1 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: It dawned on me that my cousin's a possible victim 2 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: of her boumeister, and he's never been identified. He was 3 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: a pretty fun going guy, loved a party, always the 4 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: center of attention. Jeff didn't know how to help me 5 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: at first, but he told me he would, and I 6 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: busted this case wide open. 7 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: In the summer of nineteen ninety three, something strange started happening. 8 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: Young men began to disappear one by one. Friends and 9 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: family didn't know what happened to them, only that they vanished. 10 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: The truth was far worse than anyone could have imagined, 11 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: and the crime scene was so large that investigators were overwhelmed. 12 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: Back then, police had clues that they were onto a 13 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: serial killer, but the investigation was dropped for nearly thirty years. 14 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: Families were left with no answers, but that changed when 15 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 2: one man looking for his cousin made a phone call 16 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: and more bodies turned up. This is America's crime Lab. 17 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: I'm Alan Lance Lesser. Producer Katherine Fenlosa is here, and Catherine, 18 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: I have to admit this case has me intrigued. 19 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: While there is something I think about serial killers, It's like, 20 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 3: you know, the saying of like a car crash, everyone 21 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 3: sort of slows down to watch. Yeah, because it defies 22 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 3: normal human behavior, and so maybe there's a heart at 23 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: least for me. That's like, oh my gosh, what makes 24 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: these people tick because it's so abnormal? 25 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, how is it even possible. 26 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 3: This case is also unique because it involves the second 27 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: largest amount of unidentified human remains ever discovered at a 28 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: crime scene in this country. It's second only to the 29 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: World Trade Center site. 30 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so this is a big deal. 31 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: I mean a mass grave. 32 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 3: Basically, this one actually gave me nightmares and kept me up. 33 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 3: So this case, a lot of people refer to it 34 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: as fox Hollow Farm or the Fox Hollow Murders. 35 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: Yes, do you know of it? I know a little 36 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: bit about it. 37 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 3: This takes place in the nineties in a suburb of Indianapolis, Indiana, 38 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: just north of the city, about forty five minutes and 39 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 3: there is a couple, Julie and Herb Baumeister, and they 40 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: meet at the University of Indiana. Herb is known as 41 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 3: a little quirky. For example, he and a friend co 42 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: owned a used hearse as a car and people would 43 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 3: just sort of laugh it off. Like, Oh, that's Herb. 44 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: He's a little eccentric, but very nice guy. 45 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe a little quirky, a little different. 46 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the son of a doctor, so maybe 47 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: he was used to being around medical stuff and not 48 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: spooped by it. So they end up getting married and 49 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: Julie goes to teach at a high school. Herb gets 50 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 3: a job as a clerk at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles. 51 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 3: Julie says she was drawn to her because of his 52 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: good looks. He was sort of tall and skinny with 53 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: dark hair. She said he was funny and just easy 54 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 3: to get along with. She said she always had a 55 00:03:54,120 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: good time with him. They eventually have three kids, and 56 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: he finds a job at a thrift store like a 57 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: used clothing store, and he likes this job, and so 58 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 3: he and Julie have a joint dream to open up 59 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: their own thrift store. They borrow money from Herb's mom 60 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 3: and they open up their first store. 61 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 2: I love that they open up a store as a team. 62 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I called Steve Ainsworth to get some of 63 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: the backstory. So Steve spent his career as a detective 64 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: in Boulder, Colorado. He worked homicides in major crimes. And 65 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 3: now he works with Authorm, America's crime lab. 66 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: Okay, so what does he do there. 67 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: He's a law enforcement liaison, which means it's his job 68 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: to work with local authorities when they bring evidence to 69 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 3: AUTHORM for advanced DNA testing. And Steve says, Herb and 70 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 3: July named their store Save a Lot, and it. 71 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 4: Was basically like a goodwill or a salvation army where 72 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 4: he would take used clothing, used appliants, as all used furniture, 73 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 4: all that he would put them in these stores and 74 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 4: he would sell it. Well. It became very popular and 75 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 4: he made quite a bit of money, so he's able 76 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 4: to purchase Fox Hollow. 77 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: Fox Hollow is the property that Herb and Julie buy, 78 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: and it's in a wealthy suburb of Indianapolis. It's known 79 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 3: for being a very conservative area. It's pretty with lots 80 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: of horse farms and rolling hills. You kind of get 81 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 3: the picture. 82 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: Wow, So Herb and Julie must be doing really well. 83 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: They are. 84 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: Steve Ainsworth has actually visited the estate and I asked 85 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: him to describe it. 86 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 4: It's an English tutor stay home with ariage barn off 87 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 4: to the side in its huge garage, and then it's 88 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 4: surrounded by these very very dense woods. 89 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 3: The house has a long sort of winding driveway and 90 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 3: there are a number of outbuildings. There's a horse stable, 91 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: I believe, there's like a three car garage. 92 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 4: The house itself, it is big. I mean it's really big. 93 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 4: It has three levels, county in a basement, but it's 94 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: really dark. Inside. 95 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 3: The house is really impressive. There's like a real darkwood 96 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: library and a huge kitchen. There is an indoor. 97 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: Pool, oh my goodness. 98 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's in the basement. And there is also a 99 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: bar area with like a legit bar, like one or 100 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: two bartenders could be behind there, and then there are 101 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 3: doors that go out to a back patio and from 102 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: the back patio there's a green lawn. At the time 103 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 3: when Herb and Julie bought this, behind the house was 104 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 3: a very dense wooded area and the woods came up 105 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: pretty close to the back of the house. So in 106 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: the summers, Julie and the kid's head about one hundred 107 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: miles north of Fox Hollow Farm where the family has 108 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: a place on a lake. 109 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: Wow, they're living the life. 110 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're doing really well, and I think the place 111 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 3: might be in Herb's family. Herb spends essentially Monday through 112 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: Friday at home going to work, and then on the 113 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: weekends he'll go join them. For the most part, they 114 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: do this, you know, for a number of years, and 115 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: this is sort of their lifestyle. 116 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: Where is this going? 117 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: Around nineteen ninety three, something starts happening in Indianapolis and 118 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: it's a little bit under the radar, but young men 119 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: start disappearing and a lot of these men are part 120 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: of the gay community who frequent some of the gay 121 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 3: bars in Indianapolis. And at the start, it's not reported 122 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: on the news, and there are aren't like big search 123 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: parties being organized to look for these men. It's almost 124 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: more like little murmurings at the bars, you know, like 125 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 3: people are saying like, hey, have you seen John? 126 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: Have you seen Richard? 127 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: And after a while, missing persons posters start showing up 128 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 3: in some of these bars. They're made by family and 129 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: friends with just like a picture of the person and 130 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: some description about what. 131 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: They look like. 132 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: And pretty soon people in the gay community are starting 133 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: to get worried about what's happening, and there's some concern 134 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: like are all of these related? 135 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like maybe they're being targeted in some way. 136 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: These bars were located in downtown Indianapolis, which in the 137 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: nineties was a very conservative area and it was also 138 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 3: a nine to five city, Steve says, when it emptied 139 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: out at the end of a workday and became a 140 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: ghost town, the bars these men went to came to life. 141 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 4: They were disappearing from these now gay clubs, places where 142 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 4: they could go to field stafe. 143 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: And this is also during the AIDS crisis. Yeah, you 144 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: would see somebody frequently and it wasn't always clear that 145 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 3: they were sick, and then all of a sudden they 146 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: stopped showing up at the clubs, and no one really 147 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: knows why. I mean, it was just a very fragile 148 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: and vulnerable community. 149 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I mean that kind of makes sense that 150 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: maybe it's harder to track people down because of that. 151 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was also pretty common for people to 152 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 3: go buy a different name at these clubs. I mean 153 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: they were worried, you know, if their true identity came 154 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: out and they were found out to be gay, that 155 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: they could lose their jobs. But in the summer of 156 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 3: ninety three, five men who frequented this gay nightclub scene 157 00:09:52,760 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 3: go missing in ninety four, they're three more. Ninety five, 158 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: they're two more. Detectives from that time period will say that, 159 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: especially in this community, there were not a lot of 160 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: missing person reports being made. 161 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 4: And you have to remember back in the eighties and 162 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 4: even the mid nineties, it was really underground. These are 163 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 4: gay men, so it's like it's a subculture. It wouldn't 164 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 4: be reported like that eighteen year old coed goes missing 165 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 4: from Lindy or something like that. I don't think the 166 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 4: public was really aware of what was going on. 167 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing with stigma, or I don't know, 168 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: just prejudice in general. It's not only that people have 169 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: to directly be victimized by it, but then it's like 170 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: people don't feel safe to even ask for help or 171 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: seek out resources, and who knows if they will get 172 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: the support when they do ask. 173 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: So more and more of these posters start showing up 174 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: of these men disappearing. Then one day, Julie Baumeister is 175 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 3: at her house. Her thirteen year old son Eric has 176 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: a friend over and they're playing outside. 177 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 4: Baumeister told his kids not to go into the woods 178 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 4: around the house because they could catch all kinds of diseases. 179 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 4: Get sick. There is all kinds of bugs, and he 180 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 4: just scared him not to go out into the woods. 181 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 4: But his son, and I think a friend of his 182 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 4: son went into the woods and they were just kind 183 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: of looking around and exploring. 184 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 3: The next thing Julie knows is that Eric comes running 185 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: into the house and he is holding a fully intact 186 00:11:45,200 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: human skull. 187 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: So Eric, their son, comes into the house holding a 188 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 2: human skull, and I'm really hoping his mom. Julie freaks 189 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: out because I mean, if someone came into my house 190 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: with a skull from my yard, I would go berserk. 191 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: She's like, oh my god, is that really real? How 192 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 3: could that have been behind the house. So she takes 193 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: it from Eric, and when herb gets home from work 194 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: that night, she says, HERB, look at what the kids found. 195 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 4: And when she confronted HERB about it, he said it 196 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 4: was left over from when his dad was a doctor, 197 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 4: and it was an anatomy specimen that his dad had 198 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 4: used before, and that's how he explained it away. 199 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: And Julie thinks, oh, okay, I mean that's a legitimate explanation. 200 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's her husband, so she must 201 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 2: have a level of trust with him also, though I 202 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 2: don't know, I just that would really be jarring to me, 203 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: and I feel like I would need to call the 204 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: police pretty much right away. 205 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 3: Well, there don't seem to be any other like red 206 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: flags for her. She does say that through their entire marriage, 207 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 3: Herb was a great dad, Like he was super involved 208 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 3: when it came time to select a preschool or help 209 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 3: with homework. He was like a completely present father. The 210 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 3: other thing, too, is that they lived on eighteen acres, 211 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 3: and as I was saying, it's like really dense woods. 212 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: I mean, they were certainly finding like animal bones back there. 213 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: Maybe this had actually been back there for a long time. 214 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 3: So it was surprising and shocking to her. But Herb 215 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 3: was able to calm all of her fears and she 216 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: sort of put it out of her mind. These men 217 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: keep disappearing. A guy named Stephen Hale is last seen 218 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: in April of ninety four. Alan Brussard is last seen 219 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 3: at one of the gay bars in June. In July, 220 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 3: Roger Allan Godette helps his mom put together a bench, 221 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 3: he plays with his kitten, and then he goes out 222 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 3: to a bar. That's the last time he was seen 223 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: in public. In nineteen ninety six, a group of families 224 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 3: of these missing men hire a private detective because they're 225 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: not getting any answers from police, and Steve Ainsworth says 226 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: that leads investigators to someone, a. 227 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 4: Guy by the name of Mark Goodyear, who frequented these 228 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 4: clubs and he had all of these stories he was 229 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 4: telling to get this really going. 230 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 3: So Mark Goodyear meets with police and he says, you know, yeah, 231 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 3: I've met this guy, Brian Smart at a gay bar 232 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 3: and he invited me back to his house. We went 233 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: down to the basement where he has an indoor pool 234 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: and there's a bar, and it was a little weird. 235 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 3: So there were a lot of mannikins. Stop and the 236 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: mannikins are set up around the pool area and they're 237 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: posed so it looks like they're like lounging by the water. 238 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 3: And in the bar area they're even more mannequins. These 239 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: ones are dressed in clothing and they're posed so it 240 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: looks like they're like having drinks and talking. And the 241 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 3: pool area is really foggy and misty, and Mark says, 242 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 3: the whole scene has this really eerie vibe to it. 243 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 3: Mark says, Brian offers me an from the bar and 244 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: I just kind of had a bad feeling about it. 245 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: So I make an excuse and I go to the 246 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 3: bathroom and Alan, I think he pours it out and 247 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: comes back with water quick thinking, and I was worried 248 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: that there were drugs in the drink. Anyway, we swam 249 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: in the pool. Mark says, you know, I wasn't really 250 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: into this. This guy Brian kept coming up behind me, 251 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 3: one time with a hose putting it around my neck, 252 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 3: another time with a belt whoa a piece of rope. 253 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: That is kind of scary in that he thinks he's 254 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: being drugged, and it sounds like he's calming up behind 255 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: him that he's not getting consent, because I do get 256 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: in the BDSM community or something, content is a huge part, 257 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: and it sounds like that's not what was happening here. 258 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 3: No, and Mark said, you know, he was so persistent 259 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 3: that had I been drugged and a little sleepy and 260 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 3: not fully aware of what was going on, he could 261 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: have overpowered me. I mean, I would not have been 262 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 3: able to resist what he was doing. 263 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: It's terrifying. 264 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 3: But then it's a little confusing because then Mark Goodyear 265 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 3: goes on to say, but you know, we engaged in 266 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 3: consensual sex, even though he's now thought that this guy 267 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 3: drugged him. He's a little weirded out by these mannequins 268 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 3: in the house, and you know, this guy, Brian has 269 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 3: essentially tried to strangle him a few times. Right, But 270 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 3: Mark spends the night okay, and the next day Brian 271 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 3: drives him back to Indianapolis. 272 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 2: It is a little weird. 273 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: Like I would think he would want to get the 274 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 3: heck out of there. 275 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I also get though, how if you're in a 276 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: scary situation, maybe and he is your ride. This is 277 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: before car share services, you know, it might be hard 278 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: to get out of there. True, I don't know. I'm 279 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: just giving him the benefit of the doubt that if 280 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: you're in a scary situation, you just kind of deal 281 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 2: with it and get out when you can. And maybe 282 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: that was just what worked. 283 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hadn't thought of that, And so Mark does 284 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: mention to the police. You know, I felt like this 285 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 3: wasn't the first time this guy had had an evening 286 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 3: like this, and I honestly felt like if he wanted to, 287 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 3: he could have murdered me. Like there was a very 288 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: thin line between fetishy sex and something much more dangerous. 289 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: This is giving me the chills a little bit, just 290 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 2: the idea that he was able to leave. And I 291 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: don't know if this is going where I think it's going. 292 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he narrowly escaped. 293 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: So the police can't figure out who this Brian Smart is. 294 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 3: They do look into it, but it almost seems like 295 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 3: the investigation ends before it began, if that makes sense. 296 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: Clearly it was an alias Mark Goodyear. Couldn't tell them 297 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 3: where the house was. It couldn't give them any description 298 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 3: of like, oh, yeah, we took this highway to that 299 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 3: highway and we got off on this road. At one point, 300 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: another witness comes forward and he says a man approaches 301 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 3: him at a bar with an offer. 302 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 4: Hey, I've got this really, really wealthy friend. He's got 303 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 4: this great house. He's got an indoor swimming pool. You've 304 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 4: got to come. 305 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: And see it. 306 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 4: Baummeister did not take him out there, and he had 307 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 4: this encounter with this person who took him out there. 308 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: Wait, so someone else is inviting men back to Herb's house, 309 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: So that suggests there are other people involved. Are the 310 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 2: police putting it together that this could be a serial 311 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: killer or killers targeting the gay community to be honest. 312 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: I mean, back then, there just weren't a lot of 313 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 3: resources devoted to an investigation. And Steve says, it's because 314 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: these men were gay. 315 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 4: I think they would have been a connected sooner if 316 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 4: it was a different community. I think that it kind 317 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: of fell on deaf ears for a while until these 318 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 4: remains started going up. 319 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 3: So a year goes by and someone meets a man 320 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: who resembles Brian Smart. They write down the license plate 321 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 3: of his car and give it to police. Cops run 322 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: the plate and the car doesn't belong to Brian Smart. 323 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: It belongs to a man named Herb Baumeister. Oh, the 324 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: guy with a big house, the big house with the 325 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 3: wife and three kids, the guy that goes to church 326 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: with his wife and kids, who owns the save a 327 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 3: lot stores, her Boutmeister. So the police go and pay 328 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 3: him a visit at one of his stores, and the 329 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 3: detectives say, he seems really strange. He's very nervous. He's 330 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 3: almost like jumping out of his skin. The detectives tell 331 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: him that they know about his secret lifestyle of frequenting 332 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 3: the gay nightclub scene in Indianapolis. He kind of freaks out. 333 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 3: He says, nobody knows about this. He's clearly panicked that 334 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: this news is going to get. 335 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: Out, which could be just that maybe he feels like 336 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: he'll lose his family or his shop, his livelihood. I mean, 337 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: for that reason alone, it's reasonable that he's nervous. 338 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 3: They do ask to search his property, he says no. Now, 339 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: they don't have any actual evidence of anything, so they 340 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 3: don't get a search warrant. The police then decide to 341 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: go to the house, and the day that they go, 342 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 3: Herb's wife, Julie, is there. She's like, why are police 343 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: coming to my property? She initially doesn't let them look around, 344 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: but in talking to detectives she does start to think 345 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 3: about a few things that seemed off. One is the 346 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 3: skull that her son had found in the woods while 347 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 3: playing with a friend. Yeah, And when police ask her 348 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: more about that, she's like, yeah, but I mentioned it 349 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 3: to Herb, and you know, he reminded me his dad 350 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 3: was an anesthesiologist, probably used it for meta research. Herb 351 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 3: said he had stored it in the garage, that maybe 352 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 3: raccoons had got into the garage and dragged it out 353 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: into the woods. 354 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: I'm glad she shared that with the police, because I 355 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 2: don't think I would buy his explanation, but that's just me. 356 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 3: She does explain to police that their marriage is rocky. 357 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 3: They sort of separated a couple of times and then 358 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 3: got back together. I will say that shortly after they 359 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 3: got married, Herb's father suggested or put into action Herb 360 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 3: being committed to a hospital for severe depression, and he 361 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 3: stayed about a month. Julie was in full support of 362 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 3: that because she said he was really hurting and that 363 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: he needed help. 364 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 4: Oh wow, he was having some issues in his marriage 365 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 4: as well as the businesses, and that they kind of 366 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 4: bled over into each other. They just kind of mounted 367 00:23:58,960 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 4: on each other. 368 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 3: Steve Ainsworth says the day detectives visit the house Herb 369 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 3: was living elsewhere, eventually Julie allows them to look on 370 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 3: the property and she leads them out to the area 371 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 3: where the boys found the human skull, and the police 372 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 3: walk out there. 373 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 4: They were just really just feet away from the house, 374 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 4: and these woods are incredibly dense and a really a 375 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 4: good place to hide a body. 376 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 3: And they find some bone fragments, human bones, what they 377 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: think are human bone fragments. So all of a sudden, 378 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 3: this is like a bigger situation detectives bring in a 379 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 3: forensic anthropologist from the University of Indianapolis who brings in 380 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 3: a whole team of people to search, and they literally 381 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 3: descend on the property looking at photos from this time. 382 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 3: They set up a grid pattern, almost like an archaeological dig, 383 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 3: and anytime somebody finds a bone fragment, they put a 384 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 3: small red flag in the ground. There are literally hundreds 385 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 3: of red flags, almost like someone has taken a handful 386 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 3: of bird seed and just tossed it in the woods, 387 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 3: and then you put a flag every place where those 388 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: seeds have landed. Like it was that enormous. 389 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 2: My god, a sea of red flags. 390 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 3: A sea of red flags. 391 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even know what to say. That's 392 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 2: a horrific picture. I mean, especially because each one of 393 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: those flags represents a piece of actual human remains. 394 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 4: I have never personally seen anything like that, with that 395 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 4: amount of remains and the condition that they're in. I've 396 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 4: just never seen anything like that. 397 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 3: You know, You've got the indoor pool and they're sliding 398 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 3: glass doors that lead out to a patio and there's 399 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 3: an outdoor table with chairs and it's set up for 400 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 3: like grilling, and then there's a little bit of lawn 401 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,959 Speaker 3: beyond the patio, like not much, I mean enough for 402 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 3: kids to like kick a soccer ball around, and just 403 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: beyond that starts the woods, so they are like feet 404 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 3: within the woods. When they start finding these bone fragments, 405 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 3: the police start walking deeper into the woods and as 406 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 3: they're walking, they're finding more and more and they're actually 407 00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: finding like a footbone, a leg bone. They find shotgun shells, 408 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 3: they find a pair of handcuffs. 409 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 4: We've found handcuffs in the woods. One of them had 410 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 4: an armbone sticking through. 411 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: It, as if someone just kind of sat there and decayed. 412 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: Oh my, without even much hiding or anything. 413 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 3: They end up searching the area behind the house for 414 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 3: two weeks and they recover thousands of remains. I think 415 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: it was an eighteen acre property, so they don't search 416 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 3: all of it, but they sort of section off three 417 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: different areas that they're focusing their search in. And while 418 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 3: they're searching in one of these areas, there's a fence 419 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 3: that divides the Fox Hollow property from the neighbors and 420 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 3: from the other side of the fence, two young men 421 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 3: show up and say, hey, we've found something over on 422 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: our edge of the property that you might want to see. 423 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 3: The police go over there. There's a creek bed. On 424 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 3: either side of the creek bed, it is like a 425 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 3: virtual graveyard. There are ribs sticking out of the mud. 426 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 3: There's a full hit bone, what leg bones, a lower 427 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 3: jawbone with the teeth still intact. 428 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: I mean, no wonder this has been keeping you up 429 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 2: at night. I mean, this is I feel like, even 430 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: hearing about this, I'm in some weird nightmare. 431 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 3: One of the detectives said, it's almost like somebody took 432 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: a skeleton and just started pulling, you know, limbs off 433 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 3: of it and just like tossing them into this creek. 434 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: They aren't buried, you know, no one's taken any effort 435 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: to like hide any of this or bury any of 436 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 3: the remains. 437 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so bold, and it's like someone who's 438 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 2: been getting away with this for a long time and 439 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: knows they can get away with it. 440 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 3: So police keep walking through the woods and Steve says 441 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 3: they find another site. 442 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 4: There's a burn pit which is very near to where 443 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 4: the skull and the skeleton were found. Those were obviously burned, 444 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 4: so they're getting burned and crushed really to obliterate any identification. 445 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 3: It's almost like a never ending map of just burnt, crushed, 446 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 3: scattered human remains over this property. And police start wondering, 447 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: like we don't even know how many victims were even, Yeah, 448 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: like how many people are here? 449 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: That was my first thought. Yeah, what is the wife think? 450 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 3: So she's starting to panic. Yeah, and she's home with 451 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 3: two of her kids, but her son is actually spending 452 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 3: time with herb right now, and Herb is at the 453 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 3: family's lake house. 454 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, how terrifying. It's like, what could 455 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: he do to our son? Could he hold him hostage? 456 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: Could he hurt him? Might they run away together and 457 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: never to be found again? I mean, I would imagine 458 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: shouldn't police go up there and try to talk to 459 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: him or follow him or maybe arrest him. 460 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 3: With You'd think that's what would happen, But Steve says 461 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 3: it doesn't. 462 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 4: It's not as simple as Herb Baumeister took these people 463 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 4: out to his house. It's actually assaulted and MC killed 464 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 4: him and dumped him in the woods. It's not that simple. 465 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 4: It's much or complicated. 466 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 2: Next time on America's Crime Lab. 467 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 4: I was pissed because it seemed as though the investigation 468 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 4: shut down. We we're done. We're not going to try 469 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 4: to identify these people. 470 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 5: If you have a suspect in mind, or if that 471 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 5: person is in codis, you can confirm their identity. But unfortunately, 472 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 5: for most crimes, you don't have an actual suspect. You 473 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 5: don't know who might have committed the crime. And that 474 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 5: was something we couldn't live with. 475 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: And I said, hey, I hope you don't get upset 476 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: with me, but I called the Hamilton County Coroner's Office 477 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: to get this case reopen. That was one of those 478 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: soul searching moments that Okay, you've agreed to help, you're 479 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: committed to help, Now how in the heck are you 480 00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: going to do this? 481 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 2: America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. 482 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: Erica Lance is our story editor, and sound design is 483 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: by David Woji. Our producing team is Catherine Fenalosa, Emily 484 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: Foreman and Jessica Albert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, 485 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: Mangesh Hadigadour and David and Kristin Middleman and from iHeart 486 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 2: Katrina Norville and Ali Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, 487 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 2: Will Pearson, Kerrie Lieberman, Nikki Etour, Nathan Etowski, John Burbank, 488 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 2: and the entire team at Authrum. I'm Alan Lance Lesser. 489 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.