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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to an episode. I'm so excited about Whipsmarti's one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite people is here today. I have had

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Speaker 1: the pleasure of getting to know this guest over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years, and really in the last year

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Speaker 1: we've become real, tried and true friends. Today my guest

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Speaker 1: is Dylan mulvaney. She is an American social media personality

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Speaker 1: who has detailed her gender transition in daily videos published

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Speaker 1: on TikTok since early twenty twenty two. She was able

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Speaker 1: to advocate for her community interviewing the President of the

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Speaker 1: United States, Joe Biden in twenty twenty two, during which

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Speaker 1: they spoke about trans rites and I'm sure you all

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Speaker 1: saw that. In twenty twenty three, a very sweet partnership

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Speaker 1: because Dylan, like me, is a beer girly with bud

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Speaker 1: light led to really terrifying violence, calls for a boycott.

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Speaker 1: A lot of very right wing conservative folks went ham

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Speaker 1: on this young woman in a way that was really

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Speaker 1: hard to watch. And yet Dylan has managed to maintain

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Speaker 1: her composure to be vulnerable about what this experience is

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Speaker 1: simply trying to let a little more light and a

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Speaker 1: little more love into journeys like hers, and really, as

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Speaker 1: she likes to say, the transition that we're all in

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Speaker 1: throughout our lives, whether it's figuring out who we are,

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Speaker 1: who we love, what we're passionate about, what we want

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Speaker 1: to do with our careers. In her mind, we all

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Speaker 1: have so much more in common than not. And I'm

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Speaker 1: so amazed by the way she's maintained this beautiful composure

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Speaker 1: in a world that has meant She's amassed more than

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Speaker 1: ten million followers on TikTok, had over billion views on

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Speaker 1: her videos, and she deals with both the courage that

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Speaker 1: she's exhibiting in the world and how that motivates others,

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Speaker 1: but also how being courageous in public can really put

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Speaker 1: a target on your back. She is just so inspiring

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Speaker 1: to me and also one of the kindest, funniest, goofiest,

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Speaker 1: sweetest people that I know, and I'm so excited for

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Speaker 1: all of you to get to know her today with me,

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Speaker 1: let's get to it. I feel really excited in particular

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Speaker 1: to ask you this question, probably of all people, because

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Speaker 1: you know, everyone I sit down across from is doing

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Speaker 1: something inspiring, is like living their most creative life is

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Speaker 1: reminding all of us to be courageous. And I always think, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether you're a senator or a public figure,

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Speaker 1: you know who you are as the adult that you are.

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Speaker 1: But I'm always really curious if there's through lines that

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Speaker 1: people can see from today's vantage point when they look

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Speaker 1: back at their childhood when they're like, you know, eight

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Speaker 1: or nine years old, when things are really kind of formative.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's a whole other interesting layer to

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Speaker 1: that first question for you because of the path your

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Speaker 1: life has taking you on. Do you, as you sit

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Speaker 1: in your days of girlhood to early shout out the single,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like you always saw Dylan in yourself

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Speaker 1: even when you were a little kid.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I think that was when I was the most

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Speaker 2: Dylan and the most feminine and the most fun and free.

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Speaker 2: And I actually I stripped so many parts of myself

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Speaker 2: away and it became sort of a shadow version.

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Speaker 3: Of myself for a really long time. But I keep.

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Speaker 2: Refinding those parts, and then they get taken away again

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Speaker 2: or I push them to the side, and then I

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Speaker 2: rEFInd them.

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Speaker 3: I find the courage to tap back into that person.

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Speaker 2: But I think like, if I really look back at

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Speaker 2: the through line, it's I am a musical theater girl

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Speaker 2: nerd who just wants to make people laugh and make

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Speaker 2: people smile and see the good and that's like always

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Speaker 2: who I have been like since. I like it is

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Speaker 2: funny now having experienced so many other parts of life

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Speaker 2: than I would have ever expected that I would would

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Speaker 2: get to, including my transition, but also career and relationships

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Speaker 2: and all these things that I never thought that I

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Speaker 2: would find myself in. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: my favorite thing is still like going to playbill dot

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Speaker 2: com and like looking to see what's going on on

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Speaker 2: Broadway right now, or listening to Wicket in my car

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Speaker 2: and belting it out with my best friend. But that

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Speaker 2: is so me at my core. And the more that

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Speaker 2: I can come back to that little kid that just

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Speaker 2: wanted to make people laugh and wanted to sing show tunes,

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Speaker 2: like that's the happiest, and that is when I am

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Speaker 2: the happiest. So I think that's that's kind of where

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Speaker 2: I'm at.

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Speaker 1: I love that. So if you think of yourself as

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Speaker 1: a little kid and what you wanted to be when

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Speaker 1: you grew up, are you are you doing everything and

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Speaker 1: more that you wanted when you wanted, when you thought

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Speaker 1: about your future, I.

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Speaker 2: Think I'm doing a little too much in a way,

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Speaker 2: like I'm a little extra.

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Speaker 3: I'm definitely a little extra.

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Speaker 2: I think what would make my my younger self so

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Speaker 2: happy is to be back up on stage as much

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Speaker 2: as possible and whatever capacity that is. And that's kind

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Speaker 2: of the next goal is to get back got there.

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Speaker 2: But it's also you know, when people put you in

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Speaker 2: a box so they see you as this one thing,

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Speaker 2: it can be really hard to then convince people of

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Speaker 2: the other skills that you have or the other sides

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Speaker 2: to your life. And I'm sure that you've been in

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Speaker 2: that place too, with like specific roles that once you played,

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Speaker 2: people are like, oh, that is who you are, that's

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Speaker 2: what you're capable of. Have you found that being the

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Speaker 2: case for your life, like after you do some of

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Speaker 2: these iconic projects.

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Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh, completely, Because what I've learned is that

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Speaker 1: like our sort of surface memory is long, but our

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Speaker 1: bigger sort of lifelong memories seem to be very short.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's because you know, everyone's doing their

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Speaker 1: own thing, they're not thinking about other people oh so much.

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Speaker 1: But it was a really wild thing to like, for example,

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Speaker 1: when I first started on One Tree Hill, like to

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Speaker 1: be brought in as the comic relief on the show

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Speaker 1: and to be a source of comedy. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: I did a couple of years of like playing this

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Speaker 1: very and I loved her too, but this very tough

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Speaker 1: like former addict cop, and people were like, she's so

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Speaker 1: good at like being serious and doing action, but can

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Speaker 1: she do comedy? And I was like, I did that

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Speaker 1: for nine years, like what And I would watch people

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Speaker 1: go like, oh my god, we forgot or vice versa.

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Speaker 1: Like somebody would be like, well she you know, she

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Speaker 1: played this fashion designer who was so funny for so long,

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Speaker 1: like can she be tough? And I was like, I

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Speaker 1: do all my own stunts, you guys. People just forget

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Speaker 1: and that's okay.

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Speaker 2: Well for example, right, like, I think the way that

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Speaker 2: I've been able to like build an audience has been

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Speaker 2: on social media, and it's been really interesting to sort

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Speaker 2: of try to steer people from just seeing me as

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Speaker 2: a trans woman that talks about her journey to then

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Speaker 2: sharing the other parts.

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Speaker 3: Of my life.

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Speaker 2: And something that's been very interesting to watch is as

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Speaker 2: I'm putting out like singing videos, for example, like people like,

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Speaker 2: still I've been putting out singing videos for years. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and and someone like I posted one yesterday and they're like.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea you could sing and you.

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Speaker 2: Go, I'm like, we're wait what, Like We're like obviously

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Speaker 2: that wasn't on their side of the for you page

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Speaker 2: or or but that teaches me like, oh, I have

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Speaker 2: to keep showing them because there's still people that are learning.

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Speaker 2: And I think also we sometimes put an expectation of like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we do this one thing, and that means that people

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Speaker 2: will get it, and they just don't all that like

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Speaker 2: there and even you know, my song came out last

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Speaker 2: week or two weeks ago, and I kind of assumed

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Speaker 2: people would understand the nuance of the song or would

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Speaker 2: understand like the intentions behind a song. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: after a few days of discourse, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I think I need to tell I need to talk

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Speaker 2: to people about what.

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Speaker 3: This is like.

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Speaker 2: And especially I think because my perspective is differ and

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Speaker 2: as a trans person, not everyone is going to automatically

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Speaker 2: understand where I'm coming from or the kinds of things

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Speaker 2: that I feel called to sharing, and so as like,

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Speaker 2: there are moments where you have to let people in.

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Speaker 2: And you do have to let them whether it's a

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Speaker 2: joke or something really vulnerable or something as long as you.

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Speaker 3: Feel ready to share that thing.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's also a tricky part of what

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Speaker 2: we're both navigating, is like when do you let people

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Speaker 2: in and when do you keep things for yourself?

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Speaker 1: Girl, this is my journey.

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Speaker 2: I always assume people would know me as like a character,

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Speaker 2: whether it's in a television show or on stage, and

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Speaker 2: then people knew me in my personhood from the Internet,

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Speaker 2: and I was conditioned to believe that I was only

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Speaker 2: as good as my last video, and that if I

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Speaker 2: didn't put something out every single day, that I was

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Speaker 2: no longer interesting or like worthy of the success. And

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Speaker 2: you get to a place where, once you've talked about,

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Speaker 2: you know, a certain number of things, you're like, oh my,

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Speaker 2: I guess I have to talk about this now, or

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't think I'm fully ready.

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Speaker 3: But let's let's talk about this. And it gets tricky because.

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Speaker 2: None of your audience is ever going to say, oh, Dylan,

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Speaker 2: don't share that.

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Speaker 3: We don't want to hear that right now.

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Speaker 2: Like everybody, they want whatever they can get, and especially

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Speaker 2: the people that you know, love you or fascinated by you,

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Speaker 2: or like you feel like it's a parasocial relationship. And

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Speaker 2: so scaling that back has been so scary because I

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Speaker 2: sort of set this precedent that I'm going to share

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Speaker 2: my entire life with you and then to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: just kidding, not everything that can be frustrating to, you know,

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Speaker 2: the people that have seen your journey. But I also

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Speaker 2: think that as long as I'm keeping them updated with

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Speaker 2: the why and the hey, I need to take care

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Speaker 2: of whether it's my mental health or my relationships or

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Speaker 2: so much of.

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Speaker 3: My personal life kind of fell to.

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Speaker 2: Like the shit show of of like the behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: and then I was keeping this really strong front on

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Speaker 2: for for the media and for my following, and now

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Speaker 2: I have, like I have, I'm playing cleanup on the

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Speaker 2: rest of my life.

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Speaker 3: And I will say, like.

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Speaker 2: Meeting your group of friends, the you know, Jedediah, brit Julianne,

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Speaker 2: like those people, you all have really taught me how

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Speaker 2: to like enjoy life and savor things just for me

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Speaker 2: and not for Like I think I was confusing going

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Speaker 2: to an event as like a social engagement, where like

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Speaker 2: it was actually kind of work, like like we were

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Speaker 2: there for a specific reason or were there. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the times I get invited somewhere to like make content,

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Speaker 2: and and that's tricky too, because I'm like, oh, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm here because they want me to do this thing,

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Speaker 2: and and when I'm with you all, it's often in

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Speaker 2: a backyard around a fire pit, or you know, hopefully

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Speaker 2: planning a camping trip, or you know, going and doing

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Speaker 2: things with people that like are only interested in just

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Speaker 2: getting to know you better as a person, and you

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Speaker 2: leave feeling more filled than emptied. And that's been I

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Speaker 2: think my greatest sort of joy this past year has

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Speaker 2: been like building friendships back up and like savoring the

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Speaker 2: little personal relationships in my life and.

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Speaker 3: Meeting new people.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know that like that group of friends

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Speaker 2: did you how did you find them? And they what

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Speaker 2: are they to you?

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Speaker 1: I mean definitely, I think having really healthy relationships is

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Speaker 1: the foundation of a healthy life. And for me, it's

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Speaker 1: like crazy to think that it's almost twenty years ago now,

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Speaker 1: before conferences were are cool and like you know, branded

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Speaker 1: and everybody wanted to go to them. I was at

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Speaker 1: a conference meeting other people who wanted to make the

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Speaker 1: world a better place, and that's where Jed and I

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Speaker 1: became friends. We had been best friends ever since, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I was part of the gang that convinced

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Speaker 1: him and Kenny to move to LA from San Diego.

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Speaker 1: And you know I met Britt through them because she

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Speaker 1: had volunteered for their nonprofit right out of high school.

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Speaker 1: And like we really we built a community based on service,

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Speaker 1: which was always a really big deal. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, we were friends before social media. We've we've

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Speaker 1: worked kind of through it. And when you talk about

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Speaker 1: you know, what you give versus what you hold for yourself,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel that in my bones because I think

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Speaker 1: there's something really important to remember about the fact that

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Speaker 1: most of us lived a life before there was the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to have part of your life online. And I

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Speaker 1: think when you are an advocate, when you want to

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Speaker 1: show up to encourage other people to do the same,

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Speaker 1: to make other people feel safe to be who they are,

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Speaker 1: that is wonderful. And you have to remember that it's

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Speaker 1: also not your reality. It's a piece of it. Like

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Speaker 1: you said, people who follow you and think they see

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Speaker 1: your content every day will miss entire things. Now it's

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Speaker 1: a big deal if ten percent of your audience engages

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Speaker 1: with something you post, So you have to think about

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Speaker 1: how many people just don't see things yet, how many

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Speaker 1: people are chronically online and perhaps don't even realize that

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Speaker 1: in their subconscious they assume that if they don't see it,

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Speaker 1: it isn't happening, or vice versa, when you have a

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Speaker 1: whole life happening. And I think there's also this weird

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Speaker 1: thing where people want the optics to continue, They want

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Speaker 1: the numbers to continue, they want they want that parasocial

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Speaker 1: fame to continue. You know, now I'm beginning to really

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Speaker 1: see through like people trying to win optics wars, for example,

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Speaker 1: Like when people are going through big life changes or whatever,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, somebody who's out there trying to win

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Speaker 1: the optics war is doing so because they're worried about

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Speaker 1: what else is going to come out. Interesting, like, I've

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Speaker 1: started to value people who stay quiet and who go slow,

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Speaker 1: and who have their experiences before they talk about them

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Speaker 1: so they can talk about them in healthy and honest ways.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think I could have seen that five

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Speaker 1: years ago, but I see it now really clearly, and

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Speaker 1: so I actually think it's a sign of emotional health

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Speaker 1: and of really good self care when you have the

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Speaker 1: capability to say, I'm not really ready to share about this.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to take my time and make sure when

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Speaker 1: I do that it's not reactive, that it's authentic and honest,

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Speaker 1: that it's kind to everyone, and as much as it

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Speaker 1: can be, Like, I find that to be really really valuable.

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Speaker 1: And so even in our friendship, like we became friendly

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Speaker 1: with each other online, but then in the interactions we

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Speaker 1: began having offline, I was like, Oh, that's a whole

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Speaker 1: person that I really want to know, support and be

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Speaker 1: around for. And I really value that, and I value

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Speaker 1: that in all my relationships like you're talking.

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Speaker 2: About, I felt the same way, like when getting to

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Speaker 2: meet you and actually getting to like talk about the

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Speaker 2: very real things, like I think because we both share

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Speaker 2: parts of our lives, and then getting to share other

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Speaker 2: parts of our lives just the two of us was

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Speaker 2: so epic.

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Speaker 3: But what I see on are you on? Do you

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Speaker 3: scroll a lot on TikTok? Not?

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Speaker 1: Really, I'm not that great at it. My friends are

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Speaker 1: constantly trying to like get me to do it, so

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Speaker 1: like I'll get like sections of videos from friends and

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Speaker 1: then like depending on what people are sending me, it'll

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Speaker 1: like show me more of that in the algorithm. But

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Speaker 1: I probably I spend like a night on TikTok, like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, every three weeks. I also my friends

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Speaker 1: make fun of me. They're like, you're such a boomer

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Speaker 1: because every video everyone's ever sent to me, like I

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Speaker 1: save so I can like have it as a resource.

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Speaker 1: And they're like, TikTok is not pinterest, like what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? And I'm like, I don't know how any

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Speaker 1: of this works.

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Speaker 2: I that is that you saying that you only scroll

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Speaker 2: like every three weeks is the healthiest thing I've.

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Speaker 3: Ever heard in my entire life.

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Speaker 1: I can't do it anymore because I really will get

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Speaker 1: lost in it. And like I'm such an adult and

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Speaker 1: I get lost in it. I can't imagine what it's

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Speaker 1: like for teens who've never not had it. It scares me.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's I think it's designed to be addictive.

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Speaker 2: I also think what's funny is like I'm it's my job,

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Speaker 2: like it's my primary income, and I'm like the first

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Speaker 2: person and be like, oh, you don't need to be

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Speaker 2: on there every night, like because I am. I really

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Speaker 2: like I have a deep addiction to it. I'm also

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Speaker 2: wildly grateful to it because I think it's one It's

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Speaker 2: very different than like even Instagram, where you know, Instagram,

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Speaker 2: it takes kind of a long time to build up

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Speaker 2: an audience and for people to find you, and but

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Speaker 2: TikTok Is is like it was instantaneous, like a straight shot.

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Speaker 3: To the moon.

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Speaker 1: It felt it was fast for you.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I think I had like a million

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Speaker 2: followers in seventeen days.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, babe, the pressure. And now a word

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Speaker 1: from our wonderful sponsors before we go into more of

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Speaker 1: this internet identity. I actually this is reminding me or

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Speaker 1: just pinging my brain that I haven't asked this question,

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Speaker 1: which I think in some ways must overlap for you

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Speaker 1: because you are young, you are on social media. You

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Speaker 1: have had this really fast rise which has come with yes,

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Speaker 1: a big audience and supports some but also like wild

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Speaker 1: ass backlash. How you've had to discover your social media

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Speaker 1: identity certainly, But has that helped you in the discovery

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Speaker 1: process of your gender identity too, or did that feel

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Speaker 1: like it was always happening for you as a kid,

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Speaker 1: you always knew that you always knew who you were

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Speaker 1: and that your body wasn't aligning, like how did the

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Speaker 1: first discovery happen? And how does the internet play into it.

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Speaker 2: I came out at four years old to my mom

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Speaker 2: as a girl, and that was it was the year

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Speaker 2: two thousand or two thousand and one. And there's no

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Speaker 2: judgment in my heart for not getting to like fulfill

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Speaker 2: that prophecy, because you know, it was a very different time.

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Speaker 2: The resources, especially for trans youth were so different, and

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Speaker 2: my family just trying their best and.

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Speaker 1: Well and your family's pretty conservative, right, yeah, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: I think what is I've always come from the place

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Speaker 2: of like I never want to live in like the

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Speaker 2: what ifs, and and even you know, throughout high school,

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Speaker 2: I remember puberty was a very sensitive time because I

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Speaker 2: didn't like what was happening to my body and I

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Speaker 2: was started lashing out and it was fascinating too. I

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Speaker 2: actually like I was wearing women's clothes and you know,

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Speaker 2: how to purse at school, and like throughout high school,

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Speaker 2: and I really like always walked to the beat of

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Speaker 2: my own drum. And but I overall, like I loved theater.

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Speaker 2: It was my favorite thing. And I knew to be

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Speaker 2: successful in commercial theater that like I couldn't be that woman.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't be that feminine of a human. So I

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Speaker 2: kind of like sort of stripped those parts away and

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Speaker 2: got into the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music and became this

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Speaker 2: really clean cut J crew type and it worked, like

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Speaker 2: I got Book of Mormon the musical right after college,

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Speaker 2: and I but like those that gender dysphoria was always there.

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Speaker 2: And that's where like the Internet did not really like

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Speaker 2: the there are parts of me sharing my transition journey

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Speaker 2: online that I guess were helpful, And a lot of

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Speaker 2: that comes back to like the support from people, like

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Speaker 2: the kind messages, the you know, the messages from parents

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Speaker 2: that say, hey, you know my kid's been going through this.

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Speaker 2: You're the kind of the link between the two of us,

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Speaker 2: and we love watching your videos together.

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Speaker 3: Like that makes it worth it.

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Speaker 2: The extreme amounts of like hate and transphobia and misgendering

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Speaker 2: like that definitely doesn't help. And I have to constantly

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Speaker 2: be like, okay, is this work? Like is you putting

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Speaker 2: yourself out there right now? Like is this it to

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Speaker 2: a detriment of of your transition? Luckily, I mean I

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Speaker 2: was on hormones for months before I made my first

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Speaker 2: days girlhood video. So that was, you know, something I

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Speaker 2: had like come out to my family and friends and

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Speaker 2: everything like that beforehand.

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Speaker 3: I also.

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Speaker 2: Like I went by bay them pronouns for the year

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Speaker 2: before I even came out as a woman, and so

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Speaker 2: there was like quite the lead up. But I never

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Speaker 2: expected to like take it online. I was doing stand

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Speaker 2: up comedy in LA and my first video is supposed

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Speaker 2: to be sort of this like comedy take on on,

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Speaker 2: like a coming out video, and then it turned into

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Speaker 2: something so much more.

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Speaker 3: But that was it was always such a huge part

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Speaker 3: of me.

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Speaker 2: And in what's scary I think is like how the

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Speaker 2: media is villainizing trans people right now. It's it's quite

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Speaker 2: scary because I think back to that, you know, the

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Speaker 2: eight or nine year old we were talking to at

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Speaker 2: the beginning of this this SPoD and I was the

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Speaker 2: least confrontational, least like rock the boat kind of person,

402
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: kid human girl, and so all of these moments of

403
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Speaker 2: like seeing myself being perceived as like a villain is

404
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Speaker 2: so insane to me because I'm like, we're are they

405
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Speaker 2: not seeing the Broadway nerdy theater kid that most of

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Speaker 2: my friends get to see and like the it And

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Speaker 2: that's where I have to look around my life and

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Speaker 2: I see specifically that the women that are in my

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Speaker 2: life and support me, and I go, oh, these are

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Speaker 2: the people that I want to have on side or

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Speaker 2: on my side, not conservative media outlets or political figures

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00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 2: or you know, like I've got the support around the

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Speaker 2: fire pit, and I've got the support from my best

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Speaker 2: friend Lily, who has known me for seventeen years. I've

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Speaker 2: got the support of my and my sister. I've got

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Speaker 2: the support of you just really awesome human beings. And

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Speaker 2: if that can be a testament enough to this being

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Speaker 2: who I am and who I've always been, then that's

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Speaker 2: enough for me.

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Speaker 3: But back to sort of like the TikTok of it all.

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Speaker 2: What worries me that I see happening a lot is

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Speaker 2: because you were talking about, you know, people kind of

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00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: like stirring up just to stir up online, I see

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Speaker 2: a lot of like the clickbait stuff is getting really bad.

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Speaker 3: That's really bad.

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Speaker 2: And I even see certain creators like because it performs well,

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Speaker 2: like some really transphobic content that starts getting pushed by

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Speaker 2: algorithms on these apps, and so other people are like, oh,

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00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: that's a way to get views or that's a person

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Speaker 2: to talk about. And even I've seen like queer creators

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00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: is talking about other queer creators in certain ways that

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Speaker 2: it just like it feels really unproductive to like pushing

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Speaker 2: us forward as as a community. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I just get nervous about like, I never want to

435
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: post anything that's gonna, you know, set anyone back. I

436
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: never want to put anything out there that is, you know,

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Speaker 2: hurtful to anyone else.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's a slippery slope. But I will say.

439
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: That I'm finding I'm finding those moments for myself to

440
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 2: keep close good.

441
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm glad, you know. I think it is really important

442
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: for us, especially at a time where we treat social

443
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: media like currency, but we also forget how dangerous it

444
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: can be. And I think you have to be really

445
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: really clear, you know, we all need to self interrogate

446
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: and say how do I want to participate in this

447
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: space and what is this for? And I think to

448
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: your point, when we're talking about this rise in really

449
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: dangerous rhetoric that hurts already at risk populations, like one

450
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: of the things that feels really important for me to

451
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: constantly point out to people because I think it's really

452
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 1: I think it's really crucial that we make sure that

453
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: the people who are the most affected by something are

454
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: not the people who have to scream about it from

455
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: the rooftops. Like, it's the reason that as women we

456
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: need men to be talking about rape culture because hello,

457
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: like they're the perpetrators of this violence by and large,

458
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: And I think is an incredibly important reason why. You know,

459
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: for us, as white women, we need to talk about

460
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: the risks that society has baked into women of color.

461
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: And I think it's incredibly important for cisgendered women to

462
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: be really clear about how dangerous the world is for

463
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: trans women. And it is the reason last March I

464
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: was in New York for a big ceremony for the

465
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: National Institute of Reproductive Health. Obviously, like our reproductive freedom

466
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: is on the line. The Republicans are trying to ban

467
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: reproductive care and abortion, and they're also trying to ban IVF.

468
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: So like, hello, anyone who wanted to say a year

469
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: ago that this was not just simply to control women,

470
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, the writing's on the wall now. We've

471
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: been telling you welcome to this terrible party we're all

472
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: at that we don't want to be at, and at

473
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: this event. The thing I wanted to point out to

474
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: use my time. You know, they gave me an award.

475
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: It was very nice. It's glass, it's beautiful. I was like, look,

476
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think there's any conversation we need

477
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: to be having other than if we are not centering

478
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: trans women and our reproductive advocacy, we're failing. Because we

479
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: saw in twenty twenty three and it's continued now more

480
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: historically conservative women showing up to vote in support of abortion,

481
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: in support of reproductive rights access because by the way

482
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: abortion birth control IVF, it's all tied. And in the

483
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: states where abortion is the most easily accessible, women have

484
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: the least number of abortions. Like, whether you like it

485
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: or not, these are just the facts. If you don't

486
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: want to have one, don't have one. We're moving on.

487
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: And I said to this room, I was like, make

488
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: no mistake. The fact that conservative women in droves are

489
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,959
Speaker 1: showing up to vote on abortion in support means that

490
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: these conservative folks who only get voted for when they

491
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: can create outrage, have to figure out a new way

492
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: to attack bodily autonomy. And it is why you see

493
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: the most legislation against the LGBTQ plus community in history,

494
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: over six hundred bills at this point. And it is

495
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: why they are going after trans kids, trans athletes, trans people.

496
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: It's why you're seeing a surge in you know, the

497
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: assault in murder of our trans communities in this country,

498
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: Like they are doing this to our most vulnerable population

499
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: so that they can continue to make attacks on bodily

500
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: autonomy seem acceptable, they can make bodily autonomy seem dangerous.

501
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: Like to be clear, my sweet angel, you, being this

502
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: beautiful girl that you have always been does nothing to

503
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: my womanhood but make me feel more excited to wear

504
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: pink and like I'm your friends who's always wearing black,

505
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: And when I'm with you, I'm like, oh my god,

506
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: I need a pink cashmir swater. Like that's it. And

507
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: we must be clear, like our communities have to be

508
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: really clear about what's going on, how insidious it is,

509
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: and how we have to show up for each other.

510
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: And I know I've said this to you in private,

511
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: but I will say it on my podcast. Anybody who

512
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: focks with you, fockx with me, Like let's go, we're

513
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: in it together.

514
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: I'm in it with you, And you know, speaking back

515
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: to like the overturning of Roe v Wade. I remember

516
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: it was actually like earlier on in my series of

517
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: Days of Girlhood, within my first year of transition, and

518
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 2: I was learning so much about not like it was

519
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: kind of catching up to, you know, because I like,

520
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: I wasn't as clued in as shinny women on.

521
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: Well you mean you don't know everything about everything at

522
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: every moment of your whole life?

523
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: Wow, No, not yet.

524
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: And I but I made a video that day because

525
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: I really thought about how what we are asking for

526
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: is not very different, and it is its permission over

527
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: our own bodies. And funny enough, the way that people

528
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: are attacking gender firm and care, A lot of the

529
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: times people attacking it are the people that are actually

530
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: getting the same surgeries but just calling it something different.

531
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: Or I think that there's there's such a deep connection

532
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: between a transnsists woman if they'll let it happen and let.

533
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: It be there.

534
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: Because the more that we focus on our differences, they

535
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: become very obvious and very factual. But the more that

536
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: we focus on what we have in common, that's when

537
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: like true connection and like productivity can happen.

538
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: Because I want to honor every single version of womanhood.

539
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 3: I want to.

540
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: Find whatever it is in a feminine person, whether that's

541
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: a transperson or this person's idea of what a woman

542
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: is to them, and then I want to be able

543
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: to honor that within myself and not feel apologetic about

544
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: what that means to me. And even with the song

545
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: coming out, people like assumed that my version of girlhood

546
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: or womanhood is this very frivolous thing, or it's this

547
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: very sort of juvenile thing, and it's so not. There's

548
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: so much pain, there's so much resentment and anger and

549
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: jealousy and all these things that are within me that

550
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: are my womanhood. And yet I wanted to make a

551
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: really fun, frivolous song of like two percent of what

552
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: my experience has been. And yet people then, like we

553
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: talked about at the beginning, they put you in a

554
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: box and so they say this is who you are,

555
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 2: this is who you think we are, and it's not.

556
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: And I think the more that we can have conversations

557
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: like this one, the closer we get to the tricky

558
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: part is is than having those conversations with people who

559
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: maybe don't feel the same way or aren't on the

560
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: same page yet and I've had a lot of those

561
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: in my personal life, Like you know, even with the

562
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: women in my.

563
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: Family who I am.

564
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: A lot of people's first trans person that they think

565
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: they've met, at least they probably met others, but they

566
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: didn't know.

567
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 3: And I've watched.

568
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: Things get better and and things heal, and people start

569
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: to understand when they want to, And those who had

570
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: a personal connection with me before my transition, most if

571
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: not all, have found some sort of peace with me

572
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: stepping into my because it's it's not to be.

573
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: What's it called.

574
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: It's not an opinion of someone to say that, like

575
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: I am one hundred percent doing better than I was

576
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: like before I stepped into my true self, and anyone

577
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: that knew me before can tell you that. And so

578
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: I'm really interested on those like the granular relationship level

579
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: of like outside of social media, outside of making videos

580
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: for millions of people, when I meet someone that maybe

581
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: doesn't understand someone like me, that I can leave them

582
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: maybe even just a sliver of less resentful than they

583
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: were going in to the relationship.

584
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. And now a word from our

585
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too,

586
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: you know, I can't imagine that it's easy to share

587
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: your life and the lessons you're learning with people you

588
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: know you have a very different journey. But I think

589
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: about a guest from season one on Work in Progress,

590
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: my friend May Martin, who you know made an incredible

591
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: show on Netflix. Feel good for everyone listening about their

592
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: whole journey. You know, back when May came on the podcast,

593
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: they were still using both she and they pronouns. They

594
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: hadn't had TOP surgery yet, and I've used their story

595
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: from their stand up special a bunch in some of

596
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: the advocacy work that I do offline with folks, and

597
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: they said something that I thought was so profound about,

598
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, having had tops and having been on tea

599
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: for a year, and said, look, it's not that it

600
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: shifted my life in some way and everything is different

601
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: and everything, you know I'm paraphrasing, but not like everything

602
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: is perfect and amazing and I've never been sad. I'm

603
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: just not in agony every second of every day. I

604
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: have a little space to breathe in my own body.

605
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: And listening to them talk about it, like I've brought

606
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 1: that up to people who don't quite get it yet

607
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: and said why would you deny anybody the right to

608
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: live with less agony, to be able to breathe more

609
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: comfortably in their body. Their body has nothing to do

610
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: with you. And so I think for everyone who's on

611
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: any version of a journey to figure out who they are,

612
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: we should be supportive. We should be excited because people's joy,

613
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: whether it's finding love or learning to love themselves, or

614
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: queerness or transness or any any version of it, is

615
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: about coming home to them. Yeah, and that I think

616
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: is profound, and I will say, if I may, I

617
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: think it's also why a lot of people who don't

618
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: have friends in the way that I'm lucky enough to

619
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 1: have you and other folks like may in my life

620
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: maybe are afraid because you're choosing joy in the face

621
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: of so much danger and judgment in the world. Like

622
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: it is such an act of freedom, and I think

623
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't feel free, and so they

624
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: are very intimidated by people who will pursue their own

625
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: freedom no matter what, people who will not turn their

626
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: backs on themselves anymore. I think it can be very confronting,

627
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: and it's easier to be confronted and react with anger

628
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: than to be confronted and admit.

629
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: You are afraid, right, And a lot of people go

630
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: to confront my success and my wins and my really

631
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: come up and they'll challenge it as like, oh, she

632
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: transitioned to get famous or she is fit because oh

633
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: my gosh, yes, one hundred.

634
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: People say that to you. Yes, you're like cool, Yeah,

635
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: I just put myself at like immense risk of violence

636
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: and decided to do one of the hardest things in

637
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: the world for TikTok.

638
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: No. They were like, this washed up gay man, and

639
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, honey.

640
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: I was doing a Broadway musical, Like I wasn't exactly

641
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: in the worst place in the world, no, I But

642
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: what I find so fascinating about that thought process is

643
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: like I believe that I stepped in and told the

644
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: world this is who I am, and that's when the

645
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: world decided, Okay, now we're ready to introduce everyone to

646
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 2: her because.

647
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: She is who she's supposed to be now.

648
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: And that is the tricky thing about simultaneously finding this

649
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: success but also being in the beginnings of a transition.

650
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 2: I'm only now two years in and I meet you know,

651
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: trans women who are fifteen, twenty thirty years into their

652
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 2: journeys and They're like, girl, just you just you wait.

653
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 2: And I already feel so differently about things that I've

654
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: said a year ago or my first you know, I've

655
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: watched like videos of myself.

656
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 3: And just like cringe. You'd be like, oh my god,

657
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: what was I knowing?

658
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: Okay, wait what does that mean? Though? Like what does

659
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: that feel like when you when you say I look

660
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: back and go, oh, like what do you what do

661
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: you see? What's different?

662
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 3: It reminds me of that movie eighth Grade.

663
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: That's like the sort of the awkward you know, like

664
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: in a way, I'm going through a second puberty because.

665
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 3: My body's changing.

666
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: I'm trying to wrap my head around these really complex

667
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: subjects and stepping into conversations that I've never been in

668
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: before even had heard of before, and now I'm being

669
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: platformed to speak on them. And I I think I'm

670
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 2: like watching sort of like my awkward self evolve and

671
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: grow and actually taking account of what I can speak on,

672
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: what I'm ready to. And then it's also like, you know,

673
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: sometimes we look back at ourselves and like with a haircut.

674
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: And we're like, what were what was I thinking? And

675
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: it's similar in the way I.

676
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: Got famous in the early aughts. My every bad haircut

677
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: I've ever had is memorialized on television. It's my nightmares.

678
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: And but then isn't there something great about like being like,

679
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 2: well I did that, Like that was me and owning

680
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: it and being like I really lead to people had

681
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: the media literacy and the nuance to understand that we

682
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 2: can change and we we.

683
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 3: We evolve from those people.

684
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 2: And and while that might have been the reason that

685
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: they liked me in the first place, that me growing

686
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: up and me stepping into adulthood in a more deeply

687
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 2: complex way is actually what they should want from me,

688
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 2: and not to be like forever infanto. Yeah, And I

689
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: think with trans women, we often are deeply infantilized or

690
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: deeply sexualized because people don't really know where else to

691
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 2: put us. And I leaned into infantilization because I was

692
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 2: so scared of being sexualized that I thought it was

693
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: easier to kind of like put that part of my

694
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 2: life away, you know, to be palatable, to be liked,

695
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: to be non threatening. And now that's something that I'm

696
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: finding again, like finding that balance of like, Okay, I

697
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 2: feel sexy, how how do I share that with the world?

698
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: Or I feel you know, ready to tackle this part

699
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 2: of my life. And I think that's where being more

700
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: than just one thing is important. And Rene Rapp is

701
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 2: a dear friend of mine and one of her first

702
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: songs was Everything to Everyone.

703
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 3: It's like, I can't be everything to everyone.

704
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 2: And sometimes I do think I try to be everything

705
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: to everyone, and I feel miserably because it's not possible.

706
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think I don't know. I don't know,

707
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: but I feel like kind of happy right now.

708
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: How do you feel? Are you happy?

709
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: I am so happy? But it's interesting. It's also been

710
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: really hard, and I think what I've had to deal

711
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: with this year, in particular finally deciding to stop trying

712
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: to push the rock up the mountain, you know, to

713
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: stop being on that sissyphy and journey of if I

714
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: just work harder and if I just push farther and

715
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: if I just do more of this and if I

716
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: just then I'll be happy. It's like maybe instead of

717
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: life feeling like a torture marathon, it could feel like water.

718
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: Maybe everything could be in flow, Maybe everything can move easily.

719
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: And I don't think I even knew until I knew

720
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: that I had just been bred for the hard part,

721
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I did it my whole life

722
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: as a kid in my house. I did it my

723
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: whole career, thinking like, you're so fortunate to have this job,

724
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: and yes, you know, you guys all work for this

725
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: man who's a sexual predator and he's the worst, but

726
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: he's not here all the time, so just be happy

727
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: when he's not here with your friends. And then when

728
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: he's here, keep smiling because you don't want anybody to know,

729
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: because if the if you girls talk about this and

730
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: the show gets canceled, this whole crew of two hundred

731
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: people who support their families will lose their jobs and

732
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: it'll be your fault because you're ungrateful, like you know it.

733
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what that taught me. How I

734
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: learned to disassociate, how I learned to always perform gratefully

735
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: and ignore literal trauma. And it took me being diagnosed

736
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: with PTSD to understand the journey I had been on

737
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: in a couple of really toxic work environments and then

738
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: how to learn in my own mental health care journey

739
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: to proudly claim my art and all of the great

740
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: sets I've worked on and the scenes I've loved to do,

741
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: and the wonderful people and to say this was unhealthy

742
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: and I need to learn to separate the two. Like,

743
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: that's really been a journey. And so here I am

744
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: at the end of this year where I finally learned

745
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: that twenty years of working that way taught me to

746
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: do it in my actual life as well. And that's

747
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: so like, what a bummer. That's been really hard.

748
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: Yes, are you disassociating less lately?

749
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Absolutely? And so it's been really interesting when I

750
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: finally decided to stop pushing the rock up the hill

751
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: last summer and be really honest about how I felt

752
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: in my life and how hard I tried to put

753
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: the whole list together and I made everything perfect on paper,

754
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: and and I just decided to let it go. I

755
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: find myself now, almost a year out from that, having

756
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: never been happier, but also having never been more anxious.

757
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: It's like to be so holy. Yourself is so vulnerable,

758
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: it's so sensitive. There are days when I wake up

759
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: and I feel like I've just been beaten head to

760
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: toe by a baseball bat. The Internet is hard and scary.

761
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: I've also left it for months at a time, and

762
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm starting to learn things that I didn't even know.

763
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Like the closest people to me are like, you know,

764
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: you're really this serious political person on the internet, but

765
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: in life you're like goofy and emotional and you probably

766
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: cry once a day, either because you're overwhelmed or like

767
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: you see something beautiful and it like moves you to tears.

768
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: You're funny, You're never silly online, and I'm like, I'm not.

769
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: I don't even realize, but I feel you, like in

770
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: my bones, like my chest feels like it's swelling right now,

771
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: because there is so much more to us than we

772
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: could ever possibly be on one of these like on

773
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: a frickin two dimensional phone screen, and we deserve to

774
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: be that.

775
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I disassociate the most when I'm trying to maintain

776
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: an idea of.

777
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: Myself for us, when you're trying to perform yes.

778
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: And I also know when when I take too much on,

779
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: like work wise, and it gets really overwhelming, that I

780
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 2: go into that same sort of disassociative headspace and be like, Okay,

781
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: what would Dylan say right now?

782
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 3: What would Dylan do?

783
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: I have?

784
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: And I think it's it's been so nice to now

785
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: see the getting out from the other side of that

786
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: and be like, Okay, that wasn't healthy. And just because

787
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 2: you were providing opportunities for others or you were doing

788
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: really well financially or whatever, it was like that you

789
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 2: were convincing yourself that that disassociate dissociation was worth it

790
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: actually isn't. And I'm getting better at saying no. But

791
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: funny enough, I was with Kenny last night and he

792
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: told me about your you had a year of Yes,

793
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: and they of like, hell, yes or something like that.

794
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, what was that?

795
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, twenty twelve. My best friend Jenny and

796
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: I just we both were like, why are we letting

797
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: fear and fear of failure and fear of getting it

798
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: wrong rule our lives? Like everybody feels when they're learning

799
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: new skills. Everybody tries things that don't work sometimes and

800
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 1: that's okay, Like why do we feel like unless we're

801
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: going to be perfect at something, we can't even attempt it.

802
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: That makes your life so small? So you know, we

803
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: were moommates for ten years and we decided to make

804
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: twenty twelve our year of Yes, and we just said

805
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: yes to everything. Every trip, every adventure, every opportunity, every lecture,

806
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: every conference, every random night to go see a concert,

807
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: and like one of them resulted in going to this

808
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: place that doesn't exist in La anymore. I'm so sad

809
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: I miss it. But it was this cool, little like

810
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: viby sort of jazzy club. And we went with friends

811
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: one night that we didn't know very well, and we

812
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: wound up at a secret prints concert and Prince sang

813
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: for three hours to like one hundred people in a room,

814
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: and we were like, this is why the Year of

815
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Yes is iconic. You know, we would have never had

816
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: this experience, and I don't know, it's like it was.

817
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: It was things like that that were once in a

818
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: lifetime opportunities and then moments where we just decided to

819
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: say yes to something that felt scary and it was incredible.

820
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: And the cool thing about challenging myself to say yes

821
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: to so many things is I also learned eventually how

822
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: to say no. I learned what felt so good to me,

823
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: and I learned what felt like pressure. And yet here

824
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: I am, and you know, twenty twenty four, realizing that

825
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: last year I had to learn, I had to learn

826
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: how much I was still saying yes to things that

827
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: I knew somewhere deep down my bones were not good

828
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: for me, but I was really, really trying to get

829
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: it right. And again, I know that that's been seismic

830
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: and difficult, and it has taken such courage to make

831
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: changes in my life. And I know that I have

832
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: it so much easier than so many other people. And

833
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 1: so when we talk about this like learning to say yes,

834
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 1: learning to be your whole self, no matter how scary

835
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: it is, again I come back, my friend. I think

836
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: about you, and I'm just like, part of why you

837
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: are so inspiring, and I think part of why folks

838
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: who come from a more conservative bent, who are afraid

839
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: of your freedom, I think part of why you're scary

840
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: to them is because courage is contagious. When you see

841
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: someone be courageous, you go, well, if they could do it,

842
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: maybe I could too. And that is priceless and profound.

843
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: And I know it's not easy for you, but I like,

844
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: I really, I'm just so proud of you because you're

845
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: doing it.

846
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: Thank you.

847
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 2: I don't feel that's I think that's the weirdest part

848
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: of when people say that to me, I'm like, who

849
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 2: are you talking about?

850
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: Well, of course, because you feel like your whole self,

851
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: not just your brave self. You're also scared, and you're

852
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: also nervous, and you're also learning, but you are brave,

853
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: You really.

854
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 2: Are I And it's so just like a contradictory to

855
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: like who I was as a young person, scaredy as cat.

856
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 3: But I think I'm in.

857
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: My year of maybe, and I love that I'm trying

858
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: to be really.

859
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 3: Thoughtful with a yes and with it.

860
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: And what I'm trying to be better about is saying

861
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 2: yes to things that I normally wouldn't and trying those

862
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 2: new things out. Because you know, what I realized too

863
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: is I'm twenty seven right now, and I was, you know,

864
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: finding myself kind of over working in a crazy capacity

865
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 2: over the last few years, and I thought, oh my god,

866
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 2: what if I like make all my dreams come true?

867
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: But then I didn't have any fun in the you know,

868
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 2: or like convincing yourself that they're like you were having

869
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: fun even though you were disassociating. And now like getting

870
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: to fill my life out with the other parts and

871
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: like I even have this vision board behind me and

872
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: like a bunch of the things have already happened, but

873
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: one of them is sloth. I want to go camping,

874
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 2: and I specifically want to go with Jed and I

875
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: want to go with you, yes, and and like that's

876
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: something that I think two years ago I probably would

877
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: have never even put up there, because that felt selfish

878
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: to me to want to go do something.

879
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: That, oh, we're going, we're going done. I'm literally going

880
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: to get my calendar out when we're done with this interview.

881
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: We're going to make a plan, we're going to go.

882
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: I also think that now the streamline of all these

883
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 2: things were the things that I can make happen for

884
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: myself versus waiting for other people to make them happen

885
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 2: for me. And I think it's I'm really letting go

886
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 2: of expectations of others. Funny enough, like Lady Gaga is

887
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: on the board and I got to meet her a

888
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: two weeks ago at her house for dinner and and

889
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 2: she released sort of like a statement in to support me.

890
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 2: And that was one of those moments where I've never

891
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: put an expectation on anyone in my life to like

892
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: show up in that capacity for me, and yet she did.

893
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,919
Speaker 2: And that's when like, because there were no expectations there,

894
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 2: Like I was just blown out of the water in

895
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: disbelief because I was like wow, and I think that

896
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: just goes to show like, like the manifestation is real,

897
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: and also that like letting people support you in the

898
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 2: ways that they can best and to not by your

899
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: standards but to theirs is epic. And I think I

900
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 2: just feel so lucky right now. I feel so wildly

901
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: grateful to like have made it through some of these

902
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: really dark moments and been stronger because of it.

903
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now for our sponsors, you know what, I

904
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 1: think some of those really big moments, like a manifestation

905
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: of meeting one of your heroes, I think sometimes that's

906
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: also a little bit of the magic of the universe,

907
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: because when you're on the receiving end of, you know,

908
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: an audience of ten million on TikTok, that means you're

909
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: on the receiving end of a bigger audience of haters too,

910
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: And so I think sometimes the universe will say to you,

911
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna have this outsized moment to remind you that

912
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: you're on the right path, whether it's with her or

913
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: like you're sit down with the president in twenty twenty two.

914
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: Like for me, I think we've been through these generations

915
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: of such enormous social change and evolution. There's no way that,

916
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: especially with some of our older politicians, they weren't on

917
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: like the wrong side of history back in the day,

918
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: that they're on the better side now. And like for

919
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: me to see you sit down with the president and

920
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: have him just one hundred percent behind you and advocating

921
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: for trans kids, I'm just like, this is what we want,

922
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: Like we want the people that are our parents' age

923
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: to get more progressive with age now weren't closed off,

924
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: and like, I don't know, it just it made my

925
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: heart so happy. And maybe because I've seen that in

926
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 1: my own parents, Like my parents are just like ride

927
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: or die on the train of social progress in ways

928
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: that like they weren't even when I was in high school.

929
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: And it's so cool to see, Like not to say

930
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: that Joe Biden is my dad or yours, but he

931
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: does give off like great dad energy. What was that

932
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 1: like to sit down with him?

933
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: Was it like was it.

934
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: Easy because he felt familial or was it insane because

935
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: he's the president? Or was it both?

936
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 3: I mean I still was like, what the hell am

937
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 3: I doing here? Because that was again very early in

938
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 3: my journey.

939
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 2: Really I did not consider it myself a political person

940
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 2: or an active you know, I still don't call myself

941
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: an activist because I think that's something to really be earned.

942
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: And also there are specific facets of transness that I

943
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 2: feel comfortable speaking on, and then others that I know

944
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: now that I'm not well versed enough in in that

945
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 2: conversation too, I think as much as I'm so grateful

946
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 2: forgetting to do it, I do think there was about

947
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand trans people that probably weren't more equipped

948
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 2: than I was for that. But I'm so grateful because

949
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: what that did was that was kind of the beginning

950
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 2: of when I saw an influx of hate and transphobia

951
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: and going to sit down, whether you know you're for

952
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 2: Biden or not, to to get that confirmation that like

953
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: the most powerful person in the world is says that

954
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: they support you. I think that was like enough for

955
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 2: me to be like, okay, I can I'm doing this,

956
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: Like this is still who I am. I have less

957
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 2: shame about it now because of the situation. And like again,

958
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: and it disassociated. It was disassociative in a different kind,

959
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 2: like in a good way because I was like basically

960
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: like like playing with the dog in the Oval office,

961
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: and then like Joe Biden gives me a cookie and

962
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 2: you know, wrapped with like a gold seal on it.

963
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: I was just like, what is going on right now?

964
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: But I do think that like it's it's so My

965
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 2: favorite thing is like sort of like intergenerational conversation specifically

966
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: usually with my two old women, because there's so much

967
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 2: that I can learn from them in their womanhood, and

968
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: and when we have those moments, I'm like, oh, hell yeah,

969
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 2: it's it's. I always was the kid at the pool

970
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: party that like was like with the mom in the

971
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: kitchen while all the other kids were like playing by

972
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 2: the pool and and getting to like watch or the

973
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 2: women you know in my life that I met get

974
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 2: to ask me questions, like even you know, I was

975
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: out of dinner last week for a very small like

976
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: screening of a film, and there was a much older

977
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 2: actress there who an icon and if she sat next

978
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 2: to me and started asking some of my questions, some

979
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: questions about my transition, and some of them were not

980
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: the most like appropriate dinner conversations we having, especially with

981
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: someone new to my life or you know, just to

982
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 2: us meeting. But I could tell that like the fascination

983
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 2: that she had was so pure hearted and also like

984
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: I felt safe enough to like go there with her,

985
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: so I did, and I know that we both left

986
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 2: feeling really like connected and inspired and knowing that I.

987
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 3: Had her support. And so I think that, like there's.

988
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 2: So much beauty that can come from not shying away

989
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: from getting connected like that.

990
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again that you felt comfortable, you were able

991
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: to take a moment with someone that you know, if

992
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: she'd ask those questions off someone else in your position,

993
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: they might have been uncomfortable. And sometimes I think to

994
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,479
Speaker 1: meet people's curiosity, giving them the benefit of the doubt

995
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: and helping them know better so that they do better,

996
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: Like that's also so important, And that's something I worry

997
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: that the Internet is kind of canceling out of us,

998
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: And I hope that we can begin, as you said,

999
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: to really practice nuance so that we can create more

1000
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: nuance in our world. You know that feels like a

1001
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 1: big deal.

1002
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 3: I have a one question for you.

1003
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 2: Do you have any advice for me to like setting

1004
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: boundaries and now that you've like navigated this for so long,

1005
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 2: like specific to.

1006
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 3: Like what you think would be healthy for me to do.

1007
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, I feel like we could do a

1008
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: whole nother podcast about this, and I want to really

1009
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 1: deep dive on it with you, but I will say

1010
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: I think I think one of the most important things

1011
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: that I have learned that helps me to set a

1012
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: boundary is that our emotional reactions are quick and our

1013
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: emotional learning is long, and so if you are responding

1014
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: or doing out of a reactive place, it won't wind

1015
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: up being a good thing. Learning to practice patients and

1016
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: go slow and wait has been one of the greatest

1017
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: sort of exercises and also transformative yeah, practices of my life.

1018
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: And so we will talk so much more about that

1019
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: than our next bonfire. But I'm excited for you. I mean,

1020
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: I think even asking the question is so great. I

1021
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: think boundaries are medicine, and yeah, we have plenty to

1022
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: dig into there. I can't believe we've been talking for

1023
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: an hour. I hate it. I want to ask you

1024
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: seven hundred more questions, but we'll do a part two

1025
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: at some point. But I need to know, well two

1026
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 1: things because I really want to come back around to music. Since,

1027
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: as you said, Days of Girlhood came out two weeks ago,

1028
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: you are having like pure unadulterated joy as a singer.

1029
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: You have the voice of an Angel. Hello, It's why

1030
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: you come from Broadway and I can't wait for you

1031
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: to get back there. Are you releasing more music? Where

1032
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: can people find it? And then I'll ask you my

1033
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: actual last question.

1034
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 2: Okay, days of girlhoads streaming on like all the spots

1035
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 2: like Spotify and Apple Music. I I don't actually know

1036
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 2: what the plan is for music right now because it

1037
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 2: was such a it was a very bittersweet experience putting

1038
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 2: this out there, and I think I really now want

1039
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 2: to focus on people hearing my like my voice and

1040
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,439
Speaker 2: my actual singing voice, and not just like the fun

1041
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 2: of it. But I want it to be because I'm

1042
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 2: not trying to be like a musician by any means.

1043
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 3: I want it to always be something I.

1044
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 2: Come back to because I have to and because it

1045
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 2: feels like the exact thing that I'm supposed to do

1046
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 2: and I'm not having that.

1047
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: Moment right the second.

1048
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, and now, like like I I just posted

1049
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 2: as singing with Chris Colfer like an old Broadway standard duet,

1050
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: and that felt really yummy, And so I think it's

1051
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 2: it's finding the different the different versions of music for me.

1052
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: I love that and that too, don't forget it takes

1053
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: courage to say, Ooh, I tried this and I don't

1054
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: think I liked it, or maybe that's not for me.

1055
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm gonna go this way. Yeah, that's that too,

1056
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: is brave, so don't you forget it. It kind of

1057
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: feels like in that spirit, you know, being willing to

1058
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: show up and experiment and keep try and keep learning.

1059
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: All of this period, not only of your life and music,

1060
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: but of the last couple of years and your transition

1061
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: and your your pursuit of your most authentic identity all

1062
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: feels like a work in progress. But if you think

1063
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: about from today looking forward, like into the spring and summer,

1064
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: into where you want to go, what you next want

1065
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: off that vision board, what feels like your work in

1066
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: progress as you look out at the future.

1067
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: Ooh, I think I need to fall back in love

1068
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 2: with being me.

1069
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 3: And because I was.

1070
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 2: When I came out as a woman, I fell in

1071
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: love with my identity and with who I was and

1072
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 2: the confidence that I was feeling in the new joys,

1073
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 2: and then I had that kind of tarnished for a second.

1074
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 3: And now I'm like refining that again.

1075
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: And I think as helpful as the support is from followers,

1076
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: or strangers that I meet in the street or my family.

1077
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 3: Like it has to come within myself.

1078
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 2: So I also think, like it's funny because I'm starting

1079
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 2: to date and what I've gathered is like I have

1080
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 2: to like I'm the hottest when I think that I'm

1081
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 2: hot or that like I think that I'm worthy, and

1082
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 2: that it can't come from an external.

1083
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 3: Source or like validation.

1084
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 2: So it's all encompassing of like loving the art that

1085
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 2: I'm putting out, leaving that song the way that I

1086
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 2: just apologized basically for like, oh I don't like music,

1087
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 2: I don't, you know, Like why am I doing this?

1088
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 2: I need to like love the fact that I did

1089
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 2: that for myself and claim it. And I think that's

1090
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: also is like standing by my decisions and my content

1091
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 2: in my opinions and my identity and not being apologetic

1092
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 2: for it. So I think that's where I am working.

1093
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 2: I'm a work in progress, and I think for anyone listening,

1094
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 2: I just hope that they can see that the transition

1095
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: that I'm going through is just a different version of

1096
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: the transition that they're going through, and it might not

1097
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 2: have anything to do with gender, but how beautiful it

1098
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: would be if we were all just fascinated instead of

1099
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 2: hateful or darkly and deeply confused by people, and just

1100
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: found a little bit of wonder.

1101
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that because you know what

1102
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: I really think it is. I think generationally it's been

1103
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: so dangerous to be a human in the world that

1104
01:03:55,680 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: we have been cultured to want the spotlight on us.

1105
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, well, if you're mad at all

1106
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: those people over there, you won't be mad at me,

1107
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 1: if you know, in like evolutionary times, it's like, well,

1108
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: if that village on that side of the mountain is

1109
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: getting attacked, will be safe over here? We shouldn't be

1110
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: attacking anyone. We we have generations of economic understanding, we

1111
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: have generations of mental health understanding, we have we know better,

1112
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: we can actually create systems that work for everyone and

1113
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: don't make anyone feel like they're threatened. And if we

1114
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,959
Speaker 1: actually keep everybody safe, we can just all be safe

1115
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: and we don't need to judge each other.

1116
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 3: So I can't wait that.

1117
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: You know that, I think is like the planet's work

1118
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: in progress. But don't but please know that you being

1119
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: courageous enough to be yourself reminds other people they can too,

1120
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: and to your point, we're all in transition all the time,

1121
01:04:54,880 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: whatever whatever manifestation that takes on, we really are. Yeah,

1122
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: so let's do it together.

1123
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 3: What's your work in progress right now?

1124
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I mean really patience. I've had to

1125
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: exercise a lot of it over the last year. It's funny.

1126
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 1: I was the most celebrated in twenty twenty two when

1127
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: I painted a really good picture for everyone, but internally

1128
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: I was the most depressed I'd ever been. I felt

1129
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: so sad. Teach people loved me, and then I I

1130
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: got free and I chose my joy and I've never

1131
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: been more brutalized or lied about. And yet I would

1132
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: do it all over again to feel as free and

1133
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: in my own body as I feel now, And that

1134
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: that's a big deal, because I don't think I could

1135
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: have done it ten years ago.

1136
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: And the people that celebrate that joy that are here

1137
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: and you know, my people, however, many of us there

1138
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 2: are that were here, and we're here for it, and

1139
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 2: we see that within you and in a way like

1140
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 2: I didn't get to know you during that time, and

1141
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 2: I only now get to see how cool that we

1142
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: are meeting when we're both like figuring that out about ourselves,

1143
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 2: but also we are like accepting those parts of ourselves,

1144
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 2: which I think is really really beautiful.

1145
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like early in your transition and when I

1146
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: was like, I'm doing so much work to be happy.

1147
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to get there someday. You know, we met

1148
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: and instantly liked each other. But isn't it cool that

1149
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: our like deep friendship was launched and is evolving out

1150
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: of like this most honest place where we're holding out

1151
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 1: the good, all the bad, all the hard, all the exciting.

1152
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: Like I don't think that's an accident.

1153
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 3: No, I just I love you.

1154
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: I love you. I'm so proud of you.

1155
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1156
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 2: It makes like I don't know why, but people like

1157
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 2: you or sometimes I'll call jewels and like I want

1158
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 2: to start crying, and not because I'm sad, but I'm

1159
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 2: just like I feel like I don't know. I just

1160
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 2: I love you and I want to thank you for

1161
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 2: having me on today.

1162
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 3: And I love you. People you know enjoyed this and

1163
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 3: I did, so there's something.

1164
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: And I get excited too. I'm like, oh my god,

1165
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: imagine what what version of this interview will do a

1166
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: year from now. It's going to be great.

1167
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 3: I can't wait,