WEBVTT - #50 Nick 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:04.120 Yeah. Can I ask you a question? 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:04.920 Yeah? 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.840 Is it healthier to take a bath or a shower? 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:11.479 Is it healthier shower? 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.200 From a medical perspective, I think more relaxing. Okay, which 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:19.239 is better? Bacon or ham? Which is better for the heart? 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:19.400 Lake? 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:20.639 Which is more heart healthy? 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:21.840 That's a toss up. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:28.600 Okay, we'll say bacon is screaming a good cardiovascular workout. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:33.920 Gummy? 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.839 All right, Time to take a bath while eating bacon 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:50.360 and screaming my head off. From Gimblet Media, I'm Jonathan 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.680 Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:55.880 Nick. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:11.320 Right after the break, Hey. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:13.640 Hey, how's it going? 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:14.399 How are you? 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.160 The clocks move forward an hour so it's not all 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:17.959 dark anymore. 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:25.679 Huh. These two subdued dudes aren't on ludes. They're Canadian 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.640 and their lack of expression is an expression of their 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:36.000 proud Canadian heritage. One of these Canadians is me, Jonathan Goldstein, 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.840 and the other is Nick. Nick grew up in Ontario 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.160 with his older brother Chris. They had the same dad, 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.240 but different moms. Still, Chris would always say. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.559 There's no such thing as a half brother, no matter 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.640 what anyone says, like we're brothers. 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.720 Chris split his time between his parents' houses, so the 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.880 brothers mostly saw each other on weekend, but I think. 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.240 Because of the rarity of his presence, it was that 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.040 much more special to spend time together. We'd stay up 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.000 until four in the morning playing video games, listening to music. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.160 Nick says his brother introduced him to the music that 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.200 would form the blueprint for his taste. Chris loved electronica 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.600 and house music, but his special love was beatboxing, and 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.920 Chris was an amazing beatboxer. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.560 It was like relentless, Like we would go to McDonald's 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.000 and the car ride there would be beatboxing, Sitting down 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.240 in the booth would be beatboxing. It would just be 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.720 like constant. I'm not taking the picture. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.519 Nick sends me a grainy YouTube video from two thousand 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.400 and six. In it, a shaggy haired teenage Chris is 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.160 leaning against a wall with a group of friends outside 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.200 a bowling alley. He pulls the gum from his mouth, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.320 and as casually as whistling a tune, starts to beatbox. 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.040 It's hard to understand how the sound of a whole 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.280 drum line is coming from the mouth of one seventeen 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:07.280 year old boy. In the YouTube, comments a twelve year 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:15.639 old Nick has written you were My Hero, only a 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.760 few months after the video was shot. Nick remembers coming 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.639 downstairs one morning to find his mom sobbing. She told 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.880 him Chris had been in an accident. 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.040 At which point I thought, Okay, Chris has been an 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.440 accident and broke his arm, Chris has been an accent 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.080 and broke his nose, whatever it might be. Yeah, you know, 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.520 when nothing that bad has happened to you in your life, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.320 you don't jump to the worst case scenario when someone 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:42.800 says there's been an accident and then Chris had died. 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.840 Chris had been killed in a car crash. He was 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:51.880 seventeen years old. 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.160 I feel like I'm warned in the way a twelve 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.080 year old would like. I would often find myself doing 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.480 things that I would think that Chris would have thought 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.960 were cool to do, and trying to keep those parts 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.280 of him that I admired alive. So I got like 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.760 a little bit more into beatboxing, and of course listening 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.040 to music to music that he liked, like mostly Bonobo. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.120 Binobo is a British DJ and electronica musician. He was 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.400 Chris's favorite, and so became a favorite of Nick's too, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.000 and even as Nick grew older, Chris's musical influence remained. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.640 Through the years, he kept an ear out for new 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.360 albums by Chris's favorite bands, always wondering what Chris would 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:45.040 make of them, which brings us to twenty seventeen. By 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.760 this point, Nick was in his early twenties. He was 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.120 at his parents' place having a beer with a friend 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.120 when the friend put on the newest Bonobo album. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.560 And he started playing this track that opens like very 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.360 clearly with beatboxing. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.880 It was just a short sample, a few seconds of 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:20.120 beatboxing that Binobo had looped several times. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.960 And the second I heard that, I'm just like, I 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:23.240 was like, that's Chris for sure. The sound of his 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:28.000 beatboxing is like just totally drilled into my head, like 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:29.640 I just I just know what it sounds like, in 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:38.320 the same way I know what my wife's sneeze sounds like. There's, 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.479 of course, like the very logical part of me that 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.359 was being like, there's no way this is just some 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.680 random sample. There's no way that could be Chris. But 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.360 the other ninety nine percent of me, I'm just like, 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.800 that's got to be him, Like that's got to be. 0:05:53.800 --> 0:06:04.560 Him in that uncanny moment as he listened to the 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.000 sound of his brother being brought back to life a 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.279 decade after his death. Nick looked over at his friend 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.600 and said, nothing. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:14.760 I remember, not wanting to bring it up in the 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.560 moment as to not like kind of freak him out, 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.800 to be like, well, this song reminds me of my 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:21.520 dead brother. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.160 Nick's modus operandi is to never impose a burden on others, 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.839 but as a result, even into his adulthood, he's never 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.279 quite figured out how to broach the subject of his 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.279 brother's death, even with some of his closest friends. Many 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.320 of them don't even know Nick ever had an older 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.680 brother at all. But in the weeks that followed, Nick 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:47.640 played the song in private over and over. The experience 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.360 of listening to it and feeling Chris's breath in it 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.760 provided him with a space to grieve. Since Chris was cremated, 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.599 there isn't a grave for Nick to visit, and so 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.400 the sonic space became all the more in value. 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.160 Feels like that sound came from a different time, Like 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.680 came from the time of my memories as a kid 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:09.440 with Chris. It's nice to hear a person's voice, so 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:10.480 you don't get to hear anymore. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.960 But Nick wants to be absolutely sure that he is 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.280 hearing his brother's voice. Despite his initial certainty, a part 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.560 of him wonders is his brain just working through the 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.160 grief or is he really hearing his dead brother's voice 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.320 in a track by a Grammy nominated musician. Nick has 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.400 several points of evidence to support the latter. First, of course, 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.600 it just sounds like Chris. Second, Chris often reached out 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.800 to musicians he admired. In fact, at the Ottawa Jazz Fest, 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.680 Chris even navigated backstage to meet Binobo. The two ended 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.680 up chatting about sampling in a bid to further impress Bonobo. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.440 Nick thinks it's entirely possible Chris followed up that interaction 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.080 by sending him beatboxing samples. Samples Binobo might have saved. 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:04.800 The third point of evidence the song's name Ontario, Ontario, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.960 the Canadian province Nick and Chris are from. Bonobo is 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:21.000 from England, but he met Chris in Ontario. Nick has 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.800 tried everything to get a definitive answer. He searched online 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.520 for information about Bonobo's samples, and about once a year 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.360 he'll reach out to Bonobo. His management and his record label. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.480 I'll like go on an emailing spree and I'll reach 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:39.760 out to like everyone who's ever sniffed Banobo, being like 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.560 I do not want to like say that my brother 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.080 deserves credit for anything, or. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.120 Like you just want to know payment or anything like that. 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:47.800 I just want to know. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.679 And they've never responded and never responded. I mean it's 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:53.680 not like the Rolling Stones, right, I mean you'd think 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.600 that he would be a little more accessible. Yeah, I'm 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.680 just looking at Banobo just to get a sense of 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.600 but all I'm coming up with a wow, amazing pictures 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.800 of primates. Oh yeah, that would also cow. I'm just looking. 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:11.199 Oh god, it's very moving. You haven't experienced true emotion 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.440 until you've seen a picture of two bonobos playing with 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.600 their baby. And then there's their personalities. Did you know 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.400 bonobos share food with strangers, or that they make love 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.280 face to face, or that female bonobos show a preference 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:32.160 for unaggressive males, that is, males who are subdued, not rude. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.080 But Nick did not approach me to learn about bonobos, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.440 even though they are wonderful. Nick came to me for help. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.480 It would be amazing to use your fame and clout 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.560 and power to get a hold of the people that 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.520 I haven't been able to get a hold of. 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.240 Nick has an outsized view of my fame and clout 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.240 and power. But it's not like I'll be trying to 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.800 get an actual Bonobo on the phone, which by the way, 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.640 would be adorable. I'll only be trying to get Bonobo 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.800 on the phone. So I promise to try, and Nick, 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.360 in a subdued way, is thrilled. Awesome, thank you, thank you? 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.040 And in my own subdued way, so am I I 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.960 even break out a little beatboxing a mouse boosh? Did 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:24.400 you hear that? 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:26.720 Yeah, a little scratching. 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.520 Is it possible for a beatboxer to be recognized by 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.760 just a brief sample? Can one actually identify beatboxing as 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:52.080 one would a voice? In short? Does Nick's story make sense? 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.440 Before approaching Bonobo? I want to consult an expert, and 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.520 Nick thinks he knows just the person, beatboxing ic and 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.359 former member of the Roots Rozelle. 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.200 I remember Chris saying that Rozelle is the greatest of 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:07.640 all time. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.119 I know this other guy named Devon. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:12.640 Nice. 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.160 Did I mention him last time we spoke. Devon was 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:21.280 a Gimblet intern who participated in many beatboxing competitions. Every 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.439 time I'd run into him, like say in the bathroom 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.760 or about to go into the bathroom or coming out 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.440 of the bathroom, I'd say, hey, Devon, want to spit 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.600 a little something for me? And he'd laugh and say 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.000 maybe later. Yeah, Devon's pretty cool. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.800 Rozelle is like beatboxing Royalty. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.080 But Nick seems super stoked about this Rozelle guy. 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.920 But I mean no, like, in no way do I 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:53.440 mean to discredit Devon. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.760 I send Rozelle an email, and when I don't hear back, 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.480 my producer Khalila finds a phone number for him, which 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.240 oddly is listed on his Instagram. Is it possible that 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.800 he's not aware of it, that he did it by accident? 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:12.199 That would be weird. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.920 I don't know. Look at me, I'm constantly making mistakes. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:15.839 How old is he? 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:17.400 It's fifty seven? 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.200 Oh fifty seven? What an inspiration? 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.280 Wow, here's more excited to talk to him because you're contemporaries. 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.720 He's fifty seven and he's still beat boxing away. Fantastic. 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.840 Leave your name and your number and someone will return local. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:46.920 So I think we got the right number. The mailbox 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:47.280 is full. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.280 I cannot accept any messages at this time. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:59.680 The box it is, of course it is Devin. Remember 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.959 that I said I knew named Devon, great beatboxer, really 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:05.800 cool guy. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:06.679 Hey. 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:08.959 Yeah. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.760 After Nick's hero Rozelle crap the beatboxing bed, I was 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.640 blessed with the good fortune to get Devon on the phone. 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.440 For pro beatboxers, it's very, very easy to tell who 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.199 the beatboxer is just by a quick sample of their 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:25.840 beat boxing. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:26.160 Right. 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.480 Your idea that somebody could recognize that just from the 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.400 beatboxing is totally on point. 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.880 After Devon tells me that I'm totally on point, I 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.920 asked if you could listen to the Bonobo sample alongside 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.840 a recording of Chris to see if it's the same person. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:42.640 Let's take a gamber. 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.200 When you went, I thought you were going to launch 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:53.319 into some beatboxing. Now you've given me an appetite. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.400 Hey Ontario by Bonobo. 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.040 Devin forges ahead, ignoring my hint to rustle up a 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:08.240 hasty beatboxing Bouya Bayze Ontario by Bonobo. Next, for a 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.520 point of comparison, I send him the YouTube video of Chris, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.559 and to my surprise, I've seen this video. 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.800 Really, I swear I've seen. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.000 That how why would you have seen it? 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.560 Because YouTube was the only way people learn how to beatbox, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.720 and this video is like, he has really really good 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.240 skills also for that time. It's shocking to me that 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:36.840 you would be this good in two thousand and six. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.880 That's crazy. Those are really impressive boxing skills. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:45.560 So impressive in fact, that Devin wonders, if indeed Chris 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.840 is being sampled on the track, why wouldn't Binobo use 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.040 a flashier example of his talent. Why would he instead 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.440 loop something that sounds so sedate. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.240 Like just very basic, That sort of would be the 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.080 type of thing anyone would do as their first sounds. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.120 So I just don't know why he would take some 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:11.000 random kid sample of the most basic version of beatboxing 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:12.200 and put it. 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.800 In Stylistically, Devon isn't able to link the Banobo sample 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.840 to the YouTube video, so I send him another example 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:29.280 of Chris's work, hoping it might help clarify. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.000 Okay, I heard something interesting. 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:36.000 What's that right there? Okay, so is it that sound? 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:37.200 Yeah, he does that. 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.920 It's the same thing from the Lenobo song. It does 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.800 actually sound pretty similar now that I'm hearing just that part. 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.000 Now that Devin's confirmed the plausibility of Nick's story, reaching 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.440 out to Bonobos seems like a reasonable next step. So 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.840 email is record label, then an email is management. Then 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.320 I email his record label again, and his management again. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.040 After waiting several weeks, I call in a favor from 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.840 a friend with music industry connections who gets me a 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.720 more direct email address. But just like Nick, I hear 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.640 nothing back. Thanks calling red Light management if you know 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.200 your part of the extension. So I try phoning Bnobo's 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.360 management company, but there's no operator, no directory. I have 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.120 no way of knowing what extension to dial. Let me 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:29.880 just try a random one maybe. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:39.400 In Validentary. Try again, in validentary, Please try again one 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:47.200 one a ah in Validentary. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:52.000 For God's sake, my fame, power, even my clout is 0:16:52.000 --> 0:17:00.160 getting me nowhere. Why is it so difficult to get 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.440 a response. In all my correspondence, I keep explaining over 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.919 and over how this isn't about money or credit, how 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.560 Chris idolized Bonobo and Nick listens to Ontario as a 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.080 way to mourn him, and yet I still can't get 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.760 anyone to even engage. Maybe there's something about the whole 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.840 business of sampling and authorship that's making them touchy because 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.360 when sampling took off in the seventies, almost nothing was cleared, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.159 but then about a decade later, the tide turned and 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.800 the lawsuits began. The Beastie Boys are still paying for 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.359 the samples on Paul's boutique. Kanye West was sued by 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.320 the parents of a child he sampled from a YouTube video, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.879 and just last summer there was drama between Beyonce and 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:48.000 Calise because Beyonce used a sample for milkshake without Callis's permission. 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.040 Is it possible that for all our reassurances, Bonobo's people 0:17:53.119 --> 0:18:03.000 still think we're angling for a lawsuit? And then, at 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.960 long last, Benobo's people finally get back to me. I'm 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.840 sorry for the delay in responding. The email reads, I 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.159 did get confirmation that the person you've emailed us about 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:20.320 was not sampled in the song Ontario, thank you and best. 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.840 There's no sense of who was doing the confirming, no 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.520 mention of Chris by name. He's only referred to as 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.800 the person you've emailed us about. I write back, asking 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.480 who and what was sampled so I can close the 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.840 loop on this whole thing. After waiting three months and 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.439 receiving no reply, I follow up, but I never get 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.120 a response. I did get confirmation that the person you've 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.280 emailed us about, you know, being your brother was not 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.040 sampled in the song Ontario. After all the waiting, all 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.800 I have for Nick is a generic letter that turns 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.879 his beautiful talisman, the song he's been listening to for 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.320 five years to dust. I wish that I even had 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:07.159 an email from them that was a little bit more considerate. 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.480 Yeah, for sure, but yeah, thanks again so much for 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.240 looking into it and really appreciate it. Well. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.920 Nick's subdued reaction is to be expected. As a subdued 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.920 Canadian myself, I can tell the news hurts, but being 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.720 the kind of person who never wants to burden, Nick 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:36.439 shows more concern for my disappointment than his own. Before 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.920 this whole undertaking, Ontario could exist in a gray zone, 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.400 Nick could believe he was hearing his brother. Now that 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.160 that's been taken away from him, he's lost his place 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.840 to mourn. But maybe there's another way to provide Nick 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.399 with such a space. And so I brainstorm ideas for 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.000 a new Sonic memorial. Maybe I could get a remix 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.680 from that guy Devin, whom I think I already mentioned. 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.160 What about offers my producer Khalila, that other musical act 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:10.440 Chris liked. Do you mean Devin, I ask no, She says, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:17.959 the erbalizer Khalila is contradicting me. Isn't due to insubordination alone. 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.720 She's referencing a detail from that story about Chris's meeting 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.720 Bonobo at the Ottawa Jazz Festival. Nick had mentioned that 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.240 when Chris first slipped backstage, he ran into another. 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.800 Group and He's like, Hey, can you guys tell me 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.719 where Bonobo is? Do I really want to meet him? 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:34.440 He's my favorite. 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.440 One of the men in the group turned to Chris 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.160 and said, in a pronounced British accent. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:41.840 Banobo, like, fuck Bonobo? 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:48.760 Where the herbalizer, the erbalizer? Pottymouth Banobo? Hating the erbalizer. 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.040 The erbalizer would go on to become another one of 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.120 Chris's all time favorites and Nick's as well. And so 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.800 I email an address I find online and explain Nick's situation, 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.600 and then I make my request. Maybe the Herbalizer could 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:16.440 create a song that features Chris's beatboxing. Whereas I'd spent 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.120 months trying to get anyone even remotely associated with Bonobo 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.240 to respond I get an email from the Erbalizer that 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.919 same day. It's from the band's co creator, Jake Werry, 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:31.120 who explains that while the Herbalizer is now defunct, he's 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.040 working on a new project with a new partner. He 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.199 tells me they'd be up to hear more about the idea. 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.560 So a few days later, I get on a video 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.920 call with James Moss aka DJ Sterling Moss and Jake 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.440 Werry aka The Herbalizer. 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.120 With British and we say the Herbalize us sorry today, 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.720 an h you know none of this Herbalizer. Now look 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:55.800 look here, oh boy, this is the bloody. 0:21:55.560 --> 0:22:00.439 Herbalizer Herbalizer, Okay. Jake has the vibe of a character 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.480 from a Guy Ritchie film, the ex rugby player who 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.040 works as an enforcer for a loan shark played by 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:11.200 Jason Statham. You know, scary, but he is well within 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.040 his right to be tearing me a new one. I 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:15.240 apologize for the faux pas. 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.119 Oh, I'm minded kidding. 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:27.640 I loved it. Sure, I've produced radio stories, but I've 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.640 never once produced a song, not even one of those 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:35.040 public radio premium ones. Ira Glass and Peter Segel singing 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.080 a parody version of Biggie and Puff Daddy's more money, 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:42.520 more problems, but with lyrics about how your money solves problems, 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:48.200 problems inherent to sustaining important journalism. So, with neither musical 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.639 training nor the slightest idea what I'm doing, I start 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.960 music producing, offering suggestions for the vibe I'm going for. 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.399 Elegiic might be overstating it, but like allowing some of 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:02.399 that feeling of loss into it. 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:05.920 Or you know, I think that the way that he 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.960 beat boxes is not wistful. The story might be, but 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:11.800 that's not the why that he performed. 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:12.400 Yeah, I was just. 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:18.200 Thinking wistful beatboxing. What was I thinking? James and Jake 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:20.879 are well within their rights to be tearing me yet 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:21.960 another new one. 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.280 It should be more like a celebratory, positive, happy thing. 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:30.080 It should be about him living on through the music. 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.160 But I think to see what happens, rather than trying 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.159 to force it to go in a direction, just just 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.160 let that, let the vibe happen. Man. 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.320 Throughout our conversation, my mind keeps turning back to one question. 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:49.040 Why would two popular, successful musicians be so amenable to 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:53.040 talking to a first time music producer like myself. James 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:55.440 has performed for crowds that have numbered in the hundreds 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:59.240 of thousands, and Jake has had songs featured in Hollywood films. 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.359 Why would they entertain a request to write a whole 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.240 piece of music honoring someone they don't even know. But 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.640 it won't be long before the answer to my question 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.240 is revealed, And in the meantime, when I tell Nick 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:14.000 the idea, he's thrilled. 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:22.000 Walking through a really nice suburb of London, Oh my 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:22.840 way to see Jake. 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.000 In June, Nick travels to England to see family, but 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:29.560 knowing Jake lives in London and being such a big fan, 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:32.680 Nick nervously asks me if Jake might want to meet up. 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.080 I figure it's not a bad idea for the two 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:37.080 of them to get to know each other. It might 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.800 even help the song. So I asked Jake if he'd 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:43.080 be open to it, and once again Jake surprises me. 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:46.640 Not only does he agree, but he invites Nick over 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:47.240 to his home. 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:52.160 It's lovely little street. It's not where i'd imagine Jake 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:53.320 of the Herbalizer to live. 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:56.680 Nick records the visit and tells me about it later. 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.800 There's a little nerve wracking walking up there. Hey, Jake, 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.600 it's good, eh man, and this is surreal. That means 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:06.320 you have to say, honestly, I. 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.080 Wake up in the morning, I put my pants on 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:08.560 just like you. 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:09.440 Yeah. 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:11.640 I think I was a bit intimidated both it being 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:14.600