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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy zefphnvest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Podcasting It's a way of life. Hashtag living, hashtag blessed.

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Speaker 3: Hashtag podcast life.

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Speaker 2: Oh this is me posting a screenshot of our zoom

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Speaker 2: call right now. Podcast co hosts were like siblings hashtag

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Speaker 2: podcast life.

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Speaker 3: Wow beautiful hashtag sisters.

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Speaker 2: We are hashtag sisters. Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, hello and welcome hi to the Bechdel Cast. My

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Speaker 3: name is Caitlin Daronte.

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Speaker 2: We're definitely not going to kill each other. No, my

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Speaker 2: name's Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where we

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Speaker 2: take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional

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Speaker 2: feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off

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Speaker 2: point for discussion.

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Speaker 4: But Caitlin, my sister. Hashtag sisters, podcast sister. What is

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Speaker 4: the hashtag Bechdel Test? Oh my gosh, hashtag cinema hashtag discourse.

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Speaker 3: The hashtag Bechdel Test is a hashtag media metric created

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Speaker 3: by at Ilison Bechdel. Actually I don't know if that's

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Speaker 3: her handle or not off the top of my head,

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Speaker 3: but anyway, it is a media metric that requires our

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Speaker 3: version that two characters of a marginalized gender have names,

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Speaker 3: they speak to each other, and their conversation is about

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Speaker 3: something other than a man. And ideally, for our sake,

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Speaker 3: we like it when it's a narratively substantial conversation and

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Speaker 3: not like throwaway dialogue.

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Speaker 2: And today we are covering a movie that we got

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Speaker 2: a lot of requests for when it first came out,

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Speaker 2: and we said no, But now we're saying yes. And

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Speaker 2: here's why I am starting a podcast hashtag Brave whoa

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Speaker 2: hashtag another podcast, another hashtag podcast. It started releasing on

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Speaker 2: May seventh, and it's a weekly show where I profile

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Speaker 2: a character of the day on the Internet. So think

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Speaker 2: for the first couple of episodes, we're talking about Antoine Donson,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the dress, We're talking about the Boston

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Speaker 2: slide cop who slip slapped, flip flopped down the damn slide.

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Speaker 2: So it is a half reported, half interview show where

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Speaker 2: each week we take a look at not just the

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Speaker 2: character and what happened and why they were so notorious,

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Speaker 2: but also getting into internet history, why did the algorithm

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Speaker 2: serve you this person at this time, and a little

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Speaker 2: bit of like a look or an attempt at a

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Speaker 2: look into why did this person suddenly enter your life

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Speaker 2: to try to upset you on social media even if

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Speaker 2: they didn't usually completely unintentionally. So yeah, it's a little

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Speaker 2: internet history show. I'm really really excited about it. It's

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Speaker 2: also produced by Sophie Lichterman. We've been cooking on it

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Speaker 2: for a while and it started to come out. I'm

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Speaker 2: really excited. Yay me too, Thank you. The trailer has

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Speaker 2: dropped in our feet already. But if you haven't subscribed,

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Speaker 2: hashtag subscribe, hashtag like and subscribe, I'll say it. Hashtag

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Speaker 2: like and subscribe and follow me on Instagram for weekly

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Speaker 2: updates about the new episodes. And so we wanted to

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Speaker 2: put together an episode that would sort of jive with

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Speaker 2: the idea of the show about being extremely online. And

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Speaker 2: there are not as many movies about this as I

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Speaker 2: thought there were, I'll be honest. So this was certainly

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Speaker 2: the movie we've gotten the most requests for that is

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Speaker 2: about the Internet. There's a few others. A lot of

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Speaker 2: them are like do you remember that documentary that came

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Speaker 2: out on Netflix in it might have been twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: scary that was called like the Social Dilemma. I remember that.

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Speaker 3: As I didn't watch all of it. I started it

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Speaker 3: and then I was like, I don't feel good about this.

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Speaker 2: It was so corny. I feel like there's like always

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Speaker 2: sort of this overly simplistic message with movies like this

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Speaker 2: where they're like phone bad and person who use phone

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Speaker 2: bad as well, and you're like, so, anyways, there's like

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Speaker 2: some documentaries about it. There's a movie I haven't seen

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Speaker 2: called Not Okay that came out a couple of years

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Speaker 2: that also touches on this theme, but we had not

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Speaker 2: seen it and we got a request for it. So

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Speaker 2: we are covering today a movie that it was really

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Speaker 2: interesting to revisit for me, Ingrid Goes West, which came

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Speaker 2: out in twenty seventeen. Aubrey Plaza and Elizabeth Olsen both

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Speaker 2: firing on all cylinders. Yes, Caitlyn, what's your history with

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Speaker 2: Ingrid Goes West twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see it in theaters, but I saw it

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Speaker 3: within a year of it coming out, and I will

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Speaker 3: say that and this is just a kind of personal

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Speaker 3: taste sort of thing. But I tend to really struggle

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Speaker 3: with movies where every single character is unlikable and just

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Speaker 3: like you're cringing at them the whole time. And I

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Speaker 3: know that that's the point of this movie, and we'll

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Speaker 3: talk a lot more about it, and I think there

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Speaker 3: is some interesting commentary on social media and its effects

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Speaker 3: from this movie. But it's such a stressful movie for

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Speaker 3: me to watch.

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Speaker 2: It's so like it's like a thriller, Like, yeah, truly,

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Speaker 2: I think it is. Like when the movie ended, I

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Speaker 2: felt like I didn't realize how tight my chest had gotten.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, Which, even though I don't love everything about

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Speaker 2: this movie, I was like, well, I guess it was

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Speaker 2: effective in making my body hurt, like WHI is wild.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to the point where I watch every movie at

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Speaker 3: least twice to prep for every episode we do. And

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Speaker 3: after my first watch of this, I was like, I

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Speaker 3: don't think I can watch this again. I'm too stressed out.

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Speaker 3: But I did anyway, So you're welcome, listeners. Brave hashtag

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Speaker 3: brave hashtag's so brave. But yeah, it's a very stressful

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Speaker 3: movie for me, So I didn't revisit it after seeing

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Speaker 3: it that first time, back in either twenty seventeen or

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, even though I think it has like good

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Speaker 3: performances and you know, it's a good script and things

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Speaker 3: like that. But yeah, too stressful. But prepping for this

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Speaker 3: episode was interesting and I'm excited to talk about it too.

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Speaker 3: What is your relationship with the movie.

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Speaker 2: I saw this when it came out ish, same deal

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Speaker 2: within a year. I don't think I saw it in theaters,

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Speaker 2: but I am an Aubrey Plaza fan. She was like

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Speaker 2: working a lot during this time. But I wanted to

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Speaker 2: see it because I was like, oh, I've never seen

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Speaker 2: a movie about this before, and I feel like it

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Speaker 2: is kind of doing a talented mister Ripley thing but

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Speaker 2: for the internet, you know. I was like, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is a cool concept. But I really didn't like it

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Speaker 2: the first time I saw it, and as I was watching,

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Speaker 2: I was trying to remember exactly why. And I do

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Speaker 2: think there's still things I don't like about this movie,

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Speaker 2: and there are still things that feel very like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: two men wrote this movie, for sure, But I liked it.

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Speaker 2: But when I say I liked, I mean it's like

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Speaker 2: hard to enjoy this movie because it is trying to

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Speaker 2: give you a panic attack in the same way that

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Speaker 2: I feel like Uncut Gems is trying to give you

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Speaker 2: a panic attack. Yes, yes, which you know means that

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Speaker 2: they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the whole time, I was like, I remember what happens

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Speaker 2: with Ingrid, but I'm so scared for literally everyone on

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Speaker 2: screen at all times.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: But I liked it more this time, and I feel

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Speaker 2: like this movie is aging in an interesting way. I

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Speaker 2: feel like at the time, outside of the criticism that

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Speaker 2: I think is still valid of like la la la,

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Speaker 2: women are so petty. On the revisit, I like the

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Speaker 2: script more. Everyone in this movie is petty to some degree,

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Speaker 2: and I think I hyper focused on that at the

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Speaker 2: time and it makes me feel like old. But I

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Speaker 2: think that at the time I saw this, I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is so cynical about the Internet, and I think

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Speaker 2: I just had more faith in the Internet when I

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Speaker 2: saw this movie for the first time than I do now,

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Speaker 2: Like I think that that was a big thing. I

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Speaker 2: was like, yeah, of course everyone is lying on social media.

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Speaker 2: It was true then, it was true. Now It's not

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Speaker 2: like I didn't know that, but I just felt like

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Speaker 2: I still felt some kind of optimism about the Internet

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Speaker 2: that I no longer feel. So I think that the

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Speaker 2: story just in general kind of worked better for me

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Speaker 2: this time. Yeah, but yeah, it's a tricky little movie.

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Speaker 2: I uh sure is. I really enjoyed writing for this,

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Speaker 2: especially like, yeah, because I've been spending the last couple

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Speaker 2: of months thinking about, you know, like what makes an

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Speaker 2: Internet character of the day, how do these conversations online go.

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Speaker 2: I was going back to like letterbox reviews at the time,

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Speaker 2: and I was not alone in thinking that this movie

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Speaker 2: was like maybe dismissive towards millennials in general, of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the reviews I was seeing from people

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Speaker 2: I know people I didn't know were like, we get it,

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Speaker 2: phone bad, too much Instagram blah blah blah. But it

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Speaker 2: felt easier to brush off then. And maybe that's just

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Speaker 2: because social media has gotten so much worse since twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: and this movie has obviously a very uncharitable opinion of

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Speaker 2: social media. I feel like people I know who didn't

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Speaker 2: like this or like rolled their eyes at it at

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Speaker 2: the time might like it better now. I think, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, Yeah, yeah, I would be curious because I

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Speaker 2: don't think that. I mean, it wasn't a popular enough

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Speaker 2: movie that I don't think anyone has really revisited it.

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Speaker 2: But it's weirdly like one of the only movies of

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Speaker 2: this genre at least that I've seen.

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Speaker 3: Same. Yeah, it's quite unlike most things. Yeah, I said

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Speaker 3: brilliantly hashtag brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Hashtag genius. I also think I didn't know who Whyatt

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Speaker 2: Russell was the last time I saw this movie. I

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Speaker 2: think the main thing this movie did for me at

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Speaker 2: the time is made me a fan of Oh Jackson Junior.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think this was also the first thing I

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Speaker 3: saw him. And I can't remember if I saw when

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Speaker 3: did Straight Out of Compton come out?

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Speaker 2: That came out in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so maybe I had already seen him in that.

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Speaker 2: I had seen him in that, But that movie is

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Speaker 2: just like what isn't very good? Yeah, I love f

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Speaker 2: Gary Gray, but I've liked them. I don't think anyone

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Speaker 2: thought that movie was very good. In any case, this movie,

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to shout out and oops, all nepotism

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Speaker 2: cast with You've got Osha Jackson Junior.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, an ice cube, you've.

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Speaker 2: Got Elizabeth Olsen the older younger ooh, younger sister, I

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Speaker 2: think of the Olsen twins.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she's younger, younger, she's born in nineteen eighty nine. Wow,

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Speaker 2: she is younger than I thought. And then Wyatt Russell,

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Speaker 2: who's double NEPO Kurt Russell and Goldie Hans.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I did not realize that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is majority NEPO cast. No judgment. I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying it's funny. And I don't think I knew

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Speaker 2: that at the time. I knew who Osha Jackson Junior was.

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Speaker 2: I don't really care about Marvel movies, so this might

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Speaker 2: have been the first movie I saw Elizabeth Olsen in

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: Well. Other her Marvel connection is the actor who plays

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Speaker 3: Harley Chung. Her name is Tom Clement type it is

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Speaker 3: maybe how you U say it. She plays Mantis in

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Speaker 3: We'll see in the Other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, boy does she I did not connect that at all. Wow.

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Speaker 2: So we've got a lot of Marvel, We've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of NEPO. We've also got Billy Magnuson, who I

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Speaker 2: think is neither but I like him. But boy, is

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Speaker 2: his character a piece of shit? I was like, horrible,

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Speaker 2: sort of rooting for Ingrid to finish him off. But yeah, anyways,

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Speaker 2: the movie. The movie.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's take a quick break and we'll come back

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Speaker 3: to recap.

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Speaker 2: And we're back, all right.

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Speaker 3: So here's the recap. I will place a content warning

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Speaker 3: at the top here for suicide. We meet Ingrid Sorburne

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Speaker 3: played by Abby Plaza. She is crying and scrolling through

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Speaker 3: Instagram photos of a wedding of someone named Charlotte. Then

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Speaker 3: we get the reveal that Ingrid is at the wedding,

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Speaker 3: crashing it, and she walks up to the bride, Charlotte,

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Speaker 3: and Pepper sprays her and says like, thanks for inviting me,

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Speaker 3: you fucking kunt, which does pass the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 2: I thought that too, yay, okay.

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Speaker 3: So then we see Ingrid in a psychiatric hospital and

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Speaker 3: she's still attempting to contact Charlotte via a letter I think,

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Speaker 3: in which we learn that Ingrid's mom has recently passed away.

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Speaker 3: Then Ingrid is released from the hospital and we see

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Speaker 3: her continue to obsessively scroll through Instagram. Then she sees

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Speaker 3: a magazine article about someone named Taylor Sloan played by

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Olsen. Taylor is an influencer with over two hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty thousand followers on Instagram. She lives in LA

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Speaker 3: She's very attractive, she has cute stuff, and she posts

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Speaker 3: photos of her life on Instagram, of her clothes, her meals,

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Speaker 3: her husband, her dog. You know, typical influencer stuff.

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Speaker 2: I remember vaguely, and listeners, let us know if you

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Speaker 2: agree that it felt a little dated even in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's like sort of like early early Instagram,

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Speaker 2: where it's like heavy on the filters, a lot of food,

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Speaker 2: a lot of hashtags, and like even by twenty seventeen

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Speaker 2: that wasn't really happening, but it did feel like going

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Speaker 2: in like a little social media spaceship into the past,

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Speaker 2: because people don't really do that now. They're like conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theorists or podcasters or both or both.

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Speaker 3: I can't super speak to it because I've never been

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Speaker 3: very active on Instagram and I only started using it

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Speaker 3: around the time this movie came out. What if this

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Speaker 3: movie inspired me to start on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I think I started using it like in Earnest in

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Speaker 2: like twenty fifteen. Okay, but even that was like a

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Speaker 2: little bit after. I feel like this peak kind of influencer,

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Speaker 2: but it's interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is interesting. Yeah, I was not, and I'm

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Speaker 3: still not a big user of the platform, and mostly

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Speaker 3: I just use it to get news and look at

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Speaker 3: cat videos. So those are my influencers.

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Speaker 2: I mean same.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So Ingrid is reading about Taylor Sloan and scrolling

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Speaker 3: through her Instagram and she is mesmerized by what she sees,

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Speaker 3: you know, this glamorous southern California life. And Ingrid comments

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Speaker 3: on a post of Taylor's which is a photo of

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Speaker 3: avocado toast.

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Speaker 2: Hashtag millennials, that's how our generation ruined the economy. I

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Speaker 2: loved that storyline.

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Speaker 3: That's why we aren't paying back our student loans because

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Speaker 3: we're spending all of our money on avocado toast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah damn, We're so messy anyways.

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Speaker 3: Right, So then Ingrid is out getting groceries and she

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Speaker 3: overhears one of Charlotte's friends talking about Ingrid saying that

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Speaker 3: she and Charlotte weren't even friends. That Ingrid basically instagram

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Speaker 3: stocked Charlotte and we're like, hmm, that's interesting. And Ingrid

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Speaker 3: is crying about this, But then she sees that Taylor

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Speaker 3: has responded to her comment, recommending that she try out

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Speaker 3: a particular restaurant the next time she's in LA, and

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Speaker 3: Ingrid is thrilled, and this seems to prompt Ingrid to

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Speaker 3: move to LA, especially after she receives somewhere around a

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Speaker 3: like sixty thousand dollars inheritance or like life insurance payout

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Speaker 3: or something of that nature after her mom passed away.

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Speaker 3: So she arrives in LA and rents an apartment from

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Speaker 3: Dan Pinto played by oh Jackson Jr. He is an

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Speaker 3: aspiring screenwriter who is obsessed with Batman. Hilarious Yeah, I mean, great.

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Speaker 2: Character and also oh my god, like again just another

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Speaker 2: anxiety inducing person. Yes, like aspiring screenwriter slash landlord as

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Speaker 2: such a stressful m description.

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Speaker 3: The thing though about all of these characters is they

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Speaker 3: are not even really caricatures of a lot of LA people.

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Speaker 3: Like everyone in this I'm like, yeah, I've encountered someone

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Speaker 3: pretty much exactly like that here in La.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So so there's that anyway. So Ingrid is now living

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Speaker 3: in LA and she starts going to the shops and

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Speaker 3: restaurants and salons that Taylor posts about on social media.

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Speaker 3: She reads the same books as Taylor, she buys the

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Speaker 3: same stuff. All of that I like that.

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Speaker 2: Taylor is so us in the sense that she lies

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Speaker 2: about reading books.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, we're supposed to be mad about

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Speaker 2: that she's busy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we find out that she's never She claims that

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Speaker 3: The Deer Park is her favorite book, and then we

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Speaker 3: find out she's never read it, and we're like.

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Speaker 2: Wow, oh well, oh well, we.

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Speaker 3: Don't read books either, Taylor. It's okay. So then one

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Speaker 3: day Ingrid bumps into Taylor at a store, and Ingrid

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Speaker 3: is trying to act cool but also like trying to

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Speaker 3: get Taylor to notice her, and Taylor definitely does notice her,

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Speaker 3: but it's because Ingrid is not acting cool. She's being

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Speaker 3: very awkward. She almost like absent mindedly shoplifts, you know,

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Speaker 3: stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: She's doing Aubrey Plaza. This is what Aubrey Plaza characters

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Speaker 2: do at this time, and I'm still kind of yeah.

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Speaker 3: So then Ingrid stalks Taylor to her house and stays

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Speaker 3: there all day, and then when Taylor leaves to go

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Speaker 3: out that night, Ingrid kidnaps her dog so that she

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Speaker 3: can return the dog to Taylor and seem like a hero,

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Speaker 3: which works. Taylor and her husband, Ezra played by Wyatt

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Speaker 3: Russell are so grateful and they're like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: let us make you dinner. So Ingrid stays for dinner.

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Speaker 3: They're having a nice time, and Ingrid does whatever she

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Speaker 3: can to endear herself to them. She buys a piece

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Speaker 3: of Ezra's art, which is ugly.

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Speaker 2: She it's bad.

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Speaker 3: It's not good.

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Speaker 2: If we can't say that men's art is bad on

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Speaker 2: this show, why do we even start it? Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is where she goes full mister Ripley mode, because even

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Speaker 2: though she's socially awkward, she's really great at intuiting. Although

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Speaker 2: at some point I will say, I mean, it's just

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Speaker 2: it's not a feminist criticism of the movie. But at

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Speaker 2: some point during the middle of this movie, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: would she continue to get away with this? Like, if

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Speaker 2: I'm Elizabeth Olsen, once I see that she has a

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Speaker 2: gun with her, I'm like, I'm gonna get out of here.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna leave, you would think yeah.

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Speaker 2: But anyways, she's ripleying. She's working on another level.

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Speaker 3: Because she also offers to haul their trailer to the

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Speaker 3: house they have in Joshua Tree because they need someone

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Speaker 3: with a truck. Only Ingrid doesn't have a truck, but

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Speaker 3: her landlord Dan Pinto does so she asks to borrow

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Speaker 3: it and he is reluctant, but he also has a

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Speaker 3: crush on her and agrees to lend Ingrid the truck

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Speaker 3: if she plays Catwoman in an upcoming table read for

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Speaker 3: his unauthorized Batman screenplay.

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Speaker 2: They are so stressful, as like, she does him dirty

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Speaker 2: time and time again. She's the worst, But it is

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Speaker 2: also so mean to ask someone to do a Batman

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Speaker 2: table read with you.

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Speaker 3: True, although I was kind of taking inventory of all

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Speaker 3: of the characters, and then I was trying to think, like,

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Speaker 3: of these people, if I had to be friends with

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Speaker 3: one of them, Oh, who would it be? And it

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Speaker 3: would be him and we would just talk about Batman.

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Speaker 3: I guess it would be him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you would see him like once every three months

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Speaker 2: and be kind of exhausted at the end of the hang,

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Speaker 2: but be like he's a nice guy. Whatever. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wish it wasn't a landlord, but times are tough. I

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Speaker 2: guess it's like, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, he's not selling his illegal Batman scripts that he's writing,

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Speaker 3: so he's got to make money somehow.

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Speaker 2: It's true. God, landlords with dreams.

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Speaker 3: Gross anyway, So Ingrid gets the truck and takes Taylor

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Speaker 3: and her trailer, which I think should be the name

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Speaker 3: of a hashtag podcast.

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Speaker 2: Maybe a Taylor's Swift the podcast.

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Speaker 3: She takes them to Joshua Tree, except that she pretends

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Speaker 3: it's her truck slash that she's borrowing it from her

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Speaker 3: boyfriend Dan. She makes up a story about how Dan

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Speaker 3: is actually her boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: I do like this is just like something I think

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Speaker 2: is fun in movies where for no reason at all,

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Speaker 2: a character is almost always referred to as their full name,

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Speaker 2: And like Dan Pinto, just like it just trips off

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Speaker 2: the tongue, and people just love to say. They don't

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Speaker 2: want to just say Dan, They want to say Dan Pinto.

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Speaker 3: Dan is not enough syllables. You need the whole thing,

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Speaker 3: Dan Pinto's true.

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Speaker 2: You need to keep the momentum going exactly. He doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem bothered by it, so.

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Speaker 3: Whatever, Yeah, okay. So on the way to Joshua Tree,

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Speaker 3: Taylor is like, oh my god, Ingrid, you're so funny.

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Speaker 3: I love you. You're my favorite person. Let's take pictures together.

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Speaker 3: And obviously Ingrid is loving this, and Ingrid bails on

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Speaker 3: Dan Pinto's Batman script. Table read in favor of spending

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Speaker 3: more time with Taylor. They do cocaine, they go out dancing,

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Speaker 3: they're bonding, and on the way to the Joshua Tree house,

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Speaker 3: Ingrid fucks up Dan's truck because they're so distracted by singing.

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Speaker 3: Casey and JoJo's all my life to each other, and

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Speaker 3: so the truck is all fucked up, and Taylor's like,

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Speaker 3: don't even worry about it. Everything's gonna be fine. And

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Speaker 3: then Taylor tells Ingrid a secret that she plans to

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Speaker 3: buy the house next door in Joshua Tree and open

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Speaker 3: up a boutique hotel where everything inside is for sale,

400
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: which sounds I hate it, but yeah, well no, it

401
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Speaker 3: sounds horrible.

402
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: Horrible, I mean horrible. Yeah, that's like something that changed

403
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: between my first view the first time I saw this

404
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: movie and now you're like, oh, everyone in this movie

405
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: is horrible. Yes, because maybe I felt like the writing

406
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: was on the side of her, her husband, but on

407
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: a rewatch, I actually think this movie is on the

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00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: side of nobody. It's a pretty cynical. Yeah, like everyone

409
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Speaker 2: sucks Her idea for an influencer hotel is horrible. Truly,

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Speaker 2: it's gross, but I'm sure it would have worked. I

411
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Speaker 2: mean for sure. I mean like that feels very like

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Speaker 2: Joshua Tree gentrification vibes, you know, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Ingrid is like, oh my god, it's the

414
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 3: best idea of ever Taylor. And Taylor doesn't want her

415
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Speaker 3: husband Ezra to know about this because of financial reasons,

416
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Speaker 3: so now they have this little secret. The next day,

417
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Speaker 3: they return to La and Ingrid drops off Dan's truck.

418
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Speaker 3: He's furious at her for bailing on the table read

419
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Speaker 3: and leaving this huge scratch on the truck.

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Speaker 2: This is the point where you're just like, does she

421
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: really get out of this scrap in real life? But

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Speaker 2: I guess I never underestimate a horny straight guy, Like

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Speaker 2: maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Right, it causes like he says, eight thousand dollars of

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Speaker 3: damage to his truck, and he forgives her because she's like,

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Speaker 3: let's go on a date and he's like, Okay, I

427
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Speaker 3: like you and I want to have sex with you.

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Speaker 2: So dude's rock.

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Speaker 3: But he's like yelling at her in this scene, but

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Speaker 3: she doesn't even freaking care because she has just gotten

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Speaker 3: a notification that Taylor tagged her in a photo on Instagram.

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Speaker 3: So Ingrid is on cloud nine and she keeps hanging

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Speaker 3: out with Taylor. She's spending a lot of her money

434
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 3: on clothes and home decorps to impress Taylor. Then Ingrid

435
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 3: meets Taylor's brother, Nicki played by Billy Magnuson, who comes

436
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 3: to La for a visit, and Ingrid is jealous that

437
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: he's commanding a lot of Taylor's attention, especially when Taylor

438
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: bails on plans that she and Ingrid have to hang

439
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: out in order to go to a party with Nicki

440
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: and this fashion influencer Harley Chung played by Palm clement Tyfe.

441
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 3: Ingrid tries to go to this event but then like

442
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: can't get into the VIP area and they're like, ooh,

443
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: sorry about that, but hey, why don't you come to

444
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 3: a pool party this weekend that Harley is throwing and

445
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 3: bring your boyfriend Dan because they were joking behind Ingrid's

446
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: back that her boyfriend is imaginary.

447
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: Oh god, one of the many scenes that oh, like

448
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: just made my chest tighten. I can't write like that

449
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: to like find a moment like that where it's like

450
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: Taylor is caught in a lie being like, oh, I

451
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: didn't say your boyfriend doesn't exist, and like, Ingrid knows

452
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: people are talking shit around her back, but she's just like,

453
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 2: I gotta make it through this interaction. And you're like, oh,

454
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,239
Speaker 2: it's just so painful.

455
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 3: It is, and they're not even wrong because Dan isn't

456
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 3: her boyfriend.

457
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: No, it is wild how easy it is for Ingrid

458
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: to be like, you're my boyfriend. He's like totally okay, yeah,

459
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: yeah right.

460
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: So now Ingrid has to make amends with Dan Pinto,

461
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 3: who is still pissed for the truck fiasco and the

462
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 3: table read thing. But she buys him some Batman gifts

463
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: and some weed, and she takes him out to dinner

464
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: and it's like kind of a date and then they

465
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 3: start making out and then they go to his place

466
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 3: and have sex and they're doing like batman catwoman role

467
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: play and he's like whoo. And she invites him to

468
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: this pool party and he agrees to go. So at

469
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: the pool party, Ingrid is being very unchill because she

470
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: keeps feeling like Dan is embarrassing her. Dan is bonding

471
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 3: with Nicki, who Ingrid still hates, and most importantly, it's

472
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: obvious that Taylor is less enthusiastic about her friendship with

473
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: Ingrid because Taylor has clearly moved on to Harley as

474
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 3: her new like bff of the moment, and Ingrid is

475
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: very jealous. So she betrays Taylor and tells Ezra about

476
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: that secret they had the you know, boutique hotel idea yeah,

477
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: and Ezra is like, oh, so typical because his wife

478
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: has become so phony recently, not like me. He's an artist.

479
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's somebody interesting, like yeah, how he talks like

480
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: his wife like that Taylor bullied him into being I'm like,

481
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 2: you have agency here as raw yeah okay, yes, and

482
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: he sort of resents her for being supportive.

483
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, yeah right, but he's also like pretentious

484
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: and yeah he's shitty in his own way. They're the worst, yes,

485
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 3: but in different ways.

486
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: Okay.

487
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: So then Ingrid can't find her phone because Nikki had

488
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 3: swiped it, and he finds all of these photos that

489
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: Ingrid took of stuff in Taylor's bathroom and photos of

490
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: Taylor sleeping and no of all of Taylor's favorite things,

491
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: and Nicki is like, what the fuck, you creep, and

492
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: he claims to be looking out for his sister, but

493
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 3: then he's like, I won't tell Taylor if you give

494
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: me five thousand dollars a month, so he's trying to

495
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: extort her, and she then pays some guy to punch

496
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: her in the face so that it's more believable when

497
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: Ingrid tells Dan that Nicky assaulted her, so that Dan

498
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: will help her scare Nikki off because she knows that

499
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: Dan has a gun, so they kidnap Nicki and drive

500
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: him out to the desert. Nicki fights back, but then

501
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: Ingrid hits him over the head with a crowbar or

502
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: something and leaves him there.

503
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: It's very like hijinksy. This movie sort of deviates into

504
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 2: hijinks occasionally.

505
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: For a moment here and there.

506
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, do we know why Dan Pinto has a gun?

507
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: It's not a real gun. It is a paintball gun.

508
00:30:58,840 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: Right right right?

509
00:30:59,640 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: Right?

510
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because I was like, he is a dorc

511
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: why is he? M? M okay it's painpal gun. Yes, yes.

512
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: So Dan ends up in the hospital after this altercation

513
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 3: with Nicki, and Taylor calls Ingrid and she's like, hey,

514
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: do you know where my brother is? And she's like,

515
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: definitely not, but I'm sure he's fine.

516
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: Let's get avocado toast.

517
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: Girly, and then Ingrid finds out that Taylor has taken

518
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: another trip to Joshua Tree, so Ingrid drives there to

519
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 3: stalk her. Yeah, but then finds out that Taylor is

520
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: not actually there and that she doesn't want to see

521
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: or talk to Ingrid anymore because she found out what

522
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: Ingrid did to Nicki her brother.

523
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: And I think kind of like massively underreacts. Yeah, not

524
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: that I would advise involving the police, but it just

525
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: didn't make sense to me. It seems like Taylor would

526
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: have no issue calling the police, you know what I mean, right.

527
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: I was surprised at how generous she was in that situation,

528
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: because I'm like, if I were Taylor, I would be like,

529
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: I don't feel safe for sure. That's scary.

530
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: There's some comment that I think Ezra makes to the

531
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 3: effect of, if Nicky didn't try to extort you, you'd

532
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: be in jail right now. So I think that because

533
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: Nicky did something illegal, that's why they don't go to

534
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 3: the police. But I don't know the logic of these choices.

535
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: It's confusing.

536
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 3: In any case, Ingrid makes this situation even worse by

537
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 3: calling Taylor many times and leaving a bunch of voicemails

538
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 3: then Ingrid puts a down payment on a house in

539
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 3: Joshua Tree, the house next to the one that Taylor

540
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: owns aka the house that Taylor wanted to buy to

541
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: turn into the boutique hotel. But this is the last

542
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: of Ingrid's money, so now she broke. She's living in Squalor.

543
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: She sees then that Taylor's having a Halloween party next door,

544
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: so she puts on like a white sheet to pretend

545
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: to be a ghost and crashes the party, and Taylor

546
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: and Ezra and Nikki are all like, what the fuck

547
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 3: are you doing here? Leave us alone? So then Ingrid

548
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 3: goes back to her house and records a video of

549
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: herself saying that everything she's posted in the past few

550
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 3: months has been a lie. She has not been living

551
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: this glamorous la life. She's a loser. She knows that

552
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: something is wrong with her, but she doesn't know how

553
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 3: to fix it or how to change. She feels lonely,

554
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: she feels despair, and she posts this video to her

555
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: followers on Instagram, which she's accumulated I think like a

556
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: few thousand, I'm guessing because of her proximity to Taylor

557
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: and like being tagged in photos of Taylors and things

558
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: like that. This video is effectively a suicide note. She

559
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: posts it and then she attempts suicide. She wakes up

560
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 3: in the hospital having survived because Dan had seen the

561
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: video and called nine to one one, and so she survives,

562
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: and she learns that the video she posted went viral,

563
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 3: and now she has tons of followers and people who

564
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: care about her and who have sent her gifts and

565
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: all of this stuff. She's even a hashtag. And so

566
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: the movie ends on this note, or at least my

567
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 3: interpretation of it, is that she has learned nothing and

568
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: she'll continue to seek validation from social media and other

569
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: kind of like superficial sources.

570
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: The end.

571
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 3: So that's the movie on.

572
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: That awesome note. Let's take a quick break and we'll

573
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: be right back, and we're back. Okay, Yeah, this movie

574
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: is really challenging. Okay, So I want to talk about

575
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: some of the criticism of this movie that came out

576
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: at the time, because I think a lot of it

577
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 2: is valid, and I also kind of want to revisit

578
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: it a little bit because I think that this movie

579
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 2: does not do great on the subject of mental health.

580
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: Agree.

581
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: I think that that is like one of its major flaws,

582
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: but the way that it fumbles it. I think I

583
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: feel differently than I did when I first saw it,

584
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: because it feels like Ingrid is a destructive She's struggling

585
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: with mental illness and grief the entire movie, and we

586
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: know this about her, and she is unable to get

587
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 2: the help that she needs, and it feels like she

588
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: is stuck in this. I think I originally was like

589
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: my first viewing at this, I was like, Oh, we're

590
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: supposed to hate Ingrid, but I didn't really feel that

591
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: way this time. I felt like it. And maybe I'm

592
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: giving the movie too much credit, but it was It's like,

593
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: because social media was and is such an under explored

594
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: addictive process, It's like every time like she has the

595
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: drug in her hand at all times, and no one

596
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 2: really acknowledges it as an addiction and as a drug

597
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: that can exacerbate and make the mental illnesses that she's

598
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: struggling with even harder to deal with. And so I

599
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: don't know, it's tricky because she does so many unforgivable things.

600
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: But I did find myself like empathizing with her because

601
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: I've struggled with mental illness and like OCD specifically, and

602
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: social media is designed to make that worse and designed

603
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: to encourage that and attach social currency and the concept

604
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: of acceptance to that. So, like I, while I cannot

605
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: relate with kidnapping Billy Magnuson and like, you know, completely

606
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 2: uprooting my life, I did feel like it was interesting

607
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: to see a character who is struggling with obsessive thoughts

608
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: and compulsive behaviors and how social media is absolutely designed

609
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 2: to make that worse. The way it's handled from moment

610
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 2: to moment, I feel like is all over the place

611
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: for me.

612
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 3: Right, because, like the movie's agenda is very clearly to

613
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: examine what social media can do to people's mental health,

614
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 3: how it can encourage an impulse for people to compare

615
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: themselves to others, how it can breed loneliness. And then

616
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 3: on the kind of influencer side of things, it shows

617
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 3: how their job is to hawk stuff, whether that's like

618
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 3: food at a restaurant, apparel, accessories, makeup whatever, or just

619
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 3: like a general like image or lifestyle almost and how

620
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: doing that basically encourages that impulse to compare yourself to

621
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: others and feel insecure and feel lonely, and how it's

622
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: just like this cyclical mess, and the movie acknowledges that

623
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 3: and explores it. But like you were saying, as far

624
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 3: as how it handles it, and especially handles mental health.

625
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 2: As well as like suicidality, I've felt.

626
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 3: Like I'm not thrilled with it.

627
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

628
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 3: On one hand, I do think the movie could be

629
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: a lot more judgmental of people who are like influenced

630
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 3: by influencers, especially for a movie that was written and

631
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 3: directed by men, because men often have a habit of

632
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 3: observing women and kind of misinterpreting what is going on.

633
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: So I feel like it would have been very easy for,

634
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: you know, most male filmmakers to observe women who are

635
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 3: on both sides of the like influencer social media phenomenon

636
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 3: and cast a lot of judgment on them, the way

637
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: that men constantly cast judgment on women for things like

638
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 3: feeling pressure to adhere to societal expectations that men largely reinforce. Right,

639
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: the movie doesn't quite do that, but it does not

640
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: seem to have very much empathy for the mental health

641
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 3: issues that Ingrid is dealing with.

642
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like, in

643
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: the effort to get their message across about social media.

644
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 2: The way that mental health is treated is undercooked in

645
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: service of that point, which sucks because I think it's

646
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: a really hard needle to thread and one that I

647
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: would rather I mean this honestly, this movie just maybe

648
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: want to see movies about social media addiction, not by men,

649
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: and not to say that men can't be addicted to

650
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: social media. They absolutely can and are. But this was

651
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: like talking about a very particular gendered form of plucking

652
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: the show again, sixteenth minute on cool Zone Media. I

653
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 2: was just talking with friend of the cast, Bridget Todd

654
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 2: this morning, yes, of course, who hosts There Are No

655
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet and talks about these topics a lot,

656
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: and you know, she was speaking to the point that

657
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: I think is done more thoughtfully in this movie, which

658
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 2: is that social media is designed to make women feel

659
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 2: like shit, and the content that the algorithm favors tends

660
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 2: to be very aspirational to make women feel like shit

661
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: about their body, about their class, about their lifestyle, about

662
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,479
Speaker 2: any number of things. And I do like that. Again,

663
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 2: the easy choice here would have been to make Taylor

664
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: the influencer be a super villain who is lying in

665
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: a less complicated way than she's actually lying. But it doesn't,

666
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: and I do appreciate that, you know, like Taylor is

667
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: in sort of this trap of maybe not of her

668
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: own making, but sort of of her own making, where

669
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: it's become her job to perform feeling great, and she

670
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: doesn't like she has any number of problems like normal

671
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 2: people would, but can't say that. I am interested in,

672
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: like the monetizing yourself and your personality, and I think

673
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: that that is just like always a more slippery slope

674
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: if you're marginalized in any way, especially like before there

675
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: were any conversations around it, like so easy to get

676
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,959
Speaker 2: trapped in like a rigid self, and if you act

677
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: outside of this self, you're acting off brand, and that's bad.

678
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: And like, I think this movie does do some stuff

679
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that, you know, the influencers are also in

680
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 2: a different kind of mental prison, right, And it doesn't

681
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: mean that the actions of influencers are universally forgivable, because

682
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: you know, Taylor is still not great, right, But I

683
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: like that she is not great in a way that

684
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: still feels very human. And I just feel like her

685
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 2: character was generally better thought through than Ingrid's at times,

686
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 2: which is frustrating because I think Ingrid is We're given

687
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: the ingredients to have a lot of interesting discussions in

688
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 2: this movie around grief, around mental health, and around how

689
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: you are with a tiny computer all the time that

690
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: says it's helping you with these exact things, and almost

691
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: always isn't like, but it's an interesting movie to go

692
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: back to because you're like, they didn't quite get it.

693
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: But I think it's aging better than I expected.

694
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 3: Right, I mean again, the thing that it's always gonna

695
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: boil down to for me is that the Ingrid character,

696
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: it's not necessarily unsympathetic or unempathetic toward her, especially when

697
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: you learn the directors and the writers' intentions with the character.

698
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 3: So I will share a quote from what I think

699
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: might be a press release. I don't really know what

700
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: this was, but it's possibly a press release from Mongrel Media,

701
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 3: which is the film distribution company that I believe distributed

702
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 3: Ingrid Goes West. And in this document is a an

703
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 3: interview with Matt Spicer, who directed and co wrote the movie,

704
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 3: and he was asked how did this project originate and

705
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 3: he says, quote, my co writer, David Branson Smith and

706
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 3: I have been friends for many years and we're looking

707
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: for something to work on together. We were having lunch

708
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 3: and talking about our mutual obsession with Instagram and how

709
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 3: it brings out the worst in us, making us feel

710
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 3: bad about ourselves while also being wildly entertaining and addictive.

711
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 3: He asked me if I thought there was a movie there,

712
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 3: which I did. The obvious choice was to make single

713
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 3: white female for the social media generation, with Taylor as

714
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: the helpless victim in Ingrid as the obsessive, cold blooded stalker.

715
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 3: But the more we talked about it, I actually found

716
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 3: myself relating more to the Ingrid character. The quote goes

717
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: on and there's a bunch of other questions, and he

718
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 3: talks quite a bit about developing each character and the

719
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 3: thought that went into it. And so they are approaching Ingrid,

720
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 3: the writers and director, with a sense of empathy, like

721
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: they do kind of understand what it is to be

722
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 3: addicted to social media and how that does affect your

723
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 3: mental health. And so they're not necessarily not approaching the

724
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 3: character with any intentional malice or anything like that. But

725
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: the fact remains that Ingrid, though it is unidentified, is

726
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 3: dealing with a mental health crisis, and I mean not identified,

727
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 3: like by specific name she's never.

728
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 2: Right, which which I'm not mad about, right, but yeah,

729
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: something that Foster's compulsive behaviors.

730
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 3: Right, And on top of that, she's dealing with grief

731
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 3: over the loss of her mother, and the movie, I

732
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: think is pretty much constantly assuming that you will or

733
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 3: encouraging that the audience will be cringing at her behavior

734
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 3: and laughing at her. And so for that to be

735
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: the case, and people might disagree with me, but I

736
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 3: feel like the movie is like constantly like, oh God, no, Ingrid,

737
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 3: don't do that, not again. Oh you're so cringey. Oh,

738
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 3: or she's doing something that you're laughing at or that's

739
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 3: supposed to be funny. And for that to be true

740
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 3: of a character who is again dealing with a mental

741
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 3: health crisis. That's the thing that rubs me the wrong

742
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 3: way about this movie.

743
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me, And that was like, so

744
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: what I didn't like about it the first time, And

745
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,479
Speaker 2: I think that that makes a lot of sense. And yeah,

746
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 2: I'm unclear on exactly what they want us to feel

747
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: about her at certain points because I feel like, and

748
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 2: maybe this is just grounded in Aubrey Plaza's performance, but

749
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 2: like I want to be on her side, like I

750
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: want her to be okay, and it's like scary and

751
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: sad and frustrating to watch her not get the help

752
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 2: that she needs. Yeah again, it just yeah, I felt

753
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: undercooked and under explored because we see that she has

754
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: spent some time in inpatient treatment, but that doesn't seem

755
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: to have been especially helpful for her, which can be

756
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: very true, but like again, it's just like that's there

757
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 2: and she goes to I mean, yeah, if you're having

758
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: a mental health crisis, definitely don't move to Los Angeles.

759
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: It's like the worst possible place you could be. Take

760
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: it from me, But it's hard because I feel like

761
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: I can't exactly put it into words. I think that

762
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: that read is so there of like it's funny that

763
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 2: this is happening, but I also felt like going back

764
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: in this time, I just felt terribly for her. Yeah,

765
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: and part of why it's such an anxiety inducing movie.

766
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: And maybe it's just like where I am now versus

767
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 2: where I was then, but like watching her be around

768
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: people who don't necessarily have bad intentions towards her, but

769
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 2: they just are not equipped to be able to give

770
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: her what she needs. And yeah, I think the mental

771
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: health point that really didn't sit well with me. Again,

772
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: I understand from the message cautionary message about social media

773
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: point why the character makes a suicide attempt, but I

774
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: really don't. That's just a personal preference thing. Maybe I

775
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: just don't like that. I especially don't like when that's

776
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 2: put on screen. That was what gave me pause. I

777
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: feel like you can end the movie the same way,

778
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 2: maybe not, you know, with that same really stomach churning impact.

779
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 2: But I feel like you could end the movie with

780
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: the same like feeling without having done that. But that's

781
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: kind of a personal preference. But I just don't like

782
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 2: when attempts are put on screen. I feel like it's

783
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: usually unnecessary, especially because it's an Oprey Plaza movie. A

784
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: lot of young people are gonna see it, and I

785
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: just don't like it. I wanted to go back to

786
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 2: original criticism of this movie, yeah, because I just wanted

787
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 2: your take. I really I don't know what to make

788
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: of it now, especially because we were already doing movie

789
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: criticism in twenty seventeen when this movie came out. But

790
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 2: I feel like it was very different.

791
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 3: We were hashtag babies back.

792
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: Then, tag podcasting toddlers, but it was an interesting, like,

793
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 2: look at what the criticism of this time was like.

794
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: So this is from a Miss magazine piece from when

795
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: the movie came out in twenty seventeen. While the film

796
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 2: has been heralded as a timely warning against social media,

797
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: this so called warning is only possible because of the

798
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 2: filmmaker's representation of Ingrid as unstable, obsessive, and quote unquote

799
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: hysterical depictions, which have historically all been used to devalue

800
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: and control women. Taking a cue from Single White Female,

801
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: the film relies on the trope that women's friendships are

802
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: toxic and unstable, Taking another from films like Swim Fan

803
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: and Black Swan, it predicates its entire plot on the

804
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: tired notion that women are jealous, irrational, and obsessive by nature.

805
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: The film's investment in these depictions paints mental illness into

806
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: an inherently female danger. Indeed, it seems that Ingrid is

807
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: a stark and visual warning about the mentally ill woman

808
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: we should make sure to never become. As Sarah Kahn

809
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: writes in a piece that no longer exists on the Internet,

810
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 2: the film's unresolved ending is particularly harmful. In that quote,

811
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: it only reinforces the incorrect and ignorant narrative that people

812
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 2: only talk openly about mental illness to seek attention unquote.

813
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: I think this is interesting. I don't totally agree with

814
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: it now, honestly, but I do I think agree with

815
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: that last part a little bit. Again. I think that,

816
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 2: like from the year twenty twenty four, I cannot comfortably

817
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: say that everyone on the internet discussed mental health is

818
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 2: doing so in great faith. I feel like that is

819
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: not necessarily true. However, the majority are, I think, and

820
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 2: I feel like if this movie wants to make this point,

821
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 2: we should maybe see other examples of how people are

822
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 2: good faith engaging.

823
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

824
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: See, But now saying that, I'm like, do you feel

825
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: that Ingrid made this attempt for attention? I sort of

826
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 2: didn't read it that way. I didn't well, I don't know.

827
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 2: I mean, like, maybe that's me being naive and like

828
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: I don't see the game of like seven thousand d

829
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: chests she was playing. But I guess I read that

830
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: attempt as sincere, so that kind of negates that point

831
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: for me. I don't know. I do think that it

832
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 2: would have been helpful to clarify whatever they were trying

833
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: to say around mental health to have another character navigating,

834
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: if not the same issue, because you know, everyone has

835
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: their own mental health journey to go on, right, but

836
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 2: navigating those same issues in a different way from Ingrid.

837
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 3: Right, I do think it was not like an attention

838
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 3: seeking attempt.

839
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: I didn't think so either.

840
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do think that she was legitimately attempting suicide.

841
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 3: And what she says during that video seems I mean,

842
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 3: it's devastating because she's acknowledging how her life has been

843
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 3: a lie and how she feels so lonely and she

844
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 3: feels like a loser and pathetic and all of these things.

845
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: She misses her mom and like, see now, I'm like,

846
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: but now this movie review doesn't believe women. I'm confused.

847
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 2: I'm confused. Yeah, I didn't read that. I mean, and

848
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: listeners like, obviously open season on if you did read

849
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: it that way. But yeah, it felt like if that

850
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 2: was the intended read of the movie, then yeah, Ingrid

851
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: is being shown as essentially a super villain. But I

852
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 2: guess I just didn't. Yeah, I didn't read it that way.

853
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 3: My read is that she was intending to die by suicide,

854
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 3: that her words in the suicide note video were earnest,

855
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 3: but The point is that she will fall back into

856
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 3: the same cycle because once she survives this attempt and

857
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:38,839
Speaker 3: learns that she has a following now that people are

858
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 3: reaching out to her, and chances are she'll never meet

859
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 3: any of these people and not actually form any lasting

860
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 3: or meaningful connections with any of them. But she's addicted

861
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 3: to this internet validation, and it seems as though, because

862
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 3: of like the grin on her face when she's seeing

863
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 3: all of these expressions of love and support from people

864
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: commenting on her Instagram, that she again will have learned

865
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: nothing and will fall back into the same cycle what

866
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 3: I wish would have happened. Maybe I'm talking through this

867
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 3: in real time, but like we see her being hospitalized

868
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 3: in the beginning of the movie, but it's in like montage, right,

869
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: and we don't get a whole lot of sense of

870
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 3: what is going on, and like is the system failing her?

871
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 3: Like is the healthcare system the thing that's right?

872
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 2: And it kind of seems I guess again, that was

873
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: like the conclusion that I jumped to, but we're not

874
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: given that explicit reason.

875
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 3: Right, because she makes a comment of I know something

876
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 3: is wrong with me, but I don't know how to

877
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 3: fix it, I don't know how to change, and I'm curious,

878
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 3: like what was the care like that she did receive

879
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 3: in this hospital?

880
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 2: Right, right, because it's like it's totally conceivable to get

881
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: bad mental health treatment, absolute surely, but it's yeah, I

882
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 2: agree like that it's important I think to yeah, demonstrate

883
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 2: like why it didn't quite work. Otherwise I feel like

884
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: it is a viable read for it to be like,

885
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 2: you know, in patient treatment doesn't work, which is obviously

886
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 2: not true. Right Yeah. Again, it's just like, because it's

887
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 2: like this satirey feel, it sometimes feels like there's too

888
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 2: broad of a brush with certain issues. But anyways, I

889
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 2: just wanted to share that because I thought it was interesting.

890
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, I feel like I would have really wholeheartedly

891
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: agreed with that criticism at the time, and you know,

892
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: time keeps moving, and it's just interesting because I feel like, yeah,

893
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 2: I was able to have a little bit more of

894
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 2: a generous read of this movie than I did six

895
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: or seven years ago. I do want to say that

896
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: Elizabeth said joined Instagram right after this movie came out.

897
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: There is a funny, kind of iconic her kind of

898
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: fucked up but kind of iconic. This is from the Cut.

899
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, Elizabeth Olsen recently joined Instagram for the

900
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: first time. She learned the ropes while playing an Instagram

901
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 2: influencer in her upcoming film Ingrid Goes West, But in

902
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: an interview with The La Times, she reveals that her

903
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: newfound social media savvy isn't simply because she needed to

904
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 2: share photos of her breakfast with the world. She's just

905
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: in it for the cash, so she said, it's so

906
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 2: funny that people, this is Elizabeth Olsen speaking, It's so

907
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 2: funny that people like to pretend that there may be

908
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: or maybe not getting paid to post something financially, it's

909
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: a brilliant opportunity. Like I'd really love to be a

910
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 2: brand ambassador. I'd love to do a campaign. I think

911
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: sometimes working with brands or different cosmetic companies that can

912
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: help people recognize your face and then they go see

913
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,919
Speaker 2: your movie. I was only hurting my opportunities by not participating, which,

914
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: honestly I think that that is Like, even if you

915
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: don't agree with it, I appreciate that she's just being

916
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 2: honest about it because I feel like that's the fault

917
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: that the movie is trying to criticize, is that influencers

918
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: and this happened. I mean, it's worse now, even though

919
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: there are disclosure laws in place that there didn't used

920
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,959
Speaker 2: to be about and saying when you're doing spawn versus

921
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: when you're not. There are some influencers that like their

922
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: whole account is spawn. You're like, how do we even

923
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 2: get interested in you in the first place? Like you're

924
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: just selling shit. It's weird.

925
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never quite understood that, but I do find

926
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 3: it interesting that the way Taylor describes herself and her job,

927
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 3: because ingrid very blazonly, is like, what do you guys

928
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 3: do for money? You know, on the first night that

929
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: she meets them. But people should be more transparent, I

930
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 3: think about their income and how they get it. But anyway, yeah,

931
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 3: she's like, what do you do for money? And Taylor's like, oh,

932
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 3: I'm a photographer right right, And then we find out

933
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 3: that she's like, well, you know, it's not as glamorous,

934
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 3: is it seems? Sometimes brands pay me to like post

935
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 3: photos on the thing. And so she's basically like she's

936
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 3: describing being an influencer in very creative ways because we

937
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 3: don't ever see her with a camera any other camera

938
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 3: besides her iPhone camera, she's not doing the type of

939
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 3: photography that.

940
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels very like prior. I think that those

941
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: disclosure laws they might have existed by the time this

942
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 2: movie came out, but maybe not when it was written.

943
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 2: I forget exactly when, but yeah, like it almost feels

944
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 2: like I honestly used to feel this way when I

945
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,479
Speaker 2: would tell people that I hosted a podcast for a living,

946
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: I actually would not say that, and I was actively like, oh,

947
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 2: this is a career that is still like not quite

948
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 2: a thing, and I'm kind of embarrassed to say I

949
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 2: have a job that I'm not sure is considered to

950
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: be real or you.

951
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: Know, huh.

952
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 2: And it feels like that's kind of what Taylor's doing

953
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: with an influencer, Like she's trying to make it sound

954
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: like a respected job where influencer clearly at the time

955
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: this was written or filmed or I don't know what

956
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: the production timeline was, wasn't considered a job, whereas now,

957
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: like most influencers are pretty straightforward about what it is

958
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: they're doing because it's considered a legitimate job. I mean

959
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,439
Speaker 2: the same as podcasting, Like it's considered a legitimate job now,

960
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: and so people are just like, yeah, this is my job,

961
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: but she's like, oh well, it's not what it seems like.

962
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: And also like, clearly at this time she didn't have

963
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: to disclose anything, which is scary, and that like whether

964
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: the influencers doing this were especially cognizant of this or not,

965
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 2: because I do think that there's like a lot of

966
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 2: naivete around social media usage at this time. They're like, yeah,

967
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 2: selling you a fake, it's advertising, it's lying, it's lying,

968
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 2: it's making stuff up.

969
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 3: And we see her lying about other stuff such as

970
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 3: like she never read the books she's claiming to have read.

971
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 3: She loved that, claims that her husband is a very

972
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 3: the popular artist, and we find out that the only

973
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 3: sale he's ever made is that one two ingrid And

974
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 3: basically we just see every character lying or manipulating or

975
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 3: thinking that the Jewel Schumacher Batman movies are good.

976
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: Okay, what the greatest sin of all? I loved Joel Schumacher.

977
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 2: I was very surprised to hear a Jewel Like, you

978
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 2: just don't expect to hear his full name spoken in

979
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: a movie.

980
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 3: You don't.

981
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I thought this movie did a

982
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 2: better job than I remembered both clearly pointing to the

983
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: fact that the kind of influencing that Taylor is doing

984
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: is lying. But there is like a gradient of like

985
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: it doesn't make her the world's worst person, but it doesn't.

986
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 2: I feel like there was at least some fairness with

987
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: how that was shown, Like she wasn't completely demonized, but

988
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 2: she wasn't made out to be like, oh, I'm just

989
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 2: a girl, I don't know what I'm doing, Like she

990
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 2: does know what she's doing, yeah, and she seems a

991
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 2: little ashamed of it, but not enough to not do

992
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 2: it right.

993
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 3: There is more nuance to I would say pretty much

994
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 3: every character we get to know to some extent, there's

995
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 3: more nuance to them than, again, I would have expected

996
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 3: from filmmakers who are men writing about women. I'm not

997
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 3: saying they did.

998
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 2: An amazing job, but they did something.

999
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 3: There's something, and there's more nuance there because again, I

1000
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,919
Speaker 3: think it would have been very easy and the kind

1001
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 3: of default for men to write female characters and female

1002
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 3: influencers and people who are susceptible to influencers in a

1003
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 3: way more judgy way. But I am curious as to

1004
01:01:55,040 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 3: why these men, and again I'm talking about director Matt

1005
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 3: Spicer and his co writer on the script, David Branson Smith,

1006
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 3: why they chose women as the main characters when they

1007
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 3: could better speak to the experience of men being affected

1008
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 3: by social media because they are men affected by social media,

1009
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 3: as they say in that interview.

1010
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 2: Which is interesting because we like we do get a

1011
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: feel for that. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like,

1012
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to be like people could only write

1013
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: their own experience. Yeah, but I would just be curious

1014
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: to know, and I would also at a note and

1015
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to really find anything on this to

1016
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: like to what extent they spoke to women about their

1017
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 2: experiences on social media in building out these characters, because

1018
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 2: that feels like it would be a very important component

1019
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: of building out this relationship. Because I don't really agree

1020
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 2: with the Miss magazine criticism that sort of indicates that,

1021
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: like Taylor in Ingrid's Dynamic, is indicative that these writers

1022
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 2: think that all women's French are dysfunctional and toxic. Like,

1023
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 2: I think that that's kind of an overstatement. I feel

1024
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: like we understand why this friendship isn't working. It's because

1025
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 2: they're both lying and one to a wild degree. Yeah,

1026
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 2: and that you know one is in mental health crisis

1027
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 2: and the other is not equipped to handle that, and

1028
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: Taylor is like a people pleaser to the extent that

1029
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 2: it's dishonest, and like, I feel like you're given maybe

1030
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: my brain is broken. It didn't feel especially gendered, because

1031
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 2: you do get a taste of like how social media

1032
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 2: affects men, but not as I don't know, Like, I

1033
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: think that the shared quality across the cast is that

1034
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 2: everyone is in fake it till you make it mode,

1035
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: which is I think just how LA characters are very

1036
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: frequently written. But like Dan Pinto is a fake screenwriter,

1037
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 2: and Taylor is a fake photographer, and Wyatt Russell is

1038
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: a fake artist, and you know, Billy Magdison is a

1039
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: fake I don't even know.

1040
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 3: He's like a real con artist, and he's very racist.

1041
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 3: We should point.

1042
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 2: Out, yes, there is a horrific racist joke in this

1043
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 2: that clearly turns you on this character. I don't think

1044
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 2: it was necessary at all to turn us on this character.

1045
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 2: And it also makes it clear that Taylor is okay

1046
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 2: with this totally in a room full of white people,

1047
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 2: She's very okay with laughing at an extremely racist joke.

1048
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 2: And I think that the only person in the room

1049
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 2: who really says something is her.

1050
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 3: Husband, her husband Ezra.

1051
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 2: Yes, so a single point for him there, But he

1052
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: also like I don't know what did you make of him,

1053
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: because I think he definitely sucks. He's a pretentious asshole, yes, right,

1054
01:04:55,160 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 2: And he seems very resentful towards Taylor for the way

1055
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 2: that she's making money.

1056
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 3: For sure, And it's not clear if he is like

1057
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 3: intimidated by her success the way a lot of men

1058
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 3: in relationships with women who are like making more money

1059
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 3: than them is very threatening to those men. It's not

1060
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 3: clear if he's feeling that or if he's just like

1061
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 3: on his high horse about you know, self promotion and

1062
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 3: being super online, because those things are clear, but we

1063
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 3: don't know if there's like an underlying like misogyny thing

1064
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 3: happening or.

1065
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 2: I guess it kind of seems to me like there

1066
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 2: definitely was like, yeah, he's like the kind of person

1067
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 2: that sucks. Even when he's saying the right thing, you

1068
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: just feel like he's saying the right thing for the

1069
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 2: wrong reason, which I guess a lot of people in

1070
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 2: this movie are true, and that is a very common

1071
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 2: internet behavior, right, But like, yeah, he's acting like he's

1072
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 2: too good, like he's trying to have everything both ways

1073
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 2: and resenting no matter what the situation is. He resents

1074
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 2: Taylor as a result, And I don't even like Taylor,

1075
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 2: but I feel like he is an asshole because he's like, oh,

1076
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 2: self promotion is so gross, blah blah blah, But why

1077
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 2: aren't I making money as an artist? Like he just

1078
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 2: wants everything to be handed to him because he is

1079
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 2: a man, and look at my art, and everyone's a

1080
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: poser and a faker except for me. And meanwhile, you

1081
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: know his wife is paying all the bills because she

1082
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 2: is working, but he doesn't consider what she does. I mean,

1083
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 2: this is maybe me getting defense, but like he doesn't

1084
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 2: consider what she does real even though what she's doing

1085
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 2: is funding his lifestyle. So right, he can shut up

1086
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 2: or like not be in this relationship if you're not

1087
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 2: comfortable with that, But you can't just like be angry

1088
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 2: and passively benefit from it all the time.

1089
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 3: True. Also, and I'm not criticizing all like upcycled art

1090
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 3: because because I think some of it is very very cool, but.

1091
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 2: His art is it's right up there with Magic Mike.

1092
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 3: It's bad, Magic BIG's awful. Furniture, Yeah, all that Ezra

1093
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 3: is doing is taking existing paintings that he bought from

1094
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 3: thrift stores and then painting text on them that says

1095
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 3: like hashtag blessed or hashtag squad goals or any of those.

1096
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 2: Which was a thing like I remember that shit, and

1097
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 2: like they were right to make fun of it. It

1098
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 2: was ridiculous. Yeah, but yeah, he's a poser. He's a

1099
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 2: faker for sure, like the worst kind of poser, where

1100
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: his whole personality is predicated on the fact that he's

1101
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 2: definitely not a poster, which is like the worst, the

1102
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 2: worst kind of person.

1103
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 3: The movie is recognizing the irony of him being like,

1104
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 3: I'm a real artist. My art speaks for itself. I

1105
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 3: do art. And then you see his art and it's

1106
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 3: something that someone else made and then he just painted

1107
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 3: some letters on it. It's like, Okay, are you good

1108
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 3: at art? Question mark.

1109
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 2: I do think that, like, at very least, like his character,

1110
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 2: because I did not remember. It's a very very racist

1111
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 2: joke about virtually any Asian person because it is that

1112
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 2: vague and cruel, and I still don't think it was

1113
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 2: necessary because it does happen. I'm glad that his character

1114
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 2: calls it out, said something Yeah, yeah, and I understand.

1115
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 2: I mean, like, I think he's an interesting character to

1116
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 2: have there. It's like I recognize the type of person

1117
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 2: and it sort of contributes to like showing what And

1118
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 2: this is like kind of a mealy mouthed point that

1119
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 2: we've seen made in a lot of things with like

1120
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 2: social media is not real. But that's the point this

1121
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 2: movie is trying to make to some extent, And their

1122
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 2: marriage dynamic I think is like pretty interesting and unique,

1123
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 2: and like, even though I don't love Taylor as a

1124
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 2: character and her weird Joshua Tree gentrification hotel sounds awful,

1125
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 2: her husband is also sexist, so there's that. Her brother,

1126
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,600
Speaker 2: I feel like, is character that didn't really work for me.

1127
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 2: He felt too cartoonish, I don't know. And also they

1128
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:24,799
Speaker 2: were like, well he was struggling with or not dealing

1129
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: with his addiction problems, which is referenced several times, but

1130
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 2: really only seems to be there to add another way

1131
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 2: in which Taylor is being dishonest about her life or

1132
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 2: in denial about her life. But it's just like he

1133
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 2: sort of became like a plot device at some point

1134
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 2: where he's like he blackmails Ingrid and he gets kidd

1135
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 2: like all the high jinxy stuff is sort of with

1136
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 2: his character, and he's just my least favorite character. I

1137
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 2: don't like him. That's my feminist criticism. I don't like him.

1138
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 3: Wow hashtag genius once again, Yeah, thank you. He is

1139
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:07,879
Speaker 3: quite cartoony, but I also feel like people like him exist,

1140
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 3: so for sure, I DeKay, but I just don't like him.

1141
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 3: I think the last thing I have to say about

1142
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 3: this movie, and it kind of goes back to the

1143
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 3: article you were referencing earlier about all of these examples

1144
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,560
Speaker 3: of movies that center female friendship. But it's like a

1145
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 3: toxic stockery, obsessive kind of thing. And it's not that

1146
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 3: I think that all friendships between or among women in

1147
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 3: movies are portrayed that way, because obviously there are many

1148
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 3: examples that aren't. But the article does cite several movies

1149
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 3: that do show that dynamic, such as Swim Fan. I

1150
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 3: saw that movie, but I can't remember much about it.

1151
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 3: I have not seen it Swim Fan, and then Single

1152
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 3: White Female, which we covered many many years ago the show.

1153
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:06,600
Speaker 3: But this movie wouldn't feel like, Wow, yet another installment

1154
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 3: in this type of friendship dynamic between women. If there

1155
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 3: were just more movies about friendship among women, because yeah,

1156
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 3: the director was citing other movies that inspired him. One

1157
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,440
Speaker 3: of them was Single White Female. But he also references

1158
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 3: The Talented Mister Ripley and The King of Comedy, which, Jamie,

1159
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 3: have you seen that movie?

1160
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 2: I have not seen it.

1161
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 3: Now I've seen it a couple times. It's another very

1162
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:41,560
Speaker 3: very stressful movie. Robert de Niro plays an aspiring comedian

1163
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 3: who's trying to get on like a late night talk show,

1164
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 3: like a Jimmy Carson kind of thing. Jimmy Carson, is

1165
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 3: that just Johnny Johnny Carson.

1166
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 2: I was like that, Well, we're so young, We're so young.

1167
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,759
Speaker 2: Oh is this the movie that, like Todd Phillips Joker

1168
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 2: is kind of ripping off right?

1169
01:11:58,400 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 1: Yes?

1170
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, So he's a sessed with this talk show

1171
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 3: host and he's trying to get like a set to

1172
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 3: do stand up on a late night show and things

1173
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 3: go horribly wrong. So there's like a few movies referenced,

1174
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 3: like King of Comedy and Talented Mister Ripley that the

1175
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 3: filmmakers of Ingrid Goes West were pulling from that, you know,

1176
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 3: feature men. But because every other fucking movie in the

1177
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 3: world is about men. It doesn't feel like, oh, every

1178
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 3: movie that comes out is about men being obsessed and

1179
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 3: scary and violent.

1180
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 2: Right, I agree with you. I mean, maybe it's being older.

1181
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just the way that the Internet has continued

1182
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 2: to evolve where I feel like I did have the

1183
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 2: information I needed. Would I have liked to see Taylor

1184
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 2: have an actual friend, sure, sure, like and see what

1185
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 2: does a functional friendship work like for her? But again,

1186
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 2: like across gender, it doesn't seem like really anyone in

1187
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 2: this movie is capable, except maybe Dan Pinto. I will say, like,

1188
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 2: you know, weird guy, and I don't really understand why

1189
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: he's putting up with the consequences of being with Ingrid

1190
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 2: to the extent that he is, but I do appreciate that,

1191
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 2: like he wants to know her, sure, and that is

1192
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 2: nice to see. And I feel like that's another way

1193
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 2: in which this movie does show that it is not

1194
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 2: openly contemptuous of Ingrid. And I understand why she is

1195
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 2: definitely starting by manipulating him so she doesn't get evicted,

1196
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 2: but I get why she ends up wanting to be

1197
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 2: with him more, even though it's like this complicated, like

1198
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 2: he is a means to an end to her as

1199
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,640
Speaker 2: far as access to a car, access to housing, and

1200
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 2: access to enabling this lie. But also she needs someone

1201
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 2: to talk to about grief desperately, and he can relate

1202
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 2: with her about that. And I thought that that scene

1203
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 2: was I kind of wish that there was a little

1204
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 2: more done with that relationship to develop it, because normally

1205
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't need the boyfriend's side plot. I

1206
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 2: think it is kind of interesting here, but yeah, it

1207
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 2: kind of tapers off, and then the way at the end,

1208
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 2: I feel bad for Dan Pinto. I'm like, get out

1209
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 2: of there. Dant like, no, we need to get Ingrid

1210
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: into good stable care so that she can recover, and

1211
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,600
Speaker 2: we need Dan Pinto to like, I don't know, like

1212
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 2: give up the ghosts and move on. Well.

1213
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing is every character in this movie is

1214
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 3: characterized as someone who is like not very capable of

1215
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 3: healthy human relationships, because Dan Pinto's thing is he's a

1216
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 3: pushover who like lets people walk all over him, and

1217
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 3: he's manipulated by Ingrid constantly.

1218
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 2: And there's plenty of Dan Pinto's in the world, I know.

1219
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 3: And then that scene where Ingrid and Dan Pinto are

1220
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 3: talking about losing their parents. I almost read that as

1221
01:14:54,560 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 3: she seized an opportunity to yeah, because she's again constantly

1222
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 3: trying to endear people to her. Yeah, and he's opening

1223
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 3: up and talking about this grief and you know, he

1224
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 3: was orphaned as a child and that's why he's so

1225
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 3: attached to Batman and you know, really laying it all

1226
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 3: out there, and rather than being like she says a

1227
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 3: couple things about losing her mom to him, but to me,

1228
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 3: it was she sees this as an opportunity to basically

1229
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 3: further manipulate him into dating her so that she can

1230
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,799
Speaker 3: continue using him, because like, she doesn't really continue the conversation,

1231
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 3: she just kind of surprise kisses him. Really she does,

1232
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 3: and then they have Batman catwoman sex.

1233
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 2: So yes, I agree with you. Maybe i'm five D

1234
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 2: chessing because I'm like, but I also feel like it

1235
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like she is at a stage in her

1236
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 2: grieving where she It made me sad to see this

1237
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 2: opportunity for her to genuinely connect with some one, but

1238
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 2: she's so fixated on this other thing that is not

1239
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 2: real that she's just fumbling it because she's not able

1240
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 2: to you know, and not that she has to connect

1241
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 2: with this specific person, but like it's frustrating and frustrating

1242
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 2: in a way that didn't feel uncharitable to her. But

1243
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 2: I've been in those I think everyone's been in those

1244
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 2: positions where you're so fixated on this other thing that

1245
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 2: you think is going to make you happy that something

1246
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:35,879
Speaker 2: or someone who could actually provide a genuine connection passes

1247
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 2: you by because you just like are not in a

1248
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 2: place where you can see it. And especially because she's

1249
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 2: an act of mental health crisis. I feel awful for

1250
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 2: Dan Pinto, who seems to genuinely want a relationship with her,

1251
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 2: even though that seems like it's connected to a lot

1252
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: of his issues. Yeah, but that she has this opportunity

1253
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 2: right in front of her to genuinely connect with someone

1254
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 2: and can't see it for what it is, and that

1255
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 2: is really sad to me. I feel bad for her.

1256
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 2: This movie kind of fumbles other mental illnesses in the

1257
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 2: pursuit of doing this, but like very clearly demonstrates that

1258
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: social media is an addiction, and that it is an

1259
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:21,920
Speaker 2: addiction that people don't understand, that is exacerbated by any

1260
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 2: other number of factors, and which for her seems like

1261
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 2: some sort of obsessive tendency and grief and depression, and

1262
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 2: like I probably talked about this on the show before,

1263
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 2: but when I was probably around this time, it was

1264
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 2: maybe a little sooner, like twenty sixteen, but I had

1265
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: and have OCD and it was getting so bad with

1266
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 2: specific relation to social media that I was luckily able

1267
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 2: to find a therapist who is willing to really scale

1268
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 2: his prices so that I could go into exposure therapy

1269
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 2: for social media, which the time I didn't really talk

1270
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,240
Speaker 2: about because it is no one's business, and also I

1271
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 2: was embarrassed by it because it didn't sound like a

1272
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 2: thing that existed. But literally what the sessions were were

1273
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 2: I would go on Twitter with my therapist and we

1274
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 2: would scroll through and we would go through, like, well,

1275
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 2: what does this bring up for you? What does this

1276
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: bring up for you? And I was in such a

1277
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 2: bad place OCD wise that everything was an active threat

1278
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:33,599
Speaker 2: and I was so spun into anxiety by looking at

1279
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 2: these things and also could not, for the life of

1280
01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 2: me stop and it took I mean, we did this

1281
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 2: for a couple of months until I couldn't afford it anymore.

1282
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 2: We did it, and it really did help, and it

1283
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 2: did I mean, I don't think anyone has a healthy

1284
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 2: relationship to social media, but it certainly did turn a

1285
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 2: corner for me, and then maybe some backsliding during the

1286
01:18:56,160 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 2: pandemic who among us. I mean, I'm like, maybe I

1287
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 2: should talk about this on the other show, but like

1288
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 2: I had such a bad relationship with social media that

1289
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 2: it was like actively, you know, not to the extent

1290
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 2: that Ingrid. Ingrid is in a pretty extreme circumstance, but like,

1291
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 2: I'm glad to know that both Aubrey Plaza and the

1292
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 2: writer directors like empathize with her because I think everyone

1293
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,760
Speaker 2: has had some experience like this, and then mine like

1294
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 2: going back, I'm like, maybe I didn't like it the

1295
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 2: first time I saw it because I didn't like the

1296
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 2: parts of myself that I saw in her, because it's

1297
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 2: really uncomfortable, and also just to see it in a

1298
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 2: time where you know, now, I still don't think that

1299
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 2: there's really a lot of practical treatment. And I feel like,

1300
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 2: you know, if you're having a hard time with your

1301
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,639
Speaker 2: relationship with social media, most people will be like shut up,

1302
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 2: touch grass and like very unhelpful. Ugh, And I just

1303
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 2: I can't get over like people are saying touch grass

1304
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 2: to you on the internet, like, shut up, You're just

1305
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 2: as bad and maybe worse. But I guess that's my

1306
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 2: last thing I have to say about this movie. It

1307
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 2: was interesting to revisit it because I think I is

1308
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 2: ashamed and uncomfortable of the parts of me that I

1309
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:08,600
Speaker 2: saw in Ingrid, and also didn't like how hopeless the

1310
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 2: end was, because I saw myself in this character and

1311
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: to see her so clearly about to be sucked into

1312
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 2: the same cycle again is devastating. I will say, for

1313
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 2: anyone who's struggling with this or has in the past,

1314
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:28,400
Speaker 2: there are ways to improve it, a lot of it.

1315
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:30,599
Speaker 2: I mean again, like if I hadn't met I literally

1316
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 2: met this therapist in the hospital. It was like shortly

1317
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 2: before the podcast started. This would have been in June

1318
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,600
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, when all this was happening. But like, you know,

1319
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,760
Speaker 2: if I hadn't met a psychiatrist in the hospital, where

1320
01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 2: I also could not afford in or outpatient treatment, this

1321
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,760
Speaker 2: hospital psychologist let me just sleep in the er overnight

1322
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:55,560
Speaker 2: because I was so worked up, and he really generously

1323
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 2: offered to give me care that I would not have

1324
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 2: had access to otherwise. And it did genuinely change, you know,

1325
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 2: not completely fix. I don't know that it's something that

1326
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 2: can completely be fixed, but improved my relationships. So there

1327
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 2: are ways. Unfortunately they're almost always, especially if you live

1328
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 2: in the US, there's significant barriers, but there's Yeah, there

1329
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:24,719
Speaker 2: are ways. So if you're struggling, babe, you could be okay.

1330
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 2: You co'd be okay, Jamie, thank you for sharing that.

1331
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 2: I love to share.

1332
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:38,719
Speaker 3: It's healthy to share and demonstrates the broken healthcare system

1333
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 3: in this country, because care that is helpful and life

1334
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 3: saving shouldn't be unaffordable. Jamie, is there anything else you

1335
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 3: want to talk about with this movie?

1336
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 2: I don't really think so. I feel bad, but that's

1337
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: what this movie wants me to do. So it's good.

1338
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 3: Right, It's effective in what it's set out to do. Yes,

1339
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:08,639
Speaker 3: it does pass the Bechdel test quite a bit.

1340
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 2: Yes, many times over. Yeah, it's women having complicated feelings

1341
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:18,679
Speaker 2: about how they perceive each other. Yeah, which I am

1342
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 2: always especially when there's even an iota of thought put

1343
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 2: into it. I'm always interested in movies about how women

1344
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 2: view other women or how they're conditioned or whatever, because

1345
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 2: it's like, it's very valid, and I think this movie

1346
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 2: gets across that misogyny is so prominent among men. Wow,

1347
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 2: amazing observation, Jamie hashtag genius, thank you. But just seeing

1348
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:47,679
Speaker 2: how people of marginalized genders have internalized and project at others.

1349
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 2: It's very common and I feel like it is hard

1350
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 2: to write clearly, and this movie is touch and go

1351
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 2: on it. But I think that that is like a

1352
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 2: worthwhile thing to continue exploring for sure.

1353
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, as far as our nipple scale goes zero to

1354
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 3: five nipples rating the movie based on examining it through

1355
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lens. I think this movie is attempting

1356
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:18,640
Speaker 3: to comment on interesting things, things that are pretty complicated

1357
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 3: and that I feel like society and medical science still

1358
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 3: doesn't know that much about. And because the filmmakers did

1359
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:34,559
Speaker 3: not approach this with the intention of wanting to cast

1360
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:39,560
Speaker 3: a lot of judgment on a tendency to be influenced

1361
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 3: by influencers, they, as they describe it, were empathetic toward

1362
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 3: the ingrid character and they related to her and they

1363
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 3: were like, we also feel bad when we look at Instagram.

1364
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 3: And again, there is more nuance to a lot of

1365
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:00,599
Speaker 3: the characters than I guess I've been conditioned to expect

1366
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 3: because so many movies made by men are pretty relentless,

1367
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 3: especially when it comes to characters who are women, and

1368
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:17,040
Speaker 3: casting a lot of judgment on them for things, again,

1369
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 3: like things that men tend to reinforce. I'm always reminded of,

1370
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:27,280
Speaker 3: like the example of when men will be like, oh,

1371
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 3: why are you taking so long to get ready? Like

1372
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 3: they'll like be rate their girlfriend or whatever for taking

1373
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 3: so long to get ready, and it's like, I don't know,

1374
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 3: maybe it's because if a woman doesn't put on makeup

1375
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,720
Speaker 3: and style their hair meticulously and shave off all of

1376
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:46,720
Speaker 3: their body hair and wear certain clothes and all of

1377
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 3: this stuff, you'll think that she's disgusting.

1378
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 2: Go figure.

1379
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I appreciate that the movie isn't casting that

1380
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 3: level of judgment on this, but the way that it's

1381
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:04,560
Speaker 3: representing mental health and someone who's experiencing a mental health crisis,

1382
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 3: I wish it had been handled better, slash differently. And

1383
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 3: I would have liked to see this premise written and

1384
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 3: directed by women because I think it would have been

1385
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:18,880
Speaker 3: handled a lot differently.

1386
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 2: Agree.

1387
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So with that in mind, I don't know, this

1388
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:24,880
Speaker 3: is one of those movies that, like does the nipple

1389
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 3: scale even a plot like it's challenging it's complicated.

1390
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to do the nipple scale with satire.

1391
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 3: Yes, so maybe I'll just do a split down the

1392
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:39,719
Speaker 3: middle because I don't know what else to do. And also,

1393
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 3: even though this is the most important metric of all time,

1394
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 3: it also doesn't matter. So two and a half nipples,

1395
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 3: and I'll give one to roth Coo the Dog, I'll

1396
01:25:53,520 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 3: give one to Dan Pinto's Batman Forever Soundtrack CD, and

1397
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 3: I'll give my half nipple to the lamp that cost

1398
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:11,120
Speaker 3: twelve hundred dollars.

1399
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go three. I'll go three on this one. Yeah,

1400
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 2: this movie is imperfect, but better than I remembered. And

1401
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 2: I feel maybe I'm giving it more credit because I

1402
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 2: feel like I went on a personal journey and like

1403
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 2: was in conversation with past Jamie by watching this movie.

1404
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 2: But I like what it's trying to do. I don't

1405
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 2: think that it's doing it successfully, but I think it's

1406
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 2: doing it better than I've seen so far, which speaks

1407
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:39,320
Speaker 2: to your point is that there is a need for

1408
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 2: a good movie about social media that is driven by

1409
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 2: really anyone but white guys, and I think it works

1410
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,479
Speaker 2: in the thriller format. I mean there's so many different

1411
01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 2: ways to talk about it. But I think that there

1412
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:57,959
Speaker 2: is like an even better social media satire out there TVD.

1413
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 2: But for what we have, I think that this movie

1414
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 2: it's just way better than I remembered it, and it

1415
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 2: made me think in ways I wasn't expecting to. I

1416
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 2: do think that, Yeah, mainly for me, the way that

1417
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:14,280
Speaker 2: mental health is treated differently from sequence to sequence is challenging,

1418
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:18,720
Speaker 2: and I really don't like on screen suicide attempts im

1419
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 2: docking it. For that, I think that that's what I

1420
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 2: have to say.

1421
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:27,719
Speaker 3: Woohoo, Jamie, tell us more about where we can listen

1422
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 3: to and find Well, wait, I didn't get to give

1423
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 3: my nip.

1424
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,719
Speaker 2: Sorry, sorry, Okay, I'm giving one to Aubrey, I'm giving

1425
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:36,880
Speaker 2: one to Elizabeth, and I'm giving one to Osha. Keep

1426
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 2: it simple, nice now tell us yes. So sixteenth Minute.

1427
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:44,520
Speaker 2: The first episode of sixteenth Minute came out on Tuesday,

1428
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:48,559
Speaker 2: May seventh. It is about Antoine Dodson of the bed

1429
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 2: Intruder song Fame.

1430
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 3: Wait was that the Hyder kids hide your wife?

1431
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,639
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm, I remember? And that is sort of how

1432
01:27:55,640 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 2: every episode of sixteenth Minute works, where it's sort of like, oh, right,

1433
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,640
Speaker 2: that person and then we talk about it. And I

1434
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 2: spoke with Antoine Dodson for this episode as well as

1435
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 2: other people, and some episodes are, you know, more intense

1436
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,400
Speaker 2: than others. It sort of depends from story to story.

1437
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 2: Some of it's very silly and some of it is

1438
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 2: a little more in depth. So I think you'll enjoy it.

1439
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,919
Speaker 2: If you like this show and you don't hate my Guts,

1440
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 2: I think that you will enjoy the show. And yes,

1441
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 2: it's also produced by Sophie Lichtmann and I'm very proud

1442
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 2: and excited about it. So please check it out if

1443
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 2: you want to learn more about how the Internet is

1444
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:40,600
Speaker 2: poisoning the worlds yay.

1445
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 3: And then you can follow us on the normal places. Also,

1446
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 3: you can follow me on Instagram what Kaylen Dorante Jamie

1447
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:53,600
Speaker 3: where can people follow you?

1448
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 2: You can follow me at Jamie christ Superstar on Instagram

1449
01:28:57,160 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 2: where I'm constantly not I also okay, last point, last point.

1450
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 2: I feel like this also came out at a time

1451
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 2: where it's like being dishonest about exactly what was going

1452
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 2: on in your life in social media was like bad

1453
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:13,040
Speaker 2: and you're like, what do you want me to do?

1454
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 2: Post to thousands of people that like Taylor is supposed

1455
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:19,840
Speaker 2: to post to thousands of people that she's having difficulty

1456
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:24,480
Speaker 2: in her marriage, like, what is the expectation? Anyways, No, anyways,

1457
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:28,320
Speaker 2: you can see me misrepresenting my mental health state probably

1458
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:31,560
Speaker 2: on my Instagram at jamiechrist Superstar.

1459
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:35,680
Speaker 3: And you can see me not really posting anything on

1460
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:41,720
Speaker 3: my grid, but know that I am watching cat videos

1461
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 3: and crying because of all of the stuff I'm learning

1462
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:50,839
Speaker 3: about the genocides happening across the world.

1463
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 2: Got it?

1464
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:57,720
Speaker 3: Follow us on social media at Bechdelcast, and we've got

1465
01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 3: a Patreon aka Matreon that is at patreon dot com

1466
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 3: slash Bechdel Cast. You get two bonus episodes every month

1467
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 3: on a fun little theme that we cook up. This

1468
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 3: month is my birthday month, and so we are doing

1469
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:20,880
Speaker 3: some of my favorite Pixar movies. And you can also

1470
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:25,120
Speaker 3: grab our merchant teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast,

1471
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 3: and our tour is very soon.

1472
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 2: It's very soon. It's in the UK and Dublin. You

1473
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:36,519
Speaker 2: can get tickets at linktree, which is in the description

1474
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:38,520
Speaker 2: of this episode.

1475
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 3: So with that, hey, let's hashtag log off and touch

1476
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 3: some ground.

1477
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 2: Touch grass off. I go bye bye bye.

1478
01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:56,360
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1479
01:30:56,400 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 3: Caitlin Dorante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichtermany molaboord.

1480
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,919
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals

1481
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 3: by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch is designed by

1482
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:13,080
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For

1483
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 3: more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdelcast