WEBVTT - Diane Fanning: Bitter Remains 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:05.039 This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.400 It is thought that he put the knife to her 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.000 throat and told her she had to sign that document. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.160 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.960 in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.839 podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.840 research for my many audio and book projects has taken 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.120 me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.920 with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.360 and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.120 crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.120 good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:07.520 unpublished details behind their stories. Author Diane Fanning is known 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.880 for covering high profile cases like Casey Anthony and John 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.720 Benet Ramsay, but not with this book. In the summer 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.039 of twenty eleven, Laura Jean Ackerson left to pick up 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.600 her two sons from her ex husband's home, and she 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.919 was never seen alive again. Diane digs into this case, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.120 which leads us from North Carolina down to Texas. Her 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.440 book is called bitter remains, a custody battle, a gruesome crime, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:36.160 and the mother who paid the ultimate price. How did 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:41.320 you run across Laura Jean Akerson's story because I'm used 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.759 to seeing, you know, Michael Peterson, those kind of really 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.680 bigger cases, Casey Anthony, and this is not a case 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.640 I got a ton of publicity. I hadn't heard of it. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.320 No, it hadn't gotten a lot of publicity. But I 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:57.360 think the fact that I was living in Virginia again 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.480 after being in Texas for so long, that I was 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.800 just north of the story. So it stumbled across me, 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:06.840 or I stumbled across it one of the two, and 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:11.800 I was intrigued in a way. It's a love triangle 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.320 and that's like an everyday thing, but this one involved 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:20.560 an actress an artist as a musician. What a creative combo, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:26.760 and you usually don't expect creative people to interact and 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:28.480 it ends up fatally. 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.639 You know, I think that there is a complicated story 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.760 in that everybody's backgrounds and how they're intertwined. And you know, 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.000 you also talked a little tunny bit before we get 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:44.079 started on the contrast between like a Michael Peterson story 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.320 and this story you know about the victim here and 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.919 the socioeconomic background and why this kind of thing does get, 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.320 you know, so much more attention if it's a Michael 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.040 Peterson than what happened with Aura. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.960 Well, when you have Michael Peterson, you had his wife 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.880 that he killed, who was a pillar of the community, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:12.000 supporter of the arts. She had a high paying, high 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:18.800 responsibility job. She was someone that garnered attention even before 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.720 she died. When you look at Laura Akerson, she comes 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:28.240 from much humbler beginnings. She was struggling to make it 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.640 on her own, to set up her own business with 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:38.000 design work and make a living to support herself and 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:43.960 her children. And that's a different stratosphere than what we 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:45.840 were talking about with Michael Peterson. 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.520 So let's start from the beginning. We always want to 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.560 start with the victim. Tell me about what you know 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.120 from Laura. Where she grew up, What was she like. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.120 Laura grew up in the Upper Midwest, and she was 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:03.080 a very simple girl as far as her upbringing was concerned. 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.320 There wasn't much complication. There wasn't a force, and that 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.600 is what seemed to have set her loose, and she 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.480 started experimenting with some bad behaviors, but she really wanted 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.040 to get her act back together, so she moved south 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.919 to live with her brother for a while, and she 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.560 was doing a whole lot better. And then one day 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.560 she went to a club and saw this musician and 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:35.400 his name was Grant Hayes, and she was just drawn 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.599 to him and went to talk to him when he 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.440 was done performing, and before you know it, they were dating. 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.400 And there were so many things the music brought them together, 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:47.560 but then the fact that they both had a birthday 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.719 on the same day made it all seem like fate, 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.599 and she just kind of fell for him real hard. 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:01.000 And he liked her in many ways because she looked 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:06.000 up to him and to his talent, and Grant Hayes 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.479 was someone who liked to be worshiped and she provided 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:11.159 that role. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.320 How old was she when she met Grants when he 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:15.240 was this musician. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.679 Laura was in her early twenties when she met Grant Hayes. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.080 What were the impressions of Grant that people had around her? Well, 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.679 she still in touch with her brother at that point. 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:28.960 Did anybody from her family meet him. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:34.040 Laura's brother did not like Grant. He just got a 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.400 weird vibe from him, and he didn't think his sister 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.560 should be seeing him. But what are you going to do? 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.160 I mean, you might be the older brother, but your 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.920 younger sister is not going to take love advice from you. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.960 And Grant apparently did not care for him at all. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.120 In fact, I don't really think that he wanted her 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.520 to have anything to do with her brother. He really 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.560 wanted to isolate her as much as he could so 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.640 that he could exert more control over her. She was 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:09.480 feeling badly about the relationship and was all ready to 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.520 leave and had made arrangements with a friend to leave him, 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:18.679 But then she found out she was pregnant, and she said, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.800 how could I leave him when I've got another child 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.880 on the way that's his. So she stuck with him, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.760 against her friend's better judgment, and then she had two 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:36.680 little boys, and suddenly she was more dependent on Grant 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:41.640 than she was before. And when he took off the 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.800 Virgin Island, she went with him. And that was just 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.840 a bad move because he was out all hours of 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.800 the night. He never helped with anything in the house. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:57.280 He brought very little money back to the family, and 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.720 he had his friends coming into the house too. Three 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.480 o'clock in the morning and playing music and shouting and 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.360 carrying on and doing drugs and drinking, and that's just 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:13.360 not a good environment for little children. And Laura was 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.760 getting really fed up with it, but she stayed stuck 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.200 it out until her little boy got really sick and 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.840 needed more expert medical care than she could get on 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:23.440 the island. 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.200 Were there any calls to the police or reports to 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.320 the police about yelling, screaming, domestic violence. Was there a 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.000 report from anybody that he had been physical with her 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.160 before this relationship ends. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.280 I don't think there were any physical reports, but there 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.920 were a lot of people that were aware of his 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.480 physical abuse, and Laura, in a lot of ways felt 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.680 trapped until she had the excuse of her son to 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.920 get her out of that situation. And she had suspicions 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.560 that he Grant was seeing Amanda, the actress who ran 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:09.960 an art supplies store, but she didn't know, and he 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.560 kept saying things like, listen, she's just got a lot 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.320 of money. She believes in my talent. She wants to 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:21.680 help me succeed. But although a lot of that was true, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.440 there was something else going on between the two of them, 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.760 and it was becoming rather serious. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.040 What did you know before we start talking about Amanda again? 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:34.440 What did you know about Grants before he ended up 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.520 meeting Laura. Do we know anything about his background at all? 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.680 He was raised in a very religious household. He had 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:48.240 been married once before to a ballerina and that didn't 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.679 work out. But he didn't have any children before. And 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:59.560 he also was seriously delusional. He had a philosophy that 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:05.640 he could have one hundred children or more with dozens 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:10.599 of women and be able to build an empire. It 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.720 would rule the world as he knew it. You know, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:17.520 it was like it was pretty crazy kind of belief system. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.440 And he didn't talk to a lot of people about it, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.760 but he did talk to some and he just he 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:28.480 wanted to set up his own harem and his family 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.280 of little kids and have them grow up, and as 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.640 they grew up, they would stand beside him and give 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.800 him power that he would go to another world and 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.840 rule there. It was very bizarre. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.240 Wow. And what was the closest you were able to 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.640 get to Grant as far as a source. Did you 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:50.880 end up talking to him? 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.840 I never talked to Grant. He was not interested in 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.760 talking to me. His lawyers were not interested in facilitating it, 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.320 and yeah, it was it's impossible to get there. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.360 Well, okay, so they're in the Virgin Islands. One of 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:09.280 her boys gets sick and she needs to return to 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:15.320 North Carolina. He stays there. Is she relieved because she thinks, okay, 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.440 well this is it. I mean, now I can kind 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.000 of just be done with this. And or was she 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.720 thinking this is going to have to keep going because 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.199 I've got the sick kid, and I need something to 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.160 sustain us. I need some kind of money. And she's 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:30.479 dependent on him still. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.840 She is still dependent on him, and there's probably nobody 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.800 less suited to provide a structure to uphold the family 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.920 than Grant Hayes. But his parents were there in North 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.760 Carolina too, and they gave her a place to stay, 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:53.839 and she cleaned their daycare center for them as part 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:57.960 of her way to pay back the rent and board 0:10:58.280 --> 0:10:59.360 for her and the boys. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.439 She still looped in with him then, I mean, obviously 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.080 she's with her family, so there's not getting away from 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.319 him even if they are separated, because she doesn't seem 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.120 to have any options in North Carolina. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.560 No, she doesn't. I mean, her brother was there, but 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.240 you know what single mail wants to take in his 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.360 sister and two little boys. Yeah, you know, it's a 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.079 kind of an awkward thing. But his parents were there 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.320 with open arms. I mean, she was the mother of 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.640 their two grandchildren. They felt obligated to help her, and 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.240 they also seemed to really like her. And then things 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:43.200 just spiraled out of control when Grant came back to 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:48.800 the United States, but instead of coming back to North Carolina, 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.880 he went to New York, where Amanda had moved back to, 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:58.760 and he moved into her apartment. She said that she 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.320 did not know if he was coming to her when 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:06.000 he came back to the States, and by now Laura 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.840 knew that they were having a relationship, but she knew 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:14.000 that it was serious, and he wanted to bring their 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.880 oldest boy, who was about four, up to New York 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:22.480 for a commercial opportunity. Laura was hesitant, but she let 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:27.079 him take the boy up there, and he was only 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.400 supposed to be for ten days, but then he didn't 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.200 bring him back and she kept asking for him to 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.440 come back, and then the next thing she knows, she's 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:43.880 getting photos online from Las Vegas, and its pictures of 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:49.079 his wedding with Amanda, and she was in shock because 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.559 she thought she was married until that moment. He told 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.720 her to look at the document and she'd see it 0:12:54.800 --> 0:13:00.880 never had been notarized. It wasn't official, and Laura was devastated. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.840 So I want to make sure I get the timeline straight. 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.360 When he meets Amanda, he meets her in the Virgin Islands. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:07.880 Is that right? 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.200 That is correct? Grant Meta Amanda in the Virgin Islands. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.880 But Amanda was from where was she from? New York State? 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.960 Amanda had been around a lot. She had been most 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.240 recently in New York State, but she'd also been out 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.520 in California, where she had a part in the remake 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.720 of The Stepford Wives. But acting wasn't working well for her, 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.920 so she moved back to Texas. She met someone there 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:39.200 she got married. He had a horrible accident. He jumped 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.920 into a lake that was not as deep as he 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:48.400 thought and was severely injured. He was completely paralyzed from 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:53.160 the neck down, and she was nursing him for a while, 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.720 and when he died, then she decided that, you know, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:59.880 she wanted to go to New York. She had some 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.400 money that she inherited from him, and she went to 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:08.079 New York and ended up going to beauty school, and 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.200 that's what she was doing until she took a vacation 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.440 down to the Virgin Islands and absolutely fell in love 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.600 with the place and moved down to Saint John. 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.080 Now I'm curious, what are the age differences between these 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.440 three people. Is there a big age difference between the 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.760 women and Grant or is everybody basically the same. 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.720 Laura is the youngest of the bunch, and then comes Grant, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:38.240 and then is Amanda. The age bread isn't that much, 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.960 but Amanda was definitely an older woman to Grant. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.600 Tell me about Amanda's personality based on what you know? 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.240 You know? Is she gregarius? Is she outgoing? Or I'm 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.080 wondering how he kind of gets to her too. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.160 A Banda did not seem to have a whole lot 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.000 of self confidence, but she put up a good shell, 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:06.960 and she was one of those women that when things 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.840 got tough, she falled and fell back on the oh 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:16.680 poor helpless me act. She really got with Grant thinking 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.480 she'd have somebody to take care of her, but it 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.360 ended up she was taking care of Grant. 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.080 So Grant is not living with Laura at this time. 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:30.800 Laura's in North Carolina, and Grant says that he wants 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.480 the oldest son to come up to New York because 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.040 he has a commercial opportunity. Is that modeling? What kind 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.160 of commercial opportunity does a kid four or have? 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.120 You take a cute kid and you pop them in 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.240 a commercial and people want your product. And that's what 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.680 he wanted for his son, just to be a cute 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.960 little face and get started on a career. That's what 0:15:56.000 --> 0:16:00.280 he envisioned for him. I probably thought even for through 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.000 that one day little Grant might be able to support him. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.680 He was always looking for people to take care of 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.240 him and to avoid work so he could do drugs 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:13.120 and drink. 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.360 So he tells Laura, I'm gonna get our kid modeling 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.360 gigs and bring them up to New York and it 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.400 will be just for a little bit, and I'll send 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.320 them back down. Did they have any kind of a 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.000 custody agreement at this point or was it just between 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:28.080 the two of them. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.240 No, there was no custody agreement, but that once he 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:41.160 married Amanda, that all started to change because now Amanda 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.240 wanted her and Grant to be able to go where 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.800 they wanted, but Grant didn't want to go anywhere. Without 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:54.440 his boys. He wanted his boys with him, and all 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.520 things got very ugly, and he ended up going to 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:04.399 them and getting one of those judgments you can get 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.840 when someone's life is in danger, so that he could 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.520 get immediate custody of this little boy too. So the 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.040 share of stopped Laura when she's driving down the road 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:21.200 with the little one and took him from her, screaming 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:26.480 and crying. He was very traumatic for the child, and 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.359 he was turned over to his biological father. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:35.600 What is the reaction of his parents, who she's living 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.600 with and working with, to all of this. She must 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.880 be saying, I don't know what's happening with your son. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.919 I thought we were legally married. Now he's married to 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.639 this other woman named Amanda, and he's taken off. Do 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:46.800 you guys know what's going on? 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.840 And they didn't know very much either. Grant wasn't the 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.320 best dis communicating, and when he communicated, he usually lied. 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.080 They were pretty much in the dark too. They didn't 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.679 know what was going on. But by this time Laura 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.960 had gotten her own apartment, she had found someone to 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.120 work with her, She was starting her own business. She 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.760 was doing a business where she sold advertising on those 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.680 place mats you get in small diners in little towns, 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.879 and so she was selling ads on that she was 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:24.720 doing the designs herself, and things were starting to come together. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:30.959 And she also realized that she had not really in 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.040 a way grown up as she should have, and so 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:38.439 she started She got with someone at church who was 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:44.960 counseling her and helping her to realize what areas she 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.000 needed to work on, and she was doing everything she 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.520 could to be a better person. But in the meantime, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:59.800 now Grant had moved back to Raleigh, was living with Amanda, 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:06.040 who was now pregnant with their child, and sharing custody 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:11.959 with Laura, and he had primary custody and she was 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.199 just getting basically visitation rights. And she finally decided that 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.240 she just had to do something. She had to take action. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.160 She had to take him to court and get this 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:27.200 all looked at again, because she was not somebody who 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.640 could not be trusted with her children, but she strongly 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:35.040 believed that Grant could not be trusted with the children, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.000 and she was gathering evidence. I mean, he would send 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:44.119 her very hateful emails, he would make hateful comments on 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.800 the phone, and she was recording it all and saving 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.480 she took the emails and a friend of hers stored 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.919 them on her computer so that there would always be 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.960 a record of them, and she took her little record 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.240 device anywhere when she was meeting up for the exchange 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.120 of children. She was doing all the work she needed 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:12.440 to do to regain custody of her boys. Meanwhile, Amanda 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.399 was thought that Laura was the worst person in the 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:20.639 world and horrible mother and all of that only because 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.160 that's what Grant told her, and she believed Grant. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:29.320 What was his reason and why was the sheriff so 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:33.320 convinced that the boys' lives were in danger? I mean, 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.359 what could he have possibly say? What evidence was there? 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.280 It seems like there was no evidence. And it also 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.359 seems like in even you know, anywhere in the country, 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.399 that it would be a lot to take away some 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.880 kids from their mother, especially well. 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.359 He claimed that she did drugs and she was a 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:50.080 sex worker. 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.400 But there's no proof of that, is there no? 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:56.600 But this was an emergency custody thing, and emergency is 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.080 they will act fast and look for the proof later 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.080 if they think a child's life is endangered. And he 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:06.480 presented a good argument that the child children were not safe. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.320 Okay, So how long did he have the oldest boy 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:14.640 initially before he came back to North Carolina with Amanda, It. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.600 Was about six months. And for a little boy, that 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.440 is a long long time to be separated from mom. 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:26.399 That's just horrible long time, and you know, you don't 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:31.560 understand what's going on. And so the parent that's not 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:36.040 responsible for the separation, it ends up shouldering some of 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:41.400 the blame for abandonment when that's not what really happened. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:46.040 So it was very traumatic for little Grant, very traumatic. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.639 Now, why did he and Amanda come back down to 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:51.920 North Carolina? Why didn't they stay in New York? Was 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:53.280 it to be closer to his parents? 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.879 They came down to North Carolina because they had to 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.919 settle this custody thing. That's right, Laura was taking them 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.880 to court. They absolutely did not want her to have 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.399 any kind of custody. They wanted to be able to 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:11.240 roll around the country with him doing music gigs wherever 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:17.080 and whenever, and the children were essentially in the way. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:22.639 So he and Amanda came down, and there was also 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:32.000 Shay who was Amanda's early twenties daughter, so she was there. 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:37.920 She came down to try to help her with the children, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:42.000 and that didn't work out too well. Grant just didn't 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.000 want her in their apartment, even though there was room 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.840 for her, But so she got an apartment down the 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.960 hall so that she could be there for her mom. 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.280 But I think, as we're starting to fall apart between 0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.960 the two of them, but she was also having a baby. 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:03.119 So Laura, being the kind of person she was, readily 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:08.200 agreed to take the boys and keep them full time 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:13.520 while Amanda was approaching delivery time. And she did that, 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.720 but then the boys went back when that was over, 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.960 and now there are three children in the house, two 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:29.239 preschool boys and one infant girl, and the situation was 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:35.920 getting more inflamed. Without Laura really realizing it, she thought 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:38.720 they were on the way to a solution because the 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:45.399 court ordered a psychological survey of both of their homes 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.440 and all of the people involved. They did special things 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:54.000 with testing with the children, like they will put one 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:56.639 of the children into a room with a bunch of 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:00.639 toys and see how they acted alone, and then they 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:04.440 would send in the mother and see how they interacted. 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:08.359 And both of them they just ran to their mother 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.080 and were so happy to see her. But then when 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:13.320 the father came in, they might have said hi, but 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:15.200 then they just went back to what they were doing, 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:18.440 and that told you a lot about the connection the 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.880 children had. And there were also things that they went 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:27.040 and saw their houses and the living conditions in them. 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.520 Then they sat down one on one, we'd got an 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:37.760 in depth interview with Grant and also with Amanda and 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:43.080 with Laura, and so the psychologists basically came to the 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:46.240 conclusion that Laura still had a little growing up to do, 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.520 which Laura knew and was working on, but thought that 0:24:51.240 --> 0:24:56.280 she was a good, loving mother, but that Amanda and 0:24:56.800 --> 0:25:01.240 Grant were showing all signs of wanting to wipe her 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:05.679 out from those boys' lives completely, didn't want her to 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:10.320 be around them ever at all, wanted them to forget 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:18.040 she existed. And on top of that, Grant was really 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:22.080 very demeaning when he talked about her. They found out 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:24.600 that all those things he was saying about her to 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:28.600 get custody were lies. And the one that had the 0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:32.120 drug problems they did drug testing, he was the one 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.120 with the problems, the psychological problems, the drug problems, everything, 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:40.440 And a report came out and this was the explosive 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.639 moment that led to Laura's death. The report came out 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:50.240 and it laid out the inadequacies of Grant as a 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:56.560 father and his need to see to get psychiatric help, 0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:01.520 and his need to be monitored for drugs. And they 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:05.320 knew Grant and Amanda that once they went back into 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:09.960 the court, that report is what was going to put 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.920 them out of the picture with the children. They would 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.320 only get occasional visits. They would be tied to the 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:22.040 area where Laura lived. Laura was real upbeat about it 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:25.399 because she saw it too. Yeah, And one of the 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:29.919 things that were found in Grant's car was a copy 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.879