1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Check me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival, 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: on deck from some of your favorite shows, including this one, 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and also some of the best 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: podcasts in the game like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: in the world. I lived there for two years. Actually, 8 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry and 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: not having any limits on our potential largely was shaped 10 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing this 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: bill wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: to see you there. Get your tickets today at Black 14 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: Effect dot comback Slash Podcast Festival. I'm Will Lucas and 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: this is Black Tech, Green Money. Ann Samuels is founder 16 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: and managing partner at Collid Capitol, the sixty six million 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: dollar fund so Far, which is the first VC fund 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: simultaneously backed by Amazon, Alphabet and Twitter. He's also co 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: founder and served as O at Blavity, the largest global 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: black media company for millennials in gen z and afro Tech, 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: the largest black tech conference in the world. He began 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: his career as a spoken word artist before working at 23 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Bane and Co as a strategy consultant and tell A 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: Sign as a product manager. Iaran has had a successful 25 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: professional career, and I wonder how he tells the story 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: to limited partners, the people who put money into VC funds, 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: how his career as an operator signals that he might 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: win at investing their money. 29 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: I think that there's. 30 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: Many paths that people take in order to break into 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 3: venture capital. I think there's there's three primary paths that 32 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 3: people take. Which is one being a former operator, which 33 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: is which is my path and having to dig into 34 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: that a little bit. So this is either you've you 35 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 3: founded a company or you rose through the ranks to 36 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 3: become a senior operator at a company. You learned how 37 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 3: to how to do the company building fundamentals, and then 38 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: ultimately that teaches you how to identify that type of talent, 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 3: that type of support for other companies. Right, So I 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: think that's path number one, and how do people break 41 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: into venture Path number two is you go through the 42 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: investor funnel. So oftentimes people will work in investment banking, 43 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 3: work in private equity, maybe work at you know some 44 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 3: smaller venture capital shops and then worked their way up 45 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: to the larger the larger firms and then and then 46 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 3: maybe one day start their own, right, but you kind 47 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 3: of have the. 48 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: Career as an investor. 49 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: And I think number three is I think actually the 50 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: most common version of becoming a venture capital venture capital practitioner, 51 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 3: which is that you are just born rich. 52 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: And you just have So that's the most that's the 53 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: most common. 54 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: That's actually how the industry, that's how the industry got started. 55 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: The industry got started as a cottage industry where wealthy 56 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 3: people effectively just made angel investments as long shot bets 57 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: that had very low probability of success. 58 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: But if they hit, they hit super big. 59 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: And it's it's only over the last you know, twenty 60 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: to thirty years that that venture capital as an industry 61 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: has really started to solidify. And so I say that 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: because I think it's important to remember that for the 63 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 3: for the majority of the history of venture capital, this 64 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 3: was a game that that rich people played by taking 65 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: taking huge bets that were of less consequence because they 66 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 3: could they could afford to lose the money that they 67 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: were playing with. 68 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: And it's only it's only recently that that. 69 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: The that the asset class has become formalized, and so 70 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 3: uh so, if you want to become a venture capitalist, 71 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: the easiest way to do that is to just be rich, 72 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 3: uh for for those of us, for those of us 73 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: that don't have that option, I recommend one of the 74 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: former two paths, which is to be to be an 75 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: operator or to be or to be an investor. And 76 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: and my my way was was to be an operation. 77 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: So now that now that we're grounded, I had a 78 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: I had I had a I had a great career 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: path that that led me to this moment. 80 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: And you know, and I and. 81 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: I clipped from all of my experiences from from being 82 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: a spoken word artist to being a consultant, to being 83 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 3: a product manager to being a CEO. But but I 84 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 3: think that I think it's important to say for for 85 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 3: all your listeners, because there might be people that that 86 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: walk different paths, that that want to find a way 87 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 3: to get into venture and you don't have to just 88 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: do it my way. 89 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that I want to talk about that first way 90 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: for a second. The people who are on a career 91 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: trajectory and they say, you know what, I want to 92 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: find my way here. They're an operator today what are 93 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: the things along the operational journey that are necessary to 94 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: be good at this till I have learned? 95 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a good question. In 96 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 3: many ways, I'm still figuring it out myself. The hard 97 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: thing about about venture and a way that it's very 98 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 3: distinct from being an operator, is the feedback loops are 99 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 3: way way longer. So you know, when I was COO 100 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 3: at Blavity, you know, I put in a solid week's 101 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: worth Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. On Friday afternoon, you 102 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: could walk into my office and ask me straight up, Hey, Aaron, 103 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 3: did you do a good job this week? 104 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: Yes? 105 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 3: Or no? And I could look you dead in the 106 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: eye and give you an honest answer, Yeah, I crushed 107 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: it this week. This week not so well. It didn't 108 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 3: go as well. In the world of venture capital. You 109 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 3: don't have that, yeah, you know at the end of 110 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 3: the year, at the end of the week on Friday, 111 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 3: Yes me, yeah, yes me? 112 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: How well I did? I have no, I have no idea, 113 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: and I won't I won't know for as you pointed 114 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: pointed out, I won't know for seven to ten years. 115 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 3: If I'm If I'm good at this, you're making very 116 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 3: very very long. 117 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: Term, high risk bets. 118 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: And you know, the successful firms are going to be 119 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: the firms that invest in twenty to fifty company and 120 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: have one or two huge winners. Even if the rest 121 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 3: completely go to zero, it's hard to call it. And 122 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: so the things that you do on your journey as 123 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 3: an operator in theory should help you do one of 124 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: two things, which is, either help you become a better 125 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 3: picker right, help you help you pick winners, help you 126 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 3: identify the characteristics the attributes of founders, of markets, of 127 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 3: operating teams, of business model ideas that will help increase 128 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 3: the likelihood that. 129 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: You that you pick a winner. And two learning how 130 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: to support your portfolio. 131 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: The things that you do post investment, which is where 132 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: I think operators really shine, is you know, after you've 133 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 3: made the financial commitment to a company, what else can 134 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: you do? 135 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: Can you help them build their CRM? 136 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 3: Can you connect them to operational leaders, can you connect 137 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 3: them to customers, can you connect them to hires? 138 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: And that not only. 139 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 3: Will help support the poor folio company after you've invested, 140 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 3: but if companies believe that you're going to be able 141 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 3: to provide that type of support, it might make you 142 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: more attractive as a firm to begin with, which might 143 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: then help you select or help you have access to 144 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: better top of funnel for the investments that you make. 145 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: Now you've raised some really interesting questions for me. And 146 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: I've heard plenty of black founders on this podcast, and 147 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: many who are wildly successful talk about how there are 148 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: so many vcs who want to be in on their deals, 149 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: and we always we tend to because there are so 150 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: few of us. There's a growing number, but so few 151 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: still that you know, just want anybody to give them 152 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: a check. But there's a certain segment of black founders 153 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: who have checks thrown at them and they can get 154 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: they get to be selective, and so then the VC 155 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: is then ultimately trying to pitch themselves. So can you 156 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: talk about what it's like to be on both sides 157 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: of that, to where you're on the blavity side where 158 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: people want to give you money, then you're on the 159 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: VC tie where you might have to pitch yourself to 160 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: some really really interesting startups. 161 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, this this game, if anything, will, 162 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 3: will help keep you humble. 163 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: And look, I think I think that's a good thing. 164 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: Like it for in some way you're kind of always 165 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 3: you're always pitching yourself. You're always you're always selling something. 166 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, the older that I've gotten, 167 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: the more that I've realized that when you make it 168 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 3: to the top of any field, ultimately you're a seller. 169 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: You know. 170 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: I have a good friend of mine, he's a climate 171 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: scientist with a PhD from Harvard. 172 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: I ask him how he spends most of his days. 173 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 3: He spends his days right in grants, which you know, 174 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 3: it means fundraising, which means he's raising money for, you know, 175 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: to support the projects. I think that's the same thing 176 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 3: if you become a great founder, become a great investor. 177 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: At the end of the day, once you get to 178 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: the top, you're raising money, which means that you're selling yourself. 179 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: You're pitching yourself, and you're pitching yourself to as a VC, 180 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 3: you're pitching yourself to you know, your LPs to invest 181 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: in your fund, just as much as you're pitching yourself 182 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 3: to the founders that you potentially want to invest in. 183 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 3: And so what it means is that you can't take anything. 184 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 3: You can't take anything as a given, you can't take 185 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: anything for granted. Understand what your strengths are and you 186 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: need to You need to let the founders know why 187 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 3: it's going to be differentiated to receive a check from 188 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: you as opposed to you know, any other lookalike, you know, 189 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 3: small emerging manager or you know, they might be comparing 190 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 3: you to a big box shop. And then I need 191 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 3: to convince them why taking my money is better than 192 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: taking money from a twenty two billion dollar Silicon Valley, 193 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: you know based firm. 194 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. I know you're very passionate about your spoken word poetry, 195 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: and I wonder the connections you might see if you 196 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: can describe those for us from that sort of creativity 197 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: and the business creativity that you have to endure. 198 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think of time my time traveling 199 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: as a as a performance poet. For for about a 200 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 3: decade I was, I was heavily traveling around the country, 201 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: and I learned a lot about a lot about passion, 202 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: and a lot about kind of this this notion in 203 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: the in the poetry world that we we we call 204 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: speculative fiction, uh, this idea of dreaming, uh, dreaming a 205 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: better world and writing it into existence. And I think 206 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: that in many ways there are strong commonalities between my 207 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 3: favorite artists and my favorite founders in that both of 208 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: them are are dreaming a better world, identifying a way 209 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: that the world can be happier, healthier, more efficient, you know, 210 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: but improved in some way, and and then building that 211 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 3: and speaking it into existence. If you can't, if you 212 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 3: can't dream it first, then then you can't then build it. 213 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 3: And for me, that attribute of passion is something that 214 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: is probably the number one characteristic that I look for 215 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 3: in founders. I'm looking for a founder that is identified 216 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 3: a hole in the universe that they uniquely are qualified 217 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 3: to fill. And I think that that's so important. You know, 218 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 3: as we mentioned earlier in the conversation, you know, the 219 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: feedback loop is long. You know, it takes seven to 220 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 3: twelve years for a venture backed startup to get to exit. 221 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: I need to know that the founder is going to 222 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 3: be just as passionate on year seven as they are 223 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 3: on year one. And that doesn't happen if you're just 224 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 3: in it for the money. It doesn't happen if it's 225 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: just a pet project that you're doing in a classroom. 226 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 3: It only happens if you're obsessed with the idea, if 227 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 3: you're obsessed with the problem that you're trying to solve 228 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 3: and you really believe that you will make the world 229 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: a better place or at least a more interesting place 230 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 3: if you're able to execute. 231 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: You just spoke to something about you know, founders who 232 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: have you know, recognized the void and they can something 233 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: that they can uniquely feel how dialed into the details 234 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: of what that future looks like are the most successful founders, Like, 235 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: can they talk about the intricacies or just the concept? 236 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: No, No, they should be they should be really dialed in. 237 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 3: You know, I think that that the best founders that 238 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: I've seen, they can they can paint you. 239 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 2: They can paint you a. 240 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 3: Very very detailed picture of what the world will look 241 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 3: like if their product, service, business model, you know, serves 242 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 3: as a as a disruption to the status quo. 243 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: To a VC. What do you need to hear in 244 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: those details that give you the confidence say this, this lady, 245 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: this guy is going to go do it. 246 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a few things that 247 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 3: I'm looking for, so, you know, and this is true 248 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: for a lot of vcs, but you know, one of 249 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 3: the things that we first listen for is is this 250 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 3: problem a big enough problem that if the founder succeeds, 251 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: it will create a billion dollar company. You know, they 252 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: might be they might be right about the problem, and 253 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 3: they could be super passionate, you know, about it. But 254 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 3: if it's a small problem, then it doesn't necessarily return 255 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 3: enough capital for me or from my LP base for 256 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: it to move the needle. And that's that's kind of 257 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 3: where we get into the concept of is this a 258 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 3: venture backable company versus is it a small business or 259 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 3: a large business. That's a good idea, but maybe not 260 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: a great idea for a venture because we need to 261 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 3: have those scaled returns. So, you know, firstus, is this 262 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: problem a big enough problem? 263 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: You know? 264 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: The second thing that I'm usually asking is what about 265 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: this founder's background leads me to believe that they are 266 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 3: going to be able to execute on this solution. 267 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: So they might be right that it's a great problem, 268 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: and it. 269 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: Would be awesome if somebody solved it, But why do 270 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 3: I believe that you're going to be able to do it? 271 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: Have you have you been thinking about this problem for 272 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 3: the last fifteen years? Have you have you worked on 273 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 3: versions or iterations of this problem over the course of 274 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 3: your career? Have you built prototypes, test models? Do you 275 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 3: have a PhD in the subject matter, et cetera. It 276 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: doesn't have to be all of those things. But we're 277 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 3: looking for some version of what we call founder market fit, 278 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: which is, you know, do we believe that that this 279 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: founder has, you know, done the things in their career 280 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 3: to you know, to give you strong indication that they'll 281 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: be able to solve this problem. Yeah? 282 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: I would, And you know, go go ahead, no, no, 283 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: go go ahead. No. 284 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like, because I know you invest 285 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: at different levels, you know, ced pre seed, like you know, 286 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: one hundred K to the three million. I've read in 287 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: my research and I want you to speak to along 288 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: the lines that you're already on. But at how deep 289 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: are do you expecting them to be in at each stage? 290 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: So if I got to if I'm asking for one 291 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: hundred k, I'm assuming that you're not expecting as much 292 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: as you would if I was asking for three million. 293 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 3: It's a good question, and I would say, no, that 294 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 3: that's that's not true. You know, for me, the the 295 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,479 Speaker 3: the dollar value doesn't correlate the level of dialed. 296 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: In that I should see with the founder. 297 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: You know, if we're giving you money, it's more correlated 298 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: to what the stages of the business and making sure 299 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: that you know that we own a significant enough percentage 300 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: of the company to match with our portfolio construction. But 301 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 3: if you know, if we're investing, we usually. 302 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: Don't go as low as one hundred k these days. 303 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 3: But say we're investing a five hundred k check into 304 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 3: a founder, you know, that oftentimes means that the stage 305 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: of the business is such that if we invested more 306 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: than that, it would dilute the founders too much. And 307 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: so you know, we typically don't want to take you know, 308 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 3: more than twelve percent ownership with the first check. That 309 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: being said, we'll happily invest more at the next round, 310 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: you know, at a higher evaluation if the company continues 311 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: to perform well. And so you know, I would not 312 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: say that the amount of capital is correlated to you know, 313 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: to our conviction level of the founder. Rather, it's just 314 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: correlated to the stage of the business and how how 315 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: early or later, how far along the kind of business 316 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 3: trajectory the companies the company is. 317 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you spoke to something that I'd like to bring 318 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: back up, and you talked about the other value you 319 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: bring to a startup, whether that's a network, whether that's 320 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, CRM experience, et cetera. And can you speak 321 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: to holding that in one part of your mind then 322 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: this other idea which I'm a believer of, And I 323 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: remember recently hearing a big finance guide who say it 324 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: it's as hard to build a small successful business as 325 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: it is a big successful business. And so if you 326 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: think about that concept, most of us don't think that way. 327 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: They think, if I'm going to build, you know, a 328 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: one million dollar business, you know that's going to be hard, 329 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: but it's not going to be as hard as I 330 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: was trying to do one hundred million. But it's hard 331 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: as hard, you know. So it's how big do you 332 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: want to scale your heart? How much do you want 333 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: to take on? But can you speak to those concepts 334 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: of you know, what you believe you can bring to 335 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: a business and the level of which effort you have 336 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: to put in first, not as much reward on the 337 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: back much on the outside, or I might as well 338 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: put my effort towards something that could be a bigger windfall. 339 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's it's a great point, 340 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 3: and I completely wholeheartedly agree with you. Sometimes it's way 341 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 3: harder to build a small business and to build a 342 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 3: big business, and I think the reason that that is is, 343 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 3: you know, the success of the business isn't just about 344 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 3: the outputs. It's also about the inputs, right, So you know, 345 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 3: if I raise forty million dollars and I create a 346 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 3: business that is a ten million dollars a year business, 347 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 3: you know, some could say that that's successful, but other 348 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: people say, well, no, you raised forty to get to ten. 349 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 2: You know that you've lost a bunch of money doing that. 350 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 3: Versus, if I raise five million dollars and I get 351 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: to a ten million dollar annual business, I would consider 352 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: that significantly more successful. And so I think not every 353 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 3: everybody always factors in both the inputs and the outputs 354 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 3: when they're looking at things. I think that that's especially 355 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 3: important when when you kind of observe the world through 356 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 3: a racial equity lens, because you know, for the most part, 357 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 3: black founders, Latin founders, founders who are women or have 358 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 3: women on the founding team oftentimes are significantly undercapitalized relative 359 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 3: to their straight white male peers. And oftentimes they're judged 360 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: based on the same output metrics. So oftentimes they'll say, oh, 361 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 3: look at these two types of business models. They seem similar, 362 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 3: but this company is you know, generating five x the revenue. 363 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: And you know, the first thing that I often ask is, okay, 364 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: but they did they raise ten x the amount of capital? 365 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 2: Because if so, it's. 366 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 3: Actually it's actually less impressive to get where they got 367 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: and in the long run, ultimately it won't return actual 368 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 3: money for investors because investors have invested in so much 369 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 3: that business needs to not just you know, outperform their 370 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 3: peer set, it needs to outperform their peer set at 371 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 3: a multiple of the amount of dollars. 372 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: That were invested into the business. 373 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: And so I think oftentimes it's important to look at 374 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 3: what has this founder done with the resources that they 375 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: therefore do I believe that if I put more resources 376 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 3: into the business that it will continue scaling. 377 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: That's really good. And so you brought up, you know, 378 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: racial equity and these things, and it makes me think 379 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: about the landscape, the legal landscape of trying to support 380 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: black founders, women founders, LATINX founders. And even when you're 381 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: talking about venture capital, where you're talking about college admissions, 382 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: colleges can't ask what your background is anymore, you know what, 383 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: talk about your thoughts on the efforts to support black 384 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: founders intentionally with venture capital faced with the issues that 385 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: we now are presented with. 386 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, these are these are trying times, and 387 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 3: you know, it's it's hard as as someone that's worked 388 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: you know, in many ways in the black empowerment space 389 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: for the majority of my career, whether as an artist 390 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 3: or you know, with you know, with my time you know, 391 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 3: founding Blavity, we've seen the We've seen the pendulum swing 392 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: back and forth a few times. You know, I remember 393 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 3: when we when we started Glavity back in twenty fourteen. 394 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: In many ways, it was a you know. 395 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 3: It was a direct response to you know, what was 396 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 3: happening in Ferguson, you know, in response to the murder 397 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 3: of Mike Brown. And you know, then you know, there 398 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 3: was interest in supporting these types of initiatives. That interest 399 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 3: winds down and then it ramps up again with the 400 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 3: murder of George Floyd, and then again we see a 401 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 3: lot of racial equity initiatives permeate throughout corporate America and 402 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 3: the investing world in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, twenty 403 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: twenty two, and then it and now we're seeing the 404 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: pendulum swing back with a pushback against critical race theory, 405 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 3: A pushback against affirmative action. But for those of us 406 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 3: that are practitioners in the space, this is not new. 407 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: Sometimes it's in vogue to support racial equity, and sometimes 408 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 3: it's very much not in vogue. I think that the 409 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 3: important thing for founders to look at is the people 410 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 3: that have staying power, the folks that have said that 411 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 3: they care about this work and have continued. 412 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 2: To do this work whether or not it's popular. 413 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 3: And I think that you know, there are companies like 414 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 3: Blavity that you know, will support black people whether or 415 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: not it's cool to support black people. And I think 416 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 3: that there's a lot of firms that have demonstrated track 417 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 3: records in venture, you know, of investing in people of color, 418 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 3: corporations that have done this. 419 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: And I think the most important. 420 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 3: Thing to look for is look at people's track records 421 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: over a longer time horizon. Don't just say, you know, 422 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 3: do you have a new initiative or have you do 423 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 3: you have a good press release, you know where you've 424 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: made some type of dollar commitment, which, by the way, 425 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 3: many firms made dollar commitments that didn't actually execute on 426 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 3: those dollar commitments, right, So don't look at that, look 427 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 3: at the actual track record. Of work and say, okay, 428 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 3: over the last ten years, over the last twenty years, 429 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,959 Speaker 3: you know, have you you know, how many black founders 430 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: have you actually invested in, how many programs have you 431 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: actually created? What were the actual dollars that were deployed 432 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 3: versus the dollars committed? And I think that you know 433 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 3: folks rise to the top in terms of who actually 434 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 3: has a track record of supporting women and people of 435 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 3: color in this space. 436 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: There's this line of an article I read about you, 437 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: where the line is Samuels is a believer that the 438 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: best endings to a story are both surprising yet inevitable. 439 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: And I'm going to allow you to pick which you 440 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: want to talk about with just that statement alone. But 441 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: I think about how that can be directly related to 442 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: so many things. Number One, you know you talk about 443 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: black people. I believe black people ultimately find true generational 444 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: wealth and success as in our country and around the world, 445 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: we will find our way to not be the minority. 446 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: We will be the I mean that's just numbers, will 447 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: be the majority or not a minority. In less than 448 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: ten years or about eighteen years. We will find success 449 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: where we have not historically found it. People who are 450 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: gonna win. In startups and business and et cetera, you 451 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: can probably find indicators that say that person's gonna win 452 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: regardless whether or not I invest in them, because that's 453 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: a winner. So that person's gonna win. Aaron Samuels is 454 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: going to win, Jeff Nelson is going to win, Morgan 455 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: is gonna win, whether or not pick a thing. And 456 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: so talk about what you want to talk about with 457 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: just that statement, like, what do you get? What do 458 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: you derive from that statement? 459 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 2: Yeah? 460 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I think the clip that you're pulling that 461 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: from is actually where I was talking about evaluating founders 462 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 3: and helping founders tell their story to other investors. And 463 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 3: I think that when you know when you're pitching a day, 464 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 3: when you're pitching a company, I think that subtly that's 465 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 3: what moves That's what moves the needle on getting somebody 466 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 3: else to be convicted in you is be surprising yet inevitable. 467 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 3: I think if if somebody walks away from your pitch 468 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 3: as a founder and they say, oh, that called me 469 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 3: off guard, but also yeah, that's definitely gonna happen, I 470 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 3: think that that makes me more likely to invest in you, 471 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: because I believe the world is naturally going there anyways, 472 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: but you surprised me because you're going to get there first, 473 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 3: or you're gonna get there differently, or you're going to 474 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 3: get there better. Of course, I think that that's true 475 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 3: more broadly, you know, than just founder stories. I originally 476 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 3: kind of pay per clipped that expression from something that 477 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: we used to say a lot in the poetry world 478 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 3: in terms of an ending to a poem or an 479 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 3: ending to a story is surprising, get inevitable. But I 480 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: think that that's what leaves you at the end of 481 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: a presentation, at the end of a story, like the 482 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 3: end is sucked out of you a little bit. And 483 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 3: I think it's that that emotional feeling oftentimes that drives 484 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 3: a lot of investing decisions. 485 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 1: Is you talked about something in that statement there that 486 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: you know you can invest, that you know Series ABC potentially, 487 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: and you're talking about investing your seed and pre seed. 488 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: Is that ability to do because a lot of people 489 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: in the venture capital space pick one of those or 490 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: maybe two of those. But is that particularly because you 491 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: raise I mean you raised a big round. I mean 492 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: your first one of the largest black owned first time 493 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: funds of sixty six million, is that ability to invest 494 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: as such a wide category purely reflective of the amount 495 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: that you raised. 496 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 3: Not purely I mean I think I think, you know, 497 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 3: the amount that you raise has something to do with 498 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 3: your strategy, but it's not the it's not the entire thing. 499 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: I would actually, you know, flip the order. 500 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 3: We knew that we wanted to invest at the seed 501 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 3: stage first, and so then we raised a fund that 502 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 3: we thought would be appropriate for the stage that. 503 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: We wanted to invest in. You know, we we had 504 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: a proof of content fund. 505 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 3: We did thirty five companies. You know, now we're running 506 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 3: Fund one. We're going to do thirty five companies in 507 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 3: that fund. Then we're going to raise another fund, probably 508 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 3: going to do around thirty five companies again, you know. 509 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 3: And so we think that kind of playing in the 510 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: you know, sixty to one hundred million dollar fund size 511 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 3: window is appropriate given the amount of companies that we 512 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 3: want to back over the you know, three to four 513 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 3: year time horiz, then we want to invest in them. 514 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: So when you're talking about the LPs that you deal with, 515 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: and you know, there's you know, if you picked the 516 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: category that you're in of the level of VC firm 517 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: that you have, you know, let's say around one hundred 518 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: million dollars, there's a lot of them. There's what is 519 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: the LP thinking about I'm going to invest in Collide 520 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: versus ACME firm? What is the differentiating factors that they're 521 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: looking for? 522 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 2: I mean, I think they're looking for a lot of things, 523 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 2: you know. 524 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: I think most LPs are looking for person and foremost 525 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: a history of strong performance. So they're going to want 526 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 3: to know, how did your previous funds perform? Have you 527 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 3: consistently returned money to your other LPs? Outside of that, 528 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 3: oftentimes they're looking for some type of competitive edge or 529 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 3: competitive advantage. Usually that means you either have access to 530 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 3: the unique communities that they don't have access to, or 531 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 3: you have some type of expertise that makes you a 532 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 3: better selector. You know, have you spent time in an industry, 533 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 3: do you have you know, specific level of training or 534 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 3: education in a particular way of thinking. You know, but 535 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: do you know, do you have access? Are you going 536 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 3: to be a great picker? And do you have a 537 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 3: history of performance? 538 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: In that same article, they had this phrase nails call it. 539 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: You like to invest in people building generational companies and 540 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: so is there a balance between hey, this is a 541 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: just a great financial play, but it's probably not going 542 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: to be here in twenty years or we want to 543 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: be along for the long haul. 544 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And look, there's a lot of different business models 545 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: in kind of venture in the broader kind of private 546 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 3: equity space. 547 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 2: If I invested later stage, if I invested in. 548 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 3: Series D, Series E, Series F companies, you know, I 549 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 3: wanted to be along for the ride for three years 550 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 3: and then they go public and then I cash out. 551 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: That is a very different type of business model. 552 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 3: And of course, you know, there might be opportunities to 553 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 3: participate in projects like that in a one off basis, 554 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 3: but the reality is when you invest at the seed 555 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 3: stage or when you invest at the pre seed stage, 556 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 3: you're signing up to be with these companies for a 557 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: you know, seven to twelve year journey on average, sometimes longer. 558 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: You know, I know seed stage managers that. 559 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 3: Have held positions in companies for twenty years before you know, 560 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 3: before cashing out. And if you're thinking about the world 561 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 3: that way, I mean twenty years, twenty years is a generation. 562 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 3: You know, like that, you know, you could see full 563 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: turnover of team, of culture, of product even just you know, 564 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 3: think about what you were doing twenty years ago, the 565 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: world was completely was completely different. You know, we were 566 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 3: we were listening, we were listening to you know, to Nelly, 567 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: you know, performed videos on one oh six in park. 568 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: You know, we were you know, people were slapping POGs. 569 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 3: You know, Instagram didn't exist, Buying didn't exist. People were 570 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 3: playing with Tomagotchi's, you know, like like the world was 571 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: a different place. And so when I say that though, 572 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 3: just as a reminder, the founders that I'm backing today 573 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: are potentially going to be building companies that'll play in 574 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 3: a world. 575 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: Twenty years from now. 576 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 3: So if we imagine how how different we are now 577 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 3: than twenty years ago, you really taking a. 578 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: Big bet on the future. 579 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 3: And I believe that the only way to successfully invest 580 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 3: at the seed stage is to have that long view. 581 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production the Blavity Afro 582 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media, 583 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, 584 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: with additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Love Beach. 585 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis and Kate McDonald. Learn 586 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: more about my guests of other tech dis rubs an 587 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: innovators at afrotech dot Com enjoying Black Tech, Green Money, 588 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: shot U to somebody, go get your money. He's in love. 589 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: Check me out. At the annual Black Effect Podcast Festival, 590 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: happening Saturday, April twenty seventh in Atlanta. Live podcasts are 591 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: on deck from some of your favorite shows, including this one, 592 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and also some of the best 593 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: podcasts in the game like Deeply Well with Debbie Brown 594 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: and Carefully Reckless. Atlanta is one of my favorite cities 595 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: in the world. I lived there for two years. Actually, 596 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: in my worldview, seeing us successful in every industry and 597 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: I'm having any limits on our potential largely was shaved 598 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: by Atlanta. So to be there with you doing this 599 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to 600 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: build wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want 601 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: to see you there. Get your tickets today at Black 602 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: Effect dot comback Slash Podcast Festival