Speaker 1: My name is Clay Knucomb and this is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called the bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast. Brought to you
Speaker 1: by Tokov's Boots. I'm a cowboy boot man and I've
Speaker 1: been wearing to Covis for years. There the most comfortable
Speaker 1: boot I've ever put on. Good boots for good times.
Speaker 1: We're rollinglling, We're rolling here we are. We found ourselves
Speaker 1: on the third episode of bear Grease's attempt to dip
Speaker 1: but a single pail of water out of the ocean
Speaker 1: of the Civil War. And my has it been fascinating?
Speaker 1: It really has? And my do We have an eclectic
Speaker 1: group of people here and we're going to do the
Speaker 1: classic bear Grease Render, introduce our.
Speaker 2: Guests varying levels of facial hair right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: If they may not even be able to recognize me
Speaker 1: just by audience.
Speaker 2: I want to tell everybody what your name is.
Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukelem and I worked for Farm Bureau.
Speaker 1: I'm a Farm Bureau insurance agent. I've shaved my beard.
Speaker 1: Misty always says I look like an insurance agent.
Speaker 5: Well, he just looks trustworthy, you know, he looks like
Speaker 5: as opposed to how he looked before.
Speaker 3: Well, he didn't look trustworthy.
Speaker 1: Okay, listen, last week I went to the pinnacle of
Speaker 1: social strata in Arkansas at the Little Rock Country Club.
Speaker 1: Your very Clay nukemb was at the Little Rock Country Club. Okay, Brooks,
Speaker 1: you would understand that have not yet to introduce I'm
Speaker 1: waiting for him. More than one very well respected, esteemed, older,
Speaker 1: older gentleman looked at me and instantaneously went, you look great,
Speaker 1: way better than you used to.
Speaker 2: Compliment.
Speaker 1: Oh, it was so immediate, like he like these guys
Speaker 1: just couldn't help being I mean it was a compliment.
Speaker 1: They were like saying, hey, you look good. But really
Speaker 1: it was like, for the last twenty years you have
Speaker 1: looked really rough.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, have you gotten yourself a home now?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, So, I mean so I took it. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm clean shaven. That's that's all we're going to say
Speaker 1: about it. You know, Jelly Roll the other day, there
Speaker 1: was there was there was comp there was it came
Speaker 1: out in the media that Jelly Roll had divorced his wife. Okay,
Speaker 1: and it was like all over the media and everybody
Speaker 1: was like, oh, no, Jelly Rolls left his wife. Jelly
Speaker 1: roll didn't in fact leave his wife. And he spoke
Speaker 1: about it, and he said, I'm going to say this
Speaker 1: one time and then we're going to be done. I'm
Speaker 1: still with my wife. Everything's okay. Fake media, you know,
Speaker 1: it was promoting this stuff. He said, this is the
Speaker 1: last time I will speak about it. This is the
Speaker 1: last time that I will speak about this shaved face.
Speaker 2: Josh, well, is it going to stick around for a while.
Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see it. We have a great crew, doctor,
Speaker 1: mister dukem be so lovely to have you, Josh Lambridge, Spilmmakers,
Speaker 1: Bear John the Bear, John dukem and in the COVID
Speaker 1: is hot seat of one of my favorite people, doctor Brooks.
Speaker 1: And yes, I when I was in Little Rock the
Speaker 1: time before Brooks, I told a very a big crowd
Speaker 1: of people, I said, if you want to be my friend,
Speaker 1: like if you if we officially engage in friendship, you know,
Speaker 1: there's like some paper work you got to go through
Speaker 1: and stuff. One of the required reading materials is doctor
Speaker 1: Brooks Blevin's book Arkansas Arkansas. So this book is what
Speaker 1: what's this book about.
Speaker 6: It's about the history of the image of Arkansas, kind
Speaker 6: of the hillbilly image of Arkansas. Well, probably the funnest
Speaker 6: book I ever wrote.
Speaker 1: So you've written a ton of books, several Yeah. So
Speaker 1: Brooks is known as the I mean, he's a historian
Speaker 1: and works where where What's what university do you.
Speaker 4: Work for at Missouri State University, sury State? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh in Springfield.
Speaker 4: In Springfield.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's known as the historian of the Ozarks.
Speaker 1: I mean, undisputable.
Speaker 3: You might not. I'm sure you don't know this.
Speaker 5: But when we first started our school, we had a
Speaker 5: summer program and then I made all the middle.
Speaker 3: Schoolers read this.
Speaker 5: Really Yeah, we did a whole summer program about Arkansas
Speaker 5: and it was so fun and I mean it was
Speaker 5: we went all over Arkansas and we you know, saw
Speaker 5: all the things and we read all the all. It
Speaker 5: was probably our second summer and we had the best time.
Speaker 3: And the kids thought this was a real riot.
Speaker 5: You were a little young, you were not a middle schooler,
Speaker 5: but your sisters, your sisters were here.
Speaker 1: So what I think is so great about this book
Speaker 1: is it it really gives you the backstory of place
Speaker 1: and not everybody's from Arkansas, and that's okay. But the
Speaker 1: the name Arkansas has spelled the modern correct way, and
Speaker 1: then the second Arkansas, and the title is spelled with
Speaker 1: a W because in like early frontier Arkansas, many people
Speaker 1: spelled it fanatically, I guess, and put a W at
Speaker 1: the end. And so so brooks point inside of this
Speaker 1: book is that there's there's kind of two Arkansas's in
Speaker 1: a way, and and some of it is kind of fictitious,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of a stereotype that's stuck with us
Speaker 1: through the years. But it's all rooted and element of
Speaker 1: truth that was amplified for all these different reasons and
Speaker 1: and and it's a fascinating book. But to me, the
Speaker 1: point is to just do your best to try to
Speaker 1: understand where you're from. That's what it did for me.
Speaker 1: And I was adult an adult before I read this.
Speaker 5: And I asked Brooks, would you say that we are
Speaker 5: our Cansons are Arkansawyers?
Speaker 4: I would say, everyone gets to decide.
Speaker 3: And what does it say about you if you describe yourself.
Speaker 6: As an Arcanson, it's you're probably not too far from
Speaker 6: the little Rock Country Club.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I consider my wonderful people, wonderful people.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm an Arkansawer. But but I say, you know,
Speaker 6: not everyone's comfortable with that term Arkansawor because it does
Speaker 6: sound more country. And so what whatever people want to you,
Speaker 6: can you make a switch from one to the other. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: And it's just a little bit of paper. And I
Speaker 6: ply and I probably do myself, just in different circumstances.
Speaker 6: You know, my Arkansas yourself might not go over as
Speaker 6: well teaching a graduate history course at Missouri State. You know,
Speaker 6: it's it's a little bit of code switching. I guess
Speaker 6: I get it, you know, but but I'm yeah, I
Speaker 6: I I say Arkansas your but uh anyone who wants
Speaker 6: to say Arkansas and I don't have a problem with that,
Speaker 6: because that's I think that's more of the official, kind
Speaker 6: of the maybe unofficial official way of addressing ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, no, I think this is a this is
Speaker 1: a great a great book, and and and anybody if
Speaker 1: they had an author in their state and their reading
Speaker 1: that is doing what Brooks has done for us. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a grand feat. But uh so
Speaker 1: US has also written a bunch of books of like
Speaker 1: deep dive history into the kind of the chronology of
Speaker 1: the Ozarks and and how how things kind of went down.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and that would the middle schoolers. There's a There
Speaker 6: are a couple of instances of course language in that book, which.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to bring it up. Okay, it's an
Speaker 1: elephant in the room.
Speaker 5: Okay, I should say like this, we went through it together. Okay,
Speaker 5: that's how I should say it. We went through it together,
Speaker 5: Genie Wayne. Is that did I say or not that
Speaker 5: she came and spoke to the crew because it was
Speaker 5: just right down the street from the University of Arkansas.
Speaker 3: She came and spoke to him. We we went through
Speaker 3: it together.
Speaker 1: Okay, we did.
Speaker 3: It was like our Arkansas history and it was you.
Speaker 1: You said the dirty words.
Speaker 3: I did not.
Speaker 4: It's nothing terribly bad.
Speaker 6: It's not you know, lower on the on the wrongs
Speaker 6: of language, and there are always quotes, are almost always quote.
Speaker 6: I'm in general, I'm not a bad language type feller.
Speaker 1: But but if.
Speaker 7: I'm quoting some yeah, let them fly, let them fly
Speaker 7: more Arkansas phrase that I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: I'm not one of them. Bad.
Speaker 6: Would you say bad I say bad language, bad language.
Speaker 7: Fellers, bad language fellers.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, we went through it together and it was
Speaker 5: just fun for the kids to kind of hear how
Speaker 5: people perceie because you know, they pick up on that stuff.
Speaker 5: And so we we had a good time to go.
Speaker 5: We went to the Arkansas Post, which is a little
Speaker 5: bit We were expecting more.
Speaker 1: Out of Arkansas Post.
Speaker 4: See there five hours.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4: Unless you appreciate surveying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's it's not just a one.
Speaker 3: Of the worst field trips I've ever planned. Your kids
Speaker 3: were on that trip, well, probably.
Speaker 4: Here's the baseline.
Speaker 1: So I told Brooks. We we cited this book and uh,
Speaker 1: and I'm making it a point to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about my book on occasion just prime in the audience.
Speaker 1: But we we we talked about Arkansas as the bear
Speaker 1: state in my book. That's coming out in February. So
Speaker 1: get ready, get ready.
Speaker 4: I can't wait.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be good.
Speaker 1: Yeah bear, Yes, sir. What's the latest bear grease YouTube
Speaker 1: video coming out?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: Well, the one that came out last week.
Speaker 8: I rafted a big flooded river Ozark River did some
Speaker 8: pretty rough rapids and.
Speaker 3: Got left behind by your dad.
Speaker 1: Left behind, But you need to watch the video to
Speaker 1: figure that part out.
Speaker 5: I didn't know that until I watched the video and
Speaker 5: we were watching it in the same room, and I
Speaker 5: that part, I said, because you know, I was supposed to.
Speaker 5: I don't want to like spoiler alert here, but I
Speaker 5: was the one that was supposed to come get you.
Speaker 5: And I arranged it with two different men who were
Speaker 5: driving together to and I looked at Clay and I said,
Speaker 5: you forgot Bear.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's just a minor part of the film. I
Speaker 1: pulled up and my truck was sure enough not there. Well,
Speaker 1: so Bear was rafting from one location to another, and
Speaker 1: I was supposed to go pick him up. At the end,
Speaker 1: brought my truck off and Brooks. It was unbelievable how
Speaker 1: nonchalantly this this very important, you know detail was given
Speaker 1: to me. So I do accept responsibility for not picking
Speaker 1: up Bear, but I think we should all share the
Speaker 1: load just a little bit.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 5: I got the call as I was on my way
Speaker 5: out the door, and I think, really the person who
Speaker 5: he had already floated halfway down the river when he thought, oh.
Speaker 1: You didn't even know. You didn't even arrange the ride
Speaker 1: till you were already in the current.
Speaker 3: This is your fault.
Speaker 1: This is just like every other thing.
Speaker 8: My friend Malachi was gonna pick me up because he
Speaker 8: was filming. But then I get like a mile down
Speaker 8: the river, which is all we'd plan to do, and
Speaker 8: I was like, I think, I think I need to
Speaker 8: float some more rivers.
Speaker 1: So Malacha, you don't need to pick me up anymore.
Speaker 3: Until he calls me and I'm walking out the door.
Speaker 1: I figured it out one way, see, and I knew
Speaker 1: you'd figured it out. Yeah, Like when I heard I
Speaker 1: need to pick up bear, I was like, I'll probably
Speaker 1: pick bear up.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 1: Listen, listen, don't pick the bear is being fueled by
Speaker 1: this kind of energy. Me and Chris Roberts in two
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, the spring of nineteen ninety nine, One
Speaker 1: day we drive across Briar Creek swollen from a flash flood.
Speaker 1: Briar Creek, you know, you could have waited across it
Speaker 1: and hardly got your feet wet, but in a flash flood,
Speaker 1: it just stormed up. We see that. I call Chris
Speaker 1: on the landline no cell phones, and I say, hey,
Speaker 1: come to the house. We're floating Briar Creek, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I'll be there in ten minutes. He comes over. In
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four cavalier. He drives to my house.
Speaker 2: Brother had a ninety four cavalier.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we get the canoe we call Old Glory.
Speaker 1: That was a Washtaw River guide canoe that had cracks
Speaker 1: in it and leaked just a little bit. We put
Speaker 1: it in the bridge at Briar Creek and we told
Speaker 1: Juju Nukem, we're gonna call you from somewhere this afternoon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't know where, we don't know who. We didn't
Speaker 1: have cell phones. We're just gonna call you when we
Speaker 1: decide that we floated far enough. And we set off
Speaker 1: in the river.
Speaker 5: And people are crossing the bridges, like trucks are parked
Speaker 5: at the bridges, not crossing it, and they're seeing them
Speaker 5: and they're begging them, do not.
Speaker 1: Go excuse me? The the Uh yeah, it's it's all
Speaker 1: big story. I actually told this story on Meat Eater
Speaker 1: Camp for our stories because we ended up almost dying
Speaker 1: and uh. But the point is I knew Bear would be.
Speaker 2: Ok because he has access to a cell phone.
Speaker 1: Well, we got out of the river after we lost
Speaker 1: the canoe. Oh which.
Speaker 3: Underwater snake I mean yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean I could go into the details, but there was
Speaker 1: the nearest death experience I've ever had in my life,
Speaker 1: for no joke, no no meta, no exaggeration. And but
Speaker 1: we climbed out of the river. It became where we
Speaker 1: briar meets prairie and then turns into a really big creek.
Speaker 1: And we walked to one of our old teachers houses
Speaker 1: like half a mile, knocked on the door. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: can we use your phone?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 1: Called Juju Anyway, that's the way it is. So I
Speaker 1: knew Bear would be okay.
Speaker 5: I love this story because you're saying I knew Bear
Speaker 5: would be okay because I had a similar near death experience.
Speaker 3: And that's the same energy bear question.
Speaker 8: Whenever you canoe, you got sucked under a log? Wasn't
Speaker 8: that what happened? Yes, that we went floating the day
Speaker 8: after I hit that big river and that happened to
Speaker 8: one of my buddies, and it just like crumbled the kayak. Yeah,
Speaker 8: And it was not like the flows were not that high,
Speaker 8: Like I didn't feel that dangerous at all. But he
Speaker 8: went up to just logging and just sucked it under.
Speaker 1: Did it tear the kayak up? Yeah? Well, we were
Speaker 1: able to like pull the dents out and finish the float?
Speaker 1: Was that my kayak? No, you don't have a kayak, that's.
Speaker 2: My it's in his junk pile.
Speaker 3: So oh glory, never never, never floated again.
Speaker 1: She's still Gary Nukomes backyard. Still yep, yep. Well we're
Speaker 1: here today because we're discussing the Civil War. It's very serious.
Speaker 1: So drop the energy, guys. Okay, let's quit having fun.
Speaker 1: Right for the professor here, Yeah, it's time for the
Speaker 1: doctor blevins. Do you are you? What's your reputation amongst
Speaker 1: the student body there at Missouri State? Well, I know
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to talk about yourself, but you.
Speaker 6: Have a rate my professor score, I guess I do.
Speaker 6: I've never looked, well, I've never looked.
Speaker 5: No professors should never look at rape my professors, and
Speaker 5: no one should ever look at comments and news articles
Speaker 5: that have been written about them like those are just
Speaker 5: rules that I live by.
Speaker 4: I've never looked.
Speaker 6: And you know the thing is, we've got I think
Speaker 6: around twenty six thousand students and I have probably fewer
Speaker 6: than one hundred per year. So whatever my reputation is,
Speaker 6: it's not very widespread.
Speaker 4: I can assure you of that. Now. I'm the guy.
Speaker 6: I'm the history professor who insists on using good grammar
Speaker 6: in your papers. So I probably am not terribly appreciated by,
Speaker 6: you know, some of the students who get in there
Speaker 6: and realize they've got an English a history professor and
Speaker 6: an English professor that class.
Speaker 2: So I respect that.
Speaker 1: What classes will you teach next year?
Speaker 4: Let's see.
Speaker 6: In the I'm teaching my my undergraduate Ozark history class,
Speaker 6: which I do almost every year, but not quite every year,
Speaker 6: I'll teach a class on the history of American religious history,
Speaker 6: the history of religion in America, and I'll do a
Speaker 6: regular US history class. And uh, I think I'm doing
Speaker 6: my intro to Ozark's Studies class, which we have a
Speaker 6: We have a minor in Ozark's Studies Missouri really and
Speaker 6: the University of Arkansas is starting their minor in Ozark
Speaker 6: Studies this fall, so that'll be too. Schools, Missouri State
Speaker 6: and the u of A both have that minor, and
Speaker 6: that's our sort of.
Speaker 2: Gateway course.
Speaker 6: We just do a little bit of everything in that class,
Speaker 6: and it's it's meant to be kind of a fun
Speaker 6: of course, and hopefully it is for most of the students,
Speaker 6: but yeah, most of the stuff I usually do has
Speaker 6: to do with the Ozarks. But I I've never had
Speaker 6: a class on the Ozarks in my life, so you know,
Speaker 6: I do know right, well I don't know that, but
Speaker 6: I but you know, all my academic background is in
Speaker 6: other regular US history stuff. So yeah, it's just kind
Speaker 6: of a it's been a it's been a fun thing
Speaker 6: to be able to create, help create something a little
Speaker 6: new kind of sub field, and teach.
Speaker 4: A lot of classes about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now you have a you have a podcast inside
Speaker 1: of the Ozark podcasts. So there's a podcast with some
Speaker 1: of our friends Kyle and Kyle that are that's called
Speaker 1: the Ozark Podcast and they do a lot of hunting
Speaker 1: fish and stuff and just Ozark outdoors stuff. You have
Speaker 1: your own podcast, tell us tell me about that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's called The Old Ozarks and it's just more
Speaker 6: or less little vignettes of Ozark's history. And we did
Speaker 6: a first season last year in twenty twenty five of
Speaker 6: a dozen episodes, and we're going to do a dozen
Speaker 6: more this year starting next month July of twenty six.
Speaker 4: And they're just.
Speaker 6: Things that usually what I try to do is, you know,
Speaker 6: I wrote a trilogy on the History of the Ozarks
Speaker 6: that came out a few years ago.
Speaker 4: And as as.
Speaker 6: You know, having just recently finished a book, leave a
Speaker 6: lot more stuff on the cutting room floor than you
Speaker 6: ever use in a book, do you know, You use
Speaker 6: just a small percentage of stuff. And so I try
Speaker 6: to use a lot of stuff that I've done research
Speaker 6: on in the past and make little stories out of that,
Speaker 6: but I usually end up doing some new research on
Speaker 6: all this stuff and just trying to do I I'd
Speaker 6: usually try to do a couple that have to do
Speaker 6: with hunting and fishing, because I know that's kind of
Speaker 6: the built in audience that the Ozark podcast has, but
Speaker 6: most of them aren't geared specifically for outdoors stuff. You know,
Speaker 6: I'll do the one I just got through writing that
Speaker 6: I haven't recorded yet is is a basically the story
Speaker 6: of Albert Brumley, who is the probably the most famous
Speaker 6: gospel music composer in history, and he wrote almost all
Speaker 6: of his songs here in the Ozarks, up in McDonald County, Missouri,
Speaker 6: little little place just across the state line. And and
Speaker 6: I'll Fly Away the most.
Speaker 3: Favorite I think I've seen his name on a yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And and it just just a little. You know,
Speaker 6: it'd just be things like that, things that are related
Speaker 6: to the region that people might not know about, or
Speaker 6: they probably heard about, they may just not have associated
Speaker 6: them with Arkansas or Missouri or Oklahoma.
Speaker 1: Interesting. So the Old Ozarks by doctor Brooks Lemings. You
Speaker 1: can look it up on the Ozark. It's on their feed,
Speaker 1: like you'd go to the Ozark podcast feed. Yeah, starting
Speaker 1: in July, they will find those.
Speaker 6: It's tucked in there. If I think, we did them
Speaker 6: every Friday last year, and I guess they'll probably do
Speaker 6: that again this year, you know, every I should say
Speaker 6: every other Friday once once we started the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, good, good, good good.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: So if you're if you're new to the bear Gase
Speaker 1: Render podcast, what we do on these is we talk
Speaker 1: about the actual documentary style Bear Grease podcast from the
Speaker 1: week before. So we're three deep, We're we're naveled deep
Speaker 1: in the in the water of the Civil War and uh,
Speaker 1: this third episode was called The Scalped Soldiers and Why
Speaker 1: They Fought, which was, uh, it was a good name,
Speaker 1: but we really weren't talking exactly about why the Scalped
Speaker 1: Soldiers fought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be a little confusing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a little hollywooded up by my producer, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, to keep the people have been the scalp soldiers,
Speaker 1: semi colon why people fought in the Civil War. I mean,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have worked as a tie. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that I've wanted to bring this up with you because
Speaker 1: I was you know, titles.
Speaker 2: You weren't mad, you were just disappointed.
Speaker 5: No, but we are meant to convey meaning, not to
Speaker 5: not to relate precise facts, remember exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was good. It was good.
Speaker 4: No, thank you.
Speaker 1: But the whole the whole premise of the episode was
Speaker 1: kind of exploring why people fought in the Civil War,
Speaker 1: and and and you know, none of these have been
Speaker 1: exhaustive in detail or or in research, but they're they're
Speaker 1: they've been interesting to me because on this episode JD
Speaker 1: brings up my family's history in the Civil War, which
Speaker 1: was really cool.
Speaker 7: That was a shocker, like we weren't I was in
Speaker 7: here when you guys were recording, and we weren't expecting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 7: I've got a real sly about it too.
Speaker 2: Do you know anything about your history?
Speaker 1: Oh, he's he just set me up. Well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: what if I what if I what if I just
Speaker 1: made something up and it'd have been like, that's not
Speaker 1: what I found out. Uh, But so I just opened
Speaker 1: up the floor to who who would who would like
Speaker 1: to just give your commentary on the episode? Bear, maybe
Speaker 1: I'll pick you.
Speaker 3: Well that's not really opening.
Speaker 1: But it's a good entry point. So you're a great
Speaker 1: great great great grandfather yep, Thomas James newkem oh Man.
Speaker 3: That's your history too.
Speaker 5: Now, okay, you just figure that out, just just connected.
Speaker 1: What what's that mean to you? Pretty much? Nothing? It
Speaker 1: was interesting. I didn't know that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but it didn't really surprise me that much because
Speaker 8: it does seem like, I mean, it just seems like
Speaker 8: as wars are fought, young men fight in the wars,
Speaker 8: and like you said, it just like kind of your
Speaker 8: place in space and time really determines your life. In
Speaker 8: his place in space and time was he was twenty
Speaker 8: four during the Civil War, so he was in it,
Speaker 8: and so I wasn't terribly surprised. And he lived in Arkansas,
Speaker 8: which I didn't know that. But yeah, I thought it
Speaker 8: was a pretty pretty interesting episode. One thing that did
Speaker 8: really surprise me was the part about Native Americans having slaves,
Speaker 8: that part I would have never I would have never known.
Speaker 8: So I thought that that was definitely not something I expected,
Speaker 8: and kind of I don't know, that really stuck out
Speaker 8: to me because it was just I like the way
Speaker 8: Jad said it. Usually like we try to categorize things
Speaker 8: into the oppressed and the oppressors, but then when you
Speaker 8: have the oppressed oppressing the oppressed, you just have a
Speaker 8: complex human or just a human that is complex like
Speaker 8: every human. And it just kind of goes back to
Speaker 8: what we've been talking about this whole series, is that
Speaker 8: things aren't always understood at a glance.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Do you think I was fair in my
Speaker 1: assessment of thinking about the reasons Thomas J. NUKM would
Speaker 1: have fought in the Civil War. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: looking to like stir up controversy, but you could somebody
Speaker 1: could say, Clay, You're you're casting a lot of shade
Speaker 1: on your you know, ancestor that fought in the war.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I wasn't really trying to do that,
Speaker 1: but I just I guess I could hear a voice
Speaker 1: saying that, because I was like, I don't think he
Speaker 1: had I don't think he had slaves. I don't know that,
Speaker 1: but I would say with almost certainty he did not.
Speaker 3: Has he lived in the Washington's right, he did?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just they just didn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: money anyway, any any thoughts on that bear?
Speaker 8: But what was the exact question? Was it unjust the
Speaker 8: way that you described it?
Speaker 1: Oh, just just like I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: want to justify maybe the actions of their ancestors, or I.
Speaker 3: Think you have some thoughts about this.
Speaker 1: Well, I was just I just the whole thing was like,
Speaker 1: why do people fought? And I don't know why Thomas
Speaker 1: James Nukom fought. I assumed it was just like civic duty.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's fair?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I thought you were fair.
Speaker 5: I mean I thought like I think you were saying, Hey,
Speaker 5: there's just because of the place that he was from.
Speaker 5: I kind of doubt some of this stuff. But there's
Speaker 5: a there's a book called Generations, and it's also by
Speaker 5: a lady. I think her first name is Genie as well. Anyway,
Speaker 5: But the biggest predictor of what people believe is the
Speaker 5: generation they're born in. So we like to think that
Speaker 5: our family and our values and all sorts of things
Speaker 5: shape what we believe. But like Bear's generation is likely
Speaker 5: to believe stuff that his grandparents don't believe, or you know,
Speaker 5: perceive things as okay or I'm not saying you should.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying it is. It is you're more likely to.
Speaker 5: And I think that there's a level of that inside
Speaker 5: of all of this, Like there is some part of
Speaker 5: this where you know, whether you were born in Pennsylvania
Speaker 5: or you were born in Georgia would have made a
Speaker 5: huge difference in what you thought about the institution of
Speaker 5: slavery and about in which side you fought on in
Speaker 5: the Civil War. I mean, there's just no way around that.
Speaker 5: And I think that you were, you know, for a
Speaker 5: gotcha journalist like JD.
Speaker 3: Just I'm just kidding. I thought you.
Speaker 5: I thought it was it fit the way you you've
Speaker 5: approached the whole thing. Would just I've just got questions
Speaker 5: and I'm trying to understand.
Speaker 1: Earlier today, Brooks, we were talking about how the different
Speaker 1: generations have looked at the Civil War, and I think
Speaker 1: you said that like today's generations would be maybe less
Speaker 1: interested in or less how did we say, excuse me,
Speaker 1: there would be less like Bear saying maybe this doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that much to him that his ancestor fought in
Speaker 1: the ward. I don't know, would that be characteristic of
Speaker 1: this generation maybe?
Speaker 6: I think so. You know, I've I've been teaching long
Speaker 6: enough now to have you know, encountered really truly different
Speaker 6: generations in the classroom. And I think, just from my
Speaker 6: my own personal experience, again with my limited number of
Speaker 6: of students that that I encounter, I think there probably
Speaker 6: is less investment in Civil War history now than there
Speaker 6: would have been twenty you know, back in the late
Speaker 6: nineties when I started teaching. I think there's probably maybe
Speaker 6: even less knowledge about what happened, less interest in it. Again,
Speaker 6: I think that the Civil War still occupies a place
Speaker 6: of real importance for a lot of people in the
Speaker 6: United States. But I don't get the sense that that,
Speaker 6: especially young men are in the South, are growing up,
Speaker 6: you know, with that same sort of passion for studying
Speaker 6: the Civil War that you talked about having, and you know,
Speaker 6: talking about with your friends, and that I had as
Speaker 6: a kid.
Speaker 4: And I think a lot.
Speaker 6: Of this is, as you know, we've talked about, it's
Speaker 6: just getting farther and farther away from the event that
Speaker 6: you know, those memories received, and you know, for good
Speaker 6: and bad, they they don't mean as much. They're not
Speaker 6: as yeah as reletive. I mean, I I was, I
Speaker 6: was born long enough ago that I still well remember
Speaker 6: several people who were born in the nineteenth century. And
Speaker 6: you know, these were folks who were may have been
Speaker 6: the children or that most grandchildren of Civil War veterans
Speaker 6: and people who lived through the Civil War. So so
Speaker 6: as a kid, you know, fifty years ago I was,
Speaker 6: I was closer to this, So it would only make
Speaker 6: sense that that it would mean a little bit more
Speaker 6: and that it would be part more part of, you know,
Speaker 6: the environment that I grew up in than it would
Speaker 6: be for for somebody bears age.
Speaker 8: And also whenever I say it doesn't mean anything to me,
Speaker 8: Like I think it's interesting, but I I think a
Speaker 8: lot of people would like hear that their great great
Speaker 8: great grandfather fought for the Confederacy and like feel some
Speaker 8: sort of guilt about it. That's what I meant, Like
Speaker 8: it doesn't like I feel no real connection to that.
Speaker 8: Like I feel like a lot of people feel guilt
Speaker 8: for what their ancestors might have done people before them,
Speaker 8: But I don't personally feel connected to that at all.
Speaker 7: Yeah, probably probably both ways, either guilt or identity from that.
Speaker 7: Do you feel like do you feel like, you know,
Speaker 7: we were talking about this the other day, my ancestors
Speaker 7: came to the United States after the Civil War. Do
Speaker 7: you feel like you're more inclined to be interested in
Speaker 7: studying that knowing that you're a seventh generation ar Kanson.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it came out that I didn't really
Speaker 1: know the details. I did know that they fought in
Speaker 1: the Civil War for the Confederacy. That was just like
Speaker 1: right general the state the one cent Thans that I knew,
Speaker 1: but it obviously didn't mean enough for me to go
Speaker 1: right look it up. I mean I tried a couple
Speaker 1: of times, but so I don't I don't know but
Speaker 1: it But I think what what we talked about earlier
Speaker 1: today was that you know, where you're from does kind
Speaker 1: of dictate your interest A lot of times it feels like,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 7: You know that it was discussed with JD about do
Speaker 7: you think there were Northerners that that still talk about
Speaker 7: their ancestors and the war and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 7: You know, I've got lots of family from from up North,
Speaker 7: and I've never heard anybody talk about about the Civil
Speaker 7: War when I've been up there, you know, even people
Speaker 7: who had who are from that that area generations back.
Speaker 7: I feel like that's much stronger in the South.
Speaker 1: Well, the war was fought here, right, That's part of it, right,
Speaker 1: is that we're reminded of I'm reminded of it basically daily.
Speaker 1: Driving into Fable, Arkansas, there's sign that says Prairie Grove
Speaker 1: Civil National Battlefield or something. I mean, and I mean
Speaker 1: it's kind of subconscious. You see the sign, you don't
Speaker 1: even think about it. But but it's like there's memorials
Speaker 1: to the war all over.
Speaker 5: The place, which in itself, I mean, if you step
Speaker 5: back and look at it in the context of the
Speaker 5: US history, that is odd.
Speaker 3: You know, that is that's unusual. Why do you say
Speaker 3: that you'd have Confederate Confederate.
Speaker 5: I think around here, well, around the South, I think
Speaker 5: you would have.
Speaker 3: You would have a lot of or there.
Speaker 2: Used to be. I feel like a lot of that
Speaker 2: stuff is fading.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but there's still battle.
Speaker 5: I'm saying about our childhood and things like that, there
Speaker 5: would be there's battlefield parks, But then there's also there's
Speaker 5: I think that there's a lot of symbolism. That's especially
Speaker 5: when we were growing up. I don't think Bear has
Speaker 5: seen as much of it. Like I kind of grilled
Speaker 5: them after Clay. It kind of made me question, Like,
Speaker 5: I wonder because I completely understood what Clay was saying
Speaker 5: on the first podcast, because I I grew up.
Speaker 3: In the same.
Speaker 5: Area, in the same mindset, And I asked Baron, it
Speaker 5: was obvious to me we did not bring that into
Speaker 5: that was not past that I.
Speaker 1: Was quite on purpose. Yeah, I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: the influence that I had growing up could have been
Speaker 1: really negative. I think it was negative for a lot
Speaker 1: of my friends, just a just a irrelevant identity to
Speaker 1: something that would ultimately lead to a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: And so to me it just became really interesting. And
Speaker 1: so when I hear about my ancestor, Thomas J. Newcomb,
Speaker 1: it's not interesting because I have some like pride that
Speaker 1: he fought in the Confederacy or something. I mean, like
Speaker 1: when you see what this was all about, it's like, man,
Speaker 1: this this is not great the way this aw went down,
Speaker 1: But I still am it's very interesting to me just
Speaker 1: in that this guy has my same last name, what
Speaker 1: he went through what he would have saw, and you know,
Speaker 1: so that that's to me why it's.
Speaker 8: Interesting, you know, yeah, and I do think it's kind
Speaker 8: it is interesting to see where your ancestors came from,
Speaker 8: because you kind of see how that shaped your life.
Speaker 8: Like a few years ago, my uncle your brother, showed
Speaker 8: a video of Leu and Newcombe talking about his life
Speaker 8: story and how he moved to California and then got
Speaker 8: saved and moved back to Arkansas. And I just thought
Speaker 8: about how different my life would have been if he
Speaker 8: didn't find God in California moved back to Arkansas and
Speaker 8: he stayed in California, Like, my life would be radically different.
Speaker 8: And so it is kind of interesting to hear about
Speaker 8: Thomas Newcomb potentially eating mule meat and rats there at
Speaker 8: the war. It's just kind of interesting to think about
Speaker 8: that stuff and how it shave my life.
Speaker 1: Way down the line. You don't really know, it's hard
Speaker 1: to predict that pack to that, but Lewin nukemb my grandfather,
Speaker 1: your great grandfather, such a and that's what I said
Speaker 1: on the episode, Uh, you know, like how really recently
Speaker 1: this was like his great grandfather, who you know, I
Speaker 1: went to. I said it lown Newcomb used to take
Speaker 1: me to Robert Newcomb's old home place. Thomas J. Neuwkelem
Speaker 1: was Robert Newcomb's dad. His dad fought in the Civil War,
Speaker 1: so Lewin k Newkelemb was heavily influenced by a man
Speaker 1: whose father fought in the Civil War. And you don't
Speaker 1: know what that no, no, but loun Nukemb also had
Speaker 1: a bronze star from World War Two from shooting down
Speaker 1: Japanese planes that he never told us. We never knew
Speaker 1: until after he died. Yeah, wild, I mean, so like
Speaker 1: these guys weren't interested that this wasn't I guarantee you.
Speaker 1: Most of those guys had no I guarantee you. Thomas J.
Speaker 1: Neukelem was like I bet he never breathe the word
Speaker 1: of the Civil War most the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: I just have a feeling like they were just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, my dad's the same way. My dad was
Speaker 1: in Vietnam for a couple of years. That's the last
Speaker 1: thing he wants to talk about. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: have price stuff out of him. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of generations later, it seems really interesting and cool,
Speaker 1: and you want people to talk about it. But I
Speaker 1: mean most of those guys when they got out of
Speaker 1: the war, they were like, that is not what we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about today, but.
Speaker 7: Which I respect, you know what I mean, there are
Speaker 7: guys that there are guys who spent time in wars
Speaker 7: who that's all they want to talk about because that's
Speaker 7: where they draw their identity from. And to me, it
Speaker 7: shows just a level of maturity that that's not the
Speaker 7: thing that you pull your identity from, but really it's
Speaker 7: the way you live that well.
Speaker 1: And there's different levels of engagement. Gary Neukom would be
Speaker 1: the first to tell you that he was in the
Speaker 1: post office in Vietnam. R. That's different than being a
Speaker 1: Navy seal that went in and killed Osama Bin Laden.
Speaker 1: Not to bring up Ben Lauden, but uh, but you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, like that guy is probably different than most
Speaker 1: people in the military. So not to say that you
Speaker 1: can't you know anybody that takes right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm not trying to say that if you discuss
Speaker 7: that you're immature, but I think just allowing your life
Speaker 7: to have to find meaning in your life, and sometimes
Speaker 7: that meaning is what you sacrificed inside of that. But
Speaker 7: you know, there's lots of sacrifices that happened off the
Speaker 7: battlefield that really I really define who people are.
Speaker 1: Brooks, What do you think about people like the way
Speaker 1: any commentary on just what we're discussing, like how stuff
Speaker 1: is maybe not talked about, or how people handle their
Speaker 1: history with this stuff.
Speaker 4: You know, one of the.
Speaker 6: One of the things that's happened in Civil War history
Speaker 6: is that, you know, we we spent so many years
Speaker 6: writing stories about battles and you know, generals and all
Speaker 6: that kind of stuff, writing kind of the big obvious stuff,
Speaker 6: and a lot of the military history is that the
Speaker 6: way the the academic world works is you know, when
Speaker 6: you get you get a you're working on a PhD.
Speaker 6: You've got to write a dissertation and you've got it.
Speaker 6: It's got to be new research. It's got to be
Speaker 6: something new or a reinterpretation of something else. And so
Speaker 6: I've noticed in the last several years that that probably
Speaker 6: even more popular than writing civil war history is writing
Speaker 6: about the way we remember Civil War history. Now now
Speaker 6: scholars write entire books about how the US and how
Speaker 6: specific populations within the United States remembers the Civil War.
Speaker 6: I don't I don't know that it's that they've run
Speaker 6: out of stuff, you know, to write about the actual
Speaker 6: Civil War. But but it is, you know, it's it's
Speaker 6: far enough. We're more than a century and a half
Speaker 6: separated from that event now, and so the way we
Speaker 6: remember it has changed over years, and it's even changed
Speaker 6: in the South. You know, you don't have to go
Speaker 6: back too many years when groups like the United Daughters
Speaker 6: of the Confederacy and the Sons of the Confederacy and
Speaker 6: groups like that kind of dominated the rhetoric around how
Speaker 6: we remember the Civil War and sort of a celebratory
Speaker 6: kind of thing and the Lost Cause, and you know
Speaker 6: that that sort of thing, uh, and you know, we
Speaker 6: don't we don't really do that anymore. There are still
Speaker 6: people who who probably have those ideas about what the
Speaker 6: Civil War means to them, but it's it's one of
Speaker 6: those things that it's become less less acceptable, I guess
Speaker 6: to you know, to talk about that in a public
Speaker 6: forum and to celebrate.
Speaker 1: When was the climax of that?
Speaker 5: And can you explain a little bit about what that is?
Speaker 5: Like the Lost Cause? I think that that's a really
Speaker 5: that's something that my brother getting.
Speaker 1: Into that in later episodes gotch no no, it's okay
Speaker 1: if we say it, though we've already talked about it.
Speaker 5: Because we're talking about it, people might not be able
Speaker 5: to articulate what that is.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's uh in the South, and it doesn't pop
Speaker 6: up immediately, but about a generation or so after the
Speaker 6: end of the Civil War, you have the rise of
Speaker 6: sort of the the celebration of this cause that has
Speaker 6: that has failed, the lost cause of the South. You know,
Speaker 6: it's it's it's wrapped up around ideas of, you know,
Speaker 6: our love for the underdog. The South was certainly outnumbered
Speaker 6: and out supplied and all that kind of stuff. So
Speaker 6: part of it's kind of an underdog story. But also
Speaker 6: it's this idea that that Southerners rationalize their roles in
Speaker 6: the war, told themselves as a kind of a balm,
Speaker 6: you know, to ease the pain of suffering this defeat,
Speaker 6: that that that theirs was really a righteous cause, that
Speaker 6: they were, that they were morally superior to the to
Speaker 6: the North in this in this cause that they were fighting,
Speaker 6: and that it was only because there were you know,
Speaker 6: almost three times as many Northerners as there were Southerners,
Speaker 6: and they had more material and all that more money
Speaker 6: and all that kind of stuff that the that the
Speaker 6: South lost and so that uh, and that really takes
Speaker 6: root in the eighteen nineties and early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 4: Around the same.
Speaker 6: Time that that you're you know, starting to see racial
Speaker 6: violence rack parts of the United States and the lynchings
Speaker 6: and things like that. I mean, it's all you know,
Speaker 6: there is a it's kind of a yeah, it's a
Speaker 6: kind of a combo thing. And and that's when you
Speaker 6: start to see groups like the United Daughters of the
Speaker 6: Confederacy and the Sons of the Confederacy and these and
Speaker 6: that's when you really start to see these big reunions
Speaker 6: of Confederate veterans and Union veterans do this too, and
Speaker 6: and and the Union on the Union side, you had
Speaker 6: your bloody shirt patriotism as historians call it, and the
Speaker 6: kind of rate, you know, waving the bloody flag and
Speaker 6: elections and so all this stuff is going on, and
Speaker 6: it's a it's kind of a first they're they're far
Speaker 6: enough away from the Civil War by the end of
Speaker 6: the nineteenth century to sort of look back and start
Speaker 6: remembering things, and you know, it's not that immediate. And
Speaker 6: and that's how these narratives get started. About what the
Speaker 6: war was about. And so people in the North have
Speaker 6: have their idea about what the war was about. People
Speaker 6: in the South, many of them, especially confess and their descendants,
Speaker 6: have their ideas of what the war was about. And
Speaker 6: that and that continues. That's, you know, that's the beginning
Speaker 6: of Confederate monuments. Those though, those will you know, there's
Speaker 6: another flurry of monument building that happens during the Civil
Speaker 6: Rights movement, which is more a sort of you know,
Speaker 6: direct kind of in your face. We're you know, we're
Speaker 6: not we're not putting up with this and and we're
Speaker 6: going to kind of reinforce our our you know, supremacy
Speaker 6: here by you know, recognizing our Confederate ancestors. But so
Speaker 6: so that the whole idea of how we remember, how
Speaker 6: we craft the narrative of the Civil War, and how
Speaker 6: we've been doing that, you know, for one hundred and
Speaker 6: twenty or one hundred and thirty years, is it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 6: And we're, i mean, we're part of that right now.
Speaker 6: I mean we're setting around one hundred and sixty something
Speaker 6: years after the Civil War talking about the Civil War.
Speaker 6: So I mean we're we're participating in that and you know,
Speaker 6: maybe maybe we'll become part of somebody's research out there,
Speaker 6: if a sociologist is researching or Civil War memory. And
Speaker 6: you know, it's still it's still going on, and so
Speaker 6: it still means something, but it almost certainly means something
Speaker 6: different because of that whole that whole concept you were
Speaker 6: talking about with the generations that you know, these generations
Speaker 6: see it in a different way.
Speaker 4: And I think.
Speaker 6: Bears generation has probably and hopefully not inherited as many
Speaker 6: of the negative things that can come up with you know,
Speaker 6: celebrating the Civil War and remembering the Civil War as
Speaker 6: as people from you know, from our age. I realize
Speaker 6: I'm quite a bit older than you guys, but you
Speaker 6: know that from my age and from your age. Uh,
Speaker 6: and a lot of that is just you know, every
Speaker 6: the farther you get away from that, the more, I
Speaker 6: should say, probably the the less racist we become as
Speaker 6: a society. You know, the less the les the less
Speaker 6: we passed that on down to succeeding. So it gets
Speaker 6: it gets deluded. You know, you kind of hope it
Speaker 6: doesn't necessarily have to work that way, but you hope
Speaker 6: that the more racist, you know, Confederate celebration part of
Speaker 6: that gets deluded every generation. And that's coming from I mean,
Speaker 6: I'm a guy who most most of my ancestors who
Speaker 6: fought in the Civil War were Confederates, and I don't
Speaker 6: And like I was telling Clay earlier, when I started
Speaker 6: reading about the Civil War in high school, I was
Speaker 6: pulling for the South, you know, as a as a
Speaker 6: as a white kid from Arkansas, I find myself, you know,
Speaker 6: well this would have happened at Shallow we would have won.
Speaker 4: You know, when the wei was for me was was
Speaker 4: the South.
Speaker 6: So uh, you know, I I I understand that, you
Speaker 6: know that motivation? Uh, And I and I and and
Speaker 6: I also understand why how you can look back like
Speaker 6: Barrick and look back and you don't have to be
Speaker 6: I don't think you have to be ashamed of your
Speaker 6: ancestors because they grew up in a completely different time
Speaker 6: that we can't understand. I mean, we weren't from that generation,
Speaker 6: and they were inculcated with certain ideas and taught certain
Speaker 6: things that that we weren't taught. And uh, and we're
Speaker 6: you know, we're so often trapped in whatever whatever our
Speaker 6: generation is. It's it's hard to it's hard to get
Speaker 6: beyond that, and and to expect our ancestors to have
Speaker 6: made decisions that we probably wouldn't have made either had
Speaker 6: we been raised the same way they were. That's that's
Speaker 6: a little much. What I what I prefer to focus
Speaker 6: on is is the ones who who kind of stepped
Speaker 6: outside of the rare, ones who stepped outside of their
Speaker 6: worlds and and made decisions that now seem kind of
Speaker 6: heroic and unusual to us. And most of us living
Speaker 6: today aren't going to make those decisions in our own
Speaker 6: day and time.
Speaker 4: We're gonna sort.
Speaker 6: Of fall in lockstep and uh and do what do
Speaker 6: what most other people do? So uh, the whole that
Speaker 6: whole idea of remembering the Civil Wars, it's a complex thing,
Speaker 6: and it's a it's a it's almost as important I
Speaker 6: think the Civil War historians now as the actual war itself.
Speaker 4: Just how we remember it. The war is only four years.
Speaker 6: We've been re rememering that thing for a lot longer
Speaker 6: than that.
Speaker 1: This connects to something Misty and I've been talking about
Speaker 1: about how human communication are, well, how how would I
Speaker 1: describe it?
Speaker 5: Are you talking about just how we are so example
Speaker 5: that the cultural influence that are.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that. But but basically of how it's important,
Speaker 1: it's as important how we remember something is equally important
Speaker 1: to actually what happened, and it may even be more
Speaker 1: important how we remember it. And and I was speaking
Speaker 1: with a guy the other day, interview a guest, and
Speaker 1: I told him that the Barry Lopez's book about the Inuit,
Speaker 1: he described how the Inuit, when they drew maps, they
Speaker 1: would make the topographic features that were important to them
Speaker 1: for hunting much bigger than they actually were. And he
Speaker 1: described how he said, oh, yeah, everybody does that. All
Speaker 1: the people that drew maps kind of in the old
Speaker 1: world did that. And he said, yeah, we now think
Speaker 1: about a map as a factual piece of information. Does
Speaker 1: it actually reflect the actual geography of that place? And
Speaker 1: the facts are really important, But the idea of a
Speaker 1: map was actually to convey who cares if the map
Speaker 1: is factually accurate. I'm a human and I want you
Speaker 1: to know where the hunting's good. I want my kids
Speaker 1: to know where the hunting's good. And like, so I'm
Speaker 1: what I'm really trying to do by drawing a map
Speaker 1: is tell you where the hunting's good so you can survive,
Speaker 1: you know. And so they had these maps that weren't
Speaker 1: accurate but showed the human emphasis in a certain place.
Speaker 1: And he and he this guy you'll hear him months
Speaker 1: from now. On the episode he talked about how that's
Speaker 1: are it's a pretty powerful way to communicate. But you
Speaker 1: see the connection between like how we think about the
Speaker 1: Civil War versus what actually happened, you know, because the
Speaker 1: way we talk about it is.
Speaker 3: Actually like a map of history.
Speaker 5: It's a it's a mental map, is what you're you're saying, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: and you're you're because the Earth is round, so any
Speaker 5: map is going to have some assumptions and inaccuracies to
Speaker 5: make it flat, right, And and I mean that that
Speaker 5: is that's kind of a long term historical issue, that
Speaker 5: that that the people who were making maps, I mean
Speaker 5: that you go down a rabbit trail in that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But and the point is the way we remember the
Speaker 1: any kind of historical event is actually as important as
Speaker 1: actually what happened, you know, because it means something to us.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that it's.
Speaker 5: It's to me, you know, hearing you talk about paps
Speaker 5: and hear Bear talk about it. Just even today, I
Speaker 5: think about I've had conversations with my family. My grandma
Speaker 5: had Alzheimer's and it was one of those things that
Speaker 5: you kind of saw coming like it started, and so
Speaker 5: we wanted to We kind of got into this thing
Speaker 5: of oh, it's really interesting. I learned a lot about
Speaker 5: our history. It was actually that same summer that we
Speaker 5: did the Arkansas study and I wanted to find out
Speaker 5: why did our people end up in Arkansas?
Speaker 3: And I went and it wasn't great.
Speaker 5: It was I was like, oh, shoot, were those people
Speaker 5: because they were the destitute, you know, they are the
Speaker 5: people that and you hear all these stories and it's like, oh,
Speaker 5: you know, sometimes you hear stories about your family, and
Speaker 5: some of those stories are are more recent. You know,
Speaker 5: not everyone has the paps who changed their lineage and
Speaker 5: shifted the way that things worked in their family. And
Speaker 5: I just think it's what you're describing, that those rare
Speaker 5: heroic people who step outside of their culture and who
Speaker 5: step outside of their experience and do something that heroism.
Speaker 5: Anybody can do that. I mean, anybody can do that
Speaker 5: at any time and.
Speaker 2: Change and has a capacity to do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyone has Anyone can do that.
Speaker 5: Anyone can change the the lineage of their future generations
Speaker 5: by stepping outside of what is familiar and what is
Speaker 5: cultural and and I think that's that's the power of
Speaker 5: personal transformation. And there were things that I saw on
Speaker 5: my mom as an I was an adult when I
Speaker 5: saw her starting to change things, I was, I mean,
Speaker 5: a young adult, and it was inspirational to me to say, Okay,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I'm gonna build some different things inside of
Speaker 5: our family. I want, I want to I want to
Speaker 5: do what she's doing. And it changed things about the
Speaker 5: way my kids think, and it changed things about there
Speaker 5: and hopefully they'll take that even further. You know, that's
Speaker 5: the idea that you want your kids to take those
Speaker 5: things even further.
Speaker 3: But I think that's kind of part of the power
Speaker 3: of the story.
Speaker 5: If you let it be, there can be a version
Speaker 5: of the story where we're just mad at anyone, uh.
Speaker 5: And and that's where the simple storyline of oppressed and
Speaker 5: oppressors doesn't just is not ever going to work. When
Speaker 5: you're looking at history, it's always so much more complex
Speaker 5: than that. But you know, there that is part of
Speaker 5: the story. And I think sometimes, especially in recent history,
Speaker 5: there's been this trend to just kind of look so
Speaker 5: harshly at the at the past and at people in
Speaker 5: the past, and and that you know, they did things
Speaker 5: wrong and we should say that and we should learn
Speaker 5: from that. But I think it's it's really important that
Speaker 5: right now, while we can change things, that we also
Speaker 5: look at at the familiar and the things that we
Speaker 5: that we need to change, the things that we're not
Speaker 5: proud of in our own in our own life and
Speaker 5: our own lineage, and recognize that we can change. We
Speaker 5: can change things for generations down the down the way,
Speaker 5: And I think that's that's important and valuable, valuable thing.
Speaker 5: But it almost always requires you to step out of
Speaker 5: what is familiar to you. And that's that's difficult because
Speaker 5: it's very different to not think like everyone around you.
Speaker 5: And so if dysfunction is what's around you, I'm kind
Speaker 5: of going into like a personal growth and development here,
Speaker 5: kind of shifting from the Civil War.
Speaker 3: But just hearing Bearraze talk about that made me think
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Josh, what stod out to you? Well, just the
Speaker 1: whole episode.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it was. You know, honestly, I don't.
Speaker 7: I don't know a lot about the Civil War and
Speaker 7: I didn't until now. I didn't until now, and I've
Speaker 7: got you know, I've gotten kind of the shotgun blast
Speaker 7: of the Civil War, and it's like just kind of
Speaker 7: tying in with what Misty's saying. You know, we we
Speaker 7: have this phrase we talk about a lot in our
Speaker 7: group of friends. We say a backward glance for forward advance.
Speaker 7: And I think, I think it's been really good for
Speaker 7: me to learn about this. I think you can it's
Speaker 7: easy to just be oblivious and not care, but I
Speaker 7: think we have to care because I think if we
Speaker 7: don't know the past, we don't know how to be
Speaker 7: better in the future. So I you know, just just
Speaker 7: looking at at this episode, there were some really interesting
Speaker 7: things in there. I didn't know that that the Native
Speaker 7: Americans had slaves. I didn't know that there were I
Speaker 7: didn't know that there were Native American regiments in the Confederacy.
Speaker 7: I mean, that's that's fascinating. I mean, the the cross
Speaker 7: cultural I actually got online and looked up stand Waddie
Speaker 7: and just you know, saw his picture and saw you
Speaker 7: know what I mean, thinking about what was the motivation
Speaker 7: of this guy.
Speaker 2: To to fight?
Speaker 7: And uh, yeah, it it really just makes you evaluate,
Speaker 7: you know, people's intentions and people's motives, and you know,
Speaker 7: you try to put yourself in their in their position
Speaker 7: and uh, and then once you do that, you have
Speaker 7: to figure out how to use that to become better.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I guess that is a question, and I'll offer to
Speaker 1: you Brooks, like, what's what's the value inside of talking
Speaker 1: about this? I mean, there's there's part of me sometimes
Speaker 1: when I tell some stories, I have to ask myself that,
Speaker 1: you know, like it is some of this stuff just better,
Speaker 1: like completely forgotten? And obviously I don't believe that, but
Speaker 1: sometimes I have a hard time articulating why it's valuable
Speaker 1: to look back and drag up some of this, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of rough history. What do you why is it valuable?
Speaker 6: I think specifically when you're talking about the Civil War
Speaker 6: and anything to do with the Civil War, because it
Speaker 6: is so fundamental to American history, it is so central
Speaker 6: to our identity still today that somebody's going to be
Speaker 6: talking about it, you know, somebody, somebody's going to bring it.
Speaker 4: Up and and and I think.
Speaker 6: It's crucial that we try to understand it as clearly
Speaker 6: and objectively as we can.
Speaker 4: Now that that's.
Speaker 6: Not always possible, and we all bring our own perspectives
Speaker 6: to to everything, and even historians, UH University trained historians.
Speaker 6: Their perspectives on the civil word change over generations, and
Speaker 6: they look at different things, look at things in different ways.
Speaker 6: So I think that's part of it is. I mean,
Speaker 6: we're we're going to be talking about this, so we
Speaker 6: might as well try to get it right, and we
Speaker 6: might as well try to let people know what really
Speaker 6: happened and and and why why it happened. And I
Speaker 6: think for a for a historian, I know, I guess
Speaker 6: I can only speak for myself. I mean that that
Speaker 6: I have this h this compulsion I guess you would
Speaker 6: call it too, to get things as close to exactly right,
Speaker 6: exactly factually correct as I possibly can, because I think
Speaker 6: that's that's the only it's the only responsible way you
Speaker 6: can you can do history, and and about the only
Speaker 6: way you can do that is to do bottom up
Speaker 6: history and to go back in and and do things
Speaker 6: like you've been doing with that Bear book. Is going
Speaker 6: back and doing this research that takes you right back
Speaker 6: to these primary sources and primary documents. That's why history
Speaker 6: professors are always talking about you. You've got to go
Speaker 6: back to the sources. You've got to look at the
Speaker 6: primary sources and and and recreate history from from what
Speaker 6: we from what we have, and and that you know,
Speaker 6: that hopefully keeps us from flying off in all different directions,
Speaker 6: taking a couple of facts here in a couple of
Speaker 6: facts there, and making these big sweeping generalizations about things
Speaker 6: that may not actually have happened. And of course people
Speaker 6: are going to do that. It's just a word.
Speaker 4: That's kind of human nature to make generalizations.
Speaker 6: But but I see it as the role of of
Speaker 6: historian is to just try to get the story.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 6: And and even the word right is probably not even
Speaker 6: a usable word right there, because you know, what does
Speaker 6: that even mean? But but you know, I just and
Speaker 6: that's that's one of the things I, you know, I
Speaker 6: try to hammer into my students is is right, you know,
Speaker 6: bottom up history and not not top down history. Uh,
Speaker 6: knowing what you want to say, and then finding the
Speaker 6: facts to build this argument. You you, you know, you
Speaker 6: look at the stuff and then build your argument from
Speaker 6: that and and hopefully you know, hopefully that's a that's
Speaker 6: a reasonable way to go about this.
Speaker 4: Mm hm, you know this.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you, did you you listen to
Speaker 1: these episodes? Did they did anything anything stand out to
Speaker 1: you just you you told me you listened to all
Speaker 1: three of them.
Speaker 4: I did. I did.
Speaker 6: One of the things that stood out to me was
Speaker 6: I wasn't surprised at all when I got to the
Speaker 6: end of episode three and we weren't anywhere close to halfway.
Speaker 1: As he was driving to my office, right, yeah, And.
Speaker 4: I thought, yeah, I mean, and and that was a
Speaker 4: good thing for me.
Speaker 6: I mean, if you're gonna even even you know, using
Speaker 6: your phrase dipping the bucket into the ocean of what
Speaker 6: or what however you phrased that of Civil war history,
Speaker 6: even doing that, you know you couldn't do justice to
Speaker 6: any of this with a with even a three episode
Speaker 6: or I mean that just you know that you just couldn't.
Speaker 4: You couldn't do that.
Speaker 6: So so I wasn't surprised at all that this thing
Speaker 6: just kind of got out of control.
Speaker 2: Idayall.
Speaker 4: I didn't.
Speaker 6: I didn't have to know anything that went on behind
Speaker 6: the scenes to to realize you've you've grabbed something wild
Speaker 6: and crazy and you've got to deal with it for
Speaker 6: a while.
Speaker 1: I mean, sorry, everybody, it's.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 6: I was so, I was, really I was really glad
Speaker 6: about that, because I think you've done a good John
Speaker 6: I think J D.
Speaker 4: Hewett. I I don't know JD.
Speaker 6: Hewett, but I was really impressed with with his contributions
Speaker 6: and I'm sure he's he's going to keep, you know,
Speaker 6: contributing to the to this thing. I think he've done
Speaker 6: a good job of of of approaching the subject as
Speaker 6: objectively as you can, not avoiding, you know, some difficult
Speaker 6: discussions that you have to have with a with a
Speaker 6: topic like the Civil War, but not you know, going
Speaker 6: on tangents that you know, take you way, you know,
Speaker 6: away from any sort of you know, central.
Speaker 4: Focus that you got.
Speaker 6: So uh yeah, I've really I've really enjoyed it. And
Speaker 6: and uh and you know that the thing about the
Speaker 6: Cherokees was, uh, you know, that's just one of so
Speaker 6: many hundreds of really fascinating topics that you could take
Speaker 6: these little detours like that. I mean, the the Civil
Speaker 6: Wars just just full of those stories. And I loved
Speaker 6: that that Cherokee story. And I would guess that that
Speaker 6: JD got way more detailed with that than comes out
Speaker 6: in the episode, because you know, there's that story is
Speaker 6: so nuanced, and I think you guys did a good
Speaker 6: job with the nuances because you know, you think about it.
Speaker 6: I was thinking about that listening to it on the
Speaker 6: way over. If you're if you're a Cherokee in eighteen
Speaker 6: sixty one, you don't have a good relationship with the
Speaker 6: US government. At the same time, if you've allied yourself
Speaker 6: with the Confederate Government, as the Cherokee initially did, many
Speaker 6: of them reluctantly, so they didn't they didn't want it,
Speaker 6: they didn't want to be involved, one way or another,
Speaker 6: most of them didn't. Then you've you've allied yourself with
Speaker 6: someone who's just a slight offshoot of this crazy oppressive
Speaker 6: government you've been you've been dealing with these years, and
Speaker 6: that ran you, you know, out of your your ancestral
Speaker 6: homeland in the South. And then you get to the
Speaker 6: Battle of pe Ridge, and I can only imagine that
Speaker 6: some of that scalping was just it was just an
Speaker 6: outgrowth of just sort of pure disillusionment with the whole thing.
Speaker 6: You know, you've been sucked into this war that you
Speaker 6: don't want any part of. Whatever happens, the outcome for
Speaker 6: you is probably not going to be all that great.
Speaker 6: And here you are fighting on the side of one
Speaker 6: group of you know, these these Americans against another group
Speaker 6: of Americans. And it's not that you know, scalping is
Speaker 6: is ever a great thing, but you can kind of
Speaker 6: see where this could be a manifestation of just this
Speaker 6: sort of madness that these people find themselves in the
Speaker 6: middle of. And and truly, by by the end of
Speaker 6: the Civil War, most of those Cherokees have have probably
Speaker 6: either switched sides to the because many of them later
Speaker 6: switched to the Union side, or they just sort of
Speaker 6: dropped out of the whole thing altogether because they were
Speaker 6: also products of their own civil wars. As JD mentioned,
Speaker 6: that Cherokee Civil War had been going on for years
Speaker 6: and and so it's just such a complex thing and
Speaker 6: such an unexpected thing. Like Josh said, you know, if
Speaker 6: you're if you're not privy to that little part of
Speaker 6: Civil War history, it's not something you would expect to
Speaker 6: hear it all. But it's uh, but it's it's a
Speaker 6: fascinating part of it. And I think you guys did
Speaker 6: a did a good job with that, you know, with
Speaker 6: with those nuances and that, and that's what you have
Speaker 6: to dwell on in telling any of these stories, the
Speaker 6: various perspectives and complexities of these stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it would be think about taking today's
Speaker 1: modern issues and trying to distill it into like simple
Speaker 1: narratives just about like you pick pick pick your war
Speaker 1: of the last twenty years. I mean you it would
Speaker 1: be hard to be it'd be hard to simplify in
Speaker 1: a way that would that would actually be accurate for
Speaker 1: the for the whole country. That's that's when I am
Speaker 1: reading McPherson's book, which is you know, like we said,
Speaker 1: just think as an Appalachian Bible and this overview of
Speaker 1: the Civil War. I mean you just realize, holy cow,
Speaker 1: there was so much stuff going on, and so many motivations,
Speaker 1: and so many political factions, and so many economic factors
Speaker 1: and racial stuff going on with Jewish people in the South.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, yeah, you could have gone any direction.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could have had a whole segment, we
Speaker 1: could do a whole series on you know, the Black
Speaker 1: Union Armies and then later the Confederate Black you know,
Speaker 1: towards the end of the war they start recruiting the
Speaker 1: actual slaves that are still enslaves to fight. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, there's point being there's just like a thousand
Speaker 1: different things that you could talk about, and what was
Speaker 1: interesting Brooks said this earlier to me. He said, modern
Speaker 1: civil war scholars have just continued to kind of narrow
Speaker 1: their focuses into like looking in really specific spots. As
Speaker 1: the academic system makes people when they're getting their PhD
Speaker 1: thesis is they have to do something new. And it's
Speaker 1: not really a slight to the academic system. It's just
Speaker 1: the way it works. But like all low hanging fruit's
Speaker 1: kind of been taken. And am I just saying it accurately?
Speaker 1: And you just kind of and and and what you
Speaker 1: find is that when you just narrow in on one
Speaker 1: little spot, there's a ton of stuff there, and a
Speaker 1: lot of these modern civil war academics like know all
Speaker 1: the details of like one war or one one battle
Speaker 1: or yeah, it's just it's interesting. But now I hope
Speaker 1: we come away with just a general understanding of the
Speaker 1: Civil War that you know, you'd kind of maybe by
Speaker 1: highlighting some of these little spots, you kind of get
Speaker 1: a sense. By the time where we end, you know,
Speaker 1: you kind of have a sense of the Civil War. Yep, yep,
Speaker 1: what else?
Speaker 4: Nothing?
Speaker 3: This is a her.
Speaker 1: It's because oh, yes, I meant to say this earlier.
Speaker 1: You you you are in the TA Covia's hot seat.
Speaker 1: Did you see these boots on the chair? Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: those are toa Covia's boots. TA Cova's. To Covia's is
Speaker 1: they of all the boot companies in the world. They're
Speaker 1: the ones that are the partners of the Bear Grease podcast.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you you are going to be given a
Speaker 1: gift certificate of a substantial amount that you'll be able
Speaker 1: to get a pair of Takova's boots or anything in
Speaker 1: their store. They have a full They've got everything. Ye
Speaker 1: shirts have misty, your wife might want.
Speaker 2: To blouse, long sleeves.
Speaker 1: These are These are Toakvia's boots. But they also have
Speaker 1: some kind of boots, not kind of like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have a they have a lace up. So because
Speaker 1: of your sacrifice of dry over here in the rain,
Speaker 1: all the way across the Ozarks, we're going to get
Speaker 1: you a Ta Covi's gift certificate.
Speaker 6: Well, I appreciate that, you know what, I'll I'll make
Speaker 6: an admission on film here and and I'm fifty six
Speaker 6: years old and I have never owned a pair of
Speaker 6: cowboy boots. What in my life? Yeah, I don't believe.
Speaker 6: I don't know that I've ever had had one had
Speaker 6: one own.
Speaker 3: I've you know, the nineties and you didn't have a
Speaker 3: pair of ropers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you lived through the.
Speaker 3: Nineties and Arkansas didn't.
Speaker 7: Have the the fringe on it.
Speaker 1: Not say they've come back more in the style in
Speaker 1: the last fifteen years. There's just cowboys, non cowboys wearing cowboy.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not a cowboy, but I sure like wearing
Speaker 2: the boots.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, closer to a cowboy than most people in the
Speaker 5: in the I mean, you grew up on a farm.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I on a farm, but you know, I didn't
Speaker 6: regularly ride horses or anything.
Speaker 4: We had a horse that I rode a couple of
Speaker 4: times when I when I was a kid.
Speaker 6: But uh, but yeah, I just I've been in boots
Speaker 6: all my life. Work boots they've got they've got some
Speaker 6: nice bots to you. I mean this this may be
Speaker 6: this may be break into the cowboy boot world. And
Speaker 6: I've never had a cowboy hat either, So that.
Speaker 5: To make a change, it's right, trying to step out
Speaker 5: of your comfort zone, out of your culture.
Speaker 1: And well up with you could you would if you
Speaker 1: had a pair of like Josh is wearing a nice
Speaker 1: pair of square toed boots. Those are made of bison
Speaker 1: lee and those are you know, I could see you
Speaker 1: wearing those too a lecture. Yeah, you kind of getting
Speaker 1: just a about that much more respect than if you didn't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, getting getting me up.
Speaker 1: I mean you be a little taller, a little bit,
Speaker 1: you'd be a little He's a.
Speaker 7: Tall, lean guy anyway, and putting boots on him make
Speaker 7: him imposing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would be imposing, especially with the hair gets
Speaker 1: a hair cut every six months.
Speaker 4: The hair is coming on.
Speaker 1: The first time that I introduced Brooks on the Bear
Speaker 1: Grease podcast. Do you remember how I introduced you? Misty
Speaker 1: said she feared I embarrassed you, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't think, I don't think I'm Brooks.
Speaker 6: Did you mention my car? Yeah, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 6: I'm okay as a serial duct taper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was I wouldn't. I've never said
Speaker 1: a single thing on this podcast that was meant to
Speaker 1: be derogatory to a guest. I may have said something
Speaker 1: derogatory to like some villain or something or no, it's
Speaker 1: all in love, all in love, but no. When I
Speaker 1: introduced Brooks, I said, I described his car, which I
Speaker 1: thought was awesome because we were at Missouri State and
Speaker 1: he had he would commute like hours from where you
Speaker 1: live in the Arkansas over to Missouri State. And I
Speaker 1: mean he had a cheap car that had uh you know,
Speaker 1: got good gas mileage and the and the and the
Speaker 1: In the review, the mirror was duct taped onto it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, and this this guy is like
Speaker 1: a genius, written books, just this academic and I just
Speaker 1: was like, I like this. I like this guy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: So now now I come in as your fashion consultant,
Speaker 1: you know, and some some boots.
Speaker 7: Not a fashion guy, but I appreciation guy or a
Speaker 7: bad language fella. Yeah, bad word, bad word fella.
Speaker 3: I respected, I respected.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm I'm excited about this and I yeah, I
Speaker 6: appreciate the covies, thank you cos the gift certificate, and yeah,
Speaker 6: I will be a I'll have here in about a week.
Speaker 6: I'll have short hair, cowboy boots and.
Speaker 3: You could take on the world.
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely absolutely run for Congress, look like Tim McGraw. Also,
Speaker 7: uh tune in stay tuned this week this week for
Speaker 7: a special special episode of Bear Grease, starring a one
Speaker 7: Bear John Newcomb and a Josh Landbridge.
Speaker 4: Spilmaker.
Speaker 1: Is that coming? Is that coming after this render?
Speaker 4: Yep, yep. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I look forward to take to take to the water.
Speaker 2: That's all I'm gonna tell you.
Speaker 4: We take to the water.
Speaker 1: Really looking forward to that. An extra drop on the
Speaker 1: Bear Grease channel, coming straight from these guys having no
Speaker 1: idea what they did. I just know that it probably
Speaker 1: broke all the rules.
Speaker 7: You are correct, you are correct. Yes, hostile takeover of
Speaker 7: bear Grease.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow, wow wow.
Speaker 2: Tune in for that.
Speaker 1: That's gonna be great. Well, thank you for driving over.
Speaker 1: It's been great, and you're gonna hear more from Brooks
Speaker 1: on the next episode of Bear Grease. Fantastic, So foreshadow
Speaker 1: the shadow has been cast, and man, we're gonna just
Speaker 1: keep We're gonna we're gonna keep on this subject. We
Speaker 1: may we may do a break from the Civil War
Speaker 1: for one episode to give a little reprieve. Not not.
Speaker 1: I mean there's gonna be four right at least, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we're just we're just gonna stomp through it until we
Speaker 1: figured it all out.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 3: See what I like.
Speaker 5: To do in the summertime when the kids were little,
Speaker 5: and then when we started the school is just take
Speaker 5: a subject and just kind of immerse yourself in it.
Speaker 3: And it was so fun at the school.
Speaker 5: We would we would take on topics and we would
Speaker 5: just go crazy with it and we do the art
Speaker 5: from that that time period. And that was our summer programs.
Speaker 5: And you know what, a whole bunch of those kids
Speaker 5: really liked history so that you could just Bear's looking
Speaker 5: at me.
Speaker 1: I'll be darn.
Speaker 3: Bear was not one of those kids. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5: But all right, that's what we should that's what you
Speaker 5: should do. You should just advertise we're gonna just spend
Speaker 5: a summer in the Civil War.
Speaker 1: Summer in the Civil War.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 2: Civil War summer, Civil Wars twenty.
Speaker 1: Six, Civil War summer. That's right, that's right, all right,
Speaker 1: thanks everybody for listening. Excuse me for my weird little cough.
Speaker 1: It's almost gone for three weeks. I've had it. Keep
Speaker 1: the wild places wild. That's where the bears live.