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Speaker 1: There's so much that one person can do. People discredit

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Speaker 1: themselves and they minimize the value they have so much.

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Speaker 1: One person can really change the course of things if

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Speaker 1: they're ambitious enough, if that's their calling.

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Speaker 2: If you will, welcome to Back forty.

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Speaker 3: I'm J Koefer, and this week we are diving into

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Speaker 3: a larger question about what can one single person do

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Speaker 3: to make the next twenty five years of hunting better

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Speaker 3: than the last. If you're listening to this, obviously you

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Speaker 3: want the world of white tal hunting to improve. And

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Speaker 3: so I asked all of the folks we've been talking

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Speaker 3: to for the last eight weeks this specific question, and

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping it sparks some inspiration and you'll pick up

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Speaker 3: a couple of things that will allow you to maybe

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Speaker 3: be a positive influence on the grander picture of white

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Speaker 3: tail hunting, something that we're all passionate about. If you're

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Speaker 3: listening to this podcast, as you know, Back forty is

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Speaker 3: brought to you by land dot com, the leading online

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Speaker 3: real estate marketplace to find your perfect rural, recreational, agricultural,

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Speaker 3: or hunting properties here in the US. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 3: and kick things off with Skip Sly on his perspective.

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Speaker 3: Skip has been one guy that has been very instrumental

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Speaker 3: of protecting Iowa, making it while remain one of the

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Speaker 3: best dates from just the simple back of keeping strong

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Speaker 3: legislation for residents. And I think that if Skip can

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Speaker 3: do it, and I know he would say this too,

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Speaker 3: you can do it. And here's what he has to say.

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Speaker 3: What can one hunter do to make the next twenty

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Speaker 3: five years of hunting better than the last? So not

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Speaker 3: collectively just one guy?

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Speaker 1: Oh uh, there's so much that one person can do,

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Speaker 1: and there's so people discredit themselves and they minimize the

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Speaker 1: value they have so much that one person can really

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Speaker 1: change the course of things if they're ambitious enough, if

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Speaker 1: that's their calling, if you will, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there's a few dynamics. Even at a basic level. Somebody's like, well, dude,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like crazy ambitious or I'm just the regular dude.

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Speaker 1: But that's all that. We're all just regular dudes. It's

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Speaker 1: just like, where do you want to fit into this? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's just say that the milder ambitious type

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Speaker 1: that are guys that are like I just kind of

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Speaker 1: coast through life, which is fine. I'm not making a

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Speaker 1: job at all, but I just kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go to extremes. Well, a minor

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Speaker 1: impact would be like not cliche again, but like take

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Speaker 1: kids out, get some kids involved. We need more kids hunting,

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Speaker 1: We need more kids taking the sport up.

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Speaker 2: And it sounds.

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Speaker 1: Cliche to say that, but it's actually true. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't want I wish there was less hunters. You don't

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Speaker 1: wish there was more less kids that had opportunity at

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Speaker 1: this Maybe you wish that there were less middle aged

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Speaker 1: knucklehead hunters that were just there to take that ruin

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Speaker 1: the resource that we're just idiots or disrespectful or that

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Speaker 1: kind of sour you on the sport because they are

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Speaker 1: idiots and there's you know, bad apples in every group.

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Speaker 1: But you don't want genuine kids with a passion for

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Speaker 1: the outdoors not to hunt. So at a basic level,

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Speaker 1: you can change that. You can impact, Like one person

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Speaker 1: could take you know, twenty kids out through the next

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Speaker 1: decade and make an impact on twenty kids' lives, which

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Speaker 1: they'll impact other people later. So there's one dynamic that

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Speaker 1: can change hunting. You know, getting involved in the regulations

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Speaker 1: could be as simple as who's doing anything for regulations

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Speaker 1: in my state, and you find out who that is,

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Speaker 1: how can I help? And I email into my legislator

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Speaker 1: because that makes a huge difference. I can actually speak

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Speaker 1: in public that I I'll go to a subcommittee meeting

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Speaker 1: at the capital of my state. I will show up.

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Speaker 1: And then you might be the case where you're like,

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Speaker 1: who's the group that does this for my state? Oh,

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Speaker 1: there isn't one. Well, you could be that person that

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Speaker 1: forms that. And the way you're going to form that

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Speaker 1: is be like, yeah, I do have six friends with

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Speaker 1: a common goal, and maybe one of them is that

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Speaker 1: super ambitious type and he'll kind of run with it

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Speaker 1: and he knows how to start a business, or he

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Speaker 1: knows how to you know, manage things and growth things,

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Speaker 1: or run an organization or get how to get a

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Speaker 1: group of people together that can get along with a

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Speaker 1: common goal and just support them or be involved.

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Speaker 2: So so you could be the guy.

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Speaker 1: That's just emailing your legislators and I'll take the time

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Speaker 1: to email all of them on these issues that come up,

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Speaker 1: keep up with the bills I've always been.

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Speaker 2: I'll chime into Iowa like I'll pay attention.

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Speaker 3: I'll send the emails out and I'm always shocked by

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Speaker 3: the amount of replies I actually get and like you

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Speaker 3: whoa you actually an assistant or whoever, someone actually read

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Speaker 3: my email because it wasn't just received.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Yes, that's always shocked me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so think about if anybody wanted to educate themselves

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Speaker 1: a little bit, think about what Iowa was doing to

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Speaker 1: defend against the special ene that want to exploit our resource,

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Speaker 1: they want to ruin it, that want to just kill

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Speaker 1: all the deer. We have groups and a growing army

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Speaker 1: of hunters who are like, no, this is wrong. You

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Speaker 1: aren't going to destroy or say you're not going to

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Speaker 1: exploit it for your little special interest or exploit it

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Speaker 1: or short term benefit so you can make a little money.

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Speaker 1: Not happening in our state. You want to do that

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Speaker 1: stuff in Illinois. That's that's how it's done there. It's

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Speaker 1: not happening in Iowa. So we're run by common sense

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Speaker 1: in Iowa. And if somebody says, well, I want to

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Speaker 1: take this to the most extreme ambitious level, run your

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Speaker 1: state like Iowa. Get it, get an organization in place,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it can't be one guy that but

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Speaker 1: you might be that one guy that forms the organization,

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Speaker 1: but that organization will start out with like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got twelve guys on board. One of them's good

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Speaker 1: talking to people, one of them's good with accounting, one

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Speaker 1: of them is a lawyer, one of them runs a business.

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Speaker 1: They all have these different skills and like and I

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Speaker 1: would be like that. Like I I try and take

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Speaker 1: on everything myself with whether it's the farm, and I

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Speaker 1: realize I can't.

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Speaker 2: There's certain things I'm not good at.

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Speaker 1: Know what you're not good at, And I have things

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Speaker 1: that I'm not good at, well, I know, like within

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Speaker 1: an organization, Like I know, I have kind of an

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Speaker 1: intense personality and I I you know, I might have

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Speaker 1: to even dial that back at times when I get

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Speaker 1: really fired up. But I want somebody a part of

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Speaker 1: the organization who's kind of like chill and like the

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Speaker 1: guy that can be like the calm rational and not

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Speaker 1: that I'm irrational, but you know, just different personalities. I

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Speaker 1: think diversity of personality is huge. And just realize with

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Speaker 1: any organization that people start, if it falls on one

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Speaker 1: guy's shoulders, it will not succeed because something could happen

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Speaker 1: to that one guy. You know, it could be anything

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Speaker 1: from that guy dies to he gets burnt out to, hey, dude,

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Speaker 1: I just had you know, my wife just had triplets,

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Speaker 1: and now i'm you know, I'm trying baseball or something,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just so busy. Life happens and people get busy.

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Speaker 1: So it has to be like at least twelve guys

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Speaker 1: that form this organization, and you know there and maybe

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Speaker 1: three of them like go mia for six months, and

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Speaker 1: you bring them back in and you constantly grow it.

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Speaker 1: So you're like, now there's not twelve, Now there's fifty,

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Speaker 1: and at least somebody's contributing at some level, and just

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Speaker 1: create an organization that can just mimic or rival all

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Speaker 1: the organizations that most people don't even understand exist in

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Speaker 1: your state to do everything against your resource, everything against

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Speaker 1: your regulations. I mean there is in your state. I

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Speaker 1: don't care who's lessening wherever they are. There is organizations,

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Speaker 1: lobbying groups, special interests, companies, manufacturers that have systems in

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Speaker 1: place to exploit your resource, to ruin it, to screw

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Speaker 1: up the regulations, or just to make just dumb choices

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Speaker 1: on regulations. And they need a counterway. And in most

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Speaker 1: of these states they've never had a counterweight. So if

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Speaker 1: you want to make the most difference, fix your own state,

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Speaker 1: form an organization.

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Speaker 2: That's very simple.

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Speaker 1: We're talking like, how much funding would we need if

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Speaker 1: we were really rocking in my state filling the blank.

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Speaker 4: Illinois, Illinois?

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Speaker 1: You would need more money because that system so corrupt

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Speaker 1: in Illinois. Really, you'd probably need like you need to

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Speaker 1: hire a lobbyists. You need to have dozens of guys

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Speaker 1: form a group and grow that group with membership, and

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Speaker 1: you'd need to have a budget of like maybe one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year. One hundred thousand dollars a year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: most you guys in Illinois, I know a gazillion people

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Speaker 1: in Illinois are like, yeah, that new Playeri's fourth heater

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Speaker 1: was fifty grand. My hunting lease was seventy five dollars

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Speaker 1: an acre. Yeah, I spent eight grand on this hunting

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Speaker 1: ground right here.

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Speaker 2: That is okay, there's.

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Speaker 1: That amount of money, especially in Illinois. It's not a

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Speaker 1: huge sum. One hundred thousand bucks, a lot of members

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Speaker 1: and a lobbyist where all the money goes to fighting

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Speaker 1: the cause and stays in Illinois, and everybody donates their time,

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Speaker 1: but you work collectively could start to make a difference

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Speaker 1: in Illinois. You could actually fix that state with that

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Speaker 1: simple recipe. Put in a pot, Put twelve hardcore guys

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Speaker 1: with knowledge, passion, and skills, throw one hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: with them. Hire the right lobbyists. Five years from now,

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Speaker 1: two years from now. I mean, you can start making progress.

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Speaker 1: But that system has been flushed down the toilet for

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Speaker 1: so long you're trying to reverse that. Right, it's not

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Speaker 1: going to happen overnight, and nothing's a guarantee, and human nature, like,

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Speaker 1: you can't get frustrated, you can't get give up. If

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Speaker 1: you have a dozen guys, you're not going to agree

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Speaker 1: on everything. You have to be mature enough to be like,

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Speaker 1: we don't agree on these things, that's fine. There's three

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Speaker 1: issues out of twenty we don't agree on, and some

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Speaker 1: one guy in the group might be like, well, if

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Speaker 1: you have that view, I'm out. You know, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take my ball and go home. You can't have guys

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Speaker 1: like that. You can't or you have to be mature

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Speaker 1: enough not to do that. And if you do that,

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Speaker 1: that's how these states will get fixed. And this is

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Speaker 1: happening in several states, and several of these states will

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Speaker 1: get fixed over time, like a small minority of them.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we're so many of these states are

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Speaker 1: going to have to hit rock bottom and you know,

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Speaker 1: just collapse in themselves.

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Speaker 2: Before they improve.

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Speaker 1: But there's some other ones that like, hey, the hunters

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Speaker 1: could grat could get it before it did hit rock

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Speaker 1: bottom and start to just counteract all the bad garbage

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Speaker 1: that's gone through their state for just decades and they

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Speaker 1: can turn it around. I mean, my my loose goal

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Speaker 1: if you will, if you're like, hey, you know ambitiously,

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Speaker 1: because I always think of things to the extremes, like nursery,

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Speaker 1: I do everything, everything's big, into the extreme, everything I do,

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Speaker 1: or I just don't take it on. But like, if

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Speaker 1: somebody's like, what do you want to do with hunting?

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Speaker 1: I want to make hunting better across the country. I

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Speaker 1: want it to be a better experience for kids, for

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Speaker 1: the next generation that come after me.

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Speaker 2: That's my goal.

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Speaker 1: I want to impact the hunting world, you know, until

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Speaker 1: my dying day. I want to get more kids involved.

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Speaker 1: I want to leave the hunting experience better than what

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Speaker 1: I found it better. And I have a real concern

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Speaker 1: that you know, in the last twenty years, we've gone

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Speaker 1: in the wrong direction in a lot of ways, in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, and I want to reverse that.

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Speaker 1: I want to see that reverse and you go. Anybody,

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Speaker 1: anybody might say, what's in it for you? What's your

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Speaker 1: motivation there? I want to give back. I want I

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Speaker 1: want kids to have great experiences. I think of the

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Speaker 1: kid that was me living in this in the city,

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Speaker 1: in a town with you know, I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of maniac friends that would probably that probably got into

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Speaker 1: bad stuff later, and all of a sudden, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I found this little thing outside of town driving on

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Speaker 1: my bike of the outdoors and farms and nature and

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Speaker 1: then hunting, and I got into that and it was

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Speaker 1: amazing experience.

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Speaker 2: And then my brothers the same thing.

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Speaker 1: They got into it too, and we were all city

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Speaker 1: boys and nobody hunted, nobody in our family hunted, and

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Speaker 1: we found that and it's like, oh, it was amazing

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Speaker 1: and still like I mean, I can think about it,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like yesterday. But the nostalgia of that,

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Speaker 1: like getting into the outdoors, and I still like it

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Speaker 1: to this day, like that, I still love being out

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Speaker 1: there like that. And how I want that.

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Speaker 2: For the kids.

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Speaker 1: They deserve that, the kids, especially they deserve a quality experience,

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Speaker 1: and they deserve for us hunters with some maturity who

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Speaker 1: understand these dynamics to fight for them, to leave this

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Speaker 1: a better space for them. When we know we're doing

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Speaker 1: these things that are some of the time, that are selfish,

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Speaker 1: that are ruining in the sports. Our duty to stop

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Speaker 1: all this crap that's going through and fix it for

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Speaker 1: these kids. It's our freaking duty. And I want to

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Speaker 1: see that and society will be better for it. These

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Speaker 1: kids will be better for it. And if somebody says,

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Speaker 1: like I said before, I'm going to repeat myself. But

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Speaker 1: if somebody says, well, I want there to be less hunters, Okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: the irresponsible, disrespectful hunters that are just there to take fine,

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Speaker 1: I could even maybe agree with that. I want less

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Speaker 1: of those, But I want more of these kids to

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Speaker 1: get out of maybe bad situations, have a good influence

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Speaker 1: in their life and have the experiences that I have.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want them to get into it now

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Speaker 1: where they're like it sucks so bad. I don't even

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Speaker 1: want to do this, Like, yeah, I tried that hunting thing.

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Speaker 2: It sucks.

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Speaker 5: It was lame.

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Speaker 1: They just threw me on a corn pile and you know,

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Speaker 1: wait until the cell cam went off and I shot

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Speaker 1: it with my cross. But I'm not going to stick

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Speaker 1: with it. I want them to have a good quality experience.

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Speaker 1: But like, this was fun, this was challenging, it was hard,

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Speaker 1: but it was rewarding, and it was a good quality

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Speaker 1: system and I actually had access to good quality land.

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Speaker 1: All these dynamics want to leave this better for as.

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Speaker 2: Next up we have Bill Winki.

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Speaker 3: Bill has seen the sport of whitetail hunting change, or

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Speaker 3: I guess the world of whitetails change over the last

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Speaker 3: twenty five years. Here's what he has to say, as

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Speaker 3: just one guy that can improve it for the next

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Speaker 3: twenty five years, what can every hunter do to make

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Speaker 3: the next twenty five years of deer hunting better than

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Speaker 3: the last twenty five.

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Speaker 6: You've got to lock up.

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Speaker 7: The opportunities, you know, and that's you won't necessarily make

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Speaker 7: it better, but let's put it this way. You'll you'll

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Speaker 7: guarantee that you're still in the game. You need to

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Speaker 7: align yourself in some way with a landowner, whether that

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Speaker 7: means you are that landowner or you know. Usually what

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Speaker 7: I've found is that if you work besides somebody you

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Speaker 7: know consistently, they usually don't stab me in the back,

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Speaker 7: you know. So if you can find a relation ship

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Speaker 7: where you're helping somebody out and you're doing a lot

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Speaker 7: of work and they're giving you hunting access, you know

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Speaker 7: as a result of that, that's a pretty strong position.

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Speaker 7: If all you're doing is writing them a check. Not

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Speaker 7: that that doesn't, you know, make some difference. It's not

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Speaker 7: nearly the same. It's easy to on a business transaction

295
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Speaker 7: and say, well, you know, sorry, but this guy you

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Speaker 7: know who's going to write me a bigger check. So

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Speaker 7: you have to be a lot more actively involved and

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Speaker 7: say with maintaining the opportunities that you have, ideally you

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Speaker 7: would buy. I'm not a huge fan of leasing. It

300
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Speaker 7: just feels too temporary to me. You do a lot

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Speaker 7: of important work to build up the value of that property,

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Speaker 7: and then there's you know, unless you've got something written

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Speaker 7: into a contract, they could just lease it to somebody

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Speaker 7: for more that they could turn around and sell it

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Speaker 7: because now you've done all this work and you've proven

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Speaker 7: this track record or this piece of land.

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Speaker 6: Doesn't mean everybody's going to do that.

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Speaker 7: But that's the only downside I saw the biggest downside

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Speaker 7: I saw with leasing. I think I'd rather own something

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Speaker 7: and have permission through however method you can get it.

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Speaker 7: You know, like I said, working working for it, it

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Speaker 7: just seems.

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Speaker 6: To pay off really well.

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Speaker 7: And now you or you just got to get really

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Speaker 7: good at winning those states that have a lot of

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Speaker 7: public land. I mean, that's the other option too, is

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Speaker 7: you know the Western States. There's some really good hunting

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Speaker 7: in these Western states, and you know, you could become

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Speaker 7: an expert at that, and that would be that would

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Speaker 7: probably prove to be as usequal as anything else you

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Speaker 7: can do. But you can't assume. You can't assume status quo.

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Speaker 7: I guess that's the bottom line. Yeah, be looking forward

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Speaker 7: and saying this isn't if I don't own it, if

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Speaker 7: I don't control it, this is temporary. So I need

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Speaker 7: to do something in order to ensure the next twenty

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Speaker 7: five years.

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Speaker 6: And you know that's why I started buying land. You know,

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Speaker 6: I didn't.

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Speaker 7: I love land, you know, but I didn't buy it

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Speaker 7: because I thought it would be a great investment.

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Speaker 6: I didn't. I didn't think it would. It turned out

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Speaker 6: that it was, but you know, I didn't.

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Speaker 7: Think that it would be. I just wanted to know

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Speaker 7: I had a place to hunt. Yeah, and then it

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Speaker 7: just kind of led to a whole lifestyle after that

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Speaker 7: that you got to do something. You can't just sit

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Speaker 7: back and assume that it's going to work out, because

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Speaker 7: it won't, not even twenty five years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what with the farm you've been working on recently

340
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Speaker 3: and doing a lot of a lot of heavy lifting,

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Speaker 3: a lot of heavy projects. What is the motivation for

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Speaker 3: that looking decades away rather than you know, next season,

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Speaker 3: because you're doing a lot of projects that take a

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Speaker 3: long time to have, you know, major responses or positive returns.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: For me, the fun on this farm is, uh, there

347
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 7: weren't that many deer to start with, you know. So

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Speaker 7: it's the first time I've ever owned land where there

349
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,399
Speaker 7: weren't very many deer on it. So I thought I

350
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 7: can take this thing from scratch and do it right

351
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Speaker 7: where it's just not a constant war. I'm trying to

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Speaker 7: get my numbers down every year, you know. I saw,

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Speaker 7: you know, I need to keep the foot my foot

354
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Speaker 7: on the brake. But that's not the number one management goal,

355
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Speaker 7: whereas almost everything else I've owned, it seems like the

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Speaker 7: number one management goal is killing up those over here.

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Speaker 6: But you know, now I can do the habitat first,

358
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Speaker 6: you know where gosh, the deer that.

359
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 7: Are on my farm now, I mean, they don't hardly

360
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 7: come out of the woods because the habitat is so

361
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 7: good and there's.

362
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Speaker 6: So much food in the timber that they're just completely different.

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Speaker 6: They act completely different from deer that I've bunted in

364
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Speaker 6: the past that are more stressed.

365
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Speaker 7: Because there's a lot of deer, you're competing more and

366
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Speaker 7: you've got to be the first one to get to

367
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 7: the clover or whatever. These dear don't have any of

368
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 7: that urgency. As a result, they're a little bit tougher

369
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 7: to hunt. But they're just maybe not temper to hunt.

370
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 7: They're just different. It's it's a different style of hunting

371
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Speaker 7: them what I'm used to because I'm used to deer

372
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Speaker 7: that are more on your stress or you can get

373
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Speaker 7: them out of the open and keep your impact really

374
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 7: low because you're just coming and going in open areas.

375
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 7: These dear don't do that. I don't come out. But

376
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Speaker 7: the whole thing is like, Okay, if we do this perfectly.

377
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Speaker 7: I remember reading doctor Brentwood's book a long time ago.

378
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 7: I've got it in the bookshelf here I s happened,

379
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 7: I think goes white Tail Management one oh one or

380
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 7: something like that, and he said that if you want

381
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Speaker 7: to grow the very biggest possible bucks, you've got to

382
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 7: have a lower density and you've got to have the

383
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Speaker 7: highest possible plane of forage, lowest stress possible. So I thought, Okay,

384
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Speaker 7: here's my chance. You know, on this farm, I have

385
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 7: the opportunity to see what can be done because most

386
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Speaker 7: of the people who are killing really big deer that

387
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 7: you know, have farms of one deer on and you know,

388
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 7: I could we could go through the list and yeah,

389
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,719
Speaker 7: they're killing big deer, but it'd be fun to know

390
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 7: what those deer would look like if there wasn't that competition.

391
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Speaker 6: You know, what is possible. And I'm a few years

392
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 6: away from knowing.

393
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 7: That, because we're just starting to get those age classes

394
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 7: filled now. But I think that's that's probably my number

395
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 7: one reason for it. I want to see, you know,

396
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Speaker 7: before I die, what's possible. It'll be nice if the

397
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 7: neighborhood was you know, if I controlled more, because you're

398
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,360
Speaker 7: still going to get some attrition, you know, from the

399
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 7: deer leaveing and getting killed someplace else. But at least

400
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 7: I can find out on a propert size that I.

401
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 6: Have what can be done. Because this is the perfect

402
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 6: setup right now. I mean, it's never going to get better,

403
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 6: you know.

404
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 7: As far as like the density, you know what I control,

405
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 7: the type of train that I've got, the amount of

406
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 7: food that I've got, you know, what is possible? I

407
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 7: guess is the question. And you know, I might be

408
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 7: humbled by it, and I become to a conclusion that

409
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 7: you know that sothern I have a farm with too

410
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 7: many deer on was better, you know, But it'd be

411
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 7: fun to find out this is going to be This

412
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 7: will be the perfect fo when I'm that that's I guess.

413
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 7: That's what I'm saying, is as perfect as one man

414
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 7: can make it.

415
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well that'll be fun. When do you feel

416
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: that you get to do a check in to know

417
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 3: if you did the right.

418
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 7: Thing five years in So this is year four, okay,

419
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 7: you know, I think it takes five years. So next year,

420
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 7: after next season, that's when you know, I have a

421
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 7: really good feel for how effective this was. It continues

422
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 7: to get better. You know, we didn't show all the

423
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 7: ship and outmuchs that we found, you know, there's you

424
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 7: just don't necessarily want to draw a lot of attention,

425
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 7: you know, But it's every year it's seemed better, you know.

426
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 7: It's just a question of how much better can it get.

427
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 7: And we'll start to see that in two more seasons

428
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 7: after the this is twenty twenty five, after the twenty

429
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 7: twenty six season, check in with me again, and then

430
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 7: I'll be able to tell you whether this worked or

431
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 7: didn't work.

432
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if it does work, I think you'll

433
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: challenge a lot of philosophies of and also and also

434
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 3: provide a lot more patience for people who want instant

435
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 3: return of or like instant gratification of we did this.

436
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 3: One season later, it's forty percent better, And maybe there's

437
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 3: projects like that. But also, you know, if it was

438
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 3: a two out of ten from when he started, and

439
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: five years later it's an eight and a half or nine,

440
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 3: it'll be really interesting see what the perception of that is.

441
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 6: Well, and that's kind of what I may look forward.

442
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 7: It's kind of funny too, because in the process of

443
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 7: doing that, everybody kind of rates you off, you know,

444
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 7: because you're just not killing lots of big dear anymore,

445
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 7: and people are thinking I'll kind of lost his time.

446
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 7: Sure he doesn't know what he's doing or whatever, and

447
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 7: there's some of that, but I'm getting older, might touch

448
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 7: fin there's more to it than that. This is uh,

449
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 7: there's a method to the madness, you know, And someday

450
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 7: we'll know. I'll either be you know, smiling, you know,

451
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 7: off into the sunset, or everybody be laughing at me

452
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 7: as I go off into the sunset. But one way

453
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 7: it'll be kind of a cool experitedness to see what's possible.

454
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 3: Next up we have Thomas Milsner. Thomas is very in

455
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 3: tune of trying to do what's best by the land,

456
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 3: and his perspective is a little bit more focused on that. So,

457
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 3: without further ado, here's what Thomas Millsna.

458
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: Has to say.

459
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 3: As one guy, one guy listening to this, you as

460
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 3: one guy, me as one guy, what can every hunter

461
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 3: do to make the next twenty five years of deer

462
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: hunting better than the last twenty five?

463
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 8: Both there's so much, but to focus your attention on

464
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 8: the concert aspect. I think it's the absolute most important,

465
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 8: and by that don't buy into the gimmick side of

466
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 8: the industry. Right the hunting and white tail industry is

467
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 8: a fantastic thing, but it's also consuming itself in regards

468
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 8: to focusing too much on this one resource without understanding

469
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 8: the consequences that these other resources are facing. So we

470
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 8: focus on the conservation side of things, focus on that

471
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 8: holistic approach, Right, what can I do to improve this

472
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 8: habitat to make things better for all of these things,

473
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 8: You're gonna have significantly better deer hunting and ensure that

474
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 8: it sticks around. But right now we focus too much

475
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 8: on the deer, then all these other things start to

476
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 8: fade away, and pretty soon all we're going to have

477
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 8: is deer and we're ultimately gonna have to farm them

478
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 8: because we have to provide them with every element that

479
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 8: they need to survive just to keep them going. And

480
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 8: that's not how I want to deer hunt, right, I

481
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 8: want that nature experience. So I think everyone's going to

482
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 8: be a little bit different. I'm sure with the questions

483
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 8: that you get, but are the responses that you get.

484
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 8: But for me, the best thing that we can do

485
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 8: to ensure deer hunting is around for the foreseeable future

486
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 8: wherever really is what we want. Right, But right now,

487
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 8: we need to focus on the immediate problems we face, yeah, exactly,

488
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 8: and make it better than the last twenty five, which

489
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 8: I think we absolutely can do. Is we need to

490
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 8: focus on the habitat and these ecosystems that actually produce

491
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 8: a deer, and also focus on quality over quantity. Right again,

492
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 8: we're not farmers, we're not livestock producers. If I'm a

493
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 8: live stock producer, I'm trying really hard to grow the

494
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 8: biggest animal that I can in the shortest amount of time.

495
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 8: I still want that animal to be healthy, and I

496
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 8: still want my practices that I follow to be good

497
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 8: for the land to ensure that I can run that

498
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 8: animal on the land year in and year out for

499
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 8: as long as possible. It's kind of the same thing,

500
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 8: except we're not trying to make money off of it.

501
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 8: We're trying to build experiences, right, We're trying to recreate

502
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 8: with the situation. So we really need to focus on

503
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 8: the resource itself and what it provides to us and

504
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 8: keep that resource happy, keep those ecosystems happy and healthy

505
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 8: so that it can keep providing that resource to us,

506
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 8: which is the recreation, the food, those experiences, all those

507
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 8: memories that come with it.

508
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: Do you think the importance of private land ties into

509
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: the success of the next twenty five years of hunting

510
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 3: because you mentioned handling the habitat and where most activity

511
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 3: for habitat work, good, bad, and different is on private

512
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 3: land one percent.

513
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 8: I've said this before, actually, I think I said it

514
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 8: on the Wired to Hunt podcasts one time that I truly,

515
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 8: truly believe that land owning hunters, all hunters, but especially

516
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 8: the land owning hunters, have the ability to make a massive, massive,

517
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 8: positive impact in the environmental side of things. Literally think

518
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 8: that they could have the impact that'll save the planet.

519
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: I mean when you take all the private.

520
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 8: Land and the fact that we have control over that

521
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 8: might not always have the time or the money, but

522
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 8: at least you can stop things from happening, stop habitat loss,

523
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 8: stop development in those areas as much as possible, right

524
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 8: slow play, so, you know, slow this down so we

525
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 8: can turn the ship around. Right now, we're just constantly

526
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 8: trading out native habitat for invasive habitat, altered low production habitat,

527
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 8: whether it's you know, a wood lot that gets logged

528
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 8: and regenerates. All invasives because of a lack of management

529
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 8: and lack of fire, a lack of animals whatever it

530
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 8: might be. Or it's a prairie that gets turned into

531
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 8: a farm field and now it's just monocropped in a cycle,

532
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 8: which you know, maybe it's providing food during part of

533
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 8: the year but not a whole lot the rest of

534
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 8: the year. Or maybe it's an area you know, mixed

535
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 8: habitat doesn't matter, that's now cleared and there's a housing

536
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 8: development or one house with a lawn. You know, that's

537
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 8: a it's a big thing. It goes full circle. You know,

538
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 8: if you're a hunter and you're truly a conservationist and

539
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 8: you've got a five acre lawn at your house, you're

540
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 8: maybe part of the problem more than part of the solution.

541
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 4: You know.

542
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 8: It's different if you know, you're the attraction of the

543
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 8: neighborhood and all the kids are coming down and playing ball, Like,

544
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 8: I don't want to take that away from you by

545
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 8: any means. But if you literally just have a lawn

546
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 8: because you like looking at a mode bond, you can

547
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 8: put that back into habitat which is going to provide

548
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 8: refugea or refuge for all sorts of beneficial animals, you know,

549
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 8: depending on the scale, depending on the location. Maybe it's

550
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 8: just insects. Maybe it's insects and birds. Maybe it's more dear,

551
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 8: you know, whatever it might be. But looking at it

552
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 8: that way, where can I improve? Wherever I can improve,

553
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 8: I should improve as much as possible. And doing so,

554
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 8: you know that that gives us the option. Private landowners

555
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 8: absolutely have the ability to make a massive positive impact

556
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 8: if we take a step back and look at things

557
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 8: for what they are. On the other side of things,

558
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 8: public land is extremely important too, you know, so we

559
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 8: definitely need to ban together and fight the fights and

560
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 8: legislation and the people that are trying to take our

561
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 8: resources and turn them into a monetary gain for them

562
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 8: somewhere down the line. Sell us out right, we need

563
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 8: to stick together on that side of things. But you know,

564
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 8: I talk about goals all the time with all my clients, right,

565
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 8: and we talked about goals and becoming a great hunter

566
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 8: versus a good hunter.

567
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: And if you really really.

568
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 8: Are passionate about hunting and conservation, no matter what situation

569
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 8: you're in, a goal of yours should be to own

570
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 8: a piece of land that you can manage and improve

571
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 8: and create that refugee for wildlife in these native ecosystems.

572
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 8: And if hunting is your motivator for that, that's great,

573
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 8: But we can't lose focus on that resource as a

574
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 8: whole just because we want to kill a deer. You know,

575
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 8: we buy this property and put in all these soybeans

576
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 8: and whatnot and kind of neglect the other half of

577
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 8: it or whatever it might be. We're not really doing

578
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 8: the resource a service, just kind of providing a buffet

579
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 8: for farm animal, you know, scenario type like that. So

580
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 8: we're losing sight on that. But the big picture, we

581
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 8: got a band together. We got to protect the land

582
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 8: that we have and whether it's private or public, and

583
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 8: then we got to work towards improving it and manage

584
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 8: it for the foreseeable future.

585
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 3: Rolling in right into our next guest, we have Jeff Sturgis.

586
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: Let's just go right into it right now. Okay, you're

587
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: just one guy. You're just a guy listening to this.

588
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 3: What can every hunter do to make the next twenty

589
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 3: five years of deer hunting better than the last twenty

590
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: five years?

591
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 9: No, you could say, never get into uh rots, there's

592
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 9: a in never get into rots are so broad you know,

593
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 9: you're I'll give you a couple a couple of pointers

594
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 9: that to me that are so important, and this has

595
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 9: been proven to me over and over again. Let's say

596
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 9: in Minnesota, and I'm just gonna go off the top

597
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 9: of my head, we can shoot two to three bucks

598
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 9: a year in Minnesota depending on the tags in southeast

599
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 9: Minnesota and a cut in a CWD area. And I

600
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 9: want to say, in the last five seasons, I think

601
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 9: I've shot seven bucks six bucks.

602
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 5: I have not shot one of.

603
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 9: Them from the same stand. Had a history for twelve

604
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 9: years in Wisconsin out of property, and in that twelve

605
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 9: years shot seventeen bucks out of fourteen different stands. I

606
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 9: haven't added up the stats for the one in between

607
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 9: that I had for another eleven twelve years, whatever it was,

608
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 9: but similar statistics. Your favorite stand should be the next

609
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 9: stand you shoot a buck out of, not the last

610
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 9: stand hold no favorites. Has been many favorite stands that

611
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 9: I have not hunted the next year that I shot

612
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 9: a monster out of than the year before, because the

613
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 9: signs were not there that immature buck was in that area.

614
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 9: To hunt that it's one big thing. Always move, always change,

615
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 9: always be a part of the same structure overall of

616
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 9: your hunt planet. It might be that you're still hunting

617
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 9: the same area on public land, the same noll's, the

618
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 9: same benches, the same points. But you can't just go

619
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 9: in and say I'm gonna hunt the same oak tree

620
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 9: every single year and expect success. It's not going to

621
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 9: work those mature bucks that will work every three or

622
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 9: four five years. But I want it to work every

623
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 9: single year times one and a half. You know, I

624
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 9: want to experience more than one hundred percent success every

625
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 9: year if I have two tags. So that's one thing.

626
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 9: The other thing is you can kill them from the couch.

627
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 9: More time in the woods does not equal more hunting.

628
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 9: In fact, I would say I average a mature buck

629
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 9: every six sis somewhere in there, five to seven somewhere

630
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 9: around there. And so by being patient, and I'm not

631
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 9: saying being patient, November sixth is my favorite day to hunt.

632
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 9: So I'm gonna hunt November six in the middle of

633
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 9: my property every year. That's not being patient. That's just

634
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 9: waiting till a certain day. That's being stuck in a rut.

635
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 9: Why are you going into that stand in November six

636
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 9: What conditions led you to that? Why what pattern is

637
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 9: that as a buck showing that's there? That's not what

638
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 9: I'm saying I'm saying that it's September seventeenth, that your opener,

639
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 9: it's eighty five degrees. You have a buck pattern, you

640
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 9: know by summer scouting cameras, visual binoculars, sitting on a

641
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 9: fence row, watching that this buck is coming out to

642
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 9: a specific food source. Every single afternoon it's eighty five degrees,

643
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 9: thirty mile an hour winds. That is not the day

644
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 9: to go sit on that stand. Likely he might not

645
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 9: move because of the winds. He might not move because

646
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 9: of the heat. However, two days later, the high is

647
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 9: going to be sixty seven. There's a major storm coming

648
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 9: through that night the next day. I'm going to wait

649
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 9: those two days and I'm going to go in and hunt.

650
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 9: That's what I mean by being patient. Is doesn't mean

651
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 9: that you're waiting til November fifth. It means that when

652
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 9: the conditions are right, you're not sitting on the couch.

653
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 9: You're going in, but you're sitting on the couch the

654
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 9: rest of the time. You're making wise decisions, and you

655
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 9: could be making wise decisions all hunting season long. That

656
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 9: might mean that you choose a Friday on a three

657
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 9: day weekend instead of a Monday to hunt. If your

658
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 9: boss will let you do that. That might mean that

659
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 9: you choose a Sunday evening to sit in your favorite

660
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 9: stand instead of a Friday night, because you don't want

661
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 9: to bugger that stand up in poor conditions on a

662
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 9: Friday night, So you know, exercising those patients. I love

663
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 9: to hunt by the weather and choosing that time and

664
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 9: really point in methodically having a reason why am I

665
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 9: sitting here?

666
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 5: I want several reasons.

667
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 9: Why not just because this is my favorite tree. I

668
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 9: want because this is the time of year. When bucks

669
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 9: move from point A to point B, they're probably on

670
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 9: this food source nearby. He's probably in that betting area

671
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 9: over there, because my neighbors have been three four hundred

672
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 9: yards away spooking out their property and when they.

673
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 6: Do that, buck moves into this spot.

674
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 9: He's moving through this funnel location because it's too steep

675
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 9: on either side. There's a water source over there. I

676
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 9: defined that line and move meant either by pressure, by

677
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 9: habitat provement, or I've recognized it on publicly and for

678
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 9: several different indicators. And then oh, by the way, the

679
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 9: conditions of the weather, the wind, extremities of temperature.

680
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 5: Are on my side. And then I go in for

681
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 5: that set.

682
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 9: That would be if you can adhere to some of

683
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 9: those things going forward, make them a better twenty five

684
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 9: oh much better.

685
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: Next we have Steve Hanson, and I think his answer

686
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 3: was probably the only one that brought up this take,

687
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: And so here we go, how can one guy make

688
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 3: the next twenty five years of white tail hunting better?

689
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: With Steve Hanson, you.

690
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 10: Know, I would say, you know, number one, try to

691
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 10: bring somebody new into the sport. You know, that's that's

692
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 10: going to help everybody. If you have a nephew, a cousin,

693
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 10: you know, even somebody else, you know, maybe mentor someone

694
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 10: on a on a youth hunt, that would be the

695
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 10: you know, that would that would make the overall hunting

696
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 10: community better. If you're asking what could somebody specifically do

697
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 10: to make their next twenty five years better, I'm gonna

698
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 10: say the same thing I've answered on some of our

699
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 10: other discussions. It's, you know, up your game, you know,

700
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 10: don't settle for young deer, truly, learn to judge deer, pass,

701
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 10: dear up, and spend a lot of time improving the habitat.

702
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: Improving the habitat.

703
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 10: Will yield rewards right away and for the next twenty

704
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 10: five years. And you know, not everybody can go in

705
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 10: and TSI eighty ac ors or something like that. But

706
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 10: if you identify a need on a farm, even if

707
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 10: it's a place you have permission, Hey, ask the landowner.

708
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 10: You know that old fence that the deer keep getting

709
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 10: tangled up in and dying and stuff. We find them

710
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 10: every year. Yeah, can I tear that fence out? I'll

711
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 10: spend a couple of saturdays doing something like that, you know,

712
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 10: something like that to give back to the herd. We'll

713
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 10: pay dividends to you in the future.

714
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: Rolling into the next guest, we have Bobby Kendall, and

715
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 3: let's just get right into it.

716
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: Here's what Bobby has to say.

717
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 3: What's one thing an individual can do to make the

718
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: next twenty five years a deer hunting better twenty five.

719
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 11: Ye, so you know the elephant in the room. I

720
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 11: hunt a lot of private ground and that is a

721
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 11: game changer. You know, when you own the ground and

722
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 11: you can make the decisions, you have to be able

723
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 11: to do that. So maybe my story can be a

724
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 11: motivation to somebody watching.

725
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 5: So I'm thirty nine. I've used to play music for

726
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 5: a living.

727
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 11: I dropped out of pharmacy school to come to the

728
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 11: Midwest and guide hunters. When I was nineteen to try

729
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 11: and figure out what I want to do with my life.

730
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 11: I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad books, and I

731
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 11: figured out how to buy an apartment building, and I

732
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 11: use out a apartment house, and I.

733
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 5: Used that equity to buy another one.

734
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 11: And then I got in a position where I didn't

735
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 11: have to get a real job because I was just

736
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 11: like surviving barely. But on that so I was able

737
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 11: to make some moves, and eventually, when I was twenty two,

738
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 11: I bought a twenty acre piece and it was a stretch,

739
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 11: you know, I just did it, and I was like, well,

740
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 11: maybe if I do like it with the house stuff

741
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 11: and I like set it up, I could sell it.

742
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 5: And so fast forward. That was when I was twenty two.

743
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 11: I'm thirty nine now and I've bought and sold several

744
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 11: hundred farms, and I've got to hunt some of the

745
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 11: sweetest farms there is anywhere. And so I guess my

746
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 11: point is with that, like I was playing music in

747
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 11: bars and guiding for a couple hundred dollars a week,

748
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 11: and I made some decisions and I changed my course

749
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 11: and so like, there's three type of people that are

750
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 11: gonna listen to this, and and one is gonna be like,

751
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 11: it must be nice.

752
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 5: You know, I can't do this. One is gonna be like,

753
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 5: he's right, I did it. You know.

754
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 11: I've watched so many people accidentally create wealth buying hunting farms,

755
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 11: and other people are going, I can't believe what they're

756
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 11: paying to shoot a deer, And I'm like, can you

757
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 11: believe what they're paying for bitcoin? What is bitcoin? Well,

758
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 11: that's what hunting ground has become. It's become an asset class.

759
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 11: It doesn't matter. It's not about the value of shooting deer.

760
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 11: It's an asset class. And there's only so much of it,

761
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 11: and the demand is getting greater and it's going up

762
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 11: in value. So I've watched so many people accidentally create wealth,

763
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 11: like change their lives by buying hunting ground. So I

764
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 11: would say, get motivated, figure it out. Whether it's this

765
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 11: year or next year or the next year. Maybe it's

766
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 11: five acres in suburban area that somebody had overlooked, and and.

767
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 5: You got to get in the game.

768
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 11: So, like I had a mentor I met when I

769
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 11: was playing music at one of these places, a hunting

770
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 11: lodge or whatever. And he's a big developer in Huntsville, Alabama,

771
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 11: and he was my mentor, and he kept saying, you

772
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 11: got to get in the game, you got to get

773
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 11: in the game. I'm like, well, how do I get Well,

774
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 11: I finally just got in the game. So that would

775
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 11: be my advice is just go for it. Understand, there's

776
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 11: bad debt like a credit card, and there's good debt

777
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 11: like a bank. Figure out where you're comfortable. It's probably

778
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 11: gonna work out. Its land. We've had all this crazy

779
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,439
Speaker 11: stuff going in the world on in the world over

780
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 11: however many years, and this land doesn't hiccup, you know,

781
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 11: especially here in Illinois. It's just so good and it

782
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 11: can be life changed, not just about deer, honey.

783
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 5: So get in the game.

784
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 11: Figure out a plan, one year, five year plan to

785
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 11: get your first piece of ground.

786
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 5: Control that thing.

787
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 11: I would rather control twenty five acres and make the

788
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 11: calls than a thousand acres with a group of guys,

789
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 11: even if they're friends, and not have full control over

790
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 11: making the decisions, because it's little decisions that break you.

791
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 5: So that's what I'd say. I mean, you know, get

792
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 5: in the game by ground.

793
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: Next we have Don Higgins.

794
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 3: I think Don is the oldest of the guest here,

795
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 3: so he has the most insight, the most wisdom on

796
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: his perspective, and maybe everyone doesn't agree with it, but

797
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: this is his take on how the next twenty five

798
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: years of white tail hunting can be better.

799
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 2: As just one guy doing their own thing.

800
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 12: Here we go, well, on a personal level, they need

801
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 12: to buy land. There's no doubt about it that good

802
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 12: hunty in the future, and we're probably already there is

803
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 12: going to be tied to land ownership.

804
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 4: You're either going to own it or you're not going

805
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 4: to hunt.

806
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 12: And I think even leases are extremely difficult to find

807
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 12: today and very expensive. It's easier to find a place

808
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 12: to buy than it is to lease a good a

809
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 12: good property. Now they the drawback is that good property

810
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 12: has become more and more expensive over time, and it becomes.

811
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 4: Harder and harder.

812
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 12: For the average person to purchase a property just for hunting.

813
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 12: I totally get that, but on a personal level, you

814
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 12: need to be doing everything you can to acquire property

815
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 12: today because in the future it's going to become more

816
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 12: and more critical if you want to be a hunter

817
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 12: from a whole I don't hate to call it industry,

818
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 12: but let's just say hunting community wide answer to this question.

819
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 4: We need to be more involved with our game agencies.

820
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 12: And I don't know that that's even possible, But these

821
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 12: game agencies have become so political that I think in

822
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 12: a lot of cases, the hunter's opinions, the hunter's desires

823
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 12: are not even considered.

824
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 4: That there's other.

825
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 12: Groups whose input is a whole lot stronger than the

826
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 12: deer hunter, and one of those is a farmer. In Illinois,

827
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 12: the Farm Bureau is the most powerful lobby in the state.

828
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 12: I think that the hunters and the farmers need to

829
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 12: get together and find solutions to some of these deer

830
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 12: management issues. You know, the farmers they want every deer

831
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 12: dead during the growing season, but then in the fall

832
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 12: they want to lease out their hunting land to whoever,

833
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 12: including non residents, without any sort of government oversight. But

834
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 12: yet then in the summer they want that government to

835
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 12: provide them these deuisance tags they can go out there

836
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 12: and indiscriminately shoot deer on nuisance permits. I think the

837
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 12: solution there, and I'm not pointing the finger at farmers.

838
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 12: I'm not pointing the finger at deer hunters. What I'm

839
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 12: saying is the farmers and the deer hunters need to

840
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 12: come together. They need to work together to find solutions

841
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 12: that's good for both parties, and I think it's possible.

842
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 12: I think to this point, farmers and hunters on the

843
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 12: political side of the spectrum anyway, i've kind of been

844
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 12: at odds.

845
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 4: They've wanted different things.

846
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 12: I've been on different sides of various issues, and I

847
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 12: think that if they came together and each side was

848
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 12: able to hear the other side out and come to

849
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 12: a better understanding of the other side's position, I think

850
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 12: that the deer hunters and farmers could sit together at

851
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 12: a table and come up with some common.

852
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 4: Sense solutions that benefits everyone.

853
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 12: I don't know if that's possible in today's political climate,

854
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 12: especially in a state like Illinois with our dirty, corrupt politics,

855
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 12: But if it's ever going to happen in Illinois, it's

856
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 12: got to happen hand in hand with the Farm Bureau.

857
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 12: The Farm Bureau gets on board with some solutions, then

858
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 12: I think it could be pushed through the legislature. But

859
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 12: without the farm Bureau support, I don't think good deer

860
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 12: management practices are ever going to have.

861
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: Do you think good deer management practices are.

862
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: A large enough group for people that care, because you

863
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 3: see people debate about man if Illinois went to one

864
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: buck state, Illinois doesn't have to go to a one

865
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: buck state. You just shoot one buck, I'm still going

866
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 3: to shoot two. That's an argument that I have actually

867
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: seen Forbatam, unfortunately on Facebook. But the thought process, or

868
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 3: my question is the people that really want best for

869
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: the resource, best for the opportunity. It's the industry and

870
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: the white tail commercialization is based off of big deer,

871
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: it's not off of immature deer. But there's also a

872
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 3: larger group of hunters, not as serious, that don't care

873
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 3: about that. And so how do you within You have

874
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 3: the farmers and hunters, but then you break down the

875
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 3: hunting side and it's fragmented, pretty drastic.

876
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 4: And that's the whole problem.

877
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 12: I mean, there's been groups in the past in Illinois

878
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 12: tried to represent the hunters, tried to bring them all

879
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 12: together and represent them all, and it's been impossible. I've

880
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 12: been a part of a couple of those groups and

881
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 12: been some very serious deer hunters, very well intentioned deer

882
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 12: hunters on board as well. But as soon as you

883
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 12: throw an idea out to the public, I don't care

884
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 12: how good the idea is. You could throw out the

885
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 12: idea that you found the cure for cancer, and somebody's

886
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 12: gonna hate it. The drug company's going to hate it

887
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 12: because now you just took away their opportunity to make

888
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 12: a profit from treating cancer. And it's the same way

889
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 12: with deer hunting. It doesn't matter what idea you throw

890
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 12: out to the deer hunting community, there's going to be

891
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 12: a sizable percentage against that, whatever that idea is, and

892
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 12: that keeps us divided. And the only reason that our

893
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 12: deer herd has fallen apart in this state and in

894
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 12: other states is because the deer hunters have been so divided.

895
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 12: If you go to Ohio and look at the topic

896
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 12: of baiting deer, you know they're allowed to put bait

897
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 12: piles out throughout season. There's that faction of deer hunters

898
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 12: that are totally for it, and there's a total another

899
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 12: group that's totally against it. And as long as those

900
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 12: two groups are divided, they're never going to come to

901
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 12: a consensus. And I think the issue that I've seen

902
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 12: in Illinois is the people that are the loudest when

903
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 12: an idea is presented. Are the people that do the least.

904
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 12: They do nothing but get on social media and complain

905
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 12: about another group, another hunting group. And all the DNR

906
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 12: has to do to the legislators is say, look, these guys,

907
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 12: here's our side of the issue, and we got all

908
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 12: these guys supporting our side exactly. And so they've always

909
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 12: no matter which side they take, they've always got a

910
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 12: sizeable group on their side. And hunters have always been divided,

911
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 12: always going to be divided. There's no way to unite them,

912
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 12: absolutely no way. The only way to address this situation

913
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 12: is for the serious hunters who care about the resource.

914
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 12: And too many deer hunters don't care about the resource.

915
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 12: All they care about is their own personal situation. You know,

916
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 12: I don't have a place to hunt, blah blah blah.

917
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 12: I want to shoot deer with the bazookah. So let's

918
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 12: make that legal, no matter what it does to the resource.

919
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 4: That's what's ruined this resource.

920
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 12: And we need to bring the hunters and the farmers together,

921
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 12: get the Farm Bureau behind us, and then we could

922
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 12: institute some positive change.

923
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 3: So what would you say to the person that says

924
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 3: I love deer hunting, but I'll never spend money to

925
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 3: buy a piece of ground to hunt deer. I'm going

926
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: to hunt public, I'm going to hunt permission. The day

927
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 3: I have to pay the hunt is the day I

928
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 3: stop hunting.

929
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 12: I've heard that before, Yeah, I have too, And I

930
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 12: got news for those folks. The day's coming where they're

931
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 12: not going to be hunting, like it or not. Hunting

932
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 12: is becoming a rich man's sport in this country, and

933
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 12: I don't don't like it personally because I was once

934
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 12: that kid that didn't have two nickels to rub together.

935
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 12: I'm the kid that and not just a kid. This

936
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 12: was into my adult years. I couldn't afford the cheapest lease.

937
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 12: I couldn't afford one hundred dollars a year for a lease.

938
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 12: You know, I grew up My wife and I when

939
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 12: we were first married, even we had our electricity shut off.

940
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 4: Numerous times.

941
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 12: I've documented that or told that story on podcasts and seminars,

942
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 12: and so I understand the plight of the guy in

943
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 12: that situation. I don't want hunting to become a rich

944
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 12: man's sport because if it was a rich man's sport

945
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 12: when I was young, I would never have been able

946
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 12: to partake in it, So I don't ever.

947
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 4: Want that to happen. But that's the road we're headed on.

948
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 12: It's already there to some degree, but it's only going

949
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 12: to get worse. It's going to get to the point

950
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 12: where you own land or you don't hunt. I think

951
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 12: even the leasing thing, more and more ground that would

952
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 12: be east is being bought up by deer hunters to manage.

953
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 12: And I've said it before, you know, a big reason

954
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 12: for that is because of the management on the state

955
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 12: wide level. The state has done such a poor job

956
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 12: managing for quality. They manage for numbers. They don't manage

957
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 12: for quality they want to. And I was actually sit

958
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 12: in on a meeting where a DNR rep was there,

959
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 12: and he specifically said, the way we manage is we

960
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 12: see are herd at a certain number early in the fall,

961
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 12: after the doze have had their fawns and raised them

962
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 12: in the summer. We want to bring that number down

963
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 12: to this number, and we don't care how it's done.

964
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 12: We don't care if they're shot with guns or bows

965
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 12: or hit by cars, or we don't care. We want

966
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 12: this number to become this number, and we don't care

967
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 12: which deer gets shot. We don't care if they shoot

968
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 12: all dose or all bucks, or we don't care if

969
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 12: they shoot fallns. We just want this number to become

970
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 12: this number. And that's a terrible way to manage a resource,

971
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 12: a big game herd. Yeah, and no matter if we're

972
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 12: talking deer, big horned sheep, that's a terrible way to

973
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 12: manage a big game herd. And that's exactly what's being done.

974
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 12: And you know, it wouldn't take that many regulation changes

975
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 12: to make Illinois the best, the best state in the

976
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 12: whole country for deer.

977
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 4: Once again, we were there. We were there.

978
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 12: We blew Iowa away at one point, and we could

979
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 12: get back there and it doesn't take much. And the

980
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 12: thing that the state doesn't realize, the legislature doesn't realize,

981
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 12: is that the value in our deer herd is not

982
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 12: by the numbers of deer we have. People aren't coming

983
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 12: here to hunt Illinois because we have lots of deer coming.

984
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 12: They're coming here because of the size of the bucks

985
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 12: that we used to have.

986
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 4: Illinois is living on its past reputation.

987
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 12: Hunters are coming to Illinois because of what Illinois was

988
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 12: twenty thirty years ago and we're living on our past reputation.

989
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 12: Those of us serious about it and who live here

990
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 12: know that it gets worse every year. This year is

991
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 12: worse than it was last year. Last year was worse

992
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 12: than the year before. We're on a downhill slide and

993
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 12: it's not turning around. I hate to say it, it's

994
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 12: not turning around.

995
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: What can one person do? What can one guy do?

996
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 12: Oh, one guy can't do much, But I guess it

997
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 12: starts with one person. One person needs to organize, and

998
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 12: one person needs to get the Farm Bureau. And since

999
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 12: they represent the farmers, they need to get the Farm

1000
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 12: Bureau at a table with a couple of deer hunters

1001
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 12: that totally understand deer management, not some guy that's looking

1002
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 12: to shoot more deer. Not some guy that's looking to

1003
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 12: legalize another weapon because he likes some you know, crazy

1004
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 12: strange weapon that shouldn't even be legal if you look

1005
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 12: at it. Only what have they done in the past

1006
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 12: twenty years. They've legalized crossbows. First it was just for disabled,

1007
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 12: and then they made it what it was only a

1008
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 12: half for a certain time, and then I think it

1009
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 12: was what you had to be sixty years or older

1010
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 12: and you could use a cross and it was just

1011
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 12: a way to get their foot in the door. They

1012
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 12: knew all along what they was going to do, but

1013
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 12: they didn't want to do it all at once. They

1014
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 12: wanted to do it a little bit of time so

1015
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 12: that we got to we didn't scream too loud. Yeah,

1016
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 12: And so then they made the crossbow legal during the

1017
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 12: entire archery season, and that was the last straw. And

1018
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 12: I've said it before, I'm not against crossbows. I think

1019
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 12: they ought to have their own season. I don't think

1020
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 12: they should be used during the full archery season. That's

1021
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 12: where the management of the resource comes in. And you

1022
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 12: can look at the firearms side. You know, they've started

1023
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 12: allowing rifles to be used during the Illinois firearm season,

1024
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 12: which was not used before. They've expanded seasons, They've created

1025
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 12: all these extra seasons, so the last weekend of the

1026
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 12: of the season, you know, if you've got any leftover tag,

1027
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 12: you can go out and shoot dose. I think we

1028
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 12: just about any weapon you can use, guns or bows

1029
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 12: or whatever, and it's all about killing more with more

1030
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 12: different weapons. And there's never been anything to address the

1031
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 12: biological side to keep those sex ratios, the buckdough ratios

1032
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 12: in line, there's never been anything to improve the aide

1033
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 12: structure of the herd. All the regulation changes have been

1034
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 12: about killing more, kill, kill, kill, and indiscriminately. It doesn't

1035
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 12: matter which year you kill, kill, kill kill. That's been

1036
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 12: the management philosophy of the Illinois DNR for the past

1037
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 12: thirty years. And again I keep repeating myself, but we've

1038
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 12: got to get the Farm Bureau and the deer hunters

1039
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 12: sitting at the same table to come up with solutions

1040
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 12: that benefit both sides of that table. And when we

1041
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 12: do that, we can all start moving forward.

1042
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 3: You mentioned you've never killed more than two bucks in

1043
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 3: a year, probably best for the resource. So do you

1044
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 3: think every hunter could not think selfishly about themselves but

1045
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 3: think what can they do best for the resource?

1046
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 4: Well?

1047
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 12: I think that asking every deer hunter to do what's

1048
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 12: right for the resource is a big ass that's never

1049
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 12: going to happen. And I don't think I'm not being

1050
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 12: pessimistic here, I'm being realistic. Based on my observations from

1051
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 12: the last forty eight years. I think deer hunters as

1052
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 12: a whole are a very selfish lot. All they care

1053
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 12: about themselves. Do I have a place to hunt? They

1054
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 12: don't care about their kids and their grandkids that aren't

1055
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 12: even born yet. Do I have a place to hunt

1056
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 12: this season? They don't care about the management of the

1057
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 12: deer herd.

1058
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 4: You can't even get guys to let young bucks go.

1059
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 12: They will shoot a young buck year after year, cut

1060
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 12: the antlers off and throw them out in the garage,

1061
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 12: and in the dog ends up running off with them

1062
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 12: and chewing them up. Why couldn't they let that deer

1063
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 12: go and shoot a dough to get the buck dough

1064
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 12: ratio more in line. The average deer hunter does not

1065
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 12: care about the proper management of the resource. And I

1066
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 12: hate to say it, but it's the true.

1067
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: And last, but not least. We have Mark Kenyon.

1068
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 3: Mark has been very instrumental of trying to be a

1069
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 3: voice in the world of conservation. And here's what he

1070
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 3: has to say.

1071
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: Here we go.

1072
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 3: You me one guy listening to this podcast. What can

1073
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 3: one person do to make the next twenty five years

1074
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: of deer hunting better than the last twenty five years.

1075
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 13: That's a big question.

1076
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 14: There are so many different specifics to this, but I

1077
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 14: think the generality, like the big picture answer that I

1078
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 14: would give is to zoom out beyond the self. But

1079
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 14: take ownership as an individual. So by that, I mean,

1080
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 14: I think if we want to make the next twenty

1081
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 14: five years of deer hunting better than the last, it's

1082
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 14: going to require I'll speak for myself rather than telling

1083
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 14: anyone else what they should do.

1084
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 13: I think that for me to do that, I.

1085
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 14: Need to stop thinking about just what would make my

1086
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 14: deer hunting better and instead think about what I could

1087
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 14: do to make everyone's deer hunting better and the situation

1088
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 14: better as a whole. By that, I mean one of

1089
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 14: the actions that I can take as an individual that

1090
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 14: will make sure that we have the opportunity to hunt,

1091
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 14: the right to hunt, and the resources to do so. So,

1092
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 14: how do we make sure that there are thriving wildlife

1093
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 14: populations and there are healthy habitats in open space and

1094
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 14: access to them. And I think it's about having that

1095
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 14: view beyond you. It's about having a long term view.

1096
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 14: It's about thinking about not just again what's going to

1097
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 14: impact me, but how does this impact to my kids

1098
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 14: and their friends and the rest of that next generation.

1099
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 14: And so there's a couple different ways to do this,

1100
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 14: and the key thing is like taking ownership, I think,

1101
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 14: I think hoping and wishing somebody else will do.

1102
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 13: It is a recipe for nothing happening.

1103
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 14: Complaining on social media, talking about how politicians suck all

1104
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 14: the time, like all of that stuff by itself not

1105
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 14: gonna achieve anything. Complaining about the DNA R not gonna

1106
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 14: achieve anything. So my approach is twofold one. I'm gonna

1107
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 14: do real dirt on the hands, action to make tangible,

1108
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 14: real impact on the ground, on the landscape in any

1109
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 14: way I can so. On the properties that I have

1110
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 14: influence over and manage, I'm gonna do whatever I can

1111
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 14: to improve the landscape for all wildlife. I think it's

1112
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 14: really important for me personally to remember that you can't

1113
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 14: look at the natural world.

1114
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 13: As like a species by species thing. What impacts do

1115
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 13: you like?

1116
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 14: Maybe deer we're most excited about, But deer are tied

1117
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 14: to vegetation, which are tied to bugs, which are tied

1118
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 14: to birds, which are tied to small mammals, which are

1119
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 14: tied to dirt, which are tied.

1120
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 13: To all of these different things.

1121
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 14: You know, there's this famous quote from I think John

1122
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 14: Murra says something like pull out any one thread in

1123
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 14: the world and you'll find it connected to everything else. Truly,

1124
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 14: everything out there is intertwined, and so I personally am trying.

1125
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 13: To zoom out when I look at.

1126
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 14: The landscapes that I influence over and try to make

1127
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,959
Speaker 14: improvements and to make land management decisions that are good

1128
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 14: not just for well I kill at one point fifty,

1129
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 14: but are like, Hey, what's the best thing for all

1130
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 14: of the wildlife hut here? What's the best thing for

1131
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 14: the health of this native ecosystem? So how can I

1132
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 14: make decisions when I'm trying to improve the timber or

1133
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 14: improve the food, or improve early secessional habitat, so that

1134
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 14: I do something that improves my deer hunting opportunities, but

1135
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 14: it's also good for up the birds, and it's also

1136
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 14: good for songbirds and the insects and butterflies and everything

1137
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 14: else out here, because if you do that, you have

1138
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 14: all of these trickle down effects that are much more

1139
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 14: long lasting. If you're helping everything, it's going to come

1140
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 14: back and help your deer hunting, it's going to come

1141
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 14: back and help your deer, turkeys, et cetera. So I'm

1142
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 14: going to do anything I can on the lands that

1143
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 14: I managed to make tangible, real impact.

1144
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 13: Right now, I'm going to go and.

1145
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 14: Also do the same things where possible on the publicans

1146
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 14: because public land access is incredibly important, not just for

1147
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 14: me personally, but also for the future of hunting because

1148
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 14: access is getting harder and harder. New hunters increasingly need

1149
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 14: public land to get started. If we don't have quality

1150
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 14: public land and healthy habitat out there, those new hunters

1151
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 14: aren't going to stick with it. They're not going to

1152
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 14: get involved in this thing. They're not going to care

1153
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 14: about this thing, They're not going to advocate for this thing.

1154
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 14: So I'm volunteering on public lands to try to improve access, opportunity,

1155
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,439
Speaker 14: habitat out there as well. It's all connected again, right,

1156
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 14: there's spillover from private land to public land, from public

1157
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 14: land to private land. It's important to remember that wildlife

1158
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 14: is a public resource right, so whether it's whoever's property

1159
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 14: is on, it is a public resource managed in the

1160
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 14: trust of the public for us. It's managed by the

1161
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 14: state for us the people. So I'm doing what I.

1162
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 13: Can in the tangible reu way.

1163
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 14: On top of that, I am also trying to be

1164
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 14: educated and active when it comes to advocating things at

1165
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 14: the high level because there's like stuff.

1166
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 13: We can do as individuals on the ground.

1167
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 14: But then there's also decisions made by the federal government

1168
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 14: or the state government or the state while you know

1169
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 14: fishing game agencies or the different land management agencies.

1170
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 13: There's all these.

1171
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 14: Different groups that manage our resources, whether it be our

1172
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 14: public wildlife resource or be public lands or even you

1173
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 14: know these agencies that help incentivize and manage private land

1174
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 14: conservation right, farm bill stuff, all that. So, all of

1175
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 14: those things have a huge impact on our hunting opportunities,

1176
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 14: on habitat quality, on the future of wildlife, deer, all

1177
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 14: these different things. And it's easy to think that that

1178
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 14: is all outside of our control and just all dealt

1179
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 14: with by some boogeyman in Washington, d C. And maybe

1180
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 14: that's the case sometimes, But if you are not participating

1181
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 14: in that process, you're just as much kind of at

1182
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 14: fault as anyone out.

1183
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 13: There who is making the decisions.

1184
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 14: If you are standing outside of me and completely and

1185
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 14: ignoring it or pretending it's not happening, or not in

1186
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 14: some ways speaking up about it, how can you complain

1187
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 14: about so? I think just as important as like working

1188
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,439
Speaker 14: the ground, yourself is working whatever they out but working

1189
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 14: you're working.

1190
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 13: The grounds in the clouds.

1191
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 14: I don't know the ground in the clouds, like advocacy,

1192
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 14: calling your elected officials, going to Natural Resource Commission meetings

1193
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 14: of your state, speaking to your state game agency, making

1194
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 14: sure that they understand what's happening in your neck of

1195
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 14: the woods, or understanding the needs and desires or challenges

1196
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 14: of the boat wunting community or the waterfowl community, or

1197
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 14: what's going on in the turkeys, or you know, engagement, advocacy,

1198
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 14: having a voice. All that stuff really really matters in

1199
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 14: the hunting and fishing community. When we all kind of

1200
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 14: recognize issues and we stand up and speak out together,

1201
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 14: we really can change things. But most of the time

1202
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 14: our community is so focused on just doing our own

1203
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 14: thing that we generally don't get involve in that. And

1204
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 14: that's a mistake for the future because in the future

1205
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 14: there's there's so many other pressures. There's so many other

1206
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 14: things going on right now that impact hunting and fishing

1207
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 14: in the outdoors and deer, but are being decided on

1208
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 14: by people who have no connection to it. They really

1209
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 14: don't care about it because they're worried about totally different things.

1210
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 14: They have other priorities, perspectives. It's like a foreign concept

1211
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 14: to them. We are the folks who understand it, who

1212
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 14: live it, who really deeply care about it. But we're

1213
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 14: a small slice of the population, you know, four percent

1214
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 14: or something like that. So if we don't make a

1215
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 14: concerted effort to be really active and really engaged, you know,

1216
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 14: this stuff will just be completely off the radar of

1217
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 14: the people who are ninety six percent of the nation

1218
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 14: and very easily could vote against us or just do

1219
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 14: something out of total disregard that has huge ramifications for

1220
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 14: the next twenty five years.

1221
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 13: So we got to do the work on the ground.

1222
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 14: We've got to do the work in the halls and

1223
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 14: the capitals and at the you know, the Zoom meeting,

1224
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 14: commission meeting, whatever it is. Like, we need to be

1225
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 14: active across If we do that, if we go maybe

1226
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 14: the biggest thing here is this. I think for a

1227
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 14: long time, hunters and anglers have thought, you know, by

1228
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 14: the license. I did my part. Now I want to

1229
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 14: go do my thing, have fun. That used to be

1230
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 14: enough to check the boxes like I'm a hunter, I'm

1231
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 14: a conservationist.

1232
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 13: I bought my license. I've made that contribution.

1233
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 14: I don't think that's gonna be enough if we want

1234
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 14: to keep this stuff around for the next twenty five years.

1235
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 14: I think also when you say, Okay, I'm a hunter

1236
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 14: and I want to go kill deer, whether or not

1237
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 14: we want this to be the case, is kind of

1238
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 14: the reality moving forward. You also are going to have

1239
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 14: to become an advocate, whether that be with your hands

1240
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 14: or with your voice. We have to work for these

1241
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 14: things if we want the next twenty five years to

1242
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 14: be better, because there's so many other things that are

1243
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 14: coming at us that are trying to take that away,

1244
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 14: whether it be a tax on the rights to hunt,

1245
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 14: or just all these pressures on land and habitat disappearing,

1246
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 14: or the many of the things that are impacting wildlife

1247
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 14: disease go on all so we cimainly have to be

1248
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 14: engaged if we want to keep this wrong.

1249
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 3: I think that's a sobering response there and should be

1250
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 3: something for everyone to have a planet attack as one person,

1251
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 3: because I think that collectively there's a lot of impact

1252
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 3: that can be done. And I think that there's obviously

1253
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 3: some division and some different styles of hunting and what

1254
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 3: people think, but I think overall we all want the

1255
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 3: resource to be better.

1256
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 2: I think everyone wants that, and so that's the roadmap.

1257
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 3: That we get pointed in the right direction, and that

1258
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 3: concludes the back forty mini series. And so I appreciate

1259
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 3: the opportunity. I've really enjoyed diving into all these questions

1260
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 3: with so many people I have so much respect for,

1261
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 3: and getting to learn firsthand and catching up with all

1262
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 3: those different folks. So I appreciate the opportunity, and I

1263
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 3: hope everyone really enjoyed it. And there's so many more

1264
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 3: now what's white till the lemmas? And so many other

1265
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 3: questions that happened every single day throughout the whole year.

1266
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: So I just want to say thank you.

1267
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 13: Hey, you're welcome. I appreciate you spearheading this.

1268
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 14: I'm so excited to go back and listen to everybody

1269
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 14: else's answers, and I think this is going to be

1270
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 14: a format that folks are really going to learn from.

1271
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 13: And there's a lot more Jake.

1272
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: We'll see and we'll see what happens.

1273
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, speaking of hopefully folks you are not sick of

1274
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 14: hearing Jake, because there's more of Jake to come this year.

1275
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 13: I'm wired to hunt.

1276
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 14: Hopefully you're aware of our rough Fresh radio mini series,

1277
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 14: in which we get in season reports from deer hunters

1278
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,479
Speaker 14: all across the country on what's happening out there every

1279
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 14: single week, and this year, Jake, you are hosting rough Fresh.

1280
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 14: I'm excited about that. Thanks for taking up the mantle. Yeah,

1281
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 14: are you ready for that?

1282
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: I'm ready or not? Here I come.

1283
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 3: I think it's a great format and it's fun to

1284
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 3: hear what's happening all across the country, and I think

1285
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 3: there's a lot of value for people to get a

1286
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 3: really concise idea of Okay, this guy from Michigan. I'm

1287
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 3: from Michigan. This is what his plan is for the

1288
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 3: next couple of days. This is what he's anticipating. This

1289
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: is what he saw two days ago, and I'm hunting tomorrow.

1290
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of value and it's going

1291
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 3: to be fun. I live in my own little echo

1292
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 3: chamber with my own friends, and you know this, doing

1293
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 3: my own rough Fresh and where I'm at, and it'll

1294
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 3: be fun to expand that and learn more from a

1295
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 3: lot of different people. So I'm really looking forward to it.

1296
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 3: And the fall is gonna fly by, and I'm really excited.

1297
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1298
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 14: So that's gonna be every Wednesday basically from here on

1299
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 14: out through the end of the season Rough Fresh Radio

1300
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 14: with Jake Hofer.

1301
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 2: There you guys have it.

1302
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed the Back forty series. I really

1303
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 3: appreciated all the guests that took the time to answer

1304
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 3: each and every question.

1305
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 2: Here.

1306
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 3: We had the bonus episode on the white Tail podcast

1307
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 3: that is Live that was back when we launched this series,

1308
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 3: and it's been a lot of fun. I hope you

1309
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 3: guys have got some key pieces of insight as we

1310
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 3: roll into the season. Each week was developed to have

1311
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 3: an approach that likely everyone is facing to some capacity.

1312
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 2: Maybe it's the field, food plots.

1313
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 3: We still haven't had much rain, Maybe you've got access

1314
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 3: to a new area. All these different things and different

1315
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 3: challenges we face as we build up to the season.

1316
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 3: I hope everyone got one or two things that they

1317
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 3: can keep in the back of their mind to have

1318
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 3: a better White Tail season this upcoming year. And next

1319
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 3: week we're gonna be kicking off Retfresh and so I

1320
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 3: just want to say thank you to everyone that tuned

1321
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 3: in on the Back forty series and we'll see it