need? And she said, I need somebody 488 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:39,956 Speaker 1: to accompany me to walk through of her home because 489 00:28:39,956 --> 00:28:42,916 Speaker 1: she was closing on it the next day. And you 490 00:28:42,996 --> 00:28:46,676 Speaker 1: know that's stressful, Like you're worried, like am I getting 491 00:28:46,756 --> 00:28:48,796 Speaker 1: ripped off? Is the microwave? Going to work? Is that? 492 00:28:48,996 --> 00:28:52,676 Speaker 1: And just having somebody else with you to help out 493 00:28:52,676 --> 00:28:56,356 Speaker 1: with that is huge, and sometimes you'd think you have 494 00:28:56,396 --> 00:28:58,476 Speaker 1: to do it by yourself and then no one's going 495 00:28:58,516 --> 00:29:01,396 Speaker 1: to have time for you, yea. Or everyone has busy schedules, 496 00:29:01,396 --> 00:29:04,956 Speaker 1: which they do, but can you at least ask first 497 00:29:05,516 --> 00:29:07,836 Speaker 1: and let someone say no. But more often than not, 498 00:29:07,916 --> 00:29:11,836 Speaker 1: people will make it work because if you've cultivated those relationships, 499 00:29:12,196 --> 00:29:14,436 Speaker 1: they'll move things around their schedule to be there for you. 500 00:29:15,116 --> 00:29:17,356 Speaker 1: And that sticks with me because it's something that I 501 00:29:17,396 --> 00:29:20,316 Speaker 1: also need to remind myself to do. Ask myself, what 502 00:29:20,356 --> 00:29:23,996 Speaker 1: do I need right now? What do I need? It's simple. 503 00:29:24,996 --> 00:29:27,476 Speaker 1: So many of the answers to our stress are within us, 504 00:29:28,076 --> 00:30:02,356 Speaker 1: and we just need to ask. We just need to ask. Hey, 505 00:30:02,396 --> 00:30:05,596 Speaker 1: thanks so much for listening. Next week's episode, we hear 506 00:30:05,676 --> 00:30:09,996 Speaker 1: from comedian Hussan Minhaj. In our conversation, Huson gets candid 507 00:30:09,996 --> 00:30:13,196 Speaker 1: about the downsides of his sudden rise in popularity and 508 00:30:13,276 --> 00:30:16,876 Speaker 1: how it's fed an unhealthy obsession with being liked. He 509 00:30:16,916 --> 00:30:20,796 Speaker 1: tells me he's now reconsidering his future in comedy. Being 510 00:30:20,836 --> 00:30:22,836 Speaker 1: an artist is who I am. I do have this 511 00:30:23,036 --> 00:30:25,996 Speaker 1: need to express myself, but I have to find new 512 00:30:26,036 --> 00:30:31,076 Speaker 1: mediums as my life continues. That are less and less 513 00:30:31,116 --> 00:30:33,956 Speaker 1: and less attached to whether people like me or not. 514 00:30:44,116 --> 00:30:47,116 Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is created, written an executive 515 00:30:47,156 --> 00:30:50,836 Speaker 1: produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change Family includes 516 00:30:50,836 --> 00:30:54,916 Speaker 1: our showrunner Tyler Green, our senior editor Kate Parkinson Morgan, 517 00:30:55,316 --> 00:30:59,916 Speaker 1: our sound engineer Andrew Vestola, and our associate producer Sarah McCrae. 518 00:31:00,596 --> 00:31:03,876 Speaker 1: Louise Scara wrote our delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith 519 00:31:03,956 --> 00:31:07,316 Speaker 1: helped arrange the vocals. A Slight Change of Plans is 520 00:31:07,316 --> 00:31:10,756 Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries, so big thanks to everyone there, 521 00:31:11,356 --> 00:31:14,516 Speaker 1: and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. 522 00:31:16,196 --> 00:31:18,716 Speaker 1: You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram 523 00:31:18,756 --> 00:31:44,476 Speaker 1: at doctor Maya Shucker. Everything in moderation, That's what this 524 00:31:44,556 --> 00:31:50,396 Speaker 1: is about, except for Girl Scout cookies, but exactment. There's 525 00:31:50,436 --> 00:31:51,756 Speaker 1: no moderation there. Yes,