WEBVTT - Ep. 470: Render - Civil War Memory, Dr. Brooks Blevins, and Why We Remember 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.120 My name is Clay Knucomb and this is a production 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.520 of the bear Grease podcast called the bear Grease Render, 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.119 where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.760 scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast. Brought to you 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.600 by Tokov's Boots. I'm a cowboy boot man and I've 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.639 been wearing to Covis for years. There the most comfortable 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.040 boot I've ever put on. Good boots for good times. 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:50.000 We're rollinglling, We're rolling here we are. We found ourselves 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.840 on the third episode of bear Grease's attempt to dip 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.920 but a single pail of water out of the ocean 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:03.520 of the Civil War. And my has it been fascinating? 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.800 It really has? And my do We have an eclectic 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.200 group of people here and we're going to do the 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.639 classic bear Grease Render, introduce our. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.520 Guests varying levels of facial hair right now. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:17.080 Yeah. 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:17.399 Yes. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.039 If they may not even be able to recognize me 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:22.200 just by audience. 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:23.920 I want to tell everybody what your name is. 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.280 My name is Clay Nukelem and I worked for Farm Bureau. 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.080 I'm a Farm Bureau insurance agent. I've shaved my beard. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.280 Misty always says I look like an insurance agent. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.720 Well, he just looks trustworthy, you know, he looks like 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.319 as opposed to how he looked before. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:38.760 Well, he didn't look trustworthy. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:45.120 Okay, listen, last week I went to the pinnacle of 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:52.200 social strata in Arkansas at the Little Rock Country Club. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:57.000 Your very Clay nukemb was at the Little Rock Country Club. Okay, Brooks, 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.200 you would understand that have not yet to introduce I'm 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:09.240 waiting for him. More than one very well respected, esteemed, older, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:15.320 older gentleman looked at me and instantaneously went, you look great, 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.040 way better than you used to. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:21.959 Compliment. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:27.480 Oh, it was so immediate, like he like these guys 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.960 just couldn't help being I mean it was a compliment. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.480 They were like saying, hey, you look good. But really 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.080 it was like, for the last twenty years you have 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:36.880 looked really rough. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:38.040 Yeah. 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:39.799 Oh, have you gotten yourself a home now? 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.639 Yeah? Yeah, So, I mean so I took it. So anyway, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:45.919 I'm clean shaven. That's that's all we're going to say 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.320 about it. You know, Jelly Roll the other day, there 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.079 was there was there was comp there was it came 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:55.560 out in the media that Jelly Roll had divorced his wife. Okay, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.519 and it was like all over the media and everybody 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.760 was like, oh, no, Jelly Rolls left his wife. Jelly 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.160 roll didn't in fact leave his wife. And he spoke 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.440 about it, and he said, I'm going to say this 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.560 one time and then we're going to be done. I'm 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:14.720 still with my wife. Everything's okay. Fake media, you know, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.200 it was promoting this stuff. He said, this is the 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.640 last time I will speak about it. This is the 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.000 last time that I will speak about this shaved face. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.560 Josh, well, is it going to stick around for a while. 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.720 We'll see, we'll see it. We have a great crew, doctor, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.000 mister dukem be so lovely to have you, Josh Lambridge, Spilmmakers, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.040 Bear John the Bear, John dukem and in the COVID 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.720 is hot seat of one of my favorite people, doctor Brooks. 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.840 And yes, I when I was in Little Rock the 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:52.080 time before Brooks, I told a very a big crowd 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.080 of people, I said, if you want to be my friend, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.120 like if you if we officially engage in friendship, you know, 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:00.960 there's like some paper work you got to go through 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.160 and stuff. One of the required reading materials is doctor 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:11.760 Brooks Blevin's book Arkansas Arkansas. So this book is what 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:12.960 what's this book about. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:18.080 It's about the history of the image of Arkansas, kind 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.400 of the hillbilly image of Arkansas. Well, probably the funnest 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:22.279 book I ever wrote. 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.040 So you've written a ton of books, several Yeah. So 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.360 Brooks is known as the I mean, he's a historian 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:36.040 and works where where What's what university do you. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.560 Work for at Missouri State University, sury State? Yeah? 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.080 Yeah, uh in Springfield. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:41.240 In Springfield. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.360 Yeah, but he's known as the historian of the Ozarks. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.080 I mean, undisputable. 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:49.599 You might not. I'm sure you don't know this. 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.320 But when we first started our school, we had a 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.440 summer program and then I made all the middle. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:56.480 Schoolers read this. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.520 Really Yeah, we did a whole summer program about Arkansas 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:01.560 and it was so fun and I mean it was 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.200 we went all over Arkansas and we you know, saw 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:05.919 all the things and we read all the all. It 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.960 was probably our second summer and we had the best time. 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:11.520 And the kids thought this was a real riot. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.080 You were a little young, you were not a middle schooler, 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.240 but your sisters, your sisters were here. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.080 So what I think is so great about this book 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:23.520 is it it really gives you the backstory of place 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:29.279 and not everybody's from Arkansas, and that's okay. But the 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.520 the name Arkansas has spelled the modern correct way, and 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.200 then the second Arkansas, and the title is spelled with 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:40.440 a W because in like early frontier Arkansas, many people 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.640 spelled it fanatically, I guess, and put a W at 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.880 the end. And so so brooks point inside of this 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.640 book is that there's there's kind of two Arkansas's in 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.960 a way, and and some of it is kind of fictitious, 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.440 and it's kind of a stereotype that's stuck with us 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.719 through the years. But it's all rooted and element of 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.919 truth that was amplified for all these different reasons and 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.200 and and it's a fascinating book. But to me, the 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.120 point is to just do your best to try to 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.960 understand where you're from. That's what it did for me. 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.360 And I was adult an adult before I read this. 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.920 And I asked Brooks, would you say that we are 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.040 our Cansons are Arkansawyers? 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.320 I would say, everyone gets to decide. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.479 And what does it say about you if you describe yourself. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:36.280 As an Arcanson, it's you're probably not too far from 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:37.919 the little Rock Country Club. 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:41.680 Yeah. 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.800 I consider my wonderful people, wonderful people. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:45.240 Yeah. 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:51.240 Yeah, I'm an Arkansawer. But but I say, you know, 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.680 not everyone's comfortable with that term Arkansawor because it does 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:00.520 sound more country. And so what whatever people want to you, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:05.200 can you make a switch from one to the other. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.400 And it's just a little bit of paper. And I 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:13.280 ply and I probably do myself, just in different circumstances. 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:17.200 You know, my Arkansas yourself might not go over as 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:22.160 well teaching a graduate history course at Missouri State. You know, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.160 it's it's a little bit of code switching. I guess 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.160 I get it, you know, but but I'm yeah, I 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.440 I I say Arkansas your but uh anyone who wants 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.040 to say Arkansas and I don't have a problem with that, 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.040 because that's I think that's more of the official, kind 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:42.720 of the maybe unofficial official way of addressing ourselves. 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:47.040 Yeah. Well, no, I think this is a this is 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.760 a great a great book, and and and anybody if 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.040 they had an author in their state and their reading 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.880 that is doing what Brooks has done for us. It's 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.760 a it's a it's a grand feat. But uh so 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.880 US has also written a bunch of books of like 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.080 deep dive history into the kind of the chronology of 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.600 the Ozarks and and how how things kind of went down. 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.920 Yeah, and that would the middle schoolers. There's a There 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.920 are a couple of instances of course language in that book, which. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.240 I wasn't going to bring it up. Okay, it's an 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:21.080 elephant in the room. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.679 Okay, I should say like this, we went through it together. Okay, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:25.720 that's how I should say it. We went through it together, 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.360 Genie Wayne. Is that did I say or not that 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.880 she came and spoke to the crew because it was 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.480 just right down the street from the University of Arkansas. 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.160 She came and spoke to him. We we went through 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:36.560 it together. 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:37.080 Okay, we did. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.560 It was like our Arkansas history and it was you. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:40.960 You said the dirty words. 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:41.319 I did not. 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:44.000 It's nothing terribly bad. 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:48.160 It's not you know, lower on the on the wrongs 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.600 of language, and there are always quotes, are almost always quote. 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:57.040 I'm in general, I'm not a bad language type feller. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.319 But but if. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.199 I'm quoting some yeah, let them fly, let them fly 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.080 more Arkansas phrase that I've ever heard. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.600 I'm not one of them. Bad. 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.520 Would you say bad I say bad language, bad language. 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.280 Fellers, bad language fellers. 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.960 Yeah, No, we went through it together and it was 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.920 just fun for the kids to kind of hear how 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.400 people perceie because you know, they pick up on that stuff. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.040 And so we we had a good time to go. 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:29.280 We went to the Arkansas Post, which is a little 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.200 bit We were expecting more. 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:33.880 Out of Arkansas Post. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.200 See there five hours. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:36.320 Oh my goodness. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:38.800 Unless you appreciate surveying. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.720 Yeah, there's it's not just a one. 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.240 Of the worst field trips I've ever planned. Your kids 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.120 were on that trip, well, probably. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:51.280 Here's the baseline. 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.640 So I told Brooks. We we cited this book and uh, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.640 and I'm making it a point to talk a little 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.040 bit about my book on occasion just prime in the audience. 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.520 But we we we talked about Arkansas as the bear 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.160 state in my book. That's coming out in February. So 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.600 get ready, get ready. 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:13.600 I can't wait. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:14.640 It's gonna be good. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:21.560 Yeah bear, Yes, sir. What's the latest bear grease YouTube 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:22.400 video coming out? 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:23.560 Uh? 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.200 Well, the one that came out last week. 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:30.920 I rafted a big flooded river Ozark River did some 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.360 pretty rough rapids and. 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:36.160 Got left behind by your dad. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.320 Left behind, But you need to watch the video to 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:39.160 figure that part out. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.160 I didn't know that until I watched the video and 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.439 we were watching it in the same room, and I 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.679 that part, I said, because you know, I was supposed to. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:51.880 I don't want to like spoiler alert here, but I 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:53.280 was the one that was supposed to come get you. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.720 And I arranged it with two different men who were 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.920 driving together to and I looked at Clay and I said, 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:00.720 you forgot Bear. 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.120 Hey, it's just a minor part of the film. I 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.400 pulled up and my truck was sure enough not there. Well, 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.960 so Bear was rafting from one location to another, and 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.319 I was supposed to go pick him up. At the end, 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:21.320 brought my truck off and Brooks. It was unbelievable how 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:26.559 nonchalantly this this very important, you know detail was given 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.959 to me. So I do accept responsibility for not picking 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.680 up Bear, but I think we should all share the 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:33.800 load just a little bit. 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:34.600 Well. 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.560 I got the call as I was on my way 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.520 out the door, and I think, really the person who 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.400 he had already floated halfway down the river when he thought, oh. 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.880 You didn't even know. You didn't even arrange the ride 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:48.680 till you were already in the current. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:50.720 This is your fault. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:52.760 This is just like every other thing. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:54.840 My friend Malachi was gonna pick me up because he 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:56.800 was filming. But then I get like a mile down 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.440 the river, which is all we'd plan to do, and 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.199 I was like, I think, I think I need to 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:03.120 float some more rivers. 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.120 So Malacha, you don't need to pick me up anymore. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.320 Until he calls me and I'm walking out the door. 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.559 I figured it out one way, see, and I knew 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.040 you'd figured it out. Yeah, Like when I heard I 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.240 need to pick up bear, I was like, I'll probably 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:15.920 pick bear up. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:18.560 Man. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.720 Listen, listen, don't pick the bear is being fueled by 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:29.240 this kind of energy. Me and Chris Roberts in two 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.199 nineteen ninety nine, the spring of nineteen ninety nine, One 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:38.080 day we drive across Briar Creek swollen from a flash flood. 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.640 Briar Creek, you know, you could have waited across it 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.920 and hardly got your feet wet, but in a flash flood, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.920 it just stormed up. We see that. I call Chris 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.520 on the landline no cell phones, and I say, hey, 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.200 come to the house. We're floating Briar Creek, and he's like, 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.600 I'll be there in ten minutes. He comes over. In 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.640 nineteen ninety four cavalier. He drives to my house. 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.360 Brother had a ninety four cavalier. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.480 Yeah, so we get the canoe we call Old Glory. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.720 That was a Washtaw River guide canoe that had cracks 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.160 in it and leaked just a little bit. We put 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:15.920 it in the bridge at Briar Creek and we told 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:22.760 Juju Nukem, we're gonna call you from somewhere this afternoon. Yeah, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.720 we don't know where, we don't know who. We didn't 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.840 have cell phones. We're just gonna call you when we 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.280 decide that we floated far enough. And we set off 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.040 in the river. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.640 And people are crossing the bridges, like trucks are parked 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.400 at the bridges, not crossing it, and they're seeing them 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.079 and they're begging them, do not. 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:47.920 Go excuse me? The the Uh yeah, it's it's all 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.720 big story. I actually told this story on Meat Eater 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.760 Camp for our stories because we ended up almost dying 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.240 and uh. But the point is I knew Bear would be. 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.640 Ok because he has access to a cell phone. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.920 Well, we got out of the river after we lost 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:05.480 the canoe. Oh which. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.319 Underwater snake I mean yeah, I. 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.920 Mean I could go into the details, but there was 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.880 the nearest death experience I've ever had in my life, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:22.240 for no joke, no no meta, no exaggeration. And but 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.120 we climbed out of the river. It became where we 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.520 briar meets prairie and then turns into a really big creek. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.000 And we walked to one of our old teachers houses 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.600 like half a mile, knocked on the door. It's like, hey, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:36.720 can we use your phone? 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:37.400 Sure? 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.320 Called Juju Anyway, that's the way it is. So I 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:42.440 knew Bear would be okay. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.480 I love this story because you're saying I knew Bear 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.400 would be okay because I had a similar near death experience. 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.960 And that's the same energy bear question. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.000 Whenever you canoe, you got sucked under a log? Wasn't 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.480 that what happened? Yes, that we went floating the day 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.880 after I hit that big river and that happened to 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:07.200 one of my buddies, and it just like crumbled the kayak. Yeah, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.480 And it was not like the flows were not that high, 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.560 Like I didn't feel that dangerous at all. But he 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:14.920 went up to just logging and just sucked it under. 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.360 Did it tear the kayak up? Yeah? Well, we were 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.960 able to like pull the dents out and finish the float? 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.680 Was that my kayak? No, you don't have a kayak, that's. 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.800 My it's in his junk pile. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:32.200 So oh glory, never never, never floated again. 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:40.680 She's still Gary Nukomes backyard. Still yep, yep. Well we're 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:47.720 here today because we're discussing the Civil War. It's very serious. 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.040 So drop the energy, guys. Okay, let's quit having fun. 0:15:52.480 --> 0:16:00.640 Right for the professor here, Yeah, it's time for the 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.840 doctor blevins. Do you are you? What's your reputation amongst 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.640 the student body there at Missouri State? Well, I know 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:12.920 you're not supposed to talk about yourself, but you. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.160 Have a rate my professor score, I guess I do. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.840 I've never looked, well, I've never looked. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.240 No professors should never look at rape my professors, and 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.720 no one should ever look at comments and news articles 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.880 that have been written about them like those are just 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:28.280 rules that I live by. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:29.840 I've never looked. 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.760 And you know the thing is, we've got I think 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:38.720 around twenty six thousand students and I have probably fewer 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.720 than one hundred per year. So whatever my reputation is, 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.360 it's not very widespread. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:52.040 I can assure you of that. Now. I'm the guy. 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:58.560 I'm the history professor who insists on using good grammar 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:04.960 in your papers. So I probably am not terribly appreciated by, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.040 you know, some of the students who get in there 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.080 and realize they've got an English a history professor and 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.800 an English professor that class. 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:15.359 So I respect that. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:17.880 What classes will you teach next year? 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:19.919 Let's see. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:25.439 In the I'm teaching my my undergraduate Ozark history class, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.240 which I do almost every year, but not quite every year, 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:36.080 I'll teach a class on the history of American religious history, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.960 the history of religion in America, and I'll do a 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:45.320 regular US history class. And uh, I think I'm doing 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.600 my intro to Ozark's Studies class, which we have a 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.840 We have a minor in Ozark's Studies Missouri really and 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.960 the University of Arkansas is starting their minor in Ozark 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:01.240 Studies this fall, so that'll be too. Schools, Missouri State 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.320 and the u of A both have that minor, and 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:05.640 that's our sort of. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.240 Gateway course. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:11.879 We just do a little bit of everything in that class, 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.480 and it's it's meant to be kind of a fun 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.200 of course, and hopefully it is for most of the students, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.119 but yeah, most of the stuff I usually do has 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.840 to do with the Ozarks. But I I've never had 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.840 a class on the Ozarks in my life, so you know, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.280 I do know right, well I don't know that, but 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.040 I but you know, all my academic background is in 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.720 other regular US history stuff. So yeah, it's just kind 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.760 of a it's been a it's been a fun thing 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.480 to be able to create, help create something a little 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.640 new kind of sub field, and teach. 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.359 A lot of classes about it. Yeah. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:59.000 Yeah, Now you have a you have a podcast inside 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:03.040 of the Ozark podcasts. So there's a podcast with some 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:07.120 of our friends Kyle and Kyle that are that's called 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.240 the Ozark Podcast and they do a lot of hunting 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:13.439 fish and stuff and just Ozark outdoors stuff. You have 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.440 your own podcast, tell us tell me about that. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:23.040 Yeah, it's called The Old Ozarks and it's just more 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:29.200 or less little vignettes of Ozark's history. And we did 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.520 a first season last year in twenty twenty five of 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.480 a dozen episodes, and we're going to do a dozen 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.800 more this year starting next month July of twenty six. 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.120 And they're just. 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.359 Things that usually what I try to do is, you know, 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.280 I wrote a trilogy on the History of the Ozarks 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:52.960 that came out a few years ago. 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.400 And as as. 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.320 You know, having just recently finished a book, leave a 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.239 lot more stuff on the cutting room floor than you 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.760 ever use in a book, do you know, You use 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.960 just a small percentage of stuff. And so I try 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.800 to use a lot of stuff that I've done research 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.040 on in the past and make little stories out of that, 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.800 but I usually end up doing some new research on 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:21.480 all this stuff and just trying to do I I'd 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.480 usually try to do a couple that have to do 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.879 with hunting and fishing, because I know that's kind of 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.080 the built in audience that the Ozark podcast has, but 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:38.560 most of them aren't geared specifically for outdoors stuff. You know, 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.280 I'll do the one I just got through writing that 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.640 I haven't recorded yet is is a basically the story 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:51.159 of Albert Brumley, who is the probably the most famous 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:57.119 gospel music composer in history, and he wrote almost all 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:02.040 of his songs here in the Ozarks, up in McDonald County, Missouri, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.600 little little place just across the state line. And and 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.480 I'll Fly Away the most. 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.000 Favorite I think I've seen his name on a yeah. 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.159 Yeah, And and it just just a little. You know, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.760 it'd just be things like that, things that are related 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.320 to the region that people might not know about, or 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.280 they probably heard about, they may just not have associated 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:25.879 them with Arkansas or Missouri or Oklahoma. 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:32.760 Interesting. So the Old Ozarks by doctor Brooks Lemings. You 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.680 can look it up on the Ozark. It's on their feed, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.399 like you'd go to the Ozark podcast feed. Yeah, starting 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.200 in July, they will find those. 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.440 It's tucked in there. If I think, we did them 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.000 every Friday last year, and I guess they'll probably do 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.320 that again this year, you know, every I should say 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.080 every other Friday once once we started the season. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:59.399 Yeah, yeah, okay, good, good, good good. 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:02.000 Well. 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.480 So if you're if you're new to the bear Gase 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.200 Render podcast, what we do on these is we talk 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:16.199 about the actual documentary style Bear Grease podcast from the 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:21.160 week before. So we're three deep, We're we're naveled deep 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.879 in the in the water of the Civil War and uh, 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:31.280 this third episode was called The Scalped Soldiers and Why 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.560 They Fought, which was, uh, it was a good name, 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.600 but we really weren't talking exactly about why the Scalped 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:40.480 Soldiers fought. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:42.040 Yeah, it could be a little confusing. 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:47.120 Yeah, it was a little hollywooded up by my producer, Uh, 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.600 you know, to keep the people have been the scalp soldiers, 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:58.880 semi colon why people fought in the Civil War. I mean, 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:00.840 it wouldn't have worked as a tie. I'm not saying 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.879 that I've wanted to bring this up with you because 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.960 I was you know, titles. 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:08.720 You weren't mad, you were just disappointed. 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.960 No, but we are meant to convey meaning, not to 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:18.680 not to relate precise facts, remember exactly. 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:20.640 Yeah, so it's fine. 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:21.840 Yeah, it was good. It was good. 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:22.439 No, thank you. 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:25.919 But the whole the whole premise of the episode was 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.680 kind of exploring why people fought in the Civil War, 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:33.160 and and and you know, none of these have been 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:38.800 exhaustive in detail or or in research, but they're they're 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.960 they've been interesting to me because on this episode JD 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:48.560 brings up my family's history in the Civil War, which 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:50.280 was really cool. 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:52.480 That was a shocker, like we weren't I was in 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:57.920 here when you guys were recording, and we weren't expecting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:23:58.080 --> 0:23:59.760 I've got a real sly about it too. 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:01.439 Do you know anything about your history? 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.200 Oh, he's he just set me up. Well, yeah, yeah, 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.399 what if I what if I what if I just 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.520 made something up and it'd have been like, that's not 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:28.399 what I found out. Uh, But so I just opened 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.639 up the floor to who who would who would like 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.320 to just give your commentary on the episode? Bear, maybe 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:36.920 I'll pick you. 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:38.680 Well that's not really opening. 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.240 But it's a good entry point. So you're a great 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:47.800 great great great grandfather yep, Thomas James newkem oh Man. 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:48.960 That's your history too. 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:52.600 Now, okay, you just figure that out, just just connected. 0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:00.159 What what's that mean to you? Pretty much? Nothing? It 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:02.480 was interesting. I didn't know that. 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.919 Yeah, but it didn't really surprise me that much because 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:09.520 it does seem like, I mean, it just seems like 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.800 as wars are fought, young men fight in the wars, 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:16.200 and like you said, it just like kind of your 0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:21.119 place in space and time really determines your life. In 0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:23.879 his place in space and time was he was twenty 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:27.440 four during the Civil War, so he was in it, 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.040 and so I wasn't terribly surprised. And he lived in Arkansas, 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.080 which I didn't know that. But yeah, I thought it 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:40.119 was a pretty pretty interesting episode. One thing that did 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:45.520 really surprise me was the part about Native Americans having slaves, 0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.800 that part I would have never I would have never known. 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:55.560 So I thought that that was definitely not something I expected, 0:25:56.280 --> 0:26:00.800 and kind of I don't know, that really stuck out 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:03.040 to me because it was just I like the way 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.880 Jad said it. Usually like we try to categorize things 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:09.720 into the oppressed and the oppressors, but then when you 0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:13.719 have the oppressed oppressing the oppressed, you just have a 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:17.439 complex human or just a human that is complex like 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:19.840 every human. And it just kind of goes back to 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:21.720 what we've been talking about this whole series, is that 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:24.760 things aren't always understood at a glance. 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:31.760 Mm hmmm. Do you think I was fair in my 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:37.120 assessment of thinking about the reasons Thomas J. NUKM would 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.439 have fought in the Civil War. I mean, I'm not 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:44.520 looking to like stir up controversy, but you could somebody 0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:47.320 could say, Clay, You're you're casting a lot of shade 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:52.440 on your you know, ancestor that fought in the war. 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:55.199 I mean, and I wasn't really trying to do that, 0:26:55.240 --> 0:26:57.800 but I just I guess I could hear a voice 0:26:57.840 --> 0:26:59.760 saying that, because I was like, I don't think he 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:02.679 had I don't think he had slaves. I don't know that, 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:06.639 but I would say with almost certainty he did not. 0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:09.520 Has he lived in the Washington's right, he did? 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:13.560 Yeah, and just they just didn't have a lot of 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:20.600 money anyway, any any thoughts on that bear? 0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:23.320 But what was the exact question? Was it unjust the 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:25.520 way that you described it? 0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:28.240 Oh, just just like I think a lot of people 0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:35.879 want to justify maybe the actions of their ancestors, or I. 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:37.320 Think you have some thoughts about this. 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.159 Well, I was just I just the whole thing was like, 0:27:41.200 --> 0:27:43.240 why do people fought? And I don't know why Thomas 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:47.040 James Nukom fought. I assumed it was just like civic duty. 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:48.040 Do you think that's fair? 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:49.520 Yeah? I thought you were fair. 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:51.840 I mean I thought like I think you were saying, Hey, 0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:53.960 there's just because of the place that he was from. 0:27:54.400 --> 0:27:56.560 I kind of doubt some of this stuff. But there's 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.880 a there's a book called Generations, and it's also by 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:04.280 a lady. I think her first name is Genie as well. Anyway, 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.040 But the biggest predictor of what people believe is the 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.320 generation they're born in. So we like to think that 0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:12.200 our family and our values and all sorts of things 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:16.560 shape what we believe. But like Bear's generation is likely 0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:21.239 to believe stuff that his grandparents don't believe, or you know, 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:24.240 perceive things as okay or I'm not saying you should. 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:27.320 I'm just saying it is. It is you're more likely to. 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:30.639 And I think that there's a level of that inside 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:32.760 of all of this, Like there is some part of 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:38.880 this where you know, whether you were born in Pennsylvania 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:41.960 or you were born in Georgia would have made a 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:44.440 huge difference in what you thought about the institution of 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:46.840 slavery and about in which side you fought on in 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:48.680 the Civil War. I mean, there's just no way around that. 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:52.640 And I think that you were, you know, for a 0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:54.440 gotcha journalist like JD. 0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:59.040 Just I'm just kidding. I thought you. 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:01.760 I thought it was it fit the way you you've 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:04.520 approached the whole thing. Would just I've just got questions 0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:05.520 and I'm trying to understand. 0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:09.520 Earlier today, Brooks, we were talking about how the different 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:14.600 generations have looked at the Civil War, and I think 0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:21.360 you said that like today's generations would be maybe less 0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:28.400 interested in or less how did we say, excuse me, 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:36.120 there would be less like Bear saying maybe this doesn't 0:29:36.160 --> 0:29:38.000 mean that much to him that his ancestor fought in 0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:40.160 the ward. I don't know, would that be characteristic of 0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:41.600 this generation maybe? 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:47.040 I think so. You know, I've I've been teaching long 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:51.719 enough now to have you know, encountered really truly different 0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:56.160 generations in the classroom. And I think, just from my 0:29:56.160 --> 0:30:00.080 my own personal experience, again with my limited number of 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.840 of students that that I encounter, I think there probably 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:12.040 is less investment in Civil War history now than there 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:15.560 would have been twenty you know, back in the late 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:19.200 nineties when I started teaching. I think there's probably maybe 0:30:19.240 --> 0:30:25.680 even less knowledge about what happened, less interest in it. Again, 0:30:25.720 --> 0:30:29.800 I think that the Civil War still occupies a place 0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:31.960 of real importance for a lot of people in the 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:35.840 United States. But I don't get the sense that that, 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:42.200 especially young men are in the South, are growing up, 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.240 you know, with that same sort of passion for studying 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:49.120 the Civil War that you talked about having, and you know, 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:53.000 talking about with your friends, and that I had as 0:30:53.040 --> 0:30:53.560 a kid. 0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:54.880 And I think a lot. 0:30:54.760 --> 0:30:58.040 Of this is, as you know, we've talked about, it's 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:01.280 just getting farther and farther away from the event that 0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:05.280 you know, those memories received, and you know, for good 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:08.320 and bad, they they don't mean as much. They're not 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:14.600 as yeah as reletive. I mean, I I was, I 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:19.240 was born long enough ago that I still well remember 0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:24.360 several people who were born in the nineteenth century. And 0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:28.320 you know, these were folks who were may have been 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:33.720 the children or that most grandchildren of Civil War veterans 0:31:33.720 --> 0:31:36.560 and people who lived through the Civil War. So so 0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:39.440 as a kid, you know, fifty years ago I was, 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:41.600 I was closer to this, So it would only make 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.760 sense that that it would mean a little bit more 0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.680 and that it would be part more part of, you know, 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:49.960 the environment that I grew up in than it would 0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:52.320 be for for somebody bears age. 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.640 And also whenever I say it doesn't mean anything to me, 0:31:57.280 --> 0:32:00.400 Like I think it's interesting, but I I think a 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.240 lot of people would like hear that their great great 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:07.320 great grandfather fought for the Confederacy and like feel some 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.200 sort of guilt about it. That's what I meant, Like 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:13.640 it doesn't like I feel no real connection to that. 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:15.600 Like I feel like a lot of people feel guilt 0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:19.240 for what their ancestors might have done people before them, 0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.720 But I don't personally feel connected to that at all. 0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:29.200 Yeah, probably probably both ways, either guilt or identity from that. 0:32:29.800 --> 0:32:33.480 Do you feel like do you feel like, you know, 0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:36.880 we were talking about this the other day, my ancestors 0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:41.680 came to the United States after the Civil War. Do 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.360 you feel like you're more inclined to be interested in 0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:49.080 studying that knowing that you're a seventh generation ar Kanson. 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:52.000 Well, I mean it came out that I didn't really 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:55.080 know the details. I did know that they fought in 0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:57.440 the Civil War for the Confederacy. That was just like 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:00.840 right general the state the one cent Thans that I knew, 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:03.040 but it obviously didn't mean enough for me to go 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.200 right look it up. I mean I tried a couple 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:09.000 of times, but so I don't I don't know but 0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:14.480 it But I think what what we talked about earlier 0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:18.720 today was that you know, where you're from does kind 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:23.080 of dictate your interest A lot of times it feels like, 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:23.600 I mean. 0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:28.360 You know that it was discussed with JD about do 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.760 you think there were Northerners that that still talk about 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:34.000 their ancestors and the war and that kind of stuff. 0:33:34.440 --> 0:33:37.280 You know, I've got lots of family from from up North, 0:33:37.320 --> 0:33:40.840 and I've never heard anybody talk about about the Civil 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:42.760 War when I've been up there, you know, even people 0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:46.680 who had who are from that that area generations back. 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:48.440 I feel like that's much stronger in the South. 0:33:49.320 --> 0:33:52.920 Well, the war was fought here, right, That's part of it, right, 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:57.880 is that we're reminded of I'm reminded of it basically daily. 0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:01.320 Driving into Fable, Arkansas, there's sign that says Prairie Grove 0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:05.400 Civil National Battlefield or something. I mean, and I mean 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:07.400 it's kind of subconscious. You see the sign, you don't 0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.799 even think about it. But but it's like there's memorials 0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:12.240 to the war all over. 0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:14.760 The place, which in itself, I mean, if you step 0:34:14.800 --> 0:34:16.799 back and look at it in the context of the 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:19.320 US history, that is odd. 0:34:19.880 --> 0:34:22.839 You know, that is that's unusual. Why do you say 0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:26.319 that you'd have Confederate Confederate. 0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:28.600 I think around here, well, around the South, I think 0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:29.160 you would have. 0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:31.880 You would have a lot of or there. 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:33.239 Used to be. I feel like a lot of that 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:34.240 stuff is fading. 0:34:34.520 --> 0:34:36.640 Yeah, yeah, but there's still battle. 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:38.880 I'm saying about our childhood and things like that, there 0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:42.919 would be there's battlefield parks, But then there's also there's 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:47.360 I think that there's a lot of symbolism. That's especially 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:49.839 when we were growing up. I don't think Bear has 0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:51.359 seen as much of it. Like I kind of grilled 0:34:51.440 --> 0:34:54.200 them after Clay. It kind of made me question, Like, 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:57.799 I wonder because I completely understood what Clay was saying 0:34:57.840 --> 0:35:01.359 on the first podcast, because I I grew up. 0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:01.920 In the same. 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:06.520 Area, in the same mindset, And I asked Baron, it 0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:09.279 was obvious to me we did not bring that into 0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:10.759 that was not past that I. 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:14.200 Was quite on purpose. Yeah, I mean, I feel like 0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:16.640 the influence that I had growing up could have been 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:19.759 really negative. I think it was negative for a lot 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:24.080 of my friends, just a just a irrelevant identity to 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:29.600 something that would ultimately lead to a bunch of stuff. 0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:33.239 And so to me it just became really interesting. And 0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:36.720 so when I hear about my ancestor, Thomas J. Newcomb, 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:39.880 it's not interesting because I have some like pride that 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:41.880 he fought in the Confederacy or something. I mean, like 0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:44.600 when you see what this was all about, it's like, man, 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.040 this this is not great the way this aw went down, 0:35:48.600 --> 0:35:52.359 But I still am it's very interesting to me just 0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:55.279 in that this guy has my same last name, what 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:59.600 he went through what he would have saw, and you know, 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:04.000 so that that's to me why it's. 0:36:03.800 --> 0:36:07.759 Interesting, you know, yeah, and I do think it's kind 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:11.880 it is interesting to see where your ancestors came from, 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:15.360 because you kind of see how that shaped your life. 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:21.120 Like a few years ago, my uncle your brother, showed 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:26.040 a video of Leu and Newcombe talking about his life 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:29.399 story and how he moved to California and then got 0:36:29.400 --> 0:36:31.680 saved and moved back to Arkansas. And I just thought 0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:33.680 about how different my life would have been if he 0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:37.560 didn't find God in California moved back to Arkansas and 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:41.640 he stayed in California, Like, my life would be radically different. 0:36:42.320 --> 0:36:44.400 And so it is kind of interesting to hear about 0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:50.200 Thomas Newcomb potentially eating mule meat and rats there at 0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:54.439 the war. It's just kind of interesting to think about 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:56.920 that stuff and how it shave my life. 0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:59.120 Way down the line. You don't really know, it's hard 0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:02.280 to predict that pack to that, but Lewin nukemb my grandfather, 0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:04.799 your great grandfather, such a and that's what I said 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:09.840 on the episode, Uh, you know, like how really recently 0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:14.480 this was like his great grandfather, who you know, I 0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:18.279 went to. I said it lown Newcomb used to take 0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:23.040 me to Robert Newcomb's old home place. Thomas J. Neuwkelem 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:26.600 was Robert Newcomb's dad. His dad fought in the Civil War, 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:30.560 so Lewin k Newkelemb was heavily influenced by a man 0:37:30.600 --> 0:37:33.520 whose father fought in the Civil War. And you don't 0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:38.640 know what that no, no, but loun Nukemb also had 0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:42.600 a bronze star from World War Two from shooting down 0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:45.799 Japanese planes that he never told us. We never knew 0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:48.799 until after he died. Yeah, wild, I mean, so like 0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:52.800 these guys weren't interested that this wasn't I guarantee you. 0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:57.360 Most of those guys had no I guarantee you. Thomas J. 0:37:57.520 --> 0:38:00.959 Neukelem was like I bet he never breathe the word 0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:02.959 of the Civil War most the rest of his life. 0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:04.719 I just have a feeling like they were just like, 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:08.279 I mean, my dad's the same way. My dad was 0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:11.920 in Vietnam for a couple of years. That's the last 0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.120 thing he wants to talk about. Yeah, I mean, I 0:38:14.160 --> 0:38:16.080 have price stuff out of him. But I mean, you know, 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:19.640 a couple of generations later, it seems really interesting and cool, 0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:22.080 and you want people to talk about it. But I 0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:23.680 mean most of those guys when they got out of 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:26.279 the war, they were like, that is not what we're 0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:28.520 going to talk about today, but. 0:38:28.880 --> 0:38:32.879 Which I respect, you know what I mean, there are 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:37.280 guys that there are guys who spent time in wars 0:38:37.360 --> 0:38:39.960 who that's all they want to talk about because that's 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.320 where they draw their identity from. And to me, it 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:44.799 shows just a level of maturity that that's not the 0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:47.919 thing that you pull your identity from, but really it's 0:38:47.920 --> 0:38:49.239 the way you live that well. 0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:52.000 And there's different levels of engagement. Gary Neukom would be 0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:53.200 the first to tell you that he was in the 0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:55.920 post office in Vietnam. R. That's different than being a 0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:59.280 Navy seal that went in and killed Osama Bin Laden. 0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:05.360 Not to bring up Ben Lauden, but uh, but you know, 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:09.720 I mean, like that guy is probably different than most 0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:12.440 people in the military. So not to say that you 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:15.359 can't you know anybody that takes right. 0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:17.880 Yeah, I'm not trying to say that if you discuss 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:21.600 that you're immature, but I think just allowing your life 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:25.000 to have to find meaning in your life, and sometimes 0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:29.080 that meaning is what you sacrificed inside of that. But 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:32.320 you know, there's lots of sacrifices that happened off the 0:39:32.360 --> 0:39:35.879 battlefield that really I really define who people are. 0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:40.040 Brooks, What do you think about people like the way 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:45.040 any commentary on just what we're discussing, like how stuff 0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:48.719 is maybe not talked about, or how people handle their 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:51.320 history with this stuff. 0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:52.960 You know, one of the. 0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:59.120 One of the things that's happened in Civil War history 0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:03.160 is that, you know, we we spent so many years 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:09.040 writing stories about battles and you know, generals and all 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:12.000 that kind of stuff, writing kind of the big obvious stuff, 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.360 and a lot of the military history is that the 0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:18.520 way the the academic world works is you know, when 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.440 you get you get a you're working on a PhD. 0:40:21.600 --> 0:40:23.920 You've got to write a dissertation and you've got it. 0:40:24.000 --> 0:40:25.719 It's got to be new research. It's got to be 0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:31.360 something new or a reinterpretation of something else. And so 0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:38.360 I've noticed in the last several years that that probably 0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:41.880 even more popular than writing civil war history is writing 0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:46.040 about the way we remember Civil War history. Now now 0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:51.279 scholars write entire books about how the US and how 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:56.560 specific populations within the United States remembers the Civil War. 0:40:57.719 --> 0:40:59.960 I don't I don't know that it's that they've run 0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:02.600 out of stuff, you know, to write about the actual 0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:05.359 Civil War. But but it is, you know, it's it's 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:08.920 far enough. We're more than a century and a half 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:13.919 separated from that event now, and so the way we 0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:19.480 remember it has changed over years, and it's even changed 0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:21.279 in the South. You know, you don't have to go 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:25.240 back too many years when groups like the United Daughters 0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:29.600 of the Confederacy and the Sons of the Confederacy and 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:33.480 groups like that kind of dominated the rhetoric around how 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:37.480 we remember the Civil War and sort of a celebratory 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:40.799 kind of thing and the Lost Cause, and you know 0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:44.120 that that sort of thing, uh, and you know, we 0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:47.000 don't we don't really do that anymore. There are still 0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:52.080 people who who probably have those ideas about what the 0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:54.360 Civil War means to them, but it's it's one of 0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:59.240 those things that it's become less less acceptable, I guess 0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:01.560 to you know, to talk about that in a public 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.160 forum and to celebrate. 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:05.480 When was the climax of that? 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:08.879 And can you explain a little bit about what that is? 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:10.720 Like the Lost Cause? I think that that's a really 0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:13.480 that's something that my brother getting. 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.400 Into that in later episodes gotch no no, it's okay 0:42:16.440 --> 0:42:18.360 if we say it, though we've already talked about it. 0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:21.080 Because we're talking about it, people might not be able 0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:22.160 to articulate what that is. 0:42:22.800 --> 0:42:27.000 Yeah, that's uh in the South, and it doesn't pop 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:29.600 up immediately, but about a generation or so after the 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:33.200 end of the Civil War, you have the rise of 0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:38.520 sort of the the celebration of this cause that has 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:41.920 that has failed, the lost cause of the South. You know, 0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:45.960 it's it's it's wrapped up around ideas of, you know, 0:42:46.000 --> 0:42:50.000 our love for the underdog. The South was certainly outnumbered 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:52.120 and out supplied and all that kind of stuff. So 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:54.760 part of it's kind of an underdog story. But also 0:42:54.800 --> 0:43:01.400 it's this idea that that Southerners rationalize their roles in 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:06.200 the war, told themselves as a kind of a balm, 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:09.600 you know, to ease the pain of suffering this defeat, 0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:15.319 that that that theirs was really a righteous cause, that 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:21.440 they were, that they were morally superior to the to 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:24.560 the North in this in this cause that they were fighting, 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:29.520 and that it was only because there were you know, 0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:32.759 almost three times as many Northerners as there were Southerners, 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:35.640 and they had more material and all that more money 0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:37.279 and all that kind of stuff that the that the 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:41.480 South lost and so that uh, and that really takes 0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:44.000 root in the eighteen nineties and early nineteen hundreds. 0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:45.440 Around the same. 0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:52.600 Time that that you're you know, starting to see racial 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:57.080 violence rack parts of the United States and the lynchings 0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.520 and things like that. I mean, it's all you know, 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:01.719 there is a it's kind of a yeah, it's a 0:44:02.680 --> 0:44:05.440 kind of a combo thing. And and that's when you 0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:08.279 start to see groups like the United Daughters of the 0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:11.400 Confederacy and the Sons of the Confederacy and these and 0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:15.399 that's when you really start to see these big reunions 0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:19.839 of Confederate veterans and Union veterans do this too, and 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.359 and and the Union on the Union side, you had 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:26.360 your bloody shirt patriotism as historians call it, and the 0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:29.560 kind of rate, you know, waving the bloody flag and 0:44:30.560 --> 0:44:33.160 elections and so all this stuff is going on, and 0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:37.399 it's a it's kind of a first they're they're far 0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:39.520 enough away from the Civil War by the end of 0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:42.840 the nineteenth century to sort of look back and start 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:47.600 remembering things, and you know, it's not that immediate. And 0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:50.319 and that's how these narratives get started. About what the 0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:53.799 war was about. And so people in the North have 0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:56.280 have their idea about what the war was about. People 0:44:56.280 --> 0:45:01.239 in the South, many of them, especially confess and their descendants, 0:45:01.320 --> 0:45:04.839 have their ideas of what the war was about. And 0:45:04.880 --> 0:45:08.000 that and that continues. That's, you know, that's the beginning 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:13.600 of Confederate monuments. Those though, those will you know, there's 0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:18.000 another flurry of monument building that happens during the Civil 0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:23.719 Rights movement, which is more a sort of you know, 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:28.000 direct kind of in your face. We're you know, we're 0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:30.759 not we're not putting up with this and and we're 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:35.520 going to kind of reinforce our our you know, supremacy 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:41.200 here by you know, recognizing our Confederate ancestors. But so 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:45.560 so that the whole idea of how we remember, how 0:45:45.640 --> 0:45:49.359 we craft the narrative of the Civil War, and how 0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:52.480 we've been doing that, you know, for one hundred and 0:45:52.600 --> 0:45:56.320 twenty or one hundred and thirty years, is it's pretty fascinating. 0:45:56.360 --> 0:45:59.640 And we're, i mean, we're part of that right now. 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.480 I mean we're setting around one hundred and sixty something 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.279 years after the Civil War talking about the Civil War. 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:11.239 So I mean we're we're participating in that and you know, 0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:16.600 maybe maybe we'll become part of somebody's research out there, 0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:21.239 if a sociologist is researching or Civil War memory. And 0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:23.080 you know, it's still it's still going on, and so 0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:28.600 it still means something, but it almost certainly means something 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:34.520 different because of that whole that whole concept you were 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:38.319 talking about with the generations that you know, these generations 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:39.480 see it in a different way. 0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:40.200 And I think. 0:46:40.360 --> 0:46:49.879 Bears generation has probably and hopefully not inherited as many 0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:54.920 of the negative things that can come up with you know, 0:46:55.000 --> 0:46:58.160 celebrating the Civil War and remembering the Civil War as 0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:03.080 as people from you know, from our age. I realize 0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:05.440 I'm quite a bit older than you guys, but you 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:08.640 know that from my age and from your age. Uh, 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:10.840 and a lot of that is just you know, every 0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:13.840 the farther you get away from that, the more, I 0:47:14.440 --> 0:47:20.440 should say, probably the the less racist we become as 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.359 a society. You know, the less the les the less 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:26.520 we passed that on down to succeeding. So it gets 0:47:26.719 --> 0:47:30.000 it gets deluded. You know, you kind of hope it 0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:32.640 doesn't necessarily have to work that way, but you hope 0:47:33.080 --> 0:47:39.080 that the more racist, you know, Confederate celebration part of 0:47:39.120 --> 0:47:43.879 that gets deluded every generation. And that's coming from I mean, 0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:46.279 I'm a guy who most most of my ancestors who 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:50.680 fought in the Civil War were Confederates, and I don't 0:47:50.960 --> 0:47:54.240 And like I was telling Clay earlier, when I started 0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:58.000 reading about the Civil War in high school, I was 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:00.759 pulling for the South, you know, as a as a 0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:05.600 as a white kid from Arkansas, I find myself, you know, 0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:08.520 well this would have happened at Shallow we would have won. 0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:11.680 You know, when the wei was for me was was 0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:12.240 the South. 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:17.759 So uh, you know, I I I understand that, you 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:22.279 know that motivation? Uh, And I and I and and 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:25.440 I also understand why how you can look back like 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:28.000 Barrick and look back and you don't have to be 0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:30.960 I don't think you have to be ashamed of your 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:34.239 ancestors because they grew up in a completely different time 0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:38.480 that we can't understand. I mean, we weren't from that generation, 0:48:39.040 --> 0:48:42.240 and they were inculcated with certain ideas and taught certain 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:47.800 things that that we weren't taught. And uh, and we're 0:48:48.200 --> 0:48:55.279 you know, we're so often trapped in whatever whatever our 0:48:55.320 --> 0:48:58.680 generation is. It's it's hard to it's hard to get 0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:03.400 beyond that, and and to expect our ancestors to have 0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:08.879 made decisions that we probably wouldn't have made either had 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:12.200 we been raised the same way they were. That's that's 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:15.320 a little much. What I what I prefer to focus 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:18.800 on is is the ones who who kind of stepped 0:49:18.840 --> 0:49:22.640 outside of the rare, ones who stepped outside of their 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:27.480 worlds and and made decisions that now seem kind of 0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:32.440 heroic and unusual to us. And most of us living 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:34.799 today aren't going to make those decisions in our own 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:35.479 day and time. 0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:37.680 We're gonna sort. 0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:41.840 Of fall in lockstep and uh and do what do 0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:45.920 what most other people do? So uh, the whole that 0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:49.480 whole idea of remembering the Civil Wars, it's a complex thing, 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:53.040 and it's a it's a it's almost as important I 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:56.280 think the Civil War historians now as the actual war itself. 0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:59.439 Just how we remember it. The war is only four years. 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:02.560 We've been re rememering that thing for a lot longer 0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:03.240 than that. 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.400 This connects to something Misty and I've been talking about 0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:22.719 about how human communication are, well, how how would I 0:50:22.760 --> 0:50:23.239 describe it? 0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:26.240 Are you talking about just how we are so example 0:50:27.080 --> 0:50:30.720 that the cultural influence that are. 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:37.160 Yes, yes, that. But but basically of how it's important, 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:41.760 it's as important how we remember something is equally important 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:44.279 to actually what happened, and it may even be more 0:50:44.320 --> 0:50:48.320 important how we remember it. And and I was speaking 0:50:48.360 --> 0:50:51.120 with a guy the other day, interview a guest, and 0:50:51.200 --> 0:50:55.040 I told him that the Barry Lopez's book about the Inuit, 0:50:55.800 --> 0:50:58.600 he described how the Inuit, when they drew maps, they 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:02.879 would make the topographic features that were important to them 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:06.319 for hunting much bigger than they actually were. And he 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:10.440 described how he said, oh, yeah, everybody does that. All 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:14.040 the people that drew maps kind of in the old 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:18.479 world did that. And he said, yeah, we now think 0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:23.120 about a map as a factual piece of information. Does 0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:28.120 it actually reflect the actual geography of that place? And 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:31.279 the facts are really important, But the idea of a 0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:34.320 map was actually to convey who cares if the map 0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:38.319 is factually accurate. I'm a human and I want you 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:41.600 to know where the hunting's good. I want my kids 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:44.560 to know where the hunting's good. And like, so I'm 0:51:44.760 --> 0:51:46.640 what I'm really trying to do by drawing a map 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:49.240 is tell you where the hunting's good so you can survive, 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:53.080 you know. And so they had these maps that weren't 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:57.480 accurate but showed the human emphasis in a certain place. 0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:01.640 And he and he this guy you'll hear him months 0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:06.040 from now. On the episode he talked about how that's 0:52:06.840 --> 0:52:10.600 are it's a pretty powerful way to communicate. But you 0:52:10.600 --> 0:52:13.600 see the connection between like how we think about the 0:52:13.640 --> 0:52:17.520 Civil War versus what actually happened, you know, because the 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:19.319 way we talk about it is. 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:20.880 Actually like a map of history. 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:24.720 It's a it's a mental map, is what you're you're saying, yeah, yeah, 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:28.879 and you're you're because the Earth is round, so any 0:52:28.920 --> 0:52:31.640 map is going to have some assumptions and inaccuracies to 0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:35.319 make it flat, right, And and I mean that that 0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:39.880 is that's kind of a long term historical issue, that 0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:42.640 that that the people who were making maps, I mean 0:52:42.640 --> 0:52:44.480 that you go down a rabbit trail in that. 0:52:45.680 --> 0:52:45.879 Yeah. 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:49.880 But and the point is the way we remember the 0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:53.520 any kind of historical event is actually as important as 0:52:53.560 --> 0:52:56.440 actually what happened, you know, because it means something to us. 0:52:57.120 --> 0:52:59.400 But yeah, I think that it's. 0:53:01.440 --> 0:53:05.120 It's to me, you know, hearing you talk about paps 0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:07.360 and hear Bear talk about it. Just even today, I 0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:13.240 think about I've had conversations with my family. My grandma 0:53:13.760 --> 0:53:16.080 had Alzheimer's and it was one of those things that 0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:19.040 you kind of saw coming like it started, and so 0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:22.520 we wanted to We kind of got into this thing 0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:24.680 of oh, it's really interesting. I learned a lot about 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:26.600 our history. It was actually that same summer that we 0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:29.200 did the Arkansas study and I wanted to find out 0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:30.760 why did our people end up in Arkansas? 0:53:30.800 --> 0:53:33.560 And I went and it wasn't great. 0:53:35.239 --> 0:53:37.440 It was I was like, oh, shoot, were those people 0:53:38.600 --> 0:53:40.759 because they were the destitute, you know, they are the 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:43.799 people that and you hear all these stories and it's like, oh, 0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:47.400 you know, sometimes you hear stories about your family, and 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:49.839 some of those stories are are more recent. You know, 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:53.440 not everyone has the paps who changed their lineage and 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:57.000 shifted the way that things worked in their family. And 0:53:57.040 --> 0:54:01.839 I just think it's what you're describing, that those rare 0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:04.799 heroic people who step outside of their culture and who 0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:09.799 step outside of their experience and do something that heroism. 0:54:10.320 --> 0:54:12.680 Anybody can do that. I mean, anybody can do that 0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:13.440 at any time and. 0:54:13.520 --> 0:54:15.239 Change and has a capacity to do that. 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:16.920 Yeah, anyone has Anyone can do that. 0:54:16.960 --> 0:54:21.719 Anyone can change the the lineage of their future generations 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:24.759 by stepping outside of what is familiar and what is 0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:27.920 cultural and and I think that's that's the power of 0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:30.560 personal transformation. And there were things that I saw on 0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:34.960 my mom as an I was an adult when I 0:54:35.000 --> 0:54:37.080 saw her starting to change things, I was, I mean, 0:54:37.120 --> 0:54:40.120 a young adult, and it was inspirational to me to say, Okay, 0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:42.880 I'm gonna I'm gonna build some different things inside of 0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:45.239 our family. I want, I want to I want to 0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:48.080 do what she's doing. And it changed things about the 0:54:48.120 --> 0:54:50.279 way my kids think, and it changed things about there 0:54:50.760 --> 0:54:52.920 and hopefully they'll take that even further. You know, that's 0:54:52.960 --> 0:54:55.080 the idea that you want your kids to take those 0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:55.880 things even further. 0:54:55.960 --> 0:54:58.200 But I think that's kind of part of the power 0:54:58.239 --> 0:54:58.920 of the story. 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:01.480 If you let it be, there can be a version 0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:05.200 of the story where we're just mad at anyone, uh. 0:55:05.440 --> 0:55:08.200 And and that's where the simple storyline of oppressed and 0:55:08.239 --> 0:55:10.960 oppressors doesn't just is not ever going to work. When 0:55:10.960 --> 0:55:13.640 you're looking at history, it's always so much more complex 0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:16.920 than that. But you know, there that is part of 0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:20.200 the story. And I think sometimes, especially in recent history, 0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:23.360 there's been this trend to just kind of look so 0:55:23.520 --> 0:55:25.759 harshly at the at the past and at people in 0:55:25.800 --> 0:55:30.640 the past, and and that you know, they did things 0:55:30.640 --> 0:55:32.239 wrong and we should say that and we should learn 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:35.200 from that. But I think it's it's really important that 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:37.279 right now, while we can change things, that we also 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:40.359 look at at the familiar and the things that we 0:55:41.560 --> 0:55:43.080 that we need to change, the things that we're not 0:55:43.120 --> 0:55:45.560 proud of in our own in our own life and 0:55:45.600 --> 0:55:48.279 our own lineage, and recognize that we can change. We 0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:51.319 can change things for generations down the down the way, 0:55:51.320 --> 0:55:54.239 And I think that's that's important and valuable, valuable thing. 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:56.120 But it almost always requires you to step out of 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:59.319 what is familiar to you. And that's that's difficult because 0:55:59.320 --> 0:56:02.000 it's very different to not think like everyone around you. 0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:06.000 And so if dysfunction is what's around you, I'm kind 0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:09.440 of going into like a personal growth and development here, 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:12.040 kind of shifting from the Civil War. 0:56:15.160 --> 0:56:17.680 But just hearing Bearraze talk about that made me think 0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:18.040 about that. 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:21.360 Yeah, Josh, what stod out to you? Well, just the 0:56:21.400 --> 0:56:22.600 whole episode. 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:27.799 Yeah, I think it was. You know, honestly, I don't. 0:56:28.000 --> 0:56:30.680 I don't know a lot about the Civil War and 0:56:30.880 --> 0:56:33.560 I didn't until now. I didn't until now, and I've 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:36.080 got you know, I've gotten kind of the shotgun blast 0:56:36.160 --> 0:56:39.319 of the Civil War, and it's like just kind of 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:42.080 tying in with what Misty's saying. You know, we we 0:56:42.160 --> 0:56:44.600 have this phrase we talk about a lot in our 0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:48.680 group of friends. We say a backward glance for forward advance. 0:56:49.280 --> 0:56:52.279 And I think, I think it's been really good for 0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:54.919 me to learn about this. I think you can it's 0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:58.200 easy to just be oblivious and not care, but I 0:56:58.200 --> 0:56:59.840 think we have to care because I think if we 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:03.040 don't know the past, we don't know how to be 0:57:03.040 --> 0:57:07.560 better in the future. So I you know, just just 0:57:08.120 --> 0:57:11.360 looking at at this episode, there were some really interesting 0:57:11.400 --> 0:57:14.440 things in there. I didn't know that that the Native 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:17.800 Americans had slaves. I didn't know that there were I 0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:21.960 didn't know that there were Native American regiments in the Confederacy. 0:57:22.040 --> 0:57:26.440 I mean, that's that's fascinating. I mean, the the cross 0:57:26.480 --> 0:57:30.720 cultural I actually got online and looked up stand Waddie 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:34.320 and just you know, saw his picture and saw you 0:57:34.320 --> 0:57:36.520 know what I mean, thinking about what was the motivation 0:57:37.040 --> 0:57:37.960 of this guy. 0:57:37.880 --> 0:57:39.120 To to fight? 0:57:39.400 --> 0:57:43.200 And uh, yeah, it it really just makes you evaluate, 0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:47.000 you know, people's intentions and people's motives, and you know, 0:57:47.040 --> 0:57:49.480 you try to put yourself in their in their position 0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:52.680 and uh, and then once you do that, you have 0:57:52.720 --> 0:57:56.920 to figure out how to use that to become better. 0:57:57.240 --> 0:57:57.440 You know. 0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:00.200 I guess that is a question, and I'll offer to 0:58:00.240 --> 0:58:06.080 you Brooks, like, what's what's the value inside of talking 0:58:06.120 --> 0:58:08.680 about this? I mean, there's there's part of me sometimes 0:58:08.680 --> 0:58:12.280 when I tell some stories, I have to ask myself that, 0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:15.720 you know, like it is some of this stuff just better, 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:21.080 like completely forgotten? And obviously I don't believe that, but 0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:25.760 sometimes I have a hard time articulating why it's valuable 0:58:25.800 --> 0:58:30.080 to look back and drag up some of this, you know, 0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:35.000 kind of rough history. What do you why is it valuable? 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:43.120 I think specifically when you're talking about the Civil War 0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:45.280 and anything to do with the Civil War, because it 0:58:45.400 --> 0:58:50.440 is so fundamental to American history, it is so central 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:56.760 to our identity still today that somebody's going to be 0:58:56.840 --> 0:59:00.400 talking about it, you know, somebody, somebody's going to bring it. 0:59:00.440 --> 0:59:02.520 Up and and and I think. 0:59:02.480 --> 0:59:09.080 It's crucial that we try to understand it as clearly 0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:11.520 and objectively as we can. 0:59:12.480 --> 0:59:14.320 Now that that's. 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:17.880 Not always possible, and we all bring our own perspectives 0:59:17.960 --> 0:59:24.560 to to everything, and even historians, UH University trained historians. 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:28.600 Their perspectives on the civil word change over generations, and 0:59:28.640 --> 0:59:32.400 they look at different things, look at things in different ways. 0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:35.680 So I think that's part of it is. I mean, 0:59:35.720 --> 0:59:37.720 we're we're going to be talking about this, so we 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:39.440 might as well try to get it right, and we 0:59:39.520 --> 0:59:43.200 might as well try to let people know what really 0:59:43.800 --> 0:59:49.360 happened and and and why why it happened. And I 0:59:49.400 --> 0:59:53.439 think for a for a historian, I know, I guess 0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:56.200 I can only speak for myself. I mean that that 0:59:56.800 --> 1:00:02.919 I have this h this compulsion I guess you would 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:10.160 call it too, to get things as close to exactly right, 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:16.120 exactly factually correct as I possibly can, because I think 1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:21.600 that's that's the only it's the only responsible way you 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:25.720 can you can do history, and and about the only 1:00:25.760 --> 1:00:28.120 way you can do that is to do bottom up 1:00:28.440 --> 1:00:31.520 history and to go back in and and do things 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:34.480 like you've been doing with that Bear book. Is going 1:00:34.520 --> 1:00:39.240 back and doing this research that takes you right back 1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:44.360 to these primary sources and primary documents. That's why history 1:00:44.360 --> 1:00:46.480 professors are always talking about you. You've got to go 1:00:46.560 --> 1:00:48.160 back to the sources. You've got to look at the 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:55.800 primary sources and and and recreate history from from what 1:00:55.840 --> 1:00:59.920 we from what we have, and and that you know, 1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:06.560 that hopefully keeps us from flying off in all different directions, 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:08.760 taking a couple of facts here in a couple of 1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:12.080 facts there, and making these big sweeping generalizations about things 1:01:12.120 --> 1:01:16.400 that may not actually have happened. And of course people 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:18.000 are going to do that. It's just a word. 1:01:18.080 --> 1:01:21.240 That's kind of human nature to make generalizations. 1:01:21.240 --> 1:01:26.720 But but I see it as the role of of 1:01:26.840 --> 1:01:30.080 historian is to just try to get the story. 1:01:31.720 --> 1:01:31.959 Right. 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:35.120 And and even the word right is probably not even 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:40.000 a usable word right there, because you know, what does 1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:43.280 that even mean? But but you know, I just and 1:01:43.320 --> 1:01:46.000 that's that's one of the things I, you know, I 1:01:46.200 --> 1:01:50.960 try to hammer into my students is is right, you know, 1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:56.320 bottom up history and not not top down history. Uh, 1:01:56.960 --> 1:02:01.280 knowing what you want to say, and then finding the 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:05.920 facts to build this argument. You you, you know, you 1:02:06.000 --> 1:02:08.080 look at the stuff and then build your argument from 1:02:08.080 --> 1:02:12.920 that and and hopefully you know, hopefully that's a that's 1:02:12.960 --> 1:02:14.480 a reasonable way to go about this. 1:02:16.000 --> 1:02:20.640 Mm hm, you know this. 1:02:21.040 --> 1:02:21.160 Uh. 1:02:23.200 --> 1:02:25.920 I was gonna ask you, did you you listen to 1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:31.240 these episodes? Did they did anything anything stand out to 1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.120 you just you you told me you listened to all 1:02:33.160 --> 1:02:33.720 three of them. 1:02:33.880 --> 1:02:35.360 I did. I did. 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:37.720 One of the things that stood out to me was 1:02:38.320 --> 1:02:40.840 I wasn't surprised at all when I got to the 1:02:40.960 --> 1:02:46.240 end of episode three and we weren't anywhere close to halfway. 1:02:48.320 --> 1:02:51.360 As he was driving to my office, right, yeah, And. 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:54.320 I thought, yeah, I mean, and and that was a 1:02:54.320 --> 1:02:55.200 good thing for me. 1:02:55.400 --> 1:02:59.439 I mean, if you're gonna even even you know, using 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:03.240 your phrase dipping the bucket into the ocean of what 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:06.000 or what however you phrased that of Civil war history, 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:11.480 even doing that, you know you couldn't do justice to 1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:15.760 any of this with a with even a three episode 1:03:16.120 --> 1:03:18.640 or I mean that just you know that you just couldn't. 1:03:18.720 --> 1:03:19.600 You couldn't do that. 1:03:19.800 --> 1:03:23.640 So so I wasn't surprised at all that this thing 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:25.720 just kind of got out of control. 1:03:27.200 --> 1:03:28.800 Idayall. 1:03:29.760 --> 1:03:30.160 I didn't. 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:32.480 I didn't have to know anything that went on behind 1:03:32.480 --> 1:03:37.720 the scenes to to realize you've you've grabbed something wild 1:03:37.840 --> 1:03:40.840 and crazy and you've got to deal with it for 1:03:40.880 --> 1:03:41.320 a while. 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:44.240 I mean, sorry, everybody, it's. 1:03:47.400 --> 1:03:47.480 So. 1:03:47.600 --> 1:03:51.160 I was so, I was, really I was really glad 1:03:51.200 --> 1:03:54.360 about that, because I think you've done a good John 1:03:54.440 --> 1:03:55.120 I think J D. 1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:56.800 Hewett. I I don't know JD. 1:03:56.880 --> 1:04:02.080 Hewett, but I was really impressed with with his contributions 1:04:02.200 --> 1:04:04.600 and I'm sure he's he's going to keep, you know, 1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:08.840 contributing to the to this thing. I think he've done 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:12.840 a good job of of of approaching the subject as 1:04:12.880 --> 1:04:18.040 objectively as you can, not avoiding, you know, some difficult 1:04:18.280 --> 1:04:20.640 discussions that you have to have with a with a 1:04:20.720 --> 1:04:24.880 topic like the Civil War, but not you know, going 1:04:24.920 --> 1:04:29.240 on tangents that you know, take you way, you know, 1:04:29.440 --> 1:04:32.400 away from any sort of you know, central. 1:04:32.040 --> 1:04:32.880 Focus that you got. 1:04:32.920 --> 1:04:37.440 So uh yeah, I've really I've really enjoyed it. And 1:04:37.440 --> 1:04:42.160 and uh and you know that the thing about the 1:04:42.200 --> 1:04:48.800 Cherokees was, uh, you know, that's just one of so 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:55.120 many hundreds of really fascinating topics that you could take 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:59.200 these little detours like that. I mean, the the Civil 1:04:59.200 --> 1:05:02.560 Wars just just full of those stories. And I loved 1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:06.200 that that Cherokee story. And I would guess that that 1:05:06.320 --> 1:05:10.280 JD got way more detailed with that than comes out 1:05:10.600 --> 1:05:14.760 in the episode, because you know, there's that story is 1:05:14.760 --> 1:05:17.360 so nuanced, and I think you guys did a good 1:05:17.440 --> 1:05:20.160 job with the nuances because you know, you think about it. 1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:21.880 I was thinking about that listening to it on the 1:05:21.880 --> 1:05:26.160 way over. If you're if you're a Cherokee in eighteen 1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:31.000 sixty one, you don't have a good relationship with the 1:05:31.080 --> 1:05:36.600 US government. At the same time, if you've allied yourself 1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:41.040 with the Confederate Government, as the Cherokee initially did, many 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:44.520 of them reluctantly, so they didn't they didn't want it, 1:05:44.560 --> 1:05:47.080 they didn't want to be involved, one way or another, 1:05:47.200 --> 1:05:51.880 most of them didn't. Then you've you've allied yourself with 1:05:51.920 --> 1:05:57.440 someone who's just a slight offshoot of this crazy oppressive 1:05:57.440 --> 1:06:01.160 government you've been you've been dealing with these years, and 1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:05.760 that ran you, you know, out of your your ancestral 1:06:05.760 --> 1:06:09.480 homeland in the South. And then you get to the 1:06:09.480 --> 1:06:12.840 Battle of pe Ridge, and I can only imagine that 1:06:13.360 --> 1:06:17.240 some of that scalping was just it was just an 1:06:17.240 --> 1:06:24.640 outgrowth of just sort of pure disillusionment with the whole thing. 1:06:25.160 --> 1:06:27.400 You know, you've been sucked into this war that you 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:31.000 don't want any part of. Whatever happens, the outcome for 1:06:31.080 --> 1:06:32.840 you is probably not going to be all that great. 1:06:33.440 --> 1:06:37.520 And here you are fighting on the side of one 1:06:37.600 --> 1:06:41.959 group of you know, these these Americans against another group 1:06:42.000 --> 1:06:48.200 of Americans. And it's not that you know, scalping is 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:51.040 is ever a great thing, but you can kind of 1:06:51.040 --> 1:06:55.160 see where this could be a manifestation of just this 1:06:55.280 --> 1:07:00.560 sort of madness that these people find themselves in the 1:07:00.560 --> 1:07:03.440 middle of. And and truly, by by the end of 1:07:03.440 --> 1:07:08.120 the Civil War, most of those Cherokees have have probably 1:07:08.200 --> 1:07:11.880 either switched sides to the because many of them later 1:07:12.200 --> 1:07:15.400 switched to the Union side, or they just sort of 1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:21.320 dropped out of the whole thing altogether because they were 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:24.680 also products of their own civil wars. As JD mentioned, 1:07:25.440 --> 1:07:28.800 that Cherokee Civil War had been going on for years 1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:34.680 and and so it's just such a complex thing and 1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:38.880 such an unexpected thing. Like Josh said, you know, if 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:41.720 you're if you're not privy to that little part of 1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:45.080 Civil War history, it's not something you would expect to 1:07:45.120 --> 1:07:47.680 hear it all. But it's uh, but it's it's a 1:07:47.720 --> 1:07:49.600 fascinating part of it. And I think you guys did 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:53.360 a did a good job with that, you know, with 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:55.240 with those nuances and that, and that's what you have 1:07:55.280 --> 1:07:59.960 to dwell on in telling any of these stories, the 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:04.000 various perspectives and complexities of these stories. 1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:09.680 Yeah, I mean it would be think about taking today's 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:15.560 modern issues and trying to distill it into like simple 1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:20.439 narratives just about like you pick pick pick your war 1:08:20.960 --> 1:08:24.439 of the last twenty years. I mean you it would 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:28.040 be hard to be it'd be hard to simplify in 1:08:28.080 --> 1:08:31.519 a way that would that would actually be accurate for 1:08:31.600 --> 1:08:34.960 the for the whole country. That's that's when I am 1:08:35.000 --> 1:08:38.439 reading McPherson's book, which is you know, like we said, 1:08:38.520 --> 1:08:41.120 just think as an Appalachian Bible and this overview of 1:08:41.120 --> 1:08:44.760 the Civil War. I mean you just realize, holy cow, 1:08:44.840 --> 1:08:48.960 there was so much stuff going on, and so many motivations, 1:08:48.960 --> 1:08:52.800 and so many political factions, and so many economic factors 1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:58.519 and racial stuff going on with Jewish people in the South. 1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:02.679 I mean, like, yeah, you could have gone any direction. 1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:06.240 I mean, we could have had a whole segment, we 1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:11.479 could do a whole series on you know, the Black 1:09:12.400 --> 1:09:18.800 Union Armies and then later the Confederate Black you know, 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:22.320 towards the end of the war they start recruiting the 1:09:22.360 --> 1:09:26.519 actual slaves that are still enslaves to fight. I mean, 1:09:26.520 --> 1:09:30.080 you know, there's point being there's just like a thousand 1:09:30.240 --> 1:09:33.400 different things that you could talk about, and what was 1:09:33.439 --> 1:09:36.920 interesting Brooks said this earlier to me. He said, modern 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:42.080 civil war scholars have just continued to kind of narrow 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:47.759 their focuses into like looking in really specific spots. As 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:51.839 the academic system makes people when they're getting their PhD 1:09:52.000 --> 1:09:55.400 thesis is they have to do something new. And it's 1:09:55.400 --> 1:09:57.439 not really a slight to the academic system. It's just 1:09:57.479 --> 1:10:01.000 the way it works. But like all low hanging fruit's 1:10:01.040 --> 1:10:04.440 kind of been taken. And am I just saying it accurately? 1:10:05.280 --> 1:10:08.240 And you just kind of and and and what you 1:10:08.320 --> 1:10:10.479 find is that when you just narrow in on one 1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:13.080 little spot, there's a ton of stuff there, and a 1:10:13.120 --> 1:10:17.439 lot of these modern civil war academics like know all 1:10:17.479 --> 1:10:22.120 the details of like one war or one one battle 1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:27.400 or yeah, it's just it's interesting. But now I hope 1:10:27.400 --> 1:10:29.640 we come away with just a general understanding of the 1:10:29.640 --> 1:10:34.840 Civil War that you know, you'd kind of maybe by 1:10:34.920 --> 1:10:37.920 highlighting some of these little spots, you kind of get 1:10:37.920 --> 1:10:41.920 a sense. By the time where we end, you know, 1:10:41.960 --> 1:10:47.000 you kind of have a sense of the Civil War. Yep, yep, 1:10:49.000 --> 1:10:49.479 what else? 1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:52.679 Nothing? 1:10:54.360 --> 1:10:54.920 This is a her. 1:10:59.400 --> 1:11:03.000 It's because oh, yes, I meant to say this earlier. 1:11:03.560 --> 1:11:07.040 You you you are in the TA Covia's hot seat. 1:11:07.080 --> 1:11:10.320 Did you see these boots on the chair? Yeah, yeah, okay, 1:11:10.320 --> 1:11:13.720 those are toa Covia's boots. TA Cova's. To Covia's is 1:11:14.080 --> 1:11:17.120 they of all the boot companies in the world. They're 1:11:17.160 --> 1:11:20.639 the ones that are the partners of the Bear Grease podcast. 1:11:21.400 --> 1:11:25.840 And yeah, you you are going to be given a 1:11:25.880 --> 1:11:31.000 gift certificate of a substantial amount that you'll be able 1:11:31.040 --> 1:11:34.960 to get a pair of Takova's boots or anything in 1:11:35.000 --> 1:11:39.720 their store. They have a full They've got everything. Ye 1:11:40.840 --> 1:11:46.160 shirts have misty, your wife might want. 1:11:45.920 --> 1:11:48.480 To blouse, long sleeves. 1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:51.600 These are These are Toakvia's boots. But they also have 1:11:51.760 --> 1:11:55.760 some kind of boots, not kind of like that. Yeah, 1:11:55.800 --> 1:11:58.160 they have a they have a lace up. So because 1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:00.920 of your sacrifice of dry over here in the rain, 1:12:00.960 --> 1:12:02.960 all the way across the Ozarks, we're going to get 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:04.640 you a Ta Covi's gift certificate. 1:12:05.040 --> 1:12:10.639 Well, I appreciate that, you know what, I'll I'll make 1:12:10.680 --> 1:12:17.200 an admission on film here and and I'm fifty six 1:12:17.280 --> 1:12:20.439 years old and I have never owned a pair of 1:12:20.479 --> 1:12:23.840 cowboy boots. What in my life? Yeah, I don't believe. 1:12:23.840 --> 1:12:26.599 I don't know that I've ever had had one had 1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:27.080 one own. 1:12:27.520 --> 1:12:32.559 I've you know, the nineties and you didn't have a 1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:33.400 pair of ropers. 1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:34.600 Yeah, you lived through the. 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:36.080 Nineties and Arkansas didn't. 1:12:35.880 --> 1:12:38.520 Have the the fringe on it. 1:12:38.880 --> 1:12:41.240 Not say they've come back more in the style in 1:12:41.240 --> 1:12:47.520 the last fifteen years. There's just cowboys, non cowboys wearing cowboy. 1:12:47.400 --> 1:12:49.679 Yes, I'm not a cowboy, but I sure like wearing 1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:50.240 the boots. 1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:50.719 Yeah. 1:12:50.800 --> 1:12:54.320 Yeah, closer to a cowboy than most people in the 1:12:55.320 --> 1:12:57.240 in the I mean, you grew up on a farm. 1:12:57.560 --> 1:13:01.679 Yeah, I on a farm, but you know, I didn't 1:13:01.760 --> 1:13:04.120 regularly ride horses or anything. 1:13:04.360 --> 1:13:06.240 We had a horse that I rode a couple of 1:13:06.280 --> 1:13:08.040 times when I when I was a kid. 1:13:09.040 --> 1:13:11.719 But uh, but yeah, I just I've been in boots 1:13:11.720 --> 1:13:15.080 all my life. Work boots they've got they've got some 1:13:15.200 --> 1:13:17.880 nice bots to you. I mean this this may be 1:13:18.439 --> 1:13:22.680 this may be break into the cowboy boot world. And 1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:24.800 I've never had a cowboy hat either, So that. 1:13:25.360 --> 1:13:27.320 To make a change, it's right, trying to step out 1:13:27.320 --> 1:13:29.600 of your comfort zone, out of your culture. 1:13:29.240 --> 1:13:35.920 And well up with you could you would if you 1:13:36.000 --> 1:13:38.280 had a pair of like Josh is wearing a nice 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:41.360 pair of square toed boots. Those are made of bison 1:13:41.439 --> 1:13:44.760 lee and those are you know, I could see you 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:48.960 wearing those too a lecture. Yeah, you kind of getting 1:13:49.040 --> 1:13:52.519 just a about that much more respect than if you didn't. 1:13:53.240 --> 1:13:55.360 Yeah, you know, getting getting me up. 1:13:56.400 --> 1:13:59.360 I mean you be a little taller, a little bit, 1:13:59.439 --> 1:14:00.800 you'd be a little He's a. 1:14:00.760 --> 1:14:03.160 Tall, lean guy anyway, and putting boots on him make 1:14:03.240 --> 1:14:04.000 him imposing. 1:14:04.400 --> 1:14:09.519 Yeah, you would be imposing, especially with the hair gets 1:14:09.520 --> 1:14:10.799 a hair cut every six months. 1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:12.519 The hair is coming on. 1:14:15.720 --> 1:14:18.840 The first time that I introduced Brooks on the Bear 1:14:18.880 --> 1:14:24.320 Grease podcast. Do you remember how I introduced you? Misty 1:14:24.400 --> 1:14:27.680 said she feared I embarrassed you, and I was like, 1:14:27.840 --> 1:14:31.160 I don't think, I don't think I'm Brooks. 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:37.160 Did you mention my car? Yeah, I'm okay with that. 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:40.120 I'm okay as a serial duct taper. 1:14:40.320 --> 1:14:45.519 Yeah, I mean it was I wouldn't. I've never said 1:14:45.520 --> 1:14:48.040 a single thing on this podcast that was meant to 1:14:48.080 --> 1:14:52.040 be derogatory to a guest. I may have said something 1:14:52.080 --> 1:15:00.559 derogatory to like some villain or something or no, it's 1:15:00.600 --> 1:15:03.120 all in love, all in love, but no. When I 1:15:03.160 --> 1:15:09.120 introduced Brooks, I said, I described his car, which I 1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:12.559 thought was awesome because we were at Missouri State and 1:15:12.600 --> 1:15:16.040 he had he would commute like hours from where you 1:15:16.120 --> 1:15:20.000 live in the Arkansas over to Missouri State. And I 1:15:20.040 --> 1:15:24.320 mean he had a cheap car that had uh you know, 1:15:24.640 --> 1:15:27.719 got good gas mileage and the and the and the 1:15:27.840 --> 1:15:30.920 In the review, the mirror was duct taped onto it, 1:15:31.520 --> 1:15:33.240 and I was like, and this this guy is like 1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:38.840 a genius, written books, just this academic and I just 1:15:38.960 --> 1:15:41.080 was like, I like this. I like this guy. 1:15:41.760 --> 1:15:41.960 You know. 1:15:42.520 --> 1:15:47.400 So now now I come in as your fashion consultant, 1:15:48.479 --> 1:15:51.200 you know, and some some boots. 1:15:53.920 --> 1:15:57.800 Not a fashion guy, but I appreciation guy or a 1:15:57.840 --> 1:16:03.400 bad language fella. Yeah, bad word, bad word fella. 1:16:03.600 --> 1:16:05.120 I respected, I respected. 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:09.800 Yeah, I'm I'm excited about this and I yeah, I 1:16:09.840 --> 1:16:15.040 appreciate the covies, thank you cos the gift certificate, and yeah, 1:16:14.520 --> 1:16:18.639 I will be a I'll have here in about a week. 1:16:18.680 --> 1:16:22.160 I'll have short hair, cowboy boots and. 1:16:22.720 --> 1:16:24.040 You could take on the world. 1:16:24.320 --> 1:16:33.479 Yeah, absolutely absolutely run for Congress, look like Tim McGraw. Also, 1:16:33.760 --> 1:16:39.519 uh tune in stay tuned this week this week for 1:16:39.600 --> 1:16:48.040 a special special episode of Bear Grease, starring a one 1:16:48.120 --> 1:16:50.879 Bear John Newcomb and a Josh Landbridge. 1:16:50.920 --> 1:16:51.520 Spilmaker. 1:16:52.280 --> 1:16:54.280 Is that coming? Is that coming after this render? 1:16:54.360 --> 1:16:55.799 Yep, yep. Yeah. 1:16:56.200 --> 1:16:58.479 So I look forward to take to take to the water. 1:16:58.600 --> 1:16:59.479 That's all I'm gonna tell you. 1:16:59.479 --> 1:17:00.320 We take to the water. 1:17:00.600 --> 1:17:03.479 Really looking forward to that. An extra drop on the 1:17:03.479 --> 1:17:07.920 Bear Grease channel, coming straight from these guys having no 1:17:08.000 --> 1:17:10.479 idea what they did. I just know that it probably 1:17:10.479 --> 1:17:11.519 broke all the rules. 1:17:12.600 --> 1:17:19.640 You are correct, you are correct. Yes, hostile takeover of 1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:20.200 bear Grease. 1:17:20.520 --> 1:17:22.200 Wow, wow, wow wow. 1:17:22.479 --> 1:17:23.560 Tune in for that. 1:17:23.560 --> 1:17:27.240 That's gonna be great. Well, thank you for driving over. 1:17:27.360 --> 1:17:29.479 It's been great, and you're gonna hear more from Brooks 1:17:29.479 --> 1:17:33.680 on the next episode of Bear Grease. Fantastic, So foreshadow 1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:39.280 the shadow has been cast, and man, we're gonna just 1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:43.640 keep We're gonna we're gonna keep on this subject. We 1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:46.559 may we may do a break from the Civil War 1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:51.080 for one episode to give a little reprieve. Not not. 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:56.880 I mean there's gonna be four right at least, but yeah, 1:17:56.920 --> 1:18:00.320 we're just we're just gonna stomp through it until we 1:18:00.439 --> 1:18:01.240 figured it all out. 1:18:01.960 --> 1:18:02.360 That's right. 1:18:02.479 --> 1:18:03.120 See what I like. 1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:05.240 To do in the summertime when the kids were little, 1:18:05.320 --> 1:18:07.040 and then when we started the school is just take 1:18:07.080 --> 1:18:09.200 a subject and just kind of immerse yourself in it. 1:18:09.760 --> 1:18:11.559 And it was so fun at the school. 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:14.200 We would we would take on topics and we would 1:18:14.240 --> 1:18:16.639 just go crazy with it and we do the art 1:18:16.680 --> 1:18:19.480 from that that time period. And that was our summer programs. 1:18:20.040 --> 1:18:21.719 And you know what, a whole bunch of those kids 1:18:22.000 --> 1:18:26.559 really liked history so that you could just Bear's looking 1:18:26.600 --> 1:18:26.840 at me. 1:18:29.320 --> 1:18:30.479 I'll be darn. 1:18:32.560 --> 1:18:36.200 Bear was not one of those kids. I'm just kidding. 1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:37.439 I'm just kidding. 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:39.640 But all right, that's what we should that's what you 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:41.840 should do. You should just advertise we're gonna just spend 1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:43.040 a summer in the Civil War. 1:18:43.640 --> 1:18:44.840 Summer in the Civil War. 1:18:44.920 --> 1:18:45.360 I like it. 1:18:45.439 --> 1:18:48.160 Civil War summer, Civil Wars twenty. 1:18:47.840 --> 1:18:51.040 Six, Civil War summer. That's right, that's right, all right, 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:54.840 thanks everybody for listening. Excuse me for my weird little cough. 1:18:55.000 --> 1:18:57.840 It's almost gone for three weeks. I've had it. Keep 1:18:57.880 --> 1:18:59.880 the wild places wild. That's where the bears live.