1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Jackie Saint James is an award winning writer, director, and 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: producer of ethical erotic content. As an added feminist and 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: proponent of positive sexuality, her work aims to explore, embrace, 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: and normalize the varied path of female desire. Jackie is 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: known for the story she creates with her films and 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: beautiful cinematography with which they are shot. She is also 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: wildly known for being a theater classmate to none other 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: than our very own Chip Doors. Hi Jocking, Hi Jackie, 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: thank you for being here. 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: It is my pleasure. 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: Okay, first things first, Jackie, I need to know any 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,319 Speaker 1: memories you have of being in theater with Chip. It's 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: a long time agoin all the listeners and all the juice. 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: I think I'm wrong, Chip, because I actually was thinking 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: about this the other day. So I took musical theater 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: and I will tell you I'm not a singer. And 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: I remember when I auditioned for filler on the roof 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: my freshman year, Bob Chapel, the chair was like, just 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: stick to straight place, like you're not a singer. 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: But I took. 21 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 2: I took this musical theater class my fourth year because 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: I wanted to just sort of confront my fears, and 23 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: I was very scared of singing because I'm not a singer. 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 2: But I did comedy through the songs I had to sing. 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: And I remember I sang this song and I was 26 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 2: in like a silk rope. And I think Chip, you 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 2: were the guy I was singing too. I might be wrong. 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 4: I did take a musical theater class. Yeah, yeah, because 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 4: I remember Miranda was in it with us. 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: Okay, I was in this class. You were the guy 32 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: that I was. I think I was like a nerdy, 33 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: like trying to be sexy personally. 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 4: Remember it now that you're talking about it, because it 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 4: was in the It was in the smaller theater, in. 36 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: The black room, the black Yeah, the black box theater. 37 00:01:58,720 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 38 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: Does anyone have any films of this? 39 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 3: It was pre cell phone, so probably yeah. 40 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like VHS somewhere. 41 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's probably a VHS flow somewhere. 42 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: Well. 43 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 4: It's funny too, because then we had a remeet because 44 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 4: we hadn't seen each other in years, and then we 45 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 4: both were living in Los Angeles and I started managing 46 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 4: a singer songwriter who randomly was best friends with Jackie. 47 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 48 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 3: It was a very small world. 49 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 4: So we got reunited later in life too, so and 50 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 4: now here's the third time. 51 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: And now on the Velvet Hedge podcast. 52 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, actually the nursing Home. 53 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be a fun time with us there. 54 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: Though, it to me, well, okay, I need to know 55 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: how do you go from being a UVA or I 56 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: think you were a theater major, right, how do you 57 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: go from that to directing an erotic film? 58 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: Like? 59 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: What was your process? How did you get here? Tell 60 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: us all of it. 61 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: I mean, the shortest version is that I to LA 62 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: to be an actor and worked in corporate America for 63 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: about four years after graduation and quickly learned that I 64 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: was not the shit. I was not cut out to 65 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: be an actor, and it was very deflated. It's very 66 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: ego deflating to go from Virginia, where you're maybe the lead, 67 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: to La, where you're absolutely nobody and nobody cares about you. Right, 68 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: So I re entered corporate America here, but I was 69 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: watching a lot of porn and one of my guy friends, 70 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: who actually is a camera guy on a lot of 71 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: TV shows, he and I would exchange porn clips and 72 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, this is crazy. Look at 73 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: this well, he sent me one and he was like, 74 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: I can't believe that they're shooting porn like this. And 75 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: it was for a company called New Sensations, and it 76 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: was like very high end, high end pornography with attractive 77 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: guys which I had never really seen and a script 78 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: that wasn't the worst thing I'd ever heard. And so 79 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: I was like, this interesting. I never thought porn like 80 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: this existed. So I researched the company and they were 81 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: doing a screenwriting contest and my buddy was like, dude, 82 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: enter the contest. It will be hilarious, Like what if 83 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: you won? And so I reached out to one of 84 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: the porn directors on Twitter, terrified out of my mind 85 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: that I'm talking to anybody in porn. And he's like 86 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: call me, and I'm like, oh, he's just going to 87 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: hit on me. And he was so nice and respectful, 88 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: and then he said, you know, just write a script 89 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 2: with sex. That's all you have to do. Yeah, And 90 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: so I did and I sent it in and I won. 91 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: Now I'll tell you it's it's no big deal that 92 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: I won, because I after I worked with the company, 93 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: I saw the people, the scripts that were submitted and 94 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: of course, I won, like. 95 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: How long is a porn script? 96 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 2: I mean porn scripts range, Like I at that studio, 97 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: I was doing like forty pages, but then like when 98 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 2: I left that company, I was doing him at fifteen, 99 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: which is really you know, you're just getting. 100 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: Yeah wa bam, thank you ma'am. 101 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah. 102 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: I always thought it was really interesting had we were 103 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: talking before the podcast and telling you that we had 104 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: Candice Horback who is her name is Eva Lovia and porn. 105 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: But when I was researching for that podcast and in 106 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: this podcast, it was so interesting to me because it's 107 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: sort of like what you just said, it really is 108 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: a script just with sex. Like the way that you 109 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: even talk about set days, all of the things that 110 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: you have to think about as a director, like writing. 111 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: The whole process is so similar to what we deal 112 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: with in music or you know, regular film. So is 113 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: there anything that you would say to that, like what 114 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: is the biggest maybe even like misconception or assumption that 115 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: people have about the porn industry where you're like, no, 116 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,559 Speaker 1: it's really just an entertainment industry, just like everything else. 117 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's funny, and I mean 118 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: I work with a lot of new performers, and I 119 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: talked to them about misconceptions, and they're the same that 120 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: I had that everyone was snorting lines of cocaine and 121 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: partying and it's it's a billion dollar business. Like we 122 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 2: wouldn't be a billion dollar business if that was the case. 123 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: You know, you go in and you work, and you 124 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: work long hours, and people care about the product, and 125 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: even though it's just sex, like it's our job. So 126 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: it's a lot less party. I mean, yeah, people are 127 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: partying on the weekend, but when we go to set, 128 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: like we got a lot to do and there's not 129 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: a lot of time for goofing off. It would just 130 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: be like a very very low budget film with not 131 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: a lot of money and trying to maximize that. That's 132 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: how I would compare it. 133 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, a lot of work, a lot of work. 134 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: I was reading an article, one of the ones I 135 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: found on your website and it y'all. It said something 136 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: about like you shoot a full film in two days sometimes. Yeah, 137 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: it's wild to me. 138 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot. I don't do that as much anymore, 139 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: but like you know, and it's funny because the requirements 140 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: that we have are not just the dialogue, which you know, 141 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: I think a standard like I and the film would 142 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: be doing maybe four pages a day. I'm doing like ten. 143 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: And on top of that, we're doing fills and pictures 144 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: and sex stills and sex and the dialogue with people 145 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: that are not real actors. So there's just like so 146 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: much that goes into it, and a lot of work 147 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: from the director and cruise perspective on keeping it going. 148 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: It's it's a lot for two days. Yes, it's a lot. 149 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, wow. 150 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 151 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: Well we talked a little bit about this in your intro, 152 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: but feminism is a word that's really tied to you 153 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of articles and it's i mean even 154 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: your bio. It's kind of like what you're known for. 155 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: And I know, like for me, I guess one of 156 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: the conversations that I started hearing about, you know, a 157 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, is just like more women are 158 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: watching porn, but women want it to be more directed 159 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: towards them, Like, you know, it's such a male driven 160 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: industry from what we mostly talk about, So can you 161 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: speak to that a little bit, Like how does the 162 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: word feminism and just you know, feminine empowerment play into 163 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: the kind of porn that you're creating. 164 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: It's interesting because there's two camps of feminists. And there's 165 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: the feminists that hate porn and think it's evil and awful. 166 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: So there's those feminists. I'm not like those feminists, and 167 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: then there's the feminists that so the feminists are at 168 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: odds with each other, and then there's a feminists that 169 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: just want to I mean, I hate categorizing female sexuality 170 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: in like one giant's bubble, because women are very nuanced 171 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: creatures and have a lot of different desires. But one 172 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: of the things that most women like is to be 173 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: able to see the person's head, like the man's head 174 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: when the people are having sex. And you'll see notoriously 175 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: in heterosexual male porn, the man's head is cut off. 176 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: It doesn't he doesn't even matter because the guys watching 177 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: that don't want to see another guy and another guy's pleasure, 178 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: where women want to see the guy's face and the 179 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: reaction to the blow job or whatever, and so we're 180 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: shooting it so we see both people in the connection 181 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 2: between both people. It's not just a headless torso and 182 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: a woman with big tits. 183 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean. 184 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 2: That is such a good which is like male oriented porn. 185 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: It's such a nuanced detail too. 186 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, but yes, as a former consumer 187 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: of porn before I gotten porn, that always drew me 188 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: crazy as they would do the little setup, you know, 189 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: which is stupid, but I would still want to buy 190 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: that it was her stepbrother and then he would go 191 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: to kissing her and then they just cant down to 192 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: her boobs and I'm like, okay, I want to I 193 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: want to see his expression and when she's neated, and 194 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: you just don't get that in male dominated porn, you 195 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: just don't. And even on the gay side it's very 196 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: detached as well. It's just close up penetration and that 197 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: kind of thing, and it's it's just the male gaze 198 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: is very different. 199 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 200 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: Is that because of what drives us actually? Like men 201 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: are so visually stimulated and like women do typically need 202 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: more of a connection. Is that what's going on there? 203 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: I think? So? 204 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, for sure. That is so fascinating to me. Chip, 205 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? 206 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 4: I mean, it makes sense, you know, like it's not 207 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 4: something that I'd never thought about before, but it makes 208 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 4: perfect sense to me. 209 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 210 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 4: It's it's also like I'm sitting here thinking like, Wow, 211 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 4: we're just sitting around talking about porn, and I'm like, 212 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 4: I'm curious at what pot Like how long did it 213 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 4: take you to like just be able to sort of 214 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 4: sit back in your comfort and be like I'm working porn, 215 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 4: you know, like right, and it not to be like 216 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 4: I've wanted to giggle a few times, but like this 217 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 4: is your profession, you know, Like how like what kind 218 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 4: of hurdle was that to come over? Oh? 219 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: My god? So many? And I still I mean I've 220 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: been in twelve years now, and I mean I still 221 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: don't tell my neighbors. I mean, because you know that 222 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: you're going to get the bigoted reactions because porn is 223 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: always the punchline to a joke and so like you 224 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: say porn and people laugh and it's fine, you know, 225 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: I get it. But I think I started really seeing 226 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: it as like, Okay, this is my job when I left, 227 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 2: because I was still holding onto my corporate job. And 228 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: when the company, the first porn company I worked with, 229 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: was like, we want you to come in as a 230 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 2: director now, I was like I had to make the decision, 231 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: and it's just like jumping off a cliff. And then 232 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: I appeared on camera as like an extra, and like 233 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: you know, once you've been seen, it's sort of like 234 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: there's no going back at that point, like the face 235 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: is out there and then it's a very different so 236 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: I think, I mean, it still is a struggle. There 237 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: is no full disclosure, but I will say working in porn, 238 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 2: I mean there is such a level of comfort among 239 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: all of us, Like we can talk about yeast infections 240 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: and UTIs and things that other people would be like 241 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: like nobody in porn, even if that's an eye So 242 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 2: like I mean, not to be graphic, but if I 243 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: can be graphic, like we're shooting it, we're shooting an 244 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: anal scene and there's poop, nobody, like the average person 245 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 2: might be like, oh nobody. We just are getting a 246 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: baby wipe and cleaning it up and there's no judgments 247 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: like part of it. It's just part of it. And 248 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: it's so refreshing because like I think, you know, and 249 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 2: I know as a woman too, like some people are 250 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: scared to talk with their periods, Like for us, like 251 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 2: there's nothing that's up limits, like you talk about whatever, 252 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: and there's no secrets about your health. 253 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just really like. 254 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: Oh, we said a herpes operate well, let's look you know, 255 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 2: I mean like literally that's wow, wow. Yeah. 256 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 4: Are there any like I mean it's you know, at 257 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: a normal you know, corporate gig, Like there's things that 258 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 4: are off limits that you can't even talk about, like 259 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 4: what are the rules, Like is there anything that governs. 260 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: There's no a tar departments. We are we are self governed. 261 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: So I think that like in terms of how we operate, 262 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: I mean there there are things that we're still trying 263 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: to figure out our off limits like director's dating, talent 264 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: things like that, Like those are things we're still working through. 265 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: But you're right, like for me to say, hey, can 266 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 2: I look at your tits real quick? Like if the 267 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: girl says she has a bruise, and I'm like, okay, 268 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: can you take off your clothes like in any. 269 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 3: Other yeah yeah. 270 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: But for me, it's like, hey, I can tell these 271 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: people to get naked, I can look at their genitals 272 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 2: up closed, and nobody's going to think I'm being a 273 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: weird Yeah. 274 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 3: Right. 275 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: It's so interesting to hear you talk about like when 276 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: there's if there's an anal scene and there have tends 277 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: to be like accidental poop Like that's like real life sex, right, 278 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: like we And that's one of the big complaints people 279 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: have with porn is that it creates this world that's 280 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: like that is not what this is really like. So 281 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's ever a time where you guys 282 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: would like integrate a little more of that like reality piece, yeah, 283 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: the poop that happens in an anal scene that yeah? 284 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: Or is it just like this is purely meant for 285 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: entertainment purposes, Like are we back to that point of 286 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: this is this is about entertainment, This is about fantasy, 287 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: This is not supposed to be real life. 288 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: Well, so right now I'm shooting a reality baseline for 289 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: this company called blessa And the line is called Blessa House, 290 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: and it's we basically take performers usually too and they 291 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: have a real life story, okay, and then we do 292 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: an interview about the real life story. So some of 293 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: the ones we've done is like two x's wanted to 294 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: have sex again or we I mean, because there's a 295 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: lot of like drama in our business, you know, as 296 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: you can imagine, I'm working with a lot of twenty somethings, 297 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: So there's heightened emotion, there's heightened drama. But we we 298 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: even had one with these two performers where they were 299 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: going to maybe date and then he ghosted her and 300 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: they hadn't talked. The first time they saw each other 301 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: was on camera. 302 00:14:54,960 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 5: Oh wow, and it was actually really powerful if yeah, 303 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 5: And then they had sex and it was sort of 304 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 5: like an apology make up sets, but it was really 305 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 5: interesting because that is something you'll never see, Like had 306 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 5: we shot it as a normal scene, the tears would 307 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 5: have been wiped. 308 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: Up right, it would have been fixed. They would fuck 309 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: and it would be perfect. And like this was like 310 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: very like she just said point blank, like you ghosted me, 311 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: and then she started crying and then he apologized, Like 312 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: it was really cool. I don't know if it's like masturbatable. 313 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: Maybe that's some dear psychotic person. 314 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 6: It's just from a standpoint of like, wow, these are 315 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 6: human beings, and like that's the common I get about 316 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 6: this line all the times, Like these people are people, 317 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 6: Like they're not the crazy performer you see, that's just 318 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 6: an act. 319 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: Like these people don't run around asking to be pile drived, 320 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: like when they go out on a date, Like just 321 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: not who those people are. 322 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 4: I mean, those receptions a scene like that is probably 323 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 4: more masturbatable. If that's a word, I'm gonna use it 324 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 4: masturbatable for women because there's like a real connection there. Yeah, 325 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 4: it's one I can see, like I can hear like 326 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 4: a all you know, and then be like, oh. 327 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 3: My god, that's fucking hot, right. 328 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: You know, well I did wonder that, like when you're creating, 329 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: because we talked about creating porn for women and you're 330 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: writing these stories, it is if it's about the connection, 331 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: how much of that does go into like the dialogue, 332 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: the storyline, the whole piece of it, like the human 333 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: the human connection of it, the human piece of it. 334 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: I guess. 335 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the first step is the performers. 336 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: So I always ask them who they want to work 337 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: with instead of telling them who, because you know, you're 338 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: having sex. I want them to enjoy it. And I 339 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: have like a like a stable of people I work with, 340 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: so I'll say to the girl you know, or which 341 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: of these six guys do you really like and who 342 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: would you like to work with best? So that's the 343 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: first step. And then yes, of course, like writing the 344 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 2: story around the connection as much as I can within 345 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: the time that we have. Yeah, for sure. 346 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting. I feel like psychology and sex are 347 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: so connected. And I know Chip told me you are 348 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: kind of in that same mind thinking too. And I 349 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: don't know if we can talk about this or not, 350 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: but you're in grad school to do family and marriage therapy, 351 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: which I find so fascinating to go from directing porn 352 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: into that. But it makes sense to me because I 353 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: feel like one of the things we don't talk about 354 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 1: in our society is how much our sex life is 355 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: driven by our psychology, our experiences in this lifetime. So 356 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: what is the connection for you that you're seeing going 357 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: from that career into this new kind of like understanding 358 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: of psychology. 359 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 2: I mean, I think one of the reasons why I've 360 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 2: always been interested in psychology, but I just never had 361 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: time or the money to go to grad school. Yeah, 362 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 2: but then working in porn and seeing a lot of people, 363 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 2: and I mean, I think the general misconception is that 364 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: all of them were abused as children, and that's not true. 365 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 2: Yes many have been, but not all. But a lot 366 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: of the people, including people behind the camera, have some damage. 367 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: And I think I only know that. I don't I 368 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: think that happens in any line of work, but I 369 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: know that because we're very open in our business, so 370 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: we know a lot. And so I realize one of 371 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: the complaints a lot of the performers say is they 372 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: go into therapy and the therapist is trying to talk 373 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: the ambout working in porn. And there's a lack of 374 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: understanding of sex workers because people think you were molested 375 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: and you shouldn't be doing this. This is wrong. Women 376 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: shouldn't do this. And I'm like, Okay, I want to 377 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: be there for a lot of sex workers, specifically because 378 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: I understand the work that they're doing, and I also 379 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: understand that a lot of why they're in therapy has 380 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 2: nothing to do with their job. In fact, this job 381 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: in porn has saved a lot of their lives, which 382 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 2: is surprising but true. 383 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, wow, I am so fascinated by this topic. 384 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: So when you're directing people, like what are you seeing 385 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: when you if someone would say to you like, I'm 386 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: in therapy, but they're telling me to quit my job, 387 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: What's what's happening? 388 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 3: Like? 389 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: Why why are they in this industry? What is it 390 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: just to pay the bills? Is it entertainment? Are they 391 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: learning to be actors? 392 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:25,479 Speaker 4: Like? 393 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: So I think I mean it's hard to stay percentages 394 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: because I don't know, but like there's a portion of 395 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 2: them that grew up on porn, and then they looked 396 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 2: at people who had like a level of celebrity and porn, 397 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: you know. And a lot of porn stars are making 398 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 2: millions a month now on only fans, so it's a 399 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: very lucrative job, right. But then there's people who are 400 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 2: from very poor families and they are the most stable 401 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: person and they're making the money to support their family 402 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: and their siblings. Maybe there were a child of addicts 403 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: or things like that, so they're taking care of their families. 404 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 2: And that's a lot of the girls. I mean, as 405 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 2: far as the guys, I don't really get into it. 406 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: And I don't think for the guys, it's just a 407 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: fuck hot chicks, because it's a hard job for them too, 408 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: And I don't think a lot of people realize that. 409 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: But from a female perspective, a lot of the girls 410 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: that I know are taking care of their families back home. 411 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: When you say it's a hard job for them too, 412 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: can you tell us more? What do you mean. 413 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: Anytime some guys like I love fucking hot chicks, Like 414 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: I agreed to this job, I have a big dick. 415 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, it doesn't matter that you have a 416 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 2: big dick. It doesn't matter that you like having sex. Yeah, 417 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: because for the guys, it's they're the variable and straightforn 418 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 2: where they have to come and so they have to 419 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: come in. And I'll give you an example. There was 420 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 2: a time where the girl was bitching because her boyfriend 421 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: was being mean to her, and the guy had to 422 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 2: fuck her in an anal scene in a house that 423 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: didn't have air conditioning. It was about one hundred and 424 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: ten degrees, it was seven o'clock at night. The girl 425 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: was starving and in a bad mood, and the crew 426 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: just wanted to go home, and he had to stay 427 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: hard and be able to come with all of those 428 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: things and not feel the pressure of all of us going. 429 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 4: I just want you to come as if there's not 430 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 4: enough pressure already, right. 431 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 432 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 6: So like when people say it's easy, I'm like, it 433 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 6: actually isn't easy at all. 434 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: And you're contending with so many things all the time 435 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 2: in our business, so they cannot fake it. The girl can. 436 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,959 Speaker 2: But then so yeah, and we see a lot of 437 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: like if the guys are in the business they've been 438 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: there a long time, and the new ones they're in 439 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: and out like that, or they become you know, lifers 440 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: or whatever. But yeah, it's a hard job. 441 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: Just because of them. 442 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, because if you fail you're first scene, 443 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: every director is getting a call from that director going 444 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 2: so and so failed, don't hire him. He's gonna waste 445 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: money because it's a waste of money. And so you 446 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: have to be successful. And I know that sounds so silly, 447 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: but like you can't say hard and come, that's going 448 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: to cost me all of the money I paid for 449 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: the girl, the location, you know, the crew that's there, 450 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 2: all of that, and then making up that scene because 451 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: somebody failed. Yeah, so every guy is failed at one point. 452 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: But if you're failing your first scene, you're probably not 453 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: going to get a second unless somebody is so desperate 454 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 2: and they have no option. 455 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 4: But you and I would imagine too that there's probably 456 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 4: in you know, in the world of like celebrity porn stars, 457 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 4: there's probably not that many straight male celebrity porn stars. 458 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 4: It's either women or gay porn stars that crank are making. 459 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 4: That's particularly money on OnlyFans, you know. 460 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, why is that like, yeah, why is 461 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 2: the guys the gay guys I guess just have a 462 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: lot of fans probably, Yeah. 463 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: I think it's just a different type of fan Like yeah, 464 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 4: you know, like I think obviously men, straight men are 465 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 4: necessary for porn, but I don't think women are going 466 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 4: there for fandom. I think that there's they would rather 467 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 4: like be fans of, like celebrities doing other things that 468 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 4: they get. Can imagine what they're like naked versus just 469 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 4: like some guy who's you know, just banging a bunch 470 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 4: of chicks, because they probably there's probably a bit of 471 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 4: a turnoff for these guys that are fucking a lot of. 472 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 3: Women to them. 473 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: Ask you what you're saying. 474 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 4: I'm generalizing about the straight women's psychology, but I would 475 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 4: imagine that like there probably just aren't that many celebrities 476 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 4: in that space, right, maybe straight male porn stars. 477 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel Ron Jeremy was I mean, I mean, 478 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 2: I hate saying that name, but like everyone knows Ron 479 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: Jeremy right. 480 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 4: Right, and he has culture too, you know, he yeah, 481 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 4: was elevated above it. 482 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: But it wasn't like people knew about him because he 483 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: was so hot, right, Like, that's not what's happening there, 484 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: so it is very different. Yeah, So keeping on this psychology, 485 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: I was also when I was on your website reading 486 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: a lot about just trying to do ethical porn and 487 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: you know all that goes into that, and we talked 488 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: a lot about that when Candice was on just the 489 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: process of going through like picking or you talk about 490 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: it like being setting up set so that it's like 491 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: safe for everyone and all that goes into that. So, 492 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: first of all, could you just describe what you mean 493 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: by ethical porn to people? 494 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think it's first like explaining to 495 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 2: the people what's expected of them. And so what I say, 496 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't shoot in or fox sess porn anymore, 497 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: but you know if I did letting them know, hey, 498 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: you're going to be having sex with somebody that's pretending 499 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: to your stepdad, and those are things you have to 500 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: consider because you don't know if this person was raped 501 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: by their family member, and so maybe a family scenario 502 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 2: would fuck with their heads, Like these are things you 503 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 2: have to think about, like that psychologically could mess up 504 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 2: with somebody, right if it's a rougher scene, like hey, 505 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: do you know that there will be choking because not 506 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: everybody's going to be okay with that. So just making 507 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 2: sure that when they arrived to set, they know who 508 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: their talent is, they approve to their talent, they know 509 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 2: that everyone has been tested and that the tests are 510 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 2: checked in accordance with our STD standards, and that they're 511 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: in a safe location and with a crew that makes 512 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 2: them feel safe, because obviously there's also crew members that 513 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 2: have crossed boundaries in our industry, and so it's just 514 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: making sure that you know, the people that I'm surrounding 515 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 2: myself with on set are going to make the talent 516 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: feel safe, men and the women. 517 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: So does that not happen a lot like or is 518 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: that still a struggle to get people to operate that 519 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: way in the porn industry? 520 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's still No, I mean I do. 521 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: I think that most porn sets are safe. Yes, I do. 522 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: I mean it's hard to say because I don't know 523 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: outside of mine what really goes on and how much thought. 524 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 2: I will say, I'm one of the only directors that 525 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: approves the talent ahead of time. In fact, they're always like, 526 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: I love that you ask. I feel like that should 527 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: be standard practice, but apparently it's not. But I also 528 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: think there is an old schools club mentality where there 529 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 2: is still a level of misogyny. And I don't think 530 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: that's in general, but it is still there. And I 531 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: think when you have people in power that have a 532 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: misogynistic view of women especially, it's not always going to 533 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 2: be the most ethical or safe environment for the women. 534 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that something horrific is happening, yeah, 535 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 2: but it just means that it's just not creating a 536 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: good space for shooting something that's very vulnerable for everyone involved. 537 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 538 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 4: I mean, I think it would be a really easy 539 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 4: mistake to make, like the example that you gave about 540 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 4: the stepfather scene, Like, yeah, it takes a level of 541 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 4: sensitivity to be like, wait, maybe we should make sure 542 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 4: that this is cool. I mean, I have an experience 543 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 4: where I was at this place in Nashville called it's 544 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 4: outside of Nashville. It's called on Site, Okay, and it's 545 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 4: a how would you describe it, Kelly, It's basically like 546 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 4: a mental health retreat place. 547 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a therapeutic Netflix documentary on this place, not 548 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: this one, not that one. 549 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe I'll have to check it out 550 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 3: if they did. 551 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 2: Okay, keep going okay. 552 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 4: So it was I was there with a bunch of 553 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 4: music industry people and they made us we did this 554 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 4: thing where we got broken off into groups, and we 555 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 4: learned about how a family diagram about, like putting our 556 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 4: families down on a two D structure where it was like, okay, 557 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 4: here I am, this is where my mother would be 558 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 4: situated in my family. This is where my sister would be. 559 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 4: This is my father, and like you would put them 560 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 4: in proximity to you based on like your relationships, and 561 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 4: you would make their dot bigger or smaller based on 562 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 4: how much space they took up in the family, you know. 563 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 3: And then we would have to we had. 564 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 4: To like act it out. Once we described our family 565 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 4: structure to our group, we had to act it out. 566 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: We had to assign roles to. 567 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 4: People, and and we were It was done basically unsupervised, 568 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 4: And there was all in one of the groups that 569 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 4: had been sexually assaulted by someone in her family and 570 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,479 Speaker 4: it all came to the top in that moment and 571 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 4: she is screaming at this person who has been assigned 572 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 4: her brother, and there's no supervision, and it was like, 573 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 4: I mean a lot of people in that group ended 574 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 4: up having to go back because they they were inflicted 575 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 4: trauma from that experience because no one imagined that that 576 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 4: situation could arise, you know, and it's like looking back, 577 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 4: like it seems so simple, but yeah, well it was wild. 578 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, that probably happens all the time on porn sets. 579 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of like I mean, and there's 580 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: even things that like seem very banal to like myself 581 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: or maybe even you, like kissing, like I would think 582 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: that would be just Stanford, and it's for some people 583 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 2: it's not like, So there's a lot. I mean, sometimes 584 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: I don't have to check with every porn star like 585 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: can you kiss? Because I've worked with most of these 586 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: people a lot. But if it's somebody new, I do 587 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 2: describe there's a lot of making out and there's a 588 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: lot of this and I contact so that I mean, 589 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 2: maybe they're not okay with that. And you should never 590 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: make the assumption when somebody is getting naked and being 591 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: that vulnerable but you're on the same page with them, 592 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: because you might not be. 593 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that just the connection, I mean, the psychological connection 594 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: to all of this is like what we're talking about 595 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: even and I like people being in porn and being triggered. 596 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: But I think it's also even for the viewers, Like 597 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: there's so many I feel like porn has talked about 598 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: in such a black or white way, like it's either 599 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: good or it's bad. There's no discussion in between. And 600 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: I know, like I struggle with that for a long 601 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: time in my life, like is this healthy for my 602 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: relationship or is it not? You know, like what is 603 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: okay in those situations? And I think everyone kind of 604 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: has to get to that place on their own, but 605 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: having these conversations is so helpful to me, even because 606 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, this is an industry just 607 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: like the industry I work in, which is music, you know, 608 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: entertain but it's all like to put on this show 609 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: to entertain people. But it's just when it comes to 610 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: the sexual aspect, there are a lot of things happening 611 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: for each of us in that experience. So you kind 612 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: of mentioned you mentioned the phoeceest, which I was also 613 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: reading so many articles about how popular that is in 614 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: the porn industry. Why why is that popular? 615 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: I mean I think sex is off limits is always popular, 616 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: so like cheating is popular and those kinds of things. 617 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: But so the phocess is probably as dark as you 618 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: can go without it being illegal. You know, that's the 619 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 2: darkest scenario. 620 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, which like we should just say to the listeners 621 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: PHO sess because I didn't. I was like, what a 622 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: google is wild? Yeah, but it's like it's when you're 623 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: if you're having sex with the step mom or things 624 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: like that. But I was reading that it's like one 625 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: of the most popular things. Like you said you get 626 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: tired of having to write scripts for that, and you've 627 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: mentioned on this podcast you stopped. Okay, why what was 628 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: that about. 629 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't a moral thing. I mean he 630 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 2: just got old. I mean you can only fuck your 631 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: stepmom so many times, like anyways, Like it's just you know, 632 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 2: there is creativity and porn, but like even that will 633 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: tap you. 634 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: You were like, I don't, I don't know. 635 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: There's nothing that ELPs that can be done that it's 636 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: I mean, you know it's brassers, is I think doing 637 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: like stepmoms getting their heads stuck in a laundry machine 638 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: or something. 639 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 6: I'm just like, Okay, we've really just done everything. 640 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 3: Too much. 641 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 2: I'm out. 642 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, once you get down to like second cousin once removed, shit, 643 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 4: you're like we've done it all, Like, this is weird. 644 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 3: I don't even know how they were related anymore. 645 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: The other one I thought was so fascinating was the cuckhold. 646 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 1: Is that how you say it? 647 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 2: Uh huh? Yeah? 648 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: And like how men? Because and this to me is 649 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: such a psychology thing. But it's like in our society, 650 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: men are supposed to be strong and powerful. But then 651 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: that is one of the most number one searched porn 652 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: things for men, heterosexual men to watch, which is basically, 653 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: if they were watching, they're in like a submissive role? 654 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: Is that right? Or not submissive? But like a I 655 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: can't even think of the word, Like you're standing in 656 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: the corner watching your wife have sex with someone else, right, 657 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: is that what that is? 658 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's hot wiping and then there's cuckholding, and the 659 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: cuckholding is usually the more gebrading of the two. 660 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: So but for that to be so widely searched, it's fascinating. 661 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: Is it because that that is not the way that 662 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: that most heterosexual men are allowed to live in society? Yeah? 663 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: I think it is that. And I mean I will 664 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 2: say I help some of the girls with their like 665 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 2: chatting with fans, and most of those fans are cocks, 666 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: and it's interesting there's like a small penis fetish with 667 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: some of them. Okay, So they they get aroused through 668 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: the humiliation, and then the secondary humiliation is the humiliation 669 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: of sharing the person that I am not supposed to 670 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: have ownership over, but like that I'm a partner with 671 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 2: and they're fucking somebody else and I'm being degraded. And 672 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 2: a lot of those men are like in successful jobs. 673 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 2: I mean they're not some you know, loser living in 674 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: this mom's basement, Like they might actually be successful. 675 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I wonder if some of that is driven 676 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 4: by like thinking that your wife is only with you 677 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 4: for your money, you know. 678 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 3: Like hmm, you know, like. 679 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: Why would that arouse somebody? 680 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 4: Look, I don't know, maybe it's maybe it's a justification. 681 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 4: And then it's like it can allow you to see 682 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 4: your wife differently. I don't know, like it's just. 683 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: Like a that seems like that mentality it would validate 684 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: their fears. 685 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe, but. 686 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 2: Some of them get off on the fear. I mean 687 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 2: some of them like the cruelty. Okay, I mean you know, 688 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 2: there's there's this thing called I think it's like rule 689 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 2: fourteen or rules something, and it's like if you can 690 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 2: think it, it exists in porn, and so it's true 691 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 2: like there if there is a fetish for everything because 692 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: somebody has thought about it it. 693 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: So then someone's made the film. Yeah of course. 694 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 695 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: How has working in porn affected your relationship with sex? 696 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: Like has it changed it? 697 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 2: Do you? 698 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 5: Like? 699 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: I feel like if you're on a set all day 700 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: watching people have sex, Like do you go home and 701 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, I'm so horny? Or are 702 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: you like, oh my god, I never want to see 703 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: people have sex again? 704 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 3: Like what I wish everyone could see Jackie's face. I 705 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 3: don't like, I'm like. 706 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 2: No, I don't watch the sax Ago. I'm gonna get late, right, 707 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 2: So I will say, I mean I think it's the 708 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: easiest examples probably to compare it to what turns me 709 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: on in terms of like a fantasy. So like before porn, 710 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 2: I was seeking out porn. Yeah, I don't really unless 711 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 2: it's like really bizarre porn, because I think there's a 712 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: level of decense, like I'm insensitized, Like. 713 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 4: Ill you like break You're like, oh I hate how 714 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 4: that was shot. You know, It's like me going to 715 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 4: a concert, I can't I get like in the nitty 716 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 4: gritty of yes. 717 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,439 Speaker 2: Or you know the person right to well, I don't 718 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 2: want to masturbate, like I just watch her yesterday, like 719 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: you know, so there's that, but I think I'm more 720 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 2: interested in and a lot of the guys I work 721 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: would say the same thing. Like one of my crew 722 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: members was saying he watches Survivor and he finds it 723 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 2: so hot to see the girls in bikinis because it's 724 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 2: like there's there's not a full reveal of the body. 725 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, it's like ooh, what's under there? 726 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 2: And for me, I've gotten really into like rom coms 727 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 2: and romances where it's just a kids and nobody has 728 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: and I'm like. 729 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: Yes, so it's almost done the reverse for you. 730 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 2: With the exception of my porn searches, which are bizarre, 731 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 2: but I'm not masturbating. I think it's just more decentsitization, 732 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 2: Like if you ever want to see something hilarious, just 733 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 2: google mess blow job okay. 734 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: Is doing it right now? 735 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 3: Not on my computer though. 736 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 2: No ya. So we're good to know. 737 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: So does it change the way that you relate to 738 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: sex or has it made you kind of explore your 739 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: own your own relationship. Like we've been talking so much 740 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: about the psychology of sex, but like, has that made 741 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: you ask yourself more questions? Because the more I like 742 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: researched this today, I was like, huh, I wonder why 743 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm drawn of the things I'm drawn to? You, Like 744 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: it was making me ask myself those questions. 745 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 2: I think it I psychologically, it hasn't made me question more. 746 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 2: It's made me more comfortable with my body. Where I 747 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 2: used to be very insecure before porn of like cellulite 748 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 2: or you know, I was just very hyper aware of 749 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,439 Speaker 2: you know, how I looked, or that my makeup wasn't 750 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 2: perfect or those sorts of things. And working in porn 751 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 2: now where there are just it's just everyone is so 752 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 2: comfortable with who they are. I mean, and these girls 753 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 2: are literally naked and they might have cellulite or a 754 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 2: ZiT on their butt, you know. I mean, you don't know, 755 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, like, and nobody in our circle 756 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 2: is judging and so like, because I'm around that lack 757 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 2: of judgment, I'm judging myself less from a physical perspective. Like, 758 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 2: I think it's interesting because I'm working with twenty year 759 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 2: olds that most of them are you know. 760 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: You yeah, right, yeah, that is so interesting, is there? 761 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: What if you had to do one takeaway that you 762 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: have learned from working in porn that surprised you, what 763 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: would it be. 764 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 2: Oh, boy, that there are really good, decent people working 765 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 2: and porn. 766 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was really surprising to us. Remember when we 767 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: talked to Candice, you were so like, you are so 768 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: smart and successful. 769 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 3: I mean everything she said blew my mind. 770 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. 771 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's normal though. I mean there's a 772 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 2: lot of smart people in porn right. 773 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 3: The point, like it's a multi billion dollar business. It 774 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 3: can grow to that. 775 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 4: Idiots Like there idiots in every and every you know, 776 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 4: organization and every sort of career path. But like it's 777 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 4: a it's actually a really innovative industry. It's like, I 778 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 4: mean I've read I've read stuff about the history of 779 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 4: porn where it's like it drove the invention of the VCR, 780 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 4: it drove it drove the popularity the Internet. Like when 781 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 4: you look at something like only fans, like the fact 782 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 4: that other industries didn't figure out only fans and it 783 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 4: was the porn industry that did. It's like we've had 784 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 4: I mean, it's essentially just a digital like fan club. 785 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 4: But these people, yeah, they monetize it and they're like, 786 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 4: we are going to give you what you actually want, 787 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 4: right exactly. 788 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 2: You know. 789 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 4: It's like when you when you look at the popularity 790 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 4: of something like Instagram and all the ship that I 791 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 4: get put in my Discovery feed. It's hot people, but 792 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 4: they all have their clothes on, you know, a very 793 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 4: limited amount of clothing only. Fan was like, oh, well 794 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 4: that's interesting, that's what people want. Let's show people it 795 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:01,800 Speaker 4: and put it behind a paywall. 796 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,399 Speaker 2: And it's brilliant, you know, brilliant, brilliant, and it's done 797 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,839 Speaker 2: a lot for the girls in porn too. I mean 798 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 2: I think Riley Reid is making a million a week 799 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 2: or something like that. Oh my god. Yeah yeah, so 800 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: I mean it is, yeah. 801 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: A million a week. That's what's so fascinating. Like we 802 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: you know, we keep wanting to talk to people in 803 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: this industry because I find it interesting that like we're 804 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: trying to pretend like it could go away at some 805 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: point or something, but it's such a huge industry, like 806 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 1: it's not going anywhere. So to me, it's like the 807 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: more I understand about it, or the more kind of 808 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: just the stuff that we talked about earlier, the misconceptions 809 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: that we debunk, the easier it is to digest or 810 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: have my develop my own relationship with it, versus like 811 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: what I was saying earlier, where you're like, no porn 812 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: is good or porn is bad, like that is just 813 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: way too broad and you just don't know anything about 814 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: the industry when say that, it's. 815 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 3: A really unhealthy way to think about anything. 816 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 4: Though, It's like, I mean, we all need to have 817 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 4: our own relationship with it, and our relationship might be 818 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 4: like it might truly be. I've watched it, it's not 819 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 4: for me. Takes me to a really unhealthy place. But 820 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 4: I think it's more dangerous just to have an opinion 821 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 4: without experiencing it in some way and and gaining some knowledge, 822 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,240 Speaker 4: you know. It's look, I do think there are people 823 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 4: that it's ruined their lives, but it's it's not because 824 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 4: of the porn. It's because of the way that they 825 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 4: interacted with the porn. And there were probably, you know, 826 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 4: plenty of outside influences that were causing them to overinteract 827 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 4: with it, you know, And but that that's the case 828 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 4: for anything. 829 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 3: Video games do the same thing to people. 830 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 2: Every industry can be unhealthy. I mean it's like corporate America. 831 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 2: I remember had the biggest coke problem. I mean, greater 832 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 2: than I've ever seen in porn. People are snorting lines 833 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 2: in their office. I haven't seen that on the porn side. 834 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's just a really easy I mean we 835 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 4: live in a especially in the US, we live in 836 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 4: a very puritanical society, and it's just a really easy 837 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 4: target because there's nudity and sex. 838 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,280 Speaker 3: I think people like anyone have sex. 839 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Well that goes back into what we've been 840 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: talking about with the psychology piece, like what people's relationship 841 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: is or their own understanding of their own journey and 842 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: history or anything like that. Like if you don't have 843 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 1: that understanding within yourself, of course you're going to be 844 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: scared if there's naked girls running around. You know that, 845 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: like your guy can go look at or you know, 846 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,359 Speaker 1: vice versa or whatever. But it's all to me, it's 847 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: all about your own relationship with sex within yourself, right. 848 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I think it's it's good, Like 849 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 2: I wish people could come to set because they would 850 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 2: realize how normal it is and also just how much 851 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 2: more communicative we all are. I mean, I've seen relationships 852 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 2: with people in the business where you talk about jealousy 853 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 2: and you talk about things that like couples outside of 854 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 2: corn might be scared to do that because for whatever reason, 855 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 2: Like there's just we are just talkers and communicators because 856 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 2: we have to have to be for our job. So, 857 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,919 Speaker 2: and that's a huge advantage that we have over most 858 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 2: industries is that there are no real secrets. Yeah, we're 859 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 2: putting it out there. 860 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 3: Maybe maybe you should do a live stream of the shoot, 861 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 3: you know what. 862 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 2: I think that could get a lot of people in trouble. 863 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 2: Oh no, So know what I mean is we kind 864 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 2: of do this with an orgy line that I've been 865 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 2: shooting where we have like hidden cameras, but I always 866 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 2: have to tell the performers, Like guys, anything you say, right, 867 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 2: and so, like you know, because we're so communicative, it's 868 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 2: like you could say something and that's out there. So 869 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 2: I think there's you've got to be careful. 870 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's important. 871 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 2: It is very important. Yeah, especially, Yeah, you don't want 872 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 2: uncensored porn in certain things. 873 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,720 Speaker 3: That makes sense. That makes sense. 874 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,399 Speaker 1: Well, there any backlash you've ever, like when people find 875 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,879 Speaker 1: out what you do for a living. Have you ever 876 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,760 Speaker 1: faced any backlash from anyone? 877 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 2: I mean, I keep it a secret, so I think 878 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 2: that the only people that know are people very close 879 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,399 Speaker 2: to me or like, you know, I had somebody from 880 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 2: from college to find me really saw like a show 881 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 2: time like eighty and Awards that I was presenting or 882 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 2: something like that, and then he was like, oh my god, 883 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 2: but backlash. No. But I it has created a major 884 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 2: risk with my family for sure. Okay, yeah, I mean 885 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 2: because they're. 886 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 7: Very Catholic, very white, very you know that, and they 887 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 7: they've come a long way, but I think they are 888 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 7: very disappointed in my life, and so I I yeah, 889 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 7: I mean, but like the hard thing is, I can't 890 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 7: like I had in early in my career, I was 891 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 7: pretty successful, and I couldn't share those successes with them. 892 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 2: So I can only talk to them about their lives. 893 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 2: But they don't really know about my work or my 894 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 2: life in terms of work. 895 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 3: So it's interesting. 896 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,880 Speaker 4: I mean I can relate to that, for you know, 897 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 4: in a sense from the whole gay thing. It's like 898 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,839 Speaker 4: there were before coming out to my family, like there 899 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 4: was a lot about my life that they didn't know, 900 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,240 Speaker 4: and it was like, but I was still very close 901 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,720 Speaker 4: with them, but they just didn't know a lot about 902 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 4: my life because I assume they didn't want to know, right, 903 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 4: But yeah, this is you know, it's all based on 904 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 4: like fear of being judged and all of those things. 905 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 3: But yeah, I guess. 906 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,800 Speaker 4: You've had to deal with the reality of it because 907 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 4: you told them and they're just pointed. But you know, 908 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 4: it's funny because you know, I'm not a parent, but 909 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,480 Speaker 4: I would always like imagine that if I had kids, 910 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 4: I would I wouldn't give a fuck what they did 911 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 4: as long as they were the best at it. 912 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 3: And the fact that. 913 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 4: You're winning awards and like you had this explosive career 914 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 4: right out of the gate, Like it's like a fuck, 915 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 4: like you you could be living on the street, you 916 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 4: know what I mean. It's like you've made a great 917 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 4: career for yourself. You've also you're iterating, you recognize that 918 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 4: being an actor wasn't your thing, Like you could be 919 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 4: a starving actor waitress, and. 920 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably would be prouder though, Well that's crazy. 921 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 3: I mean, it's crazy. 922 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 4: It's like, I mean, it's I'm proud of you and 923 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 4: I'm proud to call you a friend and I'm glad 924 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:45,800 Speaker 4: we got to reconnect over this. 925 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, well, you guys can find out more about 926 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: Jackie at Jackie Saint James dot com. I'll put the 927 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: link to her website in the description of this podcast. Jackie, 928 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: is there anywhere else that people can find you? 929 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,880 Speaker 2: If they just search for Blessau they can find all 930 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 2: my work on there. Okay, but yeah, yeah, I. 931 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 4: Might have to watch some of your work. I haven't 932 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 4: watched any for this, but I might just have to 933 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 4: check some of it out. 934 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 2: I'll try and find a really good like one of 935 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 2: the reality scenes I shot. 936 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: Oh I want to see this. Yes, yeah, that sounds fascinating. Jackie, 937 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,640 Speaker 1: thank you for being here at us. We love learning 938 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: about this topic, so it's easy when we has a 939 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: relationship already, it's made it much easier to talk about. 940 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: So thank you so much. 941 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 2: Of course, of course, thank you so much for having 942 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:39,239 Speaker 2: me