WEBVTT - White Terror

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a little after seven pm on a warm

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<v Speaker 2>Wednesday evening in October of twenty twenty two. Urai Van

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<v Speaker 2>Koulik and Matuschhorvath were sitting outside of Taplaren, a gay bar,

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<v Speaker 2>and brought us lavas city center. Matushe was studying Chinese

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<v Speaker 2>at a nearby university. You or I was a drag

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<v Speaker 2>performer whose day job was designing the displays at a

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<v Speaker 2>clothing store. They were enjoying the evening outside of one

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<v Speaker 2>of the city's few dedicated queer spaces, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>were dead. They were shot by a teenager who left

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<v Speaker 2>behind a sixty five page neo Nazi manifesto before shooting

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<v Speaker 2>himself in a nearby park. August twelfth, twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 2>was a sunny afternoon in the Turkish city of z Kisheher.

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<v Speaker 2>A teenager wearing a skull mask and a bulletproof vest

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<v Speaker 2>walked into the tea garden outside of a mosque and

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<v Speaker 2>stabbed five men before being tackled to the ground. Two

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<v Speaker 2>left a manifesto glorifying mass murder. In July of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four, a teenager in New Jersey who'd been planning

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<v Speaker 2>to destroy power substations in New Brunswick was arrested at

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<v Speaker 2>the Newark Airport before he'd fly to Ukraine to join

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<v Speaker 2>the Russian Volunteer Corps, where he hoped to learn the

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<v Speaker 2>skills he'd need to carry out acts of terror here

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<v Speaker 2>at home. These three teenagers never met, but they had

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<v Speaker 2>something in common. A murderer in Slovakia, an attempted murderer

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<v Speaker 2>in Turkey. They were alone when they walked the familiar

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<v Speaker 2>streets of their town, stalking their victims. They were alone

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<v Speaker 2>when they shocked. They were alone when they stabbed. They

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<v Speaker 2>hunted human prey as lone wolves. But there are no

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<v Speaker 2>lone wolves, not really.

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<v Speaker 3>The wolf pack is.

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<v Speaker 2>Online now, baying for more blood.

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<v Speaker 4>Between nineteen sixty eight and twenty twenty one, one hundred

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<v Speaker 4>and five white men and women of action, half tinging

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<v Speaker 4>out upon themselves, wage war against the system, and our

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<v Speaker 4>racial enemies are saying, to the best of our brothers,

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<v Speaker 4>and this is our legacy of white Terrier.

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<v Speaker 2>All three of these young men were incited to take

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<v Speaker 2>action by propaganda produced by the Terragram Collective, a one

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<v Speaker 2>synonymous group of militant neo Nazi accelerationists on the messaging

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<v Speaker 2>app telegram. All three of them were radicalized by a

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<v Speaker 2>thirty four year old dildo saleswoman from California, narrating the

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<v Speaker 2>manifestos of their idols, the mass shooters who came before them.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Molly Konger and this is weird, little guys. Urai

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<v Speaker 2>Krachik died by suicide sometime overnight after he murdered two

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<v Speaker 2>people outside of a gay bar and brought us a

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<v Speaker 2>law on October twelfth, twenty twenty two. His body was

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<v Speaker 2>found in a nearby public park early the next morning,

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<v Speaker 2>but he didn't shoot himself right away. After fleeing the scene,

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<v Speaker 2>he got online. That was where he was most at home,

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<v Speaker 2>after all, That was where he became the man he

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<v Speaker 2>was in the moment he fired those shots. A few

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<v Speaker 2>hours before the attack, he tweeted out links to his manifesto.

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<v Speaker 2>After fleeing the scene of the shooting, he went home.

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<v Speaker 2>He told his parents what he had done. They argued,

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<v Speaker 2>but no one called the police. He left a handwritten

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<v Speaker 2>suicide note, retrieved a second gun from his father's safe,

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<v Speaker 2>and left the house again. His parents were the last

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<v Speaker 2>ones to see him alive. The city was crawling with

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<v Speaker 2>police that night, They were on high alert for the shooter,

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<v Speaker 2>worried he would act again, but even now that he

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<v Speaker 2>was armed with a fresh weapon, he didn't seek out

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<v Speaker 2>more targets. Krazik walked to a local park and checked

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<v Speaker 2>four chan on his phone. People were talking about him

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<v Speaker 2>about his attack. He wanted to see what they were saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Four Chan users quickly connected the shooting to his Twitter account.

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<v Speaker 2>As he'd walked home after the attack, he tweeted hashtag

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<v Speaker 2>brought a slava feeling no regrets?

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<v Speaker 3>Isn't that funny?

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<v Speaker 2>On four Chan, they were already discussing the manifesto he'd

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<v Speaker 2>tweeted out. One poster asked why would a Slovakian write

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<v Speaker 2>his manifesto in English? And this was the first post

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<v Speaker 2>the shooter replied to He wrote, because I felt like it.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're familiar with four chan, first of all, i'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you've spent any time on there, you know

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<v Speaker 2>it's not a friendly place, and not just unfriendly to outsiders.

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<v Speaker 2>Even people who share similar ideologies are at each other's throats,

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<v Speaker 2>hurling insults, said engaging in an eternal competition to be

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<v Speaker 2>the nastiest person with an Internet connection. Posters mocked the

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<v Speaker 2>shooter for killing only two people, and asked why he'd

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<v Speaker 2>chosen such low value targets. Even as they celebrated the

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<v Speaker 2>deaths of his victims, they bullied the shooter for not

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<v Speaker 2>doing more, for not doing it better, for not doing

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<v Speaker 2>it differently. They were Monday morning quarterbacking Murder Life is

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<v Speaker 2>just a first person shooter game for the keyboard Warrior

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<v Speaker 2>mass shooting enthusiast. To these comments, Krazil replied that he'd

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to shoot the Slovakian Prime Minister at Ward Hager,

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<v Speaker 2>writing wish I could have gone higher, but whatever wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to bag the Prime Minister, but I didn't get lucky

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<v Speaker 2>with his car arriving. Later. News reports do in fact

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<v Speaker 2>confirm that he was seen that evening on security camera

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<v Speaker 2>footage outside the Prime Minister's home an hour before the shooting.

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<v Speaker 2>The same news report maps out his walk home after

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<v Speaker 2>the shooting, a route that took him through a largely

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish neighborhood. Rejik lamented on four Chan that night that

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<v Speaker 2>he had wanted to shoot the Kabbad House too, but

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<v Speaker 2>he'd run out of ammunition, writing wish I could pull

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<v Speaker 2>off more, got nearly no amm O bro posters on

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<v Speaker 2>four Chan were skeptical that the man replying to them

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<v Speaker 2>was truly the shooter himself, and demanded that he post

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<v Speaker 2>some kind of proof. A little after eleven thirty pm,

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<v Speaker 2>four hours after fleeing the scene of the shooting, he did.

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<v Speaker 2>It's dark wherever he was. You can't see anything in

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<v Speaker 2>the background. The flash illuminates only the subject of the selfie.

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<v Speaker 2>He's completely expressionless. There's no smile, no bravado, no fear even.

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<v Speaker 3>There's just nothing. He's looking straight at.

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<v Speaker 2>The camera, holding his phone with one hand and making

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<v Speaker 2>a finger gun that points directly at the viewer with

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<v Speaker 2>the other. Have a last selfie, he says. Most of

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<v Speaker 2>his posts on the four chan thread that night are

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<v Speaker 2>in English. It is the lingua franca of the site,

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<v Speaker 2>after all. But one user responds to this selfie in

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<v Speaker 2>Slovak translated. The comment reads, what happened boy? Why don't

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<v Speaker 2>you smile anymore? Reality set in? Did you fall for

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<v Speaker 2>the meme? Stupid?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>The shooter replied to that comment in Slovak, saying, speak

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<v Speaker 2>for yourself. In attaching a second selfie, he's smiling this time,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of. It's hard to say you feel any sorrow

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<v Speaker 2>for a man who just murdered two people in cold

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<v Speaker 2>blood and then logged onto four Chan to take credit

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<v Speaker 2>for it. And I don't not really not for this murderer,

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<v Speaker 2>but he was just a boy once, a boy whose

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<v Speaker 2>fake smile shows the still slightly rounded cheeks of a

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<v Speaker 2>kid who won't live to see the last adolescent changes

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<v Speaker 2>to his face. His forced smile, a smile that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>reach the eyes. That selfie taken in the dark, somewhere

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<v Speaker 2>in the trees on the edge of town will probably

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<v Speaker 2>stay with me.

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<v Speaker 3>For a while.

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<v Speaker 2>He engages with the four Chan thread for nearly an hour,

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<v Speaker 2>answering questions and repeatedly acquiescing to demands for proof that

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<v Speaker 2>it's really him. He posts a picture of a handwritten

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<v Speaker 2>note with a time and date, posts another selfie, this

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<v Speaker 2>time with his shoe on top of his head. This

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<v Speaker 2>is a common form of proof demanded on four Chan

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<v Speaker 2>to determine if you are really interacting with someone who

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<v Speaker 2>is who they say they are and in real time.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess the idea is that most people have a

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<v Speaker 2>shoe nearby, but most people don't have old photos of

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<v Speaker 2>themselves online with a shoe on their head, So if

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<v Speaker 2>you can produce such a photo on request. You probably

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<v Speaker 2>are the person in the photo and not just someone

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<v Speaker 2>using photos of a stranger that you found online. Another

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<v Speaker 2>user asks him to spell out the N word and

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<v Speaker 2>leaves on the ground and post a picture of that.

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<v Speaker 2>He says it would take too long to spell out

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<v Speaker 2>the whole word, and posts a blurry photo of leaves

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<v Speaker 2>arranged in the shape of the letter N. Another user

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<v Speaker 2>asks him what's going through your mind right now, and

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<v Speaker 2>he says, sad for my family, happy with my own life.

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing for the two f slurs soon a bit of lead.

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<v Speaker 2>Another user asks if he plans to spend decades in

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<v Speaker 2>prison or if he'll kill himself. He replies with two

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<v Speaker 2>words and hero, which is memespeak for dying by suicide.

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<v Speaker 2>His last four Chan posts was shortly before midnight. Four

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<v Speaker 2>Chan users are perpetually caught in between their desire for

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<v Speaker 2>and celebration of acts like this and their frustration that

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of thing makes them.

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<v Speaker 3>All look bad.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it makes them look like exactly what they are,

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of people goading a teenage murderer into killing

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<v Speaker 2>himself writes, you have made everyone on this board look

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<v Speaker 2>like a terrorist. Is that what you wanted? Also repent

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<v Speaker 2>hell is real? His reply his final post reads only

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<v Speaker 2>not my problem. On Twitter, his final post was a

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<v Speaker 2>little after midnight in Slovak, he wrote see you on

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<v Speaker 2>the other side. A Slovak language news report says that

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<v Speaker 2>two days before the attack, he had called a mental

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<v Speaker 2>health crisis hotline. He said, I have to die, but

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<v Speaker 2>I am very afraid, and then he hung up. But

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<v Speaker 2>in his final hours he didn't call back. He didn't

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<v Speaker 2>call that hotline. He didn't turn himself in or seek help.

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<v Speaker 2>He sought reassurance and support from the place least likely

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<v Speaker 2>to provide it. He logged onto four Chan, hoping to

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<v Speaker 2>see his acts hailed as heroic, but they.

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<v Speaker 3>Just laughed at him.

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<v Speaker 2>He was dead before terogram canonized him, placing him in

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<v Speaker 2>the Pantheon of terror. He worshiped. Authorities in Slovakia weren't

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<v Speaker 2>able to ping his cell phone location until five am.

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<v Speaker 2>The cell phone provider didn't have any employees working overnight.

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<v Speaker 2>His body was found in the park around seven am.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not clear exactly when he died, but if I

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<v Speaker 2>had to put money on it, I'd guess he died

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<v Speaker 2>in real life shortly after he logged off. He posted

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<v Speaker 2>right up through the end, and that's all we really knew.

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<v Speaker 2>In October of twenty twenty two, the manifesto was online

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<v Speaker 2>for all to see. In the manifesto, he includes the

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<v Speaker 2>Terogram Collective in his list of special thanks at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>writing you know who you are. Thank you for your

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<v Speaker 2>incredible writing and art, for your political texts, for your

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<v Speaker 2>practical guides building the future of the White Revolution one

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<v Speaker 2>publication at a time. In the section of the manifesto

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<v Speaker 2>under the header recommended reading, he lists many of the

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<v Speaker 2>usual suspects. He was inspired by the christ Church mosque

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<v Speaker 2>shooting and recommends that shooter's manifesto. He praises the terrorist's Bible,

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<v Speaker 2>William Luther Pierce's novel The Turner Diaries, and even recommends

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<v Speaker 2>the prequel, an even sloppier novel called Hunter, But he

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<v Speaker 2>also recommends two other lesser known publications, two of the

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<v Speaker 2>four publications authored by the Terragram Collective. He lists these two,

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<v Speaker 2>Militant Accelerationism and The Hard Reset, last, writing, if the

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<v Speaker 2>other books give a theoretical and fictional base for our resistance,

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<v Speaker 2>these two provide the practical means for it. They also

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<v Speaker 2>go into a deeper dive into some issues, concepts, and things.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyone who seeks to fight Zog should know. These two

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<v Speaker 2>may be harder to find than the other books I listed,

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<v Speaker 2>but you can find them if you look in the

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<v Speaker 2>right places. The link between the Brodislava shooting and the

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<v Speaker 2>Tterogram Collective was never a secret. It was right there

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<v Speaker 2>all along. He said it himself. He recommended their propaganda

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<v Speaker 2>and thanked them in the acknowledgments. But when he was

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<v Speaker 2>posting on Fortune that night he lied about something earlier

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<v Speaker 2>in this Murderer's Q and a session. Someone asked him,

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<v Speaker 2>have you been talking to some other people over telegram,

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<v Speaker 2>discord or signal? And he replies, made my own decision

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<v Speaker 2>to do this. I had barely any dms with people

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<v Speaker 2>on telegram or wherever. And he later followed up with

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<v Speaker 2>their channel owners. Hence the annan part, don't know their names.

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<v Speaker 2>They produced good content. Though Craigich was trying to backtrack

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<v Speaker 2>on his initial post that he'd exchanged direct messages with

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<v Speaker 2>anyone in the lead up to the attack, the truth,

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<v Speaker 2>as it turns out, is that he wasn't just reading

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<v Speaker 2>the material produced by the Telegram Collective he was in

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<v Speaker 2>active communication with its leaders. This age murderer in Slovakia

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't just posted his manifesto online before the attack. He'd

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<v Speaker 2>also sent it directly to someone immediately after. He wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be certain that his message got out, so he

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.800
<v Speaker 2>sent it to someone he knew would spread it, someone

0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 2>who had helped him craft it. He sent the manifesto

0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:28.160
<v Speaker 2>to Matthew Allison, a man in his thirties living in Boise, Idaho,

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.160
<v Speaker 2>earlier this month. In September of twenty twenty four, Matthew

0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Allison of Boise and Dallas Humber of Elk Grove, California,

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 2>were arrested in charge in a fifteen count indictment with

0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:43.200
<v Speaker 2>soliciting hate crimes, soliciting the murder of federal officials, interstate threats,

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 2>distributing information relating to explosives, and conspiring to provide material

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 2>support to terrorists. The pair are alleged to be the

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.600
<v Speaker 2>ringleaders of the Terragram Collective, that association of pseudonymous posters

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 2>on telegram that produced Neo Nazi acceleration propaganda and now,

0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>according to the Department of Justice, the Terogram Collective can

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:10.400
<v Speaker 2>also be called a transnational terrorist group According to the

0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 2>allegations in the indictment, Krajik was an active member of

0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the group's chat for a year.

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 3>Leading up to the shooting. And I guess I should

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.840
<v Speaker 3>back up a little bit and explain a little more.

0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 2>About what's going on in these chats, as much as

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:42.360
<v Speaker 2>I would really rather not. There are plenty of Nazi

0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 2>chat rooms. There is no shortage of places online where

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 2>a racial slur enthusiast can log on and share ideas

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 2>with other guys who hate black people and Jewish people,

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 2>and gay people, and immigrants and women and whatever. Pick

0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 2>your flavor. It's out there in abundance. This is something

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 2>much darker. These are accelerationists, people who believe their goals

0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 2>can only be achieved by driving society over the brink

0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.040
<v Speaker 2>and into total collapse.

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:12.840
<v Speaker 3>They believe that.

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Acts of mass murder, terrorism, and destruction are the necessary

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.160
<v Speaker 2>course of action to create the chaos required to allow

0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.360
<v Speaker 2>a new world to be born, a world built by

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 2>and four white men alone.

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:28.160
<v Speaker 3>And they aren't just talking about it.

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 2>The Terogram Collective has produced a series of what would

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:41.240
<v Speaker 2>you call them manuals, manifestos, zines, terrorism handbooks. They've put

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 2>out four written publications in one short documentary, all directed

0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 2>at providing both inspiration and explicit instruction on how their

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 2>followers can commit acts of unspeakable violence. In their online spaces,

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 2>past acts are celebrated. One of the core elements of

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 2>the group's ship language is this pantheon of saints. It's

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:11.000
<v Speaker 2>not the saints you're thinking of. This is a gruesome hagiography.

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.840
<v Speaker 2>They've canonized mass shooters. They celebrate the Saint Day of

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.560
<v Speaker 2>each shooter on the day of their atrocity. Robert Bowers, Unders,

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Bravic Dylan Rue, Brenton, Terran, Patrick Crusius, Anton London Patterson,

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.360
<v Speaker 2>murderers from infamous to obscure murderers from all over the world.

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:37.880
<v Speaker 2>The criteria for sainthood are fivefold, race, motive, intent, score,

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:43.720
<v Speaker 2>and worldview. The prospective saint must, of course, be white.

0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 2>There is occasionally some debate in the Nazi community about

0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:51.160
<v Speaker 2>whether they should offer their begrudging respect for non white

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.360
<v Speaker 2>mass murderers, who nevertheless kill large numbers of people they

0:17:54.359 --> 0:18:00.239
<v Speaker 2>deem worthy targets, but the answer is generally no. They

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 2>would celebrate something like the Pulse night club shooting, which

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>killed nearly fifty people, most of whom were both Latino

0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and members of the queer community. That perpetrator cannot be

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.119
<v Speaker 2>celebrated as a saint because he fails the first test.

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:19.399
<v Speaker 2>He isn't white. Intent, motive, and worldview all feel like

0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 2>they kind of describe the same thing. So I'm not

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.360
<v Speaker 2>sure why there are five criteria when they probably could

0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 2>have condensed it down to three. But the attack must

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>be deliberate, that's intent, committed in the spirit of our struggle,

0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 2>that's motive, and be motivated by a white nationalist ideology.

0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.879
<v Speaker 2>Though they are willing to make some exceptions. There's a

0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 2>little wiggle room here for attacks that are right wing

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:50.440
<v Speaker 2>but not explicitly neo Nazi. And score means exactly what

0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:56.240
<v Speaker 2>you probably think it means. They're keeping score, they're counting bodies.

0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes if you log into the worst kind of place

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>during an active attack or in the immediate aftermath of one,

0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 2>you'll see eager speculation that someone could be getting a

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.240
<v Speaker 2>new high score, like it's some kind of video game.

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 2>And there are no exceptions to this requirement. You cannot

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 2>become a Terogram saint with a score of zero. Someone

0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 2>has to die. These ideas didn't originate with Matthew Allison

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and Dallas Humber. Both of them have been members of

0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.359
<v Speaker 2>this online community for years since at least twenty nineteen.

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty two, after the arrest of one of

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 2>the community's most prolific posters, they became the group's leaders.

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 2>A user who posted as Slovak bro Pavel Benedick, was

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.760
<v Speaker 2>arrested in Slovakia in early twenty twenty two and eventually

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 2>sentenced to six years in prison for his support of

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.639
<v Speaker 2>terrorism and Slovak Brough isn't the only Terogram author to

0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>land himself in prison. Brandon Russell, the Adam Woffin founder,

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.959
<v Speaker 2>currently awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy to blow up

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the power grid in Baltimore, was in close communication with

0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>members of the group before and after his arrest. He

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>appears to have participated in the creation of at least

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 2>some of the group's work. Two men in Canada were

0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 2>arrested last fall, with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police press

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 2>release alleging that they too had participated in the creation

0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:27.359
<v Speaker 2>of Tarogram manifestos. Their cases are ongoing and subject to

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.920
<v Speaker 2>a publication ban in Canada, so the extent of their

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.680
<v Speaker 2>involvement and the possibility that revelations in those cases had

0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.119
<v Speaker 2>some bearing on the investigation here in the US is

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:41.400
<v Speaker 2>unknown right now. As the leaders of the Tarogram collective,

0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Dallas Humber and Matthew Allison, are alleged to have directly

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.719
<v Speaker 2>contributed to acts of terrorism.

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:47.520
<v Speaker 3>All over the world.

0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Their publications provided detailed instructions on how to make bombs,

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 2>how to make napalm at home with materials you can

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.000
<v Speaker 2>buy at the hardware store, the most efficient way to

0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 2>destroy an electrical substation with rifle fire, and how to

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.159
<v Speaker 2>identify the most valuable targets in your area, targets that

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 2>could be infrastructure or human. They maintained a document called

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the List, a list of high value assassination targets. For

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.280
<v Speaker 2>each name on the list, there was a little graphic

0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 2>like a trading card. The target's name, home address, and

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.159
<v Speaker 2>photograph were always featured, along with the reasons why they

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 2>were considered an enemy of the cause. Those reasons, as

0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:33.840
<v Speaker 2>you might expect, tended to be related to the target's identity.

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.240
<v Speaker 2>They're Jewish, they're gay, they're an immigrant, or some other

0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:43.639
<v Speaker 2>kind of undesirable in their eyes. The names on the

0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.560
<v Speaker 2>list include senators, judges, a former federal prosecutor, state and

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>local government officials, and non profit employees. In their chats,

0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.360
<v Speaker 2>they posted the list often, and would sometimes post individual

0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:00.919
<v Speaker 2>members of the list alongside encouragement to take action. In

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 2>one exchange described in the indictment, a member of the

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.480
<v Speaker 2>group chat asked if there were any members of the

0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:09.520
<v Speaker 2>list located in his area. The administrator of the group

0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:11.960
<v Speaker 2>responded with a trading card image for a target in

0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.879
<v Speaker 2>a city in the poster's area. The user replied, we

0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 2>already have this one, and asked the channel administrator to

0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.159
<v Speaker 2>tag him if any new names were added to the

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 2>list in his area. A user the government alleges is Dallas.

0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Humber replied, we'll do. A week later, she tagged that

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.679
<v Speaker 2>same user with a new name in the same city.

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.480
<v Speaker 2>He replied, very good, I'll check in with my guys now.

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.239
<v Speaker 2>And it wasn't just members of the list who were

0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:45.000
<v Speaker 2>in danger. Humber and Allison would routinely remind members of

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the group of the kinds of targets they should be

0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.679
<v Speaker 2>seeking out. In June of twenty twenty three, Humber posted

0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>numerous exhortations to followers that they should be targeting Gay

0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Pride Month events, writing in one post.

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:03.879
<v Speaker 1>Mass shootings, arson bombings, vehicle tax The list goes on,

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:08.520
<v Speaker 1>and the opportunities provided to you this month will be plentiful.

0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Don't let them go to waste. What's more impactful boycotting

0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.639
<v Speaker 1>target or getting dozens of targets in your sights and

0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:22.200
<v Speaker 1>taking them out permanently. Actions speak louder than words. Direct

0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 1>lethal action speaks louder than any boycott. This Pride month,

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>give us what we truly need, a new saint to

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 1>be proud of and a glorious new attack to celebrate.

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.720
<v Speaker 1>You've got the means an opportunity. All you need is

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:39.880
<v Speaker 1>the will. Don't breathe a word of what you're planning

0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:45.040
<v Speaker 1>to anyone, and make it count.

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Make it count. That's a frequent refrain. Make it Count

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.840
<v Speaker 2>as the title of one of the group's terrorism manuals.

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 2>It's also the final line of the broadess Lava Shooters Manifesto.

0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.320
<v Speaker 2>The line itself comes from seed the collected essays of

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.760
<v Speaker 2>James Mason. If the Turner Diaries is their Bible, siege

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:10.240
<v Speaker 2>is perhaps a missile or a brevery. Maybe the analogy

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:13.919
<v Speaker 2>doesn't hold. I don't know, but Mason is the godfather

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 2>of modern fascist terrorism read Siege was such a constant

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.600
<v Speaker 2>directive in so many Nazi chats for so long that

0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:24.520
<v Speaker 2>it's more of a meme than an actual instruction. At

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.920
<v Speaker 2>this point. Mason wrote the Siege newsletter throughout the early

0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:31.960
<v Speaker 2>to mid eighties. The essays were collected and published in

0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:34.960
<v Speaker 2>book form in the early nineties, but the text languished

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:37.919
<v Speaker 2>in relative obscurity until it was rediscovered by users of

0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the Nazi forum Iron March in the early twenty tens.

0:24:41.600 --> 0:24:43.960
<v Speaker 2>It's no coincidence that Adam Wafflin was born on the

0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.400
<v Speaker 2>pages of that forum, in the bubbling ideological soup where

0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 2>young men were exchanging their favorite passages of Siege. It's

0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:56.159
<v Speaker 2>a messy sprawling six hundred or so pages, depending on

0:24:56.200 --> 0:25:00.399
<v Speaker 2>the addition you've bootlegged from some terrorism chat room. It's

0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:04.640
<v Speaker 2>mostly useless ramblings. There's a lot of repetitive content. It

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 2>wasn't written to be a book, to be fair. The

0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:11.479
<v Speaker 2>line make it count comes from the end of the

0:25:11.520 --> 0:25:15.840
<v Speaker 2>August nineteen eighty two newsletter, in a missive titled Biting

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.720
<v Speaker 2>the Bullet. Like much of the avice in Siege, this

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:23.879
<v Speaker 2>essay is about taking action, about choosing the time, the target,

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:26.439
<v Speaker 2>and the circumstances of your attack on the system, because

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:31.320
<v Speaker 2>you may only get one chance to strike. The essay concludes,

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 2>quote in revolution, the price of failure generally is death.

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:40.359
<v Speaker 2>So whatever you do, and whatever course you choose, don't

0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:46.360
<v Speaker 2>sell yourself cheap. Make it count. Make it count. The

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Collective's Terrorism Guide by the same name and The Hard

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:54.639
<v Speaker 2>Reset both contain diagrams of electrical transformers and instructions for

0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 2>damaging them, released around the same time, both in June

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty two. Make It Counts a light fourteen pages.

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 2>It's more propaganda than manual. The page titled Blackout is

0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:11.520
<v Speaker 2>dominated by a large graphic of a rifle with a

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 2>scope and big neon text that reads, in all caps,

0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:22.879
<v Speaker 2>locate substation, range find shoot transformers, flee undetected, which I

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:27.240
<v Speaker 2>guess are technically instructions. They're just not very good ones.

0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:31.760
<v Speaker 2>The Hard Reset, on the other hand, is a nearly

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:37.439
<v Speaker 2>three hundred page compilation of essays, graphics, manuals, and just

0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:40.600
<v Speaker 2>a nightmarish collection of fonts and colors that would make

0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:44.879
<v Speaker 2>a graphic designer weep around. Halfway through, there's a section

0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:50.360
<v Speaker 2>containing incredibly detailed instructions, complete with diagrams for sabotaging all

0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:53.800
<v Speaker 2>manner of infrastructure, how to derail a train, how to

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:56.960
<v Speaker 2>damage a cell phone tower, things to consider when bombing

0:26:57.000 --> 0:27:00.240
<v Speaker 2>a truck depot, ways you might contaminate a municipal water

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:04.240
<v Speaker 2>treatment planned, and of course four pages of advice on

0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:09.679
<v Speaker 2>sabotaging the power grid. Alongside mass shootings, attacks on the

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:13.600
<v Speaker 2>power grid are the group's favorite fixation. We talked a

0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:16.120
<v Speaker 2>little bit about the concept in another episode a few

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:19.720
<v Speaker 2>weeks ago, Lights Out about the Nazi paramilitary marines who

0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:22.760
<v Speaker 2>hope to knock out power in the Pacific Northwest. They

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:26.040
<v Speaker 2>thought it would provide cover for a planned series of assassinations.

0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Those guys never got a chance to read the Terragram

0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:33.159
<v Speaker 2>collective manuals on the subject, they were arrested before they

0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:36.679
<v Speaker 2>were written. But as I said in an episode, this

0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 2>idea has been popular in right wing circles for decades.

0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Take out the power, chaos ensues, something something step three,

0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:52.120
<v Speaker 2>then race war. The middle part never really gets fleshed out,

0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 2>but they all seem very convinced that something happens right

0:27:55.720 --> 0:28:00.200
<v Speaker 2>after it gets dark that causes a race war. I'm

0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 2>not really sold on that logic, but they are bound

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:07.520
<v Speaker 2>and determined to put holes in a substation. Nevertheless, the

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 2>indictment lists numerous occasions on which Dallas Humber encourages her

0:28:11.040 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 2>followers to take the advice provided in the manuals and

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 2>attack the grid. In December of twenty twenty two, after

0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 2>these still unsolved attacks on electrical infrastructure in Jones County,

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.920
<v Speaker 2>North Carolina on November eleventh, and Moore County on December third,

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Humber posted encouragement for anyone planning a similar grid attack,

0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:32.960
<v Speaker 2>advising them not to let second thoughts or fear of failure,

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.479
<v Speaker 2>or fear of getting caught demotivate them. Do not let

0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 2>this big mistake happen to you, she wrote in all caps,

0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:43.719
<v Speaker 2>reminding them to have a plan, carry it out, and

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 2>keep their mouths shut. A few days later, she wrote.

0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that person could be you lining up your sights

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:54.960
<v Speaker 1>on these metal behemoths from the tree line, squeezing the

0:28:55.000 --> 0:28:58.320
<v Speaker 1>trigger and retreating from the area with a shitting grin

0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 1>on your face, knowing the chaos you've just unleashed.

0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 2>And after a third still unsolved attack was carried out

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:09.240
<v Speaker 2>just a month later in Randolph County, North Carolina, Humber posted.

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Again everyone please take a moment to congratulate yourselves. It

0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:17.720
<v Speaker 1>seems as though this avenue of attack, an incredibly effective

0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:20.680
<v Speaker 1>one at that has really caught on. I like to

0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:23.640
<v Speaker 1>think that all our hard work in detailing its effectiveness

0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 1>and showing our community how easy it is not only

0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 1>to do but to get away with, has helped encourage

0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 1>this death to the grid, death to the system.

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:39.440
<v Speaker 2>So the Terrogram Collective isn't exactly taking credit for the

0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>grid attacks in North Carolina, but they aren't not taking

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>credit for it either. She does credit herself and the

0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 2>group with popularizing the idea. She speculates that perhaps the

0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:55.240
<v Speaker 2>attacker or attackers had read her work, read her words,

0:29:55.320 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>and listened to her voice and decided to act, But

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 2>there's no claim made that she knows who did it,

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 2>and maybe she doesn't. We don't actually know whether these

0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.520
<v Speaker 2>attacks were committed by someone inspired by the Terrogram Collective

0:30:10.960 --> 0:30:15.120
<v Speaker 2>at all, even if they were ideologically motivated. She didn't

0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:18.400
<v Speaker 2>invent the idea, and a similar attack out in Washington

0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 2>State during the same time period was actually committed by

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:23.560
<v Speaker 2>a pair of would be thieves who thought they could

0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:26.080
<v Speaker 2>get cash out of ATMs during a power outage, So

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe it wasn't a terrorist at all, but if it was,

0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>it is entirely possible that an attacker inspired by her

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 2>work was operating based off of a one directional relationship,

0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:42.800
<v Speaker 2>that this person consumed the content and acted on it

0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 2>without ever actually having a conversation with the author. We

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't learn until much later, though, that this wasn't the

0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:54.600
<v Speaker 2>case with the shooting in Broadislava, and we do know

0:30:54.680 --> 0:30:57.520
<v Speaker 2>that at least one would be grid attacker was definitely

0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:01.000
<v Speaker 2>in that chat and definitely in communit vacation with the

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Tarogram collective. Andrew Takestov was arrested in July of twenty

0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:22.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty four at the Newark Airport. He was on his

0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:24.880
<v Speaker 2>way to Ukraine to join the Russian Volunteer Corps, a

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 2>neo Nazi paramilitary group of Russian citizens inside Ukraine who

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 2>opposed the Putin government Takeistov had been a member of

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 2>the Tarogram collective chat since at least January of twenty

0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:38.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty four, and in January of twenty twenty four he

0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:42.880
<v Speaker 2>made a new friend online. It isn't stated outright in

0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:46.080
<v Speaker 2>his charging documents or in the cases against Humber and Allison,

0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 2>but it sounds like he made this friend in the

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Tterogram chat, and this friend turned out to be an

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 2>undercover FBI agent around this same time. In January of

0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:02.560
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four, Takeistov asks in the Terogram chat for

0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:08.920
<v Speaker 2>recommendations for quote documentaries about our guys made by our guys,

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 2>and he asks if anyone has more content like White Terror,

0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 2>which is the twenty four minute documentary the Collective put

0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:19.720
<v Speaker 2>out in October of twenty twenty two. The video is

0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 2>a compilation of descriptions of over one hundred white supremacist

0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 2>attacks carried out between nineteen sixty eight and twenty twenty two.

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:30.440
<v Speaker 2>It is, in their words, their litany of the Saints.

0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Humber narrates the video herself. She is the voice of Terogram,

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.640
<v Speaker 2>but she's not very skilled voice actor, and that's not

0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:44.440
<v Speaker 2>just my opinion. The website Militant Wire, a publication that

0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:46.960
<v Speaker 2>writes about political violence all over the world, wrote of

0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>her narration.

0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:53.320
<v Speaker 5>It is both striking and seemingly incongruous to the material

0:32:53.840 --> 0:32:57.480
<v Speaker 5>the way a young, average female voice, devoid of ghoulish

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:02.000
<v Speaker 5>stylization or of discernible malice and hatred, not only celebrates

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.440
<v Speaker 5>acts of terrorism while parroting well established neo Nazi tropes

0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 5>and slogans, but perhaps most of all, the unburden and

0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.080
<v Speaker 5>rather natural way that this young woman uses the most

0:33:11.080 --> 0:33:15.600
<v Speaker 5>cutting of racial slurs and homophobic pejoratives. It is one

0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 5>thing to see edgy young men describe mass murder Dylan

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:21.280
<v Speaker 5>Rufe as Saint Rufe on a message board, for example,

0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:23.560
<v Speaker 5>and quite another to hear a young woman say it

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:27.800
<v Speaker 5>aloud and without traceable irony.

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:34.680
<v Speaker 2>She sounds bored as she lists shootings, bombings, arsons and stabbings,

0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 2>just droning out this list of the dead. The video

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>was published just days after the shooting in broad us Lava,

0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:44.280
<v Speaker 2>but it had already been finalized before the attack, so

0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 2>he's not in it. The list of their murderer's heroes

0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:51.320
<v Speaker 2>ends with the Buffalo Supermarket shooter from May of twenty

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:55.600
<v Speaker 2>twenty two, but the video concludes with Humber's deadpan reading

0:33:55.760 --> 0:34:00.680
<v Speaker 2>of an ominous message. The list is always growing, and

0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you could join it.

0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 4>And to the saints of tomorrow watching this today, know

0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:11.200
<v Speaker 4>that when you succeed, you will be celebrated with reverence,

0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:14.840
<v Speaker 4>and your sacrifice will not be in vain. Hail the saints,

0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:17.759
<v Speaker 4>and hail are glorious. And bloody legacy of white hair.

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>When Takestav asked if they had any more content like

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:30.240
<v Speaker 2>that video, Humber replied with a file an audio recording

0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:35.799
<v Speaker 2>of her reading the Jacksonville Dollar General Shooters Manifesto. The manifesto,

0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 2>entitled A White Boy Summer to Remember, had just been

0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:43.520
<v Speaker 2>released that month by the Jacksonville Sheriff's Department. Humber quickly

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:46.719
<v Speaker 2>recorded the audiobook version for the Teogram Collective, as she

0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:50.800
<v Speaker 2>had with many manifestos before it. Her audio recording of

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.359
<v Speaker 2>the Broados Lava Shooters Manifesto was released to the chat

0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:56.600
<v Speaker 2>within a week of that attack, just as she'd promised

0:34:56.640 --> 0:35:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Kraigik it would be before he died a few months later.

0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:05.040
<v Speaker 2>In April of twenty twenty four, Takistov posted again thanking

0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Humber for links to videos providing instructions on attacking energy facilities.

0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:12.680
<v Speaker 2>One video in particular had instructions for using my lar

0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:16.880
<v Speaker 2>balloons to damage power lines. Their conductive metal surface can

0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:20.040
<v Speaker 2>start a fire when it comes into contact with electrical infrastructure.

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Takistanv was so pleased with this advice, it seems that

0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:28.840
<v Speaker 2>he thought he might like to try it. Later that summer,

0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:30.960
<v Speaker 2>he met up with his new friend from the chat room,

0:35:31.440 --> 0:35:35.560
<v Speaker 2>though one he didn't know as an undercover FBI agent. Together,

0:35:35.640 --> 0:35:40.280
<v Speaker 2>they drove around New Jersey looking at substations. Takistov proudly

0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:42.520
<v Speaker 2>shared the instructions for how to carry out the attack,

0:35:43.080 --> 0:35:45.680
<v Speaker 2>directing his friend to use my lar balloons to short

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:49.359
<v Speaker 2>circuit the transformer. He followed up by sending his friend

0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:53.200
<v Speaker 2>a copy of the hard Reset, telling him quote, it's

0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:55.920
<v Speaker 2>really the only thing you need. It has ideology, it

0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.880
<v Speaker 2>has how two guides, it has ideas for funny things.

0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:01.439
<v Speaker 3>It goes into how you should plan it.

0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:05.719
<v Speaker 2>It really goes into the thought process. Takustov told the

0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 2>agent his new friend that his plan was to fly

0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:12.319
<v Speaker 2>to Ukraine and volunteer with the Russian Volunteer Corps. He'd

0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 2>chosen that group in particular because, according to the indictment quote,

0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>the group was openly national socialist and more importantly, specialized

0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:25.839
<v Speaker 2>in assassinations, attacks on power grids and other infrastructure sabotage.

0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:29.040
<v Speaker 2>So he hoped to go over there, get some training,

0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:32.600
<v Speaker 2>do a little fighting, and then return home with new

0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:37.399
<v Speaker 2>skills he could use here. He instructed his new friend

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 2>not to be idle in his absence that while Takistov

0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:43.359
<v Speaker 2>was gone, he expected his new friend to carry out

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.560
<v Speaker 2>at least one attack, perhaps the attack on the substation

0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:50.920
<v Speaker 2>they'd been discussing. He also recommended getting a rifle and

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:55.800
<v Speaker 2>a cheap burner phone. The burner phone wasn't for communication, though,

0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:58.600
<v Speaker 2>it was to be used to determine if a cell

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:01.400
<v Speaker 2>tower had been sufficiently dead imaged by rifle rounds that

0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.799
<v Speaker 2>it no longer transmitted a signal. So you take the

0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:08.360
<v Speaker 2>phone out, you start shooting at the tower, and if

0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:14.160
<v Speaker 2>the phone still has bars, keep shooting. In July, just

0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:16.680
<v Speaker 2>a few days before he would board the plane to Ukraine,

0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Takistav met up with his new friend one last time.

0:37:20.520 --> 0:37:22.319
<v Speaker 2>This time they drove out to a warehouse full of

0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:26.080
<v Speaker 2>trucking equipment. Takistov explained to the undercover agent how he

0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 2>should access the facility to damage equipment with a Molotov cocktail.

0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:35.840
<v Speaker 2>He also suggested some strategies for derailing trains. He essentially

0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 2>talked through almost all of the infrastructure related attacks suggested

0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:43.239
<v Speaker 2>by the Terogram collective publication that he'd already shared with

0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 2>the agent, and then he tried to get on a plane.

0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:52.279
<v Speaker 2>Takistov did not make his flight. On July tenth, he

0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:53.560
<v Speaker 2>was arrested at the airport.

0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:55.440
<v Speaker 3>He's not due back.

0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 2>In court until October, but he is the attacker too

0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:01.880
<v Speaker 2>listed in the indict against Dallas Humber and Matthew Allison.

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>That indictment lists three individuals that the government is confident

0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 2>they can prove were incited to action directly by the

0:38:10.120 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Terogram Collective. Attacker IE is the broadest lava shooter. Attacker

0:38:16.160 --> 0:38:18.840
<v Speaker 2>three is the teenager who stabbed five men outside of

0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:22.480
<v Speaker 2>a mosque in Turkey last month. He was taken into

0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:25.240
<v Speaker 2>custody alive, and as far as reporting I can find,

0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:29.440
<v Speaker 2>all of his victims are expected to survive. The teenager,

0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.880
<v Speaker 2>identified by Turkish press only by his first name and

0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:37.640
<v Speaker 2>last initial, Arda K, was acknowledged by the Terogram Collective

0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:39.760
<v Speaker 2>but not canonized as a saint.

0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:41.440
<v Speaker 3>He failed.

0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Although his intent, ideology, and worldview are consistent with the

0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:49.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of murderer they're looking for, the teenager failed to

0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:52.839
<v Speaker 2>take any lives, and more importantly.

0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:54.759
<v Speaker 3>He isn't white.

0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:59.279
<v Speaker 2>After the attack, Dallas Humber wrote in the chat he

0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:02.359
<v Speaker 2>included the terror books and other saint manifestos in his file.

0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Dump gives shout outs to the other saints in his

0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:09.600
<v Speaker 2>manifesto and references several hard Reset passages. He was one

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent our guy. But he's not white, so I

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:17.800
<v Speaker 2>can't give him an honorary title. We can still celebrate

0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:22.960
<v Speaker 2>his attack, though he did it for Terogram. She followed

0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:26.120
<v Speaker 2>up later on writing we can hail him anyway. We

0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:29.239
<v Speaker 2>just can't add him to the pantheon. But yeah, it's

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:33.120
<v Speaker 2>a great development regardless. Inspiring more attacks is the goal,

0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:37.800
<v Speaker 2>and anyone claiming to be an accelerationist should support them.

0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:40.680
<v Speaker 2>It isn't specified in the court documents whether our Decae

0:39:40.840 --> 0:39:43.799
<v Speaker 2>had ever directly participated in the Tarogram collective chats, but

0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:48.160
<v Speaker 2>he certainly read their work. He wasn't just inspired by

0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:52.600
<v Speaker 2>some shared ideology. He cites them directly in this manifesto.

0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:59.360
<v Speaker 2>His manifesto, however, is written in Turkish, which you'd expect

0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:04.319
<v Speaker 2>because there's something a little strange about the manifesto Uraikrazech

0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:10.560
<v Speaker 2>left behind. It's in English. That's not entirely extraordinary. He

0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:13.840
<v Speaker 2>spoke English, though he'd never spent any time in an

0:40:13.880 --> 0:40:16.720
<v Speaker 2>English speaking country. He probably would have learned it in school.

0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:20.760
<v Speaker 2>He watched American television shows and movies. He had access

0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:24.760
<v Speaker 2>to American music. He participated in online spaces where English

0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:30.600
<v Speaker 2>is the primary language. But the manifesto is in perfect English.

0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:34.920
<v Speaker 2>And I don't mean perfect English like from a textbook,

0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:39.960
<v Speaker 2>something you could achieve through study. It's native English. It

0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 2>has idioms and terms of phrase and even mistakes that

0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:48.919
<v Speaker 2>only a native English speaker would really use. And that's

0:40:48.920 --> 0:40:52.960
<v Speaker 2>not my opinion. According to an analysis by forensic linguist

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Julia Kupper published by the Accelerationism Research Consortium, the manifesto

0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:01.600
<v Speaker 2>was almost certainly written by a native English speaker who

0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>grew up in the United States, probably someone with a

0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:08.720
<v Speaker 2>good education, and someone a bit older than Crazick, someone

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:13.919
<v Speaker 2>maybe in their forties. The obvious answer then is, well,

0:41:13.920 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 2>he plagiarized it, right. It's copy paste, and that's surprisingly common.

0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:22.959
<v Speaker 2>A lot of manifestos lift large portions of their text

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:29.680
<v Speaker 2>from other similar documents. But Copper checked he hadn't. This

0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:33.080
<v Speaker 2>isn't copy pasta, this isn't someone else's manifesto. This was

0:41:33.120 --> 0:41:38.280
<v Speaker 2>an original work, but Crechick couldn't have written it. Copper

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.640
<v Speaker 2>conducted a forensic linguistic analysis on the manifesto. The handwritten

0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:46.520
<v Speaker 2>suicide note several hundred tweets from his account and the

0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:50.360
<v Speaker 2>four chan posts made the night of the shooting. She

0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:53.239
<v Speaker 2>concluded that a second author was involved in both the

0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 2>manifesto and some of the tweets, but that the four

0:41:57.160 --> 0:42:01.600
<v Speaker 2>chan posts and the suicide note were written by him alone.

0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:05.120
<v Speaker 2>According to Covers analysis, there are some telltale signs of

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.920
<v Speaker 2>two writers at work. When Krajik posted a photo on

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:11.120
<v Speaker 2>fourtune that night to prove he was who he said

0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.600
<v Speaker 2>he was, he showed a handwritten note with the date

0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:17.960
<v Speaker 2>on it, and we know he wrote this himself, and

0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:22.719
<v Speaker 2>in European fashion, he wrote the date day, month year,

0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:29.839
<v Speaker 2>not month day year, as Americans would do. The manifesto,

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 2>though uses an American date format. In his tweets, there

0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.040
<v Speaker 2>are style shifts that seem to indicate two people may

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:40.800
<v Speaker 2>have had access to the account. Changes in tone and vocabulary,

0:42:40.800 --> 0:42:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and the way that punctuation is used, shifting between the

0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:47.640
<v Speaker 2>European style and the American style of where commas and

0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:51.719
<v Speaker 2>periods go on either side of a quotation or parentheses.

0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:55.759
<v Speaker 2>The American English style of formatting began appearing in the

0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:59.279
<v Speaker 2>tweets in May of twenty twenty two, the month he

0:42:59.280 --> 0:43:01.960
<v Speaker 2>claims he began working on the manifesto and the plan

0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:07.040
<v Speaker 2>in Earnest. Kupper's report was published in early twenty twenty three,

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 2>just six months after the attack and more than a

0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:12.480
<v Speaker 2>year before the extent of Crojick's involvement with the terrogram

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:17.080
<v Speaker 2>chat administrators came to light after their arrests. It raises

0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:21.520
<v Speaker 2>some questions we may not get answers to. Perhaps the

0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:24.720
<v Speaker 2>criminal proceedings against Alison and Humber will result in Twitter

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:28.120
<v Speaker 2>producing some records that could show more than one person

0:43:28.360 --> 0:43:33.279
<v Speaker 2>logging into the account, but maybe not. There may be

0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:39.600
<v Speaker 2>no satisfying conclusion to this mystery. But if an older, educated,

0:43:40.120 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 2>native English speaking American author wrote most of that manifesto,

0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:48.200
<v Speaker 2>it certainly confers some responsibility onto that author for the

0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:52.680
<v Speaker 2>attack that accompanied it. The co author of the manifesto

0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:56.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't pull the trigger, but they may as well have.

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.680
<v Speaker 2>If Humber and Allison are being prosecuted for their contributions

0:44:00.719 --> 0:44:03.799
<v Speaker 2>to this attack, in particular, whether or not they had

0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 2>fore knowledge whether or not they participated in the crafting

0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:10.120
<v Speaker 2>of this manifesto would be a significant factor in the prosecution.

0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:15.960
<v Speaker 2>But who are these people? Who is Matthew Allison, Who

0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:19.120
<v Speaker 2>is Dallas Humber? How did they end up running a

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.959
<v Speaker 2>transnational terrorist organization that goads young men into committing acts

0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:27.760
<v Speaker 2>of terrorism? Matthew Allison wasn't revealed as a Terrogram collective

0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 2>administrator until this indictment was unsealed. We didn't know his

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:36.239
<v Speaker 2>name until he was arrested, but Dallas Humber was unmasked

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:41.279
<v Speaker 2>a year and a half ago. Researchers at Left Coast

0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Right Watch and independent investigative journalism outlet covering politics and

0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:50.840
<v Speaker 2>extremism identified Humber in March of twenty twenty three. The

0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:54.120
<v Speaker 2>story was confirmed and re reported by Huffington Post soon after.

0:44:55.560 --> 0:45:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Dallas Humber was miss Gorehound the Voice of Terror. The

0:45:02.120 --> 0:45:04.759
<v Speaker 2>story is a truly bizarre one. I'll link it in

0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:06.960
<v Speaker 2>the show notes, and I highly recommend checking out this

0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:10.120
<v Speaker 2>story in particular and Left Coast Right Watch in general.

0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:14.000
<v Speaker 2>They were able to locate the earliest days of Humber's

0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:18.440
<v Speaker 2>journey to becoming the Voice of White Terror. When she

0:45:18.520 --> 0:45:21.000
<v Speaker 2>was just thirteen, she was active on sites like deviant

0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Art and live journal, where she described herself as a

0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:29.400
<v Speaker 2>hopeless fangirl for serial killers. Their digital archaeology shows that

0:45:29.480 --> 0:45:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Humber has been making fan art for murderers for over

0:45:32.560 --> 0:45:37.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty years. She was describing herself as a National Socialist

0:45:37.480 --> 0:45:39.640
<v Speaker 2>in her online journal as early as two thousand and four,

0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:43.360
<v Speaker 2>when she was just fourteen. By twenty fourteen, she was

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:45.720
<v Speaker 2>using one of the monikers she carried through to the present,

0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:51.399
<v Speaker 2>little Miss Gorehound. Quoting from lcrw's twenty twenty three write

0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:55.439
<v Speaker 2>up on Humber quote, her earliest interest in gurro art

0:45:55.760 --> 0:45:59.839
<v Speaker 2>had become a full blown gore fetish. In its purest form,

0:46:00.040 --> 0:46:03.560
<v Speaker 2>guro is meant to simultaneously evoke a sense of eroticism

0:46:03.640 --> 0:46:08.680
<v Speaker 2>and grotesqueness. It's meant to make the viewer uncomfortable. At

0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:12.240
<v Speaker 2>its worst, it can only be described as hen Tai snuff.

0:46:13.680 --> 0:46:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Nearly all of her art from this period features abused women.

0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:19.719
<v Speaker 2>LCRW has chosen not to share the images as they

0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:24.839
<v Speaker 2>depict scenes of torture, dismemberment, and explicit sexual violence. For

0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:27.160
<v Speaker 2>the most part, the only women that aren't being subjected

0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:30.840
<v Speaker 2>to violence and brutality are perpetuating it against other women.

0:46:32.120 --> 0:46:36.080
<v Speaker 2>The men, however, are portrayed as strong, powerful, and heroic,

0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:40.520
<v Speaker 2>and by twenty nineteen, Humber had found her new online

0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:45.960
<v Speaker 2>home terrogram her now nearly twenty year old hobby of

0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:48.720
<v Speaker 2>creating gore art was right at home in an online

0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:53.160
<v Speaker 2>community devoted to celebrating mass murder. And now she wasn't

0:46:53.160 --> 0:46:58.920
<v Speaker 2>just drawing pictures of killers, she was drawing pictures for them.

0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:02.560
<v Speaker 2>She posted photos on Telegram of her correspondence with convicted

0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:07.960
<v Speaker 2>mass murderer Dylan Rufe. Several outlets have reported on these letters,

0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and they do point out that they were unable to

0:47:10.480 --> 0:47:14.400
<v Speaker 2>confirm with prison officials how often Humber was corresponding with Rufe,

0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:17.600
<v Speaker 2>but the images she posted matched the handwriting and style

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:22.040
<v Speaker 2>of known samples of Roof's letters. In one letter she posted,

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Rufe requests a drawing from her. He asks for quote

0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:31.960
<v Speaker 2>a wizard with mean slash, unfriendly eyebrows or a dragon

0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:35.640
<v Speaker 2>or an unfriendly eyebrowed wizard writing a dragon.

0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:38.440
<v Speaker 3>End quote.

0:47:38.719 --> 0:47:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I hope that's the only time I ever have to

0:47:40.400 --> 0:47:45.360
<v Speaker 2>quote Dylan Roof. The little Miss Gorehound account posted a

0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.440
<v Speaker 2>photo of the finished drawing of the unfriendly looking wizard

0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:55.960
<v Speaker 2>with the caption finished Dylan's Wizard hashtag Saint Mail. She

0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:59.320
<v Speaker 2>also claimed to have written cards to Brenton Tarrant, imprisoned

0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:01.960
<v Speaker 2>in New Zealand. The murders of fifty one worshippers at

0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:06.480
<v Speaker 2>mosques in christ Church and to Anders Bravic, imprisoned in

0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Norway for the murder of seventy seven people, most of

0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>whom were children. It's unclear what, if anything, Humber does

0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:17.799
<v Speaker 2>for a day job these days, but lcrw is write

0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:21.239
<v Speaker 2>up uncovered that for many years she made a living

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:27.840
<v Speaker 2>as a dildo saleswoman using the pseudonym techs Hunter. But

0:48:27.920 --> 0:48:35.239
<v Speaker 2>after that article was published, nothing happened, nothing changed. We

0:48:35.320 --> 0:48:39.120
<v Speaker 2>knew who she was, but nobody made a move to intervene,

0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:43.720
<v Speaker 2>and she carried on as she always had. Shannon Foley

0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Martinez told Huffington Post back in March of twenty twenty

0:48:46.280 --> 0:48:49.839
<v Speaker 2>three that quote, it is an absolute given that terrogram

0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:54.480
<v Speaker 2>will inspire more shootings if left unchecked, and she's in

0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:57.360
<v Speaker 2>the heartbreaking position of knowing exactly what she's talking about.

0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Shannon was radicalized by a boyfriend as a teenager, but

0:49:00.960 --> 0:49:03.880
<v Speaker 2>quickly left the movement and has since dedicated decades of

0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:05.879
<v Speaker 2>her life to the ugly work of trying to keep

0:49:05.920 --> 0:49:08.879
<v Speaker 2>other people's children from falling prey to the recruiters who

0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:16.279
<v Speaker 2>target vulnerable teens. But the government waited and waited. They

0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:20.120
<v Speaker 2>watched too. I'm sure we know they had undercover agents

0:49:20.120 --> 0:49:24.799
<v Speaker 2>in the group, But they waited over a year. They

0:49:24.800 --> 0:49:28.080
<v Speaker 2>waited until more attacks took place. They waited until an

0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:31.840
<v Speaker 2>eighty seven year old man was stabbed outside of his mosque.

0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:34.799
<v Speaker 2>They waited while more and more young men were fed

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:40.080
<v Speaker 2>heaping servings of rotten propaganda. They waited until September of

0:49:40.120 --> 0:49:43.920
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four, a few weeks after that stabbing in Turkey.

0:49:45.560 --> 0:49:47.719
<v Speaker 2>In a piece published in Wire a few days after

0:49:47.760 --> 0:49:52.640
<v Speaker 2>the indictment, investigative journalist Ali Winston offers an intriguing explanation

0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:55.759
<v Speaker 2>for the timing. While most of the charges in the

0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:58.360
<v Speaker 2>indictment could have been brought at any time, things like

0:49:58.480 --> 0:50:02.839
<v Speaker 2>soliciting the murder of a federal AffA, disseminating information about explosives,

0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:07.240
<v Speaker 2>threatening communications, and so on, they've been doing that for years.

0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.520
<v Speaker 2>The final charge of this fifteen count indictment is a

0:50:11.600 --> 0:50:17.400
<v Speaker 2>violation of Chapter eighteen, Section two three three nine A

0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:23.080
<v Speaker 2>conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists. And this is

0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:25.279
<v Speaker 2>the most serious charge on the indictment. This is the

0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:29.200
<v Speaker 2>one that could put them away forever. And this charge

0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:32.280
<v Speaker 2>was only made possible by a decision earlier this year

0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:35.719
<v Speaker 2>by the Government of the United Kingdom. In April of

0:50:35.760 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four, the UK formally added the Terragram Collective

0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:44.200
<v Speaker 2>to its list of proscribed terrorist entities. A Home Office

0:50:44.200 --> 0:50:45.640
<v Speaker 2>announcement in April.

0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:49.640
<v Speaker 6>Reads the Telegram Collective has been prescribed as a terrorist

0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:53.760
<v Speaker 6>organization today after Parliament approved a draft order laid on Monday,

0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:57.279
<v Speaker 6>the twenty second of April. This order makes belonging to

0:50:57.320 --> 0:51:00.800
<v Speaker 6>the Terogram Collective or inviting support for the group criminal offense,

0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:03.640
<v Speaker 6>with a potential prison sentence of fourteen years, which can

0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:06.400
<v Speaker 6>be handed down alongside or in place of a fine.

0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:09.880
<v Speaker 6>In addition, Section fifty eight makes it a criminal offense

0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.239
<v Speaker 6>for a person to collect or possess information which is

0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:14.960
<v Speaker 6>likely to be useful to a person committing or repairing

0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:19.520
<v Speaker 6>for acts of terrorism, including where individual views or accesses

0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:23.800
<v Speaker 6>documents or records containing information of that kind. The Teogram

0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:26.200
<v Speaker 6>Collective has now been added to the list of prescribed

0:51:26.280 --> 0:51:32.520
<v Speaker 6>organizations in the UK, alongside eighty other organizations.

0:51:32.800 --> 0:51:38.160
<v Speaker 2>And with that announcement, Terogram is now a foreign terrorist organization.

0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:41.880
<v Speaker 2>And because people died and at least one of the incidents,

0:51:41.920 --> 0:51:43.839
<v Speaker 2>the government laid out in the indictment. As an act

0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:48.920
<v Speaker 2>the defendants insided they could go away for life. As

0:51:48.920 --> 0:51:51.839
<v Speaker 2>Ali Winston put it in that Wired article quote, In

0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:55.600
<v Speaker 2>other words, the US is treating Terogram in ways similar

0:51:55.640 --> 0:52:00.960
<v Speaker 2>to how it has treated Islamist terrorist organizations. Terrorism researcher

0:52:01.000 --> 0:52:04.239
<v Speaker 2>Seamus Hughes told Winston, quote, I would think of this

0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:07.960
<v Speaker 2>case more like an old school terrorism investigation, where you

0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:11.040
<v Speaker 2>have a leadership cell that pushed info to followers and

0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:16.239
<v Speaker 2>radicalized them into action. Cases involving this particular charge are

0:52:16.600 --> 0:52:21.120
<v Speaker 2>typically those involving groups like ISIS or al Qaida. I

0:52:21.360 --> 0:52:25.040
<v Speaker 2>don't think we've seen this used before against white nationalist

0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:30.160
<v Speaker 2>domestic terror organizations. Using this legal framework against a group

0:52:30.239 --> 0:52:33.160
<v Speaker 2>like the Terrogram collective may signal a shift in the

0:52:33.200 --> 0:52:37.640
<v Speaker 2>DOJ's strategy for targeting white nationalist terrorism in the United States.

0:52:38.640 --> 0:52:42.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a big swing, as Hughes said, quote, it shows

0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:44.640
<v Speaker 2>that either the FEDS are trying to make a point

0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:50.040
<v Speaker 2>or they were very concerned about these particular actors, and

0:52:50.080 --> 0:52:54.680
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's both right. It was long past time to

0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:59.560
<v Speaker 2>do something, anything, anything at all about the most significant

0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:03.240
<v Speaker 2>network of neo Nazi terrorist propaganda on the English speaking Internet.

0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:05.400
<v Speaker 3>People have already died.

0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:08.920
<v Speaker 2>There's every reason to believe the undercover agents they had

0:53:08.920 --> 0:53:12.719
<v Speaker 2>in the group knew that more people would die if

0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:17.720
<v Speaker 2>something didn't disrupt the organization. And maybe the Justice Department

0:53:17.760 --> 0:53:19.719
<v Speaker 2>is just feeling a little more willing to use the

0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:23.319
<v Speaker 2>tools they have to do something about right wing extremism

0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:27.600
<v Speaker 2>more generally, this is obviously a much more seismic shift

0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.080
<v Speaker 2>in policy. But we were just talking last week about

0:53:30.080 --> 0:53:33.120
<v Speaker 2>the false statements charges against a soldier who allegedly lied

0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:37.839
<v Speaker 2>about his extremist activities, and those charges were unusual and

0:53:37.880 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>perhaps indicative of a shift in policy and strategy. I

0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:45.319
<v Speaker 2>suppose it doesn't behoove me to make wilder speculations than

0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:47.719
<v Speaker 2>the experts are willing to make, So we'll stick with

0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:51.160
<v Speaker 2>what Seamus Hughes told Ally Winston. A case like this

0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:55.719
<v Speaker 2>had to get sign off at the highest levels. Somebody

0:53:55.880 --> 0:54:01.080
<v Speaker 2>in the DOJ wanted this network shut down. When the

0:54:01.120 --> 0:54:04.600
<v Speaker 2>pair were arrested earlier this month, authorities searched their homes.

0:54:05.800 --> 0:54:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Dallas Humber had three D printed guns, high capacity magazines,

0:54:09.200 --> 0:54:13.400
<v Speaker 2>a short barreled rifle, unregistered firearms, a lot of Nazi propaganda,

0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:18.279
<v Speaker 2>her own manifestos, and a notebook listing the white supremacist

0:54:18.320 --> 0:54:24.040
<v Speaker 2>attackers with whom she corresponds, including Dylan Roof. When Matthew

0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Allison was arrested, he was quote wearing a backpack containing

0:54:27.960 --> 0:54:32.600
<v Speaker 2>zip ties, duct tape, a gun, ammunition, a knife, lock

0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:38.480
<v Speaker 2>picking equipment, two phones, and a thumb drive. After his arrest,

0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:41.319
<v Speaker 2>Allison was advised of his rights, but waived them and

0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:44.319
<v Speaker 2>quickly confessed in a recorded interview to engaging in the

0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:48.200
<v Speaker 2>acts alleged in the indictment. The pair are currently held

0:54:48.200 --> 0:54:51.640
<v Speaker 2>without bond, with the government citing their own statements about

0:54:51.680 --> 0:54:54.160
<v Speaker 2>their willingness to die in a shootout rather than be arrested,

0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:58.439
<v Speaker 2>about Allison's go bag, which indicates a desire to flee

0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:01.560
<v Speaker 2>the country, the severe of the charges which could send

0:55:01.560 --> 0:55:04.080
<v Speaker 2>them to prison for the rest of their lives, and

0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:07.959
<v Speaker 2>their own prior statements expressing a willingness to murder or

0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:11.760
<v Speaker 2>to have murdered people they suspect. Our cooperating witnesses against

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:17.440
<v Speaker 2>other Terogram members like Brendan Russell. These cooperating witnesses have

0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:19.799
<v Speaker 2>been given permission by the government to testify in a

0:55:19.840 --> 0:55:23.600
<v Speaker 2>closed court room without being named. In Brandon Russell's case

0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:27.719
<v Speaker 2>for Humber and Allison. There is not currently a date

0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:31.120
<v Speaker 2>set for their next appearance in court, and with Humber

0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:34.640
<v Speaker 2>and Allison in custody, the current version of the Tterogram.

0:55:34.280 --> 0:55:36.200
<v Speaker 3>Collective is dead.

0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:40.840
<v Speaker 2>But what does that mean? This is only one head

0:55:41.160 --> 0:55:44.960
<v Speaker 2>of a hydra. Just as new leaders emerged after Slovak

0:55:45.000 --> 0:55:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Borough was arrested in twenty twenty two, just as Brandon

0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Russell continued to communicate with Humber after his arrest in

0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:53.640
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, a new poster will rise to take

0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:57.400
<v Speaker 2>their place. Hopefully this case signals a shift and the

0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:00.680
<v Speaker 2>government's approach to throwing of roadblocks in the paths of

0:56:00.800 --> 0:56:05.560
<v Speaker 2>aspiring Nazi terrorists. Because a dildo saleswoman from California and

0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.680
<v Speaker 2>a failed DJ from Idaho may spend the rest of

0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:12.160
<v Speaker 2>their lives behind bars, but it's only a matter of

0:56:12.200 --> 0:56:16.000
<v Speaker 2>time where for a new voice starts whispering white terror

0:56:16.560 --> 0:56:19.920
<v Speaker 2>into the ears and impressionable teenage boys who are desperate

0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to die in a way that will impress four Chan posters.

0:56:27.960 --> 0:56:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Weird Little Guys is the production of cool Zone Media.

0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:31.880
<v Speaker 5>For more from cool Zone.

0:56:31.719 --> 0:56:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us

0:56:35.560 --> 0:56:36.960
<v Speaker 1>out on the iHeartRadio app.

0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:39.160
<v Speaker 3>Or Wherever You get Here podcast