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Speaker 1: Imagine that untrue allegations appear on an Internet site about

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Speaker 1: your business tanking it. The site refuses to take them down,

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Speaker 1: but instead offers to sell you a reputation management service

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Speaker 1: to clean up the problem at a hefty price. The

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Speaker 1: powerful free speech protections for the Internet have allowed this

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Speaker 1: to happen in some cases. Joining me is Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Week writer June Lawrence, who wrote about rip Off Report

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Speaker 1: dot com and Dr John Pittman's battle with it. Do

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Speaker 1: tell us about what happened to John Pittman, Hi, June,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Um So. Dr Pittman is a

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Speaker 1: plastic surgeon and he practiced in Virginia and in two

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Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, these complaints started to appear on rip Off

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Speaker 1: Report about him and his practice. And some of them

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Speaker 1: had names on them, but they they don't know that

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Speaker 1: they were real names, and some of them were just

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Speaker 1: anonymous um and they all they said all these things,

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Speaker 1: saying he was a drug addict, his business was tanking,

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Speaker 1: he perjured himself in a trial against his ex wife

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Speaker 1: and taken money for it. There's just a lot of

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Speaker 1: really seen the allegations. So if you and they appeared

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Speaker 1: high up in his in search results on his name

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Speaker 1: and on the name of his practice. Um, so if

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Speaker 1: you're considering plastic surgery, you're probably not gonna go to him.

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Speaker 1: So and his business did tank after that. Now he

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Speaker 1: has filed suit and saying that all of those out,

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Speaker 1: all of those complaints, everything was false, but that when

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Speaker 1: he approached the website called rip Off Report to tell

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Speaker 1: them that it was false, then all of those were

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Speaker 1: false and to ask them to have it taken down,

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Speaker 1: they told him they couldn't do that, but they could

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Speaker 1: charge him money and they would make them go away

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Speaker 1: and turn them positive. And in your in your article

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Speaker 1: you say that according to in House Council a net Baby,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to assume that because somebody wrote something

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Speaker 1: really outlandish it's false, because it might be true. And

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Speaker 1: once a complaint goes up, it stays there unless you

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Speaker 1: pay this and tell us about this service that they offer.

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Speaker 1: So there are ways they so they there are ways

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Speaker 1: to make the to make the report go lower down

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Speaker 1: in search results. And I think what happens. You can

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Speaker 1: pay rip off and to become a member of one

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Speaker 1: of their service programs and they will sort of review

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Speaker 1: your business themselves. Um, they'll come and do an inspection

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Speaker 1: and take photos and then so that positive review replaces

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Speaker 1: essentially it sits on top of the original negative review. UM,

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Speaker 1: so that even though you still might have rip off

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Speaker 1: report in your search results. As a business, it would

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Speaker 1: be something saying, oh, this is a trusted business and

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Speaker 1: you should you the service, UM, and they have the

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Speaker 1: customer's interests at heart. UM. Tell about tell me about

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Speaker 1: the online free speech under section to thirty, which is

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Speaker 1: really at the heart of this. Well, so all of

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Speaker 1: this sounds a little bit, you know, from if you're

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Speaker 1: just it sounds a little bit counterintuitive that this would

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Speaker 1: be totally fine to do and also unfair, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: so something false? Why should Why shouldn't the website just

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Speaker 1: take it down? UM? And the reason for that is

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Speaker 1: that they don't have to under something called the Communications

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Speaker 1: Decency Act Section to thirty. It was. It's a law

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Speaker 1: pass It immunizes websites from content that third parties, but

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Speaker 1: from content from third party. So basically, if you're a

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Speaker 1: user and you put up the samatory complaint on this website,

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Speaker 1: the website is not liable for that. You could be UM,

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Speaker 1: but the website is not. UM. But you know, can

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Speaker 1: be very can be very complicated for businesses to respond

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Speaker 1: to this because you know, in a situation with report,

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Speaker 1: they won't take it down, um, so you basically have

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Speaker 1: to pay them even if it's fall So it sounds

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Speaker 1: like a nightmare. Are there any legal avenues? Are their

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Speaker 1: attorneys general looking into this? Are there any lawsuits that

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Speaker 1: have worked? Well? There there are lawsuits there. Judges seem

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Speaker 1: to be considering situations in which Section to thirty might

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Speaker 1: not apply. Now section is still remains a very powerful protection,

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Speaker 1: and and that's good for the internet. Um, but um,

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Speaker 1: there are cases in which judges are considering, well, um,

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Speaker 1: when might other laws afly like criminal statutes or something,

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Speaker 1: when might the website actually be liable for what they've

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Speaker 1: put for you know, the content up there. And and

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Speaker 1: in one particular case that's important for Dr Pittman's lawsuit,

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Speaker 1: the judge in Iowa it was it's not a it's

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Speaker 1: not a final ruling, but he did find in a

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Speaker 1: preliminary ruling that m rip offs section to the Section

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Speaker 1: to thirty immunity would not apply in that case because

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Speaker 1: ripoffs essentially had been too involved, um in creating the content,

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Speaker 1: like they had paid allegedly paid the man who wrote

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Speaker 1: a lot of the reports and may also have been

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Speaker 1: involved in writing the reports. Um. Now that is something

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Speaker 1: that the website denies, but the judge did say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, at trial, more likely than not ripoffs would

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Speaker 1: not get Section two thirty immunity. Well, so this is

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Speaker 1: as you said, this is really complex and it's a

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Speaker 1: nightmarish situation that you paint in your article for the

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Speaker 1: people who are subjected to this, And if you want

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Speaker 1: to read more about this, go to Bloomberg Business Week,

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Speaker 1: because it is it's really complex and very interesting. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much, June Lawrence from Bloomberg Business Week for

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Speaker 1: being with us here on Bloomberg Law. That's it for

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Speaker 1: this edition of Bloomberg Law. We'll be back tomorrow at

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Speaker 1: one pm Wall Street Time. Thanks to our technical director

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Speaker 1: Chris try Comey and our producer David Suckerman. Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: with Carol Master and Corey Johnson starts right now on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. This is Bloomberg. I'm June Grosso. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned for Carol Master and Corey Johnson. This is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg