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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Y'all. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me for this special bonus episode of the Black

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Speaker 1: Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Chopio Wilcoma, and I'm on the Therapy for

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Speaker 2: Black Girls podcast. Today. I'm in session unpacking the organizational

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Speaker 2: psychology of industries Harper Stern, with.

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Speaker 1: Its snow bars held look into the insidious world of

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Speaker 1: investment banking. Many of us fell in love with the

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Speaker 1: HBO Max series Industry, and more specifically, its non traditional

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Speaker 1: lead character, Harper Stern. Harper's brash and unapologetic maneuvering through

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Speaker 1: the gritty political world, set her up as a breakout

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Speaker 1: character for the series and an interesting and unexpected deviation

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Speaker 1: from the strong black woman trope. While the chaos of

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Speaker 1: our character keeps our eyes glued for every minute of

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Speaker 1: the show, I wanted to unpack and explore the dynamics

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Speaker 1: that create and enable a person like Harper to exist

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Speaker 1: in the first place. Joining me for this conversation is

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Speaker 1: organizational psychologists Tropia Wacoma, who speaks to how relationships with

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Speaker 1: organizations and communities impact how individuals show up in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: During our conversation, we unpack Harper's journey across three seasons,

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Speaker 1: reflecting on what her victories and challenges at Peerpoint might

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Speaker 1: teach us about our own workplaces. If something resonates with

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Speaker 1: you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on

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Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag TBG in session or join

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Speaker 1: us over in the sister circle to talk more about

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Speaker 1: the episode. You can join us at community dot therapy

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Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me today, Trophia.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, doctor Joy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's exciting to chat with you. I know we're

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Speaker 1: going to get all into one of my new favorite shows,

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Speaker 1: but before that, can we talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what exactly is organizational psychology and how how do you

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Speaker 1: use it to assess work environments.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm always happy to talk about industrial organizational psychology,

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Speaker 2: and what iowe psychology is is the study of people

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Speaker 2: in the workplace. So we take a scientific lens to

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Speaker 2: understanding people, problems, organizations, and overall strategy in the workplace,

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Speaker 2: and then using evidence based practices to support hr leaders

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Speaker 2: in the business and overall and achieving what the business

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Speaker 2: sets out to achieve. So that's a lot of business

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Speaker 2: talk for saying we really try to help organizations hire

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Speaker 2: the right people, develop the right people, put the right

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Speaker 2: processes and systems in place so that businesses can do

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Speaker 2: whatever they set out to do originally.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of like as individuals and couples and families,

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Speaker 1: maybe we go to a different kind of psychologists with

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Speaker 1: businesses when they are wanting to function healthily, they would

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Speaker 1: go to an industrial organizational psychologist exactly.

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Speaker 2: So they'll go to an industrial organizational psychologists or have

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Speaker 2: them embedded in their workplace.

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Speaker 1: Got it? Got it? Okay? And so I know there's

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Speaker 1: been lots of conversations around like employee engagement, employee satisfaction.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit about how you

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Speaker 1: all measure and in assess for that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, this is one of my favorite topics. I

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Speaker 2: started off my career working in employee surveys employee engagement.

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Speaker 2: But what that typically looks like in your workplace is

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Speaker 2: your organization will send out an annual or quarterly or

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Speaker 2: sometimes just on demand survey asking you to share about

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Speaker 2: your experiences in the workplace, and based on those responses,

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Speaker 2: there are measures embedded in that survey that allow the

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Speaker 2: organization to understand how engage employees are. And when we're

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Speaker 2: talking about engagement, we're talking about if an employee likes

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Speaker 2: working there, if they're willing to go above and beyond,

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Speaker 2: if they find meaning in their work, if they feel

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Speaker 2: like they have autonomy and growth opportunities, and if they

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Speaker 2: feel like they're connected to others. Those things drive engagement.

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Speaker 2: So you'll see on employee surveys they'll measure those things

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Speaker 2: to at the overall sentiment of what an employee engagement

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Speaker 2: looks like in the organization, and then based on that

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Speaker 2: you'll see different activities occur focused on closing that gap.

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Speaker 2: You might see new training initiatives, you might see new

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Speaker 2: communication and initiatives, new growth opportunities. The survey reveals what

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Speaker 2: they should do. So this is a plug. If you

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Speaker 2: work for an organization that cares enough to survey, you,

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Speaker 2: please participate in the survey. I know people get nervous

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Speaker 2: about if they're anonymous or not, or if their responses

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Speaker 2: are confidential, or they'll be treated punitively because of the results.

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Speaker 2: I would say typically that's not the case, but your

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Speaker 2: feedback is used to make your organization a better place.

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Speaker 1: I'm really glad you saying that, because that was definitely

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Speaker 1: gonna be my follow up question, right, especially if there

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Speaker 1: are questions on there where they're supposed to be anonymous. Right,

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Speaker 1: But like, if I'm the only black woman in my

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Speaker 1: unit and there's some conversation or question about like diversity

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Speaker 1: or do you feel like your managers you know, respond

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Speaker 1: to you will. Is it okay to be completely honest,

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Speaker 1: especially if you feel like you're not going to be

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Speaker 1: really anonymous.

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Speaker 2: I would say it depends, of course. Always advocate for

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Speaker 2: protecting yourself. Do what you feel comfortable with. But here's

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Speaker 2: some things you can look for in speaking up on

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Speaker 2: your employee survey. If that survey is coming from a

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Speaker 2: third party, not from your organization, then that means someone

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Speaker 2: else is going to see the results before your organization,

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Speaker 2: so you should feel protected. But typically survey results are

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Speaker 2: not reported unless there's enough people responding to the survey

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Speaker 2: for them to cut the data down so that it

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Speaker 2: cannot isolate one person. So let's say that you are

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Speaker 2: the only person in your organization and you're answering a

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Speaker 2: question about diversity, it shouldn't be able to drill down

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Speaker 2: and isolate your scores. Typically the threshold is we need

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Speaker 2: three or five people to have responded to particular survey

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Speaker 2: item or within a particular demographic in order to report

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Speaker 2: out on it.

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Speaker 1: Got it, Well, that's super helpful to know. I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that, So I'm sure that will be helpful to

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Speaker 1: other people. Thank you. So what typical character profiles that

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Speaker 1: you find in any given workplace are, specifically in the

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Speaker 1: world of finance, and which one would you say is

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Speaker 1: harper if so?

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Speaker 2: Wow? Okay, So there is a multitude of personalities that

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Speaker 2: we see in the workplace, especially in the world of finance.

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Speaker 2: So what you might come across in finance is usually

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Speaker 2: goal oriented people, ambitious people, people who like some clarity,

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Speaker 2: people who are excel who are driven by numbers. Harper

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Speaker 2: stands out to me because she strikes me as a

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Speaker 2: high potential amongst high potential people. If you think about

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Speaker 2: who's drawn to the world of finance, they tend to

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Speaker 2: look for people who can operate in high pressured environments,

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Speaker 2: who are willing to go above and beyond to succeed

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Speaker 2: in the workplace, who are interested in advancing their careers overall.

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Speaker 2: And so we see Harper in her initial season. She

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Speaker 2: brings that to the table. Right, this is a person

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Speaker 2: she hasn't graduated from college, but she's saying, Hey, I

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Speaker 2: want to enter into this world, and I know that

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Speaker 2: I can do it. I'm going to do it. No

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Speaker 2: one has to tell me that indicates this is a

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Speaker 2: high potential person. But Harper's profile overall does mirror what

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Speaker 2: we would expect to see in finance. That goal oriented,

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Speaker 2: ambitious professional.

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Speaker 1: Got it. So I'm here, Ashpia, what is your initial

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Speaker 1: read of industry? And like the workplace that we see

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Speaker 1: in Peerpoint, so as an inside of looking out, I

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Speaker 1: am not at all connected to finance. Most often, I

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Speaker 1: do not understand anything that they're talking about, but it

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Speaker 1: always feels very dramatic, right like it very dramatic, feels

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Speaker 1: very stressful. This feels like a very toxic workplace to

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Speaker 1: work in. What's your initial read as a professional of

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Speaker 1: the workplace environment we see in Peerpoint?

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Speaker 2: I do agree it strikes me as a toxic workplace

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Speaker 2: where not all would be able to thrive. There are

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Speaker 2: people who are attracted to that type of workplace where

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Speaker 2: there are some gray lines and there's not so much

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Speaker 2: restrictions in terms of day to day behaviors. You see

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Speaker 2: restrictions and regulation regarding the work that they do, but

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Speaker 2: not in how they work with each other overall. For me,

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Speaker 2: I would say that is not an environment in which

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Speaker 2: I would find enjoyable. I think this is another plug

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Speaker 2: for understanding yourself, understanding what makes you tick, Understanding what

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Speaker 2: you're trying to accomplish in your career and your overall

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Speaker 2: goals and objectives, Understanding the type of people you need

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Speaker 2: to work with to accomplish those goals, in order to

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Speaker 2: understand the culture you're going to best fit in and

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Speaker 2: the type of work you're going to be able to

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Speaker 2: do so that if you're placed in an environment like

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Speaker 2: what we see Harper works in at her workplace, that

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Speaker 2: you're actually able to thrive and excel versus being in

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Speaker 2: that type of an environment and being like, Okay, wait

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Speaker 2: a second, I don't operate like this. I don't show what,

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Speaker 2: I don't talk to people crazy, I don't color in

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Speaker 2: between the lines. This is not for me. It's all

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Speaker 2: about knowing yourself and understanding what you're trying to accomplish,

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Speaker 2: so that you know what makes sense for you to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and as an organizational psychologist, like, what role could

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Speaker 1: you see yourself or if somebody like you playing enhancing

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Speaker 1: team dynamics kind of like the ones we see with

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Speaker 1: Popper and her teammates at peerpoints, So enhancing team dynamics

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Speaker 1: as well as improving communication.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so iopsychologists play a role in those type of

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Speaker 2: environments on a day to day basis. So in terms

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Speaker 2: of team dynamics, that might look like administering some personality

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Speaker 2: assessments to individuals on the team so that we can

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Speaker 2: better understand what drives them, what motivates them, what makes

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Speaker 2: them tick, how they tend to show up bringing the

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Speaker 2: team together so that they're able to get insight into

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Speaker 2: each other's preferred style, each other's preferences, each other's traits,

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Speaker 2: drivers motives, and then using that to help the team

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Speaker 2: understand how to best work with each other. So in

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Speaker 2: thinking about industry, we see there's a point where people

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Speaker 2: push back on Rishi and they're like, you make us uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, I thought I was funny. In

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Speaker 2: a team dynamics setting, where you're looking at actual traits

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Speaker 2: and personality and you're looking at people's preferred style, natural preferences,

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Speaker 2: you're able to dig into that so that the organization

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Speaker 2: or the team can have conversations. They can put everything

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Speaker 2: on the table and say, all right, we get this

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Speaker 2: is how you are. That helps me understand you better.

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Speaker 2: I know how to better relate to you. But now

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Speaker 2: you understand who I am, you understand my boundaries. And

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Speaker 2: then from there, ideally the team establishes ways of working

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Speaker 2: so that they're able to move forward in a healthy

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Speaker 2: manner in pursuit of their overall goals or excellence for

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Speaker 2: the team or organization.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the word boundaries, and I think that that

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Speaker 1: is a big one for the environments that we see

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Speaker 1: at Peerpoint right in on industry because it feels like

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Speaker 1: they're just countless boundary violations. That's a large part of

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Speaker 1: what it feels like is going on that even as

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Speaker 1: some of the first years are coming in, it feels

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Speaker 1: like they are being groom to have their boundaries violated

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Speaker 1: in lots of different ways. So how would a professional

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Speaker 1: come in and talk with an organization about helping the

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Speaker 1: team to do a better job of managing boundaries?

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Speaker 2: Well, Number one, in an organization like Peerpoint, they have

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Speaker 2: certain guidelines established and you see throughout the series when

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Speaker 2: Eric will pull them into a room for and he

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, we have to be here for fifteen

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Speaker 2: minutes to talk about this. Right. So they're good about like,

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Speaker 2: let's look to policy to determine what we're going to do,

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Speaker 2: but to actually live that on a day to day

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Speaker 2: basis and say all right, no, we're not going to

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Speaker 2: push ethical guidelines, We're not going to push ethic lines.

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Speaker 2: We're not going to tiptoe through the lines and demand

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Speaker 2: that that happens. We don't see We see Eric say

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Speaker 2: things like oh no, we got to know where the

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Speaker 2: red line is. But when people tiptoe on it, he

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Speaker 2: cares for some people, he doesn't care for others, So

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Speaker 2: it's really holding true to that, recognizing people who uphold

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Speaker 2: the behavior. So we know this is a goal oriented

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Speaker 2: organization where people like to be celebrated and they want

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Speaker 2: to be known for the best, holding up those individuals

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Speaker 2: who exhibit the right behaviors, rewarding them, compensating them from

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Speaker 2: exhibiting those behaviors, doing things like hiring people who are

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Speaker 2: going to promote living or operating, or not pushing back

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Speaker 2: against boundaries. There's just certain things organizations can do to

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Speaker 2: support creating intentional environments around things like not tiptoeing the

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Speaker 2: lines on boundaries.

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Speaker 1: So something else sopia that we hear in common language,

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Speaker 1: I think is being your authentic self in the workplace, right,

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Speaker 1: and I think there's less of discussion around what that

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Speaker 1: looks like and depending on your background, how yourself can

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Speaker 1: you be? Can you say something about how organizational psychology

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Speaker 1: informs people about how to show up in their workplaces?

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so there's been a great deal of research

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Speaker 2: done around this. Myself and a friend did some research

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Speaker 2: around being authentic in the workplace, and our research found

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Speaker 2: that at the director plus level underrepresentative groups feel comfortable

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Speaker 2: showing up exactly as who they are. They're no longer

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Speaker 2: masking earlier in your career. It's all about assimulating. I

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Speaker 2: have a good friend who just wrote an amazing book

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Speaker 2: on this topic, and it's about how we tend to

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Speaker 2: learn how to navigate the unwritten rules of the workplace.

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Speaker 2: Organizational psychology tells us right that there is the need

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Speaker 2: to do both. There's the need to be authentic, understand

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Speaker 2: who you are, Understand what you're trying to accomplish. But

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Speaker 2: organizations do have a coolture that require understanding and navigating

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Speaker 2: in order to achieve your overall goals. In our work

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Speaker 2: that we've done, the research we've done around authenticity, what

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Speaker 2: we've actually been trying to land at is perhaps when

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Speaker 2: organizations say be authentic, that's not the word that they're

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Speaker 2: supposed to be using, or that's not the word that

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Speaker 2: they mean to use. Because is the American workplace truly

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Speaker 2: ready for all individuals to show up as their authentic

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Speaker 2: self in the workplace? I would wager not. But what

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Speaker 2: we are told is yes, kind of exactly as who

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Speaker 2: you fully are, and you're going to be embraced. We

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Speaker 2: see even in industry how there is pushback against that,

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Speaker 2: Like people show up as who they are and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't work, Reashie, he's just being who he is, but

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Speaker 2: it does not work for good or bad.

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Speaker 1: So what word do you think they mean to use

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Speaker 1: or what would be a better word in your mind

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Speaker 1: for what people are really meaning when they say, come

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Speaker 1: and be your authentic self?

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Speaker 2: Now that I am still toying around with, still trying

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Speaker 2: to determine what that word is, but I think what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, really there's an asterisk. Show up as your

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Speaker 2: best self for work, Show up as authentically you are

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Speaker 2: as appropriate for work.

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Speaker 1: M right, right, but still fit in kind of with

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Speaker 1: the culture here.

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Speaker 2: M so just fit in be you, but not too

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Speaker 2: much but not too much of you?

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Speaker 1: Right right, right right. More from our conversation after the break. So,

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Speaker 1: in many ways we see Harper's journey is one of isolation.

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Speaker 1: She's a double minority in her field, living in a

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Speaker 1: foreign country and competing at a high level, with a

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Speaker 1: considerable disadvantage in not having her degree. As you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: from this angle, do you feel like Harper faced challenges

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Speaker 1: in terms of diversity and inclusion? And how have these

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Speaker 1: experiences affected her professional growth.

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Speaker 2: Harper definitely faced challenges in terms of diversity and inclusion.

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Speaker 2: Some of those you see had to do with her

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Speaker 2: mindset around not having that degree and what she was

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Speaker 2: willing to do to prove herself as worthy due to

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Speaker 2: not having that degree or not necessarily being similar to

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Speaker 2: the others in her class that she came in with.

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Speaker 2: In terms of diversity inclusion, you do see it. It's

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Speaker 2: a very subtle undertone where people are willing to take

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Speaker 2: her under their wing, and sometimes you're like, all right,

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Speaker 2: some of that has to do with Harper her personality,

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Speaker 2: but then you also understand that might have to do

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Speaker 2: with some inclusion efforts. But you also see in later

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Speaker 2: seasons Harper's demographics comes into play where it's like, all right,

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Speaker 2: she's been taken under people's wings, she's been coached, she's

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Speaker 2: been mentored, but now she's become who they've mentored her

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Speaker 2: to be, and that's not really received well.

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Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of conversations we've had on

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Speaker 1: the podcast with another organizational psychologist, doctor Keisha Thomas, about

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Speaker 1: pets a threat, right, and so we will groom you

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Speaker 1: and you're a golden child for a little while until

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Speaker 1: it seems as though you're a threat now to others

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Speaker 1: in the organizations. What would you say there, Yes.

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Speaker 2: And I absolutely adore doctor Keisha Thompson, so shouts out

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Speaker 2: to her. But yes, it's exactly that, right. Someone takes

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Speaker 2: you under your wing. They want to develop you, they

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Speaker 2: want to mentor you. They want to say they played

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Speaker 2: a role in your development, but not too much. Don't

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Speaker 2: go past your mentor, don't exceed your mentor until their demise.

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Speaker 2: And where we saw some conflict between Harper and Eric

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Speaker 2: was she grew up too fast, too soon, too early,

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Speaker 2: and Eric was not having that, although it seemed to

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Speaker 2: be masked under oh no, she's doing these unethical things.

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Speaker 2: But we do see that Eric tends to promote that

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Speaker 2: in some cases, although in other cases he slaps wrists.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how would you say you've seen Harper's leadership

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Speaker 1: style really develop throughout the seasons of Industry?

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Speaker 2: Ah? Yes, that's one of my favorite parts. You saw

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Speaker 2: Harper not being able to necessarily command respect or have

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Speaker 2: people do what she wants them to do in earlier seasons,

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Speaker 2: and by the end of it, she's calling the shots.

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Speaker 2: What comes to mind is that scene with Harper and

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Speaker 2: Eric where they're sitting in the restaurants and she tells Eric,

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Speaker 2: look at me in my face, like you're going to

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Speaker 2: answer all of my calls, and now that he's her client,

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Speaker 2: he has to. Or when she's hiring for Levia than Alpha,

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Speaker 2: and she's able to have the conversation with Rishi and Sweetpea,

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Speaker 2: and you see her taking a more command control, authoritarian

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Speaker 2: style about what's going to happen while still be inflexible.

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Speaker 2: We definitely see growth in there versus the more passive,

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Speaker 2: unsure approach that we may have seen in earlier seasons,

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Speaker 2: or even at the beginning of season three when she's

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Speaker 2: first working at her new firm and she wants to

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Speaker 2: be promoted from answering the phones and managing her boss's

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Speaker 2: diaries to actually trading, and at that time she's just

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Speaker 2: there to do the bidding and she's like, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: here to do whatever for you. Towards the end of

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Speaker 2: the season, she's calling the shots.

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Speaker 1: Something that I think could be interesting and if you'll

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Speaker 1: engage me in like a bit of a thought exercise

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Speaker 1: for this. So, like you said, sometimes io psychologists are

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Speaker 1: embedded within the organization and I feel like they even

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Speaker 1: played with that a little bit at peer Point, though

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Speaker 1: you didn't really see like a full session with gun

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Speaker 1: in house psychologists. But if you were like embedded in

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Speaker 1: a system like Peerpoint and somebody like Harper came to

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Speaker 1: you with the story she has around, like the relationship

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Speaker 1: she's burned with her mentor Eric we see with Petra

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Speaker 1: with Jesse, like she has a lot of relationships that

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Speaker 1: were once very significant and solid and then somehow she

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Speaker 1: ends up torching. It feels like the relationships. If she

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Speaker 1: came to you and you were embedded in a peer Point,

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Speaker 1: what kind of things might you talk with her about

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Speaker 1: the way she might advance up a corporate latter in

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Speaker 1: a place like Peerpoint.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would have Harper do some self exploration exercises

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Speaker 2: to understand what motivates her and understand who she is,

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Speaker 2: because Harper strikes me as the type to like to

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Speaker 2: take risks and call her outside the line. I would

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Speaker 2: tell her, let's create a plan for having you succeed

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Speaker 2: at peer Point, but let's create an exit strategy for

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Speaker 2: you to find an organization that's better suited for you.

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Speaker 2: Because the hierarchical nature of a place like peerpoint, it

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Speaker 2: may not work best for someone with Harper's style. Even

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Speaker 2: at the end of season three with her working with

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Speaker 2: Petra and she's excited about collaborating and having someone to

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Speaker 2: bounce things off of. I kept thinking to myself, that

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Speaker 2: might be great for Harper to do. She probably needs that.

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Speaker 2: But there are just certain personality types, and we look

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Speaker 2: for this when we're assessing leaders and we're looking for

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Speaker 2: who has the potential to succeed at higher levels. We

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Speaker 2: look for individuals who are high on what we call

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Speaker 2: like independence, and they are risk takers and they're willing

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Speaker 2: to blaze the trail for others, and they're comfortable being

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Speaker 2: the only people. They don't need the support of others.

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Speaker 2: They are fine operating solo. They don't need to the

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Speaker 2: crowd to be excited with them or to be thrilled

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Speaker 2: with them. They are driven by their passions and their

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Speaker 2: convictions and they're going to pursue it at all costs,

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Speaker 2: and that's okay to be. We see those people tend

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Speaker 2: to struggle earlier in their careers, like we see with Harper,

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Speaker 2: where there is that tension around all right, I like

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Speaker 2: to do my own thing. I like to take risk.

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Speaker 2: I'm rewarded for it, sometimes I'm punished for it. What

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Speaker 2: do I do? I think the coaching around Harper is,

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Speaker 2: what is it you're trying to accomplish with your career.

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Speaker 2: Let's map out the experiences you need to have to

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Speaker 2: get there, and then let's find the best place for

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Speaker 2: you to be in order to have the career experience

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Speaker 2: you want and mitigate those low points that we see

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate you sharing some of these scholarship around

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Speaker 1: leadership because I can imagine there may be people enjoying

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Speaker 1: this conversation now who find themselves in a particular place

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Speaker 1: right like, maybe they are struggling earlier in their career

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Speaker 1: because there is this leadership potential. Can you say a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about how someone might identify whether they

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Speaker 1: have some of these leadership skills and how they can

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Speaker 1: navigate their career until maybe they're ready for an exit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's going to vary from organization. Organization

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Speaker 2: research around potential is not quite clear yet, where we

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Speaker 2: don't have a uniform or a universal model for determining

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Speaker 2: who has potential to succeed at higher levels. So right

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Speaker 2: now it's done for each organization. But if you're interested

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Speaker 2: in that, I would ask their a leader, ask hr

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Speaker 2: you could do some research around what we look like

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Speaker 2: or what we tend to look for potential. But it

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Speaker 2: does involve doing things like individuals raising their hand to

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Speaker 2: take on more work, which I know in our community

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Speaker 2: we say only take the work on that you have

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Speaker 2: been assigned, that you're paid for. When we're looking for

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Speaker 2: individuals who have the potential to seceed at higher levels,

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Speaker 2: it's hey, they're aspirations. Are they raising their hands to

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Speaker 2: do things that they're not asked to do. We also

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Speaker 2: look at things like is this an individual that likes

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Speaker 2: to get things done themselves or do they bring others

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Speaker 2: on to do it? Are they comfortable delegating to others

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Speaker 2: or do they want to be the best subject matter

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Speaker 2: expert doing all the things or are they the person

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Speaker 2: that bring the people together to do the things. They'll

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Speaker 2: look at like political savviness. Does this person know how

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Speaker 2: to navigate the organization, Do they know how to connect

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Speaker 2: with others in the organization and across the enterprise so

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Speaker 2: that they can get things done effectively, or do they

437
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 2: stick to a small group. There's are certain things that

438
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 2: indicate that the person will be able to get things

439
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 2: done more broadly for the organization, and it usually has

440
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: to do with taking risks, raising their hands to take

441
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: on work, having a broad network of people to go

442
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: to to get things done, being a visionary inspiring person,

443
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: like how are you going to communicate what it is

444
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: that you want to get done and get others behind it.

445
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 2: So some things in the relationship and interpersonal space and

446
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: communication space also shows up.

447
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the conversations around is it

448
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: okay to raise your hands to take on extra work?

449
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: Because I definitely think I see a lot of TikTok

450
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: in particular conversations around like doing the bare minimum network,

451
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: like you don't want to be doing too much. You

452
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: don't want a girl boss too close to the sun, right,

453
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: Like it's a joke win I see often, And I

454
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: wonder if there is a balance, because it does feel

455
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: like sometimes companies take advantage of this idea of people

456
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: who want to strive for leadership, right, So is there

457
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: a balance of raising your hand enough to show potential

458
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: without a company exploiting that interest.

459
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely there is a balance, and I would say this

460
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: advice is not for all organizations right, This tends to

461
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: be for your larger global organizations in which there are

462
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: truly growth and development opportunities. There are organizations I've seen

463
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: who take advantage of a person who raises their hands

464
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: and wants to put more on their plate without getting

465
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: paid for it, and organizations will do that if you're

466
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 2: not clear on what you're trying to accomplish. To mitigate

467
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: that occurring, I would say again, understand what you're trying

468
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: to accomplish when you're raising your hand to do things,

469
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: and make sure the things you're raising your hand to

470
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: do are in support of a larger vision, of a

471
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: larger picture. What you're trying to do when you are

472
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: raising your hand to take on additional work is you're

473
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: trying to demonstrate skill set or expertise beyond your that

474
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: your role may not allow you to showcase. So when

475
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: they are considering promotion or leadership opportunities, they're able to say, oh,

476
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: this person has that, because we've seen them do it

477
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: in these other spaces. You also want to be clear

478
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: as you're doing it. You want to be communicating with

479
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: your leader or hr or mentors or coaches a little

480
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: bit about your why behind some of the things you're

481
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: chasing after and what you're learning from these experiences. So

482
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: you're doing it in a very strategical way. It's not

483
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 2: just raising your hand and putting everything on your plate

484
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: because you're wanting to show that you're a good go

485
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: to person for everything. You're being strategic about your approach

486
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: and determining all right, I one day want to be

487
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: a CEO. I know right now I'm an IT expert.

488
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: In order to be CEO, I need to have experience

489
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: in finance. I need to have experience leading a budget.

490
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: So let me go lead this ERG that has this

491
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: big budget. Let me make sure I'm in charge of

492
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 2: the budget so I can say I oversaw a P

493
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: and L and I'm able to get ex experience in

494
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: it before I move on to whatever else that it

495
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 2: is that I'm trying to do.

496
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: So the plan behind the why it sounds like it's really.

497
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: Important, very important.

498
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: Got it more from our conversation after the break. So

499
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: something else that we hear about is emotional intelligence, And

500
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts about the role maybe

501
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence please for Harper and her ability to navigate

502
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: a workspace.

503
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: Harper and emotional intelligence. She's interesting because I feel like

504
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: she's got a good read on people. She knows when

505
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: to pull back, but then she also sometimes just takes

506
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: decision to not necessarily pay attention to it. We see

507
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: and how she's able to interact with her clients and

508
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: just get what she wants done. We see her lean

509
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: into her ability to understand what motivates people. Harper can

510
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: do nothing else well. She knows how to align her

511
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: agenda with the agenda of others, and that involves really

512
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: understanding them. I think Harper does a good job of

513
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: knowing more about people than she might reveal about herself,

514
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: which allows her to understand how to navigate, and that

515
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: involves emotional intelligence.

516
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: I really agree with that assessment because it does feel

517
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: like she is a bit of a chameleon, right Like

518
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: it feels like she can become whoever she needs depending

519
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: on who the client is. What suggestions would you have

520
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: for people about how to develop their own emotional intelligence.

521
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: It's being clear on what emotional intelligence is and understanding

522
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: how it applies to you and the work that you're doing.

523
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: I think for all people, you can never go wrong

524
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 2: with emotional intelligence. There are assessments out there that can

525
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: allow you to understand where you're sitting with emotional intelligence.

526
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: Emotional intelligence is one of those things that we're not

527
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: a good judge of ourselves about. So what will involve

528
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: asking people when we're talking about emotional intelligence, it's how

529
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: do you read the room? When you walk into a room?

530
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: How do you understand stand how you need to show

531
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: up given the situation? What is your read on how

532
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: you might need to adjust? Are you understanding where others

533
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: are coming from? And you're only going to know that

534
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: about asking others. So it involves asking your friends, your family,

535
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: your peers to give you feedback and how you're showing up.

536
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 2: So it's asking, hey, in given situations, what might have

537
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: helped me better help you? What might have helped me

538
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: better show up in that situation? And you're gonna get feedback.

539
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: The key there is not to just adjust all the

540
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 2: way and lose yourself and not be authentic to who

541
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: you are, and as you're developing, it's also being keenly

542
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: aware of who you are, but understanding where you might

543
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: need to give and where you might need to take

544
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: in order to achieve your goals given a situation, so.

545
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: Early in the conversation. You identified Harper and others who

546
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: might be drawn to Finance as high potential, and I

547
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: think what we also maybe see with that is definitely

548
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: present in Peerpoint is like high stress, high pressure. Can

549
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about how how all people

550
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: who may be high potential might be able to manage

551
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: their stress and really have outlets for coping given that

552
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: they are maybe attracted to these kinds of environments.

553
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: I want to use the term goal oriented individuals, individuals

554
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: who are attracted to those high stress environments with quick

555
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: wins is to me what strikes me as an ideal

556
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: like Peerpoint finance individual and your question was around managing stress,

557
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: be well rounded, have outlets outside of work so that

558
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: you can remember who you are and so that you

559
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: can manage the stress in environments like that, metrics driven

560
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: environments where they're arguing about sales credit, where it's very

561
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 2: clear on who's performing, and how it can easily become

562
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: your entire world. We saw in season one there is

563
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: a person who worked himself into his unfortunate demise. What

564
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: you'll have to do in those type of environments is

565
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: have clear boundaries, know when to unplug. Environments like that

566
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: will often require you to work nights and weekends, but

567
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: put some parameters around it. Maybe it's only work late

568
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: nights twice a week, only, work weekends every other weekend.

569
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 2: Put some boundaries around it, and then have non work

570
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: related outlets. Join extracurricular activities. Make sure you have friend groups.

571
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: Make sure you have things like a therapist on call

572
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: or a life coach, or a safe place to process

573
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: your feelings and emotions so that you're thinking about life

574
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: outside of your work, so that you are able to

575
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: show up the best version of you in the workplace.

576
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: Your goal here is to get outside of the bubble

577
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: of work because research has shown us that the individuals

578
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: who perform the best it's not just being heads down,

579
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: tunnel vision focused on your work. To be most effective

580
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: in your work, you do have to come up for air,

581
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: breathe a little bit, speak to others, take stock of

582
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: the landscape around you, and then that'll open the doors

583
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: for better ideas, better thinking, better strategy around your day

584
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: to day work, no matter what your data day work.

585
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: Maybe you know.

586
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: The other thing it feels like it would be important

587
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: to set some boundaries around is substance use. Because of course,

588
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: an industry. I mean, this is a dramaticize show, right,

589
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: but it does feel like there was a lot of

590
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: substance use in the workplace and outside you know ed

591
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: client dinners and all of these other things, and so

592
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: it feels like that's something to pay attention to as well.

593
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: That is definitely something to pay attention to. So let

594
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: me put an asterisk beside outlets outside of work, let's

595
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: say healthy coping mechanisms. In an industry you see a

596
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: prevalence of alcohol usage, substance abuse, gambling, things like that

597
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: to manage the stress, which, again, in this type of workplace,

598
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: people are chasing those quick fixes rather than the things

599
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: that we know will support you long term, and those

600
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: are those agil things nobody likes to hear. Drink your water,

601
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: go out for a run, sit in the sun, journal,

602
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: Those things go a long way. And if you put

603
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: those practices in place early on and make them routine,

604
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: you hopefully won't get to a point where you're having

605
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: to turn to other mechanisms to cope. And of course

606
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: there's all sorts of nuances with this, with different health

607
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: issues or different genetic factors and traits. But ideally, doing

608
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: things like working out, running, journaling, getting in some sun,

609
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: having loved ones, whatever that might look like for you

610
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: around you will provide healthy outlets for you to manage

611
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: stress in the workplace.

612
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: Tobya, how would you say you've seen Harper's sense of

613
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: belonging and identity shift throughout the seasons of industry.

614
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: So throughout industry when we saw her season one, she

615
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: was just hoping to make it right. And then you

616
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: put her against someone like Yasmin, who seems like she

617
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: belongs in a way, which is interesting because Yasmin two

618
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily belong. You see, Harper's just looking for her

619
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: place or a sense of belonging in season one, by

620
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: the in a sense, in season Threepper is running the

621
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: thing and facilitating belonging for others. I particularly like how

622
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: she brought sweet Pea in at the end. So where

623
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: sweet Pea was this person? When we first see Sweetpea,

624
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: she just seems as out of place as anyone else here.

625
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: She is on the floor trying to record content and

626
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: they're like, we don't do this here. You even see

627
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: in that conversation with Rishi, He's like she has an

628
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: OnlyFans account, and Harper's like the times have changed, and

629
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: I think something that is a pertinent call out for

630
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: all of us is the times are changing. Whereas initially

631
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: Harper was trying to assimilate into a white, male predominated

632
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: field where it was encouraged to be like them, towards

633
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: the end of season three, it's like, all right, the

634
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: times are changing, and what has worked in the past

635
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: is not going to work in the future. We're shifting

636
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: with the times. Harper's facilitating that for others rather than

637
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: standing up age old stereotypes and saying, no, this is

638
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 2: how we all need to look like or show up

639
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: in order to be people in finance.

640
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: M You know, I appreciate you saying that, because it

641
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: does feel like in season one, like it does not

642
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: feel like racial solidarity is very important to Harper at all, right,

643
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: Like we see Gus is the other, very obvious other

644
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: black person in the workplace. I mean, it doesn't feel

645
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: like there's much of a kinship necessarily, right, like I

646
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: think that you would expect if there are only a

647
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: couple of you rights we tend to find one another

648
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: in the workplace. It doesn't feel at all that Harper

649
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: is interested in it. But we do see in later

650
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: seasons that she and Gus do develop more of a

651
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: relationship and have kind of private jokes that like even

652
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: Rob is left out of. What does organizational psychology have

653
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: to say about interracial workplace dynamics?

654
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in the workplace, if you feel a

655
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 2: sense of connection, if you feel a sense of belonging,

656
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: you're going to perform better than individuals who don't have

657
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: that right. If you see yourself in that organization, if

658
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: you feel connected, if you have a friend at work,

659
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: you feel like you have an outlet, you're going to

660
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 2: perform better than others who are just standing on their own.

661
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: So organizational psychology tells us that the workplace needs to

662
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: facilitatennecting individuals, and then individuals in the workplace should seek

663
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 2: out that sense of connection. When we see individuals who

664
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 2: still connected, like they have a best friend at work,

665
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 2: like they see others similar to them in that workplace,

666
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: that's going to increase their likelihood of staying with that organization.

667
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: Of feeling excited when they go to work, feeling engaged

668
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: when they go to work, that feeling of wanting to

669
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: go above and beyond it shows up more so there

670
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: than for an individual who feels like they're isolated and

671
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: no one really cares if they're at work or not.

672
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: No one really cares about them as individuals.

673
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: So it feels like the through line relationship we really

674
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: see exploited industry is this relationship between Harper and Yasmin.

675
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: As you've talked about before. Complicated, I think is the

676
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: best word I could use for the relationship between Yasmin

677
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: and Harper. And I wonder what were your thoughts on

678
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: watching it, thinking about it as a professional, What do

679
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: you feel like it really said about women's relationships in

680
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: the workplace that we saw through the relationship with Yasmin

681
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: and Harper.

682
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: I thought that just a very interesting dichotomy between Harper

683
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: and Yasmin. You have two people who are both working

684
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 2: in the same place. They have two different backgrounds, two

685
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: different experiences. Harper's come in and she's driven to excel.

686
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: She's motivated from getting away from her past and being independent.

687
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: Yasmin is motivated to prove herself as an independent person.

688
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 2: You have Yasmin whose dad is for all intents and purposes,

689
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: bankrolling her lifestyle or supporting her with connections. You have

690
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: Harper who's trying to create that that relationship shows us

691
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 2: the multitude of experiences women in the workplace have. If

692
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: you even think about the season finale, we see Yasmin

693
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: making the decision to marry for a lifestyle and comparison

694
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: to Harper making the decision to build probably will amount

695
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 2: to an empire, which again shows or reflects the decisions

696
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: women in the workplace often have to make when it

697
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: comes to their future or what they're trying to accomplish

698
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: in both their personal and professional wives. Yasmin, she lost

699
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: her job, she leaned into love, she leaned into romance.

700
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: She said, I deserve it all, and she's going to

701
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: get her all through a different mechanism than Harper. Harper

702
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: too silently, you know, you can see in her actions

703
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: has decided that she deserves it all, but she's going

704
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: to go out and create it.

705
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: You know, that's interesting because I wonder what all is

706
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: actually for Harper, because I think in that season, Fanante,

707
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: we also see what looks like the development of a

708
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: relatively healthy workspace and then she's like, you know what,

709
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: I actually don't want this. And now it'll be interesting

710
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: to see what we see in season four. So, speaking

711
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: of what do you think we might see As Harper's

712
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: character continues to develop in her journey continues, what do

713
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 1: you think we might see in season four?

714
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see more of Harper becoming

715
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 2: who she is. So the whole thing with Harper in

716
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: that workplace, we see her working in a place that

717
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: might be singingly healthy, and it's also called Leviathan Alpha.

718
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: So the whole thing that we hear about Harper is

719
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, there's the subtle undertones of Harper might

720
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: be evil. She toes the line she gets pleasure in

721
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 2: just doing the absolute wrong thing. The company that they

722
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: found in Leviathan Alpha. The term Leviathan comes from demonology

723
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 2: and it's the demon of all demons, and then it's

724
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: called Alpha, so it's like the demon of all demons

725
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 2: is the name of their organization. In terms of traditionally

726
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: how we might look at sin or things that are

727
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: good or bad. Harper is playing into her strengths with

728
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: what she proposes to do with Auto, where they're going

729
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: to go out and work with these organizations who may

730
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: be unethical, but that might be flying too close to

731
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: the sun for Harper in terms of how she gets

732
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: things done. So it will be interesting to see what

733
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: she decides to do if that will feed her need

734
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: for operating in the gray space, or she'll go in

735
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 2: a different direction. I think Harper will excel in any

736
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: environment where there's not too many constraints and she's able

737
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 2: to run things well.

738
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: Either way, we will be tuned in for sure to

739
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: see what continues to happen with Harper. So Choby and

740
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: tell us where we can stay connected with you. What

741
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: is your website as well as any social media handles

742
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: you'd like to share.

743
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: Yes, you can stay connected with me on LinkedIn. You

744
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: can find me by my name. You can also stay

745
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: connected with me on Instagram at Eureka Underscore Aha Underscore Moments.

746
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: The name of my organization is called Eureka Coaching and Assessments.

747
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: I am happy to continue the conversation online, offline or

748
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 2: however others may see fit, but enjoyed my time talking

749
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,479
Speaker 2: with you here today, doctor Joy.

750
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we will be sure to include all of that

751
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: in our show notes so that people can find you.

752
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today.

753
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: Thank you.

754
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Chope was able to join me for

755
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: this conversation to learn more about her and her work.

756
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: We should have visited the show at Therapy for Blackgirls

757
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: dot com slash industry, and don't forget to text us

758
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: episodes to two of your girls right now and tell

759
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: them to check it out. If you're looking for a

760
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy

761
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want

762
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in

763
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us

764
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the

765
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: Internet designed just for black women. You can join us

766
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode

767
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: was produced by Elise Ellis, Zaria Taylor and Tyree Rush.

768
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much

769
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: for joining me for this conversation. We'll be back with

770
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: our regular episode next Wednesday. Until then, take good care.

771
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: What's