1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about how 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: much I Christopher Wong hate the police and specifically the 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Chicago Police Department. UM and we are bringing you part 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: two of my interview with Chicago journalist Raven about more 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: crimes of the Chicago Police Department, the rich national in fact, 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: and how the police weaponize racing class lines in order 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: to preserve their power enjoy. You know, I spent a 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: lot of time just like in like cops social media spaces, right, 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: and of course it's like rotting my brain, and you know, 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: it's it's honestly just really tough to deal with sometimes. 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: But you know one thing that we see, like over 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: and over again if you look at the memes that 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: they share and the the posts that they write on 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Facebook and all of these things, is it's they see 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: the people as their enemy, right like they're they're trained 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: the military. The militarization of the police isn't just about 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: the equipment that they have and the money that they have. 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: It's also about their psychology and how they they view 19 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: themselves as like warriors fighting the bad guys. But because 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: of the nature of policing, the bad guys are literally 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: anyone who isn't complying with what they say. And usually 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: this is like black people, you know, marginalized people, poor people, um. 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: And then there's sort of this like you see a 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: lot of these like memes where they they talk about 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: themselves as like sheep dogs protecting the sheep from the wolves. 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, and like the sheep are supposed to be 27 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: like the innocence, which typically if you really go deep 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: into it, it's like in their minds. That's like women 29 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: and children who are like mostly white, right, Like they 30 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,279 Speaker 1: think they're protecting like white innocence from like bad guys. 31 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: And and there are layers to it, right because like 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: obviously it doesn't always work out that way. And you know, 33 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: there are like poor white people in rural areas who 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: deal with police repression. You know, there are like wealthy 35 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: black people who get pulled over by the cops just 36 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: because they're driving well black. Like, there are certainly like 37 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: layers upon layers here, depending on like class and and 38 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: just everything. But at the end of the day, like 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: they're training themselves up to be a military fighting the 40 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: people in invading their spaces, taking over, and the psychology 41 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: of it is just really really dark too, because you 42 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: have these people who because because we're sending them into 43 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: underresourced communities sort of after the fact, after trauma has occurred, 44 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: after there have been there's been violence, there's been shootings, 45 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: everyone's poor, you know, whatever, We're sending them into these 46 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: places where there's just like the most horrible things about 47 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: poverty and about violence are happening, and that's all they're 48 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: exposed to. So then they end up with PTSD or 49 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: all of these problems, you know, like the alcoholism rate, 50 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: the domestic violence rate, all of these things within the 51 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: traugal beliefs force are extremely high. And all of this 52 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: comes back to because we're treating everything as punishment. We're 53 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: coming in after the fact. We're not actually treating these 54 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: problems at the source. We're just sending people in to 55 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: to manage the chaos after the fact, and then they 56 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: end up traumatized, they end up enacting more crime and 57 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: more violence for these communities, and it just becomes a 58 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: cycle but no one can get out of. And then 59 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: it and it comes back to just like defunding the 60 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: police and and state priorities, like where are we putting 61 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: our resources, because if we were putting them in the 62 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: right place, so many of these things wouldn't be happening 63 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: in the first place. Yeah, and I think one everything, 64 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: I think it's important to note that we talked about 65 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: this on our you know, the episodes about the cartels. 66 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: We talked about this on our episodes about the other 67 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: episodes about chocol Police, which is that the other thing 68 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: that happens is that the Chicago police just they you know, 69 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: they they see the drug trade and they go, Okay, 70 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: we're just gonna get in on it, and you know, 71 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: and the the sort of the combination of these people, 72 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: these just incredibly violent, armed people with total impunity and 73 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of money, is that you know, they 74 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: they they they become themselves just you know, they they 75 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: become exactly the same thing that there that they were 76 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, nominally supposed to be fighting. And that has 77 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: all of these these downstream effects. If you talked about 78 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: the way that the way that this militarizes basically everything, right, 79 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: this this militarizes the police just has that, you know, 80 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: the violence of it has the effect of militarizing like 81 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: militarizing everyone else, militarizes the non sate actors, and it 82 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: just sort of it just keeps rashing up the level 83 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: of violence, and as long as you keep throwing the 84 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: state at it, and as long as the state just 85 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: keeps essentially like going, okay, I just okay, we have 86 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: a drug trade. I'll just got a cut of it. 87 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: And as long as that keeps happening, like all of 88 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 1: the stuff that the cops are, you know, nominally there 89 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: to to deal with, it's just going to keep escalating 90 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 1: because the state that like because just because state violence 91 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: is intensifying and making it worse, right, right, and it's 92 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: just so like they're so fucking racist, Like I just 93 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: can't I mean, like I don't. We have to we 94 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: have to keep talking about that because it's just like 95 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: so much of just like where like where they get 96 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: their information and how they exchange Like if you look 97 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: at these cops social networks and where they're getting their information, 98 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: and the kinds of things they're saying to each other 99 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: about black people in Chicago are all so ridiculously wrong 100 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: because they're just parroting these like cop blogs that they 101 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: read full of all kinds of just that shit fucking 102 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories about like our our black d a or 103 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: prosecutor excuse me, Kim Fox being like a puppet of 104 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: George Soros. They literally believe this, and and it's echoed 105 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: by people like Tucker Carlson, you know, in national media, 106 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: like anytime Chicago comes up, you will hear these kinds 107 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: of just completely off the wall conspiracy theories about like 108 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: communist BLM an Tifa, Sourro funded Kim Fox, like ruining Chicago. 109 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: And and I'm not like defending Kim Fox. Don't getting wrong. 110 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: She's still a prosecutor, she's still like putting people in jail. 111 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: But she you know, she was elected because she was 112 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: to do she was supposed to be this big reformist 113 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: and and all of that, and so she's become a target. 114 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: And then she's also become a target for them because 115 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: she's a black woman, so it's easy for them to 116 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: to make her into a lightning rod of hate basically. Yea. 117 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: And you know, like they just the dehumanization of of 118 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: black Chicagoans that you see in these in these Facebook 119 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: posts that these people are writing and the things that 120 00:07:53,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: they're tweeting, like it is violently disturbingly racist. And all 121 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: of that comes back to just how they view themselves 122 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: as like an occupying army in these communities, Like they 123 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: don't view themselves as like cooperative partners in helping these communities. 124 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: Like it's no words, there to occupy, We're there to 125 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: extract resources. We're there to like you know, benefit off 126 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: of this gay warfare if we can, you know, and 127 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: and like you mentioned, like if you look at like 128 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: the corruption and and the things that that have gone 129 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: on with that, I mean, like I mean that goes 130 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: back to city council, right. I mean we have we 131 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: have alder men. We have we have older people who 132 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: are essentially in bed with the cops, looking for looking 133 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: out for them and you know, like their dedicated cop alderman. 134 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: I mean, like all of our Chicago aldermen are older people, 135 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: excuse me, are Democrats by name. But it's like no, 136 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: we have five or six other people who are Republicans. 137 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: Like they call themselves Democrats because they wouldn't be able 138 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: to be elected in Chicago if they didn't. But they 139 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: are absolutely like cop loving Republicans. You know, they just 140 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: call themselves Democrats because they like support gay marriage or whatever. 141 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: Well it's because it's Chicago and you like you can't 142 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: run it, like the like the the the only time 143 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: a Democrat has ever lost one of these elections was 144 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: the time a I want blanking on the name of 145 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: the cult I the time of Larushite accidentally won the primary. 146 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: Lots of like that. That's basically it. Like yeah, I mean, 147 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: it's it's it's you know this this is a democratic city, 148 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: but you know, the democratic city just means incredibly right 149 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: wing and police which right, Yeah, And when you look 150 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: at the history of policing in Chicago, you have to 151 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: go back decades and decades and kind of look also 152 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: to it like where a lot of these cops came from. 153 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: In the aftermath of like the dissolution of like the 154 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: official like mafia and like al Capone and all that stuff, 155 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: you had a lot of working class immigrants from like 156 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: European communities like the Polish community, the Irish community, the 157 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: Italian community, and all of these communities have their own 158 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: like police associations here, like the Italian American Police Association, 159 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: the Polish American Police Association, all of these things, and 160 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: so like it becomes this being a cop to go 161 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: back to sort of like the international ties here, being 162 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: a cop becomes this like identity for them and their families. 163 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: Like a lot of people are cops because they're dad 164 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: was a cop, their grandpa was a cop, their cousins 165 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: are cops, their brothers are cops. There's like a family 166 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: honor sort of in like being a cop, and and 167 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: a lot of them show, you know, and that that 168 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 1: that goes back to why they show so much solidarity 169 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: too with like cops from other countries, is it's like 170 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: the profession in and of itself is lionized. And then 171 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: on top of that, you have right now in Chicago, 172 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: like because of gentrification, because of just like immigration patterns 173 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: and the way communities have changed, we have these like 174 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: traditionally Polish Italian communities that feel like they're being encroached 175 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: upon by mostly like Latin X communities. So we had, 176 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: for example, like you know, this woting um the murder 177 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: of Anthony Alvarez up on up on the northwest side, 178 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: the far northwest side of Chicago last year, and in 179 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: the aftermath of that, we saw a lot of like 180 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: pension between the traditional like Polish Polish American community up 181 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: there and then the new wave of like Latin X 182 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: immigrants um. And the problem is a lot of the 183 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 1: people in the Polish community up there have family and 184 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: relatives who are cops. So we had like cops trashing 185 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: the memorial, you know, to the to Anthony Alvarez. We 186 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: had like Polish biker gangs like riding by the rallies 187 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: trying to like intimidate people. And it all comes back 188 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: to like white supremacy and and just straight up racism, right. 189 00:12:49,679 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: Like there's another example of that with like the the 190 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: Columbus statue that was sent here by Bussolini that eventually yeah, 191 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: one of the like one of the I guess you'd 192 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: call it the second wave of the uprising in Chicago 193 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: was a bunch of people, like enormous members of people 194 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: throwing things at cops who were attempting to defend the statue. 195 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: And this was like a huge like the Italian like America, 196 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: like the right wing of it got like extremely mad 197 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: about this, and there was all of this sort of 198 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, there's all the sort of tension between like 199 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: between these these different yeah, and some of that comes 200 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: back to like also, um, the construction of of the 201 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: inter state. Right, So like in the I don't know 202 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: when they started building the highways down by U. I. C. 203 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: Is like in the fifties, of the sixties, right, you 204 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: had this like traditional Italian American community down there by 205 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: University of Illinois, Chicago and like on Taylor Street, and 206 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: then people built the highway and it like funked up 207 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: a bunch of ships. You know, some people had to 208 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: sell their homes, you know, some their traditional neighborhood was 209 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: like destroyed. All of these things, and then this university 210 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: is built and that coincides with that, and so you 211 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: end up getting a lot of like old school racist 212 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: Italian getting piste at the students and at the school 213 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: and everything in the aftermath. And it's a really really 214 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: multicultural school. I don't know if you're familiar with you 215 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: I see, but it's like, yeah, so U I see 216 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: has like one of the largest immigrant student population student 217 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: bodies like in the country. Um, it's just a very 218 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: very diverse school. I'm pretty sure white well are actually 219 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: a minority if you look at like the demographics of 220 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: just like how people identifying student surveys. U i C 221 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: is the University of Illinois and Chicago. Uh. Yeah, it's 222 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: one of the big universities in the city. Yeah, just 223 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: for the non Chicago wins. Yeah, yeah, different, there's a 224 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: different one University of Chicago. That's like I went to 225 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: They've got their whole thing going on because their campus 226 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: police force is one of the largest private police forces 227 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah, and you know, I guess we 228 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: can talking about that a little bit too, because that's 229 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: this sort of like it's kind of horrible bind where 230 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, so it's that that police force is 231 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: one of the largest police forces in the world. It 232 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: has shot students, it has shot people who are not students. 233 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: It does a bunch of horrible things. But then you know, 234 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: sometimes you're there's there's this kind of trap, right, because 235 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: like one of one of the things that happens is like, well, okay, 236 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: so you get rid of the u c p D, right, 237 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: and then then you know, okay, so they're gonna bring 238 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: the Chicago Police Apartment in and it's like the Chico 239 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: Police Department are like one of the few institutions in 240 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: the world that's worse than like the regular UCPD, and 241 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: it's you know, and that was that was one of 242 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: the things that that was really inspiring. Um was just yeah, 243 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: the way that the abolished the Chicago Police Department like 244 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: movement was sort of like infolded in this broader, just 245 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: this broader potential just abolished Chico, the Chicago police in general. 246 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: But it's this weird thing where it's like you have 247 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: these you have these occupation zones, and it's like that 248 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: that that part of the South Side and then the other. 249 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: The other thing I think that people don't understand about 250 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: Chicago Police Department is that they have an absolutely enormous 251 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: range that they patrol. Right that that doesn't include that 252 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: it's way it goes way off campus like they have. 253 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: They have an absolutely enormous range of things they conclude 254 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: and they do things like uh, you know, they'll they'll 255 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: just like like like lock down the entire campus and 256 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: they'll just do this just happen because there they'll be 257 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: like chasing someone who like like one of one of 258 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: the one of the times while I was there, someone 259 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: like they like stolen something from like a video game store, 260 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: and the whole campus got locked down, like the cops 261 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: are screaming and everyone to stay in the buildings, like 262 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: and they just like, you know, they had this play 263 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: like enormous numbers of cops just sort of like swarmed 264 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: through the entire the entire campus for like an hour. 265 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: And this is just like happens. I mean there's cops everywhere. 266 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: They just they do stuff like that, and there's this 267 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: whole you know, and and but this is one of 268 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: the other things where you get these tensions because so 269 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: you Chicago, the University of Chicago also has like it's 270 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: not as large, but also has like a like it 271 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: also has like a pretty large international student immigrant like population. 272 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: And there was this uh, there was there was there 273 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: was a Chinese national student who got shot, who got 274 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: shot a robbery last year, and that was a huge 275 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: I think there was last year that was yeah, it 276 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: wasn't it was last year. Yeah, yeah, And that turned 277 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: into a huge thing where you had the sudden you know, 278 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: because we had the anti police protests. But then suddenly 279 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 1: there was this huge wing of like basically the right 280 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: wing faculty, a bunch of just like absolutely reactionary like 281 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: extremely rich CCP scions and like this this sort of 282 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: like ducleus of of the like the people like people 283 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: in the right wing law faculty, like Echon people who 284 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: suddenly had this like giant thing that was like it 285 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: was it was it was a sort of microcosm of 286 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: of of the broader sort of like turn against the 287 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: anti police movements by using crime, and they had this 288 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: whole thing is that we need to keep the campus safe. 289 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, we need to give you the 290 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: UCPD the ability to lead to to go off of campus, 291 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: which you know they already had there, Like we need 292 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: to get them more money, We need to have more 293 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: cops everywhere, and it was just and it's it's just 294 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: this sort of like you get this horrible, horrible sort 295 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: of pendulum effect where like you get this violence and 296 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: then you know, people like the like the the rights 297 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: response to that violence is just to create is you know, 298 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: just descended more cops to create more violence, and it 299 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: just keeps escalating and keep escalating, and it's it's and 300 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: then you know, and then there's there's a sort of 301 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: dynamic of this right where rich students at the unniversary 302 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: of Chicago, And this is so some extent this is 303 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: it's mostly a class embraced thing, but it's not entirely, 304 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: but like people who go there just like have this 305 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: like incredible fear of literally everyone around them. It's like 306 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: they turned to many cops. Like there are people who 307 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: are screaming about how like just the red line is 308 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: not safe at night, and I was like, I have literally, 309 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: like I have walked like thirty blocks back home at 310 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: two in the morning and been completely fine. Like you 311 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: guys are just cowards, but and you know your your 312 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: cowards and extreme brasis. But like, yeah, like all all 313 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: all of these sort of factors blend together and you 314 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: get these You get these coalitions of of these these 315 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: right wing pro police people who want to just not 316 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: not just like you know, not not just support the police, 317 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: but want to continue to expand it so they can 318 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: feel safe. And it's like you're not, you're not even endangered, 319 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: but they have they have they have the same sort 320 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: of like this whole town is trying to kill us, 321 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: like racist cop rand mentality, and yeah, sorry, this is 322 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: this is this being upset about this because I feel 323 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: you and it's like it's and but it relates back 324 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: to kind of like campus policing in general and kind 325 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: of why it exists, which is that a lot of colleges, 326 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean not all of them, It depends on where 327 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: you are, but like some colleges, especially in like large 328 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: urban areas you know, are we're built in the middle 329 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: of like largely black communities to a t yeah, and 330 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: because the land was cheaper to buy. You know, there 331 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: are reasons why necessarily, like they're built in these spaces, 332 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: and so the campus police departments function as just a 333 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: way to like keep this students isolated from the community. 334 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: Like it's making a community within a community. It's making 335 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: this little enclave. And then of course people are are 336 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: then going to view anyone outside of that enclave with 337 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: like racist suspicion. Right, And if you have immigrant students 338 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: who may or may not be wealthy, it's a punkum 339 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: where they come from. But UFC has like a lot 340 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: of as far as I am aware, like wealthy international students. 341 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: And they might be coming from countries where like there 342 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: aren't any black people or there aren't very many. And 343 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: just because they're they're coming from like this country doesn't 344 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they like our left wing. So they 345 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: they're coming into these communities, you know, with not a 346 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: lot of experience just sort of around people who look 347 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: different from them, and so they're going to be of 348 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: course looking to like these police figures than to quote 349 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: protect them. But but to go back to it, it's like, okay, well, 350 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: if you are feeling unsafe on the train at night, 351 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: for example, why why isn't the train safe? Like why 352 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: are people using it as you know shelter? Why are 353 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: people doing drugs on the train? Like why is there 354 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: violence happening? And that just comes back to again like 355 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: we're not actually addressing the route problems by just adding 356 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: more police. And I will say, like I think, I 357 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: think again, Like the other thing that's happening here is 358 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: really just the University of Chicago, like is a place 359 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: to which the world's at least is transplanted. And yeah, 360 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: and you can see this like very clearly along because 361 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: like yeah, like there's the wealth gap between like between 362 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: poor international students of rite national students is like it's 363 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: it's the largest single wealth gap in like in this 364 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: in the entire university. It's it's unbelievable. Um. And you know, 365 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: and you could you could just you can watch it 366 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: playing down on class lines and a place down other 367 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: lines right where you have like like you know, you 368 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: like yeah you have like you have both we have 369 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: students from I don't know, you have China, student from Vietnam, 370 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: and like one of them will be trans and you 371 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: know it turns yeah, it's like oh hey, look like yeah, 372 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: like when when when when you have like when you 373 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: have a Chinese trans student, Right's like, yeah, they're there. 374 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: They the people who back home had have experienced depression 375 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: in various ways, are consistently like consistently um or like 376 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: consistently anti police, and consistently like significantly less bad about 377 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: this stuff. It's it's in my experience, it's it's very much. 378 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: Is just you have this sort of transplanted like you 379 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: have the short of transplanted a leief and by the 380 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: countries to come to the Diversity of Chicago so they 381 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: can you know, study economics and go back to their 382 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: own countries and like continue to like rob their own populations. 383 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: And those people are the ones who are doing this stuff. 384 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: And it's I don't know, it's you see a lot 385 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: of kind of like this like I think really misguided 386 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: like anti racism. That's like, well, okay, we have to 387 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: take the security concerns of of of these these of 388 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: of Asian people seriously. It's like these are this is 389 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: this is the Chinese ruling class, this is the this 390 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: like you don't need to take these people's concerns seriously. 391 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: They are finatally they're ferocious right wingers who just read 392 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: Hyatt for the first time. Like, you guys, these these 393 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: are these are not the same people as the people 394 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: who are suffering under the like right right, And we 395 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: saw that. We saw that too with like the big 396 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: wave of of stop Asian hate protests here last year 397 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: where we had like this big rally down in China Town, 398 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: um with like a huge, huge number, like hundreds of 399 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: people from the community came out and and you had 400 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: a lot of younger people who very much had like 401 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, defund the police kind of sentiments. But then 402 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: you had we had like police representatives speaking at the rally, yeah, 403 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: about how they were going to to make like Chicago 404 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: safer for Asian people. It's like this stuff like it 405 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: makes me so angry, like CPT yeah no it it 406 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: was regular CPD. Like I I'm Chinese. They almost killed 407 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 1: me on campus. Like these people like they're not these 408 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: these these they they're like the police don't keep us safe. 409 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: But like you know, there's been this, there's been this 410 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: incredible weaponization of of the Asian American community, Like you 411 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: see this, you see this in China Town. There's there's 412 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: been this like that. There's like China Town is like 413 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: this is different. Even in the last like like three 414 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: or four years, has turned into this just like like 415 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: incredibly right wing. I mean it's it's not everyone, but 416 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: like you see like they're they're like I like there, 417 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: there's there's a there's there's there's a bench in uh 418 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: in Chicago in front of the library right that had 419 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: they have these tables and the tables have an engraved 420 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: plaque on them that says no loiter ring and that 421 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: says we will call the police on you if you loiter. 422 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: That this is outside of the library. Like it's yeah, 423 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: there's they have this sort of like incriticis incredibly right wing, 424 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: like anti anti like anti like homeless people campaign that's happening, 425 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: and it's it's I don't know, it's it's one of 426 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: just the most depressing things I've seen here because you have, 427 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, you have the Chamber of Commerce is to 428 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: sort of like you know as the most powerful political 429 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: force in a lot of these communities, and like those 430 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: people's are right wingers and they just they they don't 431 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: have the same interests as like the rest of the Asia, 432 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: of the Asian American community, and it you know, and 433 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: it gets you get this horrible horrible thing, which is 434 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: what was happening on the Esaro campus, which is like 435 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: essentially the right wing like pitting the right wings like 436 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: just just pitting the like basically basic like like pitting 437 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: Asians against black people. And it's horrible and it just 438 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: comes back to like who who is benefiting from this? 439 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: Like who when we when we have immigrant communities or 440 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: nonimmigrant communities, you know, like being upset with other communities, 441 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: What are the greater forces here that are like benefiting 442 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: from that sort of like infiting. And it's always like 443 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: the fascist pops who who ultimately come out of the 444 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: top there because if they can keep the people fighting 445 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 1: amongst themselves, or they can stoke prejudice and racism between 446 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: the people, you know, they can then come in and 447 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: scoop up resources. And when you look at like a 448 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: school like University of Chicago, they just have a massive, 449 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: massive amount of money, right, Like the resources there are 450 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: just unbelievable. And so of course you're going to have 451 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: people in the community who are resentful of that, who 452 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: are upset about that because like they don't have affordable housing, 453 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: they don't have good jobs, like they're trying to make 454 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: a living and keep their kids safe, and here's this 455 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: like university in the middle of their neighborhood with all 456 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: of this money. And wow, I'm so amazed. I'm just 457 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: so happy that like somebody's doing construction right now outside 458 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: my apartment. Thank you for this timing. I'm so glad 459 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: about them. Um. But but essentially, like you know, you 460 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: they the students, the students end up being a scapegoat 461 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: for all of their like all the communities like justified 462 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: fears about what's going on, right, they're justified in being 463 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: upset that they don't have these resources. But it's not 464 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: necessarily like the individual students. Yeah, and and there there 465 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: have been a lot of really good so like right 466 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: right before one of the things that was happening in 467 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: High Park, right before I got there was there was 468 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: this huge campaign. Basically there wasn't a level one trauma 469 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: center like on this outside, and so you know, if 470 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: you get shot, right, they have to like take you 471 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: in a helicopter to the north side to a hospital there, 472 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 1: and you know in that time, like there's a good 473 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: chance you're gonna die. And there had there had been one, 474 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: but it got shut down because it wasn't making any 475 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: money and so you know, there was this huge uh 476 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: community student campaign to like to force the university to 477 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: open one of these trauma centers. And so I think, 478 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: and I think it's important that like we don't have 479 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: to fight each other like that. That's not a thing 480 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: that you know, like yeah, like I think I think 481 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,479 Speaker 1: like that university, I I don't think it should continue 482 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: to exist. I think at the at least it should 483 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: be like taking out of community control. But who but 484 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: like yeah, like for the people who are there, and 485 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, I think like for for the Asian Americans 486 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: listening to this, and for for for people who are 487 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: students like you, you do not have to be the 488 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: weapon of the cops. You don't. You can you can 489 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: work together and and and when you do that, you 490 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: can win and you can win. You can win like 491 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: really incredibly tangible games for the community, and you can 492 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: save people's lives, you know it also outside of campus, 493 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: same deal with Chicago police. Right, Like we don't need 494 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: to have the Eastern European communities fighting the Latino communities 495 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: fighting the Black communities, Like we don't need to have 496 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: these like all of these communities just like fighting each 497 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 1: other and out of like the actual oppressive forces at 498 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: the top. Um. But you know, right now we're at 499 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: like this kind of I don't know, I guess tipping point. 500 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: I think where either people start to show solidarity or 501 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: we're fucked. Like there are massive not to get like 502 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: super existential with you, but like there are massive, massive 503 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: forces right now, right wing forces trying to benefit off 504 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: of all of this factionalization. And as we see tanks 505 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: rolling into Ukraine, like that's this is a global phenomenon. 506 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: It's not just happening at home. It's happening everywhere, and 507 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: like we don't have a lot of time left to 508 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: stop this and to bring it back to this like 509 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: far right trucker foe trucker convoy show that's about to 510 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: happen and then roll into roll into our capital. Like 511 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm just struck by the timing of it all. And 512 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm certainly not going to be like a conspiracy theorist 513 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: about it and be like, well putin is has planned 514 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: this all happened at the same time. Um, But I 515 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: do think that whether or not it's like plans happen 516 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: at the same time, it's absolutely going to benefit these 517 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: people that you know, this is happening right now, And yeah, 518 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's the same thing with with just horrific 519 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: anti trans bills, said the anti transport like not bills, 520 00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: but in anti trans government action, I get is the 521 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: correct term in that's happening in Texas right now. Yeah, it's. Uh, 522 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, like people people draw comparisons to to the 523 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: Third Roich in to Nazi Germany and them banning like 524 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: you know, homosexual dance parties and things like that, you know, 525 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: like they didn't start out saying we want to kill 526 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: all the Jews. Like that's not like it doesn't you 527 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: don't start that way, you make you would do the 528 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: smaller attacks first, you build up to it. You take 529 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: power inch by inch until like nobody can stop you. Yeah, 530 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: but I think I think you know, there's there there's 531 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: an important note here, though, which is that, like it's 532 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: it's very easy to sort of, especially in times like this, 533 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: to sort of just like be be in a place 534 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: where it just it looks like history is just washing 535 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: over you, right that you know, we're we're we're bound 536 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: by these sort of irresistible powers and forces, and that's 537 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: not true. Like these these these these kinds of fascist 538 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: movements can be defeated. These kinds of militarist movements can 539 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: be defeated, but they they they they they can only 540 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: be defeated when we actually take our place as the 541 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: subjects of history, right like we we we are that 542 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: we are the people who, through our actions create history. 543 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: And you know when we also are the people who 544 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: create the world we see around us. But you know, 545 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: as David Graby was incredibly fond of saying, rights like 546 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: we we are the people who create the world around us, 547 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: and that means that we can it can be otherwise. 548 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: And you know when when we essentially like when we 549 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: when we reclaim our you know, our our status is 550 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: subjects are status is human beings are status as the 551 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: people of which history is composed of. And we move 552 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: we can stop these things like they're there. There do 553 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: not have to be another like that. There don't have 554 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: to be more Nazis, and don't have to be more genocience, 555 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: you don't have to be more worse. We can stop them. 556 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: We just have to fight, right. I don't disagree with that. 557 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: I think I think it's completely true. I guess I'm 558 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: just I don't know, maybe I'm like a dumer. I 559 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: don't know, like it's really hard right now to kind 560 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: of see I guess sort of mass resistance forming in 561 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: the US specifically just because of the way the pandemic 562 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: has wrecked US, and I feel like people are I mean, 563 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: people are just checked out right, Like they're exhausted, they're broke. 564 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: I you know, a million people have died because of 565 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: because of the government's just complete lack of adequate handling 566 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: of COVID and and so I completely agree that like 567 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: this isn't inevitable, like we can stop the US. At 568 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: the same time, I just I don't know what it's 569 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: going to take for Americans like as an entity to 570 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: actually stand up and fight this. And I'm not blaming 571 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 1: individual people, because it's like all the reasons for people 572 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: being exhausted and checked out are like also by design, right, 573 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: because of course, like if we keep people exhausted and 574 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: checked out, then the oligarchs at the top like can 575 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: continue to like loot society. Yeah, I mean I think 576 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm sort of less sang when on that, just because, like, 577 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: you know, because I remember this is the same thing 578 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: that like everyone said right before the uprising, like everyone 579 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: was checked out. Everyone was sort of like you know, 580 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: like the pandemic had just started. Everyone there's this like 581 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: general consensus that like mass action was impossible, and then 582 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, like two days later they burned down they 583 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,439 Speaker 1: burned down a police station and like deluding the American mile, 584 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: and you know, it's like it's like it's these these 585 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: these things, these things like you know, every like the 586 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: the people who are in some sense the most in 587 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: tune with like what is happening, it'll often tend to 588 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: be the people who are most shocked by when when 589 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: these kinds of things just emerge seemingly out of nowhere. 590 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: And so I don't know, I think, I think, I 591 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: think we can't know what exactly will set off the 592 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: next wave, but I but I think it's a safe 593 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: bet there will be another one, because there always is. Right. 594 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: We've never you know, we we we have yet to 595 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: hit a point so bad that people stop fighting like 596 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: ever in history. So yeah, yeah, And and that's the 597 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: long arc of history too, is it's like people have 598 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: always been fighting for their liberations in some way, and 599 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: if you look at the longer story, you know, there 600 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: might be very long periods of darkness and repression and collapse, 601 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: and then people emerge from that, and new societies emerge, 602 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: new ways of thinking all of that, and I think 603 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: where we're at now, like at this moment, there are 604 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: certainly small ways that people can resist and ways that 605 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: we like we have to focus on like our immediate 606 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: communities too. You know, it's so easy to get to 607 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: feel helpless when you like you look at things on 608 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: such a grand scale because of course, like we can't 609 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: all just like run in to Ukraine right now and 610 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: like stop putin like there's there's really not a lot 611 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: we can do when it comes to like things like that. 612 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: But we can like take care of our friends. We 613 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: can like make sure that the people immediately around us 614 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: like have what they need. We can like check in on, like, 615 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, our on house neighbors. We can like take 616 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, some people here in Chicago are prepping to 617 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: like take in Ukrainian refugees, for example, right now. And 618 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: and that's like the sort of action that like is 619 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: definitely going to be needed. Um. And you know, like 620 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: when you look at the story of like somethings as 621 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: horrible and just like awful, as a holocaust, like of course, 622 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: there are all all these like small stories of like 623 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: people who like sheltered people who are who are being 624 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: sought out, and you know, there were there were all 625 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: these different kinds of resistance movements in Germany and in Poland, um. 626 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,320 Speaker 1: And it's not just about like all the people that 627 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: that Hitler killed. It is also about all the people 628 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: that like we're that people managed to save, you know. 629 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: And it is also like I don't know we we 630 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: in America especially, it's like we gotta get away from 631 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: the Hitler comparisons, which I know I just like just made, 632 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: but like it's it's you know, like don't get me wrong, 633 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 1: Like there's obviously like plenty of parallels and and it's 634 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: important to be like students of history and like understand 635 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: what's going on and everything, but like we don't. What 636 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: we're seeing is like we're going to see a kind 637 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: of fascism that is unique to our era, right, Like 638 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: I don't know that Trump is going to come out 639 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: and call for like outright genocide and like you know, 640 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: build build death care, or like Rhonda Santis is going 641 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: to get elected and like build death camps. Like it's 642 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: going to look different than it has in the past, 643 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: even if like some of the phenomenon are similar. So 644 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: what we're looking at instead is like, especially with climate change, 645 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: we're looking at a lot of controls over borders. And 646 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: obviously some of that is like what's happening in Europe 647 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: right now too, but you know, people are going to 648 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: be looking to control resources like water, oil, land as 649 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: we know that they're like running out. And so this 650 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: this sentiment against like immigrants especially, you know, that's something 651 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: that is going to just keep getting worse, and so 652 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: I think it makes it harder for people to I 653 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: guess recognize that things are as bad as they were, 654 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Um, And ultimately, like it's just yeah, 655 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: mass resistance is the only way out right, Like the 656 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: people have to resist and we can't keep waiting for 657 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: like Joe Biden or or anyone to be our political savior. Yeah. 658 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: I think I think that's a that's that's a pretty 659 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: good note to end on. Yeah, thank you, thank you 660 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: for joining us. Do you have stuff that you want 661 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: to plug? Um, not at the moment. No, I mean 662 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: I think, uh, I guess our Twitter account, But that's 663 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: about it. Okay, Yeah, Well, this this has been this 664 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: has been another episode. If we can happen here. You 665 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Happen Here pod. 666 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: Uh you can find stuff at the Cool Zone with 667 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: a website, go there. Stop asking me for sources. They're 668 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,879 Speaker 1: they're on the website. They get out again uploaded. Uh yeah, 669 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: so oh yeah. Thank thank you once again for twenty 670 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: us It could Happen Here as a production of cool 671 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: Zone Media or more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit 672 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: our website cool zone media dot com, or check us 673 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 674 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for 675 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone Media 676 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.