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Speaker 1: One of the strangest things about the Man who Fell

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Speaker 1: to Earth is that he's never really left us. Walter

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Speaker 1: Tevis first imagined Thomas Jerome Newton in his nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: three novel as an alien who comes to Earth to

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Speaker 1: save his dying world and instead becomes trapped in ours.

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Speaker 1: The character is one of science fiction's most enduring portraits

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Speaker 1: of alienation. Nicholas Rogue turned that story into the Haunting

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six film with David Bowie, a movie that

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Speaker 1: is now this year celebrating its fiftieth anniversary and still

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Speaker 1: feels like it has arrived from somewhere else. Then the

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Speaker 1: idea resurfaced in a nineteen eighty seven television pilot, returned

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen through David Bowie's stage work Lazarus, and

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Speaker 1: came back again in the twenty twenty two Showtime series

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Speaker 1: with Bill Nye as the older Newton. In this episode,

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Speaker 1: a sound, light and Frequency will be breaking down each

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Speaker 1: version like we did for War of the World's a

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Speaker 1: few episodes back, going through them in chronology, because maybe

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Speaker 1: every generation gets the Thomas Jerome Newton they deserve.

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Speaker 2: Who knows.

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Speaker 1: What we do know is that David Bowie, the person

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Speaker 1: before he became David Bowie the Rock God, was also

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Speaker 1: an experiencer of the UFO phenomenon. We'll be talking about

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Speaker 1: that also in this episode. So this is not just

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Speaker 1: a fan conversation about a cult classic. It's a question

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Speaker 1: about why this one image keeps repeating, the brilliant but

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Speaker 1: broken visitor who cannot go home. Are there any of

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Speaker 1: them actually walking around our planet for real?

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Speaker 2: Brent? How do you account for the staying power of

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Speaker 2: this concept. It's a great question. I would attribute it

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Speaker 2: to the fact that there's a duality to the story.

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Speaker 2: On one hand, there's the fantasy of I've met an alien.

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Speaker 2: I've discovered that there's a lone alien walking on Earth,

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Speaker 2: and I alone have a relationship with them, and they

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Speaker 2: have answers and more insights to them. And especially in

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Speaker 2: the case of this franchise, for the most part, the

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Speaker 2: character of Newton is benevolent or at least neutral, and

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Speaker 2: so it does not pose a threat. I think that

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Speaker 2: idea of the lone alien is also something that creates

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Speaker 2: a little bit of fear. What if they come down

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Speaker 2: and they are hostile? What if I was the one

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Speaker 2: that discovered someone who might hurt me and other people

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Speaker 2: and I'd have to blow the whistle on them. So

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Speaker 2: I think that contained version of a singular alien invasion,

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Speaker 2: if you will, holds a lot of interest because it's

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Speaker 2: a story that is also manageable. It's easy to tell

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Speaker 2: it's much much more of a human story because we're

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Speaker 2: not into a war of the world scenario. And I

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Speaker 2: think that as soon as it becomes two aliens or

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Speaker 2: three aliens, then you're tipping over into alien invasion and

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Speaker 2: you're into a different genre. Amen, brother to all of that.

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Speaker 1: I love doing Soundlite and Frequency for so many reasons.

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Speaker 1: Even if I've seen something before, I have to see

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Speaker 1: it again. And what I find over and over while

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Speaker 1: doing this show with you, Brent, is that I always

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Speaker 1: see it with very different eyes because the times when

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Speaker 1: you see it originally you're experiencing the movie, life goes

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Speaker 1: on and in many cases many years go on. So

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Speaker 1: by the time you see it again, the same person

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Speaker 1: who saw it the first time, and the way you

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Speaker 1: look at it has changed. Society has changed, the whole

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Speaker 1: world has usually changed. Before you see some of these

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Speaker 1: and that applies frankly to something you might have seen

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Speaker 1: three or four years ago. For example, we are going

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Speaker 1: to be later talking about the TV series version that

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Speaker 1: Showtime did, which I saw when it came out in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, but in rewatching that in the last

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Speaker 1: few days, I went, wait a minute, is that.

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Speaker 2: How that worked? WHOA?

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Speaker 1: I can only imagine how anybody who if they listened

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Speaker 1: to this episode says, I want to go back and

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Speaker 1: watch The Man Who Fell to Earth from nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 1: Most of our audience probably it wasn't even alive when

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Speaker 1: it was out the first time, and they'll be in

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Speaker 1: for a treat, of course, But obviously we were there

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Speaker 1: for the original, So you know, what was your first

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Speaker 1: take when you first saw it.

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Speaker 2: My reaction the first time I saw it was quite

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Speaker 2: different than other times that I saw it, and certainly

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Speaker 2: when I saw it recently to get ready for this show.

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Speaker 2: My first encounter her with The Man Who Fell to

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Speaker 2: Earth was I was on a date in high school

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Speaker 2: and it was late and I was with a girl

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Speaker 2: and she didn't want to go home, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to take her home, but what can we do?

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Speaker 2: And it was like, let's go see a movie. Oh

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Speaker 2: that story, forget the movie. Yeah, continue yeah. So at

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Speaker 2: any rate, we got to the theater and it was

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Speaker 2: one of those like Triplex's where there was three movies,

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Speaker 2: and it was like, Okay, what's the next movie playing

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Speaker 2: The Man Who Fell to Earth? Now I was a

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Speaker 2: David Bowie fan at the time, so I thought, I

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Speaker 2: don't care what the movie is, David Bowie's in it,

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Speaker 2: let's just go see it. We had no idea what

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Speaker 2: the movie was. We walked in to see it and

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Speaker 2: it was, if I remember correctly, a midnight showing of

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Speaker 2: the film, because this was after it came out. So

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Speaker 2: we walk in, we sit down, the movie starts, and

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Speaker 2: the thing about the movie the original is, I think

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Speaker 2: I'll be kind and say it's an art film. It

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Speaker 2: was made by Nicholas Rogue, who's made a lot of

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Speaker 2: very of unique movies, and the story is told in

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Speaker 2: non linear fashion, very disjointed, and it's fairly slow paced.

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Speaker 2: And at that point the night, we were a little tired,

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Speaker 2: and about halfway through we both nodded off. By the

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Speaker 2: time the movie ended, we crawled out of our seats

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Speaker 2: and went back and went home. And I had just

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Speaker 2: an impression of it. That's not a movie that I

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Speaker 2: was into at all, and it wasn't really until I

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Speaker 2: went back and watched it in college with some friends

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Speaker 2: and we were suddenly taken by it and how interesting

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Speaker 2: it was, how unique it was. And then again fast

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Speaker 2: forward to getting ready for the show, looking back on

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Speaker 2: it and now having lost David Bowie and having a

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Speaker 2: sense of nostalgia about that. The movie is very endearing

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Speaker 2: to me. It's challenging because it doesn't meet the conventions

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Speaker 2: of today's cinema in terms of how the story is told.

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Speaker 2: But there's a real interesting, heartfelt somberness to it that

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Speaker 2: I thought was quite fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I agree with all of that, although it's interesting. My

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Speaker 1: experience slightly different. I think in a previous episode, I

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Speaker 1: was talking about when I was just a young guy

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Speaker 1: doing a radio news gig at the local hippie FM

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Speaker 1: station and I was covering the Travis Walton things. So

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Speaker 1: I'd already been talking about in just a few months

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Speaker 1: before this came out about a guy that was beamed up.

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Speaker 1: So now this was a movie about a guy that

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Speaker 1: fell down, right, So I was like, that'll be very interesting,

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Speaker 1: And I had the same thing with you. It was

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Speaker 1: a new movie, so it wasn't one of those midnight

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Speaker 1: flicks that you got to see on college campus. It

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Speaker 1: was one that you had to go pay at the

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Speaker 1: theater to watch, and I was eager to see it.

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Speaker 1: I really had good expectations. As I watched it, a

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Speaker 1: couple of things hit me. I didn't really know David

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Speaker 1: Bowie very well. I've come to appreciate his music for

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Speaker 1: sure over the years, but at the time I was

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Speaker 1: more of a Beatles guy at Stones and things. I

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Speaker 1: just wasn't doing Bowie that much, so I didn't really

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Speaker 1: know him very well as a rock star. But he

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Speaker 1: really captivated me in his performance. But I was like you,

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Speaker 1: I was like, what is really going on here?

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Speaker 2: What? And listen?

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Speaker 1: None of that has cleared up one hundred percent upon

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Speaker 1: a rewatch, except for the fact that now you can

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Speaker 1: watch videos and talk to people and read reviews. So

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Speaker 1: things that I was a little confused about can I

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Speaker 1: can be unconfused on. And by the way, I should say, Brent,

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Speaker 1: we have to say there are spoilers here, folks. Okay,

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Speaker 1: come on, this is a nineteen seventy six film. If

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Speaker 1: you're going to wag your finger at is for spoiling

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Speaker 1: the film. Then stop now go watch it or don't

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Speaker 1: watch it or whatever. But yeah, we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about how it ends in this thing, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about how the other versions of the Man Who.

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Speaker 2: Fell to Earth in but Brent.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that really struck me in the

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Speaker 1: rewatch was the callbacks of certain things, because I guess

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Speaker 1: I've watched more films obviously since I had then and

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Speaker 1: three things really stuck out to me. These medical scenes

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Speaker 1: at the end where they's semi medically tore uring amisterom Newton.

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Speaker 1: They reminded me of the Ludovico technique and clockwork Oiners.

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Speaker 1: It had absiliarity to it another great seventies film. Also,

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Speaker 1: the place where they keep him at the very end,

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Speaker 1: where he's just locked up and he's alone and you

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Speaker 1: really feel the isolation and everything felt like the grunge

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Speaker 1: version of the French bedroom in two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: A Space Odyssey. I just felt his isolation and loneliness there.

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Speaker 1: And then when he finally gets out and flees into

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Speaker 1: the white hallway, that reminded me of THHX eleven thirty eight,

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Speaker 1: which I believe is that George Lucas student film that

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Speaker 1: he got to later film. I'm not saying that these

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Speaker 1: were borrowed in it anyway. I'm just saying my film

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Speaker 1: ability to see things differently was there. So I had

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Speaker 1: a great time watching it again, and I have to say,

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Speaker 1: as I watched it, I felt like I was seeing

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Speaker 1: it for the first time because I'd forgotten so much

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Speaker 1: of it, and I was a joy to do it.

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Speaker 2: I'd forgotten the first half that I didn't sleep through,

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Speaker 2: and I certainly didn't the whole second half was new

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Speaker 2: to me the next time I saw it. But looking

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Speaker 2: at it with new eyes through the lens of sound,

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Speaker 2: light and frequency, I'm excited to dive deep into it

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Speaker 2: and take a look at how all of this relates

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Speaker 2: to youufology.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just to say this isn't a fan thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we're reviewing it per se because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the other things and all that. But I

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Speaker 1: did in my research look up something. I thought it

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Speaker 1: would be fun to just read this out loud right now.

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Speaker 1: I found Roger Ebert's review The Man Who Fell to Earth,

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Speaker 1: which he wrote at the time. He wrote it requires

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Speaker 1: an almost courageous leap of the imagination to take Nicholas

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Speaker 1: Rogues The Man Who Fell to Earth. Seriously, here's a

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Speaker 1: film so preposterous imposturing, so filled with gaps of logic

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Speaker 1: and continuity, that if it weren't so solemn, there'd be

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Speaker 1: the temptation to laugh out loud. And yet at the

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Speaker 1: same time, this is a film filled with interesting ideas.

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Speaker 1: It's like a bunch of tentative sketches for a more

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Speaker 1: assured film.

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Speaker 2: That was never made. So I always loved Roger Ebert.

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Speaker 1: I didn't agree with him on everything, and I think

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Speaker 1: what's interesting is he's probably not wrong in his sort

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Speaker 1: of dismissive way to talk about it, and yet at

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Speaker 1: the same time, what I found is the ideas are

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Speaker 1: so much more interesting. I don't think Roger Ebert, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what his opinions of UFOs and the paranormal

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Speaker 1: and the phenomenon or any of that stuff was, but

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Speaker 1: I did think to myself, maybe, just maybe he wasn't

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Speaker 1: seeing it on that elevated level, possibly right, because he's

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Speaker 1: just a film reviewer. Anyway, Folks, spoilers ahead will be

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Speaker 1: back in just a.

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Speaker 2: Couple of minutes. I'm Brent Friedman years ago, a family

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Speaker 2: friend who became a cabinet member, and the regulars disclosed

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Speaker 2: to me that aliens are real. They're here, and he'd

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Speaker 2: seen them. I'm Bryce's Abel.

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Speaker 1: Later, when we were producing Dark Skies, an NBCTV series

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Speaker 1: about an alien invasion, we were approached by men who

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Speaker 1: said they were from the Office of Naval Intelligence and

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Speaker 1: they wanted to give us inside information in exchange for

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Speaker 1: access to our show.

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Speaker 2: We didn't take that deal, but we have never stopped

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Speaker 2: thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: That's why we do this podcast. We're working out ideas

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Speaker 1: in real time about how Hollywood is portrayed aliens and why.

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Speaker 2: Every episode is different because there are so many questions.

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Speaker 1: We're looking for answers. It's an active investigation. Let's do

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Speaker 1: this together, all right. Then we're back and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about The Man Who Fell to Earth, which is something

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Speaker 1: that's really stood the test of time. It goes back

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Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty three when an author named Walter Tevis

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Speaker 1: wrote the original book. And I didn't read the book

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Speaker 1: in full, and I brand, I know you, we didn't know.

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Speaker 1: That's not where we started our The Man Who Fell

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Speaker 1: to Earth work, although I did buy it as a

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Speaker 1: kindle and read it some pages of it.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was great.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, the man who wrote it, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but the man who

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Speaker 1: wrote it also wrote The Hustler, The Color of Money,

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Speaker 1: and The Queen's Gambit, which was a big Netflix thing

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Speaker 1: a back.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he's the author who wrote a bunch of stuff

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Speaker 1: you know about, but you don't know anything about.

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Speaker 2: Ann fascinating. Okay, So there you go.

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Speaker 1: It's your take on the book, though you know it

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Speaker 1: got any facts and figures to throw out here.

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Speaker 2: The book follows the same basic plot, and I found

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Speaker 2: that the book seemed very intent on presenting basically an

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Speaker 2: allegory for corporate corruption, right. And it seemed to be

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Speaker 2: because when it was written nineteen sixty three, it was

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Speaker 2: also looking at the emergence of kind of the traps

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Speaker 2: of consumerism and the loss of idealism. Right. It came

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Speaker 2: out and I think right around the time that John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy was being assassinated. Right, it really was representative of

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Speaker 2: its day in terms of the messages it wanted to convey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you just really nailed something there. When

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Speaker 1: the book first came out, Kennedy was still in office,

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Speaker 1: So it represents in some respects an Alien has come

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Speaker 1: to Earth and you start to read it, and then

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Speaker 1: it becomes the post assassination book, where it's all about

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Speaker 1: the irony and the cynicism and all of that. I

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Speaker 1: do think one thing is probably clear the novel, and

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Speaker 1: this is true of most adaptations. The novel is a

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Speaker 1: little clearer than the film about what Newton's mission is,

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Speaker 1: because obviously he had to write a book about it,

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Speaker 1: so you get a little more sense of that. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know that is necessarily a knock on the

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Speaker 1: film itself, because if the film was as specific as

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Speaker 1: the book about what Newton is doing there and all

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Speaker 1: the details, it would lose some of its mystery.

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Speaker 2: I think that's probably why they leaned into the nonlinear storytelling,

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Speaker 2: was they wanted to keep it more mysterious, more elliptical,

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Speaker 2: and be unsure about what exactly Newton's agenda is, who

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Speaker 2: he is, what's going on, And they were able to

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Speaker 2: sustain that for a period of time in the movie.

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Speaker 2: And that wasn't really the case as I understood it

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Speaker 2: in the book.

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Speaker 1: Let's also be authentic here about it wasn't such a

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Speaker 1: big hit that they grabbed it off the bookshelves and

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Speaker 1: turned it into a movie. It comes out in sixty three.

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Speaker 1: I don't start adapting it, I believe, until seventy five,

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Speaker 1: and maybe as early as a little earlier. But so

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Speaker 1: it took a while to find its way into film them.

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Speaker 1: But that's a good place for us to start, because,

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Speaker 1: let's face it, nobody who's listening to us has read

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Speaker 1: the book either. So let's move on. Many of us

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Speaker 1: have seen this film. Let's talk film, all right.

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Speaker 2: So the film came out in nineteen seventy six. As

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Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier, it was directed by Nicholas Rogue. We

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Speaker 2: know it was based on this book by Tevis and

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Speaker 2: the plot is still basically the same. And let me

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Speaker 2: just recap it a little bit. It's about a humanoid

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Speaker 2: alien who goes by the name of Thomas Jerome Newton,

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Speaker 2: who arrives in the American Southwest. His homeworld is suffering

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Speaker 2: from a catastrophic drought, and his intention is to amass

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Speaker 2: enough wealth on Earth to build a spacecraft capable of

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Speaker 2: transporting water back to his homeworld of Anthea. You know

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Speaker 2: the log.

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Speaker 1: Line, that's pretty fair. It does make you wonder, though,

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Speaker 1: how large a spacecraft was this guy really supposed to

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Speaker 1: build to transfer water to save the planet.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was my big practical question, and I thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: I guess this is going to entail lots of trips

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Speaker 2: back and forth.

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Speaker 1: And yet they're building one spacecraft and they say time

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Speaker 1: is of the essence.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that's even true.

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Speaker 1: And also, if you run to steal enough water from

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Speaker 1: the Earth to save an entire planet, that probably would

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Speaker 1: be something that was not a neutral act. You would

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Speaker 1: literally be transporting a whole lot of water.

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Speaker 2: However you did it.

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Speaker 1: Just a couple of quick points of order, if you will,

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Speaker 1: on what that story is about. There's some key elements

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Speaker 1: in this thing. When he shows up, he engages a

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Speaker 1: patent attorney named Oliver Farnsworth who's played by the great

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Speaker 1: Buck Henry. Yes, right, And he also brings in a

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Speaker 1: guy named This has always been one of my favorite things.

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Speaker 1: The name of the character is doctor Nathan Bryce. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but Bowie keeps calling him Bryce. Everyone in the film

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Speaker 1: calls him Bryce, and so I remember the first time

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Speaker 1: seeing it going, that's pretty cool. And this guy is

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Speaker 1: he's a brilliant but compromised former professor kind of guy.

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Speaker 1: All right, So that's who Bowie's got to help him

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Speaker 1: with his plan to make money and build a ship

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Speaker 1: and save his world. But along the way he gets

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Speaker 1: derailed by two things, sex and alcohol. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the which, by the way, has derailed many a human

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Speaker 1: being as well.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, that's one of the great

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Speaker 2: ironies here is that he comes here with certainly a

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Speaker 2: higher intelligence, and he uses that intelligence as he intends

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Speaker 2: to create some revolutionary technology that he then patents, and

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Speaker 2: he's able to to some degree execute his vision, execute

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Speaker 2: his plan. But the problem is he's fallen to Earth,

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Speaker 2: where there are distractions and temptations. And again, think about

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Speaker 2: the story from Tevis's point of view, which is he's

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Speaker 2: trying to show what life is becoming, right where even

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Speaker 2: the most noble of intentions are getting slowed down and

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Speaker 2: embroiled in what modern society is becoming. And so the

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Speaker 2: idea that an alien comes down with all of this

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Speaker 2: supreme intelligence, but he doesn't have. He's very human in

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Speaker 2: that he doesn't have the emotional intelligence to rise above

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Speaker 2: all of these things that pull him down and ultimately

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Speaker 2: thwart his mission. And people keep feeding him alcohol and

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Speaker 2: he becomes addicted. He becomes an alcoholic. He can hold

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Speaker 2: his liquor pretty good.

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Speaker 1: It seems, but he's constantly drinking and that's not good

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Speaker 1: for him. And then he hooks up with a character

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Speaker 1: named Mary Lou who's assault of the Earth. I think

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Speaker 1: she's a hotel worker from Oklahoma or something, and she's

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Speaker 1: played by the Great Candy Clark, who comes out of

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Speaker 1: American graffiti.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's just a.

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Speaker 1: Sweet person, a little high strung, but she loves this guy.

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Speaker 1: Even when she learns he's an alien, she loves him,

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Speaker 1: which God bless her, because he's a creepy looking alien

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Speaker 1: when he actually takes off the stuff at one point,

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Speaker 1: because he's so tired of masquerading as a human, and

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Speaker 1: he allows her to see him as he is, and

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Speaker 1: she does not like what she sees, and yet she

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Speaker 1: still loves him. Yes, that's love for you. One thing

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Speaker 1: I just thought was just an image for you.

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Speaker 2: Though.

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Speaker 1: When they made this movie Rogue, the director did not

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Speaker 1: have David Bowie in mind. The first person he wanted

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Speaker 1: to cast was Michael Crichton.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if everyone remembers Michael Crichton, but he

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Speaker 1: was the author of the Androma to Strain and Jurassic Park, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean and many other books. Yeah, a very successful writer,

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Speaker 1: not considered an actor, But then neither was David Bowie

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Speaker 1: that much at the time he was cast. But Rogue

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Speaker 1: thought that what would be so good about Crichton is

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Speaker 1: that he's so tall, and that he would just stand

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Speaker 1: out six eight. He was gigantic guy, and so it

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Speaker 1: was actually quite a twist, And I wonder if how

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Speaker 1: I would have responded to a gigantic Newton as opposed

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Speaker 1: to Bowie, who comes across as extremely slight. You could

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Speaker 1: blow him away in a hard wind, right. He literally

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Speaker 1: from the moment he steps foot into the earth, he's

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Speaker 1: not well, it's not his favorite environment, it's not the

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Speaker 1: right place for him to be, but he's carrying on

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Speaker 1: because he's on this mission. Final interesting thought just to

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Speaker 1: set the world here, because with a lot of movies

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Speaker 1: you have to figure like, what's the time frame, how

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Speaker 1: how do our characters aging or whatever? This movie says,

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Speaker 1: damn right they are, And what happens is David Bowie

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Speaker 1: as the jerome character in this movie is always David

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Speaker 1: Bowie is the jerome character. He's not aged up or anything.

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Speaker 1: He is he looks he's quite as a ghost, it

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Speaker 1: seems like, but he's he's got shocking red.

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Speaker 2: Hair, which we've seen before.

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Speaker 1: But he's the same guy all through the movie, but

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Speaker 1: particularly toward the end, everybody else is aging, yes, dramatically,

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Speaker 1: And so I knew that, and I've always accepted that

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Speaker 1: because I thought that's interesting he's put this costume on

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Speaker 1: based disguise disguise, And a couple of nights ago, I'm

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Speaker 1: watching the extras on the movie and I watch a

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Speaker 1: piece with the writer Paul Meyerberg, who, by the way,

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Speaker 1: here's just a little tidbit for those of you who

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Speaker 1: are writers and are saying I'm never goddamn gonna make

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Speaker 1: it in this business. Paul Meyerberg wrote thirty nine scripts

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Speaker 1: before they produced his very first script, The Manu Feld Earth. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that is perseverance. Think about that anyway back to time.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of time went into his success. But

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Speaker 1: what Meyerberg says in his interview I did not catch

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Speaker 1: the first time. He said this film has a lot

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Speaker 1: to do with time. And he went into this explanation

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Speaker 1: Brent where he started saying, there's past, present, future, the

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Speaker 1: futures affecting the past, but also the president in the

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Speaker 1: past is affecting the future, and what he described was

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Speaker 1: like dark series that we talked about a while ago. Now,

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Speaker 1: I never saw that in the film the first time

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Speaker 1: I saw it, and if it's in there, it's subtle.

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Speaker 1: And he described a scene that I had not seen,

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Speaker 1: which he said, while they're driving around. They shot most

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Speaker 1: of this in New Mexico, including one scene in Roswell

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Speaker 1: which I found interesting. But they're driving around New Mexico

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Speaker 1: and Bowie's in the car and he looks outside the

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Speaker 1: car and he sees a pioneer family. Did you see

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Speaker 1: this in the film?

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Speaker 2: I missed it. Now I missed that too.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it got cut out and it's in the director's cut.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll get notes on it. But what Meyerberg

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Speaker 1: says is he sees this pioneer family, which is like

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years in the past, but he's

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Speaker 1: riencing them as if it's just a time dilation kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. And he said, what was interesting is the

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Speaker 1: way he wrote it is the family actually sees Bowie

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Speaker 1: driving around in his car as one of those weird

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Speaker 1: little toe Wow.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't forgot that. I don't think that's in

436
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: the final film, because I think I would have there's

437
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 2: a lot of strange things in the movie, but that

438
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 2: probably would have struck me as the strangest. Yeah, that

439
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: one surprised me. So let me give a little more

440
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 2: cultural context here. I mentioned before that I was a

441
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: big fan of David Bowie. So in nineteen seventy six,

442
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: when the movie came out, David Bowie was already a

443
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: rock star, and not just any rock star. He had

444
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 2: a persona called Ziggy Stardust, and in I think around

445
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: seventy two, he released an album called The Rise and

446
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 2: Fall of Ziggy Stardusts and the Spiders from Mars, That's

447
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: what it was. And from seventy two to seventy three

448
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: he toured around the world and Ziggy Stardus was this

449
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: androgynous alien rock star and that was his person that

450
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: he completely glombed onto. He dressed like an alien rock

451
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 2: star and this character took off. It made his album

452
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: a huge success. And then when he came back from touring,

453
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: he released another album, still embracing the Ziggy Stardust persona,

454
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 2: called Aladdinsane. And then he got bored, as most creatives do,

455
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: with doing the same thing over and over again, and

456
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: he decided he wanted to shed that persona and become

457
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 2: someone else, and for the rest of his career he

458
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: was never a Ziggy startist. Again. I say all of

459
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 2: this because brilliant casting. You take David Bowie, who is

460
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: at that point in seventy six known as an alien

461
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 2: rock star, that's his whole brand, and you put him

462
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 2: in a movie where you're asking people to believe he's

463
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: an alien.

464
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: Great casting, because according to Rogan himself in his interview,

465
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,479
Speaker 1: he did have his head on Crichton. But as soon

466
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: as somebody said Bowie, and I think it was the

467
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: writer that suggested Bowie, they couldn't get it out of

468
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: their head. They just said, he's the perfect guy. We

469
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: got to go get him. And apparently Bowie, who I'm

470
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: sure had his own issues with drugs or alcohol and

471
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: or was very well behaved on set, he showed up

472
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: and said.

473
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: What do you need me to do? I'll do it.

474
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: But you're right, think about some of the songs like

475
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: Space Oddity and so it's a great converging of his

476
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: persona with a character. He tried to give up his

477
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: persona of Ziggy Stardust I think he was tired of

478
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: it in seventy three, which is three years before the

479
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: movie came out, and the movie kick started it again.

480
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to just I don't know why, but I

481
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: have to say this, because the character's name is doctor

482
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: Nathan Bryce. The first guy they wanted to play that

483
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: was James Coburn, which is so interesting because if you

484
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: know anything about Rip Torn, he kind of has that

485
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: attitude whereas whimsical, a little tiny bit of whimsical in

486
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: it that he's portrayed over the years. James Coburn is

487
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: a straight ahead guy.

488
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: With a little menace in it.

489
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: It would have been an entirely different interpretation of that

490
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: as well. But the point I wanted to make as

491
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: well that I thought was very prescient about this film

492
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: because it's happening right now. In every scene that you

493
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: see Bowie, when he's Newton and he's coming back and

494
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: he's filling in his time, he's watching TV. He starts

495
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: with a single TV and it's three TVs. Then it's

496
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: a wall of TVs. And what he's really doing, he

497
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: is recreated with his wall of TVs what we all

498
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: have in our pockets now, our cell phones. I just

499
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: think the movie was very prescient about that, the idea

500
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: that you need constant distraction. He'd be going for one

501
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: thing to the next thing watching this. And I wrote

502
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: this one down because when he said it, I was like,

503
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: holy shit, that's a really interesting comment. He's looking at

504
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: a wall of TV screens and he's just there looking

505
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: blank about it. But then he startles awake and he goes,

506
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: get out of my mind. All of you leave my

507
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: mind alone, which where all of you people who feel

508
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: like your kids are watching too much TV or you're

509
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: watching too much TV. I think we've all felt that,

510
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: where it just it's not a thing that you do

511
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: without consequence.

512
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 2: TV gets in your mind. Yeah, I feel like it is.

513
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: That scene was a great example of Rogue sending a

514
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: cautionary message at that time again remember in the seventies

515
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 2: of what media would become, and very prophetic in that regard.

516
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: I think something else related to ufology that I find interesting.

517
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: It was in the book and it's I don't remember

518
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: if the exact words were used in the movie, but

519
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: this idea that Newton comes to Earth as an alien

520
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: with uncanny scientific knowledge, and how many times have we

521
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: seen that in stories where aliens come down and they

522
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: seem to always know more about the universe than humans do,

523
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: Like that is a standard, like you're not a self

524
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: respecting alien unless you can lord it over humans that

525
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: you know what's really going on. Now. The other thing

526
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: is that it also we've seen this play out in

527
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: Disclosure Day, this idea that even if it's not the

528
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: alien coming down with knowledge, it's the idea that uncanny

529
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: scientific knowledge is passed down through downloads and through hybrids

530
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: getting special messages and whatnot. But the big idea here

531
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: is that non human intelligence, whether it's in some sort

532
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: of light being form or it's David Bowie falling to Earth,

533
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: always knows more than humans. And it reinforces this idea

534
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: that we are somehow trapped here in a world, in

535
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: a material world, and full of distractions and things that

536
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: are somehow keeping us from reaching these heights that non

537
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: human intelligence or off world entities have that can look

538
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: down on Earth and understand how it all works. And again,

539
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: I think this goes back to the fantasy I was

540
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: mentioning before. Imagine if you met one of those people, right,

541
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: you could ask them all sorts of questions. I know

542
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: that for you and I we look back on our

543
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,239
Speaker 2: meetings with JC and say, oh, we wish we had

544
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: asked them more questions. I am getting lots of people saying,

545
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: why didn't you ask that Nordic on Orches Islands? What's

546
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: really going on? Because I was scared for my life

547
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: is the answer. But in retrospect to the Monday Morning

548
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: quarterback of me says, I would love to meet an

549
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: alien because they have all of the secrets, it seems.

550
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 1: And they do have all of the secrets. It seems

551
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: that it's interesting what this film does about this. To

552
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: hark back to TV, he says early on in his

553
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: character as Newton that the way that they found out

554
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: about the Earth and that they saw the Earth had

555
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: all this water was from TV. Yes, that they had

556
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: intercepted our TV signals, and which is something that goes

557
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 1: back to Carl Sagan talking about that. I remember in

558
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: his movie Contact, the first thing that ever is received

559
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: by anybody outside of the Earth is an image of

560
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: Hitler speaking at the nineteen thirty Site Olympics, because it

561
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: was televised. So what they're saying in this film is

562
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: that our television, whether we're seeking contact or not, we're

563
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: putting out stuff that can be interpreted as contact, and

564
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: that means I love Lucy is contact folks, if that's

565
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: the case. Yes, also I find this very interesting because

566
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: it is true. And then we need to move on.

567
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: But the film does merge that Bowie persona Ziggy Stardust,

568
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: into this Newton persona, which is very interesting. But here

569
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: is Bowie who is an incredible musician, and guess what,

570
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: he doesn't do the soundtrack. No, they just couldn't get

571
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: him to do it. It was all he could get

572
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: his brain around was to actually do the acting. He

573
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: didn't do it, and so guess who did? The soundtrack

574
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: is done by John Phillips of the mom is in

575
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: the Papas I didn't realize, which kind of blew my mind.

576
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: Now here's one other final tidbit and then we can

577
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: move on to the next iteration. At the very end

578
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: of the film, when Newton is talking to doctor Nathan

579
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: Brice has gone to what looks like Tower Records and

580
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: listened to a record album that Newton has composed and

581
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: put out there, and Newton asks him in the final

582
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: scene did you like it? And he goes not really much,

583
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: and Newton says it wasn't for you.

584
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 2: It was for my wife.

585
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: Somedays you'll hear it on the radio, because again, radio

586
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: signals are less out. Okay, Now you might say, okay,

587
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,239
Speaker 1: I know why they put that in the film. So

588
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: when you watch that, folks, I want you to know

589
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: it's in the book. They didn't put that in the film. Interesting,

590
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: it was Bowie's character did not demand that he write

591
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: a film. In fact, if anything, it actually looks almost

592
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: a little wrong in the film because it's but it

593
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: came from the book.

594
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: And here's here's a nice little piece of trivia. Bryce.

595
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: Do you remember what the musical artist's name was that

596
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: put that album out?

597
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: Oh?

598
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: No, basically the pseudonym of Newton, Yes, the Visitor.

599
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,479
Speaker 1: The Visitor, yes, yeah, and oh and also on the

600
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: image of that. The reason I was stretching for that

601
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: is that I believe on the image of the album

602
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: it's the Visitor and it says a music phenomenon, Yeah,

603
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: something like that. The phrase the phenomenon is in there, yes, exactly.

604
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: So you wouldn't have picked up on that in nineteen

605
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: seventy six. Now only watching it today. Okay, look, we

606
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: can still continue to reference this thing. But let's march forward.

607
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,479
Speaker 1: Because this thing is a it's a critical success. I

608
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: can't really remember if it made money. I don't know

609
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: how much money it made. Maybe that doesn't even count.

610
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: It was critically interesting to people, and certainly people who

611
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: cared about UFO and Aliens at the time were very

612
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: interested in it. So we got the book in the sixties,

613
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: we got the movie in the seventies, and in the

614
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: eighties it comes. I was going to say roaring back,

615
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: but that would be the wrong word to use. They

616
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: released it as a movie of the Week on ABC,

617
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: and it's god awful. And I know this to be

618
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: the case because I watched it recently to prepare for this.

619
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: I didn't even want to talk about it. It was

620
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: so bad. It's a nineteen eighty seven TV pilot. They

621
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: were thinking, oh great, we got this great title, The

622
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: Man Who Fell to Earth. It'll be a wonderful TV series.

623
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: So they shoot a two hour pilot. It doesn't get

624
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: picked up the series, but they release it as a.

625
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: Movie of the week.

626
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: And listen, I actually saw some of the credits on

627
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: this thing, and I actually have met some of those people,

628
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: so I'm not trying to pick a fight with anybody,

629
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: but I think they would probably say it was of

630
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: its time. And I can't even imagine the producers and

631
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: the writers that thing actually thought this was the right

632
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: way to treat that material. It had to be an

633
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: executive someplace who said this is how we're going to

634
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: do it, and this is what you need to do.

635
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: All I can say, Britt, have you even seen a

636
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: frame of this one?

637
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: Just out of curiosity? No frames? But I did do

638
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: a little reading on it, and the thing that struck

639
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: me about just what I read in terms of encapsulations

640
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: is that I guess, in trying to make it episodic,

641
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: they had essentially made it feel Newton's or the Newton

642
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: characters had a day job to try and start this

643
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: company and make some money and build a spacecraft, and

644
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: so it really flattened out all of the idea of, oh,

645
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: he has to overcome distractions and temptations of modern society,

646
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: and it was more just, oh no, this is just

647
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: a it's going to take a while to accomplish all

648
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: he needs to do, so we're going to slice it

649
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: up into our long episodes, and in doing that they

650
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 2: completely missed the point.

651
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, And that's really astute observation because if you

652
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: break it down, if you break it down to the

653
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: big building blocks, guy comes from a dying planet, crash

654
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: lands on Earth, decides to use his scientific knowledge to

655
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: make money to build the craft. Those all match, and

656
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: yet they aren't even close to the same film. And

657
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: in fact, there's a guy named Lewis Smith, who I

658
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: don't think most people know as an actor, who plays

659
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: the Newton character, who they've renamed John Dorry. I guess

660
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: they renamed all the characters.

661
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: And yes, it's clear who they are.

662
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: Brent Lewis Smith in this nineteen eighty seventh film looks

663
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: like Jerry Seinfeld from his show, and so the whole

664
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: time I'm watching this thing, I'm going it's just hard

665
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: for me.

666
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: Now.

667
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 1: At the time, Jerry Seinfeld was nothing, so they didn't

668
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: know they were doing that. But he looks like Jerry Seinfeld.

669
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 1: So you're watching this thing and it's this really bad

670
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 1: movie where Jerry Seinfeld is playing the David Bowie role,

671
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: and it doesn't track. So all I could say is

672
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: they did certain things. As you point out, he has

673
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: a son on Earth and they really cures together. It's

674
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: so clear that whoever decided to make that version of it,

675
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: just said, this will be a vehicle if you will, Right.

676
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: The nineteen seventy sixth film is about alienation, is spiritual collapse,

677
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: which is interesting, right, that's powerful. The eighty seven version

678
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: is about an alien trying to get home while becoming

679
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: the lead of a possible TV series, and that's it.

680
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: That's all. It is.

681
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: The strangeness that goes with the nineteen seventy sixth film

682
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: gets domesticated, if you will, in this pilot episode, and

683
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: it really feels wrong because of what you just pointed out.

684
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: It wants to be repeatable, but the Nicholas Rogue film

685
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: is not repeatable. No so in fact, which is going

686
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: to take us in a moment to the twenty twenty

687
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: two thing where they didn't repeat it. They continued the story,

688
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,720
Speaker 1: which is interesting. But before we get there, yes, unless

689
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: you want to say something more about this no stupid

690
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: ABC pilot, then we're going to forget that.

691
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: Life moved on already. Let's move on to.

692
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: Something of importance, which is the twenty fifteen to twenty

693
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: sixteen stage play in New York off Broadway. David Bowie

694
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: has Michael C. Hall, who is Dexter playing the Newton character.

695
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: And so what is so powerful about this thing that

696
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: impacted me just watching a few scenes from Michael C.

697
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: Hall and all that was that.

698
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: Bowie put this thing together as he was dying of

699
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: liver cancer. Yes, and this thing only plays for a

700
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: little over a month and a half to two months,

701
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: and Bowie dies, I believe, while it's in its final days.

702
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: And he dies two days either before or after his

703
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: final album, the twenty eighth.

704
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: Album comes out, yes, I think before actually wow. And

705
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: so the interesting things is that that play actually started

706
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: with a song called Lazareth, and that was meant to

707
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: be because he knew he was dying his self, penned

708
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: swan song and his farewell to his fans, and it

709
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: was meant to I think I read an interview where

710
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 2: he intended that to be something that would help his

711
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: fans accept the fact that he was passing on, and

712
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: this idea of Lazareth of Bethany as being resurrected from

713
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: the dead by Jesus. I think Bowie was using the

714
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: song more as a metaphor. He was using it as

715
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 2: a I will live on through my music and the

716
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: legacy that I have left behind is what will never

717
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: be gone, that will be eternal. I will always be

718
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,919
Speaker 2: here for you. That was the underlying message for him.

719
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 2: A couple fun facts that I did not realize Bowie

720
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: I ever got to perform Lazaruth live. He was too ill.

721
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: Originally he wasn't even writing. He wasn't going to make

722
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: it about Newton. It was going to be something about

723
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: somebody finds Bob Dylan songs that didn't exist.

724
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: Yes, it was something about finding some lost songs by

725
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan that he was actually going to write David

726
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: Bowie and wow, there's an alternate history world. Yes, talk

727
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: about shifting timelines. It makes me feel a little sad

728
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: and certainly nostalgic to think that this is how he

729
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: went out. At the same time, imagine being able to

730
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: put out an album right as you're passing and put

731
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 2: on a play and be able to say goodbye to

732
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: the world in such a creative way. I think that's

733
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: pretty profound.

734
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: Okay, there's the artistic part of that, and I'm not

735
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: going to comment on that at this point other than

736
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: that people who saw it liked it. Right, It's kind

737
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: of it's a musical Michael Sehall playing David Bowie playing

738
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: Tom He's Newton. Okay, so you got that, But it's

739
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: just fraught with meaning because of it. But it doesn't

740
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: add a lot of meaning, I don't think to the

741
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: whole falling to Earth, other than it appears the Bowie

742
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: characters on our planet anyway an immortal almost, and so

743
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: he can't die. And yet in the play it seems

744
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: like he wants to die, that he's trying to die,

745
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: but he's condemned not to die something.

746
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: Look, I think there's something else to bring up here.

747
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: You touched on it earlier, but this seems like a

748
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: good inflection point before we move on to the more

749
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: recent incarnation of the story. And if you think about

750
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: the message of this, David Bowie did a lot of

751
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 2: things in his career. He was around for a long time,

752
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: a ton of accomplishments. As I mentioned, he has ziggy

753
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: starred us. He retired that after a couple of years.

754
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: But he created other personas throughout his whole life. And

755
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: yet when he was dying, what character did he choose

756
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: to go out as right? The Newton character? And so,

757
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: as you mentioned earlier, I wonder if it had anything

758
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: to do with him being an experiencer himself.

759
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: What do you think I'm going to let you tell

760
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: that story of his experiencing because I don't feel I

761
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: have all the facts there. But I do know that

762
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: he saw many a UFO in his day. Yes, but

763
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: at a time in his life. If I'm not mistaken

764
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: before he was actually David Bowie Rock got correct.

765
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: So this will go quick, but I think it's really

766
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: important and it's a nice wrap up on Bowie. As

767
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: Newton so in nineteen sixty eight, so this is pre

768
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: rock Star Bowie. He gave an interview or he gave

769
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 2: an interview later about this time where he had seen

770
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: significant UFO activity from an observatory up to seven times

771
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: a night over the course of a year. And here's

772
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: the quote that he gave in the interview, which I

773
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: find fascinating. I used to work for two guys who

774
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: put out a UFO magazine in England about six years ago,

775
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: and I made sightings six seven times a night for

776
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: about a year when I was in the observatory. We

777
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: had regular cruises that came over. We knew the six

778
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: point fifteen was coming in and would meet up with

779
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 2: another one and they would be stationary for about half

780
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: an hour, and then after verifying what they'd been doing

781
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: that day, they'd shoot off and he that's the end

782
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: of the quote, the fact that this all was just

783
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: so routine for him. Of course, this guy became an

784
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: alien rock star. Of course he identified with Newton. He

785
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: had seen over the course of a year. Not a

786
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: lot of us are not even going to see one

787
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: UFO in our lifetime, and he was watching them seemingly

788
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 2: every night that he went to work. It's fascinating.

789
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: So Bowie was definitely, I guess he was aware of

790
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: the situation, was a air of the phenomenon. He took

791
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: it as part of his life. And again, as you

792
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 1: are correct, at the end of his life, he's calling

793
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: back to the man who fell to Earth, which I

794
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: think gives it a heaviness and a meaning that it

795
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: already had, but it amplifies it in a wonderful way.

796
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: And as you said, it's the last time it's Bowie's

797
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: let Well, actually that isn't even Bowie's performance as Newton.

798
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: Bowie's performances Newton happens in the movie period.

799
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 2: Then this other guy, Lewis.

800
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: Gets to play him in the forgettable TV pilot. Then

801
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: Michael C. Hall gets to play him on Broadway. Okay,

802
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: But now we're moving into the most recent part of

803
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: this thing, which is in twenty twenty two, Showtime did

804
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: a ten part series The Man Who Fell to Earth,

805
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: and I remember watching it originally and thinking, oh, this

806
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: will be an interesting remake. They'll have taken that flawed

807
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: but brilliant film and stretched it into ten episodes, and

808
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: how interesting that'll be. But that's not what they did.

809
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: It's forty five years later, and the person who is

810
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: actually the film is about the Man Who Fell to

811
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 1: Earth in the ten part Showtime series and I'm boy,

812
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to back me up on this. It's

813
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: chuettl Ajiah.

814
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: For is that I'm more confident on the last name

815
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: than the first name.

816
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: Okay, I hope that's right. And if I butchered his name,

817
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: my apologies because he does a very nice job. But

818
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: he is not playing the David Bowie character. He's playing

819
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: a character named Faraday, an alien that has literally followed

820
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: up Bowie's mission. The Newton mission that Bowie did in

821
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: the film has been lost. Obviously, he didn't get his

822
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: ship off, he didn't steal a bunch of water. He

823
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: didn't get back to his planet in time to save

824
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: his wife and two kids. That didn't happen. And now

825
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: it's forty five years later and the Earth is in

826
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: great trouble, and of course his planet is obviously in

827
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: great trouble. And this is the part that I thought

828
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: was really wonderful because I'm a big Bill kni fan,

829
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 1: and I first tipped to Bill Nye as this incredible

830
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 1: actor in Love actually the Christmas movie. He's the drunken

831
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: rock star who sings Christmas Is All Around You, and

832
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: he's just so freaking funny in this role, and he's

833
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: so wonderful, So I know I loved him for all

834
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: these roles, but this is a serious role. He is

835
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: playing the Bowie role that it's forty five years later,

836
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: and he has aged a little bit, because Bill Nye

837
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: has aged a little bit, and he's great because he's

838
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: been on the run. Remember at the end of the film,

839
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: he takes off, and I guess he's been on the

840
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: run from the CIA for a long time. And the premise,

841
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 1: of course, is that the mission has failed. His planet,

842
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: which we haven't mentioned, is called Anthea. So Anthea is

843
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: still dying, and this other alien gets sent who becomes Faraday,

844
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: which is the igia for character. Now, what's interesting is

845
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: that they introduced some stuff that must be in the

846
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: book but was not really touched upon at all in

847
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: the film, which is back on Anthea. There are drones

848
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: and adepts, two classes. It's class warfare there. The Adepts

849
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: make all the decision and the drones do all the work.

850
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: Whiches.

851
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: You could argue, we're getting with that ourselves right now.

852
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: And so what the Faraday character is a drone and

853
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: he was a drone that worked for Newton, Yes, and

854
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: so he comes to town. It's a complicated plot, and

855
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: I don't know how much of it we need to

856
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: get into, but I just want to say a couple

857
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: of things about the quality of it. The writing is

858
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: very strong, the performances are very strong. I do think

859
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: people could benefit and have a great time watching the

860
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: film with Bowie. But I'd also say don't write off

861
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: the ideas watching this ten part series because it's strong.

862
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: Alex Kurtzman is one of the executive producers. He does

863
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: a great job, and they try to make sense of

864
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: the whole thing. It's so many of these things. Brent

865
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: Is it perfect. Not to everybody. It ain't perfect. How

866
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: many things are the Godfather's close to perfect. But I

867
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: don't know about it anything else. But it was important

868
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: and it captivated me, and I enjoyed it. And I

869
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: don't know how whether you've seen all of it or

870
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: some of it, I'm curious what your thoughts are.

871
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: I watched some of it and then I read about it.

872
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 2: My big takeaways were, let me get the things that

873
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 2: bothered me out of the way first. But this idea

874
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 2: that forty five years has passed and whatever drought stricken

875
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: problems Anthea had couldn't have gotten any better because David

876
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 2: Bowie or Thomas Newton failed. Right now, the character is coming.

877
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: Why did they wait forty five years? And then I thought, oh,

878
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: maybe time is different on Anthea, right because it raises

879
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 2: some practical issues. But I also found it interesting that

880
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 2: when he comes down to Earth again that the story

881
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: doesn't focus as much on all of the let's say,

882
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: all the distractions for his mission. He comes down not

883
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 2: trying to pull things over on humans so much. He

884
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 2: just comes down and gets about his work. I found

885
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: as big a Bowie fan as I was. I found

886
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 2: a Geophoor's performance captivating. He brought humanity to the part

887
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: of Faraday that I could relate to. I felt much

888
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 2: more engaged with his problem than I did with Newton's.

889
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 2: With Newton's I was going to detach, but I felt

890
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 2: sad for him. It felt tragic.

891
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: G four actually becomes, if you think about it, the

892
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs of his time, which is fascinating because it's

893
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: a reverberation off the film version of The Man Who

894
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: Felt Earth. Because Bowie becomes Elon Musk. That's right, true,

895
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: Bowie or Bezos. Because Bowie's company is going to send

896
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: this craft off and they're not hiding it. It's a

897
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: public thing, it's a big deal. And he gets kidnapped

898
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: by the government right at the time when he's going

899
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: to be the sole occupant of this craft going. And

900
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: by the way, it was never explained there again how

901
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: that craft was full of water or whether he's playing

902
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: to steal the water after it. They never got a

903
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: chance to do it. But the point is they're trying

904
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: to reverb off and they did successfully off some of

905
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 1: the things.

906
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: The writers made a very interesting choice and that I

907
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: don't remember when, but there's like a flash forward early

908
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 2: on that shows he succeeds. He's giving a speech about

909
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: this revolutionary technology that he's created, and then we kind

910
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 2: of go back and rewind and tell the whole story.

911
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: And I thought, wow, that's interesting because it's such a

912
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: stakes and complicated mission. I was surprised that they told us, oh,

913
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: here's where it's going, right right up front. So it

914
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 2: took away a lot of the mystery, I think is

915
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: what I really remember enjoying about the original film, and

916
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 2: so it stripped all that away and it made it

917
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 2: a little bit more conventional storytelling. I think the last

918
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: point I want to make about this, which again I

919
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: just find this ironic, is in nineteen seventy six, I

920
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 2: think the character of Thomas Dwton as it was portrayed

921
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: by David Bowie felt very authentic to the cultural zeitgeist

922
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 2: and how people might relate to aliens. Right. They were

923
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 2: probably seen by the higher ups and the government as

924
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 2: a threat. We need to abduct them, or we need

925
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 2: to capture them and experiment on them. But humans were

926
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: probably not. They were they didn't believe it was possible.

927
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 2: Why because they hadn't been saturated with too many movies

928
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: about an alien who comes to Earth. I think in

929
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 2: those forty five intervening years, the audience has had movies

930
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 2: like Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Alien Nation, The

931
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 2: X Files, Dark Skies, Men and Black. The list goes on.

932
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: So if you're trying to tell a modern day story

933
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: about the man who fell to Earth, he's falling to

934
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: a very different Earth, an Earth that has been conditioned

935
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: to accept that there could be aliens. A lot of

936
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: people in the world right now believe that, and a

937
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: lot of people believe they walk amongst us, and as

938
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: you said, they're kind of hiding in plain sight, building

939
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: spacecraft sending them up. All of these things are completely

940
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 2: acceptable today, and in nineteen seventy six, all of that

941
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: would have been felt like science fiction, and that movie,

942
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: in a weird way, did not. The original movie did

943
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 2: not feel like science fiction.

944
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: Very good point, and it is interesting because the people

945
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: that are after Newton in the film are kind of

946
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: cardboard in their own way. They're kind of ineffective, and honestly,

947
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: there are parallels to Disclosure Day Spielberg's things in this

948
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: ten part metelling, because there is a race on and

949
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: their plan is to tell the whole world about something

950
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: and the people that are trying to stop them are

951
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 1: private contractors largely and government, but it's a much more

952
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: credible threat. And I just want to tip my hat

953
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: to an unexpected actress. Kate mulgrew plays this character, Drew Finch,

954
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: who's in charge of stopping this, and she's very credible.

955
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: She's tough as nails. I've rarely seen anybody portrayed that

956
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: aggressively competent in maintaining the secret. I thought that was

957
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: really good. I also want to just throw this out there.

958
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: Bill Nye is every time he's on screen, he's magic

959
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: because not only is he magic, but the fact that

960
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: he's Thomas Newton is so incredible to sort of because

961
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 1: he does embody the spirit of Bowie and his performances,

962
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: and in that final episode, the tenth episode, his performance

963
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: is just beyond great. He's angry and he's pissed. The

964
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: Bowie version at the end of his film is resigned. Yes,

965
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: the Bill Nye version at the end of this thing

966
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: is just pissed. He has lost his family, he's lost everything,

967
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: and these people are doing it again and he ain't happy,

968
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: and he just spits the venom out and it's great.

969
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 1: I just thought, hey, listen, So we could probably talk

970
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: films and all that for a long time. But the

971
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: premise we were kind of going forward was to say, look,

972
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: here's this idea that begins in sixty three and it

973
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 1: becomes a book, a film, a pilot, a stage play,

974
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: and a series that's really a sequel, and this character

975
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: has had this extended life. What does it mean with

976
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: War of the Worlds. Really could say that War of

977
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: the World's really was this malleable thing that you just

978
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: basically it's like an alien invasion and they're invading. For

979
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 1: every invasion in More of the Worlds whenever it's been

980
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: made tells you about the times we live in. Do

981
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: you think that's the same with the Thomas Newton character.

982
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 2: I think War of the Worlds goes back to something

983
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: more primal, that we are not the apex predators on

984
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: this planet. If aliens invade, they will be in charge,

985
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 2: they will take over, and again that goes back to

986
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 2: the fear fantasy. And I think with the Thomas Newton story,

987
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: the stranded on Earth alien, I feel like the underlying

988
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 2: premise there that makes it so compelling is they walk

989
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: among us, and it goes back to something. John Harrington

990
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: said to me he'd seen aliens there here. I still

991
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what that means, but I think we

992
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 2: can use our imagination. They're here, Okay, what are they doing?

993
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: Are they my neighbors? Are they the people in charge?

994
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 2: Are they just here You're on a solo mission trying

995
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: to engineer something to take off the off world, in

996
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: which case they kind of just fit in. They're contributing

997
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 2: to the economy and hopefully they're paying taxes. But if

998
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,959
Speaker 2: they're here with a more nefarious agenda, and I think

999
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: even the if I remember correctly the most recent version

1000
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 2: of The Man Who Fell to Earth, part of the

1001
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: idea was that Newton in the original film had been

1002
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: a victim in some ways of Western culture, and that

1003
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 2: the new character of Faraday was going to embrace the

1004
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 2: idea of what if we turn humans into drones? What

1005
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 2: if we actually bring the adepts down and they will

1006
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 2: be in charge, and we'll make the humans our drones,

1007
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 2: and so we can all be adepts. And so that's

1008
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 2: a little more subversive, But I think it's interesting to

1009
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: see that's the evolution of the story. It went from

1010
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 2: an innocent a stranger in a strange land, being torn

1011
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: up and turned around and disillusioned by Western culture, to

1012
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: someone that comes down with a plan. They know how

1013
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: to get things done, and they have a completely different

1014
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 2: view of mankind.

1015
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right on. I found myself thinking one thing,

1016
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: because we got obsessed for a short period of time

1017
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: about War of the World's and let's face it, how

1018
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 1: does that end. Obviously, technologically, superior marauding invaders are defeated

1019
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: by what Amiba's disease that gets inside them, human disease

1020
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: that we can slough off as a cold would kill them.

1021
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: And I thought, what's the parallel for this particular sequence

1022
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: with the man who fell to Earth? And I think

1023
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: it's interesting if an advanced alien came here alone. Okay,

1024
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: War of the World's is the invasion, but if one

1025
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: of them came alone. And by the way, David Grush

1026
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: has certainly said there's bodies and biologics, and there's been

1027
00:56:56,120 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: ample whistleblowers who imply that there's more one. But let's

1028
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: say that this one happened. Somebody comes alone, and he

1029
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: tries to operate within capitalism and corporate power and the

1030
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: interest of the intelligence agencies and also addiction to drugs

1031
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: or alcohol, and media saturation. If an individual alien came

1032
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: and had to do that, would it be cute like

1033
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: et seeing something on TV that's funny, or would it

1034
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: not be cute. What happens in this version of events

1035
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: all through all of them is I guess the only

1036
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: way I would say it's grimly plausible. Okay, you could

1037
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: see that this alien isn't defeated by guns, ray guns

1038
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: or regular guns or anything. That's not what defeats him.

1039
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: He's defeated by Earth the way that Earth culture riblization

1040
00:57:54,240 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: takes him down. And that's metaphorically very rich. And that's

1041
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: one of the explanations for why is a drama. It's successful.

1042
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: But I think it's also probably true. The thing is,

1043
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: if you come in groups, you can survive potentially, but

1044
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: if you come as one, you don't have the upper hand.

1045
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: It may be that you have superior technology and all

1046
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: this stuff, which is certainly possible, But if you're just one,

1047
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: one individual creature from another planet, you got to walk

1048
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: among us.

1049
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 2: Yes, And the.

1050
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: Lesson of all of these versions is walking among humans

1051
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: is no picnic.

1052
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I feel like a lot

1053
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 2: of us wake up every day and feel like Thomas Newton.

1054
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: Even though we're humans, we feel like aliens in our

1055
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 2: own world.

1056
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: But listen, the takeaway for me that I love most

1057
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: is what you just said a few minutes ago, because

1058
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: it's very sound, light and frequency, which is forty five

1059
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: years have gone on. But what's the difference in the world,

1060
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: And the difference is the world the very thing we

1061
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: talk about on sound, light and frequency. There's been this

1062
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: possible slow drip disclosure that makes use of the media

1063
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 1: right going back to the Robertson panel of fifty three,

1064
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: but certainly picking up steam through our own experience in

1065
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: the late nineties into some of the things we're learning now. Clearly,

1066
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: people in the time where the Bowie movie was made,

1067
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: we loved a good alien invasion, but we didn't believe

1068
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: they were here. Now now we believe they could be

1069
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: here now. Yeah, and that's the difference, and that's why

1070
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: these films and TV series and plays and books all matter. Anyway,

1071
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: well done, I endorse what you just said. That was great,

1072
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: all right.

1073
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: I think that brings us to the end of the

1074
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 2: road here. It's been fun to go back and relive

1075
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: one of my bad dates probably my worst date in

1076
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 2: high school. I feel like now I can put that

1077
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Speaker 2: behind me and all that trauma is gone. Let's move on.

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Speaker 1: So we got some great stuff coming up in the

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Speaker 1: rest of the season here and very excited about all

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01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: of that. So folks keep on watching and watch the

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Speaker 1: Skies too, See you later. Sound Light and Frequency is

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Speaker 1: an iHeart podcast produced by Stellar Productions. It's executive produced

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Speaker 1: by Nick Johnson and for Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's

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Speaker 1: music was written by Anna Stumpf and Hamilton Lighthouser, and

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Speaker 1: your hosts and executive producers are Bryce Abel, That's Me

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Speaker 1: and Brent Friedman. Watch the Skies t