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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news tonight. Missing mom

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Speaker 1: Suzanne's remains found miles away from home, but the killer

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Speaker 1: thought that would never happen. Suzanne found shot full of

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Speaker 1: animal trank to bring down rhinos. You heard me right,

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Speaker 1: strong enough to bring down rhinos, an elephant, a giraffe,

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Speaker 1: a bear shot into the body of one hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty pounds woman. This as Suzanne's hubby reportedly sneaks into

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Speaker 1: her invite only memorial. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Oh Suzanne, if anyone is out there you can hear

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Speaker 2: this that has you. Please, We'll do whatever it takes

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Speaker 2: to bring you back. We love you when you miss you.

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Speaker 1: Your girl's eView, No questions asked, however much they want.

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Speaker 2: I will do whatever it takes to get you back

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Speaker 2: from me. I love you and I'll.

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Speaker 3: Let you back.

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Speaker 1: So Bay, really, will you really do everything it takes

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Speaker 1: to bring her home? Well, how come you didn't tell

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Speaker 1: police that her number one favorite sweatshirt was missing? And

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Speaker 1: that's what your wife was probably wearing when she disappeared.

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Speaker 1: Aka WI was the Murder Guys with Me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: We know that Suzanne shot full and I mean full

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Speaker 1: of animal trank. Trank I have now learned, thanks to

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Speaker 1: my friend, the zoologist Grace Stafford, is strong enough to

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Speaker 1: bring down a rhinocerous. Okay, but let me just set

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Speaker 1: the table before I go to doctor Gray Stafford. Joining

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Speaker 1: me also is renowned forensic professor Joseph Scott Morgan, author

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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of a wildly

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Speaker 1: popular podcast, Bodybags That Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott for

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Speaker 1: Gray's understanding, he deals with animals that don't typically murder

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Speaker 1: each other. Could you explain how we know Suzanne is

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Speaker 1: shot with so much animal TRNK that was still in

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Speaker 1: her system years later.

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Speaker 4: This is the fascinating part about this case and that

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Speaker 4: very abbreviated autopsy report that we had Nancy, and that

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Speaker 4: is this concentration of BAM. This animal TRNK was actually

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Speaker 4: located in the head of her femur, which is a

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Speaker 4: long bone in our leg, at the top where it

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Speaker 4: joins in to.

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Speaker 1: The hip socket.

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Speaker 4: They actually cut the top of that off of these

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Speaker 4: skeletal remains, and they were able to render it down

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Speaker 4: to the point where they could extract this chemical compound

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Speaker 4: contained therein. That was probably for me, one of the

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Speaker 4: Biggas reveals. But the problem is is that right now

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Speaker 4: we only have a qualitative suggestion that it is there.

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Speaker 4: We know nothing about the quantitative level.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know this, Joe Scott Morgan. I know that

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Speaker 1: as when you shoot a rhino, a rhinoceros. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go to Gray on this, you know, Gray Stafford.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer, all right. Joe Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: he's a death investigator. Joining me right now is a

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Speaker 1: renowned expert in his field. Great Stafford, host of podcasts

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Speaker 1: Zoo Logic, Wildlife Expert, Animal Trainer. He's a zoologist. He's

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Speaker 1: written a book, Zuomility Keeper, Tales of Training with Positive Reinforcement.

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Speaker 1: Grace Stafford. I'm very confused about why a sedative, a

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Speaker 1: tranquilizer powerful enough to literally bring down an elephant or

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Speaker 1: a charging rhinoceros or a bear, would be used on

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty pound woman who was just recovering

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Speaker 1: from cancer. The reason I believe she was shot with

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Speaker 1: a tankful of this stuff is because, just like with animals,

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Speaker 1: it wears off and a pretty short period of time,

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Speaker 1: so it wears off and dissipates out of the system.

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Speaker 1: She had so much in her system they had to

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Speaker 1: cut off saw and half the top of her leg

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Speaker 1: bone to get out DNA, and that is where they

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Speaker 1: found the TRNK. What is b brother M mother A alpha?

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, it's a three drug cocktail. There are a

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Speaker 5: lot of different sedatives and tranquilidders that veterinarians and wildlife

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Speaker 5: managers use, but some of them are more safe than others,

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Speaker 5: Some are more effective than others, some are quicker acting

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Speaker 5: than others in some work in certain species and don't

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Speaker 5: work in other species. All that well, So BAM is

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Speaker 5: a safer opioid, but it is an opioid and it

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Speaker 5: can cause all sorts of side effects that can be

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Speaker 5: dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what

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Speaker 5: they're doing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me just ask you a couple of street

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Speaker 1: vernacular questions, doctor Gray, Stafford Gray, isn't true. Civilians aren't

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Speaker 1: supposed to have BAM. And here is my attempt at

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Speaker 1: pronouncing beutrophenol, metadamidine, metadamidine and a zaprn. Regular people are

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Speaker 1: not supposed to be walking with this in their dart gun.

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Speaker 5: You're absolutely right. These are controlled substances, and they are

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Speaker 5: opioid derivatives or analogs or synthetics. And we know what

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Speaker 5: happens with opioids, right, We've got a pend a crisis

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Speaker 5: with fetanol and so forth. So yes, these don't belong

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Speaker 5: in the hands of lay people like you and me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. I'm not going to take

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Speaker 1: the trends for a walk down Fifth Avenue or B

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Speaker 1: Street Street. If somebody can walk by with a TRNK

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Speaker 1: gun over their shoulder full of BAM, B brother A

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Speaker 1: Alpha M mother, no, I'm not, because it's strong enough

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Speaker 1: to take down literally a wild animal. Imagine a rhino

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Speaker 1: charging straight at you, and that's what Suzanne is shot

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Speaker 1: full of.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 5: And some of these drugs are very potent, so you

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Speaker 5: don't need a lot of volume. I mean you imagine

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Speaker 5: a rhinoceros is two pounds or more. Certain drugs you

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Speaker 5: would need large volumes of sedative to subdue them. But

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Speaker 5: some of these, like BAM, are more concentrated, more potent,

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Speaker 5: so you need less volume, which is important if you're

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Speaker 5: darting an animal. Because you can't sit there with a

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Speaker 5: large plunger and a large volume and hope that you're

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Speaker 5: going to get it all on board.

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Speaker 1: How quickly does it leave an animal, say a rhino system.

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Speaker 6: Well, some of these.

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Speaker 5: Drugs can be reversed, so they can be reversed rather quickly,

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Speaker 5: but if they wear off, it could take minutes to

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Speaker 5: hours or longer.

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Speaker 1: You mean, like with narcan correct.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, there are. There are different drugs that can

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Speaker 5: reverse the effects of the individual drugs within this cocktail,

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Speaker 5: and that's often the case when it's applied by a veterinarian.

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Speaker 5: Once we're done treating an animal, we reverse it, but

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Speaker 5: still the animal has some lingering effects for several minutes.

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Speaker 1: I remember something about you, doctor Stafford. When I first

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Speaker 1: met you, we were showing the twins a baby, I

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Speaker 1: mean baby white tiger, just as small as an actual

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Speaker 1: human baby. And at first I wouldn't let the twins

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Speaker 1: get near it because I didn't know what was going

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Speaker 1: to happen. And he said, it's fine, they can get

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Speaker 1: near it, and so we got close to it. And

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Speaker 1: I remember that in that facility there was a trank gun.

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Speaker 1: I looked at it and I recognized it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: regular gun, and I figured out what it was. How

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Speaker 1: do you get your hands on this powerful tranquilizer? How

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Speaker 1: would a civilian get their hands on this kind of trunk.

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Speaker 5: A prescription by a licensed veterinarian or medical doctor in

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Speaker 5: the case of human use, So I'm not exactly sure

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Speaker 5: how an average person would get this through legal means.

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Speaker 5: The guns themselves are harmless, and we keep those in position,

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Speaker 5: but the drugs themselves are under lock and key until needed.

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Speaker 1: Guys, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 7: According to a twenty twenty one affidavit, Barry Morphew admitted

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Speaker 7: to police that he frequently used BAM and other tranquilizers

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Speaker 7: to sedate deer to remove antlers for his hunting business.

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Speaker 7: BAM is the commonly used abbreviation for beutrophenol as zepperone

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Speaker 7: and metadomitting as zepperone is used as a sedative for elephants, rhinos,

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Speaker 7: and giraffes, while medetomitting facilitates a mobilization of large carnivores

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Speaker 7: and great apes. These same three drugs found in the

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Speaker 7: bones of Suzanne Morphew. The autopsy report says Suzanne died

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Speaker 7: by homicide by undetermined means in the setting of beutrophenol

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Speaker 7: as zepperone and medeto midting BAM intoxication.

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Speaker 1: So we know that Harry Morphew admits that he uses BAM,

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Speaker 1: betrophinal a, zapron and meta my dean he has them. Wow,

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Speaker 1: what a co inky dink. He has the very same

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Speaker 1: thing that turns up in Susanne Morphew's system. We are

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Speaker 1: analyzing the autopsy report and bringing in experts to make

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Speaker 1: sense of what we're learning. Wow, that's a coincidence, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not asking you to pass judgment or make

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Speaker 1: a legal or evidentiary conclusion, doctor Gray Stafford. But it

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Speaker 1: would be like me walking up to my grandma and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you can you score some myth for me? She

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Speaker 1: would have no idea how to get her hands on

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Speaker 1: a head of myth than the man in the moon.

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Speaker 1: So how just like you, Gray, you're saying, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how a person would get their hands on rhino tranquilizers,

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Speaker 1: but somebody did crime stories with Nancy Grace Guys joining

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Speaker 1: me a renowned expert and author, Doctor Gray Stafford, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to open it up to the rest of our panel,

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Speaker 1: our All Star panel, as we try to decipher what

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Speaker 1: we are learning. It's not just that the husband, Barry Morphew,

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Speaker 1: admitted that he had this very powerful rhino tranquilizer civilians

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Speaker 1: are not supposed to have their hands on. He also admits,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to let Lauren Colin correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. I want you to take a listen to this, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: that oh, he may have accidentally, on purpose, thrown away

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Speaker 1: the rhino tranquilizer and immediately after his wife goes missing. Listen.

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Speaker 7: A search of Morphuse property turns up empty darts, a

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Speaker 7: dart package, and a dart needle. Morphuse questioned about a

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Speaker 7: dart needle cap found in the laundry room dryer with

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Speaker 7: wash sheets, Morphew says he has no idea how it

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Speaker 7: got there, claiming the last time he used band tranquilizers

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Speaker 7: in April, he shot from a window near the breezeway,

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Speaker 7: the same breezeway near the spot Suzanne with sunbathing the

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Speaker 7: day she died. A one hundred and thirty page arrest

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Speaker 7: affidavit details Morphuse involvement with the same tranquilizers found in

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Speaker 7: Suzanne's body. He admits to frequently handling these drugs and

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Speaker 7: says it makes him look bad. When asked about the

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Speaker 7: tranquilizer cap and the dryer, Morphew admits it looks suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin is joining me, investigative journalist, host of The

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Speaker 1: Outlier podcast. Lauren, thank you for being with us. Let

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Speaker 1: me understand this. So Suzanne morphus remains, their skeletonized remains.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about that sweatshirt you

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Speaker 1: and Joe Scott morgan skeletal remains are found miles and

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Speaker 1: miles away from the home beat the killer thought that

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Speaker 1: would never happen. And when someone put Barrie's alleged location

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Speaker 1: we're referring to the husband, Barry Morphew. We see where

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Speaker 1: her remains were found, we see their residents miles and

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Speaker 1: miles away, We see where her bike and helmet were

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Speaker 1: found in two separate locations, and we see Morphew's alleged location. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold it, hold everything. Is this right? That Barry Morphew

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Speaker 1: admits number one, that he uses rhinoceros tranquilizers and that

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Speaker 1: he happened to be using the same tranquilizer that was

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Speaker 1: found in Susanne Morphew's kneecap in her body in her DNA,

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Speaker 1: and he admits in a one hundred and thirty plus

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Speaker 1: page Affidavid that yeah, I threw all away that animal

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Speaker 1: train right after Susanne went missing. Why why to do that?

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Speaker 1: If you need it for your business? Why did you

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Speaker 1: throw it away? I mean, I'm no way throw away

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Speaker 1: this microphone right here or the cell phone right here,

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Speaker 1: because I nade them, I named them to work. So

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Speaker 1: why did he suddenly the day his wife goes missing

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Speaker 1: or honor about throw away all his animal trunk which

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Speaker 1: he's not supposed to have anyway? Explain that, Timmy, Lauren Cotlin.

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Speaker 8: You're exactly right, Nancy, and you you nailed it.

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Speaker 9: I know he is not considered a suspect right now.

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Speaker 8: But the empty trnk right found in the dryer, and

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Speaker 8: then you have the trank gun he threw away which

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Speaker 8: he needs for work, very suspicious.

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Speaker 9: And then the fact that the trunk was actually.

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Speaker 8: Found tangled up in his sheets, in his daughter sheets,

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Speaker 8: who's a weight at college, in the dryer. I mean,

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Speaker 8: I don't know about you, but washing sheets are a

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Speaker 8: big pain in the butt.

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Speaker 9: I don't really wash sheets that I don't have.

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Speaker 8: To, so that in a flag for me, and then

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Speaker 8: something else about so.

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Speaker 9: Watch where she was found.

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Speaker 8: That the bones that were found that were obviously Suzanne's.

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Speaker 9: I mean, this is a very secluded area. This is

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Speaker 9: called the bone yard.

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Speaker 8: So whoever did this, they most likely thought that these

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Speaker 8: remains would never be found.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Colin, You're absolutely correct. Listen.

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Speaker 10: Morphew says he has no idea how the needle cap

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Speaker 10: got in the dryer. He said the last time he

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Speaker 10: used BAM tranquilizers and shot from the window near the

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Speaker 10: breezeway was in late April. Investigators asked more few whether

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Speaker 10: he might have thrown those tranquilizers away in one of

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Speaker 10: his five trash runs he made immediately after his wife disappeared.

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Speaker 10: After hearing, investigators tracked down surveillance video for McDonald's, a

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Speaker 10: bus stop, and a men's warehouse and actually saw morep

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Speaker 10: you throwing items into multiple trash receptacles. Morphew then says

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Speaker 10: he may have thrown some tranquilizer materials away.

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Speaker 1: Why did Barry Morphew, the husband, who is not a suspect,

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Speaker 1: has not been named a person of interest again. He

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Speaker 1: was charged earlier in Suzanne's death and then those charges

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Speaker 1: were dropped. Why is it when your wife goes missing

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Speaker 1: you turned into a neat Nick? He was so hell

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Speaker 1: bent on throwing away the trash he went to five

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Speaker 1: trash cans at McDonald's, a bus stop, at a men's warehouse.

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdunn ad joining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former

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Speaker 1: homicide detective, and hosts of a YouTube channel, The Interview Room.

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Speaker 1: That's where I found him during the Moscow, Idaho Quadruple

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Speaker 1: Slagh case. Chris mcdona, you think you've seen it all right,

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Speaker 1: Well you haven't. I bet you never had a case

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Speaker 1: with rhinoceros tranquilizer, did you. I didn't till now.

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Speaker 2: No, Nancy, I've never had a case where tranquilizer was utilized,

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Speaker 2: and that is a very creative way of, obviously to

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Speaker 2: incapacitating somebody. And the fact that he had experience with

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Speaker 2: it is just at the top of suspicion.

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Speaker 1: Can I just ask you a question on a personal note,

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdunna, I know you live with your wife aka

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Speaker 1: honey as you call her, but you may have to

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Speaker 1: take the trash out sometimes, you know, when I or

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Speaker 1: my husband take the trash out. We just walk to

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Speaker 1: the end of the driveway where we have the trash

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Speaker 1: cans hidden, and we put we don't go to McDonald's

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Speaker 1: or the bus stop. Oh please, let me see those

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Speaker 1: photos again. There's the bus stop, then there's a McDonald's,

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Speaker 1: then there's a men's warehouse. Oh my goodness. He was

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Speaker 1: certainly a neat neck. Check it out. All the way

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Speaker 1: through this parking lot, he's throwing trashway and then he admits,

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Speaker 1: does he not, that he may have thrown away the

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Speaker 1: animal tranquilizer paraphernalia the very day's wife goes missing.

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Speaker 11: Darn Yeah, go figure right, I mean here, you know,

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Speaker 11: he's got to make five trash runs. I mean how

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Speaker 11: many how many of us, just in normal everyday life

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Speaker 11: do we utilize, you know, five separate trash cans outside

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Speaker 11: of the trash cans that we have in our own garage,

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Speaker 11: potentially at our house. And and the fact that he's

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Speaker 11: thrown away boots, he's throwing away his mail because they

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Speaker 11: found some items in the hotel room and he mentions

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Speaker 11: it during their FBI interviews.

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Speaker 2: This is all very very high, highly suspicious activity and

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Speaker 2: to the point where the FBI went back, and they

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Speaker 2: pulled the video and they confronted her with him.

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Speaker 1: Joining you right now is high profile lawyer from the

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Speaker 1: Tate Law Group joining us out of Savannah. Mark Tate

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Speaker 1: is joining us now. I became familiar with Tate not

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Speaker 1: only because of his trial record, but during the Alex

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Speaker 1: Murdog double murder trial near Savannah. Mark Tate, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Could you give us in a nutshell?

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Speaker 1: This is not an appellate argument to the Georgia Supreme Court. Nutshell, Okay,

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Speaker 1: ping pong, Not just what exactly is circumstantial evidence?

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Speaker 3: Well, a circumstantial evidence is anything other than direct evidence.

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Speaker 3: And so if you are prying to that someone was

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Speaker 3: hiding something from being discovered by the police, then you

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Speaker 3: can argue that there's proof of that attempt to hide

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Speaker 3: by taking trash cans to multiple locations to get rid

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Speaker 3: of their contents. That would be circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence

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Speaker 3: would be someone's, for example, eyewitness testimony that I saw

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Speaker 3: this guy load his trash bags with tranquilizers and put

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Speaker 3: them directly in the McDonald's trash can. So you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of language that's grafted on the

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Speaker 3: notion of circumstantial evidence. But really, everything except direct evidence

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Speaker 3: is circumstantial evidence. It doesn't necessarily mean it's weaker, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily mean it's stronger. It's just something that is

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Speaker 3: evidence from which a jury can draw conclusions, you know,

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Speaker 3: so long as they're reasonable. And it allows a prosecutor

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Speaker 3: to argue in closing argument why there should be a conviction.

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Speaker 3: And it also because of the weakness that is generally

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Speaker 3: perceived in circumstantial evidence, it allows for defense lawyers.

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Speaker 1: To argue, Mark Tate, this is a yes, no lightning

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Speaker 1: around for you. Isn't it true that the black and

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Speaker 1: white letter of the law judges is struck the juries

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Speaker 1: before they go to deliberate, And one of those instructions

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Speaker 1: is circumstantial evidence can be as strong or probative as

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Speaker 1: direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence that's nothing to sneeze at. Everything

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Speaker 1: that's direct is either an eyewitness and by the way,

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Speaker 1: your example was circumstantial. Just because you see the husband

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Speaker 1: throwing away an animal tranquilizer and there's animal tranquilizer in

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Speaker 1: her body, that doesn't mean he killed her. It's circumstantial evidence.

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Speaker 1: Direct evidence would be an eyewitness to the crime. The

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Speaker 1: murder or DNA or maybe a fingerprint. All of that

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Speaker 1: would be direct evidence. But can I just throw a

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Speaker 1: hypothetical at you, Mark Tate, You deal with this every

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Speaker 1: single day in court where you earn all that money,

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Speaker 1: Mark te Bary Morphy, who is not a suspect in

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Speaker 1: this case. He has not been named to suspect a

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Speaker 1: person of interest this time. He admits to police. I've

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Speaker 1: read a one hundred and thirty page affidavit. He admits

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Speaker 1: he has bam amb torphenol, a zappron and meta demiding metademiding,

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Speaker 1: which is a rhinocerous tranquilizer. Civilians aren't supposed to have it.

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Speaker 1: He admits he has it. He admits he shot the

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Speaker 1: animal dark tranquilizer gun in the breezeway. We know that

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Speaker 1: Suzanne was sunbathing in that breezeway the day she went missing,

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Speaker 1: and we know that he admitted that he threw it

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Speaker 1: all away and that was on the day she went missing.

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Speaker 1: Would you call that circumstantial evidence because I would.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's circumstantial, Leven. It's very powerful evidence. Though

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Speaker 3: it links this man with all of the things that

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Speaker 3: were used apparently that were found on the remains that

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Speaker 3: had the hoodie that this young lady was wearing when

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Speaker 3: she was cooking dinner with her mother, you know, a

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Speaker 3: few months before she was dead or was killed or

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Speaker 3: went missing at that time. So this is really difficult

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Speaker 3: evidence I think for a lawyer to overcome for the defendant. However,

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Speaker 3: this guy does have apparently resources, and he has a

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Speaker 3: lot of money, and so that means he has the

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Speaker 3: ability to retain lawyers, retain experts, and really put the

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Speaker 3: state through everything they possibly can to prove guilt beyond

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Speaker 3: a reasonable doubt. And so it's not going to be

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Speaker 3: an unchallenging task for a prosecutor. There's no such thing

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Speaker 3: as a slam duck case. And if a defendant has resources,

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Speaker 3: they can mount a serious defense that will make the

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Speaker 3: state mount equally as serious as a prosecution. And remember,

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Speaker 3: he knows enough now not to talk to the police,

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Speaker 3: and police love it when suspects talk because they know

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Speaker 3: how to get them to confess, even when they're not

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Speaker 3: necessarily confessing.

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Speaker 6: Suzanne that maybe SEUs you get that up to the

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Speaker 6: road and then take.

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Speaker 9: The ceial over or call.

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Speaker 11: The husband, see what kind of bikes he had.

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Speaker 5: Slightly checking on it, can you try to call the

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Speaker 5: husband and see that type of bights she has.

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Speaker 1: Am I supposed to believe that Suzanne was riding her

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Speaker 1: bike along that stretch of highway. I was there and

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Speaker 1: it was so cold and the snow. We were looking

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Speaker 1: at that spot, and I supposed to believe that she

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Speaker 1: was riding along on her bike. Somebody shot her with

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Speaker 1: rhinoceros tranquilizer and she fell off. Then that person moved

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Speaker 1: her helmet miles away, and then her body's found miles

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Speaker 1: away from there. Wow, that looks staged. That looks stage,

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Speaker 1: the way that bike is placed there. That's for a

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Speaker 1: jury who would stage as scene. Let me remind everybody,

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Speaker 1: Barry Morphew, the husband, has not been named a suspect

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Speaker 1: or a person of interest. Just recently, after digging and

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Speaker 1: digging and digging through social media, we find posted on

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Speaker 1: Insta a shot of Suzanne Morpheu, the missing mom, and

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Speaker 1: she is wearing a gray Crista Butte hoodie that we

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Speaker 1: believe she was wearing at the time she was murdered

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Speaker 1: or she was placed in it. This photo is Suzanne

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Speaker 1: cooking breakfast with her mother in law. Surely in Suzanne's

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Speaker 1: slide up Colorado home in twenty eighteen. Tisha Leeway is

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Speaker 1: with me, very dear friend of Suzanne Morpheus, And I've

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Speaker 1: asked you in the past about how she would appear

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Speaker 1: when she came into your salon, and you always said, oh,

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Speaker 1: she would never wear like, you know, flip flops and

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Speaker 1: a sweatshirt, that she was always dressed up. Is that true?

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Speaker 9: Yes?

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Speaker 1: So you never saw her in this sweatshirt, did you?

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Speaker 12: No?

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Speaker 1: I didn't, Tisha Leeway. Let me ask you. Do you

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Speaker 1: have certain things you wear around the house that you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be caught dead in at the grocery store? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I do. I remember one night my son John David

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Speaker 1: had to asking a girl to Hoko homecoming and their

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Speaker 1: school they give the girl a poster in candies. We

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Speaker 1: had to go to Kroger at like midnight. I had

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Speaker 1: on my pajamas. I wore three pair of sunglasses the

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Speaker 1: whole time. Okay, that said Suzanne would never have gone

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Speaker 1: out in public in that sweatshirt. Would she know? Suzanne

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Speaker 1: didn't wear this out? And about what does that prove?

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Speaker 1: Just like you to she Lee Waite may not go

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Speaker 1: out in your pjs, she wouldn't go out and that

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Speaker 1: yet her body was found wearing that. Why? Why? Because

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Speaker 1: I would argue to a jury she was still home exactly,

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Speaker 1: that she was still home. And that's not all I

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Speaker 1: happen to know. This is one of her favorite sweatshirts.

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Speaker 1: What does this tell me? I'm going to go straight

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Speaker 1: out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University

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Speaker 1: and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Star

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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, you have

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Speaker 1: investigated well over one thousand death investigations. This is a

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Speaker 1: shirt she only woren't home that we know of. This

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Speaker 1: is a shirt that her body was found in. And

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Speaker 1: my husband, my boy, and girl would know if my

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Speaker 1: Fulton County Fire Department sweatshirt was gone. They would know.

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Speaker 1: I've had to call hotels across this country looking for

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Speaker 1: that sweatshirt. They would know if it was gone. But

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Speaker 1: I don't recall Barry Moore for you ever telling anybody

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Speaker 1: these clothes were missing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a signature of home, isn't it. You know

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Speaker 4: it's something that you have there. Kim my wife, she's

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Speaker 4: got a jack State sweatshirt that she exclusively wears. Wears

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Speaker 4: at home, and woe into me if I ever put

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Speaker 4: my hands on it, because it's like a blanket for her.

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Speaker 4: You know that she enjoys it's soft, it's familiar. But no,

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Speaker 4: she's not going to go wear it to the grocery

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Speaker 4: store or wherever. And that goes to the intimacy of

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Speaker 4: the environment that you're in. You know, if you're going

428
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 4: out to go for a ride or this sort of thing,

429
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 4: you're going to leave the house, You're probably not going

430
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 4: to go in your favorite sweatshirt, particularly in the temperatures there.

431
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: You're going to want something that's more layered. Perhaps that

432
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: is meant for working out in this is meant for comfort,

433
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: for lounging. But you know, Nancy, here's the interesting thing.

434
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 4: That sweatshirt can really tell a tale about what happened,

435
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 4: perhaps in the moments leading up to her death. Now

436
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 4: you have to factor in the sweatshirt is going to

437
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: be greatly degraded because of the location that was found

438
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 4: in those circumstances, But there could potentially be evidence on

439
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: that sweatshirt any kind of hole or as we refer

440
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 4: to it as a defect, perhaps in that sweatshirt where

441
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 4: it's something other than the natural decomposition of that sweatshirt

442
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 4: could be telling a tale that's going to be interesting

443
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 4: for the criminalists back at the crime lab to do

444
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 4: their assessment on. We don't have that report yet.

445
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Tisha Leeway, a

446
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: very dear friend of Suzanne Morphew. Tish, you have been

447
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: very open about your feelings regarding this case. Were you

448
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: invited to the memorial? No?

449
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 12: I have never even been talked to by Barry or

450
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 12: the girls.

451
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: Repeat, Very Morphew is not a suspect in the case, Tisha,

452
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: who was there? Barry Morphew's family was. Were Suzanne's family invited?

453
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: Did they come?

454
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 12: I don't believe they were even invited to join them? Why,

455
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 12: which is to me is sad because it's not about

456
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 12: anybody else but Suzanne. So, I mean, we're having ours

457
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 12: this Saturday, and you know everybody's invited. Last year I

458
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 12: did reach out to Barry's attorney and invite them to

459
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 12: our last year's, but this year I just didn't because

460
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 12: every time I do invite them, they decline.

461
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: So why this is news to me? Tisha Leeway, a

462
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: very dear friend of Susanne Morphew. Are you telling me

463
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: you invited the husband, Barry Moorephew to multiple memorials or

464
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: rallies and he never came. Yeah.

465
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 12: I did invite through his attorney last year and I

466
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 12: got back that they are declining.

467
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: Do they say why? No, Well, why do you have

468
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: to go through a lawyer to invite a man to

469
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: his wife's memorial service?

470
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 11: Yeah?

471
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 12: Exactly, That's what I'm thinking. But I did it that

472
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 12: way just to protect myself, I guess why, just to

473
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 12: protect myself.

474
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: Because I don't want to be on that on that lawsuit.

475
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: You know, I hear you. I hear you on that,

476
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: which reminds me Barry Moore, for you has not been

477
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: named a suspect, a personer just in this case. So

478
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: you were not invited. Suzanne Morphew's family was not invited.

479
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: Can I ask you something, Tisha, When you think about

480
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: Suzanne's body decomposing out in that boneyard as they call it,

481
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: her in her little lounge shirt, what goes through your mind?

482
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 9: Horrible? I mean, this whole thing is a it's horrible.

483
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 12: Like obviously we know she was shot with tranquilizer, right,

484
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 12: Like that's a horrible death right in there.

485
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just tranquilizer, Tish, it's rhino elephant

486
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: bear tranquilizer.

487
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 12: She was what one hundred and ten pounds, probably soaked, wet,

488
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 12: like not even close to what a rhino and it

489
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 12: knocks down a rhino.

490
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what it did to her, Joe Scott

491
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: Morgan can think about it. This woman, I think was

492
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: around one hundred and twenty pounds shot full of rhino

493
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: rank and even more poignant, she was still wearing her

494
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: leukemia her cancer port.

495
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's recovered at the scene. Nancy, this is fascinating,

496
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 4: you know, it's fascinating as the contents of that bone are.

497
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 4: We have yet to hear anything about this port other

498
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 4: than it was found. This is a plastic port that's

499
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 4: in dwelling beneath the skin. And look, when we go

500
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: to the doctor, we get three types of shots. You

501
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 4: either get a SubQ fat shot think diabetic shot, an

502
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 4: IM which goes directly into the muscle, or an IV

503
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: which goes into the venus system. If this thing is

504
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: plugged into the venus system. When we begin to think

505
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 4: about this, this is a quick acting delivery. Who would know?

506
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: Who would know? What intimates in her circle would know

507
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 4: that she has this port available. And you know, people

508
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: keep talking about this dark that's flying through the air

509
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 4: presumably and lands in the body. Okay, that's an im

510
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 4: shot that goes into the muscle, but what what would happen?

511
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 4: Just think about this, if you had through a struggle,

512
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 4: you had access to that port and you could jam

513
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 4: one of these darts into it or a syringe. That

514
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 4: is a direct delivery that even works quicker than say,

515
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: for instance, being shot with a tranqueiser dart. Here's where

516
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 4: the tale is going to be told. The medical examiner

517
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 4: would have seen that thing, but guess who still has it.

518
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 4: The State Crime Lab has it. They will take that

519
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 4: thing apart, and what they're going to do is they're

520
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 4: going to look within that port. It's a plastic port,

521
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 4: so it's kind of protected, and see what residual chemicals

522
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 4: might be in that thing. That might be a big

523
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 4: piece of evidence here.

524
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 10: Nancy Suzanne Morphew and her husband Barry Morphew moved to

525
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 10: Colorado from their hometown of Alexandria, Indiana, two years before

526
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 10: she vanished. But now Morphew has left Colorado to move

527
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 10: back to Indiana, where, according to reports, Morphew is living

528
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 10: with Shashawana Dark, who also lived near Suzanne and was

529
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 10: allegedly spotted leaving a hotel with Barry Morphew on Valentine's

530
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 10: Day twenty twenty one.

531
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: What a girlfriend leaving a hotel in twenty twenty one

532
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day. There's nothing good about that. Let me

533
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: go to Lauren Colin, joining US Investigative journalism and host

534
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: of the Outlier podcast and of corruption. What happened to

535
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 1: Grant Solomon? Lauren, thanks for being with us. Can I

536
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: just ask you very quickly? Why is it being reported

537
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: that Barry Morphy sneaked into the memorial? Why is that

538
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: being said?

539
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 8: Well, in my opinion and all of the threads here

540
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 8: saying that he wants to keep a low profile. He

541
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 8: did not speak at that celebration of life for a reason.

542
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 9: He showed up with his daughters, it was his.

543
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 8: Family, and it was one of Suzanne's.

544
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 9: Friends and a pastor that spoke.

545
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 8: So yeah, in my opinion, he just wanted to sneak in,

546
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 8: sneak out.

547
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 9: And call it a day and not be a spectacle.

548
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: Now, what is this I'm hearing about? Shoshana Dark.

549
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 9: Who is that?

550
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: Is that a girlfriend? I knew that there was a

551
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: ruck us about her going to the Morphew home and

552
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: taking a package. It was caught on somebody surveillance video

553
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: and she landed in a whole bunch of trouble for that.

554
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: But apparently she was house sitting. Well, I don't care

555
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: about the package. I'm curious about the title of girlfriend.

556
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: Who is this person?

557
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, so, as far as I know, she is a housekeeper.

558
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 8: And Barry and Shoshana denied being together and having a relationship,

559
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 8: but again, it was reported that they were seen leaving

560
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 8: a hotel on Valentine's Day in twenty twenty one, and

561
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 8: that obviously is very suspicious.

562
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 9: When Barry is on Earth is under so much scrutiny.

563
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 8: I'm just not sure why they wouldn't come out and

564
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 8: just be honest.

565
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 9: Here.

566
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: Morphy was seen with the alleged girlfriend, Shoshannah Dark, during

567
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: a trip to a storage unit in Salida, Colorado. So

568
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: was that incapacity as a girlfriend or a housekeeper? Don't know,

569
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: But I don't know what your housekeeper's doing with you

570
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: at a hotel on Valentine's Day? You know again, Mark

571
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: Taite I guess that's what you would call circumstantial evidence.

572
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 3: Well, that would be circumstantial evidence. And again, these are

573
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 3: all things. And you talked a little bit about the

574
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: Murdock trial, and obviously this has some things that are similar,

575
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 3: but one glaring difference, and that is I would say

576
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 3: that in this instance, the fellow you know who allegedly

577
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: killed his wife, at least in the last case, that's

578
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 3: been dismissed, and he's not a suspect now at least

579
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: he's being quiet. He doesn't owe anyone an explanation about

580
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: why he went to his wife's funeral. This idea that

581
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 3: he sneaked in is something that we have and grafted

582
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: upon the circumstances and the story that we're seeing. He

583
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 3: doesn't know an explanation for that. He's not speaking to

584
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: the police. The whole issue about was that bicycle dumped.

585
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 3: The only way you're ever going to know that is

586
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: if the officers who are investigating this case get more

587
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: few to essentially say that he did it. And he's

588
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: not talking to them. And when you don't talk to

589
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 3: the police. And I know you don't like me saying this, Nancy,

590
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: but I know you agree because prosecuting these cases where

591
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 3: the defendant doesn't talk are multiple harder than it is, say,

592
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 3: prosecuting the Murdoch who wouldn't shut up talking. So it

593
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: is a good valuable example to people who want to

594
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: watch how to defend cases. And it's interesting to watch

595
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 3: how he acts while he is not a suspect. I

596
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: think the girlfriend, pardon me, I think the housekeeper at

597
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 3: a hotel room on Valentine's Day is damning circumstantial evidence,

598
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 3: but it's not a murder, and so there would have

599
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 3: to be some bridge built. I believe between having your

600
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 3: housekeeper at a hotel on Valentine's Day and perhaps that

601
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 3: provides some incentive to do someone harm or to have

602
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: harm done to them, depending upon you who's sneaking with

603
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: who I like.

604
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: That, depending on who is sneaking with A Hey, you're right,

605
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: Mark Tita. I don't know that he's snuck in to

606
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: the memorial. I know that he didn't speak, and that

607
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: the majority of the people there were his friends and family,

608
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: or so I've been told. Believe me, I was not invited.

609
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: That said. Does that make him mkiller? No, it does not.

610
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: But he's got a lot of explaining to do. About

611
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: all of that rhino TRNK found in her body, that

612
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: he suddenly went on a cleaning tear and threw out

613
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: at five public dumps trash cans and was caught on camera.

614
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot of explaining and letting me reiterate. That's

615
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: why I've got Mark Tate on with me today to

616
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: take a different side. Barry Morphew has not been charged

617
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: in the murder of Suzanne Morphew. Again, he was charged

618
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: and it was dropped. We wait as justice unfolds. Let's

619
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: stop and remember American hero Deputy US Marshal Thomas Weeks, Charlotte,

620
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: North Carolina, US Marshal Weeks, Gundawn, three others trying to

621
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: serve an a rest warrant. He leaves behind a grieving wife, Kelly,

622
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: and four beautiful children, Patrick, Abby, Mackenzie and Brady. American

623
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: hero Deputy US Marshall Thomas Weeks. Thank you to all

624
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: of our amazing guests that joined us tonight. Nancy Gray

625
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: signing off, good night friend,