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Speaker 1: What's a problem. It could happen here the show where

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Speaker 1: I'm a problem. I'm on vacation legally. You're not on

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Speaker 1: vacation allegedly legally, But okay in Shelah, I'm drunk, Garrison,

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Speaker 1: you're in charge. Now figure it out? Great, Hi, what

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Speaker 1: it could happen here? Today? We are talking with somebody

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Speaker 1: if you've listened to the past two episodes, you should

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Speaker 1: actually know, uh, THEO, who is a journalist and researcher,

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Speaker 1: and we are going to be discussing plans for an

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Speaker 1: upcoming rally in Washington, d C. That's has a lot

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Speaker 1: of that seems good. Yeah, this is us. Never happened

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Speaker 1: when what happened last time? What happened last time? I

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Speaker 1: did this? I don't. I historically only pay attention to

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Speaker 1: things that happened after May and before December. So I'm

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Speaker 1: unaware of anything bad ever happening at DC. Well, something

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Speaker 1: bad stuff happened there last time. It got it got

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Speaker 1: a little spicy, Um, okay, spicy, But it's not like

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Speaker 1: they tried to overthrow the government murder elected leaders, right,

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Speaker 1: that is what they are actually having too much fun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're just boys. They were just proud of their boys,

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Speaker 1: a little carried away building, all of the building, that

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Speaker 1: big hanging contraption whatever it's called gallows gallows. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: we're talking THEO. Do you want to want to introduce yourself? Yeah, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm THEO idealist and a researcher. I'm based out of Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Allegedly i end up covering a lot of events in

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Speaker 1: DC because of that, and that's my plans for this weekend. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you want to it? Do you want to give

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Speaker 1: us like an overview of what rallies and d C

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Speaker 1: have been like the past, let's say, like the past year.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy do I yeah, let's just just for background. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: like pretty much immediately post election, as the whole kind

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Speaker 1: of stop the steel thing got kicked into gear. Um,

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Speaker 1: November fourteen, there was a rally in d C. UM,

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Speaker 1: and then there was one December twelve, and then there

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Speaker 1: is finally one as most people are probably aware, on

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Speaker 1: January six. January six, you know, obviously got the bulk

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Speaker 1: of the media coverage. UM. But November fourteenth and especially

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Speaker 1: December twelve were very violent situations in general. UM Proud Boys.

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Speaker 1: General Chudd's a bunch of oath keepers, bunch of people's

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Speaker 1: confused mems and pat ups showed up. Um would kind

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Speaker 1: of wander Yeah, yeah, pretty pretty fucked up. I know

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Speaker 1: some people who were there when they did, and it's

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's sad, like it's really bleak. I

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Speaker 1: was there with the people that you know, yeah, oh good, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you I mean that, It's just it's so fucking um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the extent of the disinformation, right, it's

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Speaker 1: hard when you're talking about this to like express a

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Speaker 1: lot of sympathy for some of these people. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not sympathetic towards their aims. I'm not trying to do

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Speaker 1: the New York Times like let's talk to the Trump

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Speaker 1: voter down the street, but like a lot of them

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Speaker 1: are just like they're fucking dumb people who bought into

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Speaker 1: some bullshit and it destroyed them and their relationships with

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Speaker 1: their families in some cases cost them their lives, and

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Speaker 1: like you don't have to sympathize with them to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's bleak as ship know. Yeah, And I think you

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Speaker 1: see that with the d c rallies really more so

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Speaker 1: than like uh Portlands Proud Boy event, for example, that

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Speaker 1: is not at all a gathering of like the masses.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a specific group of pieces of ship. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: And like you'd have absolutely like units of proud Boys

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Speaker 1: or oath keepers. We had three percenters some local Virginia militias,

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Speaker 1: and they'd kind of be wandering around. But during the

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Speaker 1: day itself, you'd normally see like speakers. Alex Jones was there. Um,

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Speaker 1: got to meet him. That was fun. Um, that's always

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Speaker 1: a meeting Alex. He's a great guy. It was really fun.

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Speaker 1: He's his neck. It's hard to exaggerate how how he

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Speaker 1: is just as read in person. He's so red. And

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Speaker 1: as a guy who's good at strangling, it seems like

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Speaker 1: he would be hard to strangle. Oh nearly impossible. Like

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Speaker 1: it's so big. It's such like it's like a fucking

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Speaker 1: train car. Like it's ridiculous how big that man's neck is. Look,

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Speaker 1: most people aren't hard to strangle. Alex Jones would be.

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Speaker 1: That's not praising him, that's just being honest. So during

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Speaker 1: the day there would be speakers, you know, Alex Jones,

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Speaker 1: and you kind of see people split up into whatever

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Speaker 1: they're specific brand of fucker. He is there's like groups

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Speaker 1: of nerdy looking gropers. Um, there were some trad cats

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Speaker 1: wearing robes. Those guys were fun, but yeah, a lot

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Speaker 1: of it's you know, confused, like boomers on Facebook, and

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Speaker 1: kind of to Robert's point, like I normally didn't go,

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Speaker 1: you know, wearing press credentials because I value knives being

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Speaker 1: outside of me and not inside of Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: good to not get stabbed. Most people appreciate that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite things. And so I'd get

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Speaker 1: to like talking to these people, especially the older ones,

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Speaker 1: because I take the Metro into the city and they

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Speaker 1: are they're just confused, old people who have gotten in

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Speaker 1: over their heads. But yeah, then like the sun would

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Speaker 1: set and that's when the Proud Boys would really start

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Speaker 1: getting into ship. November they stabbed. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I'm remembering this correctly, so feel free to fact check me,

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Speaker 1: but I believe it was two people on uh they

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Speaker 1: cracked a girl's skull. And then on December twelve they

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Speaker 1: stabbed one other person and Jeremy Bertino got blayed on

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Speaker 1: the street. He shared he shared in and the d

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Speaker 1: A elected not to prosecute because that was the clearest

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Speaker 1: case of self defense I have ever seen in my life. Um. Yeah, so, like,

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Speaker 1: like the dude literally tried to flee three times, he

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Speaker 1: drew his knife after by the third time he was

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Speaker 1: blinded by having a shirt puld and assaulted by a

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Speaker 1: group he had no other choice. Yeah. Yeah, he did

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Speaker 1: exactly what you're supposed to do in that situation and

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Speaker 1: repeatedly tried to flee and what he did and he

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Speaker 1: stabbed Ah motherfucker, And you can't, I I can't. He

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Speaker 1: did nothing wrong in my in my opinion, the d's opinion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're all probably better off for it. But yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: this kind of established Uh, there was this established sort

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Speaker 1: of cycle of show up a bunch of weird Republican

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Speaker 1: politicians that you've never heard of before, give speeches. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you go and kind of wander around, and then the

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Speaker 1: Proud Boys come out and they funk around. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes other groups too, like January the night before January six,

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Speaker 1: there were people from NSC one who were hanging out,

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Speaker 1: trying to cause trouble, getting in altercations all their normal

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Speaker 1: ship and so yeah, there's this kind of like general

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Speaker 1: mix of groups. January six shifted the paradigm on that

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Speaker 1: a lot. And I think that's the big thing for

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Speaker 1: this weekend is we don't really know it's gonna look like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: can you talk about kind of what has kind of

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Speaker 1: the event promotion looked like from the right, Like what

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Speaker 1: have they what messages have they been putting out to

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Speaker 1: promote this event with? So, yeah, a lot of like

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Speaker 1: the bigger groups have been fairly explicitly saying like don't

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Speaker 1: go officially. Unofficially is a bit of a different story

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Speaker 1: and fairness, it's worth noting that prior to UM the

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Speaker 1: United Rally and Charlottesville, the Proud Boys were saying don't go,

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Speaker 1: and an awful lot of their most violent members were

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Speaker 1: at Unite the Right in Charlottesville. You know, it's some

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Speaker 1: some of this is a plausible deniability game. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: like the official Proud Boys telegram channel was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is I mean in different words, but we're pretty

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Speaker 1: much like this is a honeypot, this is a trap,

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Speaker 1: this is an op don't go. UM. But also like

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Speaker 1: we've seen activity that really suggests otherwise. Yeah, Um, whether

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Speaker 1: it's like smaller, more local groups saying that they want

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Speaker 1: to go, or uh, streamers and journalists using the word

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Speaker 1: lightly to who have pretty close relationships with these groups,

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Speaker 1: hiring extra stringers for the weekend or looking like they're

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Speaker 1: preparing to report on something big. Yeah, the kind of

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Speaker 1: the I know, we've talked a little bit um online

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Speaker 1: with some of our colleagues, and there's definitely a mixed

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Speaker 1: a mixed a mixed opinion on how big the event

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Speaker 1: is going to be and who's all going to be

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Speaker 1: there and what kind of their goal is, which makes

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Speaker 1: kind of everything all the more tense because you know,

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Speaker 1: it's almost easier to when we know what it's going

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Speaker 1: to be, like we like we have a good grasp

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen, and this we're not really sure. Um

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Speaker 1: do you do you know, has there been any kind

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Speaker 1: of response from like local DC officials, like like law

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Speaker 1: enforcement or anything about what they're gonna do at this gathering?

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Speaker 1: So I did see Capital Police is planning to put

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Speaker 1: the fence back up. Um, probably a good idea, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which like will cover the capital. But there's also a

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Speaker 1: problem with the fence going up, which is the back

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Speaker 1: of the fence goes right up to the end of

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Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter plaza in d c which has

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Speaker 1: been used as kind of a rallying point for UH

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Speaker 1: anti fascist activists. And when that fence is up, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's a funnel. The so it goes like this

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Speaker 1: is an of visual medium. There's a street uh and

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Speaker 1: that's where Black Lives Matter plause is and there's only

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Speaker 1: two exits, and both those exits lead to hotels that

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Speaker 1: Proud Boys and Chud's love to stay in. So what happens,

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Speaker 1: almost without fail is people go and hang out in

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Speaker 1: the plaza. You know, Chud's come down the streets. Police

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Speaker 1: form a line and it's pretty much a pre made

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Speaker 1: all right. So that's like not good. It's good for

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Speaker 1: the capital, but it's not good for the people that

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Speaker 1: will be on the ground, Yeah, because they're also as

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Speaker 1: is most of these events. Um, there has been some

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Speaker 1: organizing locally and even you know UH anti fashions from

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Speaker 1: around kind of the country trying to like put out

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Speaker 1: advice and feelers and like what to do for the

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Speaker 1: specific gathering. UM, And I know there's been there's been

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Speaker 1: a decent amount of you know, there's there's always like

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Speaker 1: debate and conflict of around how much to show up,

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Speaker 1: where to show up. You know how proact people should be. Um,

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Speaker 1: but because this is the first big rally since j six,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot of people. I feel

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Speaker 1: it's much more important, and like the people that like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there's there's like there's like a heightened

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Speaker 1: sense around the specific thing. Um. Do you know, like

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Speaker 1: how many people are kind of roughly planning to show

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Speaker 1: up on like the anti fashion side. It's really hard

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Speaker 1: to tell, um d C anti fascist actions. I've seen,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple dozen people in block towards close

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Speaker 1: to a hundred. I would um, from what I've heard,

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Speaker 1: the kind of main counter demo that's happening is uh

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Speaker 1: definitely less radical and it's kind of trying to establish

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Speaker 1: sort of a community space thing. Uh So I would say,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, expect around fifty like people who are

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Speaker 1: there to throw hands, yeah, and a lot more people

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Speaker 1: who are just kind of there. I mean, it's it's this, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's this thing we saw. I was in d C

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Speaker 1: for Unite the Rite to you know, the second rally,

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Speaker 1: and it it didn't turn into much of a thing.

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Speaker 1: You know. I think because of the preparation, the expectation,

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Speaker 1: and I guess I'm interesting and if you think I'm

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Speaker 1: wrong on this, but my current expectation is that maybe

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Speaker 1: that might be the most likely outcome because because of

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Speaker 1: the degree of and the unexpected event already occurred and

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Speaker 1: was awful, I'm not expecting anyone will be given free leash.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I could definitely see that sort of

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Speaker 1: Unite the Right to scenario playing out, especially because it

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Speaker 1: is very similar, like there was this massive shocking event

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Speaker 1: that kind of yeah, yeah, and so then people will

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Speaker 1: I think the only big difference is like in the

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Speaker 1: aftermath of Unite the Right, you kind of saw at

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Speaker 1: times of misguided media focus, but still a media focus

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Speaker 1: on anti fascist activists as playing a unique role when

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Speaker 1: you didn't have that for January six, And I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's really one of my bigger worries is less

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Speaker 1: so kind of clashes between chud's and uh anti fascists,

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Speaker 1: which is still I mean, you know, that's always a

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Speaker 1: thing that may happen, but also like you have to

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Speaker 1: think these chuds that are coming when they look at

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Speaker 1: DC police, they see someone, they see the people who

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Speaker 1: killed Ashley Babbitt. When the DC police look at these chudd's,

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Speaker 1: they're the people who beat someone beat one of their

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Speaker 1: co workers to death. And you know, like there's Capital police,

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Speaker 1: not same as DC Metro police, but like in the

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Speaker 1: minds of both these groups, that doesn't really matter. And

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Speaker 1: I worry about the tension there. I like, I don't

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Speaker 1: care if they make each other. You know, if the

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Speaker 1: Proud Boys and cops mace each other, then that's a

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Speaker 1: great day for me. But if it escalates further, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing that more and more the past,

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Speaker 1: was it past two kind of major right wing rallies

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Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest have had shots fired. Yep, yep. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Every every recent PMW protest has involved gunfire. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: like the one the August one had, I guess, I

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Speaker 1: guess you could call it a legitimate change, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a casual gunfight. I mean, the the start of it

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Speaker 1: was not legitimate. The right winger who fired was not legitimate. Um,

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Speaker 1: But the two people on the left who responded, we're

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Speaker 1: doing so in self defense. Now, what happened a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks later, from the video that's come out, was

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Speaker 1: not self defense. It was a guy shooting at somebody

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Speaker 1: pursuing them from like fifty feet back. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was not legally what you would call self defense for

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Speaker 1: certain Yeah, and that kind of the precedent that that's set,

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Speaker 1: which I think it's happened a few enough times that

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Speaker 1: we can't really say that it's it's the norm or

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Speaker 1: anything like that, but it's still it's an escalation. It's

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Speaker 1: something absolutely is did Like if that, if that had

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Speaker 1: happened in when Unite the Right happened like that would

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Speaker 1: have been unprecedented. It's very frightening, you know, and it

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Speaker 1: it should be. It doesn't matter what you think about

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Speaker 1: the morality of shooting tiny you know or whatever. Exchanges

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Speaker 1: of fire becoming more common is a threat to everybody,

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Speaker 1: and it is something that should concern everybody. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it reminds me a lot of And this was kind

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Speaker 1: of the impetus of the first season of it could

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Speaker 1: happen here, but like the early days of something like

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Speaker 1: the Syrians of Award, where it went from protests to

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Speaker 1: exchanges of gunfire too. You know what it is. Now,

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Speaker 1: do you think DC specific gun laws um will make

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Speaker 1: gunfire in DC a little bit less likely? Do you think?

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Speaker 1: I do? Like still, like the police always have that

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Speaker 1: capacity if they feel Um, you know if if they

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Speaker 1: choose to, but more specific on like the right between people,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like no boogs are going to

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Speaker 1: show up or whatever. Um, what kind of talk do

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Speaker 1: you see around firearms? So yeah, kind of just from experience,

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Speaker 1: I think my worry with DC's gun laws is only

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Speaker 1: one side will be armed every time that Chud's come

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Speaker 1: to d C. I mean, they are obviously carry I mean,

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Speaker 1: every single one of them is print is printing. You

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Speaker 1: can tell that they have firearms on them. They don't

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Speaker 1: really try to hide it, and none of them have

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Speaker 1: ever I mean, I guess apart from Tario getting arrested

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Speaker 1: for illegal magazines, like, none of them have really faced

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Speaker 1: any consequences for that. And the general fear among people

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Speaker 1: on the left is well, even if I do come

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Speaker 1: and I carry for self defense, if I get arrested

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Speaker 1: for something unrelated, that will enhance whatever charges I get. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: it's sketchy and it's Um, I don't I'm not convinced

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Speaker 1: in the situation d C is in specifically that shoving

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Speaker 1: up with a fucking firearm is the right call. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not in this business to lecture people, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not convinced that's going to help. In the Pacific Northwest,

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Speaker 1: we've seen situations where people with weapons as on the

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Speaker 1: twenty two, defended themselves and others. And we've seen situations

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Speaker 1: in which people on the web with weapons on the

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Speaker 1: left escalated things. So it's not a it's never a

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Speaker 1: zero game, you know, it's not. It's not a simple issue.

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Speaker 1: Right again, is a neutral tool, you know. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I don't want to, like, I don't want it to

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Speaker 1: come off like I'm encouraging, you know, every person in

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Speaker 1: block to show up with a long gun like that,

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Speaker 1: because that would be a fucking disaster most likely. But

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Speaker 1: also like I I don't like the idea of, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at a line of Proud Boys or something and

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Speaker 1: knowing every single one of these people has a gun,

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Speaker 1: and I do not. That's an imbalance of force that

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Speaker 1: I don't like when thing, if things do escalate, No,

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Speaker 1: that that's completely reasonable in my opinion. But yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think the big thing is just there's so many unknowns. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've never really there's not much of a

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Speaker 1: historical precedent for group tries to overthrow the government shows

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Speaker 1: back up in d C months later or elements of

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Speaker 1: the same kind of ideology. Yeah, we just don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even like I think that Unite the Right

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Speaker 1: to example is similar, but also like markedly different enough

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Speaker 1: that I don't know if it's an all encompassing tool

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Speaker 1: for like this is what it's gonna look like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: is there any like specific players that you know is

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Speaker 1: going to show up or or have like said that

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Speaker 1: they're going to show up. So one that I kind

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Speaker 1: of worry about is um, Oh, I'm gonna get fucking

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Speaker 1: tweets for this, God damnit. Um. So there's a group

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Speaker 1: in Virginia that you may have heard of BLM seven

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Speaker 1: five seven. Yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: are based out of the Virginia Beach area, and they

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Speaker 1: are the biggest pain in the ass ever um they

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Speaker 1: work with. They claim to be a Black Lives Matter organization.

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Speaker 1: The local Black Lives Matter organizations have denounced them. They

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Speaker 1: work with Boogloo boys. They were very tight with Mike

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Speaker 1: Dunn before he uh snitched and dumped off the face

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Speaker 1: of the earth. Yea um. And then yeah, they come

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Speaker 1: and I don't like the idea of them coming to

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Speaker 1: a town that is not familiar with them because like

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Speaker 1: they come to Richmond, for example, and people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's been abun seven. We don't funk with them, but

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Speaker 1: they come, you know, they come to a town or

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Speaker 1: groups like this like uh n f a C there

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Speaker 1: not not fucking around. Coalition tried to come to d C.

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Speaker 1: And I these groups that are gonna be armed, are

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Speaker 1: gonna want to escalate and are gonna kind of try

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Speaker 1: to slide in to like a counter demo or stick

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Speaker 1: around like the more left leaning parts of the crowd,

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Speaker 1: and then could very quickly escalate things. So they're one

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Speaker 1: that I'm worried about. Some local Virginia Militia movement players

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Speaker 1: have been chatting about it. I haven't seen really that

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Speaker 1: much in the way of like definitive statements that they're

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Speaker 1: gonna go um and those guys don't really worry me.

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Speaker 1: There a bunch of nerds who like to play dress

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Speaker 1: up in the woods mostly, But yeah, it's again, it's

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Speaker 1: just like these kind of unknowns. Yeah, so just like

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Speaker 1: not knowing who's going to show up and what they're

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Speaker 1: gonna do and where theyre be and yeah, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: and this was a thing, definitely it reminds me a

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Speaker 1: lot of the First Stop to Steel rally, where we

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Speaker 1: had more concrete groups saying we're gonna be there. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot more chatter about it on social media, but

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Speaker 1: it was still kind of like I don't know, like

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Speaker 1: what range of the sort of right wing ideological spectrum

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Speaker 1: will be here, Like I know, you know Q and

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Speaker 1: on your que and on uncle will be there. But like,

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Speaker 1: for example, on November Uh, Jason Kessler was there, the

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Speaker 1: organizer of Unite the Right. I literally bumped into Jason Kessler,

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Speaker 1: like I was walking and my shoulder hit him and

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Speaker 1: I looked up and I was like, oh, sorry, dude,

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Speaker 1: and then I just kind of stopped and I was like, oh, ship,

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Speaker 1: I recognize you. Yeah, you're that famous piece of ship. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, So like it's kind of that same thing

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Speaker 1: where we don't we really just don't have that much

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Speaker 1: intel and it seems like, you know, people with access

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Speaker 1: to more streams of information than us, Like the FEDS

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Speaker 1: have been saying for I guess a couple of months now,

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Speaker 1: like we're monitoring this situation where like preparing to stop

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Speaker 1: another January six, which take it with a grain of salt,

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Speaker 1: it is the beds, but also like part of me,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the worry I get from this is

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Speaker 1: people that I know no more than I do reacting

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Speaker 1: to it like chud streamers hiring stringers, FEDS saying like

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Speaker 1: announcing months before that it's a situation that they're preparing for,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are very interested in what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen, and I think people are definitely preparing for

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Speaker 1: a lot of different different outcomes, and that makes any

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Speaker 1: kind of resistance to it hard because you don't know

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Speaker 1: if you're over if you're over preparing, under preparing. You

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Speaker 1: don't know if you'll have what you'll do. Your preparations

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Speaker 1: are too aggressive and not aggressive enough. Yeah, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the way trying to like, you know, feel it out

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Speaker 1: once you're there is more scary because once you're there

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Speaker 1: in person, a lot of communications breakdown between other you know,

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Speaker 1: other activists that that's what happened in like the last

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Speaker 1: big rally in Portland is people try to know change

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Speaker 1: up plans once they got to the spot, and it

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Speaker 1: kind of made everything a lot a lot more challenging

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Speaker 1: because it's hard to a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in block don't have their phone on them. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's hard to get ride. It's you know, any

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Speaker 1: kind of any kind of impromptu organizing at the site,

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Speaker 1: it's always gonna be way more challenged. They've been trying

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Speaker 1: to figure this stuff out at home, and yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: just kind of I don't know, it's it's I think

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Speaker 1: I think the United Right to background is useful for

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Speaker 1: like a big event after you know, a previous event

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Speaker 1: that had a lot of coverage and had a lot

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Speaker 1: of talk about it because it had, you know, a

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Speaker 1: disastrous outcome. And then I think looking at you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at November four in December, t um are also

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Speaker 1: they are also kind of valuable indicators. Has there been

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Speaker 1: any have you seen anything around the grappers, are like

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Speaker 1: any of the Fuentes crew showing up to this or

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Speaker 1: they are they trying to just are they Are they

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Speaker 1: trying to like keep good optics? I guess I as

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Speaker 1: far as I've seen, they're mostly trying to keep good

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Speaker 1: optics around us um they as they also kind of

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Speaker 1: fall into the category of like people I'm not super

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Speaker 1: worried about like some of them. Yeah, but in like

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Speaker 1: a street fight situation, in a street fight less so

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Speaker 1: I'm not worried about a groper. Yeah, the most violent

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Speaker 1: encounter I've ever had with a groper was one that

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Speaker 1: was probably five ft tall, following me around and calling

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Speaker 1: me a soy boy for thirty minutes. Yeah. What I'm

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Speaker 1: more concerned about is is Graper is kind of following

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Speaker 1: the insale terrorism tradition of you know, skinny of skinny

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Speaker 1: white guys getting access to weapons and than than doing

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Speaker 1: something with the gun is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah, like that're

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Speaker 1: not going to beat Yeah, here finished what you were saying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, you know, all all of the

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Speaker 1: Grapers I've seen, they're not going to beat me in

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Speaker 1: a fist fight because they're all even even more not

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Speaker 1: even more likest sh But yeah, and and that and that. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's kind of another thing that's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's always a possibility of these things. Like I always say,

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Speaker 1: like the worst possible outcome is someone someone starts shooting,

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Speaker 1: like a firefight is always the worst way this could go.

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Speaker 1: But with the sort of optics surrounding this, I I

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Speaker 1: think there's definitely space for more extreme people, uh specifically

425
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: more accelerationist minded people to try to start something to

426
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: try to cause some ship. I mean, like I said,

427
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: I'm in Virginia. I think of the Richmond gun rally

428
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: in the lobby day in what was that twenty nineteen

429
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 1: beginning of I Forget All Time is a flat circle

430
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: to me now, but um, the members of the base

431
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: that we're intercepted on their way to Richmond. Uh. I

432
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: think about that situation and how other people and other

433
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: groups that we will not talk about on pod could

434
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: see an opportunity here. Yeah, And I think that's I

435
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: think that's more likely happening in somewhere like DC than

436
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: it is in Portland's right, because in Portland we have

437
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: a pretty good grip on who shows up and why

438
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: they show up. The East coast, the south, um, northeast, Southeast,

439
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: they have a lot more groups with interest with you know,

440
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: obscurity ologies that are more thinking, more are prone to

441
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: those types of to those types of like um, more

442
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: insurgent attacks. And I think people are on the West coast. Yeah.

443
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: And I think another thing that kind of amplifies that is,

444
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: like you said, like Portland has kind of an established

445
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: infrastructure of chud fuckery, you know. I mean, I'm on

446
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: the other side of the country, and I know the

447
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: familiar faces of Portland's bullshit, and we we do have

448
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: that to an extent. But d C brings people from

449
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: all across the country. I was meeting people in the

450
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: metro from everywhere from Tennessee to Kansas to California. And

451
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: when people are coming in from such a broad range

452
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: of places, there's a lot more uncertainty. Yeah, well, I'm

453
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: not sure and anything else you want to mention about

454
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: kind of what you expect at this rally and any

455
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: I don't know general advice has since you've been at

456
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: the past three versions. Yeah, so, I mean, if you're

457
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: in the DC area or you're nearby and you're comfortable

458
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 1: with it and physically able to do so, I show up. Um.

459
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: The one thing that we do know for sure about

460
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: these events is that the more bodies we have, the

461
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: less likely it is for people to be able to

462
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: pray on someone walking home from work or houseless person

463
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 1: just trying to sleep. Yeah, the more bodies that we have,

464
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: the better it is. Um, if you are either unable

465
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: to come or you don't feel comfortable coming, I know

466
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: that there will be jail support, mutual aid efforts. UH

467
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: and Garrison I can send you to some links to

468
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: local d C orgs if you want to throw it

469
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: in the show notes, sure, um, but yeah, just and

470
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go, be prepared, have have a buddy,

471
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: uh lock up, bring uh bringing I fack, and get

472
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: ready to party. Yeah. I think that's one of the

473
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: things you mentioned, is like more numbers helps in the

474
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: case of it's less likely they'll be like roaming attacks,

475
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: because that's what we've seen at a lot of these

476
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: rallies is that sometimes they don't ever like actually cause

477
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: trouble at where people are, you know, like where the

478
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: where the people are. They wait until people are walking

479
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: away or going back to their car, or if there's

480
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: no one like that, they just find some random person

481
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: on the street. You know, we saw a lot of

482
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: that in d C of of Proud Boys just finding

483
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: kind of people in the area that they thought looked

484
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: like Antifa quote unquote and then just attacking them. Um.

485
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: So you know, the less scattered people are, um, the

486
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: less likely to get kind of those ruling attacks. Yeah.

487
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, it's it's always hard to speculate

488
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: on the event, on an event that hasn't happened yet,

489
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: but I believe by the time by the time they

490
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: see airs, it'll be happening tomorrow. So as Saturday THEO.

491
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: Do you want to plug anything? Yeah, you can find

492
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, um at THEO Hansen THEO with a zero. Uh.

493
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: Listen to my podcast Terrorism Bad. We look through portrayals

494
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: of terrorism and extremism in popular media. See how it

495
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: holds up to the real world. Um, trying to think

496
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: of anything else. I'll be there on Saturday. I'll be

497
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: live tweeting the event. I'm not live tweeting that dead

498
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: or otherwise incapacitated or I don't have cell service. Service

499
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: is always horrible at these things. Oh, it's awesome. Yeah,

500
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: it's a constant problem. Yeah. They were blocking signals on

501
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: January six on the cow at the lawn, and when

502
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: I stepped off, I had like thirteen texts from all

503
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: my friends that were like, hey, text me if you're

504
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: still alive. It's really hard to tell what's going on,

505
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, when you're when you're like whether or not

506
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: it's like a cell signal problem, or if it's somebody

507
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: like targeting you in particular, it's frustrating. Yeah, all right, well,

508
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: thank you Cel, thank you for giving us the rundown

509
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: on Saturday's activities. UM, I hope you don't get shot,

510
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: thank you. I hope I do not as well. That's

511
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: my general feeling towards anyone who shows up on uh,

512
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, on the eighth in d C. I hope

513
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: you don't get shot. Do your best. Yeah, and if

514
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: you do get shot, you know what to do about it? Well, yeah,

515
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: have a have a have a care a minute, you know,

516
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: have some cell locks. Yeah, that's ideal, But not getting

517
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: shot is better, so you cannot remember what Try not

518
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: to get shot, all right, Thanks for having me on guys.

519
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you, Robert and Sophie to meet you.

520
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: You can follow us that Happened Here pod on Twitter

521
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: and Instagram and at cool Zone Media for all the things.

522
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: And we'll be back Monday