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Speaker 1: We shot for fifty nights in rain.

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Speaker 2: Most times we were outside. Kind of miserable to make,

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Speaker 2: but it holds its own and it is a remarkable film.

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Speaker 2: I like any cut without the voiceover.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 3: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, July thirtieth, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co

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Speaker 3: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in La.

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Speaker 3: He's in New York. Variety has reporters around the world

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Speaker 3: covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode, we'll talk

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Speaker 3: with senior entertainment writer Angelie Jackson on her cover story

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Speaker 3: with none other than Harrison Ford. It's a fantastic read,

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Speaker 3: published today in print and online. She shares a lot

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Speaker 3: lot of observations that add insight to her portrait of

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Speaker 3: this incredible movie star. After that, business editor Todd Spangler

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Speaker 3: catches us up on the status of the cable TV

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Speaker 3: divorces that are in progress at NBCUniversal and Warner Brothers Discovery.

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Speaker 3: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 3: headlines just in this morning that you need to know.

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Speaker 3: Big congrats to Ted Danson and Mary Stein Virgin The

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Speaker 3: Television Academy will honor the couple with its Bob Hope

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Speaker 3: Humanitarian Award. It'll be presented at the Emmy Awards on

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Speaker 3: September fourteenth. Together and separately, they are national Treasures. The

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Speaker 3: debut of Adam Sandler's Happy gilmour Io logged record viewership

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Speaker 3: for Netflix. The sequel log nearly fifty million views on

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Speaker 3: its opening weekend, and just like Adam Sandler, Jane Austen

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Speaker 3: has still got it. Netflix unveiled the first look at

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Speaker 3: its Pride and Prejudice limited series adaptation, and based on

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Speaker 3: the number of people who flock to Variety dot Com

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Speaker 3: to look at that picture, there is a lot of

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Speaker 3: anticipation for this British production, and because seemingly everything is

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Speaker 3: fodder for limited series, there are rumblings that Stars and

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Speaker 3: Lionsgate TV are working on a project revolving the gambling

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Speaker 3: scandal that sneered sho Hey Otani last year. It emerged

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Speaker 3: that the longtime interpreter for the Japanese Dodger Superstar had

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Speaker 3: embezzled some seventeen million from Otani to support his gambling habit.

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Speaker 3: Now we turn to conversations with variety journalists about news

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Speaker 3: and trends in show business. Here's Angelique Jackson talking about

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Speaker 3: her very big get a sit down with Harrison Ford.

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Speaker 3: That was Ford you heard in the cold open to

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Speaker 3: this episode talking about his experience making the original Blade Runner.

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Speaker 3: Angelique Jackson, thank you for joining me. I am so

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Speaker 3: excited to talk to you for our cover story segment

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Speaker 3: this week.

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Speaker 4: It was truly an honor and a privilege.

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Speaker 3: Privilege is a good word. You had the privilege of

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Speaker 3: sitting down with none other than Harrison Ford or a

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Speaker 3: wide ranging career spanning interview on the occasion of his

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Speaker 3: first ever Ammy nomination. Angelique, tell me everything. What is

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Speaker 3: Harrison Ford like at this moment in his life?

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Speaker 5: I will say that walking into the Apple offices in

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Speaker 5: Culver City and finding Harrison Ford in a tuxedo at

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Speaker 5: eleven o'clock in the morning on a Monday really is

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Speaker 5: quite the way to start off a week. He's so

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Speaker 5: often to get a chance to see legends like that. Ever, really,

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Speaker 5: what I will say is really interesting was that it

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Speaker 5: kind of was like Clark Kent turning into Superman a

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Speaker 5: little bit, because Harrison walked in with a cup of

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Speaker 5: black coffee in hand to wearing this like olive green sweater,

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Speaker 5: his glasses, and then next thing you know, he's in

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Speaker 5: this tuxedo and becomes Harrison Ford as soon as that

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Speaker 5: camera was on him. Every single take was of movie

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Speaker 5: star quality. Being able to talk broadly about his career

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Speaker 5: really appeals to him right now. Obviously he is at

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Speaker 5: this point of his seventy plus year on screen career

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Speaker 5: where there's a lot to look back on, but oftentimes

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Speaker 5: he's focused on talking about the big hits, so Star Wars.

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Speaker 4: Indiana Jones.

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Speaker 5: Maybe he'll get to talk about Blade Runner in large

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Speaker 5: part because he played that role again, but he rarely

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Speaker 5: gets a chance to, you know, play the deep cuts.

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Speaker 5: He rarely gets a chance to talk about Witness or

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Speaker 5: some of his earlier roles like American Graffiti or Apocalypse Now.

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Speaker 5: So he seemed to have a lot of fun with

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Speaker 5: the idea of looking back on it all. But something

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Speaker 5: that really struck me just in general was something that

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Speaker 5: he said about acting and from the very beginning when

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Speaker 5: he was a college student and decided this is what

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Speaker 5: he wanted to be. The thing that he loved about

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Speaker 5: it was that it actually allowed him to hide where

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Speaker 5: other people they really felt like they were being their full,

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Speaker 5: you know, true selves by being actors. Acting allowed him

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Speaker 5: the opportunity to kind of hide himself in parts of

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Speaker 5: these characters. He is never really like playing Harrison Ford,

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Speaker 5: and he was very specific about that.

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Speaker 4: You know, Paul in Shrinking is not Harrison.

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Speaker 5: There are little parts of him that are in these characters,

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Speaker 5: but he actually kind of uses this opportunity to create

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Speaker 5: a little bit of distance between himself and the people

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Speaker 5: he's embodying.

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Speaker 3: He's always juggled multiple major franchises, so he's never completely pigeonholed.

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Speaker 3: He's been Indiana Jones, yes, but he'll also be doing

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Speaker 3: something very different in another venue. For the uninitiated, explain

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Speaker 3: Know Your Lines and explain how it went, because it

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Speaker 3: is a bit of a game, and it sounds like

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Speaker 3: the game loosened him up for you.

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Speaker 5: I did appreciate just how game Harrison was to dive

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Speaker 5: into this. So Know Their Lines is this game that

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Speaker 5: we play where we give the subject a line from

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Speaker 5: a movie they were in.

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Speaker 4: They're supposed to.

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Speaker 5: Guess what the movie is and then give a couple

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Speaker 5: of recollections about the project. Sometimes it's a very obvious line.

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Speaker 5: I mean, one of, honestly two of the most iconic

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Speaker 5: words in cinema. I know Harrison Ford knows that he

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Speaker 5: said that as Han Solo in Star Wars The Empire

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Speaker 5: Strikes Back, in large part because he had lived that

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Speaker 5: line and it made history himself.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you're trying to make it too easy for me.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher said to me, I love you, and I

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Speaker 1: was supposed to say I love you too, And I

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Speaker 1: thought that was a little un Han solo ish. I

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Speaker 1: thought I was a little banal, so I said, no.

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Speaker 5: I love you.

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Speaker 6: I know.

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Speaker 5: But then when you give him one like the line

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Speaker 5: that we chose from Witness, he needed a few hints

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Speaker 5: to get there to figure out which one it was.

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Speaker 4: He even joked, He's like, are you sure I said that?

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Speaker 5: And because of course we had watched the movie rather

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Speaker 5: like the night before, I could confirm you did, in

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Speaker 5: fact say this line.

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Speaker 3: If you're gonna play know your lines with Harrison Ford,

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Speaker 3: you better have done your homework.

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Speaker 5: Hey, then to that, and we also got to have

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Speaker 5: lots of fun with moments like we talk about Blade Runner.

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Speaker 4: He talked about how.

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Speaker 5: Difficult it was to shoot the first movie, but how

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Speaker 5: much fun he had shooting the second movie, including when,

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Speaker 5: of course he famously punched Ryan Gosling in the face

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Speaker 5: on accident, so we got to have a little bit

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Speaker 5: of fun there.

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Speaker 3: I also appreciated that you drew him out. American Graffiti

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Speaker 3: is a great example he intersected with that very very

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Speaker 3: fertile time in la when you had George Lucas, Steven Spielberg,

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Speaker 3: Francis Ford, Coppola, John Millius, like this world of directors

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Speaker 3: that were just coming into their own and they were

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Speaker 3: going to define movie making in the seventies and eighties.

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Speaker 3: And I just love that you got him to reflect

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Speaker 3: on being part of that moment. Was there a point

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Speaker 3: when the conversation took a turn that surprised you?

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Speaker 5: Perhaps what was the most surprising about him was that

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Speaker 5: there was a difference between our video interview and the

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Speaker 5: print interview.

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Speaker 4: He obviously is a bit more gregarious on camera.

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Speaker 5: This is someone that is truly, you know, one of

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Speaker 5: our great faces of cinema. But then when we were

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Speaker 5: sitting down, he's a very very thoughtful interviewee. He really

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Speaker 5: takes his time to think out and really listen to

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Speaker 5: your questions. I mean, that's it's not a surprise, he's

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Speaker 5: a respectful subject. But I think it's more of a

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Speaker 5: surprise just how it's really thoughtful. Each and every response

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Speaker 5: is whether it be short or long. If he's just

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Speaker 5: going to tell you no, he's not doing something, there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of thought between why he's saying that and

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Speaker 5: what he's choosing to say there.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned that he liked acting because it gave him

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Speaker 3: a place to hide, and I thought it was very

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Speaker 3: interesting last year that he made the very bold decision

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Speaker 3: to go on camera and thisss Harrison Ford give his

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Speaker 3: full throated endorsement to Kamala Harris with some real urgency.

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Speaker 3: That seemed to be a departure for him. What was

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Speaker 3: your sense in talking to him about his decision to

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Speaker 3: endorse Kamala in that very public way, and whether he's

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Speaker 3: felt any repercussions from that.

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Speaker 5: His initial response to the question of how he feels

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Speaker 5: about making that video now, he gave me one word

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Speaker 5: as the response.

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Speaker 3: Fine.

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Speaker 4: I think there was also.

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Speaker 5: Something to be said of the idea, and he gets

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Speaker 5: into it later in the answer that he did what

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Speaker 5: he felt was right.

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Speaker 4: In the moment.

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Speaker 3: Angelique, I want to commend you. You did not have

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Speaker 3: a lot of time to prepare for this, and boy

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Speaker 3: did you knock it out of the park. For us folks,

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Speaker 3: you've got to find it online, get your print edition.

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Speaker 3: It's published Wednesday. I will not spoil it, but I

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Speaker 3: loved your last question and I loved his answer.

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Speaker 5: I loved having the opportunity and especially because shrinking is

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Speaker 5: so much fun.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: These days in TV, it's hard to tell the players

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Speaker 3: without a scorecard. Here Todd Spangler catches us up on

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Speaker 3: all that is happening with Versant, the cable channel spin

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Speaker 3: off of NBC Universal and Discovery Global, which will be

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Speaker 3: the home of CNNTNT, TBS, Discovery Food Network, HGTV, and

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Speaker 3: other linear channels that had been part of Warner Brothers Discovery.

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Speaker 3: All of the movement is a big sign of where

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Speaker 3: the money is and isn't going in PayTV. Todd Spangler,

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Speaker 3: thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 6: Hello.

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Speaker 3: The assignment here is to step back and see the

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Speaker 3: forest for the trees. And as we know, there are

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Speaker 3: two very similar processes going on right now for NBC

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Speaker 3: Universal and for Warner Brothers Discovery. Both companies are in

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Speaker 3: the process of separating out from most of their traditional

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Speaker 3: linear cable channels. This really gives us almost like a

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Speaker 3: Petri dish of looking at where the television business is,

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Speaker 3: where the biggest companies see the opportunity. Todd, You've been

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Speaker 3: covering every inch of this. What you've covered on this

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Speaker 3: process told you about the dynamics of the television business

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 6: Other than the logistics of actually making this separation, which

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Speaker 6: are not insignificant, the challenges are what really has the

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Speaker 6: future for each of these independent companies. They want to

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Speaker 6: tell investors that there is a potential growth play here.

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Speaker 6: It will give them the freedom to make some strategic decisions.

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Speaker 6: Potentially some strategic m and A. We might see a

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Speaker 6: recommodation of the companies that are in space and try

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Speaker 6: to get a more diversified revenue stream. But that's really

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Speaker 6: the challenges is like how do you diversify from the

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Speaker 6: melting ice cube that is PayTV, which is really the

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Speaker 6: bulk of their revenue.

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Speaker 3: We've been shouting this now for almost a decade, but

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Speaker 3: the erosion of cable earnings is going to really change Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: And I would say here in twenty twenty five, we

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Speaker 3: are in the thick of that yep, here it is.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about the practical concerns about separating such a

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Speaker 3: big chunk of the company like NBC Universal, USA Network,

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Speaker 3: sci Fi, MSNBC, CNBC. These are not insignificant brands under

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Speaker 3: that umbrella, and so it's everything from the biggest picture

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Speaker 3: of who's going to be the CEO to where is

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Speaker 3: everybody going to sit? Catch us up on kind of

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Speaker 3: the practicalities of NBC Universal's spinoff, which is expected to

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Speaker 3: be completed by years end if I'm not mistaken.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. They're aiming for the end of twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty five. So they picked some office space they're going

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Speaker 6: to move out of Thirty Rock, although you know CNBC

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Speaker 6: was already in New Jersey a big operation over there.

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Speaker 6: It's essentially like you've got dynergies in doing something like

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Speaker 6: this where you've got to replicate the infrastructure that has

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Speaker 6: supported the merged companies. So you need new HR department,

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Speaker 6: you need to staff up your finance department, and so

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Speaker 6: you know, just as an example that you needed new CFO.

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Speaker 6: They picked some of those people and they've hired now

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Speaker 6: Tom Rogers, as you know from the NBC Cable days

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Speaker 6: in the earliest cable days. He helped launch MSNBC and CNBC,

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Speaker 6: so they brought him on as a senior advisor to

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Speaker 6: help steer them into their new scannon. As it were.

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Speaker 3: When I saw that Tom Rogers News, I thought they

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Speaker 3: were definitely hiring Tom for his rolodex as somebody who

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Speaker 3: launched some very foundational cable channels. He's still got a

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Speaker 3: lot of pull in that world. It seems like, as

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Speaker 3: you say, reverse synergies, a little bit of a ray

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Speaker 3: of hope in hiring for mid level, white collar TV

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Speaker 3: executives because it has been a blood bath of layoffs

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Speaker 3: in this area the last couple of years. So it

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Speaker 3: is interesting to see people emerge like Rebecca Campbell, formerly

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Speaker 3: a senior person in Disney TV and Disney International, is

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Speaker 3: on the board of Versus. So just when it seemed

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Speaker 3: like hiring was pretty bleak, there is a movement. They

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Speaker 3: have some real leadership challenges because by definition, they're kind

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Speaker 3: of in a grow or die from day one situation.

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Speaker 6: It's not that the business is losing money. It's profitable, right,

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Speaker 6: it's just not growing as fast as it had been.

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Speaker 6: And the new streaming era, basically you don't see those

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Speaker 6: thirty forty percent margins that used saw on the heyday

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Speaker 6: of cable TV. So it's a different financial profile. And

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Speaker 6: that's part of the thesis here, is that you're going

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Speaker 6: to present a company that has a certain financial growth aspect,

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Speaker 6: and for certain class investors that's great. It's going to

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Speaker 6: produce consistent profits, but it's going to shrink unless they

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Speaker 6: find some other way to either recombine with other cable

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Speaker 6: networks or find another way to get into the larger

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Speaker 6: media ecosystem. But yeah, on day one, for these companies,

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Speaker 6: the goal is going to to make sure you're running

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Speaker 6: a tight ship and got all of the processes and

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Speaker 6: people that you need to keep these things going, and

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Speaker 6: that the wheelstone fall off as these separations happen.

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Speaker 3: It'll be interesting to see what comes from these companies

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Speaker 3: because there's a definite lack of pizazz around traditional cable,

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Speaker 3: so they're going to have to do something. And how

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Speaker 3: with that economic base, how do you compete with let's

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Speaker 3: say Disney and FX doing Alien Earth that cost a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of money. I know these are unanswerable questions,

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Speaker 3: but very interesting to watch anything else. In particular, Todd

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Speaker 3: that you're watching for in this process that you think

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Speaker 3: will be telling about the future of both of these

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Speaker 3: spinoff companies.

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Speaker 6: One wild card to keep an eye on is what

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Speaker 6: sort of regulatory hoops may be introduced here. I don't

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Speaker 6: think Wherber's Discovery or in DC Universal are expecting any

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Speaker 6: serious regulatory problems here, but we don't really know how

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Speaker 6: that'll shake out just yet.

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Speaker 3: As we know, these are highly unprecedented times right now

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Speaker 3: in Washington. So that's a very good note of caution. Well, Todd,

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Speaker 3: thank you as ever for tracking all these moves day

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Speaker 3: by day and giving us the big picture too. Appreciate it.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: As we close out today's episode, here are a few

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Speaker 3: things we're watching for. The Director's Guild of America has

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Speaker 3: set the negotiating committee for its upcoming contract talks covering broadcast,

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Speaker 3: network news, sports operations, and local broadcasting. At this point,

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Speaker 3: we're probably only weeks away from the first stirrings of

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Speaker 3: activity from unions on the broader film and TV negotiations

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Speaker 3: to happen next year. Bradley Cooper's latest directorial effort is

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Speaker 3: This Thing On, has been set as the closing night

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Speaker 3: film for the New York Film Festival on October tenth.

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Speaker 3: The Searchlight Picture, described as a dramatic comedy, stars Will

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Speaker 3: Arnett and Laura Dern. Comcast reports its second quarter earnings

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Speaker 3: on Thursday. We'll be on it before the sun comes

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Speaker 3: up in La before we go. Congrats to Flora Kelly.

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Speaker 3: She's been promoted to Senior VP of ESPN Research. She's

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Speaker 3: been with the Worldwide Leader since two thousand and six.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. This episode was written and reported by

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Speaker 3: me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Angelie Jackson and Todd Spangler.

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Speaker 3: It was edited by Aaron Greenwald Stick's Nick's hick Picks.

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Speaker 3: Please leave us a review with the podcast platform of

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Speaker 3: your choice, and please tune in tomorrow for another episode

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Speaker 3: of Daily Variety.

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Speaker 2: I was under contract to Columbia Pictures at the time

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Speaker 2: for one hundred and fifty dollars a week and all

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Speaker 2: the respect that that implies. I was called into the

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Speaker 2: office of the head of the new talent program and

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Speaker 2: he told me that I had no future in the business,

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Speaker 2: which is okay. You wanted me to change my name.

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Speaker 2: We thought that Harrison Ford was too pretentious a name

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Speaker 2: for a young man, and then he asked me to

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Speaker 2: get my hair cut like Elvis Presley,