1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: forty nine and today we are back with our last 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: bonus Turkey hunting podcast, and our guest is outdoor writer 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: in turkey hunting extraordinaire Andrew Johnson, who's gonna be speaking 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: with us and going deep into the world of turkey vocalizations. 9 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: you by on X. Today we're joined by Andrew Johnson. 11 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: He's an outdoor writer and contributor to such publications as 12 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: Turkey and Turkey Hunting Magazine and Mediator. And Andrew is 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: going to help us examine six of the most common 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: turkey vocalizations that every hunter should know, and we're gonna 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: explore what they mean to a turkey, how to replicate 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: them as a hunter, and when and how to do 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: this in a hunting situation. So, in short, we're getting 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: some great turkey calling advice and know how from a 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: very well informed and experienced turkey hunter. I'm gonna say though, 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: real quick before we move on. If you're enjoying all 21 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: this bonus turkey hunting content and you've got some more 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: turkey tags to fill, make sure you head over to 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: the meat Eater dot com and check out all of 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,919 Speaker 1: our turkey hunting articles. We've put up dozens and dozens 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: of new turkey stories and it's really good stuff, So 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: head on over there to do some reading as soon 27 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: as you can. So now with that out of the way, 28 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get into our turkey chat with 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 1: Andrew Johnson. All right with me now on the line 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: is Andrew Johnson. Welcome the show. Andrew, Hey, thanks for 31 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: having me. I appreciate you taking some time to do 32 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: this and being flexible with me. Off off air, we're 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: just talking about I've had a newborn, just nuclear cataclysmic 34 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: fit going on here in our household. So it's an 35 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: interesting day, but I'm glad we can talk turkeys and 36 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: you know what we're doing here, Andrew, is a series 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: of bonus, short and sweet turkey hunting episodes here and 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: Wired Hunt, bringing in various experts to talk about specific 39 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: turkey topics here during the month of April. So for 40 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: folks that aren't familiar with who you are what you do. 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Can you give us like the really short, sweet intro 42 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: to who you are and what you what your turkey 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: hunting experience or or background is. Sure. Um, well, I'm 44 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: a South Dakota kid and I grew up hunting pheasants primarily, 45 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: and then and that kind of evolved into deer hunting 46 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: and turkey hunting, and all about ten or fifteen years ago, 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: I got a job with a national turkey hunting magazine 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: called Turkey and Turkey Hunting. And at the time I 49 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: literally hadn't even a turkey is more or less killed one. 50 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: So I basically stumbled through a couple of years of 51 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: editing stories on turkeys and turkey hunting and also learning 52 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: from some of the best in the business. And then 53 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm sure you've heard it before and 54 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: also people who have experienced it once once one rattles 55 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: his head off on his way and you're hooked. So 56 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: since that time, Um, yeah, I try to get out 57 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: every spring and we're gonna make a run at it 58 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: here in the Black Hills if things pan out this spring. No, 59 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: it's good to talk about turkeys and the outdoors and 60 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: thinking of brighter days ahead. Yeah, this is definitely a 61 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: time when we need a nice distraction like turkey hunting 62 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: more than ever. Yeah. So so that said, then you 63 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: you've also done some writing for Meat Eater, and a 64 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: recent article of yours really caught my attention about turkey 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: vocalizations and the six most important turkey vocalizations to know about. 66 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: So I thought maybe the way we could frame ourk 67 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: quick conversation here is is just around what those six are, um, 68 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: and just kind of walk through what what they mean, 69 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: why they're important, how we as hunters should should use 70 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: those calls. Possibly so so to kick it off, I 71 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: guess you wrote in that article that the problem in 72 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: many cases is that oftentimes when turkey hunters go out 73 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: in the spring, they have these very one sided conversations. 74 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: I think you rewrote specifically the quote here is the problem, however, 75 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: is that springtime conversations often become one sided as hunter's 76 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: hammer away without realizing the meaning of the calls they're using. 77 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: So right out the gate, Andrew, why is that a problem? 78 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: Why is an issue the hunters are calling away without 79 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: knowing what the heck they're calls mean? Sure, Um, well, 80 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: just like anything else, there there's context involved, and context 81 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: is a relative term in the Turkey Woods. I mean, 82 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: calls you use right away in the morning are different 83 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: than in the afternoon. Um they vary by region. Um 84 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: you know, different things like that where And I'm guilty. 85 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: I've been guilty of this a number of times too. 86 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: Is I'll pick up a new call and I'll sit 87 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: in my basement and think, man, I sound really good, 88 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: and as soon as I step into the Turkey Woods, 89 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: I want to use it. I just want to hammer away. 90 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: And that's not really how you want to go about it. 91 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean less is more. And that's why that's why 92 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: I said it's a one sided conversation. Is we're more 93 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: interested in in our calls and just hearing ourselves yelp 94 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: and really sound good, rather than trying to ease into 95 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: a conversation with those birds and then start the back 96 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: and forth. How do you think about that kind like 97 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: do you when you're out there in the woods and 98 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: you are hearing how birds are responding to you, do 99 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: you literally know you literally hear a hen yelp or 100 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: hen do something or a bird gobble and you say, okay, 101 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: that means X. Now I'm going to respond in this 102 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: kind of way or is it a little more subtle 103 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: in them? Sure, everything has to be taken into consideration. 104 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: And now if you can and if you can see 105 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: the birds and there's a boss hen in there, and 106 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: and she cuts you off, you know, if you start 107 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: yelping and she cuts you off and starts walking the 108 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: other way, well you've got to change your strategy and 109 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: figure out how you can get in with her first 110 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: before you start trying to go after her gobbler. Whereas 111 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: if if you are walking through and you're just kind 112 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: of running and gunning and you hit a box call 113 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: in a series of yelps and a gobbler blows your 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: doors off, and and then every everything you throw at him, 115 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: he's cutting me off. Well, then you know you're you're 116 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: in business. So it's it's a give and take. And 117 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: I've I've screwed up more hunts than I've had success 118 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: that let me. Let me throw that out there, and 119 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: you have to learn from those. And instead of just 120 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: hanging your head and you know, walking back to the 121 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: truck trying to figure out what went wrong, you have 122 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: to look at what went right and see, well I 123 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: got to this point, how can I carry it a 124 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: step further? And a lot of that has to do 125 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: with that conversation because they're telling you stuff not only 126 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: with the calls they use, but with their body posture, 127 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: how they're moving around, different things like that. Yeah, that's 128 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: a great point. Let's let's drill down into then that 129 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: aspect of what they're telling you, specifically with the vocalizations. 130 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: The six main vocalizations you talked about were the yelp, 131 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: the tree yelp, klucks and putts, cutting, purring, and gobbling. 132 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: Let's start at the top of the yelp. What and 133 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: I guess maybe do you have stuff with you to 134 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: actually give us a sound of what you would say 135 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: each of these sounds like? But I do. And UM. 136 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: Also for for those in the audiance for a new 137 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: I wrote this. UM. I used to work with Spencer. 138 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: Spencer used to write for me with an outdoor publication. 139 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: I ran here in the dakotas Spencer new art for 140 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: need Eater, and he reached out and said, hey, I 141 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: need a basic one on one piece on Turkey calls 142 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: and vocalizations. UM. One thing I didn't include in there, 143 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: but it's a it's an awful, useful resource is the 144 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: n WTF has Wild Turkey Sounds on its website and 145 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: it runs through all of them. And the way I 146 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: learned how to do some of these calls, and I 147 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: know the way some other people have learned how to 148 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: do these halls, is by playing the audio files online 149 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: and then trying to replicate them on a box call, 150 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: slate call, mouth call, what have you? Um so, so 151 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: for starters, um, I just wanted to throw that out 152 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: there that because I'm not a good caller, I'm not. 153 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: I know what to listen for and know those audible 154 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: cues on when I can move and when I should 155 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: approach or when I should back off. But as far 156 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: as the calling goes, I mean, I'm average average at best. 157 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: So is it fair though to say that that that's 158 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: that's almost reassuring to hear and it's good enough and 159 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: it's like anything else, um, a little bit of luck 160 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: comes into play. But also, um so, understanding when you 161 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: should use a call is almost as important as how 162 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: it should sound, if that makes sense. Because you don't 163 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: like our conversation, you didn't phone me up and say goodbye, Andrew, 164 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: you know you're you're the first words out of your mouth, where, hey, 165 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: how are you. It's kind of the same with turkey calls, 166 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: because if you show up and just start cutting and 167 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: yelping as loud as you can right away. I mean 168 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 1: I can only imagine turkeys kind of looking at each 169 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: other and saying, like, what is what is this dude 170 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,119 Speaker 1: or gal doing? I mean this that isn't how they communicate. 171 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: It's out of context. So that's why we and I 172 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: picked these six basic calls because they're pretty much universal, 173 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: and they're the most I would say, the most used 174 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: or most heard. Um, you know, biologists have found twenty 175 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: nine different calls. Um. Some say they're thirties, some say 176 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: there's twenty five. When you get the idea, there's literally 177 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: dozens of calls turkeys use and in the woods every 178 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: given spring, you're only gonna hear four or five, maybe six. 179 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's about the extent of it. But yeah, 180 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: if you if you wanna, so, if if people want 181 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: to a tangible resource, I would encourage them going to 182 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,599 Speaker 1: n w A t F dot org. But yeah, I 183 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: have some calls here that can show you how poor 184 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: of a caller I am as well as um, you know, 185 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: a proof that being average at this is okay. Yeah, 186 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: Like I said, I like the fact that it's okay 187 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: just to be average and you can still get it 188 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: done when you have this more holistic understanding of knowing 189 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: the context, knowing what it means, knowing when to apply it. Uh, 190 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: that's that it's really great to know. So, so can 191 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: you give us a really quick example. Okay, what's a yelp? 192 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: And then talk me through the context of that, what 193 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: it means, and what we should be thinking about when 194 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: using as a hunter. Sure, yelp, it's basically kind of 195 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: the foundation for the rest of the calls. It's the 196 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: most generic turkey call there is, you know, and that 197 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: I could have combined yelps and tree helps into one 198 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: because essentially they're the same thing. But a yelp is 199 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: a yelp. It's a two note call um. A lot 200 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: of people, especially with mouth calls, have trouble making the 201 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: first note of the call, which is typically a higher pitch, 202 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: breaking down into lower pitch. So I have a slate 203 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: call in hand um and it's an acrylic or glass 204 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: call um. But I chose it because when I dragged 205 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: the striker slowly across the surface, he'll be I won't 206 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: make the yelp at first. I want to make the 207 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: two notes first, so it'll be a drawn out call 208 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: where you hear the high pitch to low pitch. So 209 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: let's see if I can get it to where you 210 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: can hear it will be hide to low. So it's 211 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: almost like a teenager whose voice is cracking, just in 212 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: the opposite direction of that kind of puts it into context. 213 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: So so did that come through? Okay? Right on? So 214 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: now that you hear the hide to low and with 215 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: kind of that break, um, now you add the rhythm 216 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: and tone and context to it. Because again, and know 217 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: what you're trying to sound like a love sick hand 218 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: like you're this is going against their nature. In nature 219 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: of the gobbler, gobbles and hens go to him, so 220 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: you're trying to coax him along. And you know, I 221 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: hate to say it, but it's like you're saying, hey, 222 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: big boy, I'm over here, you know what I mean. 223 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: So a little tone, a little rhythm, and a little 224 00:12:48,640 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: cadence that's about all it is. And so this is 225 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: basically that wooing call, letting know like, hey we're over here. Um. Now, 226 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: when you're hearing that, now, so the opposite, you like 227 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: to make that call, try to bring him to you. 228 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: But what if you hear turkeys out there yelping um, 229 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: knowing okay, there's some hens out there, they're yelping. What 230 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: does that tell you? And how does that change your 231 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: plans when you hear another real live bird doing that? Sure, 232 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: I try to match the hens. And I think that's 233 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: a common sentiment a lot around a lot of turkey hunters. 234 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: Is I'm using the same language, so to speak, she's using. 235 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: So if she's cutting me off, you know, as I yelp, 236 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut and I'm gonna cut her right right 237 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: off the next time she makes a sound trying you're 238 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: trying to spar with her and raise her curiosity and 239 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: raise her territorial awareness because turkeys are territorial, man, I 240 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: mean they they just are. And hens are that way too. 241 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: So if you can if you're calling to a group 242 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: of birds where boblers flocked up, you're not really calling 243 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: to the gobbler. You're calling at the hens. You're trying 244 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: to work your way in with them. Now, the reason 245 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: I chose this acrylic call also is it is it 246 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: has a little bit of rasp. But if I want 247 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: to play kind of a more submissive tone, I have 248 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: another call here from UM. It was a birthday present 249 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: from a buddy of mine from CNS custom calls. But 250 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: it's a a slate call. Now there isn't as much rasp, 251 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: which I mean, what I've learned out here in the 252 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: prairie birds that I hunt a lot is I'm always 253 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: hunting birds that are flocked up, and so I have 254 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,479 Speaker 1: to deal with the hen a lot. If I'm more submissive, 255 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: I found it gives me a fighting chance. If I 256 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: try to be as bossy as her in the wide 257 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: open where there's where they know, I mean, they're looking 258 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: around and they know exactly what's going on. You're not 259 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: hidden by ravines and hardwood trees. You're you're exposed. But 260 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: if I go soft without rasp and kind of more 261 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: subtle and and try to almost be, you know, the 262 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: little sister to that him, I've had more luck. So 263 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: here's a a different slate call and you'll be able 264 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: to hear that. It's not as raspy. So it's a 265 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: little bit higher, not nearly as I mean, the sound 266 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: will carry because of the calls make, but without hardly 267 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: putting any pressure with the striker. I don't want I 268 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: don't want to get raspy or boss at all. I 269 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: want to be soft and subtle. I was going to 270 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: ask you mentioned a little bit earlier the fact that 271 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: there's there's a certain level of importance with how you 272 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: start a conversation. You know, the context of how you 273 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: begin conversations and them, etcetera, etcetera. Um, in the Turkey world, 274 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: where does it yelp fit into a conversation? Is it 275 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: okay to start with the yelp or should you ease 276 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: into a little bit more? No, yelp yelp is a 277 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: great way to start the conversation. Um, you just don't 278 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: want to. You know, if you have birds roosted, and 279 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: you know you're set up within a roosting location, you 280 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: you don't want to start yelping and just hammering away 281 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: for the birds are even awake. This is a call 282 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: that you would work into with tree yelps, which is 283 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: the second um call that everyone should know. And it's 284 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: just a very very soft, subtle call used when birds 285 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: are still on the limb, and it's really nasally because 286 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: they make it almost with their beaks closed. As they're 287 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: waking up, you know, trying to sort out the pecking 288 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: order for day, and gobblers are goblin trying to click 289 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: their hair. Um hands are answering. If you ease into 290 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: the conversation with a trio, it's much more realistic than 291 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: cutting and yelping and just coming in guns blazing, if 292 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Can you give us an example of that? 293 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: Uh of a tree yol trio um? Typically with a 294 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: mouth call works a lot better. I don't have a 295 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: mouth call with me. You can make it with any call, 296 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: friction call or a mouth call um. But it's it's 297 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: soft and subtle, and it's very leading or almost how 298 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: would I say, it's almost pleading. So it's just very soft. 299 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: If you were in the woods and then you know 300 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: the birds are still on the limb, I mean they're 301 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: awful hard to hear the way it is at the 302 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: winds blowing at all and your your upland you're not 303 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: going to hear it. What's your perspective on calling then 304 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: on the roost? So is it just tree yelps or 305 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: are you gonna are you gonna get into regular yelp 306 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: and then shut up and then not talk until they 307 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: come down. There's a lot of debate around how much 308 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: to call it's when I first, you know, when I 309 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: first started turkey hunting. I think, like a lot of people, 310 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: it's so tempting that every time they gobble back to 311 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: you when they're on the roost, and they do many times, 312 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: you just want to keep them talking and the names 313 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: go and go and go. And I found that it 314 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: was not such a good idea eventually. What's your take 315 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: on that, I'd agree completely. And that's what you just 316 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: described as a perfect example of how that conversation becomes 317 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: one sided and you become tone deaf to what's really 318 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: going on. Um Less when the birds are on the limb, 319 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: less is more, and I don't I don't make any 320 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: kind of sounds until I hear a bird gobble or 321 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: hear a hand yelp, whether it's from a roost next 322 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: door or the roost I'm hunting, or you know, way 323 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: off in the distance. I want that that audible queue 324 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: that it's okay to start making turkey talk. And then 325 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: if I'm using decoys, um I will throw out a 326 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: tree yelp, just basically saying ham over here. Just a 327 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: soft indicator, you know, and if they hear it, great, 328 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: If not not a big deal, it is what it is. 329 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: Sometimes they're going to hear that call. Sometimes they're not, 330 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: based on the terrain and wind and everything else. But 331 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,959 Speaker 1: it's okay to throw one or two route, but by 332 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: rule of thumb, I wait for them to make the 333 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: first move. Um. There, if your decoys are in a 334 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: spot where those rooster birds can see you in the 335 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: morning or even mid morning or mid afternoon, Um, it's 336 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: okay to throw out a yelp just to kind of 337 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: draw their attention, But then you have to kind of 338 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: let them make the next move. So once that happens, 339 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: then you throw a little yelp. They gobble back. Um, 340 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: how long will you carry on from that point? Or 341 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: is it? Is it then done? Now? You know? Okay 342 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: they nail here. Now wait until they come down. Um, 343 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: if we're talking still on the roost. If they're still 344 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: on the roost, I um if if I put a 345 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: tree out out and they and I if Now it's different. 346 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: If if I have a gobbler roosted alone and I 347 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: know he's alone, it's rare. But if I know he's alone, 348 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: then I'm I'm gonna try and get him with anything 349 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: I can before another hand comes into player, before he 350 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: joins up another group of birds. But if he's roosted 351 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: or multiple gobblers are roosted with some hens and everything, 352 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm playing by their rules. They have an 353 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: established packing order, and I just kind of want to 354 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: fit in. So if he cuts my tree, yelp off. 355 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: And if I cluck and he gobbles, if he's gobbling 356 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: at a cluck before I you know, before he's off 357 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: the limb, I mean, we're we're in business. But if 358 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 1: it's all quiet on the western front, I just let 359 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: it sit. If he's given me an answer and I 360 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: know he knows where I'm at, I'm gonna let him 361 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: make the next move. But if if he's if he 362 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: is incessant, if he's I mean, if he's tuned up 363 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: to the point where you could sneeze and he's gonna gobble, 364 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I keep going after him because I don't 365 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: want I want him to stay focused on me, because 366 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: other other hens are going to hear this. They're going 367 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: to hear him and move in, and I want to 368 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to be a one on one phone call. 369 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: From that point you mentioned clucks, which is your next vocalization. 370 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: Clucks and putts? Can you talk talk us through what 371 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: those mean? What they sound like? Yeah, clucks and putts, man, 372 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean they're hard to know the difference, um, which 373 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: is also why I kind of said you have to 374 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: take body language into consideration. If you can hear a 375 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:27,479 Speaker 1: bird clucking's I think I wrote something like, it's like 376 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: a Marco Polo. You ever play that game when you're 377 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: growing up, you know, you say, it's just their way 378 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: of keeping tabs on one another, And that's how it 379 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: was explained to me. And that's I mean, hands are 380 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: making noise all the time. They're pourring and clucking all 381 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: the time, whether you can hear it or not. It's 382 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: just constant. So it's a it's an every day, I 383 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: mean every minute basically part of their conversation while they're 384 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: walking around. So it's very natural to add into the 385 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: conversation from a hunting perspective, just kind of reminding them 386 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: him over here. And it's just a short stacato note 387 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: that is basically like a locator calm. So the bad 388 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: thing is is an alarm put if dangers around or 389 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: if you get busted. Sounds very similar, but a bird 390 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: running away making the sound as opposed to a bird 391 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: just picking its way through an alf alpha field. The 392 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: context again is important because that will tell you what 393 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: kind of call it is. So another way to look 394 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: at it, cluck is how we say the word dude. 395 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: Like you know, you can inflect the word dude about 396 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: forty different ways. You know, dude, dude, dude. You know 397 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: there's all these and we all know what they mean. 398 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: Turkeys know the meaning. So when when you're throwing out clucks, 399 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: you want to make it sound like, hey, I'm over here, 400 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: I know where you're at. And then if they respond 401 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: to that, then clucking is a way to lead into 402 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: cutting and more yelping to carry on the conversation. So 403 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: that's something you can give us a little example of 404 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: two yeah on a on a um, it's really easy 405 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: to do. It's much easier than a yelp from my experience, 406 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: on a mouth call, but on a slate call or 407 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: even on a box call, you can replicate a cut um. 408 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: First of all, for anyone listening who hasn't ever run 409 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: a friction call, whether it's a box call or or 410 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: a pottent peg call or a slate call, the striker 411 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: or the friction surfaces should never leave contact from one another, 412 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: so you're not moving the striker, picking it up and 413 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: replacing it back on the surface. It stays in contact 414 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: the whole entire time. Same thing with the paddle. On 415 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: a box call, it stays in contact with the box 416 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: the entire time, whether you're going back and forth or whatever. 417 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: But on a on a pot call or a slate call, 418 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: a cluck is is really easy to make. It's just short, 419 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: staicago note, and you can lead into it with a 420 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: yelp or whatever. It's a cluck. That's about all. It is. 421 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: Short and sweet. Short and sweet louder is kind of 422 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: a dude, you know, and a softer is just a hey, 423 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm over here, dude. So that's kind of how I 424 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: picture it in my mind. Yeah, I like that. I 425 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: was going to transition to if if you've got the yelp, 426 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: which is kind of sweet talking a little bit, and 427 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: the clucks and puts are kind of like the dude 428 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: right here, then the next thing I feel like, if 429 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: we're transitioning through our conversation is cutting, which, at least 430 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: from the way I've understood it has always been a 431 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: much more aggressive situation when you get to that. Um, 432 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: Am I writing that. And if still, can you give 433 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: me a little more context with how you think about it. Yeah, 434 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: cutting isn't a normal part part of the conversation. I 435 00:24:57,920 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: think that might be a way to phrase it. Cutting 436 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: is um definitely next level as far as the conversation goes. Um, 437 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: if you have a gobbler wound up, or if you're 438 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: sparring with a hen and she's working, you can tell 439 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: she's coming towards you, whether you can see her or 440 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: just hear her, I'm cutting is a way to take 441 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: it to the next level. Um. And I finally pulled 442 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: up the article so I could read, so I could 443 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: read exactly what I wrote. But it's Yeah, it's an 444 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: intense series a louder ratic clucks. There's no rhythm, there's 445 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: no rhyme or reason. Um, but it's you know, you 446 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: can cluck. I'm on a box call now, so you 447 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: can cluck like cluck lead into cuts like that. Um. 448 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: And if yeah, if they respond to that, you are 449 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: you're in business. I mean, this is this is a 450 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: closing the deal type of hall. Or if gobblers are 451 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: hung up and they're they're fired. Up, but they're just 452 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: not committing past that, you know, the four yard mark. 453 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: If you're talking about ethical shotgun range or whatever, you're 454 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: comfortable or bow ranges. M if if you want to 455 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: lead them a step further, I mean, it does not 456 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: hurt to try cutting. And if you know, if if 457 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: they're posture changes and that kind of scares them off, 458 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: then and you read that body language, Okay, now I 459 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: back off. I go back to what was working and 460 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: got him to this point. But on a on a 461 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: slate call, you can just cut and lead into a 462 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: series of yelps and they go. So that's that, that's 463 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: breaking the hang up. It's an added degree of realism 464 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: that can um you know, it can either fire bird 465 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: up to make him across that threshold that he won't 466 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: break from, or it can help engage that boss hand 467 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: even more. Yeah. So that's like the aggressive approach to 468 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: dealing with a hung up bird. I feel like the 469 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: next vocalization is a little bit like the passive approach, 470 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: where sometimes I thought, Okay, I gotta get I really 471 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: gotta get after himse I'll start cutting. The flip side 472 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: is sometimes I'm thinking, you know what, Okay, I'm just 473 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna lay back now and I'm just gonna 474 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: shut up completely, or I'll just do a little bit 475 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: of light purring just so you know something's still here? 476 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: Is that? Is that? How you ever look at it? 477 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: With this next vocalization, which is purring as I looded. Yeah, 478 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: And purring is a close contact call. If a bird's 479 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: yards away on a ridge, he's not going to hear 480 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: you purring, right, So this is close quarters combat, just 481 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: as another you're trying to put one more nail in 482 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: that bird's coffin. Purring a lot of guys purrs and 483 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: cluck clucks together. I mean it's a lethal lethal combo. Again, 484 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: because birds do it all day long. I think it 485 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: um one way I might try to do this is, Yeah, 486 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: on the n w t F site that I mentioned earlier, 487 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: they actually have a ten second clip. It's a cluck 488 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: of per and I'm going to crank my volume up 489 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: on my computer to see if you can hear this. 490 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. And so it's a I mean, turkeys 491 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: eat all day long, and when they're just strolling through 492 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: the woods, it's a it's a territorial call, and it's 493 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: also a call of contentment and so you you're going 494 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: to pull that out when again there's something close. But 495 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: they need to just have that reassurance. Yep, everything's all right. 496 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: I'm in my especially if I'm using decoys and if 497 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: I have a mouth call in um, purring and clucking 498 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: on a mouth call. Man, it probably took me three 499 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: or four years before I had something that sounded somewhat 500 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: like a turkey. Um. But it's if you can, you 501 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: try to use it with a mouth call, because turkeys 502 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: are that close. You don't want to be running a 503 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: striker across the slate or having to adjust your hands 504 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: to get back on the gun. But it's yeah, it's 505 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: it's just reassuring them that, yeah, I'm a turkey. I'm 506 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: over here. Um, if you want to keep coming this 507 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: way and check me out, you're more welcome. Yeah. So 508 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: the next vocalization. Then we've talked through a lot of 509 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: calls that the hens are making, but the last one 510 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: is gobbling. So of course we we know what a 511 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: turkey gobble sounds like. That's the sound we're all turkey 512 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: hunting for. That's the thing that gets us, gets us 513 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: amped up and excited. Um, but talk to me about 514 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: how you interpret gobbles when we when we hear turkey gobble, 515 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: Are there different types of gobbles that make you think differently? 516 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: Or is the timing or cadence or how often they're 517 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: doing it? Are there anythings like that that you're listening 518 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: for that then change the strategy. Yeah, sometimes gobbles, I 519 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: mean it's the only true mating call. All these other 520 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: calls turkeys used throughout the entire year for different purposes. 521 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: There isn't a hen call out there that's strictly for mating. 522 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: Gobbling is strictly for mating. And I think when you're 523 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: in the woods, you can you can tell if if 524 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: it's a gobble, if for gobble, If a tom is 525 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: just gobbling on the roost, just a gobble, I mean 526 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: it will ring out, you'll hear it. But when he's 527 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: all fluffed up and fired up at fifty yards or 528 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: even a hundred yards, you can tell there's just there's 529 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: more guts to it, if that makes sense. It just 530 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: it's throatier and deeper, and when they mean business and 531 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: when they're fired up, it's at a different, a different level, 532 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: you know. Do do you ever make gobbles? Is that 533 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: something that's in new repertoire. I've I've tried, and years 534 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: ago I had one of those gob gobbles shaker things, 535 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: you know and shake it. Um, but I I personally 536 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: don't use them. Um. I will use other sounds in 537 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: addition to calling, like all scratch leaves and all take 538 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: my hat off and beat it against a tree to 539 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: make like wing wing beat sounds like I'm flying off 540 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: the roost in the morning. Um. Different audible cues like that. 541 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: You can. It just enhances your your setup or your calls. 542 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: But gobbling, no, I leave that to the gobblers. I've tried. 543 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: I've tried to do it on an out call and 544 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: every other way, and I I don't know. I don't 545 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: sound anything like a turkey. Yeah. So so this is 546 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: um obviously imperative stuff to understand when it comes to 547 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: getting out there and talking with He's understanding some of 548 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: the stuff you cover. It's great. What would be if 549 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: we're going to close it down? Because these are much 550 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: shorter and sweeter than my usual episodes. I feel weird 551 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: shutting down so soon because it's so great, But um, 552 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: as we're trying to stick to what would be that 553 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: I mean, having edited Turkey and turkey hunting. Having talked 554 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: to so many great turkey hunter has been out there 555 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: so much, yourself, probably been with some people that are 556 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: still learning maybe as well. What's that thing that so 557 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: many people are screwing up? What's that mistake that is 558 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: haunting so many of us when it comes to calling 559 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: or understanding calling? Um, if we could correct that one thing, 560 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: what would that be? Sure? Um, without a doubt, it's 561 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: calling too much people. Um, the best turkey hunters that 562 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 1: I've hunted with, and I've I've had, I've been blessed 563 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: with some of the greats you know, Eddie Salter, Alex Outledge, 564 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: Ted Brown, Chris Parrish, Steve Stolts, Brian Lovett. These guys. 565 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: The biggest thing that as in their back pocket is 566 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: that they have that most other people don't, his patience. 567 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: And they will wait out a bird until the cows 568 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: come home. They won't say, they won't say a word 569 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: because if that, if that turkey is down and on 570 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: the ground and moving around and he isn't spooked and 571 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: he's not running the other way, there's no reason to 572 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: try and you can try to coax him. I mean, 573 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: sometimes we only have an afternoon to hunt so you're 574 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: kind of forced to make the action happen. And I 575 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: love taking the fight to a bird, and sometimes I'll 576 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: just crawl after him because I'm out there to kill him, right, 577 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: I'm not out there to watch him, even though I 578 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: love doing it, but I'm I'm out there to kill him, 579 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: and sometimes you have to force the issue. But the 580 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: really good Turkey hunters, even though the world champion callers 581 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: and they have world titles on the all, um, calling 582 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: isn't the number one thing in their arsenal. I would 583 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: say it's patience and understanding how and when to move 584 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: and where the set up they understand. Those put you 585 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: in a place to call, and then you can use 586 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: calling if if needed. If that makes sense, it does 587 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: make sense. And I'm going to ask you an impossible question, 588 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: but I'm hoping for some kind of guideline. Um. I 589 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: think people listening will say, Okay, that makes sense, I 590 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't overcall. But how do I know when I'm overcalling? 591 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: Is there anything any guideline or something to keep in 592 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: mind for folks to help them know when they're at 593 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: that line when they're okay, I should probably stop, or 594 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: this is maybe this is too much like anything to 595 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: help people there. The only thing I can think of 596 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: is if you if you can see turkeys, you know, 597 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: if you're if you're calling to a god or if 598 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: you're calling to a hand up gobbler, where essentially you're 599 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: talking to the hens. You have to read their body language. 600 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: I mean, so if you call too much and those 601 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: birds start working away from you, or or if you 602 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: call once and and that hen takes off the other way, 603 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: that'd be a good indicator to me, Hey, I'm not 604 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: going to call and then the next day, like if 605 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: if I live to hunt the next day, where I 606 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: don't booger them out of there too bad, I understand 607 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: the next time I go in, I don't need to 608 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: be calling. I need to set up. And that's where 609 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: scouting and understanding how terrain and habitat and food sources 610 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: come into play, and hopefully you understand their daily travel 611 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: pattern and use that to your advantage. Calling calling more 612 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: than anything, is just a way to seal the deal. 613 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: So if you can see turkey, if you can see turkeys, 614 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: I mean, reading their body language can help you understand 615 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: how much you call. If you can't see the birds, 616 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: man if if you have a gobbler responding and he's 617 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: cutting you off at every step of the way. Um, 618 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: or even if if he gobbles once and he double 619 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: gobbles and cuts off a yelp. Sometimes I don't want 620 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: even call anymore. He knows where you're at, you know, 621 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,439 Speaker 1: so you don't ever want to overdo it. I don't 622 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 1: think there is such a thing as undercalling a bird, 623 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. I think people screw up hunts 624 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: because they call too much. But I've never heard it 625 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: where someone says I should have called more. You know 626 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: what I mean? So tread lightly less is more, and 627 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: just you gotta take everything into consideration. I have no 628 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: other birds around you are talking. It wouldn't be a 629 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: good idea to be the loudest voice out there. Yeah. Context, 630 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: I feel like a moral of this story is taken 631 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: to account the context of the situation. What's going on, 632 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: what the other birds are doing? That's really helpful. Yeah, well, Andrew, 633 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: this is this has been great. I appreciate you walking 634 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: us through this and given every one a primer on 635 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: Turkey vocalizations. Yeah, and there's plenty of resources out there 636 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: people should use. I appreciate um the call. Hopefully someone 637 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: can take something we talked about and put it to 638 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: good use. Yeah, this is more tread lightly and shoot 639 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: him in the head. That's all I got. That's all 640 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: you need to know, all right, Andrew, Well, thank you 641 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: and good luck with your turkey hunt in the spring. 642 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,399 Speaker 1: All right, Mark, thanks for the call. All right, and 643 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: that is going to do it first today. I hope 644 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this one. I hope your turkey hunts are 645 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: going well so far this year. Man, it feels good 646 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: to be out there here in those gobbles. I've been 647 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: taking my two year old son out without a weapon. 648 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: We're just going out there to try to call him 649 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: in and it's just been a blast. And I hope 650 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: you're enjoying some of those same great experiences out in 651 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: the wild. So until next time, thank you again for listening, 652 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,959 Speaker 1: and stay wired to hunt.