Speaker 1: From the heart where innovation, money and power Collie in
Speaker 1: Silicon Vallet NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 3: Live from San Francisco and New York. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 3: Technology coming up at and T. It reveals a massive
Speaker 3: new cyber attack.
Speaker 4: Details ahead, and we'll bring you the details on Tesla's
Speaker 4: Robotaxi on veil delay plus.
Speaker 3: Amazon and General Catalyst. They bet on an AI robotics startup.
Speaker 3: But first, Ed, what have you got on the AT
Speaker 3: and T hack?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is our big breaking technology news story this
Speaker 4: Friday morning. AT and T, in a regulatory filing has
Speaker 4: disclosed a major hack of customer data. It relates to
Speaker 4: basically all of their cell phone customers for a period
Speaker 4: of time in twenty twenty two to the beginning of
Speaker 4: May to the end of October. It is a broad
Speaker 4: spectrum of customer data. But right now the belief is
Speaker 4: that that data that has been obtained by malicious actors
Speaker 4: is not publicly available. We're actually way off session lows
Speaker 4: on the sock down seven tenths of a percent. We
Speaker 4: had been down kind of the most in about a month.
Speaker 4: You know, it's kind of hard to gauge situation. I
Speaker 4: think the main point is that we're still assessing, Caroline,
Speaker 4: the vulnerability of that customer data. But the context, I
Speaker 4: think is that this is a big hack. This is
Speaker 4: something that and it's different from a hack a year ago,
Speaker 4: which we already talked about.
Speaker 3: Well said, the context is this has happened quite recently.
Speaker 3: Before we get straight to John Butler of Bloomberg Intelligence
Speaker 3: on the hack. As Ed mentioned, John AT and T
Speaker 3: has said it currently doesn't believe that the data is
Speaker 3: publicly available. What is the damage.
Speaker 5: Well, I think the damage for eight and two could
Speaker 5: be to their brand image in the nearer term. The
Speaker 5: one thing I'd say, Caroline, when you think about it
Speaker 5: is think of all the hacks that have happened with
Speaker 5: Fortune five hundred companies over the past year. It's become
Speaker 5: quite common, and so I think from a consumer standpoint,
Speaker 5: people maybe more whole hum about it than they would
Speaker 5: have been, say, five years ago, are given how common
Speaker 5: hacks have become. Having said that, this is bad news
Speaker 5: for AT and T in the sense that, as Ed
Speaker 5: just mentioned, it's the second big hack announced in less
Speaker 5: than a year.
Speaker 4: I want to bring some of the latest News. We've
Speaker 4: got John to you and our audience just before we
Speaker 4: came on air. To be expected, but we started to
Speaker 4: hear from regulatory agencies and bodies, and AT and T
Speaker 4: had already said they were in touch with law enforcement.
Speaker 4: But the FBI says it's been contacted by AT and
Speaker 4: T about this. The FCC is investigating the massive hack
Speaker 4: of AT and T customer data. The question is what
Speaker 4: is the vulnerability to AT and T. What is the
Speaker 4: risk to the company from this point.
Speaker 5: So I think regulators are going to look into how
Speaker 5: it's handling its data.
Speaker 4: So to be clear, this.
Speaker 5: Hack was not on AT and t's network. It's to
Speaker 5: be clear, it's network was not breached. It was housing
Speaker 5: data with a third party cloud provider. So it generates
Speaker 5: massive amounts of data through call logs.
Speaker 4: Right when you.
Speaker 5: Call someone, it logs your number and the number being called.
Speaker 5: That's the type of data that was stored on, as
Speaker 5: Bloomberg reported, Snowflake's data platform, and that's where the breach was.
Speaker 5: So I think data regulators or telecom regulators are going
Speaker 5: to look into data storage practices, and of course AT
Speaker 5: and T will be open to potentially consumer lawsuits from this.
Speaker 3: To that point. We reached out to Snowflake as well,
Speaker 3: John and the company saying we have not identified evidence
Speaker 3: suggesting this activity was caused by vulnerability misconfigurational breach of
Speaker 3: snowflakes platform. Is there any read across to more broadly,
Speaker 3: how companies like AT and T do work with third parties.
Speaker 5: So I think, like a lot of Fortune five hundred companies,
Speaker 5: a lot of data now is moving into cloud storage
Speaker 5: because it just isn't practical in the age of data
Speaker 5: to store everything on premise. So I'm sure AT and
Speaker 5: T is going to do a reevaluation of its vendors.
Speaker 5: I'm sure a lot of companies do that routinely. And
Speaker 5: for Snowflake, I think they are probably having spoken with
Speaker 5: our analyst here who covers the company, They're probably going
Speaker 5: to lean much more heavily into securing their platform and
Speaker 5: augmenting the level of security around the data that's housed
Speaker 5: on the Snowflake network.
Speaker 3: John Butler, I've bing meg Intelligence. Thanks for breaking all
Speaker 3: down for us. We appreciate it. Meanwhile, we follow on
Speaker 3: from an incredible scoop from our own ed Ludlow and
Speaker 3: Dana Hull yesterday than Tesla has been of course, delaying
Speaker 3: that roll out, that unrailing of its robotax that was
Speaker 3: set for August the eighth by a couple of months.
Speaker 3: Now we're down on a two day basis, but we
Speaker 3: have recovered somewhat on the trading today, Dan ivesand police
Speaker 3: to say managing director senior ecty analyst at Wembush joined
Speaker 3: for more and you put out a note very quickly
Speaker 3: on this reporting saying the delay did not change ultimately
Speaker 3: your bullish call on Tesla. Why not.
Speaker 6: Look, I mean, it's two months when we're not talking
Speaker 6: nine months a year. You'd rather than be what I
Speaker 6: view as kind of a jaw dropper event, and that's
Speaker 6: what really needs to happen in terms in October. And
Speaker 6: obviously the delay is not what you want to see.
Speaker 6: So no one's popping champagne when you hear that there's
Speaker 6: gonna be deayed. You know, congrats to Ed and Dana
Speaker 6: on the story. But in terms of the AI story FSD,
Speaker 6: the next phase of Tesla that's unchanged. That's why, in
Speaker 6: our opinion, this is just more an air pocket period
Speaker 6: to get on to what I view as gold at
Speaker 6: the end of the rainbow.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about some of the calls at the end
Speaker 3: of the Rainbow ed. I mean we had seen a
Speaker 3: run up in Tesla's stock previous week, up twenty seven percent.
Speaker 3: We did see a fall yesterday.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and look what really surprised me overnight was all
Speaker 4: of the retail investor community are very publicly on x
Speaker 4: saying to Elon Musk, like, can you confirm this? Can
Speaker 4: you confirm this? Like Bloomberg stands by its reporting, and
Speaker 4: we always reach out to Elon Musk and any other
Speaker 4: avenue at Tesla to ask for comment and verify. But Dan,
Speaker 4: what was it then? I know that you remain bullish
Speaker 4: on Tesla, But when I said you were coming on
Speaker 4: the show, a lot of folks in that community were saying,
Speaker 4: we'll explain that the eight point four percent drop that
Speaker 4: happened in Thursday session. Is that just because the run
Speaker 4: up in the stock that preceded it, or is it
Speaker 4: because of genuine concern?
Speaker 6: No, I think it's more the run up.
Speaker 4: Book.
Speaker 6: This is going to be an historical day, whether a
Speaker 6: dated or TENAID or whatever day it's going to be
Speaker 6: in October. While anticipation going in here, and in my opinion,
Speaker 6: Tessa's more of an AI robotics play than just an
Speaker 6: auto company and investors, they don't like the lease because
Speaker 6: then it feeds into that narrative. And obviously the Bears,
Speaker 6: you know, they focus on in terms of empty promises.
Speaker 6: And I think it's important, and this is the most
Speaker 6: important thing that when they have this event in October,
Speaker 6: it doesn't disappoint. It shows the path for robotaxies, shows
Speaker 6: our time, as shows the AI vision and monization two
Speaker 6: months away. That's arounding our relative to where we see
Speaker 6: longer term. As we've said, I think the AI story
Speaker 6: alone is worth a trillion dollars for Tessa.
Speaker 4: Mister Ives, we always appreciate having you on this program
Speaker 4: going back technology. You are unwaveringly bullish on everything, and
Speaker 4: we just show you a graphic with your coverage right
Speaker 4: all the stocks that you are across thirty buys, three
Speaker 4: holds and zero cells. So again I kind of think, Caroline,
Speaker 4: what would it take to make mister Ives a little
Speaker 4: more cautious on Tesla White? What is it that he
Speaker 4: would see that would make him rethink it's cool?
Speaker 6: Carra, I don't know, Yeah, I mean what i'd say
Speaker 6: to that point, Look, we've talked. I mean, for the
Speaker 6: last almost twenty five years. I mean really pound the
Speaker 6: table on tech and of course we've had bad calls
Speaker 6: in there as well, but our view, especially where we
Speaker 6: are in the last decade, but especially the last what
Speaker 6: I called eighteen months, this AI revolutions just starting. So
Speaker 6: when I look at Tesla and what would make us negative.
Speaker 6: We talked about a quarter or two ago that must
Speaker 6: need to step it up right in terms of adult
Speaker 6: in the point I think, and.
Speaker 4: I think he did that.
Speaker 6: I think deliveries was important for two Q and I
Speaker 6: think you know, you saw a lot of the Bears
Speaker 6: going back into their kids for that. But you need
Speaker 6: to continue to see demand stabilization, no more major price
Speaker 6: cuts and October you gotta deliver in terms of this
Speaker 6: next phase of the store.
Speaker 3: In terms of ROBOTAXI, I'm really interested by the today
Speaker 3: that you're like, this is an AI robotics play. More broadly,
Speaker 3: that's certainly what we've heard from Elon. Apple suddenly has
Speaker 3: got on the AI bandwagon as well. They're also talking
Speaker 3: up production at least for their suppliers. That's what we
Speaker 3: reported yesterday. How are you feeling about the AI play
Speaker 3: for that big company that you're also an outperformance, and we've.
Speaker 6: Talked the consumer AI revolution goes through Apple. So when
Speaker 6: you think about WWDC and I'll compare it a little
Speaker 6: to maybe a Robotaxiday, that was a historical day, and
Speaker 6: I think that's where investors started to recognize the keys
Speaker 6: to that kingdom is Apple. And we've talked about a
Speaker 6: huge part of what I think not just the valuation,
Speaker 6: but catalyzing this next upgrade cycle is going to be
Speaker 6: Apple intelligence and AI and that just speaks to a
Speaker 6: broader view and tech and we see with Google, Amazon,
Speaker 6: of course in the Dell and Microsoft and godfather of AI,
Speaker 6: Jens in a video, Dan.
Speaker 4: I want to just remind you specific points to our
Speaker 4: audience that we reported. One is that part of the
Speaker 4: Robotaxi delay was because I think Elon Musk wanted more
Speaker 4: to show. We said via sources that they wanted to
Speaker 4: have more prototypes, but they also had some design rethink.
Speaker 4: And in the same moment, Uber and Lyft jumped five
Speaker 4: percent in the session. What did that tell you about
Speaker 4: how seriously investors in the market take Tesla in basically
Speaker 4: an app based ride hailing platform that Tesla might introduce.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I also i'd say, I mean you get
Speaker 6: in England when and that scoop it was a good
Speaker 6: day for a world war right, And I think when
Speaker 6: you when you talk about the AI piece, yeah, I
Speaker 6: mean I think there's worries about this fleet and what
Speaker 6: that could ultimately look like for Uber and WEPT. So
Speaker 6: that negative for Tasos views the paths of Uber and WEPT.
Speaker 6: I don't view a zero some game. I think some
Speaker 6: of the negative specific when Uber is overdone in terms
Speaker 6: of what this is going to mean from a robotaxi
Speaker 6: fleet perspective. And I ultimately believe that something where they're
Speaker 6: going to have partnerships as well Tessa when it comes
Speaker 6: to Ride shair but three five years from them, I
Speaker 6: mean there's going to be a decent percentage, whether it's
Speaker 6: ten percent or twenty percent, that that Ride Shairing will
Speaker 6: not have a driver.
Speaker 4: Be interesting to see if way most still in that
Speaker 4: conversation as well, Dan ives of Webbush, thank you, Happy Friday,
Speaker 4: Grateful to have you on set.
Speaker 3: It's got a bit of a macro picture right now.
Speaker 3: In the markets, there is risk on for tech names.
Speaker 3: The NASDAT goes higher more than one point two percent,
Speaker 3: volumes higher on this benchmark as well, and that is
Speaker 3: perhaps we get a feel good music coming back in
Speaker 3: when we're looking at consumer expectations for inflation dialing down
Speaker 3: to two point nine percent. Yes, US producer prices were
Speaker 3: climbing a little, but actually if you dig into the
Speaker 3: personal consumption expenditship price IndX, that didn't look bad two
Speaker 3: yr yels they four. We're seeing actually Europe on fire
Speaker 3: stock markets more broadly around the world doing well, albeit
Speaker 3: maybe summon age your sell off Japan intervening once again.
Speaker 3: But we want to get to the macro pics and
Speaker 3: what it means the tech stocks on a Rathbun's with
Speaker 3: us cioc bused investment advisory services and look, this tech
Speaker 3: market has been what's dragged us higher on a Can
Speaker 3: it continue to do so?
Speaker 2: I think it can. And here's why.
Speaker 7: There are some weaknesses in the economy, as we've been
Speaker 7: talking about I think for the last month or so.
Speaker 7: And when there are weaknesses, there's bound to be cost
Speaker 7: reduction and cost management as well as margin pressure. So
Speaker 7: if you look at it from that perspective, the cyclical
Speaker 7: areas of the markets are going to continue to be pressured.
Speaker 7: What does that mean for tech sucks. We have believed
Speaker 7: that the tech stock rally has not just been an
Speaker 7: AI phenomenon, it is also a quality phenomenon. So when
Speaker 7: you have tech sucks running, really the companies that are
Speaker 7: at the MAC seven companies that have given us more
Speaker 7: than fifty percent your year earnings growth in Q one,
Speaker 7: there's a reason to be in those stocks other than AI.
Speaker 7: You continue to see economic pressure, we think there's more
Speaker 7: room for quality stocks to do well.
Speaker 4: And a single session a market does not make. But
Speaker 4: I found yesterday very interesting, you know, the moment that
Speaker 4: Dana and I and Caroline reported that the Tesla news
Speaker 4: it clearly had an impact on the index level, and
Speaker 4: we all reflected that it was the worst performer on
Speaker 4: the S and P five hundred and the NASDAT one hundred,
Speaker 4: But the biggest points drags were in Nvidia and other
Speaker 4: names relating to aib it on the software side, like Microsoft.
Speaker 4: I think is there a lesson to be taken from
Speaker 4: that in yesterday's session.
Speaker 7: Well, I think the lesson is that investors had been
Speaker 7: flocking to them because they're heavy, heavy with flush with cash,
Speaker 7: little debt, and that is the place to be.
Speaker 2: And when the FED is it lowers interest rates, as.
Speaker 7: The CPI number seemed to suggest yesterday, we're going to
Speaker 7: have a rotation into more cyclical areas that had been
Speaker 7: really pressured downward. And so I think the lesson yesterday
Speaker 7: it was a confirmation for me actually that a lot
Speaker 7: of the reasons for the Tech Magnificent seven going up
Speaker 7: had also been quality, and that the reason for believing
Speaker 7: that Max seven can continue to do well.
Speaker 2: Going forward. It was a confirmation.
Speaker 3: Well, therein lies the question of earnings and proof of fundamentals.
Speaker 3: The banks today not looking good, Anna, but all eyes
Speaker 3: continue to be Netflix as they come first. But then
Speaker 3: some of the Max seven, as you mentioned, can they
Speaker 3: support the valuations with the earnings growth that manufacturing in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the valuation component is the sticking point.
Speaker 7: The question is how much of the valuation is reflective
Speaker 7: of earnings, how much of it is reflective of AI,
Speaker 7: and how much of it is just investors flocking to quality.
Speaker 2: And that's very difficult to tease out.
Speaker 7: On the AI component, It's like, how do you even
Speaker 7: price hope because frankly, I mean, we are seeing AI
Speaker 7: kind of filtering into the consumer life through I guess
Speaker 7: rufus was in use today to fetch, you know, information
Speaker 7: from Amazon, but we still don't know exactly how it's
Speaker 7: going to be expressed in the productivity component the labor market.
Speaker 7: So that is the sticking point and that's why we're
Speaker 7: pretty much balanced in terms of our investing.
Speaker 2: We're very, very diversified. When the market seem to.
Speaker 7: Be irrational irrational, we write it and then we rebalance
Speaker 7: it taking the gains, and that has been our strategy
Speaker 7: year today.
Speaker 4: Anna, the world was watching last night in the context
Speaker 4: of NATO summit, press conferences, and a US presidential election.
Speaker 4: If you are an investor operating in the technology sector,
Speaker 4: do you look at it as well and think about
Speaker 4: what might happen to the areas you put money depending
Speaker 4: on the outcome in November.
Speaker 7: Well, so, the big threat I think to big tech
Speaker 7: is regulation. And I know there's been a lot of
Speaker 7: talk about one party rule in Washington, and that's really
Speaker 7: it's way too early, but I think there is a
Speaker 7: fear of that. If we do have a one party rule,
Speaker 7: it's not so much just about the White House, right,
Speaker 7: It's about passing of laws. And if that's the case,
Speaker 7: then it changes the landscape for not only tech but
Speaker 7: definitely for AI because there's a lot of fear around it.
Speaker 7: So I would say that that's the uncertainty that is
Speaker 7: facing us in the future.
Speaker 4: Anna Rathband, COEO of CBIZ Investment Advisory Services, Thank you
Speaker 4: very much. Now, coming up on Bloomberg Technology, there are
Speaker 4: growing calls on the Hill for a probe into Microsoft's
Speaker 4: AI deal with the Amorati company G forty two. We
Speaker 4: have some more details next, this is Blomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Now ken you Republican lawmakers. They are now calling for
Speaker 3: a formal intelligence probe into the outing AI partnership between
Speaker 3: Microsoft and Abadabai from G forty two, with a focus
Speaker 3: on the emeranti companies ties to China. That's bring abey
Speaker 3: Meg's Mackenzie Halkins. We've had murmurings, wiries, now it's more formal.
Speaker 3: What is key the risk here of them?
Speaker 8: So we have yesterday House Foreig Affairs Committee Chairman Mike
Speaker 8: McCall and the chairman of the China Select Committee calling
Speaker 8: for a formal Biden Administration intelligence probe into this partnership
Speaker 8: between Microsoft and G forty two, This deal which has
Speaker 8: Microsoft investing one and a half billion dollars in the
Speaker 8: hottest AI startup in the Gulf has attracted a lot
Speaker 8: of scrutiny in Washington on issues ranging from human rights
Speaker 8: to the risk of sensitive American type being diverted to China.
Speaker 8: And folks in Congress have been frustrated for a long
Speaker 8: time about what they see as a lack of transparency
Speaker 8: from the Biden administration. They haven't gotten a comprehensive briefing,
Speaker 8: and they're now saying it's not enough for the US
Speaker 8: government to be working on sort of general frameworks behind
Speaker 8: closed doors. They want to see the intelligence community prepare
Speaker 8: a formal assessment and evaluate all of the national security
Speaker 8: risks that they've identified.
Speaker 4: Mackenzie, you and I've been through a similar story together
Speaker 4: with CATL, the Chinese battery maker and its relationships with
Speaker 4: US auto makers, and it was kind of the China
Speaker 4: Hawks that were doing this in DC. How analogous is
Speaker 4: this G forty two and Microsoft.
Speaker 8: Tie So we're looking at two different types of investments.
Speaker 8: The CTL thing that you mentioned has a partnership between
Speaker 8: CTL and Ford for a battery plant in Michigan, but
Speaker 8: it's not actually a direct investment by Ford into a
Speaker 8: Chinese company. And in G forty two's cases, is a
Speaker 8: Chinese company. The concern actually is that if the US
Speaker 8: allows sensitive American technology everything from AI model weights to
Speaker 8: the Nvidia H one hundred ships that would be necessary
Speaker 8: to actually stand up a data center that China would
Speaker 8: be able to use G forty two, and the UAE
Speaker 8: as a country as a backdoor to access technology that
Speaker 8: the US has cut China off from. So these are
Speaker 8: sort of different situations, but a similar tide of concern
Speaker 8: in Washington that's been consistent over the past couple of
Speaker 8: years that any deal between a US company and a
Speaker 8: Chinese company, or a company with links to sanction of
Speaker 8: Chinese companies, poses an inherent national security risk.
Speaker 4: Bloomberg's Mackenzie Hawkins always on it really appreciate your reporting.
Speaker 4: This Friday, thank you. Open Ai has come up with
Speaker 4: a set of five levels to track its progress toward
Speaker 4: building AI software capable without performing humans. It's the startup's
Speaker 4: latest effort to help people better understand its thinking about
Speaker 4: safety and the future of AI. Bloomberg Rachel Mets is
Speaker 4: here with the details. I saw you put this out
Speaker 4: last night on social media, and I think for like
Speaker 4: the everyday person right through to investors and AI industry participants.
Speaker 4: This is kind of a set of codified rules that
Speaker 4: might be helpful. What are they So?
Speaker 1: The company has these five levels, and they also told
Speaker 1: employees that they believe they're on level one, which is
Speaker 1: chatbots similar to GPT, which is probably their most popular product.
Speaker 1: There are sort of on the cost between level one
Speaker 1: and level two, which they call reasoners. This would be
Speaker 1: machines that have more of the reasoning type capabilities similar
Speaker 1: to what humans today can only do They put this
Speaker 1: out in part because they want people to be a
Speaker 1: little bit more aware of how they're thinking about this
Speaker 1: process of trying to build artificial general intelligence, which has
Speaker 1: long been the company's stated goal.
Speaker 3: Whether or not they will get there is another story.
Speaker 1: But they've been working on this for quite a long time, and.
Speaker 3: Rachel and to that point, Somemman himself have said maybe
Speaker 3: we get to AGI in the next decade. Hasn't been
Speaker 3: any whisperings of ultimately how far along how quickly we
Speaker 3: could get to the ultimate level five.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think everybody has a different opinion on this.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things we have to think
Speaker 1: about is like this is a very rough draft in
Speaker 1: progress thing that they're working on here as as they
Speaker 1: were very clear about saying, and they're going to be
Speaker 1: taking feedback from a lot of different kinds of people.
Speaker 1: But nobody can really agree on what it even would
Speaker 1: mean to have artificial general intelligence AI that can outperform
Speaker 1: humans or do a lot of the things do all
Speaker 1: the things that humans stay can currently do. So maybe
Speaker 1: we need to work on that to you know, figure
Speaker 1: out what do we mean when we talk about that,
Speaker 1: like what would that look like?
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Rachel mets all over trying to gauge the risks
Speaker 3: that is to artificial intelligence. I'll come back to Bluembag technology.
Speaker 4: I'm Caroline Hide in New York and I met Lolo
Speaker 4: in San Francisco, and I'm looking at the markets really quick. Caro,
Speaker 4: I think the story this Friday is very much like
Speaker 4: fed BET's cut rate, something like that's going on. We're
Speaker 4: looking at economic data. But the conversation we had early
Speaker 4: in the show about also thinking valuation, what's having the
Speaker 4: election is at play? Now's that one hundred one point
Speaker 4: two percent, Tessa's a really interesting component of that. Right
Speaker 4: rebounded from its biggest drop since January twenty fourth on Thursday.
Speaker 4: It's now up three point four percent. Generally there is
Speaker 4: a risk on attitude and the ev names others like
Speaker 4: Ribban and Lucid are caught up in that. I've also
Speaker 4: been thinking a little bit about bitcoin, you know, we
Speaker 4: do say it's kind of our go to risk asset
Speaker 4: from time to time. Not a lot going on over
Speaker 4: the course of the week. It's a weekly gain of
Speaker 4: one point six percent, But at fifty eight thousand US
Speaker 4: dollars per token, we're trading at a level that we
Speaker 4: were kind of at in February and March before the
Speaker 4: steeper climb tied to the approval of spot bitcoin ETFs,
Speaker 4: and I just don't see a lot in the moment
Speaker 4: out there. A lot of our audience will say, well,
Speaker 4: we poddle, you know, we're all about the long term,
Speaker 4: but we do a little check on it, and then
Speaker 4: maybe it's back to being a risk asset along with
Speaker 4: everything else in a risk on environment. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Well, if you don't know, we've got someone to ask.
Speaker 3: Thomas Perfumo is with us had a strategy at cracking
Speaker 3: and Thomas, look, there's been a lot of supply side
Speaker 3: issues weighing at least sentiment wise, worries about the Manox
Speaker 3: issuance coming back, giving back bar and German government moving
Speaker 3: things around within wallets. But fundamentally, what is our next catalyst?
Speaker 3: Is it the ETHTF if and as and when it comes.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So I think in the short run, I'd say
Speaker 9: there's about four big catalysts in the second half that
Speaker 9: I'm looking out for. So broadly speaking, risk assets, we're
Speaker 9: talking about the macro economy. So Canada, Europe already cutting
Speaker 9: interest rates. Question is one, is the fay're going to
Speaker 9: do it and to what degree are they going to
Speaker 9: do it? With crypto specifically, the ethere METF launch is
Speaker 9: a big deal that brings a lot of attention on crypto. Again,
Speaker 9: it brings a lot of capital flows. It's a rising
Speaker 9: tide lifts all both story. Looking forward, US election sets
Speaker 9: the tone for policymaking and the legislative agenda for the
Speaker 9: next four years. And then beyond that, you know, I
Speaker 9: think it's just the ongoing trend of adoption a bitcoin
Speaker 9: global engagement, with exchange traded products like the UK and
Speaker 9: Hong Kong launching their own, as well as increased access
Speaker 9: to crypto ETFs here in the US, and then actually
Speaker 9: Tomas mentions an election here in the US something we've
Speaker 9: been thinking a lot about and the impact on crypto.
Speaker 4: Right ed, Yeah, I mean one of the things I
Speaker 4: reported Tomas was this idea that vivid Ramaswami had acted
Speaker 4: as like an intermediary between Elon Musk and Donald Trump,
Speaker 4: former President Trump, and one of the areas that they
Speaker 4: found a renewed common ground was on crypto. So I
Speaker 4: wanted to ask if Kraken kind of has a scenario
Speaker 4: or game plan for the either case in this election,
Speaker 4: what happens in crypto markets if it's Biden, or what
Speaker 4: happens if it's Trump, or you know, after last night,
Speaker 4: we may ask if it's a different Democratic nominee. We
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm not an expert on the political spectrum here,
Speaker 9: but I will say that when it comes to the
Speaker 9: US specifically, it's really about legislative action and develop link
Speaker 9: clarity for this industry. And when I think about the
Speaker 9: issues that we've seen this year, the progress we've made,
Speaker 9: it's really been a late progress along the Congress where
Speaker 9: they've passed two bills more recently Fit twenty one in
Speaker 9: SAB one two to one, And what interesting there is.
Speaker 9: It showcases some of the bipartisan support that's emerging for
Speaker 9: crypto legislation in the Congress at least, And so even
Speaker 9: though you've hit barriers at the executive level, still good
Speaker 9: progress going forward. I think, of course, the Republican side
Speaker 9: of things seems to be more pro crypto, more progressive
Speaker 9: in that sense. Trump going to Big Nationale in a
Speaker 9: couple of weeks, so we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 4: Tamas can I make a hard pivot to football or
Speaker 4: for our American audience soccer. Regular views of this show
Speaker 4: will know I'm obsessed, and so I note the partnership
Speaker 4: with Atletico The thing I've always thought about Alertico Madrid
Speaker 4: is they have a massive following in Latin America, even
Speaker 4: though they may be the smaller of the clubs in
Speaker 4: the city of Madrid. Just explain why you did that.
Speaker 9: Sure, so I'll try to keep this short, But Kraigman
Speaker 9: was founded in twenty eleven with this ambitious vision to
Speaker 9: be the most trusted and secure place to buy crypto
Speaker 9: anywhere in the world. And when you think about our
Speaker 9: thirteen year legacy pioneering things like proof of reserves, audits,
Speaker 9: things like being a day one supporter for a theear
Speaker 9: and when it launched, being a day one supporter for saking,
Speaker 9: when Tezos launched this concept, and even today making crypto
Speaker 9: accessible to the world.
Speaker 4: Now we feel like we've earned the.
Speaker 9: Right to boast about this legacy being in the market
Speaker 9: for thirteen years, but it's only in the last year
Speaker 9: that we've really started to bring our brand out into
Speaker 9: the world. So things like our F one partnership with
Speaker 9: Williams Racing, or even this new partnership with Atltico Madrid,
Speaker 9: one of the most iconic football teams in Spain. And
Speaker 9: so I think it's really just a showcase that we're
Speaker 9: trying to get crack and known globally in a place
Speaker 9: that we have already operated for a number of years.
Speaker 9: And so we're really proud of everything that we're doing now.
Speaker 3: Marketing Tomas to an audience that you want to come
Speaker 3: and use the product, but also maybe is marketing to
Speaker 3: an investor base that eventually you go public into Is
Speaker 3: that something that you're lying in terms of this market.
Speaker 9: I got nothing propriety to share here, but I will
Speaker 9: say our missions to accelerate the adoption of crypto strategic
Speaker 9: paths available to make that happen is something we're going
Speaker 9: to be exploring.
Speaker 3: And we pause the numbers. We look at a fifty
Speaker 3: eight thousand handle on a bitcoin, and we've been looking
Speaker 3: at what the old coins have been doing in the
Speaker 3: mean coin rush that we've seen. But ultimately, are we
Speaker 3: still seeing money move into the overall ecosystem for the
Speaker 3: second half of the year or do we trade where
Speaker 3: we're currently at? Do you think so?
Speaker 9: I think a lot of it hinges on the ETHEREMTF
Speaker 9: and the launch of that, So a lot of the
Speaker 9: market sentiment is trying to gauge what kind of capital
Speaker 9: inflows do we see from that event in general? So
Speaker 9: from what I've been able to gauge, I think the
Speaker 9: market is pricing in something along the lines of seven
Speaker 9: hundred and fifty million to a billion dollars of net
Speaker 9: inflows into a theem METF products on a monthly basis,
Speaker 9: and so if we start to match that, I think
Speaker 9: that creates positive support for the industry. If we surpassed that,
Speaker 9: note that bitcoin was at a pace of north of
Speaker 9: two and a half billion, that's where you start thinking
Speaker 9: about maybe Ethereum tests all time highs in the mid
Speaker 9: four thousand range and again rising thigh lift our boats.
Speaker 9: One last note here is when I look at the
Speaker 9: prior all time high back in March for bitcoin, that's
Speaker 9: what I'm calling a quiet peak. We didn't see similar
Speaker 9: levels of extreme volatility or similar levels of unpreceded volatility
Speaker 9: of sign ups on our platform to suggest that you
Speaker 9: really had peak momentum of lots of people, tens of millions,
Speaker 9: hundreds of millions of people coming into the industry for
Speaker 9: the first time.
Speaker 3: Hundreds of millions. Tomaskov, Humo, we thank you had a
Speaker 3: strategy at Kraken and what are you as you looking
Speaker 3: at so some.
Speaker 4: Of the other big news stories in today's Talking Tech.
Speaker 4: First up, a rare failure for SpaceX. The company's Falcon
Speaker 4: nine rocket deployed twenty Starlink satellites but into the wrong orbit.
Speaker 4: In a post on, X CEO Elon Musk said a
Speaker 4: portion of the upper engine failed for unknown reasons. SpaceX
Speaker 4: has said it made contact with five of the satellites
Speaker 4: and will attempt to reposition them using the attached thrusters.
Speaker 4: Within the last hour at the FAA's announced it will
Speaker 4: require a probe into that File nine failure. But I
Speaker 4: would say that's largely procedural. Soft Bank strengthens its chip investments.
Speaker 4: The Japanese investor acquired UK semiconductor startup Graph Corps. The
Speaker 4: companies set to operate as a soft Bank subsidiary and
Speaker 4: will keep its management team. The financial terms of that
Speaker 4: deal were not disclosed, and Samsung is facing more walkouts,
Speaker 4: this time at one of the company's most advanced AI
Speaker 4: memory chip plants. Several hundred workers joined the protests on
Speaker 4: Thursday and Friday. As the campaign for higher wages continue.
Speaker 4: Union leaders have told Bloomberg they're targeting smaller but important
Speaker 4: complexes in the hopes of amping up pressure.
Speaker 3: Caroline fascinating. Meanwhile, stay global with the Russian story now
Speaker 3: waging war under the sea. This question has been emerging
Speaker 3: after a worrying pattern of missing underwater cables. Who most
Speaker 3: Jordan Robertson has a story.
Speaker 10: In twenty twenty one, an unexplained incident occurred off the
Speaker 10: coast of Norway. An important undersea data cable had been damaged,
Speaker 10: and no one could explain.
Speaker 11: Why something was obviously seriously wrong. Nothing worked anymore, no instruments,
Speaker 11: no sensors. Where the cable was supposed to be there
Speaker 11: was no cable.
Speaker 4: You just see mayhem at.
Speaker 10: The bottom of the world's oceans line essential network of
Speaker 10: data cables. They stretched hundreds of thousands of miles around
Speaker 10: the world.
Speaker 12: Information flow, communications, banking system, financial communications. It's a vast
Speaker 12: network and it's extremely vulnerable.
Speaker 10: Damage to any of them could be catastrophic.
Speaker 12: It could spread a panic, disrupt the normal functioning of states.
Speaker 10: In the last few years, there have actually been a
Speaker 10: whole series of incidents involving undersea cables. These may not
Speaker 10: be freak accidents. They may actually be a sign of
Speaker 10: something more sinister sabotage.
Speaker 4: That was epic and that was Bloomberg Jordan robertson who
Speaker 4: you can catch the full story from on Bloomberg dot com,
Speaker 4: and there's also a much longer video report on the issue.
Speaker 4: All right, coming up, we're going to be joined by
Speaker 4: the CEO of Standard Box on the company's fresh series
Speaker 4: B round and how they're going to use the new funds.
Speaker 4: That's next. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about robotics. AI robotics, the startup Standard Bots.
Speaker 3: It's raised sixty three million dollars over a series of deals,
Speaker 3: with a majority of the funding hall which has not
Speaker 3: previously been reported, coming in at thirty nine million dollars
Speaker 3: Series B round led by General Catalyst, the participation from
Speaker 3: some key strategics, Amazon Industrial Innovation Fund and Samsung. Next
Speaker 3: here from Standardbot CEO and then Ben. Great to have
Speaker 3: you here.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: How quickly did it come about, Kim?
Speaker 4: Really quickly.
Speaker 13: Jerald Carlos actually preempted around. So I think it shows
Speaker 13: the how hot air and robotics is at the moment.
Speaker 3: Okay, is this feel like slowly, slowly all at once?
Speaker 3: Because I'm pretty sure you've been at this for quite
Speaker 3: a while and already you've had your ro palms in companies.
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.
Speaker 13: I think it's I think it's a really it's a
Speaker 13: moment in time where we realize this is happening.
Speaker 4: Evan, I am really grateful to have you on the show.
Speaker 4: I want to go into those strategics. You know, we've
Speaker 4: done a lot on this program about Amazon robotics in
Speaker 4: the warehouse Samsung, Like, I guess, is the opportunity down
Speaker 4: the line in the manufacturing context, what are you kind
Speaker 4: of hoping for there?
Speaker 13: Yeah, so we realized a few years ago we can
Speaker 13: make an American made robot that's easier to use, more affordable,
Speaker 13: and most importantly, capable of performing many more tasks than
Speaker 13: other robots out there. Most robots today they have this
Speaker 13: rigid programming that's it's sort of like code, something resembles code.
Speaker 13: And so we're focused on this new paradigm where you
Speaker 13: just demonstrate the task you want the robots perform, and
Speaker 13: then it can learn how to perform that from the
Speaker 13: demonstration autonomously.
Speaker 4: So we're just showing some pictures of the technology we're
Speaker 4: talking about. We're not talking about humanoid robots. We're talking
Speaker 4: about cutting edge of robotic arms. Essentially, why is yours
Speaker 4: better than the rest? We've had some similar things on
Speaker 4: the show. Evan, Yeah, I.
Speaker 13: Think we don't need to create legs in a torso
Speaker 13: to make a huge impact. So our approach is we
Speaker 13: make a device and this device it's sort of like scissors,
Speaker 13: but it can grip instead of cutting, and you can
Speaker 13: show show how to assemble something, show how to prepare food,
Speaker 13: what have you, and it learns from that demonstration.
Speaker 4: And we think our approach with this device.
Speaker 13: It's a much quicker way to market than the humanoids,
Speaker 13: and it's going to make a really big impact and
Speaker 13: we can take it to market this year. We already
Speaker 13: are with with some really big customers.
Speaker 3: Look, how hard is this What sort of academic affiliations
Speaker 3: you having to have? How much are you having to
Speaker 3: push forward an innovation with the funding that you've got.
Speaker 3: This is now about hiring talent? Is it about expanding
Speaker 3: here in New York?
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's definitely it's it's definitely hard. We've got an
Speaker 13: amazing team, so they really get all the credit. But
Speaker 13: we've hired from places like Cruise, Waimo, Rivian, Meta, so
Speaker 13: we've got the best of the best on the team.
Speaker 13: We really think this can make a really big impact
Speaker 13: in the world, So that drives our team.
Speaker 4: And it's a lot of fun too.
Speaker 3: So I mean sped out the mission here because many
Speaker 3: who are working in manufacturing might be like, well, that's
Speaker 3: my job. So ultimately, what is the net positive outcome
Speaker 3: that you want from this business that drives all the
Speaker 3: people to want to leave Rivian and other key companies
Speaker 3: to come to you.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 13: Actually, we have industry stats show over the next few
Speaker 13: years a shortage of two million workers, so there's it's
Speaker 13: not so much replacing jobs as we have this huge shortage,
Speaker 13: and we really think that, you know, most of the
Speaker 13: products we buy are not made in the US, or
Speaker 13: many of them aren't, and so if we can bring
Speaker 13: back manufacturing that actually h jobs and it's better for
Speaker 13: national security, it's better for the environment to produce where
Speaker 13: we use the items, and these kinds of productivity boosts,
Speaker 13: they really lower the cost of food and other items
Speaker 13: for people who can't afford them the most. So we
Speaker 13: think it's really important work.
Speaker 4: They're can have a large positive impact.
Speaker 13: And you know, there's a huge shortage right now in
Speaker 13: job so I think people can can can rest assured.
Speaker 4: I've listened to Jensen Wong talk about the biggest opportunities
Speaker 4: to be unlocked by what's happening in large language models
Speaker 4: and robotics is front and center for him. What I
Speaker 4: find interesting is your scale and your your location in
Speaker 4: New York, So it talks me about building the company.
Speaker 4: Talent is the money you've raised enough walk us through
Speaker 4: the roadmap of the next couple of years.
Speaker 13: Yeah, we're we're bringing this to market this year in
Speaker 13: a big way. Talent is is I think this is
Speaker 13: like a really really fun other than being a TV
Speaker 13: anchor like you had. This is one of the most
Speaker 13: fun things you can work on right now in tech.
Speaker 13: So so it hasn't been that hard to attract amazing talent,
Speaker 13: and I think the mission oriented focus of the company
Speaker 13: helps to attract amazing talent as well. But we're going
Speaker 13: to continue to need amazing people. We've doubled our team
Speaker 13: in the last twelve months. Our robot orders have gone
Speaker 13: up twenty x in the last year, so we're really
Speaker 13: experiencing a lot of growth. We're trying to hire to
Speaker 13: handle the growth and the orders, and we're very excited
Speaker 13: about the future.
Speaker 4: Evan Bid, CEO Standard Box. Great to have you on
Speaker 4: the show.
Speaker 3: We just want to turn our attention to what President
Speaker 3: Biden is saying on the platform X just a few
Speaker 3: moments ago, he's posted that six weeks ago, I laid
Speaker 3: out a comprehensive framework for how to achieve a CEASEPAR
Speaker 3: and bring hostages home. Course talking about Israel Hamas, there's
Speaker 3: still work to do in these complex issues, but that
Speaker 3: framework is now agreed by both Israel and Hamas, and
Speaker 3: he says he's making progress and interesting use of course
Speaker 3: of the social media platform.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's been a big development this morning with in
Speaker 4: its relationship with the European Union. The European Union or
Speaker 4: the Commissioner has basically said that X is the first
Speaker 4: breacher of the Digital Services Act. I want to bring
Speaker 4: in Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner, who also has a column out
Speaker 4: today about Ex's video ambitions, that Kurt, you will have
Speaker 4: seen the ping pong on X in the last hour
Speaker 4: between Mask, Margaret ves Tierre Berton they explain what's happening please.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I actually haven't seen it this morning.
Speaker 11: Ed.
Speaker 14: I'm sorry to but you know, obviously there's Ex's doing
Speaker 14: a lot with the check marks. That was the big
Speaker 14: issue that Must started when he took over that he
Speaker 14: was saying, hey, you know, this is something that I'm
Speaker 14: going to charge for versus something I'm going to give
Speaker 14: away for free. I imagine you know that there's some
Speaker 14: issues with how they're doling these things out to people.
Speaker 14: And obviously they'd run a foul of some EU regulations before,
Speaker 14: so it doesn't surprise me that they're running into this again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean across the board though, this is something
Speaker 3: that it al must wants to be able to be
Speaker 3: bringing backgrounds, bringing back the talk of driving forward revenue
Speaker 3: and people's confidence. How is he doing that with video
Speaker 3: at the moment?
Speaker 8: Cerve?
Speaker 14: Yeah, well you may remember that at CEES a few
Speaker 14: months ago, they said that they were going to really
Speaker 14: push into this high quality, professionally produced video shows, and
Speaker 14: they announced a bunch of partners, you know, Don Lemon,
Speaker 14: Tulcy Gabbert, Jim Rome, And there was this big idea
Speaker 14: that X was going to sort of be like a
Speaker 14: second TV, right you would watch these highly produced things
Speaker 14: on your phone. Well, six months later, a lot of
Speaker 14: this just hasn't materialized. You know, we've talked about what
Speaker 14: happened with Don Lemon that shows fizzled out, Tulcy Gabbard
Speaker 14: has not posted any show as yet. Jim Rome is
Speaker 14: posting shows, but I watched yesterday there were no ads
Speaker 14: running alongside these shows. So it just feels like this
Speaker 14: big push, this big cell to rebrand X as this
Speaker 14: video destination, in my opinion, seems to really be struggling
Speaker 14: right now. Six months into this process.
Speaker 4: The question is Eyebels right, So elon really emphasis on
Speaker 4: emphasises this data point of user seconds, how many seconds
Speaker 4: user ivles are on the platform. If you go to
Speaker 4: a tweet, you see the tweet views, and if you
Speaker 4: posted the video you get separate data. Is there any
Speaker 4: confidence from advertisers that it is actually being watched if
Speaker 4: you put video content to the platform.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean this debate between views and you know
Speaker 14: someone actually sitting there and consuming it has made a
Speaker 14: big issue for years, and not just on x right.
Speaker 14: We've talked about this with Meta before Instagram as well,
Speaker 14: and so I think the issue and what I put
Speaker 14: in the column this morning, what I heard from a
Speaker 14: source is that part of the reason these shows aren't
Speaker 14: really getting made is that they are having issues with
Speaker 14: advertiser demand, right, And if people are sitting there throwing
Speaker 14: money at you, those projects usually get made. But the
Speaker 14: fact that they're not seeing that interest from advertisers is
Speaker 14: sort of a sign that, you know, the views probably
Speaker 14: aren't there, right, because advertisers are going to want to
Speaker 14: go where they can get eyeballs. So I don't know
Speaker 14: the specific numbers behind this, but usually ed as you know,
Speaker 14: if there's an audience, there are advertisers that want to
Speaker 14: reach them, and the fact that there's not that interest
Speaker 14: right now is sort of a telling sign.
Speaker 3: How are things internally? Alex right now.
Speaker 4: Kurt, Yeah, I.
Speaker 14: Mean I think it's tough because there's a lot of
Speaker 14: cost cutting still going on. You know, there was this
Speaker 14: big push obviously when Elon took over. There were a
Speaker 14: bunch of layoffs, a bunch of cost cuts. Things sort
Speaker 14: of settled down, but earlier this year they brought back
Speaker 14: in Steve Davis, who was the head of Boring Company,
Speaker 14: and he was sort of the guy who did the
Speaker 14: initial cost cuts when Elon took over, and he sort.
Speaker 2: Of relooked at the books. He relooked.
Speaker 14: There were some layoffs that happened again. So I do
Speaker 14: think that they're at this place where they're sort of
Speaker 14: still trying to level set the business. And you know,
Speaker 14: it's now been coming up on two years. It's not
Speaker 14: a super encouraging sign when they're still out there really
Speaker 14: slashing costs two years into this new venture bloom Vers.
Speaker 4: Kurt Wagner, thank you, and I apologize. I didn't mean
Speaker 4: to put you on the spot. Actually, since we've been
Speaker 4: on air, Elon Musk has been posting on it at
Speaker 4: EU officials. The short of the story is the Elon
Speaker 4: Musk social media platform X has been hit with a
Speaker 4: warning from the EU for deceiving users into engaging with
Speaker 4: potentially harmful content, which prompted that little back and forth
Speaker 4: with Elon Musk himself on X The Blocks regulators say
Speaker 4: they're worried that blue check marks for verified accounts are
Speaker 4: tricking users into believing these are safe when quote there
Speaker 4: is evidence of motivated malicious actors abusing the check mark system.
Speaker 4: I just say, Caro. I wrote to Linda Yakarino this morning,
Speaker 4: along with some other staff at S and Not, offered
Speaker 4: them the opportunity to come on the show to respond
Speaker 4: to the EU's prelim warning, but no response.
Speaker 3: Maybe my Monday meanwhile, Maybe got a lot to pass
Speaker 3: over this weekend. You and I have got a pretty
Speaker 3: integral soccer stroke football match to watch. But for now,
Speaker 3: that does it for this edition of Blue Med Technology.
Speaker 4: The Euros and Copper America. I'm excited for Monday. It
Speaker 4: was a shorter week for us. We missed two days
Speaker 4: of shows because of fed chair Pal. But there was
Speaker 4: so much happening in the show, so recap on the podcast.
Speaker 4: You know exactly where to find it, Apple, Spotify, iHeart,
Speaker 4: and the Bloomberg platforms. Good luck to England for those
Speaker 4: of you that are supporting, and good luck to all
Speaker 4: the other teams playing this weekend. This is Bloomberg Technology