Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done, Hello, and welcome to another episode of That's
Speaker 3: Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 4: I'm Kara Klink and I'm.
Speaker 2: Lee's A Traeger and here we talk SVU true crime
Speaker 2: and we have cool guests and we're living a dream.
Speaker 4: Jk No. We are micro microlife, great, Macrolife.
Speaker 1: Every every perspective that's good micro Macrolife. Yeah, macrolife, losing
Speaker 1: our rights every second of the day, microlife.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm doing a show and these people from
Speaker 2: Dallas or in the front and I went, how does
Speaker 2: it feel visiting?
Speaker 4: Do you feel free? Do you feel fun?
Speaker 2: And they had a nice little chuckle. I do want
Speaker 2: to say, I mean, we're in the time machine whatever.
Speaker 2: But Thanksgiving weekend, my family already pre bought tickets to
Speaker 2: see Wicked that Friday. On Friday, Yeah, the grandma's, me
Speaker 2: and my sister and the niece. Where I'll go in
Speaker 2: how fun? Yeah at a two pm. And my sister's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: there's barely any tickets.
Speaker 4: I go. Yeah, I've been telling you for weeks, this
Speaker 4: is a big deal, Like.
Speaker 1: You're going to Wicked on Thanksgiving and I'm going to
Speaker 1: Mawana too. I mean I'm excited. You know, I'm excited
Speaker 1: for ma Wana too, but Wicked. I really want to
Speaker 1: see Mawana. I really want to see Wicked. I just
Speaker 1: have to figure out who's gonna go with me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I know I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 1: I don't know what. There's just a lot of crying.
Speaker 1: There has been, like not that I would expect anything
Speaker 1: last I mean, it is like a huge thing. And
Speaker 1: I've actually been hearing that the movie is good, like
Speaker 1: review wise, I think people are saying it is awesome.
Speaker 4: I've just it's been so much marketing. I mean, you know, we.
Speaker 1: Watch Housewives side like I Rebecca bing cough they did
Speaker 1: that full like so I actually, I mean, who knows
Speaker 1: everyone on the internet is a grifter.
Speaker 2: But I happened upon like some marketing girl podcast and
Speaker 2: they were saying that it's actually places paying to license
Speaker 2: Wicked stuff and make products. It's not like Wicked is
Speaker 2: paying these people. It's not like a marketing thing where
Speaker 2: it's like, ah, ge get with this company. It's these
Speaker 2: companies being like could we please license it for our
Speaker 2: eyeshadow or whatnot.
Speaker 4: And so it does seem like a lot.
Speaker 2: Because it is, but it's because people are trying to
Speaker 2: capitalize on it or like these businesses and whatnot. I
Speaker 2: also was like, I don't know, it's split whatever. And
Speaker 2: then I saw these influencers going and doing a go
Speaker 2: before and after and everyone was in tears, and I go, oh,
Speaker 2: I cry just hearing defying grad like on the radio.
Speaker 4: Not that it's on the radio, but.
Speaker 1: And I think it really feels like and maybe they're
Speaker 1: just great actresses, but like Cynthia Rivo and Arianna seem
Speaker 1: like they have like a genuine friendship in.
Speaker 2: Real theater kids, that's a lot of the TikTok too,
Speaker 2: people being like why do they keep crying? And it's
Speaker 2: like have you never done theater? Have you ever talked
Speaker 2: to somebody in a play? Yeah? Like these are mania
Speaker 2: and I mean just watching the Cynthia but I'm just
Speaker 2: not as familiar with her as obviously Ariana Grande. But
Speaker 2: the I reposted this, but it was it's a video
Speaker 2: of her because John im chu is saying, He's like
Speaker 2: the fact that this bitch is doing her own stunts
Speaker 2: flying in the air, acting and singing is very few
Speaker 2: people in the world could do something like that.
Speaker 4: Like I think she is like the.
Speaker 2: Singular talent, and I'm excited to see how they're live
Speaker 2: singing in ropes, flying in the.
Speaker 1: Air, Like, yeah, that must have been on your that
Speaker 1: must have been your in so that I saw that
Speaker 1: because I was watching a whole video of her with
Speaker 1: those fucking blue flips and it looks intense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that yeah, whatever, I'm like really excited for things.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Also, you know, it was both my nephew's birthdays. One
Speaker 2: respects and does like me, and the other he likes
Speaker 2: vineyard vines and it's an issue and I think I've
Speaker 2: talked about it.
Speaker 1: He is, like the transformation into bro is really moving forward.
Speaker 1: Vineyard vines. Oh I didn't tell you this. Yeah, Oh
Speaker 1: I didn't know about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was like, hey, what should I get it?
Speaker 2: You know, birthday I want to do? And they're like, vin,
Speaker 2: I go excuse me, Like that is so gross. And
Speaker 2: it's like he like looks up to his cousins who
Speaker 2: are live in the South, so it's like they don't
Speaker 2: know any better. And you know, he he's young, and
Speaker 2: so I was like, Okay, I'm not going to change him,
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna get him nicer stuff, like better stuff
Speaker 2: of that genre. I can do that for him. But
Speaker 2: I'm old, so I don't actually know the cool stuff.
Speaker 2: So I've been sourcing. I've been asking people. I've been
Speaker 2: trying to get brands of stuff that you know, the
Speaker 2: kids will think is cool. And then there were two
Speaker 2: twenty two year olds in the front row of a
Speaker 2: show and I was like, oh my god, you're young boys.
Speaker 2: Can you help me? And I go what about LA Costs?
Speaker 2: And I go, well, Notla Costs? And I go, okay,
Speaker 2: this is good. This is good, thank you. I need
Speaker 2: this feedback. This is so funny. And so they told
Speaker 2: me Barber bar bou r As was that is so
Speaker 2: fucking preppy.
Speaker 1: And when I went to college, every girl wore a
Speaker 1: Barber jacket, like that is such a preppy brand. But
Speaker 1: it's like, I think it's British or something, so it is, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I guess it's on succession a lot. But the
Speaker 1: sweatshirts all having in huge letters because then I bothered
Speaker 1: everyone at the cellar as well, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what do you guys know like, and someone was like, no,
Speaker 1: it's an old money brand, so like he should like
Speaker 1: if he were a sweatshirt and it said Barber, like
Speaker 1: that's kind of gross, and I was like, okay, fuck.
Speaker 1: So I found a fleece and I've just been like
Speaker 1: searching these brands, like trying to impress them, and then
Speaker 1: I enlisted my other nephew's girlfriend.
Speaker 2: I was like, why do I keep asking? They're old people?
Speaker 2: Like I have the source, so I actually oh. And
Speaker 2: then someone recommended Perry Ellis and I loved it and
Speaker 2: it looked so cute.
Speaker 4: It's the skinhead brand. Did you know that?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Before the purchase, Yeah, I google is Perry Ellis cool
Speaker 2: and it's all the reddits were skinhead, skinhead, proud boy,
Speaker 2: Nazi like Berlin, can you wear it in Berlin?
Speaker 1: And I go, oh my god, thank god, No, Wow,
Speaker 1: you dodged a bullet with the Google. Good job.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I'm really impressed with myself. It's not preppy, but
Speaker 2: I think because what I'm trying to show my nephew
Speaker 2: is like I'm actually cooler than anyone else you want
Speaker 2: to look up to, Like.
Speaker 4: I'm in the know, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 4: I'm cool.
Speaker 2: So I got kiss, Okay, I bought ben Jerry Seinfeld. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but also the the dad from Succession did a campaign
Speaker 2: and their whole thing is like off kilter or like
Speaker 2: older peace. Well, because Maggie Smith, I feel like, did
Speaker 2: a campaign with that or did she know someone else sold?
Speaker 2: Then she had a last campaign, but it might not
Speaker 2: be with them, no lueve loev oh what.
Speaker 4: Whatever? So I did Kith, and I was like, what
Speaker 4: is this? Praise this?
Speaker 2: And then finally Benji's girlfriend was just like, trust me,
Speaker 2: he'll be happy with anything.
Speaker 4: Kith. And his whole thing is like brands and like
Speaker 4: money and all that.
Speaker 2: And so I got him like a sweatshirt, crew neck
Speaker 2: sweatshirt and a hat with the logos and it's all kids.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then Benji's a little more calm, so I got him.
Speaker 2: It looks so cool. It's like a knitted sweater but
Speaker 2: a hoodie ooh yeah. And I know he'll like it
Speaker 2: because he's a little more hippie and chill. But I'm
Speaker 2: really excited. So you guys will find out how they
Speaker 2: reacted to the kith and if I'm cool or not.
Speaker 4: See, but if you.
Speaker 1: Also have brands going formate gift giver, You're you're researching,
Speaker 1: you're talking to the people. You're out there, like honestly,
Speaker 1: you this is why you have a skill.
Speaker 2: But he likes like the quarter zips, but the one
Speaker 2: had stripes, and his dad was like, it kind of
Speaker 2: reminds us of the concentration camp. You can't do it,
Speaker 2: And I like, go, okay, I won't do it. Quarter
Speaker 2: zips like reminds me of old That's so funny. But
Speaker 2: I had stripes. Yeah, they didn't want it. That's so
Speaker 2: funny that.
Speaker 1: Barber is back, because that was like the smell of
Speaker 1: barber jackets. They smell like Crayola crayons because it's like
Speaker 1: there's like a waxy thing on it, and it's like
Speaker 1: it will always remind me of college. Like if I
Speaker 1: smell someone in a barber jacket, I'm like college, of course.
Speaker 1: But then also to a surprise that will shock you
Speaker 1: very little, is that there is a vineyard vines in
Speaker 1: my hometown.
Speaker 4: So I feel like your.
Speaker 1: Nephew would love a shopping spree in Old New Kingaan, Connecticut.
Speaker 4: It's just not even that expense.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm I'm like, I'm like, honey, I got you, Like,
Speaker 2: stop looking up to these cause I just it's like.
Speaker 1: Whales and watermelons and little embroidered belts and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: It's very preppy. It's just like preppy stuff.
Speaker 2: I know Kith isn't preppy, but hopefully you know he
Speaker 2: likes Travis Scott, which is cool. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. Like, I really don't even know.
Speaker 2: So when those little boys went well not la cost
Speaker 2: I go, oh my god. Okay, let's good.
Speaker 1: Wait, let me ask you a question. Do you remember
Speaker 1: when your sister gave your nissa nephew's cell phones. No,
Speaker 1: it's been like a huge convo with like me and
Speaker 1: other moms and like just people that.
Speaker 2: Well, I like what our friend did where it's like
Speaker 2: a kid Apple watch thing but it's only texts the
Speaker 2: parents or something.
Speaker 4: Yes, like yeah, it's like like caul.
Speaker 1: And text just parents, and I think it geolocates so
Speaker 1: like you can track them or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, that is definitely the thing.
Speaker 1: But like moms were talking about, like, well, what do
Speaker 1: you do when like they're ten or eleven and like
Speaker 1: all their friends have a full phone and you're and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm holding out
Speaker 1: till fourteen. I think I'm just gonna have to be
Speaker 1: the jerk parent. But the parents are like, you have to,
Speaker 1: you have to, you have to join together. Like there
Speaker 1: are schools where they do pledges to say, let's all
Speaker 1: not give our kid a phone till after eighth grade,
Speaker 1: like they and they ask all the parents to like
Speaker 1: sign the pledge.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, but isn't the new thing. Were
Speaker 2: you talking about this? Or maybe it's someone else where.
Speaker 2: It's like their house you get exactly this house you don't.
Speaker 2: And we're all different. Different houses have different rules. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, let me tell you what happened. Let me
Speaker 2: tell you what happened for different houses, different rules. Okay,
Speaker 2: So my friend was over here with her kid, who's
Speaker 2: Rosie's friend, and she's really cool, she's not like an
Speaker 2: up aty mom, but she did say the kids were like,
Speaker 2: we're not allowed to have skittles and the mom goes,
Speaker 2: it's the only candy. I say no too, because she's
Speaker 2: from the UK, and she's like, it's literally banned in
Speaker 2: other countries, like the red dye is supposed to be
Speaker 2: really bad, so it's the only one I say no too.
Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, I just I honestly like,
Speaker 2: I feel like I read that and then I thought
Speaker 2: they changed it, and so I've never really like given
Speaker 2: much thought to It's not like my kids are having
Speaker 2: Skittles on the daily.
Speaker 1: So then the next day and she kind of explains that,
Speaker 1: and Rosie hears it. And then the next day we're
Speaker 1: at ice skating and her friend alex gives her an
Speaker 1: osky each a little pack of Skittles, and Rosie's like,
Speaker 1: we can't have this. This is toxic.
Speaker 4: You can't.
Speaker 1: These are bad for your body. And I go, Rosie,
Speaker 1: that's the rule in their house. That's not even the
Speaker 1: rule in our house. And that's not the rule for Alexander,
Speaker 1: So don't don't say that. So I'm trying to like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to like, you know, be like, you know,
Speaker 1: different rules, different houses. So we get home and Rosie goes,
Speaker 1: I know, let's take the skittles and put them in
Speaker 1: a cup of water and then the dye will come
Speaker 1: off and I can just eat them without the dye
Speaker 1: on them. And Jared goes, yeah, right, that's gonna take forever.
Speaker 1: We stick the skittles in the water. The dye comes
Speaker 1: off in seconds. And my kids are just sitting there
Speaker 1: eating white skittles, and Jared is like, we need to
Speaker 1: call a science fair. Rosie is a genius. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they still and they taste good. The dye
Speaker 1: is just for college. It's just the dye. They taste
Speaker 1: the same. They're just sitting there. We dried them, we
Speaker 1: strained them, we dried them off. They were eating white skittles.
Speaker 1: I was never like, we have to be off skined.
Speaker 1: Skittles are such a rare occur, like it's Halloween whatever
Speaker 1: that once they eat a couple bags of skittles, they
Speaker 1: get a Halloween. It's not like I'm constantly bringing skittles
Speaker 1: into the home. But I just thought it was so
Speaker 1: funny that Rosie was like innovation.
Speaker 4: Hold on, I've got an idea anything to get skittles.
Speaker 1: Anything, And I was gonna get on anyway.
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know, I don't. That's just not
Speaker 2: where I go candy. I never was a starbarst Skittles person.
Speaker 2: I always wanted chocolate as a kid, and then like
Speaker 2: I love gummies now, but again, like I would never.
Speaker 1: Buy skittles or Starburst.
Speaker 4: I'll have a red one if it's around. That's what
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like if i'm if they're getting a skittle, it's
Speaker 1: a kid's from someone else bringing into the home, because
Speaker 1: we're really chocolate people. But also, how is the die
Speaker 1: on a skittle different than the die on an M
Speaker 1: and M.
Speaker 4: I should look that up.
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you like like you like you should
Speaker 1: be telling me the answer. I'm just kind of thinking
Speaker 1: out loud, like I don't know. There's just so many
Speaker 1: things we're supposed to worry about. The phones, the skittles.
Speaker 1: All right, well, I gotta maybe I'll ask your sister.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, when to do phones? How do you
Speaker 1: control phones? I don't know. I'm nervous about phones. I
Speaker 1: feel like, Oh, my friend was telling me her kid
Speaker 1: is in a study. He's like the control of the study.
Speaker 1: And it's like you and this scientist told her, like you,
Speaker 1: you cannot believe how much it's fucking kids up, like
Speaker 1: the screens, like having phones and iPads and stuff.
Speaker 4: She's like it.
Speaker 1: Literally you were seeing scoliosis and stuff like and joints
Speaker 1: like nexts, next posture, spine, spinal curvature because of like
Speaker 1: how they're bent down.
Speaker 2: Look, well, I don't know why we're shocked, Like we
Speaker 2: as adults have no control over it. We're all addicted,
Speaker 2: I know, hours a day, so I don't know, like
Speaker 2: that's my whole thing. I'm like, well, I want to
Speaker 2: be on it, so like why would I? But like
Speaker 2: it was causing long term effects.
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing was that they were saying TV's
Speaker 1: not as bad because it's far away from you. Like
Speaker 1: when you're watching it, like there's peripheral stuff happening in
Speaker 1: your vision. You're like, oh, my brother's playing, my dad's
Speaker 1: getting a phone call, it whatever, Like you're seeing other
Speaker 1: stuff like in around you when you're watching TV. But
Speaker 1: like if it's it's the up closeness of like the
Speaker 1: phone and the iPad that just kind of like you're
Speaker 1: just zoned into that world and like nothing else.
Speaker 2: I saw really funny TikTok and it was a woman going, Hey,
Speaker 2: if you're a parent worrying about screen time, I want
Speaker 2: you to know that my kids have zero We do
Speaker 2: zero screen time, and they're the worst kids.
Speaker 4: I've ever met.
Speaker 1: I love that. That helps me so much.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: She was like, so screens or no screens, these kids suck,
Speaker 2: so do what you want to do. And then, of
Speaker 2: course in the comments there is someone who was like, well,
Speaker 2: we have unlimited screen time and my kids the best.
Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, but yeah, I thought that there's
Speaker 1: a million fucking factors. But that is so funny. I
Speaker 1: love to hear that. I mean, you know, I let
Speaker 1: my kids watch a ton of TV and movies and stuff.
Speaker 1: We don't have iPads or anything, but we do TV.
Speaker 1: The movie is also attention. You have to pay attention forurs.
Speaker 1: It's exact ten second YouTube slot and you don't know
Speaker 1: who is.
Speaker 4: It's just like a girl, hi guy, I hate it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I don't do the YouTube because I think
Speaker 1: that that's like him. Well had I had a woman
Speaker 1: tell me, she goes, that's the one thing the horse
Speaker 1: I wish I could put back in the barn is YouTube.
Speaker 1: Like I wish I didn't let my kids just like
Speaker 1: blindly watch YouTube because it's like, uh, it's like they
Speaker 1: can't watch a movie, they can't do anything for long
Speaker 1: periods of time. The attention span is completely fucked.
Speaker 4: I think it doesn't fucking matter.
Speaker 2: And if they feel left out, they feel left out,
Speaker 2: and then they can bitch about you. Like I just
Speaker 2: I don't think you should give in. I think you
Speaker 2: should stand strong no matter what the people around you
Speaker 2: are doing. I know.
Speaker 1: And it's like I wasn't allowed to watch TV during
Speaker 1: the week and I'm obsessed with TV, and so am
Speaker 1: I gonna make them obsessed with their phones even more?
Speaker 4: Who knows what can I do?
Speaker 1: I can't control it, but I'm trying to just know
Speaker 1: of it until their brain's done developing.
Speaker 2: It's not about obsession. It's about the curvature of their spine.
Speaker 4: I know, you know what I mean. It's not like
Speaker 4: and a dude, they're gonna love it more.
Speaker 2: It's they're they're truly ruining their I mean, the people
Speaker 2: that work in tech don't let their kids phones. The
Speaker 2: phones are in the kitchen like anyone that's close to it,
Speaker 2: and look around.
Speaker 4: It's same.
Speaker 2: There's a comic whose aunt worked on the team who
Speaker 2: made microwaves, and guess what, the bitch has never used
Speaker 2: a microwave in her life. Like, if the people on
Speaker 2: the inside are not doing it, you should either.
Speaker 1: Right right, that's so yeah. Well this is coming out
Speaker 1: on a December third.
Speaker 2: Happy Today is a Simpsons trivia night.
Speaker 4: I wonder if I can make it or not. We'll see. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you gotta get back there. Oh and I'm on the road.
Speaker 2: So this weekend, I'm actually in Cincinnati, so I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go to the Zoo on Saturday. But shows it's at
Speaker 2: the Commonwealth and my friend Tommy McNamara is opening, who's
Speaker 2: like really funny, And then I keep writing It's December ninth,
Speaker 2: and for people, I'm in red Bank, New Jersey on
Speaker 2: December nineteenth, which.
Speaker 1: Is so cute. Red Bank is such a cute town.
Speaker 1: Oh great, Did I ever tell you about the job
Speaker 1: I had when I worked for the I worked for Illumination,
Speaker 1: the company that made the Minions before the Minions movie
Speaker 1: came out, Like I was, I saw the Minions before
Speaker 1: they ever hit those streets. And I would commute from
Speaker 1: New York to Red Bank two hours each way, but
Speaker 1: only every other week, and the every other week I
Speaker 1: could stay home, and so I thought it was worth it.
Speaker 1: It was not worth it, but Red Bank is so cute,
Speaker 1: like it's so got.
Speaker 4: It's a really cute town.
Speaker 1: So go see Lisa red Bank if you want to
Speaker 1: find legit and then links.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, and then December twenty first, I'm at
Speaker 2: the Bellhouse in New York. And then twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: dates we could worry about. Yeah, then I don't know.
Speaker 1: But don't just google Lisa Cincinnati because I feel like
Speaker 1: sometimes you get shitty links. So go to That's Messed
Speaker 1: Up Live dot com if you want, or Lisa's Instagram
Speaker 1: and those both take you to like the official link
Speaker 1: trees that have all of the ticket links to those shows.
Speaker 2: No, hopefully you're all noticing my front facing videos. She's
Speaker 2: out there, she's marketing, she's promoting. But also while you're
Speaker 2: at Thought's Messed Up Live, you can go to our
Speaker 2: shop link and get tons of our fun merch We've
Speaker 2: got do you have children detective stuff. We also have
Speaker 2: a new Christmas ornament. You have to order by December
Speaker 2: twelfth in order to get stuff by Christmas, so get
Speaker 2: on there. Orders over seventy five, get free shipping, grab
Speaker 2: yourself some That's Messed Up Love for Christmas, or you know,
Speaker 2: leave a little note for the leave the browser open
Speaker 2: for your partner or friend, who's looking for a gift
Speaker 2: idea for you? And that's that on that should we
Speaker 2: get started on the episode?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go okay today, this one is a rough one.
Speaker 1: We are doing Decaying Morality Season sixteen, episode thirteen.
Speaker 2: But it reminds me of defying gravity. But it's not
Speaker 2: just you and I Decaying Morality. Yeah, it's one of
Speaker 2: the worst. I texted care I started watching and I go,
Speaker 2: oh no, this one, please, no, I don't want to
Speaker 2: do this one. No, this is one of the worst,
Speaker 2: and I have yeah do it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So yeah, this baby came out in twenty.
Speaker 4: And Haley Lou, I mean it's exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exciting but dark but amazing actors, so many
Speaker 2: storylines at once. Yeah, I'm excited to Did you feel
Speaker 2: like it was a more recent episode? It is, but
Speaker 2: then it wasn't like I thought it was truly season
Speaker 2: twenty something and it's season what fifteen to sixteen, like
Speaker 2: and it's almost ten years old, like this episode it's crazy.
Speaker 2: It is weird for me when I was shocked when
Speaker 2: I saw it. Actually, yeah, because one of my cases too,
Speaker 2: it like started right before this, but it didn't.
Speaker 4: End till twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So at first I went, oh, this is probably a
Speaker 2: wiki mistake, and then I was like, oh, it's like
Speaker 2: it was ongoing, and so I yeah, yeah, buckle up,
Speaker 2: Buckle up those who uh don't watch.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, here we go. Yeah, a lot of twists
Speaker 1: and turns and nothing good. But you know, we love
Speaker 1: the show, so we and so we persist.
Speaker 4: We open on.
Speaker 1: Live and Rollins at a coffee shop, just having a
Speaker 1: little girl's night.
Speaker 4: It's nighttime.
Speaker 1: Rollins has been on a little hiatus the last two episodes,
Speaker 1: since the Forgiving Rollins episode, which we've covered, where the
Speaker 1: old Atlanta Boys came to town and she had to
Speaker 1: deal with all their raping asses and you know, she
Speaker 1: had to confess that like, shit wasn't great when she
Speaker 1: was down in Atlanta.
Speaker 4: So she apparently just.
Speaker 1: Got back from a yoga retreat in Costa Rica, and
Speaker 1: who's paying for that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm also like, I.
Speaker 1: Kind of don't buy that for Rollins, but whatever, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're like a you're like an adrenaline junkie.
Speaker 4: You're not gonna like you know, she was so zen.
Speaker 1: She said she didn't even flinch when a yogi tapped
Speaker 1: her on her shoulder while she was meditating at the
Speaker 1: summit of a volcano. It's like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't see this for Rollins, you know.
Speaker 2: What I see she she was fucking a few people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think she was fucking some people in this little
Speaker 2: Hawaii uh volcano getaway.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely and lives like, okay, cool, so you'll stay
Speaker 1: in therapy, and Rollins just kind of rolls over and
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm just really sorry for what I put
Speaker 1: you guys through, and lives like, girl, I'm sorry for
Speaker 1: what you've been through, and you know, classic as a
Speaker 1: VU trope. Meanwhile, same night, on in another part of
Speaker 1: the city, a young girl is walking through the New
Speaker 1: York City streets and from her point of view, men
Speaker 1: are just harassing her NonStop, Like the camera is at
Speaker 1: her point of view and she's just trying to She
Speaker 1: looks a little bit shaken, and men just keep being like, hey, mommy,
Speaker 1: where are you going, Like what's up girl, like blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, and she's like heavy breathing.
Speaker 4: She looks traumatized.
Speaker 1: It is Haley lou Richardson, who has been working for
Speaker 1: so long but really came into my life the most
Speaker 1: through White Lotus season two is where I really feel
Speaker 1: like she popped playing Portia. I did see Split, but
Speaker 1: I don't remember her specifically, but her.
Speaker 4: White Lotus character.
Speaker 2: I feel got a lot of attention for the wardrobe
Speaker 2: and how bad it was, but how particular it was
Speaker 2: to this character.
Speaker 4: And I just like she was so good.
Speaker 1: That character was so good, that was so funny character
Speaker 1: like a like like, you know, a lot of assistance
Speaker 1: to rich people are played the same way all the time,
Speaker 1: and Porscha was so like what like she just had
Speaker 1: no idea and was so got completely wrapped up in
Speaker 1: an insane storyline. And yeah, she's a great character. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see more from Haley Lou. It is
Speaker 1: funny that her name does sound like Hallolu, which is
Speaker 1: Angela's catchphrase. But this poor girl, just like stress, walks
Speaker 1: right past Rollins and Benson's cute little girl's night okay,
Speaker 1: which they also love to do. Now she's in a
Speaker 1: nasty bathroom of a pizza place and she's still.
Speaker 2: Which is like the most unrealistic thing has done that.
Speaker 2: You could just waltz into a pizza spot and use
Speaker 2: the bathroom. I don't think so no way, no, not
Speaker 2: unless you're buying a slice, babe. And I just don't
Speaker 2: feel like I've ever gotten to use the bathroom in
Speaker 2: a slice place.
Speaker 4: Ever.
Speaker 1: I don't think I have. I can't think of it.
Speaker 1: I can't think of one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's fine.
Speaker 1: New York is a real gauntlet if you have to pee,
Speaker 1: it really is. It's like you got to really figure
Speaker 1: out the places that you can go. But she is
Speaker 1: splashing water on her face. She's looks really upset. Someone
Speaker 1: keeps knocking on the door, and he's like, I have
Speaker 1: customers waiting.
Speaker 4: Are you okay?
Speaker 5: And there?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? What are you doing? Then he
Speaker 1: comes in and he's like you're okay. I got you,
Speaker 1: I got you, And she's like no, please leave me alone,
Speaker 1: and then the camera pans away and it looks like
Speaker 1: classic s few, like, fuck, something bad is about to happen.
Speaker 4: This girl's about to get assaulted in the bathroom.
Speaker 1: Rollinson Lives step outside into the cold New York City
Speaker 1: night and their outerwear talking about how Amorro's had a
Speaker 1: bad month, and I'm like.
Speaker 4: When has he ever had a good month?
Speaker 1: And like Noah's asthma's flaring up like everyone's got problems.
Speaker 1: And as they're about to call it a night, they
Speaker 1: see an altercation between the girl and the pizza place
Speaker 1: guy outside and he's like, I'm trying to give you
Speaker 1: your purse, and she's screaming accusing him he took my purse.
Speaker 1: He attacked me, and then she goes he raped me,
Speaker 1: and so Live cuffs the guy and credits all right, So.
Speaker 4: And we have to say the dude is black and
Speaker 4: she is white.
Speaker 1: So yes, yes, the guy at the pizza place is
Speaker 1: a is a black guy, and so it's not you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a bad situation for everybody that she's
Speaker 1: just like, it's also crazy that there's just two SBU
Speaker 1: cops hanging out nearby, you know. So at the hospital
Speaker 1: we find out that the girl's name is Jenna, that
Speaker 1: Haley Loew's name is Jenna, and she had alcohol and
Speaker 1: clonaza pan in her system. And I swear to god,
Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot of drugs on the show.
Speaker 1: They say clonaza pan like ninety times in this episode.
Speaker 1: I had to write so many oh my god, so
Speaker 1: much Cleanazapan. There was bruising possible semen on the sweater
Speaker 1: and evidence of a Tornheimen and Rollins is like, wow,
Speaker 1: this guy rapes a semi conscious sixteen year old virgin
Speaker 1: on the floor of a pizzeria bathroom and lives like,
Speaker 1: welcome back, babe. And so now we're in interrogation. The
Speaker 1: pizza place guy is being questioned by Amorrow and Careesi
Speaker 1: and he's like, you guys got it all wrong. I
Speaker 1: was trying to help her and the guys and he goes,
Speaker 1: I know you cops all hate me, but I didn't
Speaker 1: do this. And Tomorrow's like, we don't even know you.
Speaker 1: And the guy's like, well, now I know you're messing
Speaker 1: with me. And then Finn pops in and pulls the
Speaker 1: boys out while the pizza place guy is like puffing
Speaker 1: on his inhaler. There's a lot of asthma in this episode.
Speaker 1: Finn explains to Tomorrow and Careesi that this guy is
Speaker 1: the Jerome Jones. He's one of the Prospect Park three
Speaker 1: and they are three kids that were held on a
Speaker 1: gang rape charge. All three of them confessed, then they
Speaker 1: got off because of some DNA to contamination issue with
Speaker 1: the lab. Then all three of them recanted and saying
Speaker 1: the confessions were coerced and they have a thirty six
Speaker 1: million dollar lawsuit pending with the city, and so the
Speaker 1: guys are horned to keep talking to Jerome, but Finn's
Speaker 1: like Barbara says, go easy on him until he gets there.
Speaker 1: So now back to Live is at the hospital talking
Speaker 1: to Jenna's parents. The dad is played by Jamie McShane,
Speaker 1: who has been in a million things, like he's in Bloodline,
Speaker 1: He's in a ton of shows that I've watched, and
Speaker 1: another s of you that he's in is we've covered
Speaker 1: is called The Burden of Our Choices where that little
Speaker 1: girl Evangeline comes from Ohio to get an abortion because
Speaker 1: her dad, her fucking stepdad, impregnated her, and he's he
Speaker 1: plays her priest who's like God wants this baby whatever.
Speaker 4: So now he's here.
Speaker 1: Later as he's now here as the dad, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I think that Burden of Our Choices is a later episode,
Speaker 1: so he's the dad here and then later he's the priest.
Speaker 1: The mom is Eva Kaminski. She was also in the
Speaker 1: episode Cold, which is the episode where everyone thinks Chester
Speaker 1: Lake killed someone and he's like on the run the
Speaker 1: whole time, but I don't actually know who she plays
Speaker 1: in that episode. Anyway, they're obviously upset. They tell them
Speaker 1: they have a suspect in custody, and then they're telling
Speaker 1: them there were tracing Jenna's like steps from earlier in
Speaker 1: the day, like she had a dentist appointment, and then
Speaker 1: she never came home, and the dentist is on his way,
Speaker 1: and Ben's makes a face like what, I'm sorry you
Speaker 1: called your dentist to come to the hospital, and they're like, no,
Speaker 1: he's Jenna's uncle, the mom's brother. He consults for the
Speaker 1: NYPD as well, and they want to make sure everyone's
Speaker 1: taking the shit seriously, so obviously, you know here he comes.
Speaker 1: They say Jenna doesn't drink, she doesn't do drugs, she's
Speaker 1: a straight A student, and I'm like, you know, you
Speaker 1: can do both. Just FYI like, you can drink and
Speaker 1: do drugs and also gets trade. A's uncle dentist shows
Speaker 1: up and he is played by Paul Adelstein.
Speaker 2: Who I really like him. I think he's attractive. I'm
Speaker 2: into what's his name, Paul Adelstein. Yes, I like Paul Adelstein. Well,
Speaker 2: it's crazy because he plays a lot of shitty guys,
Speaker 2: like he.
Speaker 1: Was at show, Like I recognize him also from a
Speaker 1: show I barely ever watched, but because it was on Bravo,
Speaker 1: obviously I absorbed The Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, Oh, which
Speaker 1: he plays.
Speaker 4: The ex husband of the main character. And that show. Oh,
Speaker 4: and I'm sure he's like a tool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then and also in this show Chance that
Speaker 1: I watched, which is the show starring the guy from House,
Speaker 1: he plays like an extremely abusive husband. So I've seen
Speaker 1: him in a bunch of things where he's like a
Speaker 1: very bad but.
Speaker 2: You know, and not that theater people can't be bad,
Speaker 2: but it's like he does play bad, but I'm sure
Speaker 2: he's just such a little theater dork in his yeah,
Speaker 2: true spirit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, physically he's hot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And he's here. He's doctor Alexander and Benson knows him immediately.
Speaker 1: She's like, yes, I recognize you from all of the
Speaker 1: dentistry cases that we've had to have you testify at
Speaker 1: she's been and and she was like, I recognize you
Speaker 1: from the case of Ellie Porter. And he calls her
Speaker 1: the burnt Girl, and you know, I think that makes
Speaker 1: live fluinch a little bit. And he says, yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: Jenna was in for an appointment. I gave her some
Speaker 1: leighta Kane and Nitriss, but those were off fast. She
Speaker 1: was fine when she left, and now Jenna is waking up,
Speaker 1: so they all, like, you know, rush to her room,
Speaker 1: and he says to the parents, he's like, you should
Speaker 1: go to like you should be there. When she's talking
Speaker 1: to the cops, she doesn't remember how she got to
Speaker 1: the pizza parlor. She remembers leaving uncle dentist Neil. His
Speaker 1: name is Neil, the dentist. She remembers leaving Uncle Neil's
Speaker 1: and then going to her friend Kara's place to study
Speaker 1: I love It Lucky Yeah, another Kara. She denies drinking,
Speaker 1: but says she felt sick at Kara's, so she must
Speaker 1: have decided to leave. She remembers going to the pizza
Speaker 1: place to go to the bathroom, and then she mentions
Speaker 1: the guy coming into the bathroom. She remembers that's when
Speaker 1: it gets hazy. She remembers being cold the sweater, her
Speaker 1: sweater and her skirt were pushed up. His belly was
Speaker 1: rubbing against hers. It hurt, but she couldn't move. He
Speaker 1: got it all over her. She says she's apologizing to
Speaker 1: her dad, who looks like extremely shook and it is
Speaker 1: traumatizing to have to recount all of this in front
Speaker 1: of your parents.
Speaker 4: And he tells her it's not your fault.
Speaker 1: And at the precinct, Barbara breezes in in a tux
Speaker 1: now looking dapper as hell, like he has just come
Speaker 1: from some kind of met galas.
Speaker 4: Or not met Gala.
Speaker 1: He's come from like some kind of policeman's ball where
Speaker 1: the tickets are, and they tell him about the sweater seamen,
Speaker 1: which could either nail the guy or if it's not his,
Speaker 1: he like, you know, Jerome has grounds for another false
Speaker 1: arrests lawsuit and they'll be all working in Staten Island,
Speaker 1: which apparently is the worst nightmare for all of these cops.
Speaker 1: And Barba's like, well, let me go alone. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: Barba's like, let him go until this case is air tight.
Speaker 1: This guy's waiting on a thirty six million dollar judgment
Speaker 1: that from the city that he's probably gonna get he
Speaker 1: is not a flight risk. And someone has to tell
Speaker 1: Live that they're cutting this guy loose and caresee's the
Speaker 1: new guy, so he gets the short straw. So Lives
Speaker 1: now on the phone annoyed because she's like, but Jenna,
Speaker 1: I did him, and she tells Careesi to talk to
Speaker 1: the coworkers, rush the DNA and get security footage from
Speaker 1: the pizza place. So she gets interrupted by Uncle Dentist
Speaker 1: who's like, well, my dental connects at one PP just
Speaker 1: told me that you cut my niece's rapist loose.
Speaker 4: What the fuck?
Speaker 1: And then he tells the dad Luke and also that
Speaker 1: the suspect is one of the Prospect Park three. He
Speaker 1: goes and the dad goes, oh, he's one of them,
Speaker 1: a known thug rapist who got off on a technicality,
Speaker 1: which is like, look, the whole sentence is fully coded
Speaker 1: in racism. And Uncle Dentist is gassing Luke up too.
Speaker 1: He's like telling him about the lawsuit, that's why they're
Speaker 1: giving him special treatment, and Benson's like, we just need
Speaker 1: more evidence. We're still working on the case. But the
Speaker 1: dad is like, who's pulling your strings? Al Sharpton, and
Speaker 1: then the dad storms off, So, you know, sadly, I
Speaker 1: think this dad did vote for Trump.
Speaker 4: At the precinct.
Speaker 1: The download from Kara's family is that Jenna's backpack is
Speaker 1: still there, but that they were not partying, but Jenna
Speaker 1: did look kind of Green when she left. Around six o'clock,
Speaker 1: traffic cameras have Jenna on the street heading to the
Speaker 1: pizza place. Ten minutes later, she leaves. They're getting terru
Speaker 1: on the footage from inside the pizza place because there
Speaker 1: was like a glitch and they obviously need Taru to like,
Speaker 1: you know, clean it up. Live's phone rings, and before
Speaker 1: she picks it up, she calls him, Barbara, I can
Speaker 1: hear it, and it is there, tid cool she.
Speaker 4: Does call it.
Speaker 1: She goes, Barber's gonna want us to get on this
Speaker 1: or whatever, and so if you guys want to see it.
Speaker 1: End of act one of this episode, we get a
Speaker 1: Barbara from Live uh oh music swells Live is not
Speaker 1: getting good news on the phone, and she says, we
Speaker 1: don't need to put a rush on that DNA anymore.
Speaker 1: Cut to a crime scene. Forensics is already there taking photos.
Speaker 1: Jenna's dad, Luke, is cuffed and looking despondent. Then, once
Speaker 1: Finn and Caresy arrive on the scene, they pan to
Speaker 1: the floor where Jerome is lying they're dead, near a
Speaker 1: tripod and a camera, and Luke is like, I was
Speaker 1: just trying to get him to record a confession. I
Speaker 1: didn't mean to kill him, but there's a chair with
Speaker 1: rope and Caresee's like, this doesn't look like an accident
Speaker 1: and he's not wrong. So now after the commercial break,
Speaker 1: we're seeing footage of the forced confession session where Jerome
Speaker 1: is tied to a chair. Luke has a nail gun
Speaker 1: and just keeps like nailing nails into the wall right
Speaker 1: behind him, demanding that he confess to what he did
Speaker 1: to his daughter, and Luke keeps saying.
Speaker 4: Nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1: Jerome is coughing, He's begging the guy to stop. Luke
Speaker 1: is threatening to shoot the nail gun through his dick,
Speaker 1: and Jerome's like, okay, okay, I did it. I raped her,
Speaker 1: and then he starts saying my chest, I need air.
Speaker 1: He's coughing, and then they stop the video. I mean,
Speaker 1: thank god, I really did not want somebody to watch
Speaker 1: somebody suffocate on camera. They stop the video, Finn goes.
Speaker 1: It goes on from there. Luke did give CPR, but
Speaker 1: the medical examiner says he died from a heart attack
Speaker 1: triggered by asthma.
Speaker 4: Luke called nine one one. He didn't mean to kill
Speaker 4: the guy.
Speaker 1: Barba's like, it does not matter, Luke Davis is looking
Speaker 1: at felony murder, which, as we remember I've only learned
Speaker 1: through the course of doing this podcast, is when you
Speaker 1: kill somebody in the course of committing another crime, Like
Speaker 1: even though it's not like a planned murder, you did
Speaker 1: kill someone while you were doing so it's felony murder,
Speaker 1: which Careese is like, yeah, but he'll get off if
Speaker 1: he can prove extreme emotional duress, and Barbara goes boo, yeah,
Speaker 1: fordam law, which feels like it feels like he's kind
Speaker 1: of being condescending but also giving a compliment like classic
Speaker 1: Barbera and Benson's like, we need to push the DNA
Speaker 1: and the tar oo footage from the pizza place to
Speaker 1: see if this guy is good for Jenna's attack. If
Speaker 1: he's the guy, no jury is gonna convict Luke, and
Speaker 1: Barba's like, cool, thanks. If you guys come to a raiment,
Speaker 1: keep your mouth shut, like I don't need you to
Speaker 1: be like helping get this guy off.
Speaker 4: So now at a round.
Speaker 2: I don't like that they're so gung ho about trying
Speaker 2: to get him off. They're like, it's I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't like it. It's just like duress are not
Speaker 2: like this young man died without core. Its thing, and
Speaker 2: we don't know white woman, black man, Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: We believe victims here at SVU, but like, what the fuck.
Speaker 2: I don't care if he gave CPR, he was stressed,
Speaker 2: what happened to his daughter. I'm not I'm devastated. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really hate the scene I get. And you someone
Speaker 2: who has asthma, how does that feel?
Speaker 1: Yes, it's I it's scary. I mean like it is
Speaker 1: really like I don't know, it's ares me. But also
Speaker 1: I think like they are like I love this actor
Speaker 1: Jamie McShane, but like they're lightly coding this guy as
Speaker 1: like racist. He's immediately jumping to the fact that and
Speaker 1: this guy that's like I have to It's like you
Speaker 1: can't just let the cops do their job. You're like,
Speaker 1: I have to go seek justice, like I have to
Speaker 1: go take care of my baby girl or whatever. And
Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit why we are not
Speaker 1: like finding a lot of sympathy for him, even though
Speaker 1: he did not want this to happen at least at
Speaker 1: this moment. Okay, So now at arraignment, Luke is represented
Speaker 1: by none other than Lorenzo D'sapio and if you'll remember,
Speaker 1: he is the attorney who entered into a relationship with
Speaker 1: his client, Kim rolins, Oh, so.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say not what is it, Vincenzo.
Speaker 1: What his name Lorenzo, Direpio, Lorenzo. She's always like, well,
Speaker 1: mister D'sapio says, and then she starts calling him Lorenzo
Speaker 1: because now they're in a relationship, like because Kim is
Speaker 1: a freaking crazy person. So he's pleading not guilty for
Speaker 1: Luke mister Dasapio, and the courtroom erupts like. Jerome's family
Speaker 1: is all in there. They're furious. The mother is so upset,
Speaker 1: she's crying. She's going he killed my baby. Barbara wants
Speaker 1: remand D'sapio wants ro r. The judge is like, sorry,
Speaker 1: no vigilantes aloud, and he sets the bail at one
Speaker 1: million dollars. Jerome's family cheers when they hear the bail amount.
Speaker 1: Jenna is there like apologizing, hugging her dad. Uncle dentist
Speaker 1: is like, we're gonna get you out. So in the hallway,
Speaker 1: Jerome's mom is talking to the press and telling them
Speaker 1: the NYPD framed my son for this. Rape for the
Speaker 1: original rape and now they're doing it again. They set
Speaker 1: them up to be killed. She points to Jenna.
Speaker 2: Looking that great for him though too, it's like multiple
Speaker 2: accusations at this point. Yeah, one false accusation. Okay too,
Speaker 2: that's you.
Speaker 1: Know, right right, And then she sees Jenna points at
Speaker 1: her calls are a liar, goes, you killed my son,
Speaker 1: and Cariesi arrives with more bad news. Taru got the
Speaker 1: camera footage. Jerome was in the bathroom for less than
Speaker 1: two minutes, so now they're watching the video and Cariese's
Speaker 1: giving the play by play. She goes into the bathroom
Speaker 1: for eight minutes. A line forms again, who are all
Speaker 1: the people waiting in line to use this disgusting pizza bathroom?
Speaker 1: But anyway, a line forms. Jerome knocks. He goes in
Speaker 1: at six point thirty and he's in there for ninety
Speaker 1: seconds with the bathroom door ajar the whole time, like
Speaker 1: if you were going to be attacking, you would close it,
Speaker 1: lock it behind you whatever. He follows her out with
Speaker 1: her purse. She has her clothes and tights on. The
Speaker 1: tights is the clincher too, because it's like, yeah, we've
Speaker 1: seen people commit rapes very quickly on this show. Remember
Speaker 1: the episode contact. I mean that is between two subway stops.
Speaker 1: But we all we know as ladies, tights are not
Speaker 1: coming on and off in a quick way, you know,
Speaker 1: like tights are and he's fully closed. So maybe Jenna
Speaker 1: was assaulted first and conflated things Live suggests and they're like,
Speaker 1: or she's a sixteen year old girl who got drunk
Speaker 1: sex and was afraid to tell her parents and lives
Speaker 1: like go check with her friends, find out how she
Speaker 1: got the clonaza pan.
Speaker 4: We're back on the.
Speaker 1: Cut to jail where Jenna and her mom are talking
Speaker 1: to Luke through the glass with the phones right, like
Speaker 1: what do you call that? What do you call that
Speaker 1: little phone booth like on you know where you get
Speaker 1: to talk through the phones.
Speaker 2: Oh, I never thought about my official name. Hopefully you
Speaker 2: never have to use one of those carats.
Speaker 1: I hope I never have to, but maybe, like but
Speaker 1: in an acting scene or something, Yeah, to be like
Speaker 1: I wired you the money.
Speaker 4: It should be coming through. There should be money in
Speaker 4: your commissary. Now that's my audition. I had the glass,
Speaker 4: yeah and go I'm thinking of you baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, the mom is going, well, they're saying
Speaker 1: this guy is innocent, and Luke's like yeah, but Neil,
Speaker 1: who is uncle dentist, is saying it's just politics, and
Speaker 1: he's like the dad asks Jenna, he did this to you, right,
Speaker 1: and Jenna's like, I mean, even if I'm not sure,
Speaker 1: it's better if I just say it was right, it's
Speaker 1: better for you. And then uh oh, honey, watch a
Speaker 1: television show. They record those convos, so they cut to
Speaker 1: Jenna in wood room Blinds talking to Amarl and Rollins
Speaker 1: and they're like playing her the time, like.
Speaker 2: You can't even shower in private, and you think you
Speaker 2: get to just go on the phone with no.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yeah. So they're like, so, hey, girl, what
Speaker 1: do you mean when you said that? She's like, I
Speaker 1: won't do anything to like fuck over my dad, and
Speaker 1: they tell her, well, we know it wasn't Jerome, but
Speaker 1: we do think something happened to you. And now outside
Speaker 1: of this woodroom blind's interrogation, Jenna's mom is mad that
Speaker 1: she can't go in, but Finn and Careesi are trying
Speaker 1: to just convince her to chill so that Jenna will
Speaker 1: like spill, you know, which is like it's like much
Speaker 1: easier without your parents there. She's already had to like
Speaker 1: give all the details about like semen in front of
Speaker 1: her dad and mom. So so, Jenna finally admits she
Speaker 1: had a couple sits from a vodka bottle, but no
Speaker 1: pills or drugs when she was at Kara's house, because
Speaker 1: you know how we party at Kara's house, guys, we
Speaker 1: get the vodka bottle passing. So after Kara's house, her
Speaker 1: memory gets fuzzy. She remembers she was sitting during the attack,
Speaker 1: and Rollins goes show us, which they've never done anything
Speaker 1: like that before, Like I've never seen them be like
Speaker 1: acted out right now, and they make her like lean
Speaker 1: back in the chair. She leans back, She looks up.
Speaker 1: She remembers sliding down in the chair. She says, I
Speaker 1: was holding onto the arm rests. I remember his belt
Speaker 1: buckle clinked over and over. He pulled up my sweater.
Speaker 1: I couldn't move. His hands were so cold. They asked
Speaker 1: her was there any watch? Was there jewelry? She goes
Speaker 1: a big ring like and then she stops herself and
Speaker 1: she goes, don't tell my mom please, Like she's clearly
Speaker 1: very worried for how much this has already affected her family.
Speaker 1: And then she goes a ring like my uncle Neil
Speaker 1: wears and she's like, I think it was him, and
Speaker 1: they say think or no, and she says it was him.
Speaker 1: My uncle Neil raped he raped me.
Speaker 4: It's like the bit.
Speaker 1: It's such a twist, but it's like, I also kind
Speaker 1: of know when you see the uncle come in Paul Adelstein,
Speaker 1: and you're like, he's got a lot of IMDb credits, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think he's just coming in to be supportive
Speaker 1: uncle who works for the NYPD, you.
Speaker 2: Know, No, And yeah, for me, it was the NYPD
Speaker 2: of it all, like, yeah, oh what a smart movie,
Speaker 2: little rape guy, you have volunteer for the cops exactly.
Speaker 1: So Benson and CREESI are behind the glass and Caresa
Speaker 1: goes an uncle would do her?
Speaker 4: Uncle did it?
Speaker 1: I can't believe that and lives like yeah that what
Speaker 1: how long have you been? I mean it's like season sixteen.
Speaker 1: Haven't you been here for a minute?
Speaker 4: Like we're we're seeing.
Speaker 1: Uncles do this kind of shit all the time. Back
Speaker 1: at Live's office, they're figuring all this out. Barbara's not psyched.
Speaker 1: He's like, aside from being an NYPD consultant. He's big
Speaker 1: on the charity circuit. They were probably at the same
Speaker 1: black tie event earlier this episode, and he sets up
Speaker 1: dental clinics in third world countries.
Speaker 4: I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1: Remember Jimmy Saville, wasn't he like a huge charity guy too.
Speaker 1: He's testified in dozens of cases. If he's convicted, all
Speaker 1: those cases are under scrutiny, which it is wild how
Speaker 1: many times somebody directly involved with the NYPD does something
Speaker 1: fucked up and they have to be like all those cases,
Speaker 1: like if it's not Rudnick, this guy judges like all
Speaker 1: kinds of people that have testified, and Jenna has no
Speaker 1: motive to lie. They're like, she remembers the ring, the
Speaker 1: details line up with a dental DT.
Speaker 2: Do you think she lied in the beginning and because
Speaker 2: she was scared and there is gil or do you
Speaker 2: think she really was in like a psychosis kind of state.
Speaker 1: I think you could be so traumatized by someone you
Speaker 1: trust and know, who's a member of your family doing
Speaker 1: that to you, that she could have totally been in
Speaker 1: like a like a fugue state of like just complete
Speaker 1: trauma of like that happening plus the fact that she
Speaker 1: was on these drugs, you know, like kleanazepan is gonna
Speaker 1: make you all fucked up.
Speaker 4: So that fucked with her memory.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 1: So I don't think she was lying on purpose about Jerome.
Speaker 1: I'd like to think not. But so they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she remembers the ring, and all the details line up
Speaker 1: with the dental office, including the clonazapan. Finn's like, this
Speaker 1: is why I don't trust dentists, and I just lol,
Speaker 1: I mean, like that's so good, Like when he just
Speaker 1: never goes to the dentist he doesn't trust them, or
Speaker 1: like he brings someone to watch while he goes under.
Speaker 4: I just went to the dentist yesterday. You know, I
Speaker 4: love we usaid this. I miss him. I miss him.
Speaker 2: I actually I don't know what I'm gonna do. It
Speaker 2: was a really pleasant experience. So I'm on the journey, okay.
Speaker 1: And then Benson's like, why is the DNA on the
Speaker 1: sweater taking so long? So she tells Amorrow and Careesi,
Speaker 1: why don't you buddy up to uncle dentist and get
Speaker 1: his DNA. So at his office they're talking to him.
Speaker 4: Like a pal.
Speaker 1: They're like, hey, bro, like you're basically a cop, like
Speaker 1: we are, you know, let's talk bro to bro, you know.
Speaker 1: They're like, we're just trying to get all the Evans
Speaker 1: together so we can pin this on Jerome, and we
Speaker 1: just need your DNA so we can rule you out
Speaker 1: because obviously you're the greatest guy in the world. And
Speaker 1: then a hygienist comes in and Neil introduces her as
Speaker 1: his wife, Jaya. They also then she's like, come on,
Speaker 1: you have another patient, So right before he leaves, they're like,
Speaker 1: can we swab you?
Speaker 4: And he's like sure.
Speaker 1: So then Jaya is getting them a list of all
Speaker 1: the patients and explaining that anti anxiety drugs would be around,
Speaker 1: but they're usually locked up, and they're like, well, they
Speaker 1: have been in the room during Jenna's appointment, and she's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, yeah, totally, it's totally possible.
Speaker 4: They were in the room.
Speaker 1: And she's a teen now, and you know teens are
Speaker 1: thieving drug users. So yeah. So outside, Amorrow and Careesi
Speaker 1: are talking about how they clocked how quick the wife
Speaker 1: wanted to paint Jenna as like a drugged out teen,
Speaker 1: and that she's obviously protecting her husband, like helping set
Speaker 1: up the story. At the precinct, the guys are telling
Speaker 1: the gang they think the wife stood guard for him
Speaker 1: while he did this attack, and that she's the only
Speaker 1: one with access to the back rooms. It's a really
Speaker 1: small office. Theer's like a receptionist up front, and then
Speaker 1: it's just her and him in the back. So Benson
Speaker 1: is now gaming out a working theory. Jaya gives Jenna
Speaker 1: the drug in the chair, then the nitress. She's out
Speaker 1: of it, can't process the but she's in pain. After
Speaker 1: she does a couple shots at her friend's house that
Speaker 1: mixes with the meds, that's when she gets all out
Speaker 1: of it, and then the whole encounter with Jerome happens.
Speaker 1: Finn gets a call done done. The DNA sweater seamen
Speaker 1: belongs to uncle dentist. Okay, we're closing in. They bring
Speaker 1: him in and they're like, what's up, bro, We just
Speaker 1: found JIZ on your niece's sweater and it's yours. And
Speaker 1: he's like, oh man, you're not gonna believe this embarrassing story,
Speaker 1: but please keep it quiet. My wife and I are
Speaker 1: so horny for each other. I boned her in the chair.
Speaker 1: We had a little quickie before in between patients and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was coming in, but I thought I would
Speaker 2: just you know, fuck my wife, yeah quick in the office.
Speaker 1: Then I pulled out, sprayed my jis everywhere, didn't clean
Speaker 1: it up, and let my niece come into the office
Speaker 1: and rub her sweater on it. And he's like, it's
Speaker 1: nothing I really want my patience to read about.
Speaker 4: And they're like, oh, yes, of course.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, Jenna says you raped her, and
Speaker 1: he's like what that It's impossible and horrifying, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, nitrous can cause hallucinations, and Jaya said she
Speaker 1: helped herself to some klnazepan. So now like suddenly these
Speaker 1: too are united front about the klnazepan and she had
Speaker 1: alcohol in her system and all this could lead her
Speaker 1: to accuse her uncle of rape. Then he threatens them
Speaker 1: with a lawsuit if they keep this up, and he
Speaker 1: storms out, and Rollins is like it's true. Well, Rollins
Speaker 1: is like he's kind of right, Like this isn't the
Speaker 1: most air tight case with all the drugs and booze involved.
Speaker 1: But they also realized that if this dude raped his
Speaker 1: own niece with his wife right there.
Speaker 4: This was not his first offense.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, So she tells them give it a full
Speaker 1: court press. She wants uncle dentists in cuffs. This is
Speaker 1: what Live does. So now we're all checking in. Everyone's
Speaker 1: been looking looking, looking for more stuff to incriminate the dentist,
Speaker 1: and Robins found an old lawsuit that was settled, but
Speaker 1: that was not about bad dentistry. They have to see
Speaker 1: if Barba can possibly get along around the confidential of
Speaker 1: it all. In walks Jenna and her mom and they're like.
Speaker 1: The mom's like, Jenna needs to tell you something. So
Speaker 1: now in Live's office, Jenna is fully recanting. She's like,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said that uncle Neil did this. She's
Speaker 1: not saying he didn't do this, She's saying, I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have said that uncle Neil did this. Her therapist said
Speaker 1: that she was confused and that trauma and drugs and
Speaker 1: alcohol can mess with short term memory. And now Jenna's
Speaker 1: mom is saying that Jenna was suggestible at the time
Speaker 1: and that when she left Jenna alone with the cops,
Speaker 1: they planted the idea in her head.
Speaker 4: So the mom goes, you're.
Speaker 1: Framing my brother and you're using my daughter to do it,
Speaker 1: and Barba's like, oh did he tell you that? Who
Speaker 1: referred you to this therapist? And the mom is doubling down.
Speaker 1: She's like, don't try to twist it. And it's like, no,
Speaker 1: did your brother refer to you to the therapist or what?
Speaker 1: And like it is hard to watch how.
Speaker 2: She is so like, well, it reminds me of the
Speaker 2: Natasha Leone episode too.
Speaker 4: Yes, fuck these uncles yo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely never trusts an uncle except my brothers are good.
Speaker 4: It is true. I do like uncle, I do like.
Speaker 1: And I love my own uncles. I don't have a
Speaker 1: single creepy uncle like I my uncle. Like, I had
Speaker 1: an uncle who suffered from schizophrenia and he told me
Speaker 1: the craziest stories and he would tell me perverted jokes
Speaker 1: all the time, and I never felt uncomfortable around him.
Speaker 1: He was great.
Speaker 2: Well, I have an uncle put a knife to my
Speaker 2: throat as a joke. So I have a fucking creepy
Speaker 2: pun I guess yeah, yikes own the salami factory?
Speaker 1: Wait what about the salami factory?
Speaker 4: He owned it?
Speaker 1: Oh, we owned a Hey, before I ate meet I
Speaker 1: would have really liked to have met him, because I
Speaker 1: do love salami. No, I just kidding the knife cancels
Speaker 1: that out. Okay, so they're like, how about the sweater semen?
Speaker 1: And how was it found inside your sweat? Because they
Speaker 1: were like what about the sweater semen? And the mom
Speaker 1: goes he explained how that got there, and they're like
Speaker 1: inside her sweater, which is the first time they're talking
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 4: This was the semen was in it. It wasn't like
Speaker 4: on a sleeve. It was like.
Speaker 2: Sloppy, are you with your come when you're fucking raping
Speaker 2: your knees? Like I lean up your giz like that's
Speaker 2: so confident, I know, I know so gross. And the
Speaker 2: mom was just like plugging her ears. She's like a
Speaker 2: la la la, and Jenna's like, I'm not accusing my uncle.
Speaker 2: He would never do that to me.
Speaker 1: Later, Barba's like, well there goes the whole case and
Speaker 1: lives like you need to chill. The mother is obviously
Speaker 1: pressuring Jenna there are no other victims yet, why don't
Speaker 1: we subpoena his patient list? And Careese points out that
Speaker 1: that plays right into his claim that the NYPD is
Speaker 1: on a witch hunt to get him. Finn has the
Speaker 1: idea to call the press like live you still friends
Speaker 1: with that reporter Jimmy Mack and Live goes I am
Speaker 1: and I do owe him a drink. And remember that
Speaker 1: Jimmy Mack is the reporter played by Alec Baldwin, and
Speaker 1: he's only in one other episode. He's referred to in
Speaker 1: this episode, but he only appears in what Don't We
Speaker 1: Hate Him?
Speaker 2: When we meet him in that episode, Jimmy Mack, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like is obnoxious. Yes, he's up to no good. I
Speaker 2: feel like he fucks with the evid or the story
Speaker 2: or like.
Speaker 1: He fucks with the story. But then I think he
Speaker 1: makes right in the end. I think he does something
Speaker 1: at the end to like get Live back on his
Speaker 1: good side. He Jimmy is in the episode called Criminal Stories,
Speaker 1: which is a horrific episode that we've covered, and at
Speaker 1: the end of it he does write how the guy
Speaker 1: that did it did it and then try to pin
Speaker 1: it on his best friend. So he makes up it,
Speaker 1: makes it up to Benson by you know, outing this
Speaker 1: rich guy in the press and everything. Afterwards, and they
Speaker 1: have a toast and he says he's probably going to retire,
Speaker 1: but I guess he doesn't because he's back still working
Speaker 1: for the Ledger in this episode. So Barba's like, do
Speaker 1: not leak this to the press, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: if there are more victims, they think they're all alone,
Speaker 1: and when they find out that there are more of them,
Speaker 1: they're gonna come running. And Barba's like, I'm not hearing this.
Speaker 1: And so now top of act four and the word
Speaker 1: is out. Baby uncle duntist rapist is giving a press
Speaker 1: conference defending himself. His wife is by his side. Carisi goes,
Speaker 1: the wife looks drugged herself. I think that would have
Speaker 1: been a good touch to have Jaya feel a little
Speaker 1: bit more drugged out in the other in the earlier part,
Speaker 1: but maybe it would have been too obvious, and Carisi goes,
Speaker 1: he probably does her high too. Textbooks somnophiliac sleeping beauty syndrome,
Speaker 1: which is disgusting, but a lot of men have this,
Speaker 1: Like a lot of men have no problem just having
Speaker 1: sex with a woman that is completely unresponsive and it's
Speaker 1: very disturbing. Amaro goes, what's the point of that, and
Speaker 1: Finn goes, they don't talk back, and.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know, Finn, I don't love that
Speaker 4: for you.
Speaker 1: In season sixteen, that definitely seems like a season two
Speaker 1: comment of Finn's coming back in, but I guess he's
Speaker 1: explaining why some of these more misogynistic man would do
Speaker 1: something like that. But the dentist's lawyer is a defense attorney,
Speaker 1: Sophia Crane, who she's pictured here in the press conference.
Speaker 1: She's also defended Betty Gilpin, who was famously a teacher
Speaker 1: who had sex with a student, and she goes on
Speaker 1: to defend Gregory Yeats in the day Dream Believer episode Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's squawking about how this says all an NYPD
Speaker 1: tactic to distract from the whole Jerown Jones thing, and
Speaker 1: liv comes in holding a copy of the New York
Speaker 1: Ledger with demon dentist rapes niece on the cover, and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, Jimmy Mack promised to leave the vic's
Speaker 1: name out of it. But whatever the move worked, the
Speaker 1: phones have been ringing. They've got five people calling so
Speaker 1: far claiming to have been victims of the of Neil,
Speaker 1: and Benson wants to wipe the smile off this son
Speaker 1: of a bitch's face. So now all these women are
Speaker 1: in the precinct, they're all telling their stories, were cutting
Speaker 1: towards like among all of them how the dentists assaulted them,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them knew him personally. A lot
Speaker 1: of them he was friends with their parents or he
Speaker 1: was a family friend of some kind. So eleven victims
Speaker 1: total have come forward from the past twenty years, and
Speaker 1: you know, if eleven have come forward that there's probably
Speaker 1: more like fun and fifty. Benson doesn't know if this
Speaker 1: is enough. These are all tough cases, tough to prove,
Speaker 1: especially if Jenna and Marcy refused to testify and lives like,
Speaker 1: let's go talk to Luke the dad. So the dad,
Speaker 1: Luke is at Rikers and he's back on the phone
Speaker 1: through the glass.
Speaker 4: He gets two of these.
Speaker 1: He gets two scenes with the phone glass Lucky and
Speaker 1: he's talking to Finn and Creasy now and he's like, Neil,
Speaker 1: no way, he's paying for my lawyer. He's stood by me.
Speaker 1: And Finn's like, stood by you or set you up?
Speaker 1: He made you like they remind him. They're like, he's
Speaker 1: the one who riled you up about Jerome. He made
Speaker 1: sure that Jenna never talked to us alone and that
Speaker 1: the parents were with her so that she couldn't really
Speaker 1: like say anything that would make her feel uncomfortable. Sent
Speaker 1: her to his therapist to convince her that she'd invented
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Like he's done a lot of shady
Speaker 1: shit to put you in this position. They tell him,
Speaker 1: come on, man, like she remembers details. You know, she's
Speaker 1: a good girl who tells the truth. Plus sweater seamen
Speaker 1: inside this. That's when the dad's face is like fuck
Speaker 1: and he starts freaking out. He's like, I gotta go,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. You gotta get me out of here.
Speaker 1: I have to take care of this, which is more
Speaker 1: of this like macho bullshit of like, yeah, you're actually incarcerated.
Speaker 1: You can't take care of anything. Now talk to your wife.
Speaker 1: They said, could you do that for Jenna. So now
Speaker 1: the mom Marcy is talking to the cops and telling
Speaker 1: them that Luke is on suicide watch. At Rikers, she
Speaker 1: tells them you and now you can kind of tell
Speaker 1: she's moved over to their side because she's like, three
Speaker 1: friends have called me since that story broke to say
Speaker 1: that he molested their daughters. Two of them he groped,
Speaker 1: the third he may have raped, and I referred all
Speaker 1: of them. So now she's finally like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: getting the picture that her brother is a psychotic rapist.
Speaker 1: She's like, I don't want to put Jenna through testifying
Speaker 1: and lives like, okay, so your husband does hard time,
Speaker 1: Jerome is dead, and your brother who's a rapist just
Speaker 1: gets to walk. And Barba is like, I mean, I
Speaker 1: can see about a plea for Luke, but you gotta
Speaker 1: get Jenna to testify. And she's like the sister goes,
Speaker 1: he too smart, you can't catch him, and they're like,
Speaker 1: your daughter can. And now it's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: things on SBU A diner sting. I love when they're
Speaker 1: at a diner. Somehow this dumbass rapist has agreed to
Speaker 1: meet with his niece and accuser at a brightly lit
Speaker 1: diner in the middle of the day.
Speaker 2: I do want to say I recently met someone. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to give any details, but they did a
Speaker 2: They did one of these secret phone things to get
Speaker 2: their abuser, who's surveying.
Speaker 4: He was now serving twenty eight years.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they like got together with a detective who
Speaker 2: believed her, and they put this big thing together and
Speaker 2: she kept him on the phone and got an apology
Speaker 2: out of him without any denial, which means you admit it.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, yeah, holy shit, Yeah, that's fucking nuts. Well
Speaker 2: I'm glad it were I look, it's only legal to conversations.
Speaker 2: But you in my head, I'm like, oh, this is
Speaker 2: a movies thing. This is what they do in the movies.
Speaker 2: But I just recently met someone that had unfortunately a
Speaker 2: really uh fucked fucked up stuff happened in heart.
Speaker 4: But she she's.
Speaker 2: The one that put her abuse, her away with an undercover.
Speaker 1: She got to be I'm glad she got to be
Speaker 1: instrumental and putting his ass away for a long time.
Speaker 1: So the diners thing is happening. The whole gang is
Speaker 1: watching from a van. Finn is at the counter, you know, relaxing,
Speaker 1: eating a piece of pie. Maybe. Jenna tries to get
Speaker 1: her uncle to admit it. He won't, and then she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I heard you paid out some of your other victims,
Speaker 1: and he vaguely is like, I'll take care of you
Speaker 1: and your mom, but like this isn't enough, like this
Speaker 1: isn't enough, like what he's saying, he's being vague about
Speaker 1: his responsibility, and he's about to leave. So Jenna pulls
Speaker 1: out the big one. She's like, I'm late. I think
Speaker 1: I'm pregnant and he's like, you're not pregnant. She's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm late. I'm think I'm bring it.
Speaker 4: She's yelling.
Speaker 1: So he like shoves her back down on the table
Speaker 1: and he's like, I couldn't have gotten you pregnant. I
Speaker 1: had of aseectomy. She's like, so you did it. You
Speaker 1: raped me. And he's like it's not a big deal.
Speaker 1: You're not so special, Jenna, and she goes, I was
Speaker 1: a virgin and she says it over and over and
Speaker 1: he like does not care, and he starts to walk out,
Speaker 1: and then Finn grabs his shoulder, flashes his badge and says,
Speaker 1: I never met a bad man that wasn't afraid of
Speaker 1: a baby. Works every time and put it on a
Speaker 1: fucking T shirt that is so good. Same again, I
Speaker 1: never met a bad man that wasn't afraid of a baby.
Speaker 1: Like the like the things that these men will do
Speaker 1: just to like get a baby out of their life,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that was like kind of a thing on
Speaker 2: TikTok warts Like if you want, like if a man's
Speaker 2: not leaving you alone and you want him to say
Speaker 2: that you need money, yeah, say you want to be
Speaker 2: a housewife.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would love to just and I have
Speaker 1: a really bad shopping problem. So Rollin's and Creasy come in.
Speaker 1: They tell Jenna she did great. So now back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, Jenna tells goes to see her mom and
Speaker 1: she's like, he admitted it, he did it.
Speaker 4: They hug.
Speaker 1: The mom says she's so sorry. Jenna says she's sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm at least glad that these two are on the
Speaker 1: same page now and have each other. Then of course
Speaker 1: they're bringing in Neil at the exact same time, and
Speaker 1: he's a cocky psychopath.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: He's like, you guys have nothing. I was calming down
Speaker 1: a paranoid girl, and they're like cool, and what about
Speaker 1: the other seventeen victims that have come forward. When Jenna's
Speaker 1: mom sees him too, she goes nuts. She runs at him,
Speaker 1: calling him a son of a bitch, which is an
Speaker 1: insult against your mutual mother. But she's like, my daughter,
Speaker 1: how could you? And he's like, Jenna has issue, she
Speaker 1: always has, and it's like I thought she was like
Speaker 1: a good girl, straight a student. Like it's one thing
Speaker 1: in the Natasha Lee Own episode where this guy specifically
Speaker 1: fucking targets her because she is troubled, but in this
Speaker 1: one it's like she has like, now you're really grasping
Speaker 1: at straws, dude. She's like, I'm your sister. How could
Speaker 1: you do this to your own family? Live calms her down.
Speaker 1: Cariese's fingerprinting Neil, saying I should have let her get
Speaker 1: a piece of you.
Speaker 4: Raped her daughter.
Speaker 1: Her husband's in jail for killing a guy that should
Speaker 1: have been you, and Neil goes, you're hurting me.
Speaker 4: I'm a dentist and I need my hands.
Speaker 1: As if he's gonna be doing like a fucking crown
Speaker 1: tomorrow morning. Cariese crunches his fingers k which we never
Speaker 1: see Careese get, like, do any like the Stabler stuff
Speaker 1: where he throws a guy against us of a wall,
Speaker 1: or like you know a little bit of a.
Speaker 4: Neck show got a soft boy. He's a soft boy.
Speaker 1: But he crunches this dentist's fingers and he goes, what
Speaker 1: hurts more this? Or what you did to Jenna? Ooh,
Speaker 1: that'll teach him. Amorrow is talking to Live. Jenna's family
Speaker 1: and Jerome's family are both destroyed. How can either of
Speaker 1: them start over? Live asks and at the courthouse. Barbara
Speaker 1: is meeting with Jerome's mother. He tells her listen, Jerome
Speaker 1: was innocent. He explains what happens and how Luke was
Speaker 1: not trying to murder your son. We have footage of
Speaker 1: him administering CPR, but a jury might let him go
Speaker 1: if we bring him to trial, if he pleads to
Speaker 1: man's he'll do time.
Speaker 4: So it's like, it's so fucked up. Barba's kind of
Speaker 4: asking like, can I give the deal? Like I think?
Speaker 1: And the mom is like, so he gets a deal
Speaker 1: and my innocent son is dead whose life matters to you?
Speaker 1: And Barbara basically says, I'm sorry for your loss, but
Speaker 1: it is what it is. And then that's stick wolf baby.
Speaker 1: It's so it's really it's a really fuck episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that poor mom, she's just like she does.
Speaker 2: Fill as well time she'll be fucking alive, but she
Speaker 2: deserves justice, like what you know, But he's right, a
Speaker 2: jury could side with that man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that he did CPR and he called ie
Speaker 1: one one and he never actually like he never actually
Speaker 1: I wonder how he got him there? How did he
Speaker 1: get him to this like room with the chair and
Speaker 1: the wood violence, nail gun yeah, like so assault at
Speaker 1: the very least. Anyway, I'm sure we have a lot
Speaker 1: of crime to dive into.
Speaker 2: So oh, it's not going to be a good day
Speaker 2: for anyone who wants to be in a good mood.
Speaker 2: We'll dive into it. So two cases I'm focusing on.
Speaker 2: So the first is kind of a vengeance father situation
Speaker 2: and the other is doctors up to no good in
Speaker 2: New York City.
Speaker 4: So that is the two that we'll be doing.
Speaker 2: I know they mentioned the Central Park five kind of
Speaker 2: lawsuit false arrest situation, but there's other episodes that we
Speaker 2: can dive into that case. It's kind of yes, it's
Speaker 2: so big and decades and to be honest, it involves
Speaker 2: her stupid new president, and I didn't want to talk.
Speaker 4: Or think about him more than I have to.
Speaker 2: And he was just such a big part of trying
Speaker 2: to put to death falsely accused young black men. So
Speaker 2: thank god he's in charge of the free world. So
Speaker 2: this is the Gary Planchet case. So Gary Plichet at
Speaker 2: the time, thirty nine years old son is kidnapped for
Speaker 2: ten days. This dad is a heavy equipment salesman and
Speaker 2: the kidnapper is Jeffrey Dasset, twenty five at the time
Speaker 2: of the crime, was a karate instructor who taught Plache's
Speaker 2: three sons. Dosset picked up Jody the Sun at the
Speaker 2: son's eleven years old, at the Planchet home on Sunday morning,
Speaker 2: February nineteenth, nineteen eighty four. He told June the Mom Planchet,
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't okay, I can't take this as
Speaker 2: seriously as they should because their names are out of control.
Speaker 2: But he told June the Mom, like, hey, we're gonna
Speaker 2: come back in fifteen minutes. I just want to show
Speaker 2: the boy some carpet I've been laying. I mean, I'm eleven.
Speaker 2: I don't want to look at carpet being laid. I
Speaker 2: don't under stand this boy. I don't understand this being.
Speaker 1: A good I'm watching cartoons and I gotta go watch
Speaker 1: carpet go down.
Speaker 2: No, but she had little clause to doubt him because
Speaker 2: he was a frequent visitor. He was an ex marine
Speaker 2: who got the boys in shape, and yeah, they love it.
Speaker 2: They loved this Korean style karate. This guy would drive
Speaker 2: them down to tournaments. So Jody the Boy who was
Speaker 2: kidnapped about the Gary was like he's he's all our
Speaker 2: best friend. And that's a quote from the Washington Post.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to use it on any current
Speaker 2: cases or anything post Bezos buying, since it's like the
Speaker 2: dawn of a new era. But I think you know
Speaker 2: any old reporting I can use so But and he
Speaker 2: was a classic pedophile, said Mike Barnett, who is the
Speaker 2: sheriff deputy in this case. His definition to the Washington
Speaker 2: Post of a classic pedophile is they seek out the
Speaker 2: type of situation where they can be involved on a
Speaker 2: frequent basis with kids. But they're different from rapists who
Speaker 2: hate their victims, and that they love their victims, and
Speaker 2: a very concise way to put it.
Speaker 4: I like that it started small.
Speaker 2: First, you ask if any students want to learn to drive,
Speaker 2: and Jodie's hand went up in the air, and he
Speaker 2: remembers like sitting on the teacher's lap and getting touched
Speaker 2: in a.
Speaker 4: Way he didn't like.
Speaker 2: And now he understands his boundaries were getting tested, but
Speaker 2: he didn't say anything at the time. But he would
Speaker 2: let the rest of the kids go to seven to
Speaker 2: eleven for snacks, but hold him back for extra room.
Speaker 2: So Jeffrey faced sexual abuse, you know, wrong side of
Speaker 2: the tracks. Classic kind of situation for a lot of
Speaker 2: criminals that we cover on this. He was one of
Speaker 2: seven and he was molested numerous times as a child,
Speaker 2: though his family would only confirm one incident. But I
Speaker 2: don't know why that's yeah, Okay, Gary moved out of
Speaker 2: the family home when his marriage wasn't working.
Speaker 4: So this is Jody's father.
Speaker 2: So at this time, you know, the Karate lessons are happening.
Speaker 2: He's grooming these kids. He has a focus on Jody.
Speaker 2: The dad and the mom are not The marriage isn't
Speaker 2: going well, so the dad moves out August of nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty three, and that's when this creep starts hanging out
Speaker 2: more and more with June, and then the wife slash
Speaker 2: mom and Dassett do end up having an intimate relationship
Speaker 2: with each other. So oh no, yeah, and her friends
Speaker 2: said to the Washington Post that they understand how she
Speaker 2: came to lean on this younger dude when her separation
Speaker 2: became tense, because she does have all these kids and
Speaker 2: being a MoMA's heart, sometimes you need your back blown out. Okay, So,
Speaker 2: but she was starting to be confused by all the
Speaker 2: time he was obsessed with Jody and not the other kids,
Speaker 2: just Jody all the time. And Jody was obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: Stopped doing basketball, stopped doing football, was just karate all
Speaker 2: the time. So, but this dude was bad on all accounts.
Speaker 2: So he had bad checks, there was fraud. He had
Speaker 2: a ninth great education, he was a dropout, but he
Speaker 2: was trying to fund this karate pedophile passion project of his.
Speaker 2: So because of that, there was a lot of schemes
Speaker 2: that he owed a lot of people money, and so
Speaker 2: there was a warrant out for his arrest because of
Speaker 2: some of his money situations.
Speaker 4: He didn't want to.
Speaker 2: Go to jail because he couldn't see Jody, and so
Speaker 2: he kidnapped him and he went to California. After several
Speaker 2: hours after Dawsett left with her son, June became alarmed finally,
Speaker 2: so she called her brother, she called the deputy sheriff,
Speaker 2: she called a family friend, and then she drove down
Speaker 2: to Port Arthur, where Dassett was from, to help like
Speaker 2: kind of boots on the ground for herself to find
Speaker 2: her son. But they had rode a bus to la
Speaker 2: and on the way, Dawsett shaved his beard and they
Speaker 2: checked into a motel. Four days went by, and she
Speaker 2: finally told Gary on the racquetball court that Jodi was gone,
Speaker 2: and the FBI was alerted. One week after Jody vanished.
Speaker 2: The phone ring and it was a Dassett and he
Speaker 2: warned June against telling anyone he'd called and ordered her
Speaker 2: to bring the other children and their school transcripts and
Speaker 2: let's all meet where the film Hill Street Blues was
Speaker 2: filmed or the show whatever. Wherever they're filming Hill Street
Speaker 2: Blues is where they were staying. And he's like, come
Speaker 2: meet me here if you ever want to see Jody again.
Speaker 2: And this is according to the Washington Post, so I
Speaker 2: guess he was. But the school's transcripts it was funny
Speaker 2: to me where it's like. But he was trying to
Speaker 2: set them up in school after they all ran away,
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand, but she begged this guy. She's like,
Speaker 2: if we don't get Jody back, I can lose custody
Speaker 2: of all my kids, and that carry was threatening her.
Speaker 2: But this was a ruse that was made up by
Speaker 2: the cops. They were like giving her lies to try
Speaker 2: to convince him. She did everything the cops said. She
Speaker 2: played along and they recorded a bunch of the calls.
Speaker 2: They phone trap traced themsel the Samoa Motel in Anaheim, California,
Speaker 2: room thirty eight blocks from Disneyland. So February twenty ninth,
Speaker 2: the FBI agents make their Jody was actually pleading to
Speaker 2: stay with him.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his blonde hair was dyed black so he could
Speaker 2: like pass him off as his son. But Jody flew
Speaker 2: home while Dawsett was indicted for aggravated kidnapping. According to Barnett,
Speaker 2: the sheriff deputy, that outside of the Orange County, California jail,
Speaker 2: he confessed to having sex with Jody and all the
Speaker 2: gory details, along with other children in the Baton rouge
Speaker 2: aia whose parents were then advised that their kids were.
Speaker 1: Also being assaulted.
Speaker 2: So then Barnett tells the dad about the rape, and
Speaker 2: once he heard that, the dad goes to the bar
Speaker 2: with an executive from his job and the dads He
Speaker 2: worked at a radio station WBRZ. The exec called the
Speaker 2: radio station you know, his company, and confirmed to the bartender. Right,
Speaker 2: so he goes, So the execs everyone's at the bar,
Speaker 2: He calls his job. He hangs up and then tells
Speaker 2: the bartender. Yeah, they're they're flying dasset in at nine,
Speaker 2: I know eight. So then the dad overhears this remark
Speaker 2: and goes to the airport. So at the airport he
Speaker 2: gets a cup of coffee, he has a drink at
Speaker 2: the bar. He paces in the lobby, you know, he
Speaker 2: keeps checking flight times. He called a friend from the payphone,
Speaker 2: and that friend did try to warn police, but it
Speaker 2: was too late. So Gary whispered to the phone in
Speaker 2: the row of payphones. Here he comes, you're about to
Speaker 2: hear a shot. The friend heard what happened next, So
Speaker 2: the man is accused of so, you know, raping.
Speaker 4: His son is getting off a.
Speaker 2: Flight in Baton Rouge from Dallas, and they bring this
Speaker 2: criminal cuffed up home, and the dad whirled from the
Speaker 2: bank of payphones and put a thirty eight. I don't
Speaker 2: know what that means, but again to Dossa's head and
Speaker 2: fired once. And that was on Friday night, March sixteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 4: And then he slammed the phone down.
Speaker 2: But because there's all this press there, the shooting was
Speaker 2: viewed by millions on the nightly news. No. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: then the sheriff's deputy tells the Washington Post, and the
Speaker 2: Washington Post is shady throughout it.
Speaker 4: You'll see more.
Speaker 2: They call him beefy, like they have really funny adjectives
Speaker 2: for everybody. But he became the first cop to lose
Speaker 2: a prisoner on TV since Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.
Speaker 4: So wow, that's like a thing. Damn.
Speaker 2: He screamed, son of a bitch, Why Gary, why'd you
Speaker 2: do it? And that's according to the Washington Post. He
Speaker 2: leaped at the dad, disarmed his old friend who he's
Speaker 2: known and whose son he helped track to California. The
Speaker 2: next day, Jeff Dawst died and the dad, Planchet, was
Speaker 2: charged with seconds agree murder. He got out the next
Speaker 2: day on one hundred thousand dollars bond that was posted
Speaker 2: by a friend. His lawyer, Foster Foxy Sanders, committed him
Speaker 2: to a psych ward to portray him as a distraught
Speaker 2: father who believed his son had been sexually abused. Foxy
Speaker 2: believed that the shooting was a justifiable homicide and that
Speaker 2: Pluchet's deep depressed depression was caused by the belief that
Speaker 2: Jody was made into a sex object by the backwater
Speaker 2: Bruce Lee.
Speaker 4: He idolized again from.
Speaker 2: The Washington Post like they are shady shady. March twenty eighth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, the district Attorney Aussie Brown chose not
Speaker 2: to seek an indictment, and it was from the same
Speaker 2: grand jury that indicted Ducet for the kidnapping. But a
Speaker 2: lot of the hate was because Ducet was gay, So
Speaker 2: it's kind of fucked up. Like a woman who was
Speaker 2: a bartender at the airport heard the shot and she's
Speaker 2: quoted in the Washington Post going, if the man was
Speaker 2: a homo, he got what he deserved.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Like okay, Linda cool quote.
Speaker 1: When did the mom realize, like because the mom was
Speaker 1: like in a relationship with him, Like when did she realize,
Speaker 1: like just after the kidnapped, like when he did she realize, like,
Speaker 1: oh fuck, this guy was just using me to get
Speaker 1: to my son.
Speaker 2: I really none of the stuff I went into went
Speaker 2: into like her kind of journey. Yeah, but she was
Speaker 2: suspicious like eventually that he didn't care about the other
Speaker 2: kids and it was all about Jodi, and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because it's like it reminds me a little bit of
Speaker 1: kidnapped and plain Sight, which he covered on this pod
Speaker 1: and like, you know, just in that situation, the guy
Speaker 1: starts a relationship with the mom and the dad to
Speaker 1: try to get to the kid, But here it's just
Speaker 1: the mom.
Speaker 2: August twenty ninth, nineteen eighty five, Fluche was given a
Speaker 2: suspended prison term and sentenced to five years probation. Judge
Speaker 2: Frank Siah of the State District Court also sentenced to
Speaker 2: undergo treatment for substance abuse and performed three hundred hours
Speaker 2: of community service work. But he was no threat to
Speaker 2: the community, according to ESPN, which covered this case. So
Speaker 2: this is the first time I think ESPN has been
Speaker 2: a source for us.
Speaker 1: But yeah.
Speaker 2: The New Zealand Herald did a piece on this case
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, stating that even though the public
Speaker 2: supported the dad's killing of the pedophile, his own son, Jodi,
Speaker 2: did not agree with his actions. He did not agree
Speaker 2: with those who think of his dad as a hero.
Speaker 2: And he's quoted in this New Zealand paper is I
Speaker 2: think for a lot of people who have not been
Speaker 2: satisfied by the American justice system, my dad stands as
Speaker 2: a symbol of justice. My dad did what everybody says
Speaker 2: what they would do, yet only few have done it,
Speaker 2: plus he didn't go to jail. That said, I cannot
Speaker 2: and will not condone his behavior. I understand why he
Speaker 2: did what he did, but it is more important for
Speaker 2: a parent to be there to help support their child,
Speaker 2: not put themselves in a place to be prosecuted. He said,
Speaker 2: I mean, he said, I didn't want him dead. I
Speaker 2: just wanted him to stop. Yeah, Jody now helps parents
Speaker 2: help prevent situations like this, so you know, he goes,
Speaker 2: if you tell a kid that rape or assault or
Speaker 2: not being pure hurts a child's soul, they might not
Speaker 2: want to tell anybody that they were molested because they
Speaker 2: don't want their soul to die. And that's how he felt.
Speaker 2: And his dad was extreme and always said like I'd
Speaker 2: kill anybody that touched my kids, and because of that,
Speaker 2: he didn't tell him because he knew that the dad
Speaker 2: wasn't kidding. So that's just like a couple good advice
Speaker 2: from like a kid that was molested that I don't
Speaker 2: know if we've really heard on this podcast. And then
Speaker 2: June the mom is quoted again an ESPN I can't
Speaker 2: say it with a straight face, in response to her
Speaker 2: son saying it's bad to take a life, she goes,
Speaker 2: are you kidding? Do you know how many kids weren't molested?
Speaker 2: Because he's no longer on this earth. So but yeah,
Speaker 2: the guy got caught, he would have gone to jail.
Speaker 2: So I don't know. Gary died in twenty fourteen from
Speaker 2: a stroke, but always maintained he would have killed the
Speaker 2: man who abused his son.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 2: And I mean, the video and photos exist. This was life,
Speaker 2: so if you want to watch it, you can't. Whoa crazy,
Speaker 2: Yeah that's crazy. I mean, like I like what Jody
Speaker 2: says there.
Speaker 1: It's like it is very It's like we were saying
Speaker 1: about the character in the episode. It's very male centered,
Speaker 1: and you're centering yourself to be like, I have to
Speaker 1: go avenge this thing that happened to my kid. It's
Speaker 1: like your kid probably just wants to be like comforted
Speaker 1: by their parent and not lose their parent to jail
Speaker 1: or you know, death or whatever. Like you could just
Speaker 1: make them the center of this. You know, if your
Speaker 1: kid says, Dad, go kill that guy, that's a different story.
Speaker 1: Maybe then you feel like you've got to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, this will be rage and do thing for everyone,
Speaker 2: So buckle up and you might know about this for
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 4: The Robert hadd In case.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so New York City most prolific predator in
Speaker 2: New York history, according to Forbes, again a source I
Speaker 2: don't think we've used before.
Speaker 4: This is really uh wild, Sobes.
Speaker 2: This happened at columb University. The guynecologists that work there's
Speaker 2: accused of sexually abusing more than two hundred patients over
Speaker 2: the course of decades. And that is an underestimated number.
Speaker 2: It's closer to five hundred. And then because on any
Speaker 2: given day, this motherfucker would see twenty five to forty patients.
Speaker 2: Several said he would see uh, he would make it
Speaker 2: seem like the exam was over and then like would
Speaker 2: turn around and just after the nurse would leave the
Speaker 2: room and set and would go, oh, I need to
Speaker 2: just check one more thing.
Speaker 4: And that's when the assaults would happen.
Speaker 2: So a former patient said, in that moment, her thought was, oh, no,
Speaker 2: something must be wrong. And so the fear, you know,
Speaker 2: you have fear for your baby. It's obgyn, you have
Speaker 2: fear for what's going on. You know, the doctor is like, wait, fuck,
Speaker 2: one more thing. So he really took advantage of vulnerable
Speaker 2: patients who are scared of so many things going right
Speaker 2: or wrong. And it's a new time. Like you it's
Speaker 2: your first time being pregnant. It's like crazier for your
Speaker 2: first time at a gaynocologist's office. Like we don't really
Speaker 2: talk about what's appropriate or not or what needs to happen.
Speaker 4: And you know, predators are really smart with who they pick.
Speaker 2: So one patient said, like her concern for her new
Speaker 2: baby twins led her to overlook Hadden's red flags, but
Speaker 2: he was groping her after she gave birth to the twins.
Speaker 2: In these moments, he would insert his tongue or unglum
Speaker 2: fingers into women. He would fondle breasts for several minutes
Speaker 2: under the guise of an exam, but it wasn't. And
Speaker 2: this guy is fucking sick, Like he he molested miners
Speaker 2: whom years earlier he had delivered as babies.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, so he.
Speaker 2: Delivered a girl and then when she was sixteen he
Speaker 2: assaulted her.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's horrific. Yeah, I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my faces, I am.
Speaker 4: I've read about this. I just like, oh, yeah, it's
Speaker 4: it's wild.
Speaker 2: How many unpressed it in quotes, unpressed it at a
Speaker 2: most terrific wild caseys. We keep finding new like yeah,
Speaker 2: because I didn't know about this. So he was a
Speaker 2: practicing doctor from nineteen eighty seven to twenty twelve, when
Speaker 2: that's when accusations like really started going in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: But like usual, like most cases, people had been making
Speaker 2: complaints for decades. So Columbia New Columbia aided this man,
Speaker 2: helped this man, and fucked with the investigation of this man.
Speaker 4: Fuck Columbia University. Fuck you.
Speaker 2: So one victim i'll highlight from a pro public a
Speaker 2: piece is Lorie Kenyak And she was thirty eight at
Speaker 2: the time, and on June twenty ninth, twenty twelve, while
Speaker 2: at her doctor's office, texted her boyfriend doctor hadn't just
Speaker 2: licked my vagina. I'm shaking and freaked out. So she'd
Speaker 2: already suffered a miscarriage. She had recently undergone a spinal
Speaker 2: treatment and she was just very extra scared that it
Speaker 2: would inc used the risk of birth defects. So when
Speaker 2: she got with a doctor at such a distinguished institution,
Speaker 2: she was feeling grateful.
Speaker 4: There were a few.
Speaker 2: Appointments she dismissed because she was just focused.
Speaker 4: On her baby.
Speaker 2: She did hear him moan He was very forceful. One
Speaker 2: time he was so forceful with his fingers that lifted
Speaker 2: her from the table.
Speaker 4: She said, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And then six weeks after giving birth to her uh,
Speaker 2: to her daughter, on a late Friday, like I said,
Speaker 2: June twelfth, she this is when this happened. So she
Speaker 2: froze because he looked her vagina and texted her boyfriend
Speaker 2: and then he rushed there and called the cops, and
Speaker 2: the cops came over to their house. So like he
Speaker 2: picked her up, they would go to the house. Haddn't
Speaker 2: then called the house and so the cops were at
Speaker 2: their apartment while they're listening to this voicemail from the doctor,
Speaker 2: and the voicemail was like, oh, misunderstanding. The cops are
Speaker 2: calling them off him like whatever, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, and
Speaker 2: the NYPD who's there, said fuck him, let's go get
Speaker 2: this pig.
Speaker 4: So oh, kind of cool. We don't really expect that
Speaker 4: from the NYPD.
Speaker 2: And you can listen to the full voicemail in pro
Speaker 2: publica if you want, and the resources, as always are
Speaker 2: in our show notes. When he was arrested, Columbia found
Speaker 2: him a lawyer.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He was arrested that night, but was released on a Monday,
Speaker 2: so that was a Friday. He was released on Monday.
Speaker 2: He received a letter from Columbia handwritten that just said, hey,
Speaker 2: if you are with a chaperone in the room with patients,
Speaker 2: you're all good and you can resume clinical activities. So
Speaker 2: the document was signed by his immediate supervisor and he
Speaker 2: succeed The president of the New York Presbyterian, which is
Speaker 2: a hospital. The Columbia Affiliated Hospital System, where he was
Speaker 2: an attending doctor, also cc to the email. The dean
Speaker 2: of Columbia's medical school, where he was a member of
Speaker 2: the faculty back on work on Tuesday.
Speaker 4: They let him practice for.
Speaker 2: Five more weeks, during which eight patients said they were
Speaker 2: assaulted by him.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: One of the patients, on his first day back, wrote
Speaker 2: a victim impact statement pro publica that said Robert Hadden
Speaker 2: was actually permitted to return to his medical office and
Speaker 2: sexually assault me just four days after being arrested for
Speaker 2: licking up patience genitals.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Columbia during this time failed to hand over evidence in
Speaker 2: its possession. Despite subpenis. The university did not tell the
Speaker 2: DA when more patients came forward.
Speaker 4: Finally, five weeks.
Speaker 2: After this initial arrest, they suspended him because he would
Speaker 2: not cooperate with the internal investigation. Then he took a
Speaker 2: leave of absence in September, and at the end of
Speaker 2: the year the university didn't renew his appointment, so he
Speaker 2: retired and got to just live with his wife in Jersey, Okay. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: the Manhattan DA's opened an investigation into this creek. Lauren
Speaker 2: Mildendorff as a prosecutor grown up in a family of
Speaker 2: and she volunteered to take the case, but it was
Speaker 2: eventually shelved in twenty thirteen, and Kean Yak was like, fuck,
Speaker 2: let's just do a civil suit. I hate this guy.
Speaker 2: He shouldn't be practicing medicine. And in April twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: the New York Daily News published a short item on
Speaker 2: the lawsuit, and then in July a bigger story appeared
Speaker 2: with a large photo of him and the headline that said,
Speaker 2: Guyino is Sickoh. Because of this article, women started coming forward.
Speaker 2: By June twenty fourteenth, Millendorff had gathered enough to indict.
Speaker 2: He was charged with five felonies and formist demeanors involving
Speaker 2: six women for almost two years she built her case.
Speaker 2: He was convicted of multiple sexual assault charges in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: but did not serve jail time. He pled guilty in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen to two New York State charges of criminal
Speaker 2: sex act in the third degree and forcible touching. Not
Speaker 2: one day in jail because Cyrus Vance Junior, the DA
Speaker 2: at the time time, said if Columbia had fully cooperated
Speaker 2: and might have made a difference in his office's decision
Speaker 2: to accept a plea. But this motherfucker was part of
Speaker 2: the problem too. It's even sicker than that. So just
Speaker 2: like the in SVU Sexual not our department when we
Speaker 2: watched the show, But like it's usually an issue with
Speaker 2: the bosses and the McGraths, and like the friend Thompson's
Speaker 2: in the SVU universe, where they only want to take
Speaker 2: sex crimes that they could win. You know, it's about winning,
Speaker 2: and they don't want to take cases to court they
Speaker 2: can't win, so they didn't. They just wanted to put
Speaker 2: this case to bed. So Hadden's attorney, this guy Kershner,
Speaker 2: came to the DA's office February twenty sixteen, and she
Speaker 2: had worked at this office, so she had connects. She
Speaker 2: was close to Vance and she asked to like, she
Speaker 2: was so close to the DA she asked him.
Speaker 4: To preside over her wedding. Oh my god. So they
Speaker 4: had a meeting. That's when the deal was agreed to.
Speaker 2: Millendorf was not at the meeting and was told to
Speaker 2: tell the victims that this was a win and that
Speaker 2: she was she's devastated. More than two hundred of his
Speaker 2: former patient than end up settling lawsuits against Columbia University,
Speaker 2: reaching agreements more than two hundred and thirty million dollars,
Speaker 2: and the exact figures ranged between sources. But oh yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of hundreds of millions of dollars. Columbia, though
Speaker 2: admitted no fault and placing the blame solely on the doctor,
Speaker 2: even though their own records show that women repeatedly trying
Speaker 2: to warn Columbia doctors and staff about had him. They
Speaker 2: had concerns in writing, and they allowed him to continue practicing.
Speaker 2: Their interviews in pro Pluboka wonders forgot her stethoscope, stepped back,
Speaker 2: saw something fucked that sent in quote shock waves all
Speaker 2: over her body. But she didn't say anything because she
Speaker 2: didn't think her word had any weight against a doctor,
Speaker 2: and she was right. A nurse for work there from
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety later testified she saw hat and move his
Speaker 2: fingers sexually around the lady of a woman in labor every.
Speaker 4: Time he checked for surve dilation.
Speaker 2: But on the stand, she said, historically there's always been
Speaker 2: a hierarchy between physicians and nurses, and she felt like
Speaker 2: she didn't have a voice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like what happened with doctor death, Like
Speaker 1: if you like that, Like eventually I think a nurse
Speaker 1: did try to bring him down, but like no one
Speaker 1: listened to her forever. She filed so many complaints, like
Speaker 1: this guy's fucking killing.
Speaker 2: People, and I forgot we did a whole other one
Speaker 2: where it was like a pedophile doctor for decades, like Massachusetts, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: in one of these East coast states. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 2: fuck the school, obviously, Columbia administrators, nurses, other doctors worked there.
Speaker 2: They covered up this fucking abuse. Anthony Dpatrow, the attorney
Speaker 2: representing the victims in the civil suit, claimed that the
Speaker 2: university staff knew about the allegations against Haddan as early
Speaker 2: as nineteen ninety four. A complaint was sent to the
Speaker 2: acting chair of obstetrics and guy in acology department claimed
Speaker 2: that he was abusing patients. They chose to conceal his
Speaker 2: crimes and gaslight his patients, which enabled this man's behavior
Speaker 2: and so a lot of the payouts by the school.
Speaker 2: But this dude got no jail time and it's not
Speaker 2: like his personal bankup.
Speaker 4: Why would they do. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: And he was in the age that he would ever
Speaker 2: retired anyways, he was like in his sixties, so he
Speaker 2: was classified as the lowest level of sex offender status
Speaker 2: after this, like Sivance deal, he decided to do, which
Speaker 2: means he was not listed in New York States online
Speaker 2: Sexual offender registry either. So he did agree to for
Speaker 2: pa his medical license, but that means prosecutors dropped all
Speaker 2: other charges and agreed not to pursuit cases related to
Speaker 2: other alleged victims. In twenty twenty, this case got kicked
Speaker 2: back up when Evelyn Yang, whose husband Andrew Yang was
Speaker 2: running for president, mentioned this case in an interview and
Speaker 2: being abused by him, and she was one of the
Speaker 2: people that came forward for the first time around case
Speaker 2: that went nowhere.
Speaker 4: But she was a Jane Doe who but because of her.
Speaker 2: Forty women came forward right away during this It was
Speaker 2: really fucked up. She was a Jane Doe, and they
Speaker 2: pushed and they tried to make her come forward. She
Speaker 2: came forward about this case, and then all they fucked up.
Speaker 4: All these women came forward.
Speaker 2: Weeks after that, Manhattan District Attorney's office announced and assigned
Speaker 2: prosecutors to open this case back up. During this trial,
Speaker 2: there was credible evidence relating to forty victims. Prosecutors asked
Speaker 2: for twenty five years and the defense argued.
Speaker 4: For three years. Are you kidding?
Speaker 2: The case was based around four women though that he
Speaker 2: enticed and induced the four women to travel to New
Speaker 2: York is in the New York based office where he
Speaker 2: sexually abused them. So because of the moving of state
Speaker 2: lines he had he had patients come from Pennsylvania and
Speaker 2: stuff that adds to federal charges. So his defense claimed
Speaker 2: that he was innocent and that they just fought over
Speaker 2: the fact that prosecution could not prove that the women
Speaker 2: were lured across state lines for their abuse, but that
Speaker 2: they chose to make appointments with him. But yeah, Dedra
Speaker 2: von Durnham in quotes for to CBS News, this is
Speaker 2: his lawyer wrote, cancel him, condemn him, do not convict
Speaker 2: him of a crime he did not commit. And she
Speaker 2: said this during the trial, like okay, Ddre, you're a bitch.
Speaker 2: Her other argument was end quote, he never intended to
Speaker 2: abuse his victims. Rather, it was a spur of the
Speaker 2: moment that was uh tavy.
Speaker 1: So there's no intent, okay, But I think if you
Speaker 1: do it two hundred times, there's intent there, babe.
Speaker 4: That's not spur of the moment. That's fuck. This is
Speaker 4: so fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kannak she's who kicked this off in twenty twelve
Speaker 2: and her and her boyfriend called the police January twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three. She sat in the witness box and when
Speaker 2: she first went to police, her daughter was six weeks old.
Speaker 2: Now she's ten. She's ten at this time. That's how
Speaker 2: long this fucking took for this. She's Bastepoliet justice. There
Speaker 2: was a two week trial and after being found guilty,
Speaker 2: they sent him home to be with his wife and son,
Speaker 2: and one victim from the back stood up, very s
Speaker 2: of you and said, oh, so he's a sexual abuser,
Speaker 2: but we're letting him go home. So then one week
Speaker 2: later they overturned that, and he was ordered to be detained.
Speaker 2: US marshals approached him and arrested his ass His first
Speaker 2: night behind bars, ever, was February first, So then finally
Speaker 2: on July twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, he was sentenced
Speaker 2: to twenty years in federal prison.
Speaker 4: The judge in this I know, God.
Speaker 2: The judge in the case, Richard Berman, said, this is
Speaker 2: a horrific case and like no other. But I'm sorry
Speaker 2: doing this podcast. It's like a lot of others. We
Speaker 2: need to stop acting shocked. Stop acting shocked every time
Speaker 2: this happens. Normal ask people commit these crimes all the time.
Speaker 2: Stop it unprecedented. No, it's not. Stop because it makes victims.
Speaker 2: It makes it scarier to come forward when you act
Speaker 2: like it's not happening all the time, because it fucking is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the staff knew. I mean, fuck Columbia, like I can't.
Speaker 1: You know, my brother went to medical school there and
Speaker 1: my mother went to My mother did nursing se No.
Speaker 2: It's known as a good school. I mean that's the thing.
Speaker 2: A lot of these patients were like thrilled to be
Speaker 2: in such an amazing institution.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was sixty six at the time of sentence.
Speaker 2: And the judge said that once he gets out, he
Speaker 2: will face the lifetime of supervision after his release as well,
Speaker 2: but hopefully he dies in prison on his last day
Speaker 2: after being given for sentences of the twenty years, but
Speaker 2: they're going to be served concurrently, he said, between sobs
Speaker 2: to the judge, hold your tears, bitch, But he says,
Speaker 2: I'm very sorry for all the pain I have caused.
Speaker 4: Fuck you. That's from pro public up.
Speaker 2: And I just want to say personally, thank God for
Speaker 2: the bravery of the victims that came forward, and because
Speaker 2: of them they were able to get rid of this guy.
Speaker 2: You know, the school did not care about getting rid
Speaker 2: of the serial sexual predator, and the institution was unable
Speaker 2: to do so. And it's because of these fucking patients
Speaker 2: and because of these brave people that he was able
Speaker 2: to He's.
Speaker 1: I mean, they acted the same way as the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church does or anybody that just like moves somebody around
Speaker 1: or denies.
Speaker 4: It or make it strike a religion. These are conked
Speaker 4: out people that are like the Lord, what is this.
Speaker 1: I know, with an institution of higher education, you're like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Like that's horrific, because if your whole thing is it's
Speaker 2: not on us. We're not taking responsibility. It's all him.
Speaker 2: Then why cover up for him? If he has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with institution, You're like, yeah, it's bogus. He
Speaker 2: still denies all allegations and charges beyond the two that
Speaker 2: he pled guilty for, and even with the school's apologies,
Speaker 2: Evel and Yang had had this to say some Forbes,
Speaker 2: there's no ownership of the university's past and ongoing failures.
Speaker 2: The apology comes from a place of self preservation and
Speaker 2: does not acknowledge that Colombia enabled and protected Hadden's abuse.
Speaker 2: Well actually, at one point embarks on a campaign to
Speaker 2: foreseeing I mentioned this earlier to reveal her identity when
Speaker 2: she first came forward. Pro Publica says that they were
Speaker 2: deeply involved in containing, deflecting, and distancing itself from the
Speaker 2: scandal at every step. Pro Publica also is like, there
Speaker 2: isn't even anything special about this guy that would make
Speaker 2: Columbia want to protect him. It's very confusing. He was
Speaker 2: not a prompt, he was not prominent with a bunch
Speaker 2: of elite clients. That wasn't him. He wasn't attracting millions
Speaker 2: in research dollars or in demands on the academic late
Speaker 2: lecture circuit. He was just one of dozens of doctors,
Speaker 2: outwardly unremarkable. And that's what we see, and that's what
Speaker 2: that's what this past selection represents so much, and that's
Speaker 2: why it's so heartbreaking to be a woman, like, hundreds
Speaker 2: of women were fucking molested by this guy, unremarkable, one
Speaker 2: of a dozen doctors. No one gives a shit, No
Speaker 2: one asked him to speak, he didn't do research, he
Speaker 2: wasn't special. Celebrities didn't go to it, nothing, But they
Speaker 2: were willing to protect this fucking creep fell In rapist monster,
Speaker 2: let him go home to his wife after being found guilty,
Speaker 2: not serve jail time. So at the expense of hundreds
Speaker 2: of women, and that is what the selection is to,
Speaker 2: at the expense of minority communities like immigrants that are here,
Speaker 2: women like all like upstanding fucking citizens no matter what
Speaker 2: we do, a fucking fellon rapist as president.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and this guy, this guy hadn't seems like
Speaker 1: he probably went into this profession on purpose.
Speaker 2: I would never go to a man. I would never
Speaker 2: go to a man.
Speaker 4: I never.
Speaker 1: Gone to a man. I would never I've never gone
Speaker 1: to a man fucking freak in my life. I just
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel comfortable with it. But you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure people are gonna write this and go, my
Speaker 1: dad's are going to collegists and he's.
Speaker 4: I'm sure he's a fucking creep.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm almost done, so yeah, But it's just
Speaker 2: it's all the same. It's just like we protect gross
Speaker 2: ass men all the time and push them up and
Speaker 2: let them do whatever, and women are not listened to,
Speaker 2: trusted like I can't imagine. And in sick rapist statistics
Speaker 2: that the number of survivors in this case is about
Speaker 2: equal to those of Larry Nasser, the you know, the
Speaker 2: fucking gymnast doctor at Michigan State University, so the numbers
Speaker 2: are very similar. Hadn't all together had an abuse at
Speaker 2: least two hundred and forty five and then additional three
Speaker 2: hundred and one victims filed for the final lawsuit and
Speaker 2: the pro problem and the pro public article links in
Speaker 2: the show notes had dozens of people who I mean,
Speaker 2: I would have been talking for another fuck an hour
Speaker 2: and a half, like dozens of people who called. There
Speaker 2: is so much personal stuff in this piece, and they
Speaker 2: really dug deep and interviewed so many victims. Yeah, dozens
Speaker 2: of people who called made complaints, told receptionists, told referring doctors,
Speaker 2: social workers at the hospital were told about this man.
Speaker 4: So many people came forward.
Speaker 2: So when we tell victims, come forward, come forward, it's
Speaker 2: not about them coming forward. It's about training and getting
Speaker 2: into people's heads what to do when someone comes forward.
Speaker 2: And we're like pushing these victims to do these brave,
Speaker 2: huge things and come forward.
Speaker 4: And then everyone failed them.
Speaker 1: Everyone and colleges and universities all the time are like
Speaker 1: fucking trying to hide their own bottom line. You know
Speaker 1: what's crazy too, is like that's so interesting what you're
Speaker 1: saying about him. This guy was like not special. It's
Speaker 1: like in the episode that's almost so unbelievable that they
Speaker 1: try to make him more special in the episode. Like
Speaker 1: in the episode, he's a dentist, and he's not only
Speaker 1: a dentist, but he's builds all these churches or builds
Speaker 1: builds dental practices in third world countries, and he's big
Speaker 1: on the charity circuit and he works with the NYPD.
Speaker 1: Like they had to make him special in the episode
Speaker 1: because it's more believable why there would be cover up
Speaker 1: for him, you know, like, why are you covering up
Speaker 1: for this mediocre fucking dude? I guess Columbia. Do you
Speaker 1: think that they figure, well, if he's if it's not true,
Speaker 1: and they if it's if he's innocent, we're not going
Speaker 1: to pay out all this money or whatever. And even
Speaker 1: if he did do it, but they can't prove it,
Speaker 1: then we don't have to pay out the money. Like,
Speaker 1: are they like literally trying to hide the money, because
Speaker 1: if they had just given the cops what they wanted,
Speaker 1: that these people probably still would have sued Columbia. So
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what Columbia is, like, what are they
Speaker 1: why would they impede this investigation?
Speaker 2: I mean, but how many episodes the best view have
Speaker 2: we seen where it's like very confusing where they would
Speaker 2: rather just like protect the frat or protect whatever dude. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think it's just what is it like the
Speaker 2: unconscious bias of it all too where we're like trained
Speaker 2: to be like are you sure she wasn't trying? I
Speaker 2: don't know, did he realize I don't there was a
Speaker 2: nurse there. He wouldn't have fingered her, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I have no idea. No, but like a lot of
Speaker 2: the women in this piece that I was reading, like
Speaker 2: told the receptionist or like one woman used to work there, laughs,
Speaker 2: came back to him, went to and then all the
Speaker 2: receptionists were like, yeah, we know he's a creep They
Speaker 2: all knew, Like they talked openly about what a creepy
Speaker 2: was at the office. The receptionist knowingly told women that
Speaker 2: complained like, oh yeah, sorry about that, don't come back
Speaker 2: to him. Other people like nurses would tell women like,
Speaker 2: don't come back Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I don't know. I'm lady all the
Speaker 1: way when it comes to that. But we've got a
Speaker 1: great interview coming up too. Hopefully you're so defeated down,
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Okay today's guest, Wow, what again?
Speaker 1: I was so excited to talk to him. He is
Speaker 1: a prolific character actor who was most recently on the
Speaker 1: Netflix show Wednesday Two Wednesday Actors in a Row. On
Speaker 1: the pod, he played Sheriff Donovan Galpin. He's also on
Speaker 1: mostly shows I've watched, Bloodline, Sons of Anarchy as well
Speaker 1: as Southland. You know him today as the manipulated father
Speaker 1: Luke Davis. Please enjoy our conversation with the very talented
Speaker 1: Jamie McShane.
Speaker 4: Well, you won't believe it.
Speaker 2: We the interview we did before you was Ricky Lindholme, No, kiddy,
Speaker 2: I know you can't believe it.
Speaker 6: Was that today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just an hour or so ago. Yeah, and she
Speaker 1: loves you. We were She was saying you're the best,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh.
Speaker 6: My god, she's better.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we heard about Romania.
Speaker 6: Oh good lord. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: It was neat because it was pretty much Ricky and
Speaker 5: Hunter and I kind of had each other's backs. And
Speaker 5: then and Tommy Tomy l Jenkins when he was there.
Speaker 6: But it was yeah, Ricky and I got very close
Speaker 6: Hunter as well.
Speaker 4: I mean, you've been working for so long, so many
Speaker 4: cool things.
Speaker 2: It was the Romania, the wildest location or have you
Speaker 2: shot in more?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Romania was pretty well, it's the longest I've ever
Speaker 5: been anywhere, and it's the farthest away pretty much when
Speaker 5: you look at the globe, you know, as far from
Speaker 5: Los Angeles as you can get.
Speaker 6: I did shoot.
Speaker 5: I did a little independent film in twenty seventeen called
Speaker 5: Busman's Holiday, and we literally had a crew of like,
Speaker 5: there were just four of us total, me included, so
Speaker 5: there was a crew of two guys plus the my
Speaker 5: friend who wrote, directed, produced, did every department essentially hair
Speaker 5: and makeup, wardrobe.
Speaker 6: But we went.
Speaker 5: Around the world in the month of May, and we
Speaker 5: were in each place for like a week, couple of days,
Speaker 5: I guess a couple of days.
Speaker 6: But it was.
Speaker 5: Ireland, Norway, Italy, Mumbai, India, Sansabar, Africa, and then Sydney,
Speaker 5: Australia and a little north.
Speaker 6: So Zanzibar was prett Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well you did that all in a month.
Speaker 6: Yeah, all in the month of May in twenty seventeen. Wow,
Speaker 6: it was pretty wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is it kind of sounds like an SVU.
Speaker 1: The log line, a disillusioned cop is forced out of
Speaker 1: retirement to find a troubled teenage girl who vanished on
Speaker 1: a trip across the world.
Speaker 6: Sounds maybe it was this for you and I got
Speaker 6: very confused.
Speaker 1: Could be an SVU. Yeah, Sbu has never gone to Zanzibar,
Speaker 1: but they.
Speaker 4: Have gone to Romania. They have isn't that where he goes?
Speaker 4: They go to frog Prog.
Speaker 1: Yes, they go to frog Zeck Republic.
Speaker 6: Yeah, pretty pretty close.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this episode was hard to watch. We've
Speaker 2: we've wanted to talk to you, we wanted to do
Speaker 2: this episode, but we were kind of avoiding it.
Speaker 4: It's pretty heartbreaking.
Speaker 6: Yeah, decaying reality was tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with the boy and then him die, it really
Speaker 2: is a tough episode.
Speaker 6: Yeah. The writing on this.
Speaker 5: Is really good, Like they bring up such topical points
Speaker 5: and really kind of somehow fleshed them out within the
Speaker 5: confines of their time period, and it's just been very interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was.
Speaker 1: I thought it was like also very sub like you
Speaker 1: portrayed it like in a great way, but it was
Speaker 1: very subtle about how like this man felt like he
Speaker 1: had to do like be a vigilante and like defend
Speaker 1: his daughter and go after the truth, the truth and
Speaker 1: everything when and didn't know the facts.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's like it's.
Speaker 1: Uh, you could you sympathize a lot with this character
Speaker 1: because you made him really like emotionally accessible. I feel like,
Speaker 1: but you're kind of like, dude, if you had just
Speaker 1: let the cops do their job for like one more day,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have we would have, you know, you.
Speaker 5: I know, I am I am a I am a
Speaker 5: parent and that sort of I don't know, being just
Speaker 5: that sort of anger and that like someone hurt my kids,
Speaker 5: someone did something like you freaking kidd me, And you
Speaker 5: guys aren't doing anything about it right this second?
Speaker 6: Are you? And we know who it is?
Speaker 4: Yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 6: No one's doing anything. It's kind of that response.
Speaker 2: And your character is being manipulated by this uncle too,
Speaker 2: Like who knows if it was a normal person talked
Speaker 2: you down for a day. You know he wanted just
Speaker 2: like willing to ruin your fucking life too, bastard.
Speaker 1: So like, what I think was so crazy is like
Speaker 1: you you've only you've done two episodes of s you
Speaker 1: you're such you're so prolific. I was expecting when I
Speaker 1: went to your IMDb to see you've done criminal intent,
Speaker 1: you've done regular law in order to but like, you
Speaker 1: haven't done those. You're just an SVU guy. When uh,
Speaker 1: when it when it uh came to you, were you
Speaker 1: like I only want us fine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you were like geez taking long wolf.
Speaker 6: No no, no, no.
Speaker 5: Actually, early one of my first jobs after I got
Speaker 5: my SAG card in like nineteen ninety was I did
Speaker 5: extra work on the original Law and Order whoa And
Speaker 5: I did stand in WHEK. I did extra work a
Speaker 5: couple episodes stand in work, like in that courthouse that
Speaker 5: was like twenty five years before I booked this first SVU,
Speaker 5: like nineteen ninety.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 5: So when they came to me the first one was
Speaker 5: like in twenty fifteen, I think, well that was this
Speaker 5: one to King More. Yeah, I was just you know,
Speaker 5: it was just wonderful. They came up to me with
Speaker 5: just an offer and hey, we want you to do this,
Speaker 5: and we really like your stuff. And you know, last
Speaker 5: time I was there, I was doing extra work in
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety So it was thrilling for me.
Speaker 4: What a full circle moment? Wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and especially this episode there was there was a
Speaker 5: scene we'll talk about later that had a whole thing
Speaker 5: about full circle about my life and career that was
Speaker 5: kind of blew me away.
Speaker 4: You could just tell us, tell us, oh.
Speaker 5: So the scene where I where I hurt Jerome, you
Speaker 5: know with the nail gun, you know, in that apartment
Speaker 5: that's being fixed up.
Speaker 6: So they originally so you had a location for that.
Speaker 5: We were going to shoot in some apartment that there
Speaker 5: was work being done on and they lost the location
Speaker 5: last minute. So we wound up shooting at the stages,
Speaker 5: and we shot those stages are connected to hockey rinks,
Speaker 5: like there's you know, I forget what. There's like a
Speaker 5: whole sports complaints there. Just thank you, Chelsea Piers. So
Speaker 5: we were on the way back of the stages. And
Speaker 5: I grew up playing hockey like I played hockey as
Speaker 5: a kid, and I thought I was going to play
Speaker 5: hockey in you.
Speaker 6: Know, college and pro and blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: And then I had a freak head injury in school
Speaker 5: had nothing to do with hockey, and I slipped on
Speaker 5: sawdust and smashed my head and I could never play
Speaker 5: hockey again.
Speaker 6: So what was the whole circle for me?
Speaker 4: Was here?
Speaker 5: I was twenty five years after I did extra work
Speaker 5: on Law and Order, and I'm flown to New York
Speaker 5: and they're putting me up and I have this great
Speaker 5: role and I'm you know, doing well as an actor,
Speaker 5: and I'm sitting there in this cold room with sawdust
Speaker 5: all on the floor and behind the wall.
Speaker 6: If you know what.
Speaker 5: It is, it's hockey practice. I can hear the skates,
Speaker 5: I can hear the sticks, I can hear everything going
Speaker 5: on if you really listen and it was like my
Speaker 5: whole childhood of having played hockey and the smells and
Speaker 5: the feel of the cold, and that whole thing ended
Speaker 5: because it sawdust, which is all at my feet at
Speaker 5: this point. And there I am having a great part
Speaker 5: on a show, on something I did twenty five years
Speaker 5: ago as an extra when I was starting my career.
Speaker 5: It really blew me away and it actually helped a
Speaker 5: lot with the emotions of the scene.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really I don't know if it was cathartic
Speaker 5: as much as just wow, like this is all piling
Speaker 5: in at once.
Speaker 4: And everything's connected.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wowah interesting.
Speaker 2: Wait, so Kara is both a Sons of Anarchy and
Speaker 2: Bosh fanatic.
Speaker 4: So oh, we would love to hear some scam.
Speaker 1: Bloodline and Bloodline. I'll be honest, like, I'm really into
Speaker 1: like three of majors of your major projects.
Speaker 6: I loved all of them.
Speaker 5: I mean, Bloodline was I've been twenty five years acting
Speaker 5: and struggling and da da Da Da da da, and
Speaker 5: then I got my first series regular after twenty five
Speaker 5: years and it was Bloodline. Yeah, and it was it
Speaker 5: was like going from the miners to the All Star team,
Speaker 5: and you know, it was incredible and everyone was so nice,
Speaker 5: the writing was so good.
Speaker 6: It was just need to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: It was the best. It was such a good show.
Speaker 1: And you play Chloe Savigni's who's at SVU alum as well,
Speaker 1: you play her brother, right, and you guys are you
Speaker 1: guys are kind of like bad people, right, You're like, well.
Speaker 6: If you watch the whole series, we're the only decent people.
Speaker 1: Yeah in the end.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but yeah, No, I loved working Chloe. We had
Speaker 6: some great stuff together. We really it was just wonderful.
Speaker 1: She's great, Yeah, but this is like, this is great.
Speaker 1: We talked to Amy Landucker also on this podcast. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever worked with her before, but
Speaker 1: she's somebody who also like like got she got a
Speaker 1: regular series regular role in her early forties.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: It was like something like the just the longevity, thet
Speaker 1: you just have to stay in it and keep hustling
Speaker 1: for so long that you were an extra in ninety
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and that things weren't really starting to
Speaker 1: pop off for like ten or fifteen years is like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And even like looking at your IMDb, it's like getting
Speaker 1: in the two thousands it's like customer, hotel manager, characters
Speaker 1: without names, and then suddenly it's like, okay, now we
Speaker 1: got the repeating the big roles and stuff, and yeah,
Speaker 1: you've just been in like so many things that that
Speaker 1: I uh, that I love and thank you.
Speaker 4: You're one of those.
Speaker 1: You're I mean, people just come up to you all
Speaker 1: the time and say where do I know you from?
Speaker 1: Because like you have that like is in everything, and
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 5: It happens sometimes like it happened yesterday. I forgot where
Speaker 5: I was, and it's happened. Sometimes they know me from
Speaker 5: a specific but most of the time it's well, why
Speaker 5: don't I know you?
Speaker 4: Like that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what what's the most thing?
Speaker 4: What's the thing you get the most?
Speaker 5: It's suns for that was when I first really started
Speaker 5: getting recognized, was for suns, and then that said, it's longevity.
Speaker 6: I still get recognized from that Southland.
Speaker 5: By cops because cops loved Southland, but they a lot
Speaker 5: of them also those sins of anarchy and a lot
Speaker 5: of a lot for Bloodline especially.
Speaker 6: It seems like Bloodline.
Speaker 5: Got revisited this year, like it popped up again because
Speaker 5: I was getting recognized a lot this year for Bloodline
Speaker 5: as well.
Speaker 1: I think that's yeah.
Speaker 6: And Lincoln Lawyer, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the cool thing about streaming. I feel like,
Speaker 1: even though streaming is changing the industry so much, and
Speaker 1: sometimes maybe not in good ways, but the good thing
Speaker 1: is like old projects like resurface and people are like
Speaker 1: refinding old things so much, where I don't know how
Speaker 1: you ever used to find a TV show that wasn't
Speaker 1: on the air anymore, you know, you couldn't really go
Speaker 1: like rent it, you know, And now it's like people
Speaker 1: are just like sixteen year olds rediscovering friends now, you know,
Speaker 1: and all these shows that pop back off again. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad people are getting back into Bloodline. But I
Speaker 1: was there for the original. I was there as it
Speaker 1: was there, thank you. But so, how was when you
Speaker 1: were on this back SVU episode? How Haley lou Richardson
Speaker 1: has really your daughter has really had an assent with
Speaker 1: her White Lotus, uh, you know, appearance.
Speaker 6: So I watched all of White Lotus.
Speaker 5: Heather and I were watching it, and I'm like, God,
Speaker 5: this girl is so good because she's familiar, and you know,
Speaker 5: she's such a cute She's such a cute kid and
Speaker 5: all that too.
Speaker 6: And I'm like, gods, I must have seen her. And
Speaker 6: then it wasn't until you guys.
Speaker 5: Called me for this and we were rewatching this stuff
Speaker 5: and she's like, babe, that's the girl from White Loads by.
Speaker 6: Your daughter.
Speaker 5: And she was so good because she was so young
Speaker 5: then when we did ask for you don't know if
Speaker 5: she was like sixteen or whatever. She's still so young,
Speaker 5: but she was so spot on good and she could
Speaker 5: turn it on and off like that, you know, and
Speaker 5: she was such a sweet kid.
Speaker 2: How was it filming the prison talking through a phone
Speaker 2: and a glass That seems kind of like a bucket
Speaker 2: list fun moment.
Speaker 5: I you know, it was. But I had a scene,
Speaker 5: one of my favorite scenes in Bloodline where I was
Speaker 5: talking to Chloe like that and it we the reference
Speaker 5: was Woody the woodpecker, and it was such a bea.
Speaker 5: It was so well written, it was so sweet. So
Speaker 5: I had had that before. I probably had it before,
Speaker 5: and a couple other things, but so it.
Speaker 6: Was really neat.
Speaker 5: And you know, Peter and Iced Tea were great to
Speaker 5: work with. They were wonderful. Peter's so sweet, so nice,
Speaker 5: so is Iced team. But Peter's a little more effusive,
Speaker 5: you know, you gotta kind of pull it or I
Speaker 5: did anyway, But both times I've been on the show,
Speaker 5: everyone in that show has been just you know. I
Speaker 5: was thinking about it earlier when when you're on a
Speaker 5: show where there's a regular cast and they kind of
Speaker 5: they're on their own thing, and most times everyone's very
Speaker 5: nice to the guest stars and all that, But on SVU,
Speaker 5: they were it was almost like they were more inclusive
Speaker 5: of you as a guest star then some other shows
Speaker 5: have been over the years. And I don't think it's
Speaker 5: just because I've gotten a little more recognizable. I think
Speaker 5: it's just who they are, you know, they just kind
Speaker 5: of include you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And when I.
Speaker 5: Went from one episode and did the other one a
Speaker 5: couple of years later, it was just like it was like,
Speaker 5: you know, I hadn't seen them in.
Speaker 6: A little bit, and they're like, hey, Jamie, what's going on?
Speaker 6: What do you like?
Speaker 5: House a family? You know, And it was really is
Speaker 5: very sweet. It was very kind of tender and like
Speaker 5: they included you.
Speaker 2: Well, it's good to hear, considering the subject matter so
Speaker 2: tough for so many people coming on that show. It
Speaker 2: would suck if they were, you know, get in the
Speaker 2: corner in a box or in quarter or something.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and then yeah, then they had you back
Speaker 1: like five four or five seasons later to do the
Speaker 1: burden of our choices.
Speaker 6: And then you're playing a pre Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, have you ever played a priest before?
Speaker 6: I was more of a minister in that one. I
Speaker 6: did play a priest. You're a minister, which was funny.
Speaker 5: I played a priest, a very Catholic priest in the
Speaker 5: first season of Nip Tuck.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I also watched Nip Tuck.
Speaker 6: I was yeah, I was not a good priest.
Speaker 4: Oh, I bet.
Speaker 6: And it was so funny because my mother. It was
Speaker 6: a big It was a big break for me.
Speaker 5: I beat out like some other actors who had big,
Speaker 5: big agents at the time, and.
Speaker 6: I got this role.
Speaker 5: And I called my mom and I'm like, you know, hey,
Speaker 5: I got this big role.
Speaker 6: She's like, do you get killed? I go no.
Speaker 5: She goes, do you kill anyone? I go no, she goes, oh,
Speaker 5: thank god. I go actually, I play a priest. She goes,
Speaker 5: oh my god, that's wonderful.
Speaker 6: Oh. I was the worst type of priest there could be.
Speaker 6: So when they watched it, it wasn't so wonderful.
Speaker 2: Oh my god got this priest was twisted?
Speaker 4: Yeah, missed her.
Speaker 1: I can't keep it. The minister in in for you,
Speaker 1: the burden of our choices.
Speaker 6: I don't think he was twisted at all.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you think so, but I think he was
Speaker 5: just he was straight up in what he believed, which
Speaker 5: is twisted. But yes, he was. He was straight up.
Speaker 5: This is what I believe, this is what I do. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I can see how that's twisted. Yeah, But for him
Speaker 5: as a character, he wasn't twisted. It wasn't like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I see, when did we.
Speaker 2: Talk who's the actor in Charisma that was like my favorite.
Speaker 2: He plays this cult leader who impregnates his children and
Speaker 2: then he ends up killing all these kids in this
Speaker 2: incest cult.
Speaker 4: But when we talked to him.
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, I didn't realize I was a bad
Speaker 2: guy until I watched it for this podcast, because he
Speaker 2: was so He's like, you know, he just believed that
Speaker 2: this was his religion.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, that's so wild. True, Jeffrey Cobert, I.
Speaker 6: Think, yeah, oh I know he is. Yeah, I know
Speaker 6: jeff Colbert. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen him all the time.
Speaker 5: No, no, No, it's funny because he's also a not zen,
Speaker 5: but he's kind of a.
Speaker 6: I'm not a guru, but yes, yeah, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does like meditating, he does m he's like
Speaker 1: very genetication yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he teaches people that sort of stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he's kind of like a perfect like but one
Speaker 1: of the nicest people we've ever talked to, like, and
Speaker 1: he's absolutely freaky. And he's in a movie also from
Speaker 1: when I was younger that traumatized me. He's so scary
Speaker 1: in it called like the movie The First Power I
Speaker 1: think is what it's called, and like he's it's like
Speaker 1: I just watched it too young and was like, that
Speaker 1: guy is so scary. And then we talked to him
Speaker 1: and one of the nicest people in the world. You know,
Speaker 1: you just hone what you know, probably his belief in
Speaker 1: meditation was his belief that he should have a child
Speaker 1: bride in spu you know, he just gotta you just
Speaker 1: gotta is that Meisner when you I don't know what
Speaker 1: what kind of what acting school that is, but are
Speaker 1: you a theater guy or always.
Speaker 5: Tea No, no, no, I did a lot of like that's
Speaker 5: how I learned to to act.
Speaker 6: Was I did a lot of theater, but I mean
Speaker 6: like so far off Broadway. It was in Jersey. I mean,
Speaker 6: you know I did.
Speaker 5: I did dinner theater at a mall in New Jersey
Speaker 5: one time for a while.
Speaker 6: Yeah, serving food and everything. It was fun. But I did.
Speaker 5: I did a lot of plays, like back to back
Speaker 5: to back for the first four or five years.
Speaker 6: And some were you know, one was a shick.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I played Patricio and Timmy of the Shrew at a
Speaker 5: college outdoor theater in Jersey. And you know, I did
Speaker 5: a bunch of one acts in New York and nothing real.
Speaker 5: I mean I did plays that you would know of,
Speaker 5: but not in venues that you'd know.
Speaker 6: Other than I was. I was a swing in Tony
Speaker 6: and Tina's wedding, like a siller.
Speaker 1: When you just said the dinner theater thing, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I did go to Tony and Tina's wedding.
Speaker 4: I mean that was fun.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I did Tony and Tina's wedding in like the
Speaker 1: early two thousands. I went to it because I had
Speaker 1: a friend who was in it.
Speaker 6: And it was it was a fun show.
Speaker 4: Crazy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I really learned to uh
Speaker 6: that show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you'd like go to the bathroom and there'd
Speaker 1: be guys like pretending to do coke and stuff like.
Speaker 4: It was like a whole It was so fun.
Speaker 6: They were amazing.
Speaker 2: I'm really so sad I never made it to that
Speaker 2: because that sounds like I would be really into it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 4: It's hilarious. Miss that.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, do you have upcoming stuff that you
Speaker 2: want to like, I'm looking at it right now.
Speaker 4: Give us the heads up about like I did.
Speaker 5: I did the show called Task, Yeah, and it'll be
Speaker 5: on HBO. Mark Ruffalo is the lead. Tom Pilfree, Sam Keeley.
Speaker 5: I get to work closely with an Irish actor. It's
Speaker 5: the first thing in my career to really surpass Bloodline
Speaker 5: as it's the best thing I've done in my career.
Speaker 6: I think it.
Speaker 1: Isn't it the guy who played yeah young version and Bloodline?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yep. Oh and I got to hang out knowing
Speaker 6: quite a bit.
Speaker 5: We were in We filmed in Philly, which I loved,
Speaker 5: or we stayed in Philly. We filmed in the suburbs.
Speaker 5: But Brad Inglesby, who created Mayor of East Town.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's so funny when you just said it I
Speaker 1: clicked on it on IMDb, and when I saw the
Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo thumbnail, I was like, this is giving me
Speaker 1: May of east Town. Like in my head, I was like,
Speaker 1: this feels like Mary of Eastown.
Speaker 5: So Brad who created May of Eastown and wrote every episode.
Speaker 5: He created this show and wrote every episode. He's one
Speaker 5: of the nicest humans you'll ever meet. He's just such
Speaker 5: a good guy. Everyone on it was so nice. The
Speaker 5: writing was so good. The character I got to play
Speaker 5: was on and dangerous and exciting, and the chemistry with
Speaker 5: Sam Keeley was amazing. And then I got to do
Speaker 5: season two of nineteen twenty three. I was in a
Speaker 5: little bit in the first season, and Taylor brought my
Speaker 5: character back in a great way.
Speaker 1: Oh this is part is this part of the Yellowstone
Speaker 1: the Yellowstone Universe?
Speaker 4: Okay, cool?
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is the one with Harrison Ford and he Yeah.
Speaker 4: Geez, wow, you had to work with those suckers.
Speaker 1: That's too bad.
Speaker 6: I didn't.
Speaker 5: I didn't get to work with them. I wish I did,
Speaker 5: but my scenes didn't have anything with them. It was
Speaker 5: really uh, it was really neat. Yeah.
Speaker 6: And then I got to go back to Wednesday season
Speaker 6: two and do a little bit here and there.
Speaker 1: That's great, And was the second season also in Romania.
Speaker 6: Now it was.
Speaker 5: It was in Ireland, which is one of my favorite
Speaker 5: places in the mine too.
Speaker 4: I love Ireland.
Speaker 6: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I got to go back and forth a few times,
Speaker 5: and it was just like wonderful.
Speaker 4: I just want to seafood chowder all the time. What
Speaker 4: you say.
Speaker 2: I love seafood chowder and just like sitting and you.
Speaker 6: Said, I'd just like to sleep with chowder all the time. Wow,
Speaker 6: that is I never.
Speaker 1: Think of Ireland as being like a seafood chowder place,
Speaker 1: but I guess under by walking.
Speaker 4: Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you come back, because they've had you
Speaker 1: back now every five years, so you're about due for
Speaker 1: another season. I do like season twenty six, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's been about five since season twenty one. So uh
Speaker 1: what what what do we like? You've played a dad,
Speaker 1: a vigil anti dad, a minister who obviously is anti abortion,
Speaker 1: a blonde ange.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, I.
Speaker 5: Don't know whatever they whatever they say, Hey, Jamie, that'd
Speaker 5: be nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have moles on the inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got we've got people that listen. I can
Speaker 1: see you as like a cop from another a cop
Speaker 1: from another precinct or something, you know, like that has
Speaker 1: they have to work with him.
Speaker 4: But then maybe he's back. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I want people to see your good side, so I
Speaker 1: want you to play. I want you to just play
Speaker 1: good guys.
Speaker 6: That'd be nice.
Speaker 1: Well, I cannot wait to watch task see you in
Speaker 1: anything else you do. And thank you so much for
Speaker 1: taking the time to talk to us. This was great.
Speaker 4: He's too good.
Speaker 2: I need I need a flaw. I need to find
Speaker 2: a flaw in this man. He's too positive. I'm like,
Speaker 2: can you talk a little shit, sir. But he's just happy.
Speaker 1: He's like never had a bad experience, happy for the work.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine you're doing extra work in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: but things like do not pop off for you into
Speaker 1: like the early to mid two thousand. It's just like
Speaker 1: fifteen years of auditioning and like damn doing shorts and
Speaker 1: stuff like Wow.
Speaker 2: The I mean that is I mean, that is like
Speaker 2: how you build a career. It's like really rare to
Speaker 2: just hit it, you know what I mean, and anything
Speaker 2: like you gotta go to med school, you gotta get
Speaker 2: boots on the ground. Well, oh, my god. There's a
Speaker 2: new season of inc Master. You were in the group
Speaker 2: chat unfortunately of that conversation. But it's six episodes in
Speaker 2: when I found it. I'm still glad I found it.
Speaker 2: But it's OG's versus New Guns, So it's teams, and
Speaker 2: it's people with under ten years experience and then people
Speaker 2: with over ten years experience. The most experienced is he's
Speaker 2: twenty six years in and the ogs are.
Speaker 4: Like smashing the competition.
Speaker 2: And there's a girl that's three years in that's like incredible,
Speaker 2: she'll probably make it to the top three, like she
Speaker 2: is magic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that happens.
Speaker 2: And Ryan, who's a judge now who won, who is
Speaker 2: also only four years in when she won, like it's
Speaker 2: not an end some like rule, but the ogs are demolishing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like Malcolm Glodwell talks about the ten
Speaker 1: thousand Hours.
Speaker 2: What a dumb bitch, fucking I know, and I'm done
Speaker 2: acknowledging him. You want people back in the office. We're
Speaker 2: not talking about him, no, no, no, fuck it.
Speaker 1: But I yes, I don't love Malcolm Glodwell that much,
Speaker 1: but I do think the ten thousand Hours is like
Speaker 1: kind of legit, Like the more you work on your art,
Speaker 1: like how could you not be better? And of course
Speaker 1: there's exceptions like the random comedian who's like killer after
Speaker 1: one year, Like you know, of course that happens.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm more thinking about the people that I've known
Speaker 2: for fifteen years who are still not good.
Speaker 4: That is who I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: So I know ten thousand hours is a guarantee, but
Speaker 1: that's actually kind true.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's just not their honey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that because also sometimes what happens on inc
Speaker 2: masters at least, it's like you could work for twenty
Speaker 2: five years and have the same bad habits, always not
Speaker 2: want to learn, think you know everything, and come in
Speaker 2: with like kind of outdated work without knowing different genres
Speaker 2: and being like, well this is actually what I do
Speaker 2: and I I know, and then the ego kind of
Speaker 2: takes over. So there have been instances where the people
Speaker 2: with twenty years experience really suck, but this season is
Speaker 2: just like interesting. But yeah, things take a long times sometimes,
Speaker 2: but yeah, you got it, because I don't like it's
Speaker 2: always confusing when peoplere like, well I'll move to LA
Speaker 2: and if it doesn't happen in two years, I'm out,
Speaker 2: And it's like you shouldn't even start them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's if you're willing to not do
Speaker 2: it in two years, you should just never ever do it.
Speaker 4: It's like pretty hard.
Speaker 1: It's like what do they say? It's like you do
Speaker 1: it because you can't do anything else, Like you do
Speaker 1: these things because like you have to do them, like.
Speaker 4: In your way.
Speaker 2: Are the convo that I had with the prop set
Speaker 2: design person on the India I did or not? We
Speaker 2: were like at the little wrap gathering and we're talking
Speaker 2: and she goes, well, what I love doing more is
Speaker 2: showing up, building the set and leaving. And she goes,
Speaker 2: because no offense, I don't like working with actors.
Speaker 4: Go, I get it. I get it. She's like, I
Speaker 4: work with inadimate.
Speaker 2: Objects on purpose, yeah, because they're should be on set maintaining.
Speaker 2: But like she said, she built one of the sets
Speaker 2: for Survival of the Thickest, which I didn't know, like
Speaker 2: she did them Garcelle's closet, I think. And so she goes,
Speaker 2: I just came in, did it and left, and she's like,
Speaker 2: I prefer that kind of work.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah it is, but yeah, you can't fake experience.
Speaker 2: But Jamie's just like grateful for the learning the process,
Speaker 2: Like you can tell he really loves it and loves
Speaker 2: his kids and proud of them all. And I don't
Speaker 2: know in the him, Yeah great guy, Well what do
Speaker 2: we think about this episode? I mean this crime the
Speaker 2: crime like truly, like this is the kind of Oh
Speaker 2: my god, I forgot that we're in the post mortem. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we got to do our post mortem.
Speaker 1: But like this kind of person, this hat and guy
Speaker 1: like truly makes me like ill that you would just
Speaker 1: abuse your power or that you would go to school
Speaker 1: to become both like him the coach, Like that you
Speaker 1: would go to school and like work hard and pass
Speaker 1: exams and do all this just you can be in
Speaker 1: a position to like abuse people. It's so diabolical.
Speaker 2: It is diabolical, but it's not unique. And that is
Speaker 2: like what I'm the most mad at. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: these pedophiles do a lot, These molestors and rapists do
Speaker 2: a lot to be able to get away with it,
Speaker 2: Like why are we shocked they volunteer and do all
Speaker 2: these things on purpose, Like these urges are.
Speaker 4: Like they can't control the I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's go to what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 4: For the week?
Speaker 1: You guys know what this is. It's our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we direct you towards an organization or a article,
Speaker 1: just more info or something you can do charitably to help.
Speaker 1: Regarding the subject that we talked about in today's episode,
Speaker 1: and this week for what would Sister Peg Do, we
Speaker 1: would like to point you to the Innocence Project. We
Speaker 1: have pointed you to them before, but you know, it's
Speaker 1: never it's never too many times because they do work
Speaker 1: to free innocent people. We obviously hated the whole Jerome
Speaker 1: Jones storyline in this episode where someone is falsely accused
Speaker 1: twice and obviously it does not lead to anything good
Speaker 1: for him in the episode, but also in real life,
Speaker 1: many people go to jail for several reasons, and the
Speaker 1: Innocence Project works to free the innocent, prevent wrongful convictions,
Speaker 1: and create fair, compassion and equitable systems of justice for everyone.
Speaker 1: Their work is guided by science and grounded in anti racism.
Speaker 1: And for more info go to Innocenceproject dot org. And
Speaker 1: as always, that's a story the day that this episode
Speaker 1: comes out, and then we save that story for Reva
Speaker 1: in our what would Sister Peg do WWSPD highlights on
Speaker 1: our Instagram page, which is That's Messed Up Pod. Go
Speaker 1: give us a follow.
Speaker 2: Yay, all right, and next week I don't know why,
Speaker 2: yay the innocence, but it's good.
Speaker 4: They do good.
Speaker 2: We're gonna do an episode called Smoked legendary episode.
Speaker 4: I would iconic iconic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Season twelve, episode twenty four, and I like a
Speaker 2: little number game twenty four divided.
Speaker 4: By two thrilling. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's AKA Maloney's last episode, guys, so tune in.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a good one.
Speaker 2: And again, yeah, buy some Christmas gifts from our merch
Speaker 2: if you want that to happen before Christmas.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media dot dum