1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: A new pair of young saints are about to be 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: canonized in Rome, just as the LGBT Jubilee arrives The 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: Prayerful Posse. We'll get into all of it on this 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: edition of The Prayerful Passe. Welcome to this very special, 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: live Prayerful Posse. We're in what I call the Scottsdale 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: Posse Saloon. I love this place, and some of our 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: friends here have gathered to be with us, and of 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: course I'm joined by the Prayerful Posse. Father Gerald Murray, 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: a priest of the Archdiocese of New York, canon lawyer 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: and Robert Royal, editor in chief of the Catholic Thing 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: dot Org. Welcome them, please, okay Jans. Before we get 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: to Father James Martin's papal visit, which I'm going to 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: get to in a moment, I've got to talk about 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: that heartbreaking attack in Minneapolis. We saw where that shooter 15 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: shot through a church killed those poor children, Pope Leo 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: said the following this week. He said, our prayers for 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: the victims of the tragic shooting during a school mass 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: in the American state of Minnesota. Go up to the Lord. 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: Let us plead God to stop the pandemic of arms 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: large and small, which infects our world. Father, then Bob, 21 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: your thoughts, I mean, naturally the pope is going to 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: offer prayers for the victims. Your thoughts on that shout 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: out to the pandemic of arms. What does that mean? 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's making an analogy between COVID and 25 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: I were saying that descends upon his society, and then you know, 26 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 2: uproots everything. I think there's a pandemic of mentally ill 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: people not being taken care of in the United States, 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 2: and this man, given his history, I should have had 29 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: some markers against him not to be able to buy weapons. 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: So you know, that's there's more to the story than 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: simple you can buy a weapon. The question is who's 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: buying them, why they're being allowed to? 33 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you want to, Yeah, I mean I think 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: I don't know if he was directly addressing what we 35 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: call gun control, because that obviously is a policy question. 36 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 4: It's not a moral question. 37 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: But to call for gun control in a country like 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: the United States, where the estimate is there's probably five 39 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 3: hundred million guns and all sorts of ways for people 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 3: to acquire them. In I know in Arizona, you probably 41 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: don't need any instruction about that. It raises the question 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 3: of what do you do about these things? And there 43 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: are two things you can do. You can decide that 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: you're going to live in a society without guns, but 45 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 3: you can also live in a society that tries to 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: protect people. I've actually said to my own pastor that 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: after we had a little incident one time at mass, 48 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 3: that we have a lot of ex military retired policemen 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: in the Washington, DC area, and unfortunately, I think at 50 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: least for churches, that's something that now is going to 51 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: have to be part of everyone's active sense of what 52 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 3: safety is going to be like, even in church. 53 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 4: But look, it's not bad to say. 54 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: We don't want a tidal wave of weapons being used 55 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: against one another. But I think we also want to 56 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 3: have a certain a certain prudence about how we think 57 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: about issues in an event like this particular. 58 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: Well, and talking about prudence, a week after this transhooter 59 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: shot these children, the Pope meets with Father James Martin, 60 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: and later this week there is a jubilee and LGBT jubilee, 61 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: but he met with Father Martin and this is for 62 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: a half hour. It was announced in the official Vatican Bulletin. 63 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: Here's what Martin said after the meeting. He said, I 64 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: was honored and grateful to meet with the Holy Father 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: this morning in an audience in the Apostolic Palace and 66 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: heard the same message I heard from Pope Francis on 67 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: LGBT people, which is one of openness and welcome, Totos, 68 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: totos todos. I found the Pope serene, joyful and encouraging. Father. 69 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: As I mentioned. This was officially in the Bulletino of 70 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: the Vatican the official Daily Press release. Photos were released 71 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: and James Martin says that the Pope told him to 72 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: continue his work as advocacy for transgender people. 73 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: Your thoughts on this, well, this reveals part of the 74 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: problem with Father Martin's approach. By using the abbreviations, he's 75 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: affirming that God created bisexual people, transsexual people, and the 76 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: other whatever the other letters stand for. In other words, 77 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: he's creating categories of humanity given God given characteristics that 78 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: they're supposed to fulfill. The Caature doesn't believe there's any 79 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: such thing as a transgender transsexual person. You can't go 80 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: from being a male to a female. Pope Leo did 81 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: not endorse that neither did Pope Francis, by the way 82 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: he criticized transgender and even though sometimes he made comments 83 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: that were a little bit strange. But as regards this meeting, 84 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: Pope Leo, by granting the audience and then not commenting 85 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: afterwards about about Father Martin's remarks, leaves the impression that 86 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: with Father Martin says, Pope Leo has no objection. 87 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: To bob Let's talk about that. I mean, when I 88 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: first read these comments, I thought Martin's playing a very 89 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: savvy political game here, because he's getting in front of 90 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,119 Speaker 1: the narrative and kind of boxing Pope Leo in trying 91 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: to get him to speak without speaking. But just to 92 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: give you an idea. And look, I heard many people 93 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: this week say don't rush to conclusions. I had a 94 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: bishop tell me, don't rush to conclusions. The Vatican will 95 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: correct the record. Well, the Pope met with the Israeli 96 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: President Isa Hertzog this week. He claimed that the Pope 97 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: had invited him to a papal audience. Well, it turns 98 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: out within moments the Vatican Press released this statement that 99 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: the Holy See's practice is to accede to request for 100 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: an audience with the Pope, made from governments and heads 101 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: of state. It is not the practice to extend invitations 102 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: to them, so they can respond pretty quickly. My question is, 103 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: why hasn't the Holy See said anything about the James Martin. 104 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 4: This might take us into some dark places. 105 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: Well you have another thing. 106 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, there have been some efforts to say that 107 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: this isn't quite a full throated endorsement of Father James 108 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 3: Martin by Pope Leo. For example, one of the things 109 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: that was very odd about when Father Martin came out 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 3: was he said that, oh, the Pope also has a 111 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: lot of things on his plate. He's got Gaza, he's 112 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: got Ukraine, he's got myanamar and so he's not going 113 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 3: to be able to meet with the LGBT group on Saturday. 114 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 4: I think it is on the sixth week. Well, you know, 115 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 4: a pope is a pope. 116 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: He can do what he wants, and if he really 117 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: thought that it was important to meet. 118 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 4: With his group, think could make a few minutes to 119 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 4: do this. 120 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 3: So to me, there's a little bit more distance in 121 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 3: there than Father Martin was willing to admit. But that said, 122 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 3: I agree entirely. It would be very easy to set 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: a lot of our minds at ease. If somebody would 124 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: just come out and say, yeah, we meet with everyone 125 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 3: as Catholics, we welcome everyone into the church. And that's 126 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: what we mean by toto's totos totos. But it's under 127 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: the aegis of what the Catholic Church teaches, because what 128 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 3: the Catholic Church teaches, it believes it is received from 129 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 3: Jesus and from God himself. So if that were the 130 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 3: framing of Father Martin being encouraged to so called outreach 131 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: and listen to kays, I guess we could actually live 132 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: with that. 133 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 4: But we didn't get that. 134 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: You're que well again, the silence tells its own tale. 135 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: Go ahead. 136 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: By the way, if the president of Israel asked for 137 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: an invitation and was extended invitation, then he has been invited. 138 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: He didn't just show up and force his way in 139 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: this kind of you know, dancing around obviously has some 140 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: purpose to kind of separate the Pope from these Israeli 141 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: president as if he's not the object of you know, 142 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: he is an object of an invitation. I'm unsatisfied by that. 143 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: Excellent make I mean, there are some saying, look, this 144 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: is a confirmation of where Pope Francis was headed. You 145 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: saw all the headlines. I mean, James Martin is brilliant 146 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: at kind of getting the press. He went to the AP, 147 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: he walked out to Reuter's. If you look at the 148 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: photo in the AP story beneath it, it says AP photographer. 149 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: So this is all coordinated. This didn't just happen, And 150 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: of course then that goes to every paper in the 151 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: country and news outlet. But the narrative is Pope Francis's 152 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: legacy continues, and you know, we saw the blessing of 153 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: gay couples and more on the horizon. That is what 154 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: Martin said. He wants to get the church in a 155 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: position of advocacy. And I just wondered the week of 156 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: this slaying, it's in Minneapolis. It's an odd note to strike. 157 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 4: Yep. 158 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, the advocacy that he was talking about was about 159 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 3: places where homosexuality will get you the death penalty, and 160 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: that's sort of the first level of what he's had. 161 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,479 Speaker 4: But it's clear that what Father Martin. 162 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: Has been doing, he's got these great phrases, he knows 163 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: how to how to talk to the media, and the 164 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 3: media of course want to hear what he has to say. 165 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 3: He's been saying for a long time that he never 166 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: advocates anything against the teachings of the Church, which I'm 167 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: going to just say openly is a lie, not true, 168 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: because he's the phrase that he's used over and over again. 169 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: You go to the Catechism, the Catechism says that same 170 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 3: sex attraction is intrinsically disordered. 171 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: No, no, no sex acts X the attraction the acts. 172 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, yeah, we could talk about that a 173 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: little bit later. But Father Martin has come along and said, no, no, no, 174 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 3: this is it's hurtful. It's hurtful that the Catechism has 175 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: this phrase. What was really the case is that people 176 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: of various permutations of their sexuality are differently ordered. 177 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 4: Are they differently ordered than what? 178 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 3: They're differently ordered than what God ordered us to be? 179 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 3: Male and female. One of the interesting dramas I think 180 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 3: is going to play out is we know that Leo 181 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 3: said several years ago that the Church has to stop 182 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 3: talking about genders that don't exist, and what does that mean? 183 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 3: Male and femalely creative? After that, it's all. 184 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, fantasy. 185 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: Father Martin has said this, and he's talking about here 186 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: the church teaching on sexuality, gender variations. Quote for teaching 187 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: to be truly authoritative, it must be accepted by the 188 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: people of God, by the faithful. The teaching that LGBT 189 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: people must be celibate their entire lives has not been received. 190 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: End quote. Now look your reaction to that. Let's start. 191 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: Okay, that's false. The teaching of a council is the 192 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: truth when it's promulgated by the council and confirmed by 193 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: the Pope. The truth does not depend on popular acceptance. 194 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 2: This is a Protestant principle that he is enunciating because 195 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: in Protestant I have a judgment is at the basis 196 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: of their interpretation of scripture. Each person is enlightened by 197 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit to determine the meaning of the scriptures. 198 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: That's why they're not that upset while there are all 199 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: these different groups with diverging opinions, because their fundamental principle 200 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: in the Catholic Church, the teaching authority receives revelation, interprets it, 201 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 2: and presents it in dogmatic formulations so that people can 202 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: easily know and believe what they have to believe in 203 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: order to be in union with God. So no, this 204 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: is the principle of Father Martin is enunciating is unless 205 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: you are happy with what you're hearing, it's not true. Well, 206 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: I mean that's that is relativism. One oh one. 207 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: Well, imagine a husband walking in and say, honey, I 208 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: never received this monogamy thing. My girlfriends will be helping 209 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: you with cooking. I mean, this would work. No one 210 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: would buy this. But it is odd that he's trying 211 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: that the receiver suddenly is the creator of the dogma 212 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: and not the other way around. 213 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: Well, that's the church. That's a democratic principle. I just 214 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 2: state Abrahm Lincoln said the country runs in public opinion 215 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: because public opinion is heard at every election. There are 216 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 2: no elections in the Catholic Church that DESI what we 217 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: believe in. 218 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't hear that phrase. 219 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 3: That same phrase used when it comes with the traditional 220 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: Latin Mass, because the are large spots of people who 221 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 3: haven't received the teaching of the reason two popes that 222 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 3: that traditional Latin Mass, which is attracting all sorts of people, people, 223 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 3: young people in particular. I was just telling a posse 224 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: as we were driving over here that I read just 225 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 3: today that King Charles went to Birmingham for a Cardinal 226 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 3: Newman sat John Henry Newman event, and he was surprised, 227 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 3: he said, at how diverse the traditional Latin Mass that 228 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 3: was celebrated was That was the thing that most struck him. 229 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 3: Not the holiness, not the fidelity, not the beauty, not 230 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: the enthusiasm, but the diversity. 231 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 4: So we use we're using, you know, we're using. 232 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: Political terms to decide whether some one thing is good 233 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 3: in the religious realm, and that, frankly, is a disaster. 234 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 235 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: Well, look at this point, I think some of these 236 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: poor people in Charlotte, in Detroit, they would take the 237 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: they would take the diversity argument if that would keep 238 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: the mask going. It's and we're going to get to 239 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: that purge in a little bit. I want to talk 240 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: about another official meeting. It wasn't mentioned in the Vatican 241 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: press release, It wasn't mentioned to the press, but the 242 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: meeting took place. 243 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 4: We have the picture. 244 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: It was Poblio meeting with a notoriously pro abortion, progay 245 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: marriage sister Lucia Karum at the Vatican this week. Now, now, 246 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: Karen was a close friend to Pope Francis. It's not 247 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: known why her audience was left out of the bulletino, 248 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: but nonetheless they met. Why do you think that omission took. 249 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: Place, well, perhaps to avoid criticism, you know, from people 250 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: who know what she stands for. I mean, imagine this 251 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 2: a woman who believes that homoseexu should marry, you know, 252 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: basically saying marriage equals to people of same sex getting 253 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: the other and engaging in sexual activity. For her, that's 254 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: something holy. She believes in the ordination of women, which 255 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: the Catholic Church says is impossible. Why is a person 256 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 2: like that being given the privilege of meeting with the pope? Well, 257 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: because she was a friend of Pope Francis and I'm 258 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: sure like to you know, Israeli president, she said, can 259 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: I come in and see you? So they squeezed her in. 260 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: But at a certain point this is sort of like 261 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: it's like tea leaves. I mean, is the pontificate being 262 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: run by knowing what the guest list is that the 263 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: I mean, the principle of job of the Pope is 264 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: to confirm the brethren in the truths of the faith, 265 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: and that is not accomplished when heretics and people who 266 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: reject the moral teaching given an entree. And then, as 267 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 2: Bob says, why aren't the Latin mass people being invited 268 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: in so that they can express in their great diversity 269 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: by the way of all races and nations. Why the 270 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: Latin mass is so value with it? That's not happening. 271 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: This is a mistake that you've got to break out of. 272 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: Pope Francis largely ran His pontificate is a press conference. 273 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: The press conference way of talking to people. This should 274 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: not continue. 275 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: Well, what's happening, and maybe Pablio will become wise to 276 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: it as he watches it play out. The mere meeting, 277 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: the advertised meetings become a version of teaching. He's savvy enough, though, 278 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: he's going to catch wise. If he's being done wrong, 279 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: he'll catch wise. If this continues, well, then we're in 280 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: a different pontificate, moving in a different way. I want 281 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: to talk about this. Bishop Francesco Salvino, who's the vice 282 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: president of the Italian Bishop's Conference. He will be celebrating 283 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: a Mass on Saturday on September sixth at the Jazu 284 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: in Rome for an LGBT Jubilee pilgrimage. He has said 285 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: that every person, everyone, every homosexual person too, has a 286 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: right to the euchers and in the heart of the Gospel, 287 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: no one has excluded, Bob, what of this jubilee for 288 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: LGBT people, And do you worry about identifying a group 289 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: of Atholics as LGBT. 290 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And we know that inside this you know, 291 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: there's in university circles, there's this thing that is called intersectionality, 292 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: in which it's assumed that lesbians and gays, and trands, 293 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 3: and even Native Americans and other marginal groups, they're all 294 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: somehow on the same team. I often like to say 295 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: that if we went back to the Native Americans of 296 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 3: your they would be on the team of the NFL, 297 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 3: rather than on a team of the Trands. So there's 298 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 3: an attempt to put these these groups together for political reasons, 299 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: and so I think you're right to raise the question 300 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 3: why identify that as a specific group, and particularly why 301 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 3: identify it when when when the activity that those people 302 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: carry out is sinful. We don't have a group for robbers, 303 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: we don't have a group for housebreakers, we don't have 304 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: a group for adulterers. What this is is this is 305 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: a concer session to a political organization. I like to 306 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: say quite often that I think the biggest mistake that 307 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 3: Francis had made during his papacy was to. 308 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 4: Confuse his proper. 309 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 3: Feelings to be welcoming toward individuals, and not to be 310 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: sufficiently attentive to the ways that activists in these groups 311 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: are just relentless. 312 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 4: You know, you can meet. 313 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 3: With someone who's troubled. The famous phrase that when he 314 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 3: said who am I to judge? He was talking about 315 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 3: a person that he John Rica Batisa Batistatista Rica. He 316 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: was talking about a person who we thought was trying 317 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 3: to work toward God. He wasn't making a general statement, 318 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 3: but of course that's how the world took it, and 319 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 3: that's why popes need to be very careful about what 320 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 3: they say. But look, it's very important to say persons, 321 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: we welcome persons. Once you start to let activists get 322 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 3: their nose under the tent, you're dealing with a very 323 00:17:59,480 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 3: different end. 324 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 4: We've talked about Father James and Martin. 325 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 3: I'm sure all of you remember that when those same 326 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 3: sex blessings were permitted, they were not supposed to be public, 327 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 3: they were not supposed to be organized. But in the 328 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 3: New York Times of basically a day or two later, 329 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 3: Father James and Martin was blessing a couple of young men. 330 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: I don't think either of them was even Catholic. And 331 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: so this is what happened once political activism starts to 332 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: tint what the churches. 333 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: Do and father talk about. I mean the reality is, look, 334 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: I lived in New York, I live in New Orleans. 335 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: Gay people are welcome in the Catholic Church. Any sinners 336 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: that welcome in the Catholic Church as well. Why underline 337 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: it in this way? And I would argue separate somehow, 338 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: separate people by their sin. So I mean, as Bob said, 339 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: is there going to be an adulter's jubilee? I mean 340 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: this is I don't like the carving up of Catholics 341 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: in any way. 342 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 2: Well, because these people don't believe it's a sin. They 343 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: don't think sod I mean, is sinful. They think it's 344 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: what these people are meant to do. And that is 345 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 2: not welcoming them, if anything, is welcoming them on the 346 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: road to hell, because mortal sin, the penalty for that 347 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: is eternal death. If you don't accept that, you're not 348 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 2: a Catholic. So for Father Martin and others to say, 349 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: as this Bishop Savino that everyone's welcome received eucrative. If 350 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: you're engaged in sodomy with someone, you're not allowed to 351 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: receive community. You make a good confession and renounce that behavior. 352 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: So I'm always the welcoming thing. What does the Catholic 353 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 2: Church exist for? Is it a social society to confirm 354 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: people that God wants them to be happy? No, it's 355 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 2: a pilgrim people on journey toward Heaven, tempted by the 356 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 2: devil in their own weakness, and they need strength in 357 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: order to avoid sin. When the shepherd gives these uncertain 358 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 2: signals like this bishop and says everybody's welcome to the euchers, 359 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: he's telling people that have been told their whole life 360 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: you can't receive community. Now you can. That's a big difference. 361 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: He shouldn't do that, The Vaticans shouldn't allow him to 362 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: do that. This is why I'm concerned about the Pontificate 363 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: where it's going, because Catholic doctrine about homosexuality needs to 364 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: be defended when there's a wave of pro homosexual activity 365 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: going on. But it's not. We're getting that from people 366 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: like Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Sarah. We need it from 367 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: Pope Leo. Bob said back in twenty twelve, he said 368 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: there's a pressure group to promote this kind of lifestyle. 369 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: We need more teaching on this. 370 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: I want to talk about. We've seen a rash of 371 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: church attacks, hundreds of them in the United States in churches. 372 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: Here this week in Orange County, California, sat Michael's Abbey. 373 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: We know it, We've been there. This guy drives up. 374 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: He drove from Birmingham, Alabama. His name is Michael Richard 375 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: Joshua Michael Richardson drives from Birmingham, Alabama. High capacity magazines, 376 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: body armor, various weapons, knives. Thank god, the members of 377 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: the abbey saw him, called the cops and they stopped him. 378 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: Why are we seeing these crazed people. This guy said 379 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: he was the angel of death. He was there to 380 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: carry out God's will. Why are we seeing these crazed 381 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: people focus on and target Catholic churches in particular. 382 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 3: Well, my short answer for this is that it's because 383 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: the church is really the only institution in our postmodern 384 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 3: society that has the heft and the presence to stand. 385 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 4: Up to everything that's going wrong. In other words, to 386 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 4: stand up to the devil. 387 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 3: The devil is the one who tempts us to all 388 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: these evils that were experiencing. 389 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 4: I just wrote a book. 390 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 3: I've actually written two books about modern martyrdom, one about 391 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 3: the twentieth century martyrs and another about the twenty first 392 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 3: century martyrs. We were supposed to give a copy to 393 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 3: Pope Francis, but he died before we were able to 394 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 3: get into him. 395 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 4: And I was. 396 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: Shocked because in Europe as well as here in the 397 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 3: United States, there has been an enormous bump up of 398 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: anti Christian, mostly anti Catholic attacks. Arson's vandalism, just desecrating altars, 399 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: all sorts of things like this. I was just telling 400 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 3: that the guy's coming over here. In Viterbo in Italy, 401 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: the police just stopped two Muslims. Now there's this, there's 402 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: this anti Christian I would say post Christian demonism that 403 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 3: we're dealing with in the West, but there's also a 404 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 3: Muslim element that we need to be careful above. France 405 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 3: loses two religious buildings a month, usually to Arson. This 406 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 3: case up in Viterable in Italy, two Muslim terrorists had 407 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 3: stationed themselves with high powered weapons and they were about 408 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 3: to attack a group of forty thousand Catholks who had 409 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 3: assembled for the Feast. 410 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 4: Of Saint Rose in that city. 411 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 3: Fortunately, the police got a tip off and we're able 412 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 3: to stop it. But this is coming in our societies 413 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 3: and we need to be vigilant. 414 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 4: It creeps in. 415 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 3: You see this in England and France and in Germany. 416 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 3: It creeps in with you know, kind of just incremental 417 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: criticism of Catholicism in the church is preaching hate and 418 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 3: all these different things. But then it begins to take 419 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 3: hold in a much more serious way. And so one 420 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 3: of the things I always I have old chapter about 421 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: this in my newer book. One of the things I 422 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: emphasized there about our current situation is that's a reality 423 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 3: that's likely to grow unless we respond to it forcefully. 424 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it needs forceful response. I'm so depressed by 425 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: all this news. I need some happy news, so I'm 426 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: going to bring you some this weekend. Pope Leo is 427 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: about to canonize the first millennial saint, Carlo Acutis, and 428 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: then another young man, Georgio Rosati. My question is, Father, 429 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: first of all, why do we still need saints? I 430 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: get a lot of non Catholics ask, but why why 431 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: are you always making these new saints? Why do we 432 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: need new saints? And then Bob and the importance of 433 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: these two young men as saints. 434 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: Well, the Holy Spirit makes the saints will say that, 435 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: and when we cooperate with the grace of God, then 436 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: it becomes evident. In fact, saints are like poster children 437 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: for what it means to be a son or daughter 438 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: of God. And they you know, Pierre Giorgio Forsati Forens 439 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: came from a wealthy family, but he was so dedicated 440 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: to charity, you know, hidden he would give visits to 441 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: the sick and the poor. He also defended Catholicism against 442 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: anti clerical forces. He died young. At his funeral, all 443 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: these people showed up, poor people, people from all over 444 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: in Milan. He was a great model and example. And 445 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 2: Carlo Kudis, of course, was put together a website about 446 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 2: eucharistic miracles. And you know the reason we need saints 447 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 2: is because we're sinners, you know, we need to be inspired. 448 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: I you know, I look how you mentioned Cardinal Newman. 449 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: You know, John Henry Newman was you know canonized what 450 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 2: it was it ten years ago and you know he's 451 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: in this is one of the most intellectually astute people 452 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: ever to live in England. He has worldwide influence because 453 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 2: of his writings, but also because of his fidelity to God. 454 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: He realized the Catholic Church of the true Church, and 455 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: he left the church where he was the leading intellect. 456 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 2: So this is why we need things. They point us 457 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 2: in the right direction. 458 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: And I like that Fissante fought the communists and the fascists, 459 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: which nobody talks about, but he did that in turn. 460 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: He died at twenty four. Yes, yeah, amazing, what an 461 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: amazing life. And I do think these models of holiness 462 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: that look different from different areas of the world, that 463 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: is compelling, and that's another reason we need. 464 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 3: You know, the second Martyrs book that I just mentioned 465 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 3: that I wrote for the Jubilee year that we were 466 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 3: going to give to pou francis one of the things 467 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: that I was struck by writing the first book about 468 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 3: martyrs is a woman got up at one of my 469 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 3: lectures and said, weren't you depressed reading about all those 470 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: people being you know, hacked to death, shot, hung burned, 471 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 3: you know. And I looked at her and I said, 472 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 3: you know, it never crossed my mind. I'd never spent 473 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 3: so much concentrated time with such heroic and holy people. 474 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 4: And if you're looking. 475 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 3: For why it is that all of us placed in 476 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 3: the right circumstances can stand up to whatever challenges as Christians, 477 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 3: as Catholics are facing us. 478 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 4: You look at the martyrs. 479 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 3: This has always been the case since the very beginning 480 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: of the church. People who are willing to give up 481 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: their lives for the faith. That's a weakness that transcends 482 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 3: all the negativity that we find in the world. And 483 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 3: so I think of at least of the martyr parts 484 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 3: of this, and then even the non martyrs. You need 485 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 3: torches in the night, and we're in the night a lot. 486 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 4: In our societies. All of us struggle with sins in 487 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 4: our own lives. 488 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 3: But you look to some of these figures and you 489 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 3: say to yourself, man, it can be done, and maybe 490 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 3: I can do it too. 491 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, And talking about torches in the darkness, there is this, 492 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: and we've been reporting on this week after week. There 493 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: is a rise, a quiet growth of traditional faith. You 494 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: see it in the young, You see it in young men, 495 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: particularly in all the demographics. Cardinal Raymond Burke Cardinal Robert 496 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: Sarah are promoting a revival of First Saturday devotions. Also, 497 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: Bishop Earl Fernandez of the Diocese of Cincinnati said the 498 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: following there was nothing ideological about the traditional Latin Mass. 499 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: We wanted to offer the Mass to meet the pastoral 500 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: need of the people. It's a beautiful part of the 501 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: church's tradition. Father, are we seeing sprouts of vibrant traditional 502 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: faith emerging or is that just on the margin. 503 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 2: Oh, it's very much present. You know. I look at 504 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: the different groups that I'm aware of in this country, 505 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: some of them centered around traditional Catholic college of like Christendom, Commas, 506 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 2: Aquinas and some other wonderful places. The Latin Mass parish is, 507 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: you know, we have them in New York. Young people 508 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: are attracted by authenticity and and what is different than 509 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 2: what the secular world offers. And you know, if you 510 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 2: go to the Latin Mass. I'm sure many of the 511 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 2: people in the audience have done that, but if you haven't, 512 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: you go to it. The spirit is God centered, you know, 513 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 2: Cardinal Sarah said, you want to reform the church face east, 514 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 2: you know, celebrate Mass toward east. There's a whole Christian 515 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: tradition that the Mass is celebrated facing east because Christ 516 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 2: will return to the world. That the second Coming in 517 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 2: the East. So we're looking forward to the return, the 518 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 2: second Coming of Christ. Now, if it's sad to say. 519 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 2: In the average parish, if you turn the altar around, 520 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 2: people say, why are you giving us your back? They 521 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: don't never say that about airline pilots, by the way, 522 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: you know, train conductors. But no, there's a revival because 523 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: you know, everybody wants to know what am I supposed 524 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: to do on planet Earth before I die in order 525 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: to be happy forever. And they're not satisfied with the 526 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: n answer, which says, whatever you find important, that's important. No, 527 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: whatever God finds important. And certainly the tradition Latin mask 528 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 2: conveyed that. 529 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: Well, there's a tug of war. And I think ultimately 530 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: the lady you are going to have to settle this question. 531 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be the clergy with 532 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: apologies father, We'll see yeah. In Charlotte, North Carolina, this 533 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: Bishop Michael Martin, we've talked about him in the past. 534 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: This week he rejected the pleas to hold off stopping 535 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: the Latin Mass. He put a ban in place. At 536 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: the top of October. There will be only one mass celebrated. 537 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: All the people of the diocese will have to travel 538 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: to this one locale, not a church. It's a former 539 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: Protestant chapel they're renovating. He also has banned in school settings, 540 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: and I guess in every parish forbidden kneeling and the 541 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: use of aultra rails that committ. 542 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 2: And he has no authority to do that. I'm a 543 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 2: canon lawyer. You cannot forbid what the Roman liturgy permits. 544 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 2: There is no prohibition in the missile from receiving communion 545 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: kneeling none. Yeah, yeah, and yet absolutely not. Why this 546 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: hostility to kneeling down? 547 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: This ques Why would you attack the most vibrant, faithful 548 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: part of your church, particularly when you've got young people, 549 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: beautiful families, young guys coming in. Why do you want 550 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: to smack them down? 551 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 4: Well? 552 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: I think that there where it's sincere, and we don't 553 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 3: always know that it is sincere. 554 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 4: Sometimes it's just a kind. 555 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 3: Of a resentment of memories that people have about the past. 556 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 3: They seem to think that somehow it would be a throwback, 557 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 3: and people wouldn't be you know, they wouldn't be prepared 558 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 3: than to engage the world that they're in. 559 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 4: But we already are engaging. 560 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 3: I mean, lay people in particular are engaging the world 561 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 3: day after day and try and struggling in that world 562 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 3: and So if you want to think about what was 563 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 3: what does the Latin Mass do the traditional Latin Mass, Well, 564 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 3: Benedict the sixteenth allowed it frequently. Just any priests who 565 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 3: want to do it could say it. He said, because 566 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 3: we needed mutual enrichment. And what he meant by that 567 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: was the the part of the Church showed in its 568 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 3: liturgy before Vatican two and part of the Church that 569 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 3: shows up in the liturgy after Vatican two can have 570 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: a lot to say to one. And I'm not being 571 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: flipped when I say this, but the mere fact of 572 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 3: the matter is, and young people recognize this, an awful 573 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 3: lot of the Church existed prior to Vatican two. 574 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: Imagine that. 575 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: Imagine that. 576 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: Okay, I got to end on a funny note. Father, 577 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: you said, I think you sent this bit of video, 578 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: and it is. We're going to play it for people. 579 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: This is a group of dancing Filipino seminarians. God help us. 580 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: They're dancing to the official theme song of the implementation 581 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: of the Senate on Cinnadelite Father the official Sinadyl website, 582 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: the Vatican Snadyl Office. On their website, they say this 583 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: is spirit filled choreography. Do we need more boy bands 584 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: in seminar. 585 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: You know, if you want popping dance, go to Pop 586 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: and John on YouTube. I mean, there are a lot 587 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 2: of very creative dancers. You can be very entertained by 588 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 2: priests and seminarians. I'm not supposed to be dancing. This 589 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: is ridiculous. This is turning religion precisely into spectacle. The 590 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: goal here is to say people, we're not old fuddy duddies. 591 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: You know, and where people are. If you want to 592 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: see good dancing, go to a dance contest, don't go 593 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 2: to a seminary. Because I watched the video, they're okay, 594 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 2: they're not really great. 595 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 596 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 2: I mentioned Pop and John. This guy's a pro. That's 597 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 2: what's fun watching dancing. Look, you know Jackie Gleeson always 598 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 2: had the dancers on. It was always part of the 599 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: show and everybody liked it. 600 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: The June Taylor dance. 601 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Cardinals Felman, Yeah, Cardinals Felman did not have dancing 602 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: in Saint Patrick's Cathedral. 603 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: Yea. And for her reason, yeah, well, Bob wanted us 604 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: to be a boy man. I told you nobody, No, 605 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: we're not doing the choreography. I'll give you the last 606 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: word on this important topic. Book of Dancing seminarians. Do 607 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: we need more. 608 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: No, I mean if you have, if you haven't seen 609 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 3: this video, it really is worth it really is worth seeing. 610 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 3: And when you realize look, during that we were all 611 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: over for the Senate on Youth, and so little happened 612 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 3: in the Senate on Youth that the idea of citidelity 613 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,719 Speaker 3: was proposed out of the clear blue at the end 614 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 3: of the Senate on you you just have something further 615 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 3: to go with. But what I remember was just how 616 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 3: great those kids were. Those young people were who came 617 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 3: over to Rome and at sort of the final event, 618 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 3: there was dancing, there was music being played and whatnot. 619 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 4: But it didn't solve what they wanted. 620 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 3: There were any number of them who were interviewed that say, 621 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 3: we want the church to tell us what we should 622 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: be doing, to give us some guidance in our lives. 623 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: They can already do, you know, the dancing and the 624 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 3: karaoke on their own time. 625 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: We call this me too wisdom. You know basically, you 626 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: like this me too, You want to do that met 627 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: me too. That's not what we are. 628 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 3: There's got to be some adult in the room. We say, okay, 629 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 3: you want to know what it's like to live a. 630 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 4: Meaningful, deep life. It's also fun. You know. 631 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 3: At other times the church has something to tell you 632 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 3: about that, and we're here to do that. 633 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: Amen. 634 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: All right, Kate, that sounds like a note to end on. 635 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 1: We want to thank the posse. Thank you all for 636 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: having us here in Scottsdale, and we want to thank you. Look, 637 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: if you want to subscribe to the Payful Posse, go 638 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: to a Royal Grande show, either on the podcasts or 639 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: the YouTube channel, and until next time, follow the light, 640 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: stay in the light, stay the course. Thank you Posse. 641 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Fine, Thank you. A Royal 642 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: Grande is produced in partnership with Divine Providence Studios and 643 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts. It's available on the iHeartRadio, Apple, wherever you 644 00:34:48,680 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Book a spook Ass