WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Kissinger Parts 1-3 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:02.920 Al Zone Media. 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.480 Hey everyone, Robert Evans here. It's the end of the year. 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.840 A couple of big, heavy hitter holidays coming in a row, 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.760 and we have them off both with the company and 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.360 as a team. So since there's not a new Bastard's 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:20.520 episode this week, and also since Henry Kissinger just died, 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.119 we figured this would be a nice time to rerun 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:27.880 the original six Henry Kissinger episodes. These are great, I 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.640 think are a useful introduction if you, or perhaps your 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.880 friends and family don't know why a lot of people 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.839 are happy that Henry's no longer in the world. I 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.320 want to thank again the doll up guys, Dave Anthony 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.360 and Gareth Reynolds for being wonderful guests for this. I 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.280 checked in with them before we did this, just to 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.320 see if they had anything to plug. Dave Anthony has 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.920 an album out that you can find. It's a hot 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.560 Head by Dave Anthony. You can go to Dave Anthony 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.360 dot bandcamp dot com. I probably don't need a spell 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.520 Dave Anthony for you, right enough one. And then we've 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.880 got Gareth Reynolds, who is going to be touring quote 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.880 all over the place in February and March of twenty 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.080 twenty four. They have too many links to promote as one. 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.880 But if you go to Gareth Reynolds dot com that's 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.600 g A R E T h R E y n 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.880 O l d s dot com you can find their 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.400 schedule for live shows. Gareth is wonderful. Check those out too, Anyway, 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:36.319 nothing else to say. Here are the episodes. Oh Sophie, 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.480 this plate of Behind the Bastards is so heavy as 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.560 we walk through this hallway. Oh my gosh, is that 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.200 David Anthony and Gareth Reynolds with a heavy plate of 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.200 the doll up? Oh no, oh no, I'm losing control. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:57.400 Oh god, you guys are slipping too. How was that? 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:01.360 I couldn't disagree more? 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.800 That was the most organic, just real thing I think 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:07.800 I've ever heard that. 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.520 It was, yeah, like, you're really the only thing I'm 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.359 noticing is you didn't have plates. So I'm wondering how. 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.040 I was wondering as I started it, are they going 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:20.640 to join in? Or am I going to just have 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.120 to commit fully to this? 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.600 And now that's something where if it's me, I just 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:27.120 let you go and then let. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.720 You have inside. I was a dog in a yard 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.359 that wanted to leave it. But I was like, I'll 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.600 get it. I'm not supposed to leave, so I was 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:36.320 I wanted to join that. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:41.600 Oh gosh, well this is this is just a wonderful time. Obviously. 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.320 Again you are Dave Anthony Gareth Reynolds, hosts of The 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:49.360 Doll Up, the podcast that invented being funny about history 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.880 on the Internet. Thank you so much for for sitting 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:53.760 down with us today. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:54.320 Thank you. 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.360 We've always for a long time, I've wanted to do 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.640 something with you so and we've talked about this, but yeah. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:00.600 We have. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.240 This has been like bouncing back and forth for a 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.119 while and it was just one of those things where 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.200 it's like, well, when we finally do our six part 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.440 series on Henry Kissinger, it's going to be the worst 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:12.640 thing we've ever had to do. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.440 They have a therapy session setup right afterwards. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:22.720 Dave married a therapist in preparation. 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.839 That's good, really putting in the deep work to make this, 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:28.760 to make this series of success. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:31.480 So my working. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.760 Title for this, which they probably won't let us use, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.720 is Henry Kissinger comma a big sack of donkey balls before? 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.120 Can we do that? So fun perfectly finds that what 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:43.560 are you talking about. 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.200 What do you guys know, Like I kind of think 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.160 we maybe it's a good idea to start with, like 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.000 what's your your cliffs notes, we'll have We'll have you 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.440 do it, Dave, because because you're the one who reads 0:03:55.440 --> 0:04:00.840 things normally Kissinger, Yeah, you know, a Kissinger. 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.440 The thing that you know obviously stands out as Vietnam 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.560 and Camp and Camp Boda, and you know that's. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.680 Just reprehensible beyond all words. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.760 But he's really been a part of just so many 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.520 horrific foreign policy decisions and had his He's always getting 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:16.880 in there. 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:18.960 He's always a part of the business. Really was. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:20.839 I don't know if he is now, but for a 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.520 long time he was always a guy who would come 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:24.920 in and go, why don't you do the worst thing? 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:25.960 Yeah? 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.479 And that's that's the thing that's that's interesting and even 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.120 a little bit difficult about talking about him because he's 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.479 not one of these guys. He's not like you can't 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.440 say with him like you can with an Asaddam husseaying 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.280 like oh, he ordered he started this war on this date, 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.680 you know, or he he ordered this man. I mean, 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.320 you can actually, but he's he's not like a he's 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.080 not on paper supposed to be a warlord or an 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.400 elected leader. The thing that he is good at doing 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.680 is getting the ability to do stuff that warlords and 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.800 dictators do by sitting in the back rooms with people 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.360 who are the ones who on paper hold the power 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.120 and convincing them to let him do stuff. And he's 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:06.480 the best at that there's ever been. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.680 We've had a couple figures on our podcast who I 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.840 would relate to like, and I would say, maybe Kissinger 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.040 is like the War Crimes Forrest Gump, where yeah, it's 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:21.120 like yes, kind of you're like, oh, yeah, he was there, 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.840 He's invented shit happens. I don't know, he invented that phrase. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.920 Yeah, that's that's incredibly that's that might. I mean, that's 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.839 honestly a better title than the one I came up. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:32.440 This is the favorite title. 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.400 I mean, And obviously Forrest Gump is blameless and Kissinger 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:38.800 is not, but it does get it. The fact that 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.080 he's just like, he's just there. He's just in every 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.600 fucking photo of like guys doing a war crime like 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.680 it is baffling the number of things he's connected to. 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.520 I should probably just start stop selling it, but I 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.080 do kind of want to talk about the fact that 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.760 he is. He is this kind of back room figure 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.520 in a lot of the worst things that happened in 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:03.080 the twentieth century. Because we're gonna spend episode one. By 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.560 the time this episode's over, he's not, you know, in 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.160 the White House, He's not running shit. This is an 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.480 episode where we talk about like his early life and 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:15.560 his ideological roots, because that's that's what underpins all of 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.279 the things that he does. He's not a guy people 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.560 talk about like what Kissinger believes, and Kissinger himself has 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.080 written a bunch of books about what he believes. My opinion, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.400 as an amateur guy studying this dude, is that I 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:30.000 don't think he believes things as much as he beliefs 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.240 and ideas are weapons that he uses in order to 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.479 get people to let him do horrible things. And he 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.960 is the master of using beliefs and moving between different 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.200 groups of people who on paper are ideologically opposed and 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.160 getting them all to agree with whatever bullshit he wants 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.440 to do, because he's really good at talking about ideas 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.159 like a fucking philosopher, Like that's his superpower. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.680 They might just have trouble understanding him. I know, I have. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.080 Whatever what did we agree to Oh god, I was 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.120 going to ask Gareth before we get started. Here is 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.880 your German accent locked and loaded? Ah, I mean, listens 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.960 to the disgust of the German people. 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:09.960 It is. 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.920 That's fine, that's fine they I think we can all agree. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.400 After the twentieth century, the Germans lost the right to 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:18.400 be angry when people. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.680 That's how It's like Texans. You know, everyone can do 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.600 a Texan. Yeah, that's how. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:24.760 I sure, I don't. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:25.240 Think I can. 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.160 I can make any accent sound kind of English and 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:30.280 sort of Spanish. 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.480 And you can't do English. It's really just sort of 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:37.440 this amazing ability to. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.000 See whenever I do a non American accent, it just 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.880 drifts Russian at some point, like one hundred percent of 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:42.280 the time. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:44.880 Yeah, oh my god, Well this is your time. Now 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:46.320 you can shine with what's going on. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.280 I know, I know, I'm ready to just yuck it 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.920 up over. Speaking of which, there's a number of roots 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.440 of what's happening between Ukraine and Russia right now that 0:07:54.560 --> 0:08:00.800 you can type action. I mean that that's a little 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.600 bit less his his the area that he fucked around in, 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.560 But he did some fucking around there, Like one of 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.240 the things. We are spending six episodes talking about Henry 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.040 Kissinger and we're leaving some shit out. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.800 Wow, yeah, you have to. I mean, he's been around 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:13.320 so many years. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.040 I mean, just the fact that he was still powering 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.960 around Hillary Clinton in the election, and you're like. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.040 What is that guy doing there? 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.080 Don't you know? He's bad and he's. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.520 The thing that is so interesting about Kissinger is that 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.440 he does have this equal He's equally good at talking 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.120 to like people who would call themselves liberals and progressives 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.240 as he is to like far right neo cons like 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.400 he's he's he's I mean, you could I think you 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:38.959 could say that. Part of what that reveals is that 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.480 the ruling class in this country are all in agreement 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.160 about things more often than they disagree about things. But 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.080 part of it is just that, like he is so charming. 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.360 We will be talking a bit about Kissinger as a 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.280 sex symbol, which is a thing that happens, and I 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.040 am so sorry that we have to discuss it. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:54.199 No. 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.680 I was hoping he would say this because I've wanted 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.599 to fuck him for so long, Like that's one of 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:01.319 the main things he's hot. 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.800 I call it henryone Fuckinger. I've always wanted. The kiss 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.400 is not enough kiss. That's just a taste of what 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:09.920 I'm after. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.960 Oh boy, well, ab test the Forest, Gump and the 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.040 Fuckinger title. Yeah, we'll just see what plays best in Poughkeepsie. 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.760 So Heinz Alfred Kissinger was born on May twenty seventh, 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.079 nineteen twenty three, in the city of Firth, Germany. The 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.640 Kissingers were a Jewish family, And so given that this 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.560 is Germany in the early twenties, you can tell we're 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.400 not off to a great start already, right, this is 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.640 this is not going to be a story that begins 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.640 in a particularly pleasant place. He was born in a 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.480 very chaotic world. The Great Year was like five years 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.120 past when he comes onto the planet. Everything is falling 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:47.920 apart in Germany and a lot of other places. The 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.840 year he's born, Primo di Rivera seized power as the 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.079 dictator of Spain. Mustafa Kamal took power. In Turkey, the 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.240 Bulgarian prime minister was assassinated in a coup. Like it 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.720 was a troubling time to be a baby. But Heinz's 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.480 mother and father had some reasons for optimism. While Firth 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.600 was not an attractive city, in fact, one contemporary described 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.440 it as stifling in its narrow, dreariness. Are ungardened city, 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:15.440 city of soot. You know, it's it's a city. It's city. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.760 It's city. It's a working class factory town. But because 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.480 of that, and this is the period in which the 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.080 working class is a lot more left wing than you know, 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.160 folks tend to give it credit for being today. It's 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.880 a very it's like a haven for democrats, not like 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.719 our democrats, but people who support democracy as opposed to 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:33.400 want to go back to having a kaiser, you know, 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:35.319 so Firth is. 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.079 I wouldn't want to go back to having a kaiser. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:38.680 He was so we're so good. 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.960 Yeah, yeah, I want to have a king who gets 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.280 us into World War One and like whaps off about 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:47.320 his mom's hands. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.960 That sounds great again. Well, now that I know what 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:55.240 we're talking about, let's dance. I'm in I want a kaiser. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.560 So Firth is. In some ways, you could see it. 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.240 It's rep in Germany as being kind of like Portland today. 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.160 It's a very left wing town. It's seen as a 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.280 haven for socialists. But it's also kind of like Selma, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.960 Alabama during the Civil rights era. Because Firth has a 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.800 very large Jewish population, and the period in like the 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.200 late eighteen hundreds is when a lot of there's essentially 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.800 apartheid against Jewish people in Germany for a long time. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:23.120 So Firth is the city that has Germany's first Jewish lawyer, 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.079 and it has a bunch of their other first Jewish 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.079 you know, exes person who does this job because it's 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.560 this very progressive city with a very integrated Jewish community. 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.640 So it's this mix of the Nazis aren't going to 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.320 like this town, right, Yeah, Like Cortland. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:39.080 Yeah, like Partland. 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.800 Yeah, it's got some similarities between a couple of things. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.280 So Heinz's parents, Paula and Lewis, had grown up in 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.319 Imperial Germany, where Jews were restricted from holding certain jobs, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.160 going to certain schools, living in certain homes, and this 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.440 had ended by the time the Kaiser had so Lewis Kissinger, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:56.760 Henry's dad, kime of age in a period in which 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.520 a Jewish boy could actually build a professional life for 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.920 the first in mainstream German society. He was a member 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.200 of the first and almost the last generation that this 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:10.160 would be true of why what happens oh day, we 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.600 may need to do it a separate podcast seriesly. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.920 I never read any German history. Oh my god, it's 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.920 so exciting. So he starts work. 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.640 Lewis as a teacher in a secular private school when 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.000 he's eighteen, and he holds the job for fourteen years. 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:27.120 And he was a very patriotic person. He's also like, 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.880 he is an Orthodox Jew, so he's very religious, but 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.640 he considers himself a German first and foremost, and his 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.839 family is very patriotic. His brother fights in World War One, 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.480 so does his wife's dad. Two of his cousins die 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.240 fighting for the Kaiser, and when the war ends, German defeat. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.400 You know, there's all these rumors spread throughout the far 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.920 right that the nation's been stabbed in the back by 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.840 an alliance of Jewish boogeyman Heinz or sorry, Lewis kind 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.200 of he sees this as happening, but he doesn't think 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.720 that it's ever going to like take hold. Henry would 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.959 later recall that his father would regularly say, we live 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.760 in an age of tolerance, So his dad is not right. 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:05.960 Yeah, I'm sorry. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.840 Are you talking about America twenty two or are you 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.400 talking about Germany? 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.600 Yeah, we are talking about this on the day that 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.560 Texas just announced a fun new law. Yeah, this is 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.520 this is like, you know, Henry's wrong about a lot 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.400 of stuff. His father is also wrong, but for a 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:22.319 much sadder resent. 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.240 I guess there's a psychic gene in the family. I 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.520 see us being tolerant for generation. Germany will be a 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:36.760 watchword for tolerance. We will be a bastard for all types. Oh, 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.240 poor buddy. Yeah, so he's Uh. 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.680 It's interesting because like the Zionist movement is rising in 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.320 this time, and Kissinger's family rejects this wholeheartedly because they're 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.200 so German right, like, they don't they don't want to 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.240 ever leave. So obviously the Nazi party rises consistently through 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.240 Henry's childhood. Firth was initially safe from this. Just a 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.920 few months after Hines is born. In September of twenty three, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.240 the Nazis and other far right organizations hold a German 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.080 Day in Nuremberg. Several caravans of them passed through Firth, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.200 sort of like Nazis do today in a lot of places. 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:12.560 And you know, they were looking for a fight when 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.360 they drove through. They went through first because it's the 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.280 town where you can get a fight, and they got one. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.080 This is like right after Hintonary is born, a mob 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.840 of brown Shirts are assaulted by a hundred strong crowd screaming, 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.200 killed him and down with Hitler, which is prenny. 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:26.440 Let's end the story there. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:27.320 I love it. 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.960 It's a great and it's the tale of Henry Kissinger, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.800 a kid who was a baby when some dudes did 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:41.120 some rad stuff. So Firth was integrated enough that heines 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.280 initially attended a public school with Christian classmates, which was 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.920 not common for Jewish kids in this time. Yeah, he's 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.640 like going to school with other like kids who are 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.760 not Jewish. Eventually his dad puts him in his private school, 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.920 but that's also an integrated private school. So while his 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.240 education is secular, his family's very strict Orthodox and did 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.080 Hebrew school, which he hated. I found a quote from 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.120 another Jewish guy who grew up in Firth at the 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.880 same time that gives an idea as to why Henry 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.840 was not a big fan of his early religious education. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:11.600 Quote. 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.200 Religion was a study and not a pleasant one, a 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.320 lesson taught soullessly by a soulless old man. Even the 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.040 day I see his evil conceited old face in my dreams. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.200 He thrashed formulas into us antiquated Hebrew prayers that we 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.640 translated mechanically without any actual knowledge of the language. What 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.080 he taught was paltry, dead, mummified, and that I think 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.640 is broadly in line with how Henry feels. Because he's 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.600 not well, doesn't grow up very religious. So Henry is 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.720 is a little kid, you know, he does a lot 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.000 of religion stuff, but as he grows older, he rejects 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.080 his father's passion for faith and his dad's interests in 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.880 classical music and theater. Instead, Henry Kissinger falls in love 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.600 with soccer. He is a huge soccer head. 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:51.960 Oh yeah, happening. 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:55.080 Oh wow. 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.160 Firth has like a locally renowned team. They're one of 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.680 the best teams in jury many and so like their kids' teams, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:06.000 which are feeders into this whatever team are very competitive too. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.320 Henry starts playing in a youth league when he's six 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.440 years old, and he later recalled quote, I wasn't really 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.600 very good, though I took the game seriously. 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.240 But now what about soccer? We should talk about that? 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:16.520 Oh? 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.160 Sorry. 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.360 So his real prowess early on was in strategy, as 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.360 this quote from Niall Ferguson's Kissinger, a book named Kissinger 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.800 like the guy makes clear. Though no great athlete, Heinz 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.880 Kissinger was already a shrewd tactician, devising for his team 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.080 a system that, as as it turns out, is the 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.840 way the Italians play soccer. The system was to drive 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.040 the other team nuts by not letting them score by 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.800 keeping so many people back as defenders. It's very hard 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.640 to score when ten players are lined up in front 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.520 of the goal. So immediately Henry Kissinger, as a kid, 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.240 is like, you know what will help us win and 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:49.800 also make this game no fun at all? 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:55.800 Yeah, we need to poison Henry, what are you talking about? 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:00.760 Firebombs the holmes. We know what to do. Keeper. I 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:01.720 know we are. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.159 Six, but we will park the bus. There will be 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:06.320 no joy in soccer. 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.479 It remove the keeper's hands. He is. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:10.600 He is, as a six year old, doing the soccer 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:18.320 equivalent of carpet bombing. So he gets so into soccer 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.600 that he starts to neglect his studies and his father 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.119 actually bans him from playing for a while. The older 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.880 he gets, Henry has more and more conflicts with his dad, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.640 a thing that no one else has ever experienced. And yeah, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.560 he would regularly, after fighting with his father, bicycle over 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.720 to the home of a friend who later recalled he 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.080 liked being with us. It seems to me he had 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.080 a problem with his father, if I'm not mistaken, he 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.360 was afraid of him because he was a very pedantic man. 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.040 His father was always checking Hines's homework and kept a 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.280 close watch on him. Heines told me more than once 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.520 that he couldn't discuss anything with his father, especially not girls. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.920 So his dad's not like hitting him or anything. He's 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.080 just like really really annoying to him and. 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:57.960 Just like a bit and just like pay attention to 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.760 your studies beyond anything else. Yeah, I think I like 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:02.879 this girl, Like, well, she doesn't. She's not going to 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.400 the same school the focus Henry Focus. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.959 Well yeah, and he's clearly a dick who's like, you know, 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.960 you can't be a professional soccer player at eight, you 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:12.840 have to go to school. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.200 Like he's clearly an asshole. 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.080 Yeah, yeah, I mean he's definitely the villain of the story. 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.080 Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.760 So Henry is magnetic to women from a well girls 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.200 at this point from a very young age. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.399 What in the fuck is happening I know, it's really weird. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:27.960 It's weird. 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.280 And this is the quotes about you know, girls really 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.840 liking him at this age come from his father. But 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.720 like this also happens when he's in his forties and 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.679 the secretary of State. So I'm going to say his 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:40.320 father's probably telling the truth. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.320 I mean, at no point have I seen any version 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.920 of Henry Kissinger. We're like, man, I mean, it is 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.560 weird that got memory hold because there were there were 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.600 New York Times stories about how much women like Henry 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.040 Kissinger because he looks like a lump of clay you 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.280 could mold into anything potentially that would be looked good. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:00.560 Yeah. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.680 No, no, but. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.440 It's it's weird. I mean, yeah, he's the guy. Like, yeah, 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:07.720 we'll talk about some of the things he said about 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.879 sexuality later. I know you're all getting real excited for 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:12.520 that episode. 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:19.159 Yeah. Yeah. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.600 At one point, one of his friends was actually ordered 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:23.440 not to hang out with him because he had quote 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.040 earned a reputation as a skirt chaser. And this is 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:34.520 like when he's nine. Wow, early little Henry cum Rocket Kissinger. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:41.600 The first time sex was nine, So you know, like 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.360 at this point he's rebelling against the family religion, he's 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:45.840 hanging out with girls, he's playing a hell of a 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:46.800 lot of soccer. 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.119 Which seems like a decent childhood. But obviously you know 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.920 the Nazis. So in the mid twenties, the German nation 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.720 goes on strike against some shit. France was doing Versailles stuff. 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.280 We don't need to get into it. Inflation goes crazy, right, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.280 this is the wheel arrows full of cash time. This 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.600 hurts the Kissinger family badly because if you're like, if 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.520 you're a private laborer, if you're working for a private company, 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.400 you can generally like strike and organize to get your 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.359 salary adjusted to deal with inflation somewhat like, it's still bad, 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.760 but it's less bad. If you're a public servant, you 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.320 don't get shit. Your salary stays the same while inflation 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.040 jumps up. So this is really a disaster for the 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.760 Kissinger family, and of course economic trouble coincides with a 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.320 constant acceleration of far right violence. Later, as an adult, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.520 Kissinger would note without emotion that he was somewhat regularly 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.399 chased through the streets and beaten up by Nazi thugs 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:42.359 as a child. Yeah, that's tough. No punch lines no, 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.959 no punchlines. But there is something weird about that because 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.920 he's talked about this a few times, but every time 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.120 he talks about this, it is so that he can 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.679 emphatically state that this part of his life had no 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:54.280 impact on him. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.920 Yeah, if you're really weird, it's very strong literal impact 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:00.600 of fists had no impact upon him. 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:01.080 Yeah. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:01.360 Yeah. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.200 In nineteen fifty eight, he declared, quote, my life in 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.400 Firth seems to have passed without leaving any deeper impressions. 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:09.480 You don't get to say that, by the way. Yeah, 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.359 I feel like you don't like. I feel like you don't. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.359 I feel like I said that to a shrink once 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.640 about my parents' divorce and then wept. Yeah. I didn't 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.879 do anything anything. I mean, what's this, what's his flood 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.160 coming out of it? And it's like Yeah. 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.520 In nineteen seventy four, when discussing the times he was 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:27.520 beaten in the streets by Nazis, he insisted to a 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.720 reporter quote that part of my childhood was not a 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.760 key to anything. I was not consciously unhappy. I was 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.119 not acutely aware of what was going on for children. 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.440 These things are not that serious. It is fashionable now 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.359 to explain everything psychoanalytically. But let me tell you, the 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.600 political persecutions of my childhood are not what control my life, 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:48.480 which is really interesting, right So I know. 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.600 Right, like I'm sure the reporters like, I'm ready to 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.520 ask follow ups whatever. He stops talking. Yeah, you're not 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:59.920 supposed to remember from before ten anyway. I mean, I wouldn't. 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.119 That's how I can kill I went not at nine. 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:04.560 I don't feel anything. 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:05.320 It is. 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.320 It's like, you know, I got assaulted by a Nazi 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.560 when I was thirty three, and it left a mark here. 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.080 But anytime it just growing up in that environment without 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:20.880 being assaulted is going to leave psychological damage. 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.120 If your parents kick you completely safe from street violence, 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.720 it would it could not. Yeah, And it's like, Henry, 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:29.880 this is the only time I'm going to speak sympathetically 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:30.119 to you. 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:32.800 But it's fine. If being beaten by Nazis as a 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.119 child left a mark on it's the only time you 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.560 want to Matt damon him what Robin Williams are Yeah, 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.760 like it's okay, man, Okay, it happened. 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.400 It's interesting the way he the ways he explains why 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.240 this didn't leave any mark on him are very interesting, 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.520 and I want to quote from Henry Kissinger in two 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:55.520 thousand and four. Now, I experienced the impact of Nazism, 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:57.640 and it was very unpleasant, but it did not interfere 0:22:57.640 --> 0:22:59.600 in my friendship with Jewish people of my age, so 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.960 that I did not find it traumatic. I have resisted 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.000 the psychiatric explanations which argue that I developed a passion 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:07.800 for order over justice and that I translated it into 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.760 profound interpretations of the international system. I wasn't concerned with 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.359 the international system. I was concerned with the standing of 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:16.600 the football team of the town in which I lived. 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:18.040 Which you can't do both. 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:22.440 You can't pay attention yeah, soccer, obviously, as no one thinks, 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:24.320 Henry that as an eight year old, you were like, well, 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.119 this is going to impact the way that I believe 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.960 state power should be used when I'm Secretary of State in. 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:32.720 Several decades an advised addiction. 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.640 Just like if you have a car accident as a kid, 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:38.280 You're not thinking, well, this is going to make me 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.400 unable to let other people touch me when I'm thirty three. 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:43.879 Right, you know I'll hate freeway merging. 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:48.680 Yeah, Like obviously, man, and I don't know, like there's 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:51.280 a degree to which in terms of this is the 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:53.520 period in which you can be sympathetic to him. I 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:55.680 do think there's probably something to be said that if 0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:58.040 you have this childhood, maybe you don't want to give 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:00.520 the Nazis anything, you know, even the car like this 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:02.479 left an impact on me, right, because like, fuck him, 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:04.480 I don't want to say that it had an influence 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.000 on me, which I get. 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:08.960 No. Having grown up in a traumatic, you know, sort 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.840 of childhood, you can shut it down and tell yourself 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:13.560 that you're fine. 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:16.760 Like you he The way he survived it. 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.560 Was to to shut his emotions down a little bit 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:22.760 and tell himself that he was fine when it actually 0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.200 is by far probably the most traumatic thing there, and 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.520 and created a fucking monster because he didn't get any 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:30.480 psychological help. 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:38.080 I'm like, naturally, it is not nature versus nurture. I 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:41.480 would have killed just as many people, been a despicable 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:46.280 piece of shit either the way. I don't judge my mity. 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:51.080 So as the twenties rolled to an end, the political 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:55.040 situation in the Weimar Republic gets correspondingly more dire. In 0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:57.920 nineteen twenty five, during a Nazi rally in Firth, Hitler 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:01.600 himself had called it the citadel of the Jews. The 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:05.040 local response at that point in twenty five is overwhelmingly negative, 0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:07.600 and in nineteen twenty seven only two hundred people in 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:10.639 Firth were members of the Nazi Party. Hitler visited the 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.159 city again in nineteen twenty eight, to little effect. The 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.360 party just got six point six percent of the vote 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:18.920 in local elections that year. But the Great Depression rescues 0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:21.800 the end of the twenties rescues the Nazis flagging poll members. 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:24.680 As firsts economy collapses, people grow more willing to listen 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:28.080 to the fascists. In the nineteen thirty elections, Nazis surged 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:30.600 from two point six percent of the vote nationwide to 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.920 eighteen point three percent. In Firth, they won twenty three 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.440 point six percent of the vote, which is four times 0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:39.280 better than they'd done two years earlier and very frightening 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:44.480 for a lot of relevant reasons to today. Yes, Yeah, 0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:47.800 Nazi electoral successes continue to pace the next year, and 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:50.440 by nineteen thirty three, more than twenty two thousand Firthers 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.440 were Nazi voters. I want to quote from Niall Ferguson's 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.920 book again. On April ninth, nineteen thirty two, fifteen SA 0:25:57.000 --> 0:25:59.240 men were set upon by Iron Front members as they 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:02.120 left the pro not Yellow Lion pub. Two months later, 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:06.000 Nazi supporter Fritz Reinngruber was beaten up for being a swastikist. 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:09.199 The same fate befell another Nazi caught selling the NSDAP 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:13.119 newspaper the volkas Schebeobacter. The police watched helplessly on the 0:26:13.119 --> 0:26:15.520 evening of July thirtieth as a mob threw potatoes and 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:18.200 stones at a Nazi motorcade going from the Firth Airport 0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:21.199 to the Nuremberg Stadium. The car carrying Hitler himself was 0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.440 among the vehicles. But just a year after, Hitler's car 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:27.479 gets pelted. After the Nazis begin to consolidate power, when 0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:30.880 Hitler's the chancellor, the mood is very different. On March third, 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:34.040 there's another torchlit parade by the Nazis through Firth, and 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.080 on the evening of March ninth a crowd of between 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.000 ten and twelve thousand people's gathers outside one of the 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:42.399 bars there to watch the raising of the red Nazi flag. 0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:47.159 So you know it gets bad pretty fast. 0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:50.760 Can I just flag the person who brought the potatoes 0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:54.480 to the rock throwing event. Yeah, I feel like he 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:58.080 turned first. Yeah, how were doing rocks? Oh? 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.480 I know that was a drag of rock? Those look 0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:06.119 like potatoes. Now, lord, you know what I'm going to 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.119 say it right now. If that guy had brought rocks, 0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:10.840 he might have killed Hitler. Could we kind have avoided. 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:16.560 Right the guy? Yeah, for want of a rock? World 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:19.640 War two? Oh you guys, see my potato hit that car? 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:21.280 It really smushed it. 0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:28.879 I look, mas, I do left the idea that he 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:30.159 also boiled it before. 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:34.960 Yeah, yeah, well I don't want to look weird. 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.240 So Lewis Kissinger lost his job teaching once the Nazis 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:41.879 came to power. Henry again, who'd never gotten along with 0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:45.600 his dad, watches his father collapse into what biographer Thomas 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:48.919 Allen Schwartz describes as a quote state of immobility and 0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:53.720 psychological depression. Lewis withdrew into his study. According to Henry's 0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:56.720 brother Walter, while the world outside veered closer to nightmare. 0:27:57.080 --> 0:28:01.120 In his book Henry Kissinger and American Power Schwartz, Kissinger 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.760 and his brothers saw the progressive segregation, isolation, and humiliation 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.560 the Jews of Firth experienced, even their attempt to watch 0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:09.760 soccer games came with the risk of their being beaten 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:13.720 by young Nazi thugs. The world of Heinz's childhood rapidly collapsed, 0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:16.320 and his parents and the older generation of Firth's Jews 0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:19.000 could not protect their young from the hatred around them. 0:28:19.160 --> 0:28:22.000 After the passage of the Nuremberg Laws in nineteen thirty five, 0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.760 Kissinger's mother began to look for a way to leave Germany. 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:26.960 A cousin in the United States was willing to provide 0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:29.600 the financial support that would allow the Kissingers to immigrate. 0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:32.240 In August and of nineteen thirty eight, after a last 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.520 visit with Paula's elderly parents in Ludershausen, where Heines saw 0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:38.160 his father cry for the first time, the family headed 0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:41.360 to New York. Only three months later, during Christalnacht, the 0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:44.440 synagogue and Firth, like hundreds of others throughout Germany, burned 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:47.040 to the ground and a knight of orchestrated violence. 0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:50.040 Free so months, yeah, I mean that is crazy. 0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:53.640 When Henry Leive's Firth there are two thousand Jews in 0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:56.160 the Jewish community at the end of World War Two, 0:28:56.200 --> 0:28:59.560 there are forty Oh my god, yeah. 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:02.600 And three months is so? I mean that is barely meanly. 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:07.719 That's like they stay as late as they possibly care. Right, Yeah, 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:08.760 at least. 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:12.040 Thirteen members of Kissinger's family would perish in the Holocaust. Obviously, 0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:14.760 it being what it is. I don't know that you 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:17.680 can it's not super easy to get exact numbers. But like, 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:20.600 his family is as devastated as you would expect of 0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:23.840 a German Jewish family. And he does acknowledge for the 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:26.560 first time, he admits that like some part of this 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:29.400 had an influence on him. It was moving away from 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:32.160 Germany and like going across the world to the United States, 0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:36.400 and he says, and this is I think him being 0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:39.320 somewhat honest, that the deepest impact of all this was quote, 0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:42.120 all the things that had seemed secure and stable collapsed, 0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:44.640 and many of the people that once had that one 0:29:44.680 --> 0:29:48.000 had considered the steady examples suddenly were thrown into enormous 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:51.959 turmoil themselves and into fantastic insecurities. People will say, we'll 0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:54.640 talk about this later. He's very much an order obsessed guy, 0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:57.120 and like, okay, yeah, I get it, Like I get 0:29:57.160 --> 0:29:58.360 where that came from, you know. 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:02.920 I mean, that's very common for that happened in you know, Chile, 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.440 in other places where it all falls apart into authoritarianism. 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:09.400 There's a lot of people who are like, I just 0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:10.960 want it to be the same. 0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:14.440 Yeah, well, yeah, you hear that all the time here too. 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:17.440 I mean, not like that. Obviously, it's far it was 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:19.480 far more dire. But there are a lot of people 0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.440 I know who keep saying that shit here, who keep 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:24.400 being like, I just wanted to go back to normal. 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.000 And you're just like, that ship is fucking sailed. 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:30.160 That is not you know, yeah, it never does, it 0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:32.760 never can, but we all do it. Like even the 0:30:33.080 --> 0:30:36.120 kind of like obsession with nineties nostalgia is evidence of that, 0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:38.960 and not because the nineties were like a perfect time, 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.400 but because like, yeah, you didn't. You weren't aware of 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:44.440 how fucked like like Henry, like your dad hadn't collapsed 0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:46.760 into like an unable to handle him. 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:50.000 You're just likes too aggressive and yeah, oh my god, 0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:50.800 we don't have money. 0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:55.160 Yeah yeah, you went from oh my gosh, you know, 0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:58.959 the OJ Simpson trial, what a mess too? Well, now 0:30:59.000 --> 0:30:59.880 what plague has killed him? 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:07.720 And people, oh my god, it's better give me that 0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:08.600 time capsule. 0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:13.080 It's it's so funny that parallels because I'm i literally 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:16.120 am writing a dollar right now, and and the guy 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.800 turns into an authoritarian and his dad shut himself in 0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:21.600 his house and isolated. 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:23.760 It's it's so weird how these things. 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:27.160 I mean, if you I mean, just to continue off 0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:29.960 of that, Dave Hitler's dad dies when he's a little kid, 0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:36.120 pledges the family finances and situation into insecurity and chaos. Yeah. Yeah, 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:39.520 it's when when something that seemed stable from your early 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:41.640 childhood collapses. Perhaps it has an. 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:47.320 Influence, yes, by what Kissinger said, by what Kissinger said, 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:51.400 But you know what, Henry Kissinger loves the products and 0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:53.640 services that support this podcast. 0:31:56.480 --> 0:32:00.800 Look, Henry is one of the few VIPs on It's 0:32:00.840 --> 0:32:04.160 Island where you can hunt children anytime he wants. He 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:08.000 gets a free three bedroom apartment on the child hunting Island. Sophie. 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:12.440 That yeah, because for some fucking reason, he is still alive. 0:32:13.680 --> 0:32:19.120 Yes, well, let's be honest here. This is essentially as 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:22.240 eulogy because when we finish this podcast and it's published, 0:32:22.640 --> 0:32:23.800 Kissingers should die. 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:30.280 It's possible. I'm planning a dark occult ritual using my 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:33.000 own blood and a candle I bought in Mexico to deal, 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.480 Like I mean, I'm not gonna say I'm not doing it. 0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:45.680 Yeah, it's anyway. 0:32:41.200 --> 0:32:49.560 Here's here's some ads. Oh we're back. Have you guys 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:51.960 gone to the island where you can hunt little kids 0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:52.600 for sport? 0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:57.640 Yes, it's amazing. It's also fresh. It's very the brisk, 0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:00.680 expect to be that fresh. So good. 0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:12.480 So Kissinger today has i Kissinger today has idyllic recollections 0:33:12.520 --> 0:33:14.640 of his early years in the United States. He often 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.040 talks about walking down the streets of his new neighborhoods, 0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:19.520 seeing a group of boys walking towards him and crossing 0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:21.520 the street because he's you know, he's afraid he's going 0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:24.680 to get beat. Yeah, and then he would realize like, oh, 0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:27.200 that doesn't happen here, which obviously it did. 0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:31.680 Those boys. Yeah, they're just wearing brown shirts because they 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:32.320 like brown. 0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:35.960 Yeah, yes, Henry, this is a country where some people 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:38.320 who wear brown aren't Nazis. Some of them are, some 0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:39.440 of them are, Henry. 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:39.680 Yeah. 0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:40.000 Yeah. 0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:44.479 Different did not mean easy. Though the Kissinger spent their 0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:47.400 first years in a crowded Bronx apartment living with family. 0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:50.360 Lewis got sick and even more depressed. Paula had to 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:52.960 take control of the family and handle shit. She became 0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:56.000 a caterer and started a business that became the family's lifeline. 0:33:56.320 --> 0:33:59.200 The neighborhood they lived in was dominated by Orthodox Jewish 0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:01.400 families with a familiar background. A lot of them were 0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:04.880 from other parts of Germany, and so the Kissingers benefited 0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:07.680 from the help of several community organizations and getting back 0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:10.239 on their feet. He benefits a lot from the fact that, 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:13.040 you know, there's not really a government support network, but 0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:16.480 the other Jewish refugees who have come over from Europe 0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:19.600 have built support networks to make it easier for new 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:23.600 folks coming. Henry's teen years were a mix of school 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.960 in synagogue. He failed his first driving test but excelled 0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:29.400 at soccer, and he grew to admire many aspects of 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:33.520 his new home, including quote American technology, the American tempo 0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.480 of work, and American freedom, which I might say is 0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:38.439 in direct opposition to the American tempo of work. 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:38.920 But whatever. 0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:44.000 Kissinger was frustrated to though by the casual approach to 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:46.839 life that he saw in his new peers. He thought 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:49.400 they were superficial. He wrote at the time that quote 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.080 no youth my age has any kind of spiritual problem 0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:57.280 that he seriously concerns himself with which, well, yeah, okay, Henry, 0:34:57.480 --> 0:35:01.280 all right, Hank fair I you come over from Nazi 0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:03.880 Germany and you're like people here seem carefree and. 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:08.160 Shallow and yeah, and your schooling was basically like some 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:11.040 old dude being like you did, right, you know, like 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:12.880 you're gonna be like geez, these guys are really not 0:35:13.000 --> 0:35:14.080 focused on what matters. 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:14.640 Yeah. 0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:16.680 Look, I don't want to I don't want to be 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:20.480 too critical, but New York used a little bit of Nazism, 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:21.040 you know what I mean. 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:23.000 It's a little loose, good lord. 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:27.160 So because of all of this, this is this is 0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:29.960 why one of his biographers, Schwartz, describes young Henry as 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:33.839 socially inept. He's not not great at talking to it's 0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:36.040 not great at dealing with his new peers. He did 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:38.680 start dating again, though, first a girl who was a 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.840 refugee from nearby Nuremberg, but most of his focus was 0:35:41.920 --> 0:35:45.359 on schoolwork in soccer. Because you graduated George Washington High 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.560 School and started at the City College of New York. 0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:49.879 He took classes at night so he could work during 0:35:49.920 --> 0:35:51.960 the day at a brush cleaning factory. Some of his 0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:52.960 cousins owned the. 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:59.480 Brushes failth they boys keep going. It's the most amazing 0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:03.080 like old timey job ever. I mean, it's basically like 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:05.080 all I can picture is just like the jobs are 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:09.799 either like pressing sheets or washing brushes. These brushes I'm 0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:11.880 not going to clear themselves, gentlemen, how many times do 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:12.759 I have to tell you? 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:13.600 Well? 0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.719 In the corollary is some mom being like, Billy, you 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:21.200 didn't take your sister's brushes to the cleaning shop. Now, 0:36:25.440 --> 0:36:29.640 it's very funny. Everything old timey is funny. People are 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:31.520 going to think this in the future about I don't know, 0:36:31.760 --> 0:36:36.839 having water. So at this point Himry's ambition in life 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:40.120 was to get quote a nice job, likely in accounting. 0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:43.759 One biographer noted, quote nothing that happened to Kissinger during 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:46.640 those years encouraged him to read more widely. His historical 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.279 interests were as underdeveloped when he was twenty as when 0:36:49.320 --> 0:36:51.280 he arrived in New York as a boy of fifteen, 0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:54.719 which is the first normal thing about him that like, yeah, dude, 0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:58.319 you know whatever, like he's a kid. Yeah, we're about 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:02.200 to get to the studio. Fifty four years. Yes, so 0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:05.560 World War II happens, starts for the United States, at 0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:09.080 least it started elsewhere a bit earlier, but for the US, 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:12.759 it's right, we'll do it when Henry is twenty one. 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:16.520 He did not initially feel called to volunteer for service, 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:19.080 but when he got his draft notice in nineteen forty three, 0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:22.640 he complied and joined the roughly sixteen million Americans who 0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:24.160 became soldiers during this period. 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:25.279 And if it. 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:28.120 Weren't for this, Henry Kissinger probably never would have been 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.279 a figure of historical importance. Again, he just kind of 0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:34.280 wanted to be an accountant, but being drafted successfully disrupted 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:37.000 his plans for a quiet, boring life and thrust him 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:41.160 into the world that says it all. Yeah, it's not 0:37:42.120 --> 0:37:43.440 maybe don't draft this guy. 0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:46.320 Right, yeah, don't right care right? I could be like 0:37:46.400 --> 0:37:49.279 you don't. I did not actually see your venmo this year, 0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:51.360 so the process. 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.040 Yeah, there's a future where he just has really strong 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:57.759 opinions on W two's. 0:37:57.600 --> 0:38:01.520 Yeah exactly ten ninety nine. But I feel like it 0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:03.880 was actually more like W four mm. 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:08.000 Yeah, or he does like a Bernie madeoff thing. But 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:10.200 either way, it's a much better future than the one 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:12.279 we got. I will take the madoff ending for him 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:12.640 for sure. 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:15.960 Yeah. Fine, So we have. 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:18.920 Letters that Henry sent to his brother Walter during training. 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:22.839 He purported to like the quote middle Americans he met there, 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.160 but warned his sibling, don't become too friendly with the 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:27.960 scum you invariably meet there. 0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:31.080 Hell, hell he did. 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:33.480 He did pick up all something from the Nazis. 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:35.440 He's a little bit right. 0:38:35.560 --> 0:38:35.759 Yeah. 0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:39.560 He also he also advised against having sex with the 0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:43.759 quote filthy syphilis infected camp followers, which is too specific 0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:46.320 to have been random. I think the Kissinger had a 0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:49.320 bad experience with the camp follow. 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:52.320 Like everyone that's camp has syphilis. 0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:59.400 Every girl I fucked had syphilis. 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:03.680 I thought one girl one of them has it. Yeah, 0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:11.960 that's what the notation zero of the syphilis epidemic. Surrounded 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:12.799 by counselors. 0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:17.840 So the Army administered a series of tests, which Kissinger 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.680 excelled at, and he earned entrance into a special training 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:24.480 program that sent particularly bright soldiers to college. He received 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.320 his American citizenship in nineteen forty three while he was 0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:31.200 at Lafayette College in Pennsylvania. The program lasted just six months, 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:35.520 and Henry finished twelve engineering classes. During his off hours, 0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:37.960 he would hitch hike home and see his girlfriend. He 0:39:38.080 --> 0:39:40.560 was a brilliant student, recognized by his roommates as the 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:44.520 quote brainiest of a very intelligent class. One classmate recalled 0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:47.320 he didn't read books. He ate them with his eyes, 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.440 his fingers, and with his squirming in the chair or bed, 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:51.080 and with his mumbling criticism. 0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:55.680 He was more as salt if I've been other than 0:39:56.680 --> 0:40:00.480 he sounds like a book. This is really a weird 0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:03.320 way to describe it. Dude. It's kind of what but 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:05.320 the way he looks now is like he eats books. 0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:11.680 Yeah, kind of had like a visual like oh reaction 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:14.600 to that, to that line, like, oh, cringe. 0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:17.759 I now kind of want the story of that classmate, Like, yeah, 0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:21.200 caused you to describe a dude reading books that way? 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:24.239 Well, in my college, I hate analogies. I just would 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:28.200 just just devour them. I need them like a synonym. 0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:35.320 You know, His professors would use Henry to explain complicated 0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:37.640 concepts to the other soldiers, and for a brief period 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:40.439 of time, he had status and respect, which he'd begun 0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:42.920 to crave as a young man. His time in this 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:45.759 program was cut short because you know, d day we 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:48.000 decide America is like we're going to do us a 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:50.600 normandy landing, and the army is like, well, we probably 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:52.919 don't need smart people for that, so let's police kids 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:54.719 out of the class and show how to get shot 0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:55.279 by you guys. 0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:56.799 We actually want to talk to you over here about 0:40:56.840 --> 0:40:59.799 something totally different. Guy. No, no, not you, not you, Chad, 0:40:59.880 --> 0:41:02.239 you stay right there, Jed, talk about these other guys. 0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:04.040 Thank you, good luck. 0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:08.000 So Henry and his classmates get sent back to basic training, 0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:10.680 where the drill sergeants, according to Henry took glee and 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:15.839 tormenting the college kids, which I don't know, probably true, 0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:19.520 while he was preparing to go overseas. And this is 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:21.560 what my grandpa was doing in World War Two. And 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:25.080 I hope he bullied Henry Kissinger. I hope my grandpa 0:41:25.239 --> 0:41:27.600 got a chance to give Henry Kissinger some shit fingers. 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:34.480 He did, right, he did, but he did absolutely so 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:36.600 while he was preparing to go overseas. 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:41.239 His biographer Schwartz writes, even in the misery of Camp Claiborne, however, 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.800 Kissinger stood out, selected by his commanders to provide soldiers 0:41:44.840 --> 0:41:47.279 with a weekly briefing on war news. Although he did 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:49.960 the job well, Kissinger was more impressed with another older 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:53.560 German refugee in an American uniform Fritz Kramer, who came 0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:56.399 to Camp Claiborne in May nineteen forty four to speak 0:41:56.400 --> 0:41:59.719 about the meaning of war. After Kramer's impassion talk, kiss 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:02.600 wrote him a note, Dear Private Kramer, I heard like 0:42:04.000 --> 0:42:08.160 sorry basically yeah, yeah, he literally like it's like I 0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:09.440 liked what you had to say. 0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:13.480 Can I help you? Like, that's literally what the note is. Scared. 0:42:15.480 --> 0:42:19.759 Yeah. Kramer responded almost immediately to the simple fan letter, 0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:22.040 returning a few days later to seek Kissinger out for 0:42:22.120 --> 0:42:25.600 conversation in dinner, insistingly speak in German, not English. The 0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:28.000 Lutheran Kramer later said that he was taken with this 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:31.160 quote little Jewish refugee he had met, who he believed 0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:35.440 as yet knows nothing, but already he understands everything. Wow, 0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:37.719 that's an interesting way to describe him. 0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:43.640 It sounds like, yeah, and this guy Kramer is Kramer 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.000 is a Prussian, which I don't know the degree to 0:42:46.040 --> 0:42:47.959 which that that means anything to a lot of people, 0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:49.120 the Prussians. 0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:51.880 So there was most of the resistance to the Nazis 0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:54.520 was from the left. Once the Nazis got into power, 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:57.400 the resistance to the Nazis that meant anything was Prussian 0:42:57.640 --> 0:42:59.680 not because they were good dudes, but because they were 0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:03.040 way too conservative for Hitler. They were like, well, we 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:05.719 want to fight on takeover all of Europe, but like 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:08.360 with a kaiser who has royal blood, not this like 0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:11.560 gross little corporal and stuff. And it's complicated because like 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:14.000 a lot of those Prussians got murdered by the Nazis, 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:16.360 And as a general rule, your sympathy is with the 0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:19.279 people who get murdered by the Nazis, but it's also like, yeah, 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:22.120 you got murdered by the Rai Nazis for the wrong reasons. 0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:25.080 Right right, yeah right. They were like we have one 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:27.279 small note, but everything else is working great for it. 0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:29.439 They were the guys who were like Hitler's bad because 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:33.560 he's not going to win the war against Russia, right wow, okay, yeah. 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.680 So this guy, Fritz Kramer would be, in Henry's words quote, 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:41.640 the greatest single influence on my formative years, since Fritz 0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:44.440 was a Prussian conservative. So for an idea of how 0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:48.360 fucking German Fritz Kramer is, he wears a monocle to 0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:51.839 make his wow I work harder to make his weak 0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:54.640 eye wow, Like, oh my god. 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:59.120 Oh I'm the craziest asshole ever. 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:06.640 Wow, And you know, Fritz hated the Nazis, which good good. 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:09.520 He also hated the Communists, which you have to think 0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:13.200 there is some some some suss stuff there. Yeah, you know, 0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.359 Communists in a mixed bag like everybody. But I don't 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:20.279 think he's very nuanced about it. Schwartz also credits Fritz 0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:24.280 with expressing quote a respect for international law and emphasis 0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:28.360 on the moral basis of civilization. And what Fritz Kramer 0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:30.759 means by the moral basis of civilization is not the 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:31.319 same as what. 0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:33.680 I think maybe you or I might need. Yeah, okay, 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:36.799 now that Yeah. 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:39.080 I think the most important influence Kramer had was he's 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:42.040 Kramer is very conservative, and he Henry is kind of 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:47.080 a natural conservative. And Kramer really reinforces this feeling in Henry, 0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:50.239 which is expressed by a growing sort of revulsion in 0:44:50.320 --> 0:44:54.120 Kissinger towards any ideas outside of the political median right, 0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:57.120 which you get why he has a tendency towards this. 0:44:57.239 --> 0:44:59.680 If your life, if your childhood is this like battle 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:02.400 of ex streams in your hometown, I get why you 0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:04.480 would kind of veer towards the middle. And this guy 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:07.160 Kramer really turns that up to eleven in him. One 0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:09.560 write up in The New Yorker notes quote he warn't 0:45:09.640 --> 0:45:13.759 Kissinger not to emulate cleverling intellectuals and their bloodless cost 0:45:13.840 --> 0:45:18.280 benefit analyzes. Believing Kissinger to be musically attuned to history, 0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:21.319 he told him, only if you do not calculate, will 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:23.920 you really have the freedom which distinguishes you from the 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:24.640 little people. 0:45:24.920 --> 0:45:28.040 Oh so that's bad. So that's gonna go really bad. 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:30.480 I mean you really are like, I mean, this is 0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:32.960 his Morpheus. We're just starting to be like, Okay, this 0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:35.160 is And by the way, have you thought about maybe 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:37.239 just losing the glasses and just going with the Wand 0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:41.920 that is so much like punish your weak eye. You 0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:45.439 much punished a week, even when it comes to your eyes. Yeah, yeah, 0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:45.719 he is. 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:48.279 He has found a kid who like has a problematic 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:50.840 history of starting fires and is now teaching him how 0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:52.480 to build a fertilizer boss. Yeah. 0:45:52.840 --> 0:45:56.440 Yeah, he's a bad influence. Yeah, and it matches us 0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:58.080 so so but have you ever seen a zippo? 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:00.359 Yeah? Great. 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:05.319 So Kissinger finishes training and is deployed with the eighty 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:08.760 fourth entrant for Infantry Division as it moves towards Nazi Europe. 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:11.640 His division sees a decent amount of combat. 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:12.080 He does not. 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:15.440 He's a back ranker. He handles administrative and management tasks, 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:18.520 and he finds the power and authority he gets through 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:21.680 his time in the service intoxicating. Though he never again 0:46:21.719 --> 0:46:24.080 he doesn't fight directly, he does earn a bronze star 0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:26.520 for a valor because he helps catch and take out 0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:29.279 a Gestapo sleeper cell, primarily due to the fact that like, 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:32.440 he's just you know, a very observant dude. In nineteen 0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:36.040 forty five, he participates in the liberation of a concentration camp. 0:46:36.480 --> 0:46:39.520 Alam ahl em, I'm not one hundred percent sean how 0:46:39.560 --> 0:46:42.799 to pronounce it. One prisoner at the camp remembered him 0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:46.640 as the young American who announced you are free. For Kissinger, 0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:49.520 the overwhelming memory of this experience with seeing inmates he 0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:53.600 described as being barely recognizable as humans and feeling the 0:46:53.719 --> 0:46:56.200 instinct to feed them before learning that some were so 0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:59.919 starved that solid food would kill them shortly thereafter. Yeah, 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.120 I mean, one thing you gotta say, he does not like, 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:05.680 he's not a sheltered upbringing, and you, I. 0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:08.480 Mean, like you would be like, oh, maybe that could 0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:10.719 be the influence that made him be like oh, you 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.760 know you can. There's good you can provide, like provide 0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:16.400 the people who are tortured and starved. 0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:17.000 Some you know. 0:47:17.160 --> 0:47:19.879 Yeah, you could take away from this like, my god, 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:21.920 war is evil and we should do everything we can. 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:26.440 Yeah, right, as opposed to yeah maybe, well, let's see 0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:27.359 how it plays out, Dave. 0:47:29.280 --> 0:47:31.880 Maybe this is the sixth part behind the Bastards episode 0:47:31.880 --> 0:47:36.239 about a cool dude who does nice things. I just 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:38.319 brought you guys here to talk about a chill guy. 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:45.400 So shortly after liberating this concentration camp, Kissinger writes an 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:48.960 essay on his experience where he asks quote who was 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:51.320 lucky the man who draws circles in the sand and 0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:54.280 mumbles I am free? Or the bones that are interred 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:57.840 in the hillside. He concludes from the experience that this 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:01.319 is humanity in the twentieth century. So, I mean an 0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:07.040 understandably bleak take from liberating a concentration cam. Yeah that's fair. 0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:12.160 You know, what is a bad time to move to 0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:12.839 an ad plug. 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:17.080 I didn't think you're gonna be brave enough to do this, 0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:18.239 but fair enough? 0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:21.439 Boy? 0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:25.080 Wow, yeah, you know what makes me hungry. 0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:33.040 Probably shouldn't go too far down that road. Let the 0:48:33.080 --> 0:48:35.520 ads do the talk. Let the ads do the talking. 0:48:35.680 --> 0:48:37.919 The ads are going to come and win the same 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:39.960 way the Soviet Union did. 0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:47.560 Wave after wave of men into Nazi trenches. Anyway, I 0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:49.200 think we lost it. We had it for a minute, 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:52.080 and there I took it too far, you know, I 0:48:52.160 --> 0:48:52.719 took it there. 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:55.279 Here we go. 0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:07.000 Oh we're back. So when the war ends, World War two, 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:10.560 you know that is uh. Sergeant Henry Kissinger finds himself 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:14.360 as quote the absolute ruler of a small village named Binsheim. 0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:18.560 He enjoys this experience. He really starts to like having power. 0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:19.760 One thing that we're. 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.600 Getting here is that he adores having power over people. 0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:24.960 Yeah, he really likes it. 0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:28.360 In his letters, he celebrates repeatedly to his family that 0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:30.920 he has quote absolute authority to arrest people. 0:49:33.000 --> 0:49:38.480 And it's this is this is problematic because of what 0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:39.359 he does later. 0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:42.600 I will say, if you are a Jewish kid who 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:44.560 has to flee Germany and then you come back and 0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:48.239 get made like the military head of a town that's 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:51.000 full of former Nazis, I get reveling in it a 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:51.440 little bit. 0:49:51.719 --> 0:49:51.919 Yeah. 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:56.200 Well for me, I'm having beheading tuesdays, if that's me. 0:49:56.880 --> 0:50:00.640 Yeah. So again, he's not because of what he does later. 0:50:00.800 --> 0:50:05.239 This is unsettling, but like it's understandable in the moment. Yeah, 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:08.160 he appropriates a luxury home and a fancy car, both 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:10.239 of which had to have belonged to some Nazi, which 0:50:10.280 --> 0:50:12.640 is like, it's what you do, right. 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:14.080 He gets a butler. 0:50:14.200 --> 0:50:16.960 He brags back to his family that he's a Nazi butler, 0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:19.000 a fucking Nazi butler. 0:50:20.840 --> 0:50:25.719 For not giving me butter. Yeah, that is that is obvious. Now. 0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:29.560 That said, he's also, to his credit, really aware of 0:50:30.640 --> 0:50:34.080 not wanting the Germans in town to identify this guy 0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:36.720 who is absolute ruler as being Jewish. I think because 0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:40.000 he doesn't want it to make things up problems for 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:42.759 people whose Jewish people who stay behind in Germany. He 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:45.359 makes other soldiers refer to him as mister Henry rather 0:50:45.440 --> 0:50:48.080 than by his last name. He's conscious he doesn't want 0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:49.960 them to think quote that the Jews were coming back 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:53.080 to take revenge. And he had a reputation in general 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:56.040 as being more objective as a as a ruler in 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:59.040 this kind of period than most Jewish veterans in similar positions. 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:05.359 In general, Henry counciled accommodation in rapprochma with one exception Communists. 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:14.399 The civil of course, fucking like understandable beer, Yeah yeah, 0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:20.280 the Nazis butmi yeah yeah, And that's literally what happens. 0:51:20.440 --> 0:51:23.120 So the Cold War, you know, early stages in nineteen 0:51:23.200 --> 0:51:26.920 forty six, but already in that period, Kissinger advocates strict 0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:29.920 surveillance of German civilians for left wing sympathies. 0:51:30.239 --> 0:51:40.800 And yeah, that's Nazis just doing like did Yeah, the 0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:45.560 left is due, the left is due. He doesn't want them. 0:51:45.600 --> 0:51:48.000 He also wants to ban Communists from teaching at the 0:51:48.080 --> 0:51:49.160 local schools, which. 0:51:48.960 --> 0:51:50.839 Again is what the fuck? 0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:55.160 He went straight Nazi all of a sudden. Yeah, he's 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.960 he's definite. Well let's say fascists. Let's let's say fascists. Okay, yeah, 0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:01.839 fascist now, yeah, he does a bit. 0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:02.640 He does a bit. 0:52:03.520 --> 0:52:06.520 He starts dating a gentile German girl during this period, 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:08.960 because again he's not very religious. His letters home to 0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:11.040 his parents though, because they don't like this at all. 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:14.440 They're they're like, you're losing your your faith, and Henry 0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:18.240 gets very combative with them. He sees them as irrational, writing, quote, 0:52:18.360 --> 0:52:20.279 to me, there is not only right or wrong, but 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:23.200 many shades in between. The Real tragedies in life are 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:26.719 not choices between right and wrong, real difficulties, bare difficulties 0:52:26.760 --> 0:52:29.560 of the soul, provoking agonies which you and your world 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:31.840 of black and white can't begin to comprehend. 0:52:32.160 --> 0:52:36.799 How's the dog? How's the dog? Love you, mom? Love 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.800 you mom? Alsopuffs good. 0:52:41.239 --> 0:52:41.440 Is his. 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:48.200 And his parents. His parents have their reaction real died 0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:51.800 where they're like, hey, how are you? Hey? It seems 0:52:51.880 --> 0:52:56.719 like the war may have effect on you. 0:52:57.920 --> 0:53:00.520 I've said this ever since you met the mono, but 0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:01.560 you're really intense. 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:05.239 Yeah, maybe maybe all of the things you've seen have 0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:07.759 had an impact on you. And herey response to this 0:53:08.239 --> 0:53:11.640 by getting enraged and saying, not everybody came out of 0:53:11.719 --> 0:53:13.360 this war as a psycho neeurotic. 0:53:13.600 --> 0:53:15.760 Oh, that shows them. That'll teach them that that's exact. 0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:18.960 That's fine, that's fine, that's exactly right. That's the right 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:20.760 reaction of a non psycho neurotic. 0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:24.360 When you're when you're screaming, I'm not a psycho neurotic. 0:53:24.440 --> 0:53:28.120 In letters, you're a psycho neurotic. I got from Garland Camp. 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:30.960 If all they're saying is like, hey, Henry, do you 0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:34.920 think maybe seeing a concentration camp has left some mental 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:36.839 scars that you need to like heal from. 0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:40.440 Hey, maybe I should drive that to the toilet. Okay, 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:44.239 all right, buddy, all right, path We're just we're just 0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:46.319 writing letters here, buddy. We're just writing some letters. That's 0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:48.040 all we're doing. It's one of those things. 0:53:48.360 --> 0:53:50.920 This is a period of time obviously, like every like 0:53:51.040 --> 0:53:53.040 one of the things that causes what happens later in 0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:56.239 American history is that sixteen million Americans go to war 0:53:56.280 --> 0:53:58.040 and a bunch of them get traumatized, and they come 0:53:58.080 --> 0:54:00.520 back to a world where like their dad would always like, 0:54:00.560 --> 0:54:02.680 if you talk about your feelings, I'm going to hit you. 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:03.120 Yeah. 0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:05.920 Hearry's family doesn't seem to be like that. His parents 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:08.680 are like, hey, do you want to talk about your feelings? 0:54:08.760 --> 0:54:10.000 And he's like, I'm not crazy. 0:54:10.320 --> 0:54:10.520 Yeah. 0:54:15.280 --> 0:54:17.560 Obviously, obviously, the fact that this is a time in 0:54:17.640 --> 0:54:20.000 which like men don't fucking do therapy does have an 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:22.239 impact on it. But I think his family's probably more 0:54:22.280 --> 0:54:23.279 understanding than well. 0:54:23.320 --> 0:54:25.480 He also has no I mean even now, he has 0:54:25.520 --> 0:54:28.320 no acknowledgment of like his trauma. So yeah, even in 0:54:28.640 --> 0:54:31.160 the actual moment, I mean, you're probably even more defensive. 0:54:31.200 --> 0:54:31.360 You know. 0:54:31.520 --> 0:54:31.719 Yeah. 0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:35.880 In nineteen forty seven, Kissinger finally decides to leave Germany 0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:39.240 for the second time. On Fritz Kramer's advice. He applies. 0:54:40.000 --> 0:54:42.680 He applies late to Harvard, and he was accepted, winning 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:45.239 one of the two national scholarships the school gave New 0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:46.040 Yorkers each year. 0:54:46.280 --> 0:54:49.840 Wow, now, chop trap house did a tournament of evil 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:50.840 people from Harvard. 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:57.040 It's a and a Kissinger one. So yeah, that makes sense. 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:03.680 Oh bo, the IVY League no good at producing bad people. 0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:08.480 Maybe we should look into that one. So one of 0:55:08.560 --> 0:55:11.359 his classmates recalls, and he obviously he does. Like it's 0:55:11.360 --> 0:55:14.000 Henry Kissinger. He's very good at school. One of his 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:17.040 classmates recalls that he quote worked harder and studied more 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:18.480 than anybody else on campus. 0:55:18.840 --> 0:55:21.400 He school. He at school. 0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:24.000 He couldn't stop him from shoving pencils. 0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:26.120 In his mouth the campus like Godzilla would have. He 0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:27.000 nearly died. 0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:32.400 He almost died from lead. His studies so absorbed him 0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:34.840 that he ignored the people around him. He made quote 0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:38.040 no lasting friendships with other students. He seemed scarcely aware 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:41.239 of the extraordinary range of people gathered around him. So 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:45.000 Kissinger's ideology evolved along the lines Kramer had started him 0:55:45.040 --> 0:55:47.960 off on. He agreed with Girtha I believe, as the 0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:50.319 name of the German philosopher that if he quote had 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:53.160 to choose between justice and disorder on the one hand, 0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:55.920 an injustice in order on the other, I would always 0:55:56.000 --> 0:55:56.640 choose the latter. 0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:58.120 So, well, there we go. 0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:03.360 He's made his choice very telling, Like we know, we know, 0:56:03.640 --> 0:56:06.279 we get up. Yeah, it's just nice to know where 0:56:06.440 --> 0:56:09.640 like around the time, Like, okay, so he was pretty defined. Okay, 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:12.360 So Henry, you know some other people who thought that 0:56:12.520 --> 0:56:16.480 order was more important than justice. Yeah, they had an 0:56:16.520 --> 0:56:21.160 impact on your child. Yeah yeah, no shit, yeah, but yeah, 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:23.279 it's just such a too. 0:56:23.400 --> 0:56:26.560 It's a strange thing that it's so conscious, like he yeah, 0:56:26.920 --> 0:56:28.800 he's so completely aware of it. 0:56:29.280 --> 0:56:32.719 Yeah, Like he's like a psychopath. He might be. 0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:35.400 I mean, I think if you're I try to do 0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:38.680 too much like the psychoanalyzing people. But like fucking maybe. 0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:42.960 Right, Well, psychopaths are very good at the stuff you 0:56:43.040 --> 0:56:47.279 talked about winning people over in the room, you know, ladies, man, 0:56:47.400 --> 0:56:50.000 Like there is a they learn how to be a 0:56:50.120 --> 0:56:52.480 human and then they sort of and. 0:56:52.560 --> 0:56:54.560 A lot of you got syphlicid camp and a lot 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:57.960 of them simplicit camp like Henry Kissingerry Well, Sophie. 0:56:58.000 --> 0:57:00.600 Can we let's green light some Henry kiss some t 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:03.120 shirts that are just Henry Kissinger with his face riding 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:05.040 off from syphilis. People are gonna want to wear them. 0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:11.920 He's making the kissy lips and his lips are falling 0:57:12.000 --> 0:57:18.160 off like a Kissinger. Let me French Kissinger you. 0:57:21.360 --> 0:57:24.800 So he meets his second mentor at Harvard. Henry Kissinger 0:57:24.840 --> 0:57:26.680 has a lot of mentors, and this is maybe a 0:57:26.760 --> 0:57:30.520 lesson to never mentor anybody. You never know they might 0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:35.440 become Henry Kissinger. Yeah, don't teach people things. Sabotage them 0:57:35.520 --> 0:57:38.840 at every step. Right next time you drive past a kindergarten, 0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:41.800 throw him a textbook that's all lies, you know, Just 0:57:42.800 --> 0:57:48.160 slow him down. So his second mentor is this guy, 0:57:48.280 --> 0:57:52.360 William yandell Elliott. And Elliott has is a professor at Harvard. 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:55.440 He's also like very politically connected. He had advised several 0:57:55.600 --> 0:57:59.480 US presidents on international matters. And Kissinger was drawn to 0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:02.080 this guy because not only is he a respected educator, 0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:05.800 but he's really well connected to people with power. And 0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:09.120 Elliott one of the things that like, he is famous 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:11.760 for being a big advocate of is is what's called 0:58:11.840 --> 0:58:16.600 real politique as embodied by you know, and particularly the 0:58:16.680 --> 0:58:19.680 guys that Kissinger grows up admiring, and that Elliott, you know, 0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:23.000 helps teach him to admire. I'm in like Klauswitz and Bismarck, 0:58:23.360 --> 0:58:25.640 these these these guys who are like Bismarck is the 0:58:25.720 --> 0:58:28.240 dude who makes Germany right, we have it, We get 0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:32.040 a Germany because Bismarck orchestrates, over a period of like 0:58:32.120 --> 0:58:35.680 I think it's decades, gradually he welds all these different 0:58:35.760 --> 0:58:39.400 German principalities and kingships together and then helps to orchestrate 0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:42.320 this war, which out of which emerges Germany. Like that's 0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:44.840 the kind of dude that Auto von Bismarck is, and 0:58:45.400 --> 0:58:47.480 he is kind of the master of the kind of 0:58:47.560 --> 0:58:51.480 politics that Kissinger comes to respect. And he Kissinger calls 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:54.840 Klauswitz and Bismarck philosophers of history. That's how he sees 0:58:54.920 --> 0:58:59.120 this guy, these guys which is not really what I 0:58:59.120 --> 0:59:01.120 would call out of on Mark, Like he's very good 0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:04.160 at what he does, obviously, but not I wouldn't call 0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:07.280 him a philosopher. I want to quote now from the 0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:11.400 book Kissinger's Shadow by Greg Grandon. From these thinkers, Kissinger 0:59:11.440 --> 0:59:14.120 cobbled together his own view of how history operated. It 0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:17.560 was not a story of liberal progress or of class consciousness, 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:20.640 or of cycles of history, or of cycles of birth, maturity, 0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:24.440 and decline. Rather, it was a series of meaningless incidents 0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:27.960 fleetingly given shape by the application of human will. As 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:31.240 a young infantryman, Kissinger had learned that victors ransacked history 0:59:31.320 --> 0:59:34.439 for analogies to gild their triumphs. Well the vanquished sought 0:59:34.480 --> 0:59:41.000 out historical causes of their misfortune. So, yeah, yeah, you 0:59:41.120 --> 0:59:47.120 know stuff, it's it's maybe not yeah, yeah, you can 0:59:47.160 --> 0:59:52.280 think about that however you want. So a lot of 0:59:52.320 --> 0:59:57.000 folks who analyze the the Kissinger in this period seize 0:59:57.000 --> 1:00:00.320 on one sentence in Kissinger's undergraduate thesis, and his thesis 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:02.920 is titled The Meaning of History that they can kind 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:05.760 of explains a lot of what comes to be going down. 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:09.680 What an old paper it is, right, I mean, honestly, 1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:13.360 he's not a dude who makes like little leaps, right, Yeah, 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:18.000 why do we love this is the line. 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:22.080 The realm of freedom and necessity cannot be reconciled except 1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:27.200 by an inward experience, which is you know, read it again, 1:00:27.600 --> 1:00:31.680 the realm of freedom and necessity cannot be reconciled except 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:33.200 by an inward experience. 1:00:33.920 --> 1:00:35.360 Wow, and this is this is a. 1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:40.280 Like a heavily influenced by French existentialism. His thesis cites 1:00:40.360 --> 1:00:43.440 Jean Paul Sart a lot, and both Start and Kissinger 1:00:43.560 --> 1:00:46.880 think that morality is not an inward thing. It's determined 1:00:46.880 --> 1:00:49.160 by actions, which is not an unreasonable thing to believe, 1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:51.000 right that, like what matters is what you do. You know, 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:53.200 there's that line from the Bible. You're not damned by 1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:55.000 what goes into your head, but like what you know 1:00:55.120 --> 1:00:58.640 comes out right, Like, that's not an unreasonable thing to believe. 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:03.840 Start he believes that like action creates the possibility of intellect, 1:01:04.120 --> 1:01:08.120 individual and collective responsibility. Right, that morality is determined by action, 1:01:08.320 --> 1:01:11.880 but that our actions create this possibility of like individual 1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:16.120 and collective moral responsibility for things. Kissinger does not come 1:01:16.160 --> 1:01:19.840 to that conclusion. Kissinger believes that morality is determined by action, 1:01:20.400 --> 1:01:24.160 but he also thinks that, like you, moral indeterminacy is 1:01:24.200 --> 1:01:25.360 a condition of human freedom. 1:01:25.400 --> 1:01:26.720 It's this idea that you. 1:01:26.840 --> 1:01:31.200 Can't be bound by morality and be free. If you 1:01:31.280 --> 1:01:33.320 want to freely act, you have to be able to 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:35.120 act above morality, right, Look. 1:01:35.080 --> 1:01:39.440 That's yeah, so that's that's just giving yourself an excuse 1:01:39.520 --> 1:01:40.560 to do heinous acts. 1:01:41.720 --> 1:01:44.400 I mean, a lot of his intellectual development is him, 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:46.360 and I'll you know, also a lot of this is 1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:48.760 obviously all of this. One of the things that you 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:50.800 have to account for is all of this analysis of 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:53.400 like his development intellectually comes after he does all the 1:01:53.440 --> 1:01:57.640 horrible things like so sure right from him and from 1:01:57.720 --> 1:01:59.280 like the people who are sources who are saying this 1:01:59.360 --> 1:02:00.920 is what he was, like is a kid. There is 1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:04.120 that degree of biasing, right, like that this is after 1:02:04.280 --> 1:02:05.880 he is the person that he is, Because if he 1:02:05.920 --> 1:02:08.760 had gone on to like just be a professor, nobody 1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:10.400 would have given a shit about what Henry. 1:02:10.240 --> 1:02:12.680 Kiss the accountant said that. I'd be like, yeah, look, 1:02:12.800 --> 1:02:13.960 just you what do I owe? 1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:16.840 Yeah? Yeah, tell me what the irs gets? Man, don't 1:02:16.880 --> 1:02:18.240 I don't need another lecture on this. 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:22.360 Yeah. And Kissinger's the fact that he becomes so kind of. 1:02:23.960 --> 1:02:25.800 Moral relativism is the word of use. I don't even 1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:27.720 know if that's right, but like this idea that like 1:02:28.360 --> 1:02:31.640 freedom and morality are kind of like inherently opposed. This 1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:34.000 upsets a lot of people around him, including people who 1:02:34.080 --> 1:02:38.280 are like his big supporters, including that professor Elliott guy 1:02:38.720 --> 1:02:42.320 at his retirement party, Henry Kissinger. Elliott's retirement party, Henry 1:02:42.360 --> 1:02:44.440 Kissinger and a number of students gather to like bid 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:48.520 him farewell, and journalist David Helberstam wrote that Elliott had 1:02:48.600 --> 1:02:51.000 positive things to say about almost all of his students 1:02:51.000 --> 1:02:53.600 who had gathered there, but when he reached Kissinger, he 1:02:53.720 --> 1:02:57.920 said this, Henry, He began, You're brilliant, but you're arrogant. 1:02:58.120 --> 1:03:00.520 In fact, you're the most arrogant man I've ever met. 1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:05.000 Kissinger became ashen faced. Mark my words. Elliott continued, your 1:03:05.120 --> 1:03:07.480 arrogance is going to get you in real trouble one day. 1:03:07.920 --> 1:03:11.720 Oh oh, that is amazing so many levels, like at 1:03:11.800 --> 1:03:14.439 your retirement party to be like hey and you listen, 1:03:14.560 --> 1:03:18.040 ship bag, chill out, and then for that also to 1:03:18.160 --> 1:03:22.000 be totally incorrect, Like you know, I saw this like 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:26.120 clip of some some guy in like Atlantic City talking 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:28.080 to Trump when Trump is going like, well, what is 1:03:28.360 --> 1:03:31.080 what makes a native American? And the guy just goes, sir, 1:03:31.480 --> 1:03:34.000 I'm glad You're never gonna get into any real power. 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:38.800 And you're like, oh, dude, oh dude, well, and one 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:41.200 of the things like this, the Professor Elliott is like 1:03:41.320 --> 1:03:43.200 one of the guys who helps get him his first 1:03:43.240 --> 1:03:45.560 big gigs and shit, like he's a major bass and 1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:48.200 I think this is kind of him belatedly being. 1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:52.640 Like, well no ooops boosy, poopsy, poopsy, poopsie. 1:03:52.480 --> 1:03:55.640 I'm gonna go patronize a Cambodian restaurant just to make 1:03:55.680 --> 1:03:59.600 myself feel of the more. Yeah right, real well, when 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:02.439 he went like, dude, just give me the tip slip. 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:04.439 Don't I know the food, Just give me a tip slip. 1:04:04.560 --> 1:04:06.360 I owe you guys. I'm not going to tell you why. 1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:09.280 Here you go, don't worry about it. Take my take everything. 1:04:10.120 --> 1:04:12.160 Here's my pin hanged. I gotta go. Do you know 1:04:12.200 --> 1:04:15.440 if there's a Bangladeshi restaurant nearby? I'm actually heading a 1:04:15.560 --> 1:04:17.880 lot of spots tonight in not eating. I'll be honest. 1:04:18.880 --> 1:04:22.720 I'm going to a lot of places. No no, not German, No, 1:04:22.800 --> 1:04:24.880 not German, no, no, not German. You know what, They're 1:04:24.960 --> 1:04:27.000 actually fine? I don't think I Yeah. 1:04:28.840 --> 1:04:31.680 So his thesis him, well, that that thing that that 1:04:31.840 --> 1:04:36.400 he says to Kissinger, it it should be what happens. 1:04:36.560 --> 1:04:41.640 But our society rewards psychopaths above anybody else, and. 1:04:42.000 --> 1:04:43.919 To be most societies. 1:04:44.320 --> 1:04:47.360 Yeah, so what the things should be is the opposite. 1:04:47.600 --> 1:04:51.040 What he's talking about is a just world, which. 1:04:50.960 --> 1:04:51.880 Isn't what this is. 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:54.480 And it's it's one of those things. This is something 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.360 like that. Get kind of more into anthropological thinking. But like, 1:04:57.960 --> 1:05:00.600 one of the reasons people will say, like why we 1:05:00.720 --> 1:05:04.000 have psychopaths is that if you're in a band of 1:05:04.120 --> 1:05:07.240 seventy people who are like hunter gatherers, starving through the winter, 1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:10.840 it's helpful to have a guy like Henry Kissinger. You 1:05:10.880 --> 1:05:13.840 can say, like, well, these six people are too old 1:05:13.920 --> 1:05:15.880 and sick, and we have to let them die otherwise 1:05:15.920 --> 1:05:18.320 we'll all starve. Right, that's a situation which it's good 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:20.320 to have a psychopath because you need someone who just 1:05:20.400 --> 1:05:23.200 doesn't give a shit about certain things. When you have 1:05:23.280 --> 1:05:26.600 a society of billions that's global, it becomes a problem 1:05:26.720 --> 1:05:29.240 because that kind of thinking is not so useful and 1:05:29.600 --> 1:05:31.760 tends to just get millions and millions of people killed. 1:05:33.800 --> 1:05:38.280 It's not great anyway. Henry's thesis is published in nineteen 1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:41.000 fifty at roughly the same time Harry Truman decides to 1:05:41.160 --> 1:05:44.400 send troops to Korea and to aid French forces in Vietnam. 1:05:44.880 --> 1:05:47.600 Professor Elliott told Kissinger that the Korean War was an 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:53.240 example of the East quote testing the civilization of the West. Yeah, 1:05:53.400 --> 1:05:55.680 people doing their own thing in their own country is 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:59.880 a test to us, like the Koreans in the Vietnamese 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:03.400 having completely their own shit going on as a test 1:06:03.480 --> 1:06:05.160 of us in the United States. 1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:06.120 How dare you? 1:06:07.000 --> 1:06:09.120 You know, ho Chi men not wanting to be ruled 1:06:09.160 --> 1:06:12.000 over by the French is really a test of American power. 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:15.280 It's very sting, I mean, and obviously they see that, 1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:17.600 like the Soviet Union's ormonstrating all this, and the Soviet 1:06:17.720 --> 1:06:18.800 Union is involved too. 1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:21.240 But like they're looking at us in the eyes. They've 1:06:21.280 --> 1:06:24.120 got their own shit going on. Dude, they are on 1:06:24.240 --> 1:06:26.880 the same level. How dare they do this? 1:06:30.680 --> 1:06:33.479 So, as the US increased its commitments to a growing 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:36.960 series of wars in Southeast Asia, Kissingery got more dedicated 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:40.920 to the work of a guy named Oswald Spangler. Spangler's 1:06:40.960 --> 1:06:43.120 book The Declient of the West is not something I 1:06:43.200 --> 1:06:45.800 am well equipped to describe or explain in detail, but 1:06:45.960 --> 1:06:47.919 Greg Grandon is, so I'm going to quote from him again. 1:06:49.320 --> 1:06:52.680 Spangler waged a relentless assault on the very idea of reality. 1:06:52.960 --> 1:06:55.600 He insisted that there existed a higher plane of experience 1:06:55.640 --> 1:06:58.800 that was inaccessible to rational thought, a plane where instinct, 1:06:58.840 --> 1:07:02.360 in creativity rain we have, Spengler thought, hardly, yet an 1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:05.200 inkling of how much in our reputedly objective values and 1:07:05.280 --> 1:07:09.440 experiences is only disguise, only image and expression. To get 1:07:09.480 --> 1:07:13.400 behind image and expression, to penetrate perceived material power and interests, 1:07:13.640 --> 1:07:17.520 and grasp what Spinler called destiny, one needed not information 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:21.520 but intuition, not facts but hunches, not reason but a 1:07:21.640 --> 1:07:25.440 soul sense, a world feeling. Often enough, a statesman does 1:07:25.520 --> 1:07:28.360 not follow, does not know what he is doing, Spengler wrote, 1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:31.360 But that does not prevent him from following with confidence. 1:07:31.560 --> 1:07:33.440 Just the one path that leads to success. 1:07:33.720 --> 1:07:36.000 Oh my god, and that is George W. Bush crawl 1:07:36.040 --> 1:07:40.760 out of a pile of goon now I means for 1:07:40.960 --> 1:07:41.600 our freedom. 1:07:42.680 --> 1:07:49.880 George Bush like pops out of Henry's Kissinger's back, is Apollo's. 1:07:50.000 --> 1:07:53.280 Rumsfeld bush like thing like way now where they are 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:55.160 there in the east west north and. 1:07:59.520 --> 1:08:03.280 Kissinger finds this logic intoxicating, But he did disagree with 1:08:03.320 --> 1:08:07.040 Spingler about Spengler's primary contention, which is that civilizational decay 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:11.480 was inevitable. Spengler argued that civilizations had spring, summers, autumns, 1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:13.560 and winters, right, that they proceed through kind of like 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:16.920 inevitable stages, and there's not really any way to stop 1:08:17.000 --> 1:08:19.920 this procession, right, which is I think a pretty reasonable 1:08:19.960 --> 1:08:21.600 like yeah, and civilization is going to have like a 1:08:21.640 --> 1:08:23.920 life cycle, right, that's a thing like historically you can 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:27.160 argue pretty well, Kissinger doesn't believe. 1:08:26.880 --> 1:08:31.520 This everything dies. Yeah, well that's actually. 1:08:31.360 --> 1:08:31.600 Not with. 1:08:34.160 --> 1:08:36.679 Of course, the man who is like living way beyond 1:08:36.800 --> 1:08:41.320 his shelf life is like told you so, doesn't die. 1:08:42.120 --> 1:08:45.080 So here's grand and again talking about Kissinger. How Kissinger 1:08:45.120 --> 1:08:48.240 grapples with this aspect of Spangler having lost a sense 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:51.360 of purpose. Civilizations lurch outward defined, meaning they get caught 1:08:51.439 --> 1:08:54.000 up in a series of disastrous wars, propelled forward to 1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:57.679 doom by history's cosmic beat, power for power's sake, blood 1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:01.599 for blood. Imperialism is the inevitable product of this final stage, 1:09:01.680 --> 1:09:04.559 Kissinger wrote, summing up the decline of the West's argument 1:09:04.880 --> 1:09:08.280 an outward thrust to hide the inner void. Kissinger accepted 1:09:08.320 --> 1:09:13.160 Spengler's critique of past civilizations, but rejected his determinism. Decay 1:09:13.360 --> 1:09:17.160 was not inevitable, Spengler, Kissinger said, merely described a fact 1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:20.320 of decline, and not its necessity. There is a margin, 1:09:20.400 --> 1:09:23.400 he would write in his memoirs, between necessity and accident, 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:27.080 in which the statesman, by perseverance and intuition, must choose 1:09:27.120 --> 1:09:30.920 and thereby shape the destiny of his people. So Spingler's like, yeah, 1:09:30.960 --> 1:09:33.280 it seems like when civilizations lose their purpose and start 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:35.519 to age, they lurch out what engage in wars of 1:09:35.560 --> 1:09:37.960 imperial conquest and a search for meaning, and that leads 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:40.479 to disaster, which destroys them. And Kissinger's like, but what 1:09:40.600 --> 1:09:41.559 if you did the War's right? 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:46.839 Yeah, but you were well what if I was involved 1:09:46.880 --> 1:09:50.680 in everyone? What if I was like Mickey in the 1:09:50.760 --> 1:09:51.639 corner of Rockie. 1:09:52.000 --> 1:09:54.640 Yeah, it's it isn't amazing, like this guy being like, 1:09:54.880 --> 1:09:57.559 here is what happens to empires every single time there's 1:09:57.560 --> 1:09:59.599 an empire. This is a thing you can go through 1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:02.400 history and see constantly occurs through thousands of years. 1:10:02.600 --> 1:10:04.720 And Kisser's just like, no, I can do it, right, 1:10:05.160 --> 1:10:07.960 But to be like, no, you're pretty you're pretty close. 1:10:08.200 --> 1:10:11.559 You're pretty close. Bah I saw. 1:10:11.720 --> 1:10:14.320 I'm just thinking kill more like I heard what you 1:10:14.439 --> 1:10:17.600 said ups and downs, but I think you wipe everybody. 1:10:17.240 --> 1:10:19.280 Out, you know, if you try to get blood. 1:10:19.520 --> 1:10:21.720 It is the same logic I have seen. Every time 1:10:21.760 --> 1:10:25.200 I've seen more than one person get stuck in the mud, 1:10:25.600 --> 1:10:27.439 it's always either one person gets stuck in the mud 1:10:27.520 --> 1:10:29.320 or fifty two. Because one person gets stuck in the 1:10:29.360 --> 1:10:31.519 mud and the other forty nine go well, I saw 1:10:31.560 --> 1:10:32.920 it happened to that guy. But I think I can 1:10:33.000 --> 1:10:34.160 figure it out. I can get around. 1:10:34.640 --> 1:10:34.840 Yeah. 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:39.559 Yeah, yeah. It's almost like when you enter Congress. I've 1:10:39.560 --> 1:10:42.720 got a plan. I've got a plan. Oh I get money. Oh, 1:10:42.800 --> 1:10:43.800 never mind, I don't have a plan. 1:10:45.080 --> 1:10:45.280 Plan. 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:47.800 Yeah, well, I have a plan, but it's a different one, 1:10:47.840 --> 1:10:49.519 and you are not going to like it a lot. 1:10:49.640 --> 1:10:50.880 More about a pool. Yeah. 1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:57.640 In nineteen fifty one, Henry got a gig working as 1:10:57.640 --> 1:11:00.479 a consultant with the Army on psychological war fair while 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:04.000 he finished his graduate studies. Kissinger's doctoral thesis on the 1:11:04.080 --> 1:11:07.120 Congress of Vienna did not seem overly relevant to politics, 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:10.679 but its first sentence had discussed nuclear weapons and proposed 1:11:10.720 --> 1:11:12.960 to readers that the efforts of British and Australia, and 1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:15.960 that the efforts the British and Austrians made to contain 1:11:16.040 --> 1:11:19.439 Napoleon might be useful in handling the Soviet Union. I 1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:22.439 might argue, did Napoleon have a way to end all 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:26.120 life on Earth if things went badly with Containa? Was 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:27.760 that a factor in Napoleon. 1:11:30.880 --> 1:11:31.360 A sword? 1:11:32.280 --> 1:11:35.679 Kissinger believes he sees that containment is a failure, which 1:11:35.720 --> 1:11:39.080 it is because people do not like being colonies, and 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:42.639 if the opposition to being a colony is communism, they'll 1:11:42.640 --> 1:11:44.920 be like, well, let's try communism. Being a colony seems 1:11:44.960 --> 1:11:49.439 to suck. So Kissinger sees that containment is a failure. 1:11:50.200 --> 1:11:52.920 But he also believes believes not that like, well, why 1:11:52.920 --> 1:11:55.120 don't we just like let people do things and like 1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:57.040 just take care of our own shit. He's like, no, 1:11:57.280 --> 1:11:58.960 because containment's a failure, war with. 1:11:59.000 --> 1:12:00.720 The Soviet Union is inevitable. 1:12:01.240 --> 1:12:03.600 Now, in Kissinger's view, this has nothing to do with 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:06.880 the actions of the United States, but as instead quote, 1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:09.760 because of the existence of the United States as a 1:12:09.880 --> 1:12:14.120 symbol of capitalist democracy. It is literally the early extent 1:12:14.200 --> 1:12:16.920 of like, well, they hate us for our freedom, right right, yeah, right, yeah, 1:12:17.080 --> 1:12:20.519 Like that's that's that's where he's starting down. Obviously a 1:12:20.560 --> 1:12:22.080 lot of people are saying shit like this, right, this 1:12:22.200 --> 1:12:23.960 is not a Kissinger invention. You know, you've got the 1:12:24.040 --> 1:12:26.120 John Birch Society all sorts of shits. Yeah, on this period, 1:12:26.120 --> 1:12:27.439 I don't want to give him too much credit there. 1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:29.960 It's clear by this point that Henry was going to 1:12:30.000 --> 1:12:34.080 get into politics, although law enforcement was a possibility too, 1:12:34.160 --> 1:12:36.720 because when heked on, he gets he starts being a 1:12:36.800 --> 1:12:39.400 professor at Harvard right like after he graduates and stuff. 1:12:39.400 --> 1:12:41.919 He starts like helping out his stuff and teaching some classes. 1:12:42.320 --> 1:12:45.280 And at one point the school hosts an international seminar, 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:47.960 and when he hears that like a bunch of foreign 1:12:48.240 --> 1:12:51.600 academics are coming to Harvard, he calls the FBI and 1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:55.439 volunteers to spy on people for as. 1:12:56.000 --> 1:12:59.880 I mean, honestly, it is so amazing with his background 1:13:00.520 --> 1:13:03.280 to be like to have that attitude. It just is, 1:13:03.640 --> 1:13:06.479 it really is. It's hard. It's hard to get there. 1:13:08.160 --> 1:13:10.639 You got to give him credit. The man covers some ground. 1:13:10.720 --> 1:13:13.960 The man is a Batman villain, Yeah, he really is. 1:13:14.080 --> 1:13:18.120 So Yeah, his love of politics and his first attempt 1:13:18.160 --> 1:13:20.719 to build influence at Harvard Is by starting a journal 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:24.240 named Confluence. Now, this is ostensibly a journal that exists 1:13:24.280 --> 1:13:27.320 to create what he calls an international forum for discussion. Right, 1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:29.000 I just want to get good people talking from all 1:13:29.040 --> 1:13:30.800 around the world, you know, let the ideas fly. It's 1:13:30.800 --> 1:13:33.559 like got Ted talk kind of pitch. Sure, but he's 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:35.920 really vague about He doesn't really seem to care about 1:13:35.920 --> 1:13:39.519 what particular discussions he encourages, and his critics would later 1:13:39.560 --> 1:13:42.280 claim that this journal was quote a fake, primarily an 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:46.080 enterprise designed to make Kissinger known to powerful people. Right, Yeah, 1:13:46.200 --> 1:13:49.080 like he's just giving letting powerful people write articles because 1:13:49.080 --> 1:13:50.720 then he gets them in and he gets their their 1:13:50.760 --> 1:13:55.439 phone number. Right, it's they're mainly working. Yeah, he's not working. 1:13:56.360 --> 1:13:59.400 Confluence leads to Henry's first mention in the pages of 1:13:59.439 --> 1:14:02.320 the New York Time Times, and despite what his critics claim, 1:14:02.400 --> 1:14:05.200 which is probably broadly accurate, the journal did also publish 1:14:05.280 --> 1:14:09.080 some really significant figures, including Reinhold Neighbor and Hannah Rint. 1:14:09.479 --> 1:14:12.400 But while he claimed commitment to free discourse, Kissinger had 1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:16.639 a real tendency to publish right wing shitheads, including Enoch Powell, 1:14:16.720 --> 1:14:20.479 a conservative British politician famous for comparing immigration to quote 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:21.519 rivers of blood. 1:14:22.080 --> 1:14:24.400 Well, that's fair. I mean I've always agreed with that. 1:14:24.600 --> 1:14:30.080 I mean, that is just sovers. I love a blood river. Oh, 1:14:31.200 --> 1:14:34.160 the laziest of rivers. Mm yeah, because you float real good. 1:14:34.200 --> 1:14:36.520 Oh yeah, yeah, it's molasses. 1:14:37.400 --> 1:14:40.880 That's freedom you can if you can say immigrants are 1:14:40.960 --> 1:14:44.679 like a river of blood, that's the freedom he's talking about. 1:14:44.840 --> 1:14:45.479 That's the freedom. 1:14:45.880 --> 1:14:48.040 You want to know what other kind of freedoms he's interested. 1:14:50.280 --> 1:14:53.040 I'm going to quote from Nil Ferguson from the book 1:14:53.080 --> 1:14:57.439 Kissinger here an article by Ernst von Sullomon, a right 1:14:57.520 --> 1:14:59.880 wing German writer who had been convicted for his role 1:15:00.120 --> 1:15:03.720 the assassination of Walter Rathanow, a German foreign minister in 1:15:03.760 --> 1:15:06.960 the Weimar Republic. The article provoked an angry letter from 1:15:07.000 --> 1:15:09.519 Shepherd Stone of the Ford Foundation, who had provided money 1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:12.320 for both the International Seminar and the journal. So, first note, 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:17.240 he publishes a guy who's basically pretty close to a Nazi, 1:15:17.400 --> 1:15:20.840 a far right German terrorist in the in the Weimar years, 1:15:21.240 --> 1:15:24.639 and it's so upsetting that a representative of the Ford 1:15:24.760 --> 1:15:25.960 Foundation complaints. 1:15:26.479 --> 1:15:30.759 I mean, if you can upset the you're crossing that line. 1:15:31.000 --> 1:15:33.600 If the Ford Foundation is like your connection to a 1:15:33.720 --> 1:15:35.080 Nazi worries met. 1:15:35.000 --> 1:15:37.680 Hey you have, and that's coming from us who I'm 1:15:37.720 --> 1:15:41.679 really who we are, like tuper find of that look. 1:15:41.760 --> 1:15:44.559 I have the protocols of the Elders of Zion tattooed 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:48.679 on my chest. But Ford Foundation employees, I'm gonna. 1:15:48.439 --> 1:15:50.160 Throw a flag on the play. I'm still a flag 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:52.880 in the play. And are Carr's coming out the Ford 1:15:53.000 --> 1:16:02.639 Ta yeah, oh man so quote. 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:05.160 Stone was appalled that Kissinger would publish an article by 1:16:05.160 --> 1:16:08.200 a criminal and a Nazi sympathizer like Solomon. Kissinger told 1:16:08.280 --> 1:16:10.920 Stone he disliked Solomon and opposed what he stood for, 1:16:11.160 --> 1:16:15.000 considering him a damned soul driven by the furies. Demonstrating 1:16:15.040 --> 1:16:18.120 a remarkable self confidence for a graduate student, Kissinger defended 1:16:18.200 --> 1:16:21.240 himself for publishing the article. I may air occasionally on 1:16:21.320 --> 1:16:23.559 the side of two great tolerance, partly because I believe 1:16:23.600 --> 1:16:26.799 our readers sufficiently mature to make their own judgments. Kissinger 1:16:26.920 --> 1:16:30.000 argued that what Solomon represented was a symptom of certain 1:16:30.080 --> 1:16:32.600 tendencies of our age, but that by appearing in a 1:16:32.680 --> 1:16:36.280 liberal journal like Confluence, Solomon was the one who was compromised. 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:39.960 Kissinger was not simply defending free speech. He had solicited 1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:43.200 the article from Solomon, telling the German about quote, having 1:16:43.280 --> 1:16:45.840 long admired your writing. See, hom I could not share 1:16:45.920 --> 1:16:50.560 your point of view. What so it gets better and 1:16:50.680 --> 1:16:53.560 more relevant to today because when there's an outcry against this, 1:16:53.720 --> 1:16:56.800 Kissinger writes a letter to his friend Kramer and says, 1:16:56.880 --> 1:16:59.200 I have now joined you as the cardinal villain in 1:16:59.320 --> 1:17:00.520 liberal demail analogy. 1:17:01.160 --> 1:17:04.760 Oh my god, this is he's just doing it. Now, 1:17:05.160 --> 1:17:07.680 he's just doing it. Now, he's got the monicle that too. 1:17:08.080 --> 1:17:10.759 It's like you're Glenn Greenwald talked to Joe Rogan. 1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:13.040 Yes, It's like, what the how? 1:17:13.479 --> 1:17:17.160 How is this still happening? How are you the pioneer 1:17:17.280 --> 1:17:20.560 of this? Henry Kissinger? How are you the pioneer of this? 1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:25.960 Oh? That's his explanation if you're if you're me just 1:17:26.040 --> 1:17:29.840 listening to like, uh okay, okay, I'm not sure what 1:17:29.960 --> 1:17:33.439 he's saying, but all right, okay, So we got to 1:17:33.520 --> 1:17:37.160 hear from this nazi who shot a dude? You okay 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:40.080 because you all right? Well, is it'll anger the lips 1:17:40.120 --> 1:17:41.759 as light as you said. It's cool. 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:45.240 And next next month we have ed Gean is doing 1:17:45.280 --> 1:17:45.799 a little. 1:17:45.720 --> 1:17:49.120 Number, and Deane's gonna walk us through lamp workings. 1:17:51.960 --> 1:17:56.240 So and then we're having the Zodiac Killer on to 1:17:56.320 --> 1:17:58.320 teach us about proper parking technique. 1:17:58.400 --> 1:18:05.040 Uh huh pentagram. He'd actually be pretty good at that. Yeah. 1:18:06.840 --> 1:18:10.040 So, once he had finished his dissertation and graduated, Henry 1:18:10.080 --> 1:18:12.240 found himself in need of like a steady He's doing 1:18:12.280 --> 1:18:13.800 like it wasn't a professor at that point, but he 1:18:13.920 --> 1:18:15.840 was like doing like graduate students, you know, helping to 1:18:15.920 --> 1:18:19.200 teach whatever. I didn't do a college so, but you 1:18:19.280 --> 1:18:21.560 know how grad students teach shit and stuff. But he 1:18:21.600 --> 1:18:23.880 wants like a full on gig. He's trying to get 1:18:24.200 --> 1:18:27.160 an actual full time job as an assistant professor, but 1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:30.519 he's not able to because most people don't like Henry Kissinger. 1:18:30.560 --> 1:18:34.559 I wonder any reason why a lot of people at 1:18:34.640 --> 1:18:42.599 Harvard not a huge fan loving the Nazi publishing June. Yeah, 1:18:43.080 --> 1:18:46.000 they are. They consider him slightly problematic. 1:18:46.840 --> 1:18:49.280 Drifts for a bit, he's unable to find work, you know, 1:18:49.320 --> 1:18:51.080 and he's still he's still doing some stuff at Harvard, 1:18:51.120 --> 1:18:53.800 but he's like not He's kind of a drift in 1:18:53.880 --> 1:18:56.599 his career until in nineteen fifty four he runs into 1:18:56.680 --> 1:19:00.800 a friend Arthur Slushinger, Junior at Harvard slashing our head 1:19:00.800 --> 1:19:03.240 a letter in his possession from a former Secretary of 1:19:03.280 --> 1:19:06.960 the Air Force defending Eisenhower. The Eisenhower administration standard of 1:19:07.000 --> 1:19:10.880 threatening massive retaliation for the to the Soviets. Now, the 1:19:10.920 --> 1:19:13.760 gist of this idea that the Eisenhower administration really kicked 1:19:13.760 --> 1:19:16.040 off was that if we promise the Soviets that if 1:19:16.040 --> 1:19:19.040 there's ever a confrontation, we will immediately like send out 1:19:19.040 --> 1:19:21.920 a world in inhale of nukes, right, then those lines 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:23.600 won't get crossed, Right, we won't have any kind of 1:19:23.640 --> 1:19:25.400 fight at all. If like that, if everyone knows those 1:19:25.439 --> 1:19:28.519 are the stakes, then nothing will happen. Right, That's the idea. 1:19:30.160 --> 1:19:33.160 Kissinger disagrees with this take, right, which is reasonable to 1:19:33.240 --> 1:19:35.160 disagree with. Right, there's a lot of problems with the 1:19:35.280 --> 1:19:37.560 we will in the world if there's any kind of issue. 1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:40.640 To take, he's gonna make it worse. He's gonna make 1:19:40.640 --> 1:19:41.160 it worse. 1:19:44.120 --> 1:19:47.559 He shared us that that's exactly what he does, Gareth, 1:19:47.960 --> 1:19:52.120 because because Kissingers, we'll talk about what he does in 1:19:52.200 --> 1:19:53.920 a bit. But he writes a letter kind of writing 1:19:53.960 --> 1:19:55.880 out some critiques to this, and he has his friend 1:19:55.960 --> 1:19:59.479 Nelson Rockefeller send it to Eisenhower. He's friends with Nelson Rockefeller, 1:19:59.520 --> 1:20:05.719 but su everyone is in this period. When the President 1:20:05.800 --> 1:20:09.160 rejects Kissinger's analysis, at the advice of John Foster Dullis, 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:12.680 Rockefeller resigns and he resigns from his job with the administration, 1:20:12.800 --> 1:20:16.920 which like temporarily closes a door to Henry. But the 1:20:17.040 --> 1:20:20.360 letter that Kissinger had received was well enough, like popular 1:20:20.479 --> 1:20:22.960 enough among other thinkers in Washington that it earns him 1:20:22.960 --> 1:20:25.639 a job offer heading a study group at the Council 1:20:25.680 --> 1:20:29.800 on Foreign Relations studying nuclear weapons and foreign policy. But 1:20:29.920 --> 1:20:32.920 of course, Henry's problem with massive retaliation wasn't that using 1:20:33.000 --> 1:20:36.160 nuclear weapons was unconscionable. It was that the world ending 1:20:36.280 --> 1:20:39.320 nature of the threats the Eisenhower administration was making meant 1:20:39.360 --> 1:20:42.080 they would never knew anybody. And Kissinger thought this was 1:20:42.120 --> 1:20:45.360 a terrible idea. So he thought that nuclear weapons should 1:20:45.400 --> 1:20:49.440 be used tactically to secure battlefield victories against the communists. 1:20:49.640 --> 1:20:52.479 What's happening? He thinks? 1:20:53.080 --> 1:20:55.519 He thinks it's bad to have nukes and not use them. 1:20:55.600 --> 1:20:58.840 He's yeah, that's his answer, that's his angle. What in 1:20:59.040 --> 1:20:59.719 the fuck? 1:21:00.640 --> 1:21:04.120 Yeah, it's wild that in this argument between if there's 1:21:04.160 --> 1:21:06.320 a fight, will kill everybody? Or what if we just 1:21:06.400 --> 1:21:09.280 try using nukes a little bit the kill everybody. Guys 1:21:09.360 --> 1:21:10.680 have the more reasonable take. 1:21:13.040 --> 1:21:16.679 I mean, really, you're close, you're close together. 1:21:17.200 --> 1:21:19.920 Yeah, we can get off a couple of much faster. 1:21:20.479 --> 1:21:23.320 It's it's incredible. And also but like again, this is 1:21:23.400 --> 1:21:26.920 this he's the people he's arguing with is the Eisenhower administration. 1:21:27.280 --> 1:21:30.479 Nelson Rockefeller is not a right winger who's like, this 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:33.200 guy's got some shit going on. You know, we should 1:21:33.280 --> 1:21:36.439 listen to him, and like, he's a lot of people 1:21:36.520 --> 1:21:40.760 who are not like, you know, hard right dudes are like, yeah, 1:21:40.800 --> 1:21:42.280 maybe it makes sense we got to be using these 1:21:42.320 --> 1:21:45.320 like tactical nuclear we consider the possibility. You know, he 1:21:45.439 --> 1:21:49.080 makes a good point. He uses smart words and about 1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:54.280 nuking folks words. So that is part one of our 1:21:54.320 --> 1:21:58.839 epic series Henry Kissinger Jesus Christ, dude, maybe become an accountant? 1:22:00.280 --> 1:22:00.840 What a guy. 1:22:01.760 --> 1:22:04.080 In part two we'll talk about how he gets into power. 1:22:04.160 --> 1:22:04.840 So that's going to be a. 1:22:04.840 --> 1:22:05.639 Hoot for everybody. 1:22:06.080 --> 1:22:08.719 But I feel like before we do that, you guys, 1:22:08.800 --> 1:22:10.960 do you guys like do you like them, like like 1:22:11.280 --> 1:22:15.880 like a giant influential popular podcast that maybe this, this 1:22:16.080 --> 1:22:18.120 podcast is heavily influenced by. 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:20.160 Is that something you guys do are you talking about Rogan? 1:22:20.439 --> 1:22:26.760 Yes, yes, you are both Joe Rogan, right, yeah, the 1:22:26.880 --> 1:22:30.240 doll Yes, the dollar it is your podcast, we believe, 1:22:32.200 --> 1:22:35.320 yes that that was your six part series, The Dollups. 1:22:35.320 --> 1:22:37.960 Why we need the nuke PI Go for it. 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:41.080 Check out The doll Up. 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:45.040 If you have not already. Just a fucking, very very 1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:45.919 funny podcast. 1:22:46.320 --> 1:22:48.559 You guys want to plug anything else before we roll 1:22:48.600 --> 1:22:49.360 out into part two? 1:22:49.479 --> 1:22:51.400 I mean my ears a couple of times during this, 1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:58.080 but yeah, well you can dot com. We're on tour 1:22:58.160 --> 1:23:02.519 all over the place and domestically soon. That will be 1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:06.519 very exciting. I am excited for tour touring to exist 1:23:06.600 --> 1:23:12.240 again in our lives. Yeah, fingers crossed until part two. 1:23:12.439 --> 1:23:16.719 Go home and read some Oswald Spangler and then disagree 1:23:16.760 --> 1:23:18.840 with it in a way that makes you much much worse. 1:23:19.080 --> 1:23:21.679 Yep, yes, put the monica on the bad eye. 1:23:22.120 --> 1:23:33.760 Yeah all right, Oh, welcome back to what is either 1:23:34.040 --> 1:23:37.360 Behind the doll Up or Dollup the Bastards, a podcast that, 1:23:37.640 --> 1:23:40.200 no matter what name we choose for it is about 1:23:40.320 --> 1:23:42.759 tickling absolutely. 1:23:42.320 --> 1:23:45.200 This finally, is that's how you make us feel at home? 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:45.640 Thank you. 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:48.599 Do you think anyone has ever tickled Kissinger? 1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:51.880 I can't imagine. I cannot picture it in my head. 1:23:52.240 --> 1:23:57.960 This is the way he would laugh. Stop it, I'm 1:23:58.040 --> 1:23:59.599 going to work with my pants. 1:24:06.640 --> 1:24:10.920 I just try to imagine him whispering into the ears 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:12.559 of a sexual partner something. 1:24:14.560 --> 1:24:18.800 I'm about I'm going to know. It'd be more like 1:24:19.080 --> 1:24:29.360 I'm going to end this corpse. Only one of us 1:24:29.479 --> 1:24:33.880 makes it out a lie. I actually did. 1:24:34.000 --> 1:24:36.479 While we were taking a break in between episodes, I 1:24:36.600 --> 1:24:38.599 had a moment where I actually did for the first 1:24:38.640 --> 1:24:40.680 time in my life, I felt a profound sense of 1:24:40.760 --> 1:24:44.799 solidarity with Henry Kissinger. My cat is named Saddam Hussein, 1:24:44.960 --> 1:24:48.200 and as I was feeding him during the break, I realized, 1:24:48.360 --> 1:24:51.040 like Kissinger did at one point, he's gotten much bigger. 1:24:51.080 --> 1:24:53.760 Saddam has gotten much larger than I ever thought he would. 1:24:54.200 --> 1:24:58.040 You know this is I did not anticipate this. Yeah, 1:24:59.360 --> 1:25:02.120 well that's because you there's a lot to love what 1:25:02.240 --> 1:25:08.240 you just said. Kissinger wouldn't make the same mistake. Oh 1:25:10.200 --> 1:25:14.280 so yes, let's uh, let's uh, let's get get right 1:25:14.360 --> 1:25:18.320 back down. What is for Kissinger memory Lane and is 1:25:18.479 --> 1:25:22.680 what for everyone else is Nightmare Avenue, because this is 1:25:22.760 --> 1:25:26.280 the story about why Vietnam lasted an extra half decade. 1:25:27.280 --> 1:25:30.040 Good time, We're gonna have a fun one here. So 1:25:30.640 --> 1:25:33.320 one of the mini downsides of an intellectual upbringing like 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:36.000 the one Henry Kissinger experienced is that he spent a 1:25:36.080 --> 1:25:41.360 lot of time surrounded by people you might call political technologists. Now, 1:25:41.400 --> 1:25:43.640 this is a term I first heard in Ukraine from 1:25:43.680 --> 1:25:48.679 civilians describing Paul Manifort. That's what they called them. Political Yeah, yeah, 1:25:48.920 --> 1:25:53.240 these like hired guns who come in and help anybody 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:55.880 who just happens to like have government money, like do 1:25:56.160 --> 1:26:00.439 literally anything. Right. There're guys like his mentor, professor Elliott 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:05.160 and like Harvard economists Thomas Schnelling, who advised powerful elected leaders, 1:26:05.200 --> 1:26:07.640 and like they all of the way in which they 1:26:07.760 --> 1:26:11.360 think about the mechanisms of government are very mathematic and inhuman. 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:14.040 Right, those are the. 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:18.280 People that Kissinger patterns him self off of. Now, Schnelling, 1:26:18.360 --> 1:26:20.439 who are Shelling? Who is just Thomas Shelling, who's a 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:23.439 Harvard economists we just introduced was one of Kissinger's other mentors, 1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:26.759 and Shelling at the same time as he's he's working 1:26:26.800 --> 1:26:30.360 at Harvard and mentoring Kissinger is advising the Eisenhower administration 1:26:30.520 --> 1:26:33.360 on moral calculus in the early stages of the Cold War. 1:26:34.080 --> 1:26:38.840 Shelling argues, calculus, moral calculus? Have you never have you 1:26:38.960 --> 1:26:41.439 never talked about that with anybody? Is he not a 1:26:41.520 --> 1:26:44.360 common condres now? No? Sorry? No, I mean I was 1:26:44.479 --> 1:26:47.960 terrible at calculus. Yeah. 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:52.360 Well you can't be moral and no calculus, which is 1:26:52.479 --> 1:26:55.920 why you know, like polepot, I'm going to eventually set 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.200 all of my listeners after people who know math. 1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:03.200 That's that's the gold Bobby right there. How did we 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:07.840 get We're not sure, sir, No idea, No possible to say, 1:27:08.720 --> 1:27:11.439 no way, incalculable. People keep trying to tell us, and 1:27:11.520 --> 1:27:13.519 we just kill them. Adam to the pile. Someone had 1:27:13.560 --> 1:27:16.840 two numbers, but we were unable to We can't negotiate it. Yeah, 1:27:18.200 --> 1:27:18.800 so uh. 1:27:19.360 --> 1:27:22.720 Shelling is advising the Eisenhewer administration on moral calculus in 1:27:22.760 --> 1:27:25.479 the Cold War, and Shelling's argument is that whether you 1:27:25.600 --> 1:27:28.920 were quote deterring the Russians or your own children, the 1:27:29.040 --> 1:27:32.000 proper tactic was to figure out the right ratio of 1:27:32.200 --> 1:27:38.439 threat to incentive. So already Shelling might be the quickest 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:40.960 I've ever described a person and had it be clear like, well, 1:27:41.000 --> 1:27:41.599 that's a bastard. 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:44.719 That's not okay obviously. 1:27:45.720 --> 1:27:48.560 So since I have no human feelings, I have to 1:27:48.640 --> 1:27:52.320 figure out this. And children and murderers are the same. 1:27:52.640 --> 1:27:56.879 Yeah, children in the Soviet government only understand one thing, threats. 1:27:57.520 --> 1:27:58.679 Can I have more ice cream? 1:27:58.760 --> 1:27:58.960 Dad? 1:27:59.240 --> 1:28:03.000 Put your hand in the drawer and find out. Now, 1:28:03.920 --> 1:28:04.240 there you go. 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:06.519 I'm gonna tell you something, Jimmy. You go for that 1:28:06.640 --> 1:28:09.559 ice cream. I have a loaded thirty eight on the table. 1:28:09.640 --> 1:28:11.760 Now one of the chambers is empty, Jimmy, So if 1:28:11.800 --> 1:28:14.720 you give that ice cream, maybe the hammer goes Stepp. 1:28:15.479 --> 1:28:17.160 I just want to go to bed. I don't like dessert. 1:28:18.160 --> 1:28:20.840 There you go, money, Honey. You just feel like moral 1:28:20.920 --> 1:28:23.200 calculus is not the way to go with the ice cream. 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:26.599 Maybe maybe you could just say no if you don't 1:28:26.640 --> 1:28:28.960 want him to have dessert. Any dad could say no, 1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:30.599 I'm learning. 1:28:31.240 --> 1:28:31.439 Yeah. 1:28:33.000 --> 1:28:35.519 So, while Henry was teaching at Harvard, and this is 1:28:35.560 --> 1:28:37.599 before he gets we ended the last episode him getting 1:28:37.640 --> 1:28:39.720 that gig with the Council on Foreign Relations learning about 1:28:39.800 --> 1:28:42.799 nuclear policy. In the period before that, when like Shelling 1:28:42.920 --> 1:28:45.280 is his mentor, Henry learns a lot from him and 1:28:45.360 --> 1:28:47.920 he walks away from their relationship with the belief that 1:28:48.040 --> 1:28:51.519 quote bargaining power comes from the capacity to hurt, to 1:28:51.680 --> 1:28:53.759 cause quote sheer pain and damage. 1:28:54.600 --> 1:28:58.000 She means, fucking Christ, you're just kind of waiting for 1:28:58.160 --> 1:29:00.920 this person to step into the vacuum essentially, right, like 1:29:01.040 --> 1:29:02.840 you're waiting for someone to be like, you know, there's 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:04.960 actually a bottom that's under the bottom. 1:29:05.360 --> 1:29:07.760 Yeah, oh oh my lord, it's like this shit, like 1:29:07.960 --> 1:29:10.719 if that were true. We're all watching this situation unfold 1:29:10.760 --> 1:29:13.680 between Russia and Ukraine where you've got like a lot 1:29:13.720 --> 1:29:15.640 of people with the ability to hurt, a lot of 1:29:15.680 --> 1:29:16.840 people on both sides. 1:29:16.920 --> 1:29:19.599 And you know what, it doesn't seem like negotiations are 1:29:19.640 --> 1:29:24.240 going great. Yeah, not really. Maybe that's not a good 1:29:24.360 --> 1:29:28.840 basis to proceed from anything with. Yeah, I mean, I 1:29:29.000 --> 1:29:30.000 just I can't believe that. 1:29:30.680 --> 1:29:32.920 It's it's the craziest fucking idea. 1:29:33.320 --> 1:29:33.760 It's not. 1:29:34.200 --> 1:29:34.439 It's not. 1:29:34.680 --> 1:29:36.040 It's not negotiating. 1:29:36.520 --> 1:29:39.240 Yeah, you go into negotiations, you're like, I'm probably not 1:29:39.240 --> 1:29:40.080 gonna get what I want. 1:29:40.160 --> 1:29:41.599 We're gonna try and get the best we can. 1:29:41.800 --> 1:29:44.720 And he's just like, how much can I fucking hurt you? 1:29:44.840 --> 1:29:47.240 And usually you give me if you spend enough time 1:29:47.360 --> 1:29:50.479 like I do around like gun culture. People on the 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:53.320 right in particular, there's these folks who like usually have 1:29:53.400 --> 1:29:55.519 never done anything like in the military themselves, but they 1:29:55.560 --> 1:29:57.920 read a bunch of like books by Navy seals and shit, 1:29:57.960 --> 1:29:59.760 and they'll say shit like you should have a plan 1:29:59.840 --> 1:30:02.400 to kill everyone in every room you walk into, and 1:30:02.560 --> 1:30:04.519 like their frame is that, like the world's dangerous, you 1:30:04.520 --> 1:30:06.960 gotta be ready. And I think any reasonable person is like, well, 1:30:07.000 --> 1:30:08.599 you are someone who should not have a gun. 1:30:08.840 --> 1:30:12.120 Yes, you should not have a gun. You are out 1:30:12.160 --> 1:30:13.439 of your entire damn mind. 1:30:14.040 --> 1:30:17.400 Like this is a guy who should never be negotiating. 1:30:17.520 --> 1:30:21.400 Yeah, absolutely not ready to kill someone. Is like, you 1:30:21.479 --> 1:30:23.280 know what, don't go into rooms. That's just going to 1:30:23.280 --> 1:30:26.200 be your thing. You don't stay anywhere, stay in your house. 1:30:26.280 --> 1:30:28.639 You go to one room. Yeah no, I could. 1:30:28.880 --> 1:30:30.599 I could tell your throat. 1:30:30.720 --> 1:30:33.519 I could come reach across the table, tell your throat 1:30:33.560 --> 1:30:35.559 out and stab you in the eyes with ice picks. 1:30:35.880 --> 1:30:37.880 So I'm just we're just talking about what. 1:30:38.160 --> 1:30:40.400 He just wants ice cream, Dan, He just asked you 1:30:40.479 --> 1:30:41.559 for an ice cream, Dan. 1:30:44.320 --> 1:30:47.160 So Henry gets his gig at the at the CFR, 1:30:47.320 --> 1:30:50.360 and so he's the thing he's producing for the Council 1:30:50.439 --> 1:30:54.040 on Foreign Relations for his buddy the Rockefeller It's supposed 1:30:54.040 --> 1:30:55.960 to be like a report on how the US is 1:30:56.320 --> 1:30:58.840 like should use nuclear weapons different ways in which like 1:30:58.840 --> 1:31:01.519 they could approach it right. And while he's writing this report, 1:31:01.520 --> 1:31:03.920 because it's with this thing takes a very very long 1:31:04.000 --> 1:31:07.040 process getting this out, he also starts working privately on 1:31:07.120 --> 1:31:10.439 a book of his own titled Nuclear Weapons and Foreign Policy. 1:31:11.120 --> 1:31:12.880 And this book is a version of the stuff he 1:31:12.960 --> 1:31:15.400 wants to write. And this thing he's like fighting to 1:31:15.439 --> 1:31:18.439 get out with the cspods. Yeah kind of, but also 1:31:18.720 --> 1:31:20.720 it's actually very smart what he does. Well, it'll take 1:31:20.800 --> 1:31:22.720 us a second to get there. So this book that 1:31:22.880 --> 1:31:26.640 Kissinger writes, that's his own project, criticizes US threats of 1:31:26.720 --> 1:31:30.240 full scale nuclear attack and response to Soviet aggression. Nil 1:31:30.320 --> 1:31:32.760 Ferguson sums it up in this way quote with his 1:31:32.920 --> 1:31:36.280 skill for simplifying and expressing complex ideas, Kissinger put the 1:31:36.320 --> 1:31:39.759 issue starkly. The dilemma of the nuclear period can therefore 1:31:39.840 --> 1:31:43.080 be defined as follows. The enormity of modern weapons makes 1:31:43.120 --> 1:31:45.960 the thought of war repugnant, but the refusal to run 1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:49.160 any risks would amount to giving Soviet rulers a blank check. 1:31:49.840 --> 1:31:52.519 Kissinger's conclusions were not original. The study group at the 1:31:52.560 --> 1:31:55.160 Council was almost unanimous in its desire to find some 1:31:55.280 --> 1:31:59.400 alternative to Eisenhower's stated policy, and many defense intellectuals, most 1:31:59.479 --> 1:32:02.479 notably Ard Brodie and Basil little Heart, had also written 1:32:02.560 --> 1:32:06.000 on the subject of limited nuclear war. Kissinger's book demonstrated 1:32:06.040 --> 1:32:09.960 his talent as a creative synthesizer of their ideas, drawing 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:12.400 out the implications of their work in arguing that for 1:32:12.520 --> 1:32:15.479 America's Cold War diplomacy to have any real substance, the 1:32:15.600 --> 1:32:18.320 US had to accept the possibility of the limited use 1:32:18.360 --> 1:32:21.559 of nuclear weapons. That Kissinger's own solution of limited nuclear 1:32:21.600 --> 1:32:24.280 war was also highly problematic, was less important to many 1:32:24.360 --> 1:32:27.240 contemporary observers than that it broke free from the straight 1:32:27.360 --> 1:32:29.639 jacket of the Eisenhower administration's policy. 1:32:29.880 --> 1:32:34.000 So, but where does he describe like where you would 1:32:34.080 --> 1:32:36.519 use it is like a tactical battlefield book. 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:40.160 Is it's like to win battlefield victories? To like in Vietnam, 1:32:40.240 --> 1:32:42.719 he will briefly flirt, well, not even all that briefly, 1:32:42.800 --> 1:32:46.479 but he will consider using nuclear weapons to cut off 1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:50.280 train access between Vietnam and China, which. 1:32:50.240 --> 1:32:54.920 Isn't sane, Like as as a layman, you can cut 1:32:54.960 --> 1:32:59.400 off trains in another way, presumably, right. I mean I've 1:32:59.400 --> 1:33:01.320 seen the General with buster keat and you could throw 1:33:01.400 --> 1:33:02.160 some logs on it. 1:33:03.360 --> 1:33:07.800 There there are these other things called bombs, just bombs. 1:33:09.400 --> 1:33:12.720 Kissinger. Yeah, so it really, I mean it is kind 1:33:12.760 --> 1:33:15.400 of just itchy trigger finger, and it is like, if 1:33:15.439 --> 1:33:18.200 you live in the realm of this sort of dark thinking, 1:33:18.960 --> 1:33:21.160 how are you not going to start, you know, thinking 1:33:21.240 --> 1:33:24.960 of ways that are just even more vicious brutal. 1:33:25.840 --> 1:33:28.960 He's basically saying they need to think we're a chained 1:33:29.479 --> 1:33:33.120 mad dog, and if we you let the dog off 1:33:33.160 --> 1:33:35.200 the leash once and he attacks the postman and then 1:33:35.320 --> 1:33:36.679 and then everyone's going to fucking. 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:40.000 Know then you don't get the mail anymore. Yeah, then 1:33:40.040 --> 1:33:43.400 you start seeing your mail. We've bombed Japan already, like 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:47.200 everyard gets it already, mind of course, Oh my god. 1:33:47.479 --> 1:33:50.000 Yeah, it's not like it's this theoretical weapon that's never 1:33:50.120 --> 1:33:51.200 been used and. 1:33:51.240 --> 1:33:54.360 It worked pretty well as far as making people be like, 1:33:54.439 --> 1:33:57.280 god damn, they are out of their minds. Yeah, look crazy, 1:33:57.400 --> 1:33:58.040 oh shit. 1:33:59.320 --> 1:34:02.439 But it's all Also there's a there's a factor here 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:05.759 a part of me wonders if he even really believed 1:34:05.800 --> 1:34:08.880 about this or cared about whether or not nukes should 1:34:08.880 --> 1:34:11.040 be used tactically, and if it was more a matter 1:34:11.120 --> 1:34:13.519 of this is a big debate of the day, and 1:34:13.680 --> 1:34:18.000 if I publicly take the most contrarian thing intellectuals who 1:34:18.040 --> 1:34:20.400 don't really care about what works, but who care about 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:23.200 who's thinking creatively, Like right, Like that's the thing. He's like, Well, 1:34:23.439 --> 1:34:25.120 it's not about whether or not his plan would work. 1:34:25.160 --> 1:34:27.680 It's about we're getting out of this straight jacket Eisenhower's 1:34:27.720 --> 1:34:29.400 put us in. And it's like, no, that's not all 1:34:29.439 --> 1:34:30.080 that matters. 1:34:30.280 --> 1:34:36.679 Finally, Yeah, you know, it's really funny, Well just ironic 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:39.760 about this is the funny fun it. Places like the 1:34:39.840 --> 1:34:43.240 Heritage Foundation for years have been have been saying that 1:34:43.560 --> 1:34:50.120 Prutin would use tactical battlefield nukes, and that's why he's unhinged. 1:34:50.640 --> 1:34:54.760 That's one of the reasons. Yeah, it's I would say, 1:34:54.800 --> 1:35:00.280 anyone who would do that is crazy. Yeah, imagine keep 1:35:00.320 --> 1:35:01.240 him on as an advisor. 1:35:01.600 --> 1:35:07.920 Yeah, yeah, that's my feeling on nuke's. Don't shoot them 1:35:07.960 --> 1:35:08.760 at people ever? 1:35:09.000 --> 1:35:11.280 Yeah, yeah, its bad. 1:35:12.479 --> 1:35:15.400 Maybe an Independence Day kind of situation. I'll be honest, 1:35:15.400 --> 1:35:17.200 when I watch Independence Day, I think, yeah, I might 1:35:17.240 --> 1:35:18.880 shoot some news. I might at that point try a 1:35:18.960 --> 1:35:21.320 nuker too. Yeah, but you have Randy Quaid I do. 1:35:22.200 --> 1:35:24.960 I do hang out with him a lot. That's my 1:35:25.120 --> 1:35:28.639 main plan. If things go wrong, Randy get on the plane. 1:35:32.439 --> 1:35:33.519 He lives in my basement. 1:35:34.600 --> 1:35:37.360 That actually tracks from the Instagram videos I've been seeing. 1:35:40.439 --> 1:35:44.160 So Kissinger's book was published in nineteen fifty seven, and 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:47.600 it almost immediately sold seventeen thousand copies, which is a 1:35:47.800 --> 1:35:50.720 lot for a wonky book on nuclear warfare. It is 1:35:50.800 --> 1:35:53.679 on the New York Times bestseller list for fourteen weeks. 1:35:53.920 --> 1:35:55.920 Wow, Jesus Christ. 1:35:55.840 --> 1:35:56.840 Yeah it's not great. 1:35:57.320 --> 1:35:57.479 Now. 1:35:57.920 --> 1:36:01.000 He's timing is perfect. He puts this book out right 1:36:01.120 --> 1:36:03.800 as the Soviets make two big advances in Hungary, there's 1:36:03.880 --> 1:36:06.720 like a revolution that they kind of crush, and then 1:36:06.760 --> 1:36:09.400 in the Suez, where like that brings the British and 1:36:09.400 --> 1:36:11.120 the French are like fucking around in the Suez Canal 1:36:11.160 --> 1:36:14.200 and the Soviets are like stop or we'll do something bad, 1:36:14.360 --> 1:36:17.200 and NATO like backs the fuck off. Right, So the 1:36:17.280 --> 1:36:20.160 Soviets have like two big kind of foreign policy wins 1:36:20.200 --> 1:36:23.599 in this period and Americans can't look at this as like, well, 1:36:23.720 --> 1:36:27.000 you know, maybe the fucking NATO shouldn't have been fucking 1:36:27.000 --> 1:36:29.120 around the Suez, and yeah, that shit in Hungry is 1:36:29.160 --> 1:36:30.960 fucked up, but like maybe we can't do anything about it. 1:36:31.000 --> 1:36:32.960 They're like, we should listen to the guy who says, 1:36:33.000 --> 1:36:34.080 what if we nuked them, you. 1:36:34.120 --> 1:36:35.360 Know, don't run. 1:36:35.640 --> 1:36:39.680 Yeah, that's that's where people go, right, They don't. They 1:36:39.880 --> 1:36:42.720 they're Americans. They don't take the rational route. 1:36:42.800 --> 1:36:45.080 Now, No, they hate us part nuclear freedom. 1:36:45.360 --> 1:36:47.679 Yeah, they listened to the crisiest person in the room 1:36:47.800 --> 1:36:50.400 about this. Right, there's a lot of things that you 1:36:50.520 --> 1:36:52.640 can say about both what happened in Hungary and the 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:55.439 Suez crisis that are not why don't we use nukes 1:36:55.439 --> 1:36:55.920 more often? 1:36:56.120 --> 1:36:56.400 Sure? 1:36:56.760 --> 1:37:02.479 By God, kissing your noses, audience, you know, Kisody writes 1:37:02.520 --> 1:37:04.400 this book, and The New York Times in their review 1:37:04.439 --> 1:37:07.000 of it. Right, For the first time since President Eisenhower 1:37:07.040 --> 1:37:09.599 took office, officials at the highest government levels are displaying 1:37:09.640 --> 1:37:12.200 interest in the theory of the little or limited war. 1:37:12.560 --> 1:37:16.680 The theory of massive retaliation is re examined. I love 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:20.040 that those are that those go together, those are the options. 1:37:20.160 --> 1:37:22.920 Yeah, and then it's like the little war is the 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:26.280 nuclear war, Like it's the baby war for us. 1:37:26.760 --> 1:37:29.879 Yeah yeah, hand me out, hear me out, baby nukes, 1:37:30.120 --> 1:37:31.559 little tiny nukes. 1:37:31.840 --> 1:37:33.720 Well yeah, it's like if someone's like, look, we got 1:37:33.800 --> 1:37:35.599 to decide if one of which of these is going 1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:39.680 to be legal Sarah nerve gas bombs for civilians or 1:37:40.439 --> 1:37:43.320 or chlorine gas bombs for civilians. One type of poison 1:37:43.400 --> 1:37:45.760 gas bomb has to be legal, like we all we 1:37:45.880 --> 1:37:47.360 have to have access. Everyone has to be able to 1:37:47.400 --> 1:37:50.639 have one kind of poison gas Two is crazy taste. 1:37:50.760 --> 1:37:51.000 Great? 1:37:51.640 --> 1:37:55.720 What if nobody has those? Oh god, that's not you know, 1:37:55.880 --> 1:37:59.920 that's not where things go here. So President Eisenhower is 1:38:00.080 --> 1:38:03.000 given a summary of Kissinger's book. You know, he's a president. 1:38:03.040 --> 1:38:05.960 They don't they don't read books. Yeah, it's gets Yeah, 1:38:05.960 --> 1:38:08.200 he gets a cliff notes and he recommends it to 1:38:08.320 --> 1:38:11.559 his Secretary of State John Foster Doulas we have talked 1:38:11.560 --> 1:38:12.160 about quite a. 1:38:12.160 --> 1:38:15.560 Lot on God, it was just yeah, I mean, who, like, 1:38:15.720 --> 1:38:18.000 if he's the rational mind. 1:38:18.640 --> 1:38:21.519 If Dulas is being like this, dude seems a little 1:38:21.720 --> 1:38:24.560 out of his mind, big problem, that's yeah, that's not 1:38:24.760 --> 1:38:28.080 great because John Foster Dulas fucking lunatic. 1:38:28.280 --> 1:38:32.960 Yeah yeah, So the vice president at this point is 1:38:32.960 --> 1:38:35.040 a little dude you might have heard of called Richard 1:38:35.080 --> 1:38:38.640 Millhouse Nixon. He gets photographed with a coffee copy of 1:38:38.720 --> 1:38:42.120 Henry Kissinger's book, which is not great. I mean, it's 1:38:42.120 --> 1:38:44.720 actually great, foreshadow, it's just not writing a screenplay. 1:38:44.920 --> 1:38:45.559 This is great. 1:38:45.960 --> 1:38:46.160 Yeah. 1:38:46.280 --> 1:38:48.960 Really, this is like season one of the Nixon Show. 1:38:49.200 --> 1:38:52.000 And you just like see him with Kissinger's book, right right, yeah, 1:38:52.320 --> 1:38:57.920 yeah right, good television, you know. So the book is 1:38:57.920 --> 1:39:00.400 successful enough that it provokes Rockefeller, who gotten in the 1:39:00.439 --> 1:39:03.000 job at the CFR, to rush out the report that 1:39:03.080 --> 1:39:06.840 Nixon had been or that Kissinger had been making. And yes, 1:39:07.120 --> 1:39:11.120 christ yeah, the report from the CFR concludes, the willingness 1:39:11.200 --> 1:39:14.240 to engage in nuclear war when necessary is part of 1:39:14.360 --> 1:39:15.439 the price of our freedom. 1:39:15.560 --> 1:39:19.040 Wow, I mean the price of our freedom is pretty good. 1:39:19.200 --> 1:39:22.440 Damn price he isn't it? Is it combinsive? 1:39:23.080 --> 1:39:23.320 Yeah? 1:39:24.840 --> 1:39:25.040 Man? 1:39:25.240 --> 1:39:27.439 How can we How can we live if we're not dead? 1:39:27.960 --> 1:39:28.160 Yeah? 1:39:28.200 --> 1:39:30.200 How can we live without nuclear fallout? 1:39:30.320 --> 1:39:34.000 It's it's and it's amazing that it like it all 1:39:34.320 --> 1:39:36.479 like I if it was part of his plan or not. 1:39:37.000 --> 1:39:39.720 Like you said, the timing is just pretty remarkable to 1:39:39.800 --> 1:39:42.639 release this book and then it actually shifts the way 1:39:42.680 --> 1:39:44.559 that they view this to me, Yeah, you know, it's 1:39:44.600 --> 1:39:46.280 actually he's got a really good point in his best 1:39:46.320 --> 1:39:49.479 selling book about how nukes are cool, how nukes are sweet. 1:39:49.640 --> 1:39:50.800 You know I am. 1:39:50.960 --> 1:39:53.400 I am excited for Ben Shapiro's book on the same 1:39:53.520 --> 1:39:55.880 subject to lead to the annihilation of the whole life. 1:39:56.400 --> 1:39:59.720 Yeah wait, I'm gonna live underground. So that's a good 1:39:59.760 --> 1:40:00.240 idea to you. 1:40:01.160 --> 1:40:05.920 So this report is a weird like weirdly popular like again, 1:40:06.000 --> 1:40:10.360 this is a report from the Center or from the CFR, 1:40:11.000 --> 1:40:13.479 from the Council on Foreign Relations, which is like not 1:40:13.840 --> 1:40:15.679 you don't expect that to go viral? 1:40:15.960 --> 1:40:20.000 Right, you know you read this pamphlet. Have you read 1:40:20.080 --> 1:40:23.760 this study by the CFR. 1:40:24.960 --> 1:40:27.000 I mean, you can never let you down when you're like, oh, 1:40:27.080 --> 1:40:29.480 that won't happen, that won't happen, that won't. 1:40:29.240 --> 1:40:31.360 Go Yeah right it does. Yeah. 1:40:31.479 --> 1:40:34.519 So Rockefeller actually goes on the Today Show to talk 1:40:34.600 --> 1:40:36.120 about this report the CFR. 1:40:37.240 --> 1:40:41.320 Wither, I know, it's amazing Macaroni castrole. 1:40:41.680 --> 1:40:48.280 So next, so he gives people of the Today Show 1:40:48.320 --> 1:40:50.479 an address where they can write for a copy of 1:40:50.560 --> 1:40:54.040 this report. No, they get forty five thousand requests the 1:40:54.120 --> 1:40:54.720 first day and. 1:40:56.600 --> 1:40:59.840 The next Hell's post office is over. 1:41:00.120 --> 1:41:00.280 Well. 1:41:00.520 --> 1:41:03.960 Yeah, the media US media called this report quote the 1:41:04.120 --> 1:41:07.120 answer to Sputnik, which is like, hey, the Russian sent 1:41:07.640 --> 1:41:13.000 sent an unarmed ball into space to further exploration. We 1:41:13.120 --> 1:41:16.320 should this book about how everyone should be nuking everyone. 1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:17.160 It's the answer to that. 1:41:17.439 --> 1:41:20.559 We're thinking that this report on nuclear weapons will actually 1:41:20.680 --> 1:41:23.400 show the Russians that to not go to space. Yeah, 1:41:23.520 --> 1:41:26.040 that's space. If you get rid of Russias, I can't 1:41:26.080 --> 1:41:27.200 go to space. Do you understand. 1:41:27.600 --> 1:41:30.080 Yeah, And it is it's worth noting because I think, 1:41:30.200 --> 1:41:32.840 like in our popular history, the answer to Sputnik is 1:41:32.880 --> 1:41:35.519 the Apollo missions and its frame beauty, which you know 1:41:35.640 --> 1:41:38.200 did eventually happen. But no, the first answer to Sputnik 1:41:38.280 --> 1:41:40.160 was a report about how we should be nuking each 1:41:40.200 --> 1:41:40.960 other more often. 1:41:41.080 --> 1:41:45.200 Yeah, I get they put a ball in the orbit, 1:41:45.280 --> 1:41:47.160 so we should we should blow up SAT. 1:41:47.360 --> 1:41:50.200 We should be ready to drop thirteen nuclear warheads on 1:41:50.280 --> 1:41:51.719 Berlin at a second's notice. 1:41:51.880 --> 1:41:52.760 That's what I showed them. 1:41:55.240 --> 1:41:59.040 So this makes Henry Kissinger famous. He is all over 1:41:59.120 --> 1:41:59.519 the place. 1:42:00.320 --> 1:42:03.240 This is his This is how we become famous. 1:42:03.800 --> 1:42:06.760 Want some guy, some guys watch the today show when 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:08.600 he buys the books, so we can tell everybody at the. 1:42:08.600 --> 1:42:10.799 Elks Club that we need to use nukes. 1:42:11.040 --> 1:42:15.120 Someone's happening. Give this accountant a soccer ball. Some people 1:42:15.240 --> 1:42:18.920 get famous because their dad is one of oj Simpson's lawyers. 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:22.000 Some people get famous because they write a book about 1:42:22.000 --> 1:42:23.000 how nuclear warfare. 1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:25.120 It is not that bad. Uh huh, you know, it's 1:42:25.280 --> 1:42:30.120 just in fame. It's a crapshoot. Absolutely fuck. 1:42:30.720 --> 1:42:33.240 I mean, imagine being an anti nuke person at this point, 1:42:33.280 --> 1:42:35.120 you're just like, wait, what is going on? 1:42:36.360 --> 1:42:39.639 Have you read the report? It's so good. We're gonna 1:42:39.640 --> 1:42:41.920 show them if what they should not be going to space. 1:42:42.280 --> 1:42:44.719 Yeah, next time they put a satellite up, we're gonna 1:42:44.760 --> 1:42:46.040 kill everyone in Paraguay. 1:42:46.240 --> 1:42:48.519 What we need to do is a radiated country. 1:42:50.840 --> 1:42:54.439 So on July fourteenth, nineteen fifty eight, Mike Wallace gives 1:42:54.479 --> 1:42:57.559 Henry Kissinger his first big break into the public sphere. 1:42:57.680 --> 1:43:02.680 So many what happened? It really is, it really is 1:43:02.840 --> 1:43:05.960 just fucking disgusting because I go through this all the 1:43:06.040 --> 1:43:08.280 time on our show, where I'm like, it is the 1:43:08.360 --> 1:43:12.200 same shit. But again, it's just media using its plats 1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:16.800 irresponsibly to normalize things. That are fucking batship. 1:43:17.040 --> 1:43:20.880 Yeah, it's great, Like sixty minutes having a fucking whole 1:43:20.960 --> 1:43:23.800 segment on the havana fucking. 1:43:23.640 --> 1:43:28.320 Sound it's come on, Dave, you know that's real. I 1:43:28.360 --> 1:43:33.040 suffered from that for two years, those crickets. Oh man. 1:43:33.360 --> 1:43:36.120 I will say, like, the stupidest joke that I laugh 1:43:36.160 --> 1:43:38.880 at every time is, yeah, I got havana syndrome. Having 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:43.960 another beer never doesn't get a chuckle out of me. 1:43:45.000 --> 1:43:45.920 But we've done. 1:43:46.040 --> 1:43:48.240 We've had sixty minutes. Come on, sixty minutes. Did the 1:43:48.439 --> 1:43:52.680 uh the uh satanic scare shit? Well, yeah, they were 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:56.400 big lots dandles, like they just run with ideas that 1:43:56.479 --> 1:43:57.240 are crazy. 1:43:57.479 --> 1:43:57.719 Yeah. 1:43:58.360 --> 1:44:01.400 There, I mean because for people who are at the 1:44:01.479 --> 1:44:04.120 level Mike Wallace is, the definition of journalist is not 1:44:05.080 --> 1:44:07.720 afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. It's be a 1:44:07.800 --> 1:44:12.040 giant shithead. Yeah right, be a huge shihead. 1:44:13.320 --> 1:44:14.920 Man. Oh man. 1:44:15.200 --> 1:44:18.920 So Mike Wallace introduces Henry Kissinger, the guy whose one 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:21.639 achievement is a book about how nukes are cool. By 1:44:21.720 --> 1:44:25.360 saying this, in the field of foreign policy and military affairs, 1:44:25.439 --> 1:44:27.760 doctor Kissinger, you're acknowledged to be one of the most 1:44:27.840 --> 1:44:29.400 penetrating minds in the country. 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:30.400 Oh, he's penetrating. 1:44:30.720 --> 1:44:34.960 He is penetrating like an Atlas missile penetrates the cloud 1:44:35.040 --> 1:44:37.439 cover above a city full of women and children. 1:44:37.600 --> 1:44:38.920 Yeah. Wow. 1:44:39.880 --> 1:44:44.000 Now, during the interview, Kissinger expressed that quote a capitalist society, 1:44:44.160 --> 1:44:46.640 or what is more interesting to me, a free society, 1:44:46.800 --> 1:44:50.479 is a more revolutionary phenomenon than nineteenth century socialism. I 1:44:50.560 --> 1:44:53.000 think we should go on the spiritual offensive. 1:44:53.280 --> 1:44:58.639 Yeah, the spiritual with a nuclear extension with Lukes. Yes, 1:45:00.520 --> 1:45:04.519 so he's connecting, he's connecting. You know, the two options 1:45:04.640 --> 1:45:09.880 nineteenth century socialist capitalism or the current day capitalism and nukes. 1:45:10.439 --> 1:45:14.200 Those are the options. Yeah. And Mike Wallace just empty 1:45:14.280 --> 1:45:17.240 headedly sits there and goes like, I really love your property. 1:45:17.439 --> 1:45:20.880 Yeah, just smiles in behind his eyes as a dial tone. 1:45:24.560 --> 1:45:25.599 Oh my god. 1:45:25.960 --> 1:45:28.880 So this earns him finally the job at Harvard that 1:45:28.920 --> 1:45:29.519 he'd coveted. 1:45:29.800 --> 1:45:34.880 This is why they give him. Shut, shut the fuck up. 1:45:35.439 --> 1:45:38.680 It was ever simple. I can't I. 1:45:38.800 --> 1:45:44.040 Cannot get over how fucking evil Harvard is. It's so good, 1:45:44.680 --> 1:45:48.800 it is monstrous from it's the best. It is a 1:45:49.120 --> 1:45:52.080 horrific some of us with their asshole. 1:45:56.560 --> 1:46:01.519 Anti Harvard action. So he gets his Harvard job, and 1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:05.000 he keeps writing. In nineteen sixty one, taking a heart. 1:46:05.080 --> 1:46:06.120 What's he doing at Harvard? 1:46:06.240 --> 1:46:10.000 He's like teaching some shit, you know, Kissinger stuff type classes. Yeah, 1:46:10.560 --> 1:46:11.920 talking about Spangler a lot. 1:46:12.080 --> 1:46:12.280 Yeah. 1:46:13.000 --> 1:46:17.639 Nukes are awesome too, Nukes are awesome. Freedom is requires 1:46:17.680 --> 1:46:20.360 an absence of morality, teaching kids good stuff, you know, 1:46:20.760 --> 1:46:25.360 teaching kids good things. So in nineteen sixty one he 1:46:25.400 --> 1:46:28.280 publishes a book titled The Necessity of Choice, which is 1:46:28.320 --> 1:46:31.080 his manifesto on how the United States should approach foreign 1:46:31.120 --> 1:46:33.960 policy in the nineteen sixties. It is not an optimistic 1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:37.240 piece of writing. Quote, the United States cannot afford another 1:46:37.320 --> 1:46:39.719 decline like the one which has characterized the past decade 1:46:39.760 --> 1:46:42.560 and a half fifteen years of more of a deterioration 1:46:42.680 --> 1:46:44.719 of our position in the world such as we've experienced 1:46:44.760 --> 1:46:47.559 since World War Two, would find us reduced to fortress 1:46:47.600 --> 1:46:50.360 America in a world in which we had become largely irrelevant. 1:46:50.640 --> 1:46:53.240 Our margin of survival has narrowed dangerously. 1:46:53.520 --> 1:46:55.080 What in the fuck is he talking about? 1:46:55.840 --> 1:47:00.120 Well, America influence. No, this is like the high of 1:47:00.160 --> 1:47:03.439 American power. Obviously, yeah to anyone who's not, but Kissinger 1:47:03.600 --> 1:47:05.880 is he knows this is bullshit. He is part of 1:47:05.920 --> 1:47:07.639 a group of people who are pushing Have you guys 1:47:07.680 --> 1:47:08.800 heard the term missile gap? 1:47:09.160 --> 1:47:09.200 No? 1:47:09.560 --> 1:47:09.600 No. 1:47:10.160 --> 1:47:13.120 In the the early stages of the Kennedy administration, there 1:47:13.200 --> 1:47:15.120 is suddenly this huge and this is both like in 1:47:15.200 --> 1:47:17.720 conversations that people are having in DC and in like 1:47:17.800 --> 1:47:20.240 the media. There's this constant talk of a missile gap, 1:47:20.280 --> 1:47:23.599 this idea that these Soviets have outpaced us in missile 1:47:23.680 --> 1:47:25.840 development and in the number of missiles they have, and 1:47:25.880 --> 1:47:28.120 there's talking about like there's bomber gaps, there's tank gaps, 1:47:28.120 --> 1:47:31.320 there's talk about like these gaps between this idea that 1:47:31.560 --> 1:47:34.920 is totally bullshit. Like not that the Soviets have not 1:47:35.040 --> 1:47:37.519 made a lot of weapons, so he makes plenty of weapons, 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:39.800 but the United there is no point in the Cold 1:47:39.840 --> 1:47:42.160 War in which the United States is like out fucking 1:47:42.360 --> 1:47:44.960 gunned to any degree that like has it could be 1:47:45.360 --> 1:47:47.679 anyone reasonable could call like a missile gap. 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:50.280 It just does not happen. It feels like we're still 1:47:50.320 --> 1:47:53.040 responding to that today to be like, do do first 1:47:53.120 --> 1:47:54.120 by a log shot? 1:47:54.560 --> 1:47:57.880 Yeah, and yeah, it's it's it's this, it's it's this, 1:47:58.560 --> 1:48:00.559 it's not I would say on him, but it's very 1:48:00.560 --> 1:48:03.439 reasonable because the argument comes primarily out of the Defense 1:48:03.520 --> 1:48:06.400 Department and the growing defense industry, who it's great for 1:48:06.520 --> 1:48:08.520 them if everyone thinks there's a missile. 1:48:08.240 --> 1:48:10.920 Gap, like of course, yeah, you got to build a 1:48:10.960 --> 1:48:13.040 lot more weapons. We'll sell them to you. I thought 1:48:13.080 --> 1:48:15.519 it was the place you could get Khaki's on your rockets. 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:16.920 But you have a missile gap. 1:48:18.400 --> 1:48:19.439 Thank you, Thank you, a welcome. 1:48:19.800 --> 1:48:22.760 We'll be right back. Question. I'm sorry, you know what, Yes, 1:48:22.880 --> 1:48:24.639 actually this is time for an ad break. 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:28.519 So you know, if you're looking for a way to 1:48:28.600 --> 1:48:31.519 dress up your RNI and X knife missile before firing 1:48:31.600 --> 1:48:35.360 it into some guy's car, check out the missile gap. 1:48:41.200 --> 1:48:42.160 We are back. 1:48:42.920 --> 1:48:46.479 So it's bullshit, the idea of the missile gap. And 1:48:46.640 --> 1:48:48.960 Kissinger is smart enough to know this, but he is 1:48:49.040 --> 1:48:51.320 one of the major proponents. He's not one of the 1:48:51.400 --> 1:48:53.360 there's other guys who are more influential pushing it, like 1:48:53.400 --> 1:48:55.280 actually within the halls of power, right, because he's not 1:48:55.600 --> 1:48:57.880 super within the halls of power yet, but he is. 1:48:58.120 --> 1:49:00.320 He's all over TV and shit, like he's guy that 1:49:00.439 --> 1:49:03.000 you call now, Like once you get in the rolodex 1:49:03.080 --> 1:49:04.920 of media people, you stay there, you. 1:49:04.960 --> 1:49:06.600 Know, he's the nuke guy you want to he's the 1:49:06.680 --> 1:49:09.320 other guy, a positive nuke guy. There's people that you 1:49:09.360 --> 1:49:10.559 gonna get the negative nuke guy in. 1:49:10.560 --> 1:49:12.479 The positive nuke guy, and he's the guy who says 1:49:12.479 --> 1:49:14.720 we don't have enough. You know, the thing, we've ever 1:49:14.920 --> 1:49:18.920 not had enough of nuclear weapons. He is a big 1:49:19.000 --> 1:49:21.080 part of why we have so many fucking nukes and 1:49:21.160 --> 1:49:22.960 why the Russians have so many fucking nukes because once 1:49:23.040 --> 1:49:24.880 the US, like, once you start this, like we have 1:49:24.920 --> 1:49:26.840 to build a lot more nukes, They're gonna build even 1:49:26.880 --> 1:49:28.679 more nukes, and like then you're gonna get to build 1:49:28.680 --> 1:49:30.280 any more nukes because you can say they built so 1:49:30.320 --> 1:49:32.080 many more nukes, we don't have enough nukes now, and 1:49:32.600 --> 1:49:34.439 then you wind up put like twelve thousand of them 1:49:34.479 --> 1:49:34.880 in the world. 1:49:35.240 --> 1:49:37.400 I have a name for that, I can. I've come 1:49:37.439 --> 1:49:40.280 over right now. Nuclear arms race. That's cool. 1:49:40.560 --> 1:49:44.120 That's that's a neat one. We should finally a term 1:49:44.200 --> 1:49:44.439 for it. 1:49:44.600 --> 1:49:46.640 We should nuke him. I mean that would just be 1:49:46.800 --> 1:49:50.200 like the one thing I would one made it, just 1:49:50.360 --> 1:49:53.800 nuke him one if the dam Crockett handheld missile watcher 1:49:53.920 --> 1:49:55.439 sweating every wee could do. 1:49:56.080 --> 1:49:58.840 What about just a little a little tiny nuke that 1:49:58.920 --> 1:50:04.479 we shoot into him explodes, But it's just a little guy, Kissinger. 1:50:04.640 --> 1:50:07.160 Yeah, you're nuclear weapon. 1:50:07.400 --> 1:50:10.439 Yeah, but he would just ingest it and go I 1:50:10.560 --> 1:50:14.080 am no, I'm bigger and more upset it is. 1:50:14.240 --> 1:50:17.559 It is amazing to think about how seriously this guy 1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:20.639 gets treated by everyone immediately, and how much influence he's 1:50:20.640 --> 1:50:23.439 allowed to have on an incredibly dangerous thing. And this 1:50:23.600 --> 1:50:28.360 is the same guy who got tricked by Farranos, the 1:50:28.520 --> 1:50:31.760 same nude he gets winked by the fake blood lady 1:50:31.800 --> 1:50:38.439 in the turtleneck. It's really amazing. Yeah, it's so funny. 1:50:38.680 --> 1:50:46.240 It's so funny. So uh, Kissinger is is not Again, 1:50:46.320 --> 1:50:48.080 he doesn't come up with the idea of the missile gap, 1:50:48.120 --> 1:50:50.880 but he's like a very influential voice in pushing this idea. Right, 1:50:50.920 --> 1:50:53.559 he's a he's a part of this. So he doesn't 1:50:53.560 --> 1:50:55.360 get there if we could out honestly do a whole 1:50:55.400 --> 1:50:57.560 episode on like why there's so many fucking nukes that 1:50:57.600 --> 1:50:59.200 this would be a part of. But he is, he's 1:50:59.240 --> 1:51:02.200 a factor in this massive arms build up, and he 1:51:02.320 --> 1:51:06.160 also starts, uh, but but he's also like he's he's 1:51:06.320 --> 1:51:08.800 just doing this for careerism. Reasons because it like gets 1:51:08.880 --> 1:51:10.640 him in good with people who are in power. And 1:51:10.720 --> 1:51:13.840 part of how you know that is that Kennedy not 1:51:13.960 --> 1:51:15.560 a guy I'll give a lot of credit to. But 1:51:15.680 --> 1:51:17.719 one of the things Kennedy says is that, like limited 1:51:17.800 --> 1:51:22.360 nuclear war is insane. Like fuck you, Henry Kissinger. He 1:51:22.439 --> 1:51:25.160 doesn't say that, but he it. It gets made clear 1:51:25.280 --> 1:51:27.439 the connections that Kissinger has in the in the Kennedy 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:30.960 administration make it clear that like JFK does not buy 1:51:31.320 --> 1:51:33.280 your attitudes on limited nuclear war. 1:51:33.600 --> 1:51:34.160 And so he. 1:51:34.360 --> 1:51:37.960 Stops talking about that. He wants to become part He 1:51:38.000 --> 1:51:39.760 doesn't believe in shit, but he wants to be in 1:51:39.800 --> 1:51:43.000 the JFK administration, Right, so he stops pushing this thing 1:51:43.080 --> 1:51:46.040 that makes him famous and saying other shit because he'll 1:51:46.040 --> 1:51:47.640 get it'll get him closer to power. And that's all 1:51:47.640 --> 1:51:49.200 Henry Kissinger really cares about. 1:51:49.400 --> 1:51:51.240 Yeah, so I wonder if, like the Today Show is 1:51:51.280 --> 1:51:51.720 calling up. 1:51:51.680 --> 1:51:53.799 And he's like, you know, I'm not really doing nukes anymore. 1:51:54.439 --> 1:51:55.320 No, he comes on. 1:51:55.760 --> 1:51:58.120 Yeah, the quote I'm gonna quote actually from Nia Ferguson 1:51:58.160 --> 1:52:00.400 here he explains like what he starts doing on the 1:52:00.479 --> 1:52:06.320 Today Show. Yeah, Kissinger now advocated a conventional arms build up, 1:52:06.360 --> 1:52:09.240 since the dividing line between conventional and nuclear weapons is 1:52:09.280 --> 1:52:12.240 more familiar and therefore easier to maintain. He continued to 1:52:12.320 --> 1:52:15.040 insist that the United States developed smaller nuclear weapons, but 1:52:15.120 --> 1:52:17.400 he moved his own position to where he thought Kennedy's was. 1:52:17.720 --> 1:52:20.000 In effect, the necessity of choice was something of a 1:52:20.160 --> 1:52:25.200 job application, and Kissinger hoped Kennedy would make an offer. So, like, again, 1:52:25.320 --> 1:52:28.400 so it doesn't really, I mean, it's it's just Marjorie 1:52:28.439 --> 1:52:29.000 Taylor Green. 1:52:29.240 --> 1:52:31.479 I mean it is the same shit essentially, And it's like, 1:52:31.920 --> 1:52:35.120 you know, the sensationalism that gets you the headlines and 1:52:35.240 --> 1:52:37.679 then once you're fail, it's any it's really any form 1:52:37.760 --> 1:52:41.280 of our pop culture entertainment. Now, just get your name 1:52:41.360 --> 1:52:43.840 in the fucking headlines and then define who you are 1:52:44.320 --> 1:52:46.719 and then you can like figure out what you actually 1:52:46.840 --> 1:52:50.080 think and actually believe or how you're going to ride 1:52:50.120 --> 1:52:53.560 that to power. Yeah, just make a bang. It's the 1:52:53.720 --> 1:52:54.120 it is it. 1:52:54.320 --> 1:52:56.960 It is like the political equivalent of a comedian like 1:52:57.520 --> 1:52:59.960 saying a racial slur and then listening to the audience 1:53:00.080 --> 1:53:01.559 to determine whether or not they're joking. 1:53:02.000 --> 1:53:06.519 Like that's what he's doing. He's it's yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:53:06.520 --> 1:53:08.360 I mean show up to a club, take your dick out, 1:53:08.479 --> 1:53:11.760 and then right your hour. Yeah, it's called it's uh 1:53:12.160 --> 1:53:17.519 luisyk backwards. It's the it's the Casey. I'm not going 1:53:17.560 --> 1:53:18.160 to figure out what. 1:53:18.160 --> 1:53:18.559 The back. 1:53:20.400 --> 1:53:25.599 Casey Casey Sewell yeh. So this he does not get 1:53:25.640 --> 1:53:27.640 exactly what he wants, but he gets part of what 1:53:27.760 --> 1:53:31.960 he wants. His buddy, uh Notlson Rockefeller is able to 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:34.719 give him a part time consulting gig for the National 1:53:34.760 --> 1:53:37.840 Security Advisor. So it's not but it's not everything he wants, 1:53:37.880 --> 1:53:41.640 but he is now he's he has like he you know, 1:53:41.880 --> 1:53:44.840 like you start your way in and it's unless you 1:53:45.000 --> 1:53:47.439 really fuck up. And by fuck up, I mean don't 1:53:47.479 --> 1:53:49.599 get a lot of people killed. You'll just get closer 1:53:49.640 --> 1:53:52.160 and closer to power because that's how our system works. 1:53:54.040 --> 1:53:58.360 So you know, Kissinger is is obviously very conservative. Rockefeller 1:53:58.520 --> 1:54:00.600 is not. Again, he's part of the Kennedy administration. This 1:54:00.720 --> 1:54:01.799 is what I don't understand. 1:54:02.360 --> 1:54:03.280 Yeah, well, I we'll talk. 1:54:03.360 --> 1:54:05.000 We're actually we're going to talk a shitload about that 1:54:05.080 --> 1:54:07.200 over the next couple of episodes, because this is like 1:54:07.320 --> 1:54:11.160 a consistent weird thing about him. But like One of 1:54:11.160 --> 1:54:14.360 the things Kissinger does is he oils Rockefeller with effusive 1:54:14.439 --> 1:54:17.800 claims that Kennedy's inaugural speech, which Rockefeller had helped with, 1:54:18.280 --> 1:54:21.800 was so good he quote might become a registered Democrat, Right, 1:54:21.840 --> 1:54:23.559 that's the kind of shit. He says that, like, I'm 1:54:23.560 --> 1:54:25.720 almost a Democrat now because how good JFK. 1:54:25.560 --> 1:54:26.679 Speech was so good. 1:54:28.920 --> 1:54:32.600 He doesn't believe in ship like I can't overemphasize that 1:54:32.720 --> 1:54:35.960 other than that, Henry Kissinger should be very close to power. 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:39.760 He believes strongly in that, and he believes in that 1:54:39.960 --> 1:54:41.760 as much as anyone's ever believed in the Bible. 1:54:41.920 --> 1:54:42.080 Right. 1:54:43.200 --> 1:54:44.600 He does not believe in ideas. 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:51.600 Birthday to the President. I saw what Maryland did and 1:54:53.240 --> 1:54:59.160 testament sometimes the president. 1:55:02.080 --> 1:55:05.400 Would you like to see where they call me Kissinger? Oh, 1:55:05.680 --> 1:55:07.960 I'm standing over this event and look at what they're 1:55:07.960 --> 1:55:11.840 doing to my book. See that's the fan art. I 1:55:11.880 --> 1:55:15.480 would have him kiss just like trying to fuck JFK 1:55:15.720 --> 1:55:18.280 with every bit of charm in his German body. 1:55:18.600 --> 1:55:21.720 Oh dude, nobody told me Subway go over vent Look 1:55:21.760 --> 1:55:26.080 at this, You're going to see everything goes nuke. 1:55:30.120 --> 1:55:33.920 So JFK is eventually assassinated by Bernard Montgomery s and 1:55:34.080 --> 1:55:37.560 LBJ takes over. Oh yeah, I mean history is a 1:55:38.240 --> 1:55:42.960 read this banquet. I've got a pamphlet for you myself. 1:55:43.280 --> 1:55:44.040 That's my length. 1:55:46.640 --> 1:55:50.440 So LBJ is the president now and and LBJ is 1:55:50.520 --> 1:55:52.560 like between LGMJK. It's like a decade you know that 1:55:52.680 --> 1:55:56.280 the Democrats are in power, and LBJ is very good 1:55:56.360 --> 1:56:02.280 at exercising power. Right, And he's also super into Henry Kissinger. 1:56:03.280 --> 1:56:06.560 He's not against Henry Kissinger either, but Henry kind of 1:56:06.680 --> 1:56:09.959 is kept in this weird like he's on the margins 1:56:10.000 --> 1:56:13.080 of power during this period of time, right finally, which 1:56:13.160 --> 1:56:19.000 is yeah, well not really because while he's there's no breath, 1:56:19.040 --> 1:56:24.000 there's there's no breath, there's good to hear. While he's 1:56:24.120 --> 1:56:26.520 kind of on the not you know, on the margins, 1:56:26.560 --> 1:56:29.800 he's able to build connections with as many Republican lawmakers 1:56:29.800 --> 1:56:31.520 and their aids as he does with Democrats, right, Like 1:56:31.600 --> 1:56:33.400 that's what he's doing while he's doing these like part 1:56:33.440 --> 1:56:35.800 time gigs with the NSC and stuff, is he's he's 1:56:35.880 --> 1:56:39.720 making friends with everybody he can. There is nobody. 1:56:40.320 --> 1:56:44.120 He's just networker, like he is just a supreme networker. 1:56:44.240 --> 1:56:45.840 Yeah, right, there is so. 1:56:45.960 --> 1:56:48.240 Much when I was a kid in speech and debate, 1:56:48.360 --> 1:56:50.000 one of the other kids in the debate team with 1:56:50.080 --> 1:56:52.560 me was obsessed with Kissinger, like read his books and stuff, 1:56:52.600 --> 1:56:54.600 thought held and this was this thing that I heard 1:56:54.680 --> 1:56:57.280 too from like family members and stuff that like, well 1:56:57.320 --> 1:56:58.880 he was you know, he wasn't always right, but it 1:56:59.000 --> 1:57:01.400 was he was doing the hardest job anyone's ever had, 1:57:01.440 --> 1:57:03.400 and he was just this really genius man and you 1:57:03.480 --> 1:57:05.040 can't really argue with him if you read about what 1:57:05.080 --> 1:57:06.400 he was saying, and it's like, no, he. 1:57:06.400 --> 1:57:07.840 Didn't believe in shit he was. 1:57:08.080 --> 1:57:11.240 He was a genius at making people like him, and 1:57:12.120 --> 1:57:17.320 that allowed him to horrible things. Yeah, which I guess, 1:57:17.480 --> 1:57:20.680 like anyone who's really dangerous in politics is that's as 1:57:20.720 --> 1:57:24.320 a version of that guy, right, Like yeah, like that's 1:57:24.400 --> 1:57:28.600 that's all of them. But he's he's an interesting kind 1:57:28.840 --> 1:57:31.560 of that guy and as a result, probably the most 1:57:31.600 --> 1:57:33.480 toxic kind of that guy we've ever had in the 1:57:33.600 --> 1:57:44.360 United States. Wow, which is saying something really bad, but yeah, so, yeah, 1:57:44.440 --> 1:57:47.520 he makes all these connections, he cultivates them, and he 1:57:47.600 --> 1:57:49.200 keeps his name in the news. Right, That's a big 1:57:49.280 --> 1:57:50.560 part of why he's able to do what he is. 1:57:50.640 --> 1:57:53.200 Later he keeps going on TV, keeps being on the radio, 1:57:53.240 --> 1:57:55.600 He keeps being quoted and like cited and interviewed by 1:57:55.680 --> 1:57:58.160 journalists for articles. Henry makes it known that, like, if 1:57:58.200 --> 1:58:00.880 you're a journalist, I'm easy to reach you. Always give 1:58:00.920 --> 1:58:03.280 you a quote. You can always reach Henry Kissinger for 1:58:03.400 --> 1:58:05.240 like a line or two on this thing, you know, 1:58:06.960 --> 1:58:10.720 which is very smart of him. It's very dumb and 1:58:10.800 --> 1:58:14.320 shameful and uh uh horrible for the journalists. 1:58:14.640 --> 1:58:18.840 Yeah him, but like, yeah, God that they've learned. God, 1:58:18.920 --> 1:58:20.880 that doesn't happen anymore now. 1:58:20.960 --> 1:58:23.280 I turned to the New York Times story published today 1:58:23.320 --> 1:58:26.160 that described Nazis assaulting a book club as men with 1:58:26.280 --> 1:58:33.680 a swastika flag. Someone pointed out, well, the article calls 1:58:33.720 --> 1:58:35.840 them Nazis. It's just all of the social media they 1:58:35.880 --> 1:58:38.960 described them that way. And I was like, oh, I 1:58:39.000 --> 1:58:41.400 can't explain to you why I feel worse about that, 1:58:41.640 --> 1:58:42.080 but I do. 1:58:42.520 --> 1:58:44.640 Yeah, it was not just that. It was not just 1:58:44.720 --> 1:58:48.560 the dumb error. It was calculus. Yeah, yeah, moral calculus. 1:58:48.720 --> 1:58:52.480 It's yeah, moral calculus, right, good, good ship. So the 1:58:52.560 --> 1:58:55.520 professor cultivates connections, Yeah, he gets good. He also he 1:58:55.560 --> 1:58:57.640 goes to Vietnam at one point and he makes connections 1:58:57.680 --> 1:58:59.760 with a bunch of people in Vietnam who were able 1:58:59.800 --> 1:59:02.640 to to not just the South but the North Vietnamese government. 1:59:02.680 --> 1:59:04.200 Like that's the thing he consciously does is like I 1:59:04.240 --> 1:59:06.160 want to be able to like be able to take 1:59:06.200 --> 1:59:08.360 the temperature of like guys, which is not like I 1:59:08.400 --> 1:59:10.560 would say, actually, like the most reasonable thing he does. 1:59:10.600 --> 1:59:12.600 If you think you're going to be in power, Like, yeah, 1:59:12.600 --> 1:59:14.000 it's good you you probably want to be able to 1:59:14.000 --> 1:59:15.560 talk to those guys. Even though we're fighting with him. 1:59:15.560 --> 1:59:18.640 That's not an unreasonable thing. He will use it badly, Right, 1:59:18.760 --> 1:59:21.760 Who's he's doing that on the part of just himself? Yeah, 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:23.720 what well he is working, he has a gig with 1:59:23.800 --> 1:59:26.160 the guy he's like an advisor to the National Security Council, 1:59:26.320 --> 1:59:29.200 and he's a known academic. You know, he's probably being like, 1:59:29.280 --> 1:59:31.400 you know, I'm an academic. I'm trying to understand the 1:59:31.440 --> 1:59:33.960 dimensions of this and like I want to talk to everybody. 1:59:33.960 --> 1:59:36.200 I'm a very fair minded man. I don't let ideology 1:59:36.240 --> 1:59:38.880 get in the way. YadA YadA, YadA. Like one of 1:59:38.920 --> 1:59:41.480 the things about Henry Kissinger too, like he's as good 1:59:41.760 --> 1:59:44.160 he can he's he's fucking his buddies with Mao. Like, 1:59:44.240 --> 1:59:46.920 he's great at talking with people who are communists and stuff. 1:59:47.280 --> 1:59:50.760 As long as you like Henry Kissinger and what he's selling, 1:59:51.040 --> 1:59:52.200 he'll sell it to anybody. 1:59:52.440 --> 1:59:57.440 Yeah, it's so crazy. It's wild that like he might 1:59:57.520 --> 1:59:59.840 he must have eyes that just start spinning in h 2:00:00.160 --> 2:00:01.960 Like you just have to get close to notice that 2:00:02.000 --> 2:00:04.160 he's got hypnotic eyes. You're like, oh, he isn't so 2:00:04.360 --> 2:00:06.160 bad now that I'm taking him. 2:00:08.000 --> 2:00:10.920 You know, let's think about Vietnam for a second. Right, 2:00:11.200 --> 2:00:14.360 if you're going to war in Vietnam, Gareth, Right, if 2:00:14.400 --> 2:00:16.360 you decide how to go, Gareth Reynolds, I'm going to 2:00:16.400 --> 2:00:18.320 go to war in Vietnam. How long do you think 2:00:18.320 --> 2:00:19.920 it would take you to realize that was a bad idea? 2:00:20.120 --> 2:00:23.240 It would be I mean, I Gareth Reynolds, it would 2:00:23.240 --> 2:00:27.600 be instantaneous, very quickly, very quickly. I mean it's David. Yeah, 2:00:28.000 --> 2:00:29.040 can I okay? 2:00:29.080 --> 2:00:30.560 Can I just can I ask a question? 2:00:30.640 --> 2:00:34.760 Which side am I fighting on? The not Vietnamese site? Okay? 2:00:34.800 --> 2:00:37.840 Then really quick? Yeah, really quick. I feel like you could. 2:00:37.880 --> 2:00:39.840 I feel like you could. You could take Vietnam, David, 2:00:39.960 --> 2:00:42.040 Dave going to see it the night they're not going 2:00:42.120 --> 2:00:44.240 to see it coming. I would certainly be the guy 2:00:44.280 --> 2:00:46.440 who they'd be like, we broke him. We broke him 2:00:46.440 --> 2:00:49.280 before we even shouted at him. I'm sorry. I didn't 2:00:49.280 --> 2:00:51.400 mean to show up with pants that were already pissed in. 2:00:52.000 --> 2:00:52.240 I know. 2:00:52.440 --> 2:00:54.160 I know one thing about me, and that's that if 2:00:54.200 --> 2:00:58.160 things got really, really chaotic and bad, that I I 2:00:58.400 --> 2:00:59.680 kind of thrive in that environment. 2:00:59.800 --> 2:01:01.960 Yeah, you'd be like, Dave, we don't have time to 2:01:02.000 --> 2:01:04.080 eat their brains. He'd be like, shut up, I'm figuring 2:01:04.080 --> 2:01:08.000 out what they know. It's like Doctor Manhattan ending the 2:01:08.120 --> 2:01:08.800 Vietnam War. 2:01:13.960 --> 2:01:18.440 Both sides surrendered to Dave in the mid sixties, which 2:01:18.480 --> 2:01:21.200 is fairly early on considering how late the Vietnam War goes. 2:01:21.480 --> 2:01:23.440 It is clear to people, especially a lot of people 2:01:23.520 --> 2:01:25.360 protesting in the United States, they're like, oh shit, this 2:01:25.400 --> 2:01:25.960 ain't going. 2:01:25.840 --> 2:01:29.200 Great, right, Like, it's not hard for people. 2:01:29.200 --> 2:01:31.280 There are people who buy into the US propaganda, but 2:01:31.400 --> 2:01:34.440 like people who are actually privy to information on the 2:01:34.560 --> 2:01:36.839 war are aware that it is not going well. Kissinger 2:01:36.920 --> 2:01:39.480 still decides we should escalate things. And I'm going to 2:01:39.600 --> 2:01:43.040 quote again from Kissinger's Shadow by Greg Brandon. Upon returning 2:01:43.080 --> 2:01:45.320 from his first visit to South Vietnam, and late nineteen 2:01:45.360 --> 2:01:48.040 sixty five, Kissinger threw himself into a campaign to build 2:01:48.080 --> 2:01:51.440 public support for ongoing intervention. In early December, he joined 2:01:51.480 --> 2:01:53.880 one hundred and eighty nine other scholars from Harvard, Yale, 2:01:53.960 --> 2:01:56.440 and fifteen other New England universities in an open letter 2:01:56.560 --> 2:02:00.320 expressing confidence that Johnson's policies would help quote people South 2:02:00.400 --> 2:02:05.200 Vietnam determine their own destiny. Vietcom victory will spell disasters, 2:02:05.240 --> 2:02:08.080 said the letter. Then later that month, he led a 2:02:08.120 --> 2:02:11.560 Harvard team against a group of Oxford opponents of the war, 2:02:11.640 --> 2:02:14.560 and a debate held in Great Britain and broadcast nationally 2:02:14.760 --> 2:02:18.360 in the United States on CBS. Kissinger passionately defended the 2:02:18.360 --> 2:02:20.960 bombing of northern Vietnam, insisting that it was not a 2:02:21.040 --> 2:02:24.040 violation of international law. He invoked the analogy of World 2:02:24.080 --> 2:02:26.640 War Two, saying Washington's actions in Indo China were as 2:02:26.720 --> 2:02:29.880 righteous and justified as they were in Nazi Germany. Bob Schroum, 2:02:29.960 --> 2:02:32.560 who went on to become a Democratic political consultant, was 2:02:32.600 --> 2:02:35.040 on Kissinger's team and says that when he today watches 2:02:35.080 --> 2:02:37.280 a recording of the of the debate, he is quote 2:02:37.520 --> 2:02:41.120 amazed by two things. How young we look, even Kissinger, 2:02:41.280 --> 2:02:44.480 and how wrong we were. So first off, I bought Kissinger, 2:02:44.920 --> 2:02:46.560 you don't feel bad enough. I don't know how bad 2:02:46.600 --> 2:02:47.240 you feel about this. 2:02:47.440 --> 2:02:51.440 It's not enough. Your first reaction be like, god, we 2:02:51.520 --> 2:02:55.640 were kids, were young, we were young. 2:02:56.240 --> 2:02:58.800 There's like some Vietnam these dude next to him thinking 2:02:58.800 --> 2:03:01.360 about like bomb's race down on the jungle and. 2:03:03.120 --> 2:03:07.280 Cross feedback. We had Kissinger, Oh my god, it's joelous. 2:03:07.800 --> 2:03:10.200 Heck yeah, he's only got one jowl at that time. 2:03:10.280 --> 2:03:13.080 That's before he got the eight Our hair looked so stupid? 2:03:13.120 --> 2:03:13.560 Am I right? 2:03:13.640 --> 2:03:13.840 Am I? 2:03:13.920 --> 2:03:14.040 Right? 2:03:14.080 --> 2:03:19.080 Where did your legs go? By the way, before Henry 2:03:19.160 --> 2:03:21.440 Kissinger looked like weird science. 2:03:21.520 --> 2:03:27.160 After things go wrong, it's amazing, like and it's it's 2:03:27.360 --> 2:03:31.160 there's a lot in that paragraph both like of course, 2:03:31.440 --> 2:03:34.160 when the debate starts to build, like should we escalate 2:03:34.360 --> 2:03:37.800 this nightmarish war? The first thing, one of the first 2:03:37.840 --> 2:03:39.880 things that happens is that a bunch of fucking New 2:03:39.960 --> 2:03:43.160 England universities decided to have a debate about it. Right, yeah, right, 2:03:43.320 --> 2:03:45.880 that's the right, Like, let's let everyone here, let's have 2:03:45.960 --> 2:03:47.280 the best arguments of both. 2:03:47.160 --> 2:03:49.760 Sides about whether or not behinds. 2:03:50.240 --> 2:03:54.400 Yeah, like, first off, fuck everyone involved in this, even 2:03:54.440 --> 2:03:56.560 the people arguing against the wall a little bit like 2:03:56.880 --> 2:03:58.760 just don't do that's the premist. 2:03:58.880 --> 2:04:00.520 Yeah, the premiss it's bad. 2:04:00.880 --> 2:04:04.960 Yeah. Less so certainly, I don't know, I don't know. 2:04:05.040 --> 2:04:08.200 Maybe like it made sense, there's a virgins debating which 2:04:08.280 --> 2:04:14.400 position is the best to fucking why is this instead 2:04:14.400 --> 2:04:18.280 of the debate like hey, why are we there? Like 2:04:18.440 --> 2:04:22.680 really why? Sorry, that's we're not we're not debating that, 2:04:22.920 --> 2:04:26.360 we're not asking that. It's not the debate, and it is. 2:04:27.560 --> 2:04:30.560 Again, it's like and you can see just about how 2:04:30.600 --> 2:04:33.360 comprehensively wrong these people are that like number one, this 2:04:33.520 --> 2:04:35.560 idea that this will help the people of South Vietnam 2:04:35.600 --> 2:04:38.520 determine their own destiny, which is, the South Vietnamese government 2:04:38.640 --> 2:04:40.920 was a dictatorship the entire time the war was going on. 2:04:41.200 --> 2:04:44.240 It's not any more democratic in any meaningful sense than 2:04:44.520 --> 2:04:47.520 than the Northern Vietnam. And also like a Vietcong victory 2:04:47.520 --> 2:04:50.440 will spell disasters, Like there's plenty of things to criticize 2:04:50.440 --> 2:04:53.320 the Vietnamese government for, but like broadly on an international level, 2:04:53.400 --> 2:04:56.320 it's fine. The country seems seems to be doing all right, 2:04:56.480 --> 2:05:00.760 like better than a lot of places. It's fine. Yeah, 2:05:00.880 --> 2:05:03.960 did pretty good job at COVID, like you know it did. 2:05:04.080 --> 2:05:06.760 It didn't seem like a disaster. Maybe if we hadn't 2:05:06.840 --> 2:05:11.480 killed five million people, things would be even better. It 2:05:11.960 --> 2:05:13.040 seems like it couldn't hurt. 2:05:13.520 --> 2:05:13.720 Yeah. 2:05:15.720 --> 2:05:20.000 Yeah, Again, they're wrong about everything. Like Kissinger in this period, 2:05:20.080 --> 2:05:23.000 everything that he said, like that'sz he has, this reputation 2:05:23.160 --> 2:05:26.400 is such an intellectual titan, and he's like so constantly 2:05:26.480 --> 2:05:27.120 fucking wrong. 2:05:27.480 --> 2:05:29.920 But he didn't bring up there's always like yeah. 2:05:30.240 --> 2:05:32.280 It's the same as today, all of these people that 2:05:32.320 --> 2:05:36.400 are constantly fucking wrong. Just yeah, keep on getting positions 2:05:36.400 --> 2:05:38.640 of power and being media and they're always fucking wrong. 2:05:39.200 --> 2:05:41.480 And there's this shit like people will will bring up 2:05:41.560 --> 2:05:43.640 like whoa, but there's this nuclear arms treaty he helped make, 2:05:43.680 --> 2:05:45.480 and there's this like peace deal he negotiated in the 2:05:45.480 --> 2:05:47.160 Middle East and like all of these things like yeah, 2:05:47.200 --> 2:05:49.640 but that was like two percent of the shit that 2:05:49.720 --> 2:05:53.200 he did, and it was largely because other people that 2:05:53.360 --> 2:05:55.960 he wanted to stay in good with were pushing for 2:05:56.040 --> 2:05:59.040 that kind of shit too, like Henry Kissinger. Whenever he 2:05:59.200 --> 2:06:03.200 has expressed an idea that is his legitimate idea is 2:06:03.480 --> 2:06:07.760 like really really disastrously wrong. Yeah, amazing, Yeah, fuck it, 2:06:07.920 --> 2:06:12.160 nobody cares, Yeah, nobody cares. He's gotta get to invest 2:06:12.200 --> 2:06:15.320 in Therano still as opposed to being the one victory, 2:06:15.760 --> 2:06:18.920 the one victory we want to that's why we should 2:06:19.000 --> 2:06:23.840 pardon her. Yeah, yeah, look, you stole a lot of money, 2:06:23.920 --> 2:06:25.360 but you made Henry Kissinger. 2:06:25.920 --> 2:06:28.080 We're gonna release you to come up with another scheme 2:06:28.200 --> 2:06:31.760 to take more money from this bag of ship. You 2:06:31.800 --> 2:06:32.320 don't get to. 2:06:32.320 --> 2:06:34.720 Make a company anymore, but we're gonna have cameras fall. 2:06:35.720 --> 2:06:39.160 Think of you, Frank Show. Have you seen punked? 2:06:39.360 --> 2:06:44.320 You can't. It's just every week for a Kissinger. 2:06:44.720 --> 2:06:47.480 You're gonna put on mustaches and like fake wigs, and 2:06:47.560 --> 2:06:48.640 you're just gonna try. 2:06:48.480 --> 2:06:50.640 To find telling me this is a way for me 2:06:50.760 --> 2:06:56.040 to get a longer spine. I mean, popcorn has zero calories. 2:06:57.040 --> 2:06:57.480 I'm here. 2:06:58.760 --> 2:07:01.800 But you know it's about that story. Is that she's 2:07:02.040 --> 2:07:06.440 a younger female kissinger. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. She's 2:07:06.640 --> 2:07:09.600 like blood kissing. Everyone was super into her, and she 2:07:09.760 --> 2:07:11.600 was just saying whatever people wanted to hear, and like. 2:07:12.000 --> 2:07:15.960 Yeah, right, it's amazing because there's there's the good grifters 2:07:16.000 --> 2:07:17.800 and the evil ones. We just finished our four parterre 2:07:17.840 --> 2:07:19.560 on the Tzar and talked about the fact that, like 2:07:19.680 --> 2:07:23.280 before Respute and there was another spiritualist grifter who pretended 2:07:23.320 --> 2:07:26.160 to talk to like ghosts and stuff named Philippe, who 2:07:26.320 --> 2:07:28.560 like got a bunch of money for them, tricked the 2:07:28.600 --> 2:07:31.240 Tsarina into thinking she was pregnant, and then bounced with 2:07:31.280 --> 2:07:33.240 a bunch of their money. And the last thing he 2:07:33.360 --> 2:07:36.760 did before he left was like, I'm gonna come back 2:07:36.800 --> 2:07:40.000 in another form as another spiritual he should trust whatever 2:07:40.080 --> 2:07:40.480 I said. 2:07:40.960 --> 2:07:41.600 Very funny. 2:07:42.200 --> 2:07:44.680 Took all the money and ran, and when he died, 2:07:44.720 --> 2:07:46.360 it was found out that he had been paying for 2:07:46.520 --> 2:07:49.520 the mortgages and rentals of like fifty two impoverished families. 2:07:49.920 --> 2:07:54.200 Like the perfect guy, like the opposite of Kissing. Yeah yeah, 2:07:55.760 --> 2:07:58.600 just taking money from the tsar to help pour people out. 2:07:58.640 --> 2:07:59.160 What a dude. 2:08:00.120 --> 2:08:04.440 Great if he showed up again, Yeah yeah, let's put 2:08:04.440 --> 2:08:06.960 that guy in front of Kissinger, see what he can do. 2:08:09.280 --> 2:08:12.840 So in private, Kissinger admitted already, while he is doing 2:08:12.880 --> 2:08:14.720 all this, while he's a part of this big debate, 2:08:14.800 --> 2:08:16.240 you know, while he's taking the side that we should 2:08:16.320 --> 2:08:19.160 escalate in private. In his conversations, he admits to his 2:08:19.240 --> 2:08:21.800 friends that Vietnam is an unwinnable disaster of a war. 2:08:22.560 --> 2:08:25.760 Oh my fucking god. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2:08:26.240 --> 2:08:29.160 He defended it in public though, because there was at 2:08:29.240 --> 2:08:31.480 least a fifty percent chance the Democrats were going to 2:08:31.520 --> 2:08:33.880 stay in power after the next election. That is, he 2:08:34.160 --> 2:08:35.520 he didn't want to give up on the chance of 2:08:35.560 --> 2:08:36.040 having a job. 2:08:36.440 --> 2:08:38.120 You know, I think a lot of times you just 2:08:38.280 --> 2:08:40.680 you do. I guess he's a little different because he's 2:08:40.720 --> 2:08:43.720 such a shape shifter. Yeah, you know, there, I think, 2:08:43.760 --> 2:08:45.920 And it's just the way we are. You are, like, 2:08:46.040 --> 2:08:50.360 they can't just be that base evil. Yeah, he sure can. 2:08:50.720 --> 2:08:53.400 He yeah, m hmm. 2:08:53.520 --> 2:08:53.720 Yeah. 2:08:54.000 --> 2:08:54.440 It's something. 2:08:54.640 --> 2:08:56.520 It's something I was thinking about with climate change, is 2:08:56.560 --> 2:08:59.640 that people can't wraps around the fact that there might 2:08:59.720 --> 2:09:03.320 be a significant portion of rich people in control who 2:09:03.440 --> 2:09:05.200 actually want everybody to die. 2:09:05.480 --> 2:09:09.480 Yeah yeah, or at least don't care, because what really 2:09:09.520 --> 2:09:12.480 matters is like maintaining their level of relative power to 2:09:12.560 --> 2:09:13.080 everyone else. 2:09:14.760 --> 2:09:16.360 What are they going to do? Call themselves out? 2:09:16.920 --> 2:09:21.040 Yeah, it's cool. So obviously it's one of those things. 2:09:21.040 --> 2:09:23.080 I don't actually know that he really believed that Vietnam 2:09:23.160 --> 2:09:24.560 was a disaster because he may have been lying to 2:09:24.640 --> 2:09:26.080 his friends when he said that because he wants to 2:09:26.200 --> 2:09:27.640 keep like he wants to keep a bridge to the 2:09:27.680 --> 2:09:29.800 other side open, you know, like it's impossible to say 2:09:29.920 --> 2:09:31.360 because he's fucking Henry Kissinger. 2:09:31.480 --> 2:09:35.680 Is it possible there's two Kissingers? Yes, Okay, what if 2:09:35.720 --> 2:09:40.480 there's six? Am they ever touched Cambodia will be oh, yeah, 2:09:40.520 --> 2:09:42.160 you know what. Yeah. 2:09:43.800 --> 2:09:47.200 So the fact that Kissinger in private be like, yeah, Vietnam, 2:09:47.280 --> 2:09:48.960 what a fuck up, and in public would be like, 2:09:49.120 --> 2:09:53.000 let me bing Shapiro about Vietnam tea win. This that 2:09:53.240 --> 2:09:55.520 really pissed off a lot of his friends, including the 2:09:55.560 --> 2:09:59.640 political scientist Hans Morgenthau. Kissinger had admitted to Morgan Thou 2:09:59.680 --> 2:10:02.440 that the or was unwinnable, unwinnable, even while he continued 2:10:02.440 --> 2:10:06.160 to go on in the media and advocate expanded saturation bombing. 2:10:06.560 --> 2:10:10.240 Morgan Thou found this deeply disappointing, but Henry was increasingly 2:10:10.360 --> 2:10:12.600 tailoring his public statements to the ear of a man 2:10:12.640 --> 2:10:17.520 who was already a fan of his work, Richard Millhouse Nixon. 2:10:17.800 --> 2:10:22.640 Can we get like, yeah, some sound effects, A lightning 2:10:23.040 --> 2:10:25.320 whips across the stream and a screen. 2:10:25.080 --> 2:10:26.000 A wolf House. 2:10:26.400 --> 2:10:27.880 Yeah, incomes the. 2:10:30.040 --> 2:10:32.360 Which we will do a whole Nixon episode one of 2:10:32.400 --> 2:10:35.640 these days. A lot of our Kissinger's series will also 2:10:35.720 --> 2:10:38.720 be about Nixon, because you can't unwrap the two men, you. 2:10:38.760 --> 2:10:39.680 Know, you can't. 2:10:40.080 --> 2:10:42.920 So there are two Kissingers. Yeah, one of them is 2:10:43.040 --> 2:10:47.520 Richard Nixon. So by the end of nineteen sixty eight, 2:10:47.600 --> 2:10:50.480 as the presidential race between Vice President Hubert Humphrey and 2:10:50.560 --> 2:10:53.960 former Vice President Richard Nixon heats up, Kissinger's profile had 2:10:54.040 --> 2:10:56.000 raised enough that he was seen as the front runner 2:10:56.080 --> 2:10:59.320 for a serious foreign policy job in either potential administration. 2:11:00.080 --> 2:11:02.760 Time went on either Yeah, he's got a gig, no 2:11:02.880 --> 2:11:07.200 matter what, Baby, It's just he's the raytheon of people. 2:11:12.480 --> 2:11:16.240 So as time goes on, though, he increasingly leans towards Nixon, 2:11:16.240 --> 2:11:19.480 which surprises his friends, whom he had told, quote, Richard 2:11:19.560 --> 2:11:21.920 Nixon is the most dangerous of all the men running 2:11:21.960 --> 2:11:22.839 to have his president. 2:11:23.920 --> 2:11:26.040 But I want him to give me a gig. Yeah, 2:11:29.040 --> 2:11:29.760 I need job. 2:11:33.600 --> 2:11:36.720 So he was heartbroken when his friend Rockefeller lost to Nixon, 2:11:37.080 --> 2:11:40.240 and he commented, now the Republican Party is a disaster 2:11:40.440 --> 2:11:42.400 and Nixon is not fit to be president. 2:11:42.840 --> 2:11:48.400 Oh my god, and over and oh this was they 2:11:48.400 --> 2:11:50.320 said about regular about Bush. 2:11:52.040 --> 2:11:55.720 Okay, yeah, it's always the same calculus. This is true. 2:11:55.840 --> 2:11:58.640 But Kissinger didn't let his complete contempt for Nixon stop 2:11:58.720 --> 2:12:00.280 him from trying to get a job with the man. 2:12:00.640 --> 2:12:04.040 To explain why, here's the New Yorker. It took Kissinger's 2:12:04.040 --> 2:12:07.400 close contemporary, the political theorist Sheldon Wolan, another son of 2:12:07.480 --> 2:12:09.600 Jewish immigras, who fought in the War and studied at 2:12:09.640 --> 2:12:13.240 Harvard with William Yandel Elliott, to fully dissect Kissinger's careerist 2:12:13.280 --> 2:12:16.520 and sincts. On the surface, Wollant observed, Kissinger would have 2:12:16.560 --> 2:12:19.480 appeared a mismatch for the anti elitist Nixon, but the 2:12:19.560 --> 2:12:22.600 pairing was perfect. Nixon needed someone who could elevate his 2:12:22.680 --> 2:12:25.400 opportunism to a higher plane of purpose and make him 2:12:25.400 --> 2:12:27.880 feel like a great figure in the drama of history. 2:12:28.240 --> 2:12:30.920 As Wolan wrote, what could have been more comforting to 2:12:31.000 --> 2:12:34.240 that barren and inarticulate soul than to hear the authoritative 2:12:34.280 --> 2:12:37.440 voice of doctor Kissinger, who spoke so often and knowingly 2:12:37.520 --> 2:12:38.880 about the meaning of history. 2:12:39.240 --> 2:12:45.800 Ugh, I mean, it's just an empty sack and an 2:12:45.920 --> 2:12:49.920 evil sack, and the evil sacks like I can feel you. Yeah, well, 2:12:52.960 --> 2:12:58.400 somebody's gonna off. Somebody's gonna load me with something. He's 2:12:58.440 --> 2:13:01.720 not gonna do it. Put all that black pile down astonomy, thank. 2:13:01.560 --> 2:13:06.640 You, Oh boy, Gareth, he doesn't call him Hank, but 2:13:06.680 --> 2:13:07.600 we'll get to that later. 2:13:09.440 --> 2:13:18.440 How come on this panky. It's a lot worse than that, Garethright, So, in. 2:13:18.560 --> 2:13:21.800 Nineteen sixty eight, the Johnson administration was carrying out an 2:13:21.840 --> 2:13:25.040 extensive series of negotiations between South and North Vietnam and 2:13:25.080 --> 2:13:28.240 an attempt to secure an end to the war. LBJ 2:13:28.920 --> 2:13:30.720 wants credit for his legacy, right, I'm not going to 2:13:30.720 --> 2:13:33.600 give LBJ credit for like caring about human death and suffering, 2:13:33.640 --> 2:13:35.720 because he's also a monster. 2:13:35.960 --> 2:13:36.080 Yea. 2:13:36.400 --> 2:13:39.040 No, not trying to make him seem good by comparison, 2:13:39.320 --> 2:13:41.120 But he sees ending the war both as a way 2:13:41.160 --> 2:13:42.840 Tolke I want to go out on a good note. 2:13:42.880 --> 2:13:44.760 And also this is going to if he could, if 2:13:44.760 --> 2:13:47.560 he could even secure a significant like ceasefire, that would 2:13:47.600 --> 2:13:50.720 help Humphrey get reelected. Right, because nobody's in the US 2:13:50.840 --> 2:13:53.920 is very pro the Vietnam War, within the majority of 2:13:54.000 --> 2:13:56.480 most voters are very anti its. So that's kind of 2:13:56.520 --> 2:13:59.000 the play that that lbj's making he wants to end 2:13:59.040 --> 2:14:01.760 the war in order to help Humphrey win. Over the 2:14:01.840 --> 2:14:04.600 course of the election year, his Secretary of State, National 2:14:04.680 --> 2:14:08.480 Security Adviser, and his Secretary of Defense, Clark Gifford, became 2:14:08.560 --> 2:14:11.120 aware that something was a miss. Some of the moves 2:14:11.320 --> 2:14:15.160 that the South Vietnamese government made which threatened the negotiation 2:14:15.280 --> 2:14:17.560 seemed bizarre. They would like take these wild changes where 2:14:17.560 --> 2:14:20.000 it's like, suddenly South Vietnam's not willing to negotiate, Like 2:14:20.080 --> 2:14:21.800 what the fuck? We had worked all this out. Why 2:14:21.800 --> 2:14:23.880 are you guys pulling out at the last minute? North Vietnam, 2:14:24.080 --> 2:14:26.560 Noam's willing to come to the table. In the trial 2:14:26.640 --> 2:14:30.160 of Henry Kissinger, Christopher Hitchin's rights quote from his seat 2:14:30.160 --> 2:14:32.839 in the Pentagon, Clifford, who's again the Secretary of Defense, 2:14:33.080 --> 2:14:35.600 had actually been able to read the intelligence transcripts that 2:14:35.640 --> 2:14:38.280 picked up and recorded what he terms a secret personal 2:14:38.440 --> 2:14:42.440 channel between President thw and Saigon. In the Nixon campaign, 2:14:42.800 --> 2:14:45.760 the chief interlocutor at the American end was John Mitchell, 2:14:45.960 --> 2:14:49.680 then Nixon's campaign manager and subsequently Attorney General. He was 2:14:49.760 --> 2:14:53.160 actively assisted by Madame Anna Chanal, known to all as 2:14:53.240 --> 2:14:56.080 the Dragon Lady, a fierce veteran of the Taiwan Lobby 2:14:56.160 --> 2:14:58.800 and all purpose right wing intriguer. She was a social 2:14:58.840 --> 2:15:00.880 and political force in the war Washington of her day. 2:15:01.600 --> 2:15:06.400 So lbj's administration, this is suspicious as fuck. Let's bug 2:15:06.480 --> 2:15:10.800 the Nixon campaign, right, which is not illegal obviously, Like you, 2:15:11.240 --> 2:15:13.480 it is an act of fucking treason to try and 2:15:13.560 --> 2:15:16.520 extend a war by sabotage negotiations. This is one of 2:15:16.560 --> 2:15:18.480 the very few cases where like, yeah, you should wire 2:15:18.520 --> 2:15:19.800 tap those people, you should. 2:15:20.000 --> 2:15:21.720 You should tap the fuck out of those phones. 2:15:22.680 --> 2:15:24.240 But it's also this is they don't want this to 2:15:24.280 --> 2:15:26.280 get LBJ doesn't want this shit to get out at all. 2:15:27.040 --> 2:15:30.160 This would be number one a hanging crime. You get 2:15:30.400 --> 2:15:33.120 executed for doing this kind of shit, like on paper 2:15:33.240 --> 2:15:36.920 at least, right, And so lbj's administration, while they're wired 2:15:36.960 --> 2:15:39.800 tapping Nixon and getting evidence about like this, what increasingly 2:15:39.800 --> 2:15:43.120 becomes clear as a conspiracy, keeps fucking quiet about it 2:15:43.360 --> 2:15:46.440 because they're worried that revealing this would create a crisis 2:15:46.480 --> 2:15:48.240 of confidence in the American government. 2:15:48.600 --> 2:15:53.400 My fucking fucking liberals, the fucking liberals. 2:15:54.160 --> 2:15:58.440 This is how many times, how many fucking times bustool 2:15:58.480 --> 2:15:59.920 two elections this is what they did. 2:16:00.600 --> 2:16:06.120 This is what they fucking did. It's really it really is. 2:16:07.840 --> 2:16:10.600 I mean yeah, it's just it's I mean the I 2:16:10.960 --> 2:16:15.720 that is so fucking crazy to put the clubhouse, Yeah, 2:16:16.440 --> 2:16:18.320 I mean above it. It is. It is like the 2:16:18.480 --> 2:16:22.440 one time where for president had had his political opponents hanged. Yeah, 2:16:22.440 --> 2:16:24.280 he'd be like, yeah, that's what you should have done, 2:16:24.440 --> 2:16:28.880 and you'd have to that one session of hangings really 2:16:28.920 --> 2:16:30.600 would have gone a long way with this country. 2:16:30.640 --> 2:16:32.840 You would be in so much a better position. They'd 2:16:32.879 --> 2:16:35.840 hung Nixon and several other people were about to talk about. 2:16:35.920 --> 2:16:39.920 And would also given Nixon good posture. Finally, yeah, finally I. 2:16:40.000 --> 2:16:43.400 Knew about that Nixon had done. I did not know 2:16:43.520 --> 2:16:46.279 that the that they knew. I didn't know they knew. 2:16:46.280 --> 2:16:50.320 At the time, like that, Oh yes, David fucking scene 2:16:51.360 --> 2:16:52.480 the liberal mind. 2:16:52.600 --> 2:16:56.119 I always think about this story about when the HUNTA 2:16:56.240 --> 2:17:00.680 took over in Chile before Pinochet got into power, and 2:17:00.800 --> 2:17:03.640 they asked all the they said, we want to have 2:17:03.800 --> 2:17:06.920 interviews with people, and the liberals so believed the government 2:17:07.000 --> 2:17:09.400 that they went and lined up for the secret police 2:17:09.480 --> 2:17:12.960 interviews because they're like, well, this is what we do. 2:17:13.800 --> 2:17:16.120 And they're like, no, they're taking your names down to 2:17:16.200 --> 2:17:19.560 possibly kill you. But they lined up because they're like, well, 2:17:19.640 --> 2:17:21.920 this is we don't want to mess up the system, 2:17:22.160 --> 2:17:25.680 like we're supposed to go to get interviewed by the government. Yeah, 2:17:25.720 --> 2:17:29.360 they're like it's a hunta like it just the mindset 2:17:29.520 --> 2:17:33.320 of just this is how our constitution works, and this 2:17:33.400 --> 2:17:34.960 is what we're supposed to do. And you're like, no, 2:17:35.080 --> 2:17:39.720 it's literally not working. The thing isn't working. This is 2:17:39.760 --> 2:17:41.720 a great This is one of the best examples ever. 2:17:41.680 --> 2:17:44.400 Of yeah, like yeah, and this is the germ of 2:17:44.520 --> 2:17:48.320 truth in Kissinger's whole ideology about conflict is that if 2:17:48.400 --> 2:17:50.760 you are in a conflict with someone who is willing 2:17:50.840 --> 2:17:53.400 to throw down and you weren't, they're going to win, right, 2:17:53.720 --> 2:17:55.280 Like that is a truth of history, right, It's a 2:17:55.320 --> 2:17:58.480 truth of fighting fascists. Right. It's not enough to say, 2:17:58.560 --> 2:18:00.600 like punching them isn't the entire of it. But if 2:18:00.640 --> 2:18:02.640 you're not willing to throw down, they will win, right. 2:18:04.040 --> 2:18:06.120 And that is a thing that has often taken exactly 2:18:06.200 --> 2:18:08.800 the wrong way at the geopolitical level. But like you 2:18:08.959 --> 2:18:12.480 see in this that like LBJ was not willing to 2:18:12.600 --> 2:18:16.040 throw down and Nixon was, and everything we're going to 2:18:16.080 --> 2:18:17.840 talk about in the rest of this series happens as 2:18:17.879 --> 2:18:22.640 a result. And it's like LBJ loved throwing down, but yes, 2:18:23.280 --> 2:18:26.000 it's amazing that he doesn't in this I think that's. 2:18:25.879 --> 2:18:28.600 The craziest thing is that, like that was the fucking 2:18:28.640 --> 2:18:30.200 big dick. I'm gonna take a shit and you're gonna 2:18:30.240 --> 2:18:32.800 listen to me guy, Like he gave no fox and 2:18:32.879 --> 2:18:33.959 threw down with everybody. 2:18:34.240 --> 2:18:35.760 You know what I think it is, Dave. 2:18:36.440 --> 2:18:38.840 I think for all of his many many mini flaws 2:18:38.879 --> 2:18:42.400 and evil acts committed, I think LBJ believed in things yeah, 2:18:42.560 --> 2:18:44.119 and Nixon and kissing you downk. 2:18:44.160 --> 2:18:51.680 He wouldn't throw down, but he would throw to ads. Yeah, 2:18:51.680 --> 2:18:51.960 I would. 2:18:52.040 --> 2:18:54.720 Because you know, LBJ was famous for whipping his dick, 2:18:54.760 --> 2:18:57.000 which he called jumbo, out at all times. He wants 2:18:57.040 --> 2:18:59.440 pissed on a Secret Service agent at a party because 2:18:59.440 --> 2:19:01.640 he couldn't get to the bathroom easily enough. 2:19:02.680 --> 2:19:03.800 Like that's the secret. 2:19:04.280 --> 2:19:06.960 Yeah, all of our sponsors are the same, and that 2:19:07.840 --> 2:19:10.120 their dicks are called jumbo and they do piss on 2:19:10.160 --> 2:19:13.040 the Secret Service. Every one of our sponsors pisses on 2:19:13.240 --> 2:19:14.840 the Secret Service. That's a promise. 2:19:15.440 --> 2:19:25.080 So we're back. Oh, boy, good times. 2:19:26.560 --> 2:19:29.400 So South Vietnam pulls out of the negotiations, right, I 2:19:29.440 --> 2:19:32.280 think they're happening in Paris, and I'm being I haven't 2:19:32.280 --> 2:19:34.000 really gotten to detail about what happened up to this 2:19:34.080 --> 2:19:36.560 point because those details are very obscure to the American people. 2:19:36.600 --> 2:19:40.119 What is publicly possible, like known, is that noth Vietnam 2:19:40.160 --> 2:19:41.680 and South Vietnam are supposed to come to the table 2:19:41.720 --> 2:19:43.480 have this big negotiation to try to come to like 2:19:43.600 --> 2:19:46.280 some way in which the war can come to an end, 2:19:46.800 --> 2:19:49.760 and South Vietnam, after a bunch of like throwing a 2:19:49.800 --> 2:19:52.720 bunch of like wrenches in the process, finally just backs 2:19:52.760 --> 2:19:55.440 out entirely, right, and so the negotiations don't happen, and 2:19:55.480 --> 2:19:58.240 the war continues. That's what everybody sees, you know, if 2:19:58.280 --> 2:20:00.440 you're just like a dude paying attention on the news, 2:20:00.480 --> 2:20:04.360 that's what you're aware of happening here. Lbj's administration knows 2:20:04.400 --> 2:20:06.320 something sketchy is going on between Nixon and the South 2:20:06.400 --> 2:20:08.640 Vietnamese government, but even for them, they don't know precisely 2:20:08.720 --> 2:20:12.160 what happened. Here's what happened. As part of the negotiations, 2:20:12.360 --> 2:20:15.600 LBJ offered the North Vietnamese a bombing halt. Now you 2:20:15.600 --> 2:20:18.080 can see why this is very enticing for Hanoi, right, 2:20:18.160 --> 2:20:20.360 because being bombed is not pleasant, and the US was 2:20:20.400 --> 2:20:22.800 doing a lot of it. So this is like what 2:20:23.000 --> 2:20:26.040 Lbj's like, Hey, I will fucking stop bombing Vietnam if 2:20:26.040 --> 2:20:27.680 you guys will come to the table and talk about 2:20:27.680 --> 2:20:30.800 stuff and the North Vietnamese government not being made entirely 2:20:30.879 --> 2:20:33.520 of soulis cockroaches is like, well, okay, Like that's a 2:20:33.560 --> 2:20:34.280 pretty good offer. 2:20:34.400 --> 2:20:36.640 Actually, yeah, we were bombings. 2:20:36.680 --> 2:20:38.720 Are we actually dropped John McCain. 2:20:39.200 --> 2:20:41.800 Yeah, we did drop John McCain. You guys might have 2:20:41.840 --> 2:20:44.840 caught him. Can keep him for a while. He'll come 2:20:44.879 --> 2:20:49.720 back into the picture. It'll be a big problem. He'll also, 2:20:49.800 --> 2:20:53.080 weirdly enough, be the least objectionable Republican elected leader for 2:20:53.160 --> 2:20:53.760 a long time. 2:20:54.120 --> 2:20:58.480 So it's just you guys know, that's our future hero. 2:20:59.320 --> 2:21:02.520 Yeah, and Jesse the Body Ventura will be the only 2:21:02.680 --> 2:21:04.520 conservative voices against torture. 2:21:04.760 --> 2:21:06.000 So heads up. 2:21:09.160 --> 2:21:12.080 It is amazing watching that old clip of Jesse Ventura 2:21:12.200 --> 2:21:15.600 on the view being the most reasonable American in fucking 2:21:15.680 --> 2:21:19.480 early two thousands next to Gilbert Godfried. At least. 2:21:21.040 --> 2:21:22.640 It's actually not the Gilbert. 2:21:27.160 --> 2:21:30.160 So Yeah, this is very enticing offer for Hanoi, the 2:21:30.200 --> 2:21:32.320 bombing cessation, and it's good enough if like, if you 2:21:32.320 --> 2:21:34.760 won't bomb us anymore, Yeah, maybe we can concede on 2:21:34.879 --> 2:21:37.280 some stuff if you're not murdering people in mass like, Yeah, 2:21:37.360 --> 2:21:38.720 of course we'll negotiate with that. 2:21:38.760 --> 2:21:39.360 That's pretty good. 2:21:39.879 --> 2:21:42.480 Nixon cannot let this happen. This would be a disaster. 2:21:43.320 --> 2:21:45.840 Vietnam not getting bombed, he sees is like the worst 2:21:45.920 --> 2:21:48.720 case scenario, even though he is campaigning on ending the war. 2:21:48.840 --> 2:21:51.680 By the way, that's promise, I'm gonna get us out 2:21:51.680 --> 2:21:53.800 of that. But yeah, on my watch, it happens before 2:21:53.840 --> 2:21:56.360 what am I campaigning on. So Nixon uses his back 2:21:56.440 --> 2:21:58.720 channel to the South Vietnamese government to get them to torpedo. 2:21:58.760 --> 2:22:00.959 They're end of the negotiations because the government of South 2:22:01.040 --> 2:22:03.480 Vietnam is frightened obviously that the US is going to 2:22:03.480 --> 2:22:07.160 stop bombing North Vietnam. So if you're following along, something 2:22:07.160 --> 2:22:09.880 should be obvious at this point. Since the Johnson administration 2:22:10.040 --> 2:22:13.360 was negotiating secretly with North Vietnam, there should have been 2:22:13.400 --> 2:22:15.520 no way for the government in Saigon to know that 2:22:15.720 --> 2:22:19.120 LBJ had proposed a bombing halt. But obviously Sigon knew, 2:22:19.320 --> 2:22:21.800 which means there was a secret informant within the Johnson 2:22:21.840 --> 2:22:25.600 administration passing information to the Nixon administration and sharing a 2:22:25.640 --> 2:22:28.520 lot of top secret data with Saigon. So the big 2:22:28.640 --> 2:22:33.120 question is who possibly be so deep into both camps 2:22:33.440 --> 2:22:36.840 that he could feed information from one to the forest. 2:22:40.280 --> 2:22:45.800 Oh, oh my god, that's right, baby, should be executed 2:22:45.879 --> 2:22:46.520 for treason. 2:22:47.040 --> 2:22:52.720 Absolutely should be executed for treesa my god. Slowly, yeah, 2:22:53.120 --> 2:22:57.360 slowly executed. Yeah, it should be that incompetent dude who 2:22:57.440 --> 2:22:59.960 hung the Nazis at Nuremberg and like kept sucking up 2:23:00.080 --> 2:23:00.879 and making it worse. 2:23:01.000 --> 2:23:03.000 Bring that dude badry, Can I just do? Let me 2:23:03.080 --> 2:23:04.680 try one more time before you guys get mad. 2:23:04.920 --> 2:23:07.879 We should have frozen that motherfucker in carbonite to break 2:23:07.920 --> 2:23:09.360 out when the nation needed him. 2:23:09.560 --> 2:23:14.520 Yeah, that's amazing. Oh you guys waking be up to 2:23:14.600 --> 2:23:18.200 kill me. No, we actually we're huge drunk and do 2:23:18.320 --> 2:23:21.120 another hangar huge fans. We've got you a handle of 2:23:21.160 --> 2:23:27.040 gin here, and this is very kissinger. Shut up, just 2:23:27.200 --> 2:23:30.200 do whatever. You just kill him as fast as you can. 2:23:30.560 --> 2:23:32.880 That's the only note. But I took a lot of 2:23:32.959 --> 2:23:35.440 notes from him back in the day, like he's great, 2:23:35.600 --> 2:23:36.080 he's great. 2:23:36.280 --> 2:23:36.800 Just kill him. 2:23:37.720 --> 2:23:40.760 Okay, I don't think he could die, though, I will 2:23:40.800 --> 2:23:42.600 say I don't think that guy could read. 2:23:47.560 --> 2:23:47.600 So. 2:23:47.720 --> 2:23:51.520 Obviously, Kissinger is the back channel who was spreading this information. 2:23:51.840 --> 2:23:55.080 Now in his own memoirs, Nixon later admitted to hearing 2:23:55.120 --> 2:23:57.240 about the proposed bombing Hall through what he termed as 2:23:57.240 --> 2:24:01.600 a highly unusual channel. Christopher Hitchen continues, it was more 2:24:01.680 --> 2:24:05.080 unusual even than he acknowledged. Kissinger had until then been 2:24:05.120 --> 2:24:09.200 a devoted partisan of Nelson Rockefeller, the matchlessly wealthy prince 2:24:09.240 --> 2:24:12.560 of Liberal Republicanism. His contempt for the person and policies 2:24:12.560 --> 2:24:16.840 of Richard Nixon was undisguised. Indeed, President Johnson's Paris negotiators, 2:24:16.920 --> 2:24:19.720 led by Avril Harriman, considered Kissinger to be almost one 2:24:19.760 --> 2:24:22.920 of themselves. He had made himself helpful as Rockefeller's cheap 2:24:23.000 --> 2:24:26.760 foreign policy advisor by supplying French intermediaries with their own 2:24:26.840 --> 2:24:29.680 contacts in Hanoi. Henry was the only person outside of 2:24:29.720 --> 2:24:32.400 the government that we were authorized to discuss the negotiations with, 2:24:32.600 --> 2:24:35.840 says Richard Holbrook. We trusted him. It is not stretching 2:24:35.920 --> 2:24:38.120 the truth to say that the Nixon campaign had a 2:24:38.160 --> 2:24:41.840 secret source within the US negotiating team, So the likelihood 2:24:41.840 --> 2:24:43.920 of a bombing halt, wrote Nixon, came as no real 2:24:43.959 --> 2:24:46.680 surprise to me. He added, I told Haldeman that Mitchell 2:24:46.720 --> 2:24:49.720 should stay a continuous liaison with Kissinger and that we 2:24:49.760 --> 2:24:52.760 should honor his desire to keep his role completely confidential. 2:24:52.920 --> 2:24:54.120 So this is all in the open now. 2:24:54.400 --> 2:24:54.600 Yeah. 2:24:54.959 --> 2:24:57.440 I also, I mean Nixon really just never shut the 2:24:57.520 --> 2:25:00.720 fuck up. I mean he didn't. He really he was 2:25:00.840 --> 2:25:02.880 like the drunk guy at a party who had just 2:25:03.000 --> 2:25:03.920 sort of tell you whatever. 2:25:04.160 --> 2:25:06.400 Like honestly, he's the guy Donald Trump might put a 2:25:06.440 --> 2:25:07.879 hand on be like, hey man, you're. 2:25:07.840 --> 2:25:11.080 Saying you shouldn't you say some stuff that you probably 2:25:11.120 --> 2:25:14.360 shouldn't right now. I think you might not. I think 2:25:14.400 --> 2:25:16.440 you might regret this. Sxplode. I just take a lot 2:25:16.440 --> 2:25:19.440 of stuff you probably shouldn't. And I'm on Twitter. Yeah, 2:25:21.000 --> 2:25:23.800 so that is just so crazy and just says it all, 2:25:24.120 --> 2:25:27.920 you know, And this is and it's gotten worse. I mean, 2:25:28.080 --> 2:25:30.040 it's just fucking bonkers. Now. 2:25:30.200 --> 2:25:32.520 The bombing halt was planned for October twenty third, but 2:25:32.600 --> 2:25:34.959 thanks to Kissinger, the Nixon campaign was able to lobby 2:25:35.040 --> 2:25:38.039 South Vietnam to increase their demands suddenly at the bargaining table, 2:25:38.080 --> 2:25:41.120 which wrecked attempted agreements being made with North Vietnam. This, 2:25:41.360 --> 2:25:43.200 you know, there's a process. This happens back and forth 2:25:43.280 --> 2:25:46.240 until the bombing halt is completely scuttled and peace negotiations 2:25:46.280 --> 2:25:49.240 fall apart. Since all this was happening behind closed doors, 2:25:49.560 --> 2:25:52.000 Humphrey never got to present the possibility of a bombing 2:25:52.040 --> 2:25:55.000 halt to the American people. Nixon avoided having to take 2:25:55.000 --> 2:25:57.320 into stance of any kind on the issue because obviously, 2:25:57.360 --> 2:25:59.720 as the peace candidate, he couldn't say you shouldn't do it, right. 2:26:00.080 --> 2:26:01.440 He didn't even want it to come up at all. 2:26:02.320 --> 2:26:05.320 The Johnson administration made one final attempt to push through 2:26:05.360 --> 2:26:07.320 a bombing halt at the end of October, but the 2:26:07.400 --> 2:26:11.160 South Vietnamese government, warned by Kissinger via Nixon, preempted this 2:26:11.320 --> 2:26:14.880 with a surprise boycott of the peace talks. Now, while 2:26:14.879 --> 2:26:17.720 all this is happening, Kissinger is also advising the Humphrey 2:26:17.800 --> 2:26:21.320 campaign and is so respected there that he was considered 2:26:21.360 --> 2:26:23.360 a shoe in for a senior job if they'd managed 2:26:23.400 --> 2:26:23.640 to win. 2:26:23.879 --> 2:26:24.600 There's three of them. 2:26:24.640 --> 2:26:29.199 Sucking Democrats are so fucking stupid, I know, right. 2:26:29.200 --> 2:26:32.440 There's three of them. There's three kiss olers. No, just 2:26:33.360 --> 2:26:36.280 are you walking around buddy Henry's I'm gonna give him 2:26:36.280 --> 2:26:39.840 a good old job. That's our body. You're talking about men, sir. 2:26:41.640 --> 2:26:43.280 And then I can never get over the fact that 2:26:43.440 --> 2:26:46.000 Hilary walked around with him during the fucking campaign. 2:26:46.200 --> 2:26:52.080 It's amazing, really walking to be fair day he fucking is. 2:26:52.320 --> 2:26:54.320 He's like one of those episodes of Fraser where he's 2:26:54.400 --> 2:26:56.280 dating two women at the same time and trying to 2:26:56.360 --> 2:27:00.800 keep it secret. That's the same restaurant Jack Tripper. Yeah, 2:27:04.280 --> 2:27:06.119 it's very funny, except for all. 2:27:06.080 --> 2:27:08.840 Of the millions and millions. Yes, let me ask you that. 2:27:09.120 --> 2:27:12.560 So do you have the numbers on where the deaths 2:27:12.600 --> 2:27:13.600 were at in Vietnam? 2:27:15.560 --> 2:27:18.320 I'll yeah, I'll get you that in a minute. 2:27:18.520 --> 2:27:20.440 Why did I ask? Yeah? 2:27:20.760 --> 2:27:24.320 Nixon by also like grows convinced of Kissinger's value during 2:27:24.360 --> 2:27:26.119 this period of time too, and he becomes a shoe 2:27:26.200 --> 2:27:28.560 in for a senior job there. He was particularly impressed 2:27:28.600 --> 2:27:31.400 by the skill with which Kissinger protected his identity as 2:27:31.440 --> 2:27:34.680 the leaker from the Humphrey campaign. Nixon later wrote, one 2:27:34.760 --> 2:27:37.600 factor that had almost convinced me of Kissinger's credibility was 2:27:37.640 --> 2:27:39.960 the link to which he went to protect his secrecy. 2:27:40.600 --> 2:27:43.480 What a terrible I mean, that's just not a good 2:27:43.520 --> 2:27:48.440 personality trait. It's really not it's actually not is but 2:27:48.680 --> 2:27:49.440 not this guy. 2:27:49.680 --> 2:27:53.160 This guy is the best double agent. He's so fucking great, he'll. 2:27:53.040 --> 2:27:56.160 Fuck And this guy's an unbelievable ship bag liar. 2:27:56.840 --> 2:28:02.920 Yeah, I mean, honestly, it makes sense that like Nixon 2:28:03.000 --> 2:28:05.440 would be super into that. Oh yeah, wow, this guy's 2:28:05.480 --> 2:28:06.520 a real piece of shit. 2:28:06.600 --> 2:28:10.120 Oh I'm Jick Nixon. This guy can lie to you. 2:28:11.640 --> 2:28:13.600 Let me tell you as a liar. 2:28:19.440 --> 2:28:22.600 Oh fuck, it's fucking amazing. 2:28:22.720 --> 2:28:23.199 It's bad. 2:28:24.440 --> 2:28:27.080 Clark Clifford, who would later was again the Secretary of 2:28:27.080 --> 2:28:28.560 Defense at the time, would later blame the fact that 2:28:28.640 --> 2:28:30.720 the war did not end in nineteen sixty eight and 2:28:30.800 --> 2:28:33.120 the loss of the Humphrey campaign in that election, on 2:28:33.240 --> 2:28:36.520 the school duggery of the Nixon campaign, which was orchestrated 2:28:36.560 --> 2:28:38.000 in part by Henry Kissinger. 2:28:38.280 --> 2:28:38.560 Quote. 2:28:39.000 --> 2:28:41.120 The activities of the Nixon team went far beyond the 2:28:41.160 --> 2:28:44.840 bounds of justifiable political combat. It constituted direct interference in 2:28:44.879 --> 2:28:47.400 the activities of the executive branch and the responsibilities of 2:28:47.440 --> 2:28:50.720 the chief executive. The only people with authority to negotiate 2:28:50.800 --> 2:28:52.920 on behalf of the nation. The activities of the Nix 2:28:53.120 --> 2:28:56.440 campaign constituted a gross, even potentially illegal interference in the 2:28:56.480 --> 2:29:00.280 security affairs of the nation by private individuals, which is 2:29:00.400 --> 2:29:02.880 the polite political walk way of saying it. In the 2:29:02.920 --> 2:29:06.360 book Kissinger's shadow, Greg Grandon, is even more pointed the 2:29:06.440 --> 2:29:09.400 fact that Kissinger participated in an intrigue that extended the 2:29:09.440 --> 2:29:12.360 war for five pointless years seven if you count the 2:29:12.400 --> 2:29:15.120 fighting between the nineteen seventy three Paris Piece Accords in 2:29:15.160 --> 2:29:18.879 the nineteen seventy five Fall of Psygone is undeniable. Adding 2:29:18.920 --> 2:29:21.320 to the evidence is Kissinger himself. He's been caught on 2:29:21.400 --> 2:29:24.800 tape twice on recordings recently released admitting he passed on 2:29:24.959 --> 2:29:26.400 useful information to Nixon. 2:29:26.959 --> 2:29:31.400 Jesus Christ, my god. It's like killing him isn't enough. 2:29:32.120 --> 2:29:33.720 No, he should be gibbeted. 2:29:34.040 --> 2:29:36.040 I said, so, we need to bring back Gibbeting and 2:29:36.160 --> 2:29:40.600 just hang that motherfucker somewhere in a nice cage box, like, yeah, 2:29:40.760 --> 2:29:41.560 leave him out there. 2:29:41.560 --> 2:29:43.600 Leave him out, Let people pelt him with stuff. 2:29:43.720 --> 2:29:49.360 Yeah, fuck, kill him by throwing potatoes at it, right, 2:29:49.440 --> 2:29:51.560 because he's not that strong anymore. And you want it 2:29:51.640 --> 2:29:53.440 to last a while, tatoes. Yeah. 2:29:54.240 --> 2:29:57.600 Yeah, So we'll talk a bit later about how he 2:29:57.680 --> 2:29:59.520 got caught on tape and why we know about all 2:29:59.560 --> 2:30:02.240 of this, because that's a fun story, guys. It involves 2:30:02.240 --> 2:30:05.440 a different series of crimes. But Grandon makes another point 2:30:05.480 --> 2:30:09.359 that's worth acknowledging here. Well, Kissinger definitely had inside information 2:30:09.440 --> 2:30:12.039 from the Johnson campaign, which he passed on. He also 2:30:12.160 --> 2:30:14.720 didn't have as much information as he pretended to know 2:30:14.879 --> 2:30:16.520 when he talked to the Nixon campaign. 2:30:16.560 --> 2:30:17.680 Oh Jesus quote. 2:30:18.280 --> 2:30:21.200 Even with access to Johnson's negotiating instructions, he couldn't have 2:30:21.240 --> 2:30:23.520 had exact information about the decisions being made at the 2:30:23.560 --> 2:30:25.640 White House. He had to have been winging it, at 2:30:25.720 --> 2:30:28.960 least to some degree, guessing at what others knew, imagining 2:30:29.000 --> 2:30:31.080 what others would do with that, guess playing the angle, 2:30:31.200 --> 2:30:33.600 sussing out the chance a well, giving the appearance of 2:30:33.640 --> 2:30:36.040 composure and certainty, he was right winging it. 2:30:36.600 --> 2:30:44.000 I mean, yeah, what an absolute fucking psychopath on Like, 2:30:44.080 --> 2:30:46.280 that's the kind of shit. Like you said, if you're 2:30:46.360 --> 2:30:49.320 dating two women, you're trying to figure it out and 2:30:49.440 --> 2:30:52.360 get through some sticky situation. But he's doing this with 2:30:52.600 --> 2:30:56.200 fucking Vietnam and two presidential campaigns. 2:30:56.280 --> 2:31:01.720 I don't, yeah, craziness, the absolute lack of a soul 2:31:02.240 --> 2:31:06.840 is oh yeah, he is pure blackness inside. 2:31:07.280 --> 2:31:18.680 M Yeah, Dave, let me push back for a second. God, wow, yeah, 2:31:19.240 --> 2:31:22.280 you can't. I mean, it's it's it's hard to even 2:31:22.320 --> 2:31:26.600 speak to it because it's like to look, I'll kill 2:31:26.680 --> 2:31:30.040 five people for a job, but at some point you 2:31:30.200 --> 2:31:30.520 have to. 2:31:30.640 --> 2:31:32.840 Be a normal share Yeah that's regular. 2:31:33.520 --> 2:31:36.920 Yeah, but but to to let, I mean, to just 2:31:37.520 --> 2:31:40.480 I don't know, it's it is he killed, he killed. 2:31:40.959 --> 2:31:43.920 I mean, how many Vietnamese died after that? 2:31:44.160 --> 2:31:45.280 Like so many? 2:31:45.959 --> 2:31:48.800 Yeah, we're talking, you know, was it like a million 2:31:48.879 --> 2:31:49.879 died in the whole wars? 2:31:50.080 --> 2:31:51.360 More than no? 2:31:51.640 --> 2:31:53.720 I mean it is because you also have to include 2:31:53.720 --> 2:31:58.080 the people who died in cam Radia and and in 2:31:58.320 --> 2:32:00.920 in Vietnam. We're gonna get into more of the episode three, 2:32:01.600 --> 2:32:06.240 but conservatively an additional couple of million deaths as a 2:32:06.280 --> 2:32:09.200 result of this, in addition to an additional twenty thousand 2:32:09.320 --> 2:32:11.840 US dead. It's kind of hard the death toll to 2:32:11.879 --> 2:32:14.760 get precisely like a couple million, like in the million, 2:32:14.879 --> 2:32:18.800 A couple of additional dead because this day by the 2:32:18.840 --> 2:32:20.240 way because I was just going. 2:32:20.160 --> 2:32:24.880 To say die because he wanted a job. 2:32:25.840 --> 2:32:29.520 This was he wanted a He's essentially lying in a 2:32:29.680 --> 2:32:32.840 job interview like you would if you were I had 2:32:32.920 --> 2:32:37.160 no fast food experience in where taco except millions of 2:32:37.280 --> 2:32:38.119 people are dying. 2:32:38.680 --> 2:32:45.960 Yeah, it's awesome, holy crazy, it's the crazy. 2:32:46.440 --> 2:32:49.800 The thing you've done here is you've you've you've humanized 2:32:49.879 --> 2:32:55.680 the situation for me, because, like, I can understand that 2:32:56.080 --> 2:32:58.160 there's evil people out there and they do stuff like 2:32:58.320 --> 2:33:00.960 they want to bomb Camp Cambodia, they want to do 2:33:01.040 --> 2:33:04.080 this other stuff. But when you take it to a 2:33:04.240 --> 2:33:07.560 level where it's a guy winging it in a meeting, 2:33:07.959 --> 2:33:10.720 it takes on a whole different flavor of evil. That 2:33:11.080 --> 2:33:13.160 is something because now that's something we can all understand. 2:33:13.200 --> 2:33:15.280 We've all been a situation where like ah, yeah, this 2:33:15.440 --> 2:33:18.400 guy did a thing, and then I did a thing, 2:33:18.480 --> 2:33:20.360 and you're just trying to get through a situation. 2:33:20.600 --> 2:33:21.960 Yeah, we've all experienced that. 2:33:22.440 --> 2:33:25.120 None of us have experienced given the green light to 2:33:25.400 --> 2:33:29.440 you know, dropping bombs and killing people. But that I 2:33:29.600 --> 2:33:32.360 get and I feel in my bones of like, well, 2:33:32.400 --> 2:33:34.680 holy shit, but you're doing that with millions of people's 2:33:34.720 --> 2:33:35.480 lives on the line. 2:33:35.800 --> 2:33:37.960 It is. It is this thing where the idea I 2:33:38.040 --> 2:33:39.960 had always had before I really got into was that like, 2:33:40.040 --> 2:33:41.440 well he did you know, he was involved in all 2:33:41.480 --> 2:33:43.160 of these horrible things that I knew who was involved in, 2:33:43.240 --> 2:33:45.800 but like I assumed it was from a wonky perspective 2:33:45.800 --> 2:33:48.080 of like he believed strongly in the need to fight 2:33:48.200 --> 2:33:50.880 these wars and that anything was justified, and so he 2:33:50.959 --> 2:33:52.960 did these horrible things because he believed we were in 2:33:53.000 --> 2:33:55.520 this like civilizational struggle and certain things were necessary in that. 2:33:55.560 --> 2:33:57.080 And like he had all of these different kind of 2:33:57.480 --> 2:33:59.920 very complex moral beliefs that he wrote dozens of books 2:34:00.000 --> 2:34:01.920 about explaining why he did the things. At the end 2:34:01.920 --> 2:34:03.440 of the day, no motherfucker wanted a gig. 2:34:03.720 --> 2:34:07.520 Yeah. And by the way, it's not like he would 2:34:07.560 --> 2:34:11.160 have been out of politics, like even in his downtime, 2:34:11.280 --> 2:34:14.200 he was like, you know, he was gigging. Like it's 2:34:14.360 --> 2:34:17.080 just like he would have been patiently waiting for another 2:34:17.160 --> 2:34:20.280 administration or have been working in whatever, like you know, 2:34:20.879 --> 2:34:22.960 he didn't. He didn't want to work at job. 2:34:23.320 --> 2:34:25.000 Yeah, he didn't want to work at Uncle Chuckle Fox. 2:34:25.120 --> 2:34:27.080 He wanted the gig at Charlie Good Nights like he 2:34:27.120 --> 2:34:28.520 doesn't want to work at a premier club. 2:34:30.240 --> 2:34:32.800 He literally like did the Like that's the thing. He 2:34:32.840 --> 2:34:34.160 didn't just do this for a job. He did this 2:34:34.280 --> 2:34:36.280 for like one of the two jobs and the one 2:34:36.360 --> 2:34:37.680 he kind of didn't want as much. 2:34:37.840 --> 2:34:38.040 Yeah. 2:34:38.360 --> 2:34:42.840 Yeah, yeah, the guy. Yeah, I'm un fucking conscionable. 2:34:43.160 --> 2:34:45.760 Yeah, it's really hard to like, it is hard and 2:34:45.920 --> 2:34:48.240 like it's I think it's easier to understand now what 2:34:48.400 --> 2:34:50.720 he did. It's hard to like judge him adequately in 2:34:50.800 --> 2:34:53.800 moral terms that are even like comprehensible because it's so 2:34:53.959 --> 2:34:54.360 much out. 2:34:54.560 --> 2:34:55.880 Yeah, it's hard to process. 2:34:56.520 --> 2:34:58.040 It really is one of those like say what you 2:34:58.080 --> 2:35:00.200 will about the tenets of nihilism, dude. At least it's 2:35:00.240 --> 2:35:02.400 an ethos moments where it's like I'm thinking about like 2:35:02.560 --> 2:35:05.320 people like fucking Saddam or whatever, where it's like, yeah, 2:35:05.360 --> 2:35:07.920 that was a piece of ship. There were definitely some 2:35:08.160 --> 2:35:11.800 things he believed though, like yeah, like there's pieces of 2:35:11.840 --> 2:35:15.120 shit out like fucking out there who like there are 2:35:15.320 --> 2:35:20.000 things they believe, and Kissinger just believes he should be 2:35:20.160 --> 2:35:20.800 close to power. 2:35:20.920 --> 2:35:24.280 Kissinger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was like doctrine was Kissinger. 2:35:24.440 --> 2:35:26.280 He's like, I'm really smart, I should be in the 2:35:26.520 --> 2:35:28.920 top game, and yeah, I just want to be there. 2:35:28.959 --> 2:35:31.240 It's awesome. Yeah. I like how he thinks his childhood 2:35:31.240 --> 2:35:37.520 didn't fuck with him. Yeah. Yeah, like dude, bro, yeah what. 2:35:38.000 --> 2:35:39.800 You know, it would be even better if he if 2:35:39.920 --> 2:35:41.640 all of this was happening, and it was just because, 2:35:41.680 --> 2:35:44.080 like he he was like, I know, I can get 2:35:44.120 --> 2:35:46.920 so many more chicks if I'm in the white House. Yeah, 2:35:47.120 --> 2:35:48.320 that was the whole reason for it. 2:35:48.400 --> 2:35:49.640 He's just like, I just want to get laid. 2:35:50.120 --> 2:35:51.920 Look, it is not a non factor. 2:35:52.879 --> 2:35:55.080 Wait is he Is he married right now? Or is 2:35:55.120 --> 2:35:56.240 he single? Oh? 2:35:56.560 --> 2:35:59.720 Lord, who knows? He's I mean I think he gets married. 2:35:59.760 --> 2:36:02.200 It's point. But he's also like, you know, well, I 2:36:02.240 --> 2:36:04.160 don't know. Actually, he's kind of like a bachelor dude. 2:36:04.320 --> 2:36:06.600 We'll talk about that later. I'm still working on those 2:36:06.680 --> 2:36:09.959 episodes because there's a whole thing to be said about 2:36:10.040 --> 2:36:15.240 Kissinger and women and sex appeal. He gets he was married, Well, yeah, 2:36:15.280 --> 2:36:17.440 he definitely was married at points, but he's also like 2:36:17.640 --> 2:36:18.480 kind of a playboy. 2:36:19.520 --> 2:36:19.680 God. 2:36:19.760 --> 2:36:21.440 I'm going to go back in time a little bit 2:36:21.480 --> 2:36:22.120 and talk about some. 2:36:22.160 --> 2:36:22.680 Of that later. 2:36:23.160 --> 2:36:26.080 He was married his first His first marriage was nineteen 2:36:26.280 --> 2:36:29.440 forty nine to nineteen sixty four, so I don't think 2:36:29.520 --> 2:36:32.440 he's and that he's not remarried again until seventy four, 2:36:32.560 --> 2:36:35.360 So that sounds right. He's married in this little hall. 2:36:35.440 --> 2:36:37.160 Yeah, I wonder why she left him. 2:36:37.400 --> 2:36:40.879 Yeah, no idea. 2:36:41.120 --> 2:36:43.680 So he's the only guy who comes black. 2:36:44.480 --> 2:36:46.600 I haven't written the episode yet, but I have several 2:36:46.640 --> 2:36:49.320 pages of people talking about Henry Kissinger's sex appeal on 2:36:49.400 --> 2:36:52.840 the news that are real, real black pilling as the 2:36:52.920 --> 2:37:01.400 kids saying, oh my god, not good. Oh. Nixon wins 2:37:01.560 --> 2:37:04.320 the sixty eight election. Obviously, he gets inaugurated in nineteen 2:37:04.360 --> 2:37:07.440 sixty nine. The Vietnam War continues on for half a 2:37:07.680 --> 2:37:12.280 decade ish. This was an almost incalculable humanitarian tragedy as 2:37:12.320 --> 2:37:14.720 well as disastrous for the future stability and cohesion of 2:37:14.720 --> 2:37:16.600 the United States. But it was dope as hell for 2:37:16.640 --> 2:37:18.760 Henry Kissinger, who was swiftly appointed Nixon. 2:37:18.920 --> 2:37:20.920 Yeah, like to put out there that my uncle went 2:37:20.959 --> 2:37:23.160 to Vietnam and nutally, you know, he had to kill 2:37:23.160 --> 2:37:24.680 a lot of people and until he fucking runed his 2:37:24.760 --> 2:37:26.200 life and he watched Fastey and stuff. 2:37:26.240 --> 2:37:28.560 So thank you, Richard Nixon. Thank you Richard Nixon. 2:37:29.640 --> 2:37:32.879 Everybody who went to Vietnam after sixty eight, say thank 2:37:32.959 --> 2:37:37.040 you to Richard for Nixon and Kissinger for you know, 2:37:37.560 --> 2:37:39.800 all of the trauma and the trauma that in some 2:37:39.959 --> 2:37:42.320 cases some of you passed on to your family members, 2:37:43.600 --> 2:37:46.120 and the trauma that has been passed on societally based 2:37:46.160 --> 2:37:48.520 on our attitudes towards war because of how Vietnam went 2:37:48.640 --> 2:37:50.400 and the ways in which some people were always looking 2:37:50.440 --> 2:37:52.160 for a rematch, and it got us into other you know, 2:37:52.480 --> 2:37:55.720 thank you, thank you, thank you, Yeah, thank you stuff, 2:37:56.280 --> 2:37:59.600 good stuff. Imagine if like that had been the end 2:37:59.600 --> 2:38:03.240 of Vietnam, that like there was actually a president realized, 2:38:03.400 --> 2:38:05.480 you know, the foolishness of a conflict, and we went 2:38:05.520 --> 2:38:09.280 to the table and like negotiations were made and I. 2:38:09.320 --> 2:38:12.760 Don't think I don't think the first Iraquis happens, the 2:38:13.040 --> 2:38:14.480 evasion Panama doesn't happen. 2:38:14.680 --> 2:38:16.920 You would think that for how long Vietnam dragged on, 2:38:17.040 --> 2:38:20.120 that that would have actually been a lesson to not 2:38:20.440 --> 2:38:23.680 go into conflicts, you know, no aimless conflict. 2:38:23.720 --> 2:38:28.800 But no, I guess the problem is we're thinking there's 2:38:28.920 --> 2:38:30.119 people should learn lessons. 2:38:30.240 --> 2:38:34.400 Yeah, well that war is it anyway like a moral 2:38:34.560 --> 2:38:37.520 decision or like actually comes from a place of actual 2:38:38.120 --> 2:38:42.360 you know, savior mentality, anything like that. You know, Yeah, 2:38:42.920 --> 2:38:43.600 it's good stuff. 2:38:44.320 --> 2:38:48.200 Getting disappointment as National Security Advisor required a lot more 2:38:48.280 --> 2:38:52.200 politicking from Kissinger, including spreading rumors to Nixon before his 2:38:52.280 --> 2:38:55.360 inauguration that Johnson planned to either depose or kill the 2:38:55.400 --> 2:38:58.400 president of South Vietnam before he left office. Because you 2:38:58.520 --> 2:39:02.080 pushed this rumor to the pre intellect via regular bastards, 2:39:02.120 --> 2:39:06.440 pods side character and Rhodesia enthusiast enthusiast William F. Buckley, 2:39:07.320 --> 2:39:09.959 Buckley's middleman to lighten Nixon. 2:39:12.480 --> 2:39:15.160 Translator. Yeah, William F. 2:39:15.280 --> 2:39:19.400 Buckley, whose son went on to write, honestly a pretty 2:39:19.440 --> 2:39:23.680 fun book. But we don't need to think too much 2:39:23.720 --> 2:39:24.040 about that. 2:39:24.360 --> 2:39:24.640 Wow. 2:39:25.240 --> 2:39:29.760 Great Aaron Eckart performance in the movie. So Nixon appreciated 2:39:29.840 --> 2:39:32.760 Kissinger's hutzpa and connections enough that when he put him 2:39:32.760 --> 2:39:35.400 at the head of the National Security Council, he ordered 2:39:35.400 --> 2:39:38.040 the professor to reorganize it in order to take foreign 2:39:38.120 --> 2:39:42.160 policy control away from the State and Defense departments. This 2:39:42.360 --> 2:39:44.480 means that Nixon gave Kissinger it was very close to 2:39:44.560 --> 2:39:48.600 a blank check to take total control of US foreign policy. Obviously, 2:39:49.200 --> 2:39:51.680 Nixon wanted this because he was a paranoid control freak. 2:39:51.840 --> 2:39:53.920 He did not want any kind of separation of powers. 2:39:54.120 --> 2:39:56.120 He certainly did not want to have a Secretary of 2:39:56.200 --> 2:39:58.640 State who could like do things that Nixon might not 2:39:59.000 --> 2:40:01.680 be explicitly or uttering. But the result of this was 2:40:01.720 --> 2:40:04.280 that Kissinger found himself in a position where he could 2:40:04.360 --> 2:40:08.119 exercise near absolute power and foreign policy as long as 2:40:08.160 --> 2:40:12.520 the President kept liking him. Oh, now, Justice Kissinger had 2:40:12.560 --> 2:40:15.360 little love for Nixon. Our buddy Dick Millhouse was not 2:40:15.600 --> 2:40:17.880 particularly warm to his new right hand man. Now you 2:40:18.000 --> 2:40:21.680 had given a couple of spanky hank. Yeah, you want 2:40:21.680 --> 2:40:25.880 to notice real Kissinger was jew boy. Oh my god, 2:40:26.480 --> 2:40:31.720 Jesus Christ, it is Nixon. But it's like, I mean, 2:40:31.879 --> 2:40:33.560 I thought we would be jumping off of the name 2:40:33.600 --> 2:40:34.119 a little bit. 2:40:34.240 --> 2:40:37.039 He's just like, what am I gonna call you? Spanky Hank? 2:40:37.480 --> 2:40:41.959 No little jew boy lord. 2:40:42.560 --> 2:40:44.800 And again it says a lot about Henry Kissinger that 2:40:44.879 --> 2:40:46.160 he's like, yeah, right. 2:40:46.160 --> 2:40:54.800 That's pretty good, funny childhood have no effect on me today, 2:40:57.520 --> 2:40:58.800 not whats. 2:41:01.440 --> 2:41:03.039 So there must have been. 2:41:02.959 --> 2:41:07.440 An element of Nixon then who knew what an ass 2:41:07.520 --> 2:41:11.800 kissing little bitch he was. Oh, because he's belittling him 2:41:11.840 --> 2:41:15.039 to his face oh yeah, and knowing he'll stick around. 2:41:15.240 --> 2:41:17.680 It's why you get hired for these jobs because it's 2:41:17.840 --> 2:41:21.360 just like it's not, you know, an empty vacuum. Who 2:41:21.800 --> 2:41:23.800 is going to be your right hand man is still 2:41:24.360 --> 2:41:27.120 you know, there's security in that, there's there's secrecy in that. 2:41:27.400 --> 2:41:30.360 He's like a vacuum Gareth, and that he'll suck Nixon's dick. 2:41:30.440 --> 2:41:32.200 But he's also like a toilet, and that he'll take 2:41:32.560 --> 2:41:34.080 nixon ship. You know, that's. 2:41:35.680 --> 2:41:37.120 He's a dick. 2:41:37.240 --> 2:41:39.840 He's a human human human. 2:41:40.920 --> 2:41:44.200 Yeah, yeah, he's like the Toto toilet is pretty effective. 2:41:44.200 --> 2:41:48.680 But if you ever had a dick sucking toilet, shit 2:41:48.760 --> 2:41:52.760 don't come either way. I'm ready for it, baby, Henry Kissing. 2:41:52.959 --> 2:41:55.800 So can the title be Henry Kissinger dick sucking toilet? 2:41:58.920 --> 2:42:03.840 We got it, draws thinking of dick sucking toilets, It 2:42:03.959 --> 2:42:06.240 is time for a commercial break. 2:42:08.520 --> 2:42:14.760 That is who sponsors our podcast Raitheon's new dick sucking toilet. Well, 2:42:17.080 --> 2:42:18.920 it is going to fire a missile at a busload 2:42:18.959 --> 2:42:22.000 of children. But that's that's just the raytheon. You know, 2:42:22.160 --> 2:42:24.680 we can't avoid it. We'll be obligated. 2:42:25.560 --> 2:42:27.040 Yeah, it's how it works. 2:42:28.840 --> 2:42:33.200 So Nixon announced Kissinger's appointment as the National Security Advisor 2:42:33.440 --> 2:42:35.760 before he had even picked a Secretary of State, which 2:42:35.800 --> 2:42:38.960 is an unprecedented move. He announced Henry as quote, and 2:42:39.040 --> 2:42:41.640 this is again in his public announcement to the country 2:42:41.879 --> 2:42:44.280 as quote, a man who is known to all people 2:42:44.320 --> 2:42:46.760 who are interested in foreign policy, is perhaps one of 2:42:46.800 --> 2:42:49.800 the major scholars in America and the world in this area. 2:42:50.240 --> 2:42:52.680 And he acknowledged that while Kissinger had never held a 2:42:52.720 --> 2:42:56.080 full time government job before, he had Nixon's confidence to 2:42:56.160 --> 2:42:59.160 bring in a whole new foreign policy team quote, new 2:42:59.240 --> 2:43:02.720 men to develop new ideas. Now, the conservative media of 2:43:02.760 --> 2:43:06.320 the day immediately roared into gear, hailing Henry Kissinger as 2:43:06.320 --> 2:43:10.119 an unprecedented policy genius, the man necessary to get America 2:43:10.240 --> 2:43:12.840 back on track after nearly a decade of disastrous war 2:43:12.920 --> 2:43:14.199 under Democratic presidents. 2:43:14.520 --> 2:43:15.000 William F. 2:43:15.040 --> 2:43:18.640 Buckley wrote, not since Florence Nightingale has any public figure 2:43:18.680 --> 2:43:21.040 received such universal acclamation. 2:43:22.120 --> 2:43:33.279 Ruin her William F. Buckley fantastic. Yeah, it's amazing. 2:43:34.240 --> 2:43:38.279 But even ostensibly liberal figures were wooed by Kissinger's titanic 2:43:38.400 --> 2:43:42.199 intellect and Henry Kissinger and American power. Thomas Schwartz, writes. 2:43:42.720 --> 2:43:45.880 The liberal historian Arthur Slushinger Junior simply referred to it 2:43:45.920 --> 2:43:48.800 as the best appointment so far. The New York Times 2:43:48.879 --> 2:43:52.120 columnist Tom Wicker noted the collective sigh of relief that 2:43:52.200 --> 2:43:55.240 went up from the liberal Eastern establishment and the Ivy 2:43:55.360 --> 2:43:58.440 League fearing Nixon's cold warrior image, most shared in the 2:43:58.520 --> 2:44:03.320 sentiment of Kissinger's Harvard colleague Adam Yarmolinsky. We'll all sleep 2:44:03.360 --> 2:44:04.400 a little better each night. 2:44:04.520 --> 2:44:07.560 No, mean, Kissinger is down there, you mean, in the toilet, 2:44:07.600 --> 2:44:11.640 getting ready to suck that. You know, it's exactly what 2:44:11.760 --> 2:44:15.840 happened with Trump. Yes, And it's like it's the way 2:44:15.959 --> 2:44:20.480 that I mean again, it's people's natural reaction is normally 2:44:20.760 --> 2:44:24.400 kind of there. It's just this, the fears are assuaged 2:44:24.480 --> 2:44:28.879 by people who they consider to be, you know, the compass, 2:44:29.440 --> 2:44:32.600 and they're just not. And so when you're told that 2:44:32.720 --> 2:44:36.160 there are the good guys inside the bad camp, it's 2:44:36.240 --> 2:44:39.840 like it's just never fucking true. It is rot from 2:44:39.959 --> 2:44:41.440 the core. Yeah, and it is. 2:44:41.800 --> 2:44:44.640 These liberals are also are also impressed by him and 2:44:44.680 --> 2:44:46.920 so comforted by him because they think he's smart, because 2:44:46.920 --> 2:44:49.160 he's good at quoting smart dead people. Right. It is 2:44:49.240 --> 2:44:51.560 the same thing that happened with Mattis. Maddis, thankfully is 2:44:51.640 --> 2:44:54.680 not nearly as toxic a person as Henry Kissinger. But like, 2:44:54.959 --> 2:44:56.920 if you actually look at Madis's background, one of the 2:44:56.959 --> 2:44:58.800 things he did in the Iraq War was cover up 2:44:58.840 --> 2:45:01.480 a war crime. He's not a not a man to 2:45:01.560 --> 2:45:03.480 be like I mean, and he was. He was like 2:45:03.760 --> 2:45:06.120 he was very popular among like people who served under him, 2:45:06.120 --> 2:45:07.959 which is part of like why there was this kind 2:45:07.959 --> 2:45:10.040 of collective relief. But it's this idea that he's like 2:45:10.120 --> 2:45:12.920 the warrior monk, right. They love the idea that like, well, 2:45:13.200 --> 2:45:15.560 this guy who's president is a maniac, but this dude 2:45:15.640 --> 2:45:18.360 reads books that he hired so that it'll be okay, 2:45:18.480 --> 2:45:20.080 And it's never okay. 2:45:20.280 --> 2:45:24.680 You continue to lower the bar more and more. You're obvious, 2:45:24.760 --> 2:45:27.040 like the people that you're bringing back are part of 2:45:27.120 --> 2:45:30.440 a lower bar. But because the bar is even lower, 2:45:30.800 --> 2:45:33.280 it seems and feels a little higher. But it is 2:45:33.440 --> 2:45:33.959 all just. 2:45:35.440 --> 2:45:40.039 It's just this is exactly what happened with Colon Powell 2:45:40.840 --> 2:45:42.840 is sucking evil. 2:45:43.000 --> 2:45:47.640 We did the exactly evil Monsterson, Yeah, cover up fucking 2:45:48.080 --> 2:45:52.120 the massacres in fucking Vietnam. That's like when he started 2:45:52.160 --> 2:45:55.440 out like terrible human being. But the press did the 2:45:55.560 --> 2:45:56.119 same shit. 2:45:56.680 --> 2:46:00.520 If you can quote old books and smile and you're 2:46:00.560 --> 2:46:03.400 willing to give journalists time, they will talk about you 2:46:03.480 --> 2:46:06.920 as being the secret reasonable person within the war crimes party, 2:46:07.120 --> 2:46:08.640 you know, like that's all it takes. 2:46:10.120 --> 2:46:10.560 It's great. 2:46:10.920 --> 2:46:12.760 It's just the same thing as if you're a Nazi 2:46:12.840 --> 2:46:16.280 who reads books. You can get an archtyvee profile, yes 2:46:16.760 --> 2:46:20.560 or yeah, or you'll get on sixty minutes or whatever. 2:46:20.680 --> 2:46:20.880 You know. 2:46:22.560 --> 2:46:25.360 It's it's don't trust people who want you to think 2:46:25.400 --> 2:46:28.879 they're smart. Yep, that's never a good sign smart. It's 2:46:28.879 --> 2:46:30.320 the same thing. It's the same thing with like people 2:46:30.320 --> 2:46:32.480 who want you to believe they're dangerous. If they want 2:46:32.520 --> 2:46:35.280 you to believe something specific about them, they're lying about it. 2:46:35.400 --> 2:46:36.320 That's how people work. 2:46:36.400 --> 2:46:39.440 And and if if a doctor wants to get on 2:46:39.560 --> 2:46:42.160 the news to talk about COVID and be famous on 2:46:42.240 --> 2:46:44.959 the news, that's actually not a doctor you should listen. 2:46:44.800 --> 2:46:45.680 To and a great guy. 2:46:45.920 --> 2:46:45.960 No. 2:46:46.200 --> 2:46:48.880 Also, I mean it's you know, it's from the same 2:46:49.400 --> 2:46:54.240 publications and the same networks. The idea that you continue 2:46:54.320 --> 2:46:58.240 to listen to these sources about what is right and 2:46:58.360 --> 2:47:01.600 what is wrong just because they have fancy terms like 2:47:01.760 --> 2:47:05.640 senior policy advised. It's like it's all fucking it's it's 2:47:05.720 --> 2:47:10.080 days of our lives. It's they're actors. These are teleprompters. Yeah, 2:47:10.160 --> 2:47:12.320 and they don't know any more than you about anything 2:47:12.400 --> 2:47:12.920 that matters. 2:47:13.000 --> 2:47:15.119 As a general rule. Every now and then you get 2:47:15.160 --> 2:47:17.560 but like even like within agencies that are heavily like 2:47:17.680 --> 2:47:20.160 medical oriented, like the CDC, where you would expect them 2:47:20.200 --> 2:47:22.720 to have a lot of specialized knowledge, it doesn't necessarily 2:47:22.760 --> 2:47:23.840 mean they're going to do a good job. 2:47:24.320 --> 2:47:29.879 But I'll say that much times comfortably lied about Iraq. 2:47:30.879 --> 2:47:34.880 Yeah, it's it's not great. So during a transition from 2:47:34.920 --> 2:47:38.200 the Johnson to Nixon administration, US Military Command began to 2:47:38.280 --> 2:47:41.160 act under what General Creighton Abrams described as a total 2:47:41.240 --> 2:47:45.320 war mindset against the infrastructure of the Vietcong insurgency. This 2:47:45.480 --> 2:47:48.200 began with a six month operation to clear the Mekong Delta, 2:47:48.360 --> 2:47:51.600 code named Operation Speedy Express. This would prove to be 2:47:51.640 --> 2:47:55.039 the first major military operation that both Nixon and Kitschinger oversaw, 2:47:55.320 --> 2:47:57.960 and it was a titanic bloodlet bath. There is a 2:47:58.040 --> 2:48:00.960 good article on this operation in the Nation and the 2:48:01.160 --> 2:48:04.400 title of the article is A my lie A month. 2:48:04.720 --> 2:48:05.840 Oh my god. 2:48:06.320 --> 2:48:09.760 Yeah, so it's it's oh my god. 2:48:10.680 --> 2:48:12.880 Now the Myli massacre had occurred in nineteen sixty eight, 2:48:12.959 --> 2:48:14.960 before Nickson he Kissinger were in power. You know that 2:48:15.040 --> 2:48:17.200 ain't on them, and Seymour Hirst didn't like break the 2:48:17.240 --> 2:48:19.120 story until sixty nine, which is the year that they 2:48:19.160 --> 2:48:21.840 come to power. And this slaughter of five hundred civilians 2:48:21.879 --> 2:48:24.680 by US troops was horrific enough, but within a few 2:48:24.720 --> 2:48:28.280 months of taking power, speedy express it exceeded it many times. 2:48:28.680 --> 2:48:31.840 Quote from the Nation, an inkling that something terrible had 2:48:31.879 --> 2:48:33.920 taken place in the Mekong Delta appeared in a most 2:48:34.040 --> 2:48:38.000 unlikely source, a formerly confidential September nineteen sixty nine senior 2:48:38.080 --> 2:48:40.480 officer debriefing report by none other than the commander of 2:48:40.520 --> 2:48:43.800 the Ninth Division, then Major General Julian Ewell, who came 2:48:43.879 --> 2:48:46.200 to be known inside the military as the Butcher of 2:48:46.280 --> 2:48:49.280 the Delta because of a single minded fixation on body count. 2:48:49.640 --> 2:48:51.920 In reports, copies of which were sent to west Moreland's 2:48:51.959 --> 2:48:54.680 office and to other high ranking officials, you will candidly 2:48:54.760 --> 2:48:57.440 noted that while the Ninth Division stressed the discriminate and 2:48:57.520 --> 2:49:00.280 selective use of firepower in some areas of the day Delta, 2:49:00.520 --> 2:49:03.800 where this emphasis wasn't applied or wasn't feasible, the countryside 2:49:03.840 --> 2:49:06.959 looked like the Verdun battlefields, the site of a notoriously 2:49:07.040 --> 2:49:10.400 bloody World War One battle. That December, a document produced 2:49:10.400 --> 2:49:13.440 by the National Liberation Front sharpened the picture. It reported 2:49:13.480 --> 2:49:16.039 that between December first, nineteen sixty eight and April first, 2:49:16.120 --> 2:49:19.279 nineteen sixty nine, primarily in the Delta provinces of Kinhoua 2:49:19.400 --> 2:49:22.520 and Din Twog, the Ninth Division launched an express raid 2:49:22.640 --> 2:49:26.120 and mopped up many areas, slaughtering three thousand people, mostly 2:49:26.240 --> 2:49:29.120 old folks, women and children, and destroying thousands of houses, 2:49:29.360 --> 2:49:31.959 hundreds of hectares of fields and orchards. But like most 2:49:32.080 --> 2:49:35.160 NLF reports of civilian atrocities, this one was almost certainly 2:49:35.200 --> 2:49:38.760 dismissed as propaganda by US officials. A United Press International 2:49:38.840 --> 2:49:41.760 report that same months month, in which US advisors charged 2:49:41.800 --> 2:49:43.560 the division with having driven up the body count by 2:49:43.600 --> 2:49:48.000 killing civilians with helicopter gunships and artillery, was also largely ignored. 2:49:49.160 --> 2:49:52.320 And it's because they're saying they're soldiers, that they're shooting 2:49:52.480 --> 2:49:53.400 from a distance. 2:49:53.280 --> 2:49:54.879 And then they justied. 2:49:54.920 --> 2:49:58.680 Colin Pale justified it by saying, while they're providing food 2:49:59.240 --> 2:50:01.240 for the enemy, so there's no difference. 2:50:01.959 --> 2:50:02.160 Yeah. 2:50:03.120 --> 2:50:05.560 By the time Speedy Express comes to an end, US 2:50:05.640 --> 2:50:08.400 forces had killed more than ten thousand people. The vast 2:50:08.480 --> 2:50:11.440 majority of these were claimed to have been insurgent fighters, 2:50:11.760 --> 2:50:14.440 but extensive mop up after operations after the fact found 2:50:14.520 --> 2:50:18.199 less than eight hundred weapons on all these bodies they shared. 2:50:18.320 --> 2:50:23.240 That is fucking crazy. Yeah, I mean, like we can't 2:50:23.280 --> 2:50:27.000 even frame them competently now. 2:50:27.720 --> 2:50:31.920 And also, remember you're taking guys that you drafted. 2:50:32.280 --> 2:50:35.280 Yeah yeah, right, yeah, right, you know to do this. Yeah, 2:50:35.560 --> 2:50:37.480 I mean, like you said with your uncle, I mean, 2:50:37.560 --> 2:50:41.160 it is it's like the generational ripple through that and 2:50:41.280 --> 2:50:46.160 the lifetime you know what it does really, I mean yeah, 2:50:47.000 --> 2:50:50.199 it's pretty beyond who dies, who doesn't live again? 2:50:50.800 --> 2:50:53.959 Yeah, yeah, exactly, And what you know, what do people 2:50:54.040 --> 2:50:57.080 take back with them now? It is fair and necessary 2:50:57.120 --> 2:50:58.960 to note that this began in the December before Nixon 2:50:59.000 --> 2:51:01.160 and Kissinger took office. This is not entirely on them. 2:51:01.200 --> 2:51:02.760 Some of the blame for this ghosts on the LBJA 2:51:02.879 --> 2:51:06.920 administration as well, obviously, but it continued under them. This paragraph, 2:51:06.920 --> 2:51:09.240 written by Christopher Hitchins, gives you some idea of the 2:51:09.320 --> 2:51:11.440 savagery of what occurred in the early days of the 2:51:11.520 --> 2:51:15.440 Nixon administration's control of the Vietnam War. The people who 2:51:15.480 --> 2:51:18.600 still live in pacified Kinhoa all have vivid recollections of 2:51:18.640 --> 2:51:21.320 the devastation that American firepower brought to their lives in 2:51:21.360 --> 2:51:24.320 early nineteen sixty nine. Virtually every person to whom I 2:51:24.400 --> 2:51:26.920 spoke had suffered in some way. There were five thousand 2:51:26.920 --> 2:51:29.120 people in our village before nineteen sixty nine, but there 2:51:29.160 --> 2:51:30.640 were none in nineteen seventy. 2:51:30.800 --> 2:51:32.000 One. Village elder told. 2:51:31.920 --> 2:51:35.160 Me the Americans destroyed every house with artillery airstrikes or 2:51:35.200 --> 2:51:37.920 by burning them down with cigarette lighters. About one hundred 2:51:37.920 --> 2:51:40.080 people were killed by bombing, others were wounded, and others 2:51:40.120 --> 2:51:43.400 became refugees. Many were children killed by concussion from the bombs, 2:51:43.400 --> 2:51:45.760 which their small bodies could not withstand, even if they 2:51:45.800 --> 2:51:52.440 were hiding underground. So Nixon's plan, at the beginning, you know, 2:51:52.600 --> 2:51:55.480 when his people had derailed the peace negotiations in sixty eight, 2:51:55.600 --> 2:51:58.119 was that he would win election and then make peace 2:51:58.200 --> 2:52:01.080 with Vietnam, right to do the thing that he promised 2:52:01.080 --> 2:52:03.280 to do. But it swiftly became clear that peace was 2:52:03.320 --> 2:52:05.600 a messy prospect. One of the things he's worried about 2:52:05.680 --> 2:52:08.039 is that, like, well, if we withdraw him with Vietnam, 2:52:08.560 --> 2:52:11.680 the Saigon government's probably going to fall, right because there 2:52:12.160 --> 2:52:16.640 we're just barely propping up this shitty dictatorship, and that'll 2:52:16.680 --> 2:52:19.320 be it will make me look weak, right, And so 2:52:19.400 --> 2:52:21.000 I can't do it because it'll make me look weak. 2:52:21.080 --> 2:52:21.240 Yeah. 2:52:21.240 --> 2:52:25.680 If you beer, that'll quit drink it. Yeah, And then 2:52:25.680 --> 2:52:28.840 I won't win reelection in nineteen seventy two. And that's unacceptable. 2:52:28.920 --> 2:52:31.800 I mean that, and that I mean obviously keeps going 2:52:32.440 --> 2:52:35.040 over and over again. It's you get into office and 2:52:35.080 --> 2:52:37.200 then you're like, well, what about re election instead of 2:52:37.280 --> 2:52:38.800 going like the best direction for. 2:52:39.480 --> 2:52:41.320 It is one of the few things I'll give Biden 2:52:41.440 --> 2:52:44.160 some credit for because he had the same calculus with Afghanistan. 2:52:44.240 --> 2:52:45.880 A lot of criticisms to make about the pull out 2:52:45.879 --> 2:52:48.400 from Afghanistan, but he did not make the same decision 2:52:48.440 --> 2:52:51.240 Nixon and Kissinger did. He did fucking get out. It 2:52:51.280 --> 2:52:55.920 wouldn't yeah, yeah, So withdrawing from Vietnam mean Saigon is 2:52:55.959 --> 2:52:57.640 going to fall. The government's going to fall, and that 2:52:57.680 --> 2:52:59.640 will be bad in the seventy two elections, and it 2:52:59.760 --> 2:53:02.360 might push Kissinger and Nixon out of power. Neither of 2:53:02.440 --> 2:53:04.720 them can accept this, and this description of a meeting 2:53:04.760 --> 2:53:08.080 from December nineteen seventy by H. R. Haldeman shows Kissinger's 2:53:08.160 --> 2:53:10.960 role in pulling back from peace. Kissinger came in and 2:53:11.000 --> 2:53:13.680 the discussion covered some of the general thinking about Vietnam 2:53:13.800 --> 2:53:16.440 and the president's big peace plan for the next year, 2:53:16.640 --> 2:53:19.520 with kissing, which Kissinger later told me he does not favor. 2:53:19.840 --> 2:53:21.640 He thinks that any pullout from next year would be 2:53:21.680 --> 2:53:24.000 a serious mistake because the adverse reaction to it could 2:53:24.080 --> 2:53:26.880 set in well before the seventy two elections. He favors 2:53:26.920 --> 2:53:29.240 instead of continued winding down and then a pull out 2:53:29.320 --> 2:53:31.320 right at the fall of seventy two, so that if 2:53:31.360 --> 2:53:33.360 any bad results follow, they will be too late to 2:53:33.440 --> 2:53:34.560 affect the election. 2:53:35.040 --> 2:53:35.240 Ah. 2:53:35.680 --> 2:53:41.120 Yeah, And it's you know, that's what our wars always are. 2:53:41.200 --> 2:53:44.240 They're all about Yeah, they're all about elections. They fucking 2:53:44.400 --> 2:53:50.400 always are. It's you know, I mean, yeah, this led 2:53:50.400 --> 2:53:53.160 to Republicans thinking that, you know, they had to get 2:53:53.240 --> 2:53:53.800 war back on. 2:53:53.879 --> 2:53:54.760 Track at some point. 2:53:54.959 --> 2:54:00.800 Yeah, But it's you know, it's always it's never never works, 2:54:00.959 --> 2:54:04.760 like it's just such a crazy idea. And you also 2:54:04.879 --> 2:54:07.400 like people are watching body bags go home, Like no 2:54:07.480 --> 2:54:09.160 one's happy about anything that's going on. 2:54:09.640 --> 2:54:13.240 No, and it this they just kind of I mean 2:54:13.320 --> 2:54:15.680 this part of why it keeps going is, yeah, this 2:54:15.840 --> 2:54:19.640 kind of craven knowledge that like, well, the worst thing 2:54:19.760 --> 2:54:21.520 that could happen is we don't get reelected. 2:54:21.879 --> 2:54:22.080 Yeah. 2:54:22.280 --> 2:54:24.000 At no point is he thinking about any of the 2:54:24.080 --> 2:54:27.440 human beings involved, even any of the American human beings involved. 2:54:27.520 --> 2:54:30.199 It's just like, well, we can't be losing reelection. 2:54:30.440 --> 2:54:33.560 You know, imagine if Kissinger was damaged from his childhood, 2:54:33.600 --> 2:54:38.280 how bad things would get. It could be really bad. 2:54:39.120 --> 2:54:41.800 It's like, you know, actually, when we talk about the 2:54:41.840 --> 2:54:45.080 story of like American presidents making craven political decisions, one 2:54:45.120 --> 2:54:48.320 of the reasons FDR did not approve more effort being 2:54:48.400 --> 2:54:51.000 taken to evacuate Jewish refugees from Germany as he did 2:54:51.080 --> 2:54:53.760 not want to be seen as pro jew Oh Jesus 2:54:53.840 --> 2:54:55.920 the socialist policies and stuff that we're going through. He 2:54:56.000 --> 2:54:57.879 knew that that could hurt him. There were a number 2:54:57.879 --> 2:54:59.760 of other reasons, but like, yeah, they're like they did 2:54:59.840 --> 2:55:02.400 not that is like there is there were things that 2:55:02.520 --> 2:55:05.560 were done that led to the US government saving fewer 2:55:05.640 --> 2:55:08.039 Jewish people from the Holocaust that were done for craven 2:55:08.120 --> 2:55:10.000 political reasons by the FDR administration. 2:55:10.160 --> 2:55:15.280 Let me hear this Kaiser pitch again. It actually big hat. 2:55:15.720 --> 2:55:19.080 I learn the hat, biggest hat you've ever seen, big, 2:55:19.280 --> 2:55:30.520 very spiky now loves this mom's hands. But oh god. 2:55:30.800 --> 2:55:34.040 So the fun thing about this episode is that everything 2:55:34.040 --> 2:55:35.600 we're going to talk about in part three is even 2:55:35.640 --> 2:55:37.600 worse because in part three we're going to talk about 2:55:37.640 --> 2:55:45.240 fucking Cambodia. Soo y well, you guys want to plug 2:55:45.240 --> 2:55:48.759 anything after my ears three hours. 2:55:48.800 --> 2:55:51.680 Yeah, I'm going to be I'm going to be in 2:55:51.840 --> 2:55:54.760 a toilet trying to get clean. 2:55:55.080 --> 2:55:58.360 After that, you can go to the Dollar Go to 2:55:58.440 --> 2:56:02.360 Dollar podcast dot com for two more information and my 2:56:02.520 --> 2:56:05.960 website Karen Reynolds dot com. I'm on tour, but not 2:56:06.200 --> 2:56:09.200 like tours of duty, just like stand up and podcast 2:56:09.320 --> 2:56:13.200 tours with the aim of bringing joint of people. I 2:56:13.240 --> 2:56:16.959 don't want to talk like that anymore. Dave, Dave, shit 2:56:17.000 --> 2:56:19.240 your fucking mouth and you can. 2:56:19.320 --> 2:56:21.240 Just listen to the last last time I saw you 2:56:21.320 --> 2:56:23.119 do a seay. You just fucking murdered the whole fucking 2:56:23.120 --> 2:56:23.600 shit your. 2:56:23.560 --> 2:56:27.920 Fucking face, like kill that crowd. 2:56:28.360 --> 2:56:33.039 You left unexploded ordnance in the crowded. 2:56:31.840 --> 2:56:34.200 Over should have been over fifteen minutes earlier. 2:56:36.800 --> 2:56:39.800 And like with unexploded ordinance in low forty percent of 2:56:39.840 --> 2:56:42.279 the people who loved your jokes after the set and we're. 2:56:42.200 --> 2:56:44.360 Children no more. 2:56:44.560 --> 2:56:50.359 There'll be no more relating. There'll be no more correlating. Yeah, anyway, 2:56:51.040 --> 2:56:53.520 that's part two. You got two more weeks of innardy kissing. 2:56:53.560 --> 2:56:55.840 You'r ahead of you, folks, to strap in gets a 2:56:55.920 --> 2:56:59.080 lot uglier. But also we'll be talking about his sex life. 2:56:59.120 --> 2:57:02.440 So you know, I was going to say something to 2:57:02.520 --> 2:57:04.360 look forward to, but like not really. 2:57:05.200 --> 2:57:08.720 Yeah, yeah, come back next week for more of the 2:57:08.800 --> 2:57:10.680 dick Sucking toilet Henry Kissinger. 2:57:12.640 --> 2:57:13.640 That's a pretty good title. 2:57:15.840 --> 2:57:16.960 Sophie's not happy with it. 2:57:17.040 --> 2:57:19.640 No, Sophie is not on board. I don't love it. 2:57:20.000 --> 2:57:32.440 But you know, all right, Oh I don't. 2:57:33.440 --> 2:57:35.880 How do I, Sophie, how do I introduce part three 2:57:36.160 --> 2:57:37.520 of the Kissinger series? 2:57:38.200 --> 2:57:40.800 You just did it? Gareth and David are right here, 2:57:40.879 --> 2:57:43.400 they're waiting for something good and I just I'm just 2:57:43.560 --> 2:57:44.160 I'm fucking it. 2:57:44.240 --> 2:57:44.760 Up, Sophie. 2:57:45.120 --> 2:57:49.560 I mean, yeah, but you you accidentally introduced the podcast 2:57:49.640 --> 2:57:50.400 which is behind the. 2:57:50.440 --> 2:57:54.720 Bastards Behind the doll Ups doll Up the Bastard the 2:57:54.800 --> 2:57:59.600 Bastards hybrid podcast, and like all hybrids, it is incapable 2:57:59.680 --> 2:58:04.520 of procreating, but better at getting up steep mountain passes. 2:58:05.040 --> 2:58:06.160 It's getting a little goading. 2:58:06.240 --> 2:58:11.480 Now we can multiply by cell division, but not through 2:58:12.160 --> 2:58:13.680 sexual Yeah. 2:58:14.280 --> 2:58:15.080 Yeah, we've tried. 2:58:15.360 --> 2:58:17.600 Yeah, we have, we have. We're in that process. 2:58:18.879 --> 2:58:19.360 We tried. 2:58:20.040 --> 2:58:23.720 So since we last recorded a podcast, war has broken 2:58:23.800 --> 2:58:24.680 out and I was. 2:58:24.760 --> 2:58:28.360 Just thinking, mister in Europe, God, three days yeah, but 2:58:28.480 --> 2:58:30.800 we like ended it and then it was like, oh wow, 2:58:30.879 --> 2:58:33.440 it's happening, and now it feels like it's been two 2:58:33.560 --> 2:58:36.120 months since. Then had a brief conversation what do you 2:58:36.160 --> 2:58:37.000 think is going to happen? 2:58:37.120 --> 2:58:40.400 And then immediately checked our phones to be like, oh, okay, 2:58:40.560 --> 2:58:45.800 so they're shipping all over the place. Oh so, y'all 2:58:45.959 --> 2:58:49.200 are we ready to learn about Henry Kissinger and a 2:58:49.280 --> 2:58:52.959 little country you might have heard of called Cambodia, Oh god, 2:58:53.360 --> 2:58:55.959 and also a separate country you might have called Lao, 2:58:56.520 --> 2:58:59.320 and also Vietnam. Still so that energy, I. 2:58:59.400 --> 2:59:01.320 Am, let's go, let's do it. 2:59:01.800 --> 2:59:02.039 Yeah. 2:59:02.560 --> 2:59:06.879 So on February fourteenth, Valentine's Day, nineteen sixty five, President 2:59:06.959 --> 2:59:11.040 Lyndon B. Johnson approved Operation Rolling Thunder. This was a 2:59:11.120 --> 2:59:14.440 long term campaign of aerial bombing against North Vietnam. It's 2:59:14.480 --> 2:59:16.560 primary aims were to help them morale with the South 2:59:16.640 --> 2:59:20.200 Vietnamese and the Sikon government, to persuade North Vietnam to 2:59:20.240 --> 2:59:22.520 stop supporting the Viet Cong, and to destroy the North 2:59:22.560 --> 2:59:25.760 Vietnamese transportation infrastructure and industrial base so as to stop 2:59:25.840 --> 2:59:26.720 them from sending men. 2:59:26.680 --> 2:59:30.320 And equipment south. It did not succeed. As a spoiler, 2:59:31.080 --> 2:59:32.840 none of this, none of this works. 2:59:33.760 --> 2:59:38.119 Like it's just amazing that, like you have all this firepower, 2:59:38.240 --> 2:59:41.400 you have all these planes, and really you're talking about 2:59:41.440 --> 2:59:45.039 destroying like railroads and shipping. 2:59:45.240 --> 2:59:47.720 And like underground tunnels too. This is the ho Chiman Trail, 2:59:47.800 --> 2:59:47.960 you know. 2:59:48.160 --> 2:59:49.880 Yeah, yeah, I mean is that what we're talking about, 2:59:49.879 --> 2:59:50.600 the Hochiman Trail? 2:59:50.840 --> 2:59:53.880 Yes, okay, And we're never going to do that. No. 2:59:54.640 --> 2:59:56.600 This is like a lesson that no one ever learns 2:59:56.640 --> 2:59:58.840 in warfare. Because you can also point to like the 2:59:59.000 --> 3:00:01.800 saturation bombing of Germany, which had a minimal effect on 3:00:02.040 --> 3:00:04.760 German industrial production. You can talk about like what's happening 3:00:04.800 --> 3:00:06.959 right now in Ukraine, which has not succeeded in its 3:00:07.000 --> 3:00:09.920 strategic games. You could talk about a number of wars 3:00:09.959 --> 3:00:11.520 the US has been involved, and you can talk about 3:00:11.560 --> 3:00:14.080 like World War One, where the British would drop a 3:00:14.200 --> 3:00:16.480 million shells in a couple of hours on a chunk 3:00:16.480 --> 3:00:18.320 of trench line and then all get killed by machine 3:00:18.360 --> 3:00:22.320 gun fire because the shells didn't do enough. Like military 3:00:22.600 --> 3:00:24.600 leaders always have this idea that we can just bomb 3:00:24.640 --> 3:00:27.400 our problems away and it just never really works. 3:00:27.920 --> 3:00:30.959 Yeah, no, it doesn't. Yeah, you know what it does. 3:00:31.280 --> 3:00:33.840 It terrifies the civilian population. 3:00:33.959 --> 3:00:37.160 It sure does, yes, and it helps the Pentagon a lot. 3:00:37.200 --> 3:00:39.080 I think it does help the Pentagon. It makes money 3:00:39.160 --> 3:00:41.279 for people, so I guess to that extent it succeeds 3:00:41.280 --> 3:00:43.720 in its goal. And Operation Rolling Thunder did make some 3:00:43.800 --> 3:00:46.800 people a lot of money. It continued for three straight 3:00:46.879 --> 3:00:49.879 years until November of nineteen sixty eight. During this period, 3:00:49.959 --> 3:00:52.360 Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps planes through more than 3:00:52.400 --> 3:00:54.880 three hundred thousand attack sorties, which dropped more than eight 3:00:55.000 --> 3:00:58.680 hundred and sixty four thousand tons of bombs. For reference, 3:00:58.720 --> 3:01:01.040 the United States dropped half a million tons of bombs 3:01:01.080 --> 3:01:04.920 in the Pacific theater during all of World War two Christ. Yeah, 3:01:05.080 --> 3:01:07.840 it is hard to exaggerate the extent to which we 3:01:07.920 --> 3:01:10.720 bomb the shit out of North Vietnam to no notable effect. 3:01:11.600 --> 3:01:14.240 According to our trustworthy friends at the CIA, the raids 3:01:14.280 --> 3:01:17.040 did five hundred million dollars in damage, killed twenty one 3:01:17.080 --> 3:01:19.760 thousand people, and injured more than thirty thousand more. The 3:01:19.920 --> 3:01:22.840 CIA says that seventy five percent of all casualties were 3:01:22.879 --> 3:01:27.000 people involved in military operations. US government estimates, not by 3:01:27.080 --> 3:01:30.879 the CIA, however, estimate at least thirty thousand civilian fatalities. 3:01:31.080 --> 3:01:33.920 Other estimates placed the civilian death toll much higher, at 3:01:33.959 --> 3:01:37.920 close to two hundred thousand civilians, probably fair to say 3:01:37.959 --> 3:01:40.920 north of one hundred thousand. You know, a lot, a 3:01:40.959 --> 3:01:45.280 lot of folks. By the time Kissinger and Nixon took office, 3:01:45.360 --> 3:01:47.960 it was clear that Rolling Thunder had failed miserably. This 3:01:48.120 --> 3:01:50.360 was due in part to the existence of the Hochiman 3:01:50.440 --> 3:01:53.119 Trail in nineteen fifty nine, this is before US soldiers 3:01:53.160 --> 3:01:56.120 had officially entered the country. The trail had been created 3:01:56.280 --> 3:01:59.160 under order by the Loudong, which is the Communist Party 3:01:59.200 --> 3:02:00.920 of Vietnam, to aid them in what was at that 3:02:01.000 --> 3:02:04.120 point a building conflict with South Vietnam. At the start, 3:02:04.200 --> 3:02:07.240 it led across just the demilitarized zone into Quaisan and 3:02:07.360 --> 3:02:10.840 South Vietnam. Porters would carry boxes of ammunition and rifles 3:02:10.920 --> 3:02:13.400 on their body, which they would then hand to insurgents 3:02:13.440 --> 3:02:16.000 in the South. Over time, the trail was expanded to 3:02:16.080 --> 3:02:19.480 a vast underground transit network, more than twelve thousand miles 3:02:19.560 --> 3:02:22.520 in size, capable of moving more than ten thousand troops 3:02:22.560 --> 3:02:25.480 and thousands of trucks per year. As the fighting escalated, 3:02:25.520 --> 3:02:28.000 the trail veered into Lao, where the government was engaged 3:02:28.040 --> 3:02:30.640 fighting its own insurgency and unable to stop the transit 3:02:30.680 --> 3:02:33.840 of weapons. The Hochiman Trail allowed North Vietnam to smuggle 3:02:33.879 --> 3:02:36.440 equipment south and to evade the US naval blockade that 3:02:36.520 --> 3:02:39.680 sought to choke it out. Today, even Defense Department sources 3:02:39.760 --> 3:02:42.800 recognized it as one of the greatest logistical successes of 3:02:42.879 --> 3:02:46.640 twentieth century warfare. It works pretty good for this trail. 3:02:46.879 --> 3:02:49.680 It's amazing to think of the number of bombs you're 3:02:49.800 --> 3:02:54.680 talking about. And then they made a tunnel. Yeah, it 3:02:54.800 --> 3:02:58.400 turns out they dug a hole. Yeah, a really good haul. 3:02:58.680 --> 3:03:03.080 But it's like Chopak, it's not just a tunnel. 3:03:03.120 --> 3:03:06.800 It's in a jungle, like we're tying him out a 3:03:06.920 --> 3:03:10.200 very difficult sort of environment to make a tunnel. 3:03:10.640 --> 3:03:14.600 It's not that like it's incredible what they did. Yeah. 3:03:15.280 --> 3:03:18.480 So lbj's administration sent planes into Lao to bomb the 3:03:18.560 --> 3:03:21.760 trail and to escort Laochian planes while they bombed the trail. 3:03:22.160 --> 3:03:24.960 When US airmen were killed or captured over Lao, their 3:03:25.000 --> 3:03:28.160 families were told they'd gone down in Southeast Asia to 3:03:28.320 --> 3:03:31.400 allow LBJ to claim he'd abided by his nineteen sixty 3:03:31.440 --> 3:03:34.760 four election promise to avoid a wider war. Cambodia was 3:03:34.800 --> 3:03:38.000 bombed as well, but during lbj's administration, Lao was considered 3:03:38.080 --> 3:03:40.280 a more important target. They thought more stuff was getting 3:03:40.280 --> 3:03:42.880 into Vietnam through Lao. This changed in nineteen sixty eight, 3:03:43.200 --> 3:03:45.080 when the Tet Offensive made it clear that that North 3:03:45.120 --> 3:03:47.440 Vietnam had gotten very good at running troops in and 3:03:47.480 --> 3:03:50.440 out of Cambodia. Johnson hadn't been willing to escalate the 3:03:50.480 --> 3:03:53.240 bombing campaign against a neutral country, though, especially since again 3:03:53.280 --> 3:03:55.000 there was this big election going on and he was 3:03:55.120 --> 3:03:58.080 kind of having his vice president run on the promise 3:03:58.160 --> 3:03:59.720 that like we're really going to end this thing. So 3:03:59.760 --> 3:04:03.199 you know LBJ when he's trying to tease North Vietnam 3:04:03.240 --> 3:04:06.359 with a bombing halt, isn't gonna just start laying into Cambodia. 3:04:06.640 --> 3:04:08.720 Right In the spring of nineteen sixty nine, after you know, 3:04:08.840 --> 3:04:12.200 Kissinger and Nixon took office, they approved the expanded use 3:04:12.240 --> 3:04:14.959 of US special forces in Lao along with a campaign 3:04:15.000 --> 3:04:19.120 of sustained air strikes. This was called Operation Steel Tiger. 3:04:20.480 --> 3:04:26.320 All of these so, I mean, the stupidest names. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we. 3:04:26.480 --> 3:04:29.040 I mean we the marketing that we have gone for 3:04:29.280 --> 3:04:32.360 in this country for so long has been so absurd. 3:04:32.840 --> 3:04:35.720 Steel Tiger, well, I mean they're just taking y and 3:04:35.800 --> 3:04:37.280 T album names at this point. 3:04:37.560 --> 3:04:45.000 Yeah, if only they'd gone with like Prince Operation Purple Rain. 3:04:45.120 --> 3:04:51.400 But it's likely the folianth that gives everyone cancer. So 3:04:52.440 --> 3:04:55.560 I should note here that all secret operations carried out 3:04:55.600 --> 3:04:58.520 by any US forces anywhere in the world during the 3:04:58.640 --> 3:05:03.080 Nixon administration were approved personally by Henry Kissinger. Henry was 3:05:03.120 --> 3:05:06.520 the chairman of something called the forty committ Hell oh 3:05:06.640 --> 3:05:11.680 sorrys This was a semi secret body that had been 3:05:11.720 --> 3:05:15.439 set up to provide management and oversight to CIA covert operations. 3:05:15.920 --> 3:05:17.800 The committee was made up of members of the National 3:05:17.840 --> 3:05:20.680 Security Council. They concerned themselves regularly with the question of 3:05:20.760 --> 3:05:23.600 how to stop weapons from flowing into Vietnam. By this point, 3:05:23.720 --> 3:05:26.040 trails ran through parts of Flow and Cambodia, but also 3:05:26.120 --> 3:05:29.320 from the Vietnam Chinese border. So Kissinger is the head 3:05:29.320 --> 3:05:31.240 of this committee. Considers a number of ways to stop 3:05:31.280 --> 3:05:34.400 weapons from getting into new or from getting into North Vietnam, 3:05:34.720 --> 3:05:38.520 including the use of thermonuclear weapons to annihilate the rail 3:05:38.560 --> 3:05:43.000 waste between North Vietnam and China Jesus out of its 3:05:43.240 --> 3:05:46.560 entire damn mind, and to be fair, is nuts enough 3:05:46.600 --> 3:05:49.680 that even Kissinger is like, no, that's a little too far. 3:05:53.480 --> 3:05:56.720 He also considered bombing the dikes that kept North Vietnam's 3:05:56.720 --> 3:05:59.880 irrigation system from flooding all of its fields. Both of 3:06:00.040 --> 3:06:03.240 these would have been war crimes on a Titanic scale. Thankfully, 3:06:03.320 --> 3:06:05.840 Kassinger declined to do either in favor of a completely 3:06:05.879 --> 3:06:07.000 different set of war crimes. 3:06:07.200 --> 3:06:11.480 So that's good, that's nice. Yeah, don't let's do a 3:06:11.560 --> 3:06:12.119 different thing. 3:06:12.320 --> 3:06:15.160 He decides which war crimes to commit, like we decide 3:06:15.200 --> 3:06:16.920 like jeans or sweatpants in the morning. 3:06:17.760 --> 3:06:19.680 I mean, I think that would go really well. With 3:06:19.760 --> 3:06:21.640 what we're doing. Now that a really tie the whole 3:06:21.680 --> 3:06:25.320 thing together. Yeah, it's quite a life. 3:06:25.640 --> 3:06:28.400 So immediately after taking office, Henry helps his new boss 3:06:28.440 --> 3:06:32.040 put together a menu of bombardment targets in Cambodia. This 3:06:32.160 --> 3:06:34.160 is literally called Operation Menu. 3:06:35.120 --> 3:06:45.720 Now, yeah, what before some great ideas to tip your bombardier. 3:06:47.920 --> 3:06:48.160 Get this? 3:06:49.320 --> 3:06:52.440 That was That's what I don't know. I actually don't 3:06:52.440 --> 3:06:54.240 recall off the top of my head which bombing operation 3:06:54.360 --> 3:06:56.480 McCain was involved in. But there's a good there's a 3:06:56.480 --> 3:06:58.800 good tip joke to be made there. Somebody will figure 3:06:58.800 --> 3:07:02.000 it out. Well people do in post. Yeah, we'll figure 3:07:02.000 --> 3:07:05.840 it out. Different parts of Operation Menu had code names. 3:07:05.879 --> 3:07:11.160 Different targets had code names like breakfast, lunch, certain. 3:07:11.160 --> 3:07:15.480 What I mean? It is one thing to be like 3:07:16.200 --> 3:07:20.960 so sadistic, and it's just another thing to tie it into. 3:07:22.000 --> 3:07:27.440 Wanted to try brunch. Yeah, we're going back to brunch 3:07:27.560 --> 3:07:29.280 finally under the watchful. 3:07:33.720 --> 3:07:37.360 So slaughter can be fun, like you can find fun. 3:07:37.760 --> 3:07:40.880 Yeah, it's you should got to love what you do, Dave, 3:07:40.959 --> 3:07:42.920 otherwise you're just going to feel like work, you know. 3:07:43.640 --> 3:07:43.720 Ye. 3:07:47.160 --> 3:07:49.920 So, before they began this series of bombings, the Joint 3:07:49.959 --> 3:07:52.200 chiefs of Staff they warned the White House quote, some 3:07:52.400 --> 3:07:57.160 Cambodian casualties would be sustained in the operation. Surprise effectiveness 3:07:57.560 --> 3:08:01.040 would tend to increase casualties. So they're like the fact 3:08:01.040 --> 3:08:02.720 that we're not warning anyone and that we're keeping this 3:08:02.800 --> 3:08:05.280 a secret means more civilians will die. Like, heads up, 3:08:06.000 --> 3:08:08.640 so you know what you're doing. This is what's going 3:08:08.680 --> 3:08:09.080 to happen. 3:08:10.200 --> 3:08:10.320 Now. 3:08:10.400 --> 3:08:12.920 As they approached the question of bombing Cambodia a Kissinger 3:08:12.959 --> 3:08:15.359 and Nixon had a choice. They could either tell Congress 3:08:15.840 --> 3:08:17.680 or they could hide what they were doing and use 3:08:17.720 --> 3:08:20.720 the presidential power over the Armed Services to appropriate funds 3:08:20.760 --> 3:08:22.640 from other places in order to carry out the bombing 3:08:22.680 --> 3:08:25.680 and secret. Nixon had been elected with Kissinger's help in 3:08:25.760 --> 3:08:28.560 part due to the LBJA administration's failure to end the war. 3:08:29.000 --> 3:08:30.960 He didn't want to go into nineteen seventy two's re 3:08:31.080 --> 3:08:34.040 election campaign having to defend the fact that he expanded it. 3:08:34.600 --> 3:08:38.040 Henry Kissinger worked with colonels Alexander Haig and Race Sitten 3:08:38.080 --> 3:08:40.199 to figure it away for the president to direct bombing 3:08:40.280 --> 3:08:43.000 operations in a private manner. And I'm going to quote 3:08:43.000 --> 3:08:47.359 from Kissinger's Shadow by Greg Grandon Sitton based on recommendations 3:08:47.360 --> 3:08:50.119 he received from General Creighton Abrams, the commander of military 3:08:50.160 --> 3:08:52.760 operations in Vietnam, would work up a number of targets 3:08:52.800 --> 3:08:54.880 in Cambodia to be struck. Then he would bring them 3:08:54.879 --> 3:08:56.840 to Kissinger and Hague in the White House for approval. 3:08:57.120 --> 3:08:59.840 Kissinger was very hands on revising some of Sitten's work. 3:09:00.160 --> 3:09:01.760 I don't know what he was using as his reason 3:09:01.840 --> 3:09:04.879 for varying them. Sitting later recalled strike here in this area, 3:09:05.000 --> 3:09:07.440 Kissinger would tell him or strike there in that area. 3:09:07.920 --> 3:09:10.840 Once Kissinger was satisfied with the proposed target, Sittin would 3:09:10.840 --> 3:09:13.320 back channel the coordinates to Saigon, and from there a 3:09:13.400 --> 3:09:16.039 courier would pass them on to the appropriate radar stations, 3:09:16.240 --> 3:09:18.680 where an officer would make a last minute switch. The 3:09:18.720 --> 3:09:21.000 B fifty two would be diverted from its cover target 3:09:21.080 --> 3:09:23.800 in South Vietnam into Cambodia, where it would drop its 3:09:23.840 --> 3:09:26.600 bomb load on the real target. When the run was complete, 3:09:26.640 --> 3:09:29.760 the officer in charge of the deception would burn whatever documents, maps, 3:09:29.800 --> 3:09:32.720 computer printouts, radar reports, messages, and so on that might 3:09:32.800 --> 3:09:35.360 reveal the actual flight. Then he would write up false 3:09:35.440 --> 3:09:38.400 post strike paperwork indicating that the South Vietnam sortie was 3:09:38.440 --> 3:09:39.240 flown as planned. 3:09:39.600 --> 3:09:42.800 It's so much work. Yeah, reminds me of when I 3:09:42.920 --> 3:09:45.800 used to skip school, that like the lengths I would 3:09:45.840 --> 3:09:49.120 go to to get away with cutting class, and like 3:09:49.440 --> 3:09:51.360 the point would be made always to me, like if 3:09:51.360 --> 3:09:55.440 you put this focus towards studying, you'd probably you'd spend 3:09:55.520 --> 3:09:58.160 less time and it would be more effective. But instead 3:09:58.240 --> 3:10:01.200 you just waste so much. Instead of just stopping, you 3:10:01.720 --> 3:10:05.120 do all this gymnastics just to continue the thing that 3:10:05.400 --> 3:10:08.480 is the problem, that makes the problem compound. 3:10:08.800 --> 3:10:11.560 Yeah, it's they really are are going through a lot 3:10:11.680 --> 3:10:15.080 of work to illegally bomb a neutral country to look 3:10:15.200 --> 3:10:17.400 like they're not bombing. Yeah, to look like they're not. 3:10:18.440 --> 3:10:20.880 It's gaslighting, you know, this is that's what That's what 3:10:21.000 --> 3:10:21.800 this is kissing. 3:10:22.160 --> 3:10:22.320 You know. 3:10:23.200 --> 3:10:24.640 We're finally going to get him canceled. 3:10:24.680 --> 3:10:30.039 This is going to be what it would be. Imagine 3:10:31.000 --> 3:10:31.879 a Canceler book. 3:10:32.480 --> 3:10:36.679 We're gonna do Kissinger on Hannibal Burst did to Cosby. 3:10:36.520 --> 3:10:40.200 Oh man, come on, come on. 3:10:42.600 --> 3:10:46.680 So you know, obviously this is very illegal. There's a 3:10:46.760 --> 3:10:48.200 lot of and there's a lot of parts of it 3:10:48.320 --> 3:10:50.879 that are illegal. For example, the military has a chain 3:10:50.920 --> 3:10:53.920 of command and Sitton was bypassing his bosses in the 3:10:53.959 --> 3:10:56.160 Department of Defense, because he's just a colonel, right, Like 3:10:56.280 --> 3:10:58.920 colonels don't get to that's not there, Like you're not 3:10:59.040 --> 3:11:02.080 at that level, right, So he is he is bypassing 3:11:02.360 --> 3:11:06.279 the normal chain of command in order to directly orchestrate 3:11:06.280 --> 3:11:08.680 an a legal bombing campaign with the White House and 3:11:08.800 --> 3:11:11.680 kind of cutting out a chunk of the Pentagon sitting 3:11:11.720 --> 3:11:13.280 knew at the time that it was weird to cut 3:11:13.320 --> 3:11:16.000 his commanding officers out and report directly to Henry Kissinger. 3:11:16.280 --> 3:11:18.600 He later recalled, I kind of felt I was way 3:11:18.640 --> 3:11:20.440 out on a limb and skating on some pretty thin 3:11:20.480 --> 3:11:22.280 ice with all my trips to the West basement of 3:11:22.320 --> 3:11:25.000 the White House where he's meeting with Yeah. 3:11:25.080 --> 3:11:29.320 I mean yeah, like, yeah, I'm going to a secret basement, Yeah, 3:11:30.400 --> 3:11:33.160 to talk about bombing, Like maybe maybe this isn't how 3:11:33.200 --> 3:11:34.160 it's supposed to be done. 3:11:34.600 --> 3:11:40.359 Him seem like a democracy I feel like we shouldn't 3:11:40.400 --> 3:11:43.200 be doing things like this in a basement. I can't 3:11:43.240 --> 3:11:48.959 come to secret democracy basement. Yeah. Yeah. The people voted 3:11:49.040 --> 3:11:52.200 for this basement. A knock, so I know it's you. 3:11:53.000 --> 3:11:54.840 I noted here that they kind of cut out a 3:11:54.959 --> 3:11:58.280 large chunk of like the military command apparatus to do this, 3:11:58.560 --> 3:12:00.600 which doesn't mean that those guys were against what they 3:12:00.680 --> 3:12:03.240 were doing. And in fact, all of Sitton's superiors knew 3:12:03.280 --> 3:12:05.400 what he was doing. They just didn't want to be 3:12:05.520 --> 3:12:07.880 involved because again, it was a crime, you know. 3:12:08.320 --> 3:12:10.800 Like so they so they're like they're down with the 3:12:10.840 --> 3:12:13.520 cutout because they're just like, yeah, you do it. 3:12:13.800 --> 3:12:15.039 I don't want my name on this shit. 3:12:15.280 --> 3:12:17.880 It's crazy, but go with it for sure. Yeah I 3:12:18.000 --> 3:12:20.120 love it. Yeah we love it. Give me out of 3:12:20.120 --> 3:12:20.480 the loop. 3:12:20.560 --> 3:12:23.359 But yeah, they didn't know about the bombing f Cambodia 3:12:23.440 --> 3:12:26.960 the same way. I have never known a pot dealer, right, 3:12:29.040 --> 3:12:31.320 So Sitting would regularly like, I don't know. I'm not 3:12:31.320 --> 3:12:32.800 going to say this is to his credit, but he 3:12:32.959 --> 3:12:34.840 was like this is weird, and he would go he did, 3:12:34.920 --> 3:12:36.960 on a couple of occasions go to his superiors and 3:12:37.080 --> 3:12:38.160 was like, are. 3:12:38.200 --> 3:12:39.280 You okay with this? 3:12:39.920 --> 3:12:43.280 And his exact phrase about what they responded was just 3:12:43.520 --> 3:12:45.280 do just what you're doing. When you get a call 3:12:45.360 --> 3:12:47.000 to go to the White House, go because you don't 3:12:47.040 --> 3:12:47.879 really have a choice. 3:12:48.240 --> 3:12:49.280 Just great, Oh my god. 3:12:49.400 --> 3:12:53.519 It's so it's it's straight out of the show snowfall. 3:12:53.680 --> 3:12:57.200 Like it's just like this shit just happens all the time. Yeah, 3:12:57.320 --> 3:12:59.440 this is what happened with Iran. Contract was the same, 3:12:59.560 --> 3:13:03.480 fucking know. Yeah, it's all crimes. And it's worth noting that, 3:13:03.600 --> 3:13:06.360 like the United States is going to war with a 3:13:06.480 --> 3:13:09.360 neutral country in secret under the personal direction of a 3:13:09.400 --> 3:13:11.640 guy who several months ago had been a Harvard professor 3:13:11.800 --> 3:13:14.600 like Kissinger is not even a year distant from being 3:13:14.640 --> 3:13:17.440 a fucking teacher this and now he is orchestrating a 3:13:17.520 --> 3:13:20.600 secret war in Cambodia. I mean, and like, I love 3:13:20.680 --> 3:13:24.240 the I love the beginning thing where you said there's 3:13:24.440 --> 3:13:26.840 like a guy whose job it is to pick targets, 3:13:26.879 --> 3:13:30.200 and he's picking targets and Nick guessn't just taking them 3:13:30.240 --> 3:13:32.800 maps and going No, I like most bomb here, like 3:13:33.080 --> 3:13:35.480 just totally random. He doesn't have any fucking idea what 3:13:35.520 --> 3:13:37.760 he's doing. He's just like that hill looks like it 3:13:37.800 --> 3:13:38.480 should go away. 3:13:39.120 --> 3:13:42.240 He has not even begun to micromanage this, this war 3:13:42.360 --> 3:13:47.960 crime day. So the purpose of this illegal bombing campaign 3:13:48.080 --> 3:13:50.240 was not just to stop the movement of Vietnamese troops 3:13:50.280 --> 3:13:53.520 and materiel. It also it also pleaded a role in 3:13:53.600 --> 3:13:58.119 advancing what Nixon called his Madman theory. Now, the President 3:13:58.200 --> 3:14:00.920 had shared this with close confidence to the nineteen sixty 3:14:00.959 --> 3:14:03.400 eight election. He told his future chief of staff that 3:14:03.600 --> 3:14:06.520 in order to negotiate an into the war with favorable terms, 3:14:06.800 --> 3:14:08.920 he felt he had to make the North Vietnamese quote, 3:14:09.160 --> 3:14:11.440 believe I've reached a point where I might do anything 3:14:11.520 --> 3:14:13.680 to stop the war. We'll just slip the word to 3:14:13.720 --> 3:14:16.080 them that, for God's sake, you know, Nixon is obsessed 3:14:16.080 --> 3:14:18.440 about communists. We can't restrain him when he's angry, and 3:14:18.520 --> 3:14:20.320 he has his hand on the nuclear button. And Ho 3:14:20.480 --> 3:14:22.480 Chi Minh himself will be in Paris in two days 3:14:22.520 --> 3:14:24.320 begging for peace, which is. 3:14:24.440 --> 3:14:27.000 Like the idea someone's like, so you want us to 3:14:27.120 --> 3:14:30.720 try to convey that you're crazy? Okay, that seems I 3:14:30.760 --> 3:14:33.360 think it's coming across her. Honestly, I think that's already 3:14:34.400 --> 3:14:35.760 baked into this whole thing a little bit. 3:14:35.879 --> 3:14:38.520 It's also very funny that, like they are trying to 3:14:38.680 --> 3:14:40.920 scare Ho Chi Minh, who at this point is fighting 3:14:41.000 --> 3:14:44.280 his second winning war against a major world power with 3:14:44.560 --> 3:14:48.240 like a very very small number of people, you know, 3:14:48.520 --> 3:14:51.320 Like no, North Vietnam not a big country compared to 3:14:51.400 --> 3:14:56.800 say the French imperial forces or the United States. He's 3:14:56.840 --> 3:14:58.640 not a kind of you're not going to scare ho 3:14:58.840 --> 3:14:59.240 Chi minh. 3:14:59.440 --> 3:15:01.600 Right, he's not. He's not a guy who gets spooked. 3:15:01.840 --> 3:15:02.040 Yeah. 3:15:02.120 --> 3:15:03.000 No, it's over. 3:15:03.440 --> 3:15:05.560 That's just absolutely not happening at this point. 3:15:05.760 --> 3:15:06.000 Yeah. 3:15:06.200 --> 3:15:09.720 Now, Kissinger either believed in his boss's plan or understood 3:15:09.760 --> 3:15:12.200 that he had to play along. Greg Grandon argues that 3:15:12.320 --> 3:15:14.880 Nixon's mad Man theory was actually just an extension of 3:15:14.920 --> 3:15:17.600 the foreign policy arguments that Kissinger himself had been making 3:15:17.680 --> 3:15:21.080 for years. Quote toughness after all was a late motif 3:15:21.160 --> 3:15:23.720 that run ran through much of his state craft, the 3:15:23.800 --> 3:15:26.520 idea that war and diplomacy are inseparable, and that to 3:15:26.600 --> 3:15:29.040 be effective, diplomats need to be able to punish and 3:15:29.080 --> 3:15:32.240 persuade an equal unrestricted measure. In fact, the mad Man 3:15:32.360 --> 3:15:35.080 theory was an extension of Kissinger's philosophy of the deed 3:15:35.440 --> 3:15:37.960 that power wasn't power unless one was willing to use it, 3:15:38.200 --> 3:15:40.680 that the purpose of action was to neutralize the inertia 3:15:40.800 --> 3:15:41.280 of an action. 3:15:42.879 --> 3:15:45.720 I mean it like it's not I mean it's not 3:15:45.760 --> 3:15:49.480 a double down. It's like it's eighteen double downs. But 3:15:49.680 --> 3:15:54.200 at some point you just I at least in my 3:15:54.400 --> 3:15:58.040 lifetime had a moment where I did believe that there 3:15:58.720 --> 3:16:01.200 there were people who were who would like point out 3:16:01.400 --> 3:16:04.320 the crazy shit. And the more you learn, the more 3:16:04.360 --> 3:16:06.360 you go, No, there's just there's not They are just 3:16:06.480 --> 3:16:08.680 all like it's like a bunch of junkies figuring out 3:16:08.720 --> 3:16:11.800 how to get more junk. Yeah, I mean, it's just 3:16:11.920 --> 3:16:14.039 like it's just how do you get through the day. 3:16:14.200 --> 3:16:16.119 It's not long term anything. Yep. 3:16:16.280 --> 3:16:19.720 You know, there's a degree to which and this is 3:16:19.800 --> 3:16:21.640 like one of the things that's most frustrating about this 3:16:22.160 --> 3:16:24.760 part of how this always gets justified is there's legitimate 3:16:24.840 --> 3:16:27.800 logic in that, Yeah, Hitler gobbled up a bunch of 3:16:27.879 --> 3:16:31.240 little chunks of Western Europe and nobody stopped him, and 3:16:31.400 --> 3:16:34.240 they should have, like something should have been done, like 3:16:34.360 --> 3:16:36.959 when he decided to take Czechoslovakia, you know, or during 3:16:36.959 --> 3:16:40.360 the Angelis there's certainly you know, like there, and they 3:16:40.480 --> 3:16:42.520 take this logic of like, yeah, if you have this 3:16:42.760 --> 3:16:46.640 like massive militarized nation gobbling up its neighbors, you can't 3:16:46.760 --> 3:16:50.199 just necessarily do nothing. And they applied that to like, well, okay, 3:16:50.240 --> 3:16:53.160 we've got a bomb Cambodia. Because some dudes are hiking 3:16:53.240 --> 3:16:55.880 through it with guns on their back, like Chamberlain. 3:16:55.959 --> 3:17:00.480 Nonsense escalation. Chamberlain also is always in play there too, 3:17:00.520 --> 3:17:03.160 because it's like everyone's like, you know, want to be Chamberlain. 3:17:03.280 --> 3:17:06.440 Yeah, we're appeasing North Vietnam if we don't drop more 3:17:06.520 --> 3:17:08.600 bombs than we're dropped in all of World War Two 3:17:08.680 --> 3:17:09.400 on Cambodia. 3:17:09.680 --> 3:17:10.840 Yeah, I have Cambodia. 3:17:10.959 --> 3:17:16.879 It's this nonsense escalation of logic, of historical logic that's 3:17:16.959 --> 3:17:19.039 like like someday Nixon's just gonna look in the mirror 3:17:19.040 --> 3:17:21.680 and be like, sometimes I think I'm I'm just fighting 3:17:21.720 --> 3:17:25.680 a war inside of myself. There actually are some quotes 3:17:25.680 --> 3:17:28.000 from Kissinger that aren't all that far off here. 3:17:36.640 --> 3:17:37.160 We're back. 3:17:37.280 --> 3:17:40.840 So the first bombing mission in this operation was launched 3:17:40.879 --> 3:17:45.560 on March eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine. Kissinger was in conversation 3:17:45.720 --> 3:17:47.640 at the time when he was interrupted with a note 3:17:47.720 --> 3:17:49.680 telling him that the bombing run had been a success. 3:17:50.080 --> 3:17:52.520 He smiled and then sent the information on to the President. 3:17:52.800 --> 3:17:56.959 Nixon's chief of staff, later recalled historic day. Kissinger really excited. 3:17:57.040 --> 3:18:00.360 He came in beaming with the report. Now, it was 3:18:00.480 --> 3:18:02.480 noted by people who are around the White House that 3:18:02.600 --> 3:18:06.280 nick that Kissinger seem to enjoy quote playing the bombadier 3:18:06.560 --> 3:18:10.640 taking great pains to direct the destruction. Seymour Hirsch wrote 3:18:10.680 --> 3:18:13.760 that quote. When the military men presented a proposed bombing list, 3:18:13.879 --> 3:18:17.160 Kissinger would redesign the missions, shifting a dozen planes, perhaps 3:18:17.240 --> 3:18:19.680 from one area to another, and altering the timing of 3:18:19.760 --> 3:18:20.600 the bombing runs. 3:18:21.680 --> 3:18:22.120 And it does. 3:18:22.280 --> 3:18:26.440 Yeah, I guess no fucking expertise in this area, absolutely none. 3:18:27.040 --> 3:18:30.320 He's a fucking nerd who reads books like you don't 3:18:30.320 --> 3:18:32.080 know anything about what to bomb, Henry. 3:18:32.480 --> 3:18:34.520 It's like me showing up at a hospital and being like, 3:18:34.560 --> 3:18:37.120 all right, give me this surgical schedule. I need to 3:18:37.160 --> 3:18:40.320 start to working these surgeries and getting them in order 3:18:40.600 --> 3:18:45.320 like that. Yeah, it's fucking crazy, it is. I mean, 3:18:45.959 --> 3:18:47.560 this is there's a human impulse here, right. 3:18:47.560 --> 3:18:49.560 We're seeing it in Ukraine where all these like random 3:18:49.640 --> 3:18:51.880 people are being like, here's how you disable a tank, 3:18:51.920 --> 3:18:53.680 and it's like, you've never disabled a tank. You don't 3:18:53.680 --> 3:18:55.480 know what the fuck you're talking about. Like you're not 3:18:55.520 --> 3:18:58.360 gonna like throwing paint on it isn't going to stop it. 3:18:58.560 --> 3:19:00.600 You're going to get people killed. If any one's stupid 3:19:00.680 --> 3:19:02.840 enough to listen to you shut up. It just like 3:19:03.160 --> 3:19:06.200 Kissinger is actually in a power to really do that. 3:19:06.440 --> 3:19:08.600 And there's this I don't know what it is. I 3:19:08.640 --> 3:19:10.800 don't know what it is that makes some people certain 3:19:10.879 --> 3:19:13.200 that like they know how to prosecute an entire war 3:19:13.640 --> 3:19:16.640 based on their experience reading a lot of books at 3:19:16.680 --> 3:19:17.480 a school. 3:19:17.600 --> 3:19:19.760 And there's and there's. It doesn't sound like there's anybody 3:19:19.800 --> 3:19:21.720 who's going like, no, that doesn't make any sense. Is 3:19:21.800 --> 3:19:24.960 this out of its mind? Yeah? Yeah, it's just like 3:19:25.360 --> 3:19:27.560 it is. It's just people being like, okay, sure. 3:19:27.600 --> 3:19:31.120 Because there's a lot Obviously, the the unrestricted drone warfare 3:19:31.280 --> 3:19:35.280 that that escalated during the Obama administration and continued at 3:19:35.280 --> 3:19:38.440 an even higher pace under Trump is indefensible morally, but 3:19:38.600 --> 3:19:40.520 also the way that it tended to work was like 3:19:40.560 --> 3:19:43.039 you would get, you know, these guys with the administration 3:19:43.160 --> 3:19:44.880 at whichever one it was, would say like, these are 3:19:44.920 --> 3:19:47.800 the things we are we are going to target with drones, 3:19:48.120 --> 3:19:50.360 and then the military would bring them like, well, here 3:19:50.400 --> 3:19:52.360 are the different options for strikes that we have, and 3:19:52.400 --> 3:19:55.240 they would like pick which one to do. Kissinger is 3:19:55.680 --> 3:19:59.120 literally taking the maps from them, erasing their plans, and 3:19:59.240 --> 3:20:02.200 like writing in his his own, which is like. 3:20:02.360 --> 3:20:04.640 Like a it's a coach and it's someone in the 3:20:04.720 --> 3:20:07.400 huddle with an actually with coach k he's drawing a 3:20:07.440 --> 3:20:09.880 plan on a whiteboard and then a fan just scribbles 3:20:09.920 --> 3:20:11.600 it out and like rubs it all down with his arm. 3:20:11.600 --> 3:20:13.960 And then he's like, instead, I don't we all run 3:20:14.080 --> 3:20:15.520 up the court at the same time, and then we 3:20:15.760 --> 3:20:18.000 passed the battle bunch. Try to do it. That would 3:20:18.160 --> 3:20:19.480 make someone head the butt into the. 3:20:20.080 --> 3:20:24.040 It's it's I think, yeah, I'm just upset because I 3:20:24.200 --> 3:20:25.600 bought forty gallons of paint. 3:20:25.879 --> 3:20:28.440 Because you were going to try to knock out a 3:20:28.480 --> 3:20:29.400 couple of tanks. 3:20:29.680 --> 3:20:32.640 Tank war, and now the whole fucking thing shot. 3:20:32.840 --> 3:20:37.039 Like yeah, yeah, there are some things paint is good 3:20:37.080 --> 3:20:40.000 at when it comes to conflict. There were some very 3:20:40.080 --> 3:20:42.240 funny moments in one of the big HUD fights we 3:20:42.320 --> 3:20:44.680 had up in Portland, where kids filled a fire extinguisher 3:20:44.760 --> 3:20:47.720 with paint and like ruined thousands of dollars in tactical gear. 3:20:48.120 --> 3:20:49.640 That was that was good. 3:20:50.160 --> 3:20:50.440 Wow. 3:20:52.320 --> 3:20:54.920 Look, it's not to say that amateurs never have good ideas, 3:20:55.040 --> 3:20:59.400 but they were not amateurs at that point though. 3:20:59.440 --> 3:20:59.800 Those kids. 3:21:00.000 --> 3:21:02.480 I've been finding those proud boys for a minute, so 3:21:03.080 --> 3:21:06.800 Kissinger's extraordinary degree of control over the situation was possible 3:21:06.840 --> 3:21:10.240 because he had literally reformed the entire national security apparatus 3:21:10.280 --> 3:21:13.720 around himself. Nixon wanted a buffer from his own secretary 3:21:13.760 --> 3:21:16.560 of State, which provided Henry with the opportunity to take 3:21:16.600 --> 3:21:19.879 as much power and centralize it around the National Security Advisor. 3:21:20.360 --> 3:21:21.720 And he could do this as long as he kept 3:21:21.800 --> 3:21:25.600 Nixon happy. Under Kissinger, the National Security Council, which he headed, 3:21:25.840 --> 3:21:29.440 became the center of US foreign policy, a massive bureaucracy 3:21:29.520 --> 3:21:33.680 fed piles of information embassy cables, intelligence reports, etc. Straight 3:21:33.720 --> 3:21:37.520 to Henry Kissinger. He decided, he's again, Henry is where 3:21:37.640 --> 3:21:40.600 all of the information from this vast apparatus that the 3:21:40.720 --> 3:21:42.880 US has to gather information right the eyes and ears 3:21:42.920 --> 3:21:44.680 of the president, you know, all of the things that 3:21:44.760 --> 3:21:47.720 are supposed to provide the president with information. All of 3:21:47.760 --> 3:21:50.960 that comes directly to Henry, and he decides what to 3:21:51.000 --> 3:21:51.680 give the president. 3:21:51.800 --> 3:21:55.640 And he was a teacher, and he was a year before. 3:21:55.920 --> 3:21:58.400 He was a guy whose primary claim to fame before 3:21:58.480 --> 3:22:00.680 this was we need more new we don't have enough 3:22:00.720 --> 3:22:05.480 fucking nukes, and also we should use them. Whenever it's 3:22:05.800 --> 3:22:08.400 I was just watching there's a great documentary called Commanded Control. 3:22:08.520 --> 3:22:10.800 That's about a nuclear disaster in the US in nineteen 3:22:10.840 --> 3:22:12.520 eighty that nearly killed half of the people on the 3:22:12.560 --> 3:22:15.560 East Coast. That enough folks don't know about. A guy 3:22:15.640 --> 3:22:18.760 accidentally dropped a bolt and it ignited part of a 3:22:18.840 --> 3:22:22.200 nuclear missile and it nearly killed everyone on the East seyboard. Yeah, 3:22:22.240 --> 3:22:22.400 it was. 3:22:22.520 --> 3:22:24.080 It was a big old It was a big kerfuffle. 3:22:25.680 --> 3:22:29.840 And say so the guys there's a profile and the thing. 3:22:30.440 --> 3:22:32.160 That's nuts about it. But one of the things that 3:22:32.240 --> 3:22:34.520 pointed out I think we have Sophie can google this 3:22:34.600 --> 3:22:36.200 for me. I think we have about six thousand nuclear 3:22:36.240 --> 3:22:38.000 weapons right now, which is way too many. 3:22:38.440 --> 3:22:41.800 But as a result we have yeah, we have the 3:22:42.720 --> 3:22:45.840 Soviet Russia is around six thousand. We have around forty 3:22:45.840 --> 3:22:46.320 eight hundred. 3:22:46.360 --> 3:22:49.200 I think forty eight hundred, So that's too much. Both 3:22:49.240 --> 3:22:51.000 countries have too many nukes. I think we can all 3:22:51.240 --> 3:22:51.920 say that's fair. 3:22:52.320 --> 3:22:53.880 It's a lot. I'm not sign enough on that. 3:22:54.160 --> 3:22:56.920 As a result, in part of Kissingers, we have a 3:22:57.000 --> 3:22:58.720 missile gap and we need to build more. By this 3:22:58.800 --> 3:23:01.039 point in the mid sixties, there are thirty two thousand 3:23:01.120 --> 3:23:02.560 nuclear weapons in the United States. 3:23:03.280 --> 3:23:07.400 It is that's even an aside because it's like a 3:23:07.520 --> 3:23:09.920 Kardashian with shoes. Yeah. 3:23:10.040 --> 3:23:14.039 I feel my thing has always been every every person 3:23:14.040 --> 3:23:16.840 who owns property should be allowed to have a nuke. 3:23:16.800 --> 3:23:17.560 Your own nuke. 3:23:18.280 --> 3:23:21.040 Look, I think you can all agree, you know what, 3:23:21.200 --> 3:23:23.480 you know what there wouldn't be if everyone had a nuke. Dave, 3:23:23.920 --> 3:23:25.279 no knock raids by the cops. 3:23:25.440 --> 3:23:25.920 That's true. 3:23:25.959 --> 3:23:27.320 You're not gonna have any of that shit. 3:23:28.160 --> 3:23:32.800 They're gonna be busted down doors. Yeah, come on, guys, 3:23:32.840 --> 3:23:36.119 are fine doors of mesole. 3:23:39.080 --> 3:23:42.720 Real different situation are the cops if everybody's got a nuke? 3:23:42.800 --> 3:23:44.840 Other problems though there would there would be some other 3:23:44.959 --> 3:23:47.040 problems I don't seem Yeah. 3:23:48.320 --> 3:23:52.800 So anyway, Kissinger is the the Kissinger is effectively turned 3:23:52.840 --> 3:23:55.920 himself into the eyes and ears of the United States 3:23:56.000 --> 3:23:57.080 military applats. 3:23:57.200 --> 3:23:59.560 He decides what it's great. 3:24:00.400 --> 3:24:03.080 You can argue he's one of the two or three 3:24:03.160 --> 3:24:05.920 most powerful people who's ever lived at this point. An 3:24:06.040 --> 3:24:10.360 argument could be made so Marvin and Bernard Kolb, who 3:24:10.400 --> 3:24:13.440 were both diplomats at this point, describe what Henry builds 3:24:13.480 --> 3:24:15.480 here as Henry's wonderful machine. 3:24:15.680 --> 3:24:15.960 Quote. 3:24:16.240 --> 3:24:23.199 Since Kissinger, I know, Willy Wonka mister Magoriam's nuclear emporium. 3:24:25.120 --> 3:24:28.720 Since Kissinger controlled the system, he controlled the decision making process. 3:24:28.800 --> 3:24:31.920 Everyone reports to Kissinger and only Kissinger reports to the president. 3:24:32.560 --> 3:24:35.760 This set up allowed Henry to micromanage bombing campaigns, over order, 3:24:35.879 --> 3:24:38.879 covert arms deals, and engage in secret diplomacy at will. 3:24:39.160 --> 3:24:42.000 He was not merely executing the president's orders. He himself 3:24:42.120 --> 3:24:44.840 was free to make national policy as long as Nixon 3:24:44.920 --> 3:24:48.880 was happy with him. From Kissinger's shadow quote, Kissinger, according 3:24:48.920 --> 3:24:52.400 to Marvin and Bernard kaulb knew almost instinctively that he 3:24:52.440 --> 3:24:54.840 would be able to control the bureaucracy and thus help 3:24:54.920 --> 3:24:57.959 reorder American diplomacy, only to the degree that he became 3:24:58.080 --> 3:25:01.680 indistinguishable from the President and his policies. Rogers at State 3:25:01.800 --> 3:25:04.360 was opposed to the idea of escalating the war into Cambodia. 3:25:04.600 --> 3:25:06.480 Laired at the Pentagon was for it, but thought it 3:25:06.600 --> 3:25:08.959 needed to be done above board, legally and publicly through 3:25:08.959 --> 3:25:11.560 the normal chain of command. This gave Kissinger an opening, 3:25:11.800 --> 3:25:14.840 letting him stake out in naplus ultra position. He wanted 3:25:14.879 --> 3:25:16.560 to bomb. He wanted to bomb in a way that 3:25:16.680 --> 3:25:18.920 inflicted the most pain, and he wanted to bomb an 3:25:19.040 --> 3:25:23.280 absolute secrecy, completely off the books. As a result, every 3:25:23.360 --> 3:25:26.160 war crime committed by the United States during the Nition administration, 3:25:26.720 --> 3:25:31.560 every bad thing US forces do, particularly under the ages 3:25:31.600 --> 3:25:34.959 of special operations at least right has to be considered 3:25:35.000 --> 3:25:37.760 one of Henry Kissinger's crimes because it is his job 3:25:37.879 --> 3:25:40.880 to personally sign off on all of them, and he 3:25:41.040 --> 3:25:43.800 is He is not just a rubber stamper. He is 3:25:44.480 --> 3:25:47.800 actively pushing for things. So we are going into very 3:25:47.840 --> 3:25:50.520 specific detail about one specific crime. If you find a 3:25:50.560 --> 3:25:54.760 bad thing that that US, the CIA or Special Forces 3:25:55.000 --> 3:25:57.720 did from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy three, Henry 3:25:57.800 --> 3:26:01.440 Kissinger gave that the old thumbs up. Again, We're gonna 3:26:01.480 --> 3:26:02.320 have to leave out a lot. 3:26:03.120 --> 3:26:07.360 It doesn't even sound like it's I mean, it's like 3:26:07.520 --> 3:26:10.520 ego based. Yeah, it's it's not even I mean there's 3:26:10.640 --> 3:26:13.880 there's there's so little actual. It just shows you, like 3:26:13.959 --> 3:26:16.480 what happens when you're in a bubble. Yeah, but I mean, 3:26:17.040 --> 3:26:20.200 I just don't think most people would would be capable 3:26:20.240 --> 3:26:22.760 of this. But it's it is. It's just like it's 3:26:22.840 --> 3:26:26.360 not really for anything other than he is just feels 3:26:26.400 --> 3:26:28.680 great being at the helm of this and it's an 3:26:28.720 --> 3:26:30.439 extremely powerful position. 3:26:30.360 --> 3:26:33.560 And it's such a bad idea, Like if you proceed 3:26:33.879 --> 3:26:35.680 like a moment, get ourselves in the headspace. If someone 3:26:35.720 --> 3:26:38.560 who thinks all of this is morally justified, it's a 3:26:38.600 --> 3:26:42.480 bad idea because a person can't competently manage all. 3:26:42.400 --> 3:26:46.120 Of this, right they would, right, they would be like, look, 3:26:46.160 --> 3:26:48.480 I need help. I mean, we're doing what we're going 3:26:48.520 --> 3:26:53.000 to do, like a reasonable warlord would be like delegated, rational, 3:26:54.120 --> 3:26:57.160 level headed, Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah. 3:26:58.040 --> 3:27:00.800 So when he was signing off on bombing, Kissinger poured 3:27:00.840 --> 3:27:04.320 over raw intelligence documents, which included information on exactly, in 3:27:04.400 --> 3:27:07.680 many cases, down to the number how many civilians lived 3:27:07.720 --> 3:27:11.720 in a certain target area. Now, sometimes it was a 3:27:11.760 --> 3:27:14.199 little bit less specific in this. For example, Area seven 3:27:14.280 --> 3:27:18.320 oh four, which had quote sizable concentrations of civilians, didn't 3:27:18.320 --> 3:27:20.480 have an exact number, but was bobbed two hundred and 3:27:20.560 --> 3:27:23.879 forty seven times on Henry Kissinger's orders. And since we're 3:27:23.879 --> 3:27:25.600 going to be talking a lot about bombing, we should 3:27:25.600 --> 3:27:27.840 discuss exactly what that mint in this case. Because all 3:27:27.879 --> 3:27:31.360 bombings are not created equal. The bombings Kissinger directed were 3:27:31.400 --> 3:27:34.600 carried out by B fifty two bombers. These are massive plans. 3:27:34.640 --> 3:27:36.920 These are like the size of the big international commercial 3:27:36.959 --> 3:27:40.279 aircraft roughly right. These are not like fighter jets and stuff. 3:27:41.120 --> 3:27:43.480 These fly too high to be seen from the ground, 3:27:43.800 --> 3:27:47.200 and they are incapable of meaningful discrimination between civilian and 3:27:47.280 --> 3:27:50.320 military targets. This is not an era in which there's 3:27:50.600 --> 3:27:52.320 much at all in the way of precision guided bombing, 3:27:52.520 --> 3:27:55.440 And with a B fifty two you cannot even attempt precision. 3:27:55.680 --> 3:27:59.000 You are dropping explosives blindly from like a mile up. 3:27:59.440 --> 3:28:00.920 I want to quot now from a write up by 3:28:01.000 --> 3:28:04.640 Taylor Owen and Ben Kiernan for Yale quote, A single 3:28:04.720 --> 3:28:07.440 B fifty two D big belly payload consists of up 3:28:07.440 --> 3:28:09.440 to one hundred and eight two hundred and twenty five 3:28:09.520 --> 3:28:12.920 kilogram or forty two three hundred and forty kilogram bombs, 3:28:13.040 --> 3:28:15.440 which are dropped in a target area of approximately five 3:28:15.560 --> 3:28:18.880 hundred by fifteen hundred meters. In many cases, Cambodian villages 3:28:18.879 --> 3:28:21.000 were hit with dozens of payloads over the course of 3:28:21.080 --> 3:28:24.360 several hours. The result was near total destruction. When US 3:28:24.400 --> 3:28:26.560 officials stated at the time, we had been told, as 3:28:26.640 --> 3:28:29.040 had everybody, that those carpet bombing attacks by B fifty 3:28:29.040 --> 3:28:31.840 twos were totally devastating that nothing could survive. 3:28:32.160 --> 3:28:34.160 It's like a sturgeon with eggs. 3:28:34.920 --> 3:28:39.320 Yeah, yeah, it is. It is just completely indiscriminate. Yeah, 3:28:40.400 --> 3:28:43.640 one Cambodian survivor, because people did live. As we've stated, 3:28:43.680 --> 3:28:45.960 these are never as good at killing people as the 3:28:46.040 --> 3:28:48.720 military likes to claim, which is not to minimize the horror. 3:28:48.800 --> 3:28:52.800 It's just like it's also not it doesn't work except 3:28:52.840 --> 3:28:56.000 I mean, one Cambodian survivor of US bombing described it 3:28:56.080 --> 3:28:59.640 this way. Three f one on ones bombed right center 3:28:59.680 --> 3:29:02.120 of my village, killing eleven of my family members. My 3:29:02.240 --> 3:29:04.440 father was wounded but survived. At that time, there was 3:29:04.480 --> 3:29:06.120 not a single soldier in the village or in the 3:29:06.160 --> 3:29:09.280 area around the village. Twenty seven other villages were also killed. 3:29:09.440 --> 3:29:11.160 They had to run into a ditch to hide, and 3:29:11.200 --> 3:29:12.760 then two bombs fell right into it. 3:29:13.440 --> 3:29:21.200 Oh for fucks, Yeah, it is. Yeah. You cannot you 3:29:21.280 --> 3:29:25.760 cannot exaggerate the extint to which this is indiscriminate. Yeah, 3:29:25.879 --> 3:29:28.520 it's just total madness on top of madness. Yeah, I mean, 3:29:28.640 --> 3:29:30.199 there's no Yeah. 3:29:30.320 --> 3:29:35.279 People are rightly furious about like bombing in Ukrainian cities 3:29:35.360 --> 3:29:37.960 right now. What the United States is doing in Cambodia 3:29:38.600 --> 3:29:45.480 is eliminating grid squares on a map of all life, like, yeah, which. 3:29:45.320 --> 3:29:47.400 Is a country that has nothing to fucking do. 3:29:47.879 --> 3:29:50.080 Yeah, some d these are walking through it, you know, 3:29:50.400 --> 3:29:53.119 like it's cop logic, where like, well, a guy who 3:29:53.240 --> 3:29:55.040 stole a car was seeing in this neighborhood, so we 3:29:55.120 --> 3:29:57.240 had to shoot anyone someone we saw in the window 3:29:57.320 --> 3:29:59.959 of their house, you know, like it's that kind of shit, 3:30:00.720 --> 3:30:02.360 which I guess it makes sense that cops act the 3:30:02.360 --> 3:30:04.400 way they do because this has always been the way 3:30:04.600 --> 3:30:08.200 people with guns and power act everywhere through all time. Yeah, 3:30:08.879 --> 3:30:09.400 so that's good. 3:30:09.600 --> 3:30:10.440 Yeah, Yeah. 3:30:10.920 --> 3:30:13.640 So the ostensible purpose of all this carnage which to 3:30:13.680 --> 3:30:15.879 put an end to North Vietnam's ability to wage war, 3:30:16.360 --> 3:30:19.000 but a huge factor for both Kissinger and Nixon, even 3:30:19.120 --> 3:30:22.240 larger than any actual impact on the war itself, was 3:30:22.280 --> 3:30:25.200 to preserve their personal power. Right after the bombing of 3:30:25.280 --> 3:30:29.359 cambodi began, Nixon sent Kissinger to talk with the Soviet ambassador, 3:30:29.680 --> 3:30:33.400 a fellow named Dobrynyan. In Henry Kissinger in American Power, 3:30:33.480 --> 3:30:37.160 Thomas Schwartz writes, quote Kissinger put forward a straightforward, put 3:30:37.200 --> 3:30:41.000 forth a straightforward domestic political account for Nixon's motivation and thinking, 3:30:41.320 --> 3:30:44.320 noting that Nixon is not seeking a military victory, but 3:30:44.440 --> 3:30:46.720 he cannot go down in American history as the first 3:30:46.840 --> 3:30:49.200 US president to have lost a war in which the 3:30:49.320 --> 3:30:50.240 US participated. 3:30:50.640 --> 3:30:55.640 H Oh, I mean the honest, like you'd think you'd 3:30:55.640 --> 3:30:59.640 at least lie about it. No, No, just the Oh 3:30:59.800 --> 3:31:05.840 my god, Look, it's murdering. A demicide is one thing, Gareth, 3:31:06.320 --> 3:31:11.280 but dishonesty, t christs, It's just it's disgusting. That's I 3:31:11.360 --> 3:31:15.080 feel like a parent. Look the ambassador someone Kissinger drinks with, 3:31:15.240 --> 3:31:18.000 you know, yeah, exactly lie to him. I mean, I 3:31:18.240 --> 3:31:20.680 just I would love to see a version where he 3:31:20.920 --> 3:31:23.320 just keep up an appearance. Look, he can. We just 3:31:23.480 --> 3:31:26.840 Nixon hates losing. That's what this is about. We can't 3:31:26.879 --> 3:31:29.520 think the people. Yeah, it's so. 3:31:29.760 --> 3:31:32.480 Between March of nineteen sixty nine and May of nineteen seventy, 3:31:32.560 --> 3:31:34.720 more than three thousand, six hundred and thirty rates were 3:31:34.720 --> 3:31:38.040 flown across the cam Bodium border. Each was approved personally 3:31:38.120 --> 3:31:40.920 by Henry Kissinger. The New York Times broke this story 3:31:40.959 --> 3:31:42.920 to the American public for the first time in May 3:31:43.000 --> 3:31:47.120 of nineteen sixty nine. So that's pretty good, right, like 3:31:47.200 --> 3:31:50.200 the New York Times actually is pretty shocking on this 3:31:50.440 --> 3:31:54.840 and reveals what has happened. This prompts protests, an international outcry. 3:31:55.200 --> 3:31:57.000 That's one of the frustrating things about the New York Times, 3:31:57.000 --> 3:31:58.760 because there's a million things to be angry at them 3:31:58.760 --> 3:32:00.600 all the time, and then it's like, oh, and they 3:32:00.680 --> 3:32:03.360 also were the first people to reveal this horrific crime 3:32:03.400 --> 3:32:04.720 against humanity, because. 3:32:04.720 --> 3:32:08.000 These bright spots where you're like, you fuckers, Well, it's 3:32:08.040 --> 3:32:08.840 like a broken clock. 3:32:08.879 --> 3:32:10.920 Though it's you know, every now and then, it's like 3:32:11.000 --> 3:32:13.200 a broken clock. But when it's right, it's about like 3:32:13.360 --> 3:32:18.120 the massacre of civilians on an industrial scale. But also 3:32:18.200 --> 3:32:21.400 when it's wrong, it's about the massacre of civilians. Southern investors, 3:32:23.040 --> 3:32:30.680 so mixed bag. So there's immediately protest, an international outcry. 3:32:30.879 --> 3:32:33.640 Armed students sees a building at Cornell University, which is 3:32:33.879 --> 3:32:37.200 very based. Students at Kissinger's own Harvard engage in a 3:32:37.240 --> 3:32:40.720 two week strike. Ever, pr savvy Kissinger agreed to meet 3:32:40.760 --> 3:32:43.160 with student protesters in order to prop up his image 3:32:43.200 --> 3:32:45.840 among liberals. He told them, if you come back in 3:32:45.879 --> 3:32:48.000 a year and things haven't changed, we won't have a 3:32:48.080 --> 3:32:50.680 morally defensible position. So like, hey, you know, I know 3:32:50.800 --> 3:32:52.600 it's all fucked up. I've got to fix this whole 3:32:52.680 --> 3:32:54.400 messed up. It's been going on for years. You know 3:32:54.480 --> 3:32:57.480 I'm working on it. If you come back behind this, 3:32:58.920 --> 3:33:02.240 but I figured the problem. There's a coug in here. 3:33:03.040 --> 3:33:06.840 Give me, give me one year to kill all the babies. 3:33:06.959 --> 3:33:10.320 And it also shows how fucking crazy you are, Like 3:33:10.400 --> 3:33:13.800 if you're doing this, you know you'd be like, look, 3:33:13.879 --> 3:33:15.480 hide me. I do not want to talk to the 3:33:15.600 --> 3:33:17.880 fact that he's like, I'll meet them, it's like you 3:33:17.920 --> 3:33:18.520 can make it work. 3:33:18.680 --> 3:33:24.240 Yeah, I'll just tell him what's up. Like, look, we 3:33:24.320 --> 3:33:25.960 gotta kill him, but we gotta kill people for like 3:33:26.040 --> 3:33:29.560 a year. Let's let's see how it goes. Give me 3:33:29.640 --> 3:33:31.960 a year. I'm gonna bomb the ship out of just 3:33:32.560 --> 3:33:35.040 villages and ship and kill a bunch of babies and ladies. 3:33:35.080 --> 3:33:36.520 Have no idea year. 3:33:36.879 --> 3:33:40.879 It's just nice. Nice to be back at Look at 3:33:40.920 --> 3:33:43.039 the campus. You guys changed a couple of things. 3:33:43.160 --> 3:33:43.320 Huh. 3:33:44.200 --> 3:33:47.760 You guys are just like you guys are like I 3:33:47.879 --> 3:33:48.720 heard something bad. 3:33:49.040 --> 3:33:50.360 We're just getting started. 3:33:50.680 --> 3:33:53.400 But give me a year is an amazing thing to say. 3:33:53.480 --> 3:33:56.560 What it's on this Look, yeah, this is happening. In 3:33:56.640 --> 3:33:59.840 the year, we'll revisit. It's like, yeah, no, not a year. 3:34:00.560 --> 3:34:04.840 You don't get to revisit this, you revisit we should 3:34:04.879 --> 3:34:10.560 revisit where we are in the story after this break. 3:34:11.160 --> 3:34:14.360 Yeah, let's revisit the sponsors of the show. 3:34:14.640 --> 3:34:15.440 You know who else? 3:34:15.840 --> 3:34:19.160 You know who else need a year to keep killing? 3:34:19.280 --> 3:34:19.480 Yeah? 3:34:19.640 --> 3:34:23.880 Look, if if it has not stopped the carpet bombing 3:34:23.959 --> 3:34:26.880 of Cambodia in a year, then then you can cancel 3:34:26.959 --> 3:34:27.959 your subscription, you know. 3:34:28.000 --> 3:34:32.040 Either way talking, that's menus. Those are menu options operate 3:34:32.080 --> 3:34:34.200 very much like Yeah, it's very much like a white 3:34:34.240 --> 3:34:36.120 House visit with a hell, well, do you want to 3:34:36.200 --> 3:34:37.800 make a case of deal or do you want to 3:34:37.879 --> 3:34:42.959 do this checkpiece? What do you there's options? You want 3:34:43.000 --> 3:34:55.320 to do a flood bread? Oh we're back? 3:34:55.800 --> 3:34:59.280 So uh, there's congressional inquiries about the illegal carpet bombing? 3:35:00.560 --> 3:35:02.880 What are they after? What they smell some smoke? 3:35:03.000 --> 3:35:08.560 I should also note seizing Cornell offices with arms, dope, 3:35:08.959 --> 3:35:11.400 actually sitting down with Henry Kissinger to let him talk 3:35:11.400 --> 3:35:14.080 about how things aren't really that bad, not dope. Maybe 3:35:14.200 --> 3:35:18.160 throw a stapler in his face, you know something, You 3:35:18.360 --> 3:35:20.720 you hit him really hard to hit him. You know, 3:35:21.480 --> 3:35:23.880 at least give him a shoe. You know, you've got 3:35:23.959 --> 3:35:27.440 options from a fucking baseball team at Harvard had to 3:35:27.440 --> 3:35:28.960 have been able to hit him with a fastball. 3:35:29.400 --> 3:35:32.720 There are people that if you're around you should be 3:35:33.360 --> 3:35:34.280 Cheney Bush. 3:35:34.920 --> 3:35:36.960 Get around certain people, you get close to him, you 3:35:37.000 --> 3:35:39.960 should fucking hit them, hit him hard. 3:35:40.120 --> 3:35:42.800 Look, dig Cheney is basically like a charging phone. Just 3:35:42.920 --> 3:35:45.280 unplug him at this point and see what happens. Whatever 3:35:45.440 --> 3:35:50.880 is little plugging a microwave. Next time, just have a 3:35:50.959 --> 3:35:52.280 microwaving an extension cord. 3:35:52.400 --> 3:35:52.720 Put a. 3:35:54.560 --> 3:35:56.880 Yeah, look we we we all know. 3:35:57.240 --> 3:36:03.480 Everybody here knows that eventually Cheney and and Kissinger shed 3:36:03.520 --> 3:36:06.200 their human skins and become one ball of energy. 3:36:06.879 --> 3:36:09.400 I think Kissinger currently is shedding his human skin. If 3:36:09.400 --> 3:36:11.440 you've seen him lately, it looks like he's halfway through 3:36:11.480 --> 3:36:14.840 the moor's crossed. Yeah, but the two of them merge 3:36:15.160 --> 3:36:17.480 and then you know wings, Oh yeah, I get it. 3:36:17.560 --> 3:36:19.800 So they kind of become like a like a cerebus 3:36:19.879 --> 3:36:22.959 or something like that. Yeah, then they're one. It's like, Henry, 3:36:23.040 --> 3:36:25.000 let's get out of here. Find that they got through, 3:36:26.120 --> 3:36:26.560 and then they. 3:36:28.200 --> 3:36:32.119 And they locate in nuke microbiological life on Europa. 3:36:38.000 --> 3:36:42.960 No one has done yet. I love that it is coming. 3:36:43.640 --> 3:36:46.840 So there's congressional inquiries. Kissinger gets brought before the Senate 3:36:46.879 --> 3:36:49.520 where he assures everyone that Cambodian territory is bombed by 3:36:49.560 --> 3:36:52.520 the US were all quote unpopulated. He knew this was 3:36:52.560 --> 3:36:54.959 a lie at the time. We know from briefing documents 3:36:55.040 --> 3:36:57.520 Kissinger received that he was warned into tail about such things. 3:36:57.800 --> 3:37:00.120 The breakfast bombing target he was told wasn't he but 3:37:00.320 --> 3:37:03.600 by sixteen hundred and forty civilians, dessert had three hundred 3:37:03.640 --> 3:37:04.080 and fifty. 3:37:04.920 --> 3:37:12.039 Nixon, it's just like ice cream. Yeah, you wouldn't get 3:37:12.080 --> 3:37:14.400 angry at me for bombing a baskin Robbins, would you? 3:37:14.879 --> 3:37:18.360 There are no people there, senator who hates cake. 3:37:18.879 --> 3:37:20.280 It's called the magic shell. 3:37:22.640 --> 3:37:25.960 So Nixon eventually initially blamed Kissinger for the leaks that 3:37:26.040 --> 3:37:28.200 had revealed the story of the bombing of Cambodia to 3:37:28.240 --> 3:37:31.320 the New York Times. And this is because Kissinger brings 3:37:31.360 --> 3:37:32.840 in a lot of like liberals. Like a lot of 3:37:32.959 --> 3:37:36.920 Kissinger's staff are not Republicans, are not like right wing guys. 3:37:36.959 --> 3:37:38.520 They're like Northeastern liberals. 3:37:39.640 --> 3:37:44.880 Because yeah, and he's charming. They are. 3:37:45.720 --> 3:37:47.960 But Nixon is like, it must have been one of 3:37:48.000 --> 3:37:50.040 these East Coast liberals you brought in that leaked at 3:37:50.080 --> 3:37:50.440 the Times. 3:37:50.720 --> 3:37:53.320 Heath right, so he thinks it's an extension of Kissinger, 3:37:53.400 --> 3:37:56.280 not Kissinger. No, no, no, he doesn't kissing. That would 3:37:56.280 --> 3:38:02.199 be someone's really up to something. Somebody's fuckinglogy. I won't 3:38:02.200 --> 3:38:02.920 tell you who those. 3:38:03.480 --> 3:38:06.240 But this is just like bringing Woody Allen in. He's funny, 3:38:06.360 --> 3:38:07.800 he tells you he's good. 3:38:09.120 --> 3:38:13.800 This is some good context on how comprehensively shitty a 3:38:13.879 --> 3:38:17.160 person Kissinger is, how incapable of real loyalty he is. 3:38:17.840 --> 3:38:20.640 Thomas Schwartz writes that in order to preserve his own position, 3:38:20.760 --> 3:38:23.200 Kissinger had to throw large numbers of his team members 3:38:23.320 --> 3:38:26.720 under the bus quote. Kissinger called FBI Director J. Edgar 3:38:26.720 --> 3:38:28.400 Hoover and gave him a list of those staffers in 3:38:28.480 --> 3:38:31.000 his office with access to the information, telling Hoover that 3:38:31.080 --> 3:38:33.560 he would destroy whoever did this if we can find him, 3:38:33.600 --> 3:38:35.600 no matter where he is. Among the first to be 3:38:36.040 --> 3:38:39.680 wiretapped was Morton Halperin, who had helped devise the NSC system. 3:38:39.959 --> 3:38:43.400 Helm At Sonenfeld, Kissinger's fellow German Jewish refugee, and even 3:38:43.440 --> 3:38:46.600 Winston Lord, the man Kissinger later called his conscience on 3:38:46.760 --> 3:38:50.199 foreign policy issues. And all there would be seventeen FBI 3:38:50.320 --> 3:38:53.440 wiretaps up by the White House, thirteen on government employees, 3:38:53.480 --> 3:38:56.920 including Kissinger's staff, and four on newsmen, among them Kissinger's 3:38:56.920 --> 3:38:59.080 British friend who was a reporter for the London Times. 3:38:59.240 --> 3:39:03.160 It's a media or raw. It's like American idol level 3:39:03.600 --> 3:39:09.320 sudden impact as far as because I mean, as you 3:39:09.480 --> 3:39:13.600 pointed to, he wasn't like this crazy. I mean he 3:39:13.720 --> 3:39:18.120 was crazy, but now it's like he's just it's on roids. 3:39:18.640 --> 3:39:20.800 The level that he the level he's gotten to, and 3:39:20.920 --> 3:39:23.640 the level of insanity that he's gotten to is really 3:39:24.720 --> 3:39:27.480 even for this country historic. 3:39:27.959 --> 3:39:31.640 Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. And just like it's great 3:39:31.959 --> 3:39:35.280 he is he's not capable of even like treating his 3:39:35.560 --> 3:39:39.840 very loyal friends. Well, so, yeah, this would come back 3:39:39.840 --> 3:39:41.480 to bite Kissinger and Nixon and the ass in the 3:39:41.560 --> 3:39:43.640 not too distant future. But we're gonna take a while 3:39:43.720 --> 3:39:45.520 to get to that because there's a lot in between 3:39:46.400 --> 3:39:49.400 there and now. So let's return to Cambodia. It is 3:39:49.480 --> 3:39:52.480 worth noting that Operation Menu achieved nothing. It was useless 3:39:52.480 --> 3:39:55.160 in a military sense. The enemy command and control facilities 3:39:55.160 --> 3:39:57.960 they were ostensibly trying to destroy. We're never take it out. 3:39:58.440 --> 3:40:00.959 And it was useless for a negotiating standpoint because North 3:40:01.040 --> 3:40:07.039 Vietnam did not bulge, budge bulge, They post baby. 3:40:08.640 --> 3:40:08.880 They have. 3:40:09.040 --> 3:40:12.920 Nineteen seventy, Nixon incited to escalate again by ordering a 3:40:13.040 --> 3:40:16.119 ground invasion of Cambodia. He announced this with a typically 3:40:16.200 --> 3:40:18.720 unhinged speech. And again this is public because at this point, 3:40:18.760 --> 3:40:20.520 you know, the New York Times is revealed things. So 3:40:21.240 --> 3:40:23.440 we live in an age of anarchy. We see mindless 3:40:23.440 --> 3:40:25.760 attacks and all the great institutions which have been created 3:40:25.800 --> 3:40:29.960 by free civilizations in the past five hundred years. It's 3:40:30.080 --> 3:40:35.760 happening because kids are like protesting and colleges yeah, like yeah. 3:40:36.080 --> 3:40:37.879 He framed it as a test of the nation's quote 3:40:37.920 --> 3:40:41.400 will and character. Serious. Now he's right. 3:40:41.600 --> 3:40:44.640 When one of his staff members balkman, Kissinger's staff members 3:40:44.720 --> 3:40:48.160 balked at plans to illegally invade Cambody with ground troops troops, 3:40:48.200 --> 3:40:51.400 Henry told him, quote, your views represent the cowardice of 3:40:51.440 --> 3:40:56.080 the Eastern establishment. This staff member, William Watts, tried to 3:40:56.200 --> 3:40:59.720 physically attack Henry Kissinger who hid behind his desk. 3:41:00.160 --> 3:41:03.240 Ah, it's just like that, if he was only able 3:41:03.320 --> 3:41:06.360 to just kill him. What imagine the ripple, if only 3:41:06.400 --> 3:41:10.160 there'd been a sharper letter opener on the desk, put 3:41:10.200 --> 3:41:11.640 it like a pen through his neck. 3:41:11.959 --> 3:41:16.080 Yeah, it's very funny that Kissinger did at some point 3:41:16.160 --> 3:41:18.879 have to hide behind a desk to stop his staff from. 3:41:18.879 --> 3:41:22.720 So strong bombing everywhere. And then he's hiding under his desk. 3:41:23.360 --> 3:41:24.000 The relax. 3:41:24.480 --> 3:41:28.360 So this staff member, uh Watts resigns right after this, 3:41:28.520 --> 3:41:31.840 And when staff member Anthony Lake echoes Wats' concerns, Kissinger, 3:41:31.959 --> 3:41:35.400 presumably still hiding behind his desk, calls Lake not manly 3:41:35.520 --> 3:41:38.240 enough to do what was necessary, and so Lake resigns too. 3:41:39.680 --> 3:41:43.720 Yeah. Bold words from behind the hiding behind a desk. Yeah, 3:41:43.840 --> 3:41:44.600 big tough guy. 3:41:44.800 --> 3:41:47.959 Four days after Nixon's speech announcing the invasion of Cambodia, 3:41:48.080 --> 3:41:50.400 four students were shot dead at Kent State during a 3:41:50.480 --> 3:41:53.960 protest over the invasion. Nine more were wounded. Two weeks later, 3:41:54.120 --> 3:41:56.840 at Jackson State, police shot into a crowd of black 3:41:56.879 --> 3:41:59.920 students protesting the war. Two were killed and twelve wounded. 3:42:00.680 --> 3:42:05.080 The invasion prompted some of the first consequences and only consequences. Kissinger, ever, 3:42:05.200 --> 3:42:09.480 faced stern rebukes from fancy academics he respected. A group 3:42:09.520 --> 3:42:11.640 of them, men who had often acted as his brain 3:42:11.720 --> 3:42:15.199 trust and advised him and other presidential advisers on issues, 3:42:15.560 --> 3:42:18.440 marched into his office after the invasion. One of the men, 3:42:18.720 --> 3:42:21.560 Thomas Shelling, opened by saying that he supposed he should 3:42:21.600 --> 3:42:24.720 explain who they were. Kissinger responded with confusion that I 3:42:24.840 --> 3:42:27.120 know who you are. You're all good friends from Harvard. 3:42:27.760 --> 3:42:31.600 Next from Niall Ferguson's Kissinger no, said Shelling. We're a 3:42:31.640 --> 3:42:34.120 group of people who have completely lost confidence in the 3:42:34.160 --> 3:42:36.480 ability of the White House to conduct our foreign policy, 3:42:36.720 --> 3:42:38.440 and we have come to tell you so we are 3:42:38.520 --> 3:42:41.240 no longer at your disposal as personal advisors. Each of 3:42:41.320 --> 3:42:43.959 them then proceeded to berate him, taking five minutes apiece. 3:42:44.840 --> 3:42:50.640 Now sound at this point you've seen from Rudy when 3:42:50.680 --> 3:42:52.040 they all hand in there. 3:42:52.720 --> 3:42:56.640 Yeah for to get ready to play. It's like that 3:42:57.280 --> 3:42:58.039 and stories. 3:42:58.760 --> 3:43:02.240 If you have oh god, what's his fucking name, I'm 3:43:02.240 --> 3:43:03.880 spacing the West Wing, motherfucker. 3:43:06.040 --> 3:43:10.280 If Aaron is a description of him. 3:43:11.440 --> 3:43:13.560 If Aaron Sorkin is writing this, this is like the 3:43:13.640 --> 3:43:16.840 heroic moment where like the conscience of the American ruling 3:43:16.879 --> 3:43:19.080 class that comes in is like, this is not right, Henry, 3:43:19.360 --> 3:43:23.000 and really that's bullshit, that's not what's happening. And Ferguson 3:43:23.080 --> 3:43:25.040 goes on to note that these guys were kind of 3:43:25.080 --> 3:43:29.120 full of shit. They're all Washington insiders. They have Shelling 3:43:29.200 --> 3:43:33.520 advised LBJ to massively escalade violence throughout the war in Vietnam. 3:43:34.240 --> 3:43:36.480 Ferguson continues, and this is his explanation of what they 3:43:36.520 --> 3:43:39.680 were really doing. Quote for these men publicly breaking with Kissinger, 3:43:39.760 --> 3:43:42.520 with journalists briefed in advance about the breach was a 3:43:42.600 --> 3:43:46.000 form of self exculpation, not to say, an insurance policy. 3:43:46.040 --> 3:43:48.600 As student radicals back on the Harvard campus ran riot. 3:43:48.920 --> 3:43:51.000 When Newstat told the Crimson, I think it's safe to 3:43:51.040 --> 3:43:53.879 say we're afraid, he did not specify of what others 3:43:53.920 --> 3:43:56.840 were more candid, as Shelling put it, if Cambodia succeeds, 3:43:56.879 --> 3:43:59.280 it will be disaster, not just because my Harvard office 3:43:59.280 --> 3:44:00.920 may be burned down when I get home, but it 3:44:00.920 --> 3:44:03.680 would even be a disaster in the administration zone terms. 3:44:04.400 --> 3:44:10.640 So it's amazing it fuck sake, Yeah, I mean, honestly, 3:44:10.720 --> 3:44:12.520 that's what this happens on the dollop a lot where 3:44:12.520 --> 3:44:14.640 I'm like, all right, we got a hero, and then 3:44:14.680 --> 3:44:16.680 immediately I'm like more villains. God damn it. 3:44:16.760 --> 3:44:18.680 I mean to the extent that there's some heroes, the 3:44:18.800 --> 3:44:21.640 kids on these campuses who are actually like lighting buildings 3:44:21.680 --> 3:44:25.039 on fire and destroying things. They do make Henry Kissinger 3:44:25.160 --> 3:44:28.240 and his academic friends afraid and uncomfortable briefly, which is 3:44:28.280 --> 3:44:29.680 more than anyone else does. 3:44:30.160 --> 3:44:33.160 Yeah, and I mean this would kind of be the 3:44:33.320 --> 3:44:36.440 last time that that even happens, really, right, that like 3:44:36.879 --> 3:44:40.039 that people in that level of power do feel any 3:44:40.120 --> 3:44:43.119 sort of like threat from the So the regular folk. 3:44:43.120 --> 3:44:46.160 Yeah, credit where it's due. They are the only people 3:44:46.240 --> 3:44:48.760 that I'm aware of who made Henry Kissinger briefly feel 3:44:48.840 --> 3:44:50.720 something that vaguely resembles shame. 3:44:51.000 --> 3:44:51.480 So emotion. 3:44:52.000 --> 3:44:54.200 Yeah, good, like seriously good work. 3:44:55.640 --> 3:44:58.720 But of course, you know that doesn't stop anything, obviously, 3:44:59.440 --> 3:45:02.440 you know he's got of course, he's got many desks. Yeah. 3:45:03.320 --> 3:45:06.240 So Cambodia falls into chaos as a result of the 3:45:06.840 --> 3:45:09.080 as most places would when bombed on this level. Right, 3:45:09.320 --> 3:45:12.720 hard to maintain a state with this level of things exploding. 3:45:13.800 --> 3:45:16.959 It is unclear precisely how many people die in Operation Menu, 3:45:17.080 --> 3:45:20.160 the subsequent invasion of Cambodia and the bombing campaigns that followed. 3:45:20.520 --> 3:45:24.040 The low estimate is fifty thousand. The high estimates are 3:45:24.040 --> 3:45:26.480 one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand. Thirty to 3:45:26.600 --> 3:45:29.600 fifty thousand. Lotions die in the bombing campaign, which makes 3:45:29.640 --> 3:45:33.119 the sparsely populated nation the most densely bombed place on Earth. 3:45:33.560 --> 3:45:36.040 Thirty percent of these bombs failed to detonate, and in 3:45:36.080 --> 3:45:38.400 the years since the bombing, another twenty thousand people have 3:45:38.520 --> 3:45:41.600 died from the estimated eighty million bombs left in the soil. 3:45:41.920 --> 3:45:45.160 Forty percent of the victims or children. One AID worker 3:45:45.240 --> 3:45:47.520 set of the situation. There are parts of law where 3:45:47.560 --> 3:45:50.080 there is literally no free space. There are no areas 3:45:50.120 --> 3:45:51.920 that have not been bombed. And when you are in 3:45:52.000 --> 3:45:54.000 the villages now, you still see the evidence of that. 3:45:54.400 --> 3:45:57.000 You see the bomb craters, You still see an unbelievable 3:45:57.000 --> 3:45:59.240 amount of metal and wreckage and an exploded ordinance just 3:45:59.320 --> 3:46:02.640 lying around in and it's still injuring and killing people today. 3:46:02.720 --> 3:46:03.400 What a legacy. 3:46:03.640 --> 3:46:06.240 Now, If any of this concerned Nixon and Kissinger. 3:46:06.360 --> 3:46:08.600 I would like you to just throw out there that 3:46:09.400 --> 3:46:12.040 I do feel that gardening should be more dangerous. 3:46:12.320 --> 3:46:15.560 So yes, and nobody's in disagreement about that. And we 3:46:15.680 --> 3:46:17.880 have enough bombs in this country to make gardening a 3:46:17.920 --> 3:46:18.720 lot more dangerous. 3:46:19.720 --> 3:46:24.080 Yeah, four fucking beans. 3:46:25.280 --> 3:46:27.360 If there's not a one in three chance digging up 3:46:27.360 --> 3:46:29.879 a potato loses you a goddamn arm, you're not really 3:46:29.920 --> 3:46:30.480 a gardener. 3:46:34.320 --> 3:46:36.680 So how are the tomatoes? Ken's dead? 3:46:41.959 --> 3:46:44.720 If any of this concerned Nixon and Kissinger, we have 3:46:44.879 --> 3:46:47.240 no evidence of it. We know that in nineteen seventy two, 3:46:47.360 --> 3:46:50.680 Nixon asked how many did we kill in LAO, and 3:46:50.800 --> 3:46:54.320 the Press Secretary ron Ziegler responded with a guess, maybe 3:46:54.400 --> 3:46:59.160 ten thousand fifteen. Kissinger agreed in motion in the lotion 3:46:59.400 --> 3:47:02.720 thing killed about ten fifteen. This is how they talk about. 3:47:02.840 --> 3:47:06.520 It's the showcase showdown three to five, nine eleven's worth 3:47:06.520 --> 3:47:06.879 of people. 3:47:06.879 --> 3:47:10.520 I mean, it's the way you talking about. Did you 3:47:10.600 --> 3:47:12.080 get like one bag of grapes or two? 3:47:12.400 --> 3:47:13.920 Yeah? I think I had two bags of grapes. 3:47:14.120 --> 3:47:16.040 Oh, what's the cover fee to get into that? To 3:47:16.080 --> 3:47:18.039 get into that concert? It's like ten or fifteen bucks? 3:47:18.120 --> 3:47:18.320 Yeah? 3:47:18.600 --> 3:47:22.280 Yeah, except for this is they're just complete and total 3:47:22.320 --> 3:47:23.560 fucking psychopaths and. 3:47:23.600 --> 3:47:25.640 They're off by a half at least. You know, it's 3:47:25.680 --> 3:47:29.240 hard to get accurate. You know, death tolls here and 3:47:29.320 --> 3:47:31.360 the bombs were not the only thing left behind by 3:47:31.400 --> 3:47:35.880 the campaign that Kissinger orchestrated. Greg Brandon Wrights defoliation chemicals 3:47:35.920 --> 3:47:38.240 did their work just over a two week period April 3:47:38.280 --> 3:47:41.440 eighteenth to May second, nineteen sixty nine. US dropped agent 3:47:41.520 --> 3:47:44.720 Orange caused significant damage. Andrew Wells Dang, who has long 3:47:44.800 --> 3:47:47.560 been involved in relief aid to Southeast Asia rights. Both 3:47:47.600 --> 3:47:50.320 the US government and independent inspection teams confirmed that one 3:47:50.400 --> 3:47:53.879 hundred and seventy three thousand acres were sprayed seven percent 3:47:53.920 --> 3:47:57.080 of Kompong Cham Province, twenty four thousand, seven hundred of 3:47:57.120 --> 3:48:00.960 them seriously affected. The rubber plantations totaled approximately one third 3:48:00.959 --> 3:48:03.680 of Cambodia's total and represented a loss of twelve percent 3:48:03.760 --> 3:48:06.840 of the country's export earnings. Washington agreed to pay over 3:48:06.920 --> 3:48:09.800 twelve million in reparations, but Kissinger tried to defer the 3:48:09.879 --> 3:48:12.680 payment to fiscal year nineteen seventy two, when the money 3:48:12.720 --> 3:48:15.600 could be paid without a specific without a special request 3:48:15.879 --> 3:48:18.960 that would have revealed US cross border activity. Every effort 3:48:19.040 --> 3:48:21.680 Kissinger road should be made to avoid the necessity for 3:48:21.720 --> 3:48:24.560 a special budgetary request to provide funds to debate his claim. 3:48:24.840 --> 3:48:27.800 Oh my god, look, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're going 3:48:27.879 --> 3:48:28.400 to get the money. 3:48:28.440 --> 3:48:29.160 You're gonna get the money. 3:48:29.200 --> 3:48:29.960 You're gonna get the money. 3:48:30.080 --> 3:48:31.480 The money. It's just gonna take a lot. I just 3:48:31.560 --> 3:48:33.560 need to it's a thing. Move. 3:48:33.680 --> 3:48:35.720 Yeah, I need to move some stuff around. Just but 3:48:35.800 --> 3:48:36.440 you're gonna get it. 3:48:36.720 --> 3:48:38.120 It's fine. I don't know. 3:48:38.520 --> 3:48:40.080 Let's just keep it on the on the d L, 3:48:40.120 --> 3:48:40.600 you know what I mean. 3:48:40.680 --> 3:48:42.040 Yeah, it's yeah, it is. 3:48:42.160 --> 3:48:46.080 Hecret Service wasn't calling Trump Agent Orange by the way, Uh, 3:48:46.680 --> 3:48:49.080 if that wasn't his code name, that's a disappointment, that is. 3:48:49.240 --> 3:48:50.800 I mean, yeah, there's a lot of reasons to be 3:48:50.879 --> 3:48:53.080 disappointed in the Secret Service, but that is one of them. 3:48:53.360 --> 3:48:54.240 That's my mom one. 3:48:54.800 --> 3:48:58.160 So the loss of life and economic damage caused Cambodia 3:48:58.200 --> 3:49:00.720 to spiral into chaos, or at least was a factor. 3:49:00.760 --> 3:49:03.000 Other stuff's going on. We have a couple episodes about 3:49:03.040 --> 3:49:05.560 King Notre Dam Sahanok, who is a real piece of shit. 3:49:05.640 --> 3:49:08.080 In the King of Cambodia. In this period, a lot's happening, 3:49:08.960 --> 3:49:11.280 but unrest by the caused by the bombings and the 3:49:11.320 --> 3:49:14.600 economic devastation helped to spark a right wing coup, which 3:49:14.680 --> 3:49:16.640 was likely orchestrated with CIA help. 3:49:16.480 --> 3:49:19.040 And US with the direct input it. You guys are 3:49:19.120 --> 3:49:21.520 looking to change things up here. We've got a plan, 3:49:21.760 --> 3:49:24.240 We got an idea. Well do no matter what happened, 3:49:24.240 --> 3:49:27.960 someone bomb you will Why don't we provide some help? Yeah, exactly. 3:49:28.120 --> 3:49:30.720 And the coup, you know, overthrows the king, who then 3:49:31.160 --> 3:49:32.520 starts backing the. 3:49:32.600 --> 3:49:35.360 Khmer Rouge then wins. They're great. 3:49:35.720 --> 3:49:38.360 Yeah, their counter revolution against the right wing coup, and 3:49:38.440 --> 3:49:41.080 this leads to the establishment of Polpot's Khmer Rouge government. 3:49:41.960 --> 3:49:42.160 Yay. 3:49:43.200 --> 3:49:45.840 Once the Rouge took over in nineteen seventy five, Nixon 3:49:45.920 --> 3:49:49.160 had left office. Kissinger, though, was still in power. In 3:49:49.240 --> 3:49:52.120 November of nineteen seventy five, he told Thailand's foreign minister, 3:49:52.560 --> 3:49:54.520 you should also tell the Cambodians that we will be 3:49:54.560 --> 3:49:56.800 friends with them. They are murderous thugs, but we won't 3:49:56.840 --> 3:49:58.920 let that stand in our way. We are prepared to 3:49:59.040 --> 3:49:59.800 improve relations. 3:50:00.000 --> 3:50:02.280 That's what I mean. Yeah, I mean we get it. 3:50:02.600 --> 3:50:07.320 We get a Kissinger. I mean my people were I 3:50:07.400 --> 3:50:10.520 get it. Murderous thugs. I'm all about murderous thugs. I 3:50:10.640 --> 3:50:13.520 think we could find common ground. This man wants to 3:50:13.640 --> 3:50:14.680 kill a million people. 3:50:14.760 --> 3:50:16.200 I think that is a cute start. 3:50:17.320 --> 3:50:20.400 I've got adorable. In nineteen eighty. 3:50:20.240 --> 3:50:22.680 Eight, when questioned on this, Kissinger explained that quote, the 3:50:22.760 --> 3:50:25.560 Tie and the Chinese did not want a Vietnamese dominated 3:50:25.640 --> 3:50:28.280 into China. We didn't want the Vietnamese to dominate. I 3:50:28.280 --> 3:50:30.160 don't believe we did anything for pole Pot, but I 3:50:30.200 --> 3:50:32.680 suspect we closed our eyes when some others did something 3:50:32.760 --> 3:50:36.560 for pole Pot. Of course, the United States attempted at 3:50:36.600 --> 3:50:39.080 least to provide direct military aid to the Khmer rouge 3:50:39.080 --> 3:50:41.000 in order to help them oppose Vietnam, and there's a 3:50:41.040 --> 3:50:43.400 lot of debate and uncertainty. It seems that very little 3:50:43.400 --> 3:50:45.400 if any actually made it to the Khmer, but this 3:50:45.520 --> 3:50:49.120 is primarily because of difficulty getting shipped into Cambodia at 3:50:49.160 --> 3:50:52.560 this point in time. But it is fair to say 3:50:52.640 --> 3:50:55.440 that Kissinger and Nixon's actions were crucial in creating the 3:50:55.520 --> 3:50:58.600 circumstances that brought Polepot to power, and once he was 3:50:58.680 --> 3:51:01.760 in charge in massacring people, they tacitly supported his government 3:51:01.800 --> 3:51:04.440 because they thought it would styley the Vietnamese. In total, 3:51:04.480 --> 3:51:06.760 from the killing that started when the US bombing rates began, 3:51:07.040 --> 3:51:09.280 to the people killed by Polpot's regime, to those who 3:51:09.320 --> 3:51:12.040 died fighting in the fighting with Vietnam that finally brought 3:51:12.040 --> 3:51:15.480 the rouge to an end. One point seven million Cambodians died, 3:51:15.520 --> 3:51:17.520 more than a quarter of the population of the country 3:51:17.560 --> 3:51:17.960 pre war. 3:51:18.160 --> 3:51:25.800 It's it's so incredible how their ideology of just communism bad. 3:51:26.080 --> 3:51:28.320 They're like, well, communism will kill a bunch of people, 3:51:28.400 --> 3:51:29.080 and they're just. 3:51:29.360 --> 3:51:33.320 Fucking everything they can to say people well. 3:51:33.360 --> 3:51:36.560 And it's also like they don't even really believe communists 3:51:36.560 --> 3:51:39.080 because the Khmara or communists hell, and they're fine with 3:51:39.200 --> 3:51:41.240 working with them because it's Vietnam is the ones who 3:51:41.280 --> 3:51:41.640 beat them. 3:51:41.640 --> 3:51:42.840 And so they're angry at Vietnam. 3:51:42.920 --> 3:51:46.480 And it's like and Vietnam fights Cambodia, Like it's not 3:51:46.760 --> 3:51:51.920 there's no these people don't believe in anything. Yeah, there's 3:51:51.960 --> 3:51:55.320 not good lessons to take from this, but no, it's 3:51:55.480 --> 3:51:58.280 it's really someone should have stabbed Henry Kissinger, that's for sure. 3:51:58.720 --> 3:52:00.880 Oh I stabbed him. 3:52:01.280 --> 3:52:03.360 Yeah, there's so many people we should have stabbed. 3:52:03.520 --> 3:52:06.480 I mean there's so many, but Kissinger's. 3:52:06.000 --> 3:52:09.480 Way up there and in this story right, like we're not. Obviously, 3:52:09.560 --> 3:52:11.680 you can't blame all of the deaths in Cambodia on 3:52:11.760 --> 3:52:13.680 Kissinger a lot, just like you can't blame all of 3:52:13.760 --> 3:52:16.200 the deaths in Vietnam on Kissinger and Nixon, but like 3:52:16.440 --> 3:52:18.920 just so many lead to which he's central to a 3:52:18.960 --> 3:52:21.160 lot of the worst actions in these wars. 3:52:21.200 --> 3:52:23.640 Well, And so the I I keep thinking about the 3:52:23.680 --> 3:52:27.840 point you made in the last episode where it you know, 3:52:28.360 --> 3:52:32.480 the idea that LBJ, that that he broke up the 3:52:32.680 --> 3:52:36.440 LBJ plan to sort of end all of this, and 3:52:36.880 --> 3:52:40.480 just for political reasons made that not happen, and that 3:52:40.960 --> 3:52:43.960 just that the avenue that we are down now is 3:52:44.240 --> 3:52:47.520 just I mean, it's unconscionable. 3:52:47.640 --> 3:52:51.760 And there's there's so many also we also besides just 3:52:52.000 --> 3:52:58.560 the straight bombings, we destabilize areas, we change the trajectory. 3:52:58.720 --> 3:53:00.760 Look putin is our fucking doing. 3:53:01.000 --> 3:53:05.400 Yeah, we fucking took out the government, We did Yelsen, 3:53:05.520 --> 3:53:06.080 all that shit. 3:53:06.200 --> 3:53:08.160 That was a fucking I'm not gonna let you sit 3:53:08.240 --> 3:53:10.760 here and touch shit on Yeltsen. He was very in 3:53:10.880 --> 3:53:12.280 control of what he was doing to it. 3:53:12.560 --> 3:53:14.440 I definitely knew what was happening. 3:53:14.560 --> 3:53:16.800 It wasn't like having a bottle of sphar enough in charge. 3:53:16.960 --> 3:53:17.840 Nothing that happened. 3:53:18.360 --> 3:53:21.120 Everything we get involved with turns into a fuck pie. 3:53:21.200 --> 3:53:24.360 I mean, it's just we just create chaos. 3:53:24.720 --> 3:53:26.000 Yeah, we're murder midas. 3:53:26.680 --> 3:53:29.440 It's this, it's this thing where we're talking about like 3:53:29.520 --> 3:53:33.280 how how insane it is that Kissinger is micromanaging these bombings. 3:53:33.640 --> 3:53:36.040 Which is not to say that like the military men 3:53:36.080 --> 3:53:39.560 who were doing it before were particularly better. And this 3:53:39.680 --> 3:53:41.920 is the problem that like we're going to have, you know, 3:53:42.400 --> 3:53:44.680 with Ukraine and whatnot too. It's just that like, well, 3:53:44.720 --> 3:53:46.880 now we have all of these people who are supposed 3:53:46.920 --> 3:53:48.880 to be are the people we call experts who are 3:53:48.920 --> 3:53:50.960 now going to be doing things, and like if you 3:53:51.080 --> 3:53:53.960 actually look at their resumes, it is not a wide 3:53:54.080 --> 3:53:57.240 ranging history of successes, you know. And it is the 3:53:57.320 --> 3:53:59.200 same thing with Russia. You could look at like Russian 3:53:59.200 --> 3:54:02.040 intervention a bunch places. It's a nightmare. The kind of 3:54:02.120 --> 3:54:04.960 people who are in a position to make calls when 3:54:05.000 --> 3:54:09.440 the conflicts get to this level are always ghoules, and 3:54:09.520 --> 3:54:14.160 they're always bad at anything but causing devastation. And that's 3:54:14.400 --> 3:54:17.200 why all of this keeps happening, because none of these 3:54:17.200 --> 3:54:18.360 people are any good at it. 3:54:18.560 --> 3:54:22.200 And no one gets punished and nobody ever mean. 3:54:22.360 --> 3:54:25.360 Yeah, the fact that Bill Crystal is still saying what 3:54:25.480 --> 3:54:28.000 anybody do anywhere in the world, You're like, what in. 3:54:28.040 --> 3:54:31.960 The fuck is going on? Guess who gets to go, 3:54:32.200 --> 3:54:36.120 who goes away? Who goes away favoring his tweets? 3:54:36.520 --> 3:54:39.400 I imagine I know somebody who lost their job at 3:54:39.440 --> 3:54:42.200 a grocery store because they got arrested protesting for like 3:54:42.440 --> 3:54:44.080 protesting against police violence. 3:54:45.480 --> 3:54:50.560 Meanwhile, meanwhile, Bill Crystal's like a guest on an media show. 3:54:50.680 --> 3:54:56.240 Yeah, it's it's Bill. What do you think I mean, Yeah, 3:54:56.440 --> 3:54:59.480 it's it's frustrating. Every now and then, far too seldom 3:54:59.560 --> 3:55:02.560 you get a story like that billionaire Russian arms dealer 3:55:02.600 --> 3:55:05.160 who's yacht got partially sunk. But there's like three of 3:55:05.240 --> 3:55:09.640 those stories for every thousand kissingers. Yeah, and they don't 3:55:09.680 --> 3:55:11.600 ever mean anything because that guy can afford to fix 3:55:11.640 --> 3:55:12.280 his fucking yacht. 3:55:12.440 --> 3:55:15.920 So, yes, when they were they were egging Bezos's boat, 3:55:15.920 --> 3:55:18.200 when when he was getting that bridge torn down, Yeah, 3:55:18.280 --> 3:55:23.480 you're like, I mean people, Yeah, it's like, yeah, he's 3:55:23.520 --> 3:55:25.880 gonna have someone hoes it down, and that he's fine. 3:55:27.600 --> 3:55:30.880 You look, yachts burn. We know yes, we've it. 3:55:31.040 --> 3:55:34.240 They burn, that's the thing. Yachts burn, and so do 3:55:34.440 --> 3:55:37.040 Bill Crystals. Bill Crystal, I think. 3:55:36.880 --> 3:55:39.760 It's like anals. No, yeah, actually when you burn and 3:55:39.800 --> 3:55:41.360 he just turns into a few crystals. 3:55:43.400 --> 3:55:43.440 So. 3:55:43.800 --> 3:55:47.200 Greg Grandon, author of Kissinger's Shadow, sees the bombing campaign 3:55:47.240 --> 3:55:49.480 in Cambodia and Lao is the terminal phase in what 3:55:49.600 --> 3:55:52.760 he calls the crack up of America's domestic consensus, which 3:55:52.760 --> 3:55:56.520 had begun under Johnson. Kissinger considered conditions in the country 3:55:56.560 --> 3:55:58.400 at the time of Kent State to be quote near 3:55:58.520 --> 3:56:02.000 civil war conditions. The paranoia Nixon had felt led him 3:56:02.000 --> 3:56:05.160 to push for illegal expansions of domestic surveillance, which eventually 3:56:05.240 --> 3:56:08.240 led to his ouster from office. The Senate investigation into 3:56:08.280 --> 3:56:11.560 the Watergate scandal concluded quote Kent State marked a turning 3:56:11.600 --> 3:56:14.960 point for Nixon, the beginning of his downhill slide towards Watergate. 3:56:15.800 --> 3:56:19.200 Nixon grew increasingly unhinged, which is a story for another time. 3:56:21.960 --> 3:56:23.320 Nixon's starting to lose a gang. 3:56:23.520 --> 3:56:25.480 It is worth noting that for all of the things 3:56:25.520 --> 3:56:28.320 happening at this point, Nixon is as a rule, anytime 3:56:28.360 --> 3:56:31.440 I quote him and Kissinger talking, Nixon is as a rule, 3:56:31.760 --> 3:56:34.200 drunker than you have ever been. Like then you have 3:56:34.440 --> 3:56:37.320 ever been. I don't care how drunk you've gotten, you 3:56:37.400 --> 3:56:41.760 have never gotten. Nixon in the White House hammered. So, 3:56:42.920 --> 3:56:46.000 with Kissinger's help, Nixon cooks up a plan to pursue 3:56:46.000 --> 3:56:49.280 an arms control treaty in order to discredit his political rivals. 3:56:49.600 --> 3:56:52.040 Kissinger agreed that attacking the left was the right way 3:56:52.080 --> 3:56:54.760 to distract from the disaster they'd created in Southeast Asia. 3:56:55.040 --> 3:56:57.440 He told his boss, we've got to break the back 3:56:57.520 --> 3:57:01.200 of this generation of Democratic leaders. Had responded an agreement, 3:57:01.400 --> 3:57:03.560 we've got to destroy the confidence of the people in 3:57:03.600 --> 3:57:07.160 the American establishment. Good news on that one, buddy. Yeah, 3:57:07.640 --> 3:57:13.080 I mean, you know what a rare swish and he's 3:57:13.160 --> 3:57:15.200 drunk and he's right. Yeah, that is a hole in 3:57:15.320 --> 3:57:19.880 one for you, my friend. No nuts so prescient. 3:57:20.080 --> 3:57:20.720 Yeah, yeah. 3:57:20.960 --> 3:57:23.320 Re Election in nineteen seventy two was always going to 3:57:23.360 --> 3:57:26.320 be dicey for Nixon and Kissinger. Nixon's plan was the 3:57:26.400 --> 3:57:30.240 infamous Southern strategy, cultivating racial resentment in order to turn 3:57:30.360 --> 3:57:33.200 whites into a reliable Republican voting block. There's a lot 3:57:33.240 --> 3:57:35.680 to be said about this. Obviously, we were just kind 3:57:35.680 --> 3:57:37.840 of breezing past it. But part of the strategy, part 3:57:37.840 --> 3:57:40.560 of his strategy for doing this, to get these Southern 3:57:40.600 --> 3:57:43.320 whites on his side, was to continue carpet bombing huge 3:57:43.400 --> 3:57:46.320 chunks of Southeast Asia, even though this had no impact 3:57:46.400 --> 3:57:49.240 on the war's course, and he knew it. Grandon described 3:57:49.280 --> 3:57:52.440 the continued bombing as quote blood tribute paid to the 3:57:52.480 --> 3:57:55.240 growing power of the American right, and. 3:57:55.400 --> 3:57:59.720 As yeah, just and I mean it is like I mean, you, 3:58:00.200 --> 3:58:03.120 it's what our politics is now, which is just constantly 3:58:03.880 --> 3:58:06.520 the optics on how to get re elected. It's just 3:58:06.600 --> 3:58:08.840 the number crunch on how do you get reelected by 3:58:08.920 --> 3:58:12.520 doing things illegally or you know, shifting priority whatever it is. 3:58:13.080 --> 3:58:17.840 Butasking you, yeah, yeah, whatever it is. I mean, you know, 3:58:18.320 --> 3:58:21.160 like we all know that war helps pull numbers, so 3:58:21.840 --> 3:58:25.040 well some of them do. Yeah, right, But I mean 3:58:25.120 --> 3:58:27.160 in the in the short term, it seems like it's 3:58:27.240 --> 3:58:29.520 it's a short there's a short term gain to be made, 3:58:29.680 --> 3:58:30.320 certainly if. 3:58:30.240 --> 3:58:34.440 You're on the right, for sure. Yeah, And it's it 3:58:34.840 --> 3:58:38.320 is worth noting because I always had this idea, even 3:58:38.720 --> 3:58:41.600 at past the point where I stopped believing Henry Kissinger 3:58:41.800 --> 3:58:45.880 was a hero, that he was doing what he was 3:58:45.960 --> 3:58:48.760 doing in Southeast Asia because there were like very specific 3:58:48.920 --> 3:58:51.240 wonky things he believed about the conduct of the war 3:58:51.360 --> 3:58:52.960 and how to win it. It was just like willing 3:58:53.040 --> 3:58:55.880 to do these horrible things. But no, they know what's 3:58:55.920 --> 3:58:57.880 not winning the war. This is for votes. 3:58:58.280 --> 3:59:03.200 Yeah, and Kissinger they yeah, So, I mean you're basically 3:59:03.320 --> 3:59:09.000 just saying it is just a white supremacist thing. 3:59:09.160 --> 3:59:13.680 They're killing people of color to make whites in the 3:59:13.800 --> 3:59:14.400 South happy. 3:59:15.080 --> 3:59:18.960 Yeah, that's all we're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, m hmm. Yeah, 3:59:19.040 --> 3:59:21.640 that's supremacist the country. But that doesn't fit on a 3:59:21.720 --> 3:59:22.760 lawn placard. 3:59:23.600 --> 3:59:26.320 Yeah, get one of those, like in this in this house, 3:59:26.440 --> 3:59:27.400 we believe in. 3:59:27.480 --> 3:59:32.080 The nick administration. We believe in covering up doubling down 3:59:32.120 --> 3:59:34.800 on racism in order to And so it's. 3:59:34.680 --> 3:59:38.880 Worth noting too Kissinger isn't just micromanaging the the actual 3:59:39.000 --> 3:59:41.520 racist bombing campaign that they're doing to get votes. He 3:59:41.720 --> 3:59:44.680 is also the frontman Nixon sends out to talk to 3:59:44.880 --> 3:59:48.000 right wing leaders to try and like pump them up 3:59:48.000 --> 3:59:50.600 about this. Nixon sent him to talk to Ronald Reagan, 3:59:50.720 --> 3:59:54.200 then the governor of California. Kissinger sat down on Nixon's 3:59:54.240 --> 3:59:57.520 behalf with Billy Graham with William F. Buckley, with Bob Hooking, 3:59:57.680 --> 4:00:01.640 name God. His pattern went like this. The President wanted 4:00:01.680 --> 4:00:03.080 me to give you a brief call to tell you 4:00:03.200 --> 4:00:05.240 that with all the hysteria on TV and in the 4:00:05.320 --> 4:00:07.800 news on LAO, we feel we have set up everything 4:00:07.880 --> 4:00:10.880 we set out to do. Destroyed more supplies than in 4:00:11.000 --> 4:00:14.280 Cambodia last year, set them back many months. We achieved 4:00:14.320 --> 4:00:15.000 what we were after. 4:00:15.240 --> 4:00:17.280 Well, I tell you, I really am. I can't wait 4:00:17.320 --> 4:00:18.200 to go out there and rally. 4:00:18.240 --> 4:00:21.920 That was true, Sir Hank having just been doing some research. 4:00:22.200 --> 4:00:26.200 He is friends with Frank Sinatra. Frank would call him 4:00:26.200 --> 4:00:26.640 on the phone. 4:00:26.880 --> 4:00:29.040 Yeah, that sounds right, That fucking sounds right. 4:00:29.760 --> 4:00:32.240 When I get a nuclear weapon? Is that possible? 4:00:34.120 --> 4:00:35.480 Frank Sinatra with a nuke? 4:00:35.600 --> 4:00:36.240 That's yeah. 4:00:36.280 --> 4:00:38.320 There's no people left if that had happened. 4:00:38.040 --> 4:00:41.280 I imagine on Dean Martin's drink, and he didn't notice. 4:00:41.360 --> 4:00:46.560 Baby Kissinger spent a particularly long time bragging to Ronald 4:00:46.600 --> 4:00:50.280 Reagan about the administration's achievements. Quote, we wouldn't have had Cambodia, 4:00:50.400 --> 4:00:52.200 we wouldn't have had LAO, and we wouldn't have had 4:00:52.240 --> 4:00:55.080 an eighty billion dollar defense budget, you know, without Nixon 4:00:55.120 --> 4:00:58.960 getting elected. He also told Reagan, we wouldn't have had Amchitka. 4:00:59.640 --> 4:00:59.680 No. 4:01:00.080 --> 4:01:02.040 Chica is an island off the coast of Alaska in 4:01:02.040 --> 4:01:04.280 the early nineteen seventies. The White House wanted to nuke 4:01:04.320 --> 4:01:06.040 it for a lot of complicated reasons. 4:01:06.360 --> 4:01:08.680 Maybe I get that. Yeah, this is one thing. 4:01:08.720 --> 4:01:13.880 I'm actually I was from, not other islands, but specifically Amchitka. Yeah, 4:01:14.640 --> 4:01:20.920 we're like am Shitka. So the White House wants to 4:01:21.040 --> 4:01:23.800 nuke this island off the coast of Alaska. And as 4:01:23.840 --> 4:01:27.520 you have like environmentalists and indigenous people, just folks who's brain. 4:01:28.320 --> 4:01:34.560 Yeah, freedom, I hate freedom. 4:01:34.840 --> 4:01:38.120 Here's Greg Grandon again. The test had no military or 4:01:38.160 --> 4:01:40.440 scientific benefit, but was seen as something of a ritual 4:01:40.520 --> 4:01:43.120 by the right fireworks to celebrate the end of Johnson's 4:01:43.160 --> 4:01:47.320 presidency when many Hawks, like Curtis LeMay, felt the United 4:01:47.320 --> 4:01:50.160 States had fallen behind on nuclear development. Then, when public 4:01:50.200 --> 4:01:52.640 opposition to the detonation began to grow, Nixon had a 4:01:52.720 --> 4:01:55.680 chance to show conservatives that he would stand up to liberals. 4:01:56.040 --> 4:01:58.400 He let me known that we're the Supreme Court to 4:01:58.480 --> 4:02:01.160 issue an injunction against the test. He would go forward anyway. 4:02:01.960 --> 4:02:04.800 Didn't block the test but Haldman told Kissinger to play 4:02:04.800 --> 4:02:08.320 it for politics anyway. Tell Reagan, we're taking an unmitigated heat. 4:02:08.360 --> 4:02:10.240 In order to keep that thing going, we need all 4:02:10.280 --> 4:02:12.920 the support of the right. Later after the test was conducted, 4:02:13.120 --> 4:02:15.720 Nixon met with Senator Barry Goldwater and mocked the fears 4:02:15.720 --> 4:02:19.000 of environmentalists. The seals are still swimming. The President said, 4:02:19.200 --> 4:02:21.320 I'm damn proud of you. Goldwater told him. 4:02:22.800 --> 4:02:25.320 I need to get a bucket to Barfin. 4:02:25.840 --> 4:02:30.560 When people when people think like, oh, we've become dumb recently, 4:02:30.760 --> 4:02:33.280 we've always been so fucking stupid. 4:02:33.760 --> 4:02:37.240 It cannot be emphasized enough. We're just really dumb. 4:02:37.520 --> 4:02:43.480 I honestly, I definitely thought that we've I mean, it 4:02:43.600 --> 4:02:46.200 is a shocking level of dumb. It's the fact that 4:02:46.280 --> 4:02:49.800 it's just this dumb. Yeah, it's just been going on 4:02:49.920 --> 4:02:55.920 the island because because they wanted the fireworks. Yeah, because 4:02:55.960 --> 4:02:57.360 he wanted fireworks. 4:02:57.480 --> 4:03:00.960 And it's as they could tell Reagan, it's like his 4:03:01.200 --> 4:03:05.920 gender reveal fucking party, like right right, Jesus Christ, the bomb. 4:03:06.560 --> 4:03:09.040 It is worth noting for the sake of talking about 4:03:09.080 --> 4:03:13.400 how dumb we still are today. Curtis LeMay, who was 4:03:13.440 --> 4:03:15.120 one of the people cheering on the bombing of this 4:03:15.240 --> 4:03:19.320 random island is essentially the hero of Malcolm Gladwell's book 4:03:19.360 --> 4:03:22.520 The Bomber Mafia, which talks about how cool the bombing 4:03:22.520 --> 4:03:24.680 apparatus we set up was and how it helped keep 4:03:24.800 --> 4:03:28.800 things peaceful and built the wonderful packs Americana. That that's 4:03:28.920 --> 4:03:32.400 I'm sure these Cambodian civilians we've talked about appreciate it. 4:03:32.880 --> 4:03:34.600 Well, that's the one where you need to Once you 4:03:34.720 --> 4:03:37.440 have ten thousand bombs, you're an expert. Yeah, yeah, that's right. 4:03:37.520 --> 4:03:37.840 That's right. 4:03:37.920 --> 4:03:40.920 If you drop ten thousand bombs, you're a bombing Yeah, 4:03:41.040 --> 4:03:44.240 that's right. That's exactly. So in order to be able 4:03:44.280 --> 4:03:46.760 to do it right, yeah, you have to do it wrong. 4:03:46.880 --> 4:03:48.800 For those bomb you gotta. 4:03:48.640 --> 4:03:49.480 Log the bombs. 4:03:49.600 --> 4:03:54.600 That's exactly right here. So part of what made Kissinger remarkable, though, 4:03:54.720 --> 4:03:57.320 was his ability to rope conservatives in line for mass 4:03:57.400 --> 4:04:00.480 murder while also charming the entire liberalistat plishment of the 4:04:00.520 --> 4:04:03.600 East Coast. Nixon's chief of staff later recalled we knew 4:04:03.640 --> 4:04:05.840 Henry is the Hawk of hawks in the Oval office, 4:04:06.080 --> 4:04:09.240 But in the evenings, a magical transformation took place. Touching 4:04:09.280 --> 4:04:11.800 glasses at a party with his liberal friends. The belligerent 4:04:11.880 --> 4:04:15.000 Kissinger would suddenly become a dove, and the press, beguiled 4:04:15.040 --> 4:04:17.800 by Henry's charm in humor, bought it. They just couldn't 4:04:17.800 --> 4:04:21.400 believe that the intellectual, smiling, humorous Henry the Ka was 4:04:21.440 --> 4:04:25.120 a hawk like that bastard Nixon. It really is all 4:04:25.200 --> 4:04:29.800 about like if if if Donald Trump had had talked 4:04:29.880 --> 4:04:32.600 like an Aaron Sorkin character and like quoted books that 4:04:32.680 --> 4:04:35.720 people don't read but know are smart books, he would 4:04:35.760 --> 4:04:38.000 have been the most popular president in a generation. 4:04:38.560 --> 4:04:42.360 Like well, and I mean that'll happen. Yeah, No, one 4:04:42.360 --> 4:04:43.160 of them will figure it out. 4:04:43.240 --> 4:04:48.360 Yeah, yeah, cracked, And you gotta dial the racism down 4:04:48.520 --> 4:04:51.120 a little, you gotta dial the polite up and then 4:04:51.240 --> 4:04:55.360 kind of equalize them, and then you can yeah, and then. 4:04:55.880 --> 4:04:58.720 And then the right access to the right people in media. 4:04:58.880 --> 4:05:01.320 Yeah, you know, I mean we already saw that. I 4:05:01.360 --> 4:05:03.120 mean even under Trump, where you've got all these fucking 4:05:03.200 --> 4:05:06.480 reporters who had these like bombshells about horrible crimes being 4:05:06.520 --> 4:05:09.040 committed that they didn't release for a year in change 4:05:09.040 --> 4:05:10.080 because they got a book deal. 4:05:10.600 --> 4:05:13.840 Yeah yeah, right right, yeah, yeah, I mean John Bolton 4:05:13.960 --> 4:05:15.480 was basically just there to write a book. 4:05:15.720 --> 4:05:19.280 Yeah, everyone was. The whole administration was. Yeah, they're like 4:05:19.360 --> 4:05:24.600 fucking navy seals with the books. Yeah. So, Kissinger's reputation 4:05:24.760 --> 4:05:27.080 was as a brilliant, computer brained policy wonk, but his 4:05:27.160 --> 4:05:29.440 success came from his charm. He was able to win 4:05:29.560 --> 4:05:32.040 reporters over with a mix of leaks and effusive praise 4:05:32.080 --> 4:05:34.600 for their work, something that made them feel like insiders 4:05:34.640 --> 4:05:37.480 and thus sympathetic. He had a regular series of lunches 4:05:37.520 --> 4:05:40.600 with Arthur Slshinger, a liberal historian, whom he made sure 4:05:40.680 --> 4:05:43.840 to confidentially inform quote, I have been thinking a lot 4:05:43.920 --> 4:05:47.800 about resignation after the invasion of Cambodia. Slushinger was not 4:05:47.960 --> 4:05:50.320 privy to the information that proved Kissinger had planned the 4:05:50.360 --> 4:05:53.120 whole thing, so he believed Kissinger when Henry said that 4:05:53.160 --> 4:05:56.080 he'd only kept working for Nixon to prevent more damage 4:05:56.120 --> 4:06:00.320 to quote institutions of authority. Kissinger would warn his liberal 4:06:00.360 --> 4:06:04.280 friends that if he resigned, Spiro Agnew would run foreign policy. 4:06:04.640 --> 4:06:07.000 He was basically threatening, if I'm not here, the far 4:06:07.160 --> 4:06:09.560 right's going to be totally in power in foreign policy. 4:06:09.560 --> 4:06:11.880 I'm the only one keeping things from going crazy. 4:06:12.120 --> 4:06:14.440 It's like sessions and with Trump. I mean there are 4:06:14.520 --> 4:06:16.800 multiple people like that, but the amount of times when 4:06:16.840 --> 4:06:18.800 people would be like, oh, McMasters, you know, these are 4:06:18.840 --> 4:06:20.240 the good guys inside of the you. 4:06:20.280 --> 4:06:23.760 Know, but this too as he's drawing on a map 4:06:23.840 --> 4:06:27.640 where to annihilate. Yeah, oh yeah, and it works. It 4:06:27.840 --> 4:06:31.000 always works. It works, and it works over and over 4:06:31.160 --> 4:06:34.720 and over again. As a rule, if their job is 4:06:34.840 --> 4:06:37.920 to be a journalist who spends their time face to 4:06:38.000 --> 4:06:41.440 face with powerful people, they're bad at their job. As 4:06:41.480 --> 4:06:44.720 a rule, every now and then you get an exception, but. 4:06:44.840 --> 4:06:47.680 As a rule, no, it's like when Chomsky points out 4:06:47.680 --> 4:06:50.200 to that reporter that he has the rye, he's sitting 4:06:50.240 --> 4:06:50.760 in that seat. 4:06:50.880 --> 4:06:53.600 Yeah, you get the odd people who are willing to 4:06:53.720 --> 4:06:55.560 like report on the Penanon papers or whatever, and like 4:06:55.640 --> 4:06:57.640 do you know you get or the Afghanistan papers with 4:06:57.800 --> 4:07:00.440 the Washington Post. Not to not to down play the 4:07:00.520 --> 4:07:02.560 fact that there are people in those institutions who do 4:07:03.200 --> 4:07:07.760 do damning reports on power, but also the level of 4:07:07.840 --> 4:07:10.920 complicity within the broader media apparatus means that even when 4:07:10.960 --> 4:07:12.800 you get a damning report on, for example, the war 4:07:12.840 --> 4:07:15.080 in Afghanistan, which the Washington Post, if you've read that 4:07:16.320 --> 4:07:17.520 it's utterly damning. 4:07:17.920 --> 4:07:20.840 Been do anything doesn't matter. Yeah, like this doesn't stop 4:07:20.880 --> 4:07:24.080 anything very I mean, you know, and the reason why 4:07:24.680 --> 4:07:27.280 people do it less and less is because you're attacked. So, 4:07:28.080 --> 4:07:30.800 I mean it works. The public attacks discredit you, and 4:07:30.880 --> 4:07:33.160 then you are you are what you are, You're no 4:07:33.320 --> 4:07:35.720 longer you no longer get access to that information. 4:07:35.960 --> 4:07:39.200 Yeah, it's great. So A good example of how Kissos 4:07:39.280 --> 4:07:41.320 used his charm is a speech he gave at MIT 4:07:41.520 --> 4:07:44.000 in January of nineteen seventy one. He started off by 4:07:44.040 --> 4:07:47.680 feigning a confidential air and telling the students that Nixon 4:07:47.720 --> 4:07:50.200 had not been his quote first choice, but that in 4:07:50.320 --> 4:07:52.360 time he'd come to see the bombing of Cambodia as 4:07:52.400 --> 4:07:56.120 the only quote sensible path towards the Vietnamization. Vietnamization is 4:07:56.200 --> 4:07:57.840 like the process of the US getting out in South 4:07:57.880 --> 4:08:00.520 Vietnam taking over, Right, that's the big buzz Nixon and 4:08:00.800 --> 4:08:03.760 his jury using. When one student asked him what it 4:08:03.760 --> 4:08:06.400 would take to make him resign from the Nixon administration, 4:08:06.720 --> 4:08:10.240 Kissinger said he wouldn't quote unless gas chambers were set 4:08:10.320 --> 4:08:12.280 up or some horrendous moral outrage. 4:08:12.680 --> 4:08:16.240 What wait, wait, what is it? What does that mean? Exactly? 4:08:16.320 --> 4:08:19.320 He wouldn't get out unless and less Nixon was setting 4:08:19.400 --> 4:08:20.440 up gas chambers. 4:08:20.720 --> 4:08:26.080 I mean, what the fuck? U child? His childhood didn't 4:08:26.080 --> 4:08:30.560 affect him in any way. Yeah, outrageous, And it's confidence 4:08:31.080 --> 4:08:31.640 the student. 4:08:31.880 --> 4:08:34.640 And it's interesting because then the student who asked this 4:08:34.800 --> 4:08:37.560 question of Kissinger later realized, like, is there really a 4:08:37.640 --> 4:08:41.520 difference between forcing people into a gas chamber and incinerating 4:08:41.560 --> 4:08:44.240 from them from the sky with a bombing campaign. I 4:08:44.320 --> 4:08:47.000 guess not. But at the moment, this doesn't really occur 4:08:47.080 --> 4:08:48.920 to him. And at the moment he writes quote, he 4:08:49.040 --> 4:08:52.720 had sounded so sincere, so sympathetic, so much one of us, 4:08:53.120 --> 4:08:54.960 and right' I'll blame the journalists, like I'm not going 4:08:55.040 --> 4:08:56.880 to blame a student for falling for Henry, because like 4:08:56.920 --> 4:09:00.520 he's essentially still a child, And Henry Kissinger is the 4:09:00.600 --> 4:09:02.560 most powerful man in the world. Of course, he's good 4:09:02.600 --> 4:09:06.880 at wat talking circles around these fucking kids. The week 4:09:07.040 --> 4:09:09.840 after that speech, Kissinger and Nixon sent ground troops into 4:09:09.920 --> 4:09:13.200 Lao after another massive round of aerial bombardment. This involved 4:09:13.240 --> 4:09:16.480 seventeen thousand South Vietnamese troops supported by US air power. 4:09:16.840 --> 4:09:20.200 It was a catastrophe. Eight thousand South Vietnamese soldiers were 4:09:20.240 --> 4:09:22.600 killed or wounded. The United States lost two hundred and 4:09:22.640 --> 4:09:25.840 fifteen men. Nixon considered it a victory because it played 4:09:25.840 --> 4:09:27.800 well with conservatives in the media. 4:09:28.080 --> 4:09:28.200 Fu. 4:09:28.560 --> 4:09:32.720 Oh god, and he's drunk, and he's drunk, and he's 4:09:32.880 --> 4:09:34.520 he is that's pretty good. 4:09:36.080 --> 4:09:40.160 He just pounded back an entire bottle of vodka before 4:09:40.240 --> 4:09:44.120 saying that. When the media savaged Lao as a pointless bloodbath, 4:09:44.200 --> 4:09:47.280 Kissinger ran to his boss and complained about vicious coverage, 4:09:47.400 --> 4:09:49.960 saying if Britain had pressed like this in World War Two, 4:09:50.000 --> 4:09:52.840 they would have quit. In forty two. Both Kissinger and 4:09:53.000 --> 4:09:55.400 Nixon saw LAO as a win because it benefited their 4:09:55.440 --> 4:09:58.360 domestic chances of re election. As Nixon told his right 4:09:58.400 --> 4:10:01.200 hand man, the main thing on Lao, I don't care 4:10:01.280 --> 4:10:01.920 what happens there. 4:10:02.040 --> 4:10:05.440 It's a win. See a win. See he's a little 4:10:05.480 --> 4:10:09.960 gangstere that's right. Henry to Orange started coppers. 4:10:10.560 --> 4:10:10.800 Oh. 4:10:11.360 --> 4:10:14.440 And as the re election campaign turned forward, Kissinger was 4:10:14.480 --> 4:10:19.400 about to help his boss engineer another win. And this one, boy, 4:10:19.440 --> 4:10:21.560 how do you think we've seen a body count so far? 4:10:22.880 --> 4:10:24.600 My god, what the fuck? 4:10:25.960 --> 4:10:30.600 But that's still morning that island. So now they're in sweeps. Yeah. 4:10:30.720 --> 4:10:34.000 Yeah, now they're hitting sweeps. And if you think hundreds 4:10:34.040 --> 4:10:36.520 of thousands of cambodi and dead, plus aiding in the 4:10:36.600 --> 4:10:38.000 deaths of another millionaire. 4:10:37.680 --> 4:10:38.640 So was bad. 4:10:38.960 --> 4:10:39.280 It was. 4:10:39.560 --> 4:10:42.760 It's really bad. It's a historic crime. But also Henry 4:10:42.800 --> 4:10:44.560 Kissinger's just getting started. 4:10:45.040 --> 4:10:50.960 So I'm just you guys want to plug anything my 4:10:51.120 --> 4:10:59.520 ears death? Yea, I remember because when I did an 4:10:59.520 --> 4:11:02.040 episode on our podcast about Tim Leary and there's a 4:11:02.120 --> 4:11:05.200 lot of the you know, Nixon law and Order president 4:11:05.240 --> 4:11:08.800 stuff in there, and how drunk he was. But also 4:11:08.920 --> 4:11:13.920 his lunch every day was pineapple circles with cottage cheese 4:11:13.960 --> 4:11:17.880 in the middle, and so that was his that was 4:11:17.960 --> 4:11:20.360 his daily drunk lunch. And then there's the one night 4:11:20.440 --> 4:11:23.320 where he's starting to feel the heat. Well maybe I 4:11:23.480 --> 4:11:24.960 don't know if you'll get it into that. Well, he 4:11:25.080 --> 4:11:28.840 basically he goes out hammered with his valet and he 4:11:28.960 --> 4:11:31.320 goes and talks to some of the people protesting him, 4:11:31.800 --> 4:11:33.160 and like one of the he wakes one of these 4:11:33.160 --> 4:11:35.040 guys up and he's like, you really think I'm a 4:11:35.080 --> 4:11:37.480 bad guy, And the guy's just like, what the fuck 4:11:37.600 --> 4:11:38.040 is going on? 4:11:38.280 --> 4:11:38.400 Right? 4:11:40.640 --> 4:11:48.280 Nixon out cruising? Yeah, Well, we'll we as you know, Look, 4:11:48.400 --> 4:11:51.160 it sounds like the world loves America after hearing some 4:11:51.280 --> 4:11:53.440 of this stuff. So we will be going to Australia 4:11:53.640 --> 4:11:56.760 on a tour. You can go to dollapodcast dot com 4:11:56.840 --> 4:12:01.200 for those tour dates. We'll be touring America, and even 4:12:01.360 --> 4:12:03.800 if we do badly, we won't bomb as hard as 4:12:03.840 --> 4:12:04.680 Kissinger Nixon. 4:12:04.840 --> 4:12:06.880 Yeah, I mean it would be hard to. 4:12:09.520 --> 4:12:10.360 Bomb on that level. 4:12:10.800 --> 4:12:12.920 I honestly, we still have a lot of bombs. I 4:12:12.960 --> 4:12:14.640 don't know if we have enough bombs to bomb that 4:12:14.760 --> 4:12:15.600 hard anymore. 4:12:15.760 --> 4:12:19.200 I don't think so. I honestly think we could pull 4:12:19.240 --> 4:12:21.360 our pants down and fight with our penises and still 4:12:21.400 --> 4:12:23.640 people be like, that's not that I've seen. I've heard 4:12:23.680 --> 4:12:24.480 of Wor's bombings. 4:12:24.800 --> 4:12:27.360 I have seen a couple of cities leveled by American 4:12:27.400 --> 4:12:29.880 bombs at this point, and it's still not as much 4:12:29.920 --> 4:12:31.920 as fucking law got bombed. 4:12:32.120 --> 4:12:37.600 And christ yeah he cannot process it. And well I'm 4:12:37.680 --> 4:12:39.560 on the road to go to Garethronolds dot com for 4:12:39.720 --> 4:12:45.640 tour dates. Yeah, but feels feels wrong to do that. Yeah, 4:12:45.680 --> 4:12:46.800 hard promotion. 4:12:47.200 --> 4:12:47.920 Well it's great. 4:12:47.920 --> 4:12:51.040 I will put in a plug for the concept of 4:12:51.120 --> 4:12:54.240 death because as long as as long as men die. 4:12:54.480 --> 4:12:57.600 You know, there's all of these ghouls eventually had to 4:12:57.720 --> 4:13:01.480 face the end of of everything in the same way 4:13:01.720 --> 4:13:04.720 that that those people in Cambodia did. And one day 4:13:04.720 --> 4:13:06.520 it will come for Henry Kissinger and he will be 4:13:06.640 --> 4:13:08.520 frightened and alone and left. 4:13:09.360 --> 4:13:11.440 I feel like he bombed the reaper. I mean he 4:13:11.720 --> 4:13:15.800 like he is the level of melting. I mean he is. 4:13:16.120 --> 4:13:16.960 I hope he dies. 4:13:17.200 --> 4:13:19.280 I hope he just I hope he shits himself and 4:13:19.320 --> 4:13:21.040 then slowly dies over eight hours. 4:13:21.360 --> 4:13:23.800 Well, yes, it needs to be like that. He needs 4:13:23.840 --> 4:13:25.040 to be. It needs to be a letting. 4:13:25.280 --> 4:13:27.720 There's a you know, the one war criminal in all 4:13:27.760 --> 4:13:29.840 of history who got close to what he deserved is 4:13:29.920 --> 4:13:33.320 Ryan Hard Heydrich, the architect of the Holocaust, who stupidly 4:13:33.680 --> 4:13:36.360 charged a bunch of assassins and got wounded by a 4:13:36.440 --> 4:13:40.240 bomb and shatted into his own guts for several days 4:13:40.320 --> 4:13:42.120 until he died of sepsis over the course of a 4:13:42.160 --> 4:13:46.200 week and change. That's that's the kind of death. And 4:13:46.320 --> 4:13:48.680 and not just Kissinger. There's like thirty people we've named 4:13:48.720 --> 4:13:52.040 in this story. You deserve that kind of death. There's 4:13:52.080 --> 4:13:55.200 a lot of folks, I mean, pot died old and 4:13:55.600 --> 4:13:59.000 relatively you know, unpunished. You know, they all, most of 4:13:59.040 --> 4:13:59.880 them do at all that. 4:14:00.320 --> 4:14:02.440 It's great to hear a judge sentence Kissinger to that, 4:14:02.720 --> 4:14:04.760 like it would be you to shitting in your own 4:14:04.800 --> 4:14:07.800 guts for about a week after a bomb just embowels you. 4:14:08.280 --> 4:14:11.600 That's that's the right that's the right punishment for this 4:14:11.800 --> 4:14:15.600 kind of stuff, all right, Yeah, yeah. 4:14:18.400 --> 4:14:21.040 Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 4:14:21.440 --> 4:14:24.680 For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia 4:14:24.880 --> 4:14:28.080 dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 4:14:28.160 --> 4:14:30.520 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.