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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Why are people in Hollywood

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Speaker 1: with so much money and so many incredible blessings, Why

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Speaker 1: are they all miserable? And why do we get the

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Speaker 1: most gruesome crimes originating in one of the costiest zip

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Speaker 1: codes in the country. Right now, we're trying to get

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of three missing people and one woman's

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Speaker 1: torso and a dumpster. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: and on serious xem one eleven. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 2: Police say they got a call from one of Sam

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Speaker 2: Haskell's neighbors who reported seeing suspicious bags outside the Tarzana

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Speaker 2: home and the bags appear to have body parts in them.

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Speaker 2: LAPD Detective E from Gutierrez, but I.

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Speaker 3: Read call on the rima seventh at about five thirty

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Speaker 3: pm involved the suspicious bag they possibly contained the human remains.

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Speaker 3: When the officers responded, nothing was located.

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Speaker 2: Even though nothing was located, an investigation was launched.

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Speaker 1: This is what we know. The original call to police,

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Speaker 1: we first thought was from neighbors, but now it appears

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Speaker 1: to be from some construction workers in the area. What

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Speaker 1: a twisted story. Listen the men.

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Speaker 2: Try to report what they've seen to the police, but

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Speaker 2: are turned away twice. The men went to the Highway

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Speaker 2: of Patrol station first, but we're told they had to

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Speaker 2: go to the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD Topanga

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Speaker 2: station tells the men to go back outside and call

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Speaker 2: nine one one from the courtyard.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, I've got an all star panel to make

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Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now about three missing

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Speaker 1: people and a woman's torso that has been found in

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Speaker 1: a dumpster there in LA. But first two alexis Terrestrik

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Speaker 1: joining me from this jurisdiction crime online dot Com investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Alexis thank you for being with us. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: bottom line, Alexis police and not one, but two locations

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Speaker 1: send these citizens trying to report where they think is

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Speaker 1: a bag of body parts on a wild goose chase,

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Speaker 1: a scavenger hunt, so to speak.

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Speaker 4: They do.

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Speaker 5: They went, they had these trash bags. They thought, oh

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Speaker 5: my gosh, this is not something normal. This is probably

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Speaker 5: body parts.

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Speaker 6: We think this is what it is.

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Speaker 5: They go to a police station. The police say, well,

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Speaker 5: where did you get these bags from? Oh, you got

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Speaker 5: it from this house over there. You need to go

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Speaker 5: to that jurisdiction, didn't look at the bags nothing at all,

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Speaker 5: probably didn't even believe them. So they send it to

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Speaker 5: the next place and they're like, yeah, you gotta call

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Speaker 5: nine one one.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is right out of a movie. Let

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Speaker 1: me go to Chris mcdona joining me, director of the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a YouTube channel,

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Speaker 1: the interview room where I found him. Chris mcdona, Uh,

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Speaker 1: have you ever seen Home Alone? Okay? I know you

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Speaker 1: know where I'm going where the mom calls. I believe

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Speaker 1: this must have been Home Alone too, where she calls

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Speaker 1: from Paris and she gets sent to one person, and

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Speaker 1: then they knock on the wall and they send the

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Speaker 1: phone to the next person, and back and forth and

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Speaker 1: back and forth. She never gets the right police officer,

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Speaker 1: and finally starts calling neighbors. I know that is a funny,

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Speaker 1: a comical example of what we're talking about, but really,

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Speaker 1: these people are trying to report a bag of human

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Speaker 1: body parts and they get on a wild goose chase.

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Speaker 1: I tell you what, if I were the police chief,

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Speaker 1: which of course I'm not, I would totally clean a

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Speaker 1: house over who chose not to take a report on

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Speaker 1: a bag of body parts, Chris McDonough.

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Speaker 7: And I can bet you manswer your half percent right.

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Speaker 7: This is right out of a Hollywood horror movie. And

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Speaker 7: that police chief Moore, Michael Moore, who's a LAPD chief.

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Speaker 7: Now he's going to be questioning a lot of folks.

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Speaker 1: Well, I hope he does more than question them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you get a call about body parts, you better go

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Speaker 1: like grease lightning to investigate. And that delay cost the

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Speaker 1: case a lot of time and possibly a lot of evidence.

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Speaker 2: Let's move forward, listen, LAPD detective from Goudiera says. Early

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Speaker 2: the next morning, police received another call about human remains.

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Speaker 3: The caller was a homeless man that was digging through

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Speaker 3: the dumpster to look for recyclables and discovered what he

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Speaker 3: believed to be a human remains.

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Speaker 2: All that was recovered was the Torso fine, there were

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Speaker 2: clues in the bag just.

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Speaker 3: From a visual inst mention. The stage of the decomposition

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Speaker 3: were relatively early, so no more than a day or two.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I'm glad that an untrained cop can look in

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Speaker 1: and tell me the level of decomposition. But actually he

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Speaker 1: may be right, you know. Let me go to choice

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Speaker 1: Layton High Profile Criminal Defense attorney joining us out of

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Speaker 1: this jurisdiction LA. You know, if there were anywhere else,

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Speaker 1: I would just assume they were the same body parts,

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Speaker 1: But in LA they could be entirely a different set

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Speaker 1: of body parts. But logically speaking, Troice Layton, do you

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Speaker 1: think they could then add two plus two equals these

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Speaker 1: are the same set of body parts as we got

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Speaker 1: reported yesterday.

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Speaker 8: Well the corner and medical examiner, which are the same

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Speaker 8: here in Los Angeles, They're going to start having to

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Speaker 8: heast these things back together. So the body parts that

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Speaker 8: were recovered by these construction workers and whatever was found

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Speaker 8: by this homeless person, it's not going to take very

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Speaker 8: long for them to decide if that's the same body part.

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Speaker 8: And the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD, which is the

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Speaker 8: most elite squad in the LAPD, is going to be

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Speaker 8: investigating and try and put two and two together.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprey joining me. Forensic pathologists, medical examiner, former detective,

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Speaker 1: author of Money, Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch Saga the

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Speaker 1: rest of the story on Amazon, and she literally wrote

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Speaker 1: the book The Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Duprix. We're

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Speaker 1: all talking about bags of body parts, but to this

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Speaker 1: victim or victim's family, the discussion of body parts, that

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Speaker 1: is their loved one, that is their daughter, their sister,

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Speaker 1: or their mom, their dad, their grandpa. That we're talking

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Speaker 1: about body parts, body parts.

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Speaker 6: You're absolutely right, Nancy, these are somebody's family. They are

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Speaker 6: you know, I'm obviously very upset about this, and it's

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Speaker 6: a tragic thing to find.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not just the shock ultimately learning that you

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Speaker 1: have lost someone you love, possibly that you love more

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Speaker 1: than anything else in the world, but then finding out

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Speaker 1: that they are a crime victim, a murder victim, and

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Speaker 1: then to find out that they have been dismembered, that

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Speaker 1: their dead body has been defiled in such a horrible,

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Speaker 1: horrible way. To doctor Gary Pricato, clinical psychologist, author of

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Speaker 1: The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime.

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Speaker 1: Now that is a read, Doctor Pracato. That's a lot

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Speaker 1: for one person to take in. I mean, I remember

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Speaker 1: when my fiance was murdered. At first I just assumed

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Speaker 1: that there had been a car crash, and then I

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Speaker 1: found out he was murdered, and frankly, I don't remember

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Speaker 1: a whole lot after that. But to then learn that

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Speaker 1: someone dismembered the person you love more than anything else

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Speaker 1: in the world. I don't know. How do you make

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Speaker 1: a comeback after that?

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Speaker 9: Extremely difficult because a person would have to make some

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Speaker 9: kind of meaning out of what it is that happened

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Speaker 9: in their life, some kind of existential or spiritual meaning,

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Speaker 9: and to try to go out in the world and

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Speaker 9: battle that kind of darkness so that other people don't

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Speaker 9: have to experience it. And people that I've worked with

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Speaker 9: who have been victims of violent crime, it seems to

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Speaker 9: be the only way that they're able to make any

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Speaker 9: sense of purpose out of it. But of course my

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Speaker 9: heart goes out to the family of this poor woman.

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Speaker 1: Guys, what is happening? One set of remains found or

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Speaker 1: spotted outside of home. Police finally get there after sending

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Speaker 1: the civilian informant on a wild goose chase. When they

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Speaker 1: get there, no more remains. It's gone. They don't execute

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Speaker 1: a search warrant. They do nothing climbing. They don't have

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Speaker 1: enough evidence to execute a search warrant in the home.

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Speaker 1: The next day it's reported that there is a female

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Speaker 1: torso found in a dumpster. Let's pick it up right there.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 2: The LAPD says that when they processed the scene where

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Speaker 2: the torso in the bank were found in a dumpster,

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Speaker 2: the investigation provided detectives with information that led them to

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Speaker 2: the residence of Samuel Haskell. Police are still not saying

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Speaker 2: what they found that led the investigators to the Haskell residents.

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Speaker 2: Detective Ephram Gutierrez told ABC seven that officers made entry

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Speaker 2: at the house and discovered evidence of a crime, including

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Speaker 2: some blood evidence and other items that they are not

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Speaker 2: releasing to the public. The children have been located and

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Speaker 2: are being cared for by family members. However, Haskell's wife

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Speaker 2: and in laws have not been located.

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Speaker 1: Wow so processing the torso, something about that bag in

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Speaker 1: which the torso was placed, apparently in a plastic bag

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Speaker 1: inside a black Duffel bag, led them to the home

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Speaker 1: of Sam Haskell the Fourth who is that listen.

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Speaker 2: Sam Haskell the Fourth is the son of Sam Haskell

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Speaker 2: the Third, an Emmy Award winning producer who was a

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Speaker 2: high profile agent with Hollywood's William Morris Talent agency, where

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Speaker 2: he represented a list stars like George Clooney, Would be Goldberg,

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Speaker 2: Dolly Pardon, and many others. Haskell the Fourth list himself

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Speaker 2: as a director and posted several clips online of low

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Speaker 2: budget videos he wrote in films. Former Real Housewives of

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Speaker 2: Beverly hillstar Brandy Glanville appears in one of the clips

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Speaker 2: for a movie which appears to be a high school

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Speaker 2: teen drama. Sam Haskell the Fourth lives in a six

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Speaker 2: bedroom home in Tarzana with his wife may Lee Haskell,

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Speaker 2: their three young sons, and Maylee's parents, Gaishun Lee seventy

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Speaker 2: two and sixty four year old Yang Zhai Wang.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace back to Alexis Tereshchuk joining

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Speaker 1: us crime Aline dot com investigative reporter so. Sam Haskell

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Speaker 1: the Fourth is a son of a high powered talent

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Speaker 1: agent who was known as a quote good guy of Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: The Dad Haskell three was the CEO. I believe the

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Speaker 1: Miss America pageant for many, many years. Has I think

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Speaker 1: still working with Dolly Parton in her Magnolia productions. I

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Speaker 1: mean the dad is renowned. In fact, I think he

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Speaker 1: was the world wide head of TV work for William Morris.

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Speaker 1: Do I have that right? Haskell three the father?

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Speaker 5: He it was, but he wasn't the head of the pageants.

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Speaker 1: He was.

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Speaker 5: He separated from the pageant organization about a year ago.

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Speaker 1: Over just be regarding some emails, but correct. Then that

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Speaker 1: leads me to the son Haskell four. Now, from what

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Speaker 1: I understand, this guy Haskell four has directed a few things,

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Speaker 1: including working with Tiger and Machine Gun Kelly, but he

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Speaker 1: never reached the level of his father's thing. Is that right?

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Speaker 6: Correct?

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Speaker 5: Not in any way, shape or form. And he mostly

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Speaker 5: put things on social media where he would do videos,

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Speaker 5: you know, on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I'm so glad you said that. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a listen to Sam Haskell four, the fourth on

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Speaker 1: social media his TikTok This is our cut fourteenth.

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Speaker 10: Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently

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Speaker 10: never going to stop drinking. Shouts out to the waiter

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Speaker 10: at the restaurant above, nor drums for just like completely

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Speaker 10: burning out of my filet, Like what kind of a

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Speaker 10: monster are you?

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Speaker 5: Homie?

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Speaker 1: What what Sydney? Can I hear that again?

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Speaker 10: Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now, I'm consistently

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Speaker 10: never going to stop drinking.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to the.

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Speaker 10: Waiter at the restaurant above, nor drums for just like

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Speaker 10: completely burning of my filet. Like, what kind of a

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Speaker 10: monster are you?

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Speaker 11: Homie?

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Speaker 1: Okay, this guy, Sam Haskell the fourth is living in

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Speaker 1: a nearly three million dollars home in Tarzana, which is

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Speaker 1: a really beautiful area around LA. He's got an enclosed

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Speaker 1: backyard I've seen it myself, with a gorgeous pool, a

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Speaker 1: play area for his children, the works. It's a sixth

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Speaker 1: bedroom home, and he is whining that he's unhappy, bitter

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Speaker 1: and resentful, he's never going to stop drinking. Thanks for sharing,

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Speaker 1: and complaining that the waiter at the restaurant on top

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Speaker 1: of North Stroms. I guess it's at the Tapanga Mall.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. North Troms, which is a really expensive

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Speaker 1: department store, burned his filet mignon. Okay, Alexis, tell me

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Speaker 1: about this area, because I've seen it and it's really beautiful.

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Speaker 4: It is.

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Speaker 5: It's Tarzana is part of Los Angeles County. It's a

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Speaker 5: little bit away from downtown. It's in the valley. But

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Speaker 5: so it's beautiful, lush, green homes, very spaced out, not

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Speaker 5: right on top of each other at all, you know,

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Speaker 5: tree lined streets, really good schools around there, nice areas

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Speaker 5: for your kids to play, nice you know, restaurants and

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Speaker 5: malls where you could take your kids, parks, you know

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Speaker 5: the dumpster. Everything is right near a park. Just a

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Speaker 5: lovely area that for somebody who doesn't seem to work,

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Speaker 5: you would think probably maybe his parents bought this very

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Speaker 5: expensive home for him and they just moved there in

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Speaker 5: December of twenty twenty, So in the middle of the

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Speaker 5: pandemic they moved.

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Speaker 1: And joining me right now is a special guest. It

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Speaker 1: is l been of me. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: We're all trying to figure out what exacts actte is happening.

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Speaker 1: You are a friend and neighbor of May and Sam

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Speaker 1: Haskell the fourth. What can you tell us about them?

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Speaker 6: So they moved to.

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Speaker 4: The neighborhood, like you said, in December twenty twenty January

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, during the pandemic, and from the beginning

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Speaker 4: I did think that they were. It struck me that

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Speaker 4: they were very different Sam and May. He was She's

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Speaker 4: extremely outgoing. Right when she moved in here, she came

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Speaker 4: around and she introduced herself and she wanted to make

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Speaker 4: plans with us and the kids. And he was not

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Speaker 4: like that. He would you know, say hello if I

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Speaker 4: saw him on the street, maybe kind of like nod

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Speaker 4: his head. He would smile, So he was outwardly friendly.

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Speaker 4: But in the I guess three years that he lived

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Speaker 4: next to us, I never actually had a conversation with him,

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Speaker 4: But with Mate, it was very different. I had many,

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Speaker 4: many long conversations with her, took many long walks, and

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Speaker 4: I can't say the same for him.

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Speaker 1: Question, you spent time with May, and I know that

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Speaker 1: May lived in the home with her parents, ages seventy

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Speaker 1: two and sixty four. What was she like?

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Speaker 4: I was just a very very sweet person. I very generous,

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Speaker 4: very sweet, very caring, would kind of get excited about

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Speaker 4: small things, kind of a bit in like a I guess,

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Speaker 4: a childlike way, which was very endearing. She loved to

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Speaker 4: be around people. She threw many parties. She was very dedicated,

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Speaker 4: dedicated to her three boys and always threw them really

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Speaker 4: amazing birthday parties, really went all out. She you know,

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Speaker 4: three parties for Chinese New Year, and she always loved

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Speaker 4: to make plans, make sure, you know, her boys have

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Speaker 4: a lot of things planned out, and also took them

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Speaker 4: to many extracurricular activities after school, from music to sports

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Speaker 4: to you know, advanced maths, and so on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that is a mom that cares. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: been there, and I know the ages of her children

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Speaker 1: are three boys, You're constantly in the road taking one

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Speaker 1: to music or this one to gymnastics, or this one

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Speaker 1: to soccer or whatever it is that they latch onto

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Speaker 1: that they like. And I mean I'm that way with two.

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Speaker 1: I can only imagine what it's like with three. What

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Speaker 1: was her relationship with Haskell?

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Speaker 4: For so, I will say that she never really discussed

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Speaker 4: a relationship with him with me, but just from observing them,

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Speaker 4: I would say that they weren't close. They didn't have

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Speaker 4: anywhere near a close, you know, a close relationship. I

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Speaker 4: would definitely not call it that. Never seen them be

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Speaker 4: affectionate with each other. They never went on date nights.

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Speaker 4: She never mentioned them going on a date. I never

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Speaker 4: observed them going out anywhere together. They didn't go on

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Speaker 4: vacations together. So she would go on vacation with her

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Speaker 4: children and her parents, and he typically went on solo

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Speaker 4: trips I think, typically to Japan. According to May, some

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Speaker 4: of them were work related for filming. They both, for example,

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Speaker 4: like to take walks in the neighborhood. I never saw

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Speaker 4: them take a walk together.

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Speaker 1: You know that's that's really interesting. Elle, And guys, you're

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Speaker 1: hearing a friend and neighbor of May and Sam Haskell

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Speaker 1: the fourth Troy Slayton. I'm just trying to imagine this

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Speaker 1: where you go. I mean, maybe it's because of schedule,

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Speaker 1: but I try really hard to make it so my

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Speaker 1: husband and I can go on walks together or jog together.

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Speaker 1: If I can't get him, I try to get one

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Speaker 1: of the twins, just because that's forty minutes to an

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Speaker 1: hour that you can not just walk, but you can

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Speaker 1: talk to each other.

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Speaker 8: Nancy, that's something very important. I love to take walks

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Speaker 8: with my spouse here in beautiful Los Angeles. But he

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Speaker 8: lived with his in laws too. And I'm not making

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Speaker 8: any kind of excuse, but people sometimes in that situation

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Speaker 8: feel trapped. They feel that there are no boundaries and

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Speaker 8: starting to think about what some of the defenses might

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Speaker 8: be psychologically for him.

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Speaker 1: And they lived with his ant laws. Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 1: I've got my ninety two year old mother with ay, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you know who's the very sweetest to her. My husband.

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Speaker 1: He feels trapped. He hasn't said, so.

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Speaker 8: That's nice, but a lot of people suffer tremendous psychological

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Speaker 8: stress from living with their in laws.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I can't wait to see how that goes over.

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Speaker 1: Was that you l about to say something?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was going to say that May's parents they

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Speaker 4: were I mean, of course, I don't know what went

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Speaker 4: on inside their home, but from what I could see,

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Speaker 4: they seem to be extremely helpful. Anytime I observed them

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Speaker 4: with the children, they always both of them were actively,

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Speaker 4: you know, chasing after them, helping. Her mom cooked a lot,

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Speaker 4: I think, pretty much daily for them and for the

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Speaker 4: kids when May for birthday parties. It was not Sam

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Speaker 4: that helped in any way. Was her parents. Even though

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Speaker 4: they didn't English, they were constantly actively helping. And you know,

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Speaker 4: and her mom had suffered a stroke prior to COVID,

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Speaker 4: and so she did use or she does use a

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Speaker 4: chance to walk. That didn't stop her from being always

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Speaker 4: on her feet and.

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Speaker 1: Helping, you know, just thinking about the dynamic you're telling us.

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Speaker 1: But I want to circle back very quickly to something

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Speaker 1: Alexis Toreschuk was reporting earlier. I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to these day laborers. They constructure workers take us to

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Speaker 1: hour cut to from Dave.

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Speaker 2: Mac twenty five miles west of downtown Los Angeles, in

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Speaker 2: an area once owned by famed author Edgar Rice Burrows

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Speaker 2: and named for his famous character Tarzan. Tarzana is in

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Speaker 2: the San Fernando Valley and has become a popular place

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Speaker 2: for celebrities and those in the entertainment world to go home.

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Speaker 2: It's also where Sam Haskell paid a group of day

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Speaker 2: laborers five hundred dollars to halloway three large trash bags

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Speaker 2: that were in his garage. Speaking to NBC for Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: the workers said Haskell told them the bags were full

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Speaker 2: of rocks, but the workers said when they picked up

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Speaker 2: the bags they felt like there was meat inside. Realizing

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Speaker 2: what they were carrying wasn't rocks, the workers pulled over

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Speaker 2: about a block from Haskell's house to look inside the bag.

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Speaker 2: Opening the bags, the men knew they'd been tricked.

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Speaker 1: And more listen.

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Speaker 2: The men described the bags to NBC four as soft

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Speaker 2: and soggy and each weighing about fifty pounds. A block

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Speaker 2: away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags

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Speaker 2: and said they started seeing body parts, specifically a belly button.

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Speaker 2: The men said they felt bad they'd been tricked, so

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Speaker 2: they drove back to Haskell's house and left the bags

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Speaker 2: in the driveway and gave Haskell his five hundred dollars back.

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Speaker 2: Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually

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Speaker 2: saw were Halloween props. Not believing Haskell, the men drove

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Speaker 2: immediately to the police.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Alexistereschak crime online dot Com investigative reporter joining us

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Speaker 1: from LA what.

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Speaker 5: So he hired this some men day laborers that you

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Speaker 5: go to maybe home depot or somewhere like that. You say, hey, guys,

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Speaker 5: I've got some heavy things in my house. These men

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Speaker 5: are usually big, strong men, and they have trucks. They

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Speaker 5: come to your house. So that's what they did. They

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Speaker 5: took the bags and he said, oh, they're rocks. Well,

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Speaker 5: rocks are really heavy and they don't move, but you

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Speaker 5: can't squish them. But these bags were heavy and squishy,

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Speaker 5: and the guys their description was it felt like meat.

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Speaker 5: So they were, you know, like a huge hunk of meat,

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Speaker 5: squishy but still a little solid. They looked in the bags,

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Speaker 5: they saw what it was, and what they specifically described

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Speaker 5: was they saw a belly button like the torso from

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Speaker 5: you know, above your waist, below your chest, you're below

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Speaker 5: your nets and that was horrific. So they took the

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Speaker 5: bags back. The guy gave them their money. They gave

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Speaker 5: them money back, and then they went to the police.

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Speaker 5: They go to the first police station they can find.

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Speaker 5: The police said, well, that's not actually our jurisdiction. One E,

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Speaker 5: goo to this other police station or call nine one one.

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Speaker 5: These guys come in with sure, it's a little bit

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Speaker 5: of a wild story, but you should investigate this. This

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Speaker 5: is really they're not telling you anything that is out

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Speaker 5: of the Norman Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: Everything you're saying, I believe it's correct. But what's jumping

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Speaker 1: out of me is changing his story. First, the bag

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Speaker 1: is full of rocks. Yeah, Then he says, oh, those

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Speaker 1: are just Halloween props. Even though it looks like human

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Speaker 1: body parts, that's so human body and yeah. Then the

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Speaker 1: next thing we know, a bag of human body parts

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Speaker 1: turns up in a dumpster. But let me take it back.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is a neighbor of May and Sam Haskell. Fourth, May,

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Speaker 1: the mother of three little boys by Haskell ll question,

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Speaker 1: what if anything did you hear the previous night?

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Speaker 4: So I was not home the previous night, but yes,

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Speaker 4: my daughter she actually texted to us that night, she

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Speaker 4: heard what she thought was the youngest boy from their

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Speaker 4: house or perhaps from the yard, shout hello, Hello, help,

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Speaker 4: and then she heard a car door slam and loud screeching.

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Speaker 4: I guess of the car drove off?

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, did you saw that? Down? And tell

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Speaker 1: me one more time?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So my daughter texted us at around nine pm

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Speaker 4: on Tuesday, the night before the torso was found, that

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Speaker 4: she heard what she believed to be the high school's

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Speaker 4: youngest boy coming to basically maybe from the house or

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Speaker 4: from the yard, call out hello, hello, and then help.

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Speaker 4: And then she heard a car door slam really hard

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Speaker 4: and screeching sound, a loud screeching.

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Speaker 1: As it drove off and joining me. Now is doctor Trace,

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Speaker 1: sergeant search rescue, recovery expert at PhD In psychology, I

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Speaker 1: focus on victimology, star of a podcast, The Seekers Quest.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Sargent, thank you for being with us. You look

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Speaker 1: specifically at predatory behavior. What do you make of someone

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Speaker 1: that I only commits some murder but then dismembers the body?

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, we look at several things, but I'd like

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Speaker 6: to go back to Sam Hassel's The fourth comments and

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Speaker 6: social media that in itself tells us a lot when

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Speaker 6: we're looking at it from a criminal profile perspective, behavioral analysis,

435
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 6: psychological analysis, and what is glaring to me is that

436
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 6: he perceives himself as the victim. And I would not

437
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 6: be surprised when this case and this story moves forward

438
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 6: that he presents himself as the victim and maybe even

439
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 6: go with far as blaming the circumstances that led to

440
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 6: the death of his wife and probably his in laws

441
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 6: that it was somehow their fault, not his fault. He

442
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 6: will not take accountability or responsibility for his action.

443
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that, doctor Bracato.

444
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 9: Well, I have a few things to say about this case,

445
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 9: and I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely

446
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 9: suited to look at it because it touches on two

447
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 9: areas that have been major ones for me in my research.

448
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 9: First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished.

449
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 9: I worked with doctor Ann Burgess, doctor Victor Patrica, Michael Stone,

450
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 9: doctor Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to

451
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 9: distinguish those offenses. It's important for people to understand the dismemberment,

452
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 9: according to our work, really means the destruction in a

453
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 9: removal of a large part of the body, the torso,

454
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 9: the arms, hand, helvis, legs, or feet, and any destruction

455
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 9: or elimination of a smaller part thereof of any you know,

456
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 9: it would be mutilation. And the reason it's important is

457
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 9: there are differences in the psychology and motives of people

458
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 9: according to which of those things they're doing. What it

459
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 9: sounds like here. We don't know how much butchery there was,

460
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 9: but this sounds like dismemberment offense. And with dismemberment, we

461
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 9: found in our research that the vast majority offenders are

462
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 9: doing that to get rid of body parts because of

463
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 9: concern about capture. The outside you know, looking in makes

464
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 9: it seem like it's some kind of bizarre, psychotic, crazy

465
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 9: thing to do, but the reality is it's a pretty

466
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 9: organized thing to do that's done by a person that's

467
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 9: trying to clean up after they've eliminated people. Now, the

468
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 9: other thing that I can kind of put some in

469
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 9: a unique position here is I know that, you know,

470
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 9: there's been a charge that this man has killed not

471
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 9: only this woman but her parents, which would place him

472
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 9: in the category of mass murder. When I was at

473
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 9: Columbia Medical Center, I led the largest study ever done

474
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 9: of mass murder. And what I can tell you is

475
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 9: is that in order to know the motives of a

476
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 9: person who commits mass murder, we have to know what

477
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 9: was used to kill. If a gun is used, there's

478
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 9: a very low likelihood that the person was seriously disturbed

479
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 9: or mentally ill. If something else was used, like a knife,

480
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 9: then we start thinking that this was an individual who

481
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 9: was unwell in some way the statistics, it becomes much

482
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 9: more probable that the person was disturbed.

483
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: If they use a knife. Is that what you said?

484
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 9: Yes, the use of a knife would be more of

485
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 9: a giveaway that you're dealing with somebody that would be

486
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 9: authentically odd interpersonally a little more kind of unwell. Right?

487
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: Are you saying insane? Not insane, just odd? Odd?

488
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 9: For example, the end of visual might be paranoid or

489
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 9: a little bit aggressive.

490
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: Are you talking about someone that kills and as members

491
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: with a knife.

492
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 9: Talking about someone who commits mass murder using a knife, Well.

493
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: What doesn't it good without saying that they're odd?

494
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: Well?

495
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: Odd?

496
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 9: And when I say odd, I don't mean odd because

497
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 9: you've committed murder or anything like that. I mean odd

498
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 9: that even at baseline, the person would say, peculiar things

499
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 9: would be a little bit kind of odd to the

500
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 9: average individual. Hot headed, a little paranoid, a little peculiar,

501
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 9: And that matches what we're hearing and that weird recording

502
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 9: from TikTok and some of these stories about the detachment

503
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 9: and the coldness between the members of the family. Now,

504
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 9: what's interesting about this is when we see these kinds

505
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 9: of cases where you know, there's been this explosive potential

506
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 9: killing of a family and then there's dismemberment, there's usually

507
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 9: one of two reasons it happens. One is elimination murder,

508
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 9: as I term it, which is where the idea is

509
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 9: to simply get rid of them because they are an

510
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 9: impediment to something like, for example, I want to have

511
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 9: a new romance, or I am trying to get my

512
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 9: hands on some money. The other that you see is

513
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 9: some kind of domestic matter that causes an emotional disruption

514
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 9: and somebody in an absolute rage kills someone and then

515
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 9: has to kill everyone who has witnessed it in the family.

516
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 9: So that what I would suppose, if it turns out

517
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 9: that this is indeed a mass murder followed by dismemberment,

518
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 9: was that there was some kind of hot headed, angry,

519
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 9: odd person who became enraged or had a motive to

520
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 9: get rid of these people did so and then attempted

521
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 9: in a clumsy, weird way to hide it. And the

522
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,239
Speaker 9: reason it's so odd and the stories are ridiculous is

523
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 9: often that the person is odd and lacks that kind

524
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 9: of interpersonal empathy to kind of pick up that people

525
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 9: would think these stories were weird.

526
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the Haskell's neighbor l benemy Elle question.

527
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: I know you spent a good bit of time with may.

528
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: Do you have any knowledge of Haskell having a fixation

529
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: for on martial arts and kept samurai swords and crossbows

530
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: in them?

531
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I did. I did notice that about him.

532
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 4: I know that she mentioned that he would direct or

533
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 4: produce martial arts related movies or videos, or that he

534
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 4: would go on martial arts trips to Japan. I believe,

535
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 4: and I don't know why I remember this, but I

536
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 4: seem to recall that he may have a black belt

537
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 4: or a couple of blood belts in different martial arts,

538
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 4: and and then I did know about their having various

539
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 4: weapons in the house, such as stores and samurai swords.

540
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 4: I believe acrossbow firearms, so that that's definitely something that

541
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 4: they very top of mind for me as a mom

542
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: of four living next door.

543
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: Did her May's children tell your children about all the

544
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: weapons to the point you did not want your children

545
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: alone at their home upstairs?

546
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 4: Yes, so they did mention that to my kids, several

547
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 4: points about let's say a Semurai sword or pointing up

548
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 4: to where supposedly a specific firearm was kept. So that

549
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 4: made me very nervous about them going upstairs to one

550
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 4: of the bedrooms. I did, of course, I trust me,

551
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 4: and I did really like her three boys, so I

552
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 4: was happy for them to play with my kids. I

553
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 4: just didn't want there to be any accidents, because you know,

554
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 4: you're sometimes hear about that on the news, so I

555
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 4: wanted them to be somewhere where I didn't think, you know,

556
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 4: a weapon might be pulled out to play with as

557
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 4: a tool or whatever.

558
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, we are hearing various reports

559
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: that Sam Haskell, the fourth age thirty five, was obsessed

560
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: with weapons and directed videos very disturbing videos with men

561
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: fighting with swords and samuraiz, posting them under the name

562
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: the Instagram name Tragic Streets, with a Z on the end,

563
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: and this is the guy complaining about the Norse troms

564
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: upstairs restaurant scorching his filet, his filet mignon. Okay, in

565
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: the last hours, Alexis Tereschuk, we now know the case

566
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: has per rest. What's happening now?

567
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 5: So he has been charged with murder for the three people,

568
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 5: even though we don't have bodies for all three. The

569
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 5: district attorney has charged him with murder and he has

570
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 5: appeared in court. He was arrested last week, but because

571
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 5: it was a Veterans Day weekend and a federal holiday,

572
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 5: he did not appear in court until Monday. He has

573
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 5: appeared in court. There is no bond, he cannot bond out.

574
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 5: There's no amount of money that he can pay to

575
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 5: get out of jail.

576
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 1: Right now.

577
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 5: He has not entered a plea. The arraignment has scheduled

578
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 5: for December eighth, so he will be in jail with

579
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 5: no way to get out between now and then.

580
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: And I assume the search is still ongoing. In the

581
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: outside chance her apparents may still be alive. But don't LAPD.

582
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: Don't they believe that Torso is In fact?

583
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 5: May they do believe it? Is her. There are also

584
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 5: two other cars missing that were registered to the parents,

585
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 5: which I think could be, you know, a distraction tactic.

586
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 5: You know, they dump the car somewhere else and think, oh,

587
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 5: the parents just left on their own, but it doesn't

588
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 5: seem like that, but they do believe the torso belongs

589
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 5: to her.

590
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm gonna circle bout to Troy Slayton

591
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: on the fact that if Sam Haskell four has hidden

592
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: the cars to make them appear to be stolen, that

593
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: clearly shows he knows what he's doing and is taking

594
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: measures to throw police off the trail. Doctor Michelle Dupree,

595
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: how do we determine if that torso is in fact

596
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: the mother of three may Haskell?

597
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 6: Well, obviously the best way to do that is through DNA,

598
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 6: which we should have plenty of. To compare it to

599
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 6: when we have a torso and nothing else and we

600
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 6: don't have a presumed victim, it's much much harder. In

601
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 6: this case, however, we should be able to determine that

602
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 6: relatively quickly.

603
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: To Chris mcdonne and joining me, director Cole Case Foundation,

604
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: former homicide detective and host of the Interview Room on YouTube,

605
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 1: what do you blie they found in that home. They're

606
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: not saying, so, Nancy, there's a couple of things.

607
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 7: Two points from an investigative aspect. Number one is the

608
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 7: HSS team is involved. Who those guys are called the

609
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 7: Homicide Special Section and they only deal with high profile

610
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 7: like dismemberments, that type of stuff, serial killing. They're out

611
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 7: of robbery homicide downtown. The second to your question is,

612
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 7: you know, the first question they're going to want to

613
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 7: establish is, you know, did this individual have the mental

614
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 7: capacity to know what they were doing. So they went

615
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 7: back into that house and they probably used you know,

616
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 7: various type of alternate light sources, blue star, you know,

617
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 7: room and all that type of stuff, And what they

618
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 7: wanted to do was establish if in fact there's any

619
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 7: blood evidence and or any other forensic evidence that immediately

620
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 7: can establish how many people are potentially involved in this.

621
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 7: And then they can take DNA swab. Let's say, hypothetically

622
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 7: they plown some blood and they can put it through

623
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 7: a machine called Andy A and d I, and that

624
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 7: is a rapid DNA machine, And what that does is

625
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 7: just tells you you have three types of DNA here.

626
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 7: So that's probably what they're operating under. You know, currently

627
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 7: and that's why they charge him.

628
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: With pre victims, even though as of right now the

629
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: remains of the parents the in laws have not been found,

630
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: Choice Layton, If Haskell four hid the cars, there's no

631
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: way he's going to be able to succeed. He might

632
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: make a claim of insanity, but by hiding the cars

633
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: or taking countermeasures to throw police off his trail, that

634
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: clearly shows he knows what he did was wrong. Of course,

635
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: right now these are only allegations.

636
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 11: Go ahead, Royce Layton, Nancy, prosecutors would a be lee

637
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 11: like yourself would have used that as consciousness of guilt

638
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 11: and taking steps to clear your tracks to create alternate

639
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 11: versions of how this could have happened shows consciousness of guilt.

640
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 8: And the fact that his arraignment was continued for several

641
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 8: weeks is not unusual. That means his attorney gave up

642
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 8: and waived his constitutional right to a speedy arraignment which

643
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 8: starts the preliminary hearing and then trial process, so that

644
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 8: way his attorney can start to do their own investigation

645
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 8: and maybe try to come up with alternate versions of

646
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 8: what happened. Maybe there was some sort of murder with

647
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 8: other people involved. Maybe Haskell was involved. Maybe there was

648
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 8: some other people involved as well.

649
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 11: So the fact.

650
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 8: That this has been put over is not unusual. And

651
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 8: what is unusual is for our district attorney here in

652
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 8: La Gascon to charge special circumstances murder.

653
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: You know, I love the way. Have you ever considered

654
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: creative writing because your theory that somebody else was involved?

655
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: I love that theory.

656
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 8: Well, I was an English literature major at UCLA, Nancy,

657
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 8: maybe there's.

658
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: A second career for you in that. I'm just trying

659
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: to figure out. Also, why this judge that just had

660
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: Haskell four in court is Judge Kimberly Baker Gillemet. She

661
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: refused to allow his Sam Haskell the fourth face be seen.

662
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: Why because his father is a multi millionaire. I haven't

663
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: seen no. Then why that doesn't happen with anyone else.

664
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: It's an open courtroom.

665
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 8: It is an open courtroom, but the judge controls the

666
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 8: court room.

667
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, So why is he getting special treatment because his

668
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: dad is powerful?

669
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 8: Why there may be investigative reasons? Why there could be

670
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 8: there could be considerations for family or victims they're dead, Well,

671
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 8: there are three children. There are three minor children that

672
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 8: are still alive. And that he is the father of

673
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 8: and so there are other considerations. There are other people

674
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 8: involved and that could be affected, and they don't even

675
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 8: have the bodies yet for for a potential place.

676
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: The judge did a backflip to protect this guy. I mean,

677
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: have you seen why is he getting special treatment? Because

678
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: his father is a multi millionaire and he's a spoiled

679
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: brat that complains about his filet Mignon. You know, I'm

680
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: gonna go last to l Benemey, friend and neighbor of

681
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: May and Haskell four. I'm just curious how you feel

682
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: that he has to go Four is getting special treatment and

683
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: we don't even know where May's head is. Just this

684
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: is bass Ackwards.

685
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 4: Right, I mean I understand what he just said now

686
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,959
Speaker 4: about maybe something related to his kids, but I'm sure

687
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 4: by now his boys, uh you know what's going on? Yeah,

688
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 4: I mean what of course everything now is it's just allegations.

689
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 4: But what he is believed to have done is is

690
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 4: completely outrageous, infuriating.

691
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 6: That.

692
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 4: I mean I still even a week later, and nearly

693
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 4: a week later, I can't even believe that. I can't

694
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 4: believe that that can be a reality. So yeah, I

695
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 4: don't think he should get any special treatment. I don't

696
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 4: think that he will.

697
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: When you were around him, what was he like?

698
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 4: El so I will you know, I will say that

699
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 4: yes he did. He did come off as very eccentric

700
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 4: and didn't have, you know, the same social graces that

701
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 4: may had. He wasn't interpersonally, He didn't come off as

702
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 4: just you know, a regular person. He he wouldn't you know,

703
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 4: if I saw him on the street or in the car,

704
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 4: he wouldn't necessarily avoid eye contact. He would just kind

705
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 4: of not and smile and sort.

706
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 6: Of stay hi.

707
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 4: Or if if we walked past each other, say on

708
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 4: the street, he he would say Hi, how are you?

709
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 4: I'm great. So it was very I mean, a little

710
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 4: bit fake, I guess because I never actually had a

711
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 4: conversation with him, so I wouldn't say that we were friendly.

712
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 4: But he was polite, I guess it's the word. And

713
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 4: when I when I observed him in social situations, like

714
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 4: I said at a party that that may through he

715
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 4: he was really off to the side, kind of like

716
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 4: I described, you know, saying hi, not ignoring anyone, but

717
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 4: off to the side and disappearing a lot. You can

718
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 4: kind of you could kind of tell that he just

719
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 4: didn't want to be there, or didn't feel comfortable being

720
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 4: around people, or maybe having people at his house. I'm

721
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 4: not sure, but yeah, he was off to the side.

722
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 4: I never saw him have a conversation with any single person.

723
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 4: In fact, in the three years that he lived next

724
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 4: to me, we.

725
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: Wait as justice and false. Goodbye friend,