WEBVTT - Lab 032: Life Avalanche 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.960 You know, at the end of Lap thirty one, we've 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:05.880 talked a little bit about political burnout, but I think 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.560 we were just really playing it a little too cute. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:10.559 I think it's time to call a spade a spade. 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.520 I don't know about you, but I'm dropping the cloak 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:15.720 of shame and I'm here to say your girl is 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:16.640 burnt out. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.000 Yes, I'm tired. I'm tired. I'm constantly tired. I feel 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.400 like I go to sleep tired, and I wake up tired, 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.720 and all day I'm just tired. And the news doesn't 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.760 help being quarantined and working from home for some folks 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.400 not working from home right because they lost their jobs, right. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.960 And then the pressure just to level up during quarantine. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.559 I saw that meme at the beginning of quarantine where 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.479 it was like, Okay, that business idea you had, now 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.040 you got the time to do it. I was like, 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:46.640 this is a lot of pressure. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.160 I've heard you described this as a life avalanche. Everything's 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:51.159 just piling up. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.080 Yeah, you feel like you have so many balls in 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.560 the air and then they all just come crashing down 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:56.520 at some point. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.320 Well, it's time to talk about burnout. It's impacting us 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.680 in so many different ways, let's get into it. I'm 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.440 TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.840 Let's really get into all the different types of burnout 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.760 that we have been experiencing just in this year. I 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.520 don't know if it's our generation or what, but it's 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.360 just like every free moment you have, you should be 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.120 dedicating it to some type of grind and you can 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.760 sleep when you're dead. And I'm just like, oh, I 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.360 feel like this is gonna kill me too soon. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.240 Well that just means that this episode couldn't have come 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:58.000 at a better time. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.080 In this lab, we're talking all of about burnout. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.120 So let's get into the recitation. What do we know? 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.760 We know burnout is not unique to me and you. No, 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.120 I'm having lots of conversations. I see everybody else talking 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.600 about it. People are exhausted, especially now. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:20.000 I think since everybody at home and quarantining and social distancing, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.239 I feel like a lot of people have been talking 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:26.239 about it more because for the folks that are at 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.480 home and working, they're like, okay, I am living at 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.760 work now, and then folks that have kids. I don't 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:34.560 know how y'all are doing it. I really don't. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.000 I also feel like there are levels to burn out, 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.160 you know. Sometimes I get burned out on a specific topic. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.720 Sometimes I get burned out on a whole platform. Like 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.520 I'm done with Instagram, right, I'm just tired of it. 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.480 Folks will be like, oh, I'm taking a break from Instagram. 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.239 I'm tired of seeing people only posting like the best 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.560 part of themselves and it's making me feel bad about myself. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.960 So they get burnt out on Instagram. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.360 Social media burnout, yeah, or like some people be. 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.400 Like, oh, I'm not gonna be I'm not going to 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:01.560 watch the news anymore. 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:03.240 The news. Burnout is real. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.760 Burnout is just the big umbrella. Where do you feel 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:06.160 it the most? 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:11.200 C Hm. I feel it with work, just because all 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.400 the uncertainty and the role I have. I face a 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.080 lot of people right so income and grad students. I 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.240 don't know what's happening. I want to be able to 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.000 give them complete information. So then I feel almost like 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.720 in limbo, like where I have all these tasks, these 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:26.040 things I need to get done, but I don't have 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.040 all the information I need, and these people are waiting 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:29.760 on me, and these other people are expecting to hear 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.800 from me. And it feels like a lot to manage 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:34.480 at the same time, and I don't want to let 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.320 anybody down, but I also don't want to give people 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.080 incorrect information, you know, And so it puts me in 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:40.320 this really tricky position. 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.760 If you're listening on the Spotify app, you have the 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.000 opportunity to tell us exactly how you're feeling and what 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.920 you're burning out on. On our episode page. There's a 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.640 poll that you can take right now, and we want 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.320 to hear what you're burning out on. What do we 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:54.960 want to know? 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.360 What is burnout? I know these feelings, but like, what 0:03:58.640 --> 0:03:58.960 is it? 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.040 Yeah? Is this something that a doctor can say, I'm 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.320 going to diagnose you with burnout? Like what are the 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.560 symptoms of it? And what are the causes of it? 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:12.120 And you know, you raised a really good point you said, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.440 is this something that's just specific to our generation? My 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.080 grandma was never burned out, or at least she never 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:22.719 said it. So what happened? Am I just built weak? 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.240 I feel like we got a lot more responsibility now. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.159 I feel like back then you could just you know, 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.760 live off the land, but now you got to do 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.880 all this extra stuff and everybody's expecting you to be, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.800 you know, president of the United States and also own 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.040 twelve businesses and make sure your hair look good. And 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.240 you got that crooked tooth, don't forget to fix that. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.159 I don't got enough time or space or energy to 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:45.640 do it all. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.800 And I don't know how you spent your summers. But 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:49.840 living off the land is hard. Have you ever tried 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.279 to make souer kraut from thirty heads of cabbage and 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.839 one hoe just chopping? It's hard. 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.160 My friend has done it all. She's done it all. 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.440 You just don't want to be a pieeer woman. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:01.679 I'm burnt out. 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:05.440 Let's jump into the dissection. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.960 Our guest for today's lab is doctor Ann Helen Peterson. 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.560 My name is Ann Helen Peterson. I have my PhD 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.120 and Media studies from the University of Texas and my 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.479 book is called Can't Even How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.320 Doctor Peterson's book takes a deep dive into understanding the 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.960 origins and signs of burnout and connecting it to American 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:29.599 capitalism and parenting. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.880 And our first question was how does she define burnout? 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:35.080 You hit the wall. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.479 You work so hard for so long, but instead of 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.920 collapsing and stopping what you're doing, you scale the. 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:42.880 Wall, and then you keep going some more. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.080 You just keep going with that low grade exhaustion as 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.359 the background to every component of your life. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.080 So it's similar to hitting the wall while you're running 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:59.560 a marathon and your body basically like shuts down and 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:01.920 they'll be running and then all of a sudden, their 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.840 legs it's like their legs don't work, and they'll hit 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.760 the ground, but then they'll still be trying to run, 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.800 and every time they try and stand up, they just 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:10.600 fall back down. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.840 So basically there's zombies and we are too. Yes, So 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.520 our next question is what causes burnout. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.080 The foundation of our current form of burnout is procarity. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.360 Precarity is defined as the state of having insecure employment 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:27.440 or income. 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:32.640 And that means pricarity in your standing in americanciety, economic procarity, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:38.520 social precarity, just constantly being worried in many different capacities 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:43.479 about your safety, your financial safety, and what's going to 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.120 happen with your kids, all these sorts of things, and 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.360 we resort to all sorts of coping mechanisms and behaviors 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.400 in order to counteract that lack of safety net. 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.159 This is realer than ever as a black woman in America, 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.560 existing during this time where so many people are without homes, 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.320 without jobs, in our current political climate. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:07.960 So many unknowns that can cause a lot of stress. 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.880 And a little stress here and there. That's fine, But 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.920 the thing about burnout is that it feels like chronic stress. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.400 It just keeps going on and on. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.880 Right, You're building up a big burnout house with all 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.640 these stress bricks, so percarity, that feeling of insecurity is 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.400 what triggers the behaviors that lead to burnout. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.440 Doctor Peterson told us that surveillance at work can be 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.120 another thing that triggers burnout. This can be anything from 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.679 regular check ins to documentation of daily activities, to cameras 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.360 in the workplace. We're supposed to have all these tools, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.560 like digital things to help us stay on task and 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.200 to keep track, but sometimes those things almost feel like surveillance, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.920 like you're being monitored and tracked as you do your work. 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.280 If your boss is regularly checking in wanting you to 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:54.200 document your daily activities, micro managing, you keep your camera 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.400 on on zoom so I can see you all day working. 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.280 No way, I got PJS on. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.040 Not if you work with me, I want everybody to 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.440 be relaxed. Don't turn that camera on. I don't need 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:03.920 to see it. 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.000 There are these modes of surveillance that are supposed to 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.880 be there in order to incentivize productivity or I don't know, 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.800 like there's just this underlying thesis to them that workers 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.720 are lazy and we'll always do bad things. 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.600 Doctor Peterson told us about studies that show a lower 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.960 quality of work from people who are working under surveillance. 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.240 So it's actually doing the opposite of what it's meant 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.760 to do in the first place. And she says that 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.400 has a lot to do with this internalized anxiety about 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:33.240 being watched. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.960 So when you take all these things together, the insecurity, 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.520 the surveillance, all of this just sets the stage for burnout. 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.320 And we really want to know, what are some indicators 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.920 that you might be burned out burnout behaviors? 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:47.480 What are they? 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.280 So one of the biggest ones, and our parents adopted 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.840 this as well in the seventies and eighties, is you 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.560 just work more. Right, if you work harder, if you 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.800 work longer hours, if you try to prove yourself and capacity, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.160 then maybe you'll find that stability. But when that stability 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.240 is elusive and you just keep working. You know, that's burnout. 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.760 Another burnout behavior might be this desire to totally check out. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.440 Maybe it's Love Island or Twitter or Instagram or TikTok 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:19.880 or in doctor Peterson's case, I. 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.720 Got really into the super dumb Candy Crush style game, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.240 and I would play it like at all the points 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.280 when I would rather be like, oh, I should go 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:35.080 take a walk, or I should, you know, just cook something, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.840 or I should read a book like this fiction book 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.760 that has been on my nightstand that I really want 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:41.800 to read, and be like, no, I really needed to 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.840 play my game. I found myself going back to it 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.840 because I was craving that sort of numb broad space. 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.679 I think we all do that. My friend has her 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.920 own What's your game? TT tell the world. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.240 She's trying to out me and embarrass me. But I 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.640 stand by this game. I've been playing playing it for 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.920 very many years, and it is called Smurf Village. 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.800 My friend has been playing Smurfs since and I. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.200 Love them very much. They work very hard, and I 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.720 work very hard as well to build these different villages 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.200 all over and even on different planets. You know, it 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.720 gets like that. So now that you tell the Folks, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.599 which you've been playing since grad school. 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.360 I've been playing Township, which is like this farm game 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:34.280 where you plant crops, you have factories, you you know, 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.400 feed your cows. The cows make milk, You collect the milk, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.680 You take the milk to the dairy factory. You make cheese, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.800 You use the cheese that you're also using to make 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.520 cheeseburgers over here in the fast food restaurant, and then 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.800 you sell those things. Right, you're doing all this stuff. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.440 I didn't even recognize that as burnout, and I thought 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.439 I was just bored and needed something else to do. 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.080 I didn't either until we talked to doctor Peterson, and 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.920 it was clear as day. When I'm the most stressed, 0:10:57.920 --> 0:10:59.640 when I have the most things on my plate and 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.280 I feel overwhelmed, Smurf Village cows, I'm here to milk you. 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.280 But I think the big thing about it for me 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.240 was instead of getting mad at myself, I was just like, 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.240 I see this, I see what my body in my 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.560 mind is asking for, and how can I start to 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.800 slowly change some things so that I don't need this 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:17.600 game anymore? 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.560 But the thing is playing Angry Birds or Smurf Village 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.600 for an hour might help you escape, but it's not 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:28.040 necessarily relaxing. It's just throwing a blanket over the atomic bomb. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.000 Doctor Peterson says. Instead of going after that numb feeling, 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.520 what might be more helpful in decreasing burnout is cultivating 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:36.240 a new hobby. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.600 What a real hobby can do is give you's that 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.280 mindless space. Right. It can be something that you are 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.160 dedicated for, that you are not optimizing for anyone else, 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.840 but that you are just like out there doing the weeding, 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.960 you know, depending on whatever your hobby is. But a 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:57.840 lot of us have failed or lost that capacity to 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:59.640 seek that space in hobbies. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.880 My recent hobby has been gardening, and if you go 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.679 on our Instagram, you can see me and my friend 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.120 Zakia when she came over to my house masked of course, 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.600 and we did some gardening in my yard. It didn't 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.440 go well. It went actually it went very well, but 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.200 there were parts where I didn't know what I was 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:18.679 doing and I almost hurt myself. 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.640 But you made it out alive. Riding my bike. That's 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.200 my hobby. I'm out here, add me on Strava. I 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:25.640 love it. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:26.920 My friend be hitting it. 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:27.720 It's so free. 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.360 Yeah, it's great. To get outside, get some fresh air, 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.240 and do some things that you know aren't related to 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.439 work that just make you happy. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.679 But sometimes I feel guilty about having these hobbies. 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.199 Yeah, sometimes when I'm doing stuff like that, I feel 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.760 like you should be working, or you should be you know, 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.920 doing something else. You should be reading the Wall Street 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.840 Journal or the dictionary, learning some new words. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.600 I'm like, ah, right, how did we get to this point? 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.280 We asked doctor Peterson about the history of burnout and 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.360 how we as a society got here. 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.640 So, a lot of millennials, grandparents, maybe great grandparents, the 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.319 people who came out of World War Two, they enjoyed 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.040 this brief period that's sometimes referred to as like the 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.200 Golden Age of American capitalism, where a lot of people 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.559 working class people were able to join the middle class. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.360 And then that starts to fade away. There's a series 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.600 of like mini recessions in the seventies and eighties, and 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.839 these people who had grown up in this Golden Age 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.440 of American capitalism they turn into adults and they enter 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.280 the workplace and they're like, well, I have to either 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.440 finally reach the middle class if my parents hadn't done that, 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.320 or sustain my place in the middle class. And I'm 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.040 so desperate for that that I'm going to start working 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:38.880 all the time, and I'm going to try to instill 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.320 in my kids this attitude that they need to work 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:41.960 all the time. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.599 So this is our parents' fault and our granny's and 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:47.800 grandpa fault. 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.720 I don't know that my family was middle class coming 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.840 out of World War Two, But I also don't feel 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:57.520 like I had this attitude that we had to work 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.000 all the time. Do you feel like you your parents? 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.840 And still my parents worked a lot, Like my mom 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.640 had two jobs. My dad he worked a lot. He 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.559 had one job, but he worked a lot. I don't 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.240 know if they ever explicitly said you have to work hard. 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.560 I think it was just like leading by example. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.679 I think working hard was value. But it seemed like 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.600 our parents worked hard. But they also seemed like they 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.320 worked hard and it was effortless, like they worked hard. 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.280 And every weekend we went to my grandma's house, we 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.280 drove a long way and we did like I'm tired, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.000 aren't you tired? When I look back at it, I'm like, yeah, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.880 how are you going to work? And then talking to me. 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.280 Right after my age, my mother pretty much had three kids, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.480 I couldn't imagine just having my little chihuahuah Daisy is 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:47.440 stressing me out. And so I guess now present day, 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.600 we're using them as our models for what we should 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.800 be doing, and that means to run ourselves ragged. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.560 Slowly over the course of our lifetimes. In the eighties 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.760 and nineties transformed childhood into something that used to be 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.480 like a space for play and imagination and personality formation 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:10.720 into for a lot of people, one long series of 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.040 resume building activities. And that can be really really hard 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.720 when you just think of yourself as a resume instead 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.600 of like as a person with a soul and a 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:20.800 heart and all those things. 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.560 Then you get these eighties babies and these parents who 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.520 grew up with like more economic mobility. I mean, we 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:27.920 see it. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:28.160 You know. 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.200 Parents are like, once you graduate from college, you should 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.160 have a job, and I'm like, that's not how anymore. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.920 I know, plenty of people with degrees and degrees is 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:38.160 still no job right. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.920 Or lots of degrees, all the degrees still can't get 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:41.480 a job. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.080 Or these jobs that don't value the work that they're doing. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.960 And so I think some of this is around what 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:53.240 the economy and what the workforce looked like for our parents' generations, 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:58.720 and then they project those expectations on you and you're like, nah. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.160 There is this particular millennial experience that is represented as universal, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.360 and there are so many different ways to be a millennial, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.360 and just because burnout is kind of the unifying experience, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.680 there are different ways that they came to that point, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.160 and a lot of it has to do with who 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.080 your parents were and how they decided to raise you, 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.200 but also stuff like urban and rural backgrounds, like are 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.040 you a first generation immigrant? Like all sorts of stuff. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.400 So the millennial generation goes from people being born in 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.400 nineteen eighty one to people born in nineteen ninety six. 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.720 I was born in nineteen eighty seven. I don't have 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.200 nothing in common with something somebody that was born in 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:36.240 nineteen ninety six. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.240 I mean, we laugh and joke about our differences and 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:41.479 it's only two years. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.240 Tt exactly because it's like we grew up in two 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.680 different states. We have parents that were in different fields, 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.920 like we had different interests, Like my millennial and your 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.760 millennial are not the same. So the things that may 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.880 stress me out and cause me to burn out later 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.640 be the same for you or you know, not even 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.560 from maybe the same times, the same people in the 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.879 same house, like even your siblings, like just your birth 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.400 order may change things, your relationship with your parents may 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:12.359 change things, you know. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.280 And I think what we forget is layering these identities 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.880 right and how those burnouts can stack up. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.720 Absolutely, there's so much nuance when it comes to burnout. 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:25.800 Let's take a break and then we're going to talk 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.680 about specific industries and types of jobs that are most 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:49.439 at risk for burning out. We're back. So we've already 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.240 talked about the origins of burnout and how to recognize 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.560 it when it's happening. We ask doctor and Helen Peterson 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.119 if there are any particular industries that are especially vulnerable 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.800 to work or burn and out, and it came as 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.199 no surprise that academia and higher education are at the 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:06.080 top of the list. 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.600 There's just so many different ways that the precarity of 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.399 academia right now is coming to bear on people. And 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.480 I think that some people at this point in their lives, 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.480 in their mid late thirties, are like, I can't do 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:19.760 this for the rest of my life. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.560 That's such a good point. And even within higher education 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.720 there is nuance in there and the types of burnout 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.560 that a person can experience, Like if you're talking about 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.959 a faculty member, professor, the burnout that they may experience 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.040 is going to be very different from a student who 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.000 has multiple classes and things like that, right. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.480 And they may not know are they still having classes, 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.160 what do they do about tuition? All those things lead 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.840 to that same kind of insecurity. 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.600 And like we said earlier, insecurity is a trigger of burnout, 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:53.920 and that insecurity can take many forms, including an inconsistent schedule. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.679 I cite a lot of research from work that's been 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.520 done on retail workers and how things like lack of 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.720 an advanced schedule can lead to so many different types 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.159 of burn on. Part of that is just like if 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.200 you think about your life and you have no ability 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:11.080 to schedule it, Like psychologically that's hard, but it also 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.240 makes everything else in your life hard, like scheduling childcare 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.760 when you don't get your schedule until a week in advance. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.919 This really makes me think about the gig economy, Like 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.840 this idea of just ditching all these jobs together to 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.040 create enough income to live. 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.400 The amount of money that they're making per month can 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.440 vary from month to month. That can be very stressful. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.600 Yeah, and even just when the work has to be 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.000 done right. It's different if you know you have a 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.560 nine to five every day and you're blocking that nine 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:46.160 to five off. Having that schedule consistently can be useful. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.239 But if you don't have a schedule and you're just 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.679 at somebody else's whim and so you just don't have 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.560 any ability to really plan what your days are going 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.160 to look like, and that can wear you down. 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.000 How can you like try to have a steady social 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.359 life where you can cultivate meaningful relationships or hobbies when, again, 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:04.200 you don't have a steady schedule. 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.200 Doctor Peterson says that industries that are super specialized can 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:09.240 also be a risk. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.560