WEBVTT - Strategies for Improving Coronavirus Testing 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.959 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts and more than a 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.959 hundred and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.079 Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.280 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.160 Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:35.680 YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Let's set the Business 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.480 week agenda. Gina Martin Adams with US chief equity strategist 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:41.920 at Bloomberg Intelligence on the phone from New Jersey. Also 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.160 from New Jersey, Dave Wilson, our stocks editor at Bloomberg News, 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.720 and Dave just set the trade. As Charlie mentioned, we 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:49.920 really have seen quite a bounce in the last hour 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.360 or so. Oh, no doubt about it. We're back at 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:53.800 the highs of the day. If you look at the 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.760 SMP five hundred you know, yesterday we were talking about 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.880 how you technology stocks were not at the forefront of 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.400 the games. In fact, they were trailing the market. Today 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.759 they are right there best performer among the eleven main 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.280 industry groups in the SMP five. In fact, ten the 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.760 eleven are higher. You know, financial shares the only exception 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.720 as far as that goes. So, you know, you put 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.520 this all together, and we're really close to the SMP 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.280 five hundred breaking its record from February, and it's just 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.440 a matter of a few points here or there that 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.840 we'll dictate it. You know, you look across the biggest companies, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.600 you know, the big tech companies if you like, call 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.559 them what you will, all up at least two percent, 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.000 Apple leading away with a gain of three and a 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.080 half percent. So you know, Tesla really jumps out to 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.479 a thirteen percent after deciding on a five for one 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.640 stock split. That's the sort of thing that happened in 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.840 the nineteen nineties and companies were splitting their shares left, 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.760 right and center, and they're just not doing that anymore. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.880 And so Tesla really does, you know, kind of look 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.360 like a throwback with with its stock performance today. It's 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.040 like with Apple and that's stock split two m the 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.400 real quick on today. So the narrative was that we 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.360 got higher producer prices and consumer prices over the last 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.920 two days and then we have a reflation slash inflation scenario. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.760 Do you buy any of that? That narrative um to 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.760 explain why value stocks got a little bit of rotation 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.040 over the last couple of days. But today's trade is 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.920 really driven by grows stocks again. So I think the 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.240 bigger story is we broke out above those July twenty 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.480 two highs and it's been off to the races ever since. 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.200 Where the market breaks through these sort of significant resistance levels, 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.680 it looks for the next level of resistance, which is 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.280 not until the most recent peaks. It's just sort of 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.000 full steam ahead until we get back to those early highs, 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.040 and then we'll probably test those highs. Uh. You know, 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.200 it's tough to say what's really driving the rotation. I 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.080 do think the technicals are a lot of it, because 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.720 from a fundamental perspective, there hasn't been a whole lot 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.200 to hang your hat on. You know, there's still a 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.000 lot of concern about while they are won't they on 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:02.280 the fiscal policy front, they're still uncertain landscape with respect 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:05.519 to a vaccine. Certainly, the FED is not adding a 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.720 ton of more firepower to this market, So I think 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.440 it's more technically driven than anything else. Except I do 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.760 want to say on that last point, um, you know 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:15.880 about the FED, I do feel like and I get people, 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.680 you know, messaging me or tweeting at me, and they're like, listen, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.760 if anything starts to fall apart, we know the Fed's 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.680 going to be there. I mean, is that kind of 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.400 a given, Gina, Yeah, it is. I mean there's an 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.960 implied FED put for sure. And that change that really 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.280 changed this year, especially in comparison to the last several 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.560 years when there was more focus and back in two 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.840 thousand seventeen two eighteen in particular, recall, we were focused 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.280 more on how much can the FED tightened, which is 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.640 a very different landscape than today, which is really just Okay, 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:45.480 the Fed's going to remain loose for a very very 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.640 long period of time. But usually what you see is 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.560 not it's not just that FED put. You've already priced 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.480 in the idea that the FED has accelerated the pace 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.040 of liquidity provision to the market. You've already priced in 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.840 the fact that rates are extremely low. You usually need 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:04.720 to the incrementally more liquidity and incrementally more movement in 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:08.480 rates to get really excited about stocks. Nonetheless, that's not 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.120 the case today. We're still seeing stock prices rise in 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:15.160 the vast majority of the rise is driven by valuation expansion. Um. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.920 So it's pretty clear to me that this is largely 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.360 technically driven. That's not a bad thing, um, It just 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.279 is is what to me is driving the market higher. Dave. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.200 If you take a look at the value trade, you know, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.039 the conversation in the market though, is in order to 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.440 have a sustained value rotation and a really move into 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.080 small caps, you need a vaccine full stop. You need 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.280 a recovery. Is that is that true? Well, there are 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.120 certainly those strategists who will say so, and we we've seen, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.760 you know, if you go back the last few months, 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.800 I mean occasionally you get these sort of two or 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.760 three day moves and valius stocks and people think, oh, 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:54.040 finally the situation has changed, because value has been trailing 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.080 really ever since the bull market began back in two 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.560 thousand nine. Well, you know, we're looking at another move 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.839 that's fizzled out, just like the earlier ones. Have, and 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.159 it's just a matter of you know, as long as 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:11.000 those big tech companies kind of stay at the forefront 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.839 of the market, it's like, you know, there's sort of 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.800 like a force field. Everything kind of ends up coming 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.359 back to them in some level, and you know, the 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.880 value stocks just haven't been able to compete. Alright, good stuff. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:26.800 Uh And I know, Dave, your chart coming up takes 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.680 a look at fear in the market specifically specifically looking 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:35.280 at US options, so looking forward to much more specific alright, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.480 really appreciate it. Dave Wilson our stocks that her Bloomberg News. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.080 Gina Martin Adams was chief equity strategist at Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.760 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.320 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We know that the world is 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.720 in a race for a vaccine for COVID nineteam more 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.960 likely several vaccines, but in the meantime, testing and tracing 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.920 are key to keeping coronavirus in check. And especially when 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.920 we talk about reopening schools. College in university is our 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.120 next guest has some thoughts on that, especially when it 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.400 comes to tapping into what he sees as the under 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.080 utilization of the nation's test labs. We welcome back Dr 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.000 Eric Shott, founder and CEO at SEMMA for It's a 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.560 patient centric predictive health companies. Also Dean for Precision Medicine 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.840 UH and Mount Sinai Professor in Predictive Health and Computational Biology. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.600 He's really smart, Alex at the Icon School of Medicine 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.640 at Mount sign Now he joins us once again on 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.320 the phone in Connecticut. Um, Eric's good to have you 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.000 back with us. Tell us a little bit about testing 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.560 and tracing, right. We keep hearing how important this is. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.599 But as Alex said at the top of the show, 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.240 she recently had to go in for a procedure, got 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.800 her test done, got the results back pretty quickly. But 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.559 she and I've seen this to other people taking tests 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.239 and it takes forever to get the results back. Yeah. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.560 So there's, you know, a lot of testing capacity out there. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.760 I think it all comes down to logistics and who 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.479 you know has the right kind of partnerships with the 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.960 different systems to kind of leverage capacity beyond one lab. 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.880 There's no single lab that can handle all of the 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:11.080 capacity that's coming. Right. We have these fluctuations and episodes 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:15.640 of intense UM outbreaks where the testing demand gets super high, 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.760 and so it's this it's logistical really the ability to 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.960 manage and leverage multiple partners to be able to leverage 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.560 the capacity that's available without getting too political. I mean 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:29.400 President Trump talks a lot about how we have the 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.920 best testing system in the world, and we've really done 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.320 a good job with testing UM. So what is he 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.360 talking about, like where do we do well and then 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.000 where do we need to do better. So the the 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.960 technological side of the testing, you know, being able to 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:51.080 provide highly sensitive, very specific, very accurate tests, the technologies 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.960 those are based on the ability to automate those technologies 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.960 like we do lead in that arena, I think where 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.920 we fall down, uh, and would not say we're the 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.600 best you know in the world, would be again, on 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.679 this logistics side, the ability to manage huge patient flows, 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.520 the collection of samples, the the sending of those samples 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.480 into the major labs to get them processed like that 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.520 requires more of a centralized infrastructure that a few big 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.640 labs have, but they're overwhelmed and can't meet the demands well. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.160 As we all said at the beginning to and we 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.120 heard this from a lot of our guests early on, 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.480 and UM it was all about kind of a war effort, 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.160 like we needed to think about getting ahead of this 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.120 as if we were fighting. I mean, we were fighting, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.440 it was a health war, but I mean that's something 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.720 Eric Ween kind of needed to do UM and really 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.400 have federal involvement, national national strategy, but we didn't have it. 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.760 And it sounds like that's what you're talking about. And 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.760 the scale of testing is something no lab in the 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.839 country has had to undertake in the history of the US. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.560 You know, the ability to run many hundreds of thousands 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.680 into the millions of tests today, that's just a scale 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.120 we've never had to face before. So the kind of 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:09.120 infrastructure you need to accommodate that, the coordination within the government, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.000 within the private lab world, that's just not something that existed. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.400 So talk to us about your own personal ramp up 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.040 that you guys did at Semaphore, because you got involved 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.040 with this pretty quickly and it wasn't what you were 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.360 set up to do initially, right right, it definitely you know, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.560 we were a state of the art, you know, next 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.880 generation sequencing UM lab and intelligence company, so we have 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.800 again familiarity with the technology and the automation, So that 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.040 part was easy. So what we were able to do 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.120 quickly with stand that technology up, run it through a clear, 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:45.520 certified UM lab and demonstrate the ability to get highly 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:50.280 accurate and quick turnaround results. UM. But like everybody else, 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:54.120 we faced you know, from the crunch on availability of 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.160 re agents and test kids to the logistics of getting 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.600 samples to flow through in a very themeless way. Those 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.680 are some of the obstacles we had to overcome, and 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.720 of course partnered with the state of Connecticut and a 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.400 lot of their resources around you know, bringing in UH 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:11.959 groups like the National Guard to help and so on. 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.880 So it was it was an interesting effort and it 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.840 was a nice way of putting that. UM. So you 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.560 brought it up sort of the huge effort. Uh, what 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.800 about financial cost for that? Because it's great to want 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.680 to change how we do stuff and do but it 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:32.200 feel like it's always gonna come down to dollars and cents. Yeah, 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:36.160 the cost um definitely plays a big role, you know, 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.240 how accommodated you want to be in the test. You know, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.440 we do have the ability to test in the home 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.079 to do you know, through saliva collection and UH anterior 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.440 nary swabbing of the nose and so on. But those 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.200 kits cost money. The shipping of those kits in a 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:54.000 timely way cost money. The running up the test costs money. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.560 And the software to support how you can manage large 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.400 flows of individuals like like consider back to work, back 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.360 to school programs where you know, those systems they don't 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.760 need just a test that they can flip, right, because 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.320 they're not accustomed to testing everybody that way. And and 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.400 say a school or a business they need they need 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.360 help managing that both, um, you know, managing who's eligible 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.679 for testing? What are their results? Are they eligible to 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.160 come back into the workplace or the school? Like So 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.600 there's a lot, a lot of again of infrastructure um 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.280 needed And so the cost varies widely depending on are 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.720 you just running a test that somebody has provided you 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.680 the sample or are you managing the entire flow I do. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.440 That's why you see no no please finish, no, no, 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.040 please finish. That's why you see the wide variability and um, 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.280 you know in the costs and the accessibility to those 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.440 kinds of services. I mean, what do we need realistically 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.280 in this country to be able to do in the testing. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.319 That's that's kind of demanded for a comfortable or more 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.600 comfortable reopening. And we just got about a minute. We're 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.120 gonna do some news and then we'll come back there. 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.640 I think it's you need uh, very large scale, very 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.360 low cost sample collection methods, and there are a number 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.600 of very significant efforts under way, you know, funded by 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.720 the Gates Foundation and the National Institutes of Health. Like 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.880 how do we for very low cost enable samples to 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.120 be collected in a home UM environment not have to 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.840 be medically observed? Like that's a big obstacle that UM 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.040 is being overcome. And then I think it's all about 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.679 like how do you enable laughs to handle hundreds of 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.000 thousands of samples coming in in a day. Like again, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.240 that's just like a logistical like think of your sitting 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.920 in a warehouse and hundreds of thousands of these samples 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.679 are coming at you. They have to be very carefully 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.240 managed and tracked and so on. UM. Doctor, you also 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.720 run a business. You had to deal with the business 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.040 during the pandemic. UM, how did you keep people motivated? 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.959 How did you do it? What did you learn? Well? 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.680 I think, you know, first of all, we're on a 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.199 cool mission that some of more like it is about 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.520 how do we better enabled patients and physicians to uh 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.800 make better decisions around their care. We have Core had 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.440 to stay in full operation while this was going on 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.120 because we provide standard care services and then the COVID testing, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.000 so it was like putting in place the right kinds 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.679 of protections enabling employees to feel save. We went to 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.120 the labs, went to alternating shifts where you know, we 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.040 had a chance to clean between shifts and and if 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.760 one shift got uh infacted, we you know had another 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.760 shift that could could pick up the ball. So it 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.679 was a lot of again logistical maneuvering and putting in 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.280 place the right protections and we you know, started doing 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.560 testing as well on the employees and um you know, 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.440 symptom tracking and so on to you know, just just 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.560 be as protected as possible. I am curious to dr 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.600 Shot you know, from your channels also at UM the 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:47.959 Icon School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and just the 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.480 folks that you're talking within your industry, in the medical 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:55.400 community at large. You know, how do you see playing out, 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.640 Do you have any visibility and what are your expectations. Yeah, 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:05.920 it's it's one of those times we don't we don't 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.760 have any visibility, so we're we're just asking everybody else 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.440 for it, right, Yeah, you know it's a it's a 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.760 tough one. I think you know, the testing will get 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.440 under more control. Uh, We'll we'll play out whether the 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.840 antibodies are predictive for immunity, uh, some vaccines. Hopefully we'll 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.920 roll onto the scene. Like I think what we'll see 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:29.840 as increasingly better management, better protection, allowing a more relaxed 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:33.280 dance given those better protections. Um, so I see thanks 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.920 getting um, you know, more back to normal uh into 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.200 but yeah, but definitely don't see this disappearing. I think 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.960 you know, it's going to stick with us for a while, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.320 and it's going to really be our ability to better 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.120 manage it and return to as normal as dance as possible. Well, 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.600 I'm glad that you mentioned that because I've been back 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.040 at work for I think this is my fifth week, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:55.960 and in the beginning when I came back, it was 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.040 really jarring. Um, and then I got all my systems 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.000 in place, like to sanitize, when to wipe stuff down, 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.800 and then it feels okay. And as I mentioned earlier, 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.720 I had a test last week and I'm negative. I 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.640 mean is this what we're all kind of in for, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:10.440 Like we all just have to kind of bite the bullet, 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.160 kind of get back in gear, and then we realize 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.200 it's going to be okay. And the protocols that we've 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.080 been taking or working, I think that's exactly right, Like 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.720 the evidence will build that those kind of protections are 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.200 working and do prevent um spread and new infections, and 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.720 they're not so onerous, and they do enable us to 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.360 get back into a somewhat normal stance and have more 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.200 face to face contact. You know, we are human beings 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.440 where where I don't think we were intended to live 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.520 in a completely digital world. So I think it is 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.280 important to get back to that kind of level. In 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.400 the back to work programs were helping manage we see 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.760 exactly what you mentioned, like if you follow those kind 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.320 of protocols like you can, you can be really well protected. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.760 It works well. And that's what's interesting because you are 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.800 working with corporations on back to work testing and also 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:00.280 with schools and colleges, So are you anticipating that that's like, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.440 as Alex said, that testing becomes more the norm that 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.000 we're all going to be doing it kind of on 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.800 a regular basis or maybe doing it for herselves. I mean, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.600 is that what's going to be as well? Just quickly, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.640 just got about a minute left. Yeah, I think, I 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.920 think absolutely. I think testing is going to become a 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.840 very critical component going forward, but it's it's a necessary component, 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.360 but not sufficient. I think a lot of the kind 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.520 of symptom tracking, how people are feeling, even some degree 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.920 of contact tracing, all of that combined will provide a 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.200 robust solution, like we will enter the era of surveillance 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.120 kind of testing like that, will I believe be here 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.840 to stay. That's like people knocking on our doors being 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:46.120 like are you home? I don't think people knocking on 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.240 your doors. I think it's surveillance from the standpoint of 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.760 are you infected? Is the virus spreading through communities? Like? 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.440 Because if it is, we can take extra protective steps 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.520 to slow it or prevent it. Yeah, it's definitely a 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.840 different new world her um, Eric, thank you so much, 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.600 really appreciate checking in with you again. Dr Eric Shott, 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.639 He's founder and CEO at SEMA, for joining us on 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.000 the phone from Stanford, Connecticut. This is Bloomberg Business Week 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.280 with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We've 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.600 got a special vaccine issue this week. It's all about 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.040 how we got here, the science, manufacturing, politics, and persuasion 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.720 that might just end the pandemic. It is called the 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.720 vaccine issue, and there's a really interesting story, a disturbing 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.040 one too, about how vaccine nationalism is making this deadly 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.920 disease even worse. Let's get into this story. Vernon Silver 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.120 Projects and Investigations Report re Bloomberg News. He joins us 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.720 on the phone from Rome. He wrote it, and also 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.720 with us is the editor of the magazine, Joe Webber 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.760 on the phone from Massachusetts. Joel, you know, just when 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:48.359 you think this story can't get any worse, you do 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:53.439 think about the nationalistic issues of this virus. It's right, 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.600 and you know again in one of the defining elements 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.760 of this issue was to sort of take this idea 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.640 of a vaccine and look at it from as many 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.159 different ways and angles as we could think of. And 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.280 it wasn't just about the sort of the horse race, 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.520 if you will, of trying to make this thing. And 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.480 as much as that's an important part, it also had 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.679 there's plenty of other components. And the political one is 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:19.320 obviously especially important dimension here and when when Arnon Vernon 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.000 sort of roses raised his hand about this idea, I 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.560 think it got to a deeper place because what we're 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.880 seeing is countries really having this in general, just this 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.800 resurgence of nationalism, and that's now manifesting itself um around 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.359 how they're approaching the vaccine, and as countries are digging 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.320 their heels in to sort of do everything by themselves, 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:45.879 it actually makes the whole situation worse because through collaboration, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.919 we might have been able to pull resources and maybee 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.800 maybe reach a cure or a vaccine quicker than we 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.679 otherwise might and benefit more people. And what I think 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.640 Vernon really found that was so in thing was being 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:02.680 in Rome, you know, which was one of the first 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.119 places affected by the pandemic. Uh. It really felt like 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:10.520 Italy was at sort of the forefront of this conversation. 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.200 So so Vernon, what was the Italian perspective on all 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.359 of this? I mean what we did was started following 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.600 the vial literally of how the vaccine were being produced. 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.560 And the first strand came in just ten little vials 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.560 that were sent from Oxford, uh to Rome to this 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.960 company that was going to make over ten thousand doses 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.400 for the trials, the very first large scale trials of 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:39.440 a vaccine in the world. Um and by happenstance um, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.879 the you know, the initial supply of that vaccine was 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:46.080 within the borders of Italy, and the politicians here latched 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.800 onto it and it kind of it kind of steamed, 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.360 you know, it was a snowball where you had more 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.680 deals being made and more kind of nationalist rhetoric coming 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.840 out of the mouths of the leaders here who needed 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.399 a redemption from having been the worst hit at the 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.840 outset um and the the end result is that we've 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.439 got about, you know, a quarter of the supply of 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:15.040 the Astra Zeneca Oxford vaccine now being bottled within Italy's borders. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:16.639 And how it plays out in the end is one 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.920 of the questions that that's been left open as they balanced, 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.600 you know, let's all cooperate with well, we do have 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.840 it here. Well, I'm glad you brought that part up, 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.560 because I was wondering what the nationalism part means. Does 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.959 it mean that you provide the money to the company 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.320 to make the vaccine, that you then buy all the 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.359 vaccines and have to be a local company that's making 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.880 the vaccine or is it the distribution like the vials 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.840 and the manufacturing part. Like, there are lots of different 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.800 angles to it. Yeah, and the best way to understand 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.359 it is it breaks down into two areas, the bad 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.800 actors and the bad planners. And the bad actors are 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.760 you know, the accusations against the Chinese and Russian governments 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.040 that they've been hacking the Western efforts. The bad actors are. 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.159 We already saw it in March when protective equipment was 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.040 being blocked by different countries. Ninety different countries blocked equipment 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.240