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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who

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Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff. You're a weekly reminder that I have

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Speaker 1: a podcast that comes out twice a week, and I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Margaret Kiljoy. And this week my guest. You

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Speaker 1: might have heard them before. You might have heard them

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Speaker 1: feeding soup to people or killing random things, like in

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Speaker 1: a murder hobo way. If you don't know what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, that makes no sense. My guest is Hazel Akasha,

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Speaker 1: better known, of course to people who listen to Coolzone

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Speaker 1: Media Book Club as Murder Grana Murder Go. How do

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Speaker 1: you pronounce your character's name?

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Speaker 2: Hi, Margaret, Hi, my name is Hazel, and I the Pathfinder.

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Speaker 2: Let's play that we're doing. I play Sister murdra Ghana Mr.

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Speaker 1: Dragana, which is Murdy for short. Yeah, well, welcome Murdy

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Speaker 1: Hazel Murdy to cool people who Did cool Stuff. So

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Speaker 1: it's just the two of us. Sophie isn't here, but

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Speaker 1: Sophie is still our producer Hi Sophie. And our audio

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Speaker 1: engineer is still Eva Hi Eva hi Eva. And our

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Speaker 1: theme music was written for us by un woman. And

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Speaker 1: this week I am going to tell a story that

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Speaker 1: I am nervous to tell Okay, there's this thing that

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Speaker 1: happens a lot on the show where I'll get into

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Speaker 1: a topic and I'll get really excited, I'll get really

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Speaker 1: far along, and then I'll be like, wait a second,

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Speaker 1: this guy is kind of a terrible person. But that's

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Speaker 1: not what happened this time. Instead, the people who are

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Speaker 1: into this person are terrible people. No, this week, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to tell you a story with all of the

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Speaker 1: usual cool people trappings. It's about a group of people

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Speaker 1: coming together despite their differences, to resist settler colonialism. Hell yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's high on the list of my favorite things.

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Speaker 2: Mind too.

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Speaker 1: It's also set in the Late Iron Age, or if

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Speaker 1: you're being pedantic, past the Late Iron Age, but I

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Speaker 1: don't really care. I'm going to go Iron until. I

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Speaker 1: don't actually know when the Iron Age stops. I looked

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Speaker 1: it up before I started recording, and then I forgot Margaret.

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Speaker 2: I think it's okay if I don't know when the

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Speaker 2: irony advents, but you should know.

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Speaker 1: In the Iron Agents, a lot of people say that

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Speaker 1: it ends at like, you know, one ce, because Jesus, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like they've just sort of decided. I

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Speaker 1: think that Jesus is the biggest part of it. And

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Speaker 1: someone's going to know way more than me about this.

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Speaker 1: But it's basically, you have like the ages. You have

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Speaker 1: the like Bronze Age and the Iron Age, and then

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Speaker 1: whichever one comes before that's probably the Copper Age. And

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Speaker 1: now everyone knows them opposer about this stuff. I usually

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Speaker 1: record about the nineteenth century, but that's like prehistory because

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Speaker 1: it's not as written down, and then you get into

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Speaker 1: the like right, right, you know, classical era or whatever.

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Speaker 1: The fuck. I don't know what I'm talking about about

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Speaker 1: this particular thing. Please, no one take my word for it.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's funny I say that. But I have

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Speaker 1: also read this a bunch of times in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of places. But then I've just been really confused because

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Speaker 1: people describe things differently. But what people don't describe. Nope,

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Speaker 1: people describe the character we're going to talk about today

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Speaker 1: actually very differently from each other. This is a story

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Speaker 1: I'm nervous to tell because it's about a historical figure

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Speaker 1: that the right wing fucking loves to me, I think

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Speaker 1: they take the wrong lesson from this story classic and yes,

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Speaker 1: I will specifically tie that into Tolkien at the end,

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Speaker 1: because I think that that explains it all. This week,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the Battle of Teuteburg Forest,

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Speaker 1: in which a bunch of warring tribes of barbarians in

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Speaker 1: Germania teamed up to just absolutely slaughter three legions of

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Speaker 1: the Roman Army. I'm just describing a massacre, but it's

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Speaker 1: going to be good. Have you ever heard of the

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Speaker 1: Battle of Teuteburg Forest? I'm Margaret, I have no idea

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Speaker 1: what this is, Okay, this is the battle that more

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Speaker 1: or less ended. I have my entire life avoided becoming

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Speaker 1: one of those people who knows a bunch about Rome,

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Speaker 1: to the point where I was avoiding learning cool things

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Speaker 1: about things that happened while Rome was around, because I've

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Speaker 1: always hated the like, you know that thing where like

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Speaker 1: white cys men think about the Roman Empire once a

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Speaker 1: week or whatever. Mm hmm, because I already had one

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Speaker 1: of those. It's called the Spanish Civil War.

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Speaker 2: But everyone needs something, and mine is the live performance

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Speaker 2: that Fleetwood Mac did of a Silver Spring. I think

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Speaker 2: about that once a day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know how to tie that into them

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Speaker 1: killing fascists, but I actually wouldn't put it past any

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Speaker 1: of them. I think anyone in Fleetwood Mac they would

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Speaker 1: have gotten over their personal difficulties to run people through

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Speaker 1: his swords.

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Speaker 2: I think probably. I think that's what the chain is about, right.

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Speaker 1: I think so it's about how we're still stuck in

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Speaker 1: the same band, and by band we mean a group

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Speaker 1: of people who kill fascists together.

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Speaker 2: The chain keeps us together, something like that.

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Speaker 1: The Battle of two to Burg Forest was the thing

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Speaker 1: that broke the chain. Eh that Rome was attempting to

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Speaker 1: put upon the people of Germany. And it's more or

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Speaker 1: less what ended Roman attempts at conquest in Germany, which

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Speaker 1: is part of why Germany never became a province of

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Speaker 1: the Roman Empire. Historians like to argue, I could end

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Speaker 1: the sentence there. Historians like to argue about how exactly

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Speaker 1: influential this battle was, because for the most part, you

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Speaker 1: can actually pretty honestly present this as one of the

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Speaker 1: single most influential, like most consequential battles in human history.

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Speaker 1: Because if Germany had gone Roman, German would be a

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Speaker 1: Romance language, which means English would be a Romance language

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Speaker 1: instead of being a half Romance language. There's a joke

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Speaker 1: there somewhere about being like half Romantic we're a demi

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Speaker 1: romantic language. Ah, that's what I'm going with. That's my

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Speaker 1: final answer. Germany would have far more likely stayed Roman Catholic,

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Speaker 1: and like we kind of might not have had the

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Speaker 1: Protestant Reformation if twenty thousand Romans hadn't been slaughtered in

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Speaker 1: the woods in the year nine.

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Speaker 2: Oh shit, like damn.

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Speaker 1: It's also really easier to be influential on human society

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Speaker 1: when there's a total of three hundred million people in

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can't argue with that.

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Speaker 1: This battle was literally and directly influential on Martin Luther

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Speaker 1: and the Reformation, and you would have this very different

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Speaker 1: cultural situation between France and Germany because France was conquered

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Speaker 1: by Rome, and you have like this whole idea of

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Speaker 1: like the Rhine, which is this river that separates the two.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was this very very important border for

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Speaker 1: so long, which is very influential on basically all of

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Speaker 1: the wars in Europe that then sprawl out into the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world that you have starting in the

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Speaker 1: late nineteenth century and into the twentieth century. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of those wars. I've heard of some of them.

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Speaker 1: So you get this like this is the single most

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Speaker 1: important battle ever argument, and this is kind of the

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Speaker 1: most common argument most historians are on this page. More

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Speaker 1: modern historians tend to downplay the importance of this battle,

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Speaker 1: and I think I think mostly they're doing that to

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Speaker 1: sort of avoid the like big man theory of history,

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Speaker 1: where people like, this is the one thing that everything

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Speaker 1: changed because of this one thing, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, reasonable take. Do we want to avoid that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The other reason though, that I think people downplay

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Speaker 1: the importance of this battle because the fucking Nazis are

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Speaker 1: really into this battle, right, and specifically the leader of

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Speaker 1: this fucking Armenius, he is going to be the main

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Speaker 1: person we talk about today. They're super fucking into this,

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Speaker 1: and everyone, especially Germans really for some weird reason when

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Speaker 1: I put as much distance as possible between themselves and

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Speaker 1: anything that Nazis like.

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Speaker 2: Again just another reasonable take.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, but here we are talking about a thing

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Speaker 1: done by a guy that Nazis like, and once again

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Speaker 1: they got it all wrong. That's gonna be my argument.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we can't let the Nazis have everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're really good at ruin and stuff, airship travel.

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Speaker 1: Have I ever given you my rant about airship travel

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Speaker 1: and Nazis.

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Speaker 2: I have not heard this.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's see if I can do this off

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Speaker 1: the top of my head. So, airship travel is a

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Speaker 1: really big thing. Germany was like one of the more

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Speaker 1: important airship places in the world. Airship's much greener way

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Speaker 1: to travel by air. Not as fast, it's not as efficient,

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Speaker 1: it's not as good for war as fixed wing aircraft,

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Speaker 1: but a reasonable way to get from point A to

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Speaker 1: point B in style.

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Speaker 2: And when you say airship, you mean like blimp.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, blimp zeppelins, Yeah, like rigid. Oh I used

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Speaker 1: to know all this shit inside and out, okay. And

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Speaker 1: so the Nazis were like the guy in charge of

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Speaker 1: Nazi airship travel sorry pre Nazi airship travel was just

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Speaker 1: not a Nazi. It wasn't even an anti fascist. He

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Speaker 1: was just not a Nazi. And he really believed in safety.

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Speaker 2: We can't have people out here believing in safety.

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Speaker 1: That's actually also a position that Hitler agreed with. Oh fuck, yeah, no, I.

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Speaker 2: Kind of say, came out that too close to the sun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you absolutely did. You like Icarus. So Hitler fires

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Speaker 1: the guy who is in charge of airship safety, and

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Speaker 1: they put in a yes man, because on some level

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Speaker 1: every now and then, like the modern fascist problem, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: they're not Nazis. They're just like thieves stripping the copper

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Speaker 1: out of the wires of the US government. But then

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, kind of, so is Hitler like hmm,

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Speaker 1: or at least like he didn't care. He cared about

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Speaker 1: people being loyal more than he cared about safety, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the Hindenburg goes down and everyone's like, airship travel

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Speaker 1: isn't safe and no one ever touches it again Nazis

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Speaker 1: ruin everything, That's my theory.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, fucking Nazi for many reasons. Yeah, not limited

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Speaker 2: to this, but add another better to the pat on

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Speaker 2: good reasons to hate Nazis.

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Speaker 1: It's true. I think that if you are someone who's

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Speaker 1: specifically concerned with airship travel, you too should be out

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Speaker 1: in the streets confronting fascism. But honestly, you should be

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Speaker 1: doing that for other reasons more importantly, And to be honest,

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Speaker 1: my current guess about the Battle Toutenberg Forest.

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Speaker 2: Which you still need to tell me about. You're still

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Speaker 2: on the hook for a whole podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, The Battle of tutebook first is

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Speaker 1: the entire episodes today and Wednesday. So my guess is

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Speaker 1: that it's actually exactly as influential as people say. And

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Speaker 1: I say this because of a couple archaeological findings that

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Speaker 1: have come up in the past couple decades, evidence that

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Speaker 1: show that Germany was well on its way to Romanizing

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Speaker 1: before they were driven out. I do think that the

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Speaker 1: specific battle is slightly overrated, and I think this one

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Speaker 1: guy's influence. I think that is overstated a bit. But honestly,

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Speaker 1: like I think they're onto something about this kind of

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you ambush a bunch of people and it changes

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Speaker 1: the face of history.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes guys with guns in the woods is just gonna win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Last week we did an uprising in Britain led

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Speaker 1: by this woman and it started off gorilla and then

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Speaker 1: it moved into this open conflict and then they all died.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, And this one is another resistance to Rome

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Speaker 1: and it starts off and stays gorilla and succeeds. Don't

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Speaker 1: fight the Roman army head.

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Speaker 2: On, Yeah, a lesson that should stay in history.

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Speaker 1: Mounted archers and or gorillas with spears in the woods,

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Speaker 1: that's how you take on the Roman army. But before

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Speaker 1: I can tell you about the Battle of Tutenberg Forest.

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Speaker 1: I must provide to you context. There wasn't really a

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Speaker 1: Germany in the ancient world, or honestly most of the

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Speaker 1: world until what like eighteen seventy five or something like that.

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Speaker 1: But you've got a bunch of related ethnic groups and

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Speaker 1: tribes and nations, depending on how you want to call it,

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Speaker 1: living in the region that we now more or less

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Speaker 1: called Germany. The Romans called the place Germania, which was

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Speaker 1: just a clever name. It was actually the name of

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Speaker 1: one of the tribes in the area. But then they're like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of.

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Speaker 2: Everybody, also a classic Roman thing.

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Speaker 1: I know, and they're about to do it with a

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Speaker 1: second tribe from the area, the Tutans. One of the

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Speaker 1: main sources about this battle, just like last week's episodes

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Speaker 1: about revolts against Roman Britain, is this guy Tacitus, who

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Speaker 1: wrote about eighty years after this battle, and also Cassius Dio,

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Speaker 1: who wrote a couple hundred years later. These are the

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Speaker 1: two big Roman historians that kind of once you learn

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Speaker 1: that like basically all we have for Roman history is

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Speaker 1: like two guys who had fucking access to grind.

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Speaker 2: Everything kind of gets cast in a New Light.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which just I get so overwhelmed by how much

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Speaker 1: I want to know the truth to where I have

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Speaker 1: been working a billion of time machine.

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Speaker 2: But well, when you finish that time machine, let me

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Speaker 2: know so that I can go back to the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty six performance at the Warner Brothers Theeter by Fleetwood

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Speaker 2: Mac of the only time that they have performed Silver

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Speaker 2: Spring live.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the only time they played that song.

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Speaker 2: It's the only time they played that song live.

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Speaker 1: Oh my God. And there's a recording of it.

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Speaker 2: There's a recording of it.

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Speaker 1: WHOA, Okay, So we'll do a bill and Ted, we'll

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Speaker 1: go and we'll get the whole band of Fleetwood Mac. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then take them back to ancient Gaul and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other places.

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Speaker 2: They would love Stevie Nicks.

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Speaker 1: I think, so, who doesn't love Stevie Nicks. That's how

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Speaker 1: you could find out who's like worth trusting. You just

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Speaker 1: bring around Stevie Nicks. And if someone doesn't trust Stevie Nicks,

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Speaker 1: you're like good thing. I brought an Air fifteen with

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Speaker 1: me and then.

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Speaker 2: Well, the issues that Lindsay Buckingham trusted Stevie Nicks for

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Speaker 2: at least an amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know who that is by name. I

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Speaker 1: only know Stevie Nicks by name from Clayton mack.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Lindsay Buckingham is her shitty X also in the

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Speaker 2: band how she sings all of her songs about.

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Speaker 1: Lindsay is a boy's name, got it?

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Speaker 2: Lindsay is a boy's name. Lindsay is a boy's name. Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I suppose I will forgive him for trying

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Speaker 1: to steal women's names. That's not problematica for me to anyway.

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Speaker 1: So Tacitus wrote a whole ass book called Germania and

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Speaker 1: is one of the main sources we have about what

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Speaker 1: Germany looked like at the time. And this is a

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Speaker 1: problem because, as we've talked about a little bit before,

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Speaker 1: Tacitus is really into this trope that you can call

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Speaker 1: the the hard Primitive in order to show how weak

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Speaker 1: and decadent and homosexual Rome has become. No, not homosexual, Oh,

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Speaker 1: they've gotten so homosexual over there, and it's a problem

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Speaker 1: according to Tacitus.

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Speaker 2: Clutching by pearls and fainting on my couch.

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Speaker 1: He absolutely in the last week's episodes, he absolutely put

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Speaker 1: a bunch of homophobic stuff and like even like these

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Speaker 1: people are weak like women into the mouths of an

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Speaker 1: actual historical woman who led like a massive army.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Brosbie bros Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Tacitus bro man. The hard primitive is a sort of

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Speaker 1: it's a version of the noble savage trope. But instead

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Speaker 1: of saying like, the primitive people are perfect and peaceful

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Speaker 1: and utopian and unbothered, you say the primitive people are

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Speaker 1: hard as fucking nails, unlike the soft girly boys of Rome.

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Speaker 1: And Ttacitus actually, in his homophobia, he's like, and the

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Speaker 1: Roman leaders they sleep with men, not even something normal

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Speaker 1: like boys, adult men. I don't like this man.

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Speaker 2: Nasty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not going to comment on that.

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Speaker 2: That's terrible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I am skeptical of what he had to

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Speaker 1: say about German culture and the late BCE and early CE.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine why.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, no, But you know what I'm not skeptical of,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone else should be skeptical of.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what is it the ads that support

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Speaker 1: this show. I think we can assume best intentions. I

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Speaker 1: think that what we need to learn to offer each

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Speaker 1: other grace in these trying times I think we need

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Speaker 1: to start with corporations and politicians.

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Speaker 2: I think so. I think, you know, really, the exchange

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Speaker 2: of money for services is like the purest form of

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Speaker 2: interaction because it's so equal and even and justin pure

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Speaker 2: and good. And I assume that that's what the products

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Speaker 2: and services that support the show are offering to you.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: And do you ever worry that the fact that both

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Speaker 1: you and I have like a really strong, straight faced sarcasm.

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Speaker 1: I never worry about that.

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Speaker 2: I've never thought about this.

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Speaker 1: Here's ads enter Beck. So Germania was a collection of

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Speaker 1: what are called the Teutonic tribes, which is itself sort

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Speaker 1: of a misnumber. I have you ever heard of, like

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Speaker 1: the Teutonic Knights. I had no idea what they were,

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Speaker 1: but I had heard that name before.

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Speaker 2: No, Teutonic sounds like a word similar to phrenology in

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Speaker 2: my mind, where it's like old timy and vaguely racist.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what's happening, only is about Germans.

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Speaker 2: So chronology actually racist. But yeah, yeah, this category of

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Speaker 2: word teutonic.

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Speaker 1: Is a word that went out of fashion around the

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Speaker 1: same time that phrenology went out of fashion, and in

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Speaker 1: a similar thing where if you meet someone who starts

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Speaker 1: talking about Teutonic bloodlines or something, you could no, wait,

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Speaker 1: you could, you could disagree with them in a vehement fashion.

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Speaker 1: So the Teutons. So actually it's still a misnomer in

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Speaker 1: the same way they calling them Germans is misnomer because

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Speaker 1: there was a tribe called the Germans. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: a tribe called the Teutons, and they're not actually from Germany.

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Speaker 1: They're from the Jutland peninsula modern Denmark.

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Speaker 2: Oh uh huh.

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Speaker 1: But then around the second century BCE they moved southeast

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Speaker 1: and along the way they displaced Celtic tribes, including one Tariski,

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Speaker 1: who were allied with Rome. People like to argue, I

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Speaker 1: am not among the people who like to argue about

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Speaker 1: this whether or not the Teutons themselves were Germanic or Celtic,

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Speaker 1: and whether Germanic is actually a different thing than Celtic.

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Speaker 1: But in general let's go with yes. It's like culturally

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Speaker 1: has some unique things going on. Tacitus wrote about the

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Speaker 1: Germans and one of the main things he was really

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Speaker 1: impressed by. The Germans were monogamous.

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Speaker 2: Oh we got homophobia, we got monogamy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Germans women if their husbands die are

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Speaker 1: never allowed to get married again boo, and everyone marries

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Speaker 1: late in life and is chased until marriage. This is

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Speaker 1: why I don't believe Tacitus. I don't think that that

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Speaker 1: sounds real to me, but that sounds boring, honestly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Germans compared to the Gauls, who were like headhunters,

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Speaker 1: where their polycule is like all interwoven, you know. But

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Speaker 1: I also just like kind of don't believe this stuff.

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Speaker 1: But Tacitus also during all of this he wrote about

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Speaker 1: how somewhere near the Swedes was this other group that

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Speaker 1: were entirely like the Swedes, except they were run by women,

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Speaker 1: whoa and people have ever since, And I had it

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Speaker 1: in script and then I deleted it by accident. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know where to tie it in. But ever since

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Speaker 1: people have been like, what the fuck was he talking about?

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Speaker 1: And he either made it up, heard it from a guy,

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Speaker 1: or the Romans kept being like, these people were run

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Speaker 1: by women, isn't that weird? Whereas it was like very

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Speaker 1: very normal almost everywhere else. So if like one Swedish

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Speaker 1: clan happened to have a queen that year, he might

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Speaker 1: have been like, holy shit, you know.

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Speaker 2: I love this figure of like what if tweeth century

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Speaker 2: anthropologist but like Roman and more fucked up. I'm really

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Speaker 2: taken by this, right, he is like a kind of

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Speaker 2: guy that just seems to exist throughout history.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, And these people are still You

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Speaker 1: could watch them on YouTube. If you watch most of

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Speaker 1: the videos about the Tutenberg Forest, you're gonna find this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Caesar also wrote about the Germans, and he wrote quote

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Speaker 1: their diet, daily exercise, and the freedom from restraint that

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Speaker 1: they enjoy for from childhood. They do not know what

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Speaker 1: compulsion or discipline is, and do nothing against their inclinations

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Speaker 1: combine to make them strong and tall as giants. They

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Speaker 1: inner themselves in spite of very cold climates in which

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Speaker 1: they live, to wear no clothing but skins, and these

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Speaker 1: so scanty that a large part of the body is uncovered,

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Speaker 1: and to bathe in rivers not scanty, I know, not

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Speaker 1: scanty cl in the cold North. While I also love

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Speaker 1: that the way to become as strong and tall as

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Speaker 1: a giant is to be an anarchist, Like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's true. Do nothing against your inclinations and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna grow up big and strong. Sure, sure, guy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I might as well. So this is Germania and the

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Speaker 1: BCE and all these tribes in Germania, Celtic and Teutonic alike.

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Speaker 1: They start moving into Gaul, into France, and they start

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Speaker 1: fucking up. This is the preamble to the other stuff.

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Speaker 1: This stuff doesn't matter as much for the story, but

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Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out. They move into Gaul, which is France,

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Speaker 1: and they start fucking up the French, including again a

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Speaker 1: bunch of folks who are allied with Rome at this point.

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Speaker 1: So Rome marches an army in and drives them back,

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Speaker 1: and for a moment that's working, but then Romans betrayed

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Speaker 1: the German tribes. You've ever seen a movie where they

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Speaker 1: do the trope where like the imperial forces call everyone

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Speaker 1: to a like sit down meeting and they're like just

404
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Speaker 1: kidding and they like kill everyone.

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Speaker 2: Oh did they do that?

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Speaker 1: They do that all the time.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I actually don't know if they did it specifically here,

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Speaker 1: because I lost track of how many times in the

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Speaker 1: ancient world, everyone, especially the Romans, are just being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's like all meet up and talk, and then it's

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Speaker 1: not to talk.

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Speaker 2: The one honorless cowardice two at some point.

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Speaker 1: Like well, they don't have the Internet.

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Speaker 2: I guess you don't have the internet. But does word

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Speaker 2: not get around I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well, actually, I mean I guess by the time Arminius

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Speaker 1: is on the he's like, nah, I don't fucking trust

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Speaker 1: you all. And that's going to go really badly for

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Speaker 1: the Romans because yeah, they keep doing this shit. It's

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Speaker 1: like the whole like, it's the pirate code. If you

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Speaker 1: show up to rob someone in like ye oldie pirty times,

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Speaker 1: you have to say, like, look, if you surrender, you

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Speaker 1: don't die. Yeah, because if they surrender and they do die,

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Speaker 1: now no one has any reason to surrender, right, And

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Speaker 1: now being a pirate just got like ten times more dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Bluffing can actually be very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: In fact, yeah, totally. So Rome betrays the German tribes

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Speaker 1: in France and so they just like fuck Rome's troops up.

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Speaker 1: They're just like, nah, there's gonna be a bunch of

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Speaker 1: back and forth, a bunch of brutal battles. And it

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Speaker 1: led me down a rabbit hole to research the history

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Speaker 1: of the concept of surrender.

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Speaker 2: Whoa, I'm still ready for this rabbit hole.

435
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: Well, unfortunately, what I really want is this one hundred

436
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,479
Speaker 1: and ten dollars hardcover only history book that is about

437
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: the history of surrender, but I instead read a bunch

438
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: of reviews about it and a bunch of other shorter

439
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: essays that I could find in access Right. Surrender, as

440
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: we understand it is a reasonably modern concept. Like I

441
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: kept reading these reports of like ancient battles, and not

442
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 1: just in the sort of west or near East, but

443
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: like also like there's a battle in like ancient China

444
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: in the BCE where like literally two hundred thousand people

445
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: got buried alive after they surrendered.

446
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

447
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: And that's when there was one hundred and ninety million

448
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: people in the world total.

449
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: Holy shit.

450
00:22:53,800 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god. Yeah, and this happens so much. Yeah,

451
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: rome Ha said, multiple conflicts at this point where either

452
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: they're killing one hundred thousand guys or someone is killing

453
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand of their guys.

454
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: Wow. Where do all these guys come from?

455
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: I don't fucking no, certainly not Germany where they're monogamous

456
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: and only get married late. Now, this wasn't that every battle.

457
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: The majority of battles in the ancient world did not

458
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: end with massacres, but a lot of them did, and

459
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: more common was that you surrender and you end up enslaved.

460
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: This is like the sort of normal thing where you're like, well,

461
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: at least I'm alive and ancient yeoldie world slavery is

462
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 1: completely different than like American chattel slavery. It's still an evil,

463
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: but like whenever people defend American chattel slavery by being

464
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: like everyone did it, they're wrong because American chattle slavery

465
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: was a unique evil. Yeah, but yeah, so the idea

466
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 1: that like if you're in a battle and then you

467
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: surrender and now you're just a prisoner of war and

468
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: then you go home at the end of the war,

469
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: that's pretty new.

470
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, how new is new?

471
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to find out. I like, yeah,

472
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: I know that you start getting a lot more like

473
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: I know it exists by the Victorian era. I suspect

474
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: it exists well before then. Hostage taking was a big

475
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: part of medieval conflict, but that was only for rich people.

476
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: So it was like your kind of goal in order

477
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: to make back the money of like being in a

478
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: YILDI sortie times war, yeah, is to capture a bunch

479
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: of enemy nobility like the knights and shit and then

480
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: hold them hostage and ransom them back. But I think

481
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: that like the average peasant who's in the war, I

482
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: don't know yet, and I'm very curious about this stuff

483
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: because I have normal interests, like a normal person.

484
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why they pay you the big bucks.

485
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: That's right, that's why they pay me the medium bucks.

486
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: I mean big bucks. I love Okay. Anyway, So the

487
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: Germans and their allied galls are just fucking up Rome.

488
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: But then they split the party, which you should never do,

489
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: and Rome sends a big fuck off army and defeats

490
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: them like one at a time, and the two Tones

491
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: and the Allied Simbri are sort of wiped off the

492
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: map and their remnants are absorbed into other groups. All

493
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: this is BCE is important in this week's story because

494
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: this is what cements the Germani as like terrifying giants

495
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: of legend to the Romans ever since, in a similar

496
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: way as to how the step people became the Amazons

497
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: because there was like women among them, and it scared

498
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: the Romans so much that they invented a whole type

499
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: of guy, the Amazon. You never heard this, Wait, that's

500
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: where that comes from. That's like the most likely thing

501
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: most likely is that they were like uh huh okay,

502
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: Like the way to kick Rome's ass is to fight

503
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: them in a swamp with a spear, like bare chested

504
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: in the middle of the dirt, or to have force

505
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: archers and just be like.

506
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 2: Horse lords are that's God tear, You're not beaten that.

507
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so they kept getting their ass kicked by

508
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: like nomadic folks, and a lot of the step folks,

509
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: both the warriors and the leadership would be women, and

510
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: enough of them that basically in that same way that

511
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: tacticist tactic whatever, that fucking Assholese guy, he's like, Oh,

512
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: there's this entire realm where women run things, and it's

513
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: like probable that there was just actually even between men

514
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: and women and it happened to be a woman at

515
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: that time, and that was like so impossible for him

516
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: to imagine. So two tones in the Simbri are wiped

517
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: off the map, but they're like, now, this race of giants,

518
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: even though they're Jermani, they're also the two tony, the

519
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: two tones or the tutons, and tutan becomes the medieval

520
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: Latin word for the German languages, and that's how you

521
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: end up with the Teutonic Knights. We I don't really

522
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: know I or care all that much about they're involved

523
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: in the Crusades, and I haven't. I have all the

524
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: books about the Muslim side of the Crusades that I'm

525
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: excited to read and eventually talk about, but I haven't

526
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: gotten there. My one day, this podcast will cover all history, yes.

527
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: And it will be the only legal history podcast.

528
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: Left, I know, once we defeat all the other ones.

529
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: But fortunately we have horse archers and there are a

530
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: bunch of Romans, so it's true. It's not going to

531
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: go well for them. We're God here, yeah, yeah, they

532
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: thought they were rest here, but where God tyre? Rome

533
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: meanwhile gets more and more powerful the stuff that happens

534
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: in Gaul. But they're just like expanding more and more.

535
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: It's empire keeps expanding. Sometimes it shows up and it

536
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: just conquers raw military force, but more often it shows up.

537
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: It sets some local leaders up as client kings and

538
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: slowly romanizes the area like trading with them, taking a

539
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: little bit of tribute but not a ton, and then

540
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: slowly takes over more and more. Like there's no literally,

541
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: the only way to stop this is to kill your colonizer,

542
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: as for Churchill put it, by the time we're in

543
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: the current era, Rome is all over the fucking place.

544
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: A Smithsonian magazine put it, quote the Imperial Navy had

545
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: turned the Mediterranean into a Roman lake, and they're like,

546
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: all right, I want that Germania thing too, mostly because

547
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: it's at the edge of their own borders, not because

548
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: it's a particularly interesting or wealthy place.

549
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do you.

550
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: Know what is both interesting and wealthy you after you

551
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: purchase the products and services that support this show. You

552
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: caught me again, especially sports gambling, which I can't even

553
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: straight face. Don't sports gamble. It's bad if we advertise it.

554
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Anyway, here's our.

555
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 2: Ads and we're back.

556
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of point for Rome to take

557
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: over Germania. They there's not even that many people to

558
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: build client kingdoms from because there's not really kingdoms. There's

559
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: not really any gold or silver to steel. There's some

560
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: limited trade, but not really enough to make a ton

561
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: of money by taxing it. The Germans make good mercenaries,

562
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: and a ton of them are already serving in the

563
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: Roman military, but it isn't even good farmland. The soil

564
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: is really shitty. Apparently, I read one historian called it

565
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: too sticky, and I don't know what that means. I

566
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: don't either, But if you're in Germany, sorry about your

567
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: sticky soil.

568
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: Sticky, that's just so gross.

569
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: I know. Sticky is like almost never a good word.

570
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: Rarely is it a good like even if I'm describing

571
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: candy like I don't want sticky candy. I want candy

572
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: that almost is sticky, but I wouldn't describe it as sticky.

573
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: Well, then don't start chewing German soil.

574
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to okay, mostly on account of I

575
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: don't live on that continent.

576
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the only reason. Before the development of

577
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 1: better plows, apparently it was less good agricultural land than

578
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean area, at least by the Roman standards. It's

579
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: mostly like forests and swamps. It's a real Barbarian era area.

580
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I know about Germany as allegedly the land.

581
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: Of my people. Yeah, but Rome is Rome, and Rome

582
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: wants everything.

583
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: Them bitches you want and everything.

584
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: I mean, they really are. They just absolutely are like

585
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: greedy assholes who are like, we want to conquer fucking

586
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: everything because it like the concept of a morality or

587
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: that's bad. Hasn't really like hit the Western world, you know.

588
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus hasn't come to save us yet, I know.

589
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, then of course you know that whole will

590
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: become the state religion and that'll whatever.

591
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

592
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: So A good chunk of the modern border between France

593
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: and Germany is the Rhine, is the river r hin E,

594
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: and it's been roughly that border for a long ass time,

595
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: for about ten years, from six BCE to four CE.

596
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a zero CE. I don't know,

597
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: maybe it's eleven years. I don't know how to count.

598
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: Rome started setting up a militarized frontier along the Rhine,

599
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: and this is to stop the Germans from invading Roman Gaul.

600
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: But it's also the start of a settler colonial project

601
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: into Germania. And this is something that we've only learned recently,

602
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: like in the past thirty years out of the two

603
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: thousand years since this happened.

604
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: Wow, it's interesting that history like we keep learning more

605
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: about it. I know this is not as wise of

606
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: an aside as I thought it was going to be

607
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: when I started. I just think it's cool.

608
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: No, it blows my mind. Sometimes I'll find a source

609
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty and I'll be like, oh, well, that's

610
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: not gonna be as accurate even if I'm talking about

611
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, you know, yeah, because I'm like, oh, they

612
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: weren't as good at and not because like we're geniuses,

613
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: but because like the way we accumulate and develop science

614
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: and like understandings of history. But what's funny in this

615
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: particular case. So basically, for a long long time people

616
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: were like, oh, no, there wasn't really colonization of Germany happening.

617
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: It was just this border with this like angry tribes

618
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: on the other side, and some like they knew there

619
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: was some trade and stuff like that, but they didn't

620
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: realize there was colonization or settlers. Even though one of

621
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: the old Roman writers, Cassius Dio, who wrote a couple

622
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: hundred years later, he wrote about how Rome was starting

623
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: to set up cities and shit in Germania. But for millennia,

624
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: people thought he'd just be making shit.

625
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: Up, right, Well, because he does, right.

626
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, exactly, that's the like I distrust Tacitus

627
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: and Cassius Dio, right, But Cassius Dio wrote, quote, the

628
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: Romans were holding portions of Germania and soldiers of Theirs

629
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: were wintering there, and cities were being founded. The barbarians

630
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: are adapting themselves to Roman ways. We're becoming accustomed to

631
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: hold markets, and we're meeting in peaceful assemblages. And in

632
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, archaeologists discovered the ruins of a short

633
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: lived Roman style town. It gets called Waldegrimes, but that's

634
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: just the modern name. No one knows the original name.

635
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: Impeccable modern name though. I know that's the name of

636
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: my next Pathfinder character.

637
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: And you're just from Waldegrimes and you just go.

638
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: Home, Yeah, something like that. We'll workshop it later.

639
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this was a brand new settle. It wasn't

640
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: just like, oh, we're kind of converting people like they're

641
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: literally they show up and they build this town from

642
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: the ground up, full of Roman amenities like running water

643
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: and the sewage system.

644
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: Wait, Romans had running water too.

645
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh my god. The fact that they had

646
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: it at the frontier is a little bit wild to me.

647
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: I think that they did. The thing that I read

648
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: is like, look, we found lead pipes that are plumbing pipes,

649
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: and so we don't know as part of why Romans

650
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: fought a lot I think honestly, yeah, that makes sense.

651
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: And so yeah, this is twenty acre town. It's walled

652
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: off and it's full of running water and whatever. They

653
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: have amenities there. Fuck that rules, I know.

654
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 2: And then I mean fucked, like fuck the Romans, but

655
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: y'all got running water. That's the time of Jesus. I

656
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: clearly know a lot about history, and I'm kind.

657
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: Of showing, but I think that there is this like,

658
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: especially in the West, we have this very very linear

659
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: idea of history, right, and so like the idea that

660
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: like apparently in somehow I had to like double check

661
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: some shit. I was like, because I'd read this when

662
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: I was a kid, that Romans had running water, and

663
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: so I was like double checking and it was like, oh, yeah,

664
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: Romans had running hot and cold water at rich houses.

665
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: Like fuck, I only sometimes have hot water in my house.

666
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: You know. I don't want to limit to the Roman

667
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: Empire the same I don't want to limit the American Empire.

668
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, damn all right, people be smart. I know

669
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: you are fucking smart.

670
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: I know, and we also know. One of the smartest things.

671
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: We know that this place was built in exactly four BCE,

672
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: because we know when you build with wood. You can

673
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: just literally look at the rings in the wood and

674
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: map it to other trees in the air.

675
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, holy shit.

676
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, damn.

677
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, science is cool.

678
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: I know it's always used for bad shit, but it's

679
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 1: fucking cool in concept and like, and it's not bad

680
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: shit to look at this and learn when this place

681
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: was built.

682
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also obviously not neutral. You know, where it

683
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: gets funding and where get the resources to study is

684
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: obviously were not with all kinds of stuff. But I'm

685
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: not surprised that there's so much money getting poured into

686
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 2: discovering the ancient Germany and the Roman Empire.

687
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: Well, what's weird is actually modern Germany is like kind

688
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: of sketched out by ancient Germany right now, like because

689
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: modern Germany is like not excited about German nationalism.

690
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: Again, just a correct take out, No, I know, I'm

691
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 2: not going to riff about this with you.

692
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so for a long time archaeologist assume Walde

693
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: Grimes was just another military camp. But there wasn't a

694
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: single military building there and there were barely any like

695
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: spearheads or other military relics. It was a whole ass

696
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: trade town occupied by people who weren't afraid of being

697
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: attacked by Germans. So it's not just saying like, oh,

698
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: there's enough here that we can have a town. It's

699
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: saying that, like, we can have a town because we

700
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: think the Germans are our friends, you know, huh. And

701
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: in fact they know how the houses were built based

702
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: on where the postholes are and stuff, and like the

703
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: styles of building in different areas, and so there were

704
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: both Roman and German style buildings there.

705
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 2: Whoa.

706
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: And there was German jewelry around, not gathered up in

707
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: like trade form, but like probably being worn by people. Yeah,

708
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: there were limestone pedestals with limestone imported from Gaul upon

709
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: which set statues. Most likely this includes a life size

710
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: Augustus statue. He's the first Emperor of Rome and he's

711
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: in charge at this point when this happens.

712
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: I know that from the Bible.

713
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: Ah, that other book that has some historically accurate stuff

714
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: and a lot of other stuff.

715
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: He called for the census, which is why Mary went

716
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: back to Bethlehem.

717
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: I believe shit.

718
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I don't know if that's I'm remembering from

719
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: elementary school, a whole Sunday school.

720
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: So you know, no one actually knows what the Bible says,

721
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: no one's read it.

722
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: I certainly haven't. No, I just heard about it from

723
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: other people.

724
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you might be joking.

725
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: I'm not.

726
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. Somewhere are lost in between joking and

727
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: not joking. So there's an Augustus statue that's covered in

728
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: It's a bronze statue covered in gold leaf of him

729
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: astride a horse, and this is this monumental show of

730
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: wealth for this frontier town. You can make a lot

731
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: of weapons and armor with like six hundred pounds of bronze.

732
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of bronze.

733
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: And we know about the statue because after the city

734
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: fell because spoiler alert, the Romans are going to get

735
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: kicked out of Germany.

736
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: Oh.

737
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: I said that at the top, the head of the

738
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: horse is going to get chopped off by the barbarians

739
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: and then sacrifice to the water gods by putting it

740
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: at the bottom of a well.

741
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: Fuck.

742
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love that they don't even sacrifice Augustus's head.

743
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: They just like they do a lot of horse sacrifice

744
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: in this area at the time.

745
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, mixed feelings about that, but the

746
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: story is good.

747
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the rest of the bronze was turned into

748
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: weapons and armor probably, but lots of little bits of

749
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: it were found around this dig. But having a statue

750
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: of an emperor wasn't just like the way we would

751
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: do it now, where it's like this guy's so in

752
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: charge that fuck you.

753
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

754
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: Instead, with their religious understanding, it's basically saying, the emperor's

755
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 1: here with us.

756
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: Hmmm.

757
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: And so the Germans were beginning to Romanize, at least

758
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: some of them were. There was a lot of tension

759
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: between the tribes about this, and even within tribes, where

760
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: some tribes are like, yeah, fuck it and other ones

761
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: are like no, fuck you. There's a lot of fuck

762
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: in both directions.

763
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 2: Not a lot of fucking though, because they're not getting married.

764
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 1: No, yeah, no Germans ever had children.

765
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: If only, if only history was clean, just to.

766
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: Go back in time and distribute birth control very efficiently

767
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: in like nineteen twenties and like nineteen fifteen in Germany anyway,

768
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: that's called eugenics, and it's bad. See almost every episode

769
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: of this show. So one of these tribes in this

770
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: area is the Cheruski, and that's the Roman name for it.

771
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 1: No one knows the Germanic name for it. There's lots

772
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: of arguments about what it might be. This is one

773
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: of these tribes that they're really split on the whole

774
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: Rome thing. But the chief is pro Roman. Probably. I've

775
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: read a bunch of different modern writing about this shit.

776
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: Everyone is interpreting these old Roman historians and doing it

777
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: in different ways that don't line up with each other. Great,

778
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: but let's just say, you know, he's pro Roman. He

779
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: has a bunch of kids. One of them is going

780
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: to wind up with the Roman named Arminius, and he

781
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: is our main character, Arminius. He either joins the Roman

782
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: army voluntarily in a normal way as an adult, or

783
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: what I think is more likely, and I've just again

784
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: read both by people we seem to know what they're

785
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: fucking talking about, or he's sent to Rome as a

786
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: kid to be raised as a hostage. Have you heard

787
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: about this thing? This like kind of like nobility hostage stuff.

788
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: I've heard about it with regards to other conflicts, but

789
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about this in the context of

790
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 2: the Roman Empire. I've heard about it in like other stuff,

791
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: But tell me all about it.

792
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, fair enough, it's funny. I actually mostly know

793
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: about this from other cultures and like more like Renaissance

794
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: in medieval kind of conflict, which I just like know

795
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: more about in general.

796
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 2: Right, I feel like I know about this from Game

797
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: of Thrones.

798
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is some serious Game of Throne shit. Honestly,

799
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. I always thought it was like very medieval,

800
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: and then I started learning about the ancient world and

801
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: I was like, no, this actually is like far more

802
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: to do with like ancient world conflict than it does

803
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: like medieval, especially with that fucking Hadrian's Wall. I mean,

804
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm the wall, although it could just as easily be

805
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: the fucking fortification of the Rhine called the Limitus anyway, whatever,

806
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: So you basically just let your kid be raised by

807
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: another family from like kind of your enemies, and it's

808
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: a way of being like, well, of course you're not

809
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: gonna like be disloyal. We have your kid, but it's

810
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: not a like prisoner. I mean, it is a prisoner,

811
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: but it's like you're adopting the kid in a lot

812
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: of ways, you know.

813
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

814
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Arminius is the son of the chief of

815
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: this tribe, and so he's raised in Rome. Is the

816
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: most likely thing. Also read that he joined as an

817
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: adult whatever I don't care. He's in the Roman Army.

818
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,919
Speaker 1: He gets a Roman name. It possibly comes from maybe

819
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: he did work in Armenia, like for Rome, but I

820
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: don't know.

821
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: I was going to ask what the connection between his

822
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 2: name and Armenia was.

823
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, it might be that he like because there's

824
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: a lot of like Like later a dude named Germanicus

825
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: is going to show up and he's not German but

826
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: instead he fought in Germany.

827
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 2: Great, I want to know everything about how they're naming shit.

828
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are the kind of rabbit holes. I start

829
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: down and I'm like, the answer is kind of we

830
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, Arminius, that is one of the

831
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: things that people conjecture. He speaks Latin, he learns Roman tactics,

832
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: and he gets real good at Roman tactics, and that's

833
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: not going to go well for Rome.

834
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: Something something of the Master's tools.

835
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: I know, this is some serious like focos boomerang. Shit,

836
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: I almost did a whole aside about Foocos boomerang, but

837
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: you all can do it yourself, or listen to the

838
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: very first season if it could happen here, he's promoted

839
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: to the rank of equoit, which is basically a night.

840
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: I saw it translated first as night, and then I

841
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: was like, what the fuck Roman didn't have knights? And

842
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: then I like did a bunch of research, and I

843
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: was like, oh, he was an equite. Okay, great, which

844
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: I also didn't know anything about. But whatever, I mean,

845
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: I know everything. I don't have to do research. I

846
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: actually just was born knowing all this stuff. And he

847
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: becomes a Roman citizen. So the Roman army has legions,

848
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: which is like the more proper marching around in squares

849
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: fucking people up because they have impeccable tactics. And then

850
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: they have auxiliaries, and the auxiliaries are like stranger units

851
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: built out of colonized people.

852
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 2: Funky.

853
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's leading a unit of auxiliaries of his

854
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: own people in the Balkans for a while, and so

855
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: he's actually doing colonizing for Rome, right, And this actually

856
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: makes him very comparable to Oh my god, my favorite

857
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: person I've ever covered on show, the gay Irish knight

858
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: who stopped Leopold Roger Casement. There's an episode I did

859
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: a long time ago about this gay Irish knight who

860
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: was part of the British colonial service. And then he

861
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: was like, I think I'm on the wrong side, and

862
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: he instead intervened in King Leopold of Belgium's massacre of

863
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: eight million, like a genocide that he was doing in

864
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,760
Speaker 1: the congress. Shit, and he was part of the bringing

865
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: down that ending that genocide, and then he went and

866
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: helped end another genocide and then he was like, you know,

867
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: Ireland's not doing great either, yeah, and so then he

868
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: like he did a treason even though he was a

869
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: knight in the British Empire, and they killed him, but

870
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: he was part of the Easter Rising or he was

871
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: trying to provide weapons for the Easter Rising. But then

872
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: when he died, he's the last person to get hanged

873
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: because he's not caught in the rising, right, and he's

874
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: on trial and everyone's like, oh, he's a true patriot.

875
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: But then they found his sex journal, Oh my god,

876
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: and it's basically like he's a size queen and he

877
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: like has fucked so many people all over the world

878
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: that he like writes out how big their dicks are

879
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: and shit, holy shit, and then the fucking piece of

880
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: shit Catholic Irish people are like, not all of them,

881
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: but an off of them are like, oh, this guy's

882
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: not our guy. We don't like him anymore, and then

883
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: they fucking hanged down mn.

884
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: Fuck that.

885
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: And he's one of the best people's ever lived, as

886
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: far as I can tell. But he also started off

887
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: by being on the wrong side. He was part of

888
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: the British Columby service. And Arminius is actually not going

889
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: to have that noble of an ending because Armenius is

890
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: not as good of a person. But we'll get to that.

891
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: We'll get to our Minius's end, but we won't get

892
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: to it until Wednesday, because we're actually at the end

893
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: of today. Today is now over. Officially, set your clocks

894
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: to midnight.

895
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 2: Oh but I want to hear the end.

896
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: Oh well, then you have to wait till actually you

897
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: only have to wait a couple of minutes, but everyone

898
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: else is to wait till Wednesday, because we are going

899
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: to talk about the kind of least intelligent and capable

900
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: Roman officer that you will ever read about that will

901
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: make fiction look fake, and about an ambush that will

902
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: change the world. And also how Arminius should have read Tolkien.

903
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that on Wednesday.

904
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 2: Everyone should. It's the Holy Book.

905
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: It is, there's no problems with it, except for all

906
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 1: the racism mm hmm, probably some other stuff too, But

907
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: before that, do you have anything you want to plug?

908
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: Is there anything if people want to hear about you

909
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: interacting with battle, Is there any way that people can

910
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: do that?

911
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: Well, no they can't, because Margaret I have never battled

912
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: or committed any crimes. But if people would like to

913
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: hear about a band of erstwhile revolutionaries fighting some frogs

914
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 2: in between revolutions, you can head over to the cool

915
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: Zone Media book Club feed and take a listen to

916
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: our Pathfinder play through. That's you and me and Robert

917
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 2: and iow and it's DMed by Jason Bullman and it's

918
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: pretty fun, I think.

919
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in this feed too, I hear it is.

920
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: And also the sound design is really good. And if

921
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: you're one of the people who listens to the show

922
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: and then skips book club, I don't know, do whatever

923
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: you want. But one thing you can do is listen

924
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: to it.

925
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:55,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, or you could just like put it on before

926
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: you go to sleep and not listen to it, but

927
00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: make sure that we get the place. That would also

928
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 2: I take that too.

929
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, there's no uh no problems. Yeah, that's what

930
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: I want to plug too. Because I'm also in it

931
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 1: and my character's name is Spie and she was named

932
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: after the Virtues. Anyway, Yeah, I'll see you all on Wednesday.

933
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: He CEA Cool People Who.

934
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

935
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website

936
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

937
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.