Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's
Speaker 1: fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's
Speaker 1: a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who
Speaker 1: built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow
Speaker 1: during the Depression, but today not many people know about him.
Speaker 1: The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last
Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest
Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people.
Speaker 1: Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I
Speaker 1: grew up exactly like them. Check out the ARTHI and
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Speaker 1: R I R A M show. Listen to the Art
Speaker 1: the Industry M Show on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Oh,
Speaker 1: whenever you get to your podcasts. No Wagner family DNA
Speaker 1: was found on a crime scene. Does it matter to
Speaker 1: this case? I would say that they absolutely need some
Speaker 1: sort of physical evidence. It clearly isn't happening with the DNA.
Speaker 1: Does the shoe prints and it's the ballistics that's without
Speaker 1: Guy juror's eyes were glued to the latest witness to
Speaker 1: testify in George Wagner the Fourth's murder trial. This is
Speaker 1: the Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County season four,
Speaker 1: episode nine, Connecting the dots. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television
Speaker 1: producer at KATI Studios, with Stephanie Ladecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: It's important to note that George Wagner has pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, has also pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff speaking about
Speaker 1: some of the revelations from the autopsy results. They mentioned
Speaker 1: doctor Karen Luhman, who you may remember is the forensic
Speaker 1: pathologist who performed ali at autopsies and testified at the
Speaker 1: child How were three people at Dana Roden's home shot
Speaker 1: in their sleep? I just am trying to wrap my
Speaker 1: head around how the perpetrators were able to walk around
Speaker 1: home shooting one person at a time without waking anyone
Speaker 1: else up. And also, one thing that I thought was
Speaker 1: interesting about Lumen's testimony was how she determined that some
Speaker 1: of the shots fired that night were what she called
Speaker 1: at intermediate range, which is essentially anywhere between three inches
Speaker 1: and three feet from someone, and then others weren't. She said,
Speaker 1: that's based on something called stippling, or actual evidence of
Speaker 1: damage to the victim, based on how close the muzzle
Speaker 1: of the gun was to the victim itself. Some victims
Speaker 1: had that, and we're seemingly shot at close range, but
Speaker 1: some didn't. So the choreographing of all of that seems
Speaker 1: so complicated. Who was where when? This morning? Lead Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Angie Kaneppa begins by addressing exactly this question. Back on
Speaker 1: the stand, is doctor Karen Lehman speaking about Hannah Hazel
Speaker 1: Gilly's injuries? Can you tell us we are was gunshot
Speaker 1: wound number one located on the diagram? Number one is
Speaker 1: on the far left. It looks like it's on the
Speaker 1: right forehead. It's a little more on the side of
Speaker 1: the forehead. Doctor, Can you tell us what did you
Speaker 1: determine the distance to be of that gunshot wound? That
Speaker 1: is intermediate And again that intermediate is somewhere not contact
Speaker 1: or lose contact, but somewhere less than three feet. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: shots two, three, and four were indeterminate, while shot five
Speaker 1: was again close range or what she calls intermediate. When
Speaker 1: you conducted your examination of Hannah Rode in how many
Speaker 1: gunshot wounds did you observe her to have? Two? And
Speaker 1: can you tell us if you determined a distance? Yes?
Speaker 1: And what was that it was indeterminate? Kneppa has a
Speaker 1: chart where she keeps track of the myriad of gunshots,
Speaker 1: some at a distance, some close, all while the victims
Speaker 1: were asleep. Then she brings up the idea of how
Speaker 1: this might be affected by the use of a silencer.
Speaker 1: And doctor loman I believe you testified to this before.
Speaker 1: But do you know or do you have an opinion
Speaker 1: if there was a silencer used on a weapon, would
Speaker 1: that possibly impact your distance determinations? It possibly could, Yes, Okay,
Speaker 1: the defense has no choice but to address the introduction
Speaker 1: of a possible use of a silencer as well. On
Speaker 1: the last one of the last points, the prosecute made
Speaker 1: the silence, how would that impact your determination of distance?
Speaker 1: A silencer in general would fit around or in the
Speaker 1: area of the muzzle, and it could capture some of
Speaker 1: the soot or stipling that normally would have landed on
Speaker 1: clothes or the body, it may capture that. So, if
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, the distance could actually be
Speaker 1: closer than what you have observed. Yes, this is a
Speaker 1: turning point in the trial. It's the first of many
Speaker 1: loose threads that the prosecution finally begins to weave together
Speaker 1: for a jury, a public, and a media weary after
Speaker 1: weeks of detail specific testimony. So far, the prosecution has
Speaker 1: worked in a meticulous linear fashion, laying out they narrative
Speaker 1: that they want the jury to consider. Here's long crime
Speaker 1: reporter a Jeanette Levy. I've covered a lot of trials
Speaker 1: in my career, a lot of criminal cases, but I've
Speaker 1: never seen one presented in this fashion in court, where
Speaker 1: it's all chronological or goes in chronological order of the investigation.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a two and a half year investigation
Speaker 1: between the time of the homicides and the arrest. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it just feels like we're bouncing around a lot. You know,
Speaker 1: it'll be up to the jury to determent whether or
Speaker 1: not that was a good strategy. I've often wondered, are
Speaker 1: they confused by this? Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. When it comes to
Speaker 1: physical evidence, it's the shoe prints, and it's the ballistics
Speaker 1: that's without God. And this is exactly how the prosecution
Speaker 1: begins to connect the dots and tighten the news on
Speaker 1: George and the Wagner family. Today, prosecutors present some of
Speaker 1: the most crucial evidence yet in the trial of George
Speaker 1: Wagner the Fourth in the Pike County massacre. Local twelve
Speaker 1: James Pilcher reports on key footprints that were found at
Speaker 1: the scene. Susan Elliott, a shoeprint specialist for the Ohia
Speaker 1: Bureau of Criminal Investigation at the time of the murders,
Speaker 1: declined to be on camera with her testimony, but she
Speaker 1: matched footprints found at the first crime scene with an
Speaker 1: actual shoe style in size. Juror's eyes were glued to
Speaker 1: the latest witness to testify in George Wagner the Fourth's
Speaker 1: murder trial as she opened large pizza boxes inside pieces
Speaker 1: of flooring cut from one of the Pike County crime seats,
Speaker 1: the trailer on Union Hill Road where Chris Rodin Senior
Speaker 1: and Gary Rodin were murdered. She said these impressions that
Speaker 1: have since been enhanced were not in the Crime Labs
Speaker 1: shoe database. You may recall from last season the testimony
Speaker 1: of shoeprint expert William Bodsiac during pre trial motions. Bodsiac,
Speaker 1: who worked on the oj Simpson case, stated that investigators
Speaker 1: finally found the model shoe that made the prince at Walmart.
Speaker 1: It was Susan Elliott who made the actual discovery. James Pilcher,
Speaker 1: She's the one who found at all. She was the
Speaker 1: one that newd'll be looking out for the Walmart shoes
Speaker 1: because she remembered, you know, our shoeprin expert found these
Speaker 1: shoes of Walmarts, so we need to be looking for
Speaker 1: anything for Walmar. Here is testimony for Brian Scheiterer had
Speaker 1: BCI investigator who provided testimony the same day about how
Speaker 1: they use that information. As a result of learning that
Speaker 1: you were looking for a size eleven shoe that you
Speaker 1: believed belonged to whoever committed these murders, or at least
Speaker 1: one of the individuals, what did you guys do in
Speaker 1: response to that information? It was decided that we would
Speaker 1: contact the Walmarts within a fifty mile radius of Pike
Speaker 1: County and asked for all their records for transactions and
Speaker 1: holding that shoe dated back to January first of twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: In in addition to getting the records of any transactions,
Speaker 1: did you also get a request and receive video surveillance
Speaker 1: that corresponded with those Yes. As we know from previous episodes,
Speaker 1: this is how the recorded video of Angela buying the
Speaker 1: same model she is was found. Subsequently, they then seized
Speaker 1: a receipt from the purchase. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike
Speaker 1: Allen and your expertise as a lawyer. How big is
Speaker 1: this piece of evidence? It's really big because you've got
Speaker 1: the receipt for purchasing them, they match up in size,
Speaker 1: and then of course she got the bloody footprint in
Speaker 1: one of the trailers. So it's very strong evidence. And
Speaker 1: I think that's something that the jury is going to
Speaker 1: be thinking about. And do you think, you know without
Speaker 1: DNA evidence, this shoeprint is maybe the closest thing we have.
Speaker 1: How much weight can the prosecution put on it? Well,
Speaker 1: I think they can put a lot of weight on it.
Speaker 1: I mean, the odds of it being some kind of
Speaker 1: coincidence are in the millions, So I think they'll put
Speaker 1: a lot of weight on it's it's real strong evidence
Speaker 1: for the state. What's the defense's counter argument to this?
Speaker 1: How do they defend the shoeprint? I guess you would
Speaker 1: have to argue that it's a pretty popular brand of
Speaker 1: shoe at Walmart. You'd have to do your homework and it.
Speaker 1: I don't know any other way to do that, because,
Speaker 1: like I said, it's such strong evidence, you'd have to
Speaker 1: argue that, well, you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 1: But they were in a real tough position on that one.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they're going to do it. You're
Speaker 1: just gonna have to argue coincidence, and I don't think
Speaker 1: the jury's going to buy that. Here's forensic death investigator
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, for me, shoe prints till everything.
Speaker 1: The shoe prints are indicative of purpose. They're indicative of
Speaker 1: thought and care being taken when it comes to planning.
Speaker 1: Because from where did the shoe prints originate? Well, they
Speaker 1: originated from a pear shoes that were purchased for the
Speaker 1: sole purpose of, you know, following through with this horrible plan.
Speaker 1: We've already got Angela Wagner actually stating that she purchased
Speaker 1: the shoes and for them to have the utility to
Speaker 1: go out for them to commit these crops. Next, Angel
Speaker 1: Wilson turns to ballistics mister White, where do you work?
Speaker 1: I work at the Bureau of Criminal Investigation also known
Speaker 1: as BCA in London, Ohio. We have been able to
Speaker 1: gather from preliminary motions and prosecution filings that there is
Speaker 1: a connection, they assert between shell casings found at at
Speaker 1: least one of the crime scenes and weapons link back
Speaker 1: to the Wagner family. So we do expect that this
Speaker 1: ballistics expert will prove a very important to this case.
Speaker 1: White is a striking presence on the stand. He wears
Speaker 1: a broad shouldered black three piece suit and sports a
Speaker 1: wide flat beard that ends the midway down his chest.
Speaker 1: When Matt White comes to work in London, Ohio, VCI,
Speaker 1: what does he do every day? Our primary duties involved
Speaker 1: examination of firearms to determine their operability, as well as
Speaker 1: looking at fired ammunition components, be it a fire cartridge
Speaker 1: case or a fire bullet. I can perform microscopic examinations
Speaker 1: to determine if they've been fired in or from a
Speaker 1: particular farm, and if not, I can generate a potential
Speaker 1: list of firms that could have been fired from I
Speaker 1: want to take you back to April two sixteen, April
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. At some point, were you asked through a
Speaker 1: dam of candidates that have been collected as part of
Speaker 1: an investigation of an eight person homicide in Pike count Yes,
Speaker 1: I was. And can you tell the jury how were
Speaker 1: you initially brought into this case or asked to assist?
Speaker 1: My supervisors notified us that there was a larger case
Speaker 1: that was coming into laboratory, and I just happened to
Speaker 1: be the person selected to work the case at the time.
Speaker 1: White goes on to testify that he identified two types
Speaker 1: of bullets at Chris Senior's home, thirty caliber bullets from
Speaker 1: a high profiled rifle and forty caliber bullets from an
Speaker 1: unknown firearm. Crime scene too, the home of Frankie Rowden
Speaker 1: and Hannah Hazel Gilly was a different story. Were several
Speaker 1: of the items that you examined from this scene shell
Speaker 1: casings had been recovered by the crime scene unit? Yes
Speaker 1: they were. Yes, this is one fired watching long rifle
Speaker 1: cartridge case. The fact that that cartridge has the name
Speaker 1: long rifle, does that mean that it has to be
Speaker 1: or can only be fired out of a rifle. Now
Speaker 1: certainly not twenty long rifle cartridge is generic. It can
Speaker 1: be fired in a pistol, revolver, a rifle, any fire
Speaker 1: that's designed to actually fire that specific cartridge. Were you
Speaker 1: also asked to again, I didn't. It came from seeing three? Yes,
Speaker 1: I was. Was one of the items that you were
Speaker 1: asked to look at with respect the scene three as
Speaker 1: shell casing. That was our cartridge casing that was recovered
Speaker 1: from under a crib in this residence. Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 1: This is a fire twenty two long rifle cartridge case
Speaker 1: Remickton brand with a rectangular wedge shaped fine pin impressure.
Speaker 1: That item had the same general class characteristics as the
Speaker 1: shell casings that you just testified too from scene two. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's correct, and again, are those consistent with the other
Speaker 1: projectiles recovered? An autopsy of the other victims have seen
Speaker 1: three and the other victims have seen two. Yes, they
Speaker 1: are Stephanie and Jeff. So we have two types of
Speaker 1: bullets found at the scene. We have thirty caliber high
Speaker 1: powered rifle bullets and forty caliber bullets found in Chris
Speaker 1: Senior's home. And we know from Fortner's testimony last week
Speaker 1: that the thirty calibers were sprayed from outside the trailer
Speaker 1: and the forties were founds have gone through the floor
Speaker 1: and into the dirt below the home, so they were
Speaker 1: shot inside. Now here's where it gets confusing, because at
Speaker 1: Frankie and Dana Roden's homes they found twenty two caliber bullets.
Speaker 1: Does that mean that whoever did this, whether it's one
Speaker 1: person or many people, did they do that by switching
Speaker 1: out guns mid murder scene? Or does that mean they
Speaker 1: almost divided and conquered and that different family members were
Speaker 1: using different guns and that they were committing these murders simultaneously.
Speaker 1: They moved on to crime scene for Kenneth Rowden's house,
Speaker 1: if you recall there was only one shot fired. Stay
Speaker 1: divot D two eighty two. You've already opened her up.
Speaker 1: Do you recognize the marketings on that package? Yes, laboratory number,
Speaker 1: item number, and my initials, and we're able to examine
Speaker 1: that item and reach any conclusion with respect to brand
Speaker 1: and caliber associated with that. Yes, I was able to
Speaker 1: conclude this as a fired forty Smith and Wesson cartridge case.
Speaker 1: Hornedy brand is were you asked to make some comparisons
Speaker 1: in this case to determine whether or not certain pieces
Speaker 1: of evidence had been fired by the same weapon at
Speaker 1: each scene. Yes, I was. Were you able to reach
Speaker 1: a conclusion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty as
Speaker 1: to whether or not the forty caliber shell casing a
Speaker 1: scene one was fired from the same firearm that fired
Speaker 1: the forty caliber shell casing the scene forty. Yes, Based
Speaker 1: on my microscopic comparison examining the two fired forty Smith
Speaker 1: and Weston Cartridge cases, I was able to conclude the
Speaker 1: two forty Smith and Weston Cartridge cases had been fired
Speaker 1: in the same firearm. Media outlets jumped on the breaking news. Today,
Speaker 1: prosecutors turned to the bullets used in all eight murders.
Speaker 1: The casings included a forty caliber shell found on Chris
Speaker 1: Senior's kitchen floor. He also showed the bullets retrieve from
Speaker 1: the victim's bodies. His testimony came after another BCI agent
Speaker 1: walked through the crime scene where police found Chris Senior's brother,
Speaker 1: Kenneth Rowden, shot in his bed. Agents also found a
Speaker 1: forty caliber shell in his bed. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends.
Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few
Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
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Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
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Speaker 1: My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and
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Speaker 1: The next day, the prosecution picks up once again with
Speaker 1: testimony from Matthew White. Andrew Wilson is intent on further
Speaker 1: closing the loop on the physical ballistic evidence. In addition
Speaker 1: to that information that you passed onto your investigators, do
Speaker 1: you do further work or further analysis to try to
Speaker 1: determine what kind of twenty two or what kind of
Speaker 1: forty was involved in these homicides? Yes. Oftentimes, if I'm
Speaker 1: encountered evidence and there's no firearms submitted, I can look
Speaker 1: at certain features of the fire cartridge cases or the
Speaker 1: fired bullets to give a possible list of firearms that
Speaker 1: could have fired them. To aid investigators and what they
Speaker 1: should be looking for. In the case of the twenty two,
Speaker 1: he pinpoints the probable gun used. I was able to
Speaker 1: examine other examples of test fires taken with Walter cold
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven twenty two pistols. I was able to physically
Speaker 1: examine a couple different of the specific guns. I was
Speaker 1: able to disassemble them, look at them, further, examine the
Speaker 1: firing pin itself, take additional test fires for comparison. In
Speaker 1: addition to that, I corresponded with a design engineer at
Speaker 1: Walter in Germany about the shape the orientation of the
Speaker 1: firing pin impression. He was able to look at some
Speaker 1: stock examples at the factory of farms that they were producing,
Speaker 1: and he agreed and concurred that the shape of the
Speaker 1: firing pin impression and the orientation of it was consistent
Speaker 1: with the farms that they produced the Walter nineteen eleven
Speaker 1: twenty two pistols. In the case of the forty caliber,
Speaker 1: he pulls up an enlargement of the bullet casing, pointing
Speaker 1: out marks around the base of it. You can see
Speaker 1: the fine pain impression itself. It's elliptical, it is not
Speaker 1: circular in shape. Those two features are very common with
Speaker 1: glock firearms. So based on those observations, again, did you
Speaker 1: begin to feel that a block firearm or a forty
Speaker 1: Cali block was responsible for shooting the showcasings recover from
Speaker 1: seeing a one in zeen four. Yes, the lock is
Speaker 1: by far the most common firearm encountered that has those
Speaker 1: two characteristics. Next, the prosecution asks a key question of light.
Speaker 1: But at that time, when you were doing your initial
Speaker 1: work in this case, did you have a firearm that
Speaker 1: had been inflected as evidence to compare of from the
Speaker 1: scene or from a suspect. No, I did not to
Speaker 1: understand the recovery of the Wagner's firearms. Brian Scheiderer is
Speaker 1: asked to step back and give the jury a big
Speaker 1: picture on how they began their investigation. Remember, at the time,
Speaker 1: BCI did not yet know the Wagners were involved. Back
Speaker 1: to that very first day, you responded to the Sheriff's office,
Speaker 1: you interviewed some people. Then what happened? Then what did
Speaker 1: you do? Things were still very confusing at that time.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of information coming in as you can expect,
Speaker 1: the media was on scene at the time, so this
Speaker 1: had went statewide. As well as national So eventually we
Speaker 1: went back to the piked in the police department and
Speaker 1: we tried to organize things like we knew this was
Speaker 1: going to be in. We're going to be in for
Speaker 1: the long haul on this. We're trying to say, here's
Speaker 1: what we had at the crime scenes, here's what the
Speaker 1: families told us, and here's tips that are coming in.
Speaker 1: That's all happening extremely fast, like it's over well, I mean,
Speaker 1: it overloads you, it's coming in so fast. We also
Speaker 1: established a tip system because we had so many tips
Speaker 1: coming in. Ultimately, I believe we had eleven hundred and
Speaker 1: forty three tips that came in through the end of
Speaker 1: the investigation to the arrest, and all eleven hundred and
Speaker 1: forty three of those tips were investigated and cleared. And
Speaker 1: so how was that tip system established. They would mark
Speaker 1: the tip, it would get assigned to an agent, and
Speaker 1: the agent would go out investigate the tip and respond
Speaker 1: back and report his or her findings. At some point,
Speaker 1: they received a tip about the Wagner's collection of firearms.
Speaker 1: Here's Jeff speaking with my Gallen. Law enforcement have to
Speaker 1: verify who sent the tip or does it not matter
Speaker 1: if it checks out you mean, when the tip comes in,
Speaker 1: try to figure out who it is. Yeah, Like, if
Speaker 1: they got a tip that, oh, you should search this
Speaker 1: property because there might be weapons there. If that tip
Speaker 1: checks out, does it matter who called it in? In theory,
Speaker 1: wouldn't they want to track that person down because that's
Speaker 1: a good witness or they don't care. They probably would
Speaker 1: have to have more than that. You know, they get
Speaker 1: a tip like that, they'd have to develop it somewhat,
Speaker 1: you know, just some Tom Dick or Harry calling and saying, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's a bunch of evidence and
Speaker 1: weapons down there at Joe Jones's house. The cops will
Speaker 1: have to have more than that. You just use the
Speaker 1: term develop the tip. I've never heard that. What does
Speaker 1: that mean? You know, perhaps try to find out whatever
Speaker 1: this witness said, Maybe go to the place, check it out,
Speaker 1: maybe talked to other people. I just think that would
Speaker 1: be very weak to go to a judge and ask
Speaker 1: for a search warrant just based on a completely anonymous
Speaker 1: tip that they would have to bolster that somehow it
Speaker 1: was enough to get warrants to search the Wagner's property.
Speaker 1: We also talked about you've seeking court orders for various
Speaker 1: phone records and Facebook records and any other records are correct,
Speaker 1: and can you tell us kind of at what point
Speaker 1: did that start to happen and what kinds of information
Speaker 1: were you receiving that led you to turn your attention
Speaker 1: to them. It takes a long time to examine those things,
Speaker 1: you know, many of those files are extremely large, several
Speaker 1: thousand pages. It is these electronic records that lead BCI
Speaker 1: to Jake Wagner via social media posts about custody of
Speaker 1: his and Hannime Rodin's young child. When we first made
Speaker 1: contact with Jake Wagner, he had indicated that everything was okay,
Speaker 1: that he had a good relationship with Hannah, and there
Speaker 1: was no issues involving their child that they shared together.
Speaker 1: So that was a little suspicious moranted a little further investigation, obviously,
Speaker 1: But we were also conducting an interviews of friends and
Speaker 1: family who were reporting a similar situation. So you kind
Speaker 1: of have conflicting stories, right. You have one side that's
Speaker 1: saying everything's okay, and then you have records and family
Speaker 1: members and friends that are saying that it's not true.
Speaker 1: So that kind of, you know, you need to investigate that.
Speaker 1: That's important that's a lead, that's that's something that needs
Speaker 1: to be ran down, and so that's what we started
Speaker 1: to do. Did you also look at Jake's phone and
Speaker 1: did you find anything of interest on that phone? Yes?
Speaker 1: And can you tell us? And again, these were expedited
Speaker 1: reviews of these records. It wasn't like we had days
Speaker 1: to go through these. We literally downloaded these phones and
Speaker 1: started going through quickly. But one of the most interesting
Speaker 1: things that we found on Jake's phone at that time
Speaker 1: was under the note section, and it was a list
Speaker 1: of guns owned by the Wagoners or purported to be.
Speaker 1: So basically there's a list with each Wagner's name and
Speaker 1: then a list of guns underneath each of those names.
Speaker 1: At this point, the defense objects and everyone approaches Judge
Speaker 1: Daring upon request, they consult briefly and during rules testimony
Speaker 1: can continue, your honor, Agent Scheider. I'm going to show
Speaker 1: you what is going to be marked as students exam
Speaker 1: at H two. Okay, and can you tell us first
Speaker 1: of all, Agent Scheider, what are we looking at? This
Speaker 1: was again, this is a an extraction report or a
Speaker 1: snippet of an extraction report related to Jake's iPhone that
Speaker 1: we took of May of seventeen, and this was found
Speaker 1: in the notes section of the phone, and it is
Speaker 1: a list of firearms and associated Wagner names. Go through
Speaker 1: those and tell us which guns are listed belonging and
Speaker 1: belonging to and what date was that list created pursuing
Speaker 1: to the reports I'm having Trump to see you that
Speaker 1: February eleventh, twenty fifteen. Okay, thank you, and go ahead
Speaker 1: and tell us what guns are listed there? Starting at
Speaker 1: the top, the list starts with George's Indicadian possession and
Speaker 1: it says Glock seventeen nine millimeter, Baretta ninety six forty caliber,
Speaker 1: Taurus Revolver three fifty seven, Remington five fourteen twenty two,
Speaker 1: ruger M seventy seven two seventy, ruger M seventy seven
Speaker 1: twenty two, Hornet Remington Woodmaster thirty six, ruger M seventy
Speaker 1: seven twenty two, CZ twenty two and SKS seven point
Speaker 1: six two by thirty nine. And who else is listed
Speaker 1: on that list? Moms, Dad's and Jake's. Okay, that is
Speaker 1: at the extent of the list. It was extracted from
Speaker 1: the phone belonging to Jake Wagner. Yes, but you seized
Speaker 1: for tuning to the search for it. Yes, let's stop
Speaker 1: here for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated
Speaker 1: the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages,
Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He
Speaker 1: was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. He really wasn't,
Speaker 1: he shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could
Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when
Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know
Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for
Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll
Speaker 1: be honest with your fis song him right now. I'd
Speaker 1: spit on him. I would call him and I would say,
Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound
Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart podcast. What the hell is going
Speaker 1: on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a
Speaker 1: situation like this. I just thought it was just a
Speaker 1: really terrible, immoral thing a line they won't cross. I
Speaker 1: was stunned and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin ars ricin,
Speaker 1: and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the
Speaker 1: whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and the only
Speaker 1: person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't
Speaker 1: just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These
Speaker 1: are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going
Speaker 1: to happen to this week out disgrace through our gun.
Speaker 1: Peovil Pay should be prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is
Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to
Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court what they're doing. Is wrong. What
Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl
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Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
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Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share everybody. We know there are a
Speaker 1: ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we
Speaker 1: would love for you to check out. It is called
Speaker 1: The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scobel.
Speaker 1: We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers,
Speaker 1: but now most of all, we are your pen pals.
Speaker 1: Every single episode we get two letters that we read
Speaker 1: from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be
Speaker 1: about anything going on in their life. And sometimes we're
Speaker 1: also joined by guests like Will Ferrell. I'm gonna bring
Speaker 1: you up in front of the group and I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts,
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Speaker 1: much figured out what the firearms were through that, obviously
Speaker 1: the help of the corner. The what the rounds showed,
Speaker 1: what kind of weapon they were fired from. And you know,
Speaker 1: they got a real break on Jake's phone when they
Speaker 1: got the search warrant for that and found on the
Speaker 1: notes portion just about every gun that the family had
Speaker 1: and it matched up again. That was just good old
Speaker 1: fashioned police work, not a lot of technology in that.
Speaker 1: What do you make of Jake Wagner writing all this
Speaker 1: stuff down? Stupid? It was just stupid. Why would you
Speaker 1: do that? You know? In many ways, I think he
Speaker 1: covered his tracks, or at least tried to cover his
Speaker 1: tracks pretty well, but it's just stupid. I guess he
Speaker 1: just wanted to keep track of what everybody had, and
Speaker 1: my goodness, you talk about an arsenal. They had just
Speaker 1: about any kind of weapon you can think of. Learning
Speaker 1: a lot of guns, though, does not necessarily make you
Speaker 1: guilty of a murder. It definitely does not make you
Speaker 1: guilty of murder. But it's a piece of the puzzle,
Speaker 1: especially when two of the weapons that he had on
Speaker 1: that list were the type of weapons that were used
Speaker 1: to commit these murders. When you can tie a weapon
Speaker 1: or weapons, you know, to a homicide, that's big. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's good evidence. The jury wants to hear that, so
Speaker 1: it's strong evidence. More on that next time. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a short break. The Pipes and Massacre returns
Speaker 1: with all new episodes starting Wednesday, January fourth, with Angela
Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner taking the stand. There's much more to uncover,
Speaker 1: and the biggest bombshells are yet to come. Don't defense ready? Yes,
Speaker 1: you wish to call a witness, that is fine, then
Speaker 1: we called George Wagger The four. For more information on
Speaker 1: the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel
Speaker 1: Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by
Speaker 1: Jeff Tua. Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and
Speaker 1: it is time to find a husband. There were four
Speaker 1: Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One
Speaker 1: of them was the spot Barrenmout. On paper, he was perfect,
Speaker 1: but in reality, this guy's a welcome. He shouted to
Speaker 1: the point she went unconscious. I would call him and
Speaker 1: I would say, I know you killed my Sister. You
Speaker 1: can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Free
Speaker 1: and I'm Rthy. We have spent the last twenty years
Speaker 1: building and working at some of the largest companies in
Speaker 1: the world. We worked with some remarkable people, Rob mclenny.
Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up
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Speaker 1: That is a R D HI and s R I
Speaker 1: R A M Show. Listen to the Art Instrie Arm
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Speaker 1: on the road, playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage of season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities, twelve episodes every other Thursday,
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Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
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Speaker 1: story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget.
Speaker 1: He was a visionary who built a fortune as a
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Speaker 1: wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally.
Speaker 1: Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.