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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Applecarckley and Android Auto

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the early edition this Thursday

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Speaker 2: on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Available as well live on

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Speaker 2: YouTube search Bloomberg Business News Live. Our conversation ahead with

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Speaker 2: Evelyn Farcas from the McCain Institute, as we get our

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Speaker 2: hands on the IG report that Tony Capassio broke yesterday,

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Speaker 2: our Pentagon reporter no longer inside the Pentagon, yet somehow

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Speaker 2: making more news than ever. This is the report, the

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Speaker 2: Watchdog report into Signalgate, which of course has caused the

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Speaker 2: walls to start closing in a bit around Pete Hegsth.

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Speaker 2: Michael Waltz, the President's former National Secure the Advisor, has

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Speaker 2: already been reassigned over this.

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Speaker 3: And what we're learning here.

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Speaker 2: Is indeed troops may have been put at risk when

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Speaker 2: the Defense Secretary decided to share on signal on the

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Speaker 2: app that we're talking about here, some battle plans that

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Speaker 2: we're about to unfold over Yemen. We're joined now by

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Speaker 2: the aforementioned Tony Capassio Bloomberg Pentagon national security reporter who

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Speaker 2: has his hands on the report.

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Speaker 3: This is what eighty something pages long?

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Speaker 2: Eighty four pages. Yeah, now you saw portions of this yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Are we learning more today?

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Speaker 3: We didn't see portions we were we were someone who did.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, someone who saw it gave us another media.

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Speaker 3: So I don't want to play overplays.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, But you're looking at these documents. Now, how much

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Speaker 2: more of a complete picture do we have?

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Speaker 4: It's somewhat more complete and somewhat more distressing. So it's

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Speaker 4: eighty four pages, but not every page is laced with gold.

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Speaker 4: For the viewers here, they want to look at page

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Speaker 4: twenty five, page fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Basically, those are the kind of the meat.

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Speaker 4: On page twenty five, it says the secretary's communication of

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Speaker 4: non public duty information created additional risks to US Force's admissions,

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Speaker 4: and the killer quote is in that page. But bottom

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Speaker 4: line is this showed that the Secretary of War Defense,

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Speaker 4: whatever you want to call it, was cavalier in his

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Speaker 4: use of this information. This is clearly classified battle of

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Speaker 4: war A time on target of Fateen's hitting XYZ timeframes,

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Speaker 4: and he sent this stuff out on signal two to

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Speaker 4: four hours before the operations began.

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Speaker 3: That was new to me. It just a very cavalier notion.

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Speaker 4: And then in his very cocky letter to the IG

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Speaker 4: basically sticking Thummy's nose seeing no classified information was set

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Speaker 4: March twenty fifty said the same thing, I didn't text

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Speaker 4: war plans to the media. Well, this reports center shows

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Speaker 4: that he was.

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Speaker 2: Not telling the truth, but it also indicated he had

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Speaker 2: the authority to declasses, had the.

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Speaker 3: Authority to two findings the IG thought they didn't.

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Speaker 4: They were silent on the issue whether he should have

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Speaker 4: declassified or could be classified.

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Speaker 3: Okay, excuse me.

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Speaker 4: They acknowledged that he was a declassifying authority, but they

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Speaker 4: didn't get into that that issue. It was more what

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Speaker 4: he did send out potentially could have caused risk. The pilots,

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Speaker 4: the hoodies don't have a great electronic warfare capabilities to

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Speaker 4: divine into signals sure signal gag, but the possibility was there,

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Speaker 4: and as clearly they put, his actions potentially put us

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Speaker 4: arament at risk.

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Speaker 2: Well, and of course the reason why we know about

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Speaker 2: this is because a journalist was inadvertently added by Michael Waltz,

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Speaker 2: the former National Security Advisor. To what extent then is

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Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth implicated because the chain was already there right by,

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Speaker 2: and there were two different chains we should be clear

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Speaker 2: about this. One had cabinet officials, the other he had

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Speaker 2: friends and family off.

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Speaker 4: And the second one they arely they barely discussed, and

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Speaker 4: it was like a blink of an eye that that

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Speaker 4: just in a highlight of the report, is.

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Speaker 2: That an existing thread before these battle plans were put

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Speaker 2: forth with the first or second, the one that had

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Speaker 2: the reporter on it, the one that had the Atlantic gain.

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Speaker 4: My impression was, no, he set that up after effective

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Speaker 4: report makes the case that he actually had access to

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Speaker 4: a secure facility.

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Speaker 3: They call it a skiff.

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Speaker 4: He had access to the facility to send the same

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Speaker 4: material aloud. But yeah, the point here is that he

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Speaker 4: denied it was classified information. The IG was pretty clear

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Speaker 4: that it was classified information and that putting it out

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Speaker 4: there created additional risks to US forces and missions.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll say as a point of fact, not

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Speaker 3: could have.

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Speaker 4: In fact, yeah, and let me read, even though these

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Speaker 4: events did not ultimately occur, the secretary's actions created a

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Speaker 4: risk to operational security that could have resulted in failed

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Speaker 4: US mission objectives and potential harm to US pilots.

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Speaker 2: Reading directly from the IG report that's on page twenty five,

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Speaker 2: I'll read directly from the statement from Senator Roger Wicker,

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Speaker 2: chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Quote, it is

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Speaker 2: clear from the reports that the secretary acted within his

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Speaker 2: authority to communicate the information in question to other cabinet

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Speaker 2: level officials, and then goes on to write, it's clear

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Speaker 2: our senior leaders need more tools available to them to

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Speaker 2: communicate classified information.

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Speaker 3: So nothing to see here. There was a genleminally, Bob

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Speaker 3: Bopp and Weave, you know that would be the man

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Speaker 3: to do something about it. Yeah, it was affecting.

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Speaker 4: His statement effectively, in my eyes, pretty much deflates this

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Speaker 4: whole issue.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the signal gate becomes deflate gate. That

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Speaker 2: was for producer James. There was also football correct.

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Speaker 3: Gate BI remember that. Well, that's what unfortunately was there

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Speaker 3: for that.

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Speaker 4: But the point here is that you know, while the

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Speaker 4: end of the authority to do it, there's a judgment

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Speaker 4: call here. Whether they do it on signally it's a

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Speaker 4: judgment issue.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Whether it is legal, whether it is right or

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Speaker 2: two different questions. Right now, let me ask you about

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Speaker 2: the other brick in the wall here, because you know

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Speaker 2: we're talking about a potential difficult day for Pete Hegseth.

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Speaker 2: You've also got top Rash, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs,

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Speaker 2: and the admiral who ordered the double tap strike on

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Speaker 2: the boat coming out of Venezuela testifying today on Capitol Hill.

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Speaker 2: There are questions today, and we'll talk to Evelyn Farcas

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Speaker 2: about this. At what point do these stories combine to

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Speaker 2: create a weight that the sect deaf cannot handle.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think speaking, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Think the wake is going to be that big on

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Speaker 4: based on this report.

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Speaker 3: How about what's happening on the Hill today.

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Speaker 4: It depends on whether the Republicans come on and show

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Speaker 4: some outrage. It can't be all Democrats predictably saying the

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Speaker 4: guys should go. And I don't see the wake, and

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Speaker 4: I don't see the wake over the water coming over

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Speaker 4: the ship's side. I see it maybe pounding against it,

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Speaker 4: but still rocking, but not capsizing.

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Speaker 2: Just a quick note where I started here, You were

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Speaker 2: excised essentially from the Pentagon by not signing.

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Speaker 3: Agreeing to sign this.

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Speaker 4: Exceled excise means I might have been assessed exiled.

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Speaker 3: We'll go with fine excise.

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Speaker 2: I think kind of well, listen, you choose the language

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Speaker 2: you want. Would this have come out yesterday if you

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Speaker 2: guys were all still in the building. I feel like

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Speaker 2: reporters like you are getting more news now having left

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon than you might have been getting inside the Pentagon.

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Speaker 4: No, No, this definitely would have come out had we

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Speaker 4: been inside. It would have been more contentious because we

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Speaker 4: would have gone into their face and say what about this?

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Speaker 3: What about? They might have come back more. Do you

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Speaker 3: think you're getting more scoops than you were before this happened.

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Speaker 4: I think the scoops are I'm getting about the same.

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Speaker 4: Interesting we're not getting those access in an emergency. If

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Speaker 4: the United States struck ven as a whale at tonight

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Speaker 4: or tomorrow, we wouldn't be.

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Speaker 3: Able to run any get stuff.

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Speaker 4: I think you're grabbed, and we'd be dependent on emails

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Speaker 4: and emails and causes which wouldn't be answered, and it

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Speaker 4: we'd be all depending on Twitter and they're babble from

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Speaker 4: other places.

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Speaker 2: People love it when you come on the program because

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Speaker 2: you're authentic, and I appreciate your bringing this reporting to us.

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Speaker 2: As always Tony Capassio Bloomberg Pentagon reporter with us in

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Speaker 2: the flesh here in the studio. We're lucky he's in

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Speaker 2: the bureau more often now. That was the decision across

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Speaker 2: the river. As we add the voice of Evelyn Farcas

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Speaker 2: with more today on the testimony and the idea of

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Speaker 2: the legality surrounding this second strike on the same boat

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Speaker 2: with survivors in the water. There's been some illuminating reporting

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Speaker 2: by The New York Times into this conditions that had

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Speaker 2: been set before this scenario by the Secretary of Defense

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Speaker 2: on how to handle survivors and whether, in fact they

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Speaker 2: continued to present a threat. President Trump talked about this

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Speaker 2: just yesterday. As a matter of fact, he was in

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Speaker 2: the Oval office when it came up. Listen to what

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Speaker 2: he said.

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Speaker 5: Do we know every route, We know every house where

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Speaker 5: they manufacture this crap, we know where they put it

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Speaker 5: all together.

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Speaker 3: And I think you're going to see it very soon

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Speaker 3: on land. Also, yeah, please, so.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, do you support the decision to kill

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Speaker 1: survivors after the.

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Speaker 5: No I support the decision to knock out the boats

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Speaker 5: and whoever's piloting those boats. Most of them are gone,

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Speaker 5: but whoever piloting those boats, they guilty if trying to

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Speaker 5: kill people at Arkotchi.

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Speaker 2: Evelyn Farkas is executive director at the McCain Institute at

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Speaker 2: Arizona State University and has been in the building. She's

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Speaker 2: former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia Ukraine. Your Asia, Evelyn,

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Speaker 2: It's great to see you back on Bloomberg TV and radio.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to turn you into a lawyer here,

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Speaker 2: but there are things like the Geneva Convention, international law

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Speaker 2: and training that troops go through, and certainly top brass

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Speaker 2: go through. When you talked about the general staff and

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Speaker 2: dealing with scenarios like this, what are these senators hearing

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Speaker 2: today from the admiral who ordered the strike and from

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Speaker 2: the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who both say they

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Speaker 2: acted legally.

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Speaker 6: Well, Joe, thanks again for having me back on again.

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Speaker 6: And I'm only sorry I can't be on with Tony Capaccio,

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Speaker 6: who is one of my favorite journalists.

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Speaker 3: I'm going back kids.

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Speaker 6: So look, unfortunately, we in the public don't yet know

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Speaker 6: exactly what transpired. I do think eventually we'll see the

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Speaker 6: videos and we'll get the full story. But I think

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Speaker 6: we have to step back one minute and understand that

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Speaker 6: these operations in and of themselves are likely illegal. The

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Speaker 6: fact that we are conducting these operations on the high seas,

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Speaker 6: the fact that we're calling them war, doesn't make it war.

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Speaker 6: These are police actions that are resulting in the killing

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Speaker 6: of people we don't even know, targets who we have

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Speaker 6: been told are drug smugglers working for kind of a

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Speaker 6: drug terrorist organization. So this is all new legal waters

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Speaker 6: to use a pun intended that we are being asked

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Speaker 6: to explore, and I would like to hear from lawyers. Frankly,

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Speaker 6: I don't want to hear just from the admiral. I

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Speaker 6: want to hear from seasoned you know, judge advocate generals,

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Speaker 6: people who understand the military law. And certainly when it

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Speaker 6: comes to the issue of people who are survivors who

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Speaker 6: are not piloting the boats Joe, who are in the

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Speaker 6: water clinging to them for their lives, those people are

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Speaker 6: survivors and they should be given safe passage. So we

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Speaker 6: know that if those were Americans in a war context

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Speaker 6: or in a police context, that we would expect the

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Speaker 6: same from any other actor who comes across them.

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Speaker 2: We have a literal split screen unfolding live right now

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Speaker 2: in Washington, Evelyn, as President Trump has begun speaking at

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Speaker 2: the Donald J. Trump Institute of Peace as it was

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Speaker 2: renamed just twenty four hours ago. He's there with the

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Speaker 2: presidents of Rwanda and the Congo to talk about their

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Speaker 2: arriving at peace. If you're with us on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 2: the backdrop behind the President has a big lettering that

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Speaker 2: reads delivering peace.

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Speaker 3: So with that in mind, Evelyn.

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Speaker 2: Reporting by The New York Times today shows that Pete

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Speaker 2: Hegseth approved contingency plans.

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Speaker 3: For this very scenario.

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Speaker 2: The military would in fact attempt to rescue survivors if

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Speaker 2: they appeared to be helpless, shipwrecked, or out of what

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Speaker 2: they considered the fight, but it would try to kill

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Speaker 2: them again if they took what the US deemed to

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Speaker 2: be a hostile action, like communicating with suspected cartel members.

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Speaker 2: After the smoke cleared from the September strike, there were two,

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned, survivors clinging to wreckage. One of them

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Speaker 2: radioed for help. Is radioing for help a hostile act?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 6: No, we know that from our own service members who

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Speaker 6: explained to us that they have survivor survival kits, and

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Speaker 6: the survival kits include radios, radios to call for help.

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Speaker 6: That is not an active war, that is an active

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Speaker 6: survivor so survival, if you will, that is a civilian

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Speaker 6: act if nothing else. So those individuals cannot be killed

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Speaker 6: for radioing for help.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting because Admiral Bradley and his legal advisor,

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Speaker 2: according to The Times, concluded that they were attempting to

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Speaker 2: continue their drug run, and they're telling senators today that

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Speaker 2: made the already damaged vessel illegitimate target. Evelyn What a

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Speaker 2: senator say in response?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I would doubt that that will hold

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Speaker 6: up in any kind of court of law. And frankly,

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Speaker 6: I do think that these individuals will be court martialed

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Speaker 6: at some point or brought before a military court of justice.

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Speaker 6: It's not naw and at the end of President Trump's

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Speaker 6: term or some other point in time when Congress can

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Speaker 6: step in more assertively. The reality is we need to

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Speaker 6: make sure that we abide by international law the United States.

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Speaker 7: That is because we have service.

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Speaker 6: Members who are working all over the world every day

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Speaker 6: during peace and obviously during war, and we want them

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Speaker 6: to also be given fair treatment and given the protection

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Speaker 6: that the Geneva Conventions gives them.

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Speaker 2: Huh, you believe Admiral Bradley will be court martialed or

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Speaker 2: other z evelyin.

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Speaker 7: Well, I don't know.

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Speaker 6: Obviously, we have to look and see what the how

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Speaker 6: the investigation unfolds. But it does appear. I guess I

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Speaker 6: shouldn't go so far forward, lean so far forward to

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Speaker 6: say that he definitely will be but there must be

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Speaker 6: more investigation. Let's just leave it at that, and then

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Speaker 6: someone might have to be held accountable. But there's also

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Speaker 6: an overriding question, as I mentioned Joe, about the legality

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Speaker 6: under international law.

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Speaker 8: Of these operations.

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Speaker 6: Deeming them war does not make them war.

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Speaker 2: To begin with, reporting in the Wall Street Journal about

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Speaker 2: a different Admiral, Alvin Halsey, who was the head of

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Speaker 2: southcom and until now we believe that he had stepped

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Speaker 2: down from his position in some sort of protest over

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Speaker 2: these operations eviln The journal is reporting that he was

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Speaker 2: forced out by Pete Hegseth after voicing initial concerns about

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Speaker 2: the legality of these operations. Based on your time in

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon, how unusual is it to see a commander

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Speaker 2: fired from his post or taken off of that post

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Speaker 2: during an ongoing military operation.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's incredibly rare, Joe, And I will note that

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Speaker 6: when I worked on the Senate Armed Services Committee, I

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Speaker 6: had oversight for the Southern Command as well as the

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Speaker 6: Special Operations Command. So you do not remove your leading

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Speaker 6: commander unless there's real cause. And in this case, the

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Speaker 6: only thing he did was question the legal assessment. It

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Speaker 6: sounds like, I mean, I don't also know the full

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Speaker 6: details on this, and to fire someone for questioning, which

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Speaker 6: really should be the commander's job. I mean, he should

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Speaker 6: be questioning everything to make sure that he's protecting the

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Speaker 6: men and women in uniform who are working and conducting

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Speaker 6: operations under his.

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Speaker 3: Orders as an admiral.

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Speaker 2: Can Alvin Halsey speak out about this or just in

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Speaker 2: our remaining thirty seconds, Evelyn, will he need to be

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Speaker 2: compelled by Congress to speak publicly?

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Speaker 3: He likely will.

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Speaker 6: Well, that's a good question. He can speak out as

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Speaker 6: a civilian, certainly, and the only thing that he can't

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Speaker 6: talk about are classified items publicly. But of course he

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Speaker 6: can speak to the relevant committees in a classified session

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Speaker 6: about all of this.

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Speaker 2: Be very curious to hear from him at some point here. Evelyn,

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Speaker 2: thank you for walking us through this. It's very helpful.

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Speaker 2: Evelyn Farcus speaking from experience in her time at the

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Speaker 2: Pentagon and of course in the United States Senate. She's

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Speaker 2: executive director of the McCain Institute at Arizona State University.

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Speaker 2: We'll assemble our political panel next. Rick Davis and Jane

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Speaker 2: Wartel are with us today. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 2: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much

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Speaker 2: more coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: almal Cochley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: With one of the most honest polls in America today,

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Speaker 2: you might have heard about a Google trending topics throughout

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Speaker 2: with their yearly list. What were we searching about? What

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Speaker 2: was important to you? Interesting to see politics creep into

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Speaker 2: the list in a number of cases here in some

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Speaker 2: cases pretty esoteric, actually, but it is honest about what's

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Speaker 2: important to us in America. Charlie Kirk was number one,

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Speaker 2: number one on the top ten here the late Charlie

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Speaker 2: Kirk spiking searches like no other story that we saw

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Speaker 2: this year. It is immediately followed by K pop demon hunters.

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Speaker 2: If you want to humble yourself as an American, continue

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Speaker 2: reading number three La boo boo. That's how you say it, right,

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Speaker 2: those scary looking toys, followed by iPhone seventeen and how

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Speaker 2: about this number five, one big beautiful bill. I guess

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Speaker 2: that communications effort worked pretty well for the president, followed

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Speaker 2: by Zoron Mam Danni Deep seek government shutdown and in

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Speaker 2: number ten tariffs. The stories that we talk about every

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Speaker 2: day here on balance of power. It's pretty remarkable, as

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Speaker 2: we asked today, with evidence of Congress showing up in

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Speaker 2: the Google yearly search trends. Here, what is happening in

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Speaker 2: the House of Representatives? If you read the tip sheets

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Speaker 2: this morning, you think it was Lord of the Flies,

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Speaker 2: Elis Stephonic and Chip Roy running around the bonfire calling

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Speaker 2: for the name of the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: there are some cross currents that are making life very

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Speaker 2: difficult for the Speaker, and in the case of Elise

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Speaker 2: Stephonic now taking a victory lap, criticizing the speaker, calling

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Speaker 2: him an ineffective leader who is losing control of his conference,

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Speaker 2: but she manage to impact legislation in the form of

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Speaker 2: the NDAA to her benefit. Listen to what the speaker

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Speaker 2: said when asked about his standoff with Stephonic. She's been

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Speaker 2: attacking him on social media and on television. He was

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Speaker 2: asked about it on Tuesday.

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Speaker 9: Listen, all of that is false. I don't exactly know why,

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Speaker 9: at least won't just call me. I texted her yesterday.

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Speaker 9: I sent my friend elsa text last night and I said,

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Speaker 9: can you find out what the issue was and I'll

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Speaker 9: help you resolve it.

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Speaker 7: I support her provision.

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Speaker 9: I mean I would vote for it, and I think

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Speaker 9: it's smart, and I'm not sure exactly why it wasn't included,

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Speaker 9: So I don't know why she's frustrated with me. I

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Speaker 9: literally had nothing to do with it, but I'm happy

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Speaker 9: to roll up my sleeves and help her. I want,

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Speaker 9: I want, I want everybody to be successful, and we're

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Speaker 9: going to try to make the bill best it can be.

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Speaker 3: Let's assemble our political panel for their thoughts on this.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis as where this Republican strategist

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Speaker 2: partner at Stone Court Capital alongside Democratic strategist Jenny Wartel,

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Speaker 2: partner at ARC Initiatives.

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Speaker 3: Great to see you both, Jennay.

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Speaker 2: What does it tell you when the Speaker of the

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Speaker 2: House is talking to his membership, in this case a

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Speaker 2: member of his own conference through the media, saying I

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Speaker 2: wish she would call me.

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Speaker 8: Well, look, of course the GOP is spiraling. They have

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Speaker 8: control of the White House, control of Congress both chambers,

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Speaker 8: and yet we're in a twenty twenty sixth election cycle

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Speaker 8: and the American people are not happy. We're in an

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Speaker 8: affordability crisis, healthcare is under attack. So now folks like

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Speaker 8: at least Tephanic want to be out front as being

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Speaker 8: dissenting or expressing discontent with the direction that Congress is

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Speaker 8: taking and their key votes on some of these policies. Now, yes,

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Speaker 8: she could have just picked up the phone or sent

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Speaker 8: a text and reached out to Speaker Johnson, but instead

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Speaker 8: she wanted to be out front as showing that she

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Speaker 8: is not a part of the rank and file of

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Speaker 8: Republicans who have gone along with the Trump administration's policies

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Speaker 8: and the most recent controversial votes that Congress has taken.

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Speaker 8: And so you know, she's reading the tea leaves here,

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Speaker 8: as are Mini. We're seeing these Google searches really reflecting

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Speaker 8: that Americans are tuned into politics and that they haven't

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Speaker 8: been googling the one beautiful bill understanding what cares are.

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Speaker 3: Folks are dialed in.

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Speaker 8: And what we're seeing now is that Republicans are trying

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Speaker 8: to figure out ways to show some independence from what

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Speaker 8: has been Donald Trump's real stranglehold.

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Speaker 3: On the party.

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Speaker 2: You know, interesting, it wasn't just this provision in the NDAA.

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Speaker 2: Rick stephonic talk to the Wall Street Journal cited matters

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Speaker 2: ranging from members criticizing Speaker's decision to keep lawmakers of

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Speaker 2: their home districts during the recent government shutdown to week

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Speaker 2: showings and special elections, to what she cast as his

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Speaker 2: failure to address the expected jump in healthcare costs if

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Speaker 2: the party doesn't reach agreement soon with Democrats. And that's

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Speaker 2: going to bring us to the jumping off point here

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Speaker 2: when it comes to the looming healthcare vote a week

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Speaker 2: from today in the Senate, how many members of the

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Speaker 2: Republican conference is at least to phonic speaking for Rick,

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Speaker 2: because we know Nancy May says she may soon announce

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Speaker 2: her decision to follow Marjorie Tayler Green out the door

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Speaker 2: in not running for re election.

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Speaker 10: Yeah look, I mean, you don't need to look any

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Speaker 10: further than last week special election in Tennessee or this

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Speaker 10: week's special election in Tennessee where you know you lost basically,

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Speaker 10: you know, ten to twelve percent of the Republican vote

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Speaker 10: from twenty twenty four to twenty from twenty twenty four

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Speaker 10: to twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it is a big deal.

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Speaker 10: There are fifty House Republicans in districts that Trump won

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Speaker 10: by ten to twelve to fifteen percent.

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Speaker 3: That now we're waking up saying I could lose.

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Speaker 10: And if you lost fifty Republicans in a House, you

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Speaker 10: can forget any initiative legislatively for Donald Trump in the

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Speaker 10: last two years of his office. So this is this

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Speaker 10: is a major political fallout that's occurring both after the

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Speaker 10: elections last year and then this year. And it's it's

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Speaker 10: got Republicans in a pretty grumpy mood. I mean, and

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Speaker 10: talk about at least a bony How about the most

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Speaker 10: recent thing, I mean, she got out there beating up

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Speaker 10: Mayor elect Mondani before his trip to Washington, and then

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Speaker 10: Trump throws her under the bus in a love fest

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Speaker 10: with a socialist. I mean, like, she has made every

442
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 10: bet wrong this month and she's mad about it, and

443
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 10: she should be mad about it because the party has

444
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 10: become something different than what she had And Marjorie Taylor

445
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 10: Green read the same tea leaves and is out And

446
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 10: as you point out, there are others like Mace who

447
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 10: are running for governor and have other things to do,

448
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 10: and maybe I don't want to spend my time getting

449
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 10: wasted in Washington for the next year.

450
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: Wow boy, oh boy.

451
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Rick reminds Ustefanic is running for governor here, Janaana,

452
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 2: so we do need to look at her remarks and

453
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: her posture here through that prism with the campaign. But

454
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 2: she went on to say to the journal, whereas Kevin

455
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: McCarthy was a political animal, Mike Johnson is a political novice,

456
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: and boy does it show. With House Republicans underperforming for

457
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: the first time in the Trump era, I'm confused. I

458
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: thought Mike Johnson was the golden boy, the only guy

459
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: who got to deliver at the end for Donald Trump.

460
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: Kevin McCarthy was fired for doing things that Mike Johnson

461
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 2: managed to pull off.

462
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: How has this changed so quickly?

463
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 8: Well, you said the two magic words, Donald Trump. And

464
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 8: one of the reasons why Mike Johnson has been so

465
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 8: successful is because Donald Trump under threat of primary for

466
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 8: any lawmaker congressman who steps out of line, has threatened

467
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 8: to primary them. So for the first what nine ten

468
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 8: months of the administration, we saw that no one was

469
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 8: stepping out of line. They were voting on unpopular legislation,

470
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 8: they were voting against the interests of constituents in their districts.

471
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 8: And now those chickens have come home to roosts because

472
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 8: we're in the twenty twenty sixth election cycle. So I

473
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 8: think that Mike Johnson's effectiveness has really been tied more

474
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 8: directly to how much that folks have fallen in line

475
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 8: with Donald Trump rather than his own political maneuvering and

476
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 8: how he's been able to bring folks together. And now, surprisingly,

477
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 8: given that we're in the twenty twenty sixth election cycle,

478
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 8: we see that folks are starting to realize that they're

479
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 8: in these vulnerable districts. They as we mentioned, saw the

480
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 8: election results from a few tuesdays ago and said, Wow,

481
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,719
Speaker 8: a lot of what we are we've been voting on,

482
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 8: and what we've been loyal to Donald Trump about has

483
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 8: created this affordability crisis for our constituents. They're not happy

484
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 8: about healthcare, They're not happy about anything right now, and

485
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 8: so we've got to find ways to show some independence.

486
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 8: So I think Mike Johnson's real effectiveness has really more

487
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 8: so been tied to how strong has the Republican brand

488
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 8: been under Trump for the first few months of this administration.

489
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: Interesting, you know, so a week from today, as I

490
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: mentioned that the healthcare vote is supposed to take place

491
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: in the Senate, that's what John Thune promised, and we

492
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: are seeing the gears turn a little bit today. Rick,

493
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: there was a meeting yesterday that included Senator Bill Cassidy

494
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: representing his plan. On the Senate side, Representatives Josh Godmer

495
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 2: and Jen Kiggins D and R were in that meeting

496
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: as well. They didn't come to a particular agreement, but

497
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: they're talking. And today the aforementioned Gotteimer and Higgins are

498
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: introducing a framework their own bipartisan legislation here to reduce

499
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: health premiums. Is this going to be another case where

500
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson gets a vote, something passes in a squeaker

501
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: and he's the made man once again.

502
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 10: Well, he hopes so, because right now Republicans are outside

503
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 10: of affordability desperate to do something positive around healthcare. It's

504
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 10: pretty clear that we lost the narrative debate around the

505
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 10: shutdown over healthcare. Regardless of how you feel about the

506
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 10: shutdown writ large, we got on totally the defensive Republicans

507
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 10: did on healthcare, and they're desperate to get back into

508
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 10: the game. And so my guess is you have a

509
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 10: very high chance that something comes out of the House

510
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 10: that the Speaker will try to take a victory lap on,

511
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 10: even though you know his strategy around the shutdown was

512
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 10: what put us in this place to begin with. Memories

513
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 10: are not that short in the House of Representatives, and

514
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 10: as at least Aphonics said, if an election were held

515
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 10: today for a speaker, no way would this guy get elected. So, uh,

516
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 10: you know, you've got a pretty good mess in the

517
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 10: leadership in the House of Representatives, and you kind of

518
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 10: hope that they can eke something out on healthcare so

519
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 10: that we can get through this year in a better

520
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 10: position going into the election cycle than we are at now.

521
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: Boy, you got our wonder who could get elected? Great conversation,

522
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: Rick and Jenay, thank you so much. Great panel today.

523
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor, Stone Court Capital and Jenee

524
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: Wartel Arc Initiatives, fascinating insights.

525
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: We're going to go to the source on this.

526
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: You're not going to want to leave because coming up

527
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: we'll speak with a member of the Republican Conference in

528
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,479
Speaker 2: the House, Marlon Stutzman, Republican from Indiana's third District, with

529
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: us on a range of issues including what we've already

530
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 2: talked about here, remembering as well on the Financial Services Committee,

531
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: as we consider the next FED share being announced and

532
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: how easy it.

533
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 3: Might be for him to be confirmed.

534
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg. Stay with us on Balance of Power.

535
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: We'll have much more coming up after this.

536
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch

537
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,

538
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You

539
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship

540
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty

541
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: as we.

542
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: Talk policy and politics here in Washington.

543
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in the nation's capital, and thank you

544
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,959
Speaker 2: for spending part of your Thursday with us, with our

545
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: eyes on Capitol Hill and a looming vote one week

546
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: from today in the United States Senate. At least John

547
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: Thunne promised that vote. The majority leader to Democrats as

548
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: part of the conversation to reopen the government. That vote

549
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: on health care. Whether it extends the current COVID COVID era,

550
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: I should say, subsidies from Obamacare, or is some other

551
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: type of reform or an entirely different plan to replace it.

552
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: No one has come to terms on this, but an

553
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: important development today as a Democrat and a Republican in

554
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: the House of Representatives drop a bipartisan framework to reduce

555
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: health premiums. That's Representatives Josh Gotttheimer and Jen Kiggins, the

556
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: D and R, respectively, providing potentially some hope to get

557
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: around this matter and then move on to or at

558
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: least continue the work to fund the government past the

559
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: end of January.

560
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: Time is tight.

561
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: If we're following along on our home game here, I

562
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: think we're below ten legislative days remaining to get all

563
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: of this done, and it's where we start our conversation

564
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: with Congressman Marlin Stutzman, the Republican from Indiana's third District,

565
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 2: is with us and it's great to have you back

566
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: on the program. Congressman, you've got a couple of important

567
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: committee assignments for our audience here on Bloomberg as a

568
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: member of Financial Services and as a member of the

569
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: Budget Committee.

570
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: Do you see all the chaos.

571
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: Surrounding healthcare finally being solved in the next week.

572
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 11: Great to be with you, Joe. I don't think we'll

573
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 11: get all of the problems solved. I think, you know,

574
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 11: what we all are realizing is that the Affordable Care

575
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 11: Act isn't as affordable as was promised, and I think

576
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 11: that that there's a lot of frustration. I was just

577
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 11: talking to my brother, who runs family businesses for us

578
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 11: back home, and he was talking about the cost of

579
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 11: healthcare going up for smaller, you know.

580
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 7: To mid size companies.

581
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 11: And that's one of the challenges that we've all been

582
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 11: facing in this country is the fact that the you know,

583
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 11: inflation has definitely affected the economy and the ability to

584
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 11: make those raises for employees. My hope is is that

585
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 11: we've set the table with the big, beautiful bill, keeping

586
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 11: taxes where they're at, and making sure that the regulatory

587
00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 11: environment is much more affordable or much more you know,

588
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 11: in check, so that way businesses don't have to those

589
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 11: high cost of accountants and attorneys and consultants to be

590
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 11: able to make a profit. So I don't think it's

591
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 11: going to happen all in this next week. I always,

592
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 11: of course commend those who want to try to find

593
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 11: a solution. I'm always willing to look at anything. But

594
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 11: at the end of the day, I think what's really

595
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 11: going to be what's going to matter here is that

596
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 11: these subsidies should go directly to the American consumer rather

597
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 11: than to the insurance companies. I think the insurance companies

598
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 11: have really lost the faith and trust of the American

599
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 11: people and don't feel like they're getting their best bang

600
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 11: for their buck.

601
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: Well, what do you think of this Scotttheimer Kiggins bill

602
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: and what are you hearing about it? It would provide,

603
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: as I understand, a one year extension for these subsidies

604
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: would also add new guardrails when it comes to eligibility,

605
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: cracking down on fraud, and a menu of separate pay

606
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: for options not in the form of subsidies. Is that

607
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: getting closer to something you might support, It's going.

608
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 11: To be tough for me, Joe, I'll be honest, just

609
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 11: because I don't have the faith and confidence in the

610
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 11: insurance companies either. You know, if we send them the money,

611
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 11: they're going to know add it to their bottom line.

612
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 11: I would much rather send it to the hsas, send

613
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 11: the money directly to the consumers, let the consumer make

614
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 11: the decision on what to do with those funds, because

615
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 11: I think that's where the American people feel like, you know,

616
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 11: they're getting jipped. I mean because the you know, the

617
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 11: money goes through government, the money goes through big corporations,

618
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 11: and then what gets left to them at the end

619
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 11: of the day isn't enough to cover the bills. And

620
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 11: I think that's why, you know, just like the Trump

621
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 11: the Trump Savings account that has got some attention this week,

622
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 11: it empowers the American individual. It makes sure that the

623
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 11: money gets to them and then they can decide how

624
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 11: those moneies would be used. And going through an HSA

625
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 11: would give those guardrails to be sure that the funds

626
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 11: go to actual health care services provided.

627
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, with so little agreed upon, Congressman, what's your

628
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: gut are you worried about a shutdown in the new year,

629
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: or can this be solved by that.

630
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 11: I don't think there will be a shutdown again, you know.

631
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 11: I think the Democrats, you know, they got what they

632
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 11: were looking for to show that they're showed their base

633
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 11: that they were fighting for them.

634
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 7: You know.

635
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 11: Again, I don't think it comes back down just to

636
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 11: these subsidies. I think there's more with the Democrat side

637
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 11: that they're just trying to put a put slow the

638
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 11: momentum that President Trump had, and it has worked. You know,

639
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 11: We're not getting things moving as quickly as we'd like

640
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 11: to in Congress, but we're getting there.

641
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 7: It's going to happen.

642
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 11: I think a lot of the hard work was already

643
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 11: done with a big, beautiful bill, making sure that we're

644
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 11: you know, companies are ready to set their budgets for

645
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 11: twenty twenty six, whether it was last month or this month.

646
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 11: But we've got a lot of work to do. And

647
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 11: I know that affordability is a big issue, whether it's housing,

648
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 11: whether it's you know, buying a new car or buying

649
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 11: a used car. Interest rates are coming down a little bit.

650
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 11: That's that's helping. I think the outlook is bright but

651
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 11: we're still going through the leftover, kind of the hangover

652
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 11: of the Biden administration.

653
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: Well, so talk to us about the Budge process.

654
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 2: You're actually on the Budget Committee, and there's been talk

655
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: of something revolutionary happening, as the Speaker promised Regular Order Congressman,

656
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: I don't mean to get too cute here. I don't

657
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: think anybody sees twelve separate bills coming together. But we

658
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: could have a couple of minibus bills correct, that would

659
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: help us fund the government past January thirty.

660
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: How close are we to making that happen.

661
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 11: Yeah, Well, that's always the goal. And I appreciate Speaker

662
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 11: Johnson's leadership. I mean, he has brought the Republican Conference

663
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 11: a long way in the House with a small majority,

664
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 11: he doesn't take too many members to jump off that

665
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 11: makes it difficult to pass anything. That's one thing that

666
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 11: Republicans need to do is stick together. We've got a

667
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 11: great leader at the White House, we've got partners in

668
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 11: the Senate where we're getting stuff done. It's not easy,

669
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 11: but at the same time, that should always be the

670
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 11: goal of getting twelve appropriations bills passed. If it doesn't

671
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 11: work exactly the way we want it. We've got to

672
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 11: be nimble and flexible to be able to the best

673
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 11: packages on the floor that we can. Always is going

674
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 11: to be some other issues that come up that take attention,

675
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 11: but I think we're going to get there, and we

676
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 11: know from what we've passed already that we're going to

677
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 11: start cutting the expenses that Washington has been doing for

678
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 11: the last several decades that just seem to be out

679
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 11: of control, and that's where reforms are going to have

680
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 11: to be made. But we can do this by empowering

681
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 11: the American people and not just empowering the big corporations

682
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 11: that take a lot to their bottom line.

683
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: I know you're referring to Republican unity in the House,

684
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: but there have been some concerns about discord and the

685
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 2: family Congressman look no further than a least dephonic who

686
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: has been at odds with Speaker Johnson over a number

687
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: of issues beyond the provision and the NDAA that she

688
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: planted a flag on. There are questions about more than that,

689
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 2: she says, speaking with The Wall Street Journal, citing matters

690
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: ranging from members criticizing Speaker's decision to keep lawmakers like

691
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: yourself home during the shutdown to week showings and special

692
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: elections to what she cast as his failure to address

693
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: and expected jump in healthcare costs, which you and I

694
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: were just talking about. She went on to say Kevin

695
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: McCarthy was a political animal, Mike Johnson is a political novice,

696
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: and BOYD does it show Is this just a member

697
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: running for governor congressman or is there more to it?

698
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 3: In your conference?

699
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 11: Well, no, I mean, this is the first I've actually

700
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 11: heard of this. I know, I know there's been a

701
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 11: couple of members that have expressed frustration publicly. Marjorie Taylor

702
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 11: Green is one of them, and of course at least staphonic.

703
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 11: She was put in a really awkward, difficult spot, you know,

704
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 11: here she thought she was going to be the UN

705
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 11: ambassador and those things didn't work out, and now she's

706
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 11: running for governor. You know, I wish we would always

707
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 11: keep those conversations inside the family, and you know, especially

708
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 11: one on one. She should be expressing her frustration with

709
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 11: the speaker if it's genuinely real. I mean, that's what

710
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 11: we should all be doing. So, you know, taking them

711
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 11: public I don't think is the right way, but I

712
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 11: have a ton of respect for a lease.

713
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 7: She's a great leader.

714
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 11: She will be a great governor of New York if

715
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 11: if that's what she decides she's going to do. Speaker

716
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 11: Johnson has a very tough job, and I think that

717
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 11: the fact that you know this, the shutdown did hurt

718
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 11: the momentum that we had. If that's what Democrats wanted,

719
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 11: that it probably did help them.

720
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 7: But we're going to get back on track. We're going

721
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 7: to make sure.

722
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 11: You know, the NDAA is as kind of one of

723
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 11: those must pass bills, and so everybody's jockeying trying to

724
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 11: get their piece of legislation into the NDAA because they

725
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 11: know it's going to likely get across the finish line.

726
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 11: But Speaker Johnson will navigate all of that. I'm sure

727
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 11: he's already, you know, making the phone calls to at

728
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 11: least to say, hey, let's get together and talk and

729
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 11: work this out. We really got to stick together as

730
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 11: a team.

731
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: Ever, the diplomat in Marlon Stutsman, Congressman, I've got to

732
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 2: ask you about redistricting. There is an effort in your state,

733
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: a big push and pull at least in the state

734
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: legislature when it comes to Indiana.

735
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 3: Do you support the effort.

736
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 11: I do, you know, and it's it's one of those

737
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 11: things again where these issues come at you and you're like,

738
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 11: why do we have to do this? You know, why

739
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 11: are we having to you know, break the precedent. Well,

740
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 11: the problem is is, you know, we meet all the

741
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 11: time in legislative bodies because something's changed, you know, precedent changed,

742
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 11: and so we always are faced with challenges.

743
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 7: And I think that it's.

744
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 11: One of those that the Indiana legislature wasn't expecting. But

745
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 11: a lot of this comes back to the politics that

746
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 11: I mentioned earlier. The Democrats have been you know, drawing

747
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 11: their maps in states like California, Illinois.

748
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 7: Massachusetts is a good example.

749
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 11: Massachusetts is as Democrat as Indiana is Republican. And you know,

750
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 11: there's nine districts in Massachusetts. There's nine districts in Indiana.

751
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 11: Every district in Massachusetts is Democrat. It's favored to the Democrats.

752
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 4: You know.

753
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 11: In Indiana, I think the maps were actually very favorable

754
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 11: to the Democrats because there was one district in Indianapolis

755
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 11: that it was a true blue Democrat seat, and then

756
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 11: of course Northwest Indiana was a swing seat kind of

757
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 11: But we've had a lot of people moving over from Illinois.

758
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 11: And you know, if we're going to play partisan politics,

759
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 11: Indiana is a nine zero state and so the Republican

760
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 11: friends in this legislature there need to realize we're a

761
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 11: national battle here.

762
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 7: This isn't just about Indiana.

763
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 11: It's a national battle where we need to be sure

764
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 11: that there's equal representation in Washington for Hoosiers.

765
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 3: Wow.

766
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: Well, a couple of different scenarios that you just outlined there, right.

767
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: And first of all, California was responding to Texas, which

768
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: got the ball rolling on this, and some of those

769
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: other states you mentioned, like Massachusetts were on schedule with

770
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: the census.

771
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 4: Right.

772
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: The question has been should every state just go for

773
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: it right now and hope for the best when it's done.

774
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: And it looks like that's a yes for Indiana.

775
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 11: Well it is, but Texas was also forced to do

776
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 11: it by the court, so it wasn't just they decided

777
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 11: to do that. That's something that I've checked on several

778
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 11: times because I always hear that explanation. You know, California,

779
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 11: they actually put it to a vote to the people,

780
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 11: and the people overwhelming they voted said hey, we're going

781
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 11: to let the legislator go ahead. And draw the maps again.

782
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 11: So I tell my Indiana's colleagues, like, you know what,

783
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 11: if you put the issue in front of the people

784
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 11: of Indiana, they would probably look at it the same

785
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 11: way as Californians.

786
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 7: But they just have a different process.

787
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 11: You know, they actually have to take it to a

788
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 11: vote first with the public. Indiana has a different process.

789
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 11: We have a super majority. I think it needs to

790
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 11: be something that needs to get done so that way

791
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 11: we can continue to push the conservative agenda forward.

792
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say that you might

793
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: actually bring this to a vote in Indiana. I know

794
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 2: Governor Brunn had some concerns about this to begin with,

795
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: but I read what you're.

796
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: Saying right now.

797
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 2: I have to ask you quickly, while you're with US

798
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: Congressman with your post on the Financial Services Committee, about

799
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's reporting that Kevin Hassett is leading the charge here

800
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: and at the top of President Trump's list to be

801
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 2: the next fedch here.

802
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 3: Is that a name you would support? Oh?

803
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 7: Would? I hope?

804
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 4: So?

805
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 7: I love Kevin.

806
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 11: He's done a great job for the administration already. You know,

807
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 11: he's just got a great smile. He's always optimistic. But

808
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 11: I think he's also the level head that we need

809
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 11: a steady hand, you know, between Kevin and Scott Assent,

810
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 11: two great folks at the wheel for the American economy,

811
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 11: and he's got my vote.

812
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 7: If there's anybody that is listening.

813
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: Well, Scott Bessett might if this happens, Bloomberg reporting that

814
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: the White House might give him has its job as

815
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 2: well running the NEEC. That gives I think Scott Bessett

816
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: three hats. Are you comfortable with that?

817
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 11: Well, he's got a really big one with just the irs,

818
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 11: I should say so, right, So, you know, Scott is tremendous.

819
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 11: I always enjoy our meetings with him on the Budget Committee.

820
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 11: He's very thoughtful. He's got a great team around him.

821
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 11: He knows how these things work, and I'm sure he'll

822
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 11: do whatever he can for the President ultimately for the

823
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 11: American people.

824
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: Great Congressman, come back and talk to us about your

825
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 2: invest act next time.

826
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 3: We'd like to keep the conversation rolling.

827
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: Marlin Stutsman, Republican from Indiana's third District, with us live

828
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: from Capitol Hill.

829
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

830
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already at Apple, Spotify,

831
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

832
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, d C, Time Eastern

833
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com