WEBVTT - Get the Money and Run | Who’s Your Daddy 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.080 Joe Loyer has agreed to answer our questions, so please 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:09.080 send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot fm, or leave 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:15.800 them in the comments on Spotify or Apple. Thank you hither, 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.680 It's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. You're listening to Get 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.479 the Money and Run. In this episode, episode two, we 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.400 ask the question what happens when a protector cannot protect 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:35.080 those he loves most. I find this episode, particularly part three, heartbreaking. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.720 I think you will too. To binge all seven episodes 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.400 at once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.520 on Apple Podcasts. All right over to Ben. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.280 You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.760 Money and Run there and this is episode two. Who's 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:03.320 your daddy? 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:07.560 How did you? 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.399 How did you discover this bank right here? 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:11.920 You know a lot of times what I would do 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.640 is I'd go to areas and I would just we 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:19.000 would drive around and see if there's possibilities. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:19.119 Of banks to rob. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.720 I used to spend a lot of time down the 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.760 street here at a friend's house, so I know this area. 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.520 I finally drove past this bank and I thought, hey, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.479 you know what, it's not the kind of bank I robbed, 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.640 which is on the corner because my whole thing was 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.640 I like to leave a bank. So when I'm followed, 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:38.800 people step out of the bank and immediately start swiving 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.720 in their head side to side looking for cars driving 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:43.680 around it, who are trying to get in and out 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.640 of the parking lot because they're looking for a getaway car. 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.360 Here they would see me leave the bank and not 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.800 get into a car in the parking lot where all 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.160 the cars are. That's too easy for them. So I 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.000 had to park far away. You want to get on walker, Yeah. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.560 Let's good, let's walk. Let's see what would have happened. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.840 So now you've parked your car now and now you're 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:06.640 walking to the bank. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.760 Yeah, So I get out of the car. I feel 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:09.280 like I've. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.320 Marshaled enough for my will and violence and determination and focus. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.919 So I'm gonna walk in. I'm gonna do what I do. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.360 But when I start giving delivery my spiel, I notice 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:24.120 that in the back. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.640 There's a woman who's the manager. She spots me and 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.280 she realized I'm wronging the bank. Eyes locked on me fearlessly. 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.520 I get the money I spend and I come out 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.520 the front here and I think, all right, I've done 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:41.160 my business. 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.960 So when I walk out of the bank, I start 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:44.600 walking here. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.079 I look back and the woman's over there and kind 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.400 of like hiding behind a car, and I'm like, what 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.440 the hell He's like, I'm gonna try and follow me 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.440 down the street. And this is why I don't like 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.800 this kind of setup, because my car is right down there. 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.440 She's gonna see it. So I look at her and 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.440 I basically say, like I do my finger like naw, 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:04.840 you woman, don't do this. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.160 You don't want to do this. Then again, but just like. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.079 We go on my finger at her like almost like 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.799 a skull, she don't run back in I'll turn around 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.200 and I'm like, ah fuck, I know she's gonna follow 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.399 me because she's not afraid of me. So I walked 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.280 down about halfway through this thing there, and I turn around. 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.360 Sure you know she's walking to take care's someone like 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.200 a cartoon where she's like doing on once on. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.360 Her tiptoe slowly like she's right here. 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.640 So now I aggressively look back and I'm like I 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.760 pointed her really aggressively, like you no go back, and 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:43.200 she doesn't move. So I just turn around and start 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.760 walking faster, and about three steps I immediately pivot and 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.520 I start running right at her, and I start reaching 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.440 into my coat and her eyes again, We're like cartoon turner, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.840 and I run out of her hair, and she just 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.440 looked at me and just fun and just like started 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:02.720 running as fast as she could. 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.640 She was scared. Now now I got her. I'm running 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.720 full speed of her, reaching into my pocket. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.600 As soon as she spends and starts running, I take 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.840 two more steps and then pivot and run straight from 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:13.320 my car. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.080 I have ten steps before she's even gonna stop to 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.120 turn around. She's so scared. I got her scared, so. 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.440 I immediately go to my car, jump in and make 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.520 a U turn that way. That woman I always like, man, 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.800 I like admire that woman. There's something she has some gumption. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.080 I hope that's in the DNA, man, because that shit 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:34.479 that bodes well for her family. 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.600 Part one the Good Life. 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:58.760 So after the last episode, I wanted to get some 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.719 other perspectives on young Joe's family life and childhood. Thought 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.360 i'd play some of those interviews. 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.880 Joe was cute as a cute as a bug the kid. 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.159 He was a talkative, He's very charismatic, giving as a 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:19.280 little kid, and bright, really bright, and you could tell 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.360 he was already a going to be a leader by 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.000 the time he's four and five. The kids would follow him. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.560 He wouldn't follow anybody. He was the one that took 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.240 the leader and everything. And I would observe that, and 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.480 I said, this kid is going to be a leader. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:35.760 This kid has a mind of his own. 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:43.880 This is Joe's dad, Joe Loyr. There was a time 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.480 before all the abuse that we heard about in the 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.080 last episode. Stuff we're going to be unpacking for the 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.160 next several episodes, and joe'sdad is going to sound like 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.760 a villain. Both Joe's are going to sound like villains 0:05:55.760 --> 0:06:02.800 before we're done. But they're not just villains. So before 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.680 we get into all the ins and outs, victims and assailants, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.800 terrors and terrorized, I want to mark this time, the 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:15.560 time before before the wife and mother died, before things 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.240 went too far, when young just Sor was a new 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.560 dad with all the optimism and promise provided by his 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.440 new family, and young Joe Junior was cute and smart 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.799 and full of potential and hope for the future. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:31.359 They both were. 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.080 One day I asked, I used to ask him. He'd 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.000 be playing around and I'd be in the kitchen doing it, reading, studying, learning, 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.960 and i'd I need to come running. The little guy. Okay, 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.120 he was just five. So he comes into the kitchen. Yes, daddy, Hey, 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.880 you love me? Yes, I love you a lot. I 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:51.560 love you a lot. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.680 How much you loved me? I love you. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:55.200 He's learning his numbers, right. 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:56.960 I love you a hundred. I love you a hundred, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:58.720 a lot of hundreds. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.960 And one day he came home. He looks at me, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:05.880 he says, Daddy, did you know that numbers never end? 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.840 I said, yes, I know that. So a few days 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.640 later and knew near the routine. He comes in there 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.240 and I said, how much you love daddy? This time 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.240 he doesn't just answer quickly. He thinks about it. He 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.440 says the most sweet things for a kid. He says, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:29.080 I love you more than counting goes. I love you 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:36.920 more than counting goes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Joe was everything 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.360 you could ever want, I could ever want in a child. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:45.760 He was so incredibly wonderful. I remember that I would 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.920 come in, he'd hear the door knocking, and he'd sitting 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.400 on his he'd be sitting on his high chair and 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.640 he was just you know, sitting there. And then I 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.920 poked my head and go pick a booh, and he'd 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:03.640 go crazy hitting it, laughing, and just really kind of 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:08.160 felt so great, so terrific. That's an image that's here. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:14.720 And he grew up and he was just so incredibly wonderful. 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.760 I just I was so proud of him. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.520 This is Joe's younger brother, Paul. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.040 And one of the things and God blessed him for this. 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:28.800 One of the things that my mother and my father 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.960 did was they Now that I think about it, maybe 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.439 that's not a good thing, but they gave Joe the responsibility. 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.760 And you know, as I imagine that, you know, having 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.840 a two year old responsibility, giving the two year old 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.360 some responsibility, but they told him it was his job 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:45.959 to kind of like protect me because he was the 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.320 older brother, and Joe, you know, being Joe, kind of 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.200 understood like he had this role in my life. Certainly 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.400 growing up. He he was very much a protector of me. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.600 I was the shy kid who hung out with his brother. 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.120 Because we moved around a lot, there was always a 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.680 new set of friends, there was always a new set 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.400 of circumstances, and Joe was much more advanced in interacting 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.199 in these situations than I was I was much more insecure. 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.120 I was much more afraid, and Joe knew that. And 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.640 Joe would always let me tag along because he was 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.319 my brother. Joe allowed me into his world. And because 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.439 he allowed me into his world, people gave me that respect. 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.559 And you know, I remember I didn't have friends. They 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:38.080 were always Joe's friends. Now years later, even into high school, 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.319 the friends that I had weren't always my age. They 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.679 were the friends that Joe would make. And then I 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.599 would tag along and become Joe's friends, and then we 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.520 would all be, you know, hanging out and you know, 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.840 lo and behold. I would get friends through, like through 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.680 that avenue, but it was always because of Joe. And 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.520 I remember when I first started learning guitar. I was horrible. 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.440 I was horrible. Man. I look back and I was like, 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.959 I don't even know why. I was like like I 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.000 picked up that instrument, but I was like, you know, 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.600 I was so brand new a guitar, and Joe was said, Hey, 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.720 I'm gonna go to this Bible study tonight, and and 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:17.720 I would tell you, hey, can I bring my guitar 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.800 and would be yeah, yeah, bon man, like it's cool, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.480 you know, maybe you could play in front of people 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.400 and stuff like that, and you know where nobody in 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:32.720 my family ever would give me that credibility. Joe always 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.520 gave that credibility to me. But you know, as long 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:36.959 as I knew that it was cool with Joe, that 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:38.840 it was cool that I was, that I was all right, 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.600 you know, but that's still Those are the types of 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.599 things where I can't really articulate, like say, hey, you know, 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.880 Joe would come over and you know, rubber stat me 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.960 and say, this is my brother, He's cool. Lah la lah. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.520 These are just the things that emotionally that I knew 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.280 because that's the world that I lived in, was the 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.800 emotional world. And I lived in a world of of 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.520 you know, like am I okay? Am I not okay? Emotionally? 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.000 So I lived in that world and Joe always made 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:08.000 sure that I felt okay. 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.360 This is Anne Hefernan. She was a friend of Joe's 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.360 when he was robbing banks. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.320 Joe he knows how to make people love him and 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:24.360 he knows how to use language. Some people might feel 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.679 manipulated by that, but I don't mind being manipulated because 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.959 I don't mind it. I totally got something out of it. 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.680 I mean Joe changed my life. Joe wasn't like anyone 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:42.640 I had ever met before, and I was this good 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.880 girl who didn't necessarily want to be a good girl. 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:51.160 And so when a hot Mexican bank robber comes to 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:58.080 work in your restaurant and you perk up. Joe came 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:03.160 in and he's so full of life, super dynamic, super 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:08.200 self assured, and he paid attention to me, and. 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:09.079 I like that. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:16.520 He just was super jovial, like super super up, super funny. Joe. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.200 He loves women, so if you're working in a restaurant, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:24.320 you're surrounded by women generally, right. But also, if I 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.800 remember correctly, I'm pretty sure he held a knife to 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.440 someone in the freezer. Maybe someone had said something to 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.120 his girlfriend or so. There was also this rogue kind 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.920 of piece of him that made him even that much 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:46.520 more interesting. We started talking and he liked that I 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:51.480 knew books, and then he was really well read, so 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:58.640 he would start quoting from Nietzsche and the whole time, 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.000 I'm like, be my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my boyfriend, my boyfriend. 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.920 Right, but you know he has this girlfriend. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:06.480 I'm like, I'm going to be his girlfriend. I'm going 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:11.520 to be going to be my boyfriend, my friend. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.640 The one time I remember the most was the time 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.600 when we went to the pantry after work and he 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.880 slid this envelope across from me and he said, this 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.559 is who I am. And I opened it up and 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.200 it was this piece of paper. It was his handwriting, 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.719 and it said something like so he was trying to 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:33.439 tell a story. The idea was he was trying to 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.559 create a dialogue. And I felt so honored at that moment, 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.280 and he gave it to me because I felt like 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.079 he was really sharing himself with me. And so the 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.360 most wonderful thing that can happen in a relationship is 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:51.000 when someone hands you their soul, Like there was a 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:56.840 glimpse into the truth. And then there was We had 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.920 a Christmas party. Some of the busboy were flirting with me, 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.400 and Joe came and he just like swept me up 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.079 and he took me out of that party and then 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.160 we went back to my place and for that night 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.000 I was his girlfriend. So I was living in North 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.840 Hollywood over this bookie, this bookie's house, and I was 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:20.200 living in the upstairs apartment and Joe came over and 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.400 we're walking up the stairs and then we put on 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.800 Peter Gabriel. I think in your eyes and we're dancing, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:34.000 and I just thought that, I know, that was so beautiful. 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.760 And then and then we got naked. 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:49.600 We'll be right back. 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.280 Part two, Troublemaker. 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.200 I don't think I saw, oh, I want a track 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.040 to be a criminal. This is how you behave as 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.640 a criminal. In fact, when I looked around and I 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.360 saw guys that were these young little trollos, I was 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.440 like those guys on a track to go to prison. 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:21.080 Those guys are already like using drugs and you know, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.800 carrying weapons. What I was doing was just stupid, sloppy suffering, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.160 like I was just messing up. I felt this strong 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.560 sense of entitlement and I wanted to take shit right. So, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:44.200 for example, I saw something, I wanted it to belong 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.840 to somebody I cared about, and I didn't give a fuck. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.080 I had to go get it. Like that is. 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.920 Already showing you I was gonna be a guy who's 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:52.640 get out of my way. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:54.280 If I wants something, I'm gonna go get it. If 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.560 there's somebody who loves me, cares for me, whatever, whatever, 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:57.880 I don't give a fuck. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.120 I need to go get it. And your incident to 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:05.560 in my life. In my imagination, just people were objects. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.880 When I would later become a bank robber and I 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.480 would walk in to these towers, I didn't see them 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.640 as human beings. I've said it before, when I walked 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.720 in there with the rage that I had, they were 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.080 chess pieces on a board. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:19.960 They just needed to move. 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.400 I didn't care anything about their family, their futures, their goals, 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.000 their aspirations, their dreams, their resentments. I didn't care anything 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:34.760 that made them human. It was a confusing, desperate, fearful 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.240 time for me. And my dad has a you know, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.200 a ministry, and I'm getting beat in the week. But 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.480 then on Sunday, you know, all these Christians are like, 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.840 all this man's the greatest guy on earth and this 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:50.360 is actually all of this is the stew that's turning 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.640 into rage. 0:16:58.440 --> 0:16:59.800 Here's Joe's brother Paul. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.240 It was, it was. It was a weird time, you know, 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.280 it was a really weird time that those years. You know, Yeah, 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:14.359 this difficult story too. Yeah, I'm gonna whether this one. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.800 I'm gonna whether this one. But this is a difficult 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.080 story for me that it's one of the things that 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:24.320 is a really defining moment in my life. I'm gonna 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.840 whether this one again. I don't know what day of 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:29.600 the week or anything like that, but I know that 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.439 I was washing dishes and I and I know that 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.359 I rarely washed dishes at the time. Like I was like, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.359 we know, you have certain roles when you were a 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.840 little kids, and you know, I was always the dryer. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.800 I was never the washer. I was always the dryer. 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.000 Joe was always the washer. I was always the dryer. 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.200 But this particular time, you know, my dad yelled at us, 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.520 and you know, I was again, I was always I 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.159 was always moved by fear. So I automatically went to 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.240 the washer and I started washing dishes. And I was 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.480 nervous and I was just like this this bag of 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.960 nerves and so I'm missed. And I was not a 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.240 very good washer. But you know, again, I'm fourteen years old, 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:08.960 thirteen and a half probably at the time. And my 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.520 dad ended up going to the to the dishes that 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.000 I had washed, and he picked up a few and 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.480 you know, obviously I was deficient in my washing capabilities, 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.200 and he got upset and he started yelling at me. 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.840 And he punched my brother in the rib in the 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.280 back of the ribs, grabs my brother by, pounces on him, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.159 grabs by the back of my hair, and starts dunking 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:32.760 his head in the soapy dishwater. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.240 He stuck my head under the hot water, the scalding water, 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.840 and Joe was sitting there rinsing the dishes, and he 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.800 was just appalled at what it was a cream. 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:51.360 And I'm paralyzed with fear, holding the plate, looking at him, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:53.320 scared to death. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:57.240 Right because my dad started putting my face into the water, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.000 and what I did was just automatically turned my head. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.320 And when I turned my head, I think I turned 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:11.399 my head to Joe, so our eyes met and for 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:18.240 a split second there, Joe could see the fear, and 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.320 it was one of those just one of those really 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.280 poignant times in my life where I just had eye 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.400 contact with Joe and Joe knew that I was afraid 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:35.280 and Joe couldn't protect me. Joe wanted to protect me, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:43.040 but he couldn't. And my dad is holding my head underwater. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.080 He lifts my face back up after a few seconds 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.360 that he just gets right up to my face, man, 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.040 right up to my face, and he says, you know, 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.560 he says, you know, you should have died instead of 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:53.920 your mother. 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.480 He lifts Paul's head on and he says, the words 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:06.439 are just just I mean, you should have died instead 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:06.920 of your mother. 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.800 Thirteen and a half, fourteen. You know, it's one of 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.840 those defining moments in my life that it's just really 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:27.400 really it's just really really sad to remember it. It's 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.240 really sad to discuss it. But I know that it's 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.760 not who I am. I know it's not true. I 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:40.600 know that I've resolved and reconciled it. I'm you know, 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:41.439 I'm a good person. 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:42.679 I try to, you know. 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:48.160 I mean, like that's I'm a survivor of abuse and 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.640 I can't believe that that happened to me. But it did, 0:20:53.800 --> 0:21:00.280 and it's still still hurts, you know, it's still earth. 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.600 It's something that will always hurt. It's something that's really 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:10.119 difficult for me to reconcile. But you know, I'm not 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.239 that little boy anymore, and I'm a lot stronger. I'm 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:14.560 a lot stronger. 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.680 It is the worst memory in my life, and I 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.320 remember that night thinking I want to die. I just 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.080 want to die one because I had always been this 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.119 brave kid who protected my brother, and that day I 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.280 could not do. And I was haunted by my brother's 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.879 face and water coming out of his nose and his 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:44.040 eyes a supplication looking at me like just terrified, and 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.119 I wanted to die. I wanted It was seriously like suicides, 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.480 take me, Jesus christ Man. I don't want to even 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:53.840 be here. I cannot live with my cowardice. I confronted 0:21:53.920 --> 0:22:02.800 cowardice that day. And here's the thing. I was smart. 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.440 I was intense. I had this aggression, and I felt 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.960 my heart was big and muscular, and even though I 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.680 was getting beat down, I felt like I was made 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.800 to be bigger than this. Right, this is what's happening 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:18.840 to me now. But one day I'm gonna be blof. 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.000 And that's why this was so crushing to me, because 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:29.720 I'm sitting there and I feel pathetic. I feel terrible, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.119 And I started thinking, oh shit, that dude wants to 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:34.200 kill us. He wants one of them, yes, certainly wishes 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:38.080 my brother hadn't lived. He wants my brother dead. What 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:52.160 about me? We're in Alhambra. I graduated from Ahamborough High 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.800 School actually, but we're in al Hambro eleventh grade. February 0:22:57.640 --> 0:22:59.640 February's the worst life for my day of a month 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.880 of my life, every bad shit that I were having 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:06.760 in my mother's death. This event February sucks for me. 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:14.720 It was February and my dad has a girlfriend who 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.480 I like, and I one day she takes us to Sizzler. 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.040 That's what I mean. She was cool. She took us 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.280 a Sizzler. And in those days, sister was the bomb man, 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.040 like you know, steak house and everything. My sister. One thing, 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.560 I've become a connoisseur of knives. I like knives. Sister 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:32.960 has great knives. And I remember we were talking to 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.960 her and I tell her that she needs to be 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.720 my dad. My dad's brutal bates us. He's a fraud. 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:49.560 And I tell her these stories of abuse because I 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:53.720 want her to know that super dramatic, the terrible things 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:58.560 he does to us. But in telling those stories, I 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:02.600 realized I really made my of look soft ass, weak 0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:08.840 and pathetic and in a in a moment of peak 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:11.760 and you know, kind of like quiet humiliation, I just 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:14.600 pick up the steak knife and in fact, you know, 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.199 so saddened, biopathetic. I made myself sound. I pick up 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.240 the knife, I claim the knife, I I I speak 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.240 what I'm gonna do the next time he says, I'm 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:28.919 gonna stab him in the neck. Next time he hits it, 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:31.840 I'm just gonna stab him the neck. Did you say that? 0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:35.160