1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin previously on Deep Cover. 2 00:00:24,636 --> 00:00:27,796 Speaker 2: Now, in a criminal case, the prosecution side of the story, 3 00:00:27,836 --> 00:00:30,356 Speaker 2: they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. As to 4 00:00:30,436 --> 00:00:32,836 Speaker 2: the defense side of the story, we just have to 5 00:00:32,916 --> 00:00:36,956 Speaker 2: create reasonable doubt. But we did way more than that. 6 00:00:38,116 --> 00:00:39,556 Speaker 3: I felt like I had to go to. 7 00:00:41,036 --> 00:00:42,876 Speaker 4: Trial every day and I feel like I had to 8 00:00:42,916 --> 00:00:47,276 Speaker 4: find truthful, not only for the family, for my mom. 9 00:00:47,596 --> 00:00:50,636 Speaker 5: People don't understand. It's not TV that it's cut and 10 00:00:50,676 --> 00:00:55,436 Speaker 5: everybody's happy. There is a life after a case, and 11 00:00:55,556 --> 00:00:57,876 Speaker 5: people have to live the rest of their lives dealing 12 00:00:57,916 --> 00:01:02,596 Speaker 5: with the murderer, his family, his friends, his associates. 13 00:01:03,156 --> 00:01:04,476 Speaker 3: They're going to have to look. 14 00:01:04,836 --> 00:01:11,836 Speaker 5: Behind their back for the rest of their lives. 15 00:01:13,436 --> 00:01:16,356 Speaker 1: In May of two thousand and eight, the trial for 16 00:01:16,396 --> 00:01:19,836 Speaker 1: the murder of Iran Wood was in full swing and 17 00:01:19,956 --> 00:01:23,676 Speaker 1: Tyrone would Iran's youngest brother. He had a front row 18 00:01:23,716 --> 00:01:26,996 Speaker 1: seat for it all, including a view of the defendant, 19 00:01:27,476 --> 00:01:28,316 Speaker 1: Tom Guybison. 20 00:01:29,116 --> 00:01:32,796 Speaker 4: I had to see this guy, and then you know, 21 00:01:32,876 --> 00:01:38,116 Speaker 4: I'm thinking, I know you did it, and you wanted 22 00:01:38,116 --> 00:01:42,116 Speaker 4: to meet Jamaica one day and that's Beyrd, I mean man. 23 00:01:42,236 --> 00:01:45,556 Speaker 3: Then after that, because I know you did you killed 24 00:01:45,636 --> 00:01:46,036 Speaker 3: my brother. 25 00:01:47,396 --> 00:01:52,516 Speaker 1: So at least Tyrone didn't have to face this alone. 26 00:01:52,756 --> 00:01:55,116 Speaker 4: I always had someone with me, whether it was my brother, 27 00:01:55,636 --> 00:01:58,916 Speaker 4: my uncle, one of my uncle's friends. 28 00:01:59,076 --> 00:02:02,116 Speaker 3: I was never, like ever, completely by myself. 29 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:08,476 Speaker 1: For years, the story of Iran Wood and his mysterious 30 00:02:08,596 --> 00:02:12,036 Speaker 1: murder had been a largely private affair for the Wood family. 31 00:02:12,796 --> 00:02:16,556 Speaker 1: The grief, the uncertainty, and the hope for justice had 32 00:02:16,596 --> 00:02:21,316 Speaker 1: been theirs alone. But that had changed. Newspapers printed blow 33 00:02:21,316 --> 00:02:24,516 Speaker 1: by blow coverage of the trial for weeks. It was 34 00:02:24,556 --> 00:02:28,436 Speaker 1: a gripping drama playing out in real time. So many 35 00:02:28,516 --> 00:02:29,996 Speaker 1: people were following the story. 36 00:02:30,036 --> 00:02:30,276 Speaker 3: Now. 37 00:02:31,596 --> 00:02:34,916 Speaker 1: One of them was Tyrone's boss. Usually he was a 38 00:02:34,916 --> 00:02:38,796 Speaker 1: man of few words, not the expressive type, but apparently 39 00:02:39,156 --> 00:02:40,876 Speaker 1: he felt compelled to say something. 40 00:02:42,396 --> 00:02:46,076 Speaker 3: He said Wow. I said, wow, what did you say? 41 00:02:46,116 --> 00:02:46,476 Speaker 3: Wild for? 42 00:02:47,196 --> 00:02:49,916 Speaker 4: And him and I are not close, and he said, 43 00:02:51,236 --> 00:02:54,796 Speaker 4: I couldn't believe that you went through that because he 44 00:02:54,876 --> 00:02:57,996 Speaker 4: saw it in he was watching the news and he 45 00:02:58,476 --> 00:03:00,996 Speaker 4: was blown away because he never knew. 46 00:03:01,556 --> 00:03:03,956 Speaker 3: And I tell people all the time, everybody got a story. 47 00:03:04,716 --> 00:03:06,876 Speaker 3: I don't want. Nobody had my story. 48 00:03:07,596 --> 00:03:13,676 Speaker 4: Well of a suddenly being killed, but everybody has the story. 49 00:03:14,676 --> 00:03:17,916 Speaker 1: For the Wood family, this ordeal, which had shaped their 50 00:03:17,956 --> 00:03:22,436 Speaker 1: lives for almost two decades, was maybe, just maybe coming 51 00:03:22,436 --> 00:03:27,876 Speaker 1: to a close. Both sides made their closing arguments, then 52 00:03:28,196 --> 00:03:31,116 Speaker 1: at last it was time for the jury to deliberate. 53 00:03:32,196 --> 00:03:34,756 Speaker 1: It would be up to them to pass judgment and 54 00:03:34,876 --> 00:03:38,996 Speaker 1: render a verdict. Turns out things got pretty heated in 55 00:03:39,036 --> 00:03:42,876 Speaker 1: that jury room. The whole process was fraud. But in 56 00:03:42,916 --> 00:03:46,636 Speaker 1: the end they did reach a verdict. It just wasn't 57 00:03:46,636 --> 00:03:50,236 Speaker 1: the verdict that anyone, either the defense or the prosecution, 58 00:03:51,236 --> 00:04:09,796 Speaker 1: ever expected. I'm Jake Halbern and this is Deep Cover, 59 00:04:09,956 --> 00:04:27,596 Speaker 1: Season four, The Nameless Man, Episode six, The Verdict, our 60 00:04:27,636 --> 00:04:38,876 Speaker 1: season finale. There's almost nothing in the public record about 61 00:04:38,876 --> 00:04:42,556 Speaker 1: what the jurors discussed during their deliberations. Some of them 62 00:04:42,636 --> 00:04:44,916 Speaker 1: took notes, but they had to hand them over at 63 00:04:44,916 --> 00:04:47,556 Speaker 1: the end of the trial. One duror talked to a 64 00:04:47,596 --> 00:04:51,076 Speaker 1: newspaper reporter when it was all over, but that was it. 65 00:04:51,676 --> 00:04:55,396 Speaker 1: So their whole decision making process, it's remained a mystery 66 00:04:55,556 --> 00:04:58,956 Speaker 1: to this day. I knew it would be tricky tracking 67 00:04:58,956 --> 00:05:02,276 Speaker 1: down the jurors in this case. For starters, I wasn't 68 00:05:02,316 --> 00:05:05,556 Speaker 1: even sure how many of them were still alive. I mean, 69 00:05:05,636 --> 00:05:09,836 Speaker 1: it had been over fifteen years since the trial Eventually 70 00:05:09,956 --> 00:05:13,036 Speaker 1: I connected with several of the jurors and interviewed two 71 00:05:13,036 --> 00:05:14,436 Speaker 1: of them, starting with this guy. 72 00:05:15,596 --> 00:05:20,476 Speaker 6: Okay, my name is Bob. I'm a Philadelphian and I 73 00:05:20,596 --> 00:05:23,756 Speaker 6: was selected to serve on the jury that heard the 74 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:25,516 Speaker 6: case of Thomas Guibison. 75 00:05:26,476 --> 00:05:29,076 Speaker 1: To protect his privacy, I'm not going to use Bob's 76 00:05:29,116 --> 00:05:31,956 Speaker 1: last name, but I can tell you Bob is a 77 00:05:31,996 --> 00:05:35,356 Speaker 1: science nerd and that informs his outlook on life. 78 00:05:35,956 --> 00:05:38,836 Speaker 6: Being trained as a scientist, I would say, yeah, logic 79 00:05:39,036 --> 00:05:43,156 Speaker 6: was a big part at or at least seriously questioning things, 80 00:05:43,916 --> 00:05:48,876 Speaker 6: and you know what's proof and what's not proof. You know, 81 00:05:48,916 --> 00:05:51,596 Speaker 6: where is their doubt, what degree of doubt is there 82 00:05:51,876 --> 00:05:52,476 Speaker 6: in things? 83 00:05:53,276 --> 00:05:56,316 Speaker 1: So in many ways, Bob is kind of an ideal juror. 84 00:05:56,956 --> 00:06:00,756 Speaker 1: He's been selected to sit on six juries for this trial. 85 00:06:01,196 --> 00:06:05,156 Speaker 1: Mike Ferrell, the defense lawyer, questioned potential jurors about their 86 00:06:05,196 --> 00:06:09,276 Speaker 1: sense of fairness. He asked Bob point blank if he 87 00:06:09,316 --> 00:06:12,916 Speaker 1: could set aside whatever biases he might have about someone 88 00:06:13,036 --> 00:06:14,516 Speaker 1: being a skinhead. 89 00:06:15,276 --> 00:06:19,796 Speaker 6: And my response was, I wouldn't make any presumption on that. 90 00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:23,876 Speaker 6: I would listen to the testimony and I would decide 91 00:06:23,876 --> 00:06:28,356 Speaker 6: according to this specific facts of the specific case. 92 00:06:29,676 --> 00:06:31,636 Speaker 1: Bob was selected to be on the jury in this 93 00:06:31,796 --> 00:06:35,316 Speaker 1: case along with eleven others, Four of them were black, 94 00:06:35,716 --> 00:06:41,356 Speaker 1: eight of them were white. Tom Guybison was facing four charges, 95 00:06:41,956 --> 00:06:45,756 Speaker 1: a weapon charge, conspiracy to commit murder, murder in the 96 00:06:45,796 --> 00:06:50,796 Speaker 1: first degree, and finally ethnic intimidation. That last one is 97 00:06:50,836 --> 00:06:55,596 Speaker 1: basically what Pennsylvania calls a hate crime. As I see it, 98 00:06:55,836 --> 00:06:59,236 Speaker 1: there were two fundamental questions that the jury was facing. 99 00:06:59,876 --> 00:07:04,156 Speaker 1: Number one, did it really happen? In other words, do 100 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:07,796 Speaker 1: you believe that years ago Tom Guybison murdered a black 101 00:07:07,836 --> 00:07:12,116 Speaker 1: man in Philadelphia? Then there was the second question, was 102 00:07:12,156 --> 00:07:16,116 Speaker 1: there enough evidence to convict Tom, specifically for the murder 103 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:20,196 Speaker 1: of Iran Wood. The first question did it really happen? 104 00:07:20,756 --> 00:07:24,556 Speaker 1: Hinged on the testimony of the prosecution's three star witnesses. 105 00:07:25,196 --> 00:07:27,836 Speaker 1: There were the two ex girlfriends, both of whom claimed 106 00:07:27,836 --> 00:07:31,196 Speaker 1: that Tom had confessed to them, and then there was 107 00:07:31,236 --> 00:07:37,996 Speaker 1: Craig Peterson, who said that he was the accomplice. Bob 108 00:07:38,076 --> 00:07:42,236 Speaker 1: listened to the witnesses testimonies with rapt attention. He found 109 00:07:42,276 --> 00:07:43,876 Speaker 1: the ex girlfriends believable. 110 00:07:44,556 --> 00:07:49,036 Speaker 6: I don't remember anything specifically about their testimony that I 111 00:07:49,156 --> 00:07:52,236 Speaker 6: thought that that doesn't ring true. Or I really have 112 00:07:52,396 --> 00:07:55,876 Speaker 6: doubts about that. I thought they made credible witnesses. 113 00:07:56,916 --> 00:08:00,036 Speaker 1: And he felt the same way about Craig. Thought he 114 00:08:00,076 --> 00:08:03,756 Speaker 1: seemed credible. But here's the thing, says Bob. 115 00:08:04,356 --> 00:08:07,276 Speaker 6: Somebody can be credible about something that happened twenty years 116 00:08:07,276 --> 00:08:09,836 Speaker 6: ago and not remember it completely correct. 117 00:08:10,476 --> 00:08:13,956 Speaker 1: Bob said, case in point was the very conversation that 118 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:15,036 Speaker 1: he and I were having. 119 00:08:15,916 --> 00:08:19,756 Speaker 6: Now, I'm trying to remember fifteen years ago what I 120 00:08:19,836 --> 00:08:22,716 Speaker 6: experienced on a trial. I can't remember a lot of it. 121 00:08:23,916 --> 00:08:27,476 Speaker 1: Bob told me some things he remembered very well, specific 122 00:08:27,516 --> 00:08:31,556 Speaker 1: moments in the trial, feelings, he had parts of conversations 123 00:08:31,556 --> 00:08:35,836 Speaker 1: that took place, but other details escaped him, or maybe 124 00:08:35,876 --> 00:08:38,436 Speaker 1: he recalled them hazily, not in the way that he 125 00:08:38,476 --> 00:08:43,116 Speaker 1: could trust. And this, right here was the problem for Bob. 126 00:08:43,516 --> 00:08:46,476 Speaker 1: He told me it was entirely possible that Craig was 127 00:08:46,516 --> 00:08:51,436 Speaker 1: telling the truth, but that Craig's memory was imperfect. And 128 00:08:51,956 --> 00:08:55,916 Speaker 1: that's a big thing, because Craig's confession, with all of 129 00:08:55,956 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 1: its specific details, is what connected Tom Guybison to the 130 00:09:00,436 --> 00:09:01,796 Speaker 1: murder of iron Wood. 131 00:09:02,796 --> 00:09:07,276 Speaker 6: I definitely did have some doubts, yeah, absolutely, but I 132 00:09:07,356 --> 00:09:09,116 Speaker 6: wanted to discuss them. I wanted to hear what other 133 00:09:09,236 --> 00:09:11,596 Speaker 6: people had to say because they might alleviate my doubts. 134 00:09:12,916 --> 00:09:16,876 Speaker 1: So when the jury gathered behind closed doors, Bob expressed 135 00:09:16,956 --> 00:09:19,876 Speaker 1: his doubts. He just laid them all out. 136 00:09:20,116 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 6: They might have even killed someone, but it might not 137 00:09:22,676 --> 00:09:25,676 Speaker 6: have been on that day and at that time, because 138 00:09:25,716 --> 00:09:29,156 Speaker 6: there was you know, there was there were possible recollection issues, 139 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:33,076 Speaker 6: and that I thought that the location description, the date 140 00:09:33,316 --> 00:09:35,556 Speaker 6: and the dayton time that they came to the city 141 00:09:36,636 --> 00:09:39,596 Speaker 6: were wobbly, and the description of how they got where 142 00:09:39,596 --> 00:09:40,316 Speaker 6: they got. 143 00:09:40,516 --> 00:09:45,996 Speaker 1: When you start voicing your doubts to your fellow jurors, 144 00:09:46,596 --> 00:09:47,996 Speaker 1: what do they say back? 145 00:09:48,196 --> 00:09:51,556 Speaker 6: Various jurors, you know, are quiet, Some of them just 146 00:09:51,676 --> 00:09:54,796 Speaker 6: take it in. A couple of other people started to 147 00:09:54,836 --> 00:09:59,156 Speaker 6: say the same thing. Is this timeline, you know, something 148 00:09:59,156 --> 00:10:02,156 Speaker 6: we can rely on, and the location something we can 149 00:10:02,196 --> 00:10:04,436 Speaker 6: rely on. Do we really know that that's where they 150 00:10:04,516 --> 00:10:08,356 Speaker 6: wound up and that they killed you know, Aron Wood, 151 00:10:09,116 --> 00:10:09,516 Speaker 6: I don't know. 152 00:10:14,556 --> 00:10:17,356 Speaker 1: Back in two thousand and six, when the Philly PD 153 00:10:17,716 --> 00:10:21,276 Speaker 1: first started searching for a potential victim, they looked at 154 00:10:21,356 --> 00:10:25,236 Speaker 1: all the unsolved murders. From January through May of nineteen 155 00:10:25,276 --> 00:10:29,196 Speaker 1: eighty nine, there were thirty seven of them. Then they 156 00:10:29,276 --> 00:10:33,036 Speaker 1: narrowed down the pool of possibilities by considering several key 157 00:10:33,116 --> 00:10:37,596 Speaker 1: details that Craig remembered. These details included the general location 158 00:10:37,756 --> 00:10:40,636 Speaker 1: of the crime, the type of weapon, and the nature 159 00:10:40,716 --> 00:10:44,276 Speaker 1: of the wound a single shot to the head. They 160 00:10:44,316 --> 00:10:49,516 Speaker 1: found just one match around wood. But this is the 161 00:10:49,596 --> 00:10:53,116 Speaker 1: thing about reasonable doubt. All it takes is a juror 162 00:10:53,236 --> 00:10:57,396 Speaker 1: questioning a single fact, like, for example, what if Tom 163 00:10:57,436 --> 00:11:01,116 Speaker 1: fired his gone twice, not once, because there was in 164 00:11:01,156 --> 00:11:04,356 Speaker 1: fact another cold case victim from the spring of eighty 165 00:11:04,476 --> 00:11:08,036 Speaker 1: nine who died of two gunshot wounds. The defense brought 166 00:11:08,076 --> 00:11:12,916 Speaker 1: this other victim up during the trial. So if you 167 00:11:13,036 --> 00:11:15,916 Speaker 1: find Craig credible, like so many of the jurors did, 168 00:11:16,236 --> 00:11:19,516 Speaker 1: it seems very reasonable to assume that he'd correctly remember 169 00:11:19,596 --> 00:11:22,876 Speaker 1: how many times Tom's gun went off. Craig had been 170 00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:27,036 Speaker 1: consistent about this. But the key is if God to 171 00:11:27,116 --> 00:11:31,956 Speaker 1: have faith in Craig's memory, enough faith that reasonable doubt 172 00:11:32,236 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 1: doesn't creep in. Bob says as he continued to think 173 00:11:38,236 --> 00:11:42,236 Speaker 1: it through, he became increasingly convinced that at the very 174 00:11:42,316 --> 00:11:46,556 Speaker 1: least Tom and Craig had conspired to commit murder. He 175 00:11:46,636 --> 00:11:49,556 Speaker 1: was just having his doubts about the particulars of whom 176 00:11:49,596 --> 00:11:52,396 Speaker 1: they might have killed, and so too were some of 177 00:11:52,396 --> 00:11:56,316 Speaker 1: his fellow jurors, says Bob. So they decided to send 178 00:11:56,356 --> 00:11:59,516 Speaker 1: a note to the judge with a question. They actually 179 00:11:59,516 --> 00:12:02,676 Speaker 1: did this a few times. And here's what Bob was 180 00:12:02,796 --> 00:12:03,876 Speaker 1: really struggling with. 181 00:12:04,996 --> 00:12:07,516 Speaker 6: If we convict somebody a murder, so we have to 182 00:12:07,516 --> 00:12:11,756 Speaker 6: convict him of murdering a specific That's now that sounds 183 00:12:11,756 --> 00:12:14,316 Speaker 6: like a weird question to ask, right, But that's where 184 00:12:14,316 --> 00:12:17,516 Speaker 6: we got to in the discussions, Like we even believed 185 00:12:17,556 --> 00:12:19,316 Speaker 6: they came here to kill somebody, and they might have 186 00:12:19,396 --> 00:12:22,356 Speaker 6: killed somebody, we're just not convinced that's who they killed. 187 00:12:22,356 --> 00:12:25,196 Speaker 1: If they did kill somebody, and what did the judge say? 188 00:12:26,316 --> 00:12:30,676 Speaker 6: The judge essentially, you know, stated the law as the law. 189 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:33,996 Speaker 6: But the bottom line was, if you convict someone of 190 00:12:33,996 --> 00:12:37,636 Speaker 6: a murder, it must be a specific person that they killed. 191 00:12:37,636 --> 00:12:38,876 Speaker 6: It you have to convict them of. 192 00:12:39,236 --> 00:12:41,716 Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. If the judge had 193 00:12:41,716 --> 00:12:45,476 Speaker 1: come back and told you you can, you can make 194 00:12:45,476 --> 00:12:49,396 Speaker 1: a murder conviction even if you don't think it was would. 195 00:12:50,596 --> 00:12:54,636 Speaker 6: Yes, how would you what I have voted? I believe 196 00:12:54,636 --> 00:12:56,956 Speaker 6: I would have voted guilty on that. 197 00:13:04,076 --> 00:13:07,236 Speaker 1: By the third day of deliberations, the mood in the 198 00:13:07,316 --> 00:13:08,676 Speaker 1: jury room was tense. 199 00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:12,516 Speaker 6: I was tired. I was thinking about this all the time, 200 00:13:12,596 --> 00:13:15,956 Speaker 6: even when I wasn't in there. It's difficult to be 201 00:13:15,996 --> 00:13:18,956 Speaker 6: put in this situation, to know there was a victim, 202 00:13:19,396 --> 00:13:21,796 Speaker 6: even the idea that you know, the family, you know, 203 00:13:22,436 --> 00:13:25,276 Speaker 6: might be looking foreclosure on this and want somebody that's 204 00:13:25,396 --> 00:13:28,316 Speaker 6: you know, guilty of it. But I haven't been given 205 00:13:29,436 --> 00:13:31,476 Speaker 6: the evidence to be able to do that. 206 00:13:33,236 --> 00:13:35,916 Speaker 1: Bob says from the start of the trial, he was 207 00:13:35,916 --> 00:13:39,436 Speaker 1: determined to hear all the evidence, all the testimony, and 208 00:13:39,516 --> 00:13:42,556 Speaker 1: keep an open mind, to focus on the facts, to 209 00:13:42,596 --> 00:13:46,516 Speaker 1: avoid making leaps of logic, and when necessary, to question 210 00:13:46,556 --> 00:13:50,276 Speaker 1: his own thinking. And now his doubts took cold. 211 00:13:51,276 --> 00:13:53,796 Speaker 6: I teared up when I was talking to the other drawers. 212 00:13:54,236 --> 00:13:57,196 Speaker 6: I was, you know, we were kind of wrung out. 213 00:13:57,676 --> 00:14:01,196 Speaker 6: He kept asking himself, Am I seeing it the right way? 214 00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:04,396 Speaker 6: Is there something I'm missing? Is it a moral failing 215 00:14:04,436 --> 00:14:06,476 Speaker 6: of mind that I'm not willing to make the jump 216 00:14:07,636 --> 00:14:09,916 Speaker 6: because I think it's shaky, Or am I on the 217 00:14:09,996 --> 00:14:13,676 Speaker 6: right moral side of the question because I actually have doubts. 218 00:14:13,676 --> 00:14:16,476 Speaker 6: In a series of doubts and I, you know, I 219 00:14:16,876 --> 00:14:19,676 Speaker 6: can't make the leap that does that make me weak? 220 00:14:20,196 --> 00:14:22,956 Speaker 6: I don't know. All I can do is be true 221 00:14:22,996 --> 00:14:24,636 Speaker 6: to myself. I'm getting emotional now. 222 00:14:26,636 --> 00:14:30,116 Speaker 1: Well, all these years later, it's still yeah. 223 00:14:30,156 --> 00:14:31,076 Speaker 6: It was really hard. 224 00:14:41,796 --> 00:14:45,476 Speaker 1: As deliberations wore on, it seemed like the jury was 225 00:14:45,516 --> 00:14:49,036 Speaker 1: starting to unravel. If there is any hope of a resolution, 226 00:14:49,836 --> 00:14:52,676 Speaker 1: it fell upon this person. I'd like to think of 227 00:14:52,756 --> 00:14:56,876 Speaker 1: myself as even keeled, and I think that's that's probably 228 00:14:56,916 --> 00:15:01,356 Speaker 1: why I took a lead role on the jury. This 229 00:15:01,476 --> 00:15:04,316 Speaker 1: is the jury's foreman. I'm not using his real name. 230 00:15:04,596 --> 00:15:07,796 Speaker 1: We decided to call him Nick in our interview as 231 00:15:07,876 --> 00:15:10,876 Speaker 1: foreman Nick. He's the guy who had to read the verdict, 232 00:15:11,316 --> 00:15:14,716 Speaker 1: but the foreman. He's also like a team manager. And 233 00:15:14,796 --> 00:15:17,956 Speaker 1: at this point three days in, seemed like the team 234 00:15:18,356 --> 00:15:19,356 Speaker 1: had hit a brick wall. 235 00:15:20,316 --> 00:15:24,236 Speaker 7: Pressure was growing within the group to come to a conclusion. 236 00:15:27,436 --> 00:15:30,036 Speaker 7: There was a feeling of we don't have more to 237 00:15:30,116 --> 00:15:30,516 Speaker 7: go on. 238 00:15:31,396 --> 00:15:34,476 Speaker 1: At this point, They've been over the testimony again and again, 239 00:15:35,116 --> 00:15:38,276 Speaker 1: they'd asked for guidance from the judge, and now they 240 00:15:38,276 --> 00:15:41,836 Speaker 1: had to start making choices based on my conversations with 241 00:15:41,876 --> 00:15:45,276 Speaker 1: the jurors and news coverage from the time. It seems 242 00:15:45,316 --> 00:15:49,236 Speaker 1: like the jury divided into three camps. First, there was 243 00:15:49,276 --> 00:15:53,156 Speaker 1: the guilty camp. They were convinced by the prosecution's argument 244 00:15:53,956 --> 00:15:57,516 Speaker 1: and we're basically ready to convict Tom Gobison on all counts, 245 00:15:57,796 --> 00:16:02,116 Speaker 1: including the murder of iron Wood. According to Nick, the foreman, 246 00:16:02,516 --> 00:16:07,316 Speaker 1: this camp included the majority of jurors, including himself. Then 247 00:16:07,556 --> 00:16:09,956 Speaker 1: there was what I call the on the fence camp, 248 00:16:10,236 --> 00:16:14,196 Speaker 1: which included Bob. They thought there'd probably been a murder, 249 00:16:14,516 --> 00:16:17,036 Speaker 1: but had doubts that the victim was a Ron Wood. 250 00:16:18,156 --> 00:16:21,276 Speaker 1: And finally there was the holdout. He was a camp 251 00:16:21,316 --> 00:16:25,476 Speaker 1: unto himself, one guy, and apparently he wanted to acquit 252 00:16:25,476 --> 00:16:28,876 Speaker 1: Tom Gybison on all counts. He made this plane from 253 00:16:28,916 --> 00:16:32,556 Speaker 1: the very start, and after making his case, he refused 254 00:16:32,556 --> 00:16:36,476 Speaker 1: to discuss the matter any further, just stop talking. And 255 00:16:36,556 --> 00:16:40,596 Speaker 1: now three days into deliberations, patience was wearing thin. 256 00:16:41,716 --> 00:16:45,996 Speaker 7: There was a sense Tuesday morning that we were out 257 00:16:46,036 --> 00:16:50,036 Speaker 7: of time. Essentially, there was no more persuasion to happen. 258 00:16:50,196 --> 00:16:53,276 Speaker 7: We'd all, you know, made our cases based on notes, 259 00:16:53,316 --> 00:16:57,596 Speaker 7: based on recollection, based on feelings, and the holdout was 260 00:16:57,636 --> 00:16:58,276 Speaker 7: not budgeing. 261 00:16:58,996 --> 00:17:00,716 Speaker 1: How do you navigate out of that situation. 262 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:06,116 Speaker 7: So we negotiated. 263 00:17:06,156 --> 00:17:09,516 Speaker 1: Just to be clear here, when he says they negotiated, 264 00:17:10,076 --> 00:17:14,156 Speaker 1: he's talking about the charges brought against Tom, like, could 265 00:17:14,156 --> 00:17:18,036 Speaker 1: they reach a compromise. As the foreman of the jury, 266 00:17:18,276 --> 00:17:20,956 Speaker 1: Nick was in a tricky spot because he thought what 267 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:25,676 Speaker 1: the prosecution argued was in fact true. He found Craig believable, 268 00:17:26,076 --> 00:17:30,836 Speaker 1: he found Craig's detailed memories credible. But as foreman, he 269 00:17:30,956 --> 00:17:34,796 Speaker 1: was also trying to build consensus and avoid a hung jury. 270 00:17:35,596 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 1: It's a tough situation, right, because if you come back 271 00:17:38,516 --> 00:17:42,516 Speaker 1: with a hung jury, there's a chance that this guy 272 00:17:42,596 --> 00:17:44,316 Speaker 1: ends up serving no time at all if the case 273 00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:45,156 Speaker 1: is not retried. 274 00:17:46,956 --> 00:17:52,796 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's exactly what the conversation was, and I think 275 00:17:53,116 --> 00:18:00,316 Speaker 7: enough people felt strongly that he should go to to 276 00:18:00,396 --> 00:18:03,236 Speaker 7: prison for some of this. 277 00:18:05,196 --> 00:18:09,076 Speaker 1: Ultimately, after three days of deliberations, the jury sent word 278 00:18:09,876 --> 00:18:12,836 Speaker 1: they were done. All that was left to do was 279 00:18:12,916 --> 00:18:17,036 Speaker 1: file back into the courtroom and tell everyone what they decided. 280 00:18:18,356 --> 00:18:42,476 Speaker 1: That's after the break. Mike Ferrell, the defense lawyer, remembers 281 00:18:42,516 --> 00:18:45,756 Speaker 1: getting the call that the jury had reached a verdict. 282 00:18:46,396 --> 00:18:48,876 Speaker 2: In the life of the trial lawyer, there is no 283 00:18:49,116 --> 00:18:53,676 Speaker 2: time that in any way comes close to the apprehension 284 00:18:53,956 --> 00:18:56,636 Speaker 2: when you know the jury has a verdict but you 285 00:18:56,676 --> 00:18:58,076 Speaker 2: haven't heard it yet. 286 00:18:59,036 --> 00:19:03,116 Speaker 1: With growing anticipation, he made his way back to the courtroom. 287 00:19:03,756 --> 00:19:09,396 Speaker 2: I remember distinctly having to get on an elevator, hide 288 00:19:09,556 --> 00:19:12,836 Speaker 2: up an elevator multiple floors. 289 00:19:13,956 --> 00:19:17,956 Speaker 1: In the courtroom, everyone was there, the prosecutor, Roger King, 290 00:19:18,556 --> 00:19:22,836 Speaker 1: members of iron Woods family, the jury, the press, and 291 00:19:22,916 --> 00:19:28,036 Speaker 1: of course Tom Guybison. The judge called the room to attention. 292 00:19:29,356 --> 00:19:32,396 Speaker 1: Nick the foreman of the jury, rose to his feet 293 00:19:33,036 --> 00:19:34,516 Speaker 1: and prepared to read the verdict. 294 00:19:36,196 --> 00:19:40,996 Speaker 7: It's incredibly surreal standing in a room with someone who's 295 00:19:41,036 --> 00:19:47,596 Speaker 7: being accused of, you know, cold blooded murder, you know, 296 00:19:47,676 --> 00:19:50,836 Speaker 7: believing that he did it, being convinced I should say 297 00:19:50,836 --> 00:19:54,196 Speaker 7: that that he was the one who did these things, 298 00:19:56,116 --> 00:19:58,436 Speaker 7: and knowing that he's going to look me directly in 299 00:19:58,476 --> 00:20:02,316 Speaker 7: the eye. It was just incredibly surreal, and I just 300 00:20:02,356 --> 00:20:05,556 Speaker 7: took a breath and reminded myself this was real life, 301 00:20:06,276 --> 00:20:11,036 Speaker 7: and then read the read the results. 302 00:20:12,596 --> 00:20:15,956 Speaker 1: The charges were read aloud one final time before the 303 00:20:16,036 --> 00:20:17,396 Speaker 1: jury delivered their verdict. 304 00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:23,156 Speaker 2: The court officer then reads the charge to the first charge, 305 00:20:23,236 --> 00:20:25,116 Speaker 2: the murder of our Wood. How do you find the 306 00:20:25,156 --> 00:20:29,916 Speaker 2: defendant and the jury says not guilty, and that not 307 00:20:30,476 --> 00:20:34,516 Speaker 2: is a you know, a glorious moment in the life of. 308 00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:35,076 Speaker 3: A trial, or. 309 00:20:37,156 --> 00:20:38,996 Speaker 1: What goes through your mind at that moment when you 310 00:20:38,996 --> 00:20:39,396 Speaker 1: hear that. 311 00:20:41,236 --> 00:20:43,996 Speaker 2: Justice has been done. 312 00:20:44,236 --> 00:20:47,196 Speaker 1: The jury acquitted him a first degree murder and of 313 00:20:47,236 --> 00:20:51,156 Speaker 1: ethnic intimidation too. But there was more to the verdict. 314 00:20:51,716 --> 00:20:54,916 Speaker 1: The jury did find Tom Guybison guilty on the two 315 00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:59,916 Speaker 1: lesser charges, conspiracy to commit murder and carrying a firearm 316 00:20:59,916 --> 00:21:03,276 Speaker 1: without a license, crimes that could land time in prison 317 00:21:03,356 --> 00:21:08,636 Speaker 1: for years. That was the compromise, the deal the jury 318 00:21:08,676 --> 00:21:15,236 Speaker 1: had struck uck. When this hit the papers, the Philadelphia 319 00:21:15,316 --> 00:21:20,156 Speaker 1: Daily News called it a bizarre split verdict. The reporter 320 00:21:20,356 --> 00:21:24,956 Speaker 1: described the scene in the courtroom after the verdict was announced, quote, 321 00:21:25,636 --> 00:21:30,076 Speaker 1: A tense Guybison appeared angry, his hands tightly clenched on 322 00:21:30,116 --> 00:21:34,676 Speaker 1: the desk. His attorney, Mike Ferrell, acknowledged the partial win 323 00:21:35,196 --> 00:21:39,236 Speaker 1: by playfully poking Guybison in the bicep above the hitler 324 00:21:39,276 --> 00:21:43,356 Speaker 1: and swastika tattoo hidden by his white, long sleeved shirt. 325 00:21:50,196 --> 00:21:53,076 Speaker 1: For the members of the Wood family, several of whom 326 00:21:53,116 --> 00:21:55,956 Speaker 1: were present, the verdict made no sense. 327 00:21:56,796 --> 00:21:59,076 Speaker 3: We were in quote the first work. 328 00:21:59,196 --> 00:22:01,676 Speaker 4: I guess come to minds what my uncle said, because 329 00:22:01,716 --> 00:22:03,476 Speaker 4: I was basically speechless. 330 00:22:03,916 --> 00:22:05,076 Speaker 3: Uh, he said, travesty. 331 00:22:06,236 --> 00:22:10,876 Speaker 1: That's Tyrone Wood, Iran's youngest brother. Much like Nick, the 332 00:22:10,916 --> 00:22:15,316 Speaker 1: foreman of the jury, Tyrone believed Greig's testimony, believed in 333 00:22:15,356 --> 00:22:18,436 Speaker 1: the integrity of his memory, and felt that there should 334 00:22:18,436 --> 00:22:19,516 Speaker 1: have been a murder conviction. 335 00:22:20,276 --> 00:22:24,676 Speaker 4: Murder is murder. The guy that drove him testified that 336 00:22:25,796 --> 00:22:29,796 Speaker 4: he done it. He did it, We drove I drove him. 337 00:22:29,796 --> 00:22:32,836 Speaker 4: There he shot the black man. 338 00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:37,996 Speaker 1: At some point, according to a press account, Roger King, 339 00:22:38,116 --> 00:22:41,276 Speaker 1: the prosecutor, gathered members of the Wood family into his 340 00:22:41,396 --> 00:22:44,596 Speaker 1: side room and told them, don't try to make any 341 00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:47,996 Speaker 1: sense out of it now. There is an impossible task. 342 00:22:48,876 --> 00:22:51,836 Speaker 1: It had been almost twenty years since Iran Wood had died, 343 00:22:52,396 --> 00:22:55,196 Speaker 1: and during this time, this is what the Wood family 344 00:22:55,236 --> 00:22:58,636 Speaker 1: had tried to do. Makes sense out of it, understand 345 00:22:58,756 --> 00:23:02,436 Speaker 1: how and why Iran had died, and hope for closure. 346 00:23:03,556 --> 00:23:06,436 Speaker 1: Roger King told the family that the verdict was likely 347 00:23:06,436 --> 00:23:10,716 Speaker 1: a compromise within the jury, which of course was true. 348 00:23:11,036 --> 00:23:14,916 Speaker 1: Nick the foreman, had tried to build consensus. 349 00:23:15,516 --> 00:23:21,156 Speaker 7: I thought it was the best we could do, and 350 00:23:21,676 --> 00:23:24,476 Speaker 7: that did not feel great. There was no way to 351 00:23:24,556 --> 00:23:32,436 Speaker 7: feel one hundred percent about it. When you're you're negotiating 352 00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:38,396 Speaker 7: on something you believed to be. 353 00:23:37,076 --> 00:23:41,436 Speaker 8: True, Does that mean that you feel that basically like 354 00:23:42,756 --> 00:23:45,156 Speaker 8: he got off. He got away with murder in the 355 00:23:45,196 --> 00:23:47,076 Speaker 8: sense that he got off on a murder charge that 356 00:23:47,196 --> 00:23:48,756 Speaker 8: you felt he deserved. 357 00:23:50,156 --> 00:23:52,996 Speaker 3: To be convicted of. That's correct. 358 00:23:56,636 --> 00:23:59,796 Speaker 1: Long after I talked with Nick, his words lingered in 359 00:23:59,836 --> 00:24:03,996 Speaker 1: my mind. You're negotiating on something that you believed to 360 00:24:04,036 --> 00:24:08,116 Speaker 1: be true. But how do you barter with the truth, 361 00:24:09,116 --> 00:24:11,356 Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, the truth is 362 00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:15,756 Speaker 1: supposed to be singular, non negotiable. But it seemed like 363 00:24:15,916 --> 00:24:19,876 Speaker 1: in this case, perhaps the truth and justice, or at 364 00:24:19,916 --> 00:24:23,396 Speaker 1: least the justice that was possible, were two separate things, 365 00:24:24,476 --> 00:24:28,116 Speaker 1: and so a deal was struck, a compromise. But the 366 00:24:28,156 --> 00:24:30,676 Speaker 1: cost for Nick and the other members of the jury 367 00:24:30,756 --> 00:24:34,116 Speaker 1: too was a claim to the truth as they saw it. 368 00:24:36,476 --> 00:24:39,716 Speaker 1: This moment had been years in the making. The whole 369 00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:43,236 Speaker 1: investigation began back in two thousand and four when two 370 00:24:43,276 --> 00:24:47,116 Speaker 1: federal agents, Scott Duffy and Terry Mortimer, set out to 371 00:24:47,156 --> 00:24:51,036 Speaker 1: solve this case. For them, this was a divine quest 372 00:24:51,116 --> 00:24:54,716 Speaker 1: to find a nameless man the victim, and they believed 373 00:24:54,716 --> 00:24:58,156 Speaker 1: they'd found him. For the Wood family, this was a 374 00:24:58,236 --> 00:25:02,916 Speaker 1: quest for another nameless man, the murderer, and they believed 375 00:25:02,916 --> 00:25:06,716 Speaker 1: they'd found him. But in the end, some on the 376 00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:10,876 Speaker 1: jury didn't see it that way, and this left everyone 377 00:25:10,956 --> 00:25:16,476 Speaker 1: wondering what did it all mean? For those involved, the agents, 378 00:25:16,916 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 1: the jurors, and especially the Wood family, the question lingered, 379 00:25:21,756 --> 00:25:25,276 Speaker 1: and they each, in their own way, searched for an answer. 380 00:25:26,876 --> 00:25:31,236 Speaker 1: Scott Duffy, the FBI agent, remained unshaken in his belief 381 00:25:31,476 --> 00:25:32,916 Speaker 1: that they had solved this crime. 382 00:25:33,876 --> 00:25:37,196 Speaker 9: I felt so strongly that we had the right person 383 00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:45,636 Speaker 9: and the right victim connected. But that's what happens in 384 00:25:45,676 --> 00:25:49,636 Speaker 9: a case where I have to accept whatever the jury delivers. 385 00:25:49,716 --> 00:25:52,996 Speaker 9: It doesn't tell me if I did enough or didn't 386 00:25:52,996 --> 00:25:55,676 Speaker 9: do enough. I don't go down that rabbit hole. 387 00:25:55,716 --> 00:25:56,156 Speaker 3: I can't. 388 00:25:57,396 --> 00:25:58,996 Speaker 7: I can what if everything to death. 389 00:26:00,316 --> 00:26:02,556 Speaker 1: Scott says that he felt a sense of relief when 390 00:26:02,556 --> 00:26:06,316 Speaker 1: it was all over, a sense of vindication that justice 391 00:26:06,556 --> 00:26:09,956 Speaker 1: was in fact served because Tom had found guilty on 392 00:26:10,036 --> 00:26:13,956 Speaker 1: some counts and he'd been sent to prison. I asked 393 00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:18,076 Speaker 1: Scott how he felt now about Craig Peterson and whether 394 00:26:18,076 --> 00:26:22,556 Speaker 1: he thinks Craig got the justice he deserved. I mean, 395 00:26:22,556 --> 00:26:24,516 Speaker 1: he may not have pulled the trigger, but if he 396 00:26:24,636 --> 00:26:28,596 Speaker 1: is to be believed, he conspired to murder an innocent man, 397 00:26:29,636 --> 00:26:33,676 Speaker 1: and he walked away Scott free. How do you. 398 00:26:35,116 --> 00:26:35,756 Speaker 2: Process that? 399 00:26:36,796 --> 00:26:41,596 Speaker 9: I process it in a way that what's the alternative? 400 00:26:42,436 --> 00:26:47,196 Speaker 9: If we did not give Craig what I think was 401 00:26:47,276 --> 00:26:53,436 Speaker 9: required of us, There'd be nothing. There would be no 402 00:26:55,356 --> 00:26:59,836 Speaker 9: justice to the family, there would be no investigation. It 403 00:26:59,876 --> 00:27:04,716 Speaker 9: would have stopped, it would have closed, and I'd be 404 00:27:04,796 --> 00:27:07,316 Speaker 9: left just wondering did we do enough. 405 00:27:10,076 --> 00:27:11,676 Speaker 1: I hear you saying that this was a kind of 406 00:27:13,036 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 1: a necessary compromise to make this thing work. But it 407 00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:21,676 Speaker 1: is a necessary compromise that sits well with you. 408 00:27:24,316 --> 00:27:30,636 Speaker 9: When it is your only option. Yes, when it's your 409 00:27:30,676 --> 00:27:39,076 Speaker 9: only option. It is something that has to sit not comfortable, 410 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:43,916 Speaker 9: but it is something you must accept as part of 411 00:27:44,396 --> 00:27:45,556 Speaker 9: our justice system. 412 00:27:47,116 --> 00:27:50,836 Speaker 1: Scott's partner, Terry Mortimer, told me that he felt proud 413 00:27:50,836 --> 00:27:53,436 Speaker 1: of the work that he and Scott had done, but 414 00:27:53,476 --> 00:27:56,676 Speaker 1: he also noted that when the verdict came out, this 415 00:27:56,876 --> 00:28:00,116 Speaker 1: bizarre split verdict as the papers called it, he got 416 00:28:00,156 --> 00:28:02,636 Speaker 1: grief for it, even from his own colleagues. 417 00:28:03,756 --> 00:28:07,516 Speaker 10: I remember talking to a superior who seemed a little 418 00:28:07,596 --> 00:28:11,636 Speaker 10: upset that he didn't get the full homicide conviction and 419 00:28:11,756 --> 00:28:14,396 Speaker 10: kind of like, yeah, but you only got a conspiracy. Man, 420 00:28:14,516 --> 00:28:19,756 Speaker 10: what happened? Like, what happened to you guys? I'm like, hey, man, 421 00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:23,196 Speaker 10: we did the best we could. I mean, it's we're 422 00:28:23,236 --> 00:28:24,316 Speaker 10: not we weren't on the jury. 423 00:28:25,476 --> 00:28:28,836 Speaker 1: Terry says that before the verdict came down, his boss 424 00:28:28,916 --> 00:28:31,556 Speaker 1: wanted to issue a press release, make a big deal 425 00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:34,276 Speaker 1: out of the whole thing, but that never happened. 426 00:28:35,156 --> 00:28:38,556 Speaker 10: It seemed disappointed. It was like the case was never 427 00:28:38,596 --> 00:28:43,516 Speaker 10: mentioned again. It was like it was like almost like 428 00:28:43,516 --> 00:28:44,156 Speaker 10: it didn't happen. 429 00:28:48,756 --> 00:28:52,236 Speaker 1: And then there's the Wood family. When I spoke with them, 430 00:28:52,596 --> 00:28:55,356 Speaker 1: I could see how Iran's death had shaped their lives 431 00:28:55,796 --> 00:28:59,036 Speaker 1: in so many ways. It almost pulled them under not 432 00:28:59,276 --> 00:29:02,836 Speaker 1: once but twice, first back in nineteen eighty nine when 433 00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:06,076 Speaker 1: Iran was murdered, and then again in two thousand and 434 00:29:06,116 --> 00:29:10,556 Speaker 1: eight at the trial. Michael, the middle brother, told me 435 00:29:10,636 --> 00:29:13,716 Speaker 1: that the trial forced him to come to terms with 436 00:29:13,756 --> 00:29:15,556 Speaker 1: what he'd been grappling with for years. 437 00:29:16,516 --> 00:29:20,356 Speaker 11: Now you're facing you're really facing your enemy, that this 438 00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:22,996 Speaker 11: person that killed you both. Do you really forgive this person. 439 00:29:25,036 --> 00:29:28,276 Speaker 11: I've learned to forgive this person. They'd killed my brother, 440 00:29:28,356 --> 00:29:30,756 Speaker 11: I say, and now that I'm facing to see who 441 00:29:30,796 --> 00:29:32,876 Speaker 11: this person is, I forgave him already. 442 00:29:32,876 --> 00:29:35,036 Speaker 3: There's nothing really I can do about it, you know. 443 00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:45,916 Speaker 1: In the end, both Michael and Tyrone say they found 444 00:29:45,916 --> 00:29:50,596 Speaker 1: the closure they were looking for, But there were moments still, 445 00:29:50,676 --> 00:29:55,716 Speaker 1: our moments when the past resurfaces. Tom Guybison was released 446 00:29:55,756 --> 00:29:59,436 Speaker 1: from prison in twenty fifteen, which was earlier than expected. 447 00:30:00,036 --> 00:30:02,556 Speaker 1: Tom was originally given twelve and a half to twenty 448 00:30:02,596 --> 00:30:06,356 Speaker 1: five years on the conspiracy and gun charges, but it 449 00:30:06,476 --> 00:30:08,836 Speaker 1: turns out the judge in the case had used the 450 00:30:09,396 --> 00:30:13,356 Speaker 1: sentencing guidelines given him too much time. Tom was later 451 00:30:13,516 --> 00:30:17,756 Speaker 1: re sentenced and ultimately served roughly eight years. By the way, 452 00:30:18,156 --> 00:30:20,396 Speaker 1: we did reach out to Tom for this story, but 453 00:30:20,716 --> 00:30:25,596 Speaker 1: we never heard back. When Tom was released, nobody informed 454 00:30:25,636 --> 00:30:27,876 Speaker 1: the Wood family. They didn't get so much as a 455 00:30:27,956 --> 00:30:33,036 Speaker 1: heads up from the authorities, not a call, not a letter, nothing. 456 00:30:34,156 --> 00:30:37,196 Speaker 4: I had to find out on the Internet looking for 457 00:30:37,356 --> 00:30:39,116 Speaker 4: his name, and I did it on the humbug. I 458 00:30:39,196 --> 00:30:41,716 Speaker 4: was just want I just punching his name and said, oh, 459 00:30:41,836 --> 00:30:47,396 Speaker 4: he's released. I thought that they lit us down and 460 00:30:47,556 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 4: that's why I guess in the sense I have some 461 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:54,956 Speaker 4: faith in the justice system, but don't let him out 462 00:30:55,036 --> 00:30:56,316 Speaker 4: without letting us know. 463 00:30:58,676 --> 00:31:01,916 Speaker 1: There are other moments when memories of the trial re emerge. 464 00:31:02,796 --> 00:31:04,916 Speaker 1: Tyrone told me about a trip he took to rural 465 00:31:04,956 --> 00:31:08,836 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania with his then wife and how he felt really 466 00:31:08,836 --> 00:31:11,636 Speaker 1: out of place, realizing that they were the only black 467 00:31:11,716 --> 00:31:15,036 Speaker 1: couple around, and kind of having a moment of anxiety. 468 00:31:16,636 --> 00:31:20,036 Speaker 4: And then I said, no, stop, stop, stop, you're letting 469 00:31:20,996 --> 00:31:24,076 Speaker 4: letting this world change you. That's not who you are. 470 00:31:25,036 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 4: And if I go and give them to those fears, 471 00:31:28,076 --> 00:31:30,796 Speaker 4: Thomas won, and you're not gonna win. I don't give 472 00:31:30,836 --> 00:31:33,396 Speaker 4: you out. I don't know if you alive, I don't 473 00:31:33,436 --> 00:31:34,876 Speaker 4: know what's going on with you, but I'm not gonna 474 00:31:34,956 --> 00:31:38,196 Speaker 4: let you win. I'm sixty, so I try not to 475 00:31:38,316 --> 00:31:43,876 Speaker 4: let anyone change me, because I think that's given anybody 476 00:31:43,956 --> 00:31:44,716 Speaker 4: too much power. 477 00:31:45,796 --> 00:31:47,396 Speaker 3: So I don't want to change the person I am. 478 00:31:49,796 --> 00:31:53,276 Speaker 1: As he said this, Tyrone gestured at his brother Michael, 479 00:31:53,636 --> 00:31:54,636 Speaker 1: at his niece Michelle. 480 00:31:55,356 --> 00:31:57,556 Speaker 4: So they'll tell you them. I'm just as silly as 481 00:31:57,596 --> 00:32:01,716 Speaker 4: they come. I play around. I'm a hugger. I hugged 482 00:32:01,756 --> 00:32:04,276 Speaker 4: them every time I see them, and what I say, Oh, 483 00:32:04,356 --> 00:32:05,996 Speaker 4: I love y'all because that's what my mother. Well, I 484 00:32:06,036 --> 00:32:08,436 Speaker 4: will say love you, God, bless you, and then we 485 00:32:08,516 --> 00:32:08,956 Speaker 4: will leave. 486 00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:13,756 Speaker 12: That was like the thing that I remember y'all said, 487 00:32:13,836 --> 00:32:16,556 Speaker 12: since you know, I don't go around pain, and she 488 00:32:16,676 --> 00:32:19,676 Speaker 12: always say, make sure you say you know I love you. 489 00:32:20,036 --> 00:32:22,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, before you you know you leave. So we do 490 00:32:22,836 --> 00:32:23,156 Speaker 3: it now. 491 00:32:23,476 --> 00:32:26,716 Speaker 4: Like I'll see my brother and I don't looking. I'm 492 00:32:26,756 --> 00:32:28,716 Speaker 4: gonna hug my brother and tell me I love you man, 493 00:32:29,716 --> 00:32:30,516 Speaker 4: because we're family. 494 00:32:37,116 --> 00:32:40,916 Speaker 1: Always make sure to say it. That was Dorothy Wood's wisdom. 495 00:32:41,876 --> 00:32:46,156 Speaker 1: It's a sweet sentiment, but to me, it also speaks 496 00:32:46,196 --> 00:32:48,876 Speaker 1: to the way that loss and grief stay with us, 497 00:32:49,676 --> 00:32:58,676 Speaker 1: whispering in our ears. When I think back to the 498 00:32:58,716 --> 00:33:01,956 Speaker 1: way that everything played out with the trial, there's something 499 00:33:02,036 --> 00:33:03,516 Speaker 1: fundamentally unsatisfying. 500 00:33:04,516 --> 00:33:04,716 Speaker 12: Yeah. 501 00:33:04,876 --> 00:33:09,356 Speaker 1: Sure, we know that prosecutors bargain passes are given or 502 00:33:09,596 --> 00:33:13,556 Speaker 1: strike deals, and in many ways the whole justice system 503 00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:17,076 Speaker 1: is a series of compromises. Most defendants don't even go 504 00:33:17,156 --> 00:33:22,276 Speaker 1: to trial, they just make please. And yet many of us, 505 00:33:22,636 --> 00:33:27,076 Speaker 1: myself included, hold on to the perhaps naive hope of 506 00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:31,276 Speaker 1: pure justice and clean endings, where the good guys win 507 00:33:31,476 --> 00:33:36,396 Speaker 1: and righteousness prevails, and anything short of that leaves us 508 00:33:36,676 --> 00:33:45,636 Speaker 1: a bit unsettled and secretly deflated. Before saying goodbye to 509 00:33:45,716 --> 00:33:48,676 Speaker 1: the Wood family, I did what I always do at 510 00:33:48,716 --> 00:33:51,236 Speaker 1: the end of an interview. I threw out my hail 511 00:33:51,316 --> 00:33:54,916 Speaker 1: Mary question, anything that we didn't cover that you think 512 00:33:54,996 --> 00:33:55,996 Speaker 1: is important for us to know? 513 00:33:56,556 --> 00:34:00,156 Speaker 3: Oh, I think that it's about cover. It covered every 514 00:34:00,276 --> 00:34:01,676 Speaker 3: pretty everything is about. 515 00:34:02,396 --> 00:34:06,556 Speaker 12: I want to say that I'm grateful that my grandma's 516 00:34:06,596 --> 00:34:11,156 Speaker 12: praise was answered. I feel like that her praying put 517 00:34:11,236 --> 00:34:15,556 Speaker 12: that conviction in the FBI agents to chase this cold 518 00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:22,876 Speaker 12: case and drew Laman and you know is will help, 519 00:34:23,076 --> 00:34:24,956 Speaker 12: you know, bring closure to this for her. 520 00:34:30,276 --> 00:34:33,236 Speaker 1: As Michelle sees it, her grandmother sent out a prayer 521 00:34:33,876 --> 00:34:37,556 Speaker 1: and someone heard it, two guys actually Scott and Terry, 522 00:34:38,236 --> 00:34:44,276 Speaker 1: and ultimately their investigation brought her peace. Michelle never met 523 00:34:44,356 --> 00:34:47,156 Speaker 1: Scott or Terry, never talked to them, never even knew 524 00:34:47,156 --> 00:34:52,156 Speaker 1: their names, and yet her take dovetails almost perfectly with theirs. 525 00:34:52,796 --> 00:34:56,236 Speaker 1: The way they talked about being drawn in, almost mystically, 526 00:34:56,436 --> 00:35:01,116 Speaker 1: as if summoned. I have to say, I'm not exactly 527 00:35:01,236 --> 00:35:04,356 Speaker 1: sure it's the ending I had write. But then again, 528 00:35:05,196 --> 00:35:30,836 Speaker 1: This Isn't My Story, Not Really. Deep Cover is produced 529 00:35:30,876 --> 00:35:34,876 Speaker 1: by Amy Gaines McQuaid and Jacob Smith. It's edited by 530 00:35:34,996 --> 00:35:39,556 Speaker 1: Karen Schakerji mastering by Jake Gorsky. Our show art was 531 00:35:39,636 --> 00:35:43,436 Speaker 1: designed by Sean Carney. Original scoring in our theme was 532 00:35:43,516 --> 00:35:48,156 Speaker 1: composed by Luis Gara, fact checking by Arthur Gomberts. Our 533 00:35:48,276 --> 00:35:53,556 Speaker 1: story consultant was James Foreman Jr. Special thanks to Daphne Chen, 534 00:35:53,916 --> 00:35:59,516 Speaker 1: Izzy Carter, Eric Sandler, Kira Posey, Jordan McMillan, Enna Scrobots, 535 00:35:59,756 --> 00:36:05,316 Speaker 1: Alexandra Garton, Lydia, Jane Kott, Greta Cone, Sarah Nix, Jake Flanagan, 536 00:36:05,676 --> 00:36:09,956 Speaker 1: and Kerrie Brody. Additional thanks to Jerry Williams, Jill Gillette, 537 00:36:10,196 --> 00:36:16,996 Speaker 1: Travis Dunlap, Elizabeth walked Out, Greta Weber, Isaac Gaines, Natasha Sebastian, 538 00:36:17,276 --> 00:37:14,956 Speaker 1: and Lucian. I'm Jake Calbern. If you enjoyed this season 539 00:37:15,276 --> 00:37:18,236 Speaker 1: and are in search of more investigations like ours, well, 540 00:37:18,276 --> 00:37:21,396 Speaker 1: I've got a few recommendations for you. Don't forget your 541 00:37:21,436 --> 00:37:25,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus membership grants you access to exclusive, ad free 542 00:37:25,396 --> 00:37:30,716 Speaker 1: binges of shows like Lost Hill's Dark Canyon, which investigates 543 00:37:30,836 --> 00:37:34,836 Speaker 1: the dark side of Malibu, California. In season four, host 544 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:38,116 Speaker 1: Dana Goodyear investigates the death of a twenty four year 545 00:37:38,156 --> 00:37:40,636 Speaker 1: old black woman who went missing in two thousand and 546 00:37:40,836 --> 00:37:44,516 Speaker 1: nine after being detained and released from the Malibu Lost 547 00:37:44,596 --> 00:37:50,476 Speaker 1: Hills Sheriff Station. New episodes launch June twelfth. Another recommendation 548 00:37:50,556 --> 00:37:53,596 Speaker 1: I have for you is Where's Dia? Coming July ninth. 549 00:37:54,356 --> 00:37:57,836 Speaker 1: In the beautiful mountain town of Idlewild, a millionaire widow 550 00:37:57,836 --> 00:37:59,996 Speaker 1: who was in the middle of a messy legal battle 551 00:38:00,276 --> 00:38:05,196 Speaker 1: with her estranged children suddenly vanishes, leaving behind her beloved 552 00:38:05,276 --> 00:38:08,836 Speaker 1: horse and idyllic ranch. A man who claims to be 553 00:38:08,876 --> 00:38:12,316 Speaker 1: her fiance launches a very public campaign to find her, 554 00:38:12,916 --> 00:38:16,036 Speaker 1: but when another woman dies at the same ranch, it 555 00:38:16,116 --> 00:38:18,756 Speaker 1: appears that there's more to the story than meets the eye. 556 00:38:19,556 --> 00:38:23,356 Speaker 1: Where's Dia begins on July ninth, and if you want 557 00:38:23,396 --> 00:38:26,316 Speaker 1: to listen to something right now, I recommend you check 558 00:38:26,356 --> 00:38:29,676 Speaker 1: out Death of an Artist Krasner and Pollock. You probably 559 00:38:29,716 --> 00:38:32,676 Speaker 1: heard of Jackson Pollock, but you may never heard of 560 00:38:32,956 --> 00:38:37,156 Speaker 1: Lee Krasner, an artist, Pollock's wife and the woman who 561 00:38:37,196 --> 00:38:41,076 Speaker 1: made him famous and in so doing, changed everything about 562 00:38:41,076 --> 00:38:47,436 Speaker 1: the landscape of modern art. This is a story of love, power, alcoholism, brutality, 563 00:38:47,996 --> 00:38:51,076 Speaker 1: and ill timed death. You can listen to Death of 564 00:38:51,076 --> 00:38:54,476 Speaker 1: an Artist, Krasner and Pollock wherever you get your podcasts, 565 00:38:55,196 --> 00:38:57,996 Speaker 1: and to binge the entirety of these shows on launch 566 00:38:58,116 --> 00:39:01,396 Speaker 1: day early in ad free. You can subscribe to Pushkin 567 00:39:01,436 --> 00:39:04,876 Speaker 1: Plus on their Apple Podcast show page or at pushkin 568 00:39:05,036 --> 00:39:06,916 Speaker 1: dot fm slash plus