Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hey everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to the I Choose Me Podcast. This podcast is
Speaker 1: all about the choices we make and where they lead us.
Speaker 1: My guest today is a musician, a rapper, and the
Speaker 1: lead singer of the band Future Islands that I am
Speaker 1: a big fan of and you might also know him
Speaker 1: from the Apple TV Plus show The Changeling, where he
Speaker 1: made his acting debut last year. Please welcome Samuel t
Speaker 1: Herring to the I Choose Me Podcast. We're gonna jump in,
Speaker 1: but I just want to say thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: for coming on, and thank you so much that you
Speaker 1: said yes.
Speaker 2: I think your team is the first person to find
Speaker 2: my secret email who.
Speaker 3: I was like, it does work, that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Well, they're good, so that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, I got a request, but it
Speaker 2: was excited. We were really excited to hear that you
Speaker 2: came to the show. That's just so cool.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give my husband credit because we both
Speaker 1: love music, but he has introduced me to some of
Speaker 1: the best bands around, and yours is right at the
Speaker 1: top of that list. We just got you guys in
Speaker 1: La at the Shrine and Dave had had seeing Future
Speaker 1: Islands on our calendar since like May, right, and the
Speaker 1: thing was, I've been traveling a lot for work. I
Speaker 1: got home, I was home for one day. I had
Speaker 1: a photo shoot all day long, and I thought, there's
Speaker 1: no way I'm going to be up to going to
Speaker 1: the show. And I didn't want to disappoint him because,
Speaker 1: like I said, he was really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: But we finished earlier that day and I literally like
Speaker 1: made myself get excited to go to the show because
Speaker 1: I was really excited, but I was also so so tired,
Speaker 1: no offense. So we went and something really good happened
Speaker 1: to me that night. Your music just reminded me to dance,
Speaker 1: you know, and I it just genuinely made me so happy.
Speaker 1: That carried on for days, that feeling of happiness that
Speaker 1: I got from seeing you play live. You guys are
Speaker 1: just incredible live.
Speaker 3: Well that's uh, yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad that.
Speaker 2: You know, the whole the whole point of the show
Speaker 2: is to kind of crack people a bit, you know,
Speaker 2: break open something that's not there. And I mean that's
Speaker 2: you know, the my movement is to make other people move.
Speaker 2: Of course, you know that it's a safe space. If
Speaker 2: I can do it, you can do it. That kind
Speaker 2: of thing, you know, it's a hook. But yeah, that's
Speaker 2: just it's a high compliment and it's the goal.
Speaker 1: We were like up in the back and everybody wanted
Speaker 1: to sit down and I was not having that and
Speaker 1: you were like, everybody, get up. And I'm so glad
Speaker 1: that you said that, because these old study dudies behind
Speaker 1: me wanted to like sit and watch you before. No, no,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 2: And you know that that happens sometimes, especially when you
Speaker 2: move into theaters and stuff. But man, when I go
Speaker 2: to a show, I want to sit down. I'm always
Speaker 2: looking for the green room.
Speaker 3: When I go to a sho I don't get to
Speaker 3: go back there.
Speaker 1: Through the Roses that has been one of our songs,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, just like through All the Ship. Yep.
Speaker 1: It's an upbeat mode to how hards like relationships can be.
Speaker 1: But for me, it just reminds me that we're stronger
Speaker 1: together somehow. And Little Dreamer is the song that I
Speaker 1: am absolutely obsessed with right now. What does it mean?
Speaker 1: I mean, I can interpret it and maybe maybe you're
Speaker 1: talking about your cat. I don't know, but here's what
Speaker 1: I hear when I when I listen to it, I
Speaker 1: hear you talking to yourself about to your little dreamer inside,
Speaker 1: and that something so comforting to me about it, like
Speaker 1: there's so much heartache, but it's hopeful somehow. And then
Speaker 1: there's the fucking birds. There's birds in that song, Like
Speaker 1: where did the birds come from?
Speaker 3: That's actually a good question.
Speaker 2: At some point or another I knew it was probably
Speaker 2: I'm going to say it was probably William of Field
Speaker 2: recording that he made, and I feel like it was
Speaker 2: from Windell. His hometown is a tiny little town outside
Speaker 2: of Rally in North Carolina. I can't I'm not actually
Speaker 2: sure though. You know, in our not our most recent record,
Speaker 2: with the one before that, we also the record opens
Speaker 2: the song Glatta, which is it's the Swedish word for happy,
Speaker 2: but it's also a bird. It's the kite, you know,
Speaker 2: with the big v tails, these beautiful birds that swoop
Speaker 2: over and it's like they're through England and southern Sweden.
Speaker 3: And the red kite.
Speaker 2: But that that also opens with these sounds of geese,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, it's something calming when you when
Speaker 2: you have we used to do we used to play
Speaker 2: a lot more with field recordings.
Speaker 3: It just reminds you of a place it puts.
Speaker 2: It creates a setting, you know, and sometimes I think
Speaker 2: about you know, of course.
Speaker 3: You saw the show, so there's a theater. There's a
Speaker 3: theatrical element to it. There's a theater to it.
Speaker 2: But you know, and when I usually when I write
Speaker 2: a song, the first line is always the hardest, and
Speaker 2: it's about you know that those first lines are about
Speaker 2: like creating the setting, just like you would a play
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 3: So I think when you have the ability to cheat
Speaker 3: and put birds.
Speaker 2: Sound in the sound of the sounds of uh, you
Speaker 2: know when through reads. There's an album we have on
Speaker 2: the Water which is has the clanking of like the
Speaker 2: sails you know, on ships at night. Yeah, And I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know what the average person hears when they
Speaker 2: hear that, but when I hear it, it takes me
Speaker 2: right back to that place.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's something that like forces my brain when
Speaker 1: I hear that to like stay really focused on what
Speaker 1: I'm listening to. I don't know what.
Speaker 2: It is, but dream is, especially that little tweet something
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: It's like we caught a really perfect moment from from
Speaker 3: a bird.
Speaker 1: Uh, huh, what is that?
Speaker 3: Was?
Speaker 1: I even close with my interpretation, it's.
Speaker 3: Not about my cat.
Speaker 2: Okay good, but no, I mean that well that song,
Speaker 2: you know, that song in a lot of ways to
Speaker 2: me feels like it is the It says a lot
Speaker 2: about the life of this band. You know, Future Allens
Speaker 2: was is eighteen and a half years old now, and
Speaker 2: we had a band before that. You know, we had
Speaker 2: me Wayim and Garrett the William the bassis, Scarrett the keyboardist.
Speaker 3: Of course we have Mike the drummer. Don't want to
Speaker 3: leave Mike out.
Speaker 2: But in the beginning, the three of us had a
Speaker 2: band called art Lord with a couple other friends. Art
Speaker 2: Lord and this Portraits and that was like our college band,
Speaker 2: performance art piece and music was the was the medium.
Speaker 2: And then you know when Future Islands began in six
Speaker 2: So we did that for two and a half years,
Speaker 2: didn't have a band for about six months, and then
Speaker 2: started Future Islands in six I was going through so
Speaker 2: much in my life at that time. I had I
Speaker 2: was addicted to drugs. I had a problem with cocaine
Speaker 2: for like two and a half years, so only like
Speaker 2: four four and I know this show is about being
Speaker 2: open and vulnerable, and you got the right guy.
Speaker 3: Because I tell it all.
Speaker 2: But it the the band kind of began when I
Speaker 2: was kind of losing my mind.
Speaker 3: I was at my bottom.
Speaker 2: But it took another four months and then I was
Speaker 2: able to leave town and get clean and through you know,
Speaker 2: through my parents' help. But then I left and I
Speaker 2: was living out of my van doing odd job construction
Speaker 2: around North Carolina, for North Carolina originally for a few months,
Speaker 2: and I started talking to this girl down in Florida,
Speaker 2: and eventually I just went down there. I was spending
Speaker 2: time with her, and then I was like, come back
Speaker 2: with me to North Carolina and we but I didn't
Speaker 2: have a place to go.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a house.
Speaker 2: I just slept on friends couches around North Carolina. So
Speaker 2: she did that with me for a few months, and
Speaker 2: then we settled in a place in Asheville.
Speaker 3: North Carolina.
Speaker 2: And so that song is about that room that we
Speaker 2: stayed in. You know, it was like eight roommates, one bathroom,
Speaker 2: an old punk house.
Speaker 3: It was like basically a squat house.
Speaker 2: Like we split, like we split one hundred and sixty
Speaker 2: bucks a month rent. She worked at a little clothing
Speaker 2: shop and I worked at Domino's Pizza delivering pizzas, and
Speaker 2: we just like made it work, you know, And so
Speaker 2: that song, you know, she was really at that whole time,
Speaker 2: I was really trying to I'd lost myself, you know,
Speaker 2: within my drug problems. I didn't fracture my relationships with
Speaker 2: my friends and my bandmates, but I just wasn't there.
Speaker 3: I was gone.
Speaker 2: And then so that song has traveled for seventeen years
Speaker 2: through my life, through her being there and then her
Speaker 2: being gone, you know, at the very beginning of us splitting,
Speaker 2: and then like the years of noncommunication and then like
Speaker 2: recommunicating and then being like, I don't want to sing
Speaker 2: this song anymore, like if it hurts her.
Speaker 3: Or if it hurts me, to really accepting.
Speaker 2: In the last few years, it's been about like that
Speaker 2: meaning has changed, but it's been about it like accepting
Speaker 2: your past and accepting love that isn't there anymore, because
Speaker 2: it was still love, you know, And that's really what
Speaker 2: it means to me now, Like I can't stop myself
Speaker 2: from the good memories, even if I'm in a new place,
Speaker 2: if I'm in another good relationship. There was still a time,
Speaker 2: you know, and all the bad stuff that followed doesn't
Speaker 2: take away that time and that sense of peace and
Speaker 2: calm that I felt in that moment, and how important
Speaker 2: that was to really the beginning of my next life,
Speaker 2: you know, because that the two thousand and the beginning
Speaker 2: of Future Islands was also the end of my old life.
Speaker 2: And and in writing that song in that first you
Speaker 2: know that was the first of Future Islands album was
Speaker 2: really kind of me discovering myself again. There's another song
Speaker 2: on that album, Wave Like Home, called Old Friend, which
Speaker 2: is literally about me looking in the mirror and like
Speaker 2: like recognizing myself again after so many years of being yeah,
Speaker 2: being lost of myself.
Speaker 3: So the old the old Friend is me, you know.
Speaker 2: Not not another person. I'm I'm I'm finding myself again.
Speaker 2: So really, yeah, that it's that song is very It
Speaker 2: has so much meaning, but it's so crazy that you
Speaker 2: can encapsulate that in those moments and then the original
Speaker 2: person or the original thought, the original feeling you're so
Speaker 2: far away from that, it can still take you there.
Speaker 2: It can transport you there, and then it can be
Speaker 2: something that people get their own feeling from because you
Speaker 2: want you want that too. I want people to whatever
Speaker 2: good you can get out of our music or our
Speaker 2: songs like and put it on your own life, Like
Speaker 2: that's so positive.
Speaker 3: It's art. You know, it's supposed to move with people
Speaker 3: and move through people.
Speaker 1: You said in your band Future Islands started just you
Speaker 1: and your buddies in two thousand and six. But I
Speaker 1: want to just rewind a little bit, and I want
Speaker 1: to sort of set the stage for our listeners. You're
Speaker 1: from North Carolina, as you mentioned. Tell me a little
Speaker 1: bit about your childhood. Do you remember the first time
Speaker 1: that you sang? And I wanted to know who was
Speaker 1: encouraging you to follow your dreams? Who was it that
Speaker 1: was standing behind you?
Speaker 2: You know, I grew up in a really I grew
Speaker 2: up in a small town eastern North Carolina. I was
Speaker 2: just like a two minute walk to the shore, the sound,
Speaker 2: you know, the water trap between us and the Barrier
Speaker 2: Island that was out of the ocean.
Speaker 3: I had my grandma right around the corner.
Speaker 2: It was It's a pretty a pretty simple, I would say,
Speaker 2: a pretty simple, normal childhood. But that didn't really stop
Speaker 2: me from feeling weird and out of place. But you know,
Speaker 2: my mom loved to sing, so she played piano. We
Speaker 2: would stand around her while she played the piano with
Speaker 2: sheet music and sing songs together me, my brother and her.
Speaker 3: I have an older brother. It's just the two of us.
Speaker 2: And so my brother really was he was more of
Speaker 2: the the big He was more of a ham, I
Speaker 2: would say, than me even and he's still like such
Speaker 2: an amazing singer, such an amazing performer and really kind
Speaker 2: of my first, yeah, my first like idea of what
Speaker 2: a person was because like I saw his band play
Speaker 2: when I was like twelve, you know, and I did.
Speaker 3: I would sing at a young age seven eight nine.
Speaker 2: Like in school for what do you call them, like
Speaker 2: assemblies and then some drama stuff. But and I always
Speaker 2: you know, it was like I had a really good
Speaker 2: voice back then. I had this little angelic like kid's voice,
Speaker 2: you know, some children just having yeah, no no cigarettes
Speaker 2: back but I was like I could sing, but that
Speaker 2: wasn't really something I was trying to do. And then
Speaker 2: it was music hit me with hip hop, and so
Speaker 2: when I was thirteen, I fell in love with rap music.
Speaker 2: And then I was like I want to know all
Speaker 2: about this, I want to know all about the history
Speaker 2: of this. So I just started studying like and my
Speaker 2: brother helped me, like gather stuff off the internet. You know,
Speaker 2: we would print up like this is like the Internet
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six and seven.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, they were silent, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Very slow.
Speaker 2: There's not you know, there's like it's just text. You know,
Speaker 2: every website is just text. And he would print up
Speaker 2: these books of like how to break dance and how
Speaker 2: to like graph right and the proper like spray tips
Speaker 2: you need to do graffiti, and and you know, learning
Speaker 2: about just the music and the history of like how
Speaker 2: it came to be.
Speaker 3: I was just fascinated.
Speaker 2: And a lot of it was that it was so
Speaker 2: foreign to me, and it also I liked that it
Speaker 2: was like I had secret knowledge, you know, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I want to write. And at the same time,
Speaker 2: I was discovering poetry Carl Sandberg and Theodore RecA at
Speaker 2: like twelve and thirteen, and I went through like my
Speaker 2: first like my first crush. And then that also that
Speaker 2: just made you know, the poetry run, that made the
Speaker 2: wraps run. I wanted to be a rapper, and that's
Speaker 2: what when I went to college, That's what was my goal.
Speaker 2: And then I met William and then we started a
Speaker 2: ban and that's kind of like that's like history.
Speaker 3: You know, that's just the way it goes.
Speaker 1: Just happened.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but I was, Yeah, there was always a
Speaker 2: safe space. Like my parents were very much. They both
Speaker 2: grew up in really hard working families and worked really
Speaker 2: hard and we're like the first to go to college
Speaker 2: and their families and because of that, they raised their
Speaker 2: sons to be artists, which they regretted later. And I
Speaker 2: also regret sometimes too, because like my work ethic is
Speaker 2: bad outside of my art.
Speaker 3: You know, I feel I work really hard at what
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you seem like a really hard worker to me.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's it's me being hard on myself. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know how many partners I've had to have
Speaker 2: told me that, like, you know, you're allowed to rest.
Speaker 2: I'm learning now. I'm learning now, But it is you know,
Speaker 2: I gained that workaholic nature from my parents, and I
Speaker 2: would say even more so my father, And I was
Speaker 2: angry at him as a kid that he worked so hard.
Speaker 2: And now I find myself as the same in a
Speaker 2: similar position where I can't be happy unless I'm created
Speaker 2: something and I'm a little away from that. Like I
Speaker 2: think I've grown a lot in the last couple of
Speaker 2: years because that's something that was said told to me
Speaker 2: and then I recognized it, and then I was like,
Speaker 2: I need to correct this, and I need to give
Speaker 2: myself some grace to really relax at times, you know,
Speaker 2: because I get off a.
Speaker 3: Tour and I'm beat.
Speaker 2: But my first thing is like I got off this
Speaker 2: tour and I just sat down and I started writing
Speaker 2: a song and it made me happy. You know, it
Speaker 2: made me happy because I can move from that the crowd,
Speaker 2: whether you know, the stage work and the work of
Speaker 2: being on the road is very different than the creative
Speaker 2: process of creating a song. That's when you get to
Speaker 2: like pull something new and find who you are in
Speaker 2: that moment as opposed to working through old emotions or
Speaker 2: doing a performance.
Speaker 3: You know, because there are.
Speaker 2: Moments on stage, like what you saw is there are
Speaker 2: moments of transcendence where I'm discovering new things and I'm
Speaker 2: connected with the audience. And then there are times where
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I'm going to do this high kick
Speaker 2: because it's going to look cool and it's for the audience,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's not that's the that's the once
Speaker 2: again hook people.
Speaker 3: So that then you can go back into those spaces.
Speaker 2: But there's the performance aspect, which is work, and then
Speaker 2: there's the and then if you're lucky, you are able
Speaker 2: to go into the body and find something new.
Speaker 1: You mentioned I think it was at your concert actually,
Speaker 1: that when you finish an album, it's this huge expression
Speaker 1: and a release of emotions around the things that you
Speaker 1: are going through working through in your real life at
Speaker 1: that time. And then once the album finally comes out,
Speaker 1: you know, when you start touring with that music, it
Speaker 1: might be kind you might be kind of past those
Speaker 1: emotions or that, you know, onto that next hurdle in
Speaker 1: your life, but you're having to relive it all over
Speaker 1: again night after night playing it. What's that like? I mean,
Speaker 1: does that do you feel like that holds you back?
Speaker 1: Or does it sort of propel you forward?
Speaker 3: Uh? I mean it probably does a bit of I
Speaker 3: want to say that.
Speaker 2: I want to say that performing the song helps to
Speaker 2: create some closures within the self. It doesn't create closure
Speaker 2: with a person, but it creates closure and acceptance with
Speaker 2: the self. It also a thing I found is it
Speaker 2: makes you you know, when you say something you don't
Speaker 2: want to say, especially if it's damning to yourself and
Speaker 2: you put it on record, you are saying, I'm living
Speaker 2: with this and I want everybody to know that I'm
Speaker 2: you know, I can't. I can't go and tell people
Speaker 2: that they need to be honest with their emotions in themselves.
Speaker 3: And then me hide myself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And so so I push into those moments so that
Speaker 2: when I get on stage and I sing it out
Speaker 2: to people, then I see how it bounces back and
Speaker 2: then and then I become accountable not just to myself
Speaker 2: but to all of these people, and then it just uh.
Speaker 2: I found that it helps me to to accept things
Speaker 2: and just find you know. It's also about creating a
Speaker 2: space of you know, I see the stage as power.
Speaker 3: You know, the microphone is power, and you have you
Speaker 3: can use it or lose it. I don't want that.
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have rhymed that.
Speaker 2: And so I think it is like, if you can
Speaker 2: be vulnerable from a point of from a place of power,
Speaker 2: then you can you can change.
Speaker 3: You can create change.
Speaker 2: Because if I can get up there and be and
Speaker 2: and cry for you and then smile it off and
Speaker 2: be like I'm okay, we're okay together, then you you
Speaker 2: can break into people's and what their expectation of what
Speaker 2: people are.
Speaker 3: Supposed to be, what people are supposed to do.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like you're talking about like it's
Speaker 1: sort of like a reciprocal release and connection with your
Speaker 1: audience that it's mutually beneficial for you and for the
Speaker 1: people listening or watching.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think I even answer your question. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm real tangential.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's okay, Yeah, that's okay. But you know, I
Speaker 1: was just because I think, like, you know, you wrote
Speaker 1: that song a while ago and you're still playing it
Speaker 1: live night after night, especially when you're touring. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: because I know you have to have grown and changed
Speaker 1: in the interim of you know, between writing it and
Speaker 1: performing it, Like there's a lot that happens to a person,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's so much like a different person
Speaker 1: at that point, but you have to go back to
Speaker 1: that those feelings and to that moment to get that
Speaker 1: condra up, that true emotion to deliver that. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it can be hard to like, you know,
Speaker 2: my my partner now, you know, I've been like is
Speaker 2: it okay? You know, because because it's and I've talked
Speaker 2: to you know, old partners about like, is it strange
Speaker 2: to have to hear these kinds of songs that are
Speaker 2: about past relationships. But you know, they also they come
Speaker 2: you know, they understand like it's just your art, because
Speaker 2: I am, like it's it's art in the end. At
Speaker 2: first it's really heavy emotion, and then the story is
Speaker 2: get encapsulated like it is it is something, And I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's good or bad, but it is
Speaker 2: like the singing of the songs and creating that acceptance,
Speaker 2: it also puts callouses on them, you know, it puts
Speaker 2: callouses on those emotions and those things, and it encapsulates
Speaker 2: them in those moments.
Speaker 3: And maybe in some ways that's negative because.
Speaker 2: It it changes the It can change the memory, you
Speaker 2: know if you if you just remember that this thing
Speaker 2: in this way. And that's why I think why it's
Speaker 2: important to be reflective and see how things move.
Speaker 1: I think you said in some interview that after one
Speaker 1: of your breakups you started therapy. Yeah, how were you
Speaker 1: when you started therapy?
Speaker 2: I would have been I was thirty seven. Yes, this
Speaker 2: was the end of the end of twenty one. And
Speaker 2: I mean to be fair, like I had been like
Speaker 2: that that relationship had been really had been really positive.
Speaker 2: In my life, and it, you know, it diminished through
Speaker 2: the pandemic in that space because my partner was overseas,
Speaker 2: my ex was overseas, and we just didn't we weren't
Speaker 2: able to get to one another for a really long
Speaker 2: time in it. And it never popped back like when
Speaker 2: the pandemic lifted.
Speaker 3: It was the feelings.
Speaker 2: Were gone and she or her feelings were gone and
Speaker 2: she let me go.
Speaker 3: And then you just have to deal with it.
Speaker 2: But because of that relationship and the positivity of it
Speaker 2: and the love that I felt through it and knew
Speaker 2: was real, it wasn't like does you know, was it
Speaker 2: not real? It wasn't one of those It was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you guys had a real thing. And then sometimes stuff
Speaker 2: just happens and there are things you can't control and
Speaker 2: people and people change, and you know, feelings, our feelings
Speaker 2: are fluid and you can't really you have to look
Speaker 2: after yourselves and be good to yourself and move forward
Speaker 2: as best you can. But it was in coming home,
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to find a therapist immediately
Speaker 2: before I break down, before I you know, relapse into
Speaker 2: drugs or drinking too heavily.
Speaker 3: I drink, but you know, just going down a bad
Speaker 3: path like like drugs, sex, just.
Speaker 2: Like binge, eating, you know, any of these things. And
Speaker 2: I was able to find somebody. But even in that time,
Speaker 2: I was very it was very home and I think
Speaker 2: it's because that even though I was hurting from losing
Speaker 2: the relationship, the relationship also it had a positive effect
Speaker 2: on me.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I feel like the first relationship where I really had
Speaker 2: a true mutual love in my life. So I was
Speaker 2: able to grow in that, you know, and I was older,
Speaker 2: of course, you know, was in my I was in
Speaker 2: my thirties already, right, I.
Speaker 3: Wasn't just some young punk, no.
Speaker 1: But it takes that pain sometimes to get to that growth,
Speaker 1: and there's no way of getting around it. You just
Speaker 1: got to go through it. I mean, doing the work.
Speaker 1: When you know, when we talk about going to therapy
Speaker 1: and talk about the work that we have to do,
Speaker 1: our personal inner work whatever, it's scary and keeps people
Speaker 1: from seeking therapy, I think, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are just as great afraid to
Speaker 1: do the work. I mean, if you were to say
Speaker 1: to someone listening right now who maybe hasn't tried therapy,
Speaker 1: like what would you would you encourage another person to
Speaker 1: do therapy.
Speaker 3: Oh definitely.
Speaker 2: I mean I think the world could use it, and
Speaker 2: even if just to I think, even if just to
Speaker 2: have I really think of it as a reflecting point.
Speaker 2: And you know, different therapists are different, uh, and in
Speaker 2: the ways that they they do what they do, and
Speaker 2: you can find people that specialize. Sometimes you just have
Speaker 2: a bad fit and that can be really off putting,
Speaker 2: you know. I Luckily I'm with the person that I
Speaker 2: started with and we have a really good rapport and
Speaker 2: really like the biggest thing that he does for me
Speaker 2: is just remind me of what I've said in the past.
Speaker 3: So I'll tell him, like, you know, I'll tell him
Speaker 3: this is what's going on and this is how I feel.
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, you said something completely different through
Speaker 2: three months ago, or you know, I think this is
Speaker 2: what I need. And it's like, well, you said this,
Speaker 2: are you are you feeling or have you changed your mind?
Speaker 3: Or you are you just feeling anxious? You know?
Speaker 2: Are you you know what's happening to make you feel
Speaker 2: this way?
Speaker 1: So he's like holding up mirror for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that for me, that's what therapy is is.
Speaker 2: It's been beneficial is really holding up a mirror to
Speaker 2: me so that I can sit in my feelings again,
Speaker 2: which is the thing that he's since the beginning. He's like,
Speaker 2: you have to figure out how to sit in your
Speaker 2: emotion instead of instead of reacting really irrationally or rashly
Speaker 2: is the word I was trying to use, like, you know,
Speaker 2: very quickly, hastily to just because I'm an emotional person
Speaker 2: and so I just like act and that can lead
Speaker 2: to Yeah, that can lead to fractures and relationships and
Speaker 2: friendships if you don't take a breath, you know, like like,
Speaker 2: don't write the email back today, write or write it
Speaker 2: and put it in the draft. I've done that a
Speaker 2: lot in the last few years, and that's been really
Speaker 2: good practice. And then I'm like, I'm glad I didn't
Speaker 2: say that, because.
Speaker 1: I am a kind of like you've been through it,
Speaker 1: Like you've talked a lot about, you know, your life experiences,
Speaker 1: not only through your music, but you know, in interviews
Speaker 1: and stuff, and you've talked about your drug addiction and
Speaker 1: about your challenges with mental health and how you've fought
Speaker 1: you know, your way from being a teen with suicidal
Speaker 1: ideations and you had you filled voids with substances and
Speaker 1: like you said, eating all the things, sex, eating, doing
Speaker 1: everything you could to stuff things down and not deal
Speaker 1: with them. But I know you've been some really dark places.
Speaker 1: But from what I gather through not just your music,
Speaker 1: but from the research that I've done on you, like
Speaker 1: a creeper, I feel like you're really very intelligent, like
Speaker 1: an emotionally intelligent man, which is that's what the work
Speaker 1: is about.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I thank you for saying that is something
Speaker 2: that I It's one of those weird things where I
Speaker 2: felt like that since I was a kid. So my
Speaker 2: father is a he's a divorce attorney, and my mother
Speaker 2: runs the office. So it's just the two of them,
Speaker 2: and they're so interesting because you know, they to this day,
Speaker 2: they still they wake up together, they go to work together,
Speaker 2: they work together, they come home together, and they're still
Speaker 2: just like pinching each other's asses, and they're just real cute.
Speaker 3: They're just cute, funny people.
Speaker 2: And so I come from this really loving relationship. But
Speaker 2: also I was in this in this office for so
Speaker 2: many years of my life. Up until probably was like
Speaker 2: fourteen or thirteen or fourteen, I'd probably stopped going to
Speaker 2: the office after school, and I would hear so much
Speaker 2: emotion coming.
Speaker 3: Through those walls. I would hear people crying, I would
Speaker 3: hear people yelling.
Speaker 2: I'd hear you know, I'd hear laughter, you know, and this,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't make out what was being said. It
Speaker 2: was just that who you know, like Charlie Brown, Charlie
Speaker 2: Brown mom voice over the phone. But but I could
Speaker 2: feel the emotion. And I don't know, Sorry, parents, But
Speaker 2: I don't think it was good for me, you know,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: It was actually.
Speaker 2: I think it was maybe an over exposure for both
Speaker 2: me and my brother.
Speaker 3: But I think it made me.
Speaker 2: Extremely empathetic from a young age and like like really
Speaker 2: trying to to understand people or to just try to
Speaker 2: I don't know, Just like I do give my dad credit.
Speaker 2: My dad's the kind of guy who would just like
Speaker 2: I would walk to him to the post office every
Speaker 2: day to drop off mail and pick up mail, and
Speaker 2: it's just a little like quarter mile walk, and every
Speaker 2: day he would he was just like the one time
Speaker 2: in the daytime I could hang out with my dad,
Speaker 2: so I would like always go on the walk, but
Speaker 2: it would end up just like him at the post
Speaker 2: office talking to some person for thirty minutes and then
Speaker 2: we would leave and every time I'd be like, who
Speaker 2: is that? And he's like, I have no idea, And
Speaker 2: I was like what is happening? Because I'm also like
Speaker 2: I want to hang out with my dad, but he's
Speaker 2: hanging out.
Speaker 3: With a stranger.
Speaker 2: But that thing also taught me about the way you
Speaker 2: treat everybody in giving everyone this like respect and like
Speaker 2: I said, you know, a small town vibe. And my
Speaker 2: dad really taught me how to how to you know,
Speaker 2: you talk to the judge the same way you talk
Speaker 2: to the janitor type thing.
Speaker 3: And he literally has said that to me.
Speaker 2: You know, there there are lessons in that in that
Speaker 2: office that I learned. It was also like learning to
Speaker 2: like take care of myself and play with myself, make
Speaker 2: my own games, you know, you know, playing in the woods,
Speaker 2: you know so much.
Speaker 3: So much of those the songs.
Speaker 2: Of futur Rounds are really about those places around that office.
Speaker 1: There's something though about that time, whether you were with
Speaker 1: your brother in the office or you were out exploring
Speaker 1: the woods or whatever. That solitude and that like presence,
Speaker 1: just being with yourself, but knowing that you're just this
Speaker 1: big and there's so much around you. You know that
Speaker 1: it really makes you think on a deeper level. I think,
Speaker 1: and really I can I can hear that in your lyrics.
Speaker 1: I can definitely feel that from the music that you
Speaker 1: guys make. And that's irreplaceable, Like you can't learn that,
Speaker 1: you can't. You know. That's that amazing exposure you had
Speaker 1: as a young person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting, you know so much of me
Speaker 2: and Garrett's friendship. You know, I have to the words
Speaker 2: don't have. The music is the bed that allows me
Speaker 2: to dream, you know what I mean. And so the
Speaker 2: guys are creating this music that isn't that is very emotional.
Speaker 2: It's not like I'm just implanting an emotion. It's like
Speaker 2: the things that some of the sounds that Garrett uses,
Speaker 2: the way where I'm like bows or like gets into
Speaker 2: these deep sounds like that remind me of the sea.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: They take me to a place that allows me to reflect,
Speaker 2: but takes me to a place to reflect. But me
Speaker 2: and Garrett, you know, I know that we were really
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the reason that we became
Speaker 2: friends was because we both didn't feel that the world
Speaker 2: made sense and we felt like kind of isolated and
Speaker 2: then we kind of found each other. But we also
Speaker 2: both have that the darkness of spirit which we are fighting.
Speaker 2: And Garrett's done a better job in his life and
Speaker 2: he's you know, he has a beautiful family and and it.
Speaker 3: Just makes me so so happy.
Speaker 2: But I we still talk about it, you know, and
Speaker 2: understanding like where our friendship came from, and that those
Speaker 2: things don't go away. You know, we deal, We learn
Speaker 2: to deal and understand our emotions and those feelings. And
Speaker 2: then when finding a friend or even communicating with a
Speaker 2: stranger sometimes then we're we break out of isolation.
Speaker 3: To have that place.
Speaker 2: But for me, when Garrett in particular writes a sad
Speaker 2: song or I shouldn't say a sad song, but a
Speaker 2: song that is imbued with a deep emotion, I understand
Speaker 2: it in a different way. You know, there's so much
Speaker 2: to be said for the friendship of the three of
Speaker 2: us and now the four of us that really that
Speaker 2: is the spirit of the music.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about life on the road for a second. Yeah,
Speaker 1: does it suck as bad as I imagine it to suck?
Speaker 1: Because for me, like when I go away to work,
Speaker 1: I can really easily lose my grasp with where I've
Speaker 1: come from or the life that I've just left for
Speaker 1: those weeks months, whatever it is. How do you stay
Speaker 1: grounded when you're on the road and what do you
Speaker 1: do to take care of yourself?
Speaker 2: I mean it's yeah, the road is not for everyone,
Speaker 2: and it gets less a healing the.
Speaker 3: Older you get.
Speaker 2: The road was great when I was twenty six, you know,
Speaker 2: and I was free and I didn't have to call
Speaker 2: home or you know, call someone at home, and I
Speaker 2: didn't have to miss somebody.
Speaker 3: When you're missing somebody, it makes it hard.
Speaker 2: And if you have somebody who doesn't understand, it makes
Speaker 2: it harder.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: My partner now is in the entertainment industry, and so
Speaker 2: they give me a lot of grace and they understand
Speaker 2: because they also have to go and.
Speaker 3: Do work that but they are also a person.
Speaker 2: At the beginning of our relationship was like, I feel
Speaker 2: you disassociating from me, and I need you to communicate more.
Speaker 2: And luckily, well I'm proud of myself. But within that
Speaker 2: time of hearing that and then like fighting against it
Speaker 2: a bit and to then recognizing and then working through
Speaker 2: it and then going on tour again to prove myself
Speaker 2: because you can't prove yourself. Say, at the end of
Speaker 2: a tour, you're like, well, now I can't prove that
Speaker 2: I'm not disassociating.
Speaker 3: Or is over.
Speaker 2: So then you you come home, you reset, and you're like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to do better, and then you know, since
Speaker 2: then you know, and she's said to me many times,
Speaker 2: you know, I see that you've changed that behavior and
Speaker 2: that work, and you've made me feel secure.
Speaker 3: You know, you make me feel secure now.
Speaker 2: And it's really just I think in those things, I
Speaker 2: mean I would rather have, I shouldn't say.
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say I would rather have. It's hard to say.
Speaker 2: What I was going to say was I like having
Speaker 2: someone to talk to and I don't want to be
Speaker 2: you know, being on the being on the road single
Speaker 2: is easy because you don't have to call home, but
Speaker 2: it's also really lonely, and you know, maybe maybe you do.
Speaker 2: You know in the old days, you might get some
Speaker 2: kisses one night, but you just feel like you just
Speaker 2: leave again, You just.
Speaker 3: Leave your whole life.
Speaker 2: Your whole life is gone, you know at times, and
Speaker 2: it's really easy to get lost.
Speaker 3: So I feel so.
Speaker 2: Much more comforted and comfortable when I have someone to
Speaker 2: talk to about what I'm doing, or I get a
Speaker 2: reflection of, or I get you know, to find out
Speaker 2: what's happening at home. It makes me feel like I'm
Speaker 2: not completely gone from home. So, you know, it helps
Speaker 2: to have a partner who understands and is willing to
Speaker 2: work through those issues with you, which I'm lucky to have.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, you have to find routines. That's
Speaker 2: what's helped me recently. You know, my routine is basically,
Speaker 2: wake up at ten am. You know, take a shower,
Speaker 2: shave if I got to take a walk, a coffee walk,
Speaker 2: and then back to venue, reconvene, set up, do the
Speaker 2: sound check, and then you have and then I'll nap.
Speaker 2: I'll have dinner and then I'll nap from like five
Speaker 2: to six. Wake up, get dressed, start stretching.
Speaker 3: Do the sketching.
Speaker 1: I like this.
Speaker 2: You gotta strutch my my body is. I'm doing good now,
Speaker 2: but I have a lot of body pains from what
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you saw. Yeah, I had to go take
Speaker 1: a nap after I watched.
Speaker 3: You do it stretching.
Speaker 2: Do the show, come off stage, you know, have a
Speaker 2: couple of drinks, have some laughs, and then go to
Speaker 2: sleep sometime around like one or two on the bus
Speaker 2: and then repeat. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean just staying in a relationship under those kind
Speaker 1: of circumstances, while you're having your personal growth and your
Speaker 1: partners having their personal growth, it can be extraordinarily difficult
Speaker 1: to stay connected. I understand what you're saying about that
Speaker 1: it feels better to do that with somebody that's on
Speaker 1: the same page as you, because you're both committed to
Speaker 1: taking care of one another even though you're apart.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you understand the distance, like understanding the distance,
Speaker 2: understanding the work.
Speaker 3: Those things really help.
Speaker 1: Last year, I think it was last year I started
Speaker 1: watching The Changeling because I wanted to check out your
Speaker 1: big acting debut just recently. Yeah, no, you did. This
Speaker 1: last year was for Apple TV, right the Change, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, I just started. I'm on episode two. I
Speaker 1: haven't gotten to your character got me yet. But how
Speaker 1: did that opportunity come? I mean, that's like the ultimate
Speaker 1: I choose me moment. Just decide to do something completely
Speaker 1: different and scary and jump into a completely different world
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Well, it came about because of it came about because of.
Speaker 3: A future Island show. And I mean I'll tell the
Speaker 3: whole story.
Speaker 2: So the writer of the show came to see us
Speaker 2: at the end of twenty twenty one. She had written
Speaker 2: the show. It was sold, but they were just they
Speaker 2: were on the back half of casting the main roles.
Speaker 2: So they had most of the main roles, but there
Speaker 2: was one role, my role, it was not yet cast.
Speaker 2: Kelly came out of the show. Kelly Marcel was the
Speaker 2: writer of the show and also the showrunner, and then
Speaker 2: she you know, we're playing and she he's just like
Speaker 2: mesmerized at the show. Like about halfway through the show,
Speaker 2: I start, you know, like ripping in my face and
Speaker 2: going into these growls more.
Speaker 3: And she turns to her friend and is like, is
Speaker 3: he the guy? Is he? Like? Could he play William Wheeler?
Speaker 2: And her friend, who I think I think she had
Speaker 2: read the book but had to read the scripts, was like.
Speaker 3: I think I think he could. I think he could
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, the show was back at the beginning of October,
Speaker 2: and now we're to February. I get a message request
Speaker 2: on on Instagram from Kelly and she's like, Hi, I'm Kelly.
Speaker 2: I've you know, these are my things that I've done
Speaker 2: in the past. This is who I am, and I'm
Speaker 2: writing the show and I've been trying to contact you
Speaker 2: through your manager and I'm not hearing anything.
Speaker 3: Are you interested in acting?
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, oh, this still it's real. So
Speaker 2: we talked through Instagram. I kept repeating like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not an actor, right, and She's like, I think
Speaker 2: you can do it.
Speaker 3: Then on a Thursday, we had our first zoom.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think maybe I can do it,
Speaker 2: you know, and and she was like you She she
Speaker 2: was really on my side. She was like, I really
Speaker 2: want you in this, and I think if we if
Speaker 2: we can make good tapes, I can make a good
Speaker 2: I can make I can pitch it and we can
Speaker 2: do it. Once Kelly had once she had the director
Speaker 2: and the casting director. Then they they went to the studio.
Speaker 2: But but I had to I had to make my own.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I had to go in and read with the casting director,
Speaker 2: who was really great. But I've I'm not nervous, Like
Speaker 2: I'm not a nervous person, but that I was so
Speaker 2: nervous that first reading I was.
Speaker 3: It was I was like, this is not good.
Speaker 1: You've never this is something you've never done before. Of
Speaker 1: course you were.
Speaker 3: Nervous, yeah, but it was it was raw, it was
Speaker 3: in there, but it was wrong. So I read for them.
Speaker 3: They were like, we're gonna get behind this.
Speaker 2: They they pitched me, but they were like, you got
Speaker 2: to come back in a week and do it again
Speaker 2: on camera and there. But they were also like, but
Speaker 2: you need to you also need to meet with an
Speaker 2: acting coach, Like we see you have the raw, but
Speaker 2: you should meet with somebody. So they set Kelly set
Speaker 2: me up with this guy, Larry Moss. Do you know
Speaker 2: Larry Moss?
Speaker 3: I love that guy. Yeah, I still uncle Larry. Yeah.
Speaker 3: We had like we did six six sessions.
Speaker 2: They're just like one hour sessions over zoom, and it
Speaker 2: completely changed my whole It just changed everything in my body,
Speaker 2: Like he released all my fear and stress in dealing
Speaker 2: with like this thing, and it was really simple. Like
Speaker 2: I to this day, I still want to talk to
Speaker 2: him again and be like, did you mean what you
Speaker 2: said or you just did you just like blow the
Speaker 2: perfect amount of smoke up my ass to like, but
Speaker 2: they went to my.
Speaker 3: Head because the first thing he said to me was like, look.
Speaker 2: I've you know, the first session, first thing, just like
Speaker 2: I've been watching videos of performances, and I've watched a
Speaker 2: ton of interviews of your and you're an actor, You're
Speaker 2: just like, don't you don't trust that you are? So
Speaker 2: we just have to get you to trust what you're doing.
Speaker 2: If your head itches, scratch it, you know, if there's.
Speaker 1: Something, But do you have the bug?
Speaker 2: Now? I would like to act again, but but I
Speaker 2: never That's why I told you, like you guys were
Speaker 2: the first ones to find my secret email that I had,
Speaker 2: so like the show came out, I got really great
Speaker 2: reviews for my performance from some big publications and then
Speaker 2: but nothing ever happened.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, no, no, I think every
Speaker 1: you know, everything happens for a reason. Everything, no matter
Speaker 1: how awful it feels in the moment, it all leads
Speaker 1: to the next opportunity. Even if it's scary, if it
Speaker 1: doesn't look like an opportunity, or if you don't think
Speaker 1: it's going to go anywhere, it all eventually works itself
Speaker 1: out in your best interest. And that's the beautiful thing
Speaker 1: about life. And I love that you found a new
Speaker 1: passion for another art form and you know, you sound
Speaker 1: like you feel like you're good at it, and I
Speaker 1: can't wait to watch it so.
Speaker 3: Get you back.
Speaker 1: No, I mean I'm really excited for you. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, the sky's the limit for what you can
Speaker 1: do and where you can push yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a really cool It was something I needed
Speaker 2: in that moment to ye to a new challenge and
Speaker 2: something to make me feel to feel positive about myself.
Speaker 3: But just to learn something new. It was really it
Speaker 3: was really cool. It was also really trying. It's a
Speaker 3: hard job.
Speaker 2: I mean, I give you props because there's actually there's
Speaker 2: similarities in the job, which is the it's the hurry.
Speaker 3: Up and way.
Speaker 2: But but my you know, it was it was pretty chill.
Speaker 2: But in the beginning it was really frustrating. I had
Speaker 2: to find I had to find peace in it, and
Speaker 2: I drove Kelly crazy sometimes with that too.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you know. I'm glad that it
Speaker 1: worked out for you, and I'm excited for your future
Speaker 1: whatever happens with it. Before I let you go, I
Speaker 1: want I ask everybody this, Damnuel Herring, what was your
Speaker 1: last I choose me moment?
Speaker 2: I ate an extra large pepperoni pizza about three days ago.
Speaker 2: I eat the whole thing, probably in about ten minutes
Speaker 2: was really good.
Speaker 1: Well, extra large in ten minutes, Okay, I can do it.
Speaker 1: How'd you feel?
Speaker 2: I felt the I felt the warm rush of blood
Speaker 2: through my course and through my body.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I mean, you know, people usually
Speaker 1: give me like answers that are a little different than that,
Speaker 1: but I say, I really like this choice, the large
Speaker 1: extra extra large pizza.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's okay, you don't have to you don't
Speaker 2: have to diet today, you don't have to exercise, you
Speaker 2: get to relax. Yep, because I don't get to eat
Speaker 2: pizza on the road because it destroys my voice. It
Speaker 2: comes me up and gives me reflex, it burns my throat,
Speaker 2: so like when I get home, it's kind of a thing.
Speaker 2: And I waited and I was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: maybe not this time. Maybe maybe I'm going to have
Speaker 2: better habits when I go home. And then a couple
Speaker 2: of days went by and I was like, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: get that pizza.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: It's all in moderation, and you know what, if it
Speaker 1: feels good, do it. But it's all moderation. But I
Speaker 1: love that. It sounds like you are more in touch
Speaker 1: with like how to take care of yourself and just
Speaker 1: you know, in those those dark times, you get stronger
Speaker 1: and stronger how to take care of you, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think I'm just happy to see you on
Speaker 1: that journey and on that right path because you're so
Speaker 1: so talented.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'm so excited about writing again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, waiting, we'll be listening. Yeah, everybody, you've got to
Speaker 1: check out Future Islands. Take it from me.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jinny, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Samuel is so interesting. I have been such a huge
Speaker 1: fan of his music, so that was so great to
Speaker 1: get to know him on a more personal level. And
Speaker 1: I hope if you didn't know about his band Future
Speaker 1: Islands before this, you will go check them out now.
Speaker 1: The music is transformational as we continue to choose ourselves
Speaker 1: each week, I want to challenge you this week to
Speaker 1: consider something. Should you be getting expert help or guidance.
Speaker 1: We talked about this with Samuel his choice to get
Speaker 1: into therapy in the world of difference that it has
Speaker 1: made for him, and therapy isn't just for people that
Speaker 1: have experienced major trauma. Maybe you're struggling with your work
Speaker 1: life balance, or maybe you want to learn to set
Speaker 1: better boundaries I don't know. Give it some thought this week,
Speaker 1: and I just want to encourage you to think about it,
Speaker 1: to seek expert help. If you are feeling unsettled in
Speaker 1: any area of your life. This is your gentle reminder
Speaker 1: to choose you. Thanks for listening to I Choose Me,
Speaker 1: and check out all our social links in our show notes,
Speaker 1: rate and review, and give us some messages of love.
Speaker 1: Use the hashtag I Choose Me. I will be here
Speaker 1: next week. I hope you choose to be here too,