Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys
Speaker 1: on your war room for insider news and draft analysis
Speaker 1: from deep within the confines at Cowboys Headquarters at Valley Rant.
Speaker 1: The Dallas Cowboys Select by Rand Joe and now your
Speaker 1: hosts Dane Brugler, David Hellman and Brian brought us. Well,
Speaker 1: it's day two from the Indianapolis Combine two thousand and
Speaker 1: sixteen from Lucas Oil Stadium. I'm Brian brought us along
Speaker 1: with Dame Brugler CBS Sports and Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: David Hellman from Dallas Cowboys dot Com and Dan Turner
Speaker 1: once again joins us on the program. Excited to have everybody.
Speaker 1: Dave you back in the mix. Thanks for letting me back. Brian, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's gonna get Wally. No, you no problem at all. Man.
Speaker 1: You had to do your job for Dallas Cowboys dot Com.
Speaker 1: And I encourage everybody as always who go to Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com and get all that content. I know
Speaker 1: Dave has been writing a lot of things, some stories
Speaker 1: about some of the guys we've seen. We're still trying
Speaker 1: to meander our way to this field behind us here, Yeah, tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, Lineman, we're going today. That just shows
Speaker 1: you old man syndrome right there. I was just conditioned that, Okay,
Speaker 1: they come in, they talk, they go work out, but
Speaker 1: we will have the offensive lineman and the running backs
Speaker 1: working out tomorrow. You get the bench brus today did
Speaker 1: get to be something. Yeah, and we'll talk about that
Speaker 1: because I do want to talk about Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: something to say. Yeah, yeah for you okay, and and
Speaker 1: and yeah the kickers, Yeah, that's something that when you
Speaker 1: got Dan Bailey and I know we're a full service
Speaker 1: show here. Wait, but I thought we wanted to investigate
Speaker 1: and education. Yeahs over the kicker kickers, we're just gonna
Speaker 1: go on. Don't want to Bailey for the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: is a great kicker. I want to talk, but I
Speaker 1: want I do want to get into something because Dane earlier,
Speaker 1: and we'll get into this later, but it's about this
Speaker 1: bench press. And you talk to some scouts. It felt
Speaker 1: like that if you got rid of the bench press,
Speaker 1: that hey, nobody would miss that. So well, we'll have
Speaker 1: some fun with some numbers. I know we've got him
Speaker 1: in front of us. Some guys did lift some guys
Speaker 1: didn't lift. We had some running backs come through today,
Speaker 1: We had some tight ends come through today, but more importantly,
Speaker 1: we had some quarterbacks come through today, with the exception
Speaker 1: of one quarterback. Yeah, he's kind of disappointing. Yeah, pack
Speaker 1: him blew it off. Yeah, Paxton Lynch, my favorite quarterback
Speaker 1: here in the NFL draft who everybody likes to fight
Speaker 1: me on. Just not he didn't decide that he didn't
Speaker 1: want to be part. There's a certain number of guys
Speaker 1: that they do a day. He'll pick back up tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Ezekiel Elliott same thing. We would have got him yesterday,
Speaker 1: but then he didn't go until almost the end of
Speaker 1: the day to day he did. And I want to
Speaker 1: I want to talk about uh, you know, first get
Speaker 1: into the quarter backs today and and I just want
Speaker 1: a thought from each one of you. Um, you know
Speaker 1: it's we're not going to see This is just part
Speaker 1: of it, the interview part. I want to I want
Speaker 1: to know your take. Did did some guys handle it well?
Speaker 1: Were they agitated? Uh? Did anybody stand out from that group? Again,
Speaker 1: we've seen two of the guys and then you know,
Speaker 1: as as far as the first round type guys, you know,
Speaker 1: but we saw some other guys, you know, with Dak
Speaker 1: Prescott and Hackenburg and guys like that. So did anybody stick? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did in one big one. What do you mean
Speaker 1: for the Cardel Jones? Oh you're sorry. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: keep pounding only Yeah, with two hundred fifty seven pounds.
Speaker 1: I'll take his four pounds because I need it, right guy?
Speaker 1: But yeah, the I was gonna talk about it. You
Speaker 1: just just the thoughts of the quarterbacks that went through today.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be about uh, you know
Speaker 1: with with golf, you know, or you know, with what's
Speaker 1: going on there with those first round guys, but just
Speaker 1: talk about what you what you saw today. Well, the
Speaker 1: first guy saw was Christian Hackenburg and he was seriously impressive.
Speaker 1: Like he was, He's he's the best we've seen so far,
Speaker 1: with the exception of potentially Larry Tunstil yesterday, who I
Speaker 1: thought stole the show. But the first thing which you
Speaker 1: notice about Hackenburg is just that he looks like Tony Romo.
Speaker 1: He sounds like Tony Romo and even as exactly the
Speaker 1: same mannerisms as Tony Romo, and it's just it's just
Speaker 1: one of those strange things sort of that. It would
Speaker 1: almost be quite an easy transition really for Cowboys fans
Speaker 1: especially to go from someone like Romo to someone like Hackenburg,
Speaker 1: because they speak in the same way, they seem to
Speaker 1: have the same attitude. It's almost like even that little
Speaker 1: smirk which which Tony Romo gives when he talks Hackenburg. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be nice. Well, that's and we'll get into that.
Speaker 1: We'll get in that day stuff. Yeah. I actually I
Speaker 1: just wrote a big, big expose on the quarterbacks that
Speaker 1: talked today. I encourage you to read it. Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: do Um. I thought the two all right, I mean
Speaker 1: I really wanted Lynch to talk because that's the trio
Speaker 1: of first round guys. But but the two the two
Speaker 1: first round dudes that did talk, Wins and Goff. I
Speaker 1: thought it was fascinating that. I thought they both did
Speaker 1: really well, and I thought they did it in different
Speaker 1: ways like Winz and we saw Wins at the Senior Bowls,
Speaker 1: so he kind of knew what to um. He's very
Speaker 1: robotics maybe not the right word, but he's just he
Speaker 1: knows how to do this already, like he's polished. He
Speaker 1: knows how to give the answer. One thing that I
Speaker 1: always notice is anytime he was asked for something specific,
Speaker 1: he found a way to generalize it. Uh. Somebody asked
Speaker 1: him about working with the Cowboys coaching staff and he
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I enjoy working with the Cowboys coaching staff,
Speaker 1: but I also talked to the Jaguars and these guys
Speaker 1: and these guys are you know, and he just knows
Speaker 1: he knows how to play that game exactly. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then John Maschodot, the Dallas Want of News, I thought,
Speaker 1: made a great observation that he reminded him a lot
Speaker 1: of Jason Garrett. I could. I can see it completely
Speaker 1: and it's not just the hair. Um. Then you have
Speaker 1: Jared Goff who and this this sounds like a lazy
Speaker 1: comparison because they both went to cow But he reminded
Speaker 1: me of Aaron Rodgers, Like he was very cool and
Speaker 1: laid back, and he was a little cocky when when
Speaker 1: people were asking him about his fumble problem, he was like,
Speaker 1: well how many did I have this year for? Okay,
Speaker 1: well maybe you should shut up. I mean that's basically
Speaker 1: what he said. And I just, you know, cocky, but
Speaker 1: not I mean justifiably, I would say, I don't think
Speaker 1: he said anything that he couldn't back up, you know,
Speaker 1: he kind of he said he thought the stuff about
Speaker 1: his small hands was stupid, um nine inches exactly. And
Speaker 1: you know, Aaron Rodgers, he's arguably the best quarterback in
Speaker 1: the NFL, but he's not afraid of saying something cocky
Speaker 1: or controversial or speaking his mind. Uh. And so I
Speaker 1: thought that that's what that reminded me a lot of.
Speaker 1: So you got both of these guys. I thought they
Speaker 1: did excellent in their interviews, but they handled it in
Speaker 1: very different ways. Dane Burglar and I think the whole
Speaker 1: hand sized thing is interesting because listen, hand size matters.
Speaker 1: I mean, we can say, oh, you know, just watch
Speaker 1: the tape and that's all. You know, hand size doesn't
Speaker 1: matter when you talk about a team like Cleveland possibly
Speaker 1: looking at you at a number two pick. So how
Speaker 1: much you know, wait, will the Browns put in nine
Speaker 1: in chants which you know we said it yesterday, the
Speaker 1: threshold for quarterbacks nine an eighth, nine and a quarter
Speaker 1: that's you know, kind of where you want, you know,
Speaker 1: the bare bones what you want. If you're below that,
Speaker 1: then you're in trouble. And you just look at past examples,
Speaker 1: you know, guys like Ryan Tannehill he was at nine.
Speaker 1: Kaepernick was nine, an eighth, and so can Goff you know,
Speaker 1: look past the or you know, can he prove to
Speaker 1: these guys that hand size is not going to be
Speaker 1: a factor for him and will he be you know,
Speaker 1: still be potentially the top quarterback for the Browns. The
Speaker 1: top quarterback on your board last year was Teddy Bridgewater
Speaker 1: if I'm correct, two years ago, right, two years ago? Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: Teddy Bridgewater Jamis last year, Jameis Slash Okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Both had some hand size. Okay two years ago though,
Speaker 1: But now we see Teddy Bridgewater play double gloves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so you know that was some of the stuff
Speaker 1: that we heard from Britain out any shot that we see,
Speaker 1: you know, even the Super Bowl winning quarterback this year
Speaker 1: playing with a glove on, you know. I mean Bridgewater
Speaker 1: did that in college too, so he was used to it.
Speaker 1: You know, That's that's what he was accustomed to. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna see that with with Goff. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's it's just, you know, we talk about puzzle pieces.
Speaker 1: It's just another puzzle piece, uh, you know, in order
Speaker 1: to figure out who this guy is going to be
Speaker 1: at the next level, is not going to make or
Speaker 1: break him as a player, but it's just another puzzle
Speaker 1: piece that we have to kind of figure out how
Speaker 1: it fits and what kind of factor it's going to
Speaker 1: have moving forward. Cocky or irritated today, I don't. I didn't.
Speaker 1: And it was a little contentious there when we were
Speaker 1: talking about the fumbles in the hand side. Oh he
Speaker 1: went after that reporter, Yeah, and Jeff Kavanaugh from the
Speaker 1: Draft show kind of defense, Yeah, that the guy didn't
Speaker 1: have the answer, and Kavanaugh screams out he had four
Speaker 1: fumbles this year. And the guy, you know, and and
Speaker 1: and you could see Golf kind of gave Jeff like
Speaker 1: a thanks, look, you know, kind of like a yeah,
Speaker 1: you're with me. I don't think that it ever really
Speaker 1: got really testy. And and here's my approof is the
Speaker 1: same guy that asked about the fumbles that originally irritated
Speaker 1: him came back and said, well, you're one in eleven
Speaker 1: year where you had all these fumbles as a freshman
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, how did that help research grow
Speaker 1: from that? Right or whatever? He said? And Goff went right,
Speaker 1: and he was like, absolutely, this is why da da
Speaker 1: da da da da da. And you know, he never
Speaker 1: really seemed overly flustered by anything that happened there. And
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think it was his demeanor the
Speaker 1: whole you know, he was he was just calm and
Speaker 1: kind of nonchalant the whole way through. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: he got up or down over the course of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't actually mind a quarter about being
Speaker 1: a bit cooky, and I think i'd argue that you
Speaker 1: want it, yeah, exactually they need to be sure. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was a bit of a difference. So Knakook came
Speaker 1: on I think just before um just before golf, and
Speaker 1: he had a similar sort of cockiness, but it was
Speaker 1: it was in a different way. It was almost in
Speaker 1: an arrogant sort of boy, as if he was trying
Speaker 1: to build himself up all the time, whereas Jared Goffe
Speaker 1: it was almost as though he was just trying to explain.
Speaker 1: He would basically take take different points and just put
Speaker 1: them down one by one. He wasn't and he'd he'd
Speaker 1: give people proof as well. So like with the fumballs,
Speaker 1: he would say, well, how many fumballs did I have
Speaker 1: in the last year? So I thought he had a
Speaker 1: really good press conference to day, and he's the sort
Speaker 1: of guy who you don't you don't drop him at
Speaker 1: all because of the day. A quarterback there and press
Speaker 1: me was Dak Prescott, And yeah, I think that's what
Speaker 1: you expected. And you know I've said this before and
Speaker 1: I'll say it again. If the Cowboys don't go quarterback
Speaker 1: at four, I think Dak Prescott it makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense in the third or the fourth round for
Speaker 1: this team. He mentioned he met with Cowboys last night
Speaker 1: informally with coach Wilson, and so you know, I think
Speaker 1: it could be a fit. I think with his best
Speaker 1: attributes are his poise, his leadership, the way he carries himself.
Speaker 1: That leadership, I think that's something that will really appeal
Speaker 1: to this team. Is he ready for NFL snaps right
Speaker 1: now as a starter, No, But I think he's a
Speaker 1: guy you can bring in for good value. You have
Speaker 1: to love his resume in the sec um A tremendous
Speaker 1: production and not only production but development. I think you
Speaker 1: know said this before, but he was a thrower in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen as a passer fifteen, I think there's a
Speaker 1: big difference in two thousand fourteens when we heard all
Speaker 1: the Heisman talk. Twenty fifteen was a much better year
Speaker 1: for him, at least on film and from an evaluation standpoint.
Speaker 1: So I think Dak Prescott, we're going to see him
Speaker 1: as possibly linked to the Cowboys. But it makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense. How about his throwing motion though, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then a little bit and you said a passer
Speaker 1: or thrower, but there's some things that you see in
Speaker 1: his throwing motion that a little bit over the top,
Speaker 1: you know that type of Yeah, it's a little bit
Speaker 1: of radic at times. Mechanics start a little bit like
Speaker 1: Cam Newton's if you look at this mechanical Yeah, like
Speaker 1: without ritty, he isn't he isn't two drem fifty pounds.
Speaker 1: So if he can't just scend in the pocket, I
Speaker 1: mean nice, Yeah, he's not small like Cam Newton can
Speaker 1: just deflect guys off and he said he can just
Speaker 1: stand back there, whereas Dak Prescott he has to step
Speaker 1: up in the pocket more very mobile. Ye, yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm yeah, he still has some learning to do.
Speaker 1: But to me, if he can make the same improvement
Speaker 1: from last year to the NFL that he made from
Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen to two thousand and fifteen, there
Speaker 1: might actually be something there, and obviously the development on
Speaker 1: his own just makes me intrigued. I felt like, listening
Speaker 1: to the quarterbacks that spoke today, I felt like that
Speaker 1: he was the most ready, you know, every everybody. It
Speaker 1: seemed like that the other guys came in thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm in for a fight. It's it's almost like watching
Speaker 1: we're in this we're in this election season, and these
Speaker 1: candidates stand up there and they and they seemed like
Speaker 1: people are poking holes in him and they're trying to
Speaker 1: deflect things and pass this off. But I felt like,
Speaker 1: though that that Prescott seemed very comfortable with who he
Speaker 1: was and not having to deflect as much. I would argue,
Speaker 1: and I don't think any prospect or maybe in their
Speaker 1: heart of hearts they're not can admit this. But nobody
Speaker 1: thinks Dak Prescott is a first round pick. The rest
Speaker 1: of these guys, you can find somebody who will argue
Speaker 1: that they will be even Hackenburger Cook, you know they're
Speaker 1: getting You're talking about them potentially being a first round pick.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody thinks that's the case with Dak,
Speaker 1: so I think the pressure on him and the types
Speaker 1: of questions he was getting were probably a lot less uh,
Speaker 1: you know, high profile less scrutiny. Yeah. Uh, what was
Speaker 1: interesting for me with him and Dane alluded to the
Speaker 1: fact that he talked to Wade Wilson last night. What
Speaker 1: did he say that Wade Wilson said that was and
Speaker 1: like my ear, your ears perked out, he said, back up,
Speaker 1: he said, they want you know, they want a quarterback.
Speaker 1: They need a quarterback in this offseason cycle. Uh, he said.
Speaker 1: They talked about the picks they have, like this is
Speaker 1: the range where we're thinking that we could sure, you know,
Speaker 1: fourth rounds and you would come in and be come
Speaker 1: in and be behind Tony Romo. And like, none of
Speaker 1: that is brown Gray, I said that backward. None of
Speaker 1: that is groundbreaking, right information, But it's still very interesting
Speaker 1: when you hear somebody talking about a Cowboys official admitting
Speaker 1: these things and talking about they'll probably say the similar
Speaker 1: thing to other quarterbacks that they meet with and so,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it is interesting. I think the best thing
Speaker 1: you can say about Dak is what Dan Mullen, his
Speaker 1: head coach a Mississippi stay said about him. He called
Speaker 1: him the best player he's ever coached. This is the
Speaker 1: same Dan Mullin that coached him TV Sam Dan Mullin
Speaker 1: that coached Alex Smith at Utah has coached a lot
Speaker 1: of very good players, but he singled out Dak is
Speaker 1: the most impressive that he's ever had the pleasure of coaching.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, I'm sorry. Yeah, Well, I mean Jason Garrett
Speaker 1: loves intangible was in a player as well, and I
Speaker 1: have the feeling because he was an ex quarterback himself.
Speaker 1: He's going to get a big say in who the
Speaker 1: quarterback they picked this year is. And in terms of intangibles,
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott is as good as anyone in this class. Normalnessy,
Speaker 1: he's a lead, that's all right kind of guy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: let me flip this in on you guys then, And
Speaker 1: I know I can create a little argument here before
Speaker 1: we go to break Danny. Sell me on Christian Hackenburg, though,
Speaker 1: sell me on why I should it? Maybe at thirty
Speaker 1: four consider I mean, and I'm going to give you
Speaker 1: an opportunity to rebut they'll look on Dane's face. But
Speaker 1: how about just okay, just a draft, you know, give
Speaker 1: me and I know you'll agree. There's some point you
Speaker 1: were draft. But you make an argument for him if
Speaker 1: you can here in a couple of minutes. I think
Speaker 1: he has the best armed talent in this entire class.
Speaker 1: I mean in terms of just pure throws. If if
Speaker 1: he just stood there tomorrow we're going to see him
Speaker 1: or the day after tomorrow, he'll be throwing out in
Speaker 1: the field. He'll be the best quarterback there in my opinion,
Speaker 1: just in terms of it'd be the best thrower there
Speaker 1: in my opinion. And his flaws are actually quite fixable
Speaker 1: in my opinion. So the um so one of them
Speaker 1: is the offensive line. Obviously he can't have it. He
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with that. But again it
Speaker 1: could be ingrained. So and if it is in grain,
Speaker 1: then this guy's going to bust in the NFL. And
Speaker 1: I accept that. I'll admit if I'm wrong if it does.
Speaker 1: But I mean his his flaws from a technical standpoint
Speaker 1: are he doesn't really align his feet when he throws.
Speaker 1: But Jamis Winston had exactly the same thing last year.
Speaker 1: By week one in the NFL, Jamison had fixed it.
Speaker 1: So this is this is this isn't a fundamental mechanical floor.
Speaker 1: This is something which he can fix in his throwing motion.
Speaker 1: This is something which I don't think it's I don't
Speaker 1: think there's anything any serious underlying issues here as long
Speaker 1: as he can next thing. Because of this offensive line,
Speaker 1: the rory is that he'll start seeing ghosts in the pocket,
Speaker 1: and when quarterbacks start doing that then this then they
Speaker 1: can't play in the NFL. But I'm still willing to
Speaker 1: take a chance in this guy because because to me,
Speaker 1: drafting someone like Christian Hackenburg shows ambition. It shows me.
Speaker 1: It shows me that the Cowboys want a potential franchise quarterback.
Speaker 1: Not obviously someone like Brandon Allen might be a nice pick,
Speaker 1: but his upside is a low quarter is a low
Speaker 1: quarterback one on a team. So where's Christian Hackenburg? He
Speaker 1: has upside? Is he your last franchise potential quarterback? Yeah? Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're going to fight for him if I if
Speaker 1: you can't have one of the three, then this would
Speaker 1: be your your number four guy to go to. In
Speaker 1: all honesty, I might take him over Wentz as well.
Speaker 1: I just don't. I just don't trust when Hart tag
Speaker 1: that's very that's very Dame Burglar. You you you'll line
Speaker 1: up on the other side and get him. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's there is a point in the draft where you know,
Speaker 1: I'm taking a chance on on Christian Hackenburg. But I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm worried he's damaged goods already. You know, I
Speaker 1: really and you you kind of talked about that, like
Speaker 1: you know, that is the possibility. And his tape was
Speaker 1: bad and a lot of a lot of examples, a
Speaker 1: lot of games, and a lot of it had to
Speaker 1: do with the offensive line, a lot of it had
Speaker 1: to do with the coaches and the play calling, but
Speaker 1: a lot of it was on him too. I think
Speaker 1: the game just moves at light speed for him, and
Speaker 1: I just haven't seen signs of it's slowing down. And
Speaker 1: so I really worry about how natural the game comes
Speaker 1: to him, and is he damaged goods already? It? Can
Speaker 1: he show improvement? Will he get better when the game's
Speaker 1: only gonna get faster at the next level. But you know,
Speaker 1: he's absolutely right about the arm talent. I mean, he
Speaker 1: makes throws that most quarterbacks in this draft, or you know,
Speaker 1: most quarterbacks on this planet are physically unable to make,
Speaker 1: and so I think that is appealing. I just think
Speaker 1: Christian Hackenberg will be drafted higher than I would want
Speaker 1: to take a chance on him. I think once you
Speaker 1: get into the fourth round, outside the top one hundred,
Speaker 1: I would maybe think about taking a chance on him,
Speaker 1: depending on my other options. But I think he's gonna
Speaker 1: be long gone. I think he's even be somewhere in
Speaker 1: the top fifty top sixty picks. Thing is, I think
Speaker 1: he has probably a fifty percent chance of busting, and
Speaker 1: so I agree with that, But they're just the fact
Speaker 1: the high percentage for a guy that you want to
Speaker 1: take that high no, but the fact that to me,
Speaker 1: he there's a twenty five thirty percent chance that he
Speaker 1: can be a quality franchise quarterback. I'm taking that chance
Speaker 1: every single time because I want I want a quality
Speaker 1: quarterback on this team. And if he does bust, then
Speaker 1: we draft another one, and then we draft another one.
Speaker 1: And although it may not sound like a good plan,
Speaker 1: but to me, that's that's what I want in this class.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to I don't want any
Speaker 1: of these lower level quarterbacks. I don't want to try
Speaker 1: to develop a backup here. And there's something absolutely to
Speaker 1: what you're saying. I mean, I'm along the same lines
Speaker 1: where you keep drafting quarter I draft a quarterback every year.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a lot. See what you can get.
Speaker 1: You might, you might hit, you might. You're gonna miss
Speaker 1: on a bunch, but you only need to hit on one.
Speaker 1: So I agree there, I just the value. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to take him. If you're the Cowboys, you'd
Speaker 1: have to take him a thirty four. And to me,
Speaker 1: that's just too rich. I couldn't do it, but hey,
Speaker 1: it could pay off if he if he ends up
Speaker 1: hitting well. Bill O'Brien was asked earlier today about Christian
Speaker 1: Hackenburg and does he have starting ability in the National
Speaker 1: Football League, And O'Brien goes, you know, I look, and
Speaker 1: again I'm just starting in on these guys that think
Speaker 1: Christian's a very talented guy. But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: talented quarterbacks in this league. To stand up here in
Speaker 1: answer whether a guy is starting ability, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: very very difficult started quarterback in this league. And he was,
Speaker 1: you know, he was talking about him as a as
Speaker 1: a type of kid, the families, from how he enjoyed
Speaker 1: recruiting him. You know, maybe he's not trying to tip
Speaker 1: his hand here, but he was very much the you know, hey, look,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just going on this journey and he's trying
Speaker 1: to figure out the One advantage he does have is
Speaker 1: he has been in college football and probably recruited the
Speaker 1: lat of these quarterbacks, so he does have some working
Speaker 1: knowledge there. You know, I think that you know that
Speaker 1: it was interesting though the points, and this is the
Speaker 1: great thing about scouting and sitting in war rooms is
Speaker 1: the debate. You'll get one guy that is dug in,
Speaker 1: you get another guy that's dug in on the belief
Speaker 1: and then you get a guy like Jerry Jones or
Speaker 1: any other general manager around the league, and then they've
Speaker 1: got to make the call on that. And like you said,
Speaker 1: a Jason Garrett might jump in say hey, well here's
Speaker 1: here's how I see it, and somebody's feelings is gonna
Speaker 1: get hurt. But you live to fight another day. So
Speaker 1: with all that being said, we're gonna take our first
Speaker 1: break of the day. We will come back. We're gonna
Speaker 1: do a little Twitter on the twenty and answer some
Speaker 1: of your questions. You've got the Draft show from the
Speaker 1: Combine here in Indianapolis State tuned. We'll be right back
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Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Showboys hundred class Draft shows back,
Speaker 1: indeed from a radio row here at the two thousand
Speaker 1: and sixteen NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Brian brought a
Speaker 1: Stain Brugler, David Hellman and Dan Turner joining us today.
Speaker 1: We appreciate his contributions and only from yesterday, but also
Speaker 1: today we're gonna get into the part of the show
Speaker 1: that I enjoy, you know, taking the questions. We always
Speaker 1: make this about the fans we talk about to investigate
Speaker 1: and educate. We also want to hear from you, though.
Speaker 1: The way to get a hold of us is at
Speaker 1: the Draft Show. If you follow along. Kent's been pushing
Speaker 1: out a lot of good things, a lot of good
Speaker 1: information about the show. It's what's going on here and stuff,
Speaker 1: So make sure you follow there. That's the way we
Speaker 1: answer questions at the Draft Show. If you want to
Speaker 1: fire one and uh, you know, and thanks ed Ka
Speaker 1: Hill for putting the show together a long time ago
Speaker 1: and giving us this part of our segment. And with that,
Speaker 1: I turn it over to David Hellman. All Right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna there's a lot of these We're gonna try to
Speaker 1: get to as many as possible. Laurie wants to know
Speaker 1: looking for help at wide receiver. Speaking of Bruce Arians
Speaker 1: when we were off the air, you have any mid
Speaker 1: round John Brown type, deceptively fast, maybe undersized, may be
Speaker 1: lesser profile wide receivers that pique your interest. Interesting? Do
Speaker 1: you think maybe cold Colby Listen B. Maybe Colby Listen
Speaker 1: B would be a good guy. He's gonna run very well,
Speaker 1: I believe here. But the problem with him when you
Speaker 1: watch him play, I see a really a vertical player
Speaker 1: quick right, He's yeah, he's you know he is more
Speaker 1: of a vertical guy. Is stretch of defense? Um, you know,
Speaker 1: ideally maybe a number four to start off. A guy
Speaker 1: that interested me quite a bit is Jalen Marshall from
Speaker 1: Ohio State, a red shirt soft came out earlier. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of ability there. Uh. And it's it's
Speaker 1: it's still in the development phase. You know, he's still
Speaker 1: kind of realizing how good he can be. I wish
Speaker 1: you would have went back to school for another year
Speaker 1: at Ohio State to you know, continue his development. But
Speaker 1: there is something there. He can also be a punt returner.
Speaker 1: So I think Jaylen Marshall, you know, when you get
Speaker 1: into the fourth, fifth round, he could be an option. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's go ahead. Danny Well first of all, shouts out
Speaker 1: to the sorry because he's one of my Australian friends.
Speaker 1: He's very good from down Under, but he's not exactly
Speaker 1: the fastest play. But a guy who I really like
Speaker 1: from this year is DeMarcus As. He's from Houston. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: he he had two drops last year. He had quality production.
Speaker 1: He's probably the best punt returner in this class, or
Speaker 1: maybe maybe he's up there at least, and he can
Speaker 1: return kicks as well, and I mean there's just that
Speaker 1: versatility there. He'll run route as well from the slot.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's much of an outside guy. But
Speaker 1: if you just want someone who will make the roster
Speaker 1: just purely because of special teams ability and potentially an
Speaker 1: upgrade over Lucky Whitehead in that way because he can
Speaker 1: take reverses as well. And I gave him a seventh round.
Speaker 1: I was not as sold on airs. Yeah, you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right about special teams. Um, he saw so few routes,
Speaker 1: you know, everything was most of it was at the
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage. But I think he's time about speed though.
Speaker 1: Right we're struggling right now to fine. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: my board too, and I'm starting to think maybe you
Speaker 1: would have to go a little bit earlier that, you know,
Speaker 1: if you wanted to get somebody that can really really run, well,
Speaker 1: that's in this year's second and third round. You know,
Speaker 1: that's the sweet spot for the receivers this year. So
Speaker 1: you know, if thirty four of a Corey Coleman's there,
Speaker 1: or you know, you look in the early third round,
Speaker 1: you know, is that when you start to think about,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe a Will Fuller or Rashid Higgins Hollywood
Speaker 1: who grew up a Cowboys fan. I'm a big believer
Speaker 1: in Higgins, so he could he could be there in
Speaker 1: the third round. I'd like that when a guy to me,
Speaker 1: he was a first round talent, but we'll probably fall
Speaker 1: to the mid rounds and he's get Marcus Robinson Florida. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard him speak today and in fairness to him,
Speaker 1: he sounded really accountable. He called himself selfish and immature.
Speaker 1: Guess yeah, immature. He'll probably fall down to third or
Speaker 1: fourth round, but this is this is the first round
Speaker 1: talent with the ball in hand. I mean, yeah, he
Speaker 1: said that he looked up to Odell Beckham junior, and
Speaker 1: there's there's a certain part of it. There's a certain
Speaker 1: part of that which you see just in terms of
Speaker 1: the physicality with ball in hand and the way he
Speaker 1: can jink through tacklers and he can't be a bit
Speaker 1: of a body catcher at times, but he sort of
Speaker 1: gets away with it by coming back for the ball well,
Speaker 1: so he can really shake at the top of his
Speaker 1: routes and get open as well. So that's another guy
Speaker 1: who I would be interested in as long as the
Speaker 1: interviews check out in the background check and that's his
Speaker 1: interviews are as important to his draft, I guess anyone
Speaker 1: anyone here because he is a first round talent. He's
Speaker 1: a future NFL starter. But I mean I've I've talked
Speaker 1: to some scouts about him and the work the board. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the words selfish in the books the board you know
Speaker 1: hasn't been put up yet for these Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would have heard essentially selfish, Uh, you know, doesn't care,
Speaker 1: doesn't pay attention to detail, can't get out of his
Speaker 1: own way. I mean, these are the kind of things
Speaker 1: that have come up. And he was very contrite during
Speaker 1: the interview today. Um, and he has to be very
Speaker 1: convincing during interviews with teams because he does have four suspensions, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: and that three of those are for for marijuana. The
Speaker 1: other one was because he met with a marketing lady
Speaker 1: who was trying to, you know, kind of woo him
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, signing some stuff and all that.
Speaker 1: But immensely talented, but yeah, bad decisions. Again. We go
Speaker 1: back to value, because that's what the draft. Number one
Speaker 1: in the draft is evaluation. Number two is valuation and
Speaker 1: figuring out where do you take a player like this.
Speaker 1: You can't take him in the first round, but you know,
Speaker 1: where do you feel comfortable with a guy with his baggage? Okay,
Speaker 1: David good segue Dan because deco suave love that name.
Speaker 1: Wants to know and we've talked about this guy how
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of questions about where he fits, effort,
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. Kim DJ realistic to think that
Speaker 1: he's there at thirty four and would you take him there?
Speaker 1: I think it's realistic. I mean it's something where it's
Speaker 1: not just the off field with him. There's legitimate questions
Speaker 1: about how much does he love football? You know, how
Speaker 1: hard is he going to work to be the best
Speaker 1: that he could be? Because the talent and I've said
Speaker 1: this before. He's a top ten talent in this class,
Speaker 1: just not a top ten football player. And you know
Speaker 1: Willie work at it to be the best that he
Speaker 1: possibly can be, because you watch his flashes on film
Speaker 1: and oh my goodness, you'd love to have this player
Speaker 1: in your football team. It's just not consistent. And you know,
Speaker 1: I know when it comes to like Joey Bosa, you know,
Speaker 1: I say, don't pay attention to the sac numbers. All
Speaker 1: that can be overrated. It with Kimdici, he only had
Speaker 1: seven sacks and like thirty four starts, and you know
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. He impacted the game a lot
Speaker 1: more than what the box score says. On the move. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, you just expected more out
Speaker 1: of him, you know, on his tape. So so harken
Speaker 1: back to what you and uh Dan we're getting into
Speaker 1: about Hackenburg. Though it is thirty four too rich to
Speaker 1: take that, I mean, you're talking about a freak athlete.
Speaker 1: I mean, he really is a freak. I think I
Speaker 1: would rich enough personally, as long as the interviews check out,
Speaker 1: I would take a chance on him at thirty four.
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be on my board somewhere
Speaker 1: in the twenties. Um, I think someone one of those
Speaker 1: playoff teams are going to take a chance on this kid.
Speaker 1: I think think you know Denver, you know, like they
Speaker 1: did with Shane Ray last year. You know, one of
Speaker 1: these teams will take a chance. But how do you think?
Speaker 1: What do you think? Dan? Interestingly, two months ago I
Speaker 1: predicted that Kim d would be the Cowboys pick at
Speaker 1: thirty four, and I'm actually sticking with that now just
Speaker 1: because I mean, maybe maybe the Randy Gregory suspension just
Speaker 1: changes that changes that dynamic slightly. But good point. But
Speaker 1: to me, with Kim D, if you don't look at
Speaker 1: the stats, if you don't if you don't see the
Speaker 1: off field concerns, if if all you're literally doing is
Speaker 1: watching tape, I mean, this guy's a top ten talent.
Speaker 1: The fact he I mean he explodes off the ball
Speaker 1: and it's I guess you can't really I can't really
Speaker 1: stress that word enough, Like he literally explodes off and
Speaker 1: against reach blocks you're not gonna be able to reach ye, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he can, he can hit the gap movie all right.
Speaker 1: The think about it is, so they've focus in there
Speaker 1: on they paid a lot of money to Tyren Crawford
Speaker 1: to play a three techn That's a great point. This
Speaker 1: is a three technique player. I mean him and him
Speaker 1: and you know in him and Rankin's two of the
Speaker 1: best three techniques in this job. I think you can
Speaker 1: kick him outside. He can play it. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you know he can do whatever you want. I mean
Speaker 1: play at the right end first, I mean he could well,
Speaker 1: I can play both. He can provide you versatility to
Speaker 1: play anywhere on the defensive line because of his ability
Speaker 1: because burst off the ball. Don't you always I mean,
Speaker 1: don't we always say that Rod Marinelli is just about
Speaker 1: waves of guys. I mean I don't sure. Also, if
Speaker 1: you if you're taking him at thirty four, I don't
Speaker 1: have the numbers in front of me, But that's not
Speaker 1: an expensive contract in the grand scheme of things. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm paying my number two three technique.
Speaker 1: All right, let me ask you this then real quick.
Speaker 1: I'll play Devil's advocate here, though. Would you would you
Speaker 1: rather have him him as the backup to say Crawford
Speaker 1: swing guy or not swing guy but rotational player, or
Speaker 1: have a guy that's a better one technique than Nick
Speaker 1: Hayden at thirty four, I would rather have I'm just
Speaker 1: I would rather have the ladder, Yes, I would. I
Speaker 1: think it depends on your board, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: who do you have? Is a guy like a bill
Speaker 1: take your yeah, okay, Billings is there? Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think it just comes down to who you think is
Speaker 1: a better player. U. I think for me it's close
Speaker 1: on my board. I think I have both Candici and
Speaker 1: Billings closely rated. I think personally i'd go for the
Speaker 1: higher potential with Candici. You know, I'd full the dice there.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think it with these defensive tackles
Speaker 1: we talked about it, some are going to fall into
Speaker 1: that early second round and you might have a tough
Speaker 1: decision to make. He'll never say this on the record,
Speaker 1: but can't you just imagine Jason Garrett being like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're getting a boy Scout this year. Yeah, I want
Speaker 1: I want another Byron gem I don't want to deal
Speaker 1: with this again. I can talking about at thirty four,
Speaker 1: at four, any of the well, definitely at four, certainly
Speaker 1: at four, but even yeah, thirty four, sixty seven. I
Speaker 1: think these premium picks. Let's I want to share thing
Speaker 1: I want a guy that I don't have to worry about.
Speaker 1: There's yeah, what do you have Billings? In my scenario
Speaker 1: when I was talking about three or a one? Not
Speaker 1: not not what he's playing, but would you take the
Speaker 1: three or would you take the one? And what you
Speaker 1: know about the Dallas Cowboys, it's actually really close to me.
Speaker 1: But I guess I'd probably need to see a bit
Speaker 1: more from Billings as a pass rusher because at the moment,
Speaker 1: I don't really think he's gonna be there on third down,
Speaker 1: whereas in kem D. Kim d is going to be
Speaker 1: there every single third down from me, and he's gonna
Speaker 1: be rushing the passes. So I'm probably gonna take kem
Speaker 1: Dcha in this scenario, but he could change over the
Speaker 1: over the next couple of months. I need to watch
Speaker 1: them again and just kick and then kick Crawford over
Speaker 1: to the one and the way you go in the
Speaker 1: Nickels situations. Okay, if Keith wants to know if the
Speaker 1: Cowboys miss out or don't draft Jalen Ramsey at four
Speaker 1: again going back cornerbacks and safeties, that that makes sense
Speaker 1: in the thirty four range. I think people are tired
Speaker 1: of the number four talk. We're moving on to the
Speaker 1: later rounds, right, which is good. Yeah. I think that's
Speaker 1: when you talk about maybe William Jackson from Houston, UM
Speaker 1: other corners and that I lie apple if he if
Speaker 1: he I don't think he made out of the first
Speaker 1: but if he does, I'm just saying that he'd be
Speaker 1: definitely someone to consider. I think Kendall he's not going
Speaker 1: to make it out of Kendall Fuller. From now, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about the course. Well, how about Okay, let's and
Speaker 1: people they hate when I say this, but what about
Speaker 1: the Rashad Robertson kid from LSU isn't too too rich? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Homer like, guy's a train wreck. I'm sorry, I'm really
Speaker 1: worried about his off field. I mean everyone I've talked
Speaker 1: to and uh, I don't know. He seems like you
Speaker 1: just he's someone you have to constantly worry about away
Speaker 1: from the facility. Very talented individual though, but train wreck
Speaker 1: in your opinion. He's not in your opinion, but which
Speaker 1: I've been and I've talked to him, and you know,
Speaker 1: I've talked about the people about him. Um, I as
Speaker 1: as immensely talented as he is, and LSU didn't want him.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. There's just there's a lot
Speaker 1: there I don't think. And it's not a Tyrone Matthew
Speaker 1: situation in my opinion. I mean, it's a lot of
Speaker 1: focus issues, commitment issues, accountability issues. It's not like this
Speaker 1: kid just kind of you know, you liked weed or
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. There's a lot of issues there
Speaker 1: too early for exam Abean Howard not at thirty four,
Speaker 1: I don't think either. I think he's probably a third rounder.
Speaker 1: He's I don't know. I guess I see a bit
Speaker 1: of Brandon Carr in him really, just because he doesn't
Speaker 1: really have much catch up speed. Once once he lets
Speaker 1: guys guy's he's probably going to be his own corner.
Speaker 1: I don't really trust him in man coverage to me
Speaker 1: at thirty four. The guy who I actually really like
Speaker 1: is Kendall Fuller. I don't think his film really thinks
Speaker 1: to face safety myself, but go ahead, I think my
Speaker 1: corner I do. Yeah, I'm with you. I think just
Speaker 1: watch his film from twenty fourteen, and this guy, this
Speaker 1: guy is a man man cover guy. He can put
Speaker 1: Hi Man's man on the guy. So he was hurt
Speaker 1: last year and that really did not really hurt his
Speaker 1: draft stock. But to me, he's a cornerback the double
Speaker 1: move in the Ohio State game, right, it doesn't Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he he had a meniscu's tear went in August.
Speaker 1: He was trying to play through it. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a bad look and it'll be replayed over and
Speaker 1: over again. But his twenty fourteen stuff is what you
Speaker 1: focus on. And I agree. I saw a first round
Speaker 1: player two has a fourteen tape. So as long as
Speaker 1: the knee checks out, okay here at the combine in
Speaker 1: the rechecks, definitely fuller someone I consider thirty four two. Okay, David,
Speaker 1: who has impressed you guys the most through these first
Speaker 1: two days of you know and on the on field
Speaker 1: stuff hasn't really started yet, But just give me some
Speaker 1: who's really if somebody's blown you away definitely or just
Speaker 1: who's kind of been impressive for y'all. A couple of
Speaker 1: old miss guys. And we talked about Tunsil yesterday. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just the way he commanded the room was
Speaker 1: really impressive and then treadwell today, I thought he went
Speaker 1: went up there and he defended his decision not to
Speaker 1: run here at the combine, you know, explained how he
Speaker 1: switched training facilities just not too long ago so he
Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable, yet still wants to run in the
Speaker 1: low four fives. That's his goal. Uh. And I loved
Speaker 1: his answer when asked, you know, who's the tough corner,
Speaker 1: toughest corner back he faced and he said, well, I
Speaker 1: don't think there were really that many tough corners in college.
Speaker 1: And he kind of you know, went back and U said, well, okay,
Speaker 1: you know what, that Cyrus Jones is pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Florida corner is not bad. Not Vernon Hargrave's a
Speaker 1: younger one immediate a point to say that. And he
Speaker 1: also pointed out the Mississippi State corner will Redman as well.
Speaker 1: So at that tread Well did a nice job for
Speaker 1: himself up there. I think to all miss guys have
Speaker 1: been the guys that have stood out the mouse. The
Speaker 1: guy who I actually really liked was Jonathan Williams, the
Speaker 1: Arkansas running back. Now he was he was elected a
Speaker 1: team captain despite missing the year with a broken foot
Speaker 1: last year. And you can you can tell it when
Speaker 1: you actually listened to him. He's really smart, plays clued up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's film as well. You can see it
Speaker 1: on there if you look at his Alabama film from
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. He's planning against an NFL defense there in Alabama.
Speaker 1: His offensive line isn't blocking for him, his tight ends
Speaker 1: aren't blocking for him, and he's just charging at these guys.
Speaker 1: He's playing with no fit and he's basically carrying this
Speaker 1: offense just he's hitting Reggie Raglan straight in the trade
Speaker 1: in the mouth, and so you can sort of see
Speaker 1: that he's but you can you can tell when you
Speaker 1: actually listened to him and when you when you speak
Speaker 1: to him that this is a guy who really high
Speaker 1: character guy. Coaches are going to love this guy. If
Speaker 1: I told you that the foot won't be an issue
Speaker 1: moving forward, where would you draft Jonathan Williams second round?
Speaker 1: I agree? I agree, he's that type of He's a
Speaker 1: day two talent. Uh Man, Yeah, you consider him in
Speaker 1: the second round. It's really just that foot that you
Speaker 1: really worried you to have him over Collins. I do. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1: The guy was impressed with was Jack Conklin. Yeah, from
Speaker 1: Michigan stated I felt like that he was he had
Speaker 1: the most poised up there. I thought he answered all
Speaker 1: the questions very well. He was very thoughtful. He measured
Speaker 1: his words in a good way. Though he was very complimentary.
Speaker 1: He talked about he didn't talk about guys he'd played.
Speaker 1: He talked about a guy like Randy Gregory that he'd
Speaker 1: played a couple that shows you offensive tackle mentality. Right there,
Speaker 1: he remembers the guy who gave him the most trouble.
Speaker 1: He could have very easily said Bosa or somebody like that,
Speaker 1: and everybody would have jumped up and down. But he said,
Speaker 1: a guy that you know a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: came out. So I gave him a lot of credit.
Speaker 1: I think that somebody is going to get a guy
Speaker 1: six six, three hundred and three hundred and uh three
Speaker 1: or eight, you know. And he did five reps today.
Speaker 1: So we'll get into that why we like that or not.
Speaker 1: But I was very oppressed by his demeanor. I think,
Speaker 1: whoever you all you have to do in Daniel, tell
Speaker 1: you if you watch there, these guys will tell you.
Speaker 1: Watch the Alabama game, Michigan State's getting their rears kicked
Speaker 1: up front, and he's the one guy that wasn't getting
Speaker 1: his rear kicked. I think that says a lot about
Speaker 1: the type of player he could be. I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to get a big old eye roll from Dane, but
Speaker 1: I was. I thought card L. Jones had a great
Speaker 1: media session today. I really did, And like what I know,
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of things you can say about him
Speaker 1: as a player, what you think about his tape, and
Speaker 1: it's all out there for you to read. I like
Speaker 1: him more than the most people do. But he was
Speaker 1: great up there today. Man, he's you know, He's like,
Speaker 1: I can't wait till these teams put me on the
Speaker 1: white board. You know, I know my challenge him. I'm
Speaker 1: a more he said, I'm a more cerebral quarterback than
Speaker 1: I get credit for being. He's you know, he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: people definitely think I'm a goofball because there's some things
Speaker 1: I've done in my past. But he'll get a chance.
Speaker 1: You gotta be careful, He'll yeah, he'll be carefully. What
Speaker 1: he wished for that people don't see the ninety hours
Speaker 1: a week that I put in to do this. He
Speaker 1: had one more great SoundBite. It was, um, I don't
Speaker 1: care about getting a job. I'm trying to get a
Speaker 1: career in the NFL. He did he had I mean,
Speaker 1: he knew and granted he's working with George Whitfield out there,
Speaker 1: which that's what he does, so George. It just based
Speaker 1: on I I just thought he was great for the
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of went over there initially I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, Cardel Jones, this has potential to be
Speaker 1: a train wreck, because that's kind of the reputation that
Speaker 1: he has. But he was he was polished and poised
Speaker 1: and and he was good up there, so in one
Speaker 1: area where I wasn't pressed with him, and he's not
Speaker 1: at Ohio State anymore, so he had a chance to
Speaker 1: really say, you know, I was the best quarterback. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the coaches made the wrong decision taking me out,
Speaker 1: benching me at an eleven or no record as a starter.
Speaker 1: I mean, he had a chance to kind of not
Speaker 1: throw his coaches under the bus, but at least, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of deflect you know, the blame away from his
Speaker 1: inconsistent play and put it more on you know, someone else,
Speaker 1: just to make excuses. But he didn't. He said it
Speaker 1: was for the betterment of the team. You know, He's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't hit my goals this year, but it was
Speaker 1: for the better minute of the team, and I understood that.
Speaker 1: So he was very very mature with that you act
Speaker 1: and taking accountability. You mentioned that he said he said
Speaker 1: the phrase I got benched. I mean he didn't play
Speaker 1: up the stuff, and I mean, so yeah, he was.
Speaker 1: He was impressive. So I hope his on field stuff
Speaker 1: matches how he was today. Okay, we thank everybody out
Speaker 1: there for all the questions that they sent us tonight.
Speaker 1: We'll have an opportunity to do this again tomorrow night
Speaker 1: with Twitter on the twenty ALB. Make sure I tweet
Speaker 1: out when we're gonna be on and make sure you
Speaker 1: fire your questions that way. So we're going to take
Speaker 1: our last break of the night to hear from the
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen NFL combine from Radio Row here in Indianapolis.
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Speaker 1: NFC Boys Today, this is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: Draft Showwboys on the Club. We are back here on
Speaker 1: the Draft Show from the twenty sixteen NFL Combine Radio
Speaker 1: row here in Indianapolis. Brian broad Is, Dan Brugler, David Hellman,
Speaker 1: Dan Turner for the next uh fifteen twenty minutes or so.
Speaker 1: UH want to get into these uh? We did? We
Speaker 1: off the field, not off field. Field work will start
Speaker 1: with the offensive line running backs tomorrow. And but today
Speaker 1: we had some bench press first off thing. I want
Speaker 1: to get into something, and I know, did you have
Speaker 1: a question about bench press or something like that. No,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to bust on you, bust on me. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean we'll get into it. Is at the end
Speaker 1: of the show. Bust on me or is it bust
Speaker 1: I mean we'll just go Okay, you'll fit it in. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: But I want to You know, Dan, you did a
Speaker 1: fine job for for CBS Sports, And in a preview
Speaker 1: of the combine, uh, talked about things that are good
Speaker 1: about the combine. Things they're bad scouts off the record.
Speaker 1: Who scouts will love to talk off the record, you
Speaker 1: know all day, they will talk to you off the
Speaker 1: record all day, and then that you bring your name,
Speaker 1: bring their name up, and then it's like, I didn't
Speaker 1: say that. It's one of those things. So uh, and
Speaker 1: that's from experience. But the the bench press was one
Speaker 1: of the things that a scout particularly said he would
Speaker 1: get rid of it if he could. Yeah, why was that?
Speaker 1: The preview that I did kind of went step by
Speaker 1: step for each drill, explaining each one, and I got
Speaker 1: one of my scout bodies could give me a quote
Speaker 1: on each drill and say kind of how he used it,
Speaker 1: how he valued that particular drill, and a few of them.
Speaker 1: You know, he loved the shuttles, he loved the three cone.
Speaker 1: The forty he said was important for wide receivers and corners,
Speaker 1: not so much for lineman quarterbacks, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But he had an interesting quote on the bench press,
Speaker 1: basically said it was useless. He says, overrated. If the
Speaker 1: combine forgot to do the bench press, no one would care.
Speaker 1: And so I think there's something to that because it
Speaker 1: does it measures you know, your your weight room strength,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't measure functional strength, if functional football strength,
Speaker 1: and so it can be a misleading number. I think
Speaker 1: what it better tells you is who you know busts
Speaker 1: his butt in the weight room, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: what the bench press number tells you, not much more
Speaker 1: than that, And so I think it you can't get
Speaker 1: too locked up in these numbers. But a few guys
Speaker 1: that did really well for themselves today. Christian Westerman from
Speaker 1: Arizona State, talented player. Yeah, yeah, very good guard. He
Speaker 1: had a good week at the Senior Bowl and UH
Speaker 1: continued to hear thirty four reps. That's the top so
Speaker 1: far we've had this year. I think we're gonna see
Speaker 1: Andrew Billings topped out when the defensive lineman go. But
Speaker 1: for the offensive lineman, Westernman was the top guy. Connor
Speaker 1: McGovern Missouri offensive lineman was thirty three. He was next
Speaker 1: Num Bowl from Colorado at thirty two, and then Jason
Speaker 1: Spriggs from Indiana had thirty one. And it's a guy
Speaker 1: with some pretty long arms. I think doesn't always plays strong. No,
Speaker 1: he doesn't. You could go through Jason Spriggs. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: going to be not Lane Johnson in terms of that
Speaker 1: type of riser, but I think he's going to test
Speaker 1: similar as Lane Johnson did and really help himself throughout
Speaker 1: this process. At the Senior Bowl, we saw that, you know,
Speaker 1: the scouts voted him the top offensive lineman that week,
Speaker 1: and I think he's going to continue that momentum here
Speaker 1: and we're gonna see Spriggs kind of be involved in
Speaker 1: a lot more first round monks moving forward. I still
Speaker 1: have a lot of questions. I know you do too,
Speaker 1: but he's going to test really well. The your thoughts
Speaker 1: though on Dave and Dan on the bench press, anything
Speaker 1: that you know stands out about what this scout says.
Speaker 1: Is it something you feel like it's used for or not? Oh,
Speaker 1: go ahead, Dan. It just seems to be no correlation
Speaker 1: between bench press and numbers in success. I mean we
Speaker 1: were just saying in the break, Zack Martin had something
Speaker 1: like twenty three twenty four, and he has more functional
Speaker 1: strength in any offensive lineman in the NFL. And then
Speaker 1: you've got players like people like Travis Frederick as well,
Speaker 1: who I'm what he asking? It like twenty one twenty one,
Speaker 1: and he's has abenity to just drive black guys off
Speaker 1: the board is unrivaled. And then you've got there's almost
Speaker 1: like no correlation at all. So it's almost like I
Speaker 1: just don't really care at all with what these guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nice number, but it's something that it's one. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's one of the things that jumps out at you,
Speaker 1: especially when the number is lower than usual. Cody white
Speaker 1: Hair this year, Charotine, And the thing I was gonna
Speaker 1: bust on you is is that your boy Taylor Decker
Speaker 1: put up like twenty Yeah, he didn't have a good
Speaker 1: day either, but again, I think Dan's totally right, is
Speaker 1: I mean you think about it, Yeah, exactly like Dane
Speaker 1: said to weight room strength. Cool, But I mean, how
Speaker 1: much do we talk about blocking and getting pass blockers?
Speaker 1: Is about leverage and lower body strength and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: which who cares how much you can bench press when
Speaker 1: it comes to that. If if Aaron Donald can get
Speaker 1: underneath you or wiggle out from under you, it doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter. And the same thing with Zach Martin. If
Speaker 1: you can drive people, it doesn't really matter what's going
Speaker 1: on up here. So yeah, that doesn't surprise me. And honestly,
Speaker 1: you could probably find a scout in this building who
Speaker 1: will tell you that, damn near every drill out there's overrated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it is. I mean the way we talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, fans in general. You know a lot of
Speaker 1: times a guy will run a fast forwardy and you know,
Speaker 1: we think it moves them up when in reality it doesn't.
Speaker 1: I think it is a fair statement that on the outside,
Speaker 1: a lot of people overrate the combine a lot of
Speaker 1: the drills. Now you can you know a lot of
Speaker 1: these drills, you know, Ceo Bracado always told me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: those don't that don't appreciate the combine or you know,
Speaker 1: the value. They just don't understand how to use the numbers, right.
Speaker 1: And there is something to that, because there is value
Speaker 1: in a lot of these numbers depending on the position
Speaker 1: and all that. So you know, there is an overrated
Speaker 1: aspect to it from the outside looking in. But each
Speaker 1: one of these numbers provides some kind of quantitative data
Speaker 1: that these scouts will use. Yeah, and let me just
Speaker 1: uh if I could run through the top five bench
Speaker 1: pressers of all time here at the combine, you tell
Speaker 1: me what kind of football players they were? Ready? Oh boy? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Justice in nineteen ninety nine, in that combine, young man
Speaker 1: named Justin's Justin Justin Earnest. You are not a good reader. Justin.
Speaker 1: I was trying to say Justin Earnest. It's just Justin.
Speaker 1: It's like a really normal name, Justin. Anyway, Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: you're teetering on now no longer being on the combine
Speaker 1: thing just combines in the wings. Yeah, We've we've got
Speaker 1: guys who will do a much better job than you.
Speaker 1: Finish the list. Finish the list, and uh in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine had did fifty one. Oh my god, Okay,
Speaker 1: what kind of player was he? I've never take Okay,
Speaker 1: Stephen Paia, he still in the league. Yeah, forty nine
Speaker 1: rest in two thousand and eleven, defensive tackle, Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: Leif Larsen in two thousand, Mike Kudla, Mitch Purdis, pos
Speaker 1: Petris forty five times. Yeah, okay, Brodrick Bunkley two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, Bus, Jeff Owens, and Don Terry Poe. Now
Speaker 1: there's a there's a Terry pose an example of a
Speaker 1: where his all of his combined drills really translated. Well,
Speaker 1: he had a terrific ten yards split. All of his
Speaker 1: drills are really impressive. And number five Scott Young, I
Speaker 1: could read that name, Dave Scott Young in two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. He was drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles in
Speaker 1: the fifth round of that two thousand and five draft,
Speaker 1: and he had he bench pressed uh forty three times? Well,
Speaker 1: and when did do you happen to know? When? Did?
Speaker 1: When did Justin Ernest go? Like? When was he picked?
Speaker 1: Let's see when he was picked? Because I mean, if
Speaker 1: a guy has a great bench press and he wounds
Speaker 1: up winds up being a fifth round he was never drafted,
Speaker 1: he was he was never dry. It's not like people
Speaker 1: are using these as excuses to draft guys higher than
Speaker 1: they should. Yeah, he was never drafted and never played
Speaker 1: in the NFL. Wow, but damn he felt happy about
Speaker 1: that bench press numbers because of that. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1: We probably we probably at nineteen ninety nine, we probably
Speaker 1: took a look at him in your on the board.
Speaker 1: We probably we had him on the board and we
Speaker 1: probably were looking at drafting him at that point in time,
Speaker 1: but didn't do that. Oh man. So anyway though, Um,
Speaker 1: that's outstanding. Yeah it is. But the cool I can
Speaker 1: understand that. I can understand where you're a long time scout.
Speaker 1: You've you've been in those those rooms. I mean, did
Speaker 1: bench press ever come up as a as a qualifier
Speaker 1: or you know a you know, two scouts are debating
Speaker 1: a guy. Did bench press that number come up as
Speaker 1: a reason why you know, this guy should be drafted
Speaker 1: over another? No, it really didn't it. You know, we
Speaker 1: were always you know, it was it was like if
Speaker 1: a guy had a low bench press number, we made
Speaker 1: it a point to go to the school and try
Speaker 1: and get him to do it better. Yeah, just to
Speaker 1: get me even if it was twelve and just to
Speaker 1: get him to fifteen and then we just we just
Speaker 1: it wasn't like we were trying to get him to
Speaker 1: go from twelve to twenty five. We were trying to
Speaker 1: just get at least three more. And that in my
Speaker 1: limited experience covering the draft cycle, it's like it's a
Speaker 1: rough draft anyway, because all these guys are going to
Speaker 1: go back to their pro day and now they've got
Speaker 1: a disappointing number, yeah, and they can focus on whatever
Speaker 1: it was that was disappointing, whether it's forty, whether it's
Speaker 1: the bench press, whatever. And I almost always it's better
Speaker 1: when they do their approach. Let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: would you rather see them get rid of the bench
Speaker 1: press or wonderlick testing? I think both are um kind
Speaker 1: of looked at as not very useful. I think with
Speaker 1: the Wonderlick, the quarterbacks you care about, I guess, you know,
Speaker 1: just curious see what kind of they score. Um, that
Speaker 1: is it? That is like that is a badge of
Speaker 1: dishonor that some of those poor kids wear. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it is it is some of them. And that's the
Speaker 1: first thing that someone on Twitter will fire at me
Speaker 1: about Mo claiborne, that he's a dumb kid. And that's
Speaker 1: and let me tell you what the and and just
Speaker 1: real quick, I always felt like that the Wonderlick score
Speaker 1: was unfair to kids because some kids it was always
Speaker 1: about the ability to read, you know, like here, I am,
Speaker 1: I can't read these kids names sometimes, and you know
Speaker 1: it's just because you know, it wasn't just sixteen and wasn't.
Speaker 1: But you know, but I'm just telling you that some
Speaker 1: days you don't. I mean, you can't. You just don't
Speaker 1: see words right. And and it's us. It's twelve minutes
Speaker 1: and they ask you and it's questions, and I challenge
Speaker 1: you day the Wonder test absolutely, I mean you talk
Speaker 1: about I mean you're going from here to here to here.
Speaker 1: You got twelve minutes here and got twenty minutes with
Speaker 1: the media. You're doing this, you're doing that, and then
Speaker 1: you got to sit down and and I mean, I
Speaker 1: think if you're a reasonably intelligent person, you should still
Speaker 1: probably be able to do pretty well. But it's not
Speaker 1: conducive to that. It's it's about reading, and some kids
Speaker 1: don't have the advantage over others. And that you say
Speaker 1: what you want about the education system, that that's a
Speaker 1: fault it's not good. But but but but the problem
Speaker 1: that I always had with the Wonderlick test is that's
Speaker 1: something that gets leaked, okay, and that's I was going,
Speaker 1: that gets leaked, and then all of a sudden, these
Speaker 1: kids have to deal with that. I would do away
Speaker 1: with the Wonderlick because the bench press is there for
Speaker 1: everybody to see. They post the numbers on the NFL's
Speaker 1: official website, they can choose. With the Wonderlick always gets leaked.
Speaker 1: You never usually can't even trust whether that leaked number
Speaker 1: is accurate. I mean, half the guys shout out their
Speaker 1: score leaked will come out and tell you that's not
Speaker 1: true anyway. So then it's he s he said, she said, whatever. Um,
Speaker 1: I've got the two thousand and three Wonderlok scores in
Speaker 1: front of me. Tony Romo led the way thirty seven. Nice. Uh,
Speaker 1: look at Carson Palmer twenty six, m Kyle Bowler twenty seven,
Speaker 1: Wels Grossman twenty nine, and yeah's Grossman. For quarterbacks, you
Speaker 1: want at least twenty five, and so all those guys
Speaker 1: hit that mark. But no, you're right, it is. It's
Speaker 1: unfortunate for some of these kids because it does get
Speaker 1: out when it really shouldn't. Um, But I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's some some teams will fight for it. Some Scouts
Speaker 1: will fight for it just as a as a way
Speaker 1: to measure. Uh, you know, it's no different than another
Speaker 1: you know, the bench for us, where it's just another
Speaker 1: number they can use. But I think there's better ways
Speaker 1: they could be doing things. Yeah, I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot in and I and I'm gonna be real honest
Speaker 1: about there's there's a lot of drills when I first
Speaker 1: started coming here in nineteen ninety two, there's still a
Speaker 1: lot of those same drills that they're doing. And they
Speaker 1: need to if they're gonna do if they're gonna you know,
Speaker 1: they need to. They need ted Thompson, who really is
Speaker 1: on the committee for the Scouts. Go to the GMS,
Speaker 1: go to Teddy and they talk to him about, hey,
Speaker 1: we need to try and change us up. And Teddy
Speaker 1: has been a hard line on a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: about hey, you know, because what happens is as Scouts,
Speaker 1: what do you do you measure numbers? You try and
Speaker 1: can you try and compare numbers that were and now
Speaker 1: that we you know, we this, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: mean how long we've been in this facility here Now
Speaker 1: I can't even remember the soil. Yeah, so I don't
Speaker 1: know that actually this this stadium, Yeah yeah, way before,
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. So the RCIA Dome turf where
Speaker 1: they ran was different. So now scouts were all freaking
Speaker 1: out about okay, we're going from one field condition to
Speaker 1: another type of fueld condition and now you know, and
Speaker 1: that's and that was That's something that that that scouts,
Speaker 1: especially the older scouts, really try and protect. They try,
Speaker 1: they try and protect these shuttle numbers and these forty
Speaker 1: numbers and all these numbers. That's a conversation that probably
Speaker 1: deserves a lot more time. But I mean, as analytics,
Speaker 1: because I'm a bigger part of you. In the next
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen years, I wouldn't be surprised if we
Speaker 1: start to see some drastically different ways of evaluating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of studies out there that teams
Speaker 1: are doing about what correlates what doesn't. And we're going
Speaker 1: to see some changes. The forty or dash is not
Speaker 1: going away. Yeah, We're not going to see these overhaul changes,
Speaker 1: but there will be tweaks, there will be some improvements
Speaker 1: I think a few things that are maybe a little
Speaker 1: more football related. We're going to see some changes, just
Speaker 1: not an overhaul Danny tomorrow, which offensive lineman into that here,
Speaker 1: I'm getting back to this, and we got a couple
Speaker 1: more minutes. Just one guy you're looking for tomorrow, one
Speaker 1: or two guys that you're looking for, offensive lineman, running back,
Speaker 1: somebody like that on the on the field drills that
Speaker 1: we can watch. Well, I was pretty high on named
Speaker 1: Jack Conklin before we came here, and so far he's
Speaker 1: passed every test with flying colors. So and I just
Speaker 1: think tomorrow he's going to do exactly the same. Now
Speaker 1: maybe now, maybe he'll fail him and then I'll have
Speaker 1: to reevaluate something. But I'm just looking to him to
Speaker 1: basically confirm what I already know about and that he's
Speaker 1: he's early athletic, but sometimes slow footed as a player.
Speaker 1: So it would be nice to see him maybe just
Speaker 1: do some show himself to be a bit to show
Speaker 1: some quickness tomorrow, maybe the three cone drill or the
Speaker 1: short shuttle. I'm sure he'll run a fast forty time.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't surprise me if he finished in the top
Speaker 1: five of that. So yeah, I'm especially looking at Jack Conklin.
Speaker 1: And then on the running back side, I'm intrigued by
Speaker 1: some of these mid round guys who can potentially break
Speaker 1: away from the pack a little bit, so like Kelvin
Speaker 1: Taylor is one of them. For me. CJ. Procie is another.
Speaker 1: And I was hoping for training Adam that hope as
Speaker 1: he's injured. So yeah, David, I'm the king of the
Speaker 1: eye rollers when it comes to the Derrick Henry hype train.
Speaker 1: So I'm very interested to see. He said he's going
Speaker 1: to do everything, So I want to see what he
Speaker 1: can put up. I mean maybe, I mean if he
Speaker 1: can and again, I mean you don't want these numbers
Speaker 1: to determine draft status, but I mean, if he can
Speaker 1: put up some surprisingly good numbers, maybe there's some some
Speaker 1: thought to be had about him in the top forty
Speaker 1: or so. Dan, I mentioned Jason Spriggs earlier. I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna do really well. Larrmy tunsel is gonna do
Speaker 1: every drill and so I want to see how quick
Speaker 1: he is, that body control all that. I want to
Speaker 1: see that on display, see how he does. Then for
Speaker 1: the running backs, you know, a tip for everyone listening,
Speaker 1: You know you know what you've seen these guys on film.
Speaker 1: Take a guess, you know, take each guy, the guys
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable with that you've seen enough of. Guess
Speaker 1: what they're forty yard dashes. If you're off by more
Speaker 1: than you know, tens of a second, then go back
Speaker 1: and figure out maybe would you miss? Because that's what
Speaker 1: scouts are doing. They have a number in mind for
Speaker 1: each player, and if say Derrick Henry, if he runs
Speaker 1: a four seven or whatever, then okay, time to go
Speaker 1: back and figure out what do we miss? He looked, Sure,
Speaker 1: looks fast, faster than that on film. So just a
Speaker 1: way to cross check and figure out, you know, would
Speaker 1: you miss or did you get the guy right? My
Speaker 1: guy is five eleven seven on the measurements, he's two
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five pounds. He carries the ball at
Speaker 1: the Ohio State University. I'm very interested. Ezekie Elliott said
Speaker 1: he's gonna run in the four fours here, and I'm
Speaker 1: very interested to see if he can do that. He
Speaker 1: plays that way, you know, I there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of food. We keep talking about him, and people think
Speaker 1: he's a top ten type of a player. I have
Speaker 1: a feeling tomorrow he's gonna put on a show too,
Speaker 1: And yeah, exactly so he's used to know you. He
Speaker 1: might make it very hard for somebody in this top
Speaker 1: eight maybe to not take him. What if he makes
Speaker 1: it hard for somebody at number four, that's what that's
Speaker 1: what I'm hoping. That is why I'm hoping that it's
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. But anyway, five eleven, seven on the
Speaker 1: high two twenty five, you're gonna watch a big man
Speaker 1: come blowing down there and run for you tomorrow. So hey,
Speaker 1: thanks you guys for appreciate thank you for being on
Speaker 1: for us at the draft show today. We'll be back
Speaker 1: tomorrow nights at We'll be back at uh six o'clock Eastern.
Speaker 1: We'll have some conversations about how these workouts went with
Speaker 1: the offensive lineman and then also then the running backsive
Speaker 1: line and linebackers will be here. We'll talk to them.
Speaker 1: It's a lot, I'm sure, Jack Killen Smith a lot
Speaker 1: of talking, a lot to be talking. We might hear
Speaker 1: some medical information too about Jalen Smith as well. So
Speaker 1: for my my scouting buddies for Dan Turner, David Hellman, Danburg, Bryan,
Speaker 1: Bryan Browson executive producer Kent Garrison, Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for join us. We'll see you tomorrow night. From Indianapolis,