Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a bride egg
Speaker 2: Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg, frid Egg,
Speaker 2: brigg Frida Egg, bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to
Speaker 2: run off the the.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frida Egg Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison, and
Speaker 1: today we are talking about designated events on the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: formerly known as elevated events. Frankly, elevated makes more sense
Speaker 1: in terms of nomenclature, but we're talking about the new
Speaker 1: series events of events on the PGA Tour that you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of concentrating the schedule around certain big tournaments
Speaker 1: that all the top players are going to be at.
Speaker 1: It's a major chain on tour that's really going to
Speaker 1: come into focus next season, but we're kind of rolling
Speaker 1: into it this season. And the occasion for this, of course,
Speaker 1: is that the Waste Management Phoenix opened. The first full
Speaker 1: field designated event of twenty twenty three is happening right
Speaker 1: now this week. Here to talk about all of the
Speaker 1: interesting issues around this with me is Andy Johnson. Andy,
Speaker 1: How's it going.
Speaker 2: It's going great, Garrett. I'm super excited about this. You know,
Speaker 2: as this came to fruition, I think there are some
Speaker 2: qualms about how it was rolled out this year, and
Speaker 2: you know, it goes back to kind of the response
Speaker 2: to live that the tour had last year, right, But
Speaker 2: I think the exciting thing about it is the is
Speaker 2: what's happening where we know when the best players are
Speaker 2: all going to be together, and then the future of it,
Speaker 2: what it looks like next year. Obviously it sounds like
Speaker 2: it's a pretty clean slate and next year is going
Speaker 2: to look a lot different than this year's elevated events look.
Speaker 1: So this year's elevated events, just to list them off
Speaker 1: for you, are the Century Tournament of Champions, which happened
Speaker 1: obviously early January at Kapalua. It didn't really feel like
Speaker 1: a full elevated event because it was kind of its
Speaker 1: normal self, right. It was the winners and some more
Speaker 1: you know, players from the past season. Rory McElroy wasn't there.
Speaker 1: The Tournament of Mostly Champions. It's the identity of that
Speaker 1: event is a little bit up in the air right now.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't full field, right, It was just Kapalalua.
Speaker 1: The Phoenix Open this year is going to be a
Speaker 1: little different. That's the first kind of real designated event.
Speaker 1: Then we have another one next week at the Genesis
Speaker 1: Invitational Riviera, then another one two weeks after that, the
Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer Invitational bay Hill. Players and the Majors are
Speaker 1: of course designated events. But the other ones that are
Speaker 1: not the players or the Majors would be the Dell
Speaker 1: Technology's Match Play Rip after this year, by the way way,
Speaker 1: the RBC Heritage at Harbortown, the Wells Fargo Championship, the
Speaker 1: Memorial Tournament, Jack's Tournament, the Travelers Championship, TPC River Highlands.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite kind of little PGA Tour events
Speaker 1: that the little tournament that could. That's going to be
Speaker 1: a designated.
Speaker 2: Event this year, just a little tournament that could. Given
Speaker 2: Bubba's comments about potential appearance fees, the table appearance fees,
Speaker 2: don't I don't know if we can we can label
Speaker 2: the Travelers as that. It seems like the crooked PGA
Speaker 2: Tour events.
Speaker 1: Is big insurance open. Uh yeah, well, I I like
Speaker 1: the Travelers Championship. I lived in Connecticut for a few
Speaker 1: years and went to a couple way back in the day.
Speaker 1: I think that's an outstanding venue. But yeah, it's no
Speaker 1: mystery why it would occasionally just get Roy McElroy, you know,
Speaker 1: showing up at the at the Travelers. There was maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit of money involved. Then the other designated
Speaker 1: events that I haven't mentioned yet are the FedEx Cup
Speaker 1: playoff events at the end of the season in August,
Speaker 1: so that's the Desert schedule. Majors too, Yeah, I mentioned
Speaker 1: that earlier. The Majors and the players those are yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, those are pre designated, like the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: didn't have to give it give it stamp of approval
Speaker 1: to those events in order for them to feel really elevated.
Speaker 1: But the rest of these events that I mentioned, these
Speaker 1: kind of normal PGA Tour events, some of which were
Speaker 1: bigger before and some of which didn't have that big
Speaker 1: status now have bigger purses, And that's basically what it
Speaker 1: is this year. Bigger purses and a guarantee that the
Speaker 1: top players are going to show up to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think, as you alluded to, the
Speaker 2: Kapalua event was not really like it's not what indicative
Speaker 2: of what a designated event is going to be and
Speaker 2: I think this week with the Waste Management, we're going
Speaker 2: to get our first look. It's it's pretty incredible place
Speaker 2: to have it roll out, obviously with the super Bowl
Speaker 2: in town this week, but I think there's a lot
Speaker 2: of questions about about what, you know, the future of
Speaker 2: these are going to look like and how different it
Speaker 2: will be from this week's elevated event at Waste Management
Speaker 2: that had a full field, had Monday qualifiers, had sponsor exemptions,
Speaker 2: and had you know, effectively a you know, top one
Speaker 2: twenty five plus extras. Feel so like, is that going
Speaker 2: to be the criteria going forward? And then you know,
Speaker 2: the most important, you know, one of the I don't
Speaker 2: think the most important question, but one big, really big
Speaker 2: question I have, what is Kapalua next year? Are they
Speaker 2: effectively like being held hostage to be a designated event
Speaker 2: because and you know, does it.
Speaker 1: Because of the concept of the tournament? Right, because because
Speaker 1: they have to have the winners there for it to
Speaker 1: be the tournament that it.
Speaker 2: Is exactly in the expansion of it's the top thirty
Speaker 2: now in the FedEx Cup is a is a going
Speaker 2: forward rule, right, So anybody that makes it to East
Speaker 2: Lake is there so this If it's not, it's another
Speaker 2: event that is kind of required, you know, by by
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour, but not maybe not required. If it's
Speaker 2: not required, how many guys are showing up if they
Speaker 2: have to play all these other events? Like I think,
Speaker 2: if it's not required, you run the risk of any
Speaker 2: European that it has Ryder Cup fantasies is not going
Speaker 2: to show up. You know, they will go to Dubai instead,
Speaker 2: you know, So, like do you want to lose John
Speaker 2: Ram who's obviously fallen in love with the event, who's
Speaker 2: shown up played extremely well the last two years at
Speaker 2: this event, like you know, and obviously so that that
Speaker 2: is a big conversation. Is that event going to expand out?
Speaker 2: Is it going to be bigger? Are these elevated events
Speaker 2: going to have different fuel sizes or are they going
Speaker 2: to be standardized?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean those are all really legitimate questions about
Speaker 1: the designated events, as you've been indicating. You know, it
Speaker 1: gets so complicated once you start thinking about actually executing
Speaker 1: this idea and all that. All the stakeholders who are involved,
Speaker 1: the players, the sponsors, you know, they're all going to
Speaker 1: have their own opinions about what this should look like,
Speaker 1: their own feelings about whether the old way was better
Speaker 1: than this new way, and so we'll get into all
Speaker 1: of that. But I think that you and I might
Speaker 1: agree that the Waste Management Phoenix Open is a really
Speaker 1: good event to designate, Like this feels like a one
Speaker 1: that should be designated maybe every year. Maybe it doesn't
Speaker 1: even need it every year, but this is a fantastic event.
Speaker 1: Has turned into an event that really kind of penetrates
Speaker 1: the general public consciousness in a way that most PGA
Speaker 1: Tour events don't. And a lot of that has to
Speaker 1: do with the crowds there and all the content that
Speaker 1: you get out of that the sixteenth hole scene. But
Speaker 1: also I think that this is a legit PGA Tour
Speaker 1: golf course. TPC Scottsdale is a well designed course. It's
Speaker 1: not you know, it's not Riviera. It's it's not maybe
Speaker 1: it's not Kapalua, you know. The architecture is esthetically just fine,
Speaker 1: But strategically, I feel like this is a pretty good
Speaker 1: golf course, especially on the back nine. Would you agree
Speaker 1: with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the front nine is quite forgetable, and
Speaker 2: I think but the back nine really culminates and the
Speaker 2: close of it is what you kind of want. And obviously,
Speaker 2: I think something that has to be talked about is
Speaker 2: the eighteenth hole. What it was ten years ago, even
Speaker 2: compared to what it is today. You know, it was
Speaker 2: a very difficult closing hole. And what technico you know,
Speaker 2: just the advancement of having one hundred guys on tour
Speaker 2: that hit the ball over three hundred yards versus you know,
Speaker 2: ten years ago there was maybe fifteen like that has
Speaker 2: really changed the dynamic of the clothes. But fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,
Speaker 2: we see this at a variety of courses. I you know, honestly,
Speaker 2: I think that the clothes at at PGA West is
Speaker 2: really good. I like, I have always been fascinated with
Speaker 2: the clothes at PGA West and it's simple. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: that that is the same recipe in a way PGA West,
Speaker 2: TPC Sawgrass has a similar recipe with a late, scorable
Speaker 2: par five, a shortish, shortish par three, and then a
Speaker 2: you know, a tough part four. Now TPC Scottsdale throws
Speaker 2: in a drivable par four into that mix, so you
Speaker 2: have you know, you know, what was once eighteen, you know,
Speaker 2: is not what it was because of just distance. Sheer
Speaker 2: like how far these guys are hitting it. But it
Speaker 2: once was a tough part four, But the recipe of
Speaker 2: two three really three really scorable holes coming down the
Speaker 2: stretch makes just theater. And I think sixteen obviously doesn't
Speaker 2: have the the trouble that PGA West or Scott or
Speaker 2: Sagress has around it, but it has the atmosphere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has a stadium. It doesn't need to be
Speaker 1: architecturally interesting. I kind of wish it were. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, because it's such a simple hole, it
Speaker 1: kind of allows the stadium atmosphere to be the star there.
Speaker 1: But fortunately the holes around it, fifteen seventeen I think
Speaker 1: are really well designed tournament golf holes. On fifteen, you
Speaker 1: have players laying up on that hole a little, you know,
Speaker 1: a little less than half of the time. Right it's
Speaker 1: an island green par five. Not everybody's going for that,
Speaker 1: especially if they don't drive it well. And so you know,
Speaker 1: that's a fun hole to kind of watch and see
Speaker 1: how the players approach it strategically. And then of course seventeen,
Speaker 1: the driveable par four. You know, it's not just unique
Speaker 1: because it's drivable. It's not just exciting for that reason.
Speaker 1: I think the reason that it's that it's fun to
Speaker 1: watch is that it combines a really wide way and
Speaker 1: a huge green with a lot of trouble right water
Speaker 1: all around, and so there's this huge range of outcomes.
Speaker 1: You know, you can be in a lot of different
Speaker 1: places on that hole because it's wide, because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of short grass, because the green is huge, you
Speaker 1: can be in a lot of different places. You can
Speaker 1: have a tricky chip from short grass, you can have
Speaker 1: a huge long putt, or you can be in the
Speaker 1: water off the tee, And just that range of potential
Speaker 1: outcomes is really what I'm looking for in a short part.
Speaker 2: For Yeah, I agree, especially when they get the pin.
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks, oh, the pins over on the left side
Speaker 2: by the water are super cool. When the pins are
Speaker 2: over right on the right side of the green and
Speaker 2: they and because that right side of the green, what
Speaker 2: it does is it really penalizes the bailout, and that
Speaker 2: I think is a is a general little bit of
Speaker 2: misconception is the cool pins, like if somebody's setting up
Speaker 2: the course that oh, we got to push it up
Speaker 2: against the water, that'll be really neat, But really, what
Speaker 2: when the pin's over on the right, it eliminates. It
Speaker 2: doesn't eliminate, but it it dissuades the bailout, which it
Speaker 2: you know, when the pins on the left, that bailout's
Speaker 2: very friendly because you have a lot of green to
Speaker 2: work with. But when the pin's either back or on
Speaker 2: the right side, that becomes a much more difficult shot.
Speaker 2: And you know, your percentages of the chance of making
Speaker 2: birdie from the bailout position gets much much smaller. And
Speaker 2: I think we've seen some really cool like one of
Speaker 2: the things that happens on that hole in particular is
Speaker 2: we see the ball on the ground a lot. You know,
Speaker 2: if you think about last year, Sahithagala is in, I
Speaker 2: think it was tied for the lead and he hit
Speaker 2: what looked like a great shot and it just got
Speaker 2: a bad bounce, it rolled down into the water. Ricky
Speaker 2: Fowler a few years ago hit it right through the
Speaker 2: green over the back what looked like a great shot
Speaker 2: and it got a hard bounce, you know, and everybody's, oh,
Speaker 2: did he take too much club. It's like, well, if
Speaker 2: he doesn't get that chasing bounce, if he give us
Speaker 2: a soft bounce that you know, we're talking about an
Speaker 2: iconic shot in his career. So I think that is
Speaker 2: one of the magical things about seventeen. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think it goes a little bit under the radar.
Speaker 2: You know, it's become it's risen in popularity. But one
Speaker 2: of the great things is is the penalty for bailout
Speaker 2: with those right pins in the backpin, but also the
Speaker 2: magic of the ball on the ground and that little
Speaker 2: bunker is placed perfectly where you know, you need to
Speaker 2: just barely carry that bunker in order run it up
Speaker 2: on the green, and you know, if you carry it
Speaker 2: too far you run the risk of running through. And
Speaker 2: thank god the PGA Tour hasn't put a grand stand
Speaker 2: behind the green yet, you.
Speaker 1: Know, because.
Speaker 2: That would really ruin the brilliant One other thing I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about with the course, and what I
Speaker 2: like about the golf course as a whole, is that
Speaker 2: it rewards distance a great in great degree. It is
Speaker 2: very advantageous to be long, but it's also almost equally,
Speaker 2: if not more, advantageous, to be accurate. You know, you
Speaker 2: look at the variety of winners of this at this place.
Speaker 2: You have Kevin Staler, not a long guy. You know,
Speaker 2: you have Phil pretty you know, long hitter, but you
Speaker 2: know can be crooked but the desert. But then you
Speaker 2: have Hideki twice. You have Web Simpson who won and
Speaker 2: lost in a playoff to Hideki, who's a very short,
Speaker 2: straight hitter. Hideki, I would say when he's playing well
Speaker 2: is a is a longer player, but very precise. Brooks
Speaker 2: Kepka's won it twice. Brooks Keopka. One of the things
Speaker 2: that's gone wrong with brooks Kepka in this kind of
Speaker 2: demise is he isn't as accurate as he was off
Speaker 2: the tee. He was kind of reached this unicorn status
Speaker 2: of a player because of the distance combined with the
Speaker 2: relative accuracy of that distance. You know, it's always important
Speaker 2: to when you're talking about like people will look at oh,
Speaker 2: this guy hits it really far and he's not straight
Speaker 2: based off his accuracy percentage, But that accuracy percentage needs
Speaker 2: to be considered with the distance that they're hitting it right,
Speaker 2: So it's not in apples. A two to eighty hitter
Speaker 2: who's sixty percent in the fairway is not in apples
Speaker 2: to apples as a three hundred hitter who's sixty percent
Speaker 2: in the fairway, that three hundred hitter who's who's sixty
Speaker 2: percent is far far more accurate, because the further you
Speaker 2: hit it, the less accurate you become.
Speaker 1: And this was the real secret of Beef Bryson. Right
Speaker 1: Bryson for what the height of his BFY era, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about not now, but at the you know,
Speaker 1: at his US Open winning height, he was combining distance
Speaker 1: with accuracy in basically an unprecedented combination, except if you're
Speaker 1: talking about maybe brooks Kepka in twenty eighteen, twenty seventeen
Speaker 1: at brooks Kepka's height, and so that that is an
Speaker 1: underrated thing.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that makes DJ and Rory such
Speaker 2: impressive drivers over the totality of their career. You know,
Speaker 2: they hit it extraordinarily long distances, but they're very, very
Speaker 2: accurate for their length. That's what makes these unicorns of
Speaker 2: driving the golf ball. But the cool thing about this
Speaker 2: venue is you get such a wide range of winners
Speaker 2: because that accuracy is really important. So a shorter hitter
Speaker 2: like we saw chees Reeve in a long playoff with
Speaker 2: Gary Woodland, you get that contrast of playing style. Obviously
Speaker 2: Woodland very long rev short Web Simpson in a playoff
Speaker 2: with Tony Fenw you get that long short right, it's
Speaker 2: uh and that and that, I think is what makes
Speaker 2: this venue extra, you know cool like on the periphery.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have like that glitzy stuff the like the Bunkers,
Speaker 2: the aesthetic. The Front nine is about as forgettable as
Speaker 2: you can get on the PGA Tour, but it does
Speaker 2: it provides a wide variety of play, which which I
Speaker 2: think is you know, the biggest recipe for success on
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour is venues that don't just emphasize a
Speaker 2: singular skill and you know, almost pre require a singular
Speaker 2: skill like a Tory Pines.
Speaker 1: And I think part of the reason for that at
Speaker 1: Waste Management is that you have room to play off
Speaker 1: the tee, but you have a lot of tricky tea
Speaker 1: shots where you have to decide, Okay, am I going
Speaker 1: to hit it three twenty five here? If I'm a
Speaker 1: PGA too or player, right, that's the reality that they're
Speaker 1: dealing with. Now, am I going to hit it three
Speaker 1: fifty or should I throttle back a little bit hit
Speaker 1: at two eighty. There are options like that on a
Speaker 1: lot of the holes, and there's usually quite a bit
Speaker 1: of risk in going with the long option. There's water
Speaker 1: or there's desert, right, and so there's there's a real
Speaker 1: calculation to be done off the tee, and as a result,
Speaker 1: sometimes big long hitters who don't quite have it under
Speaker 1: control get punished at the Phoenix Open, whereas accurate hitters
Speaker 1: kind of are able to position themselves well and they
Speaker 1: do well.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things is that the in
Speaker 2: Joseph Lamanna, who obviously is on this podcast fairly regularly,
Speaker 2: he wrote in his newsletter about Tory, is that the
Speaker 2: the really wide miss at Scottsdale is penalized heavily with
Speaker 2: the desert.
Speaker 1: Absolutely yes, and water in a lot of cases.
Speaker 2: The smaller miss, you know, missing the fairway five yards
Speaker 2: is not heavily penalized, right, So the big miss is
Speaker 2: what is what really gets you at at Scottsdale, and
Speaker 2: obviously those that's what big hitters do, right, But there
Speaker 2: is a huge advantage. There are bunkers that big hitters
Speaker 2: can carry. So it's if that big hitter has the
Speaker 2: driver going, they have a huge advantage, which is the
Speaker 2: way it should be.
Speaker 1: M hmm. Absolutely. So, you know, in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Open represents what a designated event should be. Right.
Speaker 1: There's a good golf course here with real strategic options,
Speaker 1: and that allows many different types of players to thrive,
Speaker 1: and so you get interesting competition year after year. You
Speaker 1: have a rate local culture, you have a committed sponsor,
Speaker 1: and you just have a unique product. Right, this is
Speaker 1: what a designated event should look like. This is a
Speaker 1: true elevated PGA Tour event. And you know, I think
Speaker 1: that that's part of what is exciting about the Designated
Speaker 1: Event series. If we want to get into some of
Speaker 1: the positives here, what does this new program bring to
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. I think it, you know, identifies what
Speaker 1: those special events are and it confirms that in the
Speaker 1: eyes of the fans, in the eyes of the tour,
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the players, so that we really
Speaker 1: know this is a week to get excited. This is
Speaker 1: a week to see the best players face off against
Speaker 1: each other at a good venue, in a good atmosphere.
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm so pumped up about this event.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just because the Super Bowls in
Speaker 1: town that that adds a little something to it. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm genuinely excited about the Phoenix Open in a way
Speaker 1: that I haven't been before for this event. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: usually pretty excited about it, but not to this degree.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's one big, big positive for
Speaker 1: designated events. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that the biggest positive for designated event
Speaker 2: centers around expectations with the fans. All Right, we know,
Speaker 2: unless you follow the tour with a very very fine
Speaker 2: tooth comb, you aren't going to know weekend week out,
Speaker 2: like who exactly is at the event. With these designated tags,
Speaker 2: it emphasizes two fans that these are the events that
Speaker 2: you have to watch these, These are the ones that
Speaker 2: you can plan for that on hey, on on Thursday,
Speaker 2: you're making plans for the weekend. You know, hey, I
Speaker 2: kind of want to watch this event. Right. It's like
Speaker 2: when you when your favorite team the schedule comes out, right,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a sports fan, if you're a
Speaker 2: golf fan, when the schedule comes out, you can circle, hey,
Speaker 2: these are the events that I want to plan my
Speaker 2: weekends around if I'm interested in watching live golf on TV.
Speaker 2: And I think that's really important versus the old kind
Speaker 2: of like you knew certain events were big, but like
Speaker 2: you know, the regular the run of the mill PGA
Speaker 2: Tour event not really knowing who's going to be there
Speaker 2: when you turn the TV on. So I think the
Speaker 2: biggest thing is that it gives the tour a it.
Speaker 2: It gives fans a real expectation. They understand when they
Speaker 2: turn on the TV that all the big players are
Speaker 2: going to be there. And for the most part, the
Speaker 2: only times that that was the case in the last
Speaker 2: twenty five years or whatever it may be, when really,
Speaker 2: since you know, the tour expanded added events and players
Speaker 2: started to contract their schedule, which started with Tiger, it
Speaker 2: created this wide golf of there are way more events
Speaker 2: than players are playing way less. So since that occurrence,
Speaker 2: you know, when guys used to play thirty when big
Speaker 2: players used to play thirty events a year and there
Speaker 2: were thirty five forty events, you knew big guys were
Speaker 2: in every field. But now it's like, big guys play
Speaker 2: twenty events, twenty five events and there's forty five events.
Speaker 2: You know, that gap got bigger. So that's the biggest
Speaker 2: thing is that as fans, you know what to expect
Speaker 2: with designated events, the best players all at the same spot.
Speaker 2: And that's really big because it creates you know, and
Speaker 2: effectively it creates, like you know, for the tour twelve
Speaker 2: other players Championships, which is their most competitive event. And
Speaker 2: I would argue, like the thing we talked about this
Speaker 2: a little bit of the waste management, like it's up
Speaker 2: in the air whether like who's going to be designated
Speaker 2: next year and it's on the sponsor to pay up?
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, right, because the PGA Tour just sort of
Speaker 1: chose chose the events this year said you're designated. But
Speaker 1: next year it's going to be different in the sense
Speaker 1: that sponsors will be asked to essentially it'll go to
Speaker 1: the highest bidder.
Speaker 2: Yes, So you know these these sponsors are going to
Speaker 2: have to pay up for designated events, and you know,
Speaker 2: waste Management didn't have to this year. The big question
Speaker 2: is who's going to pay up for those events? You
Speaker 2: know what what events are going to I think it's
Speaker 2: really important that waste Management is one of those events
Speaker 2: because it falls on Super Bowl Sunday. You have a
Speaker 2: captive audience of people that are watching TV that day,
Speaker 2: that have Sunday set aside as a day that I'm
Speaker 2: going to be watching sports. And I think the way
Speaker 2: that this event has infiltrated the greater sports world. It's
Speaker 2: really important that this one is a elevated event. And
Speaker 2: the question is is the sponsor going to want to
Speaker 2: pay for that? And that's you know, that's a tricky thing.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the compelling things about these
Speaker 2: designated events going forward is what are they going to
Speaker 2: be going forward? How people are going to qualify and
Speaker 2: and so forth. But you know, it's important these designated events,
Speaker 2: as we've seen with like the diminishment of other events,
Speaker 2: that the schedule cadence works. You know, like what if
Speaker 2: four sponsors all want to pay up in their four
Speaker 2: events in a row, you know, leading into a big tournament,
Speaker 2: you know what happens there? You know, So this is
Speaker 2: it's a super fascinating aspect and I think you know,
Speaker 2: there's they obviously are trying to figure out how to
Speaker 2: flip the twenty million dollar per spill. And that's that's
Speaker 2: why they need these sponsors to pay up, because in
Speaker 2: an ideal world, you would almost hand pick these events
Speaker 2: and structure your schedule around it so that you don't
Speaker 2: you can ensure good fields across the board.
Speaker 1: Well you need to for the sake of the players partly, right,
Speaker 1: because if you have four designated events in a row,
Speaker 1: and the players need to go the top players need
Speaker 1: to go to all of them, Then what are you
Speaker 1: gonna do? You know that that creates a really tricky situation,
Speaker 1: And it's an example of all the different constituencies that
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour needs to serve here, the sponsors, the
Speaker 1: tournament organizers, the players. You know, they are really caught
Speaker 1: between here. I mean the fans are also part of this,
Speaker 1: but will usually last not a good fan situation.
Speaker 2: If you have four four of these really big events,
Speaker 2: it starts to wear thin. Yeah, they become less important
Speaker 2: the more you have of them. The scarcity of these
Speaker 2: is actually super valuable to the tour.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I would say also, and this might be
Speaker 1: just sort of a niche golf media take and call
Speaker 1: me out if that is the case, but personally designated events.
Speaker 1: Having designated events helps me enjoy the lesser events the
Speaker 1: non designated more. It helps me receive those in the
Speaker 1: way that I think they should be received, which is,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't expect this to be a big time event.
Speaker 1: I should feel that there's something lacking. If there is
Speaker 1: a quote unquote weak field here, I should understand it
Speaker 1: as an event that's an opportunity for players to get
Speaker 1: to the next level, And I'm watching this event in
Speaker 1: order to kind of scalp those players in order to
Speaker 1: see who's next, who's going to be next on the
Speaker 1: designated stage, who are going to be the players who
Speaker 1: are really up and coming, who are some of the
Speaker 1: veterans who are having a revival. Those are the story
Speaker 1: lines that I'm going to start to attend to with
Speaker 1: the non designated events in a different way, because I
Speaker 1: know what they are. I know that they're not supposed
Speaker 1: to be big events, and I'm not disappointed if they
Speaker 1: don't turn out to feel like big events. I can
Speaker 1: just sort of understand them in that way. Do you
Speaker 1: think that's a take that the normal fan would have
Speaker 1: or is that just me as somebody who watches golf
Speaker 1: every week covers golf is saying.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that the tour had
Speaker 2: suffered from really the last thirty years is an identity
Speaker 2: crisis with the events. So, you know, what's what every
Speaker 2: you know, the idea was that every event is the same.
Speaker 2: That's what the goal of the tour was was the
Speaker 2: homogenize the events. Every sponsor pays the same amount of money.
Speaker 2: You're getting the great greatest players in the world because
Speaker 2: we're the greatest tour in the world. But the reality
Speaker 2: was they weren't, and it created I think where it
Speaker 2: clarifies it and makes it a little bit easier is
Speaker 2: the way fans experienced the golf is through the broadcast.
Speaker 2: And if you feel that way, I guarantee the broadcasters
Speaker 2: feel that way. Tommy Roy feels that way, Seller Shy
Speaker 2: feels that way, and they are able to craft their
Speaker 2: broadcasts around these very concrete identities. It creates identities with
Speaker 2: events on tour, and I think that's super important, and
Speaker 2: I think that creates a more coherent storytelling throughout the year.
Speaker 2: I think one of the fascinating things, honestly with smaller
Speaker 2: events is when you have fields that are weak, like
Speaker 2: the American Express this year, right, the ability for John
Speaker 2: Rahm to go out and win that is a bonafide
Speaker 2: great player, Like great players go to small events when
Speaker 2: they're expected to win and win. You know, that is
Speaker 2: a quality that we see with great players. And I
Speaker 2: think that along with giving younger players the opportunity to
Speaker 2: take down great players, because there are almost always going
Speaker 2: to be because of the way the sponsorships work. And
Speaker 2: one of the things that the tour is pushed with sponsorships.
Speaker 2: If you sponsor an event, you need to spend a
Speaker 2: considerable amount sponsoring a players also. So that's one of
Speaker 2: the things that the tour is doing in response to live,
Speaker 2: to attempt to leverage, you know, to make up that
Speaker 2: wage gap. Really, like when you talk about the money
Speaker 2: gap that lives offering, one of them is, hey, we're
Speaker 2: gonna lean on these sponsors of tour events who also
Speaker 2: sponsor players. So when a tour event sponsor, when of
Speaker 2: a sponsor sponsors a tour event, usually what that also
Speaker 2: yields is those players they're sponsoring show up. You saw
Speaker 2: it last week with Pebble Jordan Spiece playing. Another sponsor
Speaker 2: of that event in Cisco. Victor Hovlin is a Cisco player,
Speaker 2: you know, Keith Mitchell is a Cisco player, Brendan Todd
Speaker 2: is a Cisco player. They were all on the leader board, right.
Speaker 2: Maverick McNeely is a Cisco and AT and T player.
Speaker 2: He was at the event. So you start to see,
Speaker 2: like with that caveat and the way the tour is
Speaker 2: pushing these sponsors to do to spend with players. That
Speaker 2: is going to ensure that some of these smaller events
Speaker 2: have top flight players because of the players that they sponsor.
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Speaker 1: you for sponsoring this episode. Why don't we get back
Speaker 1: into designated events? Not sure where you want to take
Speaker 1: it from here. You know, one thought I had when
Speaker 1: you were talking, you know, about the relationships between different
Speaker 1: kinds of events, right between the non designated and designated events,
Speaker 1: is that having some of this clarity is going to
Speaker 1: help things like a documentary about a PGA tour season, right,
Speaker 1: Because I've been thinking about this recently with with Full
Speaker 1: Swing coming out and we have it. We have a
Speaker 1: whole separate podcast feed Full Swing Thoughts with you Brendan
Speaker 1: and Joseph Lamania talking about each episode of the series
Speaker 1: that's going to be coming out next week. When the
Speaker 1: Netflix documentary.
Speaker 2: Is Describe Double ad Here Go Subscribe, I think, you know,
Speaker 2: to be honest, like, I think the episodes, having recorded
Speaker 2: them would be compelling whether or not you watch the
Speaker 2: show they are. You know, each of these episodes really
Speaker 2: focuses on players, and these podcasts are going to be
Speaker 2: really deep dive discussions on those on those subjects perfect.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's going to be really fun to talk
Speaker 1: about the Netflix series as it is. But I think
Speaker 1: that the documentary makers would have had a lot easier
Speaker 1: of a time. First of all, if liv hadn't hadn't
Speaker 1: happened this past season, because that that was probably a
Speaker 1: tricky thing for them to deal with. But also if
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour season itself just had a little bit
Speaker 1: more structure, because one of the things that Drive to
Speaker 1: Survive really benefited from is the extreme structure of the
Speaker 1: F one season, where every driver shows up every week,
Speaker 1: every team is always there, everybody cares about the season
Speaker 1: long championship, In fact, cares so much about the season
Speaker 1: long championship that they care about whether they get fourth
Speaker 1: or fifth, not just first, right, and that structure gives
Speaker 1: the documentary series something to hang on to. Right, Those
Speaker 1: are the dramatic stakes of the season, and right now,
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour season doesn't really have coherent dramatic stakes
Speaker 1: that you can follow from beginning to end, partly because
Speaker 1: nobody cares about the FedEx Cup, but also partly because
Speaker 1: the schedule doesn't differentiate between events, doesn't clarify which events
Speaker 1: are the big ones, and as a result, events very
Speaker 1: rarely have all the best players at them, So you
Speaker 1: don't have players going head to head. You don't have
Speaker 1: Rory and Ram going ahead to head. I mean, Rory
Speaker 1: and Ram have not appeared in the same event yet
Speaker 1: this year, but they're going to in Scottsdale. And that's
Speaker 1: really helpful for understanding the PGA Tour season as a story. Now,
Speaker 1: that's not to say that Full Swing won't be really good,
Speaker 1: but it focuses on players, right, Each episode focuses on
Speaker 1: a player. It's not a documentary really about the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour season as a season in the way that the
Speaker 1: Drive to Survive episodes are those episodes are about that
Speaker 1: season of F one And maybe this new structure for
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour season will allow people like us, people
Speaker 1: like Netflix, you know, or just normal fans to understand
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour season in terms of storytelling. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's going to be really helpful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's why it's so fascinating to
Speaker 2: see how this shakes out in twenty twenty four. I
Speaker 2: think that when you think about if you do the
Speaker 2: backwards math here, there's seventeen of these designated events there
Speaker 2: are you know, from what the players have really harped on,
Speaker 2: they want the season to be done in August when
Speaker 2: the fed Ex Cup is done. That's what they want,
Speaker 2: and that's I think believe the plan is. So you've
Speaker 2: got eight months of golf and you've got seventeen designated events,
Speaker 2: three of which are the FedEx Cup playoffs, which will
Speaker 2: be August. So you're down to fourteen events in seven months.
Speaker 2: So really it shakes out you need to have two
Speaker 2: of these a month, you really want. What they need
Speaker 2: to avoid is this run that they have coming up
Speaker 2: right here where there's four events in five weeks, four
Speaker 2: elevated events in five weeks. That doesn't. What it does
Speaker 2: is it kills the other events around it, and it
Speaker 2: creates a situation where players have to play a great
Speaker 2: deal of golf that might not be on their terms.
Speaker 2: So with that in mind, when you start to lay
Speaker 2: out the schedule, that's how you need to think, right
Speaker 2: And obviously this is the clash. Here is the sponsorship
Speaker 2: and who's paying up, and this is not They are
Speaker 2: not going about this in a process that would be ideal,
Speaker 2: you know, ideally they would just create the event and
Speaker 2: then let the schedule fall from there, you know, and
Speaker 2: that's not going to be the case. So thinking about
Speaker 2: that through, like, what's vitally important for the PGA Tour
Speaker 2: is to you know, is to structure this properly so
Speaker 2: that the players are really happy. Because some players, like
Speaker 2: I think this is one of the big drawbacks and
Speaker 2: something they can hit on with live. Some players like
Speaker 2: to play before majors. Other players don't. There should never
Speaker 2: be an elevated event the week before, you know, and
Speaker 2: there shouldn't be a run of elevated events leading into
Speaker 2: the week before because every you know, every major, the
Speaker 2: players should get who really like the we're talking about
Speaker 2: the top players they should get to want to prepare
Speaker 2: the way they want to for these big tournaments. That's
Speaker 2: what matters the most to them. Like, you know, this
Speaker 2: is obviously the long term battle with Live. Like it's
Speaker 2: not over. It is going to be a long term
Speaker 2: battle unless something monumental happens with Live that they just
Speaker 2: fall apart completely. I wouldn't bet on that. They've already
Speaker 2: invested a lot of money. I don't see them quitting
Speaker 2: anytime soon. So if you're talking about your long term
Speaker 2: battle with Live, this is such a very important aspect
Speaker 2: of it is how these elevated events work, How the schedule,
Speaker 2: you know, really caters to the way a player wants
Speaker 2: to prepare for these major championships, because you know, you
Speaker 2: hear like you've heard. I think one of the things
Speaker 2: I've listened to a couple of the recent nollying up
Speaker 2: podcasts they've had John Rahm Will's l Tourus. The thing
Speaker 2: I've been fascinating about hearing these players talk about, you
Speaker 2: know things, Wills l Tourus obviously a PGA tour loyalist.
Speaker 2: He talked about, I'm not going to to do anything
Speaker 2: that takes away my opportunity to play in major championships. Right,
Speaker 2: that is a big carrot that the PGA Tour has
Speaker 2: managed to hold on to who knows how long. But
Speaker 2: you also should with that in mind, not only playing,
Speaker 2: but preparing exactly the way I want to prepare for
Speaker 2: a major championship. And that's where Live has some really
Speaker 2: wacky things like one one major they're playing the week
Speaker 2: before another major they aren't playing the week before. Where
Speaker 2: if I'm you know, Phil is obviously one of their
Speaker 2: big players who's had you know, he is historically in
Speaker 2: his career like to play the week before. So all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, he's in his fifties, he's got only
Speaker 2: a few major championship. I'm not counting him out after
Speaker 2: that PGA when you know it's as crazy as that was.
Speaker 2: He's not like a real threat, but you know he
Speaker 2: went out one one in the last two years, and
Speaker 2: so you have to But if I'm Phil and I
Speaker 2: only have a few bullets left in majors, like what
Speaker 2: if I can't prepare exactly the way I want to prepare?
Speaker 2: Like and this goes for other players, right, you know
Speaker 2: it is it is vitally important to create a schedule
Speaker 2: that's player friendly, that makes sense, and that's the hard
Speaker 2: thing for the tour is going to be doing that
Speaker 2: where you know it's up to the sponsor to pay
Speaker 2: up for this.
Speaker 1: So does that mean that they really shouldn't rotate designated
Speaker 1: events because that would just create a new kind of
Speaker 1: chaos every season, right? I mean, how can that be
Speaker 1: avoided if they're really planning to rotate designated events because
Speaker 1: it's just going to change every year.
Speaker 2: You can rotate a dates, right, so you can move
Speaker 2: event dates around if you want to rotate. So maybe
Speaker 2: it's the set date is this is an elevated week
Speaker 2: and an event slides in and out. I think that
Speaker 2: one of the things that they it's ironic, right, Like
Speaker 2: with the LPGA, they have done a horrible job with
Speaker 2: setting up convenient travel for their players. That matters because
Speaker 2: if you're a bottom tier LPGA player, you're not making
Speaker 2: enough money in order to have this crazy travel schedule.
Speaker 2: It will with the PGA Tour that shouldn't be a
Speaker 2: concern and that might end up Like a good example
Speaker 2: is this Pebble Beach event. Pebble Beach is in its
Speaker 2: current construct where it is in the schedule is because
Speaker 2: of the history of the West Coast Swing, you can drive.
Speaker 2: Like we had a podcasts with Zach Blair a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago. He talked about how he's driving the
Speaker 2: entire West Coast Swing. That's super convenient, super cool, But
Speaker 2: like that's not something that you have to keep in mind.
Speaker 2: Like it's important probably for caddies of lower tier players,
Speaker 2: but maybe you could make a tweak that makes life
Speaker 2: a little bit easier for caddies, you know, maybe there's
Speaker 2: a travel stipend or something. But the idea like the
Speaker 2: AT and T Pebble Beach pro Am, to me, feels
Speaker 2: like an event that's a that's a sponsor that sponsors
Speaker 2: two events. You've got the super to this. You know,
Speaker 2: we talk about what makes waste management. It's it's kind
Speaker 2: of like transcended just the golf crowd and gotten into
Speaker 2: the greater sports crowd thanks to its atmosphere. At State
Speaker 2: Pebble Beach Pro Am is one of those events that
Speaker 2: has the ability to transcend the golf crowd. So to me,
Speaker 2: that makes sense for an elevated event. Now, like what
Speaker 2: goes against it is the pro am aspect of it.
Speaker 2: But it's Pebble freaking Beach, Like you want to see
Speaker 2: this is one of the best courses in the world.
Speaker 2: You want to see the best players in the world
Speaker 2: playing at Pebble Beach year in, year out, and it's
Speaker 2: an opportunity to draw in a bigger bucket of fans.
Speaker 2: So does that event make sense on the West Coast
Speaker 2: swing in this current date? The weather's not great. It's
Speaker 2: right around Riviera, it's right around Waste Management, it's close
Speaker 2: to Century, it's close to Torry Pines. These are all
Speaker 2: events that I feel like could have a pretty good
Speaker 2: claim at a designated tag. So maybe we look at
Speaker 2: it and say, hey, let's move Pebble back. What does
Speaker 2: Pebble look like in June or July or maybe even
Speaker 2: later in the year. You know what is has a
Speaker 2: playoff as a playoff event, how about Pebble Beach is
Speaker 2: a playoff event? Now that would run counter with the
Speaker 2: pro am, which is not something they're gonna budge on.
Speaker 2: So maybe we look at a March date or an
Speaker 2: April date. All you're only getting better and better weather
Speaker 2: on the Monterey Peninsula as you move away from February,
Speaker 2: and travel shouldn't be a concern as you're going to
Speaker 2: see with the Netflix show, all the top guys fly private,
Speaker 2: like we should not be like traveling.
Speaker 1: Designated events specifically, the travel is not a huge part
Speaker 1: of the equation.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, so thinking about it that way, right, like
Speaker 2: what are your strongest events. The other thing that the
Speaker 2: West Coast events really create a great appeal about is
Speaker 2: there time that they are telecasted. You know, it is
Speaker 2: super advantageous to get later in that coverage window because
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, your demo which is like middle
Speaker 2: aged people golf, Like, I know they want to be younger,
Speaker 2: but the demo is middle aged people. You know, what
Speaker 2: gets easier and easier the later and later things are
Speaker 2: on is for people to watch golf on the weekend
Speaker 2: because they have less and less child activities. You know,
Speaker 2: like the majority of golf fans either have children or
Speaker 2: are like past the age of children, make it easier
Speaker 2: for them to watch have it on later, you know,
Speaker 2: West Coast events Like I don't know, I think that
Speaker 2: Florida portion should maybe go a little bit earlier into
Speaker 2: this end of the year because in the winter people
Speaker 2: are more at home, and that West Coast swing should
Speaker 2: push later so you can take advantage of later telecast times.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I mean, you know, there's gonna be some
Speaker 1: musical chairs with these events, moving them around, finding new places,
Speaker 1: and we'll probably see some of that in the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four season. You know, there was a quote in
Speaker 1: the Joel Beal article about the Pebble Beach pro Am,
Speaker 1: which everybody should read and Golf Digest it was excellent
Speaker 1: that the thing about the twenty twenty three season is
Speaker 1: that it gets us to twenty twenty four. So the players,
Speaker 1: PGA Tour executives, sponsors are all expecting things to change
Speaker 1: next season, and maybe some of this shifting around of
Speaker 1: events in the schedule can be a feature of next season,
Speaker 1: or as you're mentioning, it could potentially be just a
Speaker 1: reality of the PGA Tour schedule going forward, because you know,
Speaker 1: if you want to find specific weeks for designated events,
Speaker 1: but you also want to rotate sponsors in and out
Speaker 1: of designation, then you're really going to have to move
Speaker 1: things around on a year to year basis, which would
Speaker 1: be enormously complicated, I'm sure, but it would also solve
Speaker 1: some of the potential problems with the cadence of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour schedule that you've outlined here. So I think
Speaker 1: we've talked about that well enough people have an idea
Speaker 1: of what the large a scheduling ramifications of designated events
Speaker 1: could be. Basically, it's going to introduce some chaos, some uncertainty,
Speaker 1: and some difficulty into the schedule for PGA Tour executives
Speaker 1: especially and potentially for players. You have one more point.
Speaker 2: One more thing on that is if you listen to
Speaker 2: no laying up interview with John Rahm, obviously a very
Speaker 2: influential player, he really talked about the his his him
Speaker 2: pushing for more international elevated events, so that would also
Speaker 2: throw just another wrinkle and you know difficult. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the top thing about these events. He was
Speaker 2: talking about how he really wants an elevated event in Spain, right,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Are you going to do that just for John ram?
Speaker 1: I mean maybe he might be important enough.
Speaker 2: And so you're talking about like can you you know,
Speaker 2: if you think about it, like the balance of Hey,
Speaker 2: these a lot of our top flight international players probably
Speaker 2: would like to see three or four events played internationally,
Speaker 2: and how do you do that within the construct of
Speaker 2: like when you take out the majors and the players,
Speaker 2: you're down to twelve and then how do you fit
Speaker 2: it into the fields? Right? So that's just another it's
Speaker 2: going this is I'm not envious of the tour here
Speaker 2: with the situation, it's it's going to be extraordinarily challenging.
Speaker 2: And it does, like to my earlier point, like if
Speaker 2: this is not the ideal construct with the with the sponsors,
Speaker 2: it adds like a whole new layer of of having
Speaker 2: of hoops and hurdles to jump through. The ideal situation
Speaker 2: would honestly be if you just started from scratch brand
Speaker 2: new events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of sponsors are
Speaker 1: going to be unhappy, uncomfortable, not only sponsors of non
Speaker 1: designated events who don't want to pay up, but even
Speaker 1: sponsors of designated events who maybe feel like they're paying
Speaker 1: too much or feel like they don't want their event
Speaker 1: to be designated in style. And that sort of opens
Speaker 1: up the other question, the other big question I have
Speaker 1: about designated events, which is format, field size, qualification, criteria,
Speaker 1: Monday qualification. What do these events look like? What can
Speaker 1: these events look like? What should they look like? Should
Speaker 1: there be cuts? So you know, maybe we just start
Speaker 1: with the field size question. What do you think would
Speaker 1: be the ideal field size for a designated event, because
Speaker 1: it's certainly not going to be one hundred and.
Speaker 2: Forty, right, yeah, I think in that like one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty as we've seen with the world ranking formula,
Speaker 2: you know, I think there needs to be a critical
Speaker 2: amount of players. But what I don't like I do
Speaker 2: not like the idea of the top one twenty five
Speaker 2: in the FedEx Cup allowing you a I don't think
Speaker 2: finishing one twenty in the FedEx Cup should grant you
Speaker 2: a spot in every elevated event.
Speaker 1: It's not a designated style of compress.
Speaker 2: If you look at what a resume of a player
Speaker 2: that's from one hundred to one hundred and twenty five,
Speaker 2: I don't think they are people that should like. I
Speaker 2: don't think that should qualify being a admittance into the
Speaker 2: great events of golf. I think, you know, when you
Speaker 2: look at when you start to get to about seventy
Speaker 2: in the FedEx Cup, you start to look at players
Speaker 2: like season and you say, you know what, they had
Speaker 2: a good season. When you get to the top forty,
Speaker 2: you start to look at it and you think about
Speaker 2: some guys that had narrow misses, Like you have a
Speaker 2: guy like Denny McCarthy who narrowly missed making it to
Speaker 2: Eastlake last year. You look at his year and you're like,
Speaker 2: you know, he was a good, good PGA Tour player
Speaker 2: for years before this, and this was a great year
Speaker 2: for him. So you start to think, like, I think
Speaker 2: the right numbers is fifty, but you need to get
Speaker 2: You probably want to get to about one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty one hundred person fee at the minimum, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. But you know, you've just gone
Speaker 1: through a logic of why when you start to admit
Speaker 1: players who are more in that one hundred to one
Speaker 1: twenty range, you begin to dilute the strength or the
Speaker 1: not the strength of the field in an owgr sense,
Speaker 1: but the eliteness of the field. When you begin to
Speaker 1: let in that many players, you have to start going
Speaker 1: to players who I don't know. You kind of look
Speaker 1: at their resumes and you're like, well, should they be
Speaker 1: playing in this designated event? Should they have a shot
Speaker 1: to win this? Because anything can happen on any given
Speaker 1: week in golf. That's one of the problems with the
Speaker 1: entertainment product is that it's such a high variance sport
Speaker 1: that there's no guarantee that it's going to come down
Speaker 1: to John Rahm and Roy McElroy in the end. So
Speaker 1: the more players you have an event in an event,
Speaker 1: the more chances you have that you get a finish
Speaker 1: that just doesn't feel like a designated event finish because
Speaker 1: you have numbers one hundred and seven and one twenty
Speaker 1: one in the FedEx Cup going head to head down
Speaker 1: the stretch. I mean, So that's the issue, I think.
Speaker 1: And also the issue is that the top top players,
Speaker 1: the ones who are trying to be who are trying
Speaker 1: to pacify here that the PGA Tour is trying to
Speaker 1: keep in the fold, the top players want these fields
Speaker 1: to be probably as small as possible, right, and so
Speaker 1: they're pushing for probably like sixty seventy like WGC style.
Speaker 1: And so how do you you know, is one twenty
Speaker 1: the compromise or does it need to be lower than that.
Speaker 2: I feel like one hundred when I think about it,
Speaker 2: is the number I like. I like one hundred with
Speaker 2: a cut to the top sixty. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't think it makes any sense to have people hanging
Speaker 2: around that are you know, the spread is so amusing
Speaker 2: when you have the note cut events and you see
Speaker 2: the highest the highest score to the lowest score. It's
Speaker 2: always it's an amusing thing. But I don't think that
Speaker 2: I think that should go. Now, Like, what if we say,
Speaker 2: if we're going to do one hundred, what if we
Speaker 2: have sixty exempt spots for the top six players on
Speaker 2: the PGA Tour. I think another exemption should go to
Speaker 2: the Corn Faery Tour Player of the year, so you
Speaker 2: have sixty one exemptions. From there, you start to build
Speaker 2: out qualifications that are based on the current year. So
Speaker 2: I think maybe there are ten spots that go to
Speaker 2: the top ten in the FedEx Cup. And obviously with
Speaker 2: all of this, I mean a whole nother pod is
Speaker 2: FedEx Cup reform. What should a designated event get versus
Speaker 2: a non designated event and FedEx Cup points and it
Speaker 2: should not be very close. Right now, it's fifty points different,
Speaker 2: which is laughable.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's going to change. I mean, I
Speaker 1: love that right, like it really does have to change.
Speaker 1: That's like a big thing. But man, you know, it
Speaker 1: just seems like that's going to be so hard to
Speaker 1: change because the motivation to make all these events to
Speaker 1: fool people, not only sponsors but fans into thinking that
Speaker 1: all the events are more or less the same kind
Speaker 1: of significance. The impulse toward that is so strong. But
Speaker 1: we'll see, we'll see, But I agree that that needs
Speaker 1: to happen.
Speaker 2: So we're at seventy one spots with the top ten
Speaker 2: of the existing year's FedEx Cup all right from there,
Speaker 2: like so we have twenty nine more spots. One idea
Speaker 2: I think is getting informed players into the event. Really
Speaker 2: obviously you're accomplishing that with the FedEx Cup exemption. But
Speaker 2: also I think one of the really I think great
Speaker 2: aspects of golf. One of the things I really enjoy
Speaker 2: is that Open qualifying series leading into the Open Championship,
Speaker 2: where an event has you know, this guy's gonna win,
Speaker 2: But there's also that caret of you know, the top
Speaker 2: three guys that aren't exempt into the Open in this
Speaker 2: event are getting in something similar. Maybe it's the top
Speaker 2: five guys not otherwise exempt are getting a spot in
Speaker 2: this designated event. Let this could be a life changing
Speaker 2: opportunity for somebody. You know, if you go last week
Speaker 2: that wouldn't be exempt to get in. You know that
Speaker 2: Brent Grant for example, a rookie who's playing the week
Speaker 2: of He's playing the week of his life at Pebble
Speaker 2: and he and he's going into the final round with
Speaker 2: a real chance to play his way into a designated
Speaker 2: event in the near future while he's in form. That's
Speaker 2: the important thing is golf is fickle. Players come in
Speaker 2: and out of form. How do we get the most
Speaker 2: informed guys into this event. So there's let's just say
Speaker 2: that there's ten spots that are given out in that
Speaker 2: space of time between designated events to inform players. Now
Speaker 2: we're at eighty one spots of one hundred, all right.
Speaker 2: I think a Monday qualifier would be extraordinary when you
Speaker 2: limit the field to the top the only exempt players
Speaker 2: are the top sixty and last year's FedEx Cup, you know,
Speaker 2: and then like players that are really informed. Like an
Speaker 2: example of a player really informed that probably would get
Speaker 2: in that played a Monday qualifier for the Waste Management,
Speaker 2: Ben Griffin, a rookie who is I think he was
Speaker 2: top thirty in FedEx Cup points going into the Waste Management,
Speaker 2: has had a great, great start to his professional career.
Speaker 2: Like Taylor Montgomery, would be another example of a guy
Speaker 2: that would be automatically in this in this thing. But
Speaker 2: then you have this, like you have guys that are
Speaker 2: legitimate tour pros that are playing a Monday Qualifier, and
Speaker 2: maybe you make it thirty six holes. You make the
Speaker 2: Monday Qualifier only available to corn Faery Tour players or
Speaker 2: PGA Tour players, and if there's an excess, you have
Speaker 2: a you know, a pre qualifier. Right. Don't schedule corn
Speaker 2: Faery events opposite these events. Make this the you know,
Speaker 2: like the players the only event that matters this week.
Speaker 2: Don't have opposite events. Have this this Monday Qualifier be
Speaker 2: really something. And guess what, It's another television product that
Speaker 2: you could sell. It could be part of your rights package.
Speaker 2: Is a Monday qualifier. Who doesn't want to come off
Speaker 2: a weekend of golf with like, hey, there's another event
Speaker 2: on Monday. It's enjoyable to have it on in the background.
Speaker 2: Golf is one of the few sports that you can
Speaker 2: kind of keep a passing interest of it, you know,
Speaker 2: depending on what your occupation is in the background. People
Speaker 2: do it every year with the Masters, Right, So Monday
Speaker 2: qualify are four spots that it has more of like
Speaker 2: a US Open, like one of the most fascinating aspects
Speaker 2: of the US Open is final qualifying. This would have
Speaker 2: this would give this thing a final qualifying feel. So
Speaker 2: have ten spots through that. So now we're up to
Speaker 2: ninety one, right, if my mask's right?
Speaker 1: Are we doing sponsor exemptions?
Speaker 2: I this is a tricky question. I think it should
Speaker 2: be spot There should be a few sponsors exemptions, but
Speaker 2: it should be limited to the one whatever your one
Speaker 2: twenty five PGA Tour player.
Speaker 1: Okay, that way, So there needs to be restrictions. Are
Speaker 1: sponsor is going to be happy about that? Because we're
Speaker 1: already worried about sponsors being unhappy with the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: Listen, the the job of the PGA Tour here. An
Speaker 2: unhappy sponsor is one thing. This is their response to
Speaker 2: an existential threat. That has to be priority number one
Speaker 2: with every decision that they make. It cannot be Is
Speaker 2: the sponsor going to be happy? Obviously if the sponsor's
Speaker 2: mass exodus. But there's a balancing act. We're delivering you
Speaker 2: the best players in the world. Your sponsor exemption, it
Speaker 2: just doesn't matter in comparison to us delivering you Rory
Speaker 2: ram Speith, you know, justin Thomas to your event. That
Speaker 2: that is the thing, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are giving you a semi major has to
Speaker 1: be the message, right, Yes, you're paying more. Yes, there
Speaker 1: might be some differences in how the event feels on site,
Speaker 1: what concessions are doing, and sponsor exemption exemptions will be different.
Speaker 1: But you're getting like a really really premium product here
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are going to care about
Speaker 1: and be excited about. I guess that that really does
Speaker 1: have to be the message. But but I love that
Speaker 1: what you just laid out there sounds really exciting. And
Speaker 1: there's a mix.
Speaker 2: Of I've got a few more spots.
Speaker 1: You've got a few more spots. You didn't fill up
Speaker 1: the sponsor exemptions.
Speaker 2: Now you've got some sponsor exemption.
Speaker 1: One sponsor exemption.
Speaker 2: One sponsor exemption ninety.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't think that's realistic, but whatever, We'll got.
Speaker 2: Word to ninety two. And now I'm pulling from two
Speaker 2: other places. Okay, European Tour, Yeah, DP World Tour six spots,
Speaker 2: and then the top two players on the Corn Faery
Speaker 2: Tour are in. Oh, you don't have an opposite corn
Speaker 2: faery event. You're giving people legitimate like you're investing in
Speaker 2: your corn fairy tour. By having these spots, you're building exposure.
Speaker 2: What if, you know, what if Pearson Couty is in
Speaker 2: the mix. And I don't think anyone would disagree that
Speaker 2: Pearson Couty could play in this event and can.
Speaker 1: I was literally just gonna call it Andy's Pearson Cuty
Speaker 1: exemption when you when you brought this idea up. But
Speaker 1: I think that's great. And you know, we've been looking
Speaker 1: for ways to get Corn Fairy Tour players involved more
Speaker 1: quickly on the PGA Tour. You know, first of all,
Speaker 1: there is a value to players proving themselves over the
Speaker 1: course of a season on the Corn Fairy Tour. I
Speaker 1: don't think we need to get rid of that. But
Speaker 1: I also think that winning three events in you know,
Speaker 1: in one season is a is a particularly I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's a useful way. The only
Speaker 1: kind of you know, immediate elevation opportunity that there should
Speaker 1: be these designated events, you know, given opportunity for the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour to get some players who maybe belong on
Speaker 1: the tour. Just give them a chance, and they might
Speaker 1: they might not take advantage of it, and that's okay.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that's that's really nice. But
Speaker 1: you know who's going to be really, you know, not
Speaker 1: stoked about everything that you just laid.
Speaker 2: Out sixty one on the fat X Cup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, what are you going to do
Speaker 1: about those guys or are we not worried about them anymore?
Speaker 1: Because we've been worried about these sort of mid tier
Speaker 1: PGA Tour players who just sort of stick around, keep
Speaker 1: their cards year after year, but don't really bring much
Speaker 1: of value in terms of entertainment to the fans. And
Speaker 1: you know, they've been kind of determining policy for a
Speaker 1: long time. That's the reason why we have the schedule
Speaker 1: that we have. Partly, you know, the sponsors are also
Speaker 1: a factor, but the players pushing for the rank and
Speaker 1: file players, pushing for events not to be demoted that
Speaker 1: they rely on is a big reason why the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour schedule is what it is now. In the Live era,
Speaker 1: it seems like the power of the rank and file
Speaker 1: PGA Tour player is snding and the decisions are being
Speaker 1: made that don't really serve them directly because of the
Speaker 1: threat that Live has presented. And so I wonder if
Speaker 1: you think that in creating the designated events that the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour is going to continue to be able to
Speaker 1: kind of push past these players sixty to one to
Speaker 1: twenty in the FedEx Cup who have been determining so
Speaker 1: much policy in the past.
Speaker 2: Again, what what does the core thesis of these elevated
Speaker 2: events have to focus on? Preventing your existential threat? So
Speaker 2: from that standpoint, you cannot be worried about you know,
Speaker 2: we're seeing it with live the high profile player defections
Speaker 2: have slowed down since really since the Delaware meeting, and
Speaker 2: as those have slowed down, the defections have become Meto Perreira,
Speaker 2: great young player that I'd be excited about, but about playing,
Speaker 2: like see going and seeing play, but not somebody who's
Speaker 2: going to make a huge difference if he stays or leaves.
Speaker 1: Don't forget about Bassie Munios.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same same bucket, right, So creating this for the
Speaker 2: big players, and the other message to players sixty through
Speaker 2: one twenty is we're providing you a number of opportunities
Speaker 2: to elevate yourself. Like these other smaller events are going
Speaker 2: to have less stars in them, they give you more
Speaker 2: opportunity to play your way into these big events every week,
Speaker 2: every week, you play, you have the opportunity to play
Speaker 2: your way into an elevated event.
Speaker 1: But that's exactly what they don't want to do, right,
Speaker 1: They don't want to have to play their way in.
Speaker 1: They want they want the exemptocracy. Yeah, I know, but
Speaker 1: that's I mean, it's it's not what they want though
Speaker 1: that the meritocracy is not what FedEx sixty through one
Speaker 1: to twenty really want. I mean, I don't want to
Speaker 1: paint with too broad of a brush here. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that there are some guys in that range who, you know,
Speaker 1: want to see these changes that seem to be underway.
Speaker 1: But you know, those have been pretty comfortable spots in
Speaker 1: the past, with a lot of exemptions into very high
Speaker 1: dollar events, and they're going to lose quite a bit
Speaker 1: of that in this new PGA tour schedule. Now, are
Speaker 1: they going to lose all of it? No? I think
Speaker 1: their lives are still going to be pretty comfy if
Speaker 1: they're in that range, and maybe they deserve that, because
Speaker 1: being sixty through one twenty in the FedEx Cup is
Speaker 1: nothing to turn your nose up at. That is a
Speaker 1: major accomplishment for a golfer. These guys are amazingly good,
Speaker 1: but should they be getting, you know, these kind of
Speaker 1: automatic exemptions into any event that they want on the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. I don't know about that, and so it
Speaker 1: might be a tough sell though, I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you agree that it'll be a tough sell or
Speaker 1: do you think that this is going to, you know,
Speaker 1: resolve itself a little more easily than I think it is.
Speaker 2: I think that the power has shifted on the PGA
Speaker 2: Tour to the point of where it is a you know,
Speaker 2: it matters less. To be completely honest, I think.
Speaker 1: The Delaware delegation is ascendant for sure. Yeah, the thirty
Speaker 1: players who were in Delaware meeting the top players, it
Speaker 1: seems like that was a big moment where that group
Speaker 1: of players was sort of announcing we are the new
Speaker 1: power source on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: I'm reidoff players sixty to seventy in the FedEx Cup
Speaker 2: last year, and just to give you an idea of
Speaker 2: what they were, I just got to find where I
Speaker 2: had it pulled up here, So all right, sixty to
Speaker 2: seventy sixty or sixty one to seventy, say top sixty,
Speaker 2: so sixty one Alex Smalley, Mark Leishman, a Nierbonn Lahiri,
Speaker 2: Troy Barrett, Taylor Moore, Cam Davis, John had And Todd
Speaker 2: Lanto Griffin, Trey moll Nax.
Speaker 1: Okay, yep, right, we were talking about yeah.
Speaker 2: About about these guys not do you you know based
Speaker 2: off of their relevance last year, are any of these
Speaker 2: guys Like are you crying because they're not in there?
Speaker 2: Like that's that's the reality is that these are the
Speaker 2: players that you know. They're nice players. I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to demean them. They they had good years, but they
Speaker 2: don't feel like you're missing out And and really like
Speaker 2: if you start to scroll through the the first guy
Speaker 2: from last year that I feel like, okay, if we
Speaker 2: if we missed here, it would be a big miss
Speaker 2: is when we get into the forties and in the forties.
Speaker 2: At that back into the forties, you got Fleetwood at
Speaker 2: forty seven, see wook Him at forty eight, Turtle Hatton
Speaker 2: at forty nine, and Adam Hadwin at fifty. Like to me,
Speaker 2: that's where you get at like forty seven through forty nine,
Speaker 2: Y're where you have Hatton in Fleetwood. That's feels like, okay,
Speaker 2: like those are guys that be at elevate events.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a big, you know, a long
Speaker 1: running disjunction between fans and the PGA Tour, where fans
Speaker 1: those names that you read off in the sixties, with
Speaker 1: the exception of maybe Mark Leishman who went to Live
Speaker 1: last year, right, fans really don't follow those players in general.
Speaker 1: Casual fans don't know who they are. We know who
Speaker 1: they are, but they're not bringing value to most fans
Speaker 1: watching at home. But the PGA Tour and the way
Speaker 1: it was run valued those opinions of those players just
Speaker 1: as much as anybody else's on the PGA Tour. And
Speaker 1: so I guess the hope is recently that that dynamic
Speaker 1: has shifted a little bit and that the weight of
Speaker 1: the word of John rom Roy, McElroy, Justin Thomas, et
Speaker 1: cetera is starting to take on something more like it's
Speaker 1: true weight that it has with fans, right, that the
Speaker 1: importance of what they want to do with the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour is more in line with what the fans want
Speaker 1: to see from the PGA Tour. At least, that is
Speaker 1: the hope here, and that's what a lot of these
Speaker 1: speculations that we're going through about what the designated events
Speaker 1: could be are based on that these top players can
Speaker 1: start to make some decisions that would be more aligned
Speaker 1: with what the fans want.
Speaker 2: I think the important thing to remember, too, is that
Speaker 2: players who finished like sixty sixty fifth, they likely have
Speaker 2: played well enough at periods of time that they would
Speaker 2: have played their way into designated events a handful in
Speaker 2: a given year. And that's the important thing is that
Speaker 2: they aren't being excluded like the example here, Like you've
Speaker 2: got Alex Smalley and Taylor Moore, who I think I
Speaker 2: think Smalley was a rookie too, Taylor Moore was a rookie.
Speaker 2: Those guys had sensational years as rookies, right, and those
Speaker 2: guys are getting the opportunity to effectively play many major championships, right.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. The majors are even more closed off
Speaker 2: than these elevated events would be, Like the majors are
Speaker 2: harder to get into, like you need to be top
Speaker 2: fifty in the world rankings or you know one of
Speaker 2: these qualifications, like they aren't available to rookies. And this
Speaker 2: might be what the PGA tour veterans hate to hear.
Speaker 2: But these these elevated event, these designated events. These many
Speaker 2: major championships effectively would be so wide open to anyone
Speaker 2: with a PGA Tour card because all you have to
Speaker 2: do is play well in a week in a week
Speaker 2: leading up to the PGA Tour event, and you are in.
Speaker 2: You know, if there are three spots in effectively each
Speaker 2: event leading in for the top three non exempt, all
Speaker 2: you have to do really is finish in the top
Speaker 2: top seven, top eight in a given week. You have
Speaker 2: to play exceptionally one time, you know, in a year
Speaker 2: to play in one of these events. And what I
Speaker 2: really like is it rewards a Hothand maybe I'm just
Speaker 2: thinking about this now, there's a also you could cut
Speaker 2: back a certain exempt number. Maybe you cut back to
Speaker 2: what did we start with, fifty or sixty sixty sixty,
Speaker 2: So maybe we cut back to fifty. And there's a
Speaker 2: ten top ten non exempt from the last elevated event
Speaker 2: to next elevated event. So if you get hot in
Speaker 2: these elevated events, those designated events, sorry, these designated events,
Speaker 2: if you top ten, that would be pretty cool that
Speaker 2: you earn your way into the next one.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's a good place to wrap up.
Speaker 1: We got the phoenix open come out this week for
Speaker 1: hours first full field designated event. Yeah, it's a really
Speaker 1: interesting subject. It sort of intersects with a lot of
Speaker 1: different topics that we've been talking about for years now,
Speaker 1: and we'll see how they turn out. But my feeling
Speaker 1: is that this week's waste management is going to be
Speaker 1: a fun watch. We'll see. I don't think I remember
Speaker 1: seeing Rory McElroy at this event before. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if I'm right about that or wrong about that, but
Speaker 1: just the fact that he's there along with John Rahm
Speaker 1: and all of the other top players on the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour is very very exciting to me. And so in general,
Speaker 1: you know, we're not always the most positive about the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. We are the furthest thing from PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: yes men, But this has us, I think, legitimately excited
Speaker 1: about the future of the tour schedule. I think that
Speaker 1: we're going to see some real improvements and that kind
Speaker 1: of starts this week. This episode of the Frida Egg
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