WEBVTT - Ep. 910: Steve Eats Narwhal, Wetlands in Distress, and Wag Bags! 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:05.800 Welcome to the news show. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.040 Today, we're gonna make Nate riad a correction on his 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.799 Wolf coverage. Then we're gonna get into a big change 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.920 for game wardens in Pennsylvania. Randall is gonna explore people 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.640 packing out their own poop. Call is here to talk 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.360 about some big trouble with wetlands. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.080 And finally we're. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.840 Gonna hit a possible expansion to a controversial pheasant stocking 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:29.240 program here in Montana. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:36.840 Well that we're on to the news. Okay, you might 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.640 have noticed that Steve Ranella is not sitting in his seat. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.320 Oh yes, where, We don't know where he is. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.879 Actually, Steve is off doing a super cool filming project 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.280 way up north, so he's gonna miss the next couple 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.240 of shows. But he did send us a video to 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.400 check in with us and let let us know what's 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.639 going on up there, up there where he's at. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.320 You got that video, Yeah. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:01.760 Take a look. 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.720 Okay, we have we have a we have a news 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:06.800 flash from none of it. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:08.080 I'm here with dirt. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.240 And our friend Avery is cutting off. Can explain, but 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.800 I'll explain what you're doing. But tell everybody the tell 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.920 everybody the Inuit words. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.280 So I'm cutting up a lung wook or doo glic, 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.840 which is normal. And this was called a couple of 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.280 days ago in funding lit North Faffin. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.039 So now, but look at the skin on that thing. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.560 You would think that was like a made like a 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:42.240 like a marble countertop. The skin on that thing, and 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.600 you're cutting it. Sorry, but I just wanted to comment 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:46.000 on the wildness of that skin. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.080 So now I'm just cutting off the fat the blubber 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:51.800 because if you have too much you might get a 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:56.280 stomach ache. Oh really yeah, and then I'm cubing it 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.120 and I prefer to cut smaller. I find it tastes better. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:10.880 But everyone hunts their own perfect You're almost cutting through, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:12.799 so I'm. 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.520 Just cutting the hard part. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:25.560 People different depths or do you mind telling everybody? Do 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:26.880 you mind telling everbody what that is? 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.760 This one's the skin and the blubber and that's just 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.520 that's a frozen chunk of caribou which you just eat 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:35.880 like that. 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.920 Yeah, and they're cooking up. Can you go check off 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.919 those sealed rips far these plans and that's what I 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:44.519 could check. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:52.560 Wow, they got it all there. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.080 Yeah, we're back. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.000 Oh, this is the only man in the planet who 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.320 I have ever met who had a king eider for 0:02:58.400 --> 0:02:59.000 a pet. 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:03.160 P. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:08.320 Now, yeah, that refers to it's it's dried arctic char, 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:09.840 But that refers to how it's cute. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:11.280 Speaks Spanish the same way. 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.560 Okay, So that doesn't mean that it's cut that way. Smoke. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.639 That's a big art charge that. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:26.680 And here and this is a crazy one right here. 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:28.840 Get look at that. That's broccoli. 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:35.720 See right there they have they walk down our our 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:40.560 our host here, they can walk down and they run 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.640 a net across that little bay, that little inlet right 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.960 there and catch char out of the little gill net. 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:47.480 We were down there last night and they had. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.960 Six char, which is that's the ones you have right 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:52.360 from that from that net there. 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.960 Okay, right dirt, let's go already try it? Already tried it. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:03:58.560 I haven't tried it. 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:02.080 What is it? 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:03.600 Narwal? 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.320 Well there, it's not the most adventurous eater either. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:16.000 Yeah, really not expectant, but really good. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.719 It's good. Can I try just a pure chunk of 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.480 that fat? How bad could it be? 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:23.800 Yeah? 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.600 Anybody ignoring the warnings of locals to not do it, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:32.359 he's gonna put his chance. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.280 I mean, what would be something bad? Would happened to be. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:37.479 Going to get a stomachache. 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:42.799 Well, I can make sure that that is good, sounds 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.720 better straight up? 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.520 Try that man, hagu a little sliver, that's good. 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.080 Dirt is gonna try just the pure fat, which I 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:53.599 think is the is the good way to go. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.720 Narwhale whiskey was good. If it's better than that hot. 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.960 Dog, what do you mind while we're making this news segment, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.520 if we try to blue a little piece of blue, 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.480 this is breaking news. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.760 He's right, that is delicious. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:13.040 Dipping in. 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.640 Well, no, but that's just like like melts, melts in 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:18.960 the mouth. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.160 Chad was saying, it's it's good thought out man. 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:23.680 I feel that. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:26.360 You like it. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:28.000 Look at that. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:30.479 Ball. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:43.719 You like the same cutting method? Do people like? 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:49.280 Is it generally accepted that narwal is better, blooga is better? 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:54.440 Or is it just up to you up to the person. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.040 Growing up, I love the beluga more than narwal, But 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:00.920 now I prefer narmal more than. 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:02.480 Because what happened. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:04.479 I like the taste. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:05.960 Better with normal. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:06.600 OK. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.599 For me, I like more because in my hometown we 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.880 have deeper waters and we don't really get the lugas, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:18.240 so it's like different when you're used to Narwal like 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.800 you become proud of it. It's like, oh, that's from 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.479 our home. And so like last a few summers ago, 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.760 they had a bunch of Belugas come into our bay, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.120 which is rare, and hunters caught them, but they were 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.520 like of the meat, so they sent it all here 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:34.279 because they're. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:35.560 Used to Narwal. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.120 It's just what they're used to. 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.880 We're getting a whole dang meat eater episode. 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.119 Here, big time. 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:53.839 It's big. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:57.440 Yeah, if you're listening to this, you should just hop 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:58.800 on YouTube and watch. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.960 It while you're driving. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.600 Are very good? Then, am I right? 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:06.480 The blue to soft? 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:13.040 Well, this one is softer because it's not an adult, so. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.240 There's variability from age. What are you working on that? 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:18.920 This is. 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:21.240 The hold up? 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:26.000 So I'm just gonna light it to welcome you guys. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.560 And so this was our main. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.960 Source of heat and. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:36.200 Light. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.800 Also to dry the men's clothing. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:46.320 Oil. 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.440 Yeah, traditionally it would be with steel oil or beluga 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:51.120 you would. 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:52.040 Render it down. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:56.960 And then. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:01.520 Yeah, so. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.560 Now we just use whatever oil is available because it's 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:09.520 sea beer and. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.000 It's less stinky. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:19.640 Yeah, fladies and gentlemen, where that's the news flash from 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.920 none of it And and can can you guys teach 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.520 us how to say so long suckers or goodbye? 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:30.560 And there's no real word for goodbye. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:40.720 There's like you see you later, like or you in 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:41.880 the future, in. 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.320 The future, all right, in the future. That's good. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.960 Okay, woman, this is a second and this is a 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:51.760 long goodbye. 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.920 It's a long goodbye. I was trying to understand, like 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.360 I'm trying to understand how to say how to name 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:02.120 the language. 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.920 Yeah, okay, so to say goodbye and one more time 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.320 to say goodbye, and the nook to. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:27.080 Goodbye was the one. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:30.200 Goodbye see you later. All right, there you go. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.920 There's the news from the Great White North, from from 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:34.520 old Steve Vanilla. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:37.360 Cal Brody. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.880 You've been a dad for a couple of months. Now, 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.600 what's that like? You got some advice for a soon 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:43.920 to be dad? Nate over there? 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.800 Oh, yes, you know. Today is a good day to 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.480 do it because my morning started at three forty five 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.400 my day. I'm well into my day from three forty 0:09:53.400 --> 0:10:01.160 five am. And my biggest so everybody's wealth and knowledge, right, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.679 and they're always like, oh yeah, here's all the things. 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.960 But for baby stuff, I don't I can't remember any 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.480 of them. Phil, can you remember any of the baby stuff? 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.680 Oh? No, wiped it from my mind. My thing that 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:19.640 nobody mentioned and I was not prepared for. But this 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.439 is all like, well, of course that's the way it is. Stuff. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:28.920 But like I've run into many people who are like 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.200 baby crazy right now and they're like, well, this is 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.280 how it's going to be, and I'm like, oh, that's funny. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.000 The thing that you need to have, like just be 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:44.040 mentally prepared for, Nate, is the fact that you are 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:49.480 going to be fully consumed with this little parasite and 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:54.160 it is demanding and you have very little grace as 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.600 to when this thing needs what it needs, and you'll 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.960 be consumed with like satiating those needs. There will be 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:11.240 zero recognition of you whatsoever. So it's not like you're 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.480 not being thanked. It's like you you're just a non 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.120 You're just a thing that shows up and does the thing, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.520 and there is no recognition of you at all. 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:26.200 Not at all by the wife, by the baby. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:31.160 There's no recognition of mom from the baby, right and 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.120 and like we're full breastfeeding, so you would think that 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.520 there would be like some recognition and there's just not. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.640 Like the kid does not and say like appreciate you. 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:46.080 Yeah, imagine there's something going on in there that the 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.960 baby is not capable of communicating as well. 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.800 But I see, but there's no like they can't even 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.600 hardly see, right. They're like not really, they're seeing like 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.480 shapes and some colors and things, but they're not seeing it. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.240 They're not going to give you an odd dad, you're 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:01.480 the man. 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.480 And which, right, is like, oh, of course they're not 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.360 going to do that, but like being able to be like, 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:13.000 oh you would kind of be nice, right, And all 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.560 the all the girls that are all like twitter painted 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.120 with having babies, they're like, oh, well we read that 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.040 there's this bond that's established. And I'm like, cool, you 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.920 can't see it, you can't smell it, but if that 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.520 book tells you it's there, you better hang on because 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:31.960 this thing is gonna like. 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.440 It's it's going to chew you up and spit you out. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:41.400 Yep. And then about nine days ago it was like 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.600 almost like a call and response, like the kids like, oh, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.440 I'm tracking you, and here's a smile that is not 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:54.520 related to the kid taking a poop and you're like, oh, 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:55.360 I needed that. 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.240 And and it's like it is there is a human 0:12:59.320 --> 0:12:59.840 in there. 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:08.559 Exactly exactly because I'm fully like, never had anything against kids, right, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:13.200 but like the whole good thing. I'm like, I'm like, 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.760 I'm just not impressed with the human child, right, I'm like, 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.480 Antelope can get up and sprint in you know, twelve hours, 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.400 Like like this thing is so helpless, helpless. Like the 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.520 only thing that's got going for it is it is 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.520 portable and packable. Like that's how we got to where 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.920 we are today, is you can pick up, pick it 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:34.400 up and. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.079 Run then anything like that. 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:39.960 I had not read that yet. 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.000 Yeah, so that is that is the thing. You just 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.160 need to be mentally prepared. Like there's a lot of 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.640 like wonderful things about it, but just be prepared for 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:48.280 the fact that. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.200 For the sheer ingratitude, yeah child. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:55.360 Yep, there is no recognition totally whatsoever. Yep, yep. Okay, 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.959 And you're gonna be doing all this, you know, you'll 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.680 you'll do whatever it takes to like sue that thing, 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.120 and uh, you know, you get way down the no 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.120 sleep trail and it's You're like, I'm putting in serious 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.920 effort here and this thing is only going to respond 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:16.560 negatively the next time it needs something, right, yeah, right, 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.840 and then you get smiles and then eventually, you know, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.120 I think we'll get some laughs, which will be super cool. 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.920 And we were just talking this morning that like, I'm 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:30.280 really looking forward to this thing tasting real food. 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:35.240 Yeah, man, I know it's cliche, but. 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.760 Time flies, like I can't even like I can hardly 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.360 like remember the details of the baby thing, but like 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:47.800 now I got a couple of hunting buddies. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:49.880 Yeah, and pretty soon those. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:54.120 Hunting buddies will be off to college. Sad man goes fast. 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.320 Yeah. Yeah, So I mean I'm looking forward to like 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.240 the teaching. Yeah moment. I think it's fantastic to have 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.640 a puppy at the exact same time, which everybody's like, oh, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.160 you guys are stupid, blah blah blah blah blah. Well, 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.440 the puppy is instant gratification, right. You get that puppy home, 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.480 you feed it one time, and it is like, oh 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.720 my god, I love you. You're the best thing ever. 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.000 You teach the puppy, it's like, oh, this is great. 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.280 And then there's the baby and you're. 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.360 Like staring at you dead glassy eyes. 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:30.359 One day this will pay off. So it's instant gratification 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:32.200 next to long long term payout. 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:32.680 That's it. 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:37.120 That's it's like diversifying. Yes, exactly, exactly, that's great advice, 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:37.720 A hot take. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:38.280 I like it. 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.520 I knew cow would have a unique situation. All Right, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.800 it's time to move on to your news. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:50.560 There we go. 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.240 I like that sound pigeon flying into a bar. 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.880 That's what I was so, I was going for the 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.120 jail door just clanks. 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.880 Your news brought to you by these here banished suppressors. 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:04.920 Know we talked a little bit about these in the 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:10.760 last show. Maybe these things speaking of kids, like, these 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.000 things are awesome if you've got if you've got some 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:19.680 youngsters shooting big game rifles, the noise, the recoil reduction, 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.239 it's it just makes life a lot easier, uh. 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.880 For kids shooting shooting a big game rifles. 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:31.200 So another reason to get one, Nate, you've got some uh, 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:32.640 you've got some explaining to. 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.440 Do on your discoverage. 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.760 I do, uh, Phil, if you don't mind pulling up 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.920 that chart for our listeners. What we're looking at is 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.440 the Dunning Krueger effect or Dunning Krueger curve, And on 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.760 the y axis, you've got confidence from low to high 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.040 and on the right axis or the X axis, you've 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:56.080 got competence from knowing nothing to a guru. And essentially 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:57.920 what this curve is showing is that when you first 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.160 start learning about something, you have extremely high confidence. You 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.760 think you know what you're talking about, but you actually don't. 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.960 And then you reach this peak, which labeled here is 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.360 the peak of Mount Stupid, when you realize you don't 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.840 actually know anything, and you go down that curve to 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.040 the Valley of Despair and you realize, I don't know 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.800 anything about this situation, and I'm going to try to learn. 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:16.080 Now. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:17.440 Are we talking about you here? 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.439 Yes, I am on this curve. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.440 Are you where are you at? 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.760 I would say, based on the listener emails we got 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.119 on my Wolf coverage, I'm slowly cresting the peak of 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.200 Mount Stupid, and I'm realizing I don't know anything about 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:32.639 this topic. 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.200 I think you're in the Valley of Despair. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.000 Yes, I entered the Valley of Despair over the last 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:37.800 couple of days. 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.680 So not even climbing out of it, just. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.399 Starting to climb, and it's a tall mount. And so 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.200 we got a bunch of emails. I think the best 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.160 one was from Dave, and I'll read it out. Hello there, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.320 my name is Dave. My father and I were the 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.600 first to have wolf depredations in Colorado. I enjoy listening 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:56.200 to your podcast, and I believe you do a very 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.199 good job of being as accurate as possible regarding your 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.800 conversation about wolves frequently predating on cattle, where a quote 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.960 credible source claims that the ranchers were baiting. John Smith 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:07.760 not his real name. 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.720 Let's be clear. He's talking about baiting wolves. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.320 And causing intentional conflict, is what I say. 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.760 Say to get a depredation claim on yes, cattle. 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.280 John Smith, not his real name, is who I assume 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.720 your source is, as he's the one who started that rumor, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.760 did a site evaluation on the ranch that he accused 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.600 of baiting prior to those accusations and said they were 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.399 taking all necessary steps to avoid conflict. He later changed 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.040 his opinion when he was unable to reduce conflict, as 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.040 he was hired by the state to do so. I 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.159 can say from personal experiences that with that individual that 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.560 he was only interested in getting us to stop talking 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.280 to the press and not so much about conflict mitigation. 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.159 I will admit he was handed an impossible task, but 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.440 he handled the failure poorly. Furthermore, the Copper Creek pack 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.240 showed a much larger interest in cattle than other packs 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.440 in the state. They continue to do so when they 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.679 were moved to another part of the state. Unless your 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.920 stance is that the ranchers are only baiting this past 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.199 everywhere they go and not other packs, it's fair to 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.480 assume some packs have developed a preference to livestock. Thank 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.439 you for reading this and for your and despite my 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.320 disagreement with the statement, please keep up the good work 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.439 over there. Met Eatter, I think this is a great note. 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:20.280 All I got to explain disagreement with this statement. What's 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:21.000 he disagreeing. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.280 He's disagreeing with the fact that I said that that 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.280 certain wolf packs do not seem to develop a taste 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.640 for cattle. All I know is that the Copper Creek pack, 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.000 which was brought from Oregon, killed cows in Oregon, and 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.879 they killed cows in Colorado, and that's all I know 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:40.480 about that. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.159 That's kind of a correction and a kind of an apology. 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:44.280 But I don't know. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:49.200 I do. I think the curve your graph there is important, 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:57.920 right because there's people who will cling to mount stupid 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:04.679 and work their butts off to justify they're once previously 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:11.800 confident position, instead of going down into despair and digging 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:18.000 out through enlightenment and then adjusting their position and saying, hey, 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.080 here's what I know now. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:25.760 Which and and you're beginning the journey towards the plateau sustainability. 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:27.800 It's so dude, I have no idea what's going on 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.840 with wolves. I'll keep working. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.120 On no matter what they eat cows, no matter what 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.159 we talk about on this podcast, I always know that 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.919 there's someone out there who knows way more about it 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.480 than me, and I probably sound dumb unless we're talking 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:43.280 about things like. 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.879 Guns, what you personally did last night. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.080 Yes, what happened to me in the bathroom last night. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:54.399 We try to do our best. 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:56.720 We're going to make some mistakes. We'll do our best 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.840 to correct them. And if we need to, you know, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.280 take a dive down into despair and then climb back out, 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:03.280 will do it. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.119 And just so no one gets the wrong idea. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.600 There was a momentary scare last night when I thought 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.400 I might be the latest victim of taco bells line. 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:11.439 We're gonna get to that. 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.000 Yeah, we'll go to spoiler spoilers. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:18.560 I just didn't want I didn't want to be too. 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:19.720 Thanks for writing in. 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:24.400 Appreciate the great corrections and keep them brief. You're more 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:26.440 likely to get aired if they're brief. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:32.399 Yeah, like this, This next one's pretty short. 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.920 So uh, we've got we've got someone who he's got 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.320 some concerns about hunting and c w c w D zones, 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.280 which is there's not many places that aren't cw D 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.600 zones these days, he writes. My family does all of 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.040 our own butchering and processing. That's great, and over the 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.920 years we've invested a lot of time, money, and effort 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.359 in becoming efficient hunters and processors. Between the cost of 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:01.640 a lease, equipment, fuel, processing supply, and the added risk 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.800 of cw D, I've started asking myself whether hunting is 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.320 still the most practical and economical way to. 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.919 Fill the freezer Financially. 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.320 It almost seems like it would be cheaper to buy 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.280 quality meat from a local butcher. So here's my question, 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.639 how would you approach hunting economically if you lived in 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:24.359 an area where CWD is an endemic, meaning it's like 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.200 high prevalence rates you got to get if you kill 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.680 a deer get it tested. There's a decent chance that's 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:37.800 going to come back positive for CWD. Would you start 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.320 traveling to hunting areas with lower CWD prevalence even if 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:43.720 it means spending more on fuel and time? And at 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:47.600 what point does traveling become the more economical option, both 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.760 financially and in terms of confidence that the meat you're 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:54.640 bringing home will actually fill the freezer that comes from 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.800 Kyle God, if. 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.080 You're hunting economically, you're doing something different than I've ever don. 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.000 Y honest or someone actually did this came up. 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.840 This economically like sustainably hunting thing came up in a 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.280 recent episode. I think it might have been Honest was 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:14.320 covering something. But basically, like the only way you're gonna 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.879 like like save money or break even is by hunting 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:21.959 in your backyard right like like hardly any driving, processing 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.639 your own meat like this guy's doing so that's kind of. 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:27.520 Like not investing in new gear. 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:29.119 Yeah, it's kind of like. 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.840 The whole like saving money thing, as much as much 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:33.840 as it gets talked about, it's not really a thing. 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:36.520 It's just like you're choosing. 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.320 To eat wild game over domestic meat is basically what 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:40.919 it comes to. 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:45.080 I think the other thing too, right, is like this 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.480 is my entertainment dollar, like that we had an offline 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:52.119 conversation about things the lady wants to do for entertainment, 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:56.399 and I'm like, well, that's not where my entertainment dollar goes, right. 0:23:56.440 --> 0:24:00.720 It also goes into hunting. Yeah, as does my mental 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:02.400 health dollar, my physical fitness. 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.360 Some people spend money on going to the beach or 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.040 disney World or whatever. We spend a little money on 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:15.440 going hunt. Like I get the like the debate over 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:17.240 like should I even bother? 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:18.520 Because of CWD. 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.840 There are some areas where like you know, in Doug 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:25.000 Dern's zone of Wisconsin, like your rolling dice if you 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:27.399 shoot a deer right, and it can start to feel 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.800 frustrating when you get that test result back and it's 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.600 positive and you can't eat the thing. You got to 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.000 make a choice, like if it's worth it to you 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:42.800 or not. I would hate to see people like deciding 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.439 just to hang it up because of chronic wasting disease. 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:46.960 We've got it here in the valley. 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:51.320 It's it's maybe not as high prevalence as some areas, 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.640 but it's concerning. You know, I shoot deer here. It's 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:58.439 a it's actually a very cheap economical way for me 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:00.480 to kill a couple of those close to home. 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.480 I get them tested. I've been lucky and haven't had 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:05.800 any positive results, and I'm gonna keep doing it. 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:08.840 Like, I don't know if you've got anything more for 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:12.919 this guy. Like, I just think it's it's like a 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:17.200 reality for hunters that all hunters get, like kind of got. 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:19.840 To confront how they're gonna approach it these days. 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:23.320 Yeah, And I think there's not really enough if we're 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.600 actually running the numbers and trying to figure out if 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.720 it makes sense financially to travel more two areas with 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:34.040 lower prevalence. Does that mean driving an hour or does 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:35.919 that mean driving. 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:36.640 Five hours exactly. 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:37.439 There's not really. 0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:41.159 Anything to go on there, but I guess, like, and 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:46.080 also the comparative rates of infection in those two places, Yeah, 0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:48.000 do you have a one in three chance if you 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:49.119 drive an hour or one? 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:53.640 You know it's but I don't know. 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:56.680 I I think, like your larger point that you'd hate 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.840 to see people hang it up because they're frustrated by 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:04.000 not being able to eat what they kill. That's that 0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:06.680 is just the reality of where we are right now. 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:10.159 Yeah, And it might people might not like it, but 0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:15.760 you are kind of still helping out by shooting deer 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:17.520 that are CWD. 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:18.560 Tags and licenses. 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:18.840 Yeah. 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:22.159 Yeah, and Cal, you made a good point that maybe 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.719 what wouldn't be here or it wouldn't be quite as 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:26.040 bad if. 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.080 If people were actually out there harvesting dose. 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:30.960 Yeah, it's not going to get any better if people 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:34.280 who live in the high CWD areas all decide. 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:34.800 To heart hunt. 0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:35.600 Yeah, exactly. 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:37.000 Outside of those area you're. 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:40.800 Just gonna get higher and higher prevalence rate. So I 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:42.879 don't know if we answered this guy's questions or not 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:44.000 keep hunting. 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:50.119 Keep keep hunting. Yeah, and yeah, I mean i'd be 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:53.480 great if Doug published all of his data because I 0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.960 think they're at like an eighty percent prevalence rate. So 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:58.679 it's like, yeah, it's I mean, you are far more 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:00.520 likely to kill a deer with c to BE'D even 0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:04.879 not yep, yep, but they are are still getting uh, 0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:11.200 non positive deer out there, and the population in Richland 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:11.720 County or. 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:13.399 Is I think that's it? 0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:16.639 Yeah, like does not seem to be going. 0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:22.399 Down right, So there you go, Kyle, Uh, keep shooting 0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:22.840 those deer. 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:31.000 Thanks beating those deer all right, We're ready for the news. 0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:33.960 That's it. That's all you got filmed. 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:34.960 What happened at the end? 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.560 I got eaten by some sort of animal, presumably a 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:38.440 cat of some kind. 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.680 Yeah, and the dude doing doing morrise code. We don't 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:46.080 know what happened to him, A mystery. 0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:47.720 He probably died forty years ago. 0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:54.520 All right, we're gonna talk about this big Pennsylvania Supreme 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:58.359 Court decision that rejects opened the opens field doctrine for 0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:05.040 game wardens. Okay, before I get into that, I'm gonna 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.840 explain open fields in the Fourth Amendment real quick for 0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:09.960 people who aren't familiar. 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:12.320 Uh, we've talked about. 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.320 Open fields before, but I'll give you the quick rundown. 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.760 It's an open fields doctrine is a legal principle established 0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:22.840 by the US Supreme Court that allows law enforcement officers 0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:26.399 to enter and search privately owned open land without. 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:26.959 A search warrant. 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:32.000 Applies to fields for its pastures, and undeveloped land, even 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:35.520 if the property is posted with a no trespassing sign. 0:28:36.160 --> 0:28:39.080 It does not apply to a home's courtlage, meaning the 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:43.200 mediate area surrounding a residence, like outbuildings things like that. 0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:48.080 They remain protected by the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment 0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:51.800 protects people from unfair and unreasonable searches and seizures by 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:55.719 the government. It also states that, with certain exceptions, police 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:59.000 need a warrant to search or search your property or 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:07.640 take take things. So Pennsylvania got rid of it recently. 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:13.080 There's a lawsuit. And before we get into that, game 0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:16.680 wardens and states that operate under the open fields doctrine, 0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:22.040 they typically have more leeway. They operate with more leeway 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:26.520 than other law enforcement personnel might. That's like open to interpretation, 0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:30.000 but it's I think that's a generally like correct statement. 0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:33.239 If you think I'm wrong, you can write in about it, 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:39.040 or these guys will correct me if I'm wrong. Basically, 0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:42.560 what it means is like, let's say a game wardens 0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:46.960 driving down a country road thirty minutes before shooting light. 0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:54.200 Here's some gunshots before or after legal shooting light. Here's 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:58.880 some gunshots. Sounds like a rattat tat kind of shotgun 0:29:58.880 --> 0:29:59.600 shooting thing. 0:30:01.000 --> 0:30:04.840 Waterfowl seasons open. He knows there's a pond next to 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:07.040 a cornfield on this piece of. 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:10.880 Property he's driving by. He could then walk in there 0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:14.120 and see what's going on. Correct, Like is that fair 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:14.760 to say. 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:21.120 Just from the sound, I thought it wasn't. I thought 0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:26.400 they had to see stuff going on. Yeah, that's a 0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:26.880 tough one. 0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:32.760 Anyway, Maybe I've already screwed this up, but okay, let's say, well. 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:36.560 So the thing that I know to absolutely be true 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:41.360 is if your state operates with the open fields doctrine, 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:46.440 it's still up to your game agency or and law 0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:50.520 enforcement agency to say how that's going to be interpreted 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:53.440 in your state. And so there are states that have 0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:57.240 a more liberal interpretation of how they're going to operate. 0:30:57.680 --> 0:30:59.880 And then you know the crazy thing like Idaho just 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:03.880 open fields and they had a very narrow Yeah, it's 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:08.120 like unless it is like egregious in your face, that 0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:10.800 law enforcement officer is not going to walk across the 0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:14.520 property without Yeah, we'll talk a little more about that. 0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:18.680 But not to not to yep, further confused things. But 0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:22.200 I've often heard when examples are given about open fields, 0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:25.080 I've often heard the sound of a gunshot as. 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.640 Being no no, sort of no no, like being. 0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:30.760 The instigating fast That's what I've heard. That's I would 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:31.920 agree with you that that's. 0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:35.440 Another example might be like game wardens driving down the road, 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.360 sees a deer hanging in a garage deer seasons not open, yes, 0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:40.360 something like that, yep. 0:31:40.880 --> 0:31:43.080 Or a bull elk in the case of Montana, sure yep. 0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:45.040 Yeah, he doesn't need to go to a judge and 0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:47.800 get a search warrant to go investigate that. 0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:51.640 Now, before we get into this Pennsylvania thing, I want 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:55.280 to make something really clear and covering this story where like, 0:31:55.440 --> 0:31:59.240 in no way trying to portray game wardens or conservation 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:01.760 officers as the enemy, because they're they're not. 0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:03.840 They're doing a vitally. 0:32:03.520 --> 0:32:08.480 Important job protecting people in wildlife, and they're also performing difficult, 0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:13.400 sometimes dangerous law enforcement duties like catching poachers that are 0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:17.800 stealing wildlife from you and me. And I'm willing to 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:21.080 go way out on the limb to say that, Like 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:25.240 when it comes to like private property rights, most game 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:31.600 wardens in most places like Buy Necessity have worked really 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:35.200 hard to cultivate a good working relationship with the private 0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:37.920 landowners in the area they patrol. Like it's just like 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:42.920 they're not operating in a way where they're going to 0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:45.880 have these antagonistic relationships with landowners. 0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:48.680 It's just going to make their job impossible. So I 0:32:48.760 --> 0:32:49.240 just want to. 0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:52.240 Like get that out there first before we get into 0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:59.480 the particulars of this case. We'll get into the the 0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:02.920 actual case and then get into the like the pros 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:06.160 and cons of it after I talk about what happened 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:12.400 in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision just this month game 0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:16.360 wardens was must generally obtain a warrant before entering posted, 0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:22.440 private posted private property. A Supreme Court decision rejected the 0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:28.120 open fields doctrine. The federal open fields doctrine still exists 0:33:28.200 --> 0:33:32.240 under the US Constitution, but in Pennsylvania it was a 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:39.240 seven zero Supreme Court decision Punksatani Hunting Club Incorporated versus 0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:45.560 Pennsylvania Game Commission, So it significantly spans private property protections 0:33:45.640 --> 0:33:46.880 in the state of Pennsylvania. 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:49.240 The court ruled. 0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:54.520 Officers again must generally obtain a search warrant before entering 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:59.240 clearly posted, fence gated, or otherwise marked private property to 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:07.600 investigate wildlife violations. The decision overturns Pennsylvania Supreme Courts two 0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:11.840 thousand and seven ruling Commonwealth versus Russo, which had allowed 0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:13.520 game wardens to enter open. 0:34:13.280 --> 0:34:15.320 Fields on private land without a warrant. 0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:18.760 Now, the case background is there's a couple of hunting 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:22.280 clubs in Pennsylvania, the Punkstani Hunting Club and the pitch 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:26.160 Pine Hunting Club that challenged the Game Commission's authority to 0:34:26.400 --> 0:34:27.560 enter posted lands. 0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:29.640 There's some history here. 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.760 The clubs alleged that Pennsylvania Game warns entered their posted 0:34:33.840 --> 0:34:38.160 private posted property dozens of times over several years without 0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:43.279 permission or a search warrant. According to court filings, they 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:47.840 hid in camouflage on club property, conducted surveillance with binoculars, 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.920 installed trail cameras on the club's land without without the 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:55.400 owner's knowledge or consent. Now this is this is like 0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:59.320 more recent happenings. This all goes back to a twenty 0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:04.120 thirteen incident after a game warden confronted a member of 0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:09.440 the pitch Pine Hunting Club over allegedly feeding bears. The 0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:12.800 member later learned that the officer had been secretly observing 0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:16.719 activity activity on the club's property for several days. No 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:22.520 citation was issued, but the club members objected to you know, 0:35:22.640 --> 0:35:27.719 the the activity that was going on since twenty thirteen, 0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:34.400 Game Commission officers entered the club's posted private property fifteen 0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:37.600 to twenty two times. I'm not sure about the why 0:35:37.640 --> 0:35:41.560 there's a number that that number is not exact. I'm 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:43.920 sure if you got into the details of the court 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:45.960 case you'd understand. 0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:46.320 Why it's not exact. 0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:50.680 But enough times that they viewed it as a major problem, 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:54.680 again without consent a warrant or probable cause. During some 0:35:54.760 --> 0:36:00.400 of those entries, game warden Mark Gritzer issued citations to 0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:04.719 individual hunters or club members for alleged violations of the 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:10.719 game Code. This Supreme Court opinion doesn't specify how many 0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:14.480 citations were issued, or whether people were convicted or anything 0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:18.319 like that. The club's lawsuit was not an appeal of 0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:23.160 those those violations or citations. It just it's trying to 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:25.839 get Their goal was to get a declaration that the 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:29.520 Game Commission can't just like come onto their property whenever 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:35.240 they want. So obviously they they they won the argument. 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:42.000 Pennsylvania Supreme Court ultimately agreed that the state constitution. State 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:46.360 constitution provides greater privacy protections than the federal Open Fields 0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:50.160 Doctrine and requires warrants. So that's that's where we're at 0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:55.000 right now. What wardens can still do, uh, they can 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:59.200 still enter unposted, unmarked private land without a warrant. In 0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:04.040 some circums stances, observe violations occurring in plane view from 0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:09.640 lawful locations, rely on recognized exceptions to the warrant requirements 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:14.880 such as consent or exigent circumstances. So that explains like 0:37:15.920 --> 0:37:18.880 how they can still get on private property, like yeah. 0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:22.800 There's like an emergency, yeah, sitution situation, so like they're 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:28.480 they're compelled to go help in a medical situation that 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:34.359 they observe or you know, an active crime obs from 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:36.440 the county road YEP. 0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:41.680 So, largest expansion of private property rights in Pennsylvania wildlife 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:46.640 law in decades. It's going to require, uh, some adjustment 0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:50.960 for how game wardens and conservation officers do their work 0:37:51.960 --> 0:37:59.440 investigating suspected hunting and wildlife violations, and it could influence 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:06.520 similar legal challenges in other states. Supporters of the decision 0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:11.080 like are generally like very much in favor of Fourth 0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:14.560 Amendment constitutional private property and privacy rights. 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:19.759 That's basically what it comes down to. 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:24.799 Getting rid of opens fields treats conservation officers more like 0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:29.080 other law enforcement officers that when conducting searches. So it's 0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:33.680 like there's a Fourth Amendment rights argument the people that 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:39.799 are supporting the decision. Critics say the ruling can make 0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:42.319 it a lot more difficult for game wardens to do 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:47.480 their job. Requiring warrants slows things down, especially in remote 0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:52.560 areas where a game warden knows there's a violation going on, 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:55.040 he's trying to investigate it, but he can't, so he's 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:56.960 got to drive all the way back into town and 0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:59.920 track down the district attorney, a judge, get a warm 0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:03.279 go back, and by the time he's gone back, you know, 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:06.919 any evidence of a crime or or the actual crime 0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:07.480 is just like. 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.560 Not happening by the time they get back. 0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:14.400 So that's that's what critics argue, you know, for the 0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:21.360 open fields doctrine. I did some research on other states. 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:23.560 I kind of like, I didn't I guess I thought 0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:24.719 this was almost like a. 0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.759 First time thing with Pennsylvania. 0:39:26.920 --> 0:39:31.640 But there are at least nine to ten other states 0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:42.560 that have rejected the open fields doctrine. Mississippi, Montana, New York, Oregon, Idaho, Tennessee, Vermont, Washington, Pennsylvania. 0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:43.520 South Dakota. 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:49.040 They recognize and operate under open fields with very strict 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:52.440 limits on what the conservation officers can actually do and 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:53.959 cal you kind of alluded to that. 0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:55.840 And that's the way it is in Idaho to. 0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:59.640 Yeah, I mean it was prior to this. Yeah, and 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:03.600 that's like what was interesting about I mean the other 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:12.719 interesting thing that the new Court decisions are all being litigated 0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:16.759 pro bono by Institute for Justice. I would really I 0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:19.960 don't And this is something that I don't understand, is 0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:23.920 what's their stake in this? 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:24.560 Yeah? 0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:28.319 Actually I spoke with that that litigator. Okay, he reached 0:40:28.320 --> 0:40:30.920 out after he saw Ste's video and he is purely 0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:35.560 a Fourth Amendment guy like this, it just happens to 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:37.759 be the game wardens are at the crosshairs of this thing. 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:40.360 And he's like, if there was a if there's a 0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:42.839 DA agent who was using open fields doctrine to do 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:45.279 something with a drug bust, I would litigate that because 0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.239 I think the Fourth Amendments so important and who doesn't 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.240 have a bone to pick with hunters or game warnings. 0:40:50.280 --> 0:40:52.080 These are just the situations that are arising. 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:52.880 Yeah. 0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:56.400 So he was the one who litigated rain waters in Tennessee. 0:40:56.600 --> 0:41:03.000 Yeah. Yeah, and there are yeah, there's all sorts of instances, right, 0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:06.640 It's kind of like when we talk about individual animals. 0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.239 I named this mountain lion, So it's really important and 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.880 now it's emblematic of the entire population. Yeah, there's certain 0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:16.960 instances where I think most people would all agree like, 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.880 oh my god, that is a gross overstep of authority 0:41:21.080 --> 0:41:24.560 and abuse of power. But the other thing that we 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:27.520 have to balance this is it is all public wildlife. 0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:32.520 And just like a super quick story Idaho, that one 0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:35.640 was brutal for me because it is such. It is 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:41.279 the most serious migratory state I have ever hunted. Like 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.000 you see, you're like, oh my god, this is what 0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:48.120 a migration looks like. Yeah, and you know, a state 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:54.000 known for big, awesome mule deer. One time I got 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:57.120 permission to hunt on this place. The guy's like, oh, 0:41:57.160 --> 0:41:59.960 you like mule deer. Look in the shop and there's 0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:07.760 this row of dusty almost forgotten, truly giant muley racks 0:42:07.840 --> 0:42:11.399 like like things today that would just blow blow people's mind. 0:42:11.840 --> 0:42:16.239 And it was, you know, generations, and they were like, 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:18.520 nobody knows about them. It is safe to say nobody 0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:21.640 knows about them. There's a whole Robbie Denning's book on 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:25.239 like big Bucks Idaho that these things aren't in there, right, 0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:27.120 But it's because. 0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:30.200 This rack your blood boiling. I bet this ranch. 0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:34.040 Is in and I was hunting birds right this rash, 0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.680 this ranch is in like when it was the heavy 0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:41.120 snows forever. This is where all the big bucks end up. 0:42:42.200 --> 0:42:47.399 And it is feasible with the state of mule deer 0:42:47.400 --> 0:42:52.160 and muldier genetics right now, that if you had bad actors, yep, 0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:59.439 they could, they could literally eliminate the ability for those 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:01.160 types of g is to be passed on. 0:43:01.360 --> 0:43:06.799 Or at least make some serious bucks killing bucks like allowing. 0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:08.560 Oh you know what I mean, Yeah, I mean that 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:11.640 that too. But if it's like, you know, and I 0:43:11.880 --> 0:43:15.800 was hunting turkeys onto place this year, just for instance. 0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:23.280 It was awesome. It's huge, and I was driving out 0:43:23.520 --> 0:43:26.640 and you know, it's like calving season during turkey season, 0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:30.680 so all the ranch activities on one place. Nobody's on 0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:32.239 the whole rest of the ranch. And I was like, God, 0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:34.120 you could just live out here and nobody know about it. 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:37.040 And sure enough, I get stopped on the way out, 0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:39.440 They're like, what are you doing. I was like, I 0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:43.680 was hunting turkeys. They're like, oh, okay, great, didn't know. 0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:47.439 I was like, yeah, Like you get lost back there, right, 0:43:47.520 --> 0:43:52.120 So there are many instances where this isn't just like 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:56.680 a crazy theory, right, And part of law enforcement on 0:43:56.680 --> 0:44:01.160 the landscape is wildlife management, which is a public So 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.200 if it is not your buddy at Western Justice or 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:09.160 Institute for Justice, right, this isn't a solve for anything. 0:44:09.200 --> 0:44:12.640 In my mind, this is like ripping open this can 0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:18.080 of worms, and we need the ability to regulate the 0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:23.360 take and management of public wildlife. It is a public 0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:26.399 resource in the United States. Yeah, so if this isn't 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:27.239 the answer, what is it? 0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:30.760 Yeah, I mean that that's the question. 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:37.520 Is enforcement becomes kind of impossible in certain situations. 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:37.160 And. 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:43.239 Like part of the the Like this kind of gets 0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:45.680 away from what we're talking about, but part. 0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:50.840 Of the the effectiveness of game wardens is is knowing 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:55.120 they could just show up at any time, knowing that 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:59.239 maybe they won't show up, but knowing that they could 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:01.799 be glass and you from a county road and you're. 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:03.480 Two miles up the hillside or whatever. 0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:07.600 Like, knowing that they're out there doing their job like 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:10.320 makes them effective even when they're not around. 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:14.280 It's part of the deterrent puzzle. Yes, high or whatever. 0:45:14.280 --> 0:45:20.680 If you're you know, completely hidden from view on private property. Look, 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.680 most hunters aren't bad actors, but there are bad actors 0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:27.240 out there who would take advantage. 0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:29.680 Of this situation, I feel like unfortunately. 0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:34.480 I think one other piece he raised that was interesting 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:37.880 is the difference between state and federal enforcement. Sure like 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:41.440 because of the supremacy clause the Constitution, the Fourth Amendment, 0:45:41.600 --> 0:45:45.719 when when federal officers are enforcing federal statutes, they can 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:49.520 still use open fields throughout the US, but state officers 0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:53.359 cannot unless they're cross deputized. And that is another thing 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:54.719 that's going to get real muddy here now. 0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:55.240 Yeah. 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:58.719 Yeah, And there are situations where hunters would have to 0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:02.880 deal with with federal officers for sure, on wildlife refugees 0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:06.360 and things like that, but uh, private land, you know, 0:46:06.400 --> 0:46:07.879 I'm not sure how that would play out. 0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:10.040 So there you go. 0:46:10.719 --> 0:46:14.920 I think if I had a crystal ball like Steve would, 0:46:15.000 --> 0:46:19.400 I would say probably more states are gonna go this 0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:21.680 direction if I if I had to make a prediction. 0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:27.400 So we're done with that crap. Let's move on to 0:46:27.480 --> 0:46:28.240 Randall's crap. 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:32.640 Thanks Brody. 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:33.719 Man. 0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:38.360 I came across this story and I just couldn't look away. 0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:44.480 There was a coverage of a dissertation that was just 0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:49.040 completed at Penn State by a doctoral researcher named Jack 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:57.000 Edleson or Adelson, and they they looked at public This 0:46:57.000 --> 0:46:59.919 this dissertation was touted as perhaps the most in depth 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:03.640 coverage of public study of public land pooping habits. 0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:06.839 And I didn't need to know any more at that point. 0:47:06.840 --> 0:47:08.360 I knew it needed to be sure hooked. 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:15.879 Yeah, So what this study encompassed was the researcher went 0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:19.880 to three different sites. Most of the coverage in the 0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:25.000 press has focused on what they did at Colorado. At 0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:27.160 Mount Albert, which is one of the fourteen ers. I 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:28.680 believe it's the tallest. 0:47:28.440 --> 0:47:31.200 Super busy close to Denver. Gets a lot of trap. 0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:31.640 Yeah, it gets. 0:47:31.719 --> 0:47:35.880 It gets fifteen to twenty thousand hikers a year, and 0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:39.120 it's an eight hour round trip with no bathroom once 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:40.160 you leave the trailhead. 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:42.640 So obviously, how do people survive? 0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:46.040 Well, that's I mean, people survive, but they also duke 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:51.680 along the way. In fact, what eleven percent of the 0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:56.640 people that were contacted during this study, which involved reaching 0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:59.359 out to people at the trailhead, asking them about their 0:47:59.440 --> 0:48:02.239 hike and I'll get to this in a minute, encouraging 0:48:02.360 --> 0:48:06.040 them to adopt new habits when it comes to pooping 0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:09.360 in the wild eleven percent of the people they contacted 0:48:09.400 --> 0:48:11.520 reported defecating during their hike. 0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:14.800 That's a lot of that's a lot of feasts. 0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:22.920 Yeah, and so what the what the focus of this was. 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:27.600 Was there trying to encourage people or understand how receptive 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.560 people would be to packing out their own waste. We're 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:35.600 all familiar with the doggy doodoo bag and humans, you 0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:38.480 don't necessarily use that. Use what's called a wag bag. 0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:42.080 And here's where I learned something very new to myself. 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:44.400 She's a little overlap with new dad advice. Do we 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:48.280 do use the dog poop bags for the kid poop diapers? 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:51.239 Do you know what a wag bag would? It's an acronym. 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:52.160 It's way big. 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:53.560 Do you know what I stand for? 0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:56.560 I used them back in the past life, and I 0:48:56.560 --> 0:48:57.480 don't know what they stand for. 0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:00.759 I'd never I always thought it was like a slang term. 0:49:00.920 --> 0:49:03.640 It's a waste aggregation and gelling bag. 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:06.040 Huh oh powder in there. 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:06.640 Yeah, it's a. 0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:11.160 Little puncture resistant bag that usually has a gelling powder 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:20.280 with end resistance and theoretically puncture resistant that the purpose 0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:23.520 of the jelling powder is to neutralize odor. And then 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.799 it's you can use this just throw it in the trash. 0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:30.920 So long story short, there's a lot of people duking 0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:35.920 on on Mount Albert and this researcher set up at 0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:39.840 the trailhead and they gave out wag bags to people 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:43.239 and they tracked who used it. They asked people, They 0:49:43.239 --> 0:49:45.600 asked hikers what would get what would get them to 0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:48.759 use wag bags because and this was especially I think 0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:53.200 prominent during COVID, was the amount of there's certain parts 0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:56.160 of our public lands that are just so heavily trafficked 0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:59.640 that it's inescapable that there's going to be you know, 0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:01.680 it's like you go to some place around Bozman and 0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:05.480 it's covered in dogshit. Like there's places like Mount Elbert 0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:08.320 where it's it's also an escapable Yeah. 0:50:08.200 --> 0:50:11.800 I mean you come across places where there's just toilet 0:50:11.800 --> 0:50:13.920 paper scattered all over the ground. 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:14.719 Yeah, I mean. 0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:21.000 So, so what they found was that people were actually 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:25.759 very receptive to using wag bags. The big thing was 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:29.280 cost and how hard it was to get your hands 0:50:29.320 --> 0:50:33.160 on a wag bag. So eighty percent of hikers said 0:50:33.160 --> 0:50:38.719 they would try a free wag bag. They said it 0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:42.080 was easy, they said, And so essentially they provided people 0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:44.600 with wag bags, and they had a receptacle at the trailhead, 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:49.440 and people adopted this, I think surprisingly well. 0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:51.439 So they just had like a kiosk where you could 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:52.520 just grab one before you. 0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:56.120 Exactly, yeah, exactly, And the other The other thing that's 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:57.640 interesting about this is that. 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:00.680 Putting in a vault toilet at. 0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:04.239 A trailhead is huge, Like, it's a huge expense, and 0:51:04.320 --> 0:51:07.279 there's obviously maintenance and up keep required with that. But 0:51:07.360 --> 0:51:10.759 if you can provide people with wag bags at a 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:14.920 trailhead and a receptacle to dispose of them, there's probably 0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:18.279 gonna be a lot less toilet paper scattered around that 0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:21.600 trailhead if it's a toiletless trailhead, and there's gonna be 0:51:21.600 --> 0:51:22.840 a lot less toilet paper and. 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:29.600 Crap along the trail. So you know, it's not it's this. 0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:32.040 This isn't a I would say that's a trend though, 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:37.160 right Like most if you give people a reasonable option, 0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:40.600 there's going to be a high adaptation rate because most 0:51:40.600 --> 0:51:43.640 people just don't know, they haven't taken the time to 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.640 figure it out, right yeah, or it's just out of 0:51:46.680 --> 0:51:48.800 the realm of things that they think about, right. 0:51:48.680 --> 0:51:51.840 Well, yeah, I can see like I can see it 0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:54.400 being promising and I can see it working. 0:51:54.520 --> 0:51:58.279 Like back when I was guiding, we used to use 0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:00.440 a couple of really busy. 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:04.760 Rams on on the Colorado River and they were on BLM, 0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:08.560 like there's campgrounds and and like it was developed sites 0:52:08.680 --> 0:52:12.640 and the BLM took the trash cans away as soon 0:52:12.680 --> 0:52:15.680 as they did that. There was no never any trash 0:52:15.760 --> 0:52:16.719 laying around. 0:52:16.440 --> 0:52:17.200 At those sites. 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:21.480 So I could see like a similar thing if you'd 0:52:21.480 --> 0:52:24.520 get rid of the vault toilets and they give the 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:27.160 maybe give the the wag bags away, that it would 0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:32.839 work better as far as like large scale use without 0:52:33.160 --> 0:52:36.040 having access to that free kios, I'm not I don't know. 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:40.400 Yeah, well, I mean the dog poop equivalent, right, Like 0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:44.240 why isn't the adaptation rate higher? 0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:46.719 Yeah? Right? 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:50.960 Like I was at a local boat launch throwing for 0:52:51.000 --> 0:52:54.520 the dog the other day and she took off with 0:52:54.600 --> 0:52:57.239 the with the bumper into the woods and then came 0:52:57.280 --> 0:53:00.520 back without it and did that reached even Yeah? And 0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:02.319 I'm like, where the hell is the thing. This is 0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:06.239 the puppy, you know, And I was like, oh my god, 0:53:06.360 --> 0:53:10.839 the poop per per square foot yeah here is oh yeah, horrifying. 0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:12.440 Yeah. 0:53:12.480 --> 0:53:15.520 And I guess you know, this is one of those 0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:19.200 things where the fact that there's a dissertation, I feel 0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:22.359 like there's often when something like this makes the news, 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:25.280 there's people laughing like, Oh, you can get a doctorate 0:53:25.360 --> 0:53:28.400 for studying poop, but you need this data in this 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:34.280 research to get agencies or nonprofits or whatever to spend 0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:38.240 money to try this out, because what the data shows 0:53:38.320 --> 0:53:42.000 is that the assumption that hikers won't do this, Yeah, 0:53:42.040 --> 0:53:45.879 that assumption is wrong, and it's great. Great making an 0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:49.600 incremental change in the way that people impact public lands 0:53:49.680 --> 0:53:51.560 is going to add up in the long run. 0:53:51.680 --> 0:53:52.520 Yeah, for sure. 0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:56.239 I think there's like I think there's also like just 0:53:56.280 --> 0:53:59.520 a lack of awareness, especially on the part of you know, 0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:02.239 I don't want to put hikers in the crossair, but 0:54:02.360 --> 0:54:06.399 like kind of day hikers that don't spend a lot 0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:08.480 of a lot of you know, as much time outside 0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:12.600 as us. Let's say, just like a lack of awareness 0:54:13.040 --> 0:54:16.480 that that's even an option. You know, maybe a lack 0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:19.440 of awareness that you should if you do, if you 0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:22.600 wag bags, aren't an option that you should get one hundred. 0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:24.880 Yards or more off the trail and bury it. Just 0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:27.000 you know, I think it's kind of like, oh, I 0:54:27.000 --> 0:54:28.239 got to go, so I'm gonna go. 0:54:28.400 --> 0:54:31.160 You know, we're just just even just pack out, like 0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:32.720 bury it and pack out the paper. 0:54:32.960 --> 0:54:33.240 Yeah. 0:54:33.239 --> 0:54:34.879 That's one thing I've been doing a lot more. 0:54:34.960 --> 0:54:37.400 Yeah, is I always have like my day snacks in 0:54:37.800 --> 0:54:41.279 a big gallon baggie, dump all my snacks, my pack, 0:54:41.880 --> 0:54:44.919 stuff all that paper in there, and then forget about 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:47.480 it and leave your pack in the bed of your 0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:50.319 truck for four days and then open it up the 0:54:50.320 --> 0:54:52.640 next time you need to go out and you realize 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:56.640 that there's multiple day old feast smear on all that, 0:54:57.120 --> 0:54:57.920 on all that cotton. 0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:01.680 Now, so back to you, brody, back to me. 0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:05.600 Actually, actually we're moving on to cal and wetlands, aren't we. 0:55:05.880 --> 0:55:06.279 All right? 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:11.200 This is good timing because I I'm down to just 0:55:11.200 --> 0:55:13.759 a handful of fatty ducks in the freezer and we 0:55:13.840 --> 0:55:17.640 had two widgeon and two teal last night, and. 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:24.680 My god, just so good, so good. The US Fish 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:28.760 and Wildlife Service has opened a fourteen day public comment 0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:33.120 period on a Request for Information that's r f I 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:38.120 government speak about drain tile setbacks. Drain tile is a 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:41.480 chunk of PVC with holes in it. You put it 0:55:41.560 --> 0:55:49.040 sub surface, and it expedites the drainage of water. And 0:55:49.080 --> 0:55:53.560 you can do this on large landscapes and drain whole 0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:55.960 wetlands if you wanted to. 0:55:56.120 --> 0:56:01.960 If you're let's say a developer and you want to 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:05.320 build some stuff, but there's a there's a pesky wetlands 0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:06.960 in the way, this is how you might. 0:56:07.760 --> 0:56:09.440 This is This would be a tool that you could 0:56:09.560 --> 0:56:15.560 use if you are a farmer that doesn't like to 0:56:15.760 --> 0:56:19.600 make turns around things and loves those straight lines, which 0:56:19.760 --> 0:56:24.439 is the efficiency of farming argument. This would be a 0:56:24.480 --> 0:56:29.160 tool that you could have in your quiver. And we 0:56:29.239 --> 0:56:31.840 have some visuals here, Phil, would you mind pulling up 0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:36.319 the topographic map so it doesn't look like much on 0:56:36.360 --> 0:56:40.040 the map here, So uh, there's there's your wetland obviously 0:56:40.200 --> 0:56:45.760 in the middle. This is very emblematic of the prairie 0:56:45.840 --> 0:56:48.960 pothole region. This is the snapshot of South Dakota, and 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.919 this is like retreating glacier country. So there's a bunch 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:54.320 of little holes out there. A lot of those holes 0:56:54.680 --> 0:56:58.000 sometimes got deeper because the bison would use them to wallow, 0:56:58.640 --> 0:57:05.560 and those fill up with rain intermittently and they boom 0:57:05.640 --> 0:57:08.520 with life because little grass grasses and stuff. 0:57:09.200 --> 0:57:12.280 This is like the breeding duck factory of North America. 0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:15.480 It is the breeding duck factory. And then it is 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:21.360 how these fledgling ducks get all their little invertebrates to 0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:26.720 become big ducks that I shoot and snort retrieves. It's 0:57:26.760 --> 0:57:29.960 a circle of life thing, right. But it's the intermittent 0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:33.040 nature of these things, the thing that means that they 0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:36.520 they're dry, sometimes they're wet sometimes often multiple times throughout 0:57:36.520 --> 0:57:40.400 the year. That give people the idea that they don't matter, 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:45.600 but that in fact is how disease issues are mitigated 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:50.160 naturally bacteria, and you get these little bumper crops of 0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:54.560 zoplankton and phytoplankton that create the invert invertebrates. And then 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:55.560 the birds. 0:57:55.640 --> 0:58:00.520 And way more like important, way beyond just waterfowl. 0:58:00.840 --> 0:58:04.640 Yes, pollinators, all sorts of migratory birds that we don't 0:58:04.680 --> 0:58:10.680 consider huntable, and they're magnets for big game. Back when 0:58:10.680 --> 0:58:12.600 I was doing a lot of spot and stock mule 0:58:12.640 --> 0:58:17.440 the er hunting, these little intermint wetlands and most of 0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:22.480 these are under half an acre that we're talking about 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:27.880 today are magnets for big bucks laying laying it out 0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:30.919 because they can see forever around them, and then Phil, 0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:34.280 let's slip over to the satellite image here, please, then 0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:39.400 you can see, oh my gosh, the real worldview is 0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:45.720 there's a lot more potential habitat out there than what's 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:51.280 on the map. So there's different types of intermint wetlands 0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:55.600 and what we're coming down to and what they want. 0:58:55.840 --> 0:58:59.400 And this request for information is to weigh in on 0:59:01.920 --> 0:59:06.560 if there needs to be any changes, and the change 0:59:06.720 --> 0:59:11.480 would be converting US Fish and Wildlife Service wetland conservation 0:59:11.560 --> 0:59:17.760 easements to the language of possibly NRCS wetland conservation easements. 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:23.400 And the reason that these two different definitions exist is 0:59:23.440 --> 0:59:27.160 not because of oh my god, government ineptitude. It's because 0:59:27.400 --> 0:59:31.160 you want to give people options out there. And the 0:59:31.280 --> 0:59:35.000 NRCS version you can put drain tile a lot closer, 0:59:35.720 --> 0:59:39.720 and if you flip back over to our topo map, 0:59:40.440 --> 0:59:44.760 you can see it's obviously a lot easier to affect 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:47.560 some of these smaller wetlands than the bigger wetlands. So 0:59:47.600 --> 0:59:50.160 the closer you get with that drain tile, the faster 0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:52.680 that water moves out out and that's no longer an 0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:53.720 intermittent wetland. 0:59:54.080 --> 0:59:59.080 Does wotis or the clean water at come into play 0:59:59.080 --> 1:00:01.640 at all in this stuff, or no, well. 1:00:02.160 --> 1:00:05.720 Yeah, it's a it's a big suit here because Lotus 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:11.080 and the Clean Water Act of Bolsene revisions here that 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:13.680 that helped grease the wheels with with some of this. 1:00:13.840 --> 1:00:18.560 The big thing for people to understand is, even with 1:00:18.760 --> 1:00:23.040 the the broader protections of the fringe in the your 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:29.160 US Fish and Wildlife Service wetland conservation isma, your your 1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:32.800 farmer or your rancher out there has the ability to 1:00:34.520 --> 1:00:38.320 plant grass in there. They can hay it, they can 1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:44.520 graze cattle depending on what agreement you have. You can 1:00:44.800 --> 1:00:46.960 also do road crops in there if you if you 1:00:47.000 --> 1:00:51.400 want to, but you can't burn it or plow it under. 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:57.520 And you know, so there's this tapestry of things that 1:00:57.560 --> 1:01:01.800 you can do, and you're paid upfront in a willing buyer, 1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:06.600 willing seller agreement, and everybody in this room has paid 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:11.640 into it, even old Phil over there. So Phil, your 1:01:11.720 --> 1:01:16.680 duck stamp dollars go to conservation esments, wetland conservation easements, 1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:20.840 as do Pittman Robertson dollars. And if you've ever bought 1:01:20.840 --> 1:01:25.520 a state waterfowl stamp voluntarily, that's that's where this cash 1:01:25.600 --> 1:01:35.120 goes a lot of times too. So by converting this 1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:40.960 to a lesser i would say lesser requirement, we stand 1:01:40.960 --> 1:01:45.040 to lose hundreds of thousands of acres of intermittent wetlands 1:01:45.400 --> 1:01:49.840 that we've already paid for, and these are supposed to 1:01:49.880 --> 1:01:55.160 be perpetual. And we've lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1:01:55.160 --> 1:01:59.400 about eighty percent of our wetlands throughout the Prairie Pothole 1:01:59.440 --> 1:02:11.040 region already. Montana has lost over thirty percent, Minnesota fifty percent, 1:02:11.080 --> 1:02:16.160 Wisconsin fifty percent, and then in the Dakotas it's somewhere 1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:23.040 in there between thirty and fifty percent of of preexisting wetlands. 1:02:23.120 --> 1:02:29.720 So this is a big deal. And if you like 1:02:29.840 --> 1:02:33.480 hunting ducks and you like biodiversity out there on the prairie, 1:02:33.960 --> 1:02:36.680 which by the way, is one of the biggest factors 1:02:36.680 --> 1:02:38.800 in having kids come back and work on the farm, 1:02:39.560 --> 1:02:42.480 is if there's actual pretty things to look at and 1:02:42.480 --> 1:02:47.040 it's not just a flat landscape, is biodiversity, then you 1:02:47.160 --> 1:02:49.680 got a couple of days left here to right in 1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:54.280 We have an action alert out at the Backcountry Hunters 1:02:54.280 --> 1:03:01.000 dot Org website Ducks Unlimited Delta Waterfowl. Will all give 1:03:01.040 --> 1:03:04.600 you the tools to just kind of click. We'll give 1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:08.320 you the language. You can make up your own mind 1:03:08.360 --> 1:03:09.800 on whether or not this is a good thing or 1:03:09.800 --> 1:03:12.680 a bad thing, and then you can really really easily 1:03:12.720 --> 1:03:16.560 weigh in to our buddy old Brian Neswick there at 1:03:16.680 --> 1:03:18.320 use US Fish and Wildlife Service. 1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:25.280 Speaking of Brian Nesbit, what like did the US Fish 1:03:25.280 --> 1:03:27.680 and Wildlife Service just kind of come up on this 1:03:28.400 --> 1:03:31.000 on their own? Like where did the impetus for this 1:03:31.080 --> 1:03:32.560 come from? Who did it come from? 1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:37.360 Well, that is a great question, Brody, because many people 1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:43.440 have asked, Hey, cal I've read this and read this, 1:03:43.760 --> 1:03:46.200 and I can't see the problem that they're trying to 1:03:46.240 --> 1:03:49.120 fix because it seems like there's a lot of options 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:52.480 out there, including whether or not you would enter into 1:03:52.520 --> 1:03:55.080 one of these agreements at all is a choice that 1:03:55.120 --> 1:04:00.160 you can make. And there's there's drain tile companies out 1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:04.680 there that are pushing this pretty heavy. There's been some 1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:07.960 some statements and some media out there as to why 1:04:08.040 --> 1:04:11.720 this is a good thing and it's it's coming from 1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:13.840 that industry. 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:19.440 Is there any congressman, senators, et cetera attached to. 1:04:20.880 --> 1:04:22.440 That this at all or. 1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:27.840 Yet John Thune in North Dakota, who is also the 1:04:29.520 --> 1:04:31.400 I want to say Speaker of the House. That's not right, 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:35.280 he is the Senate. Yeah, Majority Senatority leader. Thank you, 1:04:35.320 --> 1:04:35.760 there you go. 1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:36.800 Yeah. 1:04:37.040 --> 1:04:40.040 So landowners who sold these months agreed not to drain, 1:04:40.240 --> 1:04:45.800 burn level or fill wetlands, but are otherwise able to work, farm, 1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:49.680 hay and graze any that dry up or drain naturally. 1:04:50.640 --> 1:04:56.840 In addition, some some good neighbor policies were adapted I 1:04:56.880 --> 1:05:03.880 think back in twenty twenty four to address this idea 1:05:03.960 --> 1:05:08.480 that you might be unfairly prosecuted if you adhere to 1:05:08.560 --> 1:05:13.360 the guidelines and you install drain tile outside of the 1:05:13.360 --> 1:05:17.560 fringe under either your NRCS or US Fish and Wildlife 1:05:17.640 --> 1:05:20.160 Service contract, and you do it to the letter of 1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:23.800 the law. It's called safe harbor. That you are protected 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:31.760 if there's for whatever reason that thing drains anyway, just 1:05:31.840 --> 1:05:36.000 basically giving the nod to the farmer saying like, you're 1:05:36.040 --> 1:05:42.480 not a geomarphologist a hydrologist, you're a farmer, and mistakes 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:47.000 can be made. So it's a big one and a 1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:49.440 big question that we're asking around back country hunters and 1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:53.240 anglers a lot these days is Oh my god, what 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:55.680 is the impact and what happens to the back country 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:59.240 if the front country goes away? Yep, And this is 1:05:59.280 --> 1:06:01.040 a good way to make the rent country go away. 1:06:01.120 --> 1:06:04.920 So you're on X, has all these intermnt wetlands out there, 1:06:04.960 --> 1:06:07.840 look at the TAPO layer and then just do some 1:06:08.040 --> 1:06:11.800 driving around and you can do it very easily in 1:06:11.840 --> 1:06:17.080 the next seven days. Do some driving around and go, Okay, 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:20.640 I'm gonna go see this thing on the map. And 1:06:21.560 --> 1:06:25.960 it is wild how much of the time you pull 1:06:26.080 --> 1:06:30.200 up and you're like, oh, there is nothing there, so 1:06:30.280 --> 1:06:32.680 we save there. You're there at the wrong time of 1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:35.880 the year, or it's in production, or it just does 1:06:35.920 --> 1:06:36.920 not exist anymore. 1:06:39.720 --> 1:06:41.400 I might just I might have missed this or just 1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:44.640 don't understand because I don't know anything about farming and ranching. 1:06:44.880 --> 1:06:47.360 But what's the what's the advantage of moving those drain 1:06:47.440 --> 1:06:53.439 tiles closer? Like that just makes more like arable land exactly. Yeah, yep, yeah, 1:06:53.480 --> 1:06:58.560 it's something that you don't have to drive slightly around. Again, 1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:00.840 most of these things everybody thinks. So like these big 1:07:00.880 --> 1:07:05.320 wetland complexes, which are very important too, oftentimes for different 1:07:05.320 --> 1:07:09.880 reasons and different species of of huntable waterfowl. But it's 1:07:09.920 --> 1:07:12.680 these little tiny pockets and puddles and one of the 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:16.720 coolest things like in Montana because we have, you know, 1:07:16.760 --> 1:07:20.520 a lot of really shallow wetlands and when those rains 1:07:20.560 --> 1:07:24.800 come through, it is so cool in the spring to 1:07:24.880 --> 1:07:30.040 see lots and lots of pintail, lots of blueing and 1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:30.680 green wing tea. 1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:33.400 I was just gonna say, when I was trained for 1:07:33.440 --> 1:07:37.960 the marathon in May, I was doing a lot of running, 1:07:38.600 --> 1:07:41.320 you know, north of town, out in that farm country here, 1:07:42.080 --> 1:07:45.720 and all those little puddles and seeps and stuff like 1:07:46.240 --> 1:07:49.840 full of nesting teal like cinnamon teal, which you don't. 1:07:49.680 --> 1:07:51.480 Have the cinnamon teal, yes exactly. 1:07:51.560 --> 1:07:54.200 Y it was super cool and just these tiny little spots, 1:07:54.200 --> 1:07:55.000 like you're talking. 1:07:54.960 --> 1:07:56.840 And you get to see behavior that you don't see 1:07:56.920 --> 1:08:00.560 during hunting seas, which is really really neat. So yeah, 1:08:00.760 --> 1:08:03.480 just quick recap. Montana has lost between twenty seven and 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:06.200 thirty three percent of its wetland South Dakota thirty five, 1:08:06.760 --> 1:08:11.880 North Dakota, fifty, Minnesota fifty, Iowa between ninety and ninety 1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:17.360 seven percent. Brutal yep, yep, yep. And you know this 1:08:17.520 --> 1:08:20.880 is one of the things that is like keystone into 1:08:20.960 --> 1:08:25.600 the recovery of waterfowl and the ability for hunters to 1:08:25.640 --> 1:08:28.400 get back out in the field. Yeah, if you want 1:08:28.400 --> 1:08:32.160 to go back to the economics argument of hunting, you know, 1:08:32.560 --> 1:08:34.679 it's like one of the reasons that we got into 1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:42.080 this pit is developing nesting and resting habitat along the 1:08:42.120 --> 1:08:52.679 migration corridors, not understanding that everything's connected. Pre anti market 1:08:52.760 --> 1:08:57.880 hunting days, there would be state imposed waterfowl restrictions of 1:08:58.680 --> 1:09:03.760 one hundred birds a day, fifty birds a day. And 1:09:04.640 --> 1:09:07.840 you know, eventually we started connecting the dots and we 1:09:07.920 --> 1:09:11.600 came up with programs like this, and this WPA program 1:09:12.080 --> 1:09:16.320 didn't come in until nineteen fifty seven, right, and so 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:19.639 we're not that far removed from getting our act together 1:09:20.720 --> 1:09:24.360 and then something like this comes down the pipe and 1:09:24.400 --> 1:09:27.800 you're like, well, wait a minute. We we just saw 1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:28.879 the good things start. 1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:31.439 To happen, not that far removed from both sides being 1:09:31.479 --> 1:09:34.200 into like fixing things and doing the right thing. For 1:09:34.280 --> 1:09:37.719 a while, it was cool for both sides to do it, 1:09:38.160 --> 1:09:42.439 not necessarily that way. Now you know what, Nate, you 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:48.760 know what else you can shoot around wetlands. 1:09:46.760 --> 1:09:54.520 Peasants, big pheasant guys transition. That was good, so Montana pheasants. 1:09:54.880 --> 1:09:57.760 Before we get into that quick story, I like to 1:09:57.800 --> 1:10:00.880 tell people I'm an adult on set hunter. That's not 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:04.000 totally true. My only hunting experience before the age of 1:10:04.000 --> 1:10:07.160 two twenty two was at Miller Ranch Game and Preserve 1:10:07.520 --> 1:10:10.320 right over the border in Spokane, Washington, which is a 1:10:10.320 --> 1:10:15.080 pheasant stocking operation. I was eleven ish I hadn't hunted before. 1:10:15.160 --> 1:10:17.799 I asked my grandpa, who had if he'd take me hunting, 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:21.080 and that's what we chose to do. And as an 1:10:21.120 --> 1:10:23.519 eleven year old without any hunting background, I really didn't 1:10:23.640 --> 1:10:27.639 understand what was going on. I didn't understand stocking wild 1:10:27.680 --> 1:10:31.400 birds pen raised. But even so it felt a little 1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:34.320 off to me, like I saw the guy drive out 1:10:34.360 --> 1:10:37.559 with birds in his ATV. Sure he told us when 1:10:37.560 --> 1:10:39.840 we were getting close to birds. We did get to 1:10:39.880 --> 1:10:42.479 see some cool dog work and we did end up 1:10:42.520 --> 1:10:45.240 shooting some of those birds, but it just it felt 1:10:45.240 --> 1:10:47.080 weird as an eleven year old, But I was with 1:10:47.120 --> 1:10:48.680 my grandpa and I didn't really know what's going on, 1:10:48.720 --> 1:10:52.240 so didn't say anything. But I hate to admit it, 1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:54.160 we didn't even end up eating those birds. 1:10:54.200 --> 1:10:55.080 I don't know what happened to him. 1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:58.000 I think they got eaten by some freezer somewhere. And 1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:00.679 after that whole experience, it took me eleven more years 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:03.640 to try hunting again. So it's fair to say this 1:11:03.680 --> 1:11:07.120 didn't exactly light my fire, which is why an article 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:10.080 by Jordan Hansen at the Daily Montana caught my eye 1:11:10.360 --> 1:11:14.519 as Montana FWP seeks permission to increase pheasant stocking by 1:11:14.560 --> 1:11:17.519 over four hundred percent, all in the name of young 1:11:17.600 --> 1:11:22.280 hunter recruitment. So brief history on pheasant stocking in Montana. 1:11:22.360 --> 1:11:25.880 In nineteen thirty, the Warm Springs Pheasant Farm opens and 1:11:25.920 --> 1:11:29.840 that's over near Deer Lodge here here in southeast or sorry, 1:11:29.880 --> 1:11:34.520 southwest Montana, and the intent was specifically to bolster pheasant populations. 1:11:34.720 --> 1:11:36.200 I don't know what was going on at the time. 1:11:36.360 --> 1:11:39.000 The information is not very clear, but. 1:11:38.920 --> 1:11:42.600 That's back when they thought stocking would gotcha, and you 1:11:42.600 --> 1:11:46.480 know they quickly learned that it doesn't help wild populations. 1:11:46.600 --> 1:11:51.040 Well, there has to be an overlap of management, right, 1:11:51.160 --> 1:11:54.000 There's got to be predator management, there's got to be 1:11:54.200 --> 1:12:00.320 habitat management and a stocking program in order for those 1:12:00.360 --> 1:12:04.080 birds to have enough time to adapt and even then 1:12:04.240 --> 1:12:06.880 the mortality rate is like staggeringly high. 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:10.160 Oh we'll get into it, yes please, And so at 1:12:10.160 --> 1:12:13.200 its peak that operation, again which was the intent was 1:12:13.640 --> 1:12:18.840 population stocking, was fifteen thousand birds annually. So that runs 1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:20.920 for fifty two years. And although we might have learned 1:12:20.920 --> 1:12:22.680 the lesson quickly, it took them fifty two years to 1:12:22.720 --> 1:12:26.519 turn it off. That pheasant farm closes, which was it 1:12:26.560 --> 1:12:29.320 released about a total of four hundred and fifty thousand 1:12:29.400 --> 1:12:31.360 birds over the fifty year life, which again is about 1:12:31.400 --> 1:12:34.599 fifty two or fifteen thousand annually, and it was cited 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:38.679 to be too expensive, very inefficient, and that FWP themselves 1:12:38.720 --> 1:12:41.720 found that habitat improvement was a far better use of 1:12:41.760 --> 1:12:46.120 funds for some stuff we're going to go into. Nineteen 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:50.000 eighty seven, they codify the habitat improvement in the Upland 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:54.760 Bird Game Enhancement Program, which we'll call UGBIP, which is 1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:58.679 one point five million dollars specifically for habitat for Upland birds, 1:12:59.320 --> 1:13:01.960 and that's through cost share projects where you have a 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:05.720 rancher plant, a shelter belt, or habitat leases and a 1:13:05.760 --> 1:13:10.360 few other a few other habitat improvement options. If you 1:13:10.360 --> 1:13:14.240 guys know anything more about those habitat improvements, that'd be great. 1:13:14.240 --> 1:13:16.600 But that's all I found, as like quoted by f 1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:17.719 WP is yeah. 1:13:17.560 --> 1:13:22.360 And then I mean, then there's some federal's that's where 1:13:22.360 --> 1:13:27.680 your hip comes in just now under NRCS habitat improvement projects. 1:13:28.320 --> 1:13:31.479 So fast forward to twenty twenty one, and we're going 1:13:31.560 --> 1:13:34.040 to take a quick detour to the commercial or I 1:13:34.080 --> 1:13:35.920 shouldn't say commercial, the prison system. 1:13:35.960 --> 1:13:41.360 I guess we could lump in CRP two yep, which 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:43.120 is more of a resting thing but does provide a 1:13:43.160 --> 1:13:43.759 lot of habitat. 1:13:43.840 --> 1:13:46.840 Go ahead, sorry, but fast forward twenty twenty one and 1:13:46.880 --> 1:13:50.200 we'll take a detour to the prisons. And that year 1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:55.200 a thirty year commercial contract with dairy Gold ends. Basically 1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:58.880 Costco stopped buying prison milk, if you want to call 1:13:58.880 --> 1:14:03.360 it that. But the Deer Lodge Penitentiary had a large 1:14:03.439 --> 1:14:07.000 dairy herd that they used for that. Inmates ran and 1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:09.360 they created a bunch of milk, and then dairy Gold 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:12.040 bought that and then sold it to Costco. But the 1:14:12.200 --> 1:14:15.519 cancelation of that resulted in a one million budget deficit 1:14:15.720 --> 1:14:20.040 for the prison system. Why is that important? You ask, Well, 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:24.240 That same year, right after that cancelation, the Montana legislature 1:14:24.280 --> 1:14:27.960 passes House Bill six three seven, which authorizes funny enough 1:14:28.120 --> 1:14:31.200 one million dollars annually for farm raised pheasants with the 1:14:31.240 --> 1:14:34.679 stated goal of young hunter recruitment. Those farm raised pheasants 1:14:35.000 --> 1:14:38.320 would be raised by the same inmates that were just 1:14:38.479 --> 1:14:44.440 milking cows for dairy gold. The specifics of that legislation 1:14:44.640 --> 1:14:46.960 is that half the licensed dollars, or half of that 1:14:47.000 --> 1:14:49.719 one million dollars, would be license dollars and half would 1:14:49.720 --> 1:14:53.080 be matching Pittman Robertson funds, which was made eligible by 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:57.759 the twenty nineteen R three expansion to Pittman Robertson. Those 1:14:58.040 --> 1:15:01.280 pheasants that are raised would be planted primarily before the 1:15:01.280 --> 1:15:05.240 youth opener and the only they were only allowed to 1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:09.000 release on state land, no federal or private. Do you 1:15:09.000 --> 1:15:11.600 guys have any experience do that youth season in the 1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:12.320 stock pheasants? 1:15:12.400 --> 1:15:14.439 Not with the youth season, but I feel like I've 1:15:14.479 --> 1:15:17.200 definitely run into some of those stock birds, some like 1:15:17.280 --> 1:15:18.640 fishing actors. 1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:20.840 Yeah, that's why I've heard. What's that like, Phil? 1:15:21.000 --> 1:15:22.200 They run under your tires. 1:15:23.320 --> 1:15:27.439 Phil had an amazing shot on a stocked bird. He 1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:27.960 really did. 1:15:28.080 --> 1:15:31.599 Yeah, he did it take us back. Oh. 1:15:31.960 --> 1:15:33.080 I think I told you when I was at your 1:15:33.080 --> 1:15:34.479 house the other day, Randall, that like, I haven't gun 1:15:34.560 --> 1:15:36.080 hunting a lot, but most of it's been with Cal, 1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:38.519 and my experiences have been wonderful and that was one 1:15:38.560 --> 1:15:40.759 of them. Yeah, I don't really have a lot of memories. 1:15:40.760 --> 1:15:43.720 I'm glad Cal remembers it because I I felt good 1:15:43.760 --> 1:15:46.759 about the shot, So it was it was a great shot, 1:15:48.200 --> 1:15:50.360 the second time I had shot a shotgun in my life. 1:15:50.520 --> 1:15:53.760 But I mean that is right there, second time he 1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:57.479 shot a shotgun in his life. Got to see some 1:15:57.479 --> 1:16:02.559 some great dog work. The area that we were in 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:05.439 has like really wonderful habitat. 1:16:05.160 --> 1:16:07.360 And clearly it lit a fire under your film. 1:16:07.520 --> 1:16:10.400 Yeah, it really really activated a hunter back there. 1:16:12.200 --> 1:16:14.559 And you know, I got to go home with with 1:16:14.600 --> 1:16:20.080 some pheasants. We we helped clean them and and get 1:16:20.120 --> 1:16:24.520 them ready to roll and through some some recipe suggestions 1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:27.559 out of them. And I think that really is like 1:16:28.320 --> 1:16:30.439 the R three argument. 1:16:30.560 --> 1:16:36.320 That's the R three argument. But I would argue the 1:16:36.360 --> 1:16:38.080 pheasant was only a small. 1:16:37.800 --> 1:16:39.880 Part of that. You were the larger part. 1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:41.000 Yeah, you know. 1:16:42.240 --> 1:16:48.040 Yeah, So here's the the Idaho runs this in a 1:16:48.200 --> 1:16:50.800 in a different way where it's like the hunter has 1:16:50.840 --> 1:16:55.160 the choice to opt in, and it's basically a state 1:16:55.320 --> 1:16:59.680 match for outside funding to run this R three program 1:17:00.120 --> 1:17:03.560 where these are the areas the WMAs where're going to 1:17:03.640 --> 1:17:07.000 release birds and if you want to hunt pheasants here, 1:17:07.560 --> 1:17:11.240 you have to buy this stamp YEP and they're I 1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:12.840 love the way that they put it because they will 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:16.000 often say like this programs for young kids and old 1:17:16.040 --> 1:17:19.639 dogs or old dogs and young kids type of thing, 1:17:21.080 --> 1:17:25.960 And I think that's a better way of doing it 1:17:26.960 --> 1:17:31.080 because you also, as we covered in the wetland Conservation easements, 1:17:31.840 --> 1:17:37.200 you get all these other benefits from good habitat, right 1:17:37.280 --> 1:17:39.160 that aren't going to disappear. 1:17:39.760 --> 1:17:43.559 Then let's get to that and circle back to so 1:17:43.560 --> 1:17:44.519 so Nate can finish up this. 1:17:44.600 --> 1:17:47.640 Yeah, we'll finish up the history here. So that that 1:17:47.680 --> 1:17:50.679 was in twenty twenty one when they authorized that. Concurrent 1:17:50.720 --> 1:17:54.120 to this UGGBEP, the Habitat program is still running, but 1:17:54.200 --> 1:17:57.760 in twenty twenty three, f WP themselves asked to eliminate 1:17:57.800 --> 1:18:01.799 a provision that five percent of UGBEP funds were held 1:18:01.920 --> 1:18:05.800 for private land stocking of pen raised birds, mainly because 1:18:05.800 --> 1:18:08.280 there was no interest from landowners in stocking those pen 1:18:08.360 --> 1:18:11.080 raised birds. So it's like it's kind of you they're 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:12.680 talking about of both sides of their mouth right now, 1:18:12.720 --> 1:18:18.720 because ultimately what the request is is to increase the 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:24.120 the stocking locations from just state land to federal and private. 1:18:24.200 --> 1:18:26.120 And increasing the number of words. 1:18:26.160 --> 1:18:28.960 See that's that's what's interesting is in twenty twenty one, 1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:31.800 so twenty twenty one to twenty twenty five, there is 1:18:31.840 --> 1:18:34.400 about two point five million dollars that go into the program. 1:18:34.479 --> 1:18:37.240 So instead of that one million per year that's authorized, 1:18:37.439 --> 1:18:40.120 only about five hundred thousand, or half of the allocated 1:18:40.160 --> 1:18:43.799 funds went into the program. That resulted in ten thousand 1:18:43.840 --> 1:18:47.360 pen raised birds being released per year. And so the 1:18:47.800 --> 1:18:50.439 question that they're kind of raising through this is we're 1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:53.120 not limited by the number of pheasants that we can produce. 1:18:53.120 --> 1:18:56.160 We're not limited by the dollar amount at this point, 1:18:56.240 --> 1:18:58.160 we're limited by the amount of the land that we 1:18:58.200 --> 1:19:00.240 can put it on. And so we're then we're now 1:19:00.240 --> 1:19:02.400 we're asking to go out there and put it on 1:19:02.920 --> 1:19:07.360 private and federal land so that we can fill ostensibly 1:19:07.600 --> 1:19:10.400 to have more hunter recruitment, but really what it seems 1:19:10.439 --> 1:19:12.559 to be like, is to fill that entire one million 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:14.599 dollar budget shortfall that the prison has. 1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:16.559 Sure, and it ain't hard to do. 1:19:16.880 --> 1:19:21.160 I'm no mathematician, but five hundred k budget and you 1:19:21.280 --> 1:19:24.920 kick out ten thousand pen raised birds, that's fifty bucks 1:19:24.920 --> 1:19:25.160 a bird. 1:19:25.200 --> 1:19:28.200 Fifty bucks a bird, which we'll talk about. So I 1:19:28.640 --> 1:19:30.439 want to give them benefit of doubt. And I called 1:19:30.520 --> 1:19:34.600 FWP Greg Lemon over. There is great And what he 1:19:34.640 --> 1:19:37.960 clarified is this isn't a request for additional money, and 1:19:38.000 --> 1:19:41.320 it's been reported on is we're requesting an increase from 1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:44.800 ten thousand to fifty thousand birds. That's not actually what's 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:47.559 the changes. The change is where those birds can go. 1:19:48.080 --> 1:19:49.960 And so I asked them, is there going to be 1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:51.759 some sort of quid pro quill where if we put 1:19:52.040 --> 1:19:55.559 state funded birds on private land, is that can result 1:19:55.560 --> 1:19:57.719 in more access? Because that sounds like a great deal 1:19:57.800 --> 1:20:01.920 for me, at least a silver lining. And he said 1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:04.400 that is the intent, but they're not in conversations with 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.160 any specific landowners at this point. 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:08.000 Not a great track record today. 1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:11.599 What about stocking those suckers on federal land? 1:20:11.720 --> 1:20:12.240 Federal land? 1:20:12.240 --> 1:20:14.479 He didn't adjust specifically, He just said that's part of 1:20:14.520 --> 1:20:17.880 the request, but it I then called a few senators 1:20:17.880 --> 1:20:19.920 who had written a local or state senators who had 1:20:19.960 --> 1:20:22.639 written a letter against this, and they just find it 1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:25.719 unlikely that the four point five million acres of state 1:20:25.760 --> 1:20:29.920 grassland we have is not suitable enough for even fifty 1:20:29.960 --> 1:20:30.880 thousand pheasants. 1:20:31.280 --> 1:20:32.439 It's like, what, why. 1:20:32.280 --> 1:20:34.639 Do we need to go get more land? Like what's 1:20:34.720 --> 1:20:37.000 going on here? And that's an open question. I don't 1:20:37.000 --> 1:20:40.840 know what the decision is or the decision making process, Okay. 1:20:40.960 --> 1:20:44.679 I mean timing here is not great. With like drought 1:20:44.680 --> 1:20:48.240 conditions across the West, We're probably going to see open 1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:51.680 grazing on our state WMAs again this year, like reducing 1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:56.320 that habitat. That's if if we don't get more more 1:20:56.400 --> 1:20:57.879 rain here in August. 1:20:58.120 --> 1:21:03.000 There's that And is there evidence that this results in 1:21:03.640 --> 1:21:04.160 youth hunting? 1:21:04.240 --> 1:21:07.519 Yep, So that's what I asked the FWP spokesman. I said, well, 1:21:07.520 --> 1:21:10.240 if this is a whole you know, youth hunter recruitment, 1:21:10.439 --> 1:21:12.479 how are we measuring that? Are there stats that have 1:21:12.600 --> 1:21:15.479 brought have borne this out? Is there a great hunter recruitment? 1:21:15.840 --> 1:21:19.479 And he said that they're they're diligently trying to get 1:21:19.520 --> 1:21:22.080 better stats. But there's not a vehicle in places. 1:21:22.160 --> 1:21:27.000 I mean since that twenty nineteen and the everybody was 1:21:27.040 --> 1:21:29.360 screaming about R three, R three, R three are three 1:21:29.680 --> 1:21:31.840 R three And obviously there's a lot of people who 1:21:31.880 --> 1:21:36.160 scream about AR three today. But it is a failure. 1:21:37.800 --> 1:21:42.760 It just is a failure. Like R three is just 1:21:42.960 --> 1:21:47.120 not as it is, as like a federal driven program 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:52.240 to the states is just not the thing that is 1:21:52.520 --> 1:21:58.800 producing more hunters having this type of opportunity. I know 1:21:58.920 --> 1:22:01.439 several people Ronnie Bank being won, He's like, if it 1:22:01.479 --> 1:22:03.760 weren't for pen raise pheasants, I wouldn't be a bird hunt. 1:22:03.920 --> 1:22:05.479 I mean that's the way it was when I was 1:22:05.680 --> 1:22:10.120 growing up in Pennsylvania. But you can you can say 1:22:10.120 --> 1:22:13.920 that all you want. He didn't grow up in Montana. 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:17.280 Montana has wild birds, and they got quite a few 1:22:17.280 --> 1:22:17.679 of them. 1:22:17.680 --> 1:22:20.000 Okay, so here's the wild bird argument, right, and this 1:22:20.080 --> 1:22:26.200 is this is South Dakota, who is like, yeah a pinnacle. Yeah. 1:22:26.240 --> 1:22:30.800 And if South like South Dakota would be like the 1:22:30.800 --> 1:22:38.639 most aggressive lover at the bar because they solicit hunters like. 1:22:38.680 --> 1:22:40.080 No other state I've ever seen. 1:22:42.280 --> 1:22:47.120 Their argument to releasing pen raise birds is after that 1:22:47.200 --> 1:22:52.240 first week of the season. Most people, if they're having 1:22:52.280 --> 1:22:55.400 success out there, they're knocking down pen raise birds and 1:22:55.439 --> 1:22:58.000 it takes the pressure off of those wild birds that 1:22:58.080 --> 1:23:02.160 are going to winter over and have successful broods. And 1:23:02.479 --> 1:23:07.960 that's why they have their program of like supplementation, right, 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:13.400 and so they you know, you have those preserved licenses 1:23:13.439 --> 1:23:17.800 out there where the private landowners are releasing tons and 1:23:17.840 --> 1:23:20.600 tons of birds, and that's what the idea is, like, 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:25.120 there's tons of suitable habitat, and so the birds they're 1:23:25.240 --> 1:23:27.320 they're planning on the pen raise birds to die. 1:23:28.200 --> 1:23:31.840 Yeah, it's like we know they're gonna get killed, so 1:23:32.360 --> 1:23:33.840 we're protecting. 1:23:33.280 --> 1:23:34.639 The wild birds kind of thing. 1:23:34.640 --> 1:23:36.360 When you go out with a bunch of new hunters 1:23:36.400 --> 1:23:38.719 and they slam their truck doors and you're watching birds 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:41.920 fly out the end, you're like, well, there go the 1:23:42.240 --> 1:23:45.040 wild birds. Yeah, and the ones that. 1:23:44.920 --> 1:23:48.880 Went right there. I kind of look at. 1:23:48.760 --> 1:23:53.360 It, you know, I obviously there's there's some decent arguments 1:23:53.360 --> 1:23:55.599 for both sides, but I kind of in Montana, I 1:23:55.640 --> 1:24:00.440 look at it the way I look at how mya 1:24:00.520 --> 1:24:05.679 decided to manage wild trout. So fifty odd years ago, 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:10.639 Montana made the decision that if there's an established wild 1:24:10.760 --> 1:24:15.880 trout population in a river or a stream, We're not 1:24:15.920 --> 1:24:19.400 going to stalk. There's no reason to stock trout in 1:24:19.439 --> 1:24:23.360 those streams, right Like, you have a self sustaining wild population, 1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:25.760 leave it alone, let its do its thing. 1:24:26.000 --> 1:24:27.519 Like we may stock like. 1:24:27.960 --> 1:24:30.920 Lakes for put and take fisheries, but for wild trout 1:24:30.960 --> 1:24:34.479 populations that are self sustaining, leave them alone. 1:24:35.000 --> 1:24:37.360 That's kind of where I'm at with this pheasant thing, 1:24:37.680 --> 1:24:38.000 you know. 1:24:38.200 --> 1:24:40.680 With the exception of improving habitat. 1:24:40.400 --> 1:24:43.679 Well, that's like, yeah, And I think I think generally 1:24:43.720 --> 1:24:46.479 like I'm not anti stocking. I just I think that 1:24:46.560 --> 1:24:49.280 this program could use some tweaking when you get into 1:24:49.280 --> 1:24:52.639 the the issues with pheasant stocking kind of across the board, 1:24:52.680 --> 1:24:56.320 but also here specifically, some stats from pheasants forever is 1:24:56.360 --> 1:24:59.519 that forty percent die within a week, seventy five percent 1:24:59.600 --> 1:25:01.679 die with an a month, and ninety five percent die 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:03.960 before the spring. And so you you know, your your 1:25:03.960 --> 1:25:07.120 comments about shooting the pen raise birds, those those stand. 1:25:07.520 --> 1:25:08.960 But then when you get in the deal for the 1:25:09.000 --> 1:25:14.519 actual taxpayer and the tradeoff versus habitat improvement, we are paying, 1:25:14.960 --> 1:25:18.280 like the between Pittman and Robertson and License sales fifty 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:22.120 dollars a pheasant. Five hundred thousand dollars a year at 1:25:22.439 --> 1:25:25.200 ten thousand pheasants is fifty dollars a pheasant. 1:25:25.240 --> 1:25:27.759 I you can go buy like a fifteen pound organic 1:25:27.800 --> 1:25:29.120 turkey for fifty bucks. 1:25:29.200 --> 1:25:31.360 You can go to a pheasant farm. You can go 1:25:31.400 --> 1:25:33.839 to Miller ranch and buy one for forty five bucks 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:34.840 if you want. 1:25:35.280 --> 1:25:37.800 And I do there there was there's one really good 1:25:37.800 --> 1:25:40.640 study out there, and that's where they talk about like, 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:44.080 here's what happens if you just stock pheasants. Here's what 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:47.040 happens if you stock pheasants and do like a heavy 1:25:47.040 --> 1:25:51.960 predator management program. Here's what happens if you do the 1:25:52.000 --> 1:25:57.479 full management you know. And I, yeah, I think there's 1:25:57.479 --> 1:26:00.400 a significant die off of birds regardles us in the 1:26:00.400 --> 1:26:01.679 first thirty six hours. 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:05.080 But isn't it also fair to say that if you've 1:26:05.120 --> 1:26:12.200 got good habitat, like you're already good habitat already in 1:26:12.240 --> 1:26:17.360 some ways mitigates the impact of predators on wild besant populations. 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:20.280 Yes, right, yep, it's kind of doing some of the 1:26:20.320 --> 1:26:21.800 predator management work for you. 1:26:22.000 --> 1:26:26.040 Yep. Yeah, And you know I've joked many many times, right, 1:26:26.080 --> 1:26:30.760 if if a Montana. Pheasant knew about South Dakota or 1:26:30.880 --> 1:26:35.320 Kansas Iowa state. Yeah, they just wouldn't be here, ye, 1:26:35.720 --> 1:26:41.080 because the like Kansas. What Kansas does on on their 1:26:44.000 --> 1:26:48.120 WMA properties, I can't remember what their acronym is is unreal. 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:53.240 There's there's holdover food crops that they plant. There's all 1:26:53.280 --> 1:26:55.040 sorts of stuff and it is gorgeous. 1:26:55.760 --> 1:26:59.760 To be fair, there are some wildlife management areas in 1:26:59.800 --> 1:27:03.240 my Tanna and fishing access sites in Montana where there's 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:04.560 fantastic habitat. 1:27:04.600 --> 1:27:07.559 Yeah, and they're pumping in the cash. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1:27:07.680 --> 1:27:11.120 but we could certainly see a lot more of it 1:27:11.160 --> 1:27:13.120 because there's there's some places. 1:27:13.560 --> 1:27:14.800 Yeah. And that's the thing. 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:17.840 It's like, do you want to play the instant gratification 1:27:18.080 --> 1:27:21.120 game with that what is it two point five million? 1:27:22.000 --> 1:27:23.200 Yeah, I mean it's one million a year? 1:27:23.320 --> 1:27:26.840 One okay, the instant gratification game with one million? Or 1:27:26.880 --> 1:27:28.599 do you want to play the long game with that 1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:32.960 one million and do what cal suggests and invest in habitat? 1:27:33.120 --> 1:27:33.400 Yep? 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:36.120 And I think that's just just to hit the kind 1:27:36.120 --> 1:27:37.720 of the pro to give it a fair shake, the 1:27:37.760 --> 1:27:41.920 pro stockers, the youth hunter activation, I mean just in 1:27:41.960 --> 1:27:43.840 the room. You know we had we had Phil, not 1:27:44.200 --> 1:27:47.360 a youth hunter, but shot a pheasant that's probably stocked. 1:27:47.800 --> 1:27:50.760 The inmate skills program. That's not pointless. You know, that's 1:27:50.760 --> 1:27:54.040 a valuable thing that can that can increase quality of 1:27:54.080 --> 1:27:57.680 life for people there is a prison budget deficit and 1:27:57.720 --> 1:27:59.559 feeling that is a good thing. I think you should 1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:01.040 go to the g All Fund and ask for it 1:28:01.080 --> 1:28:04.240 that way. But this is a method. And then also 1:28:04.400 --> 1:28:07.600 like those that farm is compliant with all of USDA's 1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:12.800 health health like the USDA's Natural Poultry Improvement Plan. They 1:28:12.960 --> 1:28:15.640 they have very strict testing, they have very strict protocols, 1:28:15.760 --> 1:28:17.800 they go above and beyond, and so there is a 1:28:17.800 --> 1:28:20.639 disease risk for sure, but they're doing what they can 1:28:20.680 --> 1:28:22.400 to mitigate it. And so it's not like this is 1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:25.599 just a flippant program where if they're going to release 1:28:25.640 --> 1:28:30.679 bird flu into the local pheasant population. I think we've 1:28:30.720 --> 1:28:32.960 kind of talked about the anti but you know, habitat 1:28:33.040 --> 1:28:35.960 improvement instead of I'm not sure it's a zero sum game, 1:28:36.360 --> 1:28:38.599 but if I could put those million dollars that are 1:28:38.640 --> 1:28:42.160 currently going towards stocking into habitat, I think every hunter 1:28:42.240 --> 1:28:43.719 would take that every day of the week. 1:28:44.760 --> 1:28:51.360 Yeah, because it's like the byproduct is like big white tails, 1:28:51.640 --> 1:28:54.720 big mule deer. Sure, sure, it's not just. 1:28:56.280 --> 1:29:00.559 Yeah, and you can keep cranking out you can keep 1:29:00.600 --> 1:29:03.240 cranking out stocked pheasants as long as you want and 1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:08.040 spending that money, but like you can't keep cranking out 1:29:08.080 --> 1:29:11.880 good habitat right, Like there's only so much land out there, 1:29:12.600 --> 1:29:15.920 so you know, you can pay for stock pheasants or 1:29:15.920 --> 1:29:18.880 you can pay for land that'll be around for the 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:19.639 next generation. 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:21.080 It's kind of the way I look at it. 1:29:21.280 --> 1:29:25.800 Yeah, And I think ultimately there's there's like decent bones here. 1:29:25.840 --> 1:29:27.840 I think the intent could be good And to your 1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:30.800 comment about Idaho CaAl that that might be a good 1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:32.800 tweak to this program. I just think as it's being 1:29:32.800 --> 1:29:35.040 currently executed, it's not very well thought out. 1:29:36.240 --> 1:29:37.519 But the cool. 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:39.439 Thing was just this is kind of my first experience 1:29:39.520 --> 1:29:41.800 with like local government and calling my you know, you're 1:29:41.800 --> 1:29:46.160 always telling people to call your local senator. And Pat Flowers, 1:29:46.280 --> 1:29:50.080 my my represent or, my senator here in Belgrade, had 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:51.080 his phone number online. 1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:51.599 I texted him. 1:29:51.600 --> 1:29:53.080 He called me right back and gave me his two 1:29:53.080 --> 1:29:56.560 cents on it. Greg Lemon at FWP, he called me 1:29:56.680 --> 1:29:59.120 right back and gave me their their take on it, 1:29:59.160 --> 1:30:01.120 and it was super helpful. So go do the same 1:30:01.160 --> 1:30:04.720 thing in this case. Public comments open July first, August nineteenth, 1:30:04.840 --> 1:30:05.479 so have at it. 1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:11.559 Heck, yeah, nice work, Nate, Randall. You're gonna be hosted 1:30:11.640 --> 1:30:14.800 next week. Yes, Steve's gonna be out for a couple 1:30:14.840 --> 1:30:15.280 more weeks. 1:30:15.320 --> 1:30:18.880 You're hosting, Yes, I am hosting the news show next week. 1:30:21.360 --> 1:30:22.400 I think we have you. 1:30:22.439 --> 1:30:25.519 Got any juicy like Teasershow. 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:27.000 I haven't given any thought to what I'm gonna do? 1:30:27.080 --> 1:30:29.479 Actually, and send Randall an idea for what we. 1:30:29.600 --> 1:30:34.000 Yeah, yeah, no, that's coming up. Very exciting, very exciting. 1:30:34.520 --> 1:30:37.639 I wish I were up where Steve is right now, 1:30:37.680 --> 1:30:41.200 having the adventure of a lifetime. But we must carry 1:30:41.240 --> 1:30:44.400 on in his absence, and so rest assured that we'll 1:30:44.400 --> 1:30:48.559 do our level best to give you once again another 1:30:48.600 --> 1:30:49.320 great news show. 1:30:49.520 --> 1:30:49.680 Hey. 1:30:49.720 --> 1:30:52.880 Yeah, and Steve will be making an appearance, correct, Nate, 1:30:52.920 --> 1:30:58.559 He's gonna He's gonna cover the Grizzly management thing that's 1:30:58.600 --> 1:31:02.240 going on where the fans would like to hand over 1:31:02.439 --> 1:31:05.599 management of Grizzlies to the States. Steve is gonna weigh 1:31:05.600 --> 1:31:08.840 in on that via video for our next show, so 1:31:09.080 --> 1:31:09.720 tune in for that. 1:31:10.320 --> 1:31:12.240 Thanks a lot, guys, Nice job, Brod.