Speaker 1: Welcome back all the smoke twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: We get to start with a banger man New Year.
Speaker 3: Shout out Netflix Devils for this partnership and obviously giving
Speaker 3: us the opportunity to sit down with our next guest,
Speaker 3: someone I'm a huge fan of, been a fan for
Speaker 3: a long time yep, and has something called How's a
Speaker 3: company called Artist Equity which we're going to get into,
Speaker 3: which I think is absolutely amazing. But without further ado,
Speaker 3: welcome to the show. Ben a Flack.
Speaker 2: Legend, legend app You've been good to be here. Thank
Speaker 2: you very much to be here.
Speaker 3: Man a new movie release coming soon the Rip January sixteenth,
Speaker 3: got a chance to watch it last night. This is
Speaker 3: the first partnership between Netflix and Artists Equity of production company.
Speaker 3: You and Matt Launchton twenty twenty two. Your company is
Speaker 3: pretty revolutionary when it comes to the streaming age, but
Speaker 3: also the structure in which people who work for your rewarded.
Speaker 3: Can you break that down?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure, this is the first time.
Speaker 4: Look like, you know, we had these strikes a couple
Speaker 4: of years ago and this business we were talking just
Speaker 4: before we started, you know, like things are changing a lot, right,
Speaker 4: and so there's a lot of uncertainty and a lot
Speaker 4: of fear. And one of the things is like, hey,
Speaker 4: you know, costs got to come down and blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: and and yet you know, you have this whole streaming
Speaker 4: universe that's obviously really expanding, has a lot of value.
Speaker 4: In the old days, you understood what the value was
Speaker 4: of stuff you did because you know, you see the
Speaker 4: box office and and that kind of thing, and there
Speaker 4: was a value associated with it. And so during the strikes,
Speaker 4: one of the things that we were trying to work
Speaker 4: with the guilds and trying to volunteer was like to
Speaker 4: create a like a streaming residual structure because in the
Speaker 4: old days, like if you're on a TV show on
Speaker 4: network or in a movie, you know, you knew how
Speaker 4: successful it was as an actor, you get paid a
Speaker 4: residual right according to how how successful it was. And
Speaker 4: when this model came along, it really changed things. And
Speaker 4: so what we're trying to do with this is implement
Speaker 4: the first performance based compensation structure where you know, we've
Speaker 4: worked with Netflix and very grateful and appreciate it. They've
Speaker 4: been really open engaging in this, and I think they
Speaker 4: wanted to work so that they can kind of like
Speaker 4: implement this sense of fairness where like, so if you're
Speaker 4: an actor in this, this movie or where you worked on,
Speaker 4: I've got twelve hundred people in the crew, all of
Speaker 4: them are part of this bonus structure, and we kind
Speaker 4: of set up these kind of these levels where like
Speaker 4: if in the ninety days, the same number of people
Speaker 4: watch it as watched you know, and they give us
Speaker 4: movies that performed at a certain level in the past,
Speaker 4: X movie, Y movie Z, Like their their biggest movie
Speaker 4: I think is you know, K.
Speaker 2: Pop Demon Hunters. So if it does that, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a lottery hit. But there's additional compensation along the way.
Speaker 4: And the way that the reason why we wanted to
Speaker 4: do this is both because we're aware of like the
Speaker 4: business is shifting. We want to protect and solidify this.
Speaker 4: This is like a really strong and important I think
Speaker 4: business for this community. And also, you know, I really
Speaker 4: believe that you know, when you're working on a movie,
Speaker 4: like I said, you got twelve hundred people on the crew,
Speaker 4: You've got all your cast, you've got you know, your
Speaker 4: producers and writers and everybody, and if you align them
Speaker 4: where everybody's goal is to do something that people like
Speaker 4: instead of you know, and also you know how much
Speaker 4: over time am I going to get and you know
Speaker 4: what's you know looking at the clock. My belief is
Speaker 4: that you'll motivate people around creating the best product. Like
Speaker 4: that's the sort of team analogy.
Speaker 1: And also it makes everyone feel like they really have
Speaker 1: skin in the game.
Speaker 4: Right Yeah, And it recognizes the fact that I really
Speaker 4: believe and this is something that Match hears too. And
Speaker 4: with Air we try to do the same thing that like, look,
Speaker 4: everybody working on this. It really is a community effort.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It sounds sort of like bullshit or like, you know,
Speaker 4: people say shit like that, I think sometimes, but it's
Speaker 4: I really believe this. Like if people understand, oh, hey,
Speaker 4: you know, we need to work hard to get this
Speaker 4: extra shot or go a little bit further out there
Speaker 4: and get this because we want to make it good.
Speaker 4: Because at the end of the day, you're gonna be
Speaker 4: proud if people see you and you're the whether you're
Speaker 4: a driver or work construction, or you're electrician or camera
Speaker 4: department or an actor, go like that, well.
Speaker 2: That moved me or that touched me. That's meaningful.
Speaker 4: And I'm trying to focus people around that goal. It
Speaker 4: also makes it easier when you're trying to do it.
Speaker 4: You're not feeling like you have people working at odds
Speaker 4: against each other, where some people like, we really don't
Speaker 4: give a shit, you know, if you're gonna get your
Speaker 4: extra shot or not because I got my kids and
Speaker 4: I gotta go a dentist.
Speaker 3: The full well you mentioned air and that structure paid
Speaker 3: dividends for that crew, right, paid its been he did
Speaker 3: really really well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, bonus people very well. And uh, you know, we
Speaker 4: we were able to be successful in doing that, and
Speaker 4: this is the first time that we've but that was
Speaker 4: one that was like after the fact, we were like, Okay,
Speaker 4: if we come in under, if we can accomplish these
Speaker 4: goals X, Y and Z will will bonus people, which
Speaker 4: we did. What I'm trying to do is create a mechanism,
Speaker 4: like a model, so that the next one come along.
Speaker 2: Go okay, we'll do this too.
Speaker 4: Where it's already pre legislating, just had to go through
Speaker 4: everybody's like a function of your salary, how much extra
Speaker 4: you're going to get at level one, two, three, four,
Speaker 4: et cetera. And so that it can be a repeatable
Speaker 4: thing that other people can do and that you kind
Speaker 4: of you know, and also historically there's been like the
Speaker 4: actors that get compensated and the crew has been kind
Speaker 4: of treated differently, like oh, it doesn't matter after the fact.
Speaker 4: You guys just get what you get and women. But
Speaker 4: that's I'm trying to, you know, kind of unite that
Speaker 4: and you know.
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. People gotta people gotta watch. It's
Speaker 2: gotta be successful.
Speaker 5: Regardless what you do.
Speaker 6: When you treat people, when you appreciate people, they work
Speaker 6: hard for you.
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. I think people love the
Speaker 5: fact that you're doing that.
Speaker 4: That is absolutely that's the most important lesson. I realize
Speaker 4: that like you show people that you value what they're
Speaker 4: doing and that what they're bringing to the process.
Speaker 2: Is meaningful to you.
Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that you know everything's great, or sometimes
Speaker 4: it means going like this isn't good enough, right, we
Speaker 4: got to do better.
Speaker 2: But when it is right and when.
Speaker 4: It does make a difference, and you let people know,
Speaker 4: like people will die for you, like people will go
Speaker 4: the whole way for you, and that it's like selfishly
Speaker 4: for me as director as an actor, I'm like this
Speaker 4: this way of doing things.
Speaker 3: Works as someone who broke in during a box office
Speaker 3: era movie theater era transitioning into mainly streaming. Now, what
Speaker 3: are your thoughts on just the two and the difference.
Speaker 4: Obviously, you know, I feel like sometimes I feel like
Speaker 4: it makes me feel old, you know, because there's that
Speaker 4: tendency to be like, you know, to want to freeze
Speaker 4: the culture right where it was when you know, when
Speaker 4: you were like, you know, had that moment of like, oh,
Speaker 4: how come everybody and I, you know, is all this
Speaker 4: streaming thing and they're not going to the movies. Like yeah,
Speaker 4: I get it because when I was a kid, you know,
Speaker 4: you had three networks and then like oh here comes
Speaker 4: like uhf.
Speaker 2: And you had a couple and then you went to
Speaker 2: the movies. There wasn't a shit else to do.
Speaker 4: There wasn't YouTube, there wasn't TikTok, there wasn't even cable
Speaker 4: and then satellite TV. So the more options there are,
Speaker 4: you know, everybody's competing for the same dollars effectively, which
Speaker 4: is people's attention, balls, eyeballs, and and so if you
Speaker 4: do you know, if you just look at the math
Speaker 4: on that, there's only so many people and when you
Speaker 4: break it up like this.
Speaker 2: You know, there's just more competition.
Speaker 4: I mean, YouTube by itself, like people don't realize just
Speaker 4: you know, took a huge cut out of the entertainment
Speaker 4: business because that's where the majority of people now are
Speaker 4: watching and getting entertainment from. So you know, I feel like, look,
Speaker 4: as long as people it's also kind of like you
Speaker 4: got to take accountability, right, Like I like to go
Speaker 4: to the movies, I like to go to the movie theaters.
Speaker 4: I myself don't go as often as I did when
Speaker 4: I was eighteen years old, So be hypocritical of me
Speaker 4: to sit here and be like, well, why isn't it
Speaker 4: the way it was when I was a kid. Well,
Speaker 4: you know, because maybe it's because you know, I'm fifty
Speaker 4: and I want to.
Speaker 2: Like pause and like the bits and to resume the
Speaker 2: next day.
Speaker 4: So I can't be hypocritical. But there's a lot of
Speaker 4: people that like going to the movies in theaters.
Speaker 2: I do too.
Speaker 4: I think that will continue. I also, it's not like
Speaker 4: when I was young. You know, my dad had like
Speaker 4: eleven inch black and white TV, you know what I mean,
Speaker 4: And that kind of sucked. Now you've a couple hundred hours,
Speaker 4: you get a sixty inch.
Speaker 2: And you know, just look better.
Speaker 1: Shout out Netflix. We did exactly what you said.
Speaker 3: We started the movie, the kids started fucking acting up,
Speaker 3: so when we had to get them down in bed
Speaker 3: and put them in bed and then got to finish
Speaker 3: the movie.
Speaker 1: You can't do it at the theaters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's unless you your stuff be seen.
Speaker 3: You know, why aren't you on social media? I mean
Speaker 3: I see your energy, your passion. I think it would
Speaker 3: be something you would be really good in, but you
Speaker 3: choose not to.
Speaker 4: You know, Like I give you a lot of answers.
Speaker 4: I just know I get in trouble, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean?
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I mean I got in enough trouble in
Speaker 4: my life to know, and I do. I like to
Speaker 4: talk and I.
Speaker 2: Have opinions and then.
Speaker 4: I think, like, you know, I learned early on as
Speaker 4: I've been around and been through a couple of cycles
Speaker 4: of up and down. That's also like sometimes people don't
Speaker 4: want to hear all that much from you know, from actors,
Speaker 4: and that there is a level that's kind of appropriate,
Speaker 4: But honestly that's kind of bullshit too. The truth is
Speaker 4: like I don't want to find out, you know, I
Speaker 4: don't want to deal with the backlash of something all
Speaker 4: the time. And what I see from people that do it,
Speaker 4: even people that do it well, it's it's a huge
Speaker 4: amount of work lies and all of a sudden, I
Speaker 4: just see people sweating. I gotta post something, I gotta
Speaker 4: get something up there, and you're putting this whole other
Speaker 4: job right on top.
Speaker 5: Of the good job. Bro. It took.
Speaker 6: It takes a couple of years off your life. You
Speaker 6: look at your your I can career in two different arcs.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna read the quote that you said a few
Speaker 6: years back. One of the best things that happened to
Speaker 6: me was to become really successful young and to feel
Speaker 6: like a lot of people liked me and I was
Speaker 6: funny and cool and everybody laughed that they're not even
Speaker 6: so funny jokes. And then to become unpopular and uncool.
Speaker 6: To see what happened to relationships that I really believe
Speaker 6: were real relationships. Who's calling you? Who isn't? And just
Speaker 6: to see the world change in that way. Can you
Speaker 6: expand on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely I think the real Like
Speaker 4: I guess what I've come to believe is that real
Speaker 4: wisdom comes from humility, you know. And I've come to
Speaker 4: really the people that I respect and look up to,
Speaker 4: they know that what they're good at, you know, and
Speaker 4: they don't hold themselves low. But there's also a humility
Speaker 4: involved too, Like if you're sure you're right about everything
Speaker 4: and smarter than everybody, you know, first of all.
Speaker 2: You're gonna be wrong sometimes, so you are wrong.
Speaker 4: And and what happened with me was it was a
Speaker 4: really great lesson I did. I came in and I
Speaker 4: was young, and I got successful. You had that like
Speaker 4: classic thing that you see, and then I had three
Speaker 4: four movies that just wiped out. And at the same time,
Speaker 4: there was this whole explosion in the tabloid world and
Speaker 4: I was all over that, and it felt to people
Speaker 4: like I was like trying to put myself out there
Speaker 4: in ways, you know, which retrospect I kind of get
Speaker 4: like you resent it.
Speaker 2: After certain points we were like, I'm stop hearing about
Speaker 2: this one for fuck you.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't want to hear about your bullshit.
Speaker 4: I don't want to see you in your nice car.
Speaker 2: Don't tell me how problem fuck you know.
Speaker 4: I work at Target and it's like is hard, you know,
Speaker 4: and there's no getting around that, and there's this appetite
Speaker 4: to like, tell us more seemore, and you can it's
Speaker 4: like that social media and you can want to feed
Speaker 4: that ye with and you don't realize at.
Speaker 2: A certain point it's too much.
Speaker 4: And what happened to me was also frankly, the movie
Speaker 4: just didn't work because I did movies for money a
Speaker 4: few times, you know, and I had learned that lesson too,
Speaker 4: and it was like, it was a really great instruction
Speaker 4: for me, because Yeah, all the people that I thought, like,
Speaker 4: all these people are my friends or all these people
Speaker 4: I'm so funny because every time I say some dumb shit,
Speaker 4: like people are laughing, and I started saying the same
Speaker 4: jokes and nobody were laughing and people weren't calling me back,
Speaker 4: and I was like, Wow, none of these people liked.
Speaker 2: Me, None of these people were my friend.
Speaker 4: None of these people give if I can't do something
Speaker 4: for people, they're ducking me. And you know, it's only
Speaker 4: I was thirty two or something like that. I was like,
Speaker 4: that's it for me, and I went back and had
Speaker 4: to kind of start over, and it was humbling in
Speaker 4: a really healthy way in the sense that I was like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna try to be a director, and I'm gonna
Speaker 4: try to because that's I think, you know, gonna rely
Speaker 4: that's about more like about what kind of movie do
Speaker 4: I make, not whether or not I happened to be
Speaker 4: cool me, you know, because that I'm obviously not gonna
Speaker 4: be cool all time to everybody.
Speaker 2: And once I did that, it took a few years
Speaker 2: to get back. And during that time, I stopped needing
Speaker 2: that kind of attention or acrobation.
Speaker 4: And I also learned that I Do'm not mad at anybody,
Speaker 4: like just you're not all my friends.
Speaker 2: You know, you'd many friends. You don't need that many friends.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 4: The's people who like it's fine. They're there because they think, oh,
Speaker 4: maybe this dude can help me in And by the way,
Speaker 4: so am I. I'm not really friends with you. I'm
Speaker 4: just mad that all of a sudden you won't call
Speaker 4: me back.
Speaker 1: So you know, less is more everybody, But you just
Speaker 1: really asked the question.
Speaker 6: It's safe to say that directing really like rejuvenated your
Speaker 6: second quarest.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think I would.
Speaker 4: In fact, the first movie that I directed, part of
Speaker 4: my pitch was like, don't worry, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not gonna be in it.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like that was where my.
Speaker 4: Acting career was like maybe you can direct, but nobody
Speaker 4: wants to see you in a.
Speaker 2: Fucking and I had to like eat that shit.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, and go oh wow, like
Speaker 4: in realizing can happen that fast and once you're but
Speaker 4: also like you kind of get over yourself, you get
Speaker 4: over your ego, you.
Speaker 2: Get over your what's my price?
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's for free, and I'm whatever less scale
Speaker 4: salary is, I'll give it back. And I just want
Speaker 4: a chance to work. I want to do this, and
Speaker 4: I appreciated that, like I actually like doing this. It's
Speaker 4: a privilege. You're lucky to be able to do this job.
Speaker 4: And I need to get out there and prove it.
Speaker 4: I need to do something really good, you know, not okay,
Speaker 4: not good enough, not like and I need to try
Speaker 4: to do something great. And I don't know that I'm
Speaker 4: any more talented than anybody else as a director, but
Speaker 4: I just thought, well, one thing I control is I
Speaker 4: will Nobody's gonna work me, and I will work as
Speaker 4: hard as I need to.
Speaker 2: And that's the first movie I did. You know.
Speaker 4: It got didn't do very well at the box office,
Speaker 4: but like the reviews were like, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 4: everybody gets lucky sometimes, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 4: I got kind of grudging reviews, and I was able
Speaker 4: to put myself in the second movie that I directed, The.
Speaker 2: Town, And really, if that hadn't worked like I would,
Speaker 2: that would have been the end of my acting career
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 6: It was It's old saying that since I ain't working
Speaker 6: with them, I'll work. I kind of live on that one.
Speaker 6: Since you are great at both, is the one you
Speaker 6: like more? Acting or directing?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 4: I have to say I like directing more because it
Speaker 4: gives you.
Speaker 2: More of a sense of you know.
Speaker 4: One of the frustrating things for me as an actor
Speaker 4: some of these lessons early on was like you realize
Speaker 4: I didn't have control over really what was gonna happen,
Speaker 4: but it was gonna be my face out there. I
Speaker 4: have no problem if it's like you want to do
Speaker 4: it and it's you take the credit or take the
Speaker 4: hit for it, but when your face on the poster,
Speaker 4: but you got to do it way, you know, And
Speaker 4: maybe that's like playing team sports. You know, you got
Speaker 4: this coach who wants to run a system, and then
Speaker 4: if you don't get the points your contract is going
Speaker 4: to take it. Yeah, it was similar in that way,
Speaker 4: but I like the broader sense of authorship from directing,
Speaker 4: and I Yeah, then I started to like acting a
Speaker 4: lot more because I wasn't doing it.
Speaker 2: I was doing it when something came along that I felt.
Speaker 4: Like doing, and I wasn't worrying about playing likable characters
Speaker 4: or trying to build some strategy about like I want
Speaker 4: to be in action movies and all this, just like
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna take parts that I like and that
Speaker 4: move me. And then it got interesting for me again
Speaker 4: in a way that it hadn't been. So you know,
Speaker 4: now it's like I really do. I do love doing it,
Speaker 4: and I had a lot of fun, like some on
Speaker 4: the rep.
Speaker 2: You know, it's fun.
Speaker 4: To be mad and play these like antagonistic you know,
Speaker 4: like old friends.
Speaker 2: But then when you're like, oh are you betraying Megaunuck?
Speaker 2: Can I trust you?
Speaker 4: Like that's an intense thing when you have something you
Speaker 4: know in a long time and you feel like this
Speaker 4: person fucked me over, like and that was that was
Speaker 4: powerful and fun thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Interesting, Speaking of Matt duos, great duos don't normally last
Speaker 3: this long. Thirty plus years partnerships. You look at Tom
Speaker 3: Brady and Belichick, Shaq and Kobe, Jordan Pippin, Mad and
Speaker 3: Stack were still moving though a movie jay Z and
Speaker 3: Dame Dash what is you and Matt's secret? And then
Speaker 3: we talked a little bit off camera about this, but
Speaker 3: what is your guy? The secret?
Speaker 2: Just with being able to.
Speaker 3: That's very high praise, very like.
Speaker 2: Stick sneaking on that list. I'll just take it, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, But.
Speaker 4: The truth is that, like a couple of things, I
Speaker 4: think when we started out, and I think we just
Speaker 4: got lucky, like we you know, we were always going
Speaker 4: up for the same parts, right like, and so it
Speaker 4: could have been that thing of like in competitive and
Speaker 4: having a lot of issues that we always were honest
Speaker 4: about it, like, look, I want to get the part.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're both going up for it. I won't to
Speaker 2: get it, but if I don't, I.
Speaker 4: Hope you do, you know exactly, And we were straight
Speaker 4: about that and kind of and really did kind of
Speaker 4: have each other's back and feel like at least I
Speaker 4: got somebody.
Speaker 2: Who's in this with me.
Speaker 4: Because it's an uphill climb and you're looking at all
Speaker 4: these people out in front of you, and the idea
Speaker 4: anyone ever giving you a break is so ridiculous and remote.
Speaker 4: And then when we actually got successful kind of happened
Speaker 4: to us more or less the same time. And having
Speaker 4: somebody around that not only could like tell you the
Speaker 4: truth and.
Speaker 2: Be like what the fuck? You know, yeah, I'm like
Speaker 2: an idiot, why are you doing this?
Speaker 4: Is powerful and maybe even more powerful having somebody who
Speaker 4: you can kind of turn.
Speaker 2: To and close the door and just go like, are
Speaker 2: you scared?
Speaker 4: Because this is scary, this is crazy, you know, and
Speaker 4: be honest with you know, like I think that a
Speaker 4: lot of people just don't get that because this is
Speaker 4: a rare thing to like have somebody that you grow
Speaker 4: up with I go through that same thing together.
Speaker 2: So I think that was helpful.
Speaker 4: And then, you know, for a while, we like we
Speaker 4: started we tried to like, let's define our identity separately,
Speaker 4: and we don't want to be working together because we're
Speaker 4: going to get typecast. And then a certain point, I
Speaker 4: don't know, five or eight years so whatever years ago,
Speaker 4: we're like fuck that.
Speaker 2: Like, listen, here we are.
Speaker 4: We're still in the ring, you know, and as long
Speaker 4: as we're able to do this, let's let's actually spend
Speaker 4: our time working together and what people we like, instead
Speaker 4: of trying to sweat the whole like optics and the
Speaker 4: strategy and this whole thing of like what are people
Speaker 4: going to think of me? And all that was like
Speaker 4: fuck it, And that's been probably the most rewarding aspect, Michael.
Speaker 5: I think.
Speaker 3: I mean, from the outside looking in, it looks like
Speaker 3: with five to eight years, looks like you guys are
Speaker 3: doing it your way now instead of trying to fit
Speaker 3: into a mold and what has been told supposed to be.
Speaker 2: And we you know you're gonna hit and missed.
Speaker 4: But I feel like if you're comfortable, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, and you feel and you're like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: I take that shot again.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, You're in the right spot.
Speaker 4: You know, you can't sort of hold yourself I think,
Speaker 4: to that perfection thing and you make yourself crazy. But
Speaker 4: the fact is, like I really I really enjoy my
Speaker 4: life mostly because of like who I get to spend
Speaker 4: it with.
Speaker 2: Most of the time.
Speaker 5: You know, you missed one hundred of the shots you
Speaker 5: don't take.
Speaker 6: Speaking of shots, the great greatest shot maker of all time,
Speaker 6: Michael Jordan, you got a relationship with the Goat.
Speaker 5: Can you talk about that how that came about?
Speaker 7: Man, I mean talking about one of the great and
Speaker 7: you're a Boston guy too, I am a boss. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 7: But I mean even Larry Bird was like that dead
Speaker 7: with Michael Jordan out there, that was God went away
Speaker 7: real quick.
Speaker 2: Even in Boston. Like Larry Bird's the greatest, maybe second,
Speaker 2: but Jordan's.
Speaker 4: You know, I knew him a little bit, just in
Speaker 4: the sense of you know, when you're you know, you
Speaker 4: run across somebody at events and of course you know
Speaker 4: it's like it's like me God, you know, trying to
Speaker 4: like suck up to the guy and everything, and then
Speaker 4: you know, just just in so much admiration of him.
Speaker 4: And when we got hold of this story, you know,
Speaker 4: knew him well enough basically just calm up and go, hey,
Speaker 4: look like I got a hold of this script. I
Speaker 4: like to make the movie, but I have too much
Speaker 4: respect for you and what you mean, Like, I'm not
Speaker 4: gonna do anything that you're not down with. So if
Speaker 4: you want to give me a couple of hours, sit
Speaker 4: down and tell me like what's real, what's not, and
Speaker 4: what you care about, you know, And he was like,
Speaker 4: all right, cool, come out to my golf course, so
Speaker 4: blew out there sick, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Damn, it's good to be Michael Jordan. It turns out,
Speaker 2: Oh it's great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, nobody's there of him and his boys. It's just
Speaker 4: like that thing, you know. And I went waited for my.
Speaker 2: Man to finish, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: They're like, Michael, be like soon, and I was like,
Speaker 4: I'm not going. And when he got done, he was like,
Speaker 4: so what is this you know? And I said, look,
Speaker 4: it's the story of your Nike deal basically, and you
Speaker 4: know what happened around then, and here's I had sent
Speaker 4: him a script and I kind of talked him through
Speaker 4: it a little bit.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting, of all the people I talked to for.
Speaker 4: That movie talking about humility, like, he was the only
Speaker 4: one who was like, look, I can talk about what
Speaker 4: I was I can't do Mike's voice is so deep,
Speaker 4: I can't do it. But it was like it's gives
Speaker 4: a little extra intimidation, you like, hey, look what's up.
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: He was like, I can only tell you what I
Speaker 4: was there for and what I know to be true.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to talk about what happened when I
Speaker 4: wasn't in the room, which everybody else was like, this
Speaker 4: is what.
Speaker 2: Happened, this is what happened.
Speaker 4: He was only one that was like, I know what
Speaker 4: I know, and I don't know what I wasn't there for.
Speaker 4: Here's what matters to me. And he talked about his folks,
Speaker 4: and he talked about you know, Chris Tucker's character obviously,
Speaker 4: and he talked about like what was critical in terms
Speaker 4: of like, and I don't want to give away anything
Speaker 4: because it was the private conversation, right, but I was like, okay, cool,
Speaker 4: are you like so these this is the ship that
Speaker 4: I'm not you know, I'm gonna take that as gospel
Speaker 4: and then go do it. I was like, but Mike,
Speaker 4: I don't want to. I'm not gonna put you in
Speaker 4: the movie because you're such a like an icon. As
Speaker 4: soon as I show somebody and try to be like
Speaker 4: that's Michael Jordan, You're just gonna be like, no it
Speaker 4: isn't you know. It just can't show a sioutte You're like, no,
Speaker 4: it's not him. And so he was like, I don't
Speaker 4: know if you liked that or not, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean. But he was like, all right, okay, cool, Yeah, no,
Speaker 4: Biolta Davis gotta play my mom.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, cool, I guess we better
Speaker 2: write her a good part.
Speaker 1: What was the process of trying to get her, because
Speaker 1: I'm sure it wasn't very easy.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: I mean, if iol is somebody that I really look up,
Speaker 4: I think she's like the very best, you know, and
Speaker 4: that that absolute top of the best.
Speaker 2: Actors in the world. And she knew I.
Speaker 4: Felt that way because I had a little part with
Speaker 4: her in Suicide Squad and I was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 4: I think you're a genius and I'd love to do.
Speaker 2: Something with you. And she was kind of like, yeah, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and I'll come back to and and so you know,
Speaker 4: I was just like I knew that I could use
Speaker 4: the fact that Michael wanted her.
Speaker 2: It was going to be in a hell of a
Speaker 2: lot more than that I wanted her.
Speaker 4: And I was like, hey, ll look, we wrote this,
Speaker 4: you know, for you and everything, and uh, and Mike
Speaker 4: did say that the only way we can do it
Speaker 4: is if you play.
Speaker 2: And so she was. She came and did and did it.
Speaker 2: She was amazing.
Speaker 4: And her husband, Julius Uh was great to He.
Speaker 2: Played Mike's dad. They play husband and wife.
Speaker 4: And he was like because he because I asked Michael, like,
Speaker 4: what's the like, I'm trying to find an actor play
Speaker 4: your father, like, and I know, you know, his father
Speaker 4: passed away and a lot has been said about how
Speaker 4: close they weren't all that stuff, and I was like,
Speaker 4: how do.
Speaker 2: I who do I look for?
Speaker 4: And he was like, my dad had the best personality
Speaker 4: of anybody in the world. And like when he told
Speaker 4: me that, I remember being like, he moved me, you know,
Speaker 4: and so and then when she was I was like,
Speaker 4: this is just a dude who's so proud of his son.
Speaker 4: And that's what I loved about, like what he did
Speaker 4: with that because she was a little more cynical, she
Speaker 4: kind of knew and saw maybe kind of through.
Speaker 2: Some of the bullshit, and I love the idea.
Speaker 4: But he was just so fucking proud of his son
Speaker 4: and just love everybody dracking his son.
Speaker 2: And making videos and shit and just happy. And it
Speaker 2: was beautiful and cutting that against.
Speaker 4: Like the the clips of like, you know, his father's
Speaker 4: you know, being killed.
Speaker 2: Ultimately, I made it really really powerful, like.
Speaker 4: You watched this guy who's you're not gonna live through
Speaker 4: the story to see his Son become this you know
Speaker 4: who he became. And but but those two were really
Speaker 4: the anchor in the heart of the movie, and that
Speaker 4: that was definitely what Mike he He was not like
Speaker 4: sweating the corporate details of the fucking and like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, he didn't. He was like look and he said
Speaker 2: what he said. But he what mattered to him was
Speaker 2: like the.
Speaker 4: Certain key people you know, and and that we got
Speaker 4: you know, Marlon and Chris to play them was cool.
Speaker 2: And Chris, of course like knows.
Speaker 4: Everybody, you know what I mean, Chris guys who was like,
Speaker 4: you can be you know, you can't bring up a name.
Speaker 2: He's cool. Jesus.
Speaker 3: Now he's friends with the two major mics excuse me,
Speaker 3: Jordan and Magic and Michael Michael Jackson Jackson, Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, I'm at Ali, you know, like
Speaker 2: Mama Ali, Like who the fuck? Don't you know he's amazing.
Speaker 2: He's because you just like him and cool and oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm cool.
Speaker 4: Mandela, I was like, what, it's the craziest thing in
Speaker 4: the world.
Speaker 2: But he's Christal, brilliant movie and I love him.
Speaker 5: How was it playing Phil?
Speaker 2: You know, it was a little bit like did you
Speaker 2: talk to him. I didn't want to talk to him first.
Speaker 4: I didn't want to get him to do anything with
Speaker 4: Nike because you know, I was aware that like people
Speaker 4: are gonna be like, oh, this is like a Nike
Speaker 4: propagame or whatever, and.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to. We didn't get any shoes or
Speaker 2: gear from them.
Speaker 4: We didn't get shipped from you know, or we got
Speaker 4: like the some of the stuff off eBay that was
Speaker 4: like the old waffle the shoe and stuff.
Speaker 2: And so they hadn't seen the movie at all and
Speaker 2: really know about it and kind of.
Speaker 4: Heard about it after we were done, and then they
Speaker 4: asked to screen it.
Speaker 2: And that's when I was like, oh shit.
Speaker 4: I was having a lot of fun, you know, playing
Speaker 4: Phil and kind of fucking with him, and so we
Speaker 4: went up and they were like, yeah, come up and show.
Speaker 2: Fill the movie.
Speaker 4: It's like okay, And all of a sudden, I was like,
Speaker 4: oh man, did I go too far with fucking round?
Speaker 2: Like they can sue us and shit.
Speaker 4: And they asked us to come up there, and we
Speaker 4: showed the movie in Portland, but not at Nike. I
Speaker 4: think they like rented up this whole movie theater down
Speaker 4: the street and we showed it, and Phil showed up
Speaker 4: and his kids, his wife and then like the general
Speaker 4: counsel for Nike, and so I introduced it and I
Speaker 4: remember being like, look, this is about the spirit of
Speaker 4: the company.
Speaker 2: And Phil, remember.
Speaker 4: Everybody likes to fuck with the boss, so you gotta
Speaker 4: have a sense of humor about that. And to his credit,
Speaker 4: he really did, you know. He was like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: you could take exception with.
Speaker 2: This moment and that moment. Everybody has their thing. But
Speaker 2: it was actually really moving.
Speaker 4: When the movie was over, I walked in there and
Speaker 4: I saw like I was like, I shouldn't have done
Speaker 4: that thing where I stole the candy.
Speaker 1: At the end the movie.
Speaker 2: I was like, what am I fuck? An idiot? I
Speaker 2: don't even think about this. I walked out there and
Speaker 2: everyone was.
Speaker 4: Quiet and and nobody would say anything until Phil said something,
Speaker 4: and so it was kind of waiting. I said, so,
Speaker 4: all right, you know, what'd you think? And Phil was like, well,
Speaker 4: I have some notes. I was like, gosh shit, all right,
Speaker 4: all right, well it's locked, but you know we can
Speaker 4: if you have some caveats, I can talk about them
Speaker 4: in the press or whatever.
Speaker 2: And and he said, first thing he said to me.
Speaker 4: He was like, we were friends, and I thought for
Speaker 4: a minute it looked like the d was about to cry.
Speaker 2: He's like he because the truth is like that group
Speaker 2: kind of scattered after that, and.
Speaker 4: Because of the success of the Jordan thing, Son Hen
Speaker 4: went to Adidas and and and Bateman's character also left,
Speaker 4: and you know, success brings success, but also sometimes people
Speaker 4: arguing about whose credit and he gets credit everything, And
Speaker 4: we didn't include that any of this stuff at the
Speaker 4: end of the movie, but I got the sense, and
Speaker 4: he didn't say that that there was like, yeah, there
Speaker 4: have been acrimony, there had been competition, and when he
Speaker 4: saw it because what we did go to great lengths
Speaker 4: to copy exactly with like the office and the look
Speaker 4: and all that stuff, and he was like, you know, Phels,
Speaker 4: he's older now, and he was like and he seemed
Speaker 4: like he was almost about to cry.
Speaker 2: He was like, we were friends.
Speaker 4: We were just friends trying to do something like he
Speaker 4: got lost in the nostalgia of like ye, he took
Speaker 4: him there, took him there, and uh, you know, and
Speaker 4: then all everybody else was like, oh, yeah, great movie.
Speaker 2: So he had to break the ice. Yeah he did.
Speaker 6: Interesting, if you were doing a bio pick up Michael
Speaker 6: Jordan's you think anybody clo would you think we play?
Speaker 5: Is there anybody that you can come to mind?
Speaker 4: It's so difficult, man, because you know, part of it is,
Speaker 4: I mean there's great actors like look, you know, like
Speaker 4: I mean it's funny, but like I think Michael B.
Speaker 4: Jordan's one of the one of the great actors. I
Speaker 4: love him. I think he's just like this like of
Speaker 4: this new generation. Like I just think he's spectacular. I
Speaker 4: think he's amazing in centners. A guy is just unbelievable.
Speaker 4: You know, he's been a friend of mine for a while,
Speaker 4: and so you know, he's a he's a first name
Speaker 4: that comes to mind just because he's actually too yoked, right,
Speaker 4: he has that like magnetism and charisma.
Speaker 2: You know. And I didn't you know, I didn't know.
Speaker 4: I wasn't around Jordans, So I don't know how much
Speaker 4: of it was, how much of the intimidation level or
Speaker 4: the toughness or whatever, like, because when I was a
Speaker 4: fan watching them, so I just saw what the other
Speaker 4: fans saw. And back in those days, you know, there
Speaker 4: was more of a filter that was getting put on.
Speaker 2: You guys, know, a lot better.
Speaker 4: Than me, obviously, but that's the sense I get. So
Speaker 4: Jordan remains kind.
Speaker 2: Of a mysterious figure to me too. Probably he seems
Speaker 2: to not be interested chasing ship.
Speaker 5: If it was one sports movie you could make, what
Speaker 5: would it be? You know?
Speaker 4: That's that's a tough one. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 4: there's some I read a script.
Speaker 2: About the four Red Sox that was pretty good.
Speaker 4: I feel like that story has been told a bunch,
Speaker 4: but for me growing up in Boston, when we yeah,
Speaker 4: it gets lost in New York over and over again,
Speaker 4: you know, and three was that's.
Speaker 2: Right, Yankees, that's true and right now nobody could talk
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 4: That's that's probably the most like moving story to me,
Speaker 4: because you know, that was like still when it just
Speaker 4: felt like we could never ever win.
Speaker 2: This team was never gonna win anything.
Speaker 4: You know, it didn't matter like you know, seventy six
Speaker 4: it did, you know, eighty six they had lost and lost,
Speaker 4: and and then in three was such a such a
Speaker 4: humiliation and then to win that, you know, and how
Speaker 4: many years the curse. I mean, that's probably the greatest
Speaker 4: sports story. But you know, I don't know, sometimes you
Speaker 4: feel like you touch with something like that.
Speaker 2: And fuck with it.
Speaker 4: Like, boy, there's there's a you know, you have to
Speaker 4: like capture it, you know, and that's daunting goodwill hunting.
Speaker 3: You became you and Matt became the youngest to get
Speaker 3: an oscar to age twenty five. You guys wrote that
Speaker 3: two kids from Boston take us back to that time
Speaker 3: and what that meant.
Speaker 2: You know, It's like.
Speaker 4: I hadn't, you know, like no idea that it was
Speaker 4: so close to a time where we were just trying
Speaker 4: to get a movie made to be in it so
Speaker 4: that we could skip like just you know, getting.
Speaker 2: Blocked by the casting director.
Speaker 4: And we thought, okay, if we can get a real
Speaker 4: like a VHS list back, you know, a VHS tape
Speaker 4: that has some performances on it that we're proud of,
Speaker 4: like maybe we can jumpstart our acting careers. And you know,
Speaker 4: the year before those Oscars, I was like in you know,
Speaker 4: in Boston, in an apartment, you know, in a three bedroom,
Speaker 4: watching the Oscars on TV, and you know, like I
Speaker 4: always had.
Speaker 2: And to to go and be there. The next year
Speaker 2: was really like you know, it's this sounds funny.
Speaker 4: This sounds like it's like you know, you're getting like
Speaker 4: you're driving on the road and all of a sudden
Speaker 4: the car hit some ice or whatever start spinning.
Speaker 2: You know. It was sort of like that, like you're
Speaker 2: moving in slow motion and.
Speaker 4: Think, oh my god, am I gonna get in a
Speaker 4: You know, it was like that. It didn't really feel real,
Speaker 4: and it was so unexpected and and it was so
Speaker 4: kind of overnight in a way.
Speaker 2: Those Oscars were because of because of Titanic.
Speaker 4: It was like this huge hit movie and that was
Speaker 4: the Titanic year, and they won all these Oscars. You know,
Speaker 4: we were drafted that and so a lot of people
Speaker 4: watched that show too. We're more famous for having been
Speaker 4: the kids no one heard of than won the Oscar.
Speaker 4: Then people had seen the movie, and you know, it
Speaker 4: was definitely one of those kind of launching you into
Speaker 4: a whole other space that you weren't familiar with.
Speaker 2: It took a long time to get acclimated to that,
Speaker 2: but you know, obviously it was. It was great. It
Speaker 2: was we were just too young to totally appreciate.
Speaker 3: You know, is this urban legend to see what studios
Speaker 3: actually read the script? Did you put a sex scene
Speaker 3: between Will and Chucky and only one actually caught it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we did it actually a scene where he where
Speaker 4: the say this now where the therapist gave Will a
Speaker 4: blowjob in the put it like one sad like and
Speaker 4: then he starts blowing him and we thought like listen
Speaker 4: and yeah, only one one or two actually get back
Speaker 4: the note. It was like, and maybe maybe cut that
Speaker 4: part because we were frustrated after a while of like,
Speaker 4: you know, you you do stuff and then you get
Speaker 4: these notes where it was like, do you give you
Speaker 4: notes to do something that was kind of already in
Speaker 4: the script?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, yeah it was.
Speaker 4: I realized later on that that's actually kind of a
Speaker 4: common thing. It's sort of like you you kind of
Speaker 4: want more of something after you've read it, and so
Speaker 4: you'll ask, but like in a note like I've done
Speaker 4: it myself and realized, oh, I kind of have to
Speaker 4: check myself now, like no, I see that was actually
Speaker 4: in there and I'm just repeating it back to you.
Speaker 4: At the time, we didn't, you know, we didn't get that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm also really young and stupid. I thought were fucking
Speaker 4: punks and like did shit like that?
Speaker 1: Rest in peace. Rob Reiner and Robin Williams as instrumental Yeah.
Speaker 4: Rob, Rob Reiner was here a couple of months ago.
Speaker 4: Right in this room, this is our writer's room, and
Speaker 4: we have folks come by who have like one of
Speaker 4: the things we do with the with the writers is
Speaker 4: like we have like you know, asked like some of
Speaker 4: these really experienced, kind of legendary folks come in and
Speaker 4: kind of talk about their life and career and stuff.
Speaker 4: And Rob did that, and you know, he was an
Speaker 4: incredibly graceful, sweet guy, and he was His company was
Speaker 4: the ones that initially not only bought the script for
Speaker 4: Good One Hunting, but that also we had a whole
Speaker 4: like kind of Beverly Hills cop like Banana and the tailpipe,
Speaker 4: the secret agents that were like following Will around in
Speaker 4: the first draft.
Speaker 2: And he was the voice there.
Speaker 4: Along with the women their named does Glotzer mothers who said, like,
Speaker 4: just cut that ship out.
Speaker 2: You don't need all that stuff in there. You're trying
Speaker 2: to make it.
Speaker 4: Like a fun commercial movie, you know, but you don't.
Speaker 4: You don't need to try to be a bever Hills cop,
Speaker 4: you know, be your your movie.
Speaker 2: And we we were what's this guy talking about?
Speaker 4: And then we did it, and so we were very
Speaker 4: grateful to him, and yeah, it's a sweetheart Robin.
Speaker 2: Of course, it was like one of the greats. Well,
Speaker 2: it's just sad.
Speaker 6: How have you refrained from pimp slapping paparazzi members?
Speaker 2: Lucky? You know, like you, I have lost my temper
Speaker 2: a few times. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 4: I mean you it's it's and again I know everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 4: fuck you, you can play.
Speaker 2: It's not a complaint. I understand.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm aware that there's a lot of that. This
Speaker 4: comes with it, and YadA YadA. I'm past that. But
Speaker 4: the truth is, like with me, the times that have
Speaker 4: been very difficult. I got I was like, okay, you
Speaker 4: want to take a picture of me, Like one thing,
Speaker 4: if I'm coming out of a a vent or a
Speaker 4: club or what I find. But like when I've got
Speaker 4: like my kids, especially when they were younger, I'm trying
Speaker 4: to go get you know, and there's four or five
Speaker 4: guys to try and take your picture, and people are like,
Speaker 4: why do you always look so mad? I'm like, because
Speaker 4: every time somebody takes a picture of me, it's around
Speaker 4: me and I got my kids with me, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: hey man, you want to fuck off.
Speaker 2: I'm with my kids right now. I don't need you
Speaker 2: yelling at me and like, have a little decency.
Speaker 4: You can fuck with me and come find me and
Speaker 4: say shit like driving down the street.
Speaker 2: Whatever. Fine, if that's how you want to make a living.
Speaker 4: But when I'm like, these kids were you know, it's
Speaker 4: about ten and and shit, come on, you know, And
Speaker 4: I always felt like that was a little bit beyond
Speaker 4: the fucking pale. And you know they don't ever show
Speaker 4: that like side. So yeah, it takes.
Speaker 2: It does take discipline, and I haven't I haven't had enough.
Speaker 2: I mean I've gotten mad, you know.
Speaker 4: And so people are like, oh, you always look angry
Speaker 4: or unhappy once you smile, I'm like, wow, I'm mostly
Speaker 4: pretty happy guy. The only time someone's taking your picture,
Speaker 4: when someone's fucking with your children, you're likely to have
Speaker 4: an unfriendly face on.
Speaker 6: You know, we're good at flipping it on those people
Speaker 6: and roasting their real entire lives. So if you ever
Speaker 6: need any help or I want to learn how to
Speaker 6: do this, we're great.
Speaker 2: Are you good?
Speaker 6: You have so many people that coming o me to
Speaker 6: just dispute hate, and we and we don't. We don't
Speaker 6: condone it. We just tell them about their real life
Speaker 6: and it hurts to the soul to the core when
Speaker 6: they have to get off the phone and go look
Speaker 6: at the mirror and realize, damn yeah, bro, that's in
Speaker 6: real life.
Speaker 1: And most of the time though, I just wanted your attention.
Speaker 1: That's what you ain't got to say nothing.
Speaker 4: The worst for me is they're like, come fuck with
Speaker 4: you and your kids and then go there and thanks
Speaker 4: thanks man, thank you.
Speaker 2: That's the thing where I want.
Speaker 3: To what do you say to the people that say
Speaker 3: Hollywood is dead it's too expensive to make movies out here.
Speaker 2: I mean, sadly, there's some truth to that.
Speaker 4: Like going back to what kind of talked about initially
Speaker 4: with like trying to find ways where you know, because
Speaker 4: like where I started in this business was like a
Speaker 4: free before Good Hunting was you know, in a bunch
Speaker 4: of very low budget like two and five thousand dollars
Speaker 4: movie or you know, a million dollar movie, which to
Speaker 4: me that seemed like a lot of money. You got
Speaker 4: to go get a million dollars from somebody, And I
Speaker 4: thought that, like, you know, it shouldn't be that the
Speaker 4: barrier to entry is so high that you know, I
Speaker 4: think there should be, and there are, but it needs
Speaker 4: to improve, like kind of tears where you can come
Speaker 4: in and do something that's you know, not trying.
Speaker 2: To be a very big commercial movie.
Speaker 4: You're trying to take some risks, trying to do some
Speaker 4: interesting stuff that still can use professional people. I would
Speaker 4: love for the for for that to be possible, but
Speaker 4: you know, and part of it's you got people that
Speaker 4: want to work and you know, and that are are
Speaker 4: really willing, especially like here in town. But then you
Speaker 4: know it can cost more in California. The big thing
Speaker 4: is that other states or even other countries give these
Speaker 4: tax breaks, so then it's like you can't compete with them,
Speaker 4: you know, so all of a sudden and yeah, and
Speaker 4: then they'll be okay, New Mexico, mass Veus, Louisiana, Georgia.
Speaker 4: But then they also disappear as kind of whack a
Speaker 4: mole and everybody's or London, like the UK gives up.
Speaker 4: That's why all the superhero movies are all made in London.
Speaker 4: And you know that's I'm sure it's a lot of
Speaker 4: money in the rebates that they're given away, and I
Speaker 4: can't speak to whether or not it's economically viable. I
Speaker 4: assume they're doing it for a reason, but it's so
Speaker 4: much money that.
Speaker 2: You just can't compete with it.
Speaker 4: It's one thing like to say, you know, if you're
Speaker 4: talking about five percent of the budget, it's thirty forty
Speaker 4: percent of the budget.
Speaker 2: You know, you have no real no choice.
Speaker 4: And as a consequence, if something's more expensive, people get
Speaker 4: risk averse. And when the risk averse that they'll tend
Speaker 4: to just do the same shit like and now, so
Speaker 4: you get the safe kind of homogenized stuff. And so
Speaker 4: it's a vicious psycho mess.
Speaker 6: So it's just an educated guess from your experience. If
Speaker 6: you're shooting a movie the minimum not I ain't saying
Speaker 6: like the highest growth, but to do a movie that
Speaker 6: you definitely want to hit the theater that you definitely
Speaker 6: want to be seen, or will be the budget for
Speaker 6: that like just a number.
Speaker 4: Well, if you're gonna make a movie, forget even about
Speaker 4: like some you know, you forget about you know, Dwayne
Speaker 4: Johnson or some huge star like salary. Just to shoot
Speaker 4: a movie that's you know, you know where there's a
Speaker 4: certain amount of like you know, you got your forty
Speaker 4: fifty days of shooting and certain production and it really varies.
Speaker 4: But like people will tell you now, like it's very
Speaker 4: very difficult to make a movie for less than twenty
Speaker 4: five million dollars, right, yeah, and twenty five and it
Speaker 4: can go up very quickly as soon as you're you know,
Speaker 4: you've got a big stunt unit or big action stuff
Speaker 4: or visual effects. And here's the thing with theatrical, which
Speaker 4: is why it's it's very hard. Like you spend about
Speaker 4: the same amount that you spend on the movie to
Speaker 4: advertise the movie. So if you spend twenty five million
Speaker 4: to make the movie, you twenty five million to advertise
Speaker 4: the movie.
Speaker 2: So now you got fifty million dollars.
Speaker 4: Into the movie, and from the movie theaters you get
Speaker 4: back roughly fifty percent. So if a movie makes a
Speaker 4: hundred million dollars, you know, you get back fifty million dollars.
Speaker 4: So if you get back fifty million dollars, that's you.
Speaker 4: You twenty five million dollar movie got a gross one
Speaker 4: hundred million, just in simple math. And there is a tale,
Speaker 4: and there are secondary revenue streams. But that's one of
Speaker 4: the things that has made it really hard to get theatrical.
Speaker 4: That and the fact that people now go, ah, this
Speaker 4: movie looks good, but I'll see it when it comes
Speaker 4: down streaming, you know, And so those two factors are
Speaker 4: really what's caused, you know why you see mostly the
Speaker 4: movies that come out in theaters or you know, Avengers
Speaker 4: and or you know Avatar or whatever it is, you know,
Speaker 4: and a movie, even a movie with that Ryan Coopler,
Speaker 4: who's a huge commercial director and Michael Jordan is a
Speaker 4: huge movie star, that's considered kind of a risk because
Speaker 4: it's not like a sequel, right, you know, and even
Speaker 4: that comes out and blows up and now you know,
Speaker 4: out of them make Centers two, three, four, five, and six.
Speaker 4: But to do something original that's really you know, when
Speaker 4: those guys had to go out and really kind of
Speaker 4: use all their credibility and cachet to convince people to
Speaker 4: do that movie.
Speaker 5: Well, similar to some of the like you did on
Speaker 5: Center see kind of like you're like an artist equity
Speaker 5: type of thing. With how he's structured to feel.
Speaker 4: And how Ryan's are really you know, it seems like
Speaker 4: a very very smart guy and he's been he he
Speaker 4: did a really smart thing with that deal, which is
Speaker 4: that he kind of related to this idea of kind
Speaker 4: of ownership like some of the Heir and the Jordan
Speaker 4: dew earlier, like you're gonna get the movie and you're
Speaker 4: gonna release the movie, but like you know, they're gonna
Speaker 4: be participants in it, and they got what's called a reversion,
Speaker 4: so that Ryan and I assume you know, the other
Speaker 4: principal creators the movie reverts back.
Speaker 2: To his ownership.
Speaker 4: Because there's a lot of value in a movie, the
Speaker 4: movies that are really successful, Uh, they have a lot
Speaker 4: of value in what's called like the tails. Like that's
Speaker 4: why you know people will still they'll still license the
Speaker 4: movie for ten twenty million dollars to Netflix or Prime
Speaker 4: or Max. You know that's been out a long time ago,
Speaker 4: because people will still watch it if it's like a big,
Speaker 4: big hit. So now Ryan will be able to not
Speaker 4: just you know, get a piece of it now, but
Speaker 4: in ten years when they're going to license Sinners again,
Speaker 4: that's I'll go back to him. And he bet on himself,
Speaker 4: right and really now cruised the value of that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: very very sharp, very innovative. It was very controversial. So
Speaker 4: a lot of people were on the studio side were
Speaker 4: mad at War Brothers because it was like, oh, you're
Speaker 4: you're giving away this value. But that's an example of
Speaker 4: like using that leverage. It's like Okay, you Feilure. This
Speaker 4: guy is so good and he's got this cast and
Speaker 4: this script so good.
Speaker 2: He's like, this is what I want change change the business.
Speaker 3: Essentially a lot of people in Hollywood and really just
Speaker 3: overall or a little bit afraid of AI.
Speaker 1: What are your thought what's your thoughts with AI?
Speaker 2: I think there's like two ways to think about it.
Speaker 4: Like I can understand why people are afraid just in
Speaker 4: role of AI, right, Like there's this whole thing of
Speaker 4: behalf of It's like it's gonna be super intelligent and
Speaker 4: it's gonna be skying at in a terminator and take
Speaker 4: over the world like like, which is a little bit like, well,
Speaker 4: let's then maybe just not put AI in charge of
Speaker 4: shit to start with, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I would say that's probably a wise choice.
Speaker 4: I think in terms of like what it can do
Speaker 4: as a tool. I actually think that what I would
Speaker 4: like to see happen is that it be kind of
Speaker 4: owned and integrated into what filmmakers are doing. It's never
Speaker 4: gonna be, and I don't think anyone ever wants to
Speaker 4: see like this whole till, you know or with think
Speaker 4: that that's bullshit. Nobody wants to see or cares about
Speaker 4: something that you know is false. But and like not
Speaker 4: Rio and not a person like I just don't.
Speaker 2: Believe in that.
Speaker 4: I don't believe that's gonna work. I don't believe that's
Speaker 4: a real thing to worry about. I think there are
Speaker 4: some things about the technology that would make visual effects, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, less expensive, and like those things I think
Speaker 4: that we should adopt and not sort of let fear
Speaker 4: mean that the only people that are using that technology
Speaker 4: are people who are like, you know, basically like ripping
Speaker 4: something off or outside Hollywood or you know, because that
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 3: You don't have a blanket fear of it. You feel
Speaker 3: like there's parts that could be very beneficial.
Speaker 4: There's definitely parts that can be very beneficial. Yeah, And
Speaker 4: the idea of looking at it in terms of just
Speaker 4: like all good, all bad. That's like when you think
Speaker 4: about electricity, you know what I mean, Well, when it's in.
Speaker 2: A nuclear momb I think it's bad.
Speaker 4: When it's on a train, and I think, you know,
Speaker 4: it's really that broad a category. It's gonna be about
Speaker 4: like how is it used? And there needs to be
Speaker 4: rules and there needs to be and they're frantically. There
Speaker 4: already are a lot of rules that about like using
Speaker 4: image and likeness, and I think that it's not a
Speaker 4: thing to be so terrified of, but it is a
Speaker 4: thing to kind of step up and define. And I
Speaker 4: think you can present an opportunity, like you have a choice,
Speaker 4: you make your movie. You want to let people you know,
Speaker 4: fool around with your movie and make well, ai you.
Speaker 2: Know, shorts of it. Like if that's what.
Speaker 4: You're good with, you go ahead and do that, and
Speaker 4: you see the benefit of that, and that could be
Speaker 4: one of the ways that you, you know, you profit
Speaker 4: from that. Talking about sinners, if those guys want to
Speaker 4: let people make their little sinners I fight the vampires
Speaker 4: too videos, great like then, but that money should be.
Speaker 2: Going to Ryan and Michael and Warner.
Speaker 4: Brothers and the people that invested in creating that. That's
Speaker 4: that as I think the bigger issue is connecting the
Speaker 4: compensation appropriately to the people that are actually creating the value.
Speaker 4: Because the reason why people want to do that ship
Speaker 4: is because they like the original you know, ip that
Speaker 4: it's associated with that somebody went out and made and
Speaker 4: built and you know, to me that that makes sense.
Speaker 4: But I don't think it's ever even gonna be practical
Speaker 4: or anybody really gives a shit of Just an all Ai,
Speaker 4: you know, sort of animated movie.
Speaker 6: One of the best high highest movies ever. That's the
Speaker 6: shooting scenes in that movie. I mean, just unbelievable. Man
Speaker 6: high five all the way to have a shooting another one.
Speaker 5: Keep me in mind. I would love to play one
Speaker 5: of those.
Speaker 4: Like I give you a recognized guy in the mask,
Speaker 4: and should they be like, well, the one guy that's six,
Speaker 4: he's gonna blend in.
Speaker 2: No, I've got a nun mask on, or no, you.
Speaker 5: Have to keep me in the car. So the window.
Speaker 6: Joe Mizzoula, coach of the Celtics, says why he watches
Speaker 6: the town four times a week and he goes to
Speaker 6: every time he goes.
Speaker 5: To Fenway Park.
Speaker 2: He's looking for exte I love that.
Speaker 4: I don't know, this guy's like, that's like your fantasy,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, your hometown tea all of
Speaker 4: a sudden ting about like you know, I like, I
Speaker 4: thought somebody was bullshiting me when they first sent me
Speaker 4: that thing.
Speaker 2: I was like, what uh, But I mean, what can
Speaker 2: I say?
Speaker 5: Making that movie?
Speaker 2: It was fun.
Speaker 4: I mean, that was a movie where I was like,
Speaker 4: that's where I was like, Okay, I need to be
Speaker 4: make or break for me. So that was one where
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, I put everything I had
Speaker 4: into that and I got I mean, on weekends, I'll
Speaker 4: get like he's migraine.
Speaker 2: I Mean, it was very intense, but you know, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of.
Speaker 4: Freedom to just going like, Okay, I know that everything
Speaker 4: I have is riding on this, so I'm gonna do
Speaker 4: what I want to do and what I think is good.
Speaker 4: And I wasn't too worried about any other outside pressures
Speaker 4: and I loved it. I had great support and and
Speaker 4: like there was great performers in the movie, and the
Speaker 4: crew is fabulous. And that's where I started being like,
Speaker 4: damn it, this is a really a united process and effort.
Speaker 2: It can be it can really get better.
Speaker 4: And that's where I really started to realize as a
Speaker 4: director how much you benefit from you know, get people
Speaker 4: that are great at what they do and put them
Speaker 4: around you, and that is good.
Speaker 2: Don't need to be the smartest and the guy that
Speaker 2: you know be able to go yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker 4: Let's do that and show people that that's how you're
Speaker 4: going to do it, and if you come up and contribute,
Speaker 4: that's going to be integrated into it. And then people
Speaker 4: are like, oh shit, maybe I can have that, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. It's very kind of locked into
Speaker 4: that that process there. But I loved making the movie
Speaker 4: was off.
Speaker 5: And I appreciate it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, look like I could definitely can you can find
Speaker 6: something about problems.
Speaker 2: Kind of give it away because you got that smile.
Speaker 2: You're too warm, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1: Before we get the quick hit. It's just a couple
Speaker 1: of questions.
Speaker 3: Obviously, January sixteenth, the Rip is out on Netflix. May
Speaker 3: make sure you check that out. What makes the Rip
Speaker 3: different from your average action thriller?
Speaker 2: What I like about the Rip is a that's just
Speaker 2: the cast is so strong, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like Tana and Steven youwn.
Speaker 4: We just got like these really really strong performers, and
Speaker 4: it's got a very tight it really knows what is
Speaker 4: kind of like an old school you know, you got
Speaker 4: these cops. They show up, they're trying to you know,
Speaker 4: they think there's a little bit of money in the house,
Speaker 4: and there's.
Speaker 2: Way more than they thought.
Speaker 4: And it's kind of got that very simple proposition that
Speaker 4: let everybody kind of like approach this task and do
Speaker 4: it in a smart way.
Speaker 2: It's just like what would you do and who can
Speaker 2: you trust?
Speaker 4: And that's really what it what it delivers on and
Speaker 4: show the director have a very clean idea of that
Speaker 4: and you let.
Speaker 2: The actors do their thing.
Speaker 4: There wasn't like rules about you had to be one
Speaker 4: way or another or oh this character can't do that.
Speaker 4: So you have this sense of anything can happen and
Speaker 4: you don't know who to trust, and it makes you
Speaker 4: want to keep watching.
Speaker 2: And I'm really proud of the movie.
Speaker 3: Secret to a great action scene, what's the secret?
Speaker 1: You've had a lot of those.
Speaker 4: Make it real like, it has to feel realistic once
Speaker 4: it starts feeling like I really saw that on the Boorne.
Speaker 2: It was the first time when he was.
Speaker 4: Like he's taking a pen and stabbing guy in the
Speaker 4: neck or something. All of a sudden, it was like, Ooh,
Speaker 4: that feels like what you would really do if somebody
Speaker 4: instead of like I'm gonna slide down the banister and
Speaker 4: shoot all of a sudden, that's a fantasy, instead of like,
Speaker 4: you'll make it real like ground it with my advice
Speaker 4: quick hitters.
Speaker 1: First thing to come into mind. Let us know, if your.
Speaker 3: Hollywood career was a basketball career, what year would you
Speaker 3: say is your MVP season? And when years were you
Speaker 3: fighting for minutes?
Speaker 2: Fighting for minutes from oh two to oh seven MVP
Speaker 2: like ninety eight big rookie year, follow up.
Speaker 4: Year then scuffled as they say, and then uh yeah,
Speaker 4: this is where you get This is where this is
Speaker 4: a more forgiving business because you get to keep rolling
Speaker 4: as you get older. And for really me, I feel
Speaker 4: like I've actually feel like I'm my best personally artistically,
Speaker 4: Like how I feel like now this last ten years,
Speaker 4: I'm really happy.
Speaker 6: You know, most irresponsible purchase from a big check earlier
Speaker 6: on in your career bentally.
Speaker 1: This one.
Speaker 2: This dude's read up on me.
Speaker 4: Couple Yeah, early on, you know, not really realizing that,
Speaker 4: like you're not as rich as the paycheck, you know
Speaker 4: what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, half my money where taxes what?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely the mornages and the spine spurs.
Speaker 5: Is costing back there, boy, you had a couple of.
Speaker 3: Them, biggest body transformation you ever had to go through
Speaker 3: for a role.
Speaker 4: Couple one one for the town because the guy was
Speaker 4: supposed to have been like a pro athlete, and uh,
Speaker 4: I probably overdid it for a pro hockey player because
Speaker 4: then I had to meet some of these pro hockey players.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you don't even look that rep.
Speaker 4: But also they had I couldn't get the hockey body
Speaker 4: because they have big legs and the big ass because
Speaker 4: they you know, that shit was never gonna happen. That's
Speaker 4: my real deficit. I hate squads on ship. I always did,
Speaker 4: like armed but the town. And then for Batman versus.
Speaker 2: Super I got it.
Speaker 1: I you know, I felt, okay, I gotta be BigMan.
Speaker 2: That was good.
Speaker 5: M J. Kobe Broun wrankled.
Speaker 2: M J Kobe Lebron, m J Bron Kobe.
Speaker 3: Five dinner guests that are alive. You plus five at
Speaker 3: a dinner table.
Speaker 4: Me plus five at the greatest dinner guests.
Speaker 2: My gosh, okay, whew.
Speaker 4: I wasn't ready for this one, okay, Martin Luther, King, Buddha,
Speaker 4: Jimmy Hendrix by Marley and and.
Speaker 2: Cindy Crawford nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 5: I got it. That's gonna that's gonna be a good time.
Speaker 5: That's gonna be a good time.
Speaker 4: I remember nineteen eighty six, I had a poster Cindy
Speaker 4: Crawford on my wall, and I was like.
Speaker 3: This, well, that was the next question with your childhood crush.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dingo, definitely Cindy cro.
Speaker 6: Hollywood equivalent of a rookie mistake that I made, taking,
Speaker 6: you know, for like the first time somebody offered me
Speaker 6: a bunch of money for a movie, I really got
Speaker 6: into it.
Speaker 4: You know, my mother had made whatever thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 4: a year as a public school teacher, and my dad,
Speaker 4: you know, sometimes had a job, and so all of
Speaker 4: a sudden, you know, people are gonna give you three
Speaker 4: thousand dollars, six thousands.
Speaker 2: A million dollars offered six million dollars for Reindeer games.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't need to read this fucking script. Truly.
Speaker 4: That's the way I thought, was like it would be
Speaker 4: irresponsible and crazy, and like, who the fuck would I.
Speaker 2: Be to turn something down like that?
Speaker 4: And by the way, that they had a movie, you
Speaker 4: had a very good director in Charlie's darons In and everything.
Speaker 4: But the point being, I really didn't understand the cliche
Speaker 4: of like you have to you have to do good
Speaker 4: work and let the believe that the money will follow
Speaker 4: that as soon as you start getting you know, there's
Speaker 4: a reason that you pay any more than somebody else.
Speaker 4: It's because, like, you know, hey, come play with fourteen
Speaker 4: full scrubs, you know over here, and you know you're
Speaker 4: not gonna win anything over there. And that's kind of
Speaker 4: like it's even more extreme because you're like it or not.
Speaker 4: People will associate you with the quality of the movies
Speaker 4: that you do.
Speaker 6: If you can see one person on our show, who
Speaker 6: would it be? But you have to help us get
Speaker 6: your answer on the show. Tanna, Yeah, that's she's real.
Speaker 6: She's fucking spectactus.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she doesn't know how to bullshit, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, tell you the truth. Talking to her is like, yeah,
Speaker 4: it was a lot of fun. She she was just
Speaker 4: she has not political and she's like Dan Taylor's one
Speaker 4: of those people that like leaves every room where everybody
Speaker 4: in the room is much more impressed with her than
Speaker 4: she is.
Speaker 6: I love that you go to the same brunch spot
Speaker 6: in Atlanta, So she's super cool.
Speaker 3: Ben, Thank you for your time. Make sure you check
Speaker 3: out The Rip January sixteenth on Netflix.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate it, all right, appreciate
Speaker 5: Thought