WEBVTT - Decaying Morality w/ Jamie McShane 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.760 Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:07.560 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.000 vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories. 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:31.600 Done done, Hello, and welcome to another episode of That's 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:33.360 Messed Up, an SVU podcast. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.360 I'm Kara Klink and I'm. 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.960 Lee's A Traeger and here we talk SVU true crime 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.360 and we have cool guests and we're living a dream. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:48.360 Jk No. We are micro microlife, great, Macrolife. 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:56.440 Every every perspective that's good micro Macrolife. Yeah, macrolife, losing 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.800 our rights every second of the day, microlife. 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:01.360 I know, I'm doing a show and these people from 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:03.840 Dallas or in the front and I went, how does 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:04.760 it feel visiting? 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.119 Do you feel free? Do you feel fun? 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.959 And they had a nice little chuckle. I do want 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:12.800 to say, I mean, we're in the time machine whatever. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:18.920 But Thanksgiving weekend, my family already pre bought tickets to 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:24.120 see Wicked that Friday. On Friday, Yeah, the grandma's, me 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.160 and my sister and the niece. Where I'll go in 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.720 how fun? Yeah at a two pm. And my sister's like, whoa, 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:32.880 there's barely any tickets. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:34.880 I go. Yeah, I've been telling you for weeks, this 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:36.559 is a big deal, Like. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.280 You're going to Wicked on Thanksgiving and I'm going to 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.440 Mawana too. I mean I'm excited. You know, I'm excited 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.800 for ma Wana too, but Wicked. I really want to 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.400 see Mawana. I really want to see Wicked. I just 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.280 have to figure out who's gonna go with me. Yeah, 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.559 I don't know. I just I know I'm gonna cry. 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.480 I don't know what. There's just a lot of crying. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.160 There has been, like not that I would expect anything 0:01:58.200 --> 0:01:59.720 last I mean, it is like a huge thing. And 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:01.920 I've actually been hearing that the movie is good, like 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.600 review wise, I think people are saying it is awesome. 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.240 I've just it's been so much marketing. I mean, you know, we. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:13.000 Watch Housewives side like I Rebecca bing cough they did 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.320 that full like so I actually, I mean, who knows 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:17.800 everyone on the internet is a grifter. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:23.119 But I happened upon like some marketing girl podcast and 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:29.560 they were saying that it's actually places paying to license 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.040 Wicked stuff and make products. It's not like Wicked is 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.679 paying these people. It's not like a marketing thing where 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.880 it's like, ah, ge get with this company. It's these 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.720 companies being like could we please license it for our 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:41.880 eyeshadow or whatnot. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.200 And so it does seem like a lot. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.840 Because it is, but it's because people are trying to 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.560 capitalize on it or like these businesses and whatnot. I 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.640 also was like, I don't know, it's split whatever. And 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:54.959 then I saw these influencers going and doing a go 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.320 before and after and everyone was in tears, and I go, oh, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.720 I cry just hearing defying grad like on the radio. 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.240 Not that it's on the radio, but. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.120 And I think it really feels like and maybe they're 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.400 just great actresses, but like Cynthia Rivo and Arianna seem 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.160 like they have like a genuine friendship in. 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.880 Real theater kids, that's a lot of the TikTok too, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.560 people being like why do they keep crying? And it's 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.520 like have you never done theater? Have you ever talked 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.600 to somebody in a play? Yeah? Like these are mania 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.360 and I mean just watching the Cynthia but I'm just 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.760 not as familiar with her as obviously Ariana Grande. But 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.000 the I reposted this, but it was it's a video 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.200 of her because John im chu is saying, He's like 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.760 the fact that this bitch is doing her own stunts 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:42.320 flying in the air, acting and singing is very few 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.080 people in the world could do something like that. 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:45.880 Like I think she is like the. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.200 Singular talent, and I'm excited to see how they're live 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.200 singing in ropes, flying in the. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.920 Air, Like, yeah, that must have been on your that 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:56.840 must have been your in so that I saw that 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.960 because I was watching a whole video of her with 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.640 those fucking blue flips and it looks intense. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.560 Yeah, and that yeah, whatever, I'm like really excited for things. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:05.880 Well. 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.440 Also, you know, it was both my nephew's birthdays. One 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.720 respects and does like me, and the other he likes 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.520 vineyard vines and it's an issue and I think I've 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:15.040 talked about it. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.760 He is, like the transformation into bro is really moving forward. 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.240 Vineyard vines. Oh I didn't tell you this. Yeah, Oh 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:24.080 I didn't know about that. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.240 Yeah, because I was like, hey, what should I get it? 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.160 You know, birthday I want to do? And they're like, vin, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.200 I go excuse me, Like that is so gross. And 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.560 it's like he like looks up to his cousins who 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.920 are live in the South, so it's like they don't 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:42.240 know any better. And you know, he he's young, and 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.159 so I was like, Okay, I'm not going to change him, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.320 but I'm gonna get him nicer stuff, like better stuff 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.159 of that genre. I can do that for him. But 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.599 I'm old, so I don't actually know the cool stuff. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.480 So I've been sourcing. I've been asking people. I've been 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.960 trying to get brands of stuff that you know, the 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.479 kids will think is cool. And then there were two 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.200 twenty two year olds in the front row of a 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.320 show and I was like, oh my god, you're young boys. 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.400 Can you help me? And I go what about LA Costs? 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.200 And I go, well, Notla Costs? And I go, okay, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.719 this is good. This is good, thank you. I need 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.920 this feedback. This is so funny. And so they told 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:23.479 me Barber bar bou r As was that is so 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:24.280 fucking preppy. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.200 And when I went to college, every girl wore a 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.240 Barber jacket, like that is such a preppy brand. But 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.040 it's like, I think it's British or something, so it is, yeah, 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.520 and I guess it's on succession a lot. But the 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.240 sweatshirts all having in huge letters because then I bothered 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.200 everyone at the cellar as well, and I was like, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.479 what do you guys know like, and someone was like, no, 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.800 it's an old money brand, so like he should like 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:46.919 if he were a sweatshirt and it said Barber, like 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.559 that's kind of gross, and I was like, okay, fuck. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.680 So I found a fleece and I've just been like 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.080 searching these brands, like trying to impress them, and then 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.440 I enlisted my other nephew's girlfriend. 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.760 I was like, why do I keep asking? They're old people? 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:04.880 Like I have the source, so I actually oh. And 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.839 then someone recommended Perry Ellis and I loved it and 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:08.839 it looked so cute. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.640 It's the skinhead brand. Did you know that? 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:11.360 No? 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:11.719 What? 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:12.360 Yes? 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:18.080 Before the purchase, Yeah, I google is Perry Ellis cool 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.720 and it's all the reddits were skinhead, skinhead, proud boy, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:24.920 Nazi like Berlin, can you wear it in Berlin? 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.840 And I go, oh my god, thank god, No, Wow, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.320 you dodged a bullet with the Google. Good job. 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:31.320 Yeah. 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.480 So I'm really impressed with myself. It's not preppy, but 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.640 I think because what I'm trying to show my nephew 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.920 is like I'm actually cooler than anyone else you want 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.200 to look up to, Like. 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.680 I'm in the know, you know what I mean, Like 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:43.920 I'm cool. 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:51.280 So I got kiss, Okay, I bought ben Jerry Seinfeld. Yeah, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.840 but also the the dad from Succession did a campaign 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.280 and their whole thing is like off kilter or like 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.360 older peace. Well, because Maggie Smith, I feel like, did 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.520 a campaign with that or did she know someone else sold? 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.640 Then she had a last campaign, but it might not 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.480 be with them, no lueve loev oh what. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.720 Whatever? So I did Kith, and I was like, what 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:14.520 is this? Praise this? 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.400 And then finally Benji's girlfriend was just like, trust me, 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:19.840 he'll be happy with anything. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.840 Kith. And his whole thing is like brands and like 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:22.720 money and all that. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.120 And so I got him like a sweatshirt, crew neck 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.120 sweatshirt and a hat with the logos and it's all kids. 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:30.920 Yeah. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.200 And then Benji's a little more calm, so I got him. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.480 It looks so cool. It's like a knitted sweater but 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.440 a hoodie ooh yeah. And I know he'll like it 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.760 because he's a little more hippie and chill. But I'm 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.640 really excited. So you guys will find out how they 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:47.920 reacted to the kith and if I'm cool or not. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.160 See, but if you. 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.960 Also have brands going formate gift giver, You're you're researching, 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.560 you're talking to the people. You're out there, like honestly, 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.320 you this is why you have a skill. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.280 But he likes like the quarter zips, but the one 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.680 had stripes, and his dad was like, it kind of 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.240 reminds us of the concentration camp. You can't do it, 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:11.800 And I like, go, okay, I won't do it. Quarter 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.720 zips like reminds me of old That's so funny. But 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.080 I had stripes. Yeah, they didn't want it. That's so 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:17.600 funny that. 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.600 Barber is back, because that was like the smell of 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.640 barber jackets. They smell like Crayola crayons because it's like 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.080 there's like a waxy thing on it, and it's like 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:28.760 it will always remind me of college. Like if I 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:33.120 smell someone in a barber jacket, I'm like college, of course. 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.240 But then also to a surprise that will shock you 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.000 very little, is that there is a vineyard vines in 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:38.560 my hometown. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:41.000 So I feel like your. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.720 Nephew would love a shopping spree in Old New Kingaan, Connecticut. 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:45.560 It's just not even that expense. 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.200 That's what I'm I'm like, I'm like, honey, I got you, Like, 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.280 stop looking up to these cause I just it's like. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:56.200 Whales and watermelons and little embroidered belts and stuff like that. 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.400 It's very preppy. It's just like preppy stuff. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.640 I know Kith isn't preppy, but hopefully you know he 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.720 likes Travis Scott, which is cool. Yeah, I don't know 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.080 what I'm talking about. Like, I really don't even know. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.440 So when those little boys went well not la cost 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.839 I go, oh my god. Okay, let's good. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:14.560 Wait, let me ask you a question. Do you remember 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:20.480 when your sister gave your nissa nephew's cell phones. No, 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.680 it's been like a huge convo with like me and 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.040 other moms and like just people that. 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.200 Well, I like what our friend did where it's like 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.760 a kid Apple watch thing but it's only texts the 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:33.680 parents or something. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.600 Yes, like yeah, it's like like caul. 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.960 And text just parents, and I think it geolocates so 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.480 like you can track them or whatever. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:41.520 Yeah, so yeah, that is definitely the thing. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.720 But like moms were talking about, like, well, what do 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.080 you do when like they're ten or eleven and like 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.240 all their friends have a full phone and you're and 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.439 I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm holding out 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:52.960 till fourteen. I think I'm just gonna have to be 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.320 the jerk parent. But the parents are like, you have to, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.959 you have to, you have to join together. Like there 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.280 are schools where they do pledges to say, let's all 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.079 not give our kid a phone till after eighth grade, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.320 like they and they ask all the parents to like 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:06.280 sign the pledge. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.360 I don't know, Yeah, but isn't the new thing. Were 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.079 you talking about this? Or maybe it's someone else where. 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.440 It's like their house you get exactly this house you don't. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.040 And we're all different. Different houses have different rules. Oh 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:17.640 my god, let me tell you what happened. Let me 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.280 tell you what happened for different houses, different rules. Okay, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.800 So my friend was over here with her kid, who's 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.120 Rosie's friend, and she's really cool, she's not like an 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.320 up aty mom, but she did say the kids were like, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.840 we're not allowed to have skittles and the mom goes, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.040 it's the only candy. I say no too, because she's 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.560 from the UK, and she's like, it's literally banned in 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.880 other countries, like the red dye is supposed to be 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.959 really bad, so it's the only one I say no too. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.440 And I was like, okay, I just I honestly like, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.280 I feel like I read that and then I thought 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.160 they changed it, and so I've never really like given 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:48.600 much thought to It's not like my kids are having 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:49.440 Skittles on the daily. 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.400 So then the next day and she kind of explains that, 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.360 and Rosie hears it. And then the next day we're 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.000 at ice skating and her friend alex gives her an 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.400 osky each a little pack of Skittles, and Rosie's like, 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.079 we can't have this. This is toxic. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:05.520 You can't. 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.600 These are bad for your body. And I go, Rosie, 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.280 that's the rule in their house. That's not even the 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.439 rule in our house. And that's not the rule for Alexander, 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.720 So don't don't say that. So I'm trying to like, 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:18.560 I'm trying to like, you know, be like, you know, 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.400 different rules, different houses. So we get home and Rosie goes, 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.800 I know, let's take the skittles and put them in 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.520 a cup of water and then the dye will come 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.640 off and I can just eat them without the dye 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.320 on them. And Jared goes, yeah, right, that's gonna take forever. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.080 We stick the skittles in the water. The dye comes 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.320 off in seconds. And my kids are just sitting there 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.680 eating white skittles, and Jared is like, we need to 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:47.160 call a science fair. Rosie is a genius. I don't know. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.880 I'm sure they still and they taste good. The dye 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:51.839 is just for college. It's just the dye. They taste 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.840 the same. They're just sitting there. We dried them, we 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.720 strained them, we dried them off. They were eating white skittles. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.000 I was never like, we have to be off skined. 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.319 Skittles are such a rare occur, like it's Halloween whatever 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.880 that once they eat a couple bags of skittles, they 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.160 get a Halloween. It's not like I'm constantly bringing skittles 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.559 into the home. But I just thought it was so 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.559 funny that Rosie was like innovation. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.160 Hold on, I've got an idea anything to get skittles. 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.960 Anything, And I was gonna get on anyway. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.200 I don't, I don't know, I don't. That's just not 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.600 where I go candy. I never was a starbarst Skittles person. 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.320 I always wanted chocolate as a kid, and then like 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.640 I love gummies now, but again, like I would never. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:33.720 Buy skittles or Starburst. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.920 I'll have a red one if it's around. That's what 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:36.240 I mean. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.480 It's like if i'm if they're getting a skittle, it's 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.560 a kid's from someone else bringing into the home, because 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.200 we're really chocolate people. But also, how is the die 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.719 on a skittle different than the die on an M 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:46.040 and M. 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:48.120 I should look that up. 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.520 I'm not asking you like like you like you should 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.640 be telling me the answer. I'm just kind of thinking 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.319 out loud, like I don't know. There's just so many 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.920 things we're supposed to worry about. The phones, the skittles. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.400 All right, well, I gotta maybe I'll ask your sister. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.040 I'll be like, when to do phones? How do you 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.240 control phones? I don't know. I'm nervous about phones. I 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.520 feel like, Oh, my friend was telling me her kid 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.480 is in a study. He's like the control of the study. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.480 And it's like you and this scientist told her, like you, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.160 you cannot believe how much it's fucking kids up, like 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.520 the screens, like having phones and iPads and stuff. 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:23.360 She's like it. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.600 Literally you were seeing scoliosis and stuff like and joints 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.640 like nexts, next posture, spine, spinal curvature because of like 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:33.480 how they're bent down. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.400 Look, well, I don't know why we're shocked, Like we 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.920 as adults have no control over it. We're all addicted, 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.760 I know, hours a day, so I don't know, like 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:42.800 that's my whole thing. I'm like, well, I want to 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.360 be on it, so like why would I? But like 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.040 it was causing long term effects. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.240 But the interesting thing was that they were saying TV's 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.040 not as bad because it's far away from you. Like 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.040 when you're watching it, like there's peripheral stuff happening in 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.480 your vision. You're like, oh, my brother's playing, my dad's 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.800 getting a phone call, it whatever, Like you're seeing other 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.960 stuff like in around you when you're watching TV. But 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.760 like if it's it's the up closeness of like the 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.760 phone and the iPad that just kind of like you're 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.040 just zoned into that world and like nothing else. 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.559 I saw really funny TikTok and it was a woman going, Hey, 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.840 if you're a parent worrying about screen time, I want 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.880 you to know that my kids have zero We do 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.160 zero screen time, and they're the worst kids. 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:24.840 I've ever met. 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.120 I love that. That helps me so much. 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:29.560 Thank you. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.560 She was like, so screens or no screens, these kids suck, 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.040 so do what you want to do. And then, of 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.280 course in the comments there is someone who was like, well, 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.440 we have unlimited screen time and my kids the best. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.200 And it's like, okay, but yeah, I thought that there's 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.000 a million fucking factors. But that is so funny. I 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:47.960 love to hear that. I mean, you know, I let 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.920 my kids watch a ton of TV and movies and stuff. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.120 We don't have iPads or anything, but we do TV. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.520 The movie is also attention. You have to pay attention forurs. 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.680 It's exact ten second YouTube slot and you don't know 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:00.240 who is. 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.160 It's just like a girl, hi guy, I hate it. Yeah. 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.240 Yeah, Like I don't do the YouTube because I think 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:11.240 that that's like him. Well had I had a woman 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.360 tell me, she goes, that's the one thing the horse 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.280 I wish I could put back in the barn is YouTube. 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:16.800 Like I wish I didn't let my kids just like 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.680 blindly watch YouTube because it's like, uh, it's like they 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.400 can't watch a movie, they can't do anything for long 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.040 periods of time. The attention span is completely fucked. 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:27.280 I think it doesn't fucking matter. 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.200 And if they feel left out, they feel left out, 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.000 and then they can bitch about you. Like I just 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:32.720 I don't think you should give in. I think you 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.760 should stand strong no matter what the people around you 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:35.360 are doing. I know. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.000 And it's like I wasn't allowed to watch TV during 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.760 the week and I'm obsessed with TV, and so am 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.560 I gonna make them obsessed with their phones even more? 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:41.520 Who knows what can I do? 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.240 I can't control it, but I'm trying to just know 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.239 of it until their brain's done developing. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.920 It's not about obsession. It's about the curvature of their spine. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.960 I know, you know what I mean. It's not like 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:53.800 and a dude, they're gonna love it more. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.520 It's they're they're truly ruining their I mean, the people 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.800 that work in tech don't let their kids phones. The 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.240 phones are in the kitchen like anyone that's close to it, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:04.240 and look around. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:05.040 It's same. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.080 There's a comic whose aunt worked on the team who 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.240 made microwaves, and guess what, the bitch has never used 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.560 a microwave in her life. Like, if the people on 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.160 the inside are not doing it, you should either. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:21.160 Right right, that's so yeah. Well this is coming out 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.280 on a December third. 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.000 Happy Today is a Simpsons trivia night. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.520 I wonder if I can make it or not. We'll see. Yeah, 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.080 you gotta get back there. Oh and I'm on the road. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.440 So this weekend, I'm actually in Cincinnati, so I'm gonna 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.480 go to the Zoo on Saturday. But shows it's at 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.040 the Commonwealth and my friend Tommy McNamara is opening, who's 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.960 like really funny, And then I keep writing It's December ninth, 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:52.440 and for people, I'm in red Bank, New Jersey on 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.640 December nineteenth, which. 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.680 Is so cute. Red Bank is such a cute town. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.080 Oh great, Did I ever tell you about the job 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.520 I had when I worked for the I worked for Illumination, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.000 the company that made the Minions before the Minions movie 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.120 came out, Like I was, I saw the Minions before 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.560 they ever hit those streets. And I would commute from 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.480 New York to Red Bank two hours each way, but 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.920 only every other week, and the every other week I 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.000 could stay home, and so I thought it was worth it. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.400 It was not worth it, but Red Bank is so cute, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:22.160 like it's so got. 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:23.200 It's a really cute town. 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.639 So go see Lisa red Bank if you want to 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.200 find legit and then links. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.800 Oh yeah, well, and then December twenty first, I'm at 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.280 the Bellhouse in New York. And then twenty twenty five 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.840 dates we could worry about. Yeah, then I don't know. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.639 But don't just google Lisa Cincinnati because I feel like 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.920 sometimes you get shitty links. So go to That's Messed 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.119 Up Live dot com if you want, or Lisa's Instagram 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.480 and those both take you to like the official link 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.200 trees that have all of the ticket links to those shows. 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:55.440 No, hopefully you're all noticing my front facing videos. She's 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.560 out there, she's marketing, she's promoting. But also while you're 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.280 at Thought's Messed Up Live, you can go to our 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.040 shop link and get tons of our fun merch We've 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.240 got do you have children detective stuff. We also have 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.480 a new Christmas ornament. You have to order by December 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.680 twelfth in order to get stuff by Christmas, so get 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.320 on there. Orders over seventy five, get free shipping, grab 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:22.879 yourself some That's Messed Up Love for Christmas, or you know, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.520 leave a little note for the leave the browser open 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.040 for your partner or friend, who's looking for a gift 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.960 idea for you? And that's that on that should we 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:33.399 get started on the episode? 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:42.760 Yeah, let's go okay today, this one is a rough one. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:48.359 We are doing Decaying Morality Season sixteen, episode thirteen. 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.119 But it reminds me of defying gravity. But it's not 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:58.679 just you and I Decaying Morality. Yeah, it's one of 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.280 the worst. I texted care I started watching and I go, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.840 oh no, this one, please, no, I don't want to 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.919 do this one. No, this is one of the worst, 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.600 and I have yeah do it? 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.120 Yeah, yeah, okay, So yeah, this baby came out in twenty. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.400 And Haley Lou, I mean it's exciting. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:21.760 Yeah, it's exciting but dark but amazing actors, so many 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.160 storylines at once. Yeah, I'm excited to Did you feel 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.399 like it was a more recent episode? It is, but 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.520 then it wasn't like I thought it was truly season 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.919 twenty something and it's season what fifteen to sixteen, like 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.199 and it's almost ten years old, like this episode it's crazy. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.560 It is weird for me when I was shocked when 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.160 I saw it. Actually, yeah, because one of my cases too, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.360 it like started right before this, but it didn't. 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:46.360 End till twenty twenty three. 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:47.960 Wow. 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.000 So at first I went, oh, this is probably a 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.199 wiki mistake, and then I was like, oh, it's like 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.280 it was ongoing, and so I yeah, yeah, buckle up, 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.240 Buckle up those who uh don't watch. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.439 Because yeah, here we go. Yeah, a lot of twists 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.200 and turns and nothing good. But you know, we love 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.720 the show, so we and so we persist. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:09.920 We open on. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.280 Live and Rollins at a coffee shop, just having a 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:13.000 little girl's night. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:13.720 It's nighttime. 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.560 Rollins has been on a little hiatus the last two episodes, 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.000 since the Forgiving Rollins episode, which we've covered, where the 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.359 old Atlanta Boys came to town and she had to 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.560 deal with all their raping asses and you know, she 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.840 had to confess that like, shit wasn't great when she 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:27.720 was down in Atlanta. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:29.000 So she apparently just. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.159 Got back from a yoga retreat in Costa Rica, and 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:33.160 who's paying for that? 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:35.120 Yeah, I'm also like, I. 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.320 Kind of don't buy that for Rollins, but whatever, I'm like, 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.159 you're like a you're like an adrenaline junkie. 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:41.480 You're not gonna like you know, she was so zen. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.560 She said she didn't even flinch when a yogi tapped 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.800 her on her shoulder while she was meditating at the 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.680 summit of a volcano. It's like, I don't know, I 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:50.280 don't see this for Rollins, you know. 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.920 What I see she she was fucking a few people. Yeah, 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.000 I think she was fucking some people in this little 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.440 Hawaii uh volcano getaway. 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:04.320 Absolutely absolutely and lives like, okay, cool, so you'll stay 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.520 in therapy, and Rollins just kind of rolls over and 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.040 it's like, I'm just really sorry for what I put 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.439 you guys through, and lives like, girl, I'm sorry for 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.240 what you've been through, and you know, classic as a 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.960 VU trope. Meanwhile, same night, on in another part of 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.760 the city, a young girl is walking through the New 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.200 York City streets and from her point of view, men 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.600 are just harassing her NonStop, Like the camera is at 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:25.359 her point of view and she's just trying to She 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.879 looks a little bit shaken, and men just keep being like, hey, mommy, 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.520 where are you going, Like what's up girl, like blah 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:33.439 blah blah, and she's like heavy breathing. 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:34.520 She looks traumatized. 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.600 It is Haley lou Richardson, who has been working for 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.320 so long but really came into my life the most 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.960 through White Lotus season two is where I really feel 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.600 like she popped playing Portia. I did see Split, but 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.359 I don't remember her specifically, but her. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:52.240 White Lotus character. 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.960 I feel got a lot of attention for the wardrobe 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.320 and how bad it was, but how particular it was 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:58.160 to this character. 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.639 And I just like she was so good. 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.560 That character was so good, that was so funny character 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.600 like a like like, you know, a lot of assistance 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.800 to rich people are played the same way all the time, 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.160 and Porscha was so like what like she just had 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:21.280 no idea and was so got completely wrapped up in 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:25.879 an insane storyline. And yeah, she's a great character. I 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.119 can't wait to see more from Haley Lou. It is 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.199 funny that her name does sound like Hallolu, which is 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.840 Angela's catchphrase. But this poor girl, just like stress, walks 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:38.120 right past Rollins and Benson's cute little girl's night okay, 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:40.639 which they also love to do. Now she's in a 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:43.880 nasty bathroom of a pizza place and she's still. 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.960 Which is like the most unrealistic thing has done that. 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.000 You could just waltz into a pizza spot and use 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:55.560 the bathroom. I don't think so no way, no, not 0:22:55.640 --> 0:23:00.480 unless you're buying a slice, babe. And I just don't 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:02.879 feel like I've ever gotten to use the bathroom in 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:03.879 a slice place. 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:04.200 Ever. 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:07.040 I don't think I have. I can't think of it. 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:08.240 I can't think of one. 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:10.719 Yeah, I mean it's fine. 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:12.800 New York is a real gauntlet if you have to pee, 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:15.200 it really is. It's like you got to really figure 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:21.320 out the places that you can go. But she is 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:26.280 splashing water on her face. She's looks really upset. Someone 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:28.080 keeps knocking on the door, and he's like, I have 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:28.800 customers waiting. 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:29.240 Are you okay? 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:29.439 And there? 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:30.879 What are you doing? What are you doing? Then he 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:32.639 comes in and he's like you're okay. I got you, 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:34.840 I got you, And she's like no, please leave me alone, 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.240 and then the camera pans away and it looks like 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:39.920 classic s few, like, fuck, something bad is about to happen. 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:42.320 This girl's about to get assaulted in the bathroom. 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.160 Rollinson Lives step outside into the cold New York City 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:49.320 night and their outerwear talking about how Amorro's had a 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:50.240 bad month, and I'm like. 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:51.480 When has he ever had a good month? 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.240 And like Noah's asthma's flaring up like everyone's got problems. 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:57.159 And as they're about to call it a night, they 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.600 see an altercation between the girl and the pizza place 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:02.399 guy outside and he's like, I'm trying to give you 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.800 your purse, and she's screaming accusing him he took my purse. 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:08.800 He attacked me, and then she goes he raped me, 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.919 and so Live cuffs the guy and credits all right, So. 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:14.800 And we have to say the dude is black and 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:15.520 she is white. 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:18.439 So yes, yes, the guy at the pizza place is 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:22.680 a is a black guy, and so it's not you know, 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.880 it's a it's a bad situation for everybody that she's 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:29.439 just like, it's also crazy that there's just two SBU 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:33.520 cops hanging out nearby, you know. So at the hospital 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:35.800 we find out that the girl's name is Jenna, that 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.120 Haley Loew's name is Jenna, and she had alcohol and 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:41.840 clonaza pan in her system. And I swear to god, 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.520 we've talked about a lot of drugs on the show. 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.560 They say clonaza pan like ninety times in this episode. 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.960 I had to write so many oh my god, so 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:55.280 much Cleanazapan. There was bruising possible semen on the sweater 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.360 and evidence of a Tornheimen and Rollins is like, wow, 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:02.399 this guy rapes a semi conscious sixteen year old virgin 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:04.600 on the floor of a pizzeria bathroom and lives like, 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:09.280 welcome back, babe. And so now we're in interrogation. The 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.520 pizza place guy is being questioned by Amorrow and Careesi 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:14.480 and he's like, you guys got it all wrong. I 0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:16.840 was trying to help her and the guys and he goes, 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:19.200 I know you cops all hate me, but I didn't 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:21.199 do this. And Tomorrow's like, we don't even know you. 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:22.840 And the guy's like, well, now I know you're messing 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:25.119 with me. And then Finn pops in and pulls the 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:27.520 boys out while the pizza place guy is like puffing 0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.280 on his inhaler. There's a lot of asthma in this episode. 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:33.760 Finn explains to Tomorrow and Careesi that this guy is 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:37.320 the Jerome Jones. He's one of the Prospect Park three 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:39.840 and they are three kids that were held on a 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:43.080 gang rape charge. All three of them confessed, then they 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:46.040 got off because of some DNA to contamination issue with 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:48.160 the lab. Then all three of them recanted and saying 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:50.600 the confessions were coerced and they have a thirty six 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:54.560 million dollar lawsuit pending with the city, and so the 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:57.080 guys are horned to keep talking to Jerome, but Finn's 0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:00.240 like Barbara says, go easy on him until he gets there. 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:02.960 So now back to Live is at the hospital talking 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.920 to Jenna's parents. The dad is played by Jamie McShane, 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:09.760 who has been in a million things, like he's in Bloodline, 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:11.560 He's in a ton of shows that I've watched, and 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:13.760 another s of you that he's in is we've covered 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:16.440 is called The Burden of Our Choices where that little 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:20.680 girl Evangeline comes from Ohio to get an abortion because 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.239 her dad, her fucking stepdad, impregnated her, and he's he 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:27.720 plays her priest who's like God wants this baby whatever. 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:28.600 So now he's here. 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:31.480 Later as he's now here as the dad, I'm sorry, 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:33.680 I think that Burden of Our Choices is a later episode, 0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:36.080 so he's the dad here and then later he's the priest. 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:38.600 The mom is Eva Kaminski. She was also in the 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:41.800 episode Cold, which is the episode where everyone thinks Chester 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:43.840 Lake killed someone and he's like on the run the 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:45.639 whole time, but I don't actually know who she plays 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:49.280 in that episode. Anyway, they're obviously upset. They tell them 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:52.679 they have a suspect in custody, and then they're telling 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:55.040 them there were tracing Jenna's like steps from earlier in 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:56.959 the day, like she had a dentist appointment, and then 0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.480 she never came home, and the dentist is on his way, 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:01.520 and Ben's makes a face like what, I'm sorry you 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:04.200 called your dentist to come to the hospital, and they're like, no, 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.560 he's Jenna's uncle, the mom's brother. He consults for the 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:09.840 NYPD as well, and they want to make sure everyone's 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:13.240 taking the shit seriously, so obviously, you know here he comes. 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.040 They say Jenna doesn't drink, she doesn't do drugs, she's 0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:17.600 a straight A student, and I'm like, you know, you 0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:20.199 can do both. Just FYI like, you can drink and 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:24.560 do drugs and also gets trade. A's uncle dentist shows 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:27.520 up and he is played by Paul Adelstein. 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:30.800 Who I really like him. I think he's attractive. I'm 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:36.000 into what's his name, Paul Adelstein. Yes, I like Paul Adelstein. Well, 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:41.800 it's crazy because he plays a lot of shitty guys, 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:42.320 like he. 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:46.280 Was at show, Like I recognize him also from a 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:48.520 show I barely ever watched, but because it was on Bravo, 0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:53.080 obviously I absorbed The Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, Oh, which 0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:54.760 he plays. 0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:57.040 The ex husband of the main character. And that show. Oh, 0:27:57.320 --> 0:27:58.600 and I'm sure he's like a tool. 0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:02.119 Yeah. And then and also in this show Chance that 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:05.159 I watched, which is the show starring the guy from House, 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.120 he plays like an extremely abusive husband. So I've seen 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:10.520 him in a bunch of things where he's like a 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:12.359 very bad but. 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:14.360 You know, and not that theater people can't be bad, 0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:16.360 but it's like he does play bad, but I'm sure 0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:18.640 he's just such a little theater dork in his yeah, 0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:19.600 true spirit. 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:23.919 Yeah, but yeah, physically he's hot. Yeah. 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:27.440 And he's here. He's doctor Alexander and Benson knows him immediately. 0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:29.359 She's like, yes, I recognize you from all of the 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:32.440 dentistry cases that we've had to have you testify at 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.440 she's been and and she was like, I recognize you 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:37.560 from the case of Ellie Porter. And he calls her 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.040 the burnt Girl, and you know, I think that makes 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:44.240 live fluinch a little bit. And he says, yeah, listen, 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:45.960 Jenna was in for an appointment. I gave her some 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:48.760 leighta Kane and Nitriss, but those were off fast. She 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:51.720 was fine when she left, and now Jenna is waking up, 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:53.840 so they all, like, you know, rush to her room, 0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:55.800 and he says to the parents, he's like, you should 0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:57.720 go to like you should be there. When she's talking 0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:00.640 to the cops, she doesn't remember how she got to 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:04.840 the pizza parlor. She remembers leaving uncle dentist Neil. His 0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:07.680 name is Neil, the dentist. She remembers leaving Uncle Neil's 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:10.320 and then going to her friend Kara's place to study 0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:15.760 I love It Lucky Yeah, another Kara. She denies drinking, 0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:18.320 but says she felt sick at Kara's, so she must 0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:20.920 have decided to leave. She remembers going to the pizza 0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:23.240 place to go to the bathroom, and then she mentions 0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:26.440 the guy coming into the bathroom. She remembers that's when 0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:29.720 it gets hazy. She remembers being cold the sweater, her 0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.160 sweater and her skirt were pushed up. His belly was 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.360 rubbing against hers. It hurt, but she couldn't move. He 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:38.520 got it all over her. She says she's apologizing to 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:40.680 her dad, who looks like extremely shook and it is 0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:43.120 traumatizing to have to recount all of this in front 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:43.640 of your parents. 0:29:43.680 --> 0:29:45.480 And he tells her it's not your fault. 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.320 And at the precinct, Barbara breezes in in a tux 0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:52.520 now looking dapper as hell, like he has just come 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.760 from some kind of met galas. 0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:56.440 Or not met Gala. 0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.160 He's come from like some kind of policeman's ball where 0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:02.600 the tickets are, and they tell him about the sweater seamen, 0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:04.920 which could either nail the guy or if it's not his, 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:08.280 he like, you know, Jerome has grounds for another false 0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:11.240 arrests lawsuit and they'll be all working in Staten Island, 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.520 which apparently is the worst nightmare for all of these cops. 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:19.400 And Barba's like, well, let me go alone. Yes, yeah, 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:23.440 Barba's like, let him go until this case is air tight. 0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:25.920 This guy's waiting on a thirty six million dollar judgment 0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:28.080 that from the city that he's probably gonna get he 0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:30.520 is not a flight risk. And someone has to tell 0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:34.000 Live that they're cutting this guy loose and caresee's the 0:30:34.000 --> 0:30:36.280 new guy, so he gets the short straw. So Lives 0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:38.560 now on the phone annoyed because she's like, but Jenna, 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:41.240 I did him, and she tells Careesi to talk to 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:45.000 the coworkers, rush the DNA and get security footage from 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:47.800 the pizza place. So she gets interrupted by Uncle Dentist 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:51.800 who's like, well, my dental connects at one PP just 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:54.000 told me that you cut my niece's rapist loose. 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:54.720 What the fuck? 0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:57.960 And then he tells the dad Luke and also that 0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:00.600 the suspect is one of the Prospect Park three. He 0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.600 goes and the dad goes, oh, he's one of them, 0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:06.640 a known thug rapist who got off on a technicality, 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.560 which is like, look, the whole sentence is fully coded 0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:13.680 in racism. And Uncle Dentist is gassing Luke up too. 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:15.840 He's like telling him about the lawsuit, that's why they're 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.960 giving him special treatment, and Benson's like, we just need 0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:20.880 more evidence. We're still working on the case. But the 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:23.880 dad is like, who's pulling your strings? Al Sharpton, and 0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:26.880 then the dad storms off, So, you know, sadly, I 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:28.280 think this dad did vote for Trump. 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:29.640 At the precinct. 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:33.760 The download from Kara's family is that Jenna's backpack is 0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:36.320 still there, but that they were not partying, but Jenna 0:31:36.400 --> 0:31:38.760 did look kind of Green when she left. Around six o'clock, 0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:41.360 traffic cameras have Jenna on the street heading to the 0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:44.520 pizza place. Ten minutes later, she leaves. They're getting terru 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:46.640 on the footage from inside the pizza place because there 0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:48.680 was like a glitch and they obviously need Taru to like, 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:52.240 you know, clean it up. Live's phone rings, and before 0:31:52.280 --> 0:31:54.760 she picks it up, she calls him, Barbara, I can 0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:59.320 hear it, and it is there, tid cool she. 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:00.000 Does call it. 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:01.680 She goes, Barber's gonna want us to get on this 0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:03.920 or whatever, and so if you guys want to see it. 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:06.240 End of act one of this episode, we get a 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:10.200 Barbara from Live uh oh music swells Live is not 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:12.720 getting good news on the phone, and she says, we 0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:14.920 don't need to put a rush on that DNA anymore. 0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:19.120 Cut to a crime scene. Forensics is already there taking photos. 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:23.360 Jenna's dad, Luke, is cuffed and looking despondent. Then, once 0:32:23.400 --> 0:32:25.800 Finn and Caresy arrive on the scene, they pan to 0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:28.640 the floor where Jerome is lying they're dead, near a 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.520 tripod and a camera, and Luke is like, I was 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:33.360 just trying to get him to record a confession. I 0:32:33.360 --> 0:32:35.760 didn't mean to kill him, but there's a chair with 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.480 rope and Caresee's like, this doesn't look like an accident 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:42.960 and he's not wrong. So now after the commercial break, 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:47.240 we're seeing footage of the forced confession session where Jerome 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.440 is tied to a chair. Luke has a nail gun 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:53.600 and just keeps like nailing nails into the wall right 0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:55.959 behind him, demanding that he confess to what he did 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:58.120 to his daughter, and Luke keeps saying. 0:32:57.880 --> 0:32:58.760 Nothing, nothing. 0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:03.520 Jerome is coughing, He's begging the guy to stop. Luke 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:05.680 is threatening to shoot the nail gun through his dick, 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:08.040 and Jerome's like, okay, okay, I did it. I raped her, 0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:11.320 and then he starts saying my chest, I need air. 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:14.120 He's coughing, and then they stop the video. I mean, 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.440 thank god, I really did not want somebody to watch 0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:20.760 somebody suffocate on camera. They stop the video, Finn goes. 0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:23.400 It goes on from there. Luke did give CPR, but 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:25.680 the medical examiner says he died from a heart attack 0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:26.760 triggered by asthma. 0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:29.640 Luke called nine one one. He didn't mean to kill 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:30.000 the guy. 0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.120 Barba's like, it does not matter, Luke Davis is looking 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:37.160 at felony murder, which, as we remember I've only learned 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:39.160 through the course of doing this podcast, is when you 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:43.360 kill somebody in the course of committing another crime, Like 0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:45.480 even though it's not like a planned murder, you did 0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:47.560 kill someone while you were doing so it's felony murder, 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:51.800 which Careese is like, yeah, but he'll get off if 0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:56.440 he can prove extreme emotional duress, and Barbara goes boo, yeah, 0:33:56.520 --> 0:34:01.520 fordam law, which feels like it feels like he's kind 0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:04.760 of being condescending but also giving a compliment like classic 0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:08.160 Barbera and Benson's like, we need to push the DNA 0:34:08.320 --> 0:34:10.080 and the tar oo footage from the pizza place to 0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:12.120 see if this guy is good for Jenna's attack. If 0:34:12.160 --> 0:34:15.440 he's the guy, no jury is gonna convict Luke, and 0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:17.759 Barba's like, cool, thanks. If you guys come to a raiment, 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:19.400 keep your mouth shut, like I don't need you to 0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:20.919 be like helping get this guy off. 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:22.239 So now at a round. 0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:25.160 I don't like that they're so gung ho about trying 0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:27.480 to get him off. They're like, it's I don't know, 0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:30.000 I don't like it. It's just like duress are not 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.759 like this young man died without core. Its thing, and 0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:37.759 we don't know white woman, black man, Like I don't know. 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:41.520 We believe victims here at SVU, but like, what the fuck. 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:44.080 I don't care if he gave CPR, he was stressed, 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:49.080 what happened to his daughter. I'm not I'm devastated. Yeah, 0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:52.680 it's really hate the scene I get. And you someone 0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:54.680 who has asthma, how does that feel? 0:34:54.719 --> 0:34:58.080 Yes, it's I it's scary. I mean like it is 0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:01.160 really like I don't know, it's ares me. But also 0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:05.200 I think like they are like I love this actor 0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:08.600 Jamie McShane, but like they're lightly coding this guy as 0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:12.000 like racist. He's immediately jumping to the fact that and 0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:14.040 this guy that's like I have to It's like you 0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:15.840 can't just let the cops do their job. You're like, 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:18.400 I have to go seek justice, like I have to 0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:21.359 go take care of my baby girl or whatever. And 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:23.440 I think that's a little bit why we are not 0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:25.600 like finding a lot of sympathy for him, even though 0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:27.960 he did not want this to happen at least at 0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:32.719 this moment. Okay, So now at arraignment, Luke is represented 0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:36.280 by none other than Lorenzo D'sapio and if you'll remember, 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:39.000 he is the attorney who entered into a relationship with 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:41.000 his client, Kim rolins, Oh, so. 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:44.120 I wouldn't say not what is it, Vincenzo. 0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:50.000 What his name Lorenzo, Direpio, Lorenzo. She's always like, well, 0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:53.040 mister D'sapio says, and then she starts calling him Lorenzo 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:56.239 because now they're in a relationship, like because Kim is 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:02.000 a freaking crazy person. So he's pleading not guilty for 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:05.760 Luke mister Dasapio, and the courtroom erupts like. Jerome's family 0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:08.840 is all in there. They're furious. The mother is so upset, 0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:12.439 she's crying. She's going he killed my baby. Barbara wants 0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:16.480 remand D'sapio wants ro r. The judge is like, sorry, 0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:18.839 no vigilantes aloud, and he sets the bail at one 0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:22.920 million dollars. Jerome's family cheers when they hear the bail amount. 0:36:23.239 --> 0:36:26.760 Jenna is there like apologizing, hugging her dad. Uncle dentist 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.520 is like, we're gonna get you out. So in the hallway, 0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:33.399 Jerome's mom is talking to the press and telling them 0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:37.000 the NYPD framed my son for this. Rape for the 0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:39.359 original rape and now they're doing it again. They set 0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:42.080 them up to be killed. She points to Jenna. 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:45.760 Looking that great for him though too, it's like multiple 0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:50.640 accusations at this point. Yeah, one false accusation. Okay too, 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:51.359 that's you. 0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:55.480 Know, right right, And then she sees Jenna points at 0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:57.800 her calls are a liar, goes, you killed my son, 0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:01.480 and Cariesi arrives with more bad news. Taru got the 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:04.600 camera footage. Jerome was in the bathroom for less than 0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:08.320 two minutes, so now they're watching the video and Cariese's 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:10.680 giving the play by play. She goes into the bathroom 0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:13.640 for eight minutes. A line forms again, who are all 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.360 the people waiting in line to use this disgusting pizza bathroom? 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:19.759 But anyway, a line forms. Jerome knocks. He goes in 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:22.040 at six point thirty and he's in there for ninety 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:25.359 seconds with the bathroom door ajar the whole time, like 0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:27.400 if you were going to be attacking, you would close it, 0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.120 lock it behind you whatever. He follows her out with 0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:33.440 her purse. She has her clothes and tights on. The 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:36.759 tights is the clincher too, because it's like, yeah, we've 0:37:36.800 --> 0:37:40.000 seen people commit rapes very quickly on this show. Remember 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:44.080 the episode contact. I mean that is between two subway stops. 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:47.840 But we all we know as ladies, tights are not 0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:49.880 coming on and off in a quick way, you know, 0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:53.440 like tights are and he's fully closed. So maybe Jenna 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:57.799 was assaulted first and conflated things Live suggests and they're like, 0:37:57.960 --> 0:37:59.920 or she's a sixteen year old girl who got drunk 0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:02.760 sex and was afraid to tell her parents and lives 0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:04.799 like go check with her friends, find out how she 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:05.959 got the clonaza pan. 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:06.920 We're back on the. 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:11.760 Cut to jail where Jenna and her mom are talking 0:38:11.760 --> 0:38:14.319 to Luke through the glass with the phones right, like 0:38:14.360 --> 0:38:15.759 what do you call that? What do you call that 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.319 little phone booth like on you know where you get 0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:19.160 to talk through the phones. 0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:23.000 Oh, I never thought about my official name. Hopefully you 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:25.040 never have to use one of those carats. 0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:26.960 I hope I never have to, but maybe, like but 0:38:27.000 --> 0:38:29.200 in an acting scene or something, Yeah, to be like 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:31.040 I wired you the money. 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:33.200 It should be coming through. There should be money in 0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:37.880 your commissary. Now that's my audition. I had the glass, 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:40.840 yeah and go I'm thinking of you baby. 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:45.040 Yeah, So okay, the mom is going, well, they're saying 0:38:45.040 --> 0:38:47.720 this guy is innocent, and Luke's like yeah, but Neil, 0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.960 who is uncle dentist, is saying it's just politics, and 0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:54.560 he's like the dad asks Jenna, he did this to you, right, 0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:58.040 and Jenna's like, I mean, even if I'm not sure, 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.600 it's better if I just say it was right, it's 0:39:00.640 --> 0:39:04.120 better for you. And then uh oh, honey, watch a 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.239 television show. They record those convos, so they cut to 0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:10.400 Jenna in wood room Blinds talking to Amarl and Rollins 0:39:10.400 --> 0:39:11.839 and they're like playing her the time, like. 0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:14.279 You can't even shower in private, and you think you 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:16.880 get to just go on the phone with no. 0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:22.680 Yeah, no, yeah. So they're like, so, hey, girl, what 0:39:22.680 --> 0:39:24.520 do you mean when you said that? She's like, I 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.040 won't do anything to like fuck over my dad, and 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:29.560 they tell her, well, we know it wasn't Jerome, but 0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:32.799 we do think something happened to you. And now outside 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:35.759 of this woodroom blind's interrogation, Jenna's mom is mad that 0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:38.640 she can't go in, but Finn and Careesi are trying 0:39:38.640 --> 0:39:40.960 to just convince her to chill so that Jenna will 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:43.600 like spill, you know, which is like it's like much 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:45.920 easier without your parents there. She's already had to like 0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:48.600 give all the details about like semen in front of 0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:51.920 her dad and mom. So so, Jenna finally admits she 0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:54.160 had a couple sits from a vodka bottle, but no 0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:56.359 pills or drugs when she was at Kara's house, because 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:58.239 you know how we party at Kara's house, guys, we 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:02.200 get the vodka bottle passing. So after Kara's house, her 0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:06.000 memory gets fuzzy. She remembers she was sitting during the attack, 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.160 and Rollins goes show us, which they've never done anything 0:40:10.200 --> 0:40:12.279 like that before, Like I've never seen them be like 0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.359 acted out right now, and they make her like lean 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:18.319 back in the chair. She leans back, She looks up. 0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:21.360 She remembers sliding down in the chair. She says, I 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:24.560 was holding onto the arm rests. I remember his belt 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:28.280 buckle clinked over and over. He pulled up my sweater. 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.160 I couldn't move. His hands were so cold. They asked 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:33.279 her was there any watch? Was there jewelry? She goes 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.200 a big ring like and then she stops herself and 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:39.160 she goes, don't tell my mom please, Like she's clearly 0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:42.480 very worried for how much this has already affected her family. 0:40:42.880 --> 0:40:45.320 And then she goes a ring like my uncle Neil 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:48.080 wears and she's like, I think it was him, and 0:40:48.120 --> 0:40:50.960 they say think or no, and she says it was him. 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:53.359 My uncle Neil raped he raped me. 0:40:55.560 --> 0:40:56.200 It's like the bit. 0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:58.600 It's such a twist, but it's like, I also kind 0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:01.440 of know when you see the uncle come in Paul Adelstein, 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:03.560 and you're like, he's got a lot of IMDb credits, Like, 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:05.360 I don't think he's just coming in to be supportive 0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:07.160 uncle who works for the NYPD, you. 0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:10.719 Know, No, And yeah, for me, it was the NYPD 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:14.279 of it all, like, yeah, oh what a smart movie, 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:18.640 little rape guy, you have volunteer for the cops exactly. 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:23.720 So Benson and CREESI are behind the glass and Caresa 0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:26.080 goes an uncle would do her? 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:26.640 Uncle did it? 0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:29.520 I can't believe that and lives like yeah that what 0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:31.560 how long have you been? I mean it's like season sixteen. 0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:32.760 Haven't you been here for a minute? 0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:34.200 Like we're we're seeing. 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:37.359 Uncles do this kind of shit all the time. Back 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:41.800 at Live's office, they're figuring all this out. Barbara's not psyched. 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.719 He's like, aside from being an NYPD consultant. He's big 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:46.680 on the charity circuit. They were probably at the same 0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:50.920 black tie event earlier this episode, and he sets up 0:41:51.000 --> 0:41:53.000 dental clinics in third world countries. 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:54.080 I don't give a shit. 0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:57.480 Remember Jimmy Saville, wasn't he like a huge charity guy too. 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:01.640 He's testified in dozens of cases. If he's convicted, all 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.080 those cases are under scrutiny, which it is wild how 0:42:04.120 --> 0:42:07.240 many times somebody directly involved with the NYPD does something 0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.719 fucked up and they have to be like all those cases, 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:13.319 like if it's not Rudnick, this guy judges like all 0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:17.239 kinds of people that have testified, and Jenna has no 0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:19.360 motive to lie. They're like, she remembers the ring, the 0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:20.960 details line up with a dental DT. 0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:23.760 Do you think she lied in the beginning and because 0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:26.239 she was scared and there is gil or do you 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:29.520 think she really was in like a psychosis kind of state. 0:42:30.200 --> 0:42:33.799 I think you could be so traumatized by someone you 0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:37.200 trust and know, who's a member of your family doing 0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:40.440 that to you, that she could have totally been in 0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:43.840 like a like a fugue state of like just complete 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:46.880 trauma of like that happening plus the fact that she 0:42:47.040 --> 0:42:51.120 was on these drugs, you know, like kleanazepan is gonna 0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:52.080 make you all fucked up. 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:53.520 So that fucked with her memory. 0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:53.640 Yea. 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:56.720 So I don't think she was lying on purpose about Jerome. 0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:00.839 I'd like to think not. But so they were like, yeah, 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:02.880 she remembers the ring, and all the details line up 0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:06.520 with the dental office, including the clonazapan. Finn's like, this 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:09.800 is why I don't trust dentists, and I just lol, 0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:11.759 I mean, like that's so good, Like when he just 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:13.759 never goes to the dentist he doesn't trust them, or 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:16.600 like he brings someone to watch while he goes under. 0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:19.319 I just went to the dentist yesterday. You know, I 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:22.120 love we usaid this. I miss him. I miss him. 0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:24.399 I actually I don't know what I'm gonna do. It 0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:30.600 was a really pleasant experience. So I'm on the journey, okay. 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:32.840 And then Benson's like, why is the DNA on the 0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:37.040 sweater taking so long? So she tells Amorrow and Careesi, 0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:39.120 why don't you buddy up to uncle dentist and get 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:42.600 his DNA. So at his office they're talking to him. 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:42.879 Like a pal. 0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.560 They're like, hey, bro, like you're basically a cop, like 0:43:45.600 --> 0:43:47.960 we are, you know, let's talk bro to bro, you know. 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.360 They're like, we're just trying to get all the Evans 0:43:50.400 --> 0:43:52.799 together so we can pin this on Jerome, and we 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:54.960 just need your DNA so we can rule you out 0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:57.640 because obviously you're the greatest guy in the world. And 0:43:57.680 --> 0:44:00.440 then a hygienist comes in and Neil introduces her as 0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:04.000 his wife, Jaya. They also then she's like, come on, 0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:06.200 you have another patient, So right before he leaves, they're like, 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:07.160 can we swab you? 0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:07.960 And he's like sure. 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:10.080 So then Jaya is getting them a list of all 0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:14.000 the patients and explaining that anti anxiety drugs would be around, 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.600 but they're usually locked up, and they're like, well, they 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:18.759 have been in the room during Jenna's appointment, and she's like, 0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:21.640 oh my god, yeah, totally, it's totally possible. 0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:22.399 They were in the room. 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.000 And she's a teen now, and you know teens are 0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:30.040 thieving drug users. So yeah. So outside, Amorrow and Careesi 0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:32.479 are talking about how they clocked how quick the wife 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:34.560 wanted to paint Jenna as like a drugged out teen, 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:37.040 and that she's obviously protecting her husband, like helping set 0:44:37.120 --> 0:44:40.080 up the story. At the precinct, the guys are telling 0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:42.160 the gang they think the wife stood guard for him 0:44:42.160 --> 0:44:45.399 while he did this attack, and that she's the only 0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:47.279 one with access to the back rooms. It's a really 0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:49.520 small office. Theer's like a receptionist up front, and then 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:52.120 it's just her and him in the back. So Benson 0:44:52.200 --> 0:44:55.400 is now gaming out a working theory. Jaya gives Jenna 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:58.759 the drug in the chair, then the nitress. She's out 0:44:58.760 --> 0:45:01.440 of it, can't process the but she's in pain. After 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:03.960 she does a couple shots at her friend's house that 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:06.480 mixes with the meds, that's when she gets all out 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:08.920 of it, and then the whole encounter with Jerome happens. 0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:13.680 Finn gets a call done done. The DNA sweater seamen 0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:18.359 belongs to uncle dentist. Okay, we're closing in. They bring 0:45:18.440 --> 0:45:21.120 him in and they're like, what's up, bro, We just 0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:24.319 found JIZ on your niece's sweater and it's yours. And 0:45:24.360 --> 0:45:29.000 he's like, oh man, you're not gonna believe this embarrassing story, 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:32.200 but please keep it quiet. My wife and I are 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:35.279 so horny for each other. I boned her in the chair. 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:38.680 We had a little quickie before in between patients and. 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:41.680 Yeah, she was coming in, but I thought I would 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:44.600 just you know, fuck my wife, yeah quick in the office. 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:48.200 Then I pulled out, sprayed my jis everywhere, didn't clean 0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:49.960 it up, and let my niece come into the office 0:45:49.960 --> 0:45:52.279 and rub her sweater on it. And he's like, it's 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:54.480 nothing I really want my patience to read about. 0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:56.400 And they're like, oh, yes, of course. 0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:58.440 But the thing is, Jenna says you raped her, and 0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:02.520 he's like what that It's impossible and horrifying, and he's like, 0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:05.640 you know, nitrous can cause hallucinations, and Jaya said she 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:08.200 helped herself to some klnazepan. So now like suddenly these 0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:11.319 too are united front about the klnazepan and she had 0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:13.960 alcohol in her system and all this could lead her 0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:16.520 to accuse her uncle of rape. Then he threatens them 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:18.200 with a lawsuit if they keep this up, and he 0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:24.560 storms out, and Rollins is like it's true. Well, Rollins 0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:26.840 is like he's kind of right, Like this isn't the 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:29.480 most air tight case with all the drugs and booze involved. 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:32.040 But they also realized that if this dude raped his 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:34.560 own niece with his wife right there. 0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:35.960 This was not his first offense. 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:39.680 Okay, yeah, So she tells them give it a full 0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:43.400 court press. She wants uncle dentists in cuffs. This is 0:46:43.400 --> 0:46:46.920 what Live does. So now we're all checking in. Everyone's 0:46:46.960 --> 0:46:49.880 been looking looking, looking for more stuff to incriminate the dentist, 0:46:50.000 --> 0:46:53.279 and Robins found an old lawsuit that was settled, but 0:46:53.400 --> 0:46:56.480 that was not about bad dentistry. They have to see 0:46:56.520 --> 0:47:00.480 if Barba can possibly get along around the confidential of 0:47:00.520 --> 0:47:03.480 it all. In walks Jenna and her mom and they're like. 0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:06.640 The mom's like, Jenna needs to tell you something. So 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:10.040 now in Live's office, Jenna is fully recanting. She's like, 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:12.719 I shouldn't have said that uncle Neil did this. She's 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:16.560 not saying he didn't do this, She's saying, I shouldn't 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:19.600 have said that uncle Neil did this. Her therapist said 0:47:19.600 --> 0:47:21.880 that she was confused and that trauma and drugs and 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.840 alcohol can mess with short term memory. And now Jenna's 0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:27.280 mom is saying that Jenna was suggestible at the time 0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:29.760 and that when she left Jenna alone with the cops, 0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:31.399 they planted the idea in her head. 0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:33.160 So the mom goes, you're. 0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:35.400 Framing my brother and you're using my daughter to do it, 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:38.319 and Barba's like, oh did he tell you that? Who 0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:40.919 referred you to this therapist? And the mom is doubling down. 0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:43.239 She's like, don't try to twist it. And it's like, no, 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:45.279 did your brother refer to you to the therapist or what? 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:47.560 And like it is hard to watch how. 0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:50.759 She is so like, well, it reminds me of the 0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:52.719 Natasha Leone episode too. 0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:55.359 Yes, fuck these uncles yo. 0:47:56.360 --> 0:48:02.600 Yeah, absolutely never trusts an uncle except my brothers are good. 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:07.440 It is true. I do like uncle, I do like. 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:09.600 And I love my own uncles. I don't have a 0:48:09.640 --> 0:48:12.319 single creepy uncle like I my uncle. Like, I had 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.759 an uncle who suffered from schizophrenia and he told me 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:17.439 the craziest stories and he would tell me perverted jokes 0:48:17.440 --> 0:48:19.680 all the time, and I never felt uncomfortable around him. 0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:20.360 He was great. 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:22.520 Well, I have an uncle put a knife to my 0:48:22.600 --> 0:48:27.600 throat as a joke. So I have a fucking creepy 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:31.840 pun I guess yeah, yikes own the salami factory? 0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:36.080 Wait what about the salami factory? 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:36.640 He owned it? 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:40.200 Oh, we owned a Hey, before I ate meet I 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:42.000 would have really liked to have met him, because I 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:44.520 do love salami. No, I just kidding the knife cancels 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:48.760 that out. Okay, so they're like, how about the sweater semen? 0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:52.120 And how was it found inside your sweat? Because they 0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:53.879 were like what about the sweater semen? And the mom 0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:56.680 goes he explained how that got there, and they're like 0:48:56.840 --> 0:48:59.399 inside her sweater, which is the first time they're talking 0:48:59.400 --> 0:48:59.680 about that. 0:48:59.719 --> 0:49:02.279 This was the semen was in it. It wasn't like 0:49:02.320 --> 0:49:03.520 on a sleeve. It was like. 0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:07.000 Sloppy, are you with your come when you're fucking raping 0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:10.200 your knees? Like I lean up your giz like that's 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:14.640 so confident, I know, I know so gross. And the 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:16.719 mom was just like plugging her ears. She's like a 0:49:16.800 --> 0:49:19.120 la la la, and Jenna's like, I'm not accusing my uncle. 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:20.360 He would never do that to me. 0:49:21.000 --> 0:49:23.600 Later, Barba's like, well there goes the whole case and 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:25.880 lives like you need to chill. The mother is obviously 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.680 pressuring Jenna there are no other victims yet, why don't 0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:31.839 we subpoena his patient list? And Careese points out that 0:49:31.840 --> 0:49:34.040 that plays right into his claim that the NYPD is 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:36.440 on a witch hunt to get him. Finn has the 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:39.480 idea to call the press like live you still friends 0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:43.719 with that reporter Jimmy Mack and Live goes I am 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:46.920 and I do owe him a drink. And remember that 0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:49.440 Jimmy Mack is the reporter played by Alec Baldwin, and 0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:51.680 he's only in one other episode. He's referred to in 0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:53.799 this episode, but he only appears in what Don't We 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:54.399 Hate Him? 0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:58.359 When we meet him in that episode, Jimmy Mack, Yeah, 0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:02.880 like is obnoxious. Yes, he's up to no good. I 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:05.040 feel like he fucks with the evid or the story 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:05.640 or like. 0:50:05.719 --> 0:50:07.520 He fucks with the story. But then I think he 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:09.920 makes right in the end. I think he does something 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:12.799 at the end to like get Live back on his 0:50:12.840 --> 0:50:17.080 good side. He Jimmy is in the episode called Criminal Stories, 0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:19.839 which is a horrific episode that we've covered, and at 0:50:19.840 --> 0:50:23.680 the end of it he does write how the guy 0:50:23.960 --> 0:50:25.560 that did it did it and then try to pin 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:27.359 it on his best friend. So he makes up it, 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:30.680 makes it up to Benson by you know, outing this 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:33.200 rich guy in the press and everything. Afterwards, and they 0:50:33.200 --> 0:50:35.880 have a toast and he says he's probably going to retire, 0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:37.800 but I guess he doesn't because he's back still working 0:50:37.800 --> 0:50:42.200 for the Ledger in this episode. So Barba's like, do 0:50:42.400 --> 0:50:45.120 not leak this to the press, and they're like, well, 0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:47.680 if there are more victims, they think they're all alone, 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:49.400 and when they find out that there are more of them, 0:50:49.440 --> 0:50:52.440 they're gonna come running. And Barba's like, I'm not hearing this. 0:50:52.680 --> 0:50:55.640 And so now top of act four and the word 0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.680 is out. Baby uncle duntist rapist is giving a press 0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:02.400 conference defending himself. His wife is by his side. Carisi goes, 0:51:02.600 --> 0:51:05.279 the wife looks drugged herself. I think that would have 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.600 been a good touch to have Jaya feel a little 0:51:07.600 --> 0:51:09.879 bit more drugged out in the other in the earlier part, 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.839 but maybe it would have been too obvious, and Carisi goes, 0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:19.000 he probably does her high too. Textbooks somnophiliac sleeping beauty syndrome, 0:51:19.400 --> 0:51:21.680 which is disgusting, but a lot of men have this, 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:23.839 Like a lot of men have no problem just having 0:51:23.840 --> 0:51:26.319 sex with a woman that is completely unresponsive and it's 0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:30.279 very disturbing. Amaro goes, what's the point of that, and 0:51:30.360 --> 0:51:32.640 Finn goes, they don't talk back, and. 0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:35.080 I'm like, I don't know, Finn, I don't love that 0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:35.719 for you. 0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:38.759 In season sixteen, that definitely seems like a season two 0:51:38.920 --> 0:51:43.319 comment of Finn's coming back in, but I guess he's 0:51:43.360 --> 0:51:47.000 explaining why some of these more misogynistic man would do 0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:52.840 something like that. But the dentist's lawyer is a defense attorney, 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:57.360 Sophia Crane, who she's pictured here in the press conference. 0:51:57.600 --> 0:52:01.759 She's also defended Betty Gilpin, who was famously a teacher 0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:04.160 who had sex with a student, and she goes on 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:08.120 to defend Gregory Yeats in the day Dream Believer episode Yeah, 0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:11.960 and she's squawking about how this says all an NYPD 0:52:12.160 --> 0:52:15.400 tactic to distract from the whole Jerown Jones thing, and 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:17.920 liv comes in holding a copy of the New York 0:52:18.000 --> 0:52:21.920 Ledger with demon dentist rapes niece on the cover, and 0:52:21.960 --> 0:52:24.440 she's like, well, Jimmy Mack promised to leave the vic's 0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:27.680 name out of it. But whatever the move worked, the 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:30.960 phones have been ringing. They've got five people calling so 0:52:31.120 --> 0:52:34.480 far claiming to have been victims of the of Neil, 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:37.600 and Benson wants to wipe the smile off this son 0:52:37.600 --> 0:52:40.560 of a bitch's face. So now all these women are 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:43.120 in the precinct, they're all telling their stories, were cutting 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:46.200 towards like among all of them how the dentists assaulted them, 0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:49.319 and a lot of them knew him personally. A lot 0:52:49.400 --> 0:52:51.279 of them he was friends with their parents or he 0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:55.040 was a family friend of some kind. So eleven victims 0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:57.319 total have come forward from the past twenty years, and 0:52:57.360 --> 0:52:59.320 you know, if eleven have come forward that there's probably 0:52:59.360 --> 0:53:02.880 more like fun and fifty. Benson doesn't know if this 0:53:03.040 --> 0:53:05.800 is enough. These are all tough cases, tough to prove, 0:53:06.160 --> 0:53:09.640 especially if Jenna and Marcy refused to testify and lives like, 0:53:09.880 --> 0:53:12.560 let's go talk to Luke the dad. So the dad, 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:15.279 Luke is at Rikers and he's back on the phone 0:53:15.280 --> 0:53:15.920 through the glass. 0:53:15.920 --> 0:53:16.879 He gets two of these. 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:20.319 He gets two scenes with the phone glass Lucky and 0:53:20.480 --> 0:53:23.680 he's talking to Finn and Creasy now and he's like, Neil, 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:27.360 no way, he's paying for my lawyer. He's stood by me. 0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.319 And Finn's like, stood by you or set you up? 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:34.359 He made you like they remind him. They're like, he's 0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:36.799 the one who riled you up about Jerome. He made 0:53:36.840 --> 0:53:40.120 sure that Jenna never talked to us alone and that 0:53:40.000 --> 0:53:42.480 the parents were with her so that she couldn't really 0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:45.719 like say anything that would make her feel uncomfortable. Sent 0:53:45.760 --> 0:53:48.120 her to his therapist to convince her that she'd invented 0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:51.200 the whole thing. Like he's done a lot of shady 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:53.480 shit to put you in this position. They tell him, 0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:55.960 come on, man, like she remembers details. You know, she's 0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:58.960 a good girl who tells the truth. Plus sweater seamen 0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:03.040 inside this. That's when the dad's face is like fuck 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:05.360 and he starts freaking out. He's like, I gotta go, 0:54:05.480 --> 0:54:06.880 I gotta go. You gotta get me out of here. 0:54:06.920 --> 0:54:08.359 I have to take care of this, which is more 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:11.839 of this like macho bullshit of like, yeah, you're actually incarcerated. 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:15.000 You can't take care of anything. Now talk to your wife. 0:54:15.040 --> 0:54:17.520 They said, could you do that for Jenna. So now 0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:20.600 the mom Marcy is talking to the cops and telling 0:54:20.680 --> 0:54:24.080 them that Luke is on suicide watch. At Rikers, she 0:54:24.239 --> 0:54:27.000 tells them you and now you can kind of tell 0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:29.840 she's moved over to their side because she's like, three 0:54:29.880 --> 0:54:32.520 friends have called me since that story broke to say 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:35.200 that he molested their daughters. Two of them he groped, 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:37.799 the third he may have raped, and I referred all 0:54:37.840 --> 0:54:40.479 of them. So now she's finally like, oh my god, 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:43.800 getting the picture that her brother is a psychotic rapist. 0:54:44.040 --> 0:54:45.960 She's like, I don't want to put Jenna through testifying 0:54:46.000 --> 0:54:48.319 and lives like, okay, so your husband does hard time, 0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:51.239 Jerome is dead, and your brother who's a rapist just 0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:54.080 gets to walk. And Barba is like, I mean, I 0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:56.440 can see about a plea for Luke, but you gotta 0:54:56.440 --> 0:54:59.799 get Jenna to testify. And she's like the sister goes, 0:54:59.840 --> 0:55:02.680 he too smart, you can't catch him, and they're like, 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:05.280 your daughter can. And now it's one of my favorite 0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:08.319 things on SBU A diner sting. I love when they're 0:55:08.360 --> 0:55:12.279 at a diner. Somehow this dumbass rapist has agreed to 0:55:12.320 --> 0:55:14.960 meet with his niece and accuser at a brightly lit 0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:16.000 diner in the middle of the day. 0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:18.440 I do want to say I recently met someone. I'm 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:21.560 not going to give any details, but they did a 0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:25.359 They did one of these secret phone things to get 0:55:25.400 --> 0:55:27.680 their abuser, who's surveying. 0:55:28.960 --> 0:55:30.600 He was now serving twenty eight years. 0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:35.040 But yeah, they like got together with a detective who 0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:38.640 believed her, and they put this big thing together and 0:55:38.680 --> 0:55:41.239 she kept him on the phone and got an apology 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:45.120 out of him without any denial, which means you admit it. 0:55:45.160 --> 0:55:51.080 Holy shit, yeah, holy shit, Yeah, that's fucking nuts. Well 0:55:51.280 --> 0:55:55.160 I'm glad it were I look, it's only legal to conversations. 0:55:55.239 --> 0:55:57.200 But you in my head, I'm like, oh, this is 0:55:57.239 --> 0:55:59.880 a movies thing. This is what they do in the movies. 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:04.000 But I just recently met someone that had unfortunately a 0:56:04.080 --> 0:56:07.600 really uh fucked fucked up stuff happened in heart. 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:09.240 But she she's. 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:12.719 The one that put her abuse, her away with an undercover. 0:56:13.280 --> 0:56:15.120 She got to be I'm glad she got to be 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:18.080 instrumental and putting his ass away for a long time. 0:56:18.400 --> 0:56:21.160 So the diners thing is happening. The whole gang is 0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:25.440 watching from a van. Finn is at the counter, you know, relaxing, 0:56:26.160 --> 0:56:29.960 eating a piece of pie. Maybe. Jenna tries to get 0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:34.200 her uncle to admit it. He won't, and then she's like, well, 0:56:34.480 --> 0:56:37.080 I heard you paid out some of your other victims, 0:56:37.160 --> 0:56:39.279 and he vaguely is like, I'll take care of you 0:56:39.320 --> 0:56:42.080 and your mom, but like this isn't enough, like this 0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:44.200 isn't enough, like what he's saying, he's being vague about 0:56:44.200 --> 0:56:47.680 his responsibility, and he's about to leave. So Jenna pulls 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:50.000 out the big one. She's like, I'm late. I think 0:56:50.000 --> 0:56:52.719 I'm pregnant and he's like, you're not pregnant. She's like, no, 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:53.840 I'm late. I'm think I'm bring it. 0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:54.359 She's yelling. 0:56:54.440 --> 0:56:56.000 So he like shoves her back down on the table 0:56:56.400 --> 0:56:58.640 and he's like, I couldn't have gotten you pregnant. I 0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:01.400 had of aseectomy. She's like, so you did it. You 0:57:01.480 --> 0:57:03.840 raped me. And he's like it's not a big deal. 0:57:03.880 --> 0:57:07.239 You're not so special, Jenna, and she goes, I was 0:57:07.280 --> 0:57:09.480 a virgin and she says it over and over and 0:57:09.520 --> 0:57:11.439 he like does not care, and he starts to walk out, 0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:14.720 and then Finn grabs his shoulder, flashes his badge and says, 0:57:15.000 --> 0:57:17.200 I never met a bad man that wasn't afraid of 0:57:17.240 --> 0:57:20.040 a baby. Works every time and put it on a 0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:23.760 fucking T shirt that is so good. Same again, I 0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:26.200 never met a bad man that wasn't afraid of a baby. 0:57:26.800 --> 0:57:30.240 Like the like the things that these men will do 0:57:30.400 --> 0:57:32.280 just to like get a baby out of their life, 0:57:32.400 --> 0:57:33.040 you know what I mean. 0:57:33.400 --> 0:57:36.200 Yeah, but that was like kind of a thing on 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:38.880 TikTok warts Like if you want, like if a man's 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:42.520 not leaving you alone and you want him to say 0:57:42.560 --> 0:57:47.760 that you need money, yeah, say you want to be 0:57:47.800 --> 0:57:48.480 a housewife. 0:57:50.080 --> 0:57:52.600 Yeah, yeah, I would love to just and I have 0:57:52.640 --> 0:57:56.000 a really bad shopping problem. So Rollin's and Creasy come in. 0:57:56.040 --> 0:57:58.280 They tell Jenna she did great. So now back at 0:57:58.320 --> 0:58:01.240 the precinct, Jenna tells goes to see her mom and 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.240 she's like, he admitted it, he did it. 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:03.800 They hug. 0:58:04.200 --> 0:58:06.800 The mom says she's so sorry. Jenna says she's sorry. 0:58:06.840 --> 0:58:08.440 I'm at least glad that these two are on the 0:58:08.480 --> 0:58:11.720 same page now and have each other. Then of course 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:14.160 they're bringing in Neil at the exact same time, and 0:58:14.200 --> 0:58:15.480 he's a cocky psychopath. 0:58:15.560 --> 0:58:15.680 You know. 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:17.960 He's like, you guys have nothing. I was calming down 0:58:18.000 --> 0:58:20.360 a paranoid girl, and they're like cool, and what about 0:58:20.400 --> 0:58:23.640 the other seventeen victims that have come forward. When Jenna's 0:58:23.640 --> 0:58:26.520 mom sees him too, she goes nuts. She runs at him, 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:28.120 calling him a son of a bitch, which is an 0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:31.840 insult against your mutual mother. But she's like, my daughter, 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:34.600 how could you? And he's like, Jenna has issue, she 0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:36.640 always has, and it's like I thought she was like 0:58:36.680 --> 0:58:39.400 a good girl, straight a student. Like it's one thing 0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:42.080 in the Natasha Lee Own episode where this guy specifically 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:47.280 fucking targets her because she is troubled, but in this 0:58:47.320 --> 0:58:50.200 one it's like she has like, now you're really grasping 0:58:50.240 --> 0:58:52.880 at straws, dude. She's like, I'm your sister. How could 0:58:52.880 --> 0:58:55.640 you do this to your own family? Live calms her down. 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:59.360 Cariese's fingerprinting Neil, saying I should have let her get 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:00.000 a piece of you. 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:00.960 Raped her daughter. 0:59:01.280 --> 0:59:03.560 Her husband's in jail for killing a guy that should 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:06.040 have been you, and Neil goes, you're hurting me. 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:07.880 I'm a dentist and I need my hands. 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:10.000 As if he's gonna be doing like a fucking crown 0:59:10.080 --> 0:59:14.520 tomorrow morning. Cariese crunches his fingers k which we never 0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:17.800 see Careese get, like, do any like the Stabler stuff 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:20.800 where he throws a guy against us of a wall, 0:59:21.040 --> 0:59:22.360 or like you know a little bit of a. 0:59:22.360 --> 0:59:25.200 Neck show got a soft boy. He's a soft boy. 0:59:25.200 --> 0:59:28.000 But he crunches this dentist's fingers and he goes, what 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:31.960 hurts more this? Or what you did to Jenna? Ooh, 0:59:32.000 --> 0:59:36.800 that'll teach him. Amorrow is talking to Live. Jenna's family 0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:40.600 and Jerome's family are both destroyed. How can either of 0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:45.440 them start over? Live asks and at the courthouse. Barbara 0:59:45.600 --> 0:59:48.960 is meeting with Jerome's mother. He tells her listen, Jerome 0:59:49.040 --> 0:59:52.000 was innocent. He explains what happens and how Luke was 0:59:52.200 --> 0:59:54.360 not trying to murder your son. We have footage of 0:59:54.400 --> 0:59:57.640 him administering CPR, but a jury might let him go 0:59:57.720 --> 0:59:59.560 if we bring him to trial, if he pleads to 0:59:59.640 --> 1:00:01.600 man's he'll do time. 1:00:01.960 --> 1:00:05.720 So it's like, it's so fucked up. Barba's kind of 1:00:05.760 --> 1:00:08.160 asking like, can I give the deal? Like I think? 1:00:08.240 --> 1:00:10.280 And the mom is like, so he gets a deal 1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:12.960 and my innocent son is dead whose life matters to you? 1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:17.480 And Barbara basically says, I'm sorry for your loss, but 1:00:17.560 --> 1:00:20.360 it is what it is. And then that's stick wolf baby. 1:00:21.080 --> 1:00:26.960 It's so it's really it's a really fuck episode. Yeah, 1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.880 because that poor mom, she's just like she does. 1:00:29.920 --> 1:00:34.320 Fill as well time she'll be fucking alive, but she 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:37.800 deserves justice, like what you know, But he's right, a 1:00:37.880 --> 1:00:40.480 jury could side with that man. 1:00:41.520 --> 1:00:43.480 Yeah, and that he did CPR and he called ie 1:00:43.480 --> 1:00:46.200 one one and he never actually like he never actually 1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:49.280 I wonder how he got him there? How did he 1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:52.240 get him to this like room with the chair and 1:00:52.280 --> 1:00:56.960 the wood violence, nail gun yeah, like so assault at 1:00:56.960 --> 1:01:00.200 the very least. Anyway, I'm sure we have a lot 1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:01.360 of crime to dive into. 1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:04.160 So oh, it's not going to be a good day 1:01:04.320 --> 1:01:06.920 for anyone who wants to be in a good mood. 1:01:07.440 --> 1:01:18.800 We'll dive into it. So two cases I'm focusing on. 1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:22.800 So the first is kind of a vengeance father situation 1:01:23.720 --> 1:01:28.360 and the other is doctors up to no good in 1:01:28.400 --> 1:01:29.160 New York City. 1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:32.520 So that is the two that we'll be doing. 1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:36.440 I know they mentioned the Central Park five kind of 1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:40.360 lawsuit false arrest situation, but there's other episodes that we 1:01:40.440 --> 1:01:44.000 can dive into that case. It's kind of yes, it's 1:01:44.040 --> 1:01:48.760 so big and decades and to be honest, it involves 1:01:48.760 --> 1:01:53.400 her stupid new president, and I didn't want to talk. 1:01:53.240 --> 1:01:55.040 Or think about him more than I have to. 1:01:55.560 --> 1:01:58.840 And he was just such a big part of trying 1:01:58.880 --> 1:02:03.360 to put to death falsely accused young black men. So 1:02:04.120 --> 1:02:06.880 thank god he's in charge of the free world. So 1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:10.640 this is the Gary Planchet case. So Gary Plichet at 1:02:10.680 --> 1:02:13.320 the time, thirty nine years old son is kidnapped for 1:02:13.400 --> 1:02:18.560 ten days. This dad is a heavy equipment salesman and 1:02:18.640 --> 1:02:22.800 the kidnapper is Jeffrey Dasset, twenty five at the time 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:27.200 of the crime, was a karate instructor who taught Plache's 1:02:27.200 --> 1:02:32.240 three sons. Dosset picked up Jody the Sun at the 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:35.880 son's eleven years old, at the Planchet home on Sunday morning, 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:40.920 February nineteenth, nineteen eighty four. He told June the Mom Planchet, 1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:43.880 I mean, I can't okay, I can't take this as 1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:47.240 seriously as they should because their names are out of control. 1:02:47.840 --> 1:02:50.760 But he told June the Mom, like, hey, we're gonna 1:02:50.760 --> 1:02:53.320 come back in fifteen minutes. I just want to show 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:57.520 the boy some carpet I've been laying. I mean, I'm eleven. 1:02:57.680 --> 1:02:59.480 I don't want to look at carpet being laid. I 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:03.160 don't under stand this boy. I don't understand this being. 1:03:02.960 --> 1:03:05.120 A good I'm watching cartoons and I gotta go watch 1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:06.000 carpet go down. 1:03:06.120 --> 1:03:09.120 No, but she had little clause to doubt him because 1:03:09.120 --> 1:03:11.920 he was a frequent visitor. He was an ex marine 1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:17.560 who got the boys in shape, and yeah, they love it. 1:03:17.600 --> 1:03:21.520 They loved this Korean style karate. This guy would drive 1:03:21.560 --> 1:03:24.520 them down to tournaments. So Jody the Boy who was 1:03:24.640 --> 1:03:29.400 kidnapped about the Gary was like he's he's all our 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:32.800 best friend. And that's a quote from the Washington Post. 1:03:32.960 --> 1:03:35.120 And I'm not going to use it on any current 1:03:35.200 --> 1:03:39.600 cases or anything post Bezos buying, since it's like the 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:43.320 dawn of a new era. But I think you know 1:03:43.440 --> 1:03:47.080 any old reporting I can use so But and he 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:50.240 was a classic pedophile, said Mike Barnett, who is the 1:03:50.240 --> 1:03:54.520 sheriff deputy in this case. His definition to the Washington 1:03:54.560 --> 1:03:57.680 Post of a classic pedophile is they seek out the 1:03:57.680 --> 1:04:00.560 type of situation where they can be involved on a 1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:04.800 frequent basis with kids. But they're different from rapists who 1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:09.040 hate their victims, and that they love their victims, and 1:04:09.600 --> 1:04:11.840 a very concise way to put it. 1:04:12.200 --> 1:04:15.640 I like that it started small. 1:04:15.800 --> 1:04:18.160 First, you ask if any students want to learn to drive, 1:04:18.680 --> 1:04:21.000 and Jodie's hand went up in the air, and he 1:04:21.080 --> 1:04:25.280 remembers like sitting on the teacher's lap and getting touched 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:25.520 in a. 1:04:25.520 --> 1:04:26.480 Way he didn't like. 1:04:26.720 --> 1:04:30.840 And now he understands his boundaries were getting tested, but 1:04:30.920 --> 1:04:32.720 he didn't say anything at the time. But he would 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:34.160 let the rest of the kids go to seven to 1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:36.960 eleven for snacks, but hold him back for extra room. 1:04:37.640 --> 1:04:41.160 So Jeffrey faced sexual abuse, you know, wrong side of 1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:43.840 the tracks. Classic kind of situation for a lot of 1:04:43.880 --> 1:04:47.400 criminals that we cover on this. He was one of 1:04:47.480 --> 1:04:50.240 seven and he was molested numerous times as a child, 1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:54.720 though his family would only confirm one incident. But I 1:04:54.760 --> 1:04:58.480 don't know why that's yeah, Okay, Gary moved out of 1:04:58.520 --> 1:05:01.000 the family home when his marriage wasn't working. 1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:02.200 So this is Jody's father. 1:05:02.360 --> 1:05:06.560 So at this time, you know, the Karate lessons are happening. 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:09.720 He's grooming these kids. He has a focus on Jody. 1:05:10.680 --> 1:05:13.120 The dad and the mom are not The marriage isn't 1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:16.120 going well, so the dad moves out August of nineteen 1:05:16.160 --> 1:05:19.440 eighty three, and that's when this creep starts hanging out 1:05:19.480 --> 1:05:22.760 more and more with June, and then the wife slash 1:05:22.880 --> 1:05:26.840 mom and Dassett do end up having an intimate relationship 1:05:26.880 --> 1:05:30.280 with each other. So oh no, yeah, and her friends 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:32.760 said to the Washington Post that they understand how she 1:05:32.840 --> 1:05:35.440 came to lean on this younger dude when her separation 1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:38.760 became tense, because she does have all these kids and 1:05:38.800 --> 1:05:43.360 being a MoMA's heart, sometimes you need your back blown out. Okay, So, 1:05:44.000 --> 1:05:46.120 but she was starting to be confused by all the 1:05:46.160 --> 1:05:49.680 time he was obsessed with Jody and not the other kids, 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:52.720 just Jody all the time. And Jody was obsessed with it. 1:05:52.760 --> 1:05:55.480 Stopped doing basketball, stopped doing football, was just karate all 1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:59.480 the time. So, but this dude was bad on all accounts. 1:05:59.560 --> 1:06:01.640 So he had bad checks, there was fraud. He had 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:05.400 a ninth great education, he was a dropout, but he 1:06:05.440 --> 1:06:08.840 was trying to fund this karate pedophile passion project of his. 1:06:09.360 --> 1:06:11.280 So because of that, there was a lot of schemes 1:06:11.320 --> 1:06:14.000 that he owed a lot of people money, and so 1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:16.560 there was a warrant out for his arrest because of 1:06:16.600 --> 1:06:18.840 some of his money situations. 1:06:19.640 --> 1:06:20.240 He didn't want to. 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:24.240 Go to jail because he couldn't see Jody, and so 1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:29.240 he kidnapped him and he went to California. After several 1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:33.040 hours after Dawsett left with her son, June became alarmed finally, 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:36.440 so she called her brother, she called the deputy sheriff, 1:06:37.400 --> 1:06:39.960 she called a family friend, and then she drove down 1:06:40.000 --> 1:06:42.760 to Port Arthur, where Dassett was from, to help like 1:06:42.920 --> 1:06:45.280 kind of boots on the ground for herself to find 1:06:45.320 --> 1:06:47.840 her son. But they had rode a bus to la 1:06:47.960 --> 1:06:50.280 and on the way, Dawsett shaved his beard and they 1:06:50.360 --> 1:06:53.320 checked into a motel. Four days went by, and she 1:06:53.520 --> 1:06:56.840 finally told Gary on the racquetball court that Jodi was gone, 1:06:57.000 --> 1:07:00.960 and the FBI was alerted. One week after Jody vanished. 1:07:00.960 --> 1:07:02.840 The phone ring and it was a Dassett and he 1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:06.440 warned June against telling anyone he'd called and ordered her 1:07:06.440 --> 1:07:09.840 to bring the other children and their school transcripts and 1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:13.680 let's all meet where the film Hill Street Blues was 1:07:13.680 --> 1:07:16.960 filmed or the show whatever. Wherever they're filming Hill Street 1:07:17.000 --> 1:07:20.000 Blues is where they were staying. And he's like, come 1:07:20.040 --> 1:07:22.040 meet me here if you ever want to see Jody again. 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:25.200 And this is according to the Washington Post, so I 1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:28.000 guess he was. But the school's transcripts it was funny 1:07:28.080 --> 1:07:30.640 to me where it's like. But he was trying to 1:07:30.640 --> 1:07:32.640 set them up in school after they all ran away, 1:07:32.680 --> 1:07:34.800 Like I don't understand, but she begged this guy. She's like, 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:36.720 if we don't get Jody back, I can lose custody 1:07:36.720 --> 1:07:39.400 of all my kids, and that carry was threatening her. 1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:40.920 But this was a ruse that was made up by 1:07:40.960 --> 1:07:42.960 the cops. They were like giving her lies to try 1:07:42.960 --> 1:07:46.160 to convince him. She did everything the cops said. She 1:07:46.240 --> 1:07:48.560 played along and they recorded a bunch of the calls. 1:07:48.600 --> 1:07:53.800 They phone trap traced themsel the Samoa Motel in Anaheim, California, 1:07:53.920 --> 1:07:58.479 room thirty eight blocks from Disneyland. So February twenty ninth, 1:07:58.520 --> 1:08:02.040 the FBI agents make their Jody was actually pleading to 1:08:02.120 --> 1:08:02.840 stay with him. 1:08:03.400 --> 1:08:04.080 Oh my god. 1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:06.600 Yeah, his blonde hair was dyed black so he could 1:08:06.680 --> 1:08:09.400 like pass him off as his son. But Jody flew 1:08:09.440 --> 1:08:14.200 home while Dawsett was indicted for aggravated kidnapping. According to Barnett, 1:08:14.760 --> 1:08:19.080 the sheriff deputy, that outside of the Orange County, California jail, 1:08:19.080 --> 1:08:21.880 he confessed to having sex with Jody and all the 1:08:21.880 --> 1:08:24.639 gory details, along with other children in the Baton rouge 1:08:24.720 --> 1:08:28.080 aia whose parents were then advised that their kids were. 1:08:28.000 --> 1:08:28.919 Also being assaulted. 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:33.400 So then Barnett tells the dad about the rape, and 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:36.000 once he heard that, the dad goes to the bar 1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:39.920 with an executive from his job and the dads He 1:08:39.960 --> 1:08:43.840 worked at a radio station WBRZ. The exec called the 1:08:43.960 --> 1:08:48.800 radio station you know, his company, and confirmed to the bartender. Right, 1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:51.960 so he goes, So the execs everyone's at the bar, 1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:55.559 He calls his job. He hangs up and then tells 1:08:55.600 --> 1:08:59.960 the bartender. Yeah, they're they're flying dasset in at nine, 1:09:00.080 --> 1:09:05.360 I know eight. So then the dad overhears this remark 1:09:05.760 --> 1:09:09.320 and goes to the airport. So at the airport he 1:09:09.360 --> 1:09:12.080 gets a cup of coffee, he has a drink at 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:14.880 the bar. He paces in the lobby, you know, he 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:18.720 keeps checking flight times. He called a friend from the payphone, 1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:21.000 and that friend did try to warn police, but it 1:09:21.080 --> 1:09:24.200 was too late. So Gary whispered to the phone in 1:09:24.240 --> 1:09:27.720 the row of payphones. Here he comes, you're about to 1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:30.640 hear a shot. The friend heard what happened next, So 1:09:30.680 --> 1:09:34.120 the man is accused of so, you know, raping. 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:35.160 His son is getting off a. 1:09:35.080 --> 1:09:39.040 Flight in Baton Rouge from Dallas, and they bring this 1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:43.800 criminal cuffed up home, and the dad whirled from the 1:09:43.840 --> 1:09:46.920 bank of payphones and put a thirty eight. I don't 1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:49.680 know what that means, but again to Dossa's head and 1:09:49.760 --> 1:09:54.400 fired once. And that was on Friday night, March sixteenth, 1:09:54.479 --> 1:09:55.320 nineteen eighty four. 1:09:56.360 --> 1:09:58.040 And then he slammed the phone down. 1:09:58.720 --> 1:10:01.519 But because there's all this press there, the shooting was 1:10:01.600 --> 1:10:06.519 viewed by millions on the nightly news. No. Yeah, So 1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:09.920 then the sheriff's deputy tells the Washington Post, and the 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:11.439 Washington Post is shady throughout it. 1:10:11.479 --> 1:10:12.120 You'll see more. 1:10:12.200 --> 1:10:14.800 They call him beefy, like they have really funny adjectives 1:10:14.840 --> 1:10:17.519 for everybody. But he became the first cop to lose 1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:22.720 a prisoner on TV since Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald. 1:10:23.200 --> 1:10:26.240 So wow, that's like a thing. Damn. 1:10:28.040 --> 1:10:30.880 He screamed, son of a bitch, Why Gary, why'd you 1:10:30.960 --> 1:10:34.360 do it? And that's according to the Washington Post. He 1:10:34.439 --> 1:10:36.680 leaped at the dad, disarmed his old friend who he's 1:10:36.760 --> 1:10:40.760 known and whose son he helped track to California. The 1:10:40.800 --> 1:10:45.360 next day, Jeff Dawst died and the dad, Planchet, was 1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:48.479 charged with seconds agree murder. He got out the next 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:51.080 day on one hundred thousand dollars bond that was posted 1:10:51.080 --> 1:10:57.240 by a friend. His lawyer, Foster Foxy Sanders, committed him 1:10:57.240 --> 1:10:59.639 to a psych ward to portray him as a distraught 1:10:59.680 --> 1:11:03.280 father who believed his son had been sexually abused. Foxy 1:11:03.360 --> 1:11:06.720 believed that the shooting was a justifiable homicide and that 1:11:06.840 --> 1:11:11.920 Pluchet's deep depressed depression was caused by the belief that 1:11:12.640 --> 1:11:16.320 Jody was made into a sex object by the backwater 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:17.280 Bruce Lee. 1:11:17.400 --> 1:11:20.280 He idolized again from. 1:11:20.080 --> 1:11:25.320 The Washington Post like they are shady shady. March twenty eighth, 1:11:25.479 --> 1:11:29.200 nineteen eighty four, the district Attorney Aussie Brown chose not 1:11:29.320 --> 1:11:32.559 to seek an indictment, and it was from the same 1:11:32.960 --> 1:11:37.160 grand jury that indicted Ducet for the kidnapping. But a 1:11:37.200 --> 1:11:40.680 lot of the hate was because Ducet was gay, So 1:11:40.720 --> 1:11:43.320 it's kind of fucked up. Like a woman who was 1:11:43.439 --> 1:11:45.760 a bartender at the airport heard the shot and she's 1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:48.800 quoted in the Washington Post going, if the man was 1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:50.920 a homo, he got what he deserved. 1:11:51.640 --> 1:11:54.400 Oh my god, Like okay, Linda cool quote. 1:11:56.600 --> 1:11:59.600 When did the mom realize, like because the mom was 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:02.479 like in a relationship with him, Like when did she realize, 1:12:02.479 --> 1:12:05.640 like just after the kidnapped, like when he did she realize, like, 1:12:05.760 --> 1:12:07.800 oh fuck, this guy was just using me to get 1:12:07.840 --> 1:12:08.479 to my son. 1:12:09.360 --> 1:12:12.720 I really none of the stuff I went into went 1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:16.439 into like her kind of journey. Yeah, but she was 1:12:16.479 --> 1:12:19.559 suspicious like eventually that he didn't care about the other 1:12:19.640 --> 1:12:22.240 kids and it was all about Jodi, and yeah, yeah. 1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:24.479 Because it's like it reminds me a little bit of 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:27.400 kidnapped and plain Sight, which he covered on this pod 1:12:27.479 --> 1:12:30.800 and like, you know, just in that situation, the guy 1:12:30.840 --> 1:12:33.200 starts a relationship with the mom and the dad to 1:12:33.280 --> 1:12:35.040 try to get to the kid, But here it's just 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:35.439 the mom. 1:12:35.760 --> 1:12:38.519 August twenty ninth, nineteen eighty five, Fluche was given a 1:12:38.560 --> 1:12:42.320 suspended prison term and sentenced to five years probation. Judge 1:12:42.360 --> 1:12:46.800 Frank Siah of the State District Court also sentenced to 1:12:46.840 --> 1:12:50.200 undergo treatment for substance abuse and performed three hundred hours 1:12:50.200 --> 1:12:52.880 of community service work. But he was no threat to 1:12:52.920 --> 1:12:57.160 the community, according to ESPN, which covered this case. So 1:12:57.320 --> 1:12:59.439 this is the first time I think ESPN has been 1:12:59.840 --> 1:13:00.920 a source for us. 1:13:01.120 --> 1:13:04.320 But yeah. 1:13:04.400 --> 1:13:06.840 The New Zealand Herald did a piece on this case 1:13:06.880 --> 1:13:10.559 in twenty twenty one, stating that even though the public 1:13:10.640 --> 1:13:13.519 supported the dad's killing of the pedophile, his own son, Jodi, 1:13:13.600 --> 1:13:16.320 did not agree with his actions. He did not agree 1:13:16.320 --> 1:13:18.040 with those who think of his dad as a hero. 1:13:18.120 --> 1:13:20.880 And he's quoted in this New Zealand paper is I 1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:22.639 think for a lot of people who have not been 1:13:22.720 --> 1:13:26.280 satisfied by the American justice system, my dad stands as 1:13:26.280 --> 1:13:29.360 a symbol of justice. My dad did what everybody says 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:32.040 what they would do, yet only few have done it, 1:13:32.160 --> 1:13:34.599 plus he didn't go to jail. That said, I cannot 1:13:34.680 --> 1:13:38.559 and will not condone his behavior. I understand why he 1:13:38.600 --> 1:13:40.479 did what he did, but it is more important for 1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:42.799 a parent to be there to help support their child, 1:13:43.200 --> 1:13:46.559 not put themselves in a place to be prosecuted. He said, 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:48.680 I mean, he said, I didn't want him dead. I 1:13:48.760 --> 1:13:52.840 just wanted him to stop. Yeah, Jody now helps parents 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:56.760 help prevent situations like this, so you know, he goes, 1:13:56.800 --> 1:13:59.160 if you tell a kid that rape or assault or 1:13:59.160 --> 1:14:02.120 not being pure hurts a child's soul, they might not 1:14:02.200 --> 1:14:05.280 want to tell anybody that they were molested because they 1:14:05.280 --> 1:14:07.759 don't want their soul to die. And that's how he felt. 1:14:08.240 --> 1:14:10.639 And his dad was extreme and always said like I'd 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:13.160 kill anybody that touched my kids, and because of that, 1:14:13.280 --> 1:14:15.880 he didn't tell him because he knew that the dad 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:20.040 wasn't kidding. So that's just like a couple good advice 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:22.960 from like a kid that was molested that I don't 1:14:22.960 --> 1:14:25.000 know if we've really heard on this podcast. And then 1:14:25.080 --> 1:14:28.240 June the mom is quoted again an ESPN I can't 1:14:28.280 --> 1:14:31.240 say it with a straight face, in response to her 1:14:31.280 --> 1:14:33.840 son saying it's bad to take a life, she goes, 1:14:33.880 --> 1:14:36.439 are you kidding? Do you know how many kids weren't molested? 1:14:36.520 --> 1:14:41.519 Because he's no longer on this earth. So but yeah, 1:14:41.520 --> 1:14:43.160 the guy got caught, he would have gone to jail. 1:14:43.240 --> 1:14:46.200 So I don't know. Gary died in twenty fourteen from 1:14:46.200 --> 1:14:48.920 a stroke, but always maintained he would have killed the 1:14:48.920 --> 1:14:49.960 man who abused his son. 1:14:50.040 --> 1:14:50.320 Again. 1:14:50.880 --> 1:14:54.000 And I mean, the video and photos exist. This was life, 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:57.320 so if you want to watch it, you can't. Whoa crazy, 1:14:58.080 --> 1:15:02.519 Yeah that's crazy. I mean, like I like what Jody 1:15:02.600 --> 1:15:03.120 says there. 1:15:03.200 --> 1:15:05.120 It's like it is very It's like we were saying 1:15:05.120 --> 1:15:08.599 about the character in the episode. It's very male centered, 1:15:08.840 --> 1:15:11.479 and you're centering yourself to be like, I have to 1:15:11.520 --> 1:15:13.519 go avenge this thing that happened to my kid. It's 1:15:13.560 --> 1:15:17.000 like your kid probably just wants to be like comforted 1:15:17.040 --> 1:15:19.639 by their parent and not lose their parent to jail 1:15:19.840 --> 1:15:23.280 or you know, death or whatever. Like you could just 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:26.559 make them the center of this. You know, if your 1:15:26.640 --> 1:15:29.479 kid says, Dad, go kill that guy, that's a different story. 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:32.200 Maybe then you feel like you've got to do it. 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:36.040 Yeah, Okay, this will be rage and do thing for everyone, 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:40.680 So buckle up and you might know about this for 1:15:40.760 --> 1:15:41.240 New York. 1:15:41.120 --> 1:15:42.320 The Robert hadd In case. 1:15:43.200 --> 1:15:48.800 Yeah yeah, so New York City most prolific predator in 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:52.960 New York history, according to Forbes, again a source I 1:15:52.960 --> 1:15:54.320 don't think we've used before. 1:15:54.400 --> 1:15:56.880 This is really uh wild, Sobes. 1:15:57.160 --> 1:16:04.160 This happened at columb University. The guynecologists that work there's 1:16:04.200 --> 1:16:06.880 accused of sexually abusing more than two hundred patients over 1:16:06.880 --> 1:16:09.800 the course of decades. And that is an underestimated number. 1:16:09.800 --> 1:16:13.320 It's closer to five hundred. And then because on any 1:16:13.320 --> 1:16:15.960 given day, this motherfucker would see twenty five to forty patients. 1:16:17.479 --> 1:16:19.920 Several said he would see uh, he would make it 1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:24.439 seem like the exam was over and then like would 1:16:24.439 --> 1:16:26.760 turn around and just after the nurse would leave the 1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:28.800 room and set and would go, oh, I need to 1:16:28.840 --> 1:16:30.040 just check one more thing. 1:16:31.240 --> 1:16:33.240 And that's when the assaults would happen. 1:16:33.960 --> 1:16:36.960 So a former patient said, in that moment, her thought was, oh, no, 1:16:37.120 --> 1:16:40.240 something must be wrong. And so the fear, you know, 1:16:40.600 --> 1:16:42.840 you have fear for your baby. It's obgyn, you have 1:16:42.880 --> 1:16:46.040 fear for what's going on. You know, the doctor is like, wait, fuck, 1:16:46.120 --> 1:16:49.040 one more thing. So he really took advantage of vulnerable 1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:51.800 patients who are scared of so many things going right 1:16:51.880 --> 1:16:54.559 or wrong. And it's a new time. Like you it's 1:16:54.640 --> 1:16:57.439 your first time being pregnant. It's like crazier for your 1:16:57.479 --> 1:17:01.920 first time at a gaynocologist's office. Like we don't really 1:17:01.920 --> 1:17:04.400 talk about what's appropriate or not or what needs to happen. 1:17:04.479 --> 1:17:07.160 And you know, predators are really smart with who they pick. 1:17:07.960 --> 1:17:10.639 So one patient said, like her concern for her new 1:17:10.640 --> 1:17:13.840 baby twins led her to overlook Hadden's red flags, but 1:17:13.880 --> 1:17:16.880 he was groping her after she gave birth to the twins. 1:17:17.439 --> 1:17:20.960 In these moments, he would insert his tongue or unglum 1:17:21.040 --> 1:17:24.719 fingers into women. He would fondle breasts for several minutes 1:17:24.800 --> 1:17:27.400 under the guise of an exam, but it wasn't. And 1:17:27.439 --> 1:17:31.280 this guy is fucking sick, Like he he molested miners 1:17:31.320 --> 1:17:33.960 whom years earlier he had delivered as babies. 1:17:34.960 --> 1:17:37.080 Oh my god, so he. 1:17:37.160 --> 1:17:39.400 Delivered a girl and then when she was sixteen he 1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:40.160 assaulted her. 1:17:42.000 --> 1:17:45.040 Oh my god, that's horrific. Yeah, I can't. 1:17:45.280 --> 1:17:49.160 Yeah, my faces, I am. 1:17:50.240 --> 1:17:54.720 I've read about this. I just like, oh, yeah, it's 1:17:55.560 --> 1:17:56.160 it's wild. 1:17:56.200 --> 1:17:58.640 How many unpressed it in quotes, unpressed it at a 1:17:58.720 --> 1:18:04.440 most terrific wild caseys. We keep finding new like yeah, 1:18:04.600 --> 1:18:07.559 because I didn't know about this. So he was a 1:18:07.600 --> 1:18:11.479 practicing doctor from nineteen eighty seven to twenty twelve, when 1:18:11.920 --> 1:18:16.280 that's when accusations like really started going in twenty twelve. 1:18:16.280 --> 1:18:20.479 But like usual, like most cases, people had been making 1:18:20.520 --> 1:18:26.439 complaints for decades. So Columbia New Columbia aided this man, 1:18:26.880 --> 1:18:30.800 helped this man, and fucked with the investigation of this man. 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:33.640 Fuck Columbia University. Fuck you. 1:18:34.560 --> 1:18:37.760 So one victim i'll highlight from a pro public a 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:42.000 piece is Lorie Kenyak And she was thirty eight at 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:44.920 the time, and on June twenty ninth, twenty twelve, while 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:48.640 at her doctor's office, texted her boyfriend doctor hadn't just 1:18:48.720 --> 1:18:54.200 licked my vagina. I'm shaking and freaked out. So she'd 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:57.360 already suffered a miscarriage. She had recently undergone a spinal 1:18:57.400 --> 1:18:59.560 treatment and she was just very extra scared that it 1:18:59.560 --> 1:19:02.479 would inc used the risk of birth defects. So when 1:19:02.479 --> 1:19:05.800 she got with a doctor at such a distinguished institution, 1:19:06.040 --> 1:19:07.200 she was feeling grateful. 1:19:08.400 --> 1:19:09.439 There were a few. 1:19:09.240 --> 1:19:11.720 Appointments she dismissed because she was just focused. 1:19:11.320 --> 1:19:11.920 On her baby. 1:19:12.920 --> 1:19:16.200 She did hear him moan He was very forceful. One 1:19:16.240 --> 1:19:18.160 time he was so forceful with his fingers that lifted 1:19:18.160 --> 1:19:18.920 her from the table. 1:19:18.960 --> 1:19:21.240 She said, oh my god. 1:19:21.560 --> 1:19:25.120 And then six weeks after giving birth to her uh, 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:27.200 to her daughter, on a late Friday, like I said, 1:19:27.280 --> 1:19:31.720 June twelfth, she this is when this happened. So she 1:19:31.800 --> 1:19:34.679 froze because he looked her vagina and texted her boyfriend 1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:37.439 and then he rushed there and called the cops, and 1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:39.720 the cops came over to their house. So like he 1:19:39.720 --> 1:19:41.879 picked her up, they would go to the house. Haddn't 1:19:42.439 --> 1:19:45.200 then called the house and so the cops were at 1:19:45.240 --> 1:19:47.920 their apartment while they're listening to this voicemail from the doctor, 1:19:48.520 --> 1:19:51.880 and the voicemail was like, oh, misunderstanding. The cops are 1:19:51.920 --> 1:19:55.400 calling them off him like whatever, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, and 1:19:55.439 --> 1:19:58.400 the NYPD who's there, said fuck him, let's go get 1:19:58.439 --> 1:19:59.000 this pig. 1:19:59.760 --> 1:20:02.080 So oh, kind of cool. We don't really expect that 1:20:02.120 --> 1:20:02.799 from the NYPD. 1:20:03.760 --> 1:20:05.519 And you can listen to the full voicemail in pro 1:20:05.560 --> 1:20:08.360 publica if you want, and the resources, as always are 1:20:08.400 --> 1:20:12.080 in our show notes. When he was arrested, Columbia found 1:20:12.160 --> 1:20:12.799 him a lawyer. 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:15.200 Oh my god. 1:20:15.760 --> 1:20:18.639 He was arrested that night, but was released on a Monday, 1:20:18.680 --> 1:20:20.799 so that was a Friday. He was released on Monday. 1:20:20.840 --> 1:20:25.080 He received a letter from Columbia handwritten that just said, hey, 1:20:25.200 --> 1:20:28.360 if you are with a chaperone in the room with patients, 1:20:28.400 --> 1:20:32.360 you're all good and you can resume clinical activities. So 1:20:32.439 --> 1:20:35.280 the document was signed by his immediate supervisor and he 1:20:35.439 --> 1:20:39.280 succeed The president of the New York Presbyterian, which is 1:20:39.280 --> 1:20:42.040 a hospital. The Columbia Affiliated Hospital System, where he was 1:20:42.040 --> 1:20:45.400 an attending doctor, also cc to the email. The dean 1:20:45.439 --> 1:20:47.760 of Columbia's medical school, where he was a member of 1:20:47.760 --> 1:20:50.360 the faculty back on work on Tuesday. 1:20:51.320 --> 1:20:52.559 They let him practice for. 1:20:52.560 --> 1:20:55.840 Five more weeks, during which eight patients said they were 1:20:55.840 --> 1:20:56.720 assaulted by him. 1:20:58.760 --> 1:20:59.599 Oh my god. 1:21:01.160 --> 1:21:03.760 One of the patients, on his first day back, wrote 1:21:03.760 --> 1:21:08.880 a victim impact statement pro publica that said Robert Hadden 1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:13.120 was actually permitted to return to his medical office and 1:21:13.200 --> 1:21:17.200 sexually assault me just four days after being arrested for 1:21:17.360 --> 1:21:20.400 licking up patience genitals. 1:21:21.000 --> 1:21:22.040 Oh my god. 1:21:23.200 --> 1:21:26.760 Columbia during this time failed to hand over evidence in 1:21:26.800 --> 1:21:31.360 its possession. Despite subpenis. The university did not tell the 1:21:31.479 --> 1:21:33.639 DA when more patients came forward. 1:21:34.240 --> 1:21:35.640 Finally, five weeks. 1:21:35.360 --> 1:21:38.719 After this initial arrest, they suspended him because he would 1:21:38.720 --> 1:21:42.680 not cooperate with the internal investigation. Then he took a 1:21:42.760 --> 1:21:44.880 leave of absence in September, and at the end of 1:21:44.920 --> 1:21:47.280 the year the university didn't renew his appointment, so he 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:52.120 retired and got to just live with his wife in Jersey, Okay. Meanwhile, 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:56.360 the Manhattan DA's opened an investigation into this creek. Lauren 1:21:56.400 --> 1:21:59.760 Mildendorff as a prosecutor grown up in a family of 1:22:01.040 --> 1:22:03.760 and she volunteered to take the case, but it was 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:07.840 eventually shelved in twenty thirteen, and Kean Yak was like, fuck, 1:22:07.960 --> 1:22:10.000 let's just do a civil suit. I hate this guy. 1:22:10.080 --> 1:22:13.479 He shouldn't be practicing medicine. And in April twenty thirteen, 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:17.160 the New York Daily News published a short item on 1:22:17.200 --> 1:22:20.639 the lawsuit, and then in July a bigger story appeared 1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:23.519 with a large photo of him and the headline that said, 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:29.599 Guyino is Sickoh. Because of this article, women started coming forward. 1:22:30.280 --> 1:22:34.679 By June twenty fourteenth, Millendorff had gathered enough to indict. 1:22:35.360 --> 1:22:38.360 He was charged with five felonies and formist demeanors involving 1:22:38.400 --> 1:22:41.719 six women for almost two years she built her case. 1:22:42.320 --> 1:22:45.880 He was convicted of multiple sexual assault charges in twenty sixteen, 1:22:46.600 --> 1:22:50.320 but did not serve jail time. He pled guilty in 1:22:50.360 --> 1:22:53.360 twenty sixteen to two New York State charges of criminal 1:22:53.479 --> 1:22:56.360 sex act in the third degree and forcible touching. Not 1:22:56.479 --> 1:22:59.679 one day in jail because Cyrus Vance Junior, the DA 1:22:59.720 --> 1:23:02.960 at the time time, said if Columbia had fully cooperated 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:05.599 and might have made a difference in his office's decision 1:23:05.680 --> 1:23:08.400 to accept a plea. But this motherfucker was part of 1:23:08.400 --> 1:23:11.080 the problem too. It's even sicker than that. So just 1:23:11.160 --> 1:23:14.320 like the in SVU Sexual not our department when we 1:23:14.360 --> 1:23:16.600 watched the show, But like it's usually an issue with 1:23:16.680 --> 1:23:20.000 the bosses and the McGraths, and like the friend Thompson's 1:23:20.040 --> 1:23:23.439 in the SVU universe, where they only want to take 1:23:23.479 --> 1:23:25.839 sex crimes that they could win. You know, it's about winning, 1:23:25.880 --> 1:23:28.600 and they don't want to take cases to court they 1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:31.439 can't win, so they didn't. They just wanted to put 1:23:31.479 --> 1:23:35.880 this case to bed. So Hadden's attorney, this guy Kershner, 1:23:36.000 --> 1:23:39.400 came to the DA's office February twenty sixteen, and she 1:23:39.520 --> 1:23:42.479 had worked at this office, so she had connects. She 1:23:42.640 --> 1:23:45.519 was close to Vance and she asked to like, she 1:23:45.640 --> 1:23:48.400 was so close to the DA she asked him. 1:23:48.320 --> 1:23:52.160 To preside over her wedding. Oh my god. So they 1:23:52.200 --> 1:23:54.800 had a meeting. That's when the deal was agreed to. 1:23:55.320 --> 1:23:58.680 Millendorf was not at the meeting and was told to 1:23:58.720 --> 1:24:02.320 tell the victims that this was a win and that 1:24:02.840 --> 1:24:06.880 she was she's devastated. More than two hundred of his 1:24:07.000 --> 1:24:10.880 former patient than end up settling lawsuits against Columbia University, 1:24:11.360 --> 1:24:14.200 reaching agreements more than two hundred and thirty million dollars, 1:24:14.240 --> 1:24:19.080 and the exact figures ranged between sources. But oh yeah, 1:24:19.120 --> 1:24:22.080 a lot of hundreds of millions of dollars. Columbia, though 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:25.120 admitted no fault and placing the blame solely on the doctor, 1:24:25.600 --> 1:24:28.360 even though their own records show that women repeatedly trying 1:24:28.400 --> 1:24:31.080 to warn Columbia doctors and staff about had him. They 1:24:31.200 --> 1:24:35.240 had concerns in writing, and they allowed him to continue practicing. 1:24:35.840 --> 1:24:40.639 Their interviews in pro Pluboka wonders forgot her stethoscope, stepped back, 1:24:40.760 --> 1:24:44.320 saw something fucked that sent in quote shock waves all 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:46.840 over her body. But she didn't say anything because she 1:24:46.840 --> 1:24:49.080 didn't think her word had any weight against a doctor, 1:24:49.200 --> 1:24:51.559 and she was right. A nurse for work there from 1:24:51.640 --> 1:24:55.000 nineteen ninety later testified she saw hat and move his 1:24:55.120 --> 1:24:59.160 fingers sexually around the lady of a woman in labor every. 1:24:58.880 --> 1:25:00.639 Time he checked for surve dilation. 1:25:01.200 --> 1:25:03.640 But on the stand, she said, historically there's always been 1:25:03.680 --> 1:25:06.360 a hierarchy between physicians and nurses, and she felt like 1:25:06.400 --> 1:25:07.360 she didn't have a voice. 1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:10.040 Yeah, this is like what happened with doctor death, Like 1:25:10.120 --> 1:25:13.759 if you like that, Like eventually I think a nurse 1:25:13.800 --> 1:25:16.080 did try to bring him down, but like no one 1:25:16.120 --> 1:25:19.599 listened to her forever. She filed so many complaints, like 1:25:19.640 --> 1:25:20.839 this guy's fucking killing. 1:25:20.640 --> 1:25:22.599 People, and I forgot we did a whole other one 1:25:22.640 --> 1:25:27.120 where it was like a pedophile doctor for decades, like Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, 1:25:27.160 --> 1:25:30.479 in one of these East coast states. Yeah, yeah, and 1:25:30.840 --> 1:25:34.400 fuck the school, obviously, Columbia administrators, nurses, other doctors worked there. 1:25:34.439 --> 1:25:38.080 They covered up this fucking abuse. Anthony Dpatrow, the attorney 1:25:38.320 --> 1:25:41.800 representing the victims in the civil suit, claimed that the 1:25:41.960 --> 1:25:45.280 university staff knew about the allegations against Haddan as early 1:25:45.320 --> 1:25:48.720 as nineteen ninety four. A complaint was sent to the 1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:52.879 acting chair of obstetrics and guy in acology department claimed 1:25:52.920 --> 1:25:56.360 that he was abusing patients. They chose to conceal his 1:25:56.520 --> 1:26:01.120 crimes and gaslight his patients, which enabled this man's behavior 1:26:01.920 --> 1:26:04.160 and so a lot of the payouts by the school. 1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:06.280 But this dude got no jail time and it's not 1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:08.920 like his personal bankup. 1:26:09.040 --> 1:26:11.320 Why would they do. I don't get it. 1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:15.320 And he was in the age that he would ever 1:26:15.400 --> 1:26:18.280 retired anyways, he was like in his sixties, so he 1:26:18.360 --> 1:26:21.360 was classified as the lowest level of sex offender status 1:26:21.400 --> 1:26:25.000 after this, like Sivance deal, he decided to do, which 1:26:25.080 --> 1:26:27.439 means he was not listed in New York States online 1:26:27.479 --> 1:26:31.920 Sexual offender registry either. So he did agree to for 1:26:32.040 --> 1:26:35.400 pa his medical license, but that means prosecutors dropped all 1:26:35.439 --> 1:26:38.200 other charges and agreed not to pursuit cases related to 1:26:38.280 --> 1:26:42.400 other alleged victims. In twenty twenty, this case got kicked 1:26:42.439 --> 1:26:46.160 back up when Evelyn Yang, whose husband Andrew Yang was 1:26:46.240 --> 1:26:49.760 running for president, mentioned this case in an interview and 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:52.200 being abused by him, and she was one of the 1:26:52.240 --> 1:26:54.800 people that came forward for the first time around case 1:26:54.840 --> 1:26:55.920 that went nowhere. 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.960 But she was a Jane Doe who but because of her. 1:26:59.200 --> 1:27:04.600 Forty women came forward right away during this It was 1:27:04.640 --> 1:27:06.760 really fucked up. She was a Jane Doe, and they 1:27:06.800 --> 1:27:09.160 pushed and they tried to make her come forward. She 1:27:09.280 --> 1:27:12.000 came forward about this case, and then all they fucked up. 1:27:12.000 --> 1:27:13.040 All these women came forward. 1:27:13.479 --> 1:27:17.040 Weeks after that, Manhattan District Attorney's office announced and assigned 1:27:17.080 --> 1:27:19.960 prosecutors to open this case back up. During this trial, 1:27:20.479 --> 1:27:24.519 there was credible evidence relating to forty victims. Prosecutors asked 1:27:24.560 --> 1:27:27.240 for twenty five years and the defense argued. 1:27:26.880 --> 1:27:29.080 For three years. Are you kidding? 1:27:29.160 --> 1:27:32.080 The case was based around four women though that he 1:27:32.320 --> 1:27:35.040 enticed and induced the four women to travel to New 1:27:35.120 --> 1:27:37.720 York is in the New York based office where he 1:27:37.800 --> 1:27:40.800 sexually abused them. So because of the moving of state 1:27:40.840 --> 1:27:44.519 lines he had he had patients come from Pennsylvania and 1:27:44.560 --> 1:27:49.960 stuff that adds to federal charges. So his defense claimed 1:27:50.000 --> 1:27:52.880 that he was innocent and that they just fought over 1:27:52.920 --> 1:27:55.559 the fact that prosecution could not prove that the women 1:27:55.600 --> 1:27:58.559 were lured across state lines for their abuse, but that 1:27:58.640 --> 1:28:02.040 they chose to make appointments with him. But yeah, Dedra 1:28:02.200 --> 1:28:06.400 von Durnham in quotes for to CBS News, this is 1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:10.880 his lawyer wrote, cancel him, condemn him, do not convict 1:28:10.960 --> 1:28:12.920 him of a crime he did not commit. And she 1:28:13.000 --> 1:28:15.920 said this during the trial, like okay, Ddre, you're a bitch. 1:28:16.400 --> 1:28:19.280 Her other argument was end quote, he never intended to 1:28:19.320 --> 1:28:21.600 abuse his victims. Rather, it was a spur of the 1:28:21.640 --> 1:28:24.400 moment that was uh tavy. 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:26.400 So there's no intent, okay, But I think if you 1:28:26.439 --> 1:28:28.759 do it two hundred times, there's intent there, babe. 1:28:29.080 --> 1:28:32.040 That's not spur of the moment. That's fuck. This is 1:28:32.120 --> 1:28:32.599 so fun. 1:28:32.720 --> 1:28:38.000 Yeah, kannak she's who kicked this off in twenty twelve 1:28:38.439 --> 1:28:42.360 and her and her boyfriend called the police January twenty 1:28:42.400 --> 1:28:44.519 twenty three. She sat in the witness box and when 1:28:44.560 --> 1:28:47.679 she first went to police, her daughter was six weeks old. 1:28:48.040 --> 1:28:51.960 Now she's ten. She's ten at this time. That's how 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:55.960 long this fucking took for this. She's Bastepoliet justice. There 1:28:56.000 --> 1:28:58.120 was a two week trial and after being found guilty, 1:28:58.120 --> 1:29:01.200 they sent him home to be with his wife and son, 1:29:01.320 --> 1:29:04.600 and one victim from the back stood up, very s 1:29:04.640 --> 1:29:07.440 of you and said, oh, so he's a sexual abuser, 1:29:07.479 --> 1:29:11.000 but we're letting him go home. So then one week 1:29:11.120 --> 1:29:13.959 later they overturned that, and he was ordered to be detained. 1:29:14.520 --> 1:29:18.000 US marshals approached him and arrested his ass His first 1:29:18.080 --> 1:29:22.160 night behind bars, ever, was February first, So then finally 1:29:22.360 --> 1:29:26.240 on July twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, he was sentenced 1:29:26.240 --> 1:29:27.920 to twenty years in federal prison. 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:30.479 The judge in this I know, God. 1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:33.400 The judge in the case, Richard Berman, said, this is 1:29:33.439 --> 1:29:36.599 a horrific case and like no other. But I'm sorry 1:29:36.720 --> 1:29:39.160 doing this podcast. It's like a lot of others. We 1:29:39.240 --> 1:29:42.400 need to stop acting shocked. Stop acting shocked every time 1:29:42.439 --> 1:29:46.120 this happens. Normal ask people commit these crimes all the time. 1:29:47.600 --> 1:29:53.320 Stop it unprecedented. No, it's not. Stop because it makes victims. 1:29:53.720 --> 1:29:56.280 It makes it scarier to come forward when you act 1:29:56.360 --> 1:30:00.280 like it's not happening all the time, because it fucking is. Yeah, 1:30:00.280 --> 1:30:04.799 the staff knew. I mean, fuck Columbia, like I can't. 1:30:05.080 --> 1:30:07.000 You know, my brother went to medical school there and 1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:10.400 my mother went to My mother did nursing se No. 1:30:10.400 --> 1:30:12.800 It's known as a good school. I mean that's the thing. 1:30:12.800 --> 1:30:14.840 A lot of these patients were like thrilled to be 1:30:15.040 --> 1:30:17.960 in such an amazing institution. 1:30:18.600 --> 1:30:20.799 Yeah, he was sixty six at the time of sentence. 1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:23.000 And the judge said that once he gets out, he 1:30:23.040 --> 1:30:26.080 will face the lifetime of supervision after his release as well, 1:30:26.120 --> 1:30:28.400 but hopefully he dies in prison on his last day 1:30:29.280 --> 1:30:32.280 after being given for sentences of the twenty years, but 1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:36.000 they're going to be served concurrently, he said, between sobs 1:30:36.000 --> 1:30:39.280 to the judge, hold your tears, bitch, But he says, 1:30:39.400 --> 1:30:42.160 I'm very sorry for all the pain I have caused. 1:30:42.400 --> 1:30:44.920 Fuck you. That's from pro public up. 1:30:45.280 --> 1:30:47.800 And I just want to say personally, thank God for 1:30:47.840 --> 1:30:50.639 the bravery of the victims that came forward, and because 1:30:50.680 --> 1:30:53.920 of them they were able to get rid of this guy. 1:30:54.439 --> 1:30:56.479 You know, the school did not care about getting rid 1:30:56.520 --> 1:30:59.880 of the serial sexual predator, and the institution was unable 1:30:59.920 --> 1:31:02.320 to do so. And it's because of these fucking patients 1:31:03.240 --> 1:31:06.000 and because of these brave people that he was able 1:31:06.040 --> 1:31:07.160 to He's. 1:31:07.040 --> 1:31:09.080 I mean, they acted the same way as the Catholic 1:31:09.160 --> 1:31:12.280 Church does or anybody that just like moves somebody around 1:31:12.400 --> 1:31:13.400 or denies. 1:31:13.000 --> 1:31:15.799 It or make it strike a religion. These are conked 1:31:15.800 --> 1:31:18.160 out people that are like the Lord, what is this. 1:31:18.520 --> 1:31:22.360 I know, with an institution of higher education, you're like, 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:23.160 what the fuck? 1:31:23.360 --> 1:31:26.320 Like that's horrific, because if your whole thing is it's 1:31:26.360 --> 1:31:28.840 not on us. We're not taking responsibility. It's all him. 1:31:29.160 --> 1:31:31.160 Then why cover up for him? If he has nothing 1:31:31.200 --> 1:31:36.280 to do with institution, You're like, yeah, it's bogus. He 1:31:36.400 --> 1:31:39.760 still denies all allegations and charges beyond the two that 1:31:39.800 --> 1:31:43.600 he pled guilty for, and even with the school's apologies, 1:31:43.760 --> 1:31:46.920 Evel and Yang had had this to say some Forbes, 1:31:47.479 --> 1:31:51.320 there's no ownership of the university's past and ongoing failures. 1:31:51.720 --> 1:31:54.599 The apology comes from a place of self preservation and 1:31:54.640 --> 1:31:58.320 does not acknowledge that Colombia enabled and protected Hadden's abuse. 1:32:00.080 --> 1:32:02.120 Well actually, at one point embarks on a campaign to 1:32:02.240 --> 1:32:04.960 foreseeing I mentioned this earlier to reveal her identity when 1:32:05.000 --> 1:32:08.280 she first came forward. Pro Publica says that they were 1:32:08.280 --> 1:32:12.800 deeply involved in containing, deflecting, and distancing itself from the 1:32:12.840 --> 1:32:16.439 scandal at every step. Pro Publica also is like, there 1:32:16.479 --> 1:32:19.559 isn't even anything special about this guy that would make 1:32:19.600 --> 1:32:22.640 Columbia want to protect him. It's very confusing. He was 1:32:22.720 --> 1:32:24.840 not a prompt, he was not prominent with a bunch 1:32:24.880 --> 1:32:28.680 of elite clients. That wasn't him. He wasn't attracting millions 1:32:28.680 --> 1:32:32.160 in research dollars or in demands on the academic late 1:32:32.320 --> 1:32:36.280 lecture circuit. He was just one of dozens of doctors, 1:32:37.040 --> 1:32:41.519 outwardly unremarkable. And that's what we see, and that's what 1:32:41.960 --> 1:32:45.360 that's what this past selection represents so much, and that's 1:32:45.360 --> 1:32:48.639 why it's so heartbreaking to be a woman, like, hundreds 1:32:48.680 --> 1:32:52.280 of women were fucking molested by this guy, unremarkable, one 1:32:52.320 --> 1:32:54.519 of a dozen doctors. No one gives a shit, No 1:32:54.560 --> 1:32:57.479 one asked him to speak, he didn't do research, he 1:32:57.560 --> 1:33:00.559 wasn't special. Celebrities didn't go to it, nothing, But they 1:33:00.600 --> 1:33:06.040 were willing to protect this fucking creep fell In rapist monster, 1:33:06.560 --> 1:33:09.120 let him go home to his wife after being found guilty, 1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:13.080 not serve jail time. So at the expense of hundreds 1:33:13.120 --> 1:33:15.880 of women, and that is what the selection is to, 1:33:16.000 --> 1:33:21.000 at the expense of minority communities like immigrants that are here, 1:33:21.160 --> 1:33:25.840 women like all like upstanding fucking citizens no matter what 1:33:25.880 --> 1:33:28.919 we do, a fucking fellon rapist as president. 1:33:29.840 --> 1:33:33.120 Yeah, and and this guy, this guy hadn't seems like 1:33:33.160 --> 1:33:36.320 he probably went into this profession on purpose. 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:38.720 I would never go to a man. I would never 1:33:38.720 --> 1:33:41.240 go to a man. 1:33:39.920 --> 1:33:40.360 I never. 1:33:43.560 --> 1:33:45.720 Gone to a man. I would never I've never gone 1:33:45.760 --> 1:33:48.439 to a man fucking freak in my life. I just 1:33:48.439 --> 1:33:53.439 wouldn't feel comfortable with it. But you know, I don't know. 1:33:54.880 --> 1:33:57.600 I'm sure people are gonna write this and go, my 1:33:57.800 --> 1:33:59.639 dad's are going to collegists and he's. 1:34:00.040 --> 1:34:01.439 I'm sure he's a fucking creep. 1:34:02.840 --> 1:34:05.639 All right, I'm almost done, so yeah, But it's just 1:34:05.720 --> 1:34:08.200 it's all the same. It's just like we protect gross 1:34:08.240 --> 1:34:11.439 ass men all the time and push them up and 1:34:11.520 --> 1:34:14.519 let them do whatever, and women are not listened to, 1:34:14.720 --> 1:34:22.240 trusted like I can't imagine. And in sick rapist statistics 1:34:22.680 --> 1:34:25.240 that the number of survivors in this case is about 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:28.040 equal to those of Larry Nasser, the you know, the 1:34:28.080 --> 1:34:31.559 fucking gymnast doctor at Michigan State University, so the numbers 1:34:31.560 --> 1:34:35.000 are very similar. Hadn't all together had an abuse at 1:34:35.040 --> 1:34:36.960 least two hundred and forty five and then additional three 1:34:37.000 --> 1:34:41.519 hundred and one victims filed for the final lawsuit and 1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:44.320 the pro problem and the pro public article links in 1:34:44.360 --> 1:34:47.599 the show notes had dozens of people who I mean, 1:34:47.720 --> 1:34:49.559 I would have been talking for another fuck an hour 1:34:49.600 --> 1:34:52.479 and a half, like dozens of people who called. There 1:34:52.640 --> 1:34:57.080 is so much personal stuff in this piece, and they 1:34:57.120 --> 1:35:00.519 really dug deep and interviewed so many victims. Yeah, dozens 1:35:00.560 --> 1:35:05.320 of people who called made complaints, told receptionists, told referring doctors, 1:35:05.479 --> 1:35:08.479 social workers at the hospital were told about this man. 1:35:09.160 --> 1:35:11.280 So many people came forward. 1:35:11.400 --> 1:35:14.400 So when we tell victims, come forward, come forward, it's 1:35:14.439 --> 1:35:17.559 not about them coming forward. It's about training and getting 1:35:17.600 --> 1:35:20.120 into people's heads what to do when someone comes forward. 1:35:20.680 --> 1:35:23.080 And we're like pushing these victims to do these brave, 1:35:23.160 --> 1:35:24.599 huge things and come forward. 1:35:25.040 --> 1:35:27.679 And then everyone failed them. 1:35:27.720 --> 1:35:31.920 Everyone and colleges and universities all the time are like 1:35:32.080 --> 1:35:34.280 fucking trying to hide their own bottom line. You know 1:35:34.360 --> 1:35:37.559 what's crazy too, is like that's so interesting what you're 1:35:37.560 --> 1:35:40.000 saying about him. This guy was like not special. It's 1:35:40.040 --> 1:35:44.200 like in the episode that's almost so unbelievable that they 1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:47.320 try to make him more special in the episode. Like 1:35:47.360 --> 1:35:49.960 in the episode, he's a dentist, and he's not only 1:35:50.040 --> 1:35:53.320 a dentist, but he's builds all these churches or builds 1:35:53.360 --> 1:35:55.800 builds dental practices in third world countries, and he's big 1:35:55.800 --> 1:35:57.799 on the charity circuit and he works with the NYPD. 1:35:58.160 --> 1:36:00.000 Like they had to make him special in the episode 1:36:00.000 --> 1:36:02.640 because it's more believable why there would be cover up 1:36:02.640 --> 1:36:05.439 for him, you know, like, why are you covering up 1:36:05.439 --> 1:36:09.040 for this mediocre fucking dude? I guess Columbia. Do you 1:36:09.120 --> 1:36:14.880 think that they figure, well, if he's if it's not true, 1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:18.519 and they if it's if he's innocent, we're not going 1:36:18.600 --> 1:36:20.960 to pay out all this money or whatever. And even 1:36:21.000 --> 1:36:22.760 if he did do it, but they can't prove it, 1:36:22.760 --> 1:36:23.960 then we don't have to pay out the money. Like, 1:36:23.960 --> 1:36:25.960 are they like literally trying to hide the money, because 1:36:26.160 --> 1:36:28.000 if they had just given the cops what they wanted, 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:31.640 that these people probably still would have sued Columbia. So 1:36:31.680 --> 1:36:34.200 I'm just wondering what Columbia is, like, what are they 1:36:34.320 --> 1:36:36.160 why would they impede this investigation? 1:36:36.600 --> 1:36:38.600 I mean, but how many episodes the best view have 1:36:38.680 --> 1:36:42.200 we seen where it's like very confusing where they would 1:36:42.320 --> 1:36:45.920 rather just like protect the frat or protect whatever dude. Yeah, 1:36:45.960 --> 1:36:48.320 And I think it's just what is it like the 1:36:48.560 --> 1:36:52.200 unconscious bias of it all too where we're like trained 1:36:52.240 --> 1:36:54.920 to be like are you sure she wasn't trying? I 1:36:54.960 --> 1:36:58.080 don't know, did he realize I don't there was a 1:36:58.160 --> 1:37:00.760 nurse there. He wouldn't have fingered her, I don't know, 1:37:00.840 --> 1:37:02.720 I have no idea. No, but like a lot of 1:37:02.760 --> 1:37:05.040 the women in this piece that I was reading, like 1:37:05.160 --> 1:37:07.800 told the receptionist or like one woman used to work there, laughs, 1:37:07.840 --> 1:37:09.840 came back to him, went to and then all the 1:37:09.840 --> 1:37:12.960 receptionists were like, yeah, we know he's a creep They 1:37:13.000 --> 1:37:15.040 all knew, Like they talked openly about what a creepy 1:37:15.200 --> 1:37:19.040 was at the office. The receptionist knowingly told women that 1:37:19.120 --> 1:37:22.280 complained like, oh yeah, sorry about that, don't come back 1:37:22.320 --> 1:37:24.720 to him. Other people like nurses would tell women like, 1:37:24.760 --> 1:37:27.120 don't come back Jesus Christ. 1:37:28.280 --> 1:37:31.040 Yeah, I just I don't know. I'm lady all the 1:37:31.040 --> 1:37:34.680 way when it comes to that. But we've got a 1:37:34.680 --> 1:37:40.719 great interview coming up too. Hopefully you're so defeated down, 1:37:43.000 --> 1:37:54.160 We'll be right back. Okay today's guest, Wow, what again? 1:37:54.320 --> 1:37:56.360 I was so excited to talk to him. He is 1:37:56.400 --> 1:38:00.280 a prolific character actor who was most recently on the 1:38:00.280 --> 1:38:03.439 Netflix show Wednesday Two Wednesday Actors in a Row. On 1:38:03.479 --> 1:38:07.960 the pod, he played Sheriff Donovan Galpin. He's also on 1:38:08.200 --> 1:38:11.479 mostly shows I've watched, Bloodline, Sons of Anarchy as well 1:38:11.520 --> 1:38:14.719 as Southland. You know him today as the manipulated father 1:38:15.280 --> 1:38:19.559 Luke Davis. Please enjoy our conversation with the very talented 1:38:19.600 --> 1:38:20.480 Jamie McShane. 1:38:21.080 --> 1:38:22.400 Well, you won't believe it. 1:38:22.640 --> 1:38:27.880 We the interview we did before you was Ricky Lindholme, No, kiddy, 1:38:28.080 --> 1:38:30.200 I know you can't believe it. 1:38:29.840 --> 1:38:30.439 Was that today. 1:38:30.760 --> 1:38:34.439 Yeah, just an hour or so ago. Yeah, and she 1:38:34.520 --> 1:38:36.720 loves you. We were She was saying you're the best, 1:38:36.800 --> 1:38:37.799 and I was like, oh. 1:38:37.680 --> 1:38:38.840 My god, she's better. 1:38:39.080 --> 1:38:41.439 Yeah. 1:38:41.200 --> 1:38:42.840 Yeah, we heard about Romania. 1:38:43.840 --> 1:38:47.400 Oh good lord. Yeah, it was. 1:38:47.479 --> 1:38:50.000 It was neat because it was pretty much Ricky and 1:38:50.160 --> 1:38:53.160 Hunter and I kind of had each other's backs. And 1:38:53.200 --> 1:38:56.960 then and Tommy Tomy l Jenkins when he was there. 1:38:57.000 --> 1:38:59.439 But it was yeah, Ricky and I got very close 1:39:00.120 --> 1:39:00.840 Hunter as well. 1:39:01.560 --> 1:39:03.479 I mean, you've been working for so long, so many 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:04.000 cool things. 1:39:04.000 --> 1:39:07.040 It was the Romania, the wildest location or have you 1:39:07.160 --> 1:39:09.360 shot in more? 1:39:09.760 --> 1:39:12.639 Yeah, Romania was pretty well, it's the longest I've ever 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:16.400 been anywhere, and it's the farthest away pretty much when 1:39:16.400 --> 1:39:19.160 you look at the globe, you know, as far from 1:39:19.280 --> 1:39:20.559 Los Angeles as you can get. 1:39:21.080 --> 1:39:21.880 I did shoot. 1:39:21.960 --> 1:39:25.400 I did a little independent film in twenty seventeen called 1:39:25.400 --> 1:39:27.800 Busman's Holiday, and we literally had a crew of like, 1:39:28.760 --> 1:39:30.960 there were just four of us total, me included, so 1:39:31.000 --> 1:39:33.920 there was a crew of two guys plus the my 1:39:34.000 --> 1:39:38.320 friend who wrote, directed, produced, did every department essentially hair 1:39:38.360 --> 1:39:40.480 and makeup, wardrobe. 1:39:41.880 --> 1:39:42.759 But we went. 1:39:42.760 --> 1:39:46.160 Around the world in the month of May, and we 1:39:46.200 --> 1:39:49.360 were in each place for like a week, couple of days, 1:39:49.840 --> 1:39:50.759 I guess a couple of days. 1:39:51.000 --> 1:39:51.400 But it was. 1:39:51.360 --> 1:39:57.840 Ireland, Norway, Italy, Mumbai, India, Sansabar, Africa, and then Sydney, 1:39:57.880 --> 1:39:58.960 Australia and a little north. 1:39:59.040 --> 1:40:01.680 So Zanzibar was prett Yeah. 1:40:01.760 --> 1:40:03.040 Well you did that all in a month. 1:40:03.680 --> 1:40:08.160 Yeah, all in the month of May in twenty seventeen. Wow, 1:40:08.160 --> 1:40:09.000 it was pretty wild. 1:40:09.200 --> 1:40:12.639 Yeah, that is it kind of sounds like an SVU. 1:40:12.880 --> 1:40:15.680 The log line, a disillusioned cop is forced out of 1:40:15.680 --> 1:40:18.400 retirement to find a troubled teenage girl who vanished on 1:40:18.439 --> 1:40:19.599 a trip across the world. 1:40:20.080 --> 1:40:21.479 Sounds maybe it was this for you and I got 1:40:21.560 --> 1:40:22.080 very confused. 1:40:22.120 --> 1:40:26.400 Could be an SVU. Yeah, Sbu has never gone to Zanzibar, 1:40:28.120 --> 1:40:28.559 but they. 1:40:28.439 --> 1:40:32.840 Have gone to Romania. They have isn't that where he goes? 1:40:32.960 --> 1:40:35.000 They go to frog Prog. 1:40:35.479 --> 1:40:38.040 Yes, they go to frog Zeck Republic. 1:40:38.160 --> 1:40:39.519 Yeah, pretty pretty close. 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:43.519 Yeah, I mean this episode was hard to watch. We've 1:40:43.720 --> 1:40:45.640 we've wanted to talk to you, we wanted to do 1:40:45.720 --> 1:40:48.040 this episode, but we were kind of avoiding it. 1:40:48.040 --> 1:40:49.160 It's pretty heartbreaking. 1:40:49.640 --> 1:40:51.240 Yeah, decaying reality was tough. 1:40:51.479 --> 1:40:55.679 Yeah, with the boy and then him die, it really 1:40:55.800 --> 1:40:58.040 is a tough episode. 1:40:58.320 --> 1:40:59.880 Yeah. The writing on this. 1:41:01.479 --> 1:41:05.120 Is really good, Like they bring up such topical points 1:41:05.400 --> 1:41:09.160 and really kind of somehow fleshed them out within the 1:41:09.160 --> 1:41:13.679 confines of their time period, and it's just been very interesting. 1:41:14.400 --> 1:41:16.000 Yeah, no, it was. 1:41:16.160 --> 1:41:19.759 I thought it was like also very sub like you 1:41:19.800 --> 1:41:22.720 portrayed it like in a great way, but it was 1:41:23.120 --> 1:41:27.439 very subtle about how like this man felt like he 1:41:27.680 --> 1:41:31.280 had to do like be a vigilante and like defend 1:41:31.280 --> 1:41:33.519 his daughter and go after the truth, the truth and 1:41:33.560 --> 1:41:36.639 everything when and didn't know the facts. 1:41:36.720 --> 1:41:39.120 And you know, it's like it's. 1:41:39.000 --> 1:41:42.120 Uh, you could you sympathize a lot with this character 1:41:42.760 --> 1:41:45.880 because you made him really like emotionally accessible. I feel like, 1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:48.160 but you're kind of like, dude, if you had just 1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:50.320 let the cops do their job for like one more day, 1:41:50.360 --> 1:41:52.519 we wouldn't have we would have, you know, you. 1:41:52.800 --> 1:41:55.479 I know, I am I am a I am a 1:41:55.560 --> 1:42:01.960 parent and that sort of I don't know, being just 1:42:02.040 --> 1:42:04.760 that sort of anger and that like someone hurt my kids, 1:42:04.760 --> 1:42:07.200 someone did something like you freaking kidd me, And you 1:42:07.200 --> 1:42:09.240 guys aren't doing anything about it right this second? 1:42:10.160 --> 1:42:11.880 Are you? And we know who it is? 1:42:12.160 --> 1:42:13.680 Yeah, what do you mean? 1:42:13.680 --> 1:42:16.360 No one's doing anything. It's kind of that response. 1:42:16.640 --> 1:42:19.760 And your character is being manipulated by this uncle too, 1:42:20.040 --> 1:42:22.960 Like who knows if it was a normal person talked 1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:25.320 you down for a day. You know he wanted just 1:42:25.360 --> 1:42:28.120 like willing to ruin your fucking life too, bastard. 1:42:30.600 --> 1:42:33.640 So like, what I think was so crazy is like 1:42:33.800 --> 1:42:36.519 you you've only you've done two episodes of s you 1:42:36.520 --> 1:42:38.760 you're such you're so prolific. I was expecting when I 1:42:38.800 --> 1:42:40.960 went to your IMDb to see you've done criminal intent, 1:42:41.000 --> 1:42:43.519 you've done regular law in order to but like, you 1:42:43.560 --> 1:42:46.680 haven't done those. You're just an SVU guy. When uh, 1:42:47.120 --> 1:42:50.160 when it when it uh came to you, were you 1:42:50.280 --> 1:42:52.120 like I only want us fine? 1:42:53.080 --> 1:42:57.479 Yeah, no, you were like geez taking long wolf. 1:42:58.240 --> 1:42:59.320 No no, no, no. 1:42:59.680 --> 1:43:03.760 Actually, early one of my first jobs after I got 1:43:03.760 --> 1:43:07.080 my SAG card in like nineteen ninety was I did 1:43:07.120 --> 1:43:11.160 extra work on the original Law and Order whoa And 1:43:11.240 --> 1:43:13.439 I did stand in WHEK. I did extra work a 1:43:13.479 --> 1:43:16.960 couple episodes stand in work, like in that courthouse that 1:43:17.040 --> 1:43:20.519 was like twenty five years before I booked this first SVU, 1:43:20.600 --> 1:43:21.479 like nineteen ninety. 1:43:22.000 --> 1:43:22.439 Wow. 1:43:23.320 --> 1:43:26.439 So when they came to me the first one was 1:43:26.439 --> 1:43:29.040 like in twenty fifteen, I think, well that was this 1:43:29.040 --> 1:43:33.000 one to King More. Yeah, I was just you know, 1:43:33.080 --> 1:43:34.920 it was just wonderful. They came up to me with 1:43:35.040 --> 1:43:36.760 just an offer and hey, we want you to do this, 1:43:36.840 --> 1:43:39.880 and we really like your stuff. And you know, last 1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:41.479 time I was there, I was doing extra work in 1:43:41.760 --> 1:43:43.680 nineteen ninety So it was thrilling for me. 1:43:44.120 --> 1:43:46.640 What a full circle moment? Wow. 1:43:46.960 --> 1:43:49.680 Yeah, and especially this episode there was there was a 1:43:49.720 --> 1:43:53.880 scene we'll talk about later that had a whole thing 1:43:54.000 --> 1:43:57.360 about full circle about my life and career that was 1:43:57.760 --> 1:43:58.679 kind of blew me away. 1:43:59.520 --> 1:44:03.040 You could just tell us, tell us, oh. 1:44:02.080 --> 1:44:08.040 So the scene where I where I hurt Jerome, you 1:44:08.080 --> 1:44:11.200 know with the nail gun, you know, in that apartment 1:44:11.240 --> 1:44:12.120 that's being fixed up. 1:44:12.800 --> 1:44:16.200 So they originally so you had a location for that. 1:44:16.240 --> 1:44:18.280 We were going to shoot in some apartment that there 1:44:18.360 --> 1:44:20.919 was work being done on and they lost the location 1:44:21.160 --> 1:44:24.440 last minute. So we wound up shooting at the stages, 1:44:25.520 --> 1:44:30.840 and we shot those stages are connected to hockey rinks, 1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:33.280 like there's you know, I forget what. There's like a 1:44:33.280 --> 1:44:37.680 whole sports complaints there. Just thank you, Chelsea Piers. So 1:44:37.720 --> 1:44:40.640 we were on the way back of the stages. And 1:44:40.800 --> 1:44:43.639 I grew up playing hockey like I played hockey as 1:44:43.640 --> 1:44:45.639 a kid, and I thought I was going to play 1:44:45.680 --> 1:44:46.599 hockey in you. 1:44:46.560 --> 1:44:48.920 Know, college and pro and blah blah blah. 1:44:49.120 --> 1:44:51.679 And then I had a freak head injury in school 1:44:52.439 --> 1:44:54.680 had nothing to do with hockey, and I slipped on 1:44:54.800 --> 1:44:57.760 sawdust and smashed my head and I could never play 1:44:57.760 --> 1:44:58.280 hockey again. 1:44:59.080 --> 1:45:00.840 So what was the whole circle for me? 1:45:01.080 --> 1:45:01.559 Was here? 1:45:01.600 --> 1:45:04.920 I was twenty five years after I did extra work 1:45:04.920 --> 1:45:07.840 on Law and Order, and I'm flown to New York 1:45:08.040 --> 1:45:10.639 and they're putting me up and I have this great 1:45:10.760 --> 1:45:16.400 role and I'm you know, doing well as an actor, 1:45:17.080 --> 1:45:22.480 and I'm sitting there in this cold room with sawdust 1:45:22.600 --> 1:45:25.719 all on the floor and behind the wall. 1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:27.439 If you know what. 1:45:27.400 --> 1:45:30.719 It is, it's hockey practice. I can hear the skates, 1:45:30.760 --> 1:45:33.679 I can hear the sticks, I can hear everything going 1:45:33.720 --> 1:45:37.439 on if you really listen and it was like my 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:41.720 whole childhood of having played hockey and the smells and 1:45:41.760 --> 1:45:46.840 the feel of the cold, and that whole thing ended 1:45:46.920 --> 1:45:48.880 because it sawdust, which is all at my feet at 1:45:48.920 --> 1:45:54.800 this point. And there I am having a great part 1:45:54.880 --> 1:45:57.439 on a show, on something I did twenty five years 1:45:57.479 --> 1:45:59.519 ago as an extra when I was starting my career. 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.120 It really blew me away and it actually helped a 1:46:03.160 --> 1:46:05.280 lot with the emotions of the scene. 1:46:05.560 --> 1:46:06.320 Wow. 1:46:07.080 --> 1:46:10.080 Yeah, it's really I don't know if it was cathartic 1:46:10.120 --> 1:46:14.559 as much as just wow, like this is all piling 1:46:14.600 --> 1:46:15.360 in at once. 1:46:15.439 --> 1:46:16.680 And everything's connected. 1:46:16.880 --> 1:46:17.160 Yeah. 1:46:17.200 --> 1:46:18.920 Wowah interesting. 1:46:19.080 --> 1:46:23.240 Wait, so Kara is both a Sons of Anarchy and 1:46:23.400 --> 1:46:24.720 Bosh fanatic. 1:46:25.000 --> 1:46:27.479 So oh, we would love to hear some scam. 1:46:27.520 --> 1:46:31.120 Bloodline and Bloodline. I'll be honest, like, I'm really into 1:46:31.200 --> 1:46:34.040 like three of majors of your major projects. 1:46:34.320 --> 1:46:35.120 I loved all of them. 1:46:35.320 --> 1:46:40.240 I mean, Bloodline was I've been twenty five years acting 1:46:40.280 --> 1:46:42.280 and struggling and da da Da Da da da, and 1:46:42.320 --> 1:46:44.720 then I got my first series regular after twenty five 1:46:44.800 --> 1:46:48.200 years and it was Bloodline. Yeah, and it was it 1:46:48.240 --> 1:46:51.320 was like going from the miners to the All Star team, 1:46:51.360 --> 1:46:55.840 and you know, it was incredible and everyone was so nice, 1:46:55.880 --> 1:46:57.080 the writing was so good. 1:46:57.920 --> 1:46:59.439 It was just need to be a part of it. 1:46:59.439 --> 1:47:01.200 It was the best. It was such a good show. 1:47:01.479 --> 1:47:06.519 And you play Chloe Savigni's who's at SVU alum as well, 1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:10.360 you play her brother, right, and you guys are you 1:47:10.400 --> 1:47:14.240 guys are kind of like bad people, right, You're like, well. 1:47:14.080 --> 1:47:16.479 If you watch the whole series, we're the only decent people. 1:47:16.560 --> 1:47:17.280 Yeah in the end. 1:47:18.040 --> 1:47:21.800 Yeah, but yeah, No, I loved working Chloe. We had 1:47:21.840 --> 1:47:24.200 some great stuff together. We really it was just wonderful. 1:47:24.280 --> 1:47:27.519 She's great, Yeah, but this is like, this is great. 1:47:27.560 --> 1:47:31.880 We talked to Amy Landucker also on this podcast. I 1:47:31.880 --> 1:47:33.360 don't know if you've ever worked with her before, but 1:47:33.400 --> 1:47:36.960 she's somebody who also like like got she got a 1:47:37.000 --> 1:47:39.960 regular series regular role in her early forties. 1:47:39.960 --> 1:47:40.160 You know. 1:47:40.240 --> 1:47:43.360 It was like something like the just the longevity, thet 1:47:43.600 --> 1:47:45.799 you just have to stay in it and keep hustling 1:47:45.840 --> 1:47:48.400 for so long that you were an extra in ninety 1:47:48.800 --> 1:47:51.479 in nineteen ninety and that things weren't really starting to 1:47:51.479 --> 1:47:57.880 pop off for like ten or fifteen years is like yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:47:58.040 --> 1:48:00.280 And even like looking at your IMDb, it's like getting 1:48:00.280 --> 1:48:04.280 in the two thousands it's like customer, hotel manager, characters 1:48:04.280 --> 1:48:07.479 without names, and then suddenly it's like, okay, now we 1:48:07.680 --> 1:48:10.840 got the repeating the big roles and stuff, and yeah, 1:48:10.840 --> 1:48:13.479 you've just been in like so many things that that 1:48:13.560 --> 1:48:16.320 I uh, that I love and thank you. 1:48:16.320 --> 1:48:16.840 You're one of those. 1:48:16.960 --> 1:48:18.400 You're I mean, people just come up to you all 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:19.800 the time and say where do I know you from? 1:48:20.640 --> 1:48:24.280 Because like you have that like is in everything, and 1:48:25.080 --> 1:48:25.439 thank you. 1:48:26.720 --> 1:48:30.800 It happens sometimes like it happened yesterday. I forgot where 1:48:30.800 --> 1:48:33.559 I was, and it's happened. Sometimes they know me from 1:48:33.640 --> 1:48:36.880 a specific but most of the time it's well, why 1:48:36.880 --> 1:48:37.439 don't I know you? 1:48:37.720 --> 1:48:37.920 Like that? 1:48:38.120 --> 1:48:41.479 Yeah, yeah, what what's the most thing? 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:42.679 What's the thing you get the most? 1:48:43.160 --> 1:48:48.559 It's suns for that was when I first really started 1:48:48.560 --> 1:48:52.360 getting recognized, was for suns, and then that said, it's longevity. 1:48:52.400 --> 1:48:56.720 I still get recognized from that Southland. 1:48:55.880 --> 1:48:59.479 By cops because cops loved Southland, but they a lot 1:48:59.479 --> 1:49:01.720 of them also those sins of anarchy and a lot 1:49:01.760 --> 1:49:03.920 of a lot for Bloodline especially. 1:49:05.400 --> 1:49:07.080 It seems like Bloodline. 1:49:06.600 --> 1:49:10.280 Got revisited this year, like it popped up again because 1:49:10.280 --> 1:49:15.120 I was getting recognized a lot this year for Bloodline 1:49:15.160 --> 1:49:15.519 as well. 1:49:16.360 --> 1:49:18.680 I think that's yeah. 1:49:18.520 --> 1:49:21.000 And Lincoln Lawyer, Yeah, yeah. 1:49:20.520 --> 1:49:22.920 That's kind of the cool thing about streaming. I feel like, 1:49:23.000 --> 1:49:26.960 even though streaming is changing the industry so much, and 1:49:27.040 --> 1:49:29.559 sometimes maybe not in good ways, but the good thing 1:49:29.640 --> 1:49:32.840 is like old projects like resurface and people are like 1:49:32.920 --> 1:49:36.040 refinding old things so much, where I don't know how 1:49:36.080 --> 1:49:37.920 you ever used to find a TV show that wasn't 1:49:37.960 --> 1:49:40.040 on the air anymore, you know, you couldn't really go 1:49:40.120 --> 1:49:42.759 like rent it, you know, And now it's like people 1:49:42.760 --> 1:49:46.200 are just like sixteen year olds rediscovering friends now, you know, 1:49:46.320 --> 1:49:48.559 and all these shows that pop back off again. So 1:49:48.560 --> 1:49:51.320 I'm glad people are getting back into Bloodline. But I 1:49:51.439 --> 1:49:53.240 was there for the original. I was there as it 1:49:53.320 --> 1:49:58.920 was there, thank you. But so, how was when you 1:49:58.920 --> 1:50:03.280 were on this back SVU episode? How Haley lou Richardson 1:50:03.360 --> 1:50:06.160 has really your daughter has really had an assent with 1:50:06.200 --> 1:50:08.959 her White Lotus, uh, you know, appearance. 1:50:09.080 --> 1:50:11.200 So I watched all of White Lotus. 1:50:12.240 --> 1:50:14.439 Heather and I were watching it, and I'm like, God, 1:50:14.439 --> 1:50:17.840 this girl is so good because she's familiar, and you know, 1:50:17.960 --> 1:50:19.920 she's such a cute She's such a cute kid and 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:20.479 all that too. 1:50:20.520 --> 1:50:23.600 And I'm like, gods, I must have seen her. And 1:50:23.640 --> 1:50:25.360 then it wasn't until you guys. 1:50:26.800 --> 1:50:30.320 Called me for this and we were rewatching this stuff 1:50:30.320 --> 1:50:34.439 and she's like, babe, that's the girl from White Loads by. 1:50:36.280 --> 1:50:36.760 Your daughter. 1:50:37.680 --> 1:50:41.240 And she was so good because she was so young 1:50:41.280 --> 1:50:42.720 then when we did ask for you don't know if 1:50:42.760 --> 1:50:44.639 she was like sixteen or whatever. She's still so young, 1:50:45.120 --> 1:50:47.400 but she was so spot on good and she could 1:50:47.439 --> 1:50:52.320 turn it on and off like that, you know, and 1:50:52.360 --> 1:50:53.400 she was such a sweet kid. 1:50:53.520 --> 1:50:58.759 How was it filming the prison talking through a phone 1:50:58.840 --> 1:51:01.000 and a glass That seems kind of like a bucket 1:51:01.040 --> 1:51:02.600 list fun moment. 1:51:02.920 --> 1:51:06.639 I you know, it was. But I had a scene, 1:51:06.760 --> 1:51:08.720 one of my favorite scenes in Bloodline where I was 1:51:08.760 --> 1:51:13.959 talking to Chloe like that and it we the reference 1:51:14.040 --> 1:51:17.960 was Woody the woodpecker, and it was such a bea. 1:51:18.000 --> 1:51:21.439 It was so well written, it was so sweet. So 1:51:21.520 --> 1:51:23.760 I had had that before. I probably had it before, 1:51:23.760 --> 1:51:25.400 and a couple other things, but so it. 1:51:25.479 --> 1:51:26.160 Was really neat. 1:51:26.360 --> 1:51:29.760 And you know, Peter and Iced Tea were great to 1:51:29.840 --> 1:51:34.840 work with. They were wonderful. Peter's so sweet, so nice, 1:51:34.840 --> 1:51:37.360 so is Iced team. But Peter's a little more effusive, 1:51:37.920 --> 1:51:39.760 you know, you gotta kind of pull it or I 1:51:39.760 --> 1:51:42.080 did anyway, But both times I've been on the show, 1:51:42.120 --> 1:51:44.200 everyone in that show has been just you know. I 1:51:44.240 --> 1:51:47.120 was thinking about it earlier when when you're on a 1:51:47.160 --> 1:51:52.000 show where there's a regular cast and they kind of 1:51:52.520 --> 1:51:54.960 they're on their own thing, and most times everyone's very 1:51:55.040 --> 1:51:58.240 nice to the guest stars and all that, But on SVU, 1:51:58.360 --> 1:52:01.480 they were it was almost like they were more inclusive 1:52:02.640 --> 1:52:05.920 of you as a guest star then some other shows 1:52:05.920 --> 1:52:08.960 have been over the years. And I don't think it's 1:52:09.040 --> 1:52:11.559 just because I've gotten a little more recognizable. I think 1:52:11.600 --> 1:52:13.680 it's just who they are, you know, they just kind 1:52:13.720 --> 1:52:14.960 of include you. 1:52:15.080 --> 1:52:16.479 Yeah, And when I. 1:52:16.439 --> 1:52:18.680 Went from one episode and did the other one a 1:52:18.720 --> 1:52:21.320 couple of years later, it was just like it was like, 1:52:22.560 --> 1:52:23.519 you know, I hadn't seen them in. 1:52:23.439 --> 1:52:25.400 A little bit, and they're like, hey, Jamie, what's going on? 1:52:25.439 --> 1:52:26.000 What do you like? 1:52:26.320 --> 1:52:29.160 House a family? You know, And it was really is 1:52:29.280 --> 1:52:32.559 very sweet. It was very kind of tender and like 1:52:32.640 --> 1:52:33.760 they included you. 1:52:34.280 --> 1:52:38.080 Well, it's good to hear, considering the subject matter so 1:52:38.240 --> 1:52:42.120 tough for so many people coming on that show. It 1:52:42.120 --> 1:52:45.280 would suck if they were, you know, get in the 1:52:45.360 --> 1:52:51.080 corner in a box or in quarter or something. 1:52:51.320 --> 1:52:54.120 But yeah, and then yeah, then they had you back 1:52:54.280 --> 1:52:57.120 like five four or five seasons later to do the 1:52:57.120 --> 1:52:58.440 burden of our choices. 1:52:58.960 --> 1:53:01.759 And then you're playing a pre Yeah. 1:53:02.360 --> 1:53:03.840 Yeah, have you ever played a priest before? 1:53:05.520 --> 1:53:07.360 I was more of a minister in that one. I 1:53:07.400 --> 1:53:10.920 did play a priest. You're a minister, which was funny. 1:53:12.120 --> 1:53:16.080 I played a priest, a very Catholic priest in the 1:53:16.120 --> 1:53:17.439 first season of Nip Tuck. 1:53:17.680 --> 1:53:18.280 Oh my god. 1:53:18.320 --> 1:53:19.679 I also watched Nip Tuck. 1:53:20.040 --> 1:53:22.839 I was yeah, I was not a good priest. 1:53:23.240 --> 1:53:24.960 Oh, I bet. 1:53:25.280 --> 1:53:27.960 And it was so funny because my mother. It was 1:53:27.960 --> 1:53:29.320 a big It was a big break for me. 1:53:29.360 --> 1:53:32.200 I beat out like some other actors who had big, 1:53:32.240 --> 1:53:35.320 big agents at the time, and. 1:53:34.560 --> 1:53:35.360 I got this role. 1:53:35.439 --> 1:53:38.280 And I called my mom and I'm like, you know, hey, 1:53:38.320 --> 1:53:39.200 I got this big role. 1:53:39.280 --> 1:53:40.840 She's like, do you get killed? I go no. 1:53:41.000 --> 1:53:43.960 She goes, do you kill anyone? I go no, she goes, oh, 1:53:43.960 --> 1:53:46.280 thank god. I go actually, I play a priest. She goes, 1:53:46.320 --> 1:53:47.680 oh my god, that's wonderful. 1:53:48.120 --> 1:53:50.519 Oh. I was the worst type of priest there could be. 1:53:50.640 --> 1:53:53.800 So when they watched it, it wasn't so wonderful. 1:53:55.600 --> 1:53:58.599 Oh my god got this priest was twisted? 1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:00.479 Yeah, missed her. 1:54:00.720 --> 1:54:05.439 I can't keep it. The minister in in for you, 1:54:05.760 --> 1:54:06.959 the burden of our choices. 1:54:07.120 --> 1:54:08.439 I don't think he was twisted at all. 1:54:08.720 --> 1:54:11.160 I'm glad you think so, but I think he was 1:54:11.240 --> 1:54:14.240 just he was straight up in what he believed, which 1:54:14.320 --> 1:54:17.680 is twisted. But yes, he was. He was straight up. 1:54:17.720 --> 1:54:20.599 This is what I believe, this is what I do. Yeah, 1:54:20.600 --> 1:54:24.120 I can see how that's twisted. Yeah, But for him 1:54:24.160 --> 1:54:29.479 as a character, he wasn't twisted. It wasn't like, yeah, 1:54:29.640 --> 1:54:31.160 I see, when did we. 1:54:31.120 --> 1:54:34.080 Talk who's the actor in Charisma that was like my favorite. 1:54:34.120 --> 1:54:39.400 He plays this cult leader who impregnates his children and 1:54:39.400 --> 1:54:41.480 then he ends up killing all these kids in this 1:54:41.600 --> 1:54:42.680 incest cult. 1:54:42.960 --> 1:54:44.000 But when we talked to him. 1:54:43.920 --> 1:54:45.440 He goes, yeah, I didn't realize I was a bad 1:54:45.480 --> 1:54:48.200 guy until I watched it for this podcast, because he 1:54:48.280 --> 1:54:50.640 was so He's like, you know, he just believed that 1:54:51.160 --> 1:54:52.600 this was his religion. 1:54:52.160 --> 1:54:56.000 And I'm like, that's so wild. True, Jeffrey Cobert, I. 1:54:55.880 --> 1:54:58.840 Think, yeah, oh I know he is. Yeah, I know 1:54:59.080 --> 1:55:02.680 jeff Colbert. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen him all the time. 1:55:03.080 --> 1:55:07.080 No, no, No, it's funny because he's also a not zen, 1:55:07.240 --> 1:55:08.200 but he's kind of a. 1:55:10.160 --> 1:55:13.400 I'm not a guru, but yes, yeah, you know what 1:55:13.440 --> 1:55:14.040 I mean, Like. 1:55:14.120 --> 1:55:17.440 Yeah, he does like meditating, he does m he's like 1:55:17.520 --> 1:55:19.000 very genetication yeah. 1:55:18.880 --> 1:55:21.640 Yeah, and he teaches people that sort of stuff. 1:55:21.840 --> 1:55:22.560 Yeah. 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:25.440 So he's kind of like a perfect like but one 1:55:25.440 --> 1:55:27.080 of the nicest people we've ever talked to, like, and 1:55:27.080 --> 1:55:29.880 he's absolutely freaky. And he's in a movie also from 1:55:29.920 --> 1:55:32.760 when I was younger that traumatized me. He's so scary 1:55:32.800 --> 1:55:35.760 in it called like the movie The First Power I 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:38.560 think is what it's called, and like he's it's like 1:55:38.920 --> 1:55:40.880 I just watched it too young and was like, that 1:55:40.920 --> 1:55:42.360 guy is so scary. And then we talked to him 1:55:42.360 --> 1:55:44.680 and one of the nicest people in the world. You know, 1:55:44.720 --> 1:55:47.600 you just hone what you know, probably his belief in 1:55:47.680 --> 1:55:49.720 meditation was his belief that he should have a child 1:55:49.760 --> 1:55:53.600 bride in spu you know, he just gotta you just 1:55:53.600 --> 1:55:55.680 gotta is that Meisner when you I don't know what 1:55:55.840 --> 1:56:00.200 what kind of what acting school that is, but are 1:56:00.240 --> 1:56:02.680 you a theater guy or always. 1:56:02.320 --> 1:56:04.800 Tea No, no, no, I did a lot of like that's 1:56:04.800 --> 1:56:06.480 how I learned to to act. 1:56:06.640 --> 1:56:09.680 Was I did a lot of theater, but I mean 1:56:09.800 --> 1:56:13.640 like so far off Broadway. It was in Jersey. I mean, 1:56:14.160 --> 1:56:15.200 you know I did. 1:56:15.280 --> 1:56:17.720 I did dinner theater at a mall in New Jersey 1:56:17.760 --> 1:56:18.880 one time for a while. 1:56:19.240 --> 1:56:22.640 Yeah, serving food and everything. It was fun. But I did. 1:56:23.120 --> 1:56:25.240 I did a lot of plays, like back to back 1:56:25.280 --> 1:56:28.680 to back for the first four or five years. 1:56:28.320 --> 1:56:30.760 And some were you know, one was a shick. 1:56:30.920 --> 1:56:31.040 You know. 1:56:31.080 --> 1:56:33.520 I played Patricio and Timmy of the Shrew at a 1:56:33.760 --> 1:56:37.360 college outdoor theater in Jersey. And you know, I did 1:56:37.400 --> 1:56:40.840 a bunch of one acts in New York and nothing real. 1:56:41.120 --> 1:56:42.800 I mean I did plays that you would know of, 1:56:42.800 --> 1:56:44.160 but not in venues that you'd know. 1:56:45.680 --> 1:56:47.840 Other than I was. I was a swing in Tony 1:56:47.880 --> 1:56:49.680 and Tina's wedding, like a siller. 1:56:50.040 --> 1:56:52.640 When you just said the dinner theater thing, I was like, well, 1:56:52.640 --> 1:56:54.240 I did go to Tony and Tina's wedding. 1:56:54.280 --> 1:56:55.560 I mean that was fun. 1:56:55.640 --> 1:56:55.840 Yeah. 1:56:55.920 --> 1:56:57.760 Yeah. I did Tony and Tina's wedding in like the 1:56:57.800 --> 1:56:59.480 early two thousands. I went to it because I had 1:56:59.520 --> 1:57:00.560 a friend who was in it. 1:57:01.120 --> 1:57:03.080 And it was it was a fun show. 1:57:03.560 --> 1:57:04.040 Crazy. 1:57:04.280 --> 1:57:07.360 Yeah, yeah, I love that. I really learned to uh 1:57:08.320 --> 1:57:08.680 that show. 1:57:08.760 --> 1:57:10.600 Yeah, because you'd like go to the bathroom and there'd 1:57:10.600 --> 1:57:12.920 be guys like pretending to do coke and stuff like. 1:57:12.960 --> 1:57:14.720 It was like a whole It was so fun. 1:57:15.000 --> 1:57:15.720 They were amazing. 1:57:16.160 --> 1:57:19.240 I'm really so sad I never made it to that 1:57:19.480 --> 1:57:22.600 because that sounds like I would be really into it. 1:57:23.040 --> 1:57:24.360 Yeah, it was fun. 1:57:24.600 --> 1:57:27.920 It's hilarious. Miss that. 1:57:28.200 --> 1:57:30.880 Oh my gosh, do you have upcoming stuff that you 1:57:30.920 --> 1:57:32.960 want to like, I'm looking at it right now. 1:57:33.040 --> 1:57:34.760 Give us the heads up about like I did. 1:57:35.040 --> 1:57:39.200 I did the show called Task, Yeah, and it'll be 1:57:39.240 --> 1:57:45.560 on HBO. Mark Ruffalo is the lead. Tom Pilfree, Sam Keeley. 1:57:45.600 --> 1:57:48.680 I get to work closely with an Irish actor. It's 1:57:48.720 --> 1:57:51.600 the first thing in my career to really surpass Bloodline 1:57:51.960 --> 1:57:55.320 as it's the best thing I've done in my career. 1:57:55.440 --> 1:57:57.240 I think it. 1:57:58.320 --> 1:58:01.240 Isn't it the guy who played yeah young version and Bloodline? 1:58:01.360 --> 1:58:03.560 Yeah, yep. Oh and I got to hang out knowing 1:58:03.640 --> 1:58:03.960 quite a bit. 1:58:04.000 --> 1:58:07.040 We were in We filmed in Philly, which I loved, 1:58:06.360 --> 1:58:09.080 or we stayed in Philly. We filmed in the suburbs. 1:58:09.480 --> 1:58:12.120 But Brad Inglesby, who created Mayor of East Town. 1:58:12.680 --> 1:58:15.960 Yes, that's so funny when you just said it I 1:58:16.000 --> 1:58:18.440 clicked on it on IMDb, and when I saw the 1:58:18.440 --> 1:58:20.720 Mark Ruffalo thumbnail, I was like, this is giving me 1:58:20.800 --> 1:58:22.400 May of east Town. Like in my head, I was like, 1:58:22.400 --> 1:58:23.760 this feels like Mary of Eastown. 1:58:24.240 --> 1:58:26.800 So Brad who created May of Eastown and wrote every episode. 1:58:26.800 --> 1:58:29.080 He created this show and wrote every episode. He's one 1:58:29.080 --> 1:58:32.560 of the nicest humans you'll ever meet. He's just such 1:58:32.600 --> 1:58:35.000 a good guy. Everyone on it was so nice. The 1:58:35.040 --> 1:58:38.120 writing was so good. The character I got to play 1:58:38.240 --> 1:58:43.360 was on and dangerous and exciting, and the chemistry with 1:58:43.400 --> 1:58:46.280 Sam Keeley was amazing. And then I got to do 1:58:46.640 --> 1:58:50.240 season two of nineteen twenty three. I was in a 1:58:50.280 --> 1:58:55.320 little bit in the first season, and Taylor brought my 1:58:55.400 --> 1:58:58.040 character back in a great way. 1:58:58.160 --> 1:59:01.880 Oh this is part is this part of the Yellowstone 1:59:01.920 --> 1:59:03.080 the Yellowstone Universe? 1:59:03.160 --> 1:59:03.840 Okay, cool? 1:59:04.000 --> 1:59:07.160 Yeah, this is the one with Harrison Ford and he Yeah. 1:59:07.200 --> 1:59:09.680 Geez, wow, you had to work with those suckers. 1:59:09.720 --> 1:59:10.360 That's too bad. 1:59:10.400 --> 1:59:10.880 I didn't. 1:59:10.960 --> 1:59:12.880 I didn't get to work with them. I wish I did, 1:59:12.960 --> 1:59:15.160 but my scenes didn't have anything with them. It was 1:59:15.200 --> 1:59:18.360 really uh, it was really neat. Yeah. 1:59:18.360 --> 1:59:20.040 And then I got to go back to Wednesday season 1:59:20.120 --> 1:59:21.480 two and do a little bit here and there. 1:59:21.680 --> 1:59:24.840 That's great, And was the second season also in Romania. 1:59:25.400 --> 1:59:26.240 Now it was. 1:59:26.880 --> 1:59:29.040 It was in Ireland, which is one of my favorite 1:59:29.040 --> 1:59:31.120 places in the mine too. 1:59:31.360 --> 1:59:32.320 I love Ireland. 1:59:33.040 --> 1:59:33.760 Oh my god. 1:59:33.960 --> 1:59:35.880 I got to go back and forth a few times, 1:59:35.960 --> 1:59:38.920 and it was just like wonderful. 1:59:39.160 --> 1:59:43.720 I just want to seafood chowder all the time. What 1:59:43.960 --> 1:59:44.280 you say. 1:59:44.680 --> 1:59:48.760 I love seafood chowder and just like sitting and you. 1:59:48.720 --> 1:59:51.600 Said, I'd just like to sleep with chowder all the time. Wow, 1:59:52.520 --> 1:59:54.560 that is I never. 1:59:54.440 --> 1:59:57.120 Think of Ireland as being like a seafood chowder place, 1:59:57.200 --> 2:00:00.680 but I guess under by walking. 2:00:00.800 --> 2:00:01.880 Yeah that makes sense. 2:00:02.160 --> 2:00:05.800 Yeah, so if you come back, because they've had you 2:00:05.880 --> 2:00:08.640 back now every five years, so you're about due for 2:00:08.680 --> 2:00:11.360 another season. I do like season twenty six, Like, yeah, 2:00:11.400 --> 2:00:14.640 that's been about five since season twenty one. So uh 2:00:14.880 --> 2:00:18.440 what what what do we like? You've played a dad, 2:00:18.600 --> 2:00:22.760 a vigil anti dad, a minister who obviously is anti abortion, 2:00:25.280 --> 2:00:26.080 a blonde ange. 2:00:26.360 --> 2:00:30.360 Okay, okay, I. 2:00:30.320 --> 2:00:34.760 Don't know whatever they whatever they say, Hey, Jamie, that'd 2:00:34.800 --> 2:00:35.240 be nice. 2:00:35.440 --> 2:00:37.600 Yeah, we have moles on the inside. 2:00:37.800 --> 2:00:41.280 Yeah, we've got we've got people that listen. I can 2:00:41.360 --> 2:00:44.960 see you as like a cop from another a cop 2:00:45.000 --> 2:00:48.120 from another precinct or something, you know, like that has 2:00:48.240 --> 2:00:49.160 they have to work with him. 2:00:49.160 --> 2:00:51.680 But then maybe he's back. I don't know. I don't know. 2:00:51.720 --> 2:00:51.840 Now. 2:00:51.840 --> 2:00:53.360 I want people to see your good side, so I 2:00:53.400 --> 2:00:54.960 want you to play. I want you to just play 2:00:55.000 --> 2:00:55.480 good guys. 2:00:56.320 --> 2:00:57.520 That'd be nice. 2:00:58.440 --> 2:01:00.520 Well, I cannot wait to watch task see you in 2:01:00.960 --> 2:01:03.160 anything else you do. And thank you so much for 2:01:03.200 --> 2:01:05.400 taking the time to talk to us. This was great. 2:01:09.600 --> 2:01:10.520 He's too good. 2:01:11.000 --> 2:01:13.120 I need I need a flaw. I need to find 2:01:13.160 --> 2:01:15.360 a flaw in this man. He's too positive. I'm like, 2:01:15.360 --> 2:01:18.800 can you talk a little shit, sir. But he's just happy. 2:01:19.360 --> 2:01:22.000 He's like never had a bad experience, happy for the work. 2:01:22.200 --> 2:01:24.800 Can you imagine you're doing extra work in nineteen ninety 2:01:24.800 --> 2:01:26.720 but things like do not pop off for you into 2:01:26.840 --> 2:01:29.080 like the early to mid two thousand. It's just like 2:01:29.200 --> 2:01:33.520 fifteen years of auditioning and like damn doing shorts and 2:01:33.560 --> 2:01:34.560 stuff like Wow. 2:01:35.120 --> 2:01:37.680 The I mean that is I mean, that is like 2:01:37.760 --> 2:01:42.440 how you build a career. It's like really rare to 2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:45.360 just hit it, you know what I mean, and anything 2:01:45.480 --> 2:01:48.600 like you gotta go to med school, you gotta get 2:01:48.640 --> 2:01:50.800 boots on the ground. Well, oh, my god. There's a 2:01:50.800 --> 2:01:52.600 new season of inc Master. You were in the group 2:01:52.640 --> 2:01:57.240 chat unfortunately of that conversation. But it's six episodes in 2:01:57.600 --> 2:01:59.480 when I found it. I'm still glad I found it. 2:02:00.120 --> 2:02:04.640 But it's OG's versus New Guns, So it's teams, and 2:02:04.680 --> 2:02:07.480 it's people with under ten years experience and then people 2:02:07.480 --> 2:02:10.880 with over ten years experience. The most experienced is he's 2:02:10.880 --> 2:02:14.520 twenty six years in and the ogs are. 2:02:14.480 --> 2:02:17.080 Like smashing the competition. 2:02:17.480 --> 2:02:19.839 And there's a girl that's three years in that's like incredible, 2:02:19.920 --> 2:02:21.520 she'll probably make it to the top three, like she 2:02:21.720 --> 2:02:22.640 is magic. 2:02:22.960 --> 2:02:23.920 Yeah, and that happens. 2:02:23.920 --> 2:02:25.840 And Ryan, who's a judge now who won, who is 2:02:25.880 --> 2:02:28.680 also only four years in when she won, like it's 2:02:28.720 --> 2:02:34.040 not an end some like rule, but the ogs are demolishing. Yeah. 2:02:34.080 --> 2:02:36.480 I mean it's like Malcolm Glodwell talks about the ten 2:02:36.520 --> 2:02:37.160 thousand Hours. 2:02:37.520 --> 2:02:39.560 What a dumb bitch, fucking I know, and I'm done 2:02:39.640 --> 2:02:41.800 acknowledging him. You want people back in the office. We're 2:02:41.840 --> 2:02:44.000 not talking about him, no, no, no, fuck it. 2:02:44.080 --> 2:02:47.400 But I yes, I don't love Malcolm Glodwell that much, 2:02:47.440 --> 2:02:50.440 but I do think the ten thousand Hours is like 2:02:50.520 --> 2:02:52.960 kind of legit, Like the more you work on your art, 2:02:53.200 --> 2:02:55.040 like how could you not be better? And of course 2:02:55.040 --> 2:02:58.280 there's exceptions like the random comedian who's like killer after 2:02:58.360 --> 2:03:00.800 one year, Like you know, of course that happens. 2:03:00.840 --> 2:03:02.880 Well, I'm more thinking about the people that I've known 2:03:03.040 --> 2:03:05.080 for fifteen years who are still not good. 2:03:05.280 --> 2:03:06.800 That is who I'm thinking about. 2:03:07.520 --> 2:03:10.360 So I know ten thousand hours is a guarantee, but 2:03:10.440 --> 2:03:11.760 that's actually kind true. 2:03:11.840 --> 2:03:13.560 Sometimes it's just not their honey. 2:03:13.640 --> 2:03:16.200 Yeah, and that because also sometimes what happens on inc 2:03:16.320 --> 2:03:18.160 masters at least, it's like you could work for twenty 2:03:18.160 --> 2:03:20.240 five years and have the same bad habits, always not 2:03:20.240 --> 2:03:22.800 want to learn, think you know everything, and come in 2:03:22.840 --> 2:03:27.960 with like kind of outdated work without knowing different genres 2:03:28.000 --> 2:03:29.520 and being like, well this is actually what I do 2:03:29.640 --> 2:03:31.400 and I I know, and then the ego kind of 2:03:31.400 --> 2:03:34.160 takes over. So there have been instances where the people 2:03:34.160 --> 2:03:38.560 with twenty years experience really suck, but this season is 2:03:38.640 --> 2:03:44.560 just like interesting. But yeah, things take a long times sometimes, 2:03:44.880 --> 2:03:49.120 but yeah, you got it, because I don't like it's 2:03:49.160 --> 2:03:51.120 always confusing when peoplere like, well I'll move to LA 2:03:51.120 --> 2:03:53.120 and if it doesn't happen in two years, I'm out, 2:03:53.160 --> 2:03:54.520 And it's like you shouldn't even start them. 2:03:54.840 --> 2:03:56.280 Yeah, like what are you talking about? 2:03:56.360 --> 2:03:58.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's if you're willing to not do 2:03:58.760 --> 2:04:00.840 it in two years, you should just never ever do it. 2:04:00.840 --> 2:04:02.520 It's like pretty hard. 2:04:02.800 --> 2:04:04.320 It's like what do they say? It's like you do 2:04:04.360 --> 2:04:06.400 it because you can't do anything else, Like you do 2:04:06.480 --> 2:04:08.560 these things because like you have to do them, like. 2:04:08.600 --> 2:04:09.280 In your way. 2:04:09.760 --> 2:04:13.440 Are the convo that I had with the prop set 2:04:13.480 --> 2:04:16.360 design person on the India I did or not? We 2:04:16.360 --> 2:04:20.080 were like at the little wrap gathering and we're talking 2:04:20.120 --> 2:04:22.600 and she goes, well, what I love doing more is 2:04:23.240 --> 2:04:26.760 showing up, building the set and leaving. And she goes, 2:04:26.960 --> 2:04:30.280 because no offense, I don't like working with actors. 2:04:30.320 --> 2:04:33.200 Go, I get it. I get it. She's like, I 2:04:33.240 --> 2:04:34.800 work with inadimate. 2:04:34.360 --> 2:04:39.040 Objects on purpose, yeah, because they're should be on set maintaining. 2:04:39.080 --> 2:04:40.800 But like she said, she built one of the sets 2:04:40.800 --> 2:04:43.440 for Survival of the Thickest, which I didn't know, like 2:04:43.520 --> 2:04:47.440 she did them Garcelle's closet, I think. And so she goes, 2:04:47.520 --> 2:04:49.800 I just came in, did it and left, and she's like, 2:04:49.840 --> 2:04:51.120 I prefer that kind of work. 2:04:51.200 --> 2:04:52.080 That's so cool. 2:04:52.400 --> 2:04:55.839 Yeah it is, but yeah, you can't fake experience. 2:04:55.840 --> 2:04:58.839 But Jamie's just like grateful for the learning the process, 2:04:58.880 --> 2:05:00.480 Like you can tell he really loves it and loves 2:05:00.520 --> 2:05:03.160 his kids and proud of them all. And I don't 2:05:03.160 --> 2:05:07.240 know in the him, Yeah great guy, Well what do 2:05:07.320 --> 2:05:11.320 we think about this episode? I mean this crime the 2:05:11.400 --> 2:05:13.760 crime like truly, like this is the kind of Oh 2:05:13.840 --> 2:05:16.480 my god, I forgot that we're in the post mortem. Yeah, 2:05:17.120 --> 2:05:18.640 we got to do our post mortem. 2:05:18.680 --> 2:05:21.600 But like this kind of person, this hat and guy 2:05:21.800 --> 2:05:24.640 like truly makes me like ill that you would just 2:05:25.280 --> 2:05:28.040 abuse your power or that you would go to school 2:05:28.760 --> 2:05:32.760 to become both like him the coach, Like that you 2:05:32.760 --> 2:05:35.320 would go to school and like work hard and pass 2:05:35.400 --> 2:05:37.440 exams and do all this just you can be in 2:05:37.480 --> 2:05:41.600 a position to like abuse people. It's so diabolical. 2:05:42.040 --> 2:05:45.880 It is diabolical, but it's not unique. And that is 2:05:46.040 --> 2:05:48.720 like what I'm the most mad at. It's like, yeah, 2:05:48.760 --> 2:05:51.760 these pedophiles do a lot, These molestors and rapists do 2:05:51.840 --> 2:05:53.160 a lot to be able to get away with it, 2:05:53.200 --> 2:05:55.880 Like why are we shocked they volunteer and do all 2:05:55.880 --> 2:05:58.280 these things on purpose, Like these urges are. 2:05:59.640 --> 2:06:02.080 Like they can't control the I don't. 2:06:03.120 --> 2:06:06.760 Yeah, but let's go to what would Sister Peg Do? 2:06:06.840 --> 2:06:07.280 For the week? 2:06:07.360 --> 2:06:10.080 You guys know what this is. It's our weekly segment 2:06:10.080 --> 2:06:15.120 where we direct you towards an organization or a article, 2:06:15.640 --> 2:06:18.800 just more info or something you can do charitably to help. 2:06:20.320 --> 2:06:22.720 Regarding the subject that we talked about in today's episode, 2:06:22.800 --> 2:06:24.680 and this week for what would Sister Peg Do, we 2:06:24.720 --> 2:06:27.120 would like to point you to the Innocence Project. We 2:06:27.200 --> 2:06:30.920 have pointed you to them before, but you know, it's 2:06:30.960 --> 2:06:34.440 never it's never too many times because they do work 2:06:34.480 --> 2:06:38.920 to free innocent people. We obviously hated the whole Jerome 2:06:39.000 --> 2:06:43.560 Jones storyline in this episode where someone is falsely accused 2:06:43.680 --> 2:06:46.640 twice and obviously it does not lead to anything good 2:06:46.680 --> 2:06:48.600 for him in the episode, but also in real life, 2:06:48.960 --> 2:06:54.680 many people go to jail for several reasons, and the 2:06:54.680 --> 2:06:58.600 Innocence Project works to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions, 2:06:58.760 --> 2:07:02.320 and create fair, compassion and equitable systems of justice for everyone. 2:07:02.720 --> 2:07:06.480 Their work is guided by science and grounded in anti racism. 2:07:07.000 --> 2:07:11.080 And for more info go to Innocenceproject dot org. And 2:07:11.200 --> 2:07:13.320 as always, that's a story the day that this episode 2:07:13.360 --> 2:07:15.760 comes out, and then we save that story for Reva 2:07:16.080 --> 2:07:19.600 in our what would Sister Peg do WWSPD highlights on 2:07:19.640 --> 2:07:22.480 our Instagram page, which is That's Messed Up Pod. Go 2:07:22.560 --> 2:07:23.320 give us a follow. 2:07:24.240 --> 2:07:28.440 Yay, all right, and next week I don't know why, 2:07:30.080 --> 2:07:31.880 yay the innocence, but it's good. 2:07:31.920 --> 2:07:32.400 They do good. 2:07:32.960 --> 2:07:37.240 We're gonna do an episode called Smoked legendary episode. 2:07:37.840 --> 2:07:39.600 I would iconic iconic. 2:07:39.720 --> 2:07:43.080 Yeah, Season twelve, episode twenty four, and I like a 2:07:43.080 --> 2:07:44.920 little number game twenty four divided. 2:07:44.640 --> 2:07:45.920 By two thrilling. Yeah. 2:07:45.960 --> 2:07:50.120 Okay, it's AKA Maloney's last episode, guys, so tune in. 2:07:50.160 --> 2:07:51.320 This is gonna be a good one. 2:07:51.560 --> 2:07:54.880 And again, yeah, buy some Christmas gifts from our merch 2:07:54.960 --> 2:07:57.240 if you want that to happen before Christmas. 2:07:57.560 --> 2:07:59.320 Yeah, and we'll see you next week. 2:08:08.320 --> 2:08:10.560 That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. 2:08:10.960 --> 2:08:13.040 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 2:08:13.120 --> 2:08:15.360 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 2:08:15.360 --> 2:08:18.120 it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. 2:08:18.280 --> 2:08:21.440 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 2:08:21.680 --> 2:08:24.560 and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us 2:08:24.600 --> 2:08:27.520 personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. 2:08:27.840 --> 2:08:30.520 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 2:08:30.560 --> 2:08:31.200 more information. 2:08:31.600 --> 2:08:34.600 Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien 2:08:34.760 --> 2:08:37.360 and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain. 2:08:37.600 --> 2:08:40.240 And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:43.520 Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song 2:08:43.600 --> 2:08:46.360 and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to 2:08:46.440 --> 2:08:50.440 our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, 2:08:50.440 --> 2:08:56.680 and everybody at Exactly Right Media dot dum