WEBVTT - Ep. 222: Paddlefish Wars and Caviar Dreams 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.200 Let me do the math here, forty eight hundred dollars 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.480 average sized female that you caught it be worth five 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.600 grand yep on bear grease. We've made a living telling 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.880 the gritty stories of rural America, of backwoodsmen and long hunters, 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.560 cowboys and Native American leaders, law men and outlaws. I 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.920 hate to admit it, boys, but I've completely turned the 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.320 helm of the ship to something bizarrely off topic on 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:38.000 this episode. Caviar salted fish eggs of certain species are 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.440 some of the most expensive per ounce food in the world. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.280 They're a status symbol of wealth and luxury. But is 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.440 that really why I'm interested? Have I derailed us? Or 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.440 could this be a story where rural America collides with 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.760 a global caviar trade in a bizarre crime ring. I 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.040 guess you'll have to wait and see. But this story 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.000 from the heartland of Oklahoma is full of giant fish 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.760 net poachers, undercover agents, and a region turned upside down 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:11.160 by black market caviar. I really doubt that you're gonna 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.520 want to miss this one, if you can even believe 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:13.960 it at all. 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.200 All these wardens converged on them. We had chuck guns and. 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.319 It did you lead the chart you called the what'd 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:21.960 you say to them? 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:22.320 State? 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.920 Game warden state, that's not what you want to hear 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.399 in the in the dark anytime, is it not? 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:28.520 With a batch of eggs. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.800 My name is Klay Nukem, and this is the Bear 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.839 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.560 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.720 story of Americans who live their lives close to the land. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:59.920 Presented by f HF gear, American made, purpose built hunting 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.560 and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:14.280 the places we explore. Phil We're gonna have to start 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.080 from the top. I think we just have to tell 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.359 them about Caviar. There's just not another starting point. Here 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:19.680 we go. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:29.840 I'm Alan Morris at Sterling Caviar. We're just outside of Sacramento, California. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.840 I'm assuming this is catching the average bear Grease listener 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:38.320 a little left guard Caviar, But I'll tell you this 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.919 is a foundational piece of understanding for this story. 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.000 The history of Caviar is generally thought of as based 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.120 around the Caspian Sea, where the beluga, the et cetera, 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.320 the sort of old world species live where folks were 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.520 catching it. At some point they realized, hey, if we 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.880 salt these eggs, they taste pretty good. And then at 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.160 a point in time it became fashionable in the imperial 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.760 courts of Europe, and that's when it kind of took 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:12.560 off with the rich set. But we know people who've 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.359 been in the business who grew up in that area say, oh, yeah, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:16.920 we had when I was a little kid, we had 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:22.480 caviar for breakfast every day in Russia, and so that's 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:23.480 kind of where it started. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:30.640 The Persians first called salted fish eggs kaviar, which means 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.440 cake of strength. Aristotle mentioned sturgeon caviar as being quote 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:40.560 heralded into banquets amongst trumpets and flowers unquote. He said 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.560 that three centuries before the birth of Christ. But it 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.640 really got its start as a widespread delicacy by the 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:51.040 sixteen hundreds, when the Russian Orthodox Church decided that even 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.080 though they required fasting from meat for as many as 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.640 two hundred days a year, caviar would be acceptable for 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.960 people to eat in lieu of meat. Russia was a 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:05.440 land rich with giant sturgeon filled rivers, and similar to 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.560 the ideas of Europeans around the American bison. In the 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:14.200 eighteen hundreds, the supply of sturgeons seemed endless. Beluga an 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.239 etcetera sturgeon fish native to wider Europe, is the best 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:23.920 caviar in the world period. Beluga sturgeons sometimes only reproduce 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.920 every twenty five years, and after centuries of commercial pressure, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.719 sturgeon are endangered in Europe, and today it's illegal to 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:36.039 sell beluga caviar in the United States. Who knew Russia 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.880 was that big into caviar, but why would we We'll 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.000 be back for the Russians to just put them aside 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.280 for now. In Middle America, eating caviar is about as 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.039 common as an albino emu. It's just not in the 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:53.080 cultural rolodex, but in the ultra wealthy part of American culture, 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.240 caviar is alive and well. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.359 It's another jazzling Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:05.120 Thank you for joining us. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.800 I'm Robin Leach with those champagne wishes and caviadres. 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.240 Robin Leech hosted the television show Lifestyles of the Rich 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.320 and Famous from nineteen eighty four to nineteen eighty five, 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:23.640 and coin the phrase champagne wishes and caveat dreams. But 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.400 what's all the fuss about? Does this stuff really even 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:28.159 taste good? 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:35.040 Here's alan Caviar is a unique flavor and texture that 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.320 you don't get from any other product, any other food 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.240 in the world. So the experience. First, you put on 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.039 your tongue and sort of crush it against your palette. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.560 And what you want to do is you're feeling those 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.240 individual beads and then as they pop, you'll get a rich, 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.200 buttery flavor and then a cascade of flavors. There's going 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.560 to be some bright accidity to it. I want some minerality. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.479 I want a breath of the sea or a hint 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:06.040 of the sea, and also some earthiness. We call it merwar, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.560 just like tear war and wine. You can taste that 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.599 it's something that came from the earth. And again, those 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.039 fats kind of let those flavors cascade. You know, you 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.359 swallow it, and you just got this fog left in 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.120 your head. As it is when you've tasted anything great, 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.520 it kind of leaves you a little bit dizzy. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.400 I'm sitting in the police station in Vanita, Oklahoma. I've 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.719 not been arrested, but rather I've made arrangements to meet 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.400 someone here that probably knows more about caviar than anyone 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:41.360 in Oklahoma. He's traveled to Europe for seafood symposiums and 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.560 dealt in the global caviar trade. But why does this 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.719 sky live in Venida, a town of fifty one hundred 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:52.360 people in northeast Oklahoma. Venita has a handsome main street 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.159 and a good Chinese restaurant. This is flat country mixed 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.000 with thick forests and open grass pastures, good cattle country. 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.240 The landscape cradles big, slow moving rivers flowing out of 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.520 the Great Plains of Kansas to the north. All these 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:12.920 rivers are damned, creating incredibly fecunned lakes like Grand Keystone 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:17.280 and you fallow. Does this sound like caviar country? I 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.200 don't know. I'm meeting with retired Oklahoma game board and 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.640 Keith Green. He's in his early seventies, wiry, full of energy, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.320 and grin's ear to ear. At the conclusion of each sentence, 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.760 will learn that Keith is a bona fide hero of 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.560 Oklahoma conservation, a pioneer. I assume this is rare for 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:41.200 a caviar expert, but in his prime he was as 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.800 good an Elk bowhunter as existed. He owns a string 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.000 of pack mules and nine bird dogs. Today he does 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.760 Keith is also an accomplished fisherman. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:58.040 My dad when we were in the late sixties, he 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.240 was loading us up with his boat and go into 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.240 Mexico to all the old Mexico lakes bass fishaw And 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:09.640 in seventy three I won the Oklahoma State Basque Championship 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.600 and beat Jimmy Houston. He was second. I was I 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.400 was eighteen seventeen or eighteen, so we bass fish. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.239 Keith is one of those guys when you shake his hand, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.240 you know you're talking to a legend. But he's got 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.800 some foundational information on global trade he needs to share. 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.640 This is where we'll start to stitch the lifestyles of 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.840 the rich and famous with Oklahoma Rednecks. This is part 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:38.400 two of the foundation of our story. Learning about caviar 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:39.040 was part one. 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.480 In eighty seven. It was an Iranian embargo with the 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:48.640 United States, and ninety percent of our caviar came from Iran, 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:55.400 our black caviar, so our caviar quit, we lost it, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.960 So there was a they started looking for a substitute. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.319 And caviar coming into the United States yes, was gone, 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.199 was gone. So the people that were wanting caviar was 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:06.120 looking for another. 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:10.600 Source absolutely, and come to find out, paddlefish had dark 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:15.400 black eggs, their kin to a sturgeon and their cartilage. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.600 Fish and paddlefish caviar is number three in the world 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.760 as caviar three to four. It can be really, really good, 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.439 and there's some pluses to it. Sturgeon caviar you can't 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.920 freeze it. Battlefish caviar you can freeze, and you can 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.439 also pasteurize. 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.400 Now some of the pieces are starting to take shape. 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.840 Caviar is extremely sought after in some circles. The supply 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.320 chain was cut off by Ronald Reagan's embargo, but lo 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:55.520 and behold. Keith mentioned an American species, the paddlefish polydn spathula, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.240 also known as the spoon bill, and it has black 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.280 row and is one of the top caviars in the world. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.440 Who knew The truth is that very few people in 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.200 Oklahoma knew anything about it nor cared anything about caviar. 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.960 Fish eggs were usually left on the bank. High demand 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.840 and Low's supply had begun to create the backdrop for 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:22.320 some serious illegal activity for our final foundational piece to 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.240 begin to tell the story, we need to understand what 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.199 a paddlefish is, where they live, and how they've survived 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.640 on this continent since before t Rex was leaving tracks. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:38.240 This is retired Oklahoma game Warden Jeff Brown, also an 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.680 incredible man. He'll be a huge player in this story 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:42.240 later on. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:47.840 Paddlefish are a very unique fish and that they're prehistoric, 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:52.040 the cardilaginous. They don't have any hard bones in them. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.240 The only scaleful structure is their rostrum, which is a 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.760 long snout. Other than that, they have a cartilage encased 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.920 final cord that runs the length through their body. And 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.120 other than that, there's no bone. Town They have a 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:10.120 thick hide. They have a really big area or a 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.880 streak that runs from them of red meat. They grow 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.400 to be real big world record came out of Oklahoma 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.800 for several years, but it just recently was broken in 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.320 Missouri just this spring, I think. 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.120 On March seventeenth, twenty twenty four, first time paddle fisherman 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.400 Chad Williams broke the world record by snagging a one 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.680 hundred and sixty four pounds thirteen ounce paddlefish in Missouri's 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.800 Lake of the Ozarks. The former world record was one 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.680 hundred and sixty four pounds even and came out of 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:49.640 Keystone Lake near Tulsa, Oklahoma. The age of natural systems 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.960 of the Earth is bizarre to comprehend from inside the 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.760 cockpit of the small sliver of time that humans live. 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.800 And according to the fossil record, ninety nine percent of 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.080 this species that have ever existed are now extinct. So 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:08.240 when a species outlast is peers and critics, it's worth 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.480 taking a note and tipping your hat. Here is Oklahoma 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.319 Department of Wildlife Fisheries biologist Brandon Brown. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:22.920 You know, paddlefish are such a bizarre looking fish. They're primitive. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.520 They are an ancient species. They were around, or at 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:30.120 least the relatives were around well before the dinosaurs. Probably 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.839 the most bizarre thing about them is their rostrum, their bill, 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.240 and a lot of people used to think that they 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.559 use that to stir up the mud and then kind 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.840 of eat what they stir up. But the fact is 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.800 that's really a specialized appendage. You can really think of 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:50.000 that as a plankton seeking antenna. Work done at Missouri 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.080 years ago found that within juvenile paddlefish, they put them 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.599 in a round tank, but they glued basically plankton to 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.640 the end of wires, and those little paddle fish could 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:05.439 basically detect the electrical field of one individual plankton. So 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:10.600 they're amazing critters. You know, another cartilaginous fish is a shark, 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.520 and paddlefish are related to sharks. And you know, if 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.959 you ever see a paddlefish with this rostrum cut off, 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.880 really it looks basically like a basking shark. 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.520 That's pretty wild. But here's where paddlefish start to stand 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.199 out as caviar producing machines. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:34.040 One of the really neat things about paddlefish, especially when 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.760 we start talking about their life cycle and reproduction and 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.920 especially their management, is when you clean a bass or 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.680 a crappie, you know, you know, they have eggs in them, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.040 and it's maybe a handful of eggs. But when you 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.440 clean a mature female paddlefish, you might get fifteen or 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.880 twenty pounds of eggs out of her. So she's producing 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.320 about a third of her body weight sometimes into reproduction. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.240 That is a huge metal bolic investment to think every year, 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.000 every other year, whatever happens to be, that she's literally 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.480 producing a third of her body weight into eggs. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.080 Culsta VARs of corn with big ears make for big yields, 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.640 and giant fish with huge volumes of black eggs create 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:19.920 incredible caviar. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.080 They're long lived. They'll live maybe to fifty years old 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.400 or so. They don't reproduce till they're anywhere between six 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.480 and twelve years old, and they only reproduce when the 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.600 conditions are just right. So we'll go years maybe without 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.080 a reproduction. So we have what's called what we call 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.720 and referred to as as your classes. We'll have a 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.240 pretty good good idea when the fish spond, and you 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.200 can mark that on a calendar. In about six seven years, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.120 we'll have a good fishery. But then at the same time, 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.080 all those fish that people are kitching are from one 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.600 year class, and so they can wipe that year class out. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.640 Here's Brandon on paddlefish spawning. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.200 So we consider paddlefish episodic spawners, meaning they spawn in 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:14.360 these big boom or bust episodes. It's not unusual to 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.920 see at eight or even a ten or fifteen year 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:24.600 gap in between those spawning events. Significant spawning events episodic spawners. 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.440 That's an insightful biological descriptor. 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:32.160 I like that paddlefish are native to North America. They're 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.840 native to the Mississippi River system. Oklahoma is actually on 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.400 the western fringe of the range. We're not in the 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.200 heart of a paddlefish country, so to speak. They once 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.760 range from Louisiana all the way up into Canada in 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.960 some places. But over the last fifty years or so, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.480 paddlefish have declined significantly in the United States, both in 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:01.240 range and number, but Oklahoma has been the exception to that. 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.280 Our paddlefish are doing well. They're doing very well. We 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.560 almost certainly have more paddlefish today than we did fifty 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.280 years ago. They're expanding both in the range within the 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:16.440 state and also in population size and in numbers. Oklahoma 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.000 really won the paddlefish lottery, so to speak, and it 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.600 wasn't anything that we did as a state or as 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.920 an agency. We just got really lucky. We've got enough 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.760 river miles between those dams that those fish can move 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:32.360 and go and get a spawn off. And we have 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.360 very fertile, very fertile watersheds. You know, if we look 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.560 at that grand system that water's coming out of Kansas, well, 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.120 there's probably not anywhere in the US more fertile, you know, than. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:47.160 Kansas paddlefish in general are not doing good, but in 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.120 Oklahoma they're doing very well. This is really where the 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.560 human side of the story begins. Here's Jeff Brown tell 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:56.960 me about the caviar. 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:03.280 The caviar is, it makes a high grade caviar. The 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:08.000 row from the paddlefish. There's a window of time there. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.200 The eggs in the paddlefish are viable as far as 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.520 caviar goes all the way back into November December. You 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.639 know that they don't spawn until March April, but the 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.040 row is you can make caviar out of it earlier 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:30.800 than what they spawn. The beluga sturgeon population in the Russia, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:36.720 the Old Soviet Union collapsed from overfishing, and that caviar 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.000 market went away for the most part. And that is 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.160 one of the reasons, if not the biggest reason, why 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.119 so much pressure was put on paddlefish caviar. And I 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.119 looked online last night of what paddlefish caviar was selling 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.720 for and it's about a dollar a gram, so roughly, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.199 depending on where you buy it, from twenty five to 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.560 thirty five dollars an ount, So that makes one fish 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.800 worth potentially quite a bit of money. It wasn't uncommon 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.880 for a fish to produce ten pounds of caviar. 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.919 Let me do the math here, forty eight hundred dollars 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.160 and yeah, an average, average sized female that you caught 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.520 that had ten pounds of caviar would be worth five 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:18.520 grand yep. 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:20.440 Wow. And that's just the caviar. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.360 And some people would sell the meat on top of that, 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:26.600 you know, for another couple of dollars a pound, So 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.879 a really big fish could potentially be worth you know, 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:32.640 five six thousand dollars. 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.440 That's a big money for a fish. And coming from 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.440 the hunting world, it's hard to imagine the meat or 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.920 consumable products of an animal we hunt being worth that much. 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.199 We also learned another influence on the global market was 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.879 the depletion of Russian sturgeon fisheries additional to the trade 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.360 embargo with Iran in the nineteen eighties. So here's what 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.879 we know. Caviar is in demand glow, but most Oklahoma's 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.280 I know would starve before they'd eat it, So there 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.119 was an untapped resource, kind of like when the Beverly 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.800 Hillbillies discovered oil on their land. It was worthless to them, 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.760 but some other folks wanted it pretty bad. So how 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:20.320 did paddlefish caviard get discovered. Jed's oil got discovered when 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.679 someone shot a gun into the ground. Here's game Warden 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:24.520 Keith Green. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.280 There was a guy in Tennessee named Frank Hale, and 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.639 he was really one of the very first people that 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.240 it was legal to net him. He went up to 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:42.280 Missouri and set up a program on the Missouri River. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.200 The guy that I caught here in Oklahoma Billy Wishard, 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.439 and he's deceased now and we become super super friends. 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.320 But he got hooked in with Frank Hale through muscle picking, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.760 and he brought it back to Oklahoma and there was 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.919 commercial fishermen on Grand Lake, and he got with that 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.520 commercial fisherman and we thought nothing about it. They were 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.119 they had always been able to take paddlefish commercially on 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:12.240 Grand Lake with nets, and we started seeing them really 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.239 targeting paddlefish. They never targeted it before because it's not 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.720 it's not that it's not as good as flat it's okay. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.960 It's really okay if it's taken care of, but it's 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.360 not like being a flathead or a blue cat. We 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.840 we kind of caught window of it here in Oklahoma 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:31.520 that there was some stuff going on, and I was 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.760 the supervisor for this area, and so we started working 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.639 it and we ended up catching a bunch out of 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.560 Illinois coming in. There was some people that I know, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.400 those people at Claremore and and they were pretty well 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.720 going to the same market that we found out. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.520 Over these these are just Oklahoma's. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.320 Yeah, these were, but they were connected for out of 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.560 state because of the muscle picking, and the muscle pickers 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:01.840 were the netters, and so it happened nationwide. 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.160 This Frank Hale out of Tennessee was one of the 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:10.080 first major paddlefish caviar kingpins in the US, and he 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.880 started in the late nineteen eighties. In two thousand and four, 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.159 he'd be convicted of eleven charges in relation to the 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.160 Lacy Act. There was an article written about Frank Hale 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.800 and his caviar in the New York Times in nineteen 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:27.320 ninety and Oklahoma and Billy Wishard was a muscle picker 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.800 who commercially gathered muscles and learned about paddlefish caviar from Frank. 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.719 You gotta remember Billy, he'll be a major player in 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:40.879 this story. But also know that commercial fishing was outlawed 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.919 in Oklahoma in nineteen seventy four. This is also an 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.560 important part of the story, so there was no legal 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.679 way to sell paddlefish eggs in Oklahoma. 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.640 In Oklahoma, we do not have commercial fishing like they 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.520 do up and down the Mississippi River Ohio River areas, 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:03.119 and those commercial fisherman will target paddlefish, and in those states, 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.159 from what I understand, they are tightly regulated, even the 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:11.880 commercial fishing, but that is kind of what led the problem. 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.280 Part of the problem in Oklahoma is that you can 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.720 come to Oklahoma and catch all the paddlefish you could 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.320 ever want to catch, and in other states you can't 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:19.640 do that. 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.000 So there was no regulation on how many you could take. 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.520 It's been kind of a progression when I first moved 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.200 to this area and we started really working them hard 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.720 that we had a fish a three fish limit per 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.640 day per day, okay, but you had the first three 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.359 fish you caught, you had to keep them. There was 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:40.159 no calling, there was no throwing, catching release. That in 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.080 and up self led to problems. If a person caught 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.439 a paddlefish and he was just that long, you had 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.720 to keep him and once you caught three, you were done. Well. 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:51.680 People didn't want to do that, and they would catch 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.280 and release and that's kind of what we watched for. 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.440 And then as we learned more, I say we, as 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.960 the waldleyfe Department learned more about the paddlefish, some rule 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.879 changes were made to restrict sport take. You know, all 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:11.000 we have is sport fishing, and it's progressed up to 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:15.280 today where it's a two fish limit per year and 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:18.080 that's all you can take is two fish per calendar year. 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:28.640 There are seven states that allow commercial paddlefish harvest Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:33.440 and Mississippi. However, these markets for that caviar is highly regulated. 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:37.000 So that's exactly why a place like Oklahoma, without the 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.840 pressure of commercial fishing, became a holy land for black 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:45.640 market spoonbilt caviar. Now, my friends, we have a solid 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:50.320 foundation to understand the dynamics for the early years of 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:55.439 this illegal activity. I now want to get to know 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.280 game Board and Keith Green a little better. And here's 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.280 some story of busting egg poachers. And not to foreshadow 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.360 too much, but his law enforcement career would be the 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.880 backdrop to establish one of the most creative conservation programs 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:15.600 ever created. Here's Keith with some family history. 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.000 The best thing that probably ever happened to me was 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:24.560 my game warning career. I loved every minute of it. 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:27.160 I was My dad was pretty much of a poacher, 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:32.320 he really, Yeah, he got to hunt one day a 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.439 week and that was on Saturdays, and he would be 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:39.119 quill hunting. We'd started in the morning, quit in the evening. 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:42.520 He took advantage of that day of that day and. 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:45.000 We're hunted the same places for thirty years, you know, 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:47.920 and never heard. He knew what he would The last 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.080 thing he'd ever wanted to do was would hurt a population. 0:24:51.240 --> 0:24:53.400 So I was raised on the other side a little bit. 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:57.080 So it really helped me in when I become a 0:24:57.080 --> 0:24:58.680 game warden and I got a degree in wallife. He 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:02.760 called you from an Oklahoma university and you think, well, 0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:05.240 it helped you catch them, And it did that, but 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:09.320 it also helped my mental state towards somebody doing a 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.439 violation just because they were doing a violation, they were 0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:16.439 in a no good sorry center of it, and so, 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:19.760