Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back. It's another episode of Thinking out Loud.
Speaker 1: I'm Elvis Durant. We've got a very very special guest today,
Speaker 1: our really dear friend, Rob Shooter. It's kind of funny
Speaker 1: how you think you know someone, but there are so
Speaker 1: many things about them you don't know. Let's find out
Speaker 1: more about Rob today. You may know him as naughty
Speaker 1: but Nice Rob. He's a world renowned gossip columnist. I
Speaker 1: guess he likes that title. We'll find out. But how
Speaker 1: does one get into a world of gossip? How did
Speaker 1: he do it? Where did he start? And is there
Speaker 1: such a thing as good gossip? We'll find out in
Speaker 1: this podcast with Rob Shooter. Let's get to know it.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about doing this podcast is
Speaker 1: I'm actually sitting down with people I know or I
Speaker 1: thought I knew. Rob Shooter is here. We've known each
Speaker 1: other for how many years?
Speaker 2: Gosh, it must be a decade, Elvis, like at least
Speaker 2: at least like ten, fifteen, fifteen. Yeahs, It's amazing. Though
Speaker 2: you do know people for a long time, but.
Speaker 1: Do you really know them? Well? That's the thing that's
Speaker 1: what I love about this podcast. I can sit down
Speaker 1: with people that I know and ask questions about things
Speaker 1: we've never talked about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that friendships and relationships have so many
Speaker 2: different colors to them. And what we would talk about
Speaker 2: on a night in a bar, if we bump into
Speaker 2: each other at a fabulous party, isn't always what you
Speaker 2: want to talk about in the day or earlier on
Speaker 2: in the evening. And so we can explore different aspects
Speaker 2: of stuff that just don't come up in regular sort
Speaker 2: of life.
Speaker 1: Then let's do it.
Speaker 2: Jump in.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Rob Shooter, legendary gossip columnist, does Z one
Speaker 1: of many.
Speaker 2: People don't like the word gossip. So I think in
Speaker 2: our business the word gossip is sort of like being
Speaker 2: maybe below a reality star, like it's something that people
Speaker 2: really cringe about. I love that word. I love gossip.
Speaker 2: I've always liked gossip. I've always been nosy. When I
Speaker 2: was a little boy at school, I knew everyone's gossip
Speaker 2: in the playground. It saved me from being beat up.
Speaker 2: I like gossip, I like being curious. I love being nosy,
Speaker 2: and I always have been well.
Speaker 1: Some would say having gossip, having stories about someone is
Speaker 1: having power as well. So I know that little Johnny
Speaker 1: loves to go behind the bushes with a little coral.
Speaker 1: I know this as my gossip. If I ever told
Speaker 1: anyone you know what I mean, he knows I know,
Speaker 1: so he won't beat me up, right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and people too. People like gossip. When I go
Speaker 2: on the morning shows, they're very sensitive about gossip. It's
Speaker 2: sort of like a taboo, and so they call it
Speaker 2: bus It's the same thing. They call it hot topics
Speaker 2: on certain shows. It's the same thing. I love gossip,
Speaker 2: and I like people gossiping about me too, And it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be mean. That's the mistake that people
Speaker 2: make when they think of gossip. They think of people
Speaker 2: saying really mean things about one another. I say nice things.
Speaker 2: I do say some naughty things too, but I say
Speaker 2: nice things too, and that's a gossip too. I want
Speaker 2: to know who you're dating, what's going on in your life,
Speaker 2: how much money you are. I love all that stuff.
Speaker 2: I love looking at people's fringes. Last time I was
Speaker 2: at your flat, your house, your apartments, in your fridge.
Speaker 2: I love people's fridges. Fascinating.
Speaker 1: Was there anything in there?
Speaker 2: It's very neat, very neat.
Speaker 1: See it now? All right? So this is rob Shooter.
Speaker 1: This is the podcast where we find out more about
Speaker 1: our friend Rob. Now I want to go back to Gossip,
Speaker 1: but let's just cover a few of the foundational items.
Speaker 1: Gossip columnist legendary. Also, you're an executive editor of Okay
Speaker 1: magazine and you actually drove up circulation numbers in a crazy,
Speaker 1: unprecedented way at the time. I want to find out how.
Speaker 2: You did that.
Speaker 1: Also, publicist, you've been the publicist for several very famous
Speaker 1: people that we all know and love. I want to
Speaker 1: find out how you got into that and what good
Speaker 1: it did for them and for you. Also, you wrote
Speaker 1: a great book, Busy Busy, a very busy guy.
Speaker 2: It's all fun and they're all stepping stones that have
Speaker 2: led to the next chapter in my life. To use
Speaker 2: a book metaphor, they've all led to the next thing.
Speaker 2: So if you don't like the job you're doing at
Speaker 2: the moment, I figure out a way to get out
Speaker 2: of it and figure out a way to get as
Speaker 2: much out of it. Slightly different. They're not just leaving
Speaker 2: the job, but how can you get as much out
Speaker 2: of it as you possibly can. I fell into publicity.
Speaker 2: I was a receptionist when I came to America. I
Speaker 2: didn't have a green card. Initially, so I had to
Speaker 2: do like these odd jobs. And finally when I got
Speaker 2: a green card, I became a receptionist. I answered the
Speaker 2: telephones at a big PR company, and it was the
Speaker 2: most fabulous job I've ever had because I knew everything
Speaker 2: because every phone call was before cell phones had to
Speaker 2: come through my little switchboard.
Speaker 1: Oh so you were of the pivot point.
Speaker 2: I knew. I was like the center of this company,
Speaker 2: probably the least paid person there and the lowest status.
Speaker 2: But I figured out really quickly that I had enormous
Speaker 2: power being on the phones with these celebrities calling in
Speaker 2: or reporters calling in. And I learned my craft. I
Speaker 2: learned how the business works from answering phones and listening. Listen,
Speaker 2: be curious, be nosy. Let's go backward. Let's go back
Speaker 2: to you growing up in the UK. Where are you from? Birmingham, England,
Speaker 2: which I like to say is Chicago, but it's more
Speaker 2: like Detroit.
Speaker 1: It's a little time.
Speaker 2: It's luck right, it's a second city, part of the
Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution, but that was a long time ago. So
Speaker 2: now all the canals, all the big factories are a
Speaker 2: little sort of any little bit, a little bit of
Speaker 2: a Polish and so I grew up in this really
Speaker 2: tough town, very working class. I'm the youngest of five.
Speaker 2: My dad's a policeman, my mom a homemaker, and so
Speaker 2: I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't have it any other way. Now now
Speaker 2: I've seen the nice side of the tracks. I like
Speaker 2: by beginning, it was a really fun place, full of
Speaker 2: lots of love. Not much else. We didn't have a
Speaker 2: lot of money, but we had a lot of love.
Speaker 1: Obviously, I'm going to make a guest here. You were
Speaker 1: a lot different than most people you grew up with,
Speaker 1: including your siblings. How were you different as a kid?
Speaker 1: And looking back, that kid, little young robshooter, what do
Speaker 1: you see in that young rumshooter? That was the spark
Speaker 1: that turns who you are today? Like, how are you different?
Speaker 1: But that's it?
Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm day, I'm openly gay. But that
Speaker 2: wasn't my story. Early on a birth, my arm was damaged,
Speaker 2: and so I was different as a old because I
Speaker 2: spent an enormous amount of time in hospital. I nearly
Speaker 2: lost my arm, and because of the damage to my arm,
Speaker 2: I couldn't walk, So I had a walking stick. When
Speaker 2: I was a child, I couldn't crawl because I didn't
Speaker 2: have two arms, and I couldn't ride a bicycle. So
Speaker 2: I always knew I was different physically, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you so you were forced to be the different.
Speaker 2: Yes, And my arm was often in a sling, it
Speaker 2: was often in a plaster.
Speaker 1: How did other kids treat you?
Speaker 2: They treated me like I was odd, and I sort
Speaker 2: of and I was, But I learned that that word
Speaker 2: was a good word. Now when I see something odd,
Speaker 2: I'm quite excited. Like when I find a play that's odd,
Speaker 2: it means that I liked it. And so from really
Speaker 2: from the early age, I was my mom who taught
Speaker 2: me this, because there was no way I could fit
Speaker 2: in with these other kids. I just couldn't do the
Speaker 2: things that they were doing. And when I dried, I
Speaker 2: was terribly sad. I remember once trying to climb a
Speaker 2: rope with what arm. It can't be done how much
Speaker 2: you wanted to, and I had the will of the desire,
Speaker 2: but I just couldn't do it. I remember once on
Speaker 2: a school trip, we were in a windboats and I
Speaker 2: went round in.
Speaker 1: A circle because I know, but listen to these things
Speaker 1: as a child. These things can be devastating. Not only
Speaker 1: are you worried about what people think about you, but
Speaker 1: sometimes they may say things to your face that's just cruel.
Speaker 1: But we learned that when you are different and you're
Speaker 1: walking marching in a different manner than everyone else, then
Speaker 1: you stand out. I stood out, So you were standing
Speaker 1: out for maybe you would think at the time all
Speaker 1: the wrong reasons, right right, and so did you? You
Speaker 1: obviously have held on to that because you're still very room.
Speaker 2: I'm different. It's awkward, and the thing is, I'm so
Speaker 2: different that I couldn't run away from it. So my
Speaker 2: sister everybody feels different as children, if you have a
Speaker 2: few pimples on your face, or if you're not the
Speaker 2: tallest person, or if you're too tall. I've talked about
Speaker 2: how she felt different growing up. You can try to
Speaker 2: fit in. I couldn't. I just I was I don't
Speaker 2: walk in straight lines because of the way my balance is,
Speaker 2: so I'm always banking into walls. So at like eight
Speaker 2: years old, they're like, who's that drug kid in the school.
Speaker 2: So I knew I was different and there was no
Speaker 2: escape in it. So the choice was you have to
Speaker 2: just celebrate this or you're gonna have a really miserable life.
Speaker 2: And I remember really having that moment when I was like,
Speaker 2: this is who I am. And I had an enormous
Speaker 2: amount of physical therapy, and it was sort of mental
Speaker 2: therapy too, So at a really early age I figured
Speaker 2: out who I was.
Speaker 1: Was there ever, like a defining moment you can recall
Speaker 1: were you actually and you'll never forget it. You actually
Speaker 1: remember saying it to yourself internally, or however, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is actually a great thing.
Speaker 2: It came from a bad moment, but the good often
Speaker 2: in life comes from the bad. I my sister was
Speaker 2: very musical. I love music. A house was full of music.
Speaker 2: We saw musicals on TV. We couldn't afford to get
Speaker 2: to the broad theaters, the western theaters, but we saw
Speaker 2: them on TV. I started to learn to play the clarinet.
Speaker 2: The clarinet with one hand. Well, that was the problem.
Speaker 2: Their teachers didn't figure out that after the first hand,
Speaker 2: did you have to get to the second. And I
Speaker 2: was so damn good at this clarinet that I live
Speaker 2: through the first three fingers, and then when it came
Speaker 2: to the other hand, I couldn't do it. So I
Speaker 2: was a really promising clarinet player who really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I practiced all the time, I enjoyed doing it, and
Speaker 2: I had to give it up because I just couldn't.
Speaker 2: I hit a wall, I couldn't learn the clarinet about
Speaker 2: the drop it. That's what I did. That's what I did.
Speaker 2: So I moved to the trumpet. And that was a
Speaker 2: moment when a light bulb went off and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, there is a different road. There's a road
Speaker 2: for all of us, and there's a way to get
Speaker 2: to that dream on a different path. And I literally,
Speaker 2: as a young boy, I cried and cried about having
Speaker 2: to give up my clarinet, and it was almost like
Speaker 2: a death, like I was so sad about this clarinet.
Speaker 2: And within a few weeks the trumpet appeared in my
Speaker 2: bedroom in my house. And I'm a really good trumpet player.
Speaker 2: I played the trumpet. Now I'm not that rated it anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't practice that much. But there's a path. It
Speaker 2: might not be your first choice, it might not be
Speaker 2: the path you thought it was going to be, but
Speaker 2: there is a path.
Speaker 1: Well, when your clarinet disappeared, keep in mind it was
Speaker 1: just to have a clarinet that disappeared. You had no
Speaker 1: clue about who was it to put that coronet or
Speaker 1: trumpet in your my mom.
Speaker 2: My mom so felt so guilty because it was it
Speaker 2: was a my almost damaged when I was born, and
Speaker 2: so during birth it was a metal fourcep delivery that
Speaker 2: pulled me out. I was a huge baby. I was
Speaker 2: twelve pounds, which was the biggest baby they'd ever had
Speaker 2: in that hospital. And my mom all her life has
Speaker 2: felt that she didn't try hard enough or it was
Speaker 2: her fault about it, and so I think that guilt
Speaker 2: really made her jump into action. So it was my
Speaker 2: mom that found the trumpet, and I remember like her
Speaker 2: looking because you couldn't there was not the internet back then.
Speaker 2: But I remember her like looking through catalogs of instruments
Speaker 2: to see what you could play with one hand. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's going to be a guitar. Oh no, we can't
Speaker 2: do the guitar. That's two hands.
Speaker 1: The piano.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, that's two hands the trumpet. And
Speaker 2: that's how the trumpet appeared.
Speaker 1: Wow. So you said you had five siblings and the
Speaker 1: youngest the five. Okay, so five of you do you
Speaker 1: feel like between us that you had a special connection
Speaker 1: with your.
Speaker 2: Then would say absolutely, and they think I'm a total
Speaker 2: brat about it. And when I go back to Britain
Speaker 2: and we have a family dinner, I always sit next
Speaker 2: to Mim. I push everybody out the way. I want
Speaker 2: to say, next to the barb and yeah, no, definitely
Speaker 2: it's a bond. I think if a child has their
Speaker 2: mothers love, their unconditional love, you can really go places.
Speaker 2: Some of the superstars that I've worked with and when
Speaker 2: I would ask them what made you so special, none
Speaker 2: of them really said talent. It was about being loved
Speaker 2: as a child. And so if you have kids out there,
Speaker 2: really love them, really love them.
Speaker 1: I know I was very loved as a look at us,
Speaker 1: look at us and I played the coroner as well.
Speaker 1: So as a child, at what point did you realize, Okay,
Speaker 1: there is going to be a future of me, Rob Shooter.
Speaker 1: I think I would like to be a blank. I
Speaker 1: would like to have a career because it looks cool
Speaker 1: to me in the middle of something. Do you remember
Speaker 1: what it was you first wanted to do when you
Speaker 1: grew up.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be in politics. I thought going to
Speaker 2: be I liked that Margaret Thatcher felt like she was
Speaker 2: putting on a show. And in Britain we have this
Speaker 2: thing called Prime Minister's question Time and it's televised, and
Speaker 2: she would stand there in the in the middle of
Speaker 2: the houses of Parliament and take questions and she was
Speaker 2: so theatrical and so blazingly dramatic. It felt to me
Speaker 2: like it was a play. And so I liked theater.
Speaker 2: I couldn't act very well. I couldn't sing very well,
Speaker 2: or though I was fabulous as model the Taylor in
Speaker 2: Fiddler on the Room.
Speaker 1: Oh talk about it well as in.
Speaker 2: Edinburgh at the time, and you would have thought we
Speaker 2: would have done Brigadoo. No, it is Scottish production. A
Speaker 2: Fiddler on the Roof Gentiles don't like. So I liked theater,
Speaker 2: but I didn't want to get that road. So I
Speaker 2: ended up getting my masters in political science, and the
Speaker 2: plan was to go to London and sort of be
Speaker 2: an mpiece assistant and work my way up in that world.
Speaker 1: Do you love me?
Speaker 2: Do I? What?
Speaker 1: Do you love me?
Speaker 2: Do I love you? For twenty five years of clea
Speaker 2: your mails and.
Speaker 1: Fund your mouth? Is that I think you do? I remember?
Speaker 1: Do you love me? Do I? What?
Speaker 2: Do, I what what She's just cleaning the house leaving alone.
Speaker 1: A great musical. Okay, So politicians also have this. They
Speaker 1: have to be they have to be dramatic, they have
Speaker 1: to be show busy.
Speaker 2: It's so busy it is.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's something you have clung onto
Speaker 1: to this very day, the need to get your point across.
Speaker 1: You gotta be over the top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like. I like to argue. I like to disagree.
Speaker 2: I hope I'm not disagreeable, but I like debates. I
Speaker 2: like difficult subjects. I think I can find a middle
Speaker 2: ground hopefully with people. And I think, like challenge yourself,
Speaker 2: hang out with people who don't agree with you. It's
Speaker 2: such a much it's much more of a fun night, so.
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable thinking about it. For some people, I happen to
Speaker 1: agree that I want to disagree.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that, and sometimes too, I'm so contrary too.
Speaker 2: But as far as like being over the top and
Speaker 2: show busy, it's who I am, like I don't like
Speaker 2: some of our friends. People we know can be very
Speaker 2: flashy when they're on the microphone or on television, and
Speaker 2: a little bit dull behind the scenes. Kim Kardashian and
Speaker 2: so like, oh no, sorry, she's I had to dinner
Speaker 2: with Kim. It's a little doll. Yeah, it's a little doll.
Speaker 2: But on the show she's terrific. But I'm as this
Speaker 2: ridiculous at dinner. You get it is what it is, Yes,
Speaker 2: you are okay.
Speaker 1: So jumping from I'm thinking about me a politician to
Speaker 1: being fascinated with the world of celebrity. Oh I love them.
Speaker 1: How did that bridge happen?
Speaker 2: Well, I always loved the Royals, and to us they
Speaker 2: were celebrities. So the Royals were a Kardashians. They still
Speaker 2: are still. I loved all the glamour of it, and
Speaker 2: I loved Dynasty, the TV show, and I liked like
Speaker 2: diamonds and crowns and so I loved all that dressing
Speaker 2: up stuff. So in Britain it wasn't quite as as
Speaker 2: glamorous as American celebrities. We loved the American celebrities. So
Speaker 2: I always liked celebrities. I always liked reading the magazines.
Speaker 2: I used to spend my pocket money and buy the
Speaker 2: Smash Hits, which was a weekly magazine about all your
Speaker 2: favorite pop stars. I'd save up my money to go
Speaker 2: and see them in concert. Or their movies. And I
Speaker 2: remember I got to meet Farah Fawcett, Oh wow, who
Speaker 2: had a fragrance. And poor Farah had to come to Birmingham,
Speaker 2: England to sell as fragrance at debonums, which she didn't
Speaker 2: really want to do, but nevertheless it was her.
Speaker 1: She signed a contract took up legally bound.
Speaker 2: Harold's five Paris fight birbing Gum. But she had took
Speaker 2: up to Birmingam and I waited it lie to beat
Speaker 2: Farah Foscett. I couldn't afford the fragrance. But she signed
Speaker 2: a little postcard that they were handing out for AE
Speaker 2: and I framed it so I looked at it and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I want to be part of
Speaker 2: this world. I knew I didn't have her talent, but
Speaker 2: there there was a way for me to be part
Speaker 2: of that world.
Speaker 1: I had that Farah Fawcet poster on my well when
Speaker 1: I was in the school I was a little kid.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's still the biggest selling poster of
Speaker 2: all the red bathing suit.
Speaker 1: Do you remember? Do you know who designed that red
Speaker 1: bathing suit? Who I used to know? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'll get back to you on.
Speaker 2: And she hung up the blanket behind her. Originally it
Speaker 2: was just her standing there and she found it in
Speaker 2: the back of a car or something. This Indian tapestry.
Speaker 1: I do believe Norma Komali design. Was it Norma Kamali?
Speaker 1: We interviewed her, didn't we Norma Kamali? I think we
Speaker 1: did anyway, Moving on blah but okay, So, but at
Speaker 1: what point did you realize you wanted to have a
Speaker 1: career that was a part of celebrity. I mean, how
Speaker 1: did you make that connection.
Speaker 2: I wasn't from the background where I could make choices,
Speaker 2: so I think a lot of people in life wonder
Speaker 2: how did you make that choice. I had to fall
Speaker 2: into whatever job took me, so I needed to make money.
Speaker 2: And so if I'd got a first job working at Starbucks,
Speaker 2: then I might have took a very different road. I
Speaker 2: had a friend who worked at a PR company and
Speaker 2: they were opening up a New York office and they
Speaker 2: were like, do you want to answer the phones? And
Speaker 2: I and I was like, I can answer phones. I
Speaker 2: know how to do that, and then I learned the job.
Speaker 2: There there's very few jobs that we can't learn how
Speaker 2: to do, Like brain surgery is one, and sort of,
Speaker 2: I guess flying a plane and being a pilot, although
Speaker 2: they learned both of those jobs at some point did learn.
Speaker 2: They didn't doctor Ars didn't wake up being doctor, or
Speaker 2: he wasn't born doctor Ars. He learned the craft. And
Speaker 2: so I'm a big believer that if you are willing
Speaker 2: to do the work, you can do anything. Can I
Speaker 2: do the work? And I learned it from all the
Speaker 2: celebrities I work for. When you look at these big stars,
Speaker 2: you think of them as just so naturally gorgeous and talented,
Speaker 2: they're not. They weren't born stars. They became stars.
Speaker 1: So here we are working at a PR agency in
Speaker 1: New York City, and wow, how exciting.
Speaker 2: It was fantastic.
Speaker 1: It was this kid from Birmingham is now living in
Speaker 1: New York City. How much were we making? Remember your salary?
Speaker 2: I think it was maybe twenty five thousand dollars a
Speaker 2: year in New York City, New York City, and I
Speaker 2: represented every tea and spoon and beauty in the beanst
Speaker 2: on Broadway. So it was never lie any big stars.
Speaker 2: Michelle Lee from Lots Landing was my first sort of celebrity.
Speaker 2: And then this beautiful, beautiful young model who was on
Speaker 2: the cover of GQ hired me and she didn't know
Speaker 2: at the time, but it was Tyra Banks, and so
Speaker 2: Tyra was the one that changed my career a little bit.
Speaker 2: And then I went on to work with j Loo,
Speaker 2: Jennifer Lopez and Diddy and bon Jovi and Alicia Keys
Speaker 2: and Jessica Simpson. It was really really fun, fun life.
Speaker 1: These are a heavy duty names.
Speaker 2: There are big stars, and it was wild to see
Speaker 2: to be with them, and I was never jaded about it.
Speaker 2: I loved it. I had like a front row seat
Speaker 2: watching pop culture history be made, and so I was
Speaker 2: always really excited to be there. I felt very privileged
Speaker 2: that this kid from Birmingham was sitting next to Jlo
Speaker 2: in a fabulous car going to the men.
Speaker 1: You were watching pop history being made, but you were
Speaker 1: a part of making it as well. Explain to everyone
Speaker 1: what you would do for the Jennifer lopezz and the
Speaker 1: bon Jovies of the world.
Speaker 2: When you're a publicist for a big star, you were
Speaker 2: inundated with requests, and so your job is to figure
Speaker 2: out what is the best request for them. Wanted to
Speaker 2: cover glamor would want Jaylo on the cover. So Jennifer
Speaker 2: Sell sold magazine she still does, and so she would
Speaker 2: get these incredible offers to do all these covers, and
Speaker 2: all the TV shows want her, and she only has
Speaker 2: so much time, and career wise, you have to make
Speaker 2: right choices. And so if you're going to do a
Speaker 2: serious movie, you might not want to be on the
Speaker 2: cover of Cosmo, which is a very sexual magazine, and
Speaker 2: you might want to be on a different choice. And
Speaker 2: so if you want to change your image or adapt
Speaker 2: to you are a seller product, we would find those
Speaker 2: best ways to do it. And then there's a lot
Speaker 2: of crisis. PR two, when she broke up with with
Speaker 2: Ben for the first time. I wrote the breakup statement
Speaker 2: like I was on the phone with Jennifer, right, And
Speaker 2: it's always the same statement. It's always like, please respect
Speaker 2: our privacy and we're still best friends, none of which
Speaker 2: is true.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I always find it fascinating when a celebrity
Speaker 1: couple breaks up there is an announcement. The rest of
Speaker 1: us we would never make the announcement because no one
Speaker 1: gives a flying fuck, right, But why does there need
Speaker 1: to be an announcement about a breakup with a celebrity couple.
Speaker 2: It really doesn't need to be but the reason it's
Speaker 2: done is because you want to tell your own story.
Speaker 2: It's a good lesson in all our lives, tell your
Speaker 2: own story. So we might not put out an announcement
Speaker 2: when we break up, but we do call our best friend.
Speaker 2: And that's the same thing. Really in the celebrity world,
Speaker 2: the audience, their public is someone an extension of their
Speaker 2: friendship group, a very powerful group who really afford them
Speaker 2: the life they have. And so when when Jessica Simpson
Speaker 2: broke up with Nick, I think before she told Nick,
Speaker 2: she told me like Jessica called me and said this
Speaker 2: is over, and we drafted a statement and then we
Speaker 2: worked with Nick's people to massage it a little bit,
Speaker 2: and then we put out a statement. And then I
Speaker 2: think they enjoy to a certain extent all the noise
Speaker 2: and drama that comes around that, but they also to
Speaker 2: give them a chance to move on with their lives.
Speaker 2: And so I think there's also a great relief too
Speaker 2: when relationships are not good. It doesn't you don't have
Speaker 2: to be famous for this, want you want it to
Speaker 2: be done. There's a relief sometimes when it's over. And
Speaker 2: so I found that.
Speaker 1: There's still a story there, there's a story and you
Speaker 1: know what, that's what That's what keeps everyone relevant. Even
Speaker 1: if you're not a celebrity, you always have to have
Speaker 1: a story going on. Think about it as you listen
Speaker 1: to this podcast with our guest Rob Shooter, think about
Speaker 1: where your story is right now. Friends, they're all talking
Speaker 1: about you because of why you just broke up with someone,
Speaker 1: or you just made this incredible dinner the other night,
Speaker 1: and other friends were pissed off they weren't invited. Whatever.
Speaker 1: We all have stories. So even in a break up announcement,
Speaker 1: that's a story.
Speaker 2: Everyone has a story.
Speaker 1: It keeps your name up there. What about other crisis work,
Speaker 1: I mean, people get into legal problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, he during all his legal stuff. Naomi
Speaker 2: Campbell hired me after she allegedly hit someone. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so I you know, the best thing to do is
Speaker 2: not to make it any worse for yourself. And this
Speaker 2: is a good lesson for all of us. When I
Speaker 2: mess up, and I do a lot, you want to
Speaker 2: apologize quickly, You want to take responsibility, and then you
Speaker 2: want to shut up. Ashley Simpson hired me after lip
Speaker 2: syncing on SNL. That was a major thing, major because
Speaker 2: her career was just exploding, and she went on Saturday
Speaker 2: Night Live. It was her first live performance and it
Speaker 2: did not go well, and so within a week she
Speaker 2: hired me. And my best advice to her was, we
Speaker 2: just put out a statement and then we move on.
Speaker 2: We try and suck the oxygen out of the fire,
Speaker 2: and we don't ever talk about it again. So you
Speaker 2: will never hear Ashley say the S word. We don't
Speaker 2: talk about Saturday Night Live, and we play role play too.
Speaker 2: Is a really good publicist? Your role play? So I'll
Speaker 2: ask you questions like Ashley, you know that's terrible, what
Speaker 2: happened on SNL? How are you doing? And we would
Speaker 2: practice what the answer was going to be, and often too,
Speaker 2: the answer isn't words, It's just the noise. H ah
Speaker 2: See how long you can be on the phone with
Speaker 2: a friend and not speak.
Speaker 1: I can go hours? Hmm what really?
Speaker 2: And people are so uncomfortable with you would practice making noise,
Speaker 2: grunting noises and if you don't want them to move on,
Speaker 2: that's hilarious. I know what I charged the enormous about
Speaker 2: a body that I'm so sorry everybody.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you started in publicity and then you ended
Speaker 1: up at Okay, magazine. Now, okay magazine always known for
Speaker 1: being a great, colorful way to find out what's going
Speaker 1: on with celebrities. But for some reason, when you arrived
Speaker 1: there as the executive editor, things blew up there. What
Speaker 1: did you do with that magazine that caused such a stir.
Speaker 2: When I arrived? It was not doing terribly well. It
Speaker 2: was a enormous magazine in Britain. It still is. It's
Speaker 2: like the People magazine of Britain. And then they launched
Speaker 2: in America, assuming that their heritage, their name would just
Speaker 2: attract an audience. He didn't you have to fight for
Speaker 2: every sale here in America, And so they were very
Speaker 2: celebrity friendly, which translated into dull. And so I changed
Speaker 2: it from being celebrity friendly to naughty but nice. And
Speaker 2: that's how I came up with a phrase that's really
Speaker 2: changed my life. We're not mean girls, We're not gonna
Speaker 2: we're not gonna punch you. We might pinch you, but
Speaker 2: we're cheeky. And I think you can tell a story
Speaker 2: in a cheeky way that you might not like two
Speaker 2: or three of the words in it, but overall you'll
Speaker 2: like it. And I've a beautiful picture of you your
Speaker 2: look glorious. The headline will be fine, but there might
Speaker 2: be a few little things in the story that you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: but that's what makes it interesting for readers. So we
Speaker 2: just change the tone of the magazine. And I would
Speaker 2: argue that's the most important thing to learning life. The
Speaker 2: keys in the lock, you've just got to turn it.
Speaker 2: People throw out the baby with the bath water. Don't
Speaker 2: do that. The magazine's doing okay. It's not a deact, literally,
Speaker 2: it's okay, which is also a very weird name for
Speaker 2: a magazine. I'm my magazine to be called amazing, fantastic.
Speaker 1: You don't want ever.
Speaker 2: I'm okay, okay, And so you put a little bit
Speaker 2: of fairy just on it. You make it a little
Speaker 2: bit more exciting. You tell stories that people want to hear,
Speaker 2: and ultimately, the stories that do the best are stories
Speaker 2: that we care about in our own lives. Breakups, relationships, babies,
Speaker 2: all those major milestones in your personal life are also
Speaker 2: true with magazines. They really sell well. So we just
Speaker 2: changed the emphasis a little bit. We became naughty but nice,
Speaker 2: and initially some of the celebrities were horrified by this,
Speaker 2: but they came around. They saw we were not going
Speaker 2: to take Dick's well, just.
Speaker 1: Go back to that. Then some celebrities were horrified. You
Speaker 1: had already you already knew what it was like being
Speaker 1: a publicist. Now you have publicists calling you at Okay
Speaker 1: magazine saying, what the hell, why are you printing this
Speaker 1: about my client? How did you work there?
Speaker 2: Must have made it easy if Chesier, I could go
Speaker 2: in and I knew from my own clients, like often
Speaker 2: it wasn't the text they cared about. It was the
Speaker 2: picture Jailo. For instance, you got to do a beautiful
Speaker 2: picture of Jailo and she might not read the story,
Speaker 2: but she would see the picture. And so we always
Speaker 2: packaged even the most smelly stories in a beautiful rose
Speaker 2: rose fragrance ribbon, and so everything looked pretty. It smelled pretty,
Speaker 2: but if you read it, it also told the truth
Speaker 2: in a nice way. I can find nice stories there
Speaker 2: when anybody you can just change the way you tell
Speaker 2: a story. When I tell stories of Britney spears, and
Speaker 2: you know, there's some stuff there that isn't that pretty,
Speaker 2: but you can tell it in a sympathetic way. And
Speaker 2: so I always put things through the filter of optimism.
Speaker 2: Lindsay lowhands somebody to where we're always like, we're always
Speaker 2: rooting for her comeback, and so I don't take I
Speaker 2: don't take the low road. And I think this is
Speaker 2: a mistake certainly my friends make and I've made, is
Speaker 2: that people think being mean makes them witty, makes them
Speaker 2: oscar wild. It doesn't. It just makes you mean. If
Speaker 2: you want to be Oscar wild, be interesting and nice.
Speaker 2: That's really hard. It's really easy to be mean and witty.
Speaker 2: It's so easy to get a laugh by being mean.
Speaker 2: What's hard is to get a laugh by being nice.
Speaker 1: But you know what, being a publicist and also actually
Speaker 1: rolling it into a career as an executive editor in
Speaker 1: Okay magazine, that's a sales job.
Speaker 2: Sales.
Speaker 1: And you know what, if someone said to me today, Elvis,
Speaker 1: you've got to go out and sell, so I would
Speaker 1: get nervous and I would crack my pants. But you're
Speaker 1: actually selling. You're selling, you're selling talent, you're selling looks,
Speaker 1: you're selling this being. You're creating a monster, a great, wonderful,
Speaker 1: glorious monster, out of someone who's just a normal human being.
Speaker 2: And it goes back to what politicians do. This is
Speaker 2: what I was meant to do. I'm really good at
Speaker 2: package and stuff. I'm not the greatest reporter, I'm not
Speaker 2: the greatest writer, but I know how to package. And
Speaker 2: that's what magazines do, that's what celebrities do, that's what
Speaker 2: politicians do, that's what the greatest brands do. And that
Speaker 2: led me to do my book. And the takeaway from
Speaker 2: all those celebrities were that the most successful people I'd
Speaker 2: ever met knew who they were, and the really super
Speaker 2: successful ones knew who they were in just four words,
Speaker 2: just four words?
Speaker 1: You was just did you masterfully changed the conversation to
Speaker 1: about your book. I was moving in a lot. You're
Speaker 1: a master at this. Okay, let's talk about your book.
Speaker 1: The four word answer. I love it, and you make
Speaker 1: it seem easy. It's not as easy as you think.
Speaker 1: I believe in correct me if I'm wrong, Rob. Your
Speaker 1: philosophy is you should be able to succinctly describe you
Speaker 1: and your talent in fowards.
Speaker 2: Look in the mirror every morning and who are you?
Speaker 2: In four words? I'm naughty, I'm nice, I'm smart, I'm important?
Speaker 2: Are you kind?
Speaker 1: Are you cheeky? Who are you? In four words?
Speaker 2: And every morning you remind yourself who am I, And
Speaker 2: it's harder to lose.
Speaker 1: Your way in life if you know who you are.
Speaker 1: So talk about the journey through this book. It has
Speaker 1: to be more than just that simple principle. Well, that's
Speaker 1: the principle that holds the book together. And then what
Speaker 1: I did is I took all the celebrities I worked with,
Speaker 1: most of the celebrities I worked with, and I applied
Speaker 1: it to them or I explain how they applied this
Speaker 1: to their lives, and I came up with a word
Speaker 1: for all these celebrities. I knew all four of their words,
Speaker 1: and it's quite surprising, like one of the words for
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lopez was kind. Now, a lot of people would
Speaker 1: not assume Jennifer Lopez is kind, and I'm not making
Speaker 1: the case that she is Florence night Gale. What I'm
Speaker 1: saying is that her definition of kindness is something we
Speaker 1: should all think about. Jennifer's kind to herself. She doesn't
Speaker 1: call herself names, she doesn't beat herself up, She encourages herself.
Speaker 1: And if we could all be kind to ourselves as
Speaker 1: kind to ourselves as we would be to a best friend.
Speaker 1: I say things to myself or I used to say
Speaker 1: things to myself that I'd never say to a friend.
Speaker 1: I'd never be that cruel to a friend, So why
Speaker 1: the hell am I being that cruel to me? So
Speaker 1: there's a whole chapter on kindness from Jessica Simpson. Jessica
Speaker 1: was a really interesting one because Jessica taught me that
Speaker 1: she's the smartest person in the world. She's as dumb
Speaker 1: as a fox, you think, but she's got a billion
Speaker 1: dollars to prove how smart she is. And what I
Speaker 1: learned about smart is that the only thing that makes
Speaker 1: she smart is the willingness to try. Jessica just kept trying.
Speaker 2: She kept getting beat up, knocked down publicly, and she
Speaker 2: got back up. Remember this, Really smart people fail all
Speaker 2: the time, but they keep on going. So there's a
Speaker 2: whole chapter I'm being smart? Did? He taught me how
Speaker 2: to feel like I was important? If you think you
Speaker 2: are important, you will invest in yourself. You'll invest in
Speaker 2: what you eat, if you work out, you'll invest in
Speaker 2: your education. And so it's very, very important to feel important.
Speaker 1: Where do you see this moving for you next? Or
Speaker 1: is it too premature to know? Or are you not
Speaker 1: like a one year, five year, ten year plan. Guy
Speaker 1: I mean you said earlier that all these things went
Speaker 1: into play to move you to the next level, to
Speaker 1: a next layer. Where do you think your next layer
Speaker 1: could lie?
Speaker 2: Or you're right. I didn't have options when I was younger,
Speaker 2: so I just had to fall into whatever job came along.
Speaker 2: And I'm grateful for the jobs I fell into. But
Speaker 2: now I have a lot of options. Now I'm very successful.
Speaker 2: But I thought about this a couple of nights ago.
Speaker 2: If I was playing a game show and I could
Speaker 2: gamble my life today, who I am for the billion dollars,
Speaker 2: the million dollars, what I do? And I'd hit pause.
Speaker 2: I'm really happy with this. I love my piece of
Speaker 2: the pie. I've had opportunities that potentially could have led
Speaker 2: to much greater success. I don't know if I want it.
Speaker 2: I'm not that driven. I like this life. I don't
Speaker 2: want it, and I know really famous people. I don't
Speaker 2: want people taking my photograph when I'm drunk in a bar.
Speaker 2: I don't want people chasing me around. I'm famous enough
Speaker 2: that I can get a dinner reservation and maybe a
Speaker 2: free isert particulate Forresco pie Scotts but delicious, But I
Speaker 2: don't I don't need any more than that. I like
Speaker 2: this life. I would hit pause right.
Speaker 1: Now, but Rob, you know that when you hit pause,
Speaker 1: that's when the opportunity is just don't they flow your way?
Speaker 1: And this is all a pl of.
Speaker 2: Yours, all a plot, but the nicest opportunity that came recently,
Speaker 2: primarily through you too, so thank you was iHeart approached
Speaker 2: me about doing a daily show. And so now every
Speaker 2: morning I have a twenty minute gossip show celebrity show.
Speaker 2: It's called Naughty but Nice and for twenty minutes, we
Speaker 2: do all the stories you want to know about it.
Speaker 2: Because I do this for a living. It's not one
Speaker 2: of those podcasts where we just talk about stories on
Speaker 2: the internet. We break stories. We have news out there,
Speaker 2: we push stories forward. We know what's going on with
Speaker 2: Megan Mark, and we know what's going on with Liza.
Speaker 2: I've been in those rooms where crisis happens and what's
Speaker 2: going on inside her camp, and we talk about that
Speaker 2: and it's become terribly successful and it's a joy to do,
Speaker 2: and so that's my big big push at the moment.
Speaker 1: It's fun. Well, Rob, this has been a wonderful time
Speaker 1: we could spend together. I learned so much about you.
Speaker 1: I thought I knew everything, but I didn't know. But
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. I know you don't want
Speaker 1: to be one of those people who has your picture
Speaker 1: drunk in a bar. But guess what, I've got photos
Speaker 1: of you drunk in a bar. But I'm drunk right
Speaker 1: next to you, So that's right guilty together. So where
Speaker 1: do you find Rob? You find them not a but
Speaker 1: nice here on iHeart you also can pick up his
Speaker 1: book The Four Word Answer. And where else are we finding? You?
Speaker 2: And I have a website called Naughty Gossip Each dare.
Speaker 2: There's about twenty of us. It's a really unusual business.
Speaker 2: So I've basically given all my friends password to our
Speaker 2: reporters or editors, and they just go on and post
Speaker 2: their own stories. So where they see stuff out, they
Speaker 2: post stuff and it's updated all the time, and it's
Speaker 2: a great gig. I feel like a little mini sort
Speaker 2: of company. It's amazing how responsible I've become sort of.
Speaker 1: You've got lots of MutS going on, but don't be
Speaker 1: too responsible, and I know you know that that would
Speaker 1: be a big mistake, a mistake. I love you, Robshooter,
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 2: Thank you for allowing everybody to be deliciously odd, deliciously unusual.
Speaker 2: And remember you're not a misfit when you're around other misfits.
Speaker 2: Find your tribe. They are out there. I used to
Speaker 2: didn't believe that I would ever fit in, and I
Speaker 2: found my people. I did find them.
Speaker 1: They do exist. Wasn't that fascinating? He is such a
Speaker 1: tremendous friend and a talented and very well connected gossip columnist.
Speaker 1: Many many years of Rob Shooter ahead. He's been our
Speaker 1: friends for over ten years, and it's I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to another ten years with them. Some great takeaways on
Speaker 1: how to embrace your unique identity. I love that part.
Speaker 1: If you didn't hear it, go back and listen to it. Also,
Speaker 1: Rob talked about how to stand out in a crowd.
Speaker 1: We're so thankful for you stopping by. Rob, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for chatting with us on this episode. All right,
Speaker 1: more to con We've got a lot of great guests
Speaker 1: lined up. You're not going to want to miss them.
Speaker 1: Make sure you like, rate and review, and subscribe to
Speaker 1: Thinking out Loud wherever you get your podcast, especially right
Speaker 1: here at the iHeartRadio app. Until next time, Peace out,
Speaker 1: everybody Thinking out Loud is hosted by me Elvis Duran.
Speaker 1: The podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli. Executive
Speaker 1: producers are Andrew Paglsi and Katrina Norvel. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: David Katz, Michael kind Heart, and Caitlin Madore. Thinking out
Speaker 1: Loud is part of the Elvis Duran podcast Network on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
Speaker 1: if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,
Speaker 1: I'm Elvis Duran.