1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: all mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: you to know. As we record today, India is a 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: wash in a series of enormous protests in multiple places 11 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: with multiple groups participating, particularly farmers unions. You may have 12 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: heard some stuff in the news about the farmer protests 13 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: in India. You may have also heard us talk about 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: it on previous Strange News and listener mail segments. As 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: we begin, we'd like to thank the many, many listeners 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: who reached out to us through the show or reached 17 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: out personally to give us, at times conflicting perspectives on 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: this continuing situation, because according to some sources here, there's 19 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: more to the protest than you might think. And and Matt, no, 20 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say a lot of people 21 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: in the West aren't maybe read a couple of headlines 22 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: but aren't totally aware of the situation. Would you agree, 23 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: I would fully agree. And a lot of that has 24 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: to do with it being a kind of difficult topic 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: to pass through. There are a lot of places and 26 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: organizations and rules that exist that are that they just 27 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: don't exist within a lot of our frameworks, right, So 28 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: then you have to do a lot of educating yourself 29 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: to uh, don't do it as a no but as 30 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: a as a as an individual. There's a lot of 31 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: learning you have to do to even really digest what's 32 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: going on. Even even an outlet like the BBC, when 33 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: they're going through and trying to explain exactly what's going on, 34 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: it's it feels a bit difficult because there's just so 35 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: much to get through. And honestly, we we heard, for 36 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: all three of us, heard from a listener who suggested 37 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: this topic in the first place. And we did cover 38 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: this in a much more condensed kind of quick hits, 39 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, introducing some of the terms the main players 40 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: version in a listener mail episode. But that listener did 41 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: right back and say that, you know, they thought that 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: we basically got the gist of it, so obviously this 43 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: is a deeper dive into that topic. Um, and I 44 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: think this might even make for a two parter, right right, 45 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: That's correct, as I was gonna say, this is going 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: to be a two parter. I want to thank everybody 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: reached out UM past our initial listener There were a 48 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: lot of people I reached out to personally online via 49 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: social media to get a better take because your recall 50 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: when we talked about this in our previous Strange News 51 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: and listener mail segments, we did explicitly ask for some 52 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: perspective from people on the ground or people who had 53 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: family members living in India or even participating in the protest. 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: And fellow conspiracy realist, you delivered, and not everyone agreed. 55 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: Not everyone I spoke with at least agreed on the 56 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: ultimate motive of the protests, the origin and the what 57 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: might happen in the future. And that makes sense because 58 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: this is so complex. This Um, this is occurring in 59 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: a country with ancient, ancient his story, right and as 60 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: we'll see, uh, this may also rope in other nearby 61 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,559 Speaker 1: countries that all that come with their own complex historical 62 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: baggage with India. That's one way to put it. But 63 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: I love the point about just how fundamentally different and 64 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: unfamiliar this this situation may seem to a lot of 65 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: people in the West. When we're talking about farmers, you 66 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: may immediately have some Depending on which country you live in, 67 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: you may immediately have some image that pops in your mind. Right, 68 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: some somebody in overalls they got a John Deere tractor, 69 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They're like getting up and 70 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: they they they're getting up before the sun. And then 71 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, there's a moment on a lazy Saturday afternoon 72 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: where they, uh, they look out over fields of grain 73 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: and they think, you know, this is the life. That 74 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: stereotype might be true for some places, right, maybe parts 75 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: of Midwest, uh, United States, but it's not true all 76 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: around the world. So when we talk about the protest, 77 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: we first have to learn about what it is like 78 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: to be a farmer in India. So here are the facts. Okay, So, 79 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: the farming industry in India is absolutely massive. Uh. The 80 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: Economist has a report indicated nearly six of all Indian 81 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: citizens depend on agriculture for their income um. And that's 82 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: fifty of the people in a country with a one 83 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: point three billion population. So I mean, this is an 84 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: incredibly uh incredibly staggering number of people that depend on 85 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: this industry. UM and anything that affects farming has a 86 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: direct day to day impact on the lives of these 87 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: people and therefore the country as a whole. And you know, 88 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: there's this legacy that's been over fifty years running of 89 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: Indian farmers selling only in these um state controlled wholesale 90 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: mark It's that are you know, absolutely regulated and monitored 91 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: by the government, but they're not able to sell directly 92 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 1: to buyers. And this makes for kind of an interesting situation. Yeah, 93 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: this is one of the first places where we can 94 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: bring in a vocabulary word. I believe what we're talking 95 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: about here. These state run areas where you can sell 96 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: these are what would what are referred to as Mandy's. 97 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: So that's something to keep in mind if we ever 98 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: mentioned that again in the show. Is that like shorthand 99 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: for mandatory Uh, you know, I don't know. That's it's 100 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: an interesting question. Is in a n D I as 101 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: this for for somewhat similar US comparison, consider buying a car, 102 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: Like for the longest time, you if you wanted to 103 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: afford you couldn't just right to the Ford Company and 104 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: have them ship you a car. You had to go 105 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: to a middle and a dealership, right, you know, like 106 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: Loco Johnny's uh fantastic Ford Fiesta outlet, they only sell 107 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: Ford Fiestas and and that, and that arrangement is the 108 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: only thing that keeps those dealerships alive. Otherwise you wouldn't 109 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: need them, and you would be able to go directly 110 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: to the company, which I think is what's happening with Tesla. 111 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: I think Tesla owns and operates its own quote unquote 112 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: dealerships that still look like those the traditional dealerships that 113 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: you're talking about, but a different model entirely well, and 114 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: a lot of that was put in place, at least 115 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: theoretically to prevent um quick monopolization of something like the 116 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: manufacturing process, to the selling process, to the you know, 117 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: even if you go back further, the gathering of all 118 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: the materials. So like you, it was like government mandates 119 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: or government regulation to prevent a thing from happening. A 120 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: lot of times, that's why middlemen get involved. Yeah, this 121 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: is meant to Obviously, people are against government regulation in 122 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: the audience today are going to think this is a 123 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: terrible plan. But it comes from theoretically a good place. 124 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: So the the idea, A lot of the issues here 125 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: hinge on something called MSP, or minimum sale price. This 126 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: is a guarantee that is kind of in some ways 127 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: it's a safety net or it's kind of insurance for 128 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: farmers when they sell particular crops. The government agencies by 129 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: these crops at a promised price to the farmers, and 130 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: this MSP cannot be altered. So when you work growing 131 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, onions or whatever you're growing. Uh, the MSP 132 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: in theory means that you will know and advance what 133 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: your crop is worth, and this can protect you if 134 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: you are in a situation where prices plummet for some 135 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: political or environmental reason. You're also able to benefit if 136 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: again in theory of prices skyrocket, right, so you know, 137 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: you know there's not a cap on how much you 138 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: might get, but you definitely know there is a floor. 139 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: So this this is powerful, It seems that way, Ben, 140 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: But just so I understand, so you definitely aren't locked 141 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: in at that it's minimum. So like you still benefit 142 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: from the uh, you know if if a commodity becomes 143 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: worth more, but you're never going to be beholden to 144 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 1: you know, the floor dropping out of the market. Yeah, yeah, 145 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: that's that's the basic idea. According to McCalla Krishta Murty 146 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: of the Shoka University, this means that wherever you find 147 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: a large number of small sellers, they can be vulnerable 148 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: to the actions of larger monopolies. Right, so without like so, 149 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: imagine if we want to continue this increasingly tricky car analogy, 150 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: which I hope I don't regret. Imagine you make rubber 151 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: and that is used in tires, and you don't have 152 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: a huge rubber empire. You have like a small area. 153 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: We make a small amount of rubber, and you say, 154 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: you'll say five hectares worth of rubber plants. Yes, perfect, 155 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: that's exactly how much rubber we make. And the five 156 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: of us on the show today, you listening, and Paul 157 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: and Nolan, Matt and myself, we all live kind of 158 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: in the same area. We all have our hecktakers of rubber. Uh, 159 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: a larger company comes to us and they say, look, 160 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: we know that you need to sell this rubber, and 161 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: we know you want to sell it for ten dollars 162 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: per unit or whatever, but we will will buy it, 163 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: but we'll only give you three bucks. If there was 164 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: an MSP law of some sort. Then the government would 165 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: step in and say no, sorry, we'll buy the rubber 166 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: and we'll buy it for ten dollars because that's the 167 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: minimum price we guaranteed eye law. So in theory this 168 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: could be a good thing, but the problem is over 169 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: time these laws have proved in one way or another 170 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: disappointing to a ton of people involved. Uh. You know, 171 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: farmers will say there's a lack of transparency, which is true. 172 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: They may say there's collusion amidst different players or stakeholders, 173 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: which obviously is going to happen at some point. And 174 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: they'll also say the price there are problems with price 175 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: fixing agreements and then this leaves them out in the 176 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: cold financially. Yeah, and under the current system, at least 177 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: according to numerous government officials, one in particular, who was 178 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: interviewed by the BBC, they state that under this this 179 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: regime of laws the MSP. Using Mandy's and this is 180 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: me quoting him essentially, but he was saying that India 181 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: has been sitting at a fifty efficiency level essentially with 182 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: the farming what actually gets produced and what is actually 183 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: sold compared to what is being um grown. So like 184 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: all the crops being grown versus what's actually being sold 185 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: and consumed. It's a bit strange, but but just essentially 186 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: it hasn't been working perfectly or at least the way 187 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: it was intended to work right, because it's still like 188 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: it are rubber example, Uh, we're talking about monopsony, not 189 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: a monopoly. A monopsony which means there's only one buyer. Uh. 190 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: So you could level the same criticism at times at 191 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: the Mandy system. I say there is only one buyer 192 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: and it's the government for the farm and and technically 193 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: both monopolies and monopsonys are illegal because they can cause 194 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: huge benefits to a single group or individual, but really 195 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 1: unfair disadvantages to the sellers or the buyers in the 196 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: case of monopoly. Yeah, exactly. So, delays in payments can 197 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: force farmers to borrow heavily from money lenders, and then 198 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: this in turn can create a cycle of debt that 199 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: becomes at times impossible to escape. And that is why 200 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: one of the primary stated goals of the protesters is 201 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: debt forgiveness, like have our have are some of our 202 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: qualifying debts cleared off the slate? Either way, you look 203 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: at it no matter and we'll probably say this multiple 204 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: times in this series, no matter where you stand personally 205 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: on the protest, there is no getting around it. Life 206 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: is incredibly tough for many, many farmers in this country. Yes, 207 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: farming is an absolutely demanding occupation across the world, no 208 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: matter what you're growing or who you are, but make 209 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: you know, living this way is particularly difficult, increasingly difficult 210 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: for a lot of farmers in India. Yeah, with with 211 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: any farmer, you're at the mercy of the weather and 212 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: and you know, in a lot of places here in 213 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: the United States, it's food is grown in places where 214 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: the weather is a little less unstable. But if you 215 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: if you look at India, there's there are quite a 216 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: few areas, especially with the amount of land there, in 217 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: the number of places where food is grown. Considering the 218 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: percentage of you know, farmers versus other occupations, I think 219 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: the BBC quoted for inten for inten, people in India 220 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: are farmers essentially. We we we mentioned it was like 221 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: are are mostly basing their income on farming, But like 222 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: for intent are just farmers. But that's not all they're 223 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: dealing with. They've got all the kinds of state and 224 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: federal regulations. Again, most farmers are dealing with that. But 225 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: there there are a lot of particularities you're in India 226 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: that make it different. And the price fluctuates on on 227 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: various crops a lot. So I mean, it's not easy 228 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: to predict what you're going to be able to make, 229 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: what you're going to be able to spend in order 230 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: to make money. And it's also not easy to make 231 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: a sharp turn in terms of what you're producing. Right 232 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: if you if you're if you're like an onion guy 233 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: and you know that the onions onion market might not 234 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: look that great. Uh, it's tough for you to suddenly say, Okay, 235 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: well you know what my thing is gonna be now 236 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: is wheat? You know what I mean. You can't suddenly 237 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: turn the machine very quickly. And it's somewhat inaccurate to 238 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: say onion guy. Because women are a huge, huge part 239 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: of the agricultural system of India UH, and also have 240 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: a very small share of land they actually owned by comparison. 241 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: So that's one of the other factors that comes into play. 242 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: Another one is the lack of what we call mechanization. UH. 243 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: There's there's an economy of scale with farming. Right, anybody 244 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: who has started a home garden or something like that 245 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: can tell you about this economy of scale and the machines, 246 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: the tools and technology they're used in a lot of 247 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: modern farming interest they're not as present for for a 248 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: lot of farmers in India. And this stymies progress, you know, 249 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: it makes you work harder for less, really is what 250 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: it comes down to. And this leads us to um 251 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: a tragic fact that has to be acknowledged here at 252 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: the top. Shocking numbers of farmers have been driven to suicide. 253 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: And this was a trend that was occurring far beyond 254 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: the new laws that triggered the protest before the COVID pandemic. 255 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: When those laws were pushed through and what is arguably 256 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: a conspiracy, India's Economic Times reported that as many as 257 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: forty two thousand, four hundred and eighty farmers and daily 258 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: wagers took their own lives in was a six percent 259 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: increase from eighteen So the situation was already dire for 260 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: many many people. That's heartbreaking. Um, well, we're gonna take 261 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: a quick ad break and then we're gonna come back 262 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: and talk a little bit more about these bills and 263 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: the conflicts with the interests of these workers and how 264 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: this affects their daily lives. We're back, yes, conflict and laws, 265 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: as Noel said. So in September of as the world 266 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: struggled amid the COVID nineteen pandemic, the government of India 267 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: initiated what was called the Indian Agricultural Acts of their 268 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: street name is just the farm Bills. Yes, and and 269 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: there's this is a series of laws or acts, and 270 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: so let's go through them one at a time and 271 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: kind of break it down. The first Act expanded the 272 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: scope of trade areas of farmers produced from these select 273 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: areas to quote, any place of production, collection or aggregation. 274 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: I know that sounds a little bit dry, but it 275 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: essentially what we're going to see as these acts are 276 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: removing so many of these protections that we're talking about 277 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: and almost like creating kind of a fend for yourself 278 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: situation where in the past they had more support and 279 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: more um I guess guarantees. So in in the government itself, 280 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: that specific part of this first Act is saying that, oh, well, 281 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: now the farmer is free to sell their from to 282 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: anyone and everyone. But it just also means but we're 283 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: not going to be there to help you and help 284 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: to subsidize you anymore. UM. Part B of this Act 285 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: allows electronic trading and e commerce of scheduled farmers produce, 286 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: which also on the surface sounds potentially positive and like 287 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: a step toward the future. UM. And then the third 288 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: part of the first Act prohibits state governments from levying 289 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: any market fee uh SESS or levy on farmers, traders, 290 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: and electronic trading platforms for the trade of farmers produce 291 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: conducted in a quote outside trade area. So it's just 292 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: saying like, we are not going to subsidize the trades 293 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: that are outside of our little agreement or those mandy 294 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: um markets. Yeah. And just to be clear, ss C 295 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: E s S is UH isn't a synonym for like 296 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: attacks or a levy or a fine. Yeah. And and 297 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: it's really interesting because it's just it really is trying 298 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: to revolutionize the current system. And what this whole are 299 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: two episodes that we're gonna be covering on this is 300 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: does that mean who does that mean revolutionizing it? For? Yes, Yeah, 301 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: because that's exactly what what's happening here. It's tough because 302 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,959 Speaker 1: if you listen to the official statements it does. It 303 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: has this spin to it that feels like, yeah, this 304 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: is the this is feeling good, the right way to go. 305 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: But as we go deeper and deeper into learning about 306 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: what this first Act does, it's just it seems like 307 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: there's a different picture there, that's that's being hidden. Yeah, 308 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: you're right. And this the second Act gives a what's 309 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: best described as a legal framework for farmers to enter 310 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: into contracts with buyers directly. These contracts me you know, 311 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: pre arranged before the harvest. They can mention pricing, so 312 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: you can go directly too this customer, whomever they may be, 313 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: without having to go through this government mandated system. There's 314 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: a just resolution mechanism without getting too much in the weeds. Uh. 315 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: The third Act removes what's called stockholding limits on agricultural items. 316 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: So this means that before this Act was proposed, there 317 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: there were limits on like how many onions someone could own. 318 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't know why I keep going to onions. Potatoes 319 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: are in there too, Yeah, potatoes and onions are too 320 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: of main food stuffs with it within UH India, right cooking, 321 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: when you think about Indian dishes, you know there's always 322 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: an onion based potatoes are huge staple food in various 323 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: curries and and you know um dishes. Uh, it makes 324 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. And by removing the limits on 325 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: the amount that you have that you can store, you're 326 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: really only that's really only helping any company or farmer 327 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: or family farm that can hold massive quantities, right right, 328 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about it. Well, yes, yes, and uh, 329 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: they do have baked in an exception where they say 330 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: a stock limit can be imposed if there is a 331 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: steep price rise. But what what constitutes a steep price rise? 332 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: That's another question. Oh hey, really before we go back 333 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: in that in the second act, there's that thing on 334 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: the dispute resolution process. Yeah, because that that one really 335 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: is about legal framework overall. It reminds me a lot 336 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 1: of this thing we've discussed on the show before called arbitration. 337 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah they I'm assuming we're going to talk about that more, 338 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: But it gets rang very much like that to me 339 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: as I was reading through some of it. Well, let's 340 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about it now, because arbitration can 341 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: definitely feel conspiratorial. Um arbitration. When you sign something that 342 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: has what's called an arbitration clause, you are agreeing that 343 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: if you have a problem with any of the parties 344 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 1: cited in a contract, it is not going to go 345 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: to court. It is instead going to go to another 346 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: a body of some sort that will here here what 347 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: your beef is and then decide whether they think you're 348 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: legit or whether they disagree with you. Arbitration the a 349 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: lot of arbitrators, and a lot of ar arbitration clauses 350 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: get a ton of criticism because they're seen as crazily biased. 351 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: Like let's say you're working for, um, what's the what's 352 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: the silly company? You're working for a company that makes 353 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: zip lines as remember zip lines from the outside those alright, great, 354 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: So you work for Big Zip and you sign this 355 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: contract that says if you have a problem with your 356 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: relationship with Big Zip or if something comes up, then 357 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: instead of going straight to a court, you are required 358 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: to go to this arbitration council. So let's say one day, um, 359 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: your boss or a co worker does something egregious. You know, 360 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: they are like making you feel unsafe, same weird sexual 361 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: in your windows at you and you're like, hey, I'm 362 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: just here to make these zip lines cool your jets. Uh, 363 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: And then it becomes you know, untenable, and you say, Okay, 364 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the zip line Arbitration Council and 365 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: they hear your claim through whatever process they have, and 366 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: they come back and they say nah, Then that means 367 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: it's a legal dead end for you. And that's that's 368 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: one of the concerns, right, Is that where we're going 369 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: that through the Second Act? Yeah. Essentially, the way I'm 370 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: thinking about it is the system is being set up 371 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: by the government. The rules are being put in place 372 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: by the government in how things will be disputed. And 373 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: one of the big problems with arbitration is that you're 374 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: not like you like you're in that situation you just 375 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: described Ben and you want to raise a flag and 376 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: you want to tell someone and you want to like 377 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: take action against this thing. Rather than doing that independently 378 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: or doing that, you know, with the the laws that 379 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: are in place wherever you are, where the zip lines 380 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: are being created, you now have to do it internally 381 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: with that organization essentially, And that's just what it feels 382 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: like to me, like what the government is setting up 383 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: is a kind of an internal way to settle these disputes. 384 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: I don't know, I maybe I'm completely wrong and somebody 385 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: called me out on it. It's just that's I got 386 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: a whiff of that from this. Now, that's that seems 387 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: like a reasonable assessment. Yeah, the potential is definitely there. 388 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: If not, you know, if if there isn't a proving 389 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: case of this yet because as we'll find, the laws 390 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: are on hold currently. Um, the yeah, being naive to 391 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: say that the potential all is not there, I mean 392 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: in in some form of arbitration exists in pretty much 393 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: every legal system, right, every state level legal system. And 394 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: that's why the criticism of this is so profound because 395 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: people have, if not in the case of Indian farmers, 396 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: they have seen arbitration go wrong in numerous industries in 397 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: numerous countries for decades and decades. So it's it's not 398 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: somebody just like being scared of the legislative wind, you know. Uh. 399 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: But people knew about this stuff before September. It only 400 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: really started getting international press or press in the US 401 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: back in September. But in Punjab people were having smaller 402 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: scale protests all the way back in August because that's 403 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: when those bills were made public and then when they 404 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: passed in a very very a very shady way, forced 405 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: through without counting votes, not really consulting the farmers who 406 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: would be affected by this. When that happened, the protests 407 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: kicked into high gear. There was really some octane added 408 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: to them. And that's why per reports from trade unions 409 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: that UM instituted a nationwide general strike, they say that 410 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: on November two d and fifty million people participated. And 411 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: as we said earlier, that's out of one point three 412 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: billion people. But that's still a huge chunk, you know, 413 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: and that those weren't all farmers, those were a bunch 414 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: of other like union members. Yeah, and this is highly 415 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: highly important to this story. It was it was made 416 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: public in August and then the next month it was passed. 417 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: And as Ben said, those are trade unions. There are 418 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: like essentially farming unions that needed to be consulted in 419 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: order they should have been assaulted in order for this 420 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: to become a law. Uh. And a lot of the 421 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: protest is about that very fact that it was forced through, 422 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: and it felt forced through. I think we just didn't 423 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: mention it before UM at the top here, but the 424 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: general view of these protests that the Prime Minister himself 425 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: and those around him are the ones who made it 426 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: happen so quickly because they knew it was going to 427 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: be so unpopular, right, Prime Minister Moody. Yet, who was 428 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: who was the main character in this story? I mean, 429 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: it's a fair question, is it not. If this bill 430 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: is so wonderful for me as a farmer, then why 431 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: wasn't there a chance for more discussion of it? You 432 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like if countries population was 433 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of chickens and they had elected a fox, 434 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: and the fox said, I've got this new hen house policy. 435 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: It's amazing. You're gonna love it. We're getting rid of 436 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: all those tiresome fences. Anyway, this is gonna be great 437 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: for everybody. Don't worry. It's already passed. Stop you have 438 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: you have the freedom to go wherever you want, right right. Uh. 439 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: And we're we're going to make We're gonna make bigger 440 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: doors too, so that you know you don't have to 441 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: squeeze through them, right, And you can that way, you 442 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: can carry a whole nest of eggs out with you 443 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: if you have to. You don't need an emergency. It's 444 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: for your safety. It's for the greater good. Really. Uh. 445 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: The protest occur in multiple places, so it has some 446 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: similarities to here here in the US, A lot of 447 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: people will be thinking of Black Lives Matter protests, maybe 448 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: earlier protests like Occupy, which was also a multiple cities UH. 449 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: This occurs in Punjab, in Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, UH, Kerala 450 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: and more. We should also know, of course, that we 451 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: are not native speakers, so apologies for any unintentional mispronunciation. 452 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: People marched, They literally marched the Delhi once the railway 453 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: services got suspended in October. This is a mass movement. 454 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: This is not one of those flash in the pan 455 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: protests you know about a Walmart being built or something 456 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: and and a ton of people vultron's up together. Like 457 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: I I don't know about you guys, but I had 458 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: no idea just how many farm unions exists in India. 459 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: The answer is a lot. It's it's a lot more 460 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: than you thought if you thought there was one. I mean, 461 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: it makes sense given the stats we list to the 462 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: top of the show, considering that what is it, fifty 463 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 1: percent UH in a country of billions, you know is 464 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: are absolutely directly involved in that industry. I don't doubt 465 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: that that's the case. You have a lot of different states, 466 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: a lot of different areas, a lot of different products 467 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: and or crops, you know, So there are a lot 468 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: of different ways you can have separate entities that are 469 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: working with different farmers, different organizations, different stuff. But yeah, 470 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: they really of vulture on man and they did all 471 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: kinds of stuff that you do in a protest. And 472 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: one of the big first things was essentially the the 473 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: old school civil disobedience. Let's not necessarily let's not do 474 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: anything violent in the beginning. Let's block progress for something 475 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: small like blocking a road or you know, a border too, 476 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: so people commerce can't continue to happen while we are protesting. Um, 477 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: it's like hurt the purse, right rather than the person. Yeah, 478 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: that's a good way to put it. And this this 479 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: kind of organization at this level is pretty impressive, especially 480 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: when you consider just how diverse the population of India 481 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: is across numerous swaths of demographics. And that will come 482 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: into play later as well. We're where, I know, we're 483 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: we're building up a lot of stuff here, but we 484 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: we want to provide clarity and context. Yeah. They also 485 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: held parades driving convoys of tractors into Delhi. I thought 486 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: the tractor convoy was a cool idea. Protesters alleged that 487 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: the authorities responded with some pretty brutal tactics, cutting off 488 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: access to vital supplies food, electricity, water, and so on, 489 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: and then also creating barricades of their own to both 490 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: reduce the mobility of the protesters or fence them in 491 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: wherever they were camping out, and then also to deny 492 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: the UH wrong type of journalists access to speak with 493 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: these folks directly. The media is a huge player here. 494 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: The media also got conflicted about how to report the protest, 495 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: and you can very easily read a lot of things 496 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: that just if you are just sitting and reading various 497 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: competing articles, you might think they're talking about two different protests, 498 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: two completely different protests. Yeah, that's very true, especially when 499 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: you see some of the footage and and some of 500 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: it is alarming. We were talking about these UH detractors 501 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: that were being led through. You can see footage everywhere 502 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: from the BBC to the Times of India the other 503 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: places where it seems scary with with individuals on tractors 504 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: driving towards large crowds, um pretty scary situations. You're also 505 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: going to see tons of um government security response just 506 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens and dozens of people with large weapons 507 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: like batons, essentially running at crowds and hitting farmers or 508 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: at least you know, getting in scuffles with farmers. So 509 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: there's definitely a violence that's represented either more or less 510 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: in in the reporting, depending on how I I you 511 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: can easily slant to this story, is what I'm trying 512 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: to say, And you will see has been said both sides. 513 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, there's you always have to ask, right 514 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: the the motivations for a source or they're bad actors? 515 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: Is there an olterior motive or are people sincerely telling 516 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: the truth as they see it? But there's there's kind 517 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: of the lay of the land. So farmers unions believe 518 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: these laws will end up destroying the mandy system, and 519 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: they say it will leave farmers, especially smaller poorer operations, 520 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: at the mercy of large corporate forces. That this will 521 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 1: further enrich the powerful while passing the cost of change 522 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: onto the disadvantage tail as old as time, you know 523 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: what I mean. Not to be too beauty and the 524 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: beast about it, But it wouldn't be a sudden plot 525 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: twist for humanity if that were the case, right, some 526 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: of these visuals and as they're being described of like 527 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: you know, um, anti protest kind of almost like goons, 528 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, with batons or whatever beating these people down 529 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: makes me think of like bo tweed union busting type 530 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: scenarios you know from days of of your here in America. Um, 531 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: But it's not that far off. I mean there there is. 532 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: It's a different system, there's different elements of play, and 533 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: there's different stakeholders. But at the end of the day, 534 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: it's about you know, taking advantage of the working class 535 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: and not giving them the protections that something like a 536 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: union or these government contracts afford. That's exactly what the 537 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: supporters of the protests would would clearly argue. You know 538 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: what I mean, big Pinkerton energy right now in these 539 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: protests and the and the way people are cracking down, 540 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: we should mention. You can read the full list of 541 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 1: demands of the protesters which was sent to the government 542 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: back in December. It's pretty easy to find, just search 543 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: on your browser of choice. That's another difference between this 544 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: and UH some earlier protests like the Occupy movement, which 545 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 1: critics alleged did not have a focused list of demands, 546 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: which is very important in these kind of protests. And 547 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: one of the big I guess blanket demands is repeal 548 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: these three laws. You'll hear that repeated over and over 549 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: and over again when interviews with individual protesters. If you 550 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: repeal these laws will be gone. We'll be out of here. 551 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: But it's not that easy. It's never just that easy. 552 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: There's should we get into the pros and cons? Or 553 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: do we want to do that later, maybe after we 554 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: take a quick break or something. Yeah, let's pause for 555 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors, and then let's let's pro 556 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: some stuff and let's con some stuff and we're back. Ben. 557 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody else is feeling this way, 558 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 1: but big Pinkerton energy is my new favorite thing. And 559 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: is that something you came up with or that before 560 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: you need to TM that put it on a T shirt, 561 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: Big Pinkerton Energy, Like whoa bro, that's some big Pinkerton 562 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: energy bust unions, right, oh boy? Uh yeah. We it's 563 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: weird that we have not done an episode on the 564 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: Pinkerton's in this in this show, but they they're one 565 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: of those phantom topics that shows up a lot. So 566 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: for anybody who doesn't know the comparison we're making is 567 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: to the world's first private detective agency that was also 568 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: uh and I think we talked about this a little 569 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: bit on ridiculous history right now. Well, they were also 570 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: instrumental in a lot of dastardly events. Well, they're they're 571 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: kind of the first extra government entity, you know, like 572 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: Blackwater and things like that. And they really represent this, like, 573 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, extension of government activities without actually having to 574 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: follow the laws of governments, you know, and have plausible 575 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: deniability or whatever, which is why you know they were 576 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: employed for those kind of things because they were they 577 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: were able to be kept at arms length so that 578 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: the government or whomever there you know, agents were could 579 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: could kind of distance themselves, right yeah, yeah, And you 580 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: know there were some there were some people who did 581 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: amazing work in the Pinkerton organization, like Kate Warren, who 582 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: was the first i think female detective of the Pinkerton's 583 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: her first female she's known as the first female detective 584 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: and she she protected was it, President Abraham Lincoln with 585 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: her life. They're they're they're heroic stories. But when we're 586 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: talking about big Pinkerton energy, we're talking about the bad stuff. Uh, 587 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 1: we're so we're talking about exactly what you're talking exactly 588 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: what all described, which is circumventing regulations and laws in 589 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: a way that allows for plausible deniability on the side 590 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: of the people who should be obeying the law anyway. 591 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: That's what the that's what the protesters are saying. If 592 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: we look at the pros and cons here, then we 593 00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: know one of the pros is that the idea. Yet 594 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: one of the pros for people who support these bills 595 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: is the concept of freedom of choice. I don't have 596 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: to just sell to this government entity. I can sell 597 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: to whomever I please. Right, So that's that's tricky because 598 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, freedom of choice is one of those words 599 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: or one of those phrases that gets thrown around a 600 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: lot because it sounds good, right as a as a 601 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: talking point, you know, like here in here in the US, 602 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: um we I don't know if we ever talked about this, 603 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: but here in the US there was a huge hubub 604 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: when I sp s internet service providers and the f 605 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: c C. We're we're getting into it into what can 606 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: be regulated, how pricing works, etcetera. And a couple of 607 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: a couple of internet providers in the US, there aren't 608 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: a ton of them, A couple of the big ones, 609 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: uh flashed. I think they increase what people paid for 610 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: the amount of internet speed they got, and all the 611 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: while it was being advertised as responding to the consumers 612 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: demand for freedom of choice. I love the nod there, 613 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: but yeah, sorry, I'm nodding for YouTube. Yeah. It's sort 614 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: of the same way that like the big polluter shifted 615 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: the burden of pollution onto the consumer with these ad 616 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: campaigns for recycle, reduced reusing all that, you know, Yeah, 617 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: right exactly, like, hey, we are we are giving you 618 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,280 Speaker 1: the power. The power is yours. Also, all our mistakes 619 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: are now your fault. Yep, We're gonna keep doing exactly 620 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: what we're doing. Yeah. Um, should we keep going down 621 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: the pros or give a con for every pro to 622 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: like keep it balanced? How do you want to do this, guys? Well, 623 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: let's let's let's back and forth with it, because, uh, 624 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: one one thing that we should be clear about is 625 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: the man of hum sale price guarantee. It's a It's 626 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: a huge issue that gets brought up pretty often, but 627 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: a couple of estimates suggests that only about six per 628 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: cent of farmers are really enjoying the benefits of that system. 629 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: So there's a question about how effective the current system is. 630 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: Nobody is saying it's perfect. By the way, it has 631 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: disappointed everybody at some point. So you can find other 632 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: bite size facts. You can find the pros and cons 633 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: listed to plenty, but be very careful where you read 634 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: those pros and cons, because some people do have a 635 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: horse in the race in their reporting. Uh. You can 636 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: very easily get into the weeds of the bureaucratic process 637 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: of the system as it stands. But I think maybe 638 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: the best way for us to get a sense of 639 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: the conflict here is to, you know, is to read 640 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: the farmers demands themselves, which easily available absolutely because we 641 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,879 Speaker 1: we read the laws right. Essentially, we reread the main 642 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: parts of the laws. Let's tell you exactly what the 643 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: farmers are demanding. We'll just go down the list here. 644 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: Number one is, as we said, roll back all of 645 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: the legislation that just went through. Those three mandates, those 646 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: three laws. The second one is to make sure that 647 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: this mandy system that is that is in place right 648 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: now or has been in place historically for quite a while, remains. Also, 649 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: they they demand that their loans be cleared um and 650 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: also that a law should be made for minimum support 651 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: price to be at least fifty more than the weighted 652 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: average cost of production, and if that MSP or minimum 653 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: support price is not paid, it should be a punishable crime. 654 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: This feels like a very basic thing. Pay us what 655 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: you owe us, right yeah, but you know, right right 656 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,879 Speaker 1: after also clear all our all our loans that we've taken, 657 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: right which is like, you know, to me, feels a 658 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,760 Speaker 1: bit like a poison pill, because that's just my opinion. 659 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: When you put something in like that, which you're just 660 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: imagining all of the money involved with clearing all the 661 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,840 Speaker 1: loans that are currently out through for agricultural purposes in India, 662 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem possible, right yeah. Yeah. But the 663 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,800 Speaker 1: the idea there is that those that third and fourth 664 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: demand are connected because they would argue maybe they only 665 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: had that debt in the first place because they were 666 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: not getting paid. So there's some there's some uh what's 667 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: that song, there's some much better have my money vibes 668 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: for sure. Shout out to Riata, who will make an 669 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: appearance in this series. It's a cameo or setting up. Seriously, 670 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: believe us, the last and the Big Five demands is 671 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: that a law should be put in place that guarantees 672 00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 1: payment from the buyers through middlemen, UH, to ensure that 673 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: banks don't take a little piece of the money in 674 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: the name of loan recovery, you know what I mean, 675 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: Like the way the I R s might garnish someone's wages. 676 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: They said, Okay, don't stop getting a vague banks. Those 677 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: are their demands. I like what you say about poison pill, 678 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: because it may it may indeed be a deal breaker there. 679 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: I just I have to be slight devil's advocate because 680 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: isn't that money that the banks take. Doesn't that have 681 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: to do with paying off current loans or paying off 682 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: current debts? Yeah, like a garnishment almost, Yeah, like tweet said, 683 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: I just, um, like I can imagine a man. I 684 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,720 Speaker 1: don't want to be on the side of banks Jesus 685 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: or big government coming through and making regulations and making 686 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: harder for everybody. But I can understand why they're doing 687 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: that and why those interests are very powerful right to 688 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: push or this legislation. You can see that happening totally. 689 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when we look at what these 690 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: opposing sides want, we see understandable things like From the 691 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,399 Speaker 1: government's perspective, and to be fair, the perspective of some 692 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: other farmers unions in India, not a ton but some 693 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: of them. These bills are at the very least a good, 694 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: if imperfect, first step in fixing an admittedly imperfect system. 695 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: But from the farmer's perspective, from a lot of farmers perspectives, 696 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: these bills will have the opposite effect. They're saying, we're 697 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: gonna have to negotiate with corporate sharks from a massively 698 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 1: weakened position, and these big companies are going to be 699 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: able to come to us and dictate the terms of 700 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: any given deal. So instead of someone protecting us with 701 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,719 Speaker 1: our ten dollars minimum price for rubber, right, we will 702 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 1: be at the mercy of however these companies feel on 703 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: that given day. If they feel in a good mood, 704 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: maybe we get ten dollars. If they don't, maybe we 705 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: get three. We have lost the ability to predict what 706 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: will happen in the future. But there's one more group 707 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: in the conversation here, or one more genre of group. 708 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: As these protests continue, at times turning deadly, some folks 709 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 1: in India and abroad believe there's more to this story. 710 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: They believe that when it comes to the protest, there's 711 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: something the protesters or maybe the government doesn't want you 712 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: to know. And when we when we return in part two, Uh, 713 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: we have a quick here of the facts, but it's 714 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,879 Speaker 1: going to get very crazy, very very soon. We're going 715 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: to be talking about the allegations of a favorite phrase 716 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: in this in the entire sty of our research, a 717 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,439 Speaker 1: hidden callus stinny hand love it big big conspiracy energy there. 718 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 1: We're all were going to talk about authoritarian concerns. We're 719 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,479 Speaker 1: going to talk about a war for hearts and minds online. Uh, 720 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: this this is gonna be a crazy journey. I think 721 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: it was the right thing to make this a two partner. 722 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: What do you guys? I completely agree because, like we 723 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: said at the top, even like with the surface e 724 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: scratch we did on that listener Mail episode, it really 725 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: took a whole episode to fully define all these terms 726 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: and even wrap our heads around. And so by the 727 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,280 Speaker 1: time you're in episode two, we're you're gonna be fully 728 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: armed to take this very real and very current and 729 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,960 Speaker 1: evolving issue on. Yeah, this is how it's going to go. 730 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 1: In part two, Ben's gonna say, here are the facts, 731 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna say, listen to part one, and 732 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,359 Speaker 1: then Ben's gonna say here's where it gets crazy. Oh boy. Yeah. 733 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: And in the interim, of course, we we want to 734 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: hear from you. You know, we're very cognizant. We're very 735 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: aware of the fact that we are uh, we are 736 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,799 Speaker 1: not native speakers, we're outside ters. We have we have 737 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,319 Speaker 1: learned what we know U through reading and through conversation 738 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,719 Speaker 1: with the best part of our show, your fellow listeners. 739 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,720 Speaker 1: So please reach out to us with your thoughts on 740 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: on this protest and how it's being reported. Uh. Please 741 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:22,440 Speaker 1: let us know about, of course, other pieces of news 742 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: in your neck of the global woods, because a lot 743 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 1: of a lot of these stories aren't making it to 744 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: the West in a comprehensive way, and in that lack 745 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: of transparency, of course, speculation will always thrive. We try 746 00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: to be easy to find online for now, at least 747 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: until the Pinkerton's get us. That's right. You can find 748 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 1: us on Facebook and Twitter, where we are Conspiracy Stuff 749 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: or Conspiracy Stuff Show. On Instagram, you can also follow 750 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: us as individual human people. If you wish. You can 751 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at how now Noel Brown. You 752 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at Ben Bolen hs W 753 00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: if you'd like to write to me directly. Uh. You 754 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: can also observe me having various misadventures on Instagram, which 755 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: I've named in a Burst of Creativity app and Boland 756 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: bow l I N Matt. Is this one of the 757 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: episodes where you disclose your personal social media? Yes, behind me, 758 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: there's a Jim Bay drum that is illuminated and if 759 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 1: you can visualize that in your mind to a sharp 760 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: enough level, you can commune. Commune with me at any time. 761 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: It's sitting right here. It is a vessel for spiritual contacts. 762 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: So please reach out to me via Jim Bay. Uh, 763 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,120 Speaker 1: whenever you get a chance. That's the best way, the 764 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 1: only way to fly. You're You're way faster with Jim 765 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: Bay than you are with text. You will admit that 766 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,239 Speaker 1: it just resonates and immediately I'm like, huh, what was that? 767 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,839 Speaker 1: And then we have a conversation. And speaking of conversations, 768 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: if you're not someone who SIPs the social meads, why 769 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: not give us a call directly. We have a own number, 770 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,880 Speaker 1: that's right, It's one eight three three st d w 771 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: y t K. If you choose to call you will 772 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:13,359 Speaker 1: hear Ben's well, let's call them ominous tones as he 773 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 1: tells you, you can turn back or leave a voicemail. 774 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: And when you finished telling us your name, please leave 775 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 1: a message. Keep it as brief as you possibly can. 776 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: If you want to leave anything specifically for us people 777 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: who make this show, put it right at the end 778 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 1: of the message. You've got three minutes. If you want 779 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,839 Speaker 1: to tell us something that's longer than that, you think, well, 780 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: put it in an email. We still have one of 781 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:56,960 Speaker 1: those conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they 782 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 783 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 784 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 785 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.